Why Pathfinder 2 is better than D&D 5e (and why it isn’t)

what I'm going to do today is give you what I consider to be the pros of Pathfinder second edition and the pros of D and D fifth edition Oh Baby by the way by the way we got a new cat this is Twitch he is adorable um and he is bothering me today he wants to jump up on my keyboard on my as I'm recording here and that's not going to work is it twitch a he's such a big boy he's a loud per or two he's super super loud all right buddy you're going back down don't jump on my keyboard go find something to do go bite a mouse or something anyway we're going to talk about what each system does well and the goal here is to give some guidance to folks who may be deciding which system to pick up or if they want to switch from one to the other now I've played Pathfinder 2 for about 9 months now both as a player under a few different game Masters and game mastering it myself both at a convention and for my home game in fact all of my pathfinder 2 home games are right here on YouTube if you care to watch them and I have played and game master D and D fifth edition for eight or N9 years or so I don't remember exactly it's been a while I mention this because reading a game systems book is not sufficient to give truly meaningful feedback on it you really need to drive it around a bit get under the hood and have it break down on you a few times before you have a basis for talking intelligently about it which is what I'm going to do my best to do today the advantages of Pathfinder second edition number one the math of encounter creation is more reliable that is calculating the difficulty of various encounters trivial easy moderate severe and extreme actually works like the calculations are accurate and if something is Trivial it feels trivial if something is severe it feels severe like you could you could lose this fight and for me what I found is that this makes it easier for the game master because you're not just throwing together a bunch of monsters and hoping and praying or adjusting the encounter mid combat because oh crap it's too easy or holy crap it's too hard and the math didn't warned me and ah I think I am not alone when I say that guessing at fifth edition encounter difficulty has been an ongoing frustration for me as a game master for that system probably lots of game Masters who find that super super frustrating that D andd fth Edition encounter calculator math is just broken and crappy for the most part number two home brewing is easier monsters traps the whole works the game mastery guide for Pathfinder 2 doesn't excellent job of laying out the rules my experience is that home breing a monster in Pathfinder 2 is a breeze the rules are all right there you just follow them and in fifth edition it is a royal pain though online monster making programs do make this a bit easier but you don't really need one for Pathfinder 2 because it's so straightforward cannot say that about about fifth edition and as a bonus as a bonus the rules for creating monsters that the game designers themselves used are what they published in Pathfinder 2 you see that that may seem like and that's the way it should be right like if these are the rules that you use when you're designing monsters for your game developers that that's what you should publish in your game mastery guide I mean that makes sense obvious common sense right however it is a known fact that the rules Wizards of the Coast designers use for making monsters are not those that are published in the dungeon master guide there have been views and Snippets of a certain special spreadsheet that somebody once saw Mike Merles using and who knows what else they might be using but what they put in the dungeon master guide is not what they actually use when creating monsters like they're they're protecting their secret sauce or it's like they they rushed their product out to hit a certain date and they Lish things and it was too late to change it or who knows what happened but we did not get the secret sauce they kept that for themselves and their hamburgers taste better and that's not fair number three the rules are better fleshed out some will call this crunchy with a negative connotation what we find in fifth edition is that there are rules that are vague and that they need the game master to make house rules on and that often results in player discussions and arguments around that but in Pathfinder 2 they thought about a lot of this big stuff and it's covered in the rules and that's rather comforting for a game master to just say it's in the rules I don't have to Hash this out and make a house ruling on it now Pathfinder 2 is not as rules light as fifth edition is not that fifth edition is a rules light game by any means but Pathfinder 2 is a lot less crunchy than 3.5 or Pathfinder 1 it seems to be a pretty good balance between the super Crunch and the less crunch that results in ambiguity and rules discussions and with more fleshed out rules you often get better gameplay and game Mechanics for instance the system for poisons and diseases in Pathfinder 2 called afflictions is way better than fifth edition system and it makes poisons and diseases progress and get worse over time which is how they should work a lack of rules can make it harder for a game master to run the game a lack of rules also means that the game is more game master Fiat in other words it's up to the game master to decide how something should work and in practice ice