Why I left the ACNA (Anglican Church in North America)

my name is Steve Macias and this is why I left the acna but before I begin I need to preface by saying that this title is a little bit sensationalistic and a little bit misleading because I currently am a presbyter in good standing in the Diocese of Mid-America in the reformed Episcopal Church which is a jurisdiction of the Anglican Church in North America but before I got there I was actually confirmed in the acna under a different diocese I came into the acna under the churches for the sake of others I was confirmed by Bishop Todd Hunter and I served for a number of years in his churches in Northern California and eventually though I did leave the acna and then come back to the acna and it's not appropriate to go through all the details and about who was involved and why I left and different things at a granular level but I think it is important for me to describe what I think is a common Viewpoint that young men like me experience when we're dissatisfied with our kind of ecclesiastical politics and I have to like admit and I've had to repent of really a an arrogance that I had that was not really based on a certain degree of intelligence or capability or leadership qualities or even theological Acumen but really based on some misconceptions about what the church is and the role of the institutional church and the reason I'm making this video today and why I think it's appropriate to talk about this is because of what's happening in the Church of England with its institutional identity so Church of England is going through something very similar to what the Episcopal Church which is kind of the cognitive that in the America so the short history is when anglicanism came with the founding fathers to America it became the Episcopal Church originally the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States and this is the church that George Washington belonged to before the Revolution and After the Revolution and many of our American presidents and lots of our cultural history as Protestants in America come from the Episcopal Church that really went through a crisis first over revisions of its own prayer book over women's ordination doctrines around the uh inerrancy of the scripture or even specific you know creedal ideas like the Virgin birth or the resurrection uh ultimately leading up to discussions about homosexuality and the role of openly homosexual Bishops which caused the creation of an alternative to the Episcopal Church in the Anglican short in North America Anglican Church in North America or acna as a jurisdiction for people who wanted to remain Anglican but could not submit to unorthodox or even perhaps not even legitimate Bishops because of their moral identities uh so a similar thing has now happened in the Church of England where the blessing of same sex couples or however you want to choose to Nuance it the idea is the acceptance of homosexuality in an ecclesiastical body which for uh conservative Christians who believe that the tradition of the church from the apostolic period until now and has taught consistently that marriages ordained by God an institution the church May Bless but not change it's one man and one woman and so this is creating factions within the Church of England there's already a existing alternative to the Church of England there's actually a number but you know the Free Church of England is one of them that have kind of an Anglican identity but there's also the the Anglican Mission Europe and Bishops there as well but this causes concern for people who are either in the ministry or considering churches because this sense of institutional divide you know all of these Protestant denominations as we see them grow and divide uh stands in contrast to what we imagine Jesus is saying in the gospels about the church being one and so as a young Christian recently confirmed a part of the Anglican Church one of the appeals or the draws to the liturgical tradition was a continuity with the bishop tracing it back to a Apostolic lineage either by baptism or by ordination but there was a connection between what we believe today and what the early church believed and that there was some type of organic or institutional Unity amongst them and when we see the church divided over these issues we perhaps doubt the validity of a particular polity or ecclesiastical system and that's the conversation that I've had over the last few weeks with some folks who are struggling with these divides in the church and last night I even had a conversation with a young man who was struggling with whether or not he should be Eastern Orthodox or remain Anglican because of the issue of institutional unity and we can talk about all of the different definitions of what makes a church but in my mind as a young person institutional Unity had often been one church under one denomination kind of like what we see uh under maybe perhaps the Roman Catholic Church where everybody submits to the pope and I had a type of naivety that thought that that is what Unity was and that that's what Protestants to strive for that Protestant Unity would be all under one organization with a monolithic set of beliefs and I think lots of denominations fall into that trap we've seen in my church history folks of the reformed side who said if we're not following Westminster you're not really reformed you're not part of the institutional church and so you've seen splinters there but on this question we have to ask is institutional Unity the mark of a church being one think Protestants can or must admit that it can't be that right because there's a reason that the Protestant Church divides from the church Catholic whether you say we are divorced from them or they divorce from us however you want to frame it you have to recognize that the Protestant reformers saw there were two different Christian bodies and that it was worthy as a Protestant to see that division uh so sometimes concessions are made in that direction and I've had Anglican friends lament that I've had Anglican friends celebrate that but I think it goes back even further