When You Know Yourself, You Know God · Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] [Music] [Music] m [Music] [Music] lead us from the unreal to the real lead us from darkness to light lead us from death to immortality and never more shine in our hearts with your resplendent face home peace peace peace so we are very happy again today that swami sarvapriyananda ji will be speaking and the topic is when you know yourself you know god very vedantic and swami is always vedanti and we all know how he is uh influencing the mind of many people all over and really people are coming to the thought of thinking differently which are swami vivekananda's thought we forgot that type of identification and is reminding us all the time in all these talks and lectures he does not need any introduction we used to call him youtube swami and now now his name is enough so i don't want to say anything but only his new experience being a fellow from the harvard divinity school has added something more to his own dimension of expressing the vedantic truth so we sometimes get a glimpse of that through his talks and lectures so we are very happy to have him here today and this evening after that he will have question answer so he will mentally get ready to put some questions but very sharp and very pointed so that time is not wasted i welcome swami sharokian and ready to speak [Music] good evening and namaste everybody i offer my pranams to river swami sarvadevananda ji maharaj other revered monks and nuns who are present here namaste and hello to all friends many of you are recognized in spite of the masks in new york very small group which comes during the pandemic time and all masked so after some time we get you get to know the masks so once i said so many familiar masks here masks here today swami brahmananda is is very central to this ashrama i was reading one of the reminiscences of the early days of the ashram when swami prabhavanandarji had set up this center and somebody who came to visit he said that the swami thinks of himself very much as a second in command in every room there is a picture of swami brahmananda his guru his teacher and he always feels swami prabhupada he always feels that he is doing his guru's work swami brahmananda's work and he always feels the presence of swami brahmananda in this ashram swami brahmananda of course was central to the founding and the growth of the entire ramakrishna movement and especially the ramakrishna order of monks but very few people know that he actually wrote a book there's a wonderful book written by swami prabhupada about him eternal companion wonderful book but that's about him but there is a book that swami brahmananda himself wrote and that is a collected teachings of sri ramakrishna in bengali it is this book srirama krishna pradesh and in english it's the words of the master words of the master and in this he put down the choicest teachings of sri ramakrishna in fact there's this story in banaras when he was writing this book late in the night and he heard the voice of sri ramakrishna saying this is long after maha samadhi swami ramahanda heard the voice of sudama krishna saying i didn't quite say it this way i said it this way so you have sudama krishna looking over his shoulder and see what exactly are you putting down so i say this is a book the teachings are spoken by sri ramakrishna compiled by swami brahmananda who was his spiritual son you know and proof read and edited by suramar krishna himself years ago i read swami ashok he said that this book is going to be a spiritual classic in times to come and in times to come people will carry it around in their pockets so after reading that i've been carrying it around my pockets which explains the tattered state of this book so i always carry this wherever i go now what i'll do today we will read two texts just the first three points from this book just the first three quotes three teachings from this book and another text maybe five thousand years ago the criteria openishad we will read them together and see what comes out of it we are well acquainted with the high devotional teachings of sri ramakrishna but the equally high non-dualistic teachings you see what will come out when we read this you'll be surprised to see what are the teachings which swami brahmananda picked and chose and the first thing he says the second thing he says the third thing he says extremely high non-dualistic teachings so we'll dive into this and read these two texts millennia apart not just centuries apart but we'll read them together and you'll see how remarkable they seem to speak to each other across the millennia across the centuries in the third point i'll start with the third point it's you know numbered one two three four like that the third teaching is i'll read the original bengali and then translate back into english the third teaching is a certain individual said to him meaning sri ramakrishna asked him what did he ask deen tell me one thing by which i will be enlightened you're allowed only one sentence he's clever because otherwise there's the 1000 pages of the gospel of sri lanka krishna you go read that he says no you're limited to one sentence akkad one thing you tell me tini bolan he sudama krishna said brahma jagat mitta aideed harunakaru he said brahman is real the world is an appearance world is false contemplate this assimilate this dharuna is to assimilate this teaching having said this sri ramakrishna fell silent he kept quiet and there's interestingly there's a problem with the english translation if you look at the words of the master here what they have done is he said the brahman is real the world is false assimilate this teaching and then keep quiet sriram krishna is telling the person to keep quiet after assimilating this teaching which is not at all what is meant here it's very clear here swami brahmananda is saying that sri ramakrishna fell silent after saying this which is to emphasize that this is the essential teaching that's all that there is if you want it in one sentence brahman is real the world is false and not even that you are brahman that part also has he has not even added that just brahman is real the world is false assimilate this and then he felt silent then we'll go to the first teaching so what is brahman and how do you assimilate this teaching what do you do actually so what is that reality and how do you realize it and uh what is the result of it all that basically covers all of spiritual life and that's what we're going to cover in the next 45-50 minutes so the first teaching i'm going from the third back to the first teaching the first thing that swami brahman has recorded here when you are human being a person knows who he is you know god when you know yourself you know god how do you know yourself who am i who am i more in the sense of what am i actually at the end of the enquiry what will you find you won't find there is anything corresponding to i see what it means is every word has a it refers to something when i say bottle it refers to this thing bottle when i say i what does it refer to and suryama krishna says you have to inquire why do you have to inquire into the eye there's a tremendous amount of vedantic dialectics regarding this somebody will ask what's the point of this inquiry i all first of all i already know who i am one number two even if i were to inquire there's no point even if i know who i am what good does it do me and then there there's pages and pages of discussions and dialectics about this that you do not really know who you are first and second it does you a tremendous amount of good there's nothing more valuable than this knowledge to know who you are and so on so here if you inquire thoroughly into what the word i stands for bottle this thing i what he says you will not find anything very buddhistic and then he says how do you do it how do you inquire into the eye and look at the step-by-step by step how it is going no knowledge of brahman that's the highest thing hold on to that that spiritual life what do you mean by knowledge of brahman you have to know yourself how do you know yourself he says inquire which are enquire into it how do you inquire who am i what am i how do you do that this is the form of the inquiry hands and feet and blood and flesh