Which Way Will the Water Go? (ft. Steve Mould)- Smarter Every Day 226

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👍︎︎ 42 👤︎︎ u/goat-worshiper 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

Hey u/MrPennywhistle! In the wonderful world of turbomachinery we often think about these sort of problems, so we use the "relative frame" perspective. i.e. the perspective of someone sitting on the rotor/water wheel thing, which I have made here. It demonstrates the illusion that you see in the stationary frame quite well. Thanks for the great video!

👍︎︎ 12 👤︎︎ u/radiolite 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

I find syllogisms a great way to ensure you are both speaking the same language.

(Syllogism: an instance of a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given or assumed propositions (premises))

For the simpler version of events with taps facing outwards:

Your Argument:

  1. A water particle will travel based on the forces it experiences at the end of the pipe.
  2. Here the water has forces from water pressure - being pushed out of the pipe and angular momentum from it’s “sidewards velocity” due to the spinning of the tap.
  3. Therefore the water particle will travel in the direction of these two and head against the spin of water.

Steve’s Argument:

  1. The snapshot of water is affected both by the travel of water and by the changing output location of water.
  2. The initial travel of the water is negligible compared to the motion of the tap at determining which way the water travels. (Intuition cited but likely has a stronger reasoning)
  3. As the tap is moving clockwise the water will match that but lag behind as the rotation of the tap takes priority.
  4. The snapshot of water will show the water trailing the motion of the tap.

Here comparing your steps on the matter you can see that both of your arguments are sound (valid, correct) but come to different conclusions - yours talking about an individual water particle and Steve’s about the more general snapshot of water.

Writing out arguments in this way both makes you understand your own argument better, as well as making It easier to make that jump at the end of the video you mentioned of both understanding the others perspective and it makes it much easier to fully hear and digest their argument now that you are speaking in the same language.

👍︎︎ 5 👤︎︎ u/DevilsApologist 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

I think the reason for the illusion is that when the water particle leaves the nozzle it has tangential velocity equal to the nozzle which is angular velocity x radius of the nozzle, this velocity doesn't change (ignoring air resistance) as it moves inwards or outwards along the radial line.

When the nozzle points out, this velocity is less than an imaginary particle along the radial line at the same distance from the centre as the drop, so the drop appears to lag behind that imaginary line. When the nozzle points inwards the drop velocity is greater than a particle along the radial line at equal distance from the centre, so it appears to pull infront of the imaginary line.

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/roland_cube 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

I'm actually in the middle of making a fluid Simulation of this! I posted a mesh mockup if it yesterday on this sub. I found be done simulating and rendering in a week or two.

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/chargedcapacitor 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

Pretty cool demonstration of the Coriolis Effect (at least I think). I’m surprised he didn’t mention it.

👍︎︎ 6 👤︎︎ u/Zorcron 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

I've always loved the little heart to hearts at the end of Destin's video. The backwards bicycle was my favorite of these but this is definitely up there

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/SwoleMedic1 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

This video reminded me of an unproductive argument we had based off of one of your videos. Link

Here it was indeed another instance of “Disagreements with the British” with me (the Brit) in the wrong - not yet aware that not every country runs on a 24 hour clock and arguing that you were filming at 2.a.m. when 2.p.m. was the true time.

I find (as other users here have mentioned) that syllogisms are helpful to resolve these issues. Writing out arguments in terms of logical steps and premises really helps the process of argument and allows both sides to be

On our debate (Link.) :

1.I’ve either misread your tone or I don’t understand how tix clocks work.

2.If the former - my previous points still stand; I genuinely love the content you produce but you shouldn't feel like you have to sacrifice your own wellbeing and sleep in order to satiate consumers wishes for frequent content.

3.If the latter - I am not quite sure how I read it wrong (It is a 24 hour clock with one light showing 1 unit in the 10 hours, hours, 10 minutes and minutes columns right?)

Here my third point is where the error lies with Destin’s tix clock not being a 24 hour clock but instead being a 12 hour clock - a kind that I was aware of but didn’t see as common (me being a Brit).