than that I think a lot of us are putting our hope in polity as though it is the solution for this institutional Unity problem as though an Episcopal system or a Presbytery system a presbyterian system or a congregational system somehow might be the Panacea that would solve our problems but the sad truth is every single government system has succumbed to some degree of liberalism or humanism so perhaps my friends in the PCA or some other conservative reformed denomination might point to what's happening and say see that's the problem when you let Bishops and be in charge or when you involve the state in your religion you should try presbyterianism but you know the largest the larger Presbyterian denominations for example the PC USA where I had my first Ministry job is probably the most humanist of all of the American denominations outside of perhaps universalism or Unitarianism um so the idea of presbyterianism somehow wasn't a bulwark itself there had to be something else in addition to that and the same thing can be seen with congregationalism there are very staunch reformed conservative congregationalists in history men like I say Jonathan Edwards but today congregationalism is a grab bag it can be anything the the system of poly doesn't guarantee uh doesn't guarantee Orthodoxy and while that was frustrating for me as a young Anglican by studying church history you recognize it's not really a new issue for the church my oldest son's name is athanasius and I'd read uh you know his work on the Incarnation I had read his biography of Saint Anthony had read different biographies other people had written about athanasius and yet still I didn't recognize the type of ecclesiastical chaos that the world was in during his life right the fact that he lived in a a system but it had other Bishops and yet he had not as we often imagine this ideal sense of institutional Unity where all the church was won the church was still in this Unity institutionally even though it survived and so you have to ask the question what allowed the Apostolic Church the patristic church even you know the this church that lived through the great schism the church that lived through the medieval period the church that lived through the Reformation what allows it to continue and ultimately the answer is of course that the Holy Spirit doesn't leave the church and that Promises of Christ that the church will not fail belong to the church but it's never in the history of church an emphasis on the institutional Unity meaning the strength of the Church of athanasius was not that one group of people suddenly took charge said everything correct and from the top down everything worked out it was always a call back to a higher standard beyond the polity now I say that as somebody who certainly as an Anglican believe that Bishops are the biblical form of our government I believe there are historic form of government I believe that the Bishops are the right form and I am uh wholeheartedly in favor in that but I trust my Bishops because they trust the scripture I trust my Bishops in our tradition because I know their ultimate Authority is the scripture and that also is a sense in which the institutional Unity must be secondary to a Unity of belief and there's not really a another way to describe this other than you know creedal Orthodoxy or or Mere Christianity that those are the things that must hold us together not uh a false belief that to be in communion with Canterbury or to be in communion with some historic see those things are not what saves the church what saves the church is its faith and Reliance on the doctrines that the scripture give us or or the scripture itself that the Holy Spirit has revealed to us so to tell my story a little bit about why I left the acna really was me becoming frustrated with the portion of the the acna that I was in and one of the issues that really was a struggle for me was that my diocese had women in orders and so what that means is they allowed females to be ordained um as deacons and the diocese allowed females to be ordained as priests and somebody who was more catholic-minded myself a catholic-minded meaning not in the sense of the ritual or Roman Catholicism but somebody who said that we have to continue to believe what was believed at all times everywhere the rule of Saint Vincent type of thinking and for me it was not a degradation of women or holding to some Antiquated view of women but rather that because the church had never ordained women in the role of presbyter or a liturgical function for women in the celebration of holy communion in the history of the church as you can see with the continuation of a male-only priesthood in both the Roman and Orthodox churches and in the Anglican Church up until the 1960s right so there is this historical record that women were not priests we're not deacons and yet here I was struggling with an Institutional identity where I knew this particular belief didn't jive with the rest and I there are some parts where it's an issue in some parts where it's not an issue I think if you don't have a female minister in your congregation maybe you don't deal with it I think there are lots of folks in the Anglican communion who don't have a female Minister it doesn't bother them or they grew up after a time when it was normal to have female ministers and so they don't recognize it as a discontinuity with history or they have been falsely taught that there were historically women in Ministry and that somehow patriarchy of Christendom had snuffed them out which is also not true or they have been taught that somehow the Bible has changed its meaning and now we can have female ministers but uh for me it wasn't an issue serving in the acna because my particular portion of the diocese didn't have a female priest to serve over me so I didn't have to come up to receive communion from a woman I didn't have to support that kind of ministry until I did and uh so somebody who was pursuing all the orders I decided that this was an issue that put the acna at odds with the rest of historic Christendom and so I left the ACA and I think there are a lot of