and you know all of this what is the i here when i say bottle here i we will immediately say it's not so difficult swami i hear and sudama krishna says okay here let's take a look at this here flesh and blood and hands and feet and head and bones and tissues and organ systems and cells what which one of them corresponds to the word eye just like bottle like you peel an onion and you keep peeling it you're going to cry when you peel it and what do you get skin it's just layer after layer after layer and there's no core to it you don't get to an essential thing called an onion ah at last i've got it i peeled off everything and i got the onion nothing what you refer to as an onion is that layer multi-layered system of skins of the onion you find nothing similarly when you inquire into the i am you will never you will know you won't find anything corresponding to it if you stop at this point you get sunnyva buddhism this is a subject in itself i mean they say sarvam shunyam all is void all is empty emptiness is the ultimate reality what does it actually mean just make a comment about it and then pres proceed traditionally many systems have taken it to mean uh nihilism that it means nothing that they are saying that they means nagarjuna the entirety of modern tibetan buddhism the dalai lama all his followers they are saying that ultimately nothing exists now that's a little unfair there are many many ancient um schools of thought in india have charged them with this nihilism nothingness because first of all nagarjuna himself clearly says that's not what we mean at all it's not that something is existing not that it is something that does not exist it's not something that both exists and does not exist it's not something that does not exist and does not exist emptiness is this four-fold alternatives beyond these transcending these four-fold alternatives but what does it mean actually either it means no no there's nothing or it means that's just another way a negative way a particularly clever way of pointing to the same thing same brahman which we are talking about existence consciousness place and that's what sort of we think they meant but the issue is not very clear at all in fact as the swami was saying last year uh one of the courses that i studied at harvard university was with the world authority on madhyamaka buddhism by professor garfield what is his opinion about what emptiness means nothingness nothingness according to him i'll first tell you the terms he uses he says what it means is epistemologically it is coherentism and metaphysically anti-foundationalism so what does that practically mean he says if you study madhyamaka buddhism the buddhism of nagarjuna and you get the feeling that you're dropping endlessly dropping into a bottomless pit you've got it right there is no end to that you know the discovery of emptiness but he has a point there what he is pointing to if that is the teaching of nagarjuna it is something like this you inquire into the essential nature of the self of i and you find there is nothing there and we as hindus will immediately say yes yes but i know go one step forward and there is pure consciousness or brahman but you know let's not be impatient one thing i noticed if you stop there that endless dropping into a bottomless pit if you if that's it that's the state you're going to hold on to that also works actually it dissolves the uh the kind of thinking which says that the self is a thing that is dissolved and that can lead to freedom why not and sriram krishna sort of supports it when narendra narath has visited both gaya and come back and they're discussing buddhism in front of sri ramakrishna and somebody says the buddha was an atheist gnostic in the sense of atheism nasty in the sense of ultimate reality does not exist suramar krishna immediately objected he said nasty kanoha why why should it be nasty he could not express what he found in language and then that's the thing which is often quoted then he said something which professor arena chakravarti recently pointed out to me that is a very startling comment that sudama krishna makes he says in bengali ostina tai tiktik that which is between is-ness and not is and not uh and is not between is and is not that's exactly it but what's so startling about this if he had said it is beyond is and beyond is beyond is and beyond business that's a very vedantic way of formulating it but suryama krishna uses a very odd usage of words for a hindu spiritual teacher in between majay but it is exactly the language used by the buddhists this is the middle way middle way between eternalism and nihilism between is and is not and you stop there that's very buddhistic anyway all of this is to underline the fact that if you stop at this point it's very much what tibetan lama would agree with but he doesn't stop here he goes one step further if you investigate you will find nothing corresponding to the eye what remains is the atman pure consciousness when the i-ness of the eye is lost the objective ego part of the eye is transcended then you realize god okay so this is the advaitic position what is the other text i was going to talk about it is the criteria upanishad in the brahmananda valley the second chapter second uh section of the titanopanishad it starts with a dramatic declaration one tiny sentence short sentence which i think encapsulates the entirety of advaita advaita vedanta brahmavid the knower of brahman attains the highest and then next there is a verse about this [Music] infinite existence consciousness brahman is existence consciousness without limit [Music] how do you realize this one who realizes this in the in the intellect in the sacred space in the cave of the intellect basically as consciousness as i am that brahman when you realize that i am brahman you attain the the whatever you desire all desires are fulfilled you attain complete fulfillment in identity with brahman which is pure consciousness one attains total fulfillment fulfillment of all that one could want so this is the section there and you see how it uh matches in one sentence you realize brandon and how do you realize that and according to the tethered upanishad within yourself as i am brahmana and sri ramakrishna says how do you realize that you'll have to realize it as when you realize yourself when you know yourself you will know brahmana but how do we know once how do i know myself what is the process so that's what we will the bulk of our investigation will be there what is the actual process of investigating into ourselves which srirama krishna has just indicated here take a look at yourself when you say i what does it refers to refer to this it refers to this and what is this you take you analyze it which one of this or which combination of things here is the eye so the tertiary upanishad in the brahman and the valley gives us a step-by-step description of the process of inquiry you know when you say the knower of brahman attains the highest immediately of these three questions what is this brahman and there is answer brahman is infinite existence consciousness how do i know this problem that's the second question we have and that's what we'll take a look at and the third question we'll have of course attains the highest what do you mean by the highest and that's also mentioned here you you are completely fulfilled you attain complete fulfillment transcend all desires it's the most precious thing one could have in life it is the point of all of life it is it is the meaning and purpose and goal of life basically to realize this thing now what remains before us is the main subject today is the process of enquiry can we go step by step into this and see for ourselves as ramakrishna says which are inquire into it and see for yourself what am i and then we'll see the same results teterio punish it comes to that by inquiry we find there's nothing corresponding to the eye and yet beyond that when we go through this the process always is that first listen carefully what was said that's absolutely essential it's it's no good that after the teaching what what i know i've got many opinions here he said this he said i i think this works or this was great but what did he actually say oh that i don't remember that can often happen so we have to be very careful about