Why Are the Russians So Bad? War Stories from Ukraine with Neil Vermillion

hey guys thanks for tuning in to another video on forgottenweapons.com I'm Ian McCollum and I'm joined again today by my friend Neil Vermillion uh we talked fairly extensively last time about your experiences working in Northern Iraq and in Ukraine what what can you tell us from a perspective of having been there and having the info having access to information that we don't see on the news meeting about how did this three-day operation to conquer Ukraine like that's it month what 16 now like it clearly didn't go according to plan no why um why that could be that's that's a seven hour episode if you want to talk about the ins and outs of why but just some just some personal thoughts yeah um you know I think the the concept of the invasion they executed the beginning like two steps properly they got guys in they took over airfields and then it all fell apart okay um so you had these guys coming in by helicopter you know low low and slow some of those guys got shot down some of them actually resurfaced from the lake um on Ukrainian Victory Day of like the separation day from Russia it was kind of [ __ ] up uh the in the Ukrainian instead of big social media posts and we're like hey I guess he wanted to come celebrate with us oh yeah it was it was it was rough um but so they landed you know they they got in and then they had some vehicles with the vdv guys and they had some guys you know come in from Belarus they had the guys coming in from the East and uh if they didn't give any of the maps first off okay so when you go someplace you need to find a way around you've never been before and you you're not going to use your GPS on your phone and let's say you don't have the funding within your military to have pluggers and things like the US military does you'd think that we'd give you printed Maps because that what they would do you know is just like in World War II you take this the road signs down and you take all this stuff so you don't know where you are but you need to be able to at least do some land nav to figure out okay like I ended up here I need to go there this is roughly the way I can get there there is plenty of Drone footage that you can find of these vehicles and twosies and threesies convoys just getting absolutely ass lost and so then they'll get you know they'll get lost they'll get turned around and then they'll be stuck in an area confused long enough the Ukrainian resistance at the you know because at the time it was resistance like it was just everybody take a gun everybody take a rock hit like we need to do something yeah remember this like crates of AKs anyone who wants one yeah have an AK and so there were these you know Motley groups of dudes that were like okay like we know there's three vehicles over there they don't know what they're doing like let's just go hit them hard and then scud out and they would and they're just and they're knocking out Vehicles left and right all day long um a personal uh a story that was told me personally by a guy that I met um he was in Kiev at the time he was part of the at one of the SF units I worked with and he was telling me about how the vdv there was a convoy of three vehicles one soft skin truck one uh soft skin like Jeep I don't know what what those guys some sort of gas 4x4 and then an armored vehicle of some sort one of the lighter um everyone wins and they came into Kiev alone like just down the main road it's a bold move yeah like we're talking you know you're getting you're watching tanks getting taken out and these dudes are like whatever like light-skinned Vehicles no big deal and they got shwacked by this dude and his guys I mean they were like they stopped in an intersection and we're talking apartment buildings those big Soviet style ones and they all had The High Ground and those dudes didn't stand a chance they were just I mean to the man just gone um and you know that what could have prevented that I think a lot of things it sounds like a lack of coordination as a major yeah like is it true I I I've heard I have read that the the Russian army Doctrine the organizational structure is very much top down it is the officer tells you what to do and then you go do it and one of the advantages allegedly of Western structures and organizations is much more focused on individual initiative the officer tells you what has to happen and you figure out you and your guys figure out how to go make it happen and this sounds like okay if anything goes wrong on this initial Advance into Kiev people get separated they now have nothing to work with and no training to to give them some notion of what to do and they just Mill around until they all get slaughtered tipped by local resistance yep that is that is a fact so we talked about this very briefly last time we were together um and that was one of the things that we were trying to train and instill in them is is commander's intent and the ability to figure out your own stuff is because you know things you know there's all the old adage of um you know no plan survives first contact with the Enemy so you have to be flexible you have to be able to do things because they're going to try to shoot your radio and they're going to try to shoot your mic they're going to try and shoot your officers so you've got to be able to top down ever top up top down bottom up no jobs and the idea of what you want to do um and they don't have that and and the ukrainians really didn't have at the beginning either and that was something we were trying to hammer into them because there's a there's a kind of like a joke but a saying that I remember from I think it's World War II where they were talking about you know why their Germans were so concerned about the Americans is because from the lack of like the Americans don't have orders they just know to go kill something like they just like okay you're bored you don't have anything to do go find something to shoot at or go find something to attack like that's that was sort of the the small unit operations that we had and and it does carry over to modern day um to an extent you know depending on the wars that we're fighting in the Roe and all the different yes caveats everything