people like me who feel feel that way that this is like a symptom of under other underlying issues that if you can't be reliable on the issue of female orders then what else are you willing to compromise on when this is something really really Crystal Clear both biblically in the writings of Saint Paul historically in the history of the church and theologically because of what a male minister in the celebration public communion means and so if you're willing to compromise on something like that that destroys your institutional Unity with historic Christendom meaning now there is no longer any connection between Anglican bodies that ordain women and historic Christian groups like Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox they can't even recognize each other's orders because they're completely different substantive things to have male and female others or male and female breastfeeders so I left the acna and I spent some time in what we call today as the Anglican continuum and there are a number of fractured groups here but what was characteristic of the Anglican Continuum was really this emphasis on doctrinal Purity in various forms so some people in the Continuum are very doctrinally conform conform to a sense of anglo-catholicism in the use of the missile or the use of a ritual system and that's kind of more of the the side that I would gravitate towards but then there were others that were very low church or focused more on a sense of of sociological unity and the ritual and the address was less important to them and uh for the most part though I'm I'm kind of in the middle there I would describe myself as as reformed theologically of a history in reformed and Presbyterian churches and so that kind of theology is really important to me but I don't object to the wearing of surpluses or Catholics or different use of candles or incense and so uh in the Continuum I really didn't fit in in either world but there was also that same issue of institutional Unity here I was leaving the acna because it didn't jibe with my definition of institutional church as being one and to a more fractured body and those of us in the Continuum recognize this we we recognize the kind of I don't know the cognitive dissonance or or the The self-perpetuating Narrative that uh the this church over here is so divided so let's divide again how that that was counterproductive and so men in the Continuum either committed to uh a resolve of oh well we're just going to hold on to this Legacy keep these Museum churches alive for the sake of the doctrine or what I saw a lot of young men struggling with this path do they would go into a church that purported or described itself as being more institutionally one and usually that was Rome Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy and for me though that was just a jump too far theologically as an Anglican I am a Protestant and it's not because I object to uh an icon or a crucifix although you know arguments can't be made about those things but it's primarily an issue of salvation by grace by faith those are the dividing lines between what makes somebody brought us to an orca those are the issues divided debated at the Council of Trent whether or not you should wear a surplus those are intramural fights amongst Protestants and weren't really my main concern but as these men went off into Catholicism or Orthodoxy I've seen many return because what they see in Roman Catholicism is that the institutional Unity is not a uniformity or a comfort their sacrifices they have to make there as well you know a conservative man who's trading out becoming more conservative Roman Catholic goes over the Tiber and joins a conservative diocese still belongs to a church where Francis is his Pope and the German Bishops are still in communion with him and has this strange bedfellow relationship with liberals or neoliberals or folks and so you have to kind of pick which poisonous bedfellows you want your community to be a part of and the same thing is true in those who choose to go the route of Eastern Orthodoxy now my reason for staying Anglican and not being Roman Catholic or not being Eastern Orthodox is theologically not political it's I am a person who believes in the scripture as they're taught by the 39 articles of religion but the men who would go off into Orthodoxy perhaps they can Overlook those theological differences but the the promise of institutional Unity is not there the division between uh the the antiochians and the Greeks and the Russians are real and it's not just ethnic differences there are real theological differences between Eastern Orthodox theologians and they have maybe not the same dividing lines as us of abortion or female ordination but they do have differences politically and uh ecclesiastically and they are not institutionally United in perfect and un changed since the time of the Apostles every denomination that you look at as institutionally one does have its divisions its bumps its sources bruises and here when I was in the Continuum I went through a couple of these divisions and changes where Bishops move and and one of our Bishops wanted to become Orthodox and it wasn't a bridge I could cross over and my congregation certainly would not have gone that way and the uh choice I had to make was to find a place where I could fit in and so strangely enough I found myself back into the acna I don't think I would have gone back into the same diocese that I was confirmed in um and for a number of reasons I don't think my congregation would have gone back in the same diocese I was confirmed in but what I did um is when I was doing research about what we should do because we're not going to be Orthodox and we're not going to be I'm not going to be a independent Anglican with kind of an oxymoron I ran into an old friend and uh I said ran into a meeting he I sent him an email he called me and that old friend is is Ray Sutton and uh I should call him Bishop son because he is my Bishop ordinary he's presiding Bishop of the RAC and I just sent him an email saying this is what our church is going through here what uh here's what I feel