when you have a good game master running a game that runs by Fiat you get a good game but if you have a bad game master running a GM Fiat game then you often get a bad game because GM Fiat means that players are at the mercy of their game Masters number four combat is more tactical in Pathfinder 2 I find myself using other options than just attacking demoralize faint shove Etc in fifth edition usually the best thing to do is just stand there and swing away that's how we swing our weapons in fifth edition in Pathfinder 2 buffing and debuffing to get bonuses and added penalties is important the game as a whole seems more designed for teamwork and not just every character doing their thing and acting independently which leads to better tactical combat overall number five three action economy speeds up combat when everything is an action it prevents the drag that you can find in d d when a player is scanning their sheet looking for a bonus action like I have I could use a bonus action do I have anything that's a bonus action like is there a possibility for a bonus action like I don't want to waste any of my possible actions you know because they they want to milk every possible Advantage they can on their turn and I don't blame them now in Pathfinder 2 combats can still take some time I would not classify them as fast by any means however they do seem faster than fifth edition and the Simplicity of three actions is very nice by the way if you're a Pathfinder second edition or D andd 5 game master looking to reduce your prep time and improve your games you should check out layer magazine each issue of layer magazine contains Adventure arcs Standalone Adventures traps puzzles monsters encounters and other game master resources you can drag and drop into your ongoing campaign furthermore lay magazine Adventures are now available on Foundry VT for both fifth edition and Pathfinder 2 to learn more check out the link down below or if you want to get every single issue of lir magazine from 2021 into convenient hard cover books or PDFs you can pick up layers and legends and loot and lore on the DM layer store these books are stinking massive super high quality super awesome beautiful high quality and will give you content for years to come number six the game is viable from Level 1 to 20 in fifth edition most people will agree that the game is really only playable from levels 3 to 10 maybe level 12 and then everything breaks down and falls apart this is in part due to the math behind the system in part due to overpowered abilities and spells that just break things and in part due to underwhelming highle creatures that just don't challenge characters Pathfinder 2 seems way better designed so that you can play from Level 1 to 20 and everything still works admittedly this is based on what I have heard others tell me not experience as I've not played higher levels however from what I've seen the Pathfinder 2 developers really did an exceptionally well job on the math behind the game so I'm very much inclined to believe what I'm being told number seven character options abound and they are balanced as a player of Pathfinder 2 you have tons of options for building your character ancestries backgrounds classes skills all the different options truly make each character feel unique and Feats oh my word feats crazy amounts of Feats customizability is so amazing in Pathfinder 2 now while yes there are for sure better options at and worse options the balance among them seems pretty decent you won't have happen What happens in fifth edition if you build your PC wrong you might just totally suck or there are some classes or combos that are insanely powerful compared to others another thing in Pathfinder 2 is that multiclassing doesn't suck or create power builds like in fifth edition there's no more class dipping like you see in 5 for me personally Pathfinder 2 fixes all of the frustrations that I've had with fifth edition's multiclassing system like you know warlock everybody dips like one to three levels of warlock for the war hanging fruit whoever plays a straight warlock like all the way through like nobody there's no reason to and somebody in the comments would be like Luke I do great you're you're in the minority nobody plays stray warlock dude number eight rules are 100% free on Archives of nethys there is no pay wall there is no monthly sub to D and D Beyond you can quickly search for things during spring play find them and help them run your game better and faster flip through books and maybe find something or you just type it in archives of nothings and boom there it is it's pretty darn good furthermore there are character creation tools such as path Builder that are completely free and contain all of the options and piso isn't like shutting them down and forcing people to go to their own pay wall system like D and D Beyond does it's it's really kind of cool to have so many free online resources that help you run your Pathfinder 2 game if you're on a budget Pathfinder 2 seems to be a clear winner Wizards of the Coast is striving very hard to take more of our money not provide things for free like piso does number nine Pathfinder 2 is easier for a game master to run because of a lot of these things that I've already discussed better fleshed out rules reliable encounter difficulties easy home brewing running Pathfinder 2 is easier for a game master than running fifth edition take this with a grin of salt though I mean I'm an experienced