everything is situational um but the Russians don't have that so like if you for example um they centralize everything so they centralized uh uh I'll set it back somewhere somewhere on the east side they had centralized Ammo Depot with the barracks with the command post I think I remember hearing it and then this or another event like oh it happened multiple times but there was one that there and it's the Russians have allowed or or said 80 guys died everybody else thinks it was more like three or four hundred uh because they said oh there's a giant explosive Depot right next to where these guys are staying this whole Battalion so like let's take four highmars and just see what happens and so they basically just wipe those all those guys off the map um you know whereas U.S military Ukrainian military you know where do they store in the high Mars right now in Old Soviet Cold War nuclear shelters you're never gonna hit that makes sense in the thing they should know where they are somehow I guess they forgot those Maps too so they can't seem to knock those guys out either that's some serious income like I get knowing where it is but not being able to do anything about it because it's a nuclear hardened bunker but if you don't even know where it is and you're the guys who built it in the first place and you know where you drive in and out of there's I don't know how many entrances exes there are these places but like there's only a finite amount if you built it you would know yeah so you can be like okay so if we just collapse these we can at least keep those in there no they can't even do that the amount of money that dude's made is insane off this whole situation I don't know that It ultimately is going to work out well for him no but you might not live to see it because all the oligarchs are getting knocked off too yeah uh from your perspective having been over there and actively training um a bunch of the ukrainians how well do you think they're taking those those lessons of more of a western style of operation well they lost I'm just saying I mean not yet it's supposed to be a pure Force right and Ukraine was supposed to be one of the weakest and most corrupt militaries in the world yes I have heard that and it looks like Russia strong yeah and I don't think it's I think that was a big old lie uh I mean like the situation on the ground doesn't doesn't lie if it wasn't true Ukraine wouldn't be there anymore yeah but somehow they are exactly um I mean I was thinking more on an individual level like you're going and you're talking to discrete small units and you're telling like okay we recognize like your military foundational training back to you know World War II was under this same soviet-style system here's the alternative I I'm assuming that it's something that's being pretty eagerly um acquired on the Ukrainian side yep um so you know I showed up end of last year so they had some time before that so the the guys that I worked with specifically when I said you know our neighbors to the north I meant the Canadians so they had spent some time with them training them uh the US Army had spent some time training with them uh so they they had the the the basic structure that was needed and again you're so institutionalized to like this is how things go and this is how the military is supposed to be it's hard to break that tradition so it was I took it upon myself a little bit more than I probably should have because you're supposed to respect the chain of command of people you're working with and not impose yourself um but definitely was like Hey guys like like we'll do a training event right I'll kill the lieutenant right off the bat what do you do and they're like oh I'm like well now you don't now you're all dead too because you didn't know what to do that's why this is important they're like oh yeah we remembered that lesson like okay well now we need to work on that lesson again okay um and so and I think the the more units work the more the units work the Western Union militaries the more that gets done okay so it's just about exposure level I assume it's things like that are sinking in faster and better with special forces yes than they are like at the other end of the spectrum with territorial defense yes but did you see any of that up close like how well is is a rear you know a bottom tier sort of unit like a territorial defense group how well are they adapting to this sort of change um not I didn't have a bunch experience with them uh they they were very eager to learn anything okay um and so I think a lot of it stems to even though you know the great Ukrainian Army the special forces of tdf the National Guard all those guys um I think all of them have the same Drive same goal same motivation the problem is they just don't have the time to be trained and they don't there's not enough people in country or none of guys that can ship out to train in Britain and Spain and Italy wherever they're getting done um to be able to get that exposure and that's just not enough resources yeah because you take all those guys out who's gonna fight the war and then it's right that's a problem then that's even bigger issue you know why haven't the Russians taken up this sort of lesson you're talking about two armies where they're fundamentally pretty on par with each other structurally to begin with and the ukrainians have made these significant improvements and advances and the Russians haven't the Russians have a lot more resources at their disposal in theory allegedly well they did uh I mean there's there's a thing saying that what the Ukrainian tank numbers have like more than doubled and not from Western Vehicles like I don't I don't have I don't have the answer for that because you look at I mean look at all the the wars that that Russia's fought where this is the same thing like there was a um a real famous video from I want to say it was chechnya um where the a Russian unit went in um and the Cheshire Rebels they went to they ended up at a train yard I'm not sure if you're familiar with the story no they were all annihilated to the man um and it was like this four or five day thing and then they had to they had to they tried to bring some guys into belt to bail them out and they all got killed