Forming arguments in these ways are yes impractical for everyday conversation but can help ease conversations that cause you to travel the pacific and for Steve to build two complex contraptions.

A great learning experience though!

Also I think you went slightly hard on yourself with that end speech - it is not “imperative” that you interact and sink time into understanding every troll on reddit or twitter when many are just that. Yes if you want to have a productive conversation with someone online it is imperative you understand their point of view but with comments like mine 6 months ago I don’t think it should be “imperative” for you to respond and understand how they think.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/Trial-Name 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies

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👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/[deleted] 📅︎︎ Oct 14 2019 🗫︎ replies
Captions
- Hey it's me Destin. Welcome back to Smarter Everyday. This is Steve Mould. - Hi. - You've seen him, you've seen his face, when he did the chain, what's the deal? - Well, it's called The Mould Effect. - [Destin] Is it really? - [Steve] Honestly? Because yeah, some scientists named it that in a paper. - I have always wanted something named after me. It would be something stupid, if it was like the Sandlin, anyway, long story short, we are in an argument. And we are gonna settle it with internet physics videos, which is the appropriate way to settle an argument. If you've never seen a nerd fight, they look just like this. Steve has proposed the building of a spiny water apparatus and he's telling me he thinks the water's gonna sling out of it in a certain direction. Now, Steve seems like a pretty smart guy, if you can look past the British accent and all that, but I just don't agree with it. Somewhere along the argument we decide that it's going to take a phantom camera to figure out exactly what's going to happen with this device. But at the end of the discussion, I started to think that maybe Steve has already built this thing and I'm just getting played. Anyway, this is how that discussion ended. - We made an agreement. And what did you say about being in Alabama? - If you make a handshake in Alabama-- - Yeah. - It's a contract, all right. - And we already did this, right? - Shut up. (Steve laughing) I am on a train in London, about to go see Steve Mould. I have the high speed camera. I've been tricked, I'm pretty sure. Whenever I visit someone whose videos I watch on YouTube, I'm always really excited to see where they film in real life. Okay, so this is the studio, right? (laughs) It looks so much bigger on YouTube. - [Steve] Yeah, where's the red pipe? - [Destin] Everyone always says it looks smaller but- Once we were in Steve's back garden, we set up the slow motion camera and finalized the terms of our disagreement. - To state the question simply, if you spin it and then you take a snapshot, what does the snapshot look like? - [Destin] Okay, so which direction is it spinning? - So your description was this. You said that, "The water would come out, and then it would kind of go like this, and it would be back here like that," okay? So we take a snapshot and it looks like that. - [Destin] Well, I think that happens but I think it also goes in the direction of rotation. - Okay, this is just a way to think about it in two steps, okay? Because if the question is too complicated, just simplify it and then you might get there. Okay so this, the jets are just coming out like this, okay? - [Destin] Okay. - And so we're going to spin it this way. And then now, maybe, you have an intuitive understanding of what's going to happen. And when you take a snapshot, Destin, what do you think? - [Destin] So we have angular momentum. Angular momentum there, right? - [Steve] Yeah. - [Destin] And so I would think that as a particle comes out here, it has some sidewards velocity. That's the term, right? Sidewards? - Sidewards, yeah. - [Destin] Yeah, yeah, yeah (laughs). - [Steve] Let's say tangential. - [Destin] Well, I'm just gonna say sidewards. (Steve laughing) I'm from Alabama. So it's got some sidewards direction here. And so I think what's going to happen is you're going to see a curve get thrown out like that. - Okay, so you think that it's spinning in this direction, the curve is going to go like that? - [Destin] Yeah, I think so. - Okay (laughs). - [Destin] Am I wrong? - That's like the opposite of most people's intuition. - [Destin] Why? - Because, okay well, most people would say, look, it's going to come out here, and it's going to trail behind. - [Destin] Oh. - That'd be most people's intuition. - [Destin] Well, I think it's- - Well, should we see what happens? Let's do this then. Like this is the simpler puzzle so let's just try this one. - [Destin] Yeah okay, let me set the