Why Retro Consoles Need A Scaler

from the dawn of the flat panel TV era TV manufacturers have ignored Gamers while it's cutting better recently with vrr and HDMI based consoles flat panels have never directly supported consoles that only output analog video signals sure some flat panel TVs have analog inputs and some older TVs even have a lot of analog inputs but they were never designed to be used with video games this video will show why that's a fact Plus show some good work around at all price [Music] points before we begin just a quick few things first you could skip all of this by just getting any old CRT it's an excellent experience and you don't need to worry about any of the stuff we talk about in this video you you can still find them for free just about everywhere just check your local dumps electronic section look for bulk pickup times in your neighborhood search online marketplaces for free TV or just ask around people complain all the time that there's no CRTs in their area but they're probably just not looking in the right place if you're on a budget just be patient and you'll find one next this video is meant to be a general overview and not a technical Deep dive like so many other videos on this channel if you see something you're interested in I have probably already did a very in-depth video or even multiple videos on it so definitely just use this as a guide to point you in the right direction so let's get started the first thing to talk about is latency or lag which in the context of this video is the time it takes from when your console has sent the signal to when your display starts drawing that signal standard definition CRTs were all zero latency as soon as it received the signal it started drawing new newer flat panels generally have low latency through the HDMI ports when in game mode at least but for some reason almost every one I've ever tested has more lag on the analog inputs than the HDMI to prove that here's a lag testing device that sends a signal down its HDMI port then the sensor on the back is held up to the TV and that measures how long it takes from when the signal is sent to when it's drawn on screen as you can see this TV is showing about 4 milliseconds of lag into the HDMI port not as good as the zero milliseconds you'd see from a CRT but still excellent but when connected through an analog Video Port it's showing over a frame more latency 22 milliseconds and as you could see yes the TV was in game mode for both tests and running the same resolution that's a ton of added lag simply by sending the same signal through the analog video ports oh and if you're wondering if any of the equipment I'm using to convert the signal is adding the lag please check out the entire video I did on this subject you don't have to just trust my word I always show my work and demonstrate how you could test yourself as well lag isn't the only problem the resolution these classic consoles output is most always not processed correctly when connected directly to TVs see most consoles released before the 2000s outputed a progressive scan resolution called 24p it's the same frequency as TV signals 15 khz but broadcast TV signal were all 480 interlaced lines Chris from displaced Gamers did an excellent video showing the technical differences between the two but for the purpose of this video all you need to know is even though they're both 15 khz they're different here's why that matters this is a Super Nintendo connected via composite video directly to a flat panel TV there's a bunch of smoothing and flicker during movement that looks pretty bad so I'll switch over to direct captures now to better demonstrate what's happening here's that same composite video signal from the same console connected to a scaler designed for video games see how the cursor flickers creating a transparency effect this is one of the many tests you could run that proves the image is being processed correctly now here's that same composite signal plugged into a scaler that uses the same scaling chips found in almost all flat panel TVs see how it stops flickering during movement that proves that the TV is trying to deinterlace a progressive scan signal so you can't actually see any of the transparency effects so what does that mean for actual gameplay here's a scrolling screen using the Sonic 1 background on the left note how the properly sent signal stay sharp while the signal connected through the TV scaler blurs with motion exactly like the example I started with that's the first issue but let's slow down the footage see how Jumpy the directly connected signal looks imagine staring at that while gaming for long Peri periods of time it's my strong opinion that the smoothing combined with that flicker really ruins the look and feel of these older games resolution isn't a problem with consoles like the PlayStation 2 as it mostly outputs 480i but check this out even in game mode sending an interlace signal to a flat panel results in a lot more lag including with the HDMI inputs so even though in this case you're actually sending the TV the exact signal it's expecting almost every single TV out there will add a ton more latency to interlace signals and depending on the game that could absolutely destroy the gaming experience and this is consistent on almost every single display out there I have another video mythbusting display lag if you'd like more details so I imagine many of you are watching this thinking that can't be right how could every TV manufacturer since the dawn of the flat panel error make this mistake there's got to be something missing but unfortunately it's the truth there's no technical reason why 240p has to be processed wrong and there's zero technical