and it was just you know and this was in the 90s right yeah um so you'd think you think they learned but then look at the US Military we learn lessons and then we forget them it's true you know we I can't I can't sit here and say that we're you know we're not also guilty of the same thing ukrainians are perhaps better motivated oh yeah I got a lot more uh on the line yeah yeah like we can go to record Afghanistan like who gives a [ __ ] because we're gonna go back home to the US because my family isn't being threatened whereas they're like if I if I lose here my wife and my children in my way of life is literally going to be crushed Beyond existence so you know the yeah the motivation's a little higher on their end but you know the Russians have are leaning and having leaning heavily on artillery okay that is the traditionally Russian thing to do yeah um and it's worked well for them in the past um and it's it's working decently well for them still but it's not going to win the war I'm just going to stretch it out yeah it's just we're just going to grind and slog like we have been and that's that's that do you have any insight into Ukrainian domestic Small Arms production I know there are a number of interesting Ukrainian uh firearm systems out there their copy of the Tavor they've got their own indigenous Bullpup um did you see any of that is it substantial at all um I know the the 545 divorce is it's a pretty pretty large amount they're making domestically the malukes that weird Bullpup thing um I never got to play with one I saw them like from afar uh never got to play with one so I can't really talk on talk on that um you know they had the the Bullpup kits for the 74s those were kind of neat right um and that's I think that's becoming the way of the world if you look at you know Siri is doing that Africa is doing that Ukraine is doing that um I don't know why I mean I get the small package thing but I don't yeah it's just bullpups aren't yeah I mean I know you like the Famas so much but like they're just not yeah but that's because I'm biased yeah so I'm not really um I mean not a ton I know they're they're making it um they have the supplies to do it they've got the infrastructure um all their manufacturing used to be in the nanetsk and Don boss region and then now it's it's been moved since that's been in Crimea like all that's been moved out to West Tel Aviv and stuff we packed up factories and moved them west of the Euros yeah where did we hear that before I forget oh man um so we were setting up a a range to do some some sniper training and uh a drone found us and uh started calling in artillery honest and and we moved in out of there fast and obviously we're still alive but um you know that doesn't isn't always how it plays out um actually on uh this last previous Monday my friend Shimon was was killed in artillery strike he was a senior NCO with a unit out there and so that was that was kind of shitty but um that's what it is it is a war yep it's a real war yep real casualties and uh he was a guy that I was trying to help get you know um they're developing right now uh thermal regulating ghillie suits oh so you can do Visual and thermal yeah and so me and him have been in contact like weekly about trying to get him some uh you know figuring out how we can get that exported while still following itar which you know because there's all that stuff that goes on so I was like well I'm sure we can find a way um and then obviously now that's not really needed anymore unfortunately um well it certainly still is oh it's needed yeah but I mean you know my my personal uh connection to that's not right sorry standing is there's like a two-tier organization to Wagner you've got the core like the Blackwater types who are professional you could call mercenaries or professional military contractors and they've been working all over the world Wagner was deployed I think fairly extensively across parts of Africa as part of a you know resource Gathering influence building sorts of operations and then as the war heats up then you also have like the the Wagner cannon fodder core and they're sort of two discreet elements that fall into the same organization yeah yeah so the the Canon flutter side of it is definitely more recent within the last year development and don't forget they're also in Syria and they had a couple events there that we can talk about in one second um but yeah so they they had the like you said the professional soldiers who are actually pretty well trained and pretty well clipped and somebody a group of guys that like I would I wouldn't mind going up against but I would definitely say the Lord's prayer before I left the gate kind of like this could get hairy and maybe I won't make it home kind of dudes um but the the prisoner side of it those guys were Ken Potter I've heard stories and anecdotes from either captured guys or captured other or Russian personnel of them either been giving a rifle and like three mags in a grenade and being like save the grenade because that's for yourself go or they won't even give it on the firearm and they'll give them a shovel they'll say I need you to get to this trench and start or this area start digging so that way these guys can come up and take that and then you go forward and they Leap Frog not as an assault unit but as a forward defensive emplacement unit that's a new take on combat engineers yeah not one I'd ever want to be part of no no I don't think so so I mean yeah they're like I said they're they're for the professional side of them are are professional um do you have any insight into whether they actually like husbanded the professional soldiers and kept them safe and alive or were they kind of torn up in the meat grinder alongside everyone else they they definitely were torn up but they were given favoritism absolutely um you know if there was so they I think they call them the penal shock battalions or some sort of variation of that phrase it's a very Russian phrase yeah and the Russian military those guys that survived the wagon coup have now been rolled into the Russian army in the same role so nothing's changed for these guys except the patch on their shoulder and they're still not going to paycheck they're still you know