"While We Watched" Documentary Spotlights Journalist Ravish Kumar's Fight for Truth in Modi's India

this is democracy Now democracynow.org The War and Peace report I'm Amy Goodman joined by democracy Now co-host narmeen Sheikh hi Norman hi Amy and Welcome to our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world we begin Today's Show looking at press freedom in India often referred to as the world's most populous democracy under Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi modi's head of the Hindu nationalist BJP party he was once banned for nearly a decade from the United States on charges he did not intervene in a massacre against Muslims in 2002 in the Indian state of Gujarat which he headed but he's now being embraced by President Biden and other world leaders in June Biden hosted Modi for a state dinner last week Modi was the guest of honor at Francis Bastille Day Parade as French president Emmanuel macron ruled out the red carpet for him as well meanwhile back home the leaders of 26 opposition political parties in India announced a new alliance this week that aims to oust Modi in next year's General election coalitions called the Indian national developmental inclusive alliance with the acronym India Modi called the new alliance a quote hardcore corruption convention all this comes is one of India's last bastions of free media NDTV has been taken over by the Indian billionaire Gautam adani who is from modi's home state of Gujarat believed to have close ties to the Prime Minister he's the richest man in India the third richest in the world now a stunning new documentary captures what happened when one of India's most prominent TV journalists ndtv's executive editor and long time anchor ravish Kumar reported critically on modi's Hindu nationalist policies the film resonates far beyond India it's called while we watched this is the trailer [Music] what's happening on TV today it's not journalism [Music] every channel Echoes the same time this is a big story and nobody's running it how dare you criticize our country we will murder you in the absence of information conversations better change before it's too late they want to break the country this will not be tolerated somebody is following us since when will they shut us down you Pakistan lover you traitor better than the entire world ravish Kumar you swine I'm warning you is this the India you dreamed of maybe I should quit should we only do reports that governments let us I have the same doubt [Applause] [Music] [Applause] in one country where there's so much hate on TV the key is anti-national you think I'm a traitor we're not Traders we choose to remain silent it will cost us the truth that's the trailer for the new documentary while we watch some have called the film an elegy for press freedom in India it comes to U.S theaters this week for more we're joined in New York City by its director vinay Shukla and by its subject ravish Kumar the acclaimed Indian journalist and author who is a senior executive editor of NDTV India where he hosted a number of programs including the Channel's Flagship weekday show in 2019 he received the Ramon magsese award often referred to as the Asian Nobel Prize we welcome you both to democracy Now I want to begin with Vanessa and if you could talk about your decision to make this film about ravish who you followed for some two years and in so doing being a kind of fly on the wall in The Newsroom and in his home we see what happens to press Freedom it's a kind of microcosm in India talk about this journey you took with ravish uh I think in the beginning when I used to uh you know when I used to watch the news there was so much noise uh I will speak to my friends very often and they would say that they have stopped watching the news completely because it's not good for their mental health so on and so forward and I used to find that very distracting a very concerning because news is a system is a major system of public information at least in India and you know I believe we come to the news because we want to learn something that will make our lives better so when so many people are switching off from the news that was something very concerning for me uh in India just to give you context you know fact-based reportage has really taken a backseat a back seat and there is uh you know opinion and and debate shows are the norm uh so when I came across I remember watching one of ravish's broadcast and very often you have news anchors who tell their audiences that we are here to serve you and the audience is number one uh ravish was actually scolding his audiences that uh you should be doing better please stop watching TV and that's the only way uh we can all get better uh I find I I found that to be ironical that here was somebody in the news business who was asking people to stop watching the news and he was also being very very vulnerable on television uh you know he was wondering aloud if there was an audience out there for him uh so I really found that to be a good starting point because I think over a period of time we have all become very desensitized to the crisis that people who are working within the news industry are facing uh and with ravish I thought I had a good protagonist to try and investigate that as you said that uh now uh Indian television news channels are dominated principally uh by debates and also extremely aggressive anchors I'd like to go to a clip of one of India's most popular news show hosts