game master and for me Pathfinder 2 is easier there is always a learning curve of course but once you get past it things get easier with fifth edition even though I've played it for nearly a decade there are still things that I'm guessing at and just hoping work because the system just doesn't support certain things like like high level play last night in a game my players were they're like level 18 now and have access to some crazy spells and they're looking at these things and they're thinking of using them and I'm crapping my pants as the game master like what am I going to do if they use that spell to do the thing that they're saying they're going to do like literally crapping myself well figuratively literally crapping myself thankfully they didn't do what they were talking about there are points with fifth edition especially at higher levels and I'm just like I don't know how to run this game like I don't know even what to do and here I've been a game master for like forever and have tons of experience with the game system yet there are still things that come up where I'm just like dear Lord help me by the way if you're finding this information useful please give me a thumbs up and share this video with others one of the best ways you can help game Masters and players is by sharing helpful content the advantages of D and D fifth edition okay I've been dunking on fifth edition a little bit you could tell it just came out some of my frustrations so now we're going to talk about the things that I think fifth edition does really well and that I still enjoy about it there are lots of things I like about fifth edition these are some of the things that I think distinguish it as a game system and make it really good number one bounded accuracy okay so what does bounded accuracy mean it basically means that there isn't an infinite linear scaling of things like Armor class to hit bonuses damage and hit points for example in fifth edition Armor class sticks to a range of about 12 at the extreme low to a maximum of about 25 you almost never find a monster with an armor class above 25 however in Pathfinder 2 Armor class just keeps going higher and higher as the level of the PCS and monsters increases there are no upper limits now bounded accuracy gives some distinct advantages to gamepl first of all L level monsters remain viable to be used against higher level groups and that is not true at all in Pathfinder 2 if you take a lowlevel super lowle monster and put it against a high level group it's no contest they can't even hit them and the high levels are critting and it's just obliterated like you can't throw cob bals against cr10 Pathfinder 2 characters it just doesn't work in D and D fifth edition you can Cobalts are still going to lose but it's not super crazy trivial well maybe a little bit but it it's better than you get where I'm going and the converse is true as well when lower level characters go against higher level monsters in fifth edition they still feel like they're able to do something because the characters can still hit them they can still inflict some damage they might still be outclassed and lose but they won't feel worthless in Pathfinder 2 because of monsters scaling characters going against highle monsters that are like way higher than them usually feel completely powerless the monster armor class is so high the PCS can't even hit them and the monster attack bonuses are so high that almost every hit is a critical hit so in D and D fifth edition as a game master I have a lot greater freedom in which monsters I can throw at my players the challenge rating is important sure but bounded accuracy makes things much more forgiving Pathfinder 2 is not forgiving in this regard I have to be very careful that I throw the correct creature levels against the PCS or things could go south very very fast potentially leading to an unenjoyable game session this has actually been one of the things that I've most been trying to wrap my head around and learn in my last several game sessions with my pathfinder 2 home group is figuring out the right level and number of creatures to put against my party and it's been a frustration I think I figured it out but it took some practice in doing for me to finally get there number two the advantage disad Advantage system is easy to use not having to count all of the plus ones and negative 1es and plus tws and negative - tws which can become time consuming and potentially confusing is really cool it's just advantage or disadvantage that's all there is to it it minimizes your mental math and it speeds up gameplay number three character creation is easy fewer options when creating your character means it is an easier time to create your character you're not sitting there trying to figure out all the different options to pick the ones and the an analysis paralysis stuff you just there are fewer choices it's easier to choose what you want like it's like going to a restaurant where there's like five pages to the menu you're like oh my word what am I going to pick your classic Chinese restaurant it's like oh my gosh there are so many options I don't know what to get whereas you go to some place where it's like oh man it's a burger joint like Five Guys for instance you go to Five Guys Burger and Fries like if you can't figure out what you want dang you the menu is so simple you know also leveling up in D and for Edition is easier and faster because of the fewer options there's not very much of this