what is the teaching first second do i get it or do it or is it confusing is that are there sides to it aspects to it which i don't understand second question is do i get it and the third question is is it real for me so all of these three you must check mentally every time you go through a step you must check mentally what did he say did i get it and third is it real is it a fact for me if you can keep saying yes yes yes to all three till the very end you'll be enlightened before this class is over um but even if not what we get out of this is very very valuable at least from our perspective it is the the sense of spiritual life there is nothing higher than this there's more than this and you know the peak of the everest is the highest point in the in the himalayas but the peak is not the only thing there are beautiful valleys and there are many places to see but in spiritual life this is the the ultimate the highest and the final realization and it is enough it is enough for attaining uh enlightenment and freedom all right so what is the process how do i realize and the upanishad says you what do you think about yourself when you say i what comes to mind let me say this and open ishad says fine let's start there openishad calls this the annamaya atma the self made of food by the self because i think i am this so i am this thing this is the self and this self is made of food annamaya means a transformation of food what we eat and drink and assimilate and that's transformed into this this body i keep remembering this italian actress in the 1960s i think here in hollywood she was asked what's the secret of your beauty and she would say oh this it's pasta it's and she was right it's the transformation of food sophia lauren right sophia lauren yeah right i keep forgetting a name sophia lauren said it's pasta so this is i i am this and the openishad says investigate how do you investigate if you take a closer look this is continuously changing from babyhood to childhood to teenage to middle age to old age and then it dies from birth to death multiple changes six fold changes are there you burn and you come into being and you grow and develop you mature and the body begins to deteriorate and decay and finally dies multiple changes six four changes it undergoes and i have the sense of being the same person i was this one who was in the baby body in the teenage body and the young person's body in the middle aged person's body the old person's body i am the same person i have a sense of identity across changes in the body we say no no you're playing with word swami i am all of that but if you look carefully it can't be true if two things are very different b and c are very different then how can a be both b and c if a is identical with b and when b changes and becomes c then a can't remain the same and still be c i mean i'm putting it in abstract terms one sadhu uttarakhan in the himalayas he said somebody said oh but all of this i am this entire thing from childhood to old age i am this entire body i i'm the young person also and the old person also um you know the mind also changes it's sometimes happy sometimes that is yes but it's the same thing i am the one who is sad i'm the one who's happy and the monk replied how is that possible in hindi he said i'm the horse also and the and the ass also the donkey if the two things logically it can't be the same if they are radically changing then you can't remain one of the two has to be false either i am the changing body and therefore i am not a unitary continuous thing then my intuition that i am one person has to be false or it is true that i am the same person but i am not literally in that case i cannot literally be the changing body because i am the body is changing and i have the strong intuition of being an unchanging person i cannot be the same literally be the same as the body the body is changing continuously this in sanskrit you put it in this way means change modification nirvikara without change the two cannot be the same i cannot be the body why savikara because it is changing a little more subtle i think more convincing the body is a thing it's an object and i am the experiencer of the object the seer and the scene cannot be the same thing you are the drashta and this is drishya you are looking at this this bottle you are seeing this bottle the eyes see this bottle the eyes and the bottle cannot be the same thing it's a simple point but it's worth noticing that the eyes can only see things which are different from the eyes it has to be at a certain distance the only thing that the eyes cannot see other eyes themselves so the drashta and rishya the seer and the scene the experiencer and the experience the subject and the object they are not the same they are not the same the subject is different from the object subject and object are not the same the body is clearly an object can you see the body yes can you touch the body yes touch taste see hear smell every sense organ operates on the body the body is an object to every one of your own sense organs it's an object if it's an object it must be different from you the experiencer so i the experiencer of the body i the subject experiencing the body as an object i must be different from the body drishya because it's an object of experience i cannot be the body again another there are multiple ways of arguing this out i'm going to take only three the third one is um because it's insentient whenever i think of myself whenever we think of ourselves we always think of ourselves as aware as knowing subjects always notice you say no i am not aware then you are aware of not of being not aware you are always aware of something so i am always the the one which is aware and i am aware of certain things so i use this just now to say i am the knower and the body is the known but it also means another point that i am aware and the body is not aware see how does that work very simple there's this psychologist in new york who is very influenced by vedanta greg good he's written some books about you know vedantas the direct path and i spoke with him i corresponded with him and he said that he started off in his vedantic inquiries because he was inspired by swami adi swaraj in new york [Music] he gives this example if you look at the body take look at the hand what's the feeling you feel that i am aware of the hand you don't feel the hand is aware of me hello swami long time no see no the hand is not aware of you just check your own feelings experience check with your experience i am aware of this thing so i am aware this thing is not aware of me so this is not aware i am caitanya this is jara in sanskrit jada therefore i cannot be this thing because conscious and not conscious are not the same thing it cannot be so we have got three reasons three arguments three ways of seeing i am not the body why he said it is because savikara it is subject to change i am not it is drishya rishyatva it is an object of experience i am the subject it's known i'm the knower and because jarat it is insentient i am sentient i'm conscious i'm aware it is not conscious or aware now you might say the body is conscious body is full of awareness yes that's a different subject matter you know in vedanta we say consciousness reflected in the mind is the reflected consciousness from there it comes to from the mind it comes to the brain and the nervous system and so the living body is it feels full of awareness as long as life is there so there's a whole system of how awareness sort of is borrowed by the mind-body system but that's a different subject but i essentially am aware and the body in itself is not aware because of these reasons i cannot be the body savi now i am not the body i am i have the intuitive feeling of not being subject to change i have the intuitive feeling of being a knower drushtap seer and i have the intuitive feeling of being aware all the time therefore i'm not the body body the annamaya in sanskrit the food body the food self is not me this is the conclusion we have come to so vedanta will say if it is not me where are you then we can take an intuitive look at your experience yeah i feel i'm somewhere in there all right i sort of get the under i understand begin to understand why you would say i'm not the body but i cannot say that