arnab goswami I believe that being a nationalist is a prerequisite to being a journalist and this is a clip from a 2016 segment featuring an interview with Omar Khaled a student activist and former leader of the democratic students union at jnu a university that's considered India's Harvard he was one of the most prominent voices in the protests against the execution in 2013 of afzal Guru who was crit convicted of the 2001 Indian Parliament attack the protests also criticized the execution of kashmiri separatist leader who was hanged in 1984. Omar Khalid has since been accused under the so-called unlawful activities prevention act so this is arnab interviewing Umar Khalid look at your poster which argues for self-determination for kashmiri is the same line that Pakistan takes today look at your statements which say that absal guru's wishes will be fulfilled look at look at your slogans look at your look at your pathetic look at your pathetic slogans that's called for India's destruction you cannot be on my soil holding an Indian passport carrying out education that is subsidized by the Indian taxpayer and have the temerity to say that I will provide a platform for people who say that we will work relentlessly till India is destroyed luckily our statements that label India a spiteful State look at your statement that says that the lasting call of Azadi Rings loud in the heart of every kashmiri you are a secessionist under the argument of death penalty and for far too long ladies and gentlemen in this country for far too long in this country under the God for far too long in this country and I will not be interrupted at this point of time by him so I if you could talk about how representative this is of the broader media landscape of uh Indian television news programs I mean good man thank you for having me here a lot of viewers who watch my show who are follows uh your work and they have sent a huge regard to your work having said that uh uh this clip you uh just showed about arnab goswami uh in the beginning he was the one but now we have many more like him uh entire Indian news channel systems have become uh there are many news channels hundreds of news channels but they are the same anchors are doing the same kind of job what you just showed to your viewers that how arnab goswami goswami is shouting and alienating a young boy and delegitimizing him from his citizenry from his right to speak and write to uh to stand for anything he believes the that is wrong ah this media is we have to very clear that this media is Indian media is not a is the biggest Story one of the prominent story of any Democratic world now and this is not a routine media decline in story uh see the this destruction is on a is very huge on a vast scale and after this destruction this media has turned into a weapon the weaponization of Indian media is something to uh to worry uh to worry about and this media is day and day in day out going uh branding people say that you are traitor you are pro Pakistani you are anti-national anti-hindu all things in the name of religion and in the service of prime minister so uh though we do have a kind of media but we do not have media where you have any kind of alternative voices so this crisis is not a routine crisis we have to be very careful that in no sober Society can afford to have a kind of Rogue media which is so weaponized which is so communal hatred spreading that anchors are they are just not loud and shrilled this is just facade they are their voices are Laden with such hatred against one community in the name of religion they are inciting masses they have become weapon of mass destruction explained you were the senior executive editor at NDTV then Gotham adani has taken it over explain how NDTV was different from all these other television news channels it was different in many ways NDTV did put up a brave fight pruneroy and radhika Roy they were also framed with many charges uh but they could not save their Channel yes they faced lot of resource problem but they never intervened in the editorial work or our job so they tried to the last of their core to save this Channel and to uh to have a space where you can where you can raise alternative voices you can raise questions we can raise you can give a platform to many peoples like you just had a headline of uh of Northern India the danger of waterborne disease Indian media has left this kind of stories once prime minister returned from France and they are again doing their agenda and their in the service of their politics so NDTV was different in many ways and yes you rightly said it was the last Bastion of Indian media now you do not have one channel which is doing differently you have main number of channels who all are doing the same content and that content is communal hatred with full of falsehood I want to go back to the documentary while we watched in this clip um ravish you are talking with reporter sarab Shukla about the challenges that you're all facing working at NDTV at the time I've been losing sleep over this there seems to be no way out this is a new move they want to make sure we have no reach We are Becoming irrelevant at least here at NDTV we've got each other's back it won't be the same elsewhere I can keep talking about what's wrong in the world but people's ideologies have changed so much how are we going to reach them there are no easy solutions sir this is our life and I want to go to another clip from all we watched where