reason for analog inputs having more latency than the HDMI inputs the only logical explanation is the TV manufacturers and more importantly the companies who make the chips that go into these TVs just completely glossed over video games and never even considered them instead making chips that were focused on analog video devices like VHS players and older DVD players now I completely understand why TV manufacturers today don't really put much thought into analog video inputs cuz HDMI has been mainstream for 20 years now but imagine your Sony in the late 2000s and you have an installed user base of 150 million PlayStation 2s but barely any of your TVs could process that signal correctly kind of seems like a huge mistake right so you might be thinking fine I'll just jump on Amazon and buy a cheap HDMI adapter for my classic consoles unfortunately almost every single cheap solution is a scam see these companies use the exact same chips that are built into your TV which results in the exact same issues here even this designed for Super Nintendo cable results in 70 milliseconds of latency that makes most games nearly unplayable when combined with the average TV's display lag and motion blur and I've heard a lot of people tell me well my favorite type of game is only a turn-by-turn roleplaying game where latency doesn't matter at all right correct however unless the game is outputting 480i and please remember most do not you're still getting the improper handling of resolution so once again even this designed for retro HDMI cable doesn't actually handle retro gaming signals properly they try to deinterlace a progressive 240 signal and add all of that weird flicker in smoothing now many people get upset when they hear me call them scam cables and think I'm being a little too harsh but think about it the manufacturers who make these know for sure that they're not designed for video games but Market them as that anyway and in fact if this were in a different industry and not an entertainment device these could very easily all be pulled from the shelves and recalled because they don't do exactly what they're supposed to do scale your video game signals in a way where you should be able to play video games on them there's some other solutions to stay away from as well but it's important to note they're not scams devices like these were specifically designed to connect VHS and DVD players to TVs that didn't have analog inputs these use similar chips to the ones you'd find in TVs and they do a great job when used as intended to continue on my absolute Rude bluntness the reason people think that these are okay to use with video games is because some YouTubers have just plugged their consoles in plugged them into a TV and made a video saying hey look it works without ever actually testing them and that's the number one reason why I go into so much detail showing you how I test these things so that you know for sure how they perform and you could always test yourself if you don't believe me or you just want to double check to be sure to try and clear up the confusion I actually did an entire video on one of the most notorious one of these scalers and I actually found quite a few good uses for them G was not one of them though as a note the GameCube Dreamcast Xbox and Wii all support 480p output so just using cheap HDMI adapters with them is a great solution on a budget I'll have links to ones that I suggest but once again please stay away from clones and knockoffs as they will perform differently while quality plug-and andplay adapters could actually be a great experience including for some of the older consoles if you're using something like a rad 2x I think in many cases the best way to do it would be to use scalers and that's what we're going to talk about next luckily members of the Retro Gaming Community have come up with some great solutions for analog consoles covering all price points these should make basically every TV or monitor with an HDMI input compatible with classic consoles with nearly no lag and properly processed video let's take a look at my favorite recommendations the first is the Retro tank 2x Pro a device designed to take the composite cables your old consoles probably came with and get them on a flat panel with no lag these also support s video and component video with some pretty cool options it only accepts 240p and 480i signals so you shouldn't use it for the Dreamcast or anything released after also it only outputs 480p so it's not the sharpest signal out there that said they're fairly priced and reliable if you're just looking to connect your classic consoles these are a great choice and if you want it sharper at least try turning up the sharpness on your TV some do a great job others don't but it's free to just turn it up and see what happens the next scaler I want to talk about is the open-source scan converter or ossc this is about the same price as the 2x Pro but only has component video RGB Scar and VGA inputs this will scale up to 1080p though and is a great choice for people who already have those signal and cable types maybe you've upgraded the cable from your classic consoles to component or SC or maybe you're using Dreamcast Wii and Xbox component or VGA cables either way it's a great choice especially at the price the only reason this isn't my first choice is the ossc doesn't have composite or S video inputs so you'd have to upgrade all of your cables and possibly even perform console mods in order to use it I'd also like to quickly mention the GBS control this is a cheap do-it-yourself solution that requires soldering and software flashing but is only about 50 bucks if you could mod it yourself it could perform almost as well