i'm not really related to the body it has nothing to do me it seems to be very intimately connected to me i'm somewhere in there if you're in there that's why vedanta says you can treat the body which is now no longer the self it is no longer you but you can treat it because you feel you're in there you can treat it as a sheath as a covering as something that encloses you sort of it does not enclose you in but let's treat it like that that's why it's called a kosher kosher means it covers in sanskrit means a covering it covers you the real you is somewhere in there and it covers you the annamaya atma the food self is now called annamaya kosha the food sheath covering then what is the self upanishad says ah so you are you agree with us that we have come to this conclusion this mutual understanding that the body is not the self yes yes and you feel the self is somewhere in there yes the self is anya it is other than the body where in there why in there you say it i'm not saying it the opponent says it's what you who are saying you feel you're in there so you're in there atma to the physical body by inner i don't mean physically inert because physically if you start probing like a doctor what will you find in the body more body [Music] flesh and blood and bones and and so on fluids so inner means inner in a physiological sense the subtler functions which keep the body alive the subtler functions which keep this body going the vital functions the vitals [Music] and the most evident clue about this is breath breath in itself is just a part of prana but it's the most evident thing we feel but are you life are you physiological processes in this body is that what you are is that what the self is immediately apply those criterion does it change you bet it does in breath out breath healthy sick hungry full energetic tired these are all manifestations of prana the surging and ebbing of the pranic tidal waves in the body so i am the one who was healthy i am the same person who feels sick now and the same person who recovers after treatment i am the one who was feeling hungry after a full meal i am the one who feels satiated then which one am i the changing prana and i the unchanging one i cannot be the same thing savikara the prana is subject to change continuous change change and again is the prana something observable are you the observer of the prana well you better be the entire mindfulness industry depends on that breathe in and be aware of your breathing in and count one when the in-breath goes in does that sound familiar and breathe out it's a huge industry all over the united states right now mindfulness it's a wonderful practice but what vedanta will take away from that is aha so you can observe the breath and the your mindfulness meditation master will tell you observe the breath and therefore vedanta will say the breath is drishya object of your awareness you are aware of the breath is the breath aware of you when you breathe in we meet again breath says to you no not at all breath is completely oblivious of you or anything else or even of itself it does not know anything you know it therefore the breath is an object you are the witness of that object you are the experiencer the breath is experienced you are the subject the breath is an object prana is an object which is experienced therefore i cannot be the prana i am the experiencer not the experienced and the subject and not the object and is the prana aware it just follows the prana is not aware i am aware of the prana so these are two subtle things drishya and jaratwa there are two related things but they are different one is it's an object of uh and i am the subject the other one is it is not aware i am aware so i am aware of the breath breath is not at all aware of me or anything else i am conscious the breath is not conscious therefore i cannot be depressed i the unchanging i the subject the seer i the conscious the aware experiencer i cannot be the breath which is changing which is an object which is not consciousness not sentient for i am not the pranamaya i am not the physiological processes the breath just sort of is a placeholder for all the physiological processes going on in the body i am none of it not the life processes they are there i'm aware of them that's going on and very good that they're going on but i am not the breath i am not the press i am not prana therefore prana is not the self you can't call it the atma anymore where are you well i'm sort of inwards to the prana because i experienced the prana the prana is some something sort of out there for me not only the physical body the pranic body is also it's a body it's a sheath prana maya kosha not not an atma not the self then where are you the self is not the prana it is separate anya and where is it subtler than inward to the prana subtler than the prana inward in the sense of subtler not physically inward subtler than the prana what is subtler than the prana the mind thoughts feelings emotions memories desires all of that which is going on now which is considering the prana all of that it's the mind that's where all the sense organs dump their input you know vision and sound and smell and taste all of that is registered is transformed into british movements in the mind i see i hear i smell i taste i i touch mind so i am the mind and at this point most people stop this is where people think i am this thing knows this i am i am a mind in a body that's what most of us we think that way we say yeah i am not the breath i'm certainly not a piece of flesh and blood but it's there a living body i am a mind encased in a living body and therefore as long as the mind is there i am there i am this person and what is the person what's the person made of essentially a mind but i guess the mind has to be in a living body otherwise the mind wouldn't exist so that's what we think that's the common sense understanding of a person today but let's again be very philosophical let's give no quarter let's be very firm and insist is the mind changing you say oh boy does it change much more than the prana much more than the physical body thousands and thousands of thoughts feelings emotions streaming through uncontrollably throughout the day and even in sleep in dreams the mind is continuously changing which section which slice of the mind are you all of it but it's all of it is not the same thing it's changing continuously is it uh are you aware of the mind can you know the mind yes if you think about it we can if there's pain if there is unhappiness who knows it except me i am the one who is unhappy i am the one who is happy i am the one who is remembering things i am the one who feels i can't remember it's on the tip of my tongue but i can't remember i am the one who wants things i am the one who is angry miserable i am the one who is happy and delighted all of these are in the mind so therefore i know what's there going on in my mind i'm the first to know but then vedanta what it takes away from there is then the mind you know the mind the mind is known it is drishya you are the drashta you are the knower of your mind we know our minds and therefore we are the knower of the mind and noah and noah no one must be different drastic and trisha must be different they cannot be the same thing therefore and one more thing conscious and not conscious this is the most stunning thing in vedanta this is where vedanta parts ways with modern neuroscience till now in consciousness studies it's basically it's sort of standard to treat mind and consciousness is the same thing sort of interchangeable if you ask in consciousness studies what is it that you study in consciousness studies we study consciousness events what are consciousness events thoughts feelings emotions ideas vizanta will say but is a thought conscious what a strange question nobody even asks this in consciousness studies i introduced this you know this concept in in class a couple of times at harvard they were puzzled what are you talking about and yet i saw in many of the readings we did a survey of the standard literature and consciousness studies the philosophy of mind and i saw that in many of the readings the tangles they get into can often be untangled if you make a clear distinction between consciousness and mind that they don't how would you