LevelUp paralysis where you just can't decide what you're going to pick also there really isn't a need to plan your character from Level 1 to 20 before you start playing in other games players often do this because otherwise they might make a mistake and miss out on an option at X level that has certain requirements prerequisites that must be taken at earlier levels the bottom line is that fifth edition character creation is very new player friendly whereas Pathfinder 2 character creation is far more complex number four the massive player base since so many people play fifth edition finding a game generally isn't that hard though your mileage may vary of course and if you're a game master getting together players is usually really easy for D and D fifth edition I put up a game posting and like just people flocking beating down the door I'll play I'll play I'll play now this is is a benefit that cannot be understated if there is X game system you want to play but you can't find anyone who plays it or wants to play it you're just out of luck now yes Pathfinder 2 does have a large player base so if you want to play Pathfinder 2 chances are you're going to not have any trouble with that however the 5V player base is much larger that's just a simple fact now of course if you're playing online then finding players for either of the games is probably not going to be that hard if you're doing it in person then it becomes more challenging and you all know that I think that playing in person is way more fun than playing online number five d& fth Edition is easier to pick up for players new to the Hobby for various reasons ease of character creation Advantage disadvantage system slightly less crunchy rules D and D fit Edition is easier for new players who have never played a tabletop roleplaying game to get into the hobby I have introduced multitudes of new players to D andd fifth edition over the years and it's really not that hard recently at a convention I was introducing Pathfinder 2 to new players and it was more challenging than if I had been introducing fifth edition it wasn't crazy hard and they'd all played fifth edition D and D before so they kind of picked up and we were fine but it was more challenging that's just a simple fact there is a saying that I have heard quite a bit and it goes along these lines D and D fifth edition is easier to play Pathfinder 2 is easier to game master and I think there's probably a lot of Truth in that statement number six the adventuring day mechanic d indd fifth edition game design mechanics tell the game master roughly how many encounters a group of characters should be able to handle in a day before they need to go rest and recover resources such as spell slots for me this makes designing Adventures easier as a game master now yes the flawed encounter design math and messed up challenge rating system math do throw a wrench into the adventuring day mechanic but the fact there is that it exists and it does mostly work for levels like 3 through 12 however Pathfinder 2 doesn't have this and it can make designing Adventures more challenging I have found that I have basically two options one I design the adventure and not really care how many times the players take 30 minutes to 1 hour breaks to get all healed up or leave the dungeon to go rest and get their spell slots back or two I maybe only have one or two moderate or severe encounters and then everything else in the adventure is Trivial and low difficulty they should mostly ensure that at least they don't need to leave the dungeon to get spell slots back personally I'm not actually sure which I prefer more fifth edition's adventure and day mechanic or Pathfinder 2's lack of one having the mechanic does give you guidance and how many encounters to throw in your dungeon yes but then as a game master I feel like I'm in this resource depletion game and required to wear my players down before the fight with the big bad the beauty of the Pathfinder 2 system is that I worry less about wearing PCS down and I can just have a severe encounter and know that it will be challenging even if they have full resources and when you throw in the issue with fifth edition's challenge rating and encounter difficulty systems not really working that well mathematically we're probably at an impass now I really love both game systems I think DNT fifth edition is amazing I like Pathfinder 2 I enjoy playing both of them but that's just what I think about Pathfinder 2 in D and D fth edition what do you think let us know down in the comments and if you'd like to get loads of GM resources for your Pathfinder 2 or 5e game don't forget to check out lir magazine or layers of Legends and loot and lore at the links below now if you've been trying out new game systems recently or you plan to I have a critical message for you right here something you need to know and until next time happy game mastering

Channel: the DM Lair

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Keywords: d&d, d&d 5e, dnd, dnd 5e, dnd 5th edition, dungeons and dragons, dungeons & dragons, rpg, role-playing game, roleplaying game, dungeon master tips, DM tips, dungeon master advice, DM advice, the dm lair, luke hart, d&d for beginners, playing d&d, running d&d, game master tips, pathfinder, pathfinder 2e, game master, GM tips, dnd vs pathfinder, dnd vs pathfinder 2e, dnd 5e or pathfinder 2e

Id: 5GX4uVY9wug

Length: 20min 54sec (1254 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 17 2023