Who Told You About…Patrick and the ESV?

well good Monday morning I usually leap forward to do these and have a great deal of fun doing them this one is one I just don't want to do but I feel like I need to do it I've received a lot of questions over the years which Bible version is best so let me just be very plain here you can get to Jesus with any of them you know except for the wild paraphrases that are like the Cotton Patch version or the cocky version or one of those that's really done more for um for fun or for a political point or for a language exercise than it is for seriousness if you walk into a shop or you pull up Amazon or or a Christian book distributors or or Abe hooks or whatever you know shop local if you can you will find a wide variety of versions and any of those will get you to Jesus period did they just will but as to which are more accurate and which are more devoid of political cultural pressures that's that's a Live question I tend to use the NIV of 2011 which is a very good revision although there are portions of it that I think were very poorly translated that is true about every version I can name really more or less because some of them will have a lot more problems with the way they're translated than others but the NIV of 2011 the T NIV which is an excellent version the new revised Standard Version The New American Standard Version all of those are very accurate and relatively devoid of historical doctrinal prejudices or current cultural pressures but I cannot say that about all of them about a year and a half maybe two years ago it was short around there I read a um a book on by a historian Beth Allison bar on the making of biblical woman Womanhood now if you're not in the Baptist tradition this may not all of a sudden start ringing bells and I'm not a Baptist I love Baptist uh dearly with all my heart but I'm not one never have been one and don't plan to become one but the southern baptist church right now is going through upheavals about a couple of things one is how they've dealt with pastors who have been accused of abuse of any kind and the other is this massive making of biblical manhood and Womanhood in fact they have a council for biblical manhood and Womanhood that's what it's call and it is to get back to God's creation order of things where man is in charge and woman has a complimentary role just as important but not the same role she cannot do what a man can do now in our world of gender issues and alphabets and such that is not what we're talking about what complementarians believe is that men and women are equal in their value but that God has designed men for leadership in the church and that women can be suers in some ways but never take over the never become the lead Pastor let's say never become an elder of a church never these sort of and so and you may agree with them you may absolutely agree with them that's not the point of today the point of today is that between the Southern Baptist Church Crossway Publishers and a team of trans lators they produced a translation of the Bible that helps back up their position and that's a problem in uh the making of biblical Womanhood by Beth Allison bar chapter five I think is where she goes through the English Standard Version and of all the versions I use I don't use the English Standard Version because there are many changes in there which are absolutely unw warranted to make the Bible seem far more complementarian than egalitarian which I believe the scripture leans heavily toward egalitarianism if you don't know these words we're going to try to get you out of the weed egalitarianism that means that we are equal in God's eyes and that if a woman is able gifted in a certain role she may take that role if you'll notice with our Safe Harbor we have no problem with a woman leading communion a woman subbing for me if I cannot record a sermon and I'm on the road uh we have no problem with that at all we have no problem with equal roles for men and women that's called egalitarian and again the southern baptist view um this is the reason why for example they kicked out Saddleback Church one of the biggest churches you know it was it was a shocker is because Rick Warren believes that women can be pastors equal to men and that to them was just across you know no that's not biblical manhood and Womanhood so kick them out if you want to do a bunch of things on manhood and Womanhood uh yeah we can do that but that's not today today is setting up something I'm gonna get as much through it as I can and that is this is why I don't use the ESV the English Standard Version it is way too culturally and doctrinal tradition biased for me and many of them go many of the changes to the language go beyond the pale the Bible was written in Hebrew Greek and there are certain little sections that you can get in Syria caldan and such but Hebrew and Greek is basically it these languages are very very plain in the way that they are used and we understand how they are used so we understand that whenever God created Mankind we can use the word humankind to be more accurate today because we understand that when he made mankind male and female created he them that makes more sense than God created man M male and female created he them it we understand that whenever the Bible says Brothers he's not excluding the sisters and yet that's how the language sounds to an English speaker today or I would submit to a speaker of French German or the like in their own versions therefore we need to use Dynamic equivalence which means rather than word for word translation which Nobody Does even though they say they do you can't you cannot translate uh any language word for word it just doesn't work and if you've ever traveled around the world and used