phantom up. (Destin laughing) Am I wrong? - I think so, yeah. - [Destin] You think I'm wrong? - I think you're wrong even about this (laughs) the simpler version. - Okay so here we go, the first question is what happens with just straight water coming out? And you think what's going to happen? - So I think you're going to get this curve of water that trails the motion of the spouts. - But, yeah, I think it's going to trail the motion of the spout, but it still has motion going in the direction of rotation. - It does, but, it does-- - You're trying to make me look stupid, is what you're doing. - [Steve] I just gonna get absolutely soaked. (both laughing) - [Destin] I'm going to get my feet up. (both laughing) Okay I'm ready. - [Steve] Ready, Ready? - [Destin] Yeah. (Steve laughing) Oh that's pretty. - All right, there you go. - [Destin] That's really pretty. Okay, so let's take a look at that slow motion, and see why Steve and I both agree, and disagree. - [Steve] So yeah, it's kind of, it's trailing. That's what I meant by trailing. It's behind the direction of motion, right? - [Destin] Okay, granted. Granted. But any individual particle is actually going out and away. - Yeah, it is yeah. - So I'm not wrong. (both laughing) So this is a language problem. If you look at it from the snapshot view, you could say it's trailing. But I'm an American, and I think about what that particle is seeing and experiencing on its own, and Steve's wrong, in a British sorta always right, kind of way. As water exits the spout, let's track any one droplet, and try to draw what it does. There are two things happening here. Number one, it's being shot out of the spout. That gives it an initial velocity in this direction. Number two, it's being slung around the wheel by rotation, which means when it exits the spout, it also has this velocity going in this direction. Now that we have those two components laid out, if you add the arrows together, that gives you the final direction of the water when it leaves the pipe. And if you'll notice, it's not actually trailing the pipe, it's moving in a straight line forward. If you were to draw a circle in your mind around any drop that's on the screen right now, and follow it, you'll see that it's moving in a straight line forward from the direction that it left the pipe. It looks like it's trailing, but it's not. That's an optical illusion. - So, we're now going to have the water jets firing into the center. - [Destin] You made this just to, just to get on to me. - [Steve] Yes. This was just to get onto your YouTube channel. (both laughing) - [Destin] Well it worked. (both laughing) So, my guess is, if we follow the same logic that we had before, and we have the rotational velocity, omega, times the radius, 'r', then that's going to make this go in this direction. But the water jet is going to be coming up and at you like this, so I would expect the snapshot. Oh god, I see the problem now. (both laughing) So when we start it, it's going to all go to the middle, but as you start to accelerate, I think it's going to, the snapshot's going to look like it's lagging behind, and then as we get faster and faster, it's going to look like its going forward? - Okay, that's interesting. So at some, there's a certain speed you think where, the speed of rotation, where it's going to come back to the middle. - [Destin] We're talking about the snapshot right now? - Yeah, yeah. - [Destin] I think that's possible. - Okay, yeah. What I like is, and what most people's intuition is, you would expect it to lag behind, right? - [Destin] I think it's going to start lagging behind, for a snapshot, and then it'll speed back up. - Okay, well let's find out. Okay I'm going to turn the water on. Are you clear? - [Destin] Oh that's beautiful. - [Steve] Is it hitting in the middle? Nice. - [Destin] Almost. It wants to. We can tune it right? - [Steve] Yeah. - [Destin] Oh that's pretty. (Steve laughing) All right. - [Steve] You ready? - [Destin] Yeah. - [Steve] Okay. - [Destin] Oh, that's pretty dude! - Yeah, it's cool, huh? - [Destin] Ah! That's awesome. It feels weird, like it looks-- - [Steve] It just doesn't look right, does it? - [Destin] No. It doesn't look right at all. - Okay, I'm just going to try and go as fast as I can, just with my hand. - [Destin] But if you go really slow, does it lag at all? - No as soon you start to move it. - [Destin] It always go forwards. - As soon as you start to move it, it goes forward. - Okay, I was wrong, but, Steve was right (laughs). Let's run the slow-mo. (creepy upbeat music) Okay what we're seeing here is fascinating. Part of it's obvious, part of it's not so obvious. You remember before when we said you had two velocity components, right? Number one, we have the water that's shooting out of the spout, which gives it a velocity in this direction. And number two, it's being slung around by