ravish Kumar bids farewell to a departing colleague then we see him in conversation with his wife with in the car it's my last day today is there anyone left in your department a few of them are still hanging on yeah I am just worried for your safety I don't know how to deal with this pressure foreign but everything is standing against you it's getting harder for me to see you like this Despair and despondency and it strikes I don't know what to do anymore that's ravish Kumar talking to his wife and the car ravish if you can talk about your decision to resign I mean every night what was it at nine o'clock millions of people around India tuned in to hear what you had to say also you're reporting on the streets as you brought the voices out of people talk about that decision you came to and what Modi had to do with it the prime minister uh it was very tough to uh to reach a decision like this because I've been born and brought up professionally on that floor all itself when Gotham madani took over NDTV it was very clear to me that the the journalism of NDTV is over now and that decision was proved after that when Hindenburg report came out and and still NDTV went out to uh make a nine documentaries praising the achievement of Narendra modi's governments during nine years so I know knew that you cannot see uh Gotham adani as an independent businessman yes he may be but he is seen in the public that he is an extension oppositions blame alleged that this man is a part of a prime minister's politics so yes he said that there will be a difference between editorial and management but now we can see that where this program channel is going on and before adani Emmy ministers and spokesperson from the bharti janatha party use started boycotting us they did not appear in my my show and my others colleague show now one ministers go on record and is reported by a news laundry if I am correctly rephrasing it she says that is a prom she is a prominent Minister she's saying that we I have not spoken to you for long now I believe there is a regime change that's where she is making it officially that we were boycotting you now we are not boycotting because there is a regime change or what is this regime change Prana Roy is gone and adani is in so it was very very clear to me though it was very hard and it was very heartbreaking decision for me to leave NDTV and yes but I had to take this decision I could not work under that man you explain uh first of all what happened to uh pranoi Roy and radhika Roy who are the founders of ndtvu show a little bit of that in the film and then explain why the press in India is referred uh derisively to as godi media explain what that means yes uh uh I'm not very privy to all kind of informations and stories which porno and radhika gone through I believe they should tell their own story but yes they fought a lot of cases and even this man you showed he covered live and and spoke many bad things about him when his house was being readied it was covered by live covered by but uh yes they they faced a lot and I can sense that uh they have a house uh in front just besides NDTV office they must be feeling uh sad when they come out of their house uh but they have to tell their story but Indian media we have to be very careful we cannot be casual about this uh this media is is has become very dangerous right now this is shielding uh government our Prime Ministers every day they are not giving space to a position this media has become so anti a position so anti-minorities anti-muslims you cannot imagine the scale I am talking about I can give n number of examples to elaborate elaborate my point but uh I still think that Indian media is gone uh we have many things in India we still have many robot system which makes us uh hopeful that ultimately democracy Will Survive but this but we do not have uh media in in a in a true or partial journalistic sense I mean can you explain I mean given the fact uh you know the the description both in the film as well as uh what you both have been saying uh the media climate in India is there any Prospect at all uh that your film will be released there has and has it been shown at all even in private screenings okay so that I think there is uh it's a two-part answer uh I have received a lot of love from people wherever I go out whenever there's a post about the film people are really really waiting for the film to come out uh and I you know the film premiered in Toronto last year we've been winning Awards since every time I talk about uh you know having one or an award or you know screen the film internationally people are always like when will you bring it back home so uh there is a fair amount of demand amongst the audiences I haven't so far had any offer from a distributor to put the film out uh uh which is which of course is challenging uh on my previous film I made a very very uh political film before this and you know I was able to release that in theaters and you know it ran for many weeks so I'm I am hopeful that I'll be able to do that because ultimately I made this film for audiences back home uh you know I made this film for my cousin for my parents for my for my friends this film is made in a language in which I believe that I'll be able to communicate and speak to them so I'd really like to show them the film and I'm really really hopeful ahead of prime minister Narendra modi's official state visit to the White House last month the committee to protect journalists