about the acna here are my concerns and what should I do and I was deferring to somebody with with wisdom I first encountered Ray Sutton years ago through his old Tyler work which is great and I was convinced of the idea of episcopacy through a pamphlet he wrote a number of years ago and then I was a delegate to one of the acna assemblies uh I can't remember what year that was almost almost 10 years ago and that's when I first met him in person and then when I I reached out and said hey one of our Bishops is going Orthodox kind of Orthodox uh not traditional Orthodox uh and they're not going to go with them you know what what should we do because I've had issues in the acna and I don't really have faith in this whole women's orders issue and that's when he really captured me with the vision of the rec now I knew what the RAC was I had copies of the rec prayer book for you know the last 15 years ever since becoming an Anglican the RAC has been something I knew about but I didn't quite understand the Dynamics of how the RAC was formed the purpose of it from this last century and a half of its history and its role in the acna and so often you'll hear the RAC described as a a founding jurisdiction of the Anglican Church in North America which is which is accurate when the Episcopal Church was really going through this crisis over the ordination of a gay Bishop the RAC already had existed you know for over a century as a Anglican denomination and it already had an existence in a pedigree of being faithful to the Anglican formularies to the book of common prayer to the Articles and had maintained its Episcopal lineage you know all the way back through and so this witness provided a good partner for a group like the ACA where all of these other diocese were coming out of the Episcopal church and forming and alternative body with the help of the Gaff con or the global Anglican uh Global Anglican movement with the Africans and the South Americans and the other conservative Anglican bodies that didn't want to recognize the Episcopal church because of their moves not only from Orthodoxy but from Biblical sexual ethics and identity and so I'm talking with with Bishop Sutton on the telephone and explaining my young man's view of well doesn't the church need to have a unified view on this this and this and he he I can't remember the exact quotes and so I'm not going to pretend that I could quote that conversation that we had over the phone one day after one of the school days here at Canterbury but the gist of the conversation was that the RAC is insulated and uh that that's an interesting thing to say but the RSC as a jurisdiction is in itself its own jurisdiction within the acna and so it has its own uh you know government its own house its own you know convention type materials and so the RAC continued to exist as its own church and then covenants together with the larger conservative Anglican Church in North America now that's probably unusual I don't know my uh ecclesiastical Allegiance history in the Reformation to know if there's any other groups that have done something exactly like this but what it meant for me is that the issue of women's orders the issue of you know liberalism or humanism or all of the other theological controversies that have corrupted other churches were fenced away from the rec that the Rec's Bishops had created a place where in our diocese uh you know whether it was here on the West Coast or in Texas or there in the northeast or the southeast that these RAC bodies would be governing themselves according to their established principles and they couldn't be changed by this new institution called the acna should the the cancer of women's ordinations continued to spread right so they had safeguarded a place for people like me uh who were theologically conservative biblical minded reformed liturgical Christians to serve and I think that's uh that was a big relief for me at the time but it also came with not just a bunker-down mentality because it also and Bishop selton also invited me to be a part of a vision of God's victory in working out in North American anglicanism right rather than continuing to break down and Splinter and continue to separate ourselves from any place of influence the rec is right here in the middle of the acna and I think there's a confidence that the rec Bishops have that I didn't have as a you know 20 something year old uh seminarian or aspirin or postulant and that was that God was going to work out for his good his church and so when the Bishops tell you uh you know God's at work in his church and he's going to work all these things out we don't have to worry about winning every single battle all across the world we're going to be faithful with what God has given us and we'll see the blessing in return for that that kind of changed me from finding the pure institutional Church to finding a faithful church with a vision that it will win in the future and so I can't pretend to know the future of what the ACD will do what various diocese will do but since I joined a number of years ago I have not seen in a creeping towards liberalism I've seen the exact opposite by the rec being a witness to the churches in the acna they've been able to hold the line on a number of issues that we really care about right there's not been a an effusion of women forced it upon us as was feared by some in the very beginning no people have respected our boundaries and our pulpits and our communion tables and we've been able to keep our tradition as it as it is expected by our constitutions and candidates but on the other side of that the RC has grown as a consequence of that we've been able to uh develop new new ways of influencing North American anglicanism by being involved in the conversation by being involved in the National and also International conversation the RSC has been given a very important role to represent the tradition as a substantial body but I don't speak for the RAC so I'm just a lowly presbyter who is grateful for a place to serve in the church and so don't conflate anything that I say is the official position of the RNC and I know