for example Google Translate or any of the apps you know this is true because with all of the AI in the world faux paw are the rule you know there there will be serious issues because it is just language has culture language has history behind it and so to to understand the context of what is being said you have to know the culture the context and like all right fair enough um when the ASV was written Scholars and names not only Dr bar but also Scott mcnight and many others came forward saying no this is not correct and they were roundly attacked by Crossways um employees but also by you Wayne gudum and by Kevin D young and others who were heads of this translating committee and by the way I think that they are probably very honest and they think they did exactly the right thing I don't think that they're evil I don't think that they ever intended to do anything wrong and I don't believe they think they did anything wrong you see this is important when you disagree with somebody even very very strongly can we not at least assume the other person is not the Devil Himself that would be nice wouldn't it oh you voted for that person instead of that person you are evil they're the devil you're a bad person oh you have this position on the First Amendment Second Amendment Third Amendment fourth well then you must be an awful terrible person and you want everybody to to die and babies to starve what it is um it's insane but that's the way we go at each other so by naming guden and D young I'm not trying to shame them at all because I don't think they should be shamed I think they're Scholars they did the best they could but they brought their cultural biases with them everybody does but it went beyond the line for me with the ESV and so whenever people wrote up the issues they got attacked and in fact one of the professors at Ohio State University answered back because here's one of the things that complementarians say they say the Bible has always been complementarian and the church has always been complementarian where men only take the leadership role the top leadership role assistant sometimes is accepted for women but the top is always male and that the idea of a galarian ISM only came about in the medieval time and that is absolutely not true grp um Dr Sarah Butler the King George III professor of British history at Ohio State University says the Southern Baptist Church argues that complementarianism is grounded in the Bible but as a historian in medieval history bar doc Allison Beth Allison bar using her training as a historian bar debunks this mythology highlighting how women shaped early Christianity through their roles as Mystics and theologians up into the Protestant reformation and that is correct that is absolutely correct and we can go through the history of this and other Monday morning messages but because of the format of this we don't want to wear out people or do long form videos just on this we've done long form videos and half of you were so excited and so amazed and wonderful and half of you were just no we don't want them long so be aware my job is to make all of you equally dissatisfied all right here we go is it an honest biblical interpretation I believe it was done by honest people but it was not an honest interpretation it was shaped too much by their by their prejudices for example the only person called named as a deacon in scripture is Phoebe it's in Romans chapter 16 verse1 in the ESV though she's not called a deacon she's called a servant now does the word Deacon means servant absolutely but since King James refused to use that word because he already had an office of Deacon that was very different than scripture but still he already had one and wanted it maintained in the English language we're stuck with the word Deacon diakonos they just transliterated the Greek so if we're stuck with it now now we understand what it is why change it back to Servant whenever you're talking about the only person named as a deacon and she happens to be a woman so you make her a servant by the way I don't like when versions go Deaconess there's not a diminutive there's not a female form of the term the term is the same for male or female and you'll notice in the English language we are not usually saying anymore a widow or a widower we're saying Widow we're not saying a comedian or comedian or an actor or an actress we're beginning to understand that the diminutive form or the female form those are not the same but often confused that that we don't need that we don't need to make we don't need to have a feminized form of it a mized formul masculinized form of it um there are others for example uh 1 Timothy Chapter 5 and the revised gend version says you know have younger widows marry bear children rule their households rule their households that's what most translations will say because that's really what the world say what the the manuscripts say she is you know queen of her domain there she's ruling the household but not in the ESV in the ESV they manage their household there's no reason to put that word there that's not what the word usually is for it's not translated that way but that's what they do um when it comes to Junia she is only well known to the apostles not high highly regarded among the apostles we will have a lot to say about Junia in future episodes maybe on Monday morning where I'm still working on where how do I do this long form or do I do it in sermons about women and Ministry roles but it goes like this for forever uh it it just there's a there's a men only Club basically there were no women on the Translating committee for the English Standard Version none um I believe there were 95 contributors and there were no women there at all and if you look at the oversight Community