rotation, which gives it velocity in this direction. Just like before, let's add those arrows up, and again, the water is still moving in a straight line. Just like before, you can track any particle and follow it, and you'll see that it's moving in a straight line, away from the nozzle. The fun thing about this device for me, is that it's tricking my brain into thinking that the water is actively curving out in front, but it's not. Your brain tricks itself into thinking the water is turning. And here we are, at the Smarter Everyday moment for me personally. When I'm presented with a problem, often times I get pretty head strong, like maybe even arrogant because of my education on the topic, or because I have a life experience that makes me think I know all the answers. And when that happens, in my heart, I am less likely to hear the other person. At times during this experiment, Steve and I were communicating the exact same physical truths, from two different perspectives. And because we weren't saying it exactly the same way, I misinterpreted that to mean that one of us had to be wrong. As I look back at this footage, it was obvious to me that Steve clearly understood my perspective, but I can't say I took the time to do the same for him. Because of that, when I was really wrong, and he was trying to explain it to me, I was already shut down, I couldn't see it. I just looked like an idiot. Here's the takeaway for me, when I disagree with someone, or at least I think I disagree with someone, it is imperative that I stop, I listen, and I don't move on until I completely understand the other person's perspective. Because it's possible you'll find that you don't actually disagree. - [Steve] It doesn't feel right, does it? - [Destin] It doesn't feel right at all. But it makes perfect sense. Real quick, this video is sponsored by Audible. You can get any audiobook of your choosing, plus two free Audible Originals by going to audible.com/smarter, or texting the word 'smarter' to 500-500. Speaking of disagreements with the British, I want to try to convince you to listen to a book. I have discovered biographies. I want to direct your attention to this book. It's called "The Marquis," and it's about Marquis de Lafayette. It's written by Laura Auricchio, I think that's how you say her name. It's a fantastic look at a Frenchman's activities during the American Revolution, and how those unfolded and transformed into his role in the French Revolution. It is fascinating stuff. Go get "The Marquis: Lafayette Reconsidered", by going to audible.com/smarter, or texting the word 'smarter' to 500-500. There's also tons of other titles you can get. There are Audible Originals which are exclusively available on Audible. I reclaim my time in the car, by listening to audiobooks. Okay, let's go back to Steve's garden, and thank him for building such a wonderful contraption. He makes incredible physics videos, all kinds of really neat stuff. You need to check out his channel. You want to tell people a couple of videos that you recommend? - I wanted to explain gravitational waves, but I wanted to build something to say, "This is what gravitational waves are." Involves a Lycra sheet and a drill with wheels attached. So I used that to explain-- - [Destin] So you feel like you've nailed it on that one. - I feel like I got like as close as I could get. (Destin laughing) And I'm really proud of it. - [Destin] So, I will leave links over here, so you can check out these videos. They're in space, you can't see them, but they're in space. So go check those out. And you're hoping to get to a million subscribers, that's the goal, right? - That's what I want, yeah. - [Destin] Let's just be real, that's the goal. - That's what I, I'd feel really proud if I got the gold play button and all that. - All right, that's the goal. Let's just be real here, let's don't fake it. So anyway, that's it. Go check out Steve's channel. He makes great stuff. I've watched your stuff for years, man. - Aww, thanks. - So this is really fun to be in your back garden, man. Thank you very much. - Cool. - I appreciate it. I'm Destin, this is Steve. Getting Smarter Everyday. Have a good one, bye. (twinkling music)
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Channel: SmarterEveryDay
Views: 2,557,029
Rating: 4.9060063 out of 5
Keywords: Smarter, Every, Day, Science, Physics, Destin, Sandlin, Education, Smarter Every Day, experiment, demonstration, slow, motion, slow motion, education, math, science, science education, what is science, Physics of, projects, experiments, science projects, brain teaser, fluid dynamics, puzzle, water, sprinkler, physics trick, physics, science trick, science teacher, rotation
Id: M4-L8UgPkOk
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 12min 18sec (738 seconds)
Published: Sun Oct 13 2019
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