distinguish between consciousness and mind very simple very elegant cutting tool a knife which cuts consciousness and mind apart what is that that's what we use in vedanta not even vedanta we go back to sankhya they have done it i mean it's basically their intellectual property distinction between consciousness and mind what is that how do you distinguish that which you are aware of is not consciousness that which is aware is consciousness so can you speak of if you can speak of something as this then it is not consciousness this bottle not consciousness it's an object this hand not consciousness it's an object this breath not consciousness it's an object this thought this feeling this memory this this this not consciousness those are also objects they are called sukhma subtle object this is a gross a physical object and that's a this is also a physical object but that's a subtle object but still an object that's the point it is drishyam means object and the consciousness you are aware of it you are the consciousness who is aware of the mind then then you the self you cannot be the mind and the mind is not conscious the mind is an object of awareness the mind is continuously changing not mind mind is not the self we are on very subtle grounds now going inward from there then what is the self annyon [Music] upanishad says go subtler deeper inside anya other than the mind other than the physical body other than the pranic body other than the mind which is now a body we call it manoa maya kosha it's a sheath which covers you it begins to feel like those russian nesting dolls you know but we'll see ultimately it's not like a russian nesting doll it's more like the onion sri ramakrishna talks about then it is not the mind also then what is it so what in vedanta what we do is you make a distinction within the mind itself make a distinction between the faculty of understanding buddhi we call it vigna understanding what is understanding just that determinative faculty when you know the feeling you get when you crack a mathematical problem when you understand a problem for the first time or the feeling you get when you do not understand something what's going on there that is the the buddhi or the intellect the vigyana the gyanam you're working away at so that for example right now what we are using to uh do all this that is the vigna maya the buddhist intellect that intellect which understands the mind and through the mind experiences the prana and the body and through the living body experiences the world that intellect i am that and most people would really really do please stop here that's it that's who i am i am this intelligence operating through a body-mind complex yeah that's what we think of ourselves mostly i'm an intellect so am i that now you know very well apply those three rules does it change does intellect change yes it does i hope it does that's how we learn i did not know now i know i did not understand now i understand therefore the intellect changes that's what we are interested in does it change yes it changes i was the one who did not understand i am the one who understood in that case the intellect which did not understand and understood it must be different from the eye it changed but i am the same one is it something that we are aware of the intellect yes i'm aware of not being able to understand i'm aware of the delight in understanding something a mathematical scientific problem whatever it is making a breakthrough getting it you know so in that case the intellect is something that is drishya an object of awareness and same principle applies i am aware the intellect is not aware is the intellect aware of me or am i aware of the intellect i am aware of the intellect consciousness is on my side not on the side of the intellect they're very subtle distinctions therefore the intellect is also not the self the intellect also becomes a sheath [Music] the intellect is not the self the self is something now remember what we are all doing don't lose track of what we are doing here why are we doing all this we are inquiring into what am i where did we start long long time ago sriram krishna said which one am i hands or feet or skin and blood from there we have started we have come all the way inwards into the intellect the intellect too is not what i am it's there mind is there intellect is there the chronic body is there the physical body is there but i am none of these these are like sheaths covering me subtler and subtler sheaths enclosing me that's the model which is being built up and it's all all wrong actually it's all false they're pulling a fast one on us they will as we go deeper they'll finally the opponent should will pull the rug out from underneath our feet so that's the amazing way of teaching in the upanishads i am not the intellect either if you push further than that and if you try it further than deeper beyond thought no thought allowed no understanding allowed nothing what do you get nothing is what you get blank you will hit a blankness a blankness which is most vivid in deep sleep this has a technical name in vedanta it is called the anandamaya the sheath of bliss for certain reasons it's the cause it's also called the causal body again for certain reasons i remember there was one senior swami in the ashram where i joined in yoga vidyadhar maharaj is a wonderful old swami very austere very non-dualistic i remember as a brahmachary walking with him once in the in the grounds of that ashram it was about 25 years ago i still remember vividly and he used to stammer a little he was telling me about this process i didn't understand at that time he was telling me about drinkdrishya vega the process of drinking i still remember him looking up at me and with those big bright shining eyes he was shorter than me and he says beyond beyond the beyond thought beyond buddhi beyond understanding i said beyond that is blank what's there there's nothing i don't feel at the existence of anything beyond it just blank and then with the big bright eyes and with a stammer he said [Music] um behind the darkness the one who is there catch hold of that one catch hold of that one of course you cannot catch hold of it but he meant it what he meant was to grasp to in understanding notice how grasping means understanding in in sanskrit in bengali and indian languages in english also grasp dharu he means in that sense of understanding understand that one to be the self of course i didn't know at that time what he meant by that beyond the darkness of the causal body so that one does that change well we do seem to come out of waking into deep sleep and from deep sleep back to waking um according to vedanta there is change in the causal body in the in the state of agyana the three gunas sattvara jastamas they keep changing and they're constant in constant flux and there are certain reasons why we we will say there is change in deep sleep in the causal body itself not only that this much is clear is it something that we are aware of yes that's why we can speak of deep sleep that's why we can speak after which mind starts functioning we can say that oh i was not thinking of anything what were you thinking of nothing so we are aware of think seeing of of thinking of nothing just like we are aware of seeing we are aware of seeing nothing also close your eyes so it's an object and is it aware of course not we may be said to be aware of it it's not aware of us even the anandamaya is not the self ah now we are getting close i'm sure you're going to tell us what the self is now and the upanishad keeps quiet that's it so ramakrishna says peel the onion fine the onion peel peel peel and then nothing where is the onion where is the core we have promised like a you know like a nesting doll you go and we'll finally find the the tiniest doll enclosed within all the other dolls so we have this model which is set up on purpose in our minds are the five sheets and the atman the real self i the real eye which vedanta is going to tell us about and i will discover brahman why because you promised when i know myself i will know god and when i know god everything will be fulfilled everything will be fine all desires fulfilled christmas shopping list all ticked all boxes ticked but now after going through these five stages five you know