and other organizations ran a full page ad in the Washington Post highlighting what they call the Press Freedom crisis in India the ad said in part quote India is the world's largest democracy yet it's one of the world's most dangerous countries for the media unquote during modi's visit he and Biden held a joint news conference Modi was questioned by Wall Street Journal reporter Sabrina Siddiqui who's believed to be the first journalist to ask Modi a question at a news conference since 2015. this was the interaction Mr Prime Minister India has long pride in itself as the world's largest democracy but there are many human rights groups who say that your government has discriminated against religious minorities and sought to silence its critics as you stand here in the East room of the White House where so many world leaders have made commitments to protecting democracy what steps are you and your government willing to take to improve the rights of Muslims and other minorities in your country and to uphold free speech we have always proved the Democracy can deliver and when I say deliver this is regardless of caste Creed religion or gender there's absolutely no space for discrimination following that news conference The Wall Street Journal reporter Sabrina Siddiqui faced an intense online harassment campaign by supporters of Modi ravish Kumar it's something you are very familiar with first were you surprised that she got to ask this question and of course underlying all of this is your views of what's happening to India under Modi right now as he's being hailed by world leaders what you see happening at home if you could respond to all of that yes I was uh surprised and I thought that whoever arranged this press conference done a great maneuvering job because our sorry to say that our prime minister who comes from a leading democracy in the world hasn't done any press conference in nine years of his government and he came to power in the protects that earlier prime minister is not speaking he's not a vocal man the Prime Minister gave a number of his speeches but he could not hold one press conference and take questions and I was happy because for one reason ah this is the one prominent questions which which is chasing our prime minister to ask for many years and finally someone had got chance and she asked that questions this is the question he is running away and in many ways uh yes this question her question was representative of many questions which we are raising uh that uh communal vicious communal media has become so uh so weaponized and the communal hatred it's so high in India and there is a reason behind this anchors have a legitimacy I it rules have the legitimacies political support administrative support and the question was very right and I do not think that question was answered very well could you uh the question of communalism in India Muslims constitute about 14 of the country's population 200 million Muslims or more live in India why are Muslims the target repeatedly of the Indian press uh since 2014 ah nobody had idea and if you look at the Muslims organizations even they did not say anything which should be counted like this ah they were very quiet and but suddenly this media turned into a communal machine ah it has become a factory of communal head trade and anchors changed from within and they started spreading communal hatred even Supreme Courts I mean in many occasion have a strictly criticized this kind of media and asked question government that can't we stop this kind of media but nothing has been done if you serve any news channel even right now you will find one or other channel is doing communal agenda so it has been legitimized by me media media job was to question this kind of communal agenda but it has become a direct tool to spread this kind of communal agenda and a scale is very vast I am not talking about Indian newspapers I am only talking about here about about Indian television uh shameful there is no other issues are being covered but every day every anchor has come up with some kind of communal Grievances and giving voices to majoritarianism so this kind of Television a journalism we have and we are not talking about this ah individuals have suffered because of that there are many incidents where people on the people on the street thought that they have a support of Television they have normalized such things then even at home Elders have discussing and legitimizing this kind of communal devices to in their younger generation so no institution is there to stop when lockdown happened during kovid suddenly these channels started blaming one group of Muslims organizations and many were arrested targeted and there were many many places we had an incident like that people went on the street and start checking eye identity card of fruit sellers Vegeta vegetable sellers that show your identity card if you are Muslims you are not allowed to sell here so it was a kind of atmospheres which was created by this television channels and after many months many courts have said that television channels have done great damage to this country and and this kind of fake news fakery has been propagated by the news channel so you have many official accounts of their communal agenda and criticized by the Supreme Court I am not seeing alone so ravish explain uh you know you've said that trolls have become the authority in India and authorities have become trolls in India since 2014 in other words