our doses in office loves to field questions about this and they're very gifted at the relationships both between anglicans and other ecumenical bodies in fact Bishop Sutton is The ecumenical officer between the acna and other Christian bodies but all of that to say something that I tell people who visit our local church all of the time and that there's there's no perfect church I as a pastor will probably let you down or fail you you'll probably disagree with me about something but I believe that God puts you here to serve in this church for a reason he came in off the street to serve in this ministry and even though all of us aren't going to be institutionally identical that God does work out in his body uh that Union Jesus says of us being one through the messy Human Relationships we do have and the proper perspective I believe that that we as reformed anglicans should have is not to continue to retreat and bunker down and divide and be divisive and tear down other Bishops but rather put forward what we have to offer you know continue to preach those sermons continue to teach continue to raise up new seminarians new priests new pastors new Ministries new churches and it is that movement forward that is going to create the unity that you so desire the other way of of tearing down everybody who is in slight disagreement with you is not going to be a path towards growth now before I was in the Anglican Church I had a job in the State Assembly I worked in California for the Republican in a pretty conservative District but in the state level we were a very very ineffectual office because we didn't really have the votes we were a small minority and a largely Democrat state and I had a mentor at the time who gave me a vision uh for how to handle it when maybe you're the minority yet you need to exert influence or even protect or preserve your influence in that situation and he used the an illustration from a book by a man named H.L Richardson who was a California state Senator a number of years ago who was not passed but H.L Richardson talked about this this whole spectrum of participation in the political cycle he said if you imagine a spectrum of all the people who are uh eligible to vote in a particular District so you have the total population but only a small portion of those people actually register to vote and then of those who actually register to vote and even smaller portion of those people actually show up to cast their vote and so even though there might be millions of people or tens of thousands of people in any particular government a designated area for a assembly or for Senate or a congressional seat the actual number of people who participate is much smaller and then of those people who actually cast their votes only a small number of them do anything beyond vote for the person whose name they recognize one of the things we learned in political campaigns is Name ID was the number one reason somebody voted for you they saw your yard sign they saw the sign on the highway they saw your TV commercial they heard your radio ad even if they do nothing about your issue they saw the right letter Republican or Democrat next to your name and they recognize the name then you probably got their vote so of those people who are actively engaged in this political process a very small number are actually influencing it but it gets even more granular than that because only a small percentage of people in any particular District are involved in perhaps the Central Committee where they choose the candidates or in the committee for fundraising or for any particular candidate that the activist number of people who choose the policies choose the candidates all that is this minuscule number and I can testify that who the assemblyman might be in a any given California District was determined by maybe three or four dozen Central Committee members who debated amongst themselves and they would choose that person who would go on the ballot and they would choose you know how to influence that so power even though it had been delegated over a great number of people the influence came from just a few dedicated folks in the minority and so often we get lost in this idea of institutional Unity that says if we can get everybody under one Authority then all of our problems will be solved but yet the church is never focused or never won when it focused that way athanasius was won against all the other Bishops deposed more than once right and so it was the dedicated minority that believed in something that was real that had the real influence and so that illustration for me was perhaps a small Anglican Remnant who believes in the Articles and formularies is the same functioning body as this in the political sphere the other anecdote that I'll close with here um is something that another Pastor told me and I used to write these uh blogs that were critical of other people in my reformed Camp so you know I disagreed with somebody's view in a book and so I wrote a Blog about it and criticized this person and impugned their character and made some conclusions and I even though I'd never met the guy right but because he believed X Y and Z he must be a scoundrel and believe all these things as well and so A very wise and and loving Pastor pulled me aside he didn't say take down those blogs what he said was very similar to what I just said about the power of influence from a small number of people but the opposite direction and he said Steve how many how many Christians are there in America today I said oh probably about maybe half or less this is a number of years ago of America Christians he says right Steve so you got half of America Christians and how many of those Christians do you think believe the Bible is God's word and and he got a little bit smaller I said and how many of those Christians do you think are reformed you know that they hold to the doctrines of Grace oh that's a much smaller number you know the elector small and then of those reformed how many and we went through a couple of issues you know like how many believe in infant baptism and and how many believe in I think the issue he