subtler and subtler inward and inward then right none of them are the self the annamaya not the self food sheet pranamaya not the self the manomaya not the self vignamaya not the self and the anandamaya not the self neither the physical body nor the vital body not the mental body not the intellect not even the causal the the sheath of ignorance none of them whatever we experience you know when i say i i am here enquire when we inquire whatever we found we see it none of them can be i yeah then where am i then i don't exist and then upanishad says yeah it says the next thing the upanishad says entity if you go there the next sentence is all this you are talking about doesn't exist then you don't exist but i feel i do exist what are you these things but are you these things you just saw you are not none of them i'm none of them whatever i could think of and none of them yet i do exist which one where am i i won't go through the story of the tenth man if you have heard my talks you will know this is where the story comes in you know those friends who crossed the river and they thought that their friend is drowned and they counted they had been told they were ten in the group so they counted one two three four five six seven eight nine they couldn't find the tenth one because obviously they were not counting themselves and then a wise person comes and says um count i will show you the tenth person and they count one two three four five six seven eight nine where's the tenth one and the wise man takes his hand and turns it around dasha must say thou art the tenth you are the tenth oh i am the tenth i see one two three four five six seven eight nine 10. now the question is why was he not able to find the 10th man well because he was counting the others he was not counting himself the deeper question is why was he not counting himself think about that why was he not counting himself because he has a very good reason not to count himself because all the others he found outside so by that logic where is the first one there second one there third one there ninth one there the tenth one should be there isn't there therefore he's dead but the tenth one one of these is not like the others the tenth one is not like those nine it is the subject which is experiencing all the other objects now apply it i'll give you the technique you can try it sometime it'll lead straight to enlightenment at least it'll lead to something something interesting if not enlightenment try it note physically the body then the breath then subtler inwards the mind subtler inwards and why subtler inwards why not stop there because of these reasons it cannot be the self subtler inwards the intellect subtler inwards blankness from body to blankness what is that which is experiencing all five and the way to try it is physically try it in experience physical body here's the body annamaya i am not it then take your attention to something subtler breathe in and out pranamaya i am not it inwards subtler thoughts and feelings i can't point it you have to look at it yourself thoughts and feelings and emotions memories i am not it label it and i am not it inwards and subtler the faculty of understanding which we are using now vigna maya i am not it inwards subtler we get a blankness nothing if you rigorously keep out all thinking all remembering all you just think of a situation where there's no thinking then drop that thought that blankness i am not it then what am i what is that which illumines and experiences all five you have it but you can never objectify it that is what sri ramakrishna says in the end what remains over is pure consciousness if you don't do it rigorously what will happen is you'll end up with the mind if you flush out everything that is mind and thought and understanding then you'll end up but but how will you end up will you know the self will you know pure consciousness no you will not but it will be an intuitive grasp srinam krishna elsewhere says consciousness illumining and revealing itself like you don't need another light to know that light it is revealing itself and everything else similarly you will come upon not something thing within quotes it's not a thing it is our own inner reality that is pure consciousness that is immortal the body is mortal that is beyond sickness and health it is the prana which is controlling sickness and health that is beyond hunger and thirst that is prana that is beyond misery and desire and frustration that is the mind that is beyond comprehension and non-comprehension that is the intellect that is beyond deep sleep and waking that is the causal body beyond all of that not subject to birth and death not subject to illness or sickness not subject to misery and frustration pleasure and pain remembering or forgetting not subject to understanding not understanding but illumining all of this and making all these experiences possible without it nothing is possible that shining everything else shines by its light your light everything here is lit up by your light everything in life is lit up you shining everything in life shines afterwards it makes everything possible but never an object that is who you are once you realize that that itself is god that itself is brahman one more thing needs to be added there and he says jagat mitta okay i realize that is consciousness and of course there is the mind and the prana and the body and the world if you stay there that is sankhya that is uh the world is also real consciousness is also real but what advaita says is i will not go into this i plan to go into greater depth and this will take about half an hour how do you reduce the world to pure consciousness that's the real advaita where what we left behind the physical body pranic body the mental body the intellect and the causal body all of them are nothing but appearances in consciousness remember first we distinguish between consciousness not conscious the witness is different from that which is witnessed is distant different from drishya but here is the subtle thing the drishya that which is experienced that is not different from the drastica you might say how is that possible if two things are different this is different in this different how then how can if this is different from this then how can this be not different from this but it's possible it's not like these two things not consciousness and not consciousness not like that it is like water and wave like gold and ornament like clay and pot the clay is different from the pot why because the clay can be clay without being a pot but the part is not different from the clay because it can never exist without the clay the water is different from the wave but the wave is not different from the water in the same way what advaita says is a big bombshell whatever you experience after having discovered yourself as pure consciousness whatever is illumined by that pure consciousness mind and prana and body and the world out there is not out there it appears to consciousness it appears in consciousness and it is nothing other than consciousness this is the meaning of jagat mitta the world is an appearance in consciousness the world is an appearance in you appearance means it is nothing other than you just as every bit of the wave is water every bit of the pot is clay every bit of the universe is you the pure consciousness after this one more point and i'm done srirama krishna says the two kinds of i do there are two kinds of ai aktapakami one is the ripe ego and there's a unripe ego so what happens after this enlightenment go and disappear into a burst of light no again the world will appear the body will appear the prada will appear the mind will same body will appear same mind will appear same intellect will appear and the ego also will appear but now the ego will be transformed what what is the difference now he says the ripe ego and the unripe ego here is where it's when this collection is very interesting my house my child i'll be all these things my possessions these are the unripe ego i am the child of god i am the servant of god the god is the master i am the servant this son seems a bit dualistic devotional this is what we normally get when we read the gospel this is what we hear but the interesting thing is what swami brahmananda has recorded he says there are