since Modi came to power explain the power of these trolls and how much uh false news disinformation is circulated on WhatsApp and the effects of that Emmy when trolling is started in Indian public life many uh people who are active in public is fair uh used to tell me that these things will come and go but I could sense that these are not social trolls this these kind of trolls are not coming from random part of the society but it has a support it has institutional support and now they have become Authority in itself if they start trolling you you will find that cases are being filed against you you will find that police have reached to your doorstep I know one female journalist whose uh who had to leave her Town who who was very bright young female journalist who was promoted a few days back but because of trolls she was fired and she lost her job and she was is brought to police station where these goons were asking her to apologize and she had to apologize in front of the police so so we you this is a the these trolls are not in normal trolls they have the power of the day power of the government they are they they may be invisible but their impact is so visible on your career on your life or your mental health health that you cannot imagine and I am not yes I am the one case but many female journalists are suffering from their sufferings are not being told and they are not but yes ah these tools have been successfully marginalized any journalist any female journalists their state of mental health and in are in Greater distress so they have the power they have the political power and they have the legitimacy to drag you in any uh any controversy and they can do whatever they want to do with you you end the film with um ravish winning the Ramon maxisi award in the Philippines considered the Asian Nobel Prize the significance of this for you ravish and what you're doing now as you resign from your position as this renowned Prime Time host on NDTV as it was taken over by the richest man in India allied with Modi uh uh I am doing uh my I'm running my own YouTube channels and yes uh I've got huge supports from my viewers and but I I have to say one thing that uh that we have been sentenced a kind of professional Exile in our country uh many journalists like me are not getting jobs and they are they have been isolated so yes if uh if there there was not if we had not a YouTube we would have not survived in this profession so ah I am grateful to YouTube that I am earning my bread from that but I do not know when this channel will be killed with one notice or one notification and the uncertain uncertainty of this YouTube channel is great uh is so vast but yes I'm grateful that and we all are many people like me are earning and their bread but we have been sentenced to professional exile over to vinayas we wrap up I I want to ask you how covering and living with almost ravish kumara's family his community at NDTV for two years changed you you're a well-known filmmaker but what this has meant for you I was honestly very very surprised when I got there and I started shooting because there's a public perception that you have ravish is a very fairly well-known anchor and you know people are polarized people have very charged opinions about him so when I began shooting I was thinking that you know he'd have a team of 10 people and you know a lot of people around he was operating from a very small room with with a very very small team and uh I was also very very impressed as to put it very simply by the amount of a rigor and work that goes on within uh within the the entire Newsroom I am very very invested in processes and when I was there at NDTV and on that floor uh I was suddenly given a very clean insight into how much it takes from people to be able to do the job they do you know journalism has been dehumanized so much in the last in the last decade also and for sure there have been some bad agents but the disinformation campaign against journalism has been so strong that we have forgotten to understand the process of processes of Journalism my film is you know my love letter to journalism it it shows you the cost the emotional and financial costs that journalists have to pay to be able to do what they're doing interested that we have a larger conversation around the systems of Journalism you know very often we tend to focus for example today we have ravish with us and you know it's the story of NDTV but for as long as we are concerned about one individual one organization one government uh it's a very short-term myopic view of things it's fundamental for me to understand at least in India and even across the world what are the systems that we are building that will help us build a better journalism you know vinay we're gonna have to leave it there but I want to encourage people to see this profound movie Vanessa Shukla is the director of Huawei watched and ravish Kumar is a claimed Indian journalist and author who's featured in the film he was the senior executive editor of NDTV India where he hosted and Prime Time Nightly News um the flagship weekday show tonight I'll be moderating a panel with ravish and vinay after the film is shown at New York City's IFC Center

Channel: Democracy Now!

Views: 845,569

Keywords: Democracy Now, Amy Goodman, News, Politics, democracynow, Independent Media, Breaking News, World News

Id: TZRuxFnkVm8

Length: 35min 54sec (2154 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 20 2023