uh committee which is 13 men 10 of them have published and spoken very openly for many years before they started doing this that they were complementarians that they believe that men held the superior role in leadership in church and in the family by the way they do not as a rule carry this over into society they're not opposed to having a woman being a senator or a president I would assume uh or the principal of the local high school it's only in the church and in the family that the majority of complementarians that I've met that's where they believe that these rules apply but 10 out of 13 of the oversight committee are Fierce complementarians that have been known to be so for a long time two of the others are most likely because they have written some things but it's not quite as obvious by the way at least one participant very prominent participant in the English study VI uh version of the Bible just said no uh no I'm not I'm not going to do this anymore uh gospel scholar Robert Stein refused refused to let his name stand as a contributor to the ESV Study Bible because he saw the changes made to his work gudam had changed his notes Stein was instrumental in translating The Book of Luke that was his his domain and he did it honestly and hard and gudam came along and just changed it to make it more complimentaries cannot stand this is simply not true you've changed the meaning it's no longer true to the text let that sink in for a bit and Stein refused to have his name on the committee list now he he's he he went off of it by the way Crossway Publishers felt so strongly about this when they published the ESV they said this is now the permanent text of the ESV it will never be changed they said that a lot they've actually made 52 small changes to it uh and I I think the 2016 version don't quote me on that but I'm really close you can find out easy with Google search or bang or whatever you use duck ducko um Crossway by the way at the time of the Translating uh I'm sorry the publishing well and the Translating of the ESV had a strict policy I believe that they still do but I don't know for sure that they would not publish any books that disagreed with the complementarian position so if I wanted to publish a book uh through Crossway saying I believe that this is where complementarianism is in error and I think these verses teach egalitarianism that men and women are equal in the sight of God equally gifted and that if a woman is gifted and trained and able to do a job she should be able to do it now that doesn't mean that all women can do all jobs because all men can't do all jobs a lot of men can't be pastors a lot of men would be disasters as any form of leaders in Ministry and the same for women so we're talking about gifting training able you know they've received a call from God a call from the community they can serve Crossway wouldn't publish it because it's galarian ISM now I don't know if that policy has changed somebody can let me know um we've got so much more to go here um let me just give you one more example because I'm way long I'm way long and 1 Corinthians 11 which is a really difficult passage for us to get our head around uh in 1 Corinthians 11:10 the scripture is is very very plain here the King James version says for this cause ought the woman to have power over her head power over her head in Modern English we would translate that to have authority over her head well the revised standard version of 1881 did a paraphrase saying that she should have a sign or um a symbol of authority over her head there's absolutely no justification for that in any manuscript I like the new Revis Standard Version but the revised standard version of 1881 had real issues and that's the one that was really big when I was growing up uh there are no sign or symbol language anywhere in the Greek it reverses the meaning of the the whole thing instead of saying a woman has authority over her head it says a woman must have a sign that she is under Authority on her head and that's why in many churches they're veiled or they have uh they have to wear hats or uh these little caps they always look to me like little doilies but I I don't mean to be disrespectful it's it's done honestly and it's done as a sign that they are under Authority but that's not what the passage says it says that she had has authority over her head there has not been found in any other example of the Greek language where that phrase having authority over her head could be made to to mean that she has to have a sign that she's under Authority ever guess which one the English Standard Version went with now we can do more on this if you're interested but I I just wanted to say there are some vers I don't use and that's because the bias is just too much and as a Parting Shot hey I use NIV all the time but they still pull this whole thing about how uh in my mortal body is this and how that that that kind of reeks of original sin uh when it doesn't need to so they all have issues but they will all get you to Jesus they will all get you there keep your eyes open and have a look at three or four versions if ever you find that you're you you've got a position let's just make sure that the text agrees with you that's what I'm still doing I'm still in process because as like Paul and I'm nowhere near his level but I like him have not arrived I'm still seeking I'm still going I'm still trying asking seeking knocking that's what he asked us to do isn't it Jesus gave us that and said that'll make him happy so ask seek knock I'll see you next week bye

Channel: Our Safe Harbor Church

Views: 1,079

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Id: sRogYlV5ap0

Length: 21min 7sec (1267 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 29 2024