two modes to this ripe ego one is the dualistic devotional mode lord is the master i am the servant and there it can be non-devotion non-dualistic also there is an advaita bhakti but we will not go into that but the second mode of this ripe ego this is what i want to end with i the ego which has come up when you are again active back in the world again but i what am i the i now refers to that eternal free pure consciousness which i found in all of this inquiry i found it i've discovered it at least i've got some understanding grasp of it i am that we started with i what does the word i refer to bottle i that eternal free pure consciousness [Music] [Music] to sriram krishna holy mother swami vivekananda swami brahman and the to bless us bless us all that we may have this intuitive realization in this very life and be blessed do we have time for one or two questions because we have run out of time okay swami tell us your name and ask the question yeah balakrishna two questions when you're using the three different types of uh analysis to see which what is self versus not self yes the first two seem little bit more clear especially in the earlier stages of koshas but awareness i mean at least the way i understood you were saying because i'm aware that's not aware it seems like a very because i'm aware you know that is not aware is this seems to be the analysis because i'm aware and that is not aware yeah like it's little difficult to say that that is not aware and unlike the other two where we say i'm the seer so i can clearly see the difference but but do you know what what is meant by awareness no that's that's a confusion but are you aware yeah i can say i am aware but unless you are what it is unless you have what is called a philosophical zombie you know a zombie is a word looks like a human being talks and walks like a human being but there's nothing inside there's no light on inside you are aware all of us are without any doubt that's the fundamental fact of our lives awareness consciousness this is the fundamental factor for our lives now whatever we are aware of is an object to awareness you might say but i am seeing these people are these people not aware i'm aware i'm sure i know i'm aware but these people are also aware but these people are aware their awareness is not an object to your awareness their bodies behaviors speech activities are objects which are aware of if you were a telepath you'd be aware of their thoughts but you never be aware of awareness awareness never becomes an object therefore whatever is an object cannot be awareness if i am aware this is not a way it's an object it then i must be different from this the second part of my question is that the last anandamayu question is a little difficult to understand because intellect changing and like we are aware of it or we are we understand it we don't understand it that part is a little clear but when you go to ananda my question that there is no change i mean i did not fully understand the analysis on the anandamaya kosha take it this way the changing change in the ananda my kosher is uh is a subtle matter and there are some speculations about it but you need not going to use that just use object drishya and rashta or use caitanya and jada because it is insentient and i am aware of it because i am the subject and it is an object therefore i cannot be done in the my kosher yeah the awareness of that it seems like it's like a on and off like i'm aware i'm not aware yes the reason the reason because why it's like that is because we are not we are still at this point unable to distinguish very clearly between mind and consciousness so in the microscope in deep sleep for example the mind is resolved it is not functioning therefore we have a doubt am i really aware of the ananda my kosher or am i not aware at all this question of whether there is consciousness at all in deep sleep or not for example modern neuroscience says that okay you're limited to one you've already asked three questions earlier before the class arvind swamy in the deep sleep yes that to whom the or that which is aware of the blankness [Music] isn't that awareness itself in this isn't that isn't that brahman or the pure witness yes by the same logic that which is aware of the dream [Music] and that which is aware of this entire world yes isn't that brahman of course that is the whole idea of the turia which the one consciousness illuminating waking dreaming and deep sleep yes yes you gentlemen here tell us your name and ask the question i have so many questions so i don't think i can ask you all the questions so is there one book you can recommend which awakens which helps us uh get to a better level of understanding in this i mean the best book would be something like well would be the mandukya upanishad with the manuka karikas but so is ashtavakra so if you want an understanding with the help of arguments and reasoning then i would recommend some of the prakar rana granthas first i generally like drink rishabhiweka upper ok and those prakrangaranthas are short and easy and interesting and then you go into the mandukya okay tell us your name and ask the question swamiji uh is the concept of a prairie the same as an object a priori in the sense in the kantian sense yeah um from a western philosophical stance um an object is that which is presented to consciousness from our perspective now a priori that's a different thing that's a matter of knowledge a priori and a posteriori um so that's more epistemological than uh ontological so we'll leave it at that yeah okay yeah thank you yes hi swami my name is theo um i'm an actor and um i've been studying vedanta for a few years now yes and as i go through the process of self-inquiry so in my work i use my imagination predominantly yes and something that i always am intrigued by are curious about is where the imagination resides within the five sheets is it it seems to me somewhere between the um mind and the intellect and furthermore when i'm using my imagination in the context of my art it's not something i'm doing consciously in the sense that the imagination is taking its own role and i'm following it in a sense so i'm curious to know what what is where is the imagination located in the context of the five sheets right all right um two things here one is the imagination you can say it's located in the mind in the manomaya kalpana but more important than that where the imagination is located you can it depends on how you classify it but more important than that you said something just now i don't know if you noticed i don't use the imagination consciously see that is the precise use of the word consciously that i want to that vedanta is attacking by consciously you mean deliberately self-consciously but when the imagination is going on and you are acting a particular role you have thrown yourself into that role have you become unconscious are you in coma are you not aware of anything not at all you're still conscious you're aware so that background basic baseline awareness the background radiance which reveals everything when you are theo we know that and when you are acting as a particular character that is also revealed to you what you are saying is your mind goes on sort of auto you know like so so that's the mind there is lack of deliberation there now the actor and the role acted that's a good example of what we are trying to say here consciousness is like being few and this person we are is like one of the roles you're acting what we mean by consciousness the atman how much effort do you put into being theo nothing how many dialogues you have to memorize when it's for my role this is for my role as theo no that is natural to you it does not take any effort if you put in some effort it will become inauthentic you are not yourself then you are yourself and you are yourself consciousness is itself without any effort all effort all intentionality in the western philosophical sense is in the mind not in consciousness yeah hi my name is naina i have question is the consciousness and atma and soul are the same right they are the same thing absolutely same thing from an advaithic perspective they are the same thing and what what happens after a person die oh that's another part [Laughter] but you can answer it yourself we have