as the ossc but actually has one advantage it has excellent handling of 480i signals so if you're on a budget and you have a PlayStation 2 I'd seriously consider this and some good component video cables just make sure to do the mod on the board and not use the GBS boards as is otherwise all of the issues I explained before will still apply the next device is probably the best choice overall for most people watching the retrotink 5x it's more than double the price of the other Solutions however it accepts every input including VGA with a cheap adapter and it scales all the way up to 1440p this isn't cheap but there's so many features that cover all use cases I've done quite a few videos on it over the years but I'll summarize it like this you can connect all your classic consoles using any cable type and even VHS players to this with barely any lag plus you get awesome features like true CRT mask emulation if you're serious about retro stuff at least consider this option the next option is a bit of a niche use case but still absolutely worth mentioning the ossc pro this is essentially a more powerful ossc that could scale to 1440p and even has an HDMI input while it's not quite as streamlined as the RT 5x it's a great choice if you have something like an HDMI adapter for the Gamecube or h HDMI mods for the Xbox and Wii Just connect the HDMI cable and have a true digital to digital upscale it's also compatible with more retro PCS and weird arcade boards than the tin 5x and its scaler offers a few more interesting modes like 12 HZ BFI at 1080p respectfully most people will probably pick up the original ossc at its lower price or the retr tank 5x but I bet there's a bunch of people that might prefer the ossc pro for their use case and the last scaler Dimension is the most advanced craziest gaming scaler ever made the retrotink 4K at more than double the price of the Retro tank 5x or ossc Pro this is definitely an enthusiasts Only Solution but it has every input and every crazy option you could imagine for retro gaming and even has some great features for scaling HDMI only consoles now whenever I talk about things that are on the expensive side some people get deeply offended and lose their minds at me so please allow me a moment to add just a little bit of perspective first of all if you go down the rabbit hole of retro gaming and decide that you want something like a fully restored and calibrated Sony BVM RGB monitor that's the equivalent of buying a fully restored classic car and there's a chance that depending on the model BVM you buy you'll spend far more on that than you would getting a retro ttin 4K and an OLED TV and while you could never truly recreate this CRT experience on a flat panel it comes really close and you would end up with a TV that you could use for multiple other things but if that's not enough for you think about it like this are you the type of person who would rather save up and get an Acura or a Lexus or do you look at those as just rebranded Hondas and Toyotas and you'd rather not spend the extra money if so that's totally fine the other scalers I mentioned are all awesome at a much cheaper budget and any one of them's a win just pick whichever scaler fits your current budget as well as the cables you plan on using now that wasn't a comprehensive list of every single Retro Gaming scaler out there those are just the ones that I personally recommend that I've had a ton of experience with that I'm confident and recommending cuz you could just plug in your consoles start gaming and if you want more information on each or if you want to learn how to use some of the crazy awesome features that some of those have check out all the videos on the YouTube channel as well as the posts on the website s ite that really dig in deep to give you an idea of what to expect with each one now as with everything in technology there's always going to be new things released and new stuff on the horizons planned on coming out but for now those are my solid recommendations and I think they're going to be for quite some time to come so hopefully this video summarized everything that you would need to know don't connect your classic consoles directly to the analog video inputs of flat panel TVs use some kind of HDMI scaler or qu quality plug andplay cable if you're going to do so and connect to the HDMI inputs check out whichever scalers you're interested in based on what cables you already own or cables that maybe you plan on upgrading to in the future and of course if you want just pick up a CRT if you can and maybe that's all you would ever need and you'll be happy with that either way hopefully I was able to point you in the right direction if you like this video and want to see more like it please consider supporting the channel retr ads to try and make a better user experience but that was only possible due to the amazing patreon and float plane supporters so please consider signing up if you're not in a position to you can still help by using general affiliate links to buy the same stuff on Amazon for the same price but we get a cut and I mean anything you were going to buy toilet paper whatever just click that link first and don't forget about the affiliate links in the description of this video too those really help anyway thanks for watching and I'll see you next time

Channel: RetroRGB

Views: 128,321

Keywords: retrorgb, retro gaming, classic gaming, composite to hdmi, retrotink 5x, retro games, video games, retro gamer, scart to hdmi, open source scan converter, retrotink 4k, mike chi, retrotink 2x, retro games console, retrotink 5x pro ps2

Id: TdfFnR-hOK8

Length: 17min 30sec (1050 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 18 2023