and then the guys that are getting that are surviving are getting released back and there have been reports that I've heard about where uh most recently this last weekend weekend before there was a report of a dude went home somewhere in eastern Russia and killed six people so these Wagner these convicts are getting out taking all their money going home getting Hammer drunk and killing their neighbors so it's like was this a good idea I don't know reports are mixed but probably not a good idea yeah for all sorts of reasons yeah that wouldn't fly here all right so Wagner in Syria what what's the uh I think I know what you're referring to here yeah so there was an event I want to say it was 2016 or 2017 I might be completely wrong on the date but there was a group of I want to say it was their Rangers or 82nd supporting a SF unit securing a um uh oil refinery okay and a group of combatants we are we're getting extremely close to this Refinery and there's the Open Line communication between the Russian mod and the US government so that way it's a de-escalation area of like we stay out of this you stayed at it you know but this was a period where there were Russians acknowledge Russian presence in Syria as well as American presence in Syria and you can see how that gets touching and this is also back when Wagner was a non-agreed-upon contracting company so because Contracting firms are illegal in Russia right but so when they're not right except when they're not but then who they're like where's the money coming from and so only recently went last like month or so um the Kremlin has told everybody oh yes we are bankrolling these guys so technically they're not contractors they're part of the they're under the Ministries offense but they're not I don't know how that all really works out so the secret ingredient is corruption right the secret ingredient it's crime um and so you know we call we the US government calls our Russian hotline go hey guys um if this is you guys don't and they're like we don't have any guys and they're like okay if this is you guys tell us no we don't have to be in the area third time I guess they called like six times or something significant de-escalation attempt um they said no we don't have anybody there and we're talking um you know bdrms apcs tanks like there it was a full-on okay group of a couple hundred guys and then they all got [ __ ] schwepped by some Apaches all of them and some artillery and they just got absolutely just destroyed and come to find out it was the Syrian Army with Wagner oops and yeah oops and so if you look online and you can find some of these pictures of these medals I think there was like you know eight to ten maybe I don't know very small number of guys that survived and they got medals and the metals depict the Russians shooting I want to say sa-7s at Apaches and not you know and shooting them down which didn't happen because there was zero loss how many Apaches did got lost oh that's harsh I mean it's almost like we're technologically advanced I don't know what happened here I assume you're of the opinion that Ukraine will ultimately be victorious in this conflict I do uh but there is the fact that Russia just has more people so if we can if they're gonna grind it out like they're doing right now and they're having these defensive lines that are 10 miles deep or something like that that are a thousand miles long it's just an insane level of fortifications if the ukrainians can't get through that and push the Russians out and they just get bogged down they can get killed by artillery from afar and their the problem is is that Ukraine just doesn't have this they don't have millions of people it sounds like a World War one problem yeah this turns into a stalemate yep and who who bleeds out first from a stalemate yeah and and I think Ukraine will bleed out first because they just don't have the numbers it's a small country even with well I mean it's not that small right it's smaller in Russia yeah it's true even with the technological support I think from the West yeah and going back to the you know technology it only works if you have batteries kind of thing it's true you know if you only if you've got guys that pull the trigger it's fantastic but if you run out of dudes you run out of women that's all it is and and that's the thing that Russia is doing right now to keep those numbers down because we all you know there's a giant Gap in what they say is it what we say it is and somewhere in between is going to be the real number right um but a lot of the guys that they're losing they're not from around Moscow they're not from those areas right they're from the Far East where no these little Podunk towns where nobody if they don't have running water or like indoor plumbing yeah and so when those guys die the government doesn't care because it's not it's not there for the people the people don't see it the people in those little towns see it they don't have internet access so they can't talk about it you know so you can lose a million of those people yeah that's true and Putin doesn't give a [ __ ] you know I care as a humanitarian like that's a horrible thing to do like you shouldn't just go through a million lives away for something like this or for anything but they have the ability to do that that's true and I think once what's going to be their ultimate downfall is when they run out of those people if Ukraine still has guys left and they start pulling from the Moscow suburbs and the people that welcome to Vietnam then you're going to have that same problem uh you know same thing they had in the Soviet uh Invasion Afghanistan uh right you know because once you can see those gravestones and those Fallen guys and you know them it becomes you become anti-war very quickly I absolutely believe that so all right well uh thank you for joining us again it was fun to get some more insight into the the ongoing war in Ukraine uh hopefully you guys enjoyed it as well let me know down in the comments thanks for watching

Channel: Forgotten Weapons

Views: 315,238

Keywords: history, development, mccollum, forgotten weapons, design, disassembly

Id: kRqD92iYidg

Length: 24min 4sec (1444 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 12 2023