asked was post-millennialism right and so we get down to we could fit all of these people in one NFL stadium right uh we could probably fit all these people in one high school gymnasium at some on some of these issues but he looked at me and he said so Steve you you see the people in this room why are you fighting those guys the people who agree with you on all of these other issues instead of the people who don't instead of the people who aren't Christians instead of the people who don't understand the gift of free salvation why are you finding the folks in your own camp and I think that is also one of our our great enemies as anglicans because we take so much Pride uh and that's an appropriate word in our own systems our formularies our own confessions our own history our own Bishops our own understanding of it uh that we fire on the people who should be our allies not to say that the woman who puts on a collar has to be your ally but every Bishop who doesn't agree with you on everything you line up as important isn't your enemy and uh that's a difficult thing for a young 20-something year old man to admit and it requires a little bit of humility it requires somebody to trust that that perhaps and I believe this is the case but perhaps through the realignment process God creating the acna using the RSC as part of that through the Church of Nigeria's work and helping restart anglicanism in North America that there's going to be a real Biblical anglicanism that emerges from here but it's not going to happen all at once like magic it's going to require a patient humility where you hold to your convictions but recognize that people have to be brought along just like you were brought along we can't hate people for holding positions that we might have held just a few years ago but we need to patiently teach diligently give a reason for why we believe without destroying this fragile house that is anglicanism today and I think perhaps you're not an Anglican watching this but it's I think it's also true if you're in the PCA uh where you're trying to preserve the gospel there against uh re-voice for other other things like that or if you're in this conservative Methodist movement that's happening or perhaps you're in the Southern Baptist convention these are all similar fights that we're fighting but we can be United on the idea that scripture is our Authority Christ is our Lord salvation is by free Grace and rather than recognizing that the great issue is uh some Anglican not getting the formulas right in our own in our own place that the real issue is Christendom as a movement a Christendom as a part of history is now at a point where we need to defend the basics of the faith and then when we're arguing about these Fringe issues and tearing down each other here at the at the edges on these not even secondary not even third level but really lower level issues we're not just destroying uh our witness before the world but this institutional Unity that we all claim we want is being even more eroded because there will be no Christendom if we destroy it from within and I think that there is a greater battle from without right the the world around us is is quickly moving away from Christianity and we're not going to address that issue by these this infighting on the inside so basically that's why I left the AC name I thought I needed to find a more perfect Church I had to face that there really wasn't a perfect church and I came back into a wonderful Church the the RAC with with fantastic Bishops who um never in my life if I had Bishops call me so regularly to just check it upon us I never in my life if I felt so supported by a Brotherhood a priests never in my life have I felt the freedom to experiment and try things in the church never have I ever experienced really the the Lively growth and uh This Joy of ministry that I see amongst the men in our diocese and around the Odyssey around the country and I think that's true in a lot of acne diocese that we move past this idea that we're not the Episcopal Church we've moved past the idea that we're fighting over these issues and have gone to the other side and said our battle for today is to preserve Christendom for our children and for the next thousand years and to do that I'm gonna have to make some alliances that require some humility Within Me Maybe that means walking in the pro-life march with Roman Catholics maybe that means working at the Pregnancy Resource Center with Eastern Orthodox maybe that means teaching at seminaries or bringing people to our seminaries that are Baptists or Presbyterian recognizing that those differences are less important than the difference of having a Christendom for our children and seeing Christendom fall and I believe that Christ will not permit the church to fail and so we take that confidence and we say onward onward with the RAC honored with the acna may God purify his church take it from its heirs which We Believe they've been there may he heal our bumps and scrapes and bruises and our mistakes and give us an ability to recognize even those in our own backyard recognizing that building something requires more than just me all the complaints can be directed to uh to myself not to to my Bishop but uh I am I am a presbyterian the diocese in America so if there's anything objectionable here feel free to share that with him I didn't run this by him beforehand so I I hope everything I've said here is is uh kosher with with the rec uh his vision for the future I believe it is I believe that we do have a great hope in that things are going to work out and we don't have to compromise and uh that there's some humility there so thank you and I know this is strange for my channel especially since I'm not wearing my uh typical but uh clerical Garb it's a Saturday I'm here writing for tomorrow service and so perhaps this will make a fun thumbnail because it'll really look like it left the acna because I'm not even wearing my my Priestly garment but anyway Lord bless

Channel: Steve Macias

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Length: 43min 35sec (2615 seconds)

Published: Sun Feb 12 2023