already discussed five sheets what dies when the what is uh beyond any doubt what dies physical body dies that is beyond any doubt you're a medical doctor you're an atheist you're a vedante whatever you are you know that the physical body dies death is death of the physical body what about the other four sheets let alone the atman that's a question yes okay little bit relevant to her question what's your name so we are the sachidan and the swarupa and we are not these five sheeps yes so what happens uh what goes from one word to another and how do we get out of this cycle what goes from worth to or not from one birth to another okay so this is related to that how do we get out yes so in the vedantic perspective what goes from or on entire indian philosophical perspective except the materialist charvaka all of them they say it is the physical body that dies but the other four they continue there is no uh no evidence to show that they end with the death of the physical body so that continues that was not born with the birth of the physical body that does not die with the death of the physical body so that continues there it's good that we have the terminology down now so other than the undermaya pranamaya manomaya vignamaya these three together are called the suka shadira subtle body the anandamaya is called the causal body causal body subtle body continues after death it is what travels from body to body and consciousness reflected in it is the sentient being the jiva which we feel the limited being but you the real consciousness the the witness of all of this you don't actually travel from body to body there's no traveling it all occurs or it appears in you the reality you are you experience it right how do we get out of it you get out of it by enlightenment by realization so this entire process of realizing yourself when i realize i am this pure consciousness i am the atman i am the consciousness in which this entire drama is playing i'm already out of it was i ever born as a body no it's like a movie screen on which um like a terrible tragedy is playing like the movie screen asks how do i stop put a stop to this tragedy it's so sad how can i get out of this well one answer might be wait for a while the movie will be over then you'll have a comedy then you ask how do i get out of this round of tragedies and comedies the answer will be you have to stop playing movies but the vedantic answer is you're always out of it what's your problem you're a movie screen you enable the tragedies and committees to be played they are not real you are even when the tragedy is playing there's nothing that has happened to you are perfectly safe even when a committee is playing there's nothing really that has happened you're perfectly safe so upon enlightenment from an advaitic perspective what happens is do we realize i was trapped in this terrible cycle of births and deaths now i am free no more is birth and death for me that's what it seems like that's the story from our perspective from the enlightened person's perspective is i was never trapped in the cycle of birth and death never was i born never did i die never never was i caught in the trap of karma always free you know what sridhara i am that eternally free pure consciousness you say that again and again i'm eternally free pure consciousness i understand that swami but when will i be free what did you just say eternally free no but yes but when will i be free so it is a very interesting philosophy all the other philosophies they will say yes you were bound and by this event enlightenment god's grace samadhi something you will be free there was bondage there is freedom we say well doesn't advaitha then deny the whole thing it does that's why the manduka karika is ultimately there is no beginning there is no cessation and there is no one who is in bondage no one who is free there is no one who is seeking freedom no one even practicing spiritual disciplines you might say ah and that one doesn't practice spiritual siblings and this is the ultimate truth [Music] this is the ultimate truth what is strange it seems like a takedown of all that we know as spirituality and religion but that's the the final vision that's the ultimate perspective i think we can end at this ultimate perspective one question yes hi swamiji uh my name is kiran and my question is during the talk i felt like i logically understood your progression but then my doubt is still uh what if all of this is goes away when you die and it's just a process that's generated by the brain right it could be now that's the um that's the whole question today of what is consciousness a process generated by the brain look at what you are saying in that case you are saying that that what we are is brain and nervous system a system of living matter basically the annamaya with the physiological processes going on there so is that fundamental what is fundamental vedanta says consciousness is fundamental matter appears in consciousness matter is ultimately not distinct from consciousness the materialist reductionist and modern science mainstream science and physiology says matter is real and therefore living matter is real and in living matter somehow the brain produces consciousness and this person you think you are when the body disintegrates the brain dies with it and nervous system perishes and that's the end of consciousness the end of the person there's nothing more that was known as the lokayat or charvaka view in ancient india when you say what's wrong with it what's wrong with it is this you just have to google hard problem of consciousness it we are at a very interesting time in consciousness studies that we are asking how is it that the brain generates consciousness where does it where does electrical activity settle electrical activity in the neurons of the brain in the synapses where does it become mind and consciousness forget our vedantic idea of consciousness and all of this take a simple thing nobody doubts no scientist hardcore reductionist also doesn't doubt that we have thoughts i'm thinking two plus two is four catch that thought see there's a devastating uh i would say a fault line far deeper far more dangerous than the great fault line in california it's devastating what is the devastating fault line something that is so pervasive in our lives as thought feeling emotion has actually no place in science we shouldn't be thinking objects we should only be objects then scientists will be happy it fits the scientific world view but what is a thought you'll see oh that's the finding in the neuron but where is the neuron and firing of the neuron and the thought that i experienced this gap there is no nothing in the universe which has two states an external state and an internal state which we are saying that the brain has brain has two states an external state which you it's public which you can scan and find out you can watch in your fmri machines and an internal state which the person is feeling but no object like that in the universe there's no nothing known in science whichever does that so what is the connection between the brain's activities and consciousness now the verdict is out jury is out on it that's the phrase the jury is out on it we don't know and the hard problem of consciousness david chalmers who is there in new york in the mind brain consciousness unit so he is the one who coined the term the heart problem of consciousness and he says not only do we not know we don't have the faintest clue there are a lot of theories about it now but if you look at it from a vedantic perspective none of them even comes close to solving it why use that simple uh elegant knife i provided you with if any theory of consciousness has an element of this discarded immediately because it's not talking about consciousness it's talking about an object this neuronal activity gone you haven't heard it out and i don't need to hear it you cannot make the jump from an object to the subject you cannot you cannot make the jump they are not on the same plane of reality at all it's like trying to make a jump between the illusory snake to the actual rope you can't they are not in the same plane of reality at all so it cannot be done i know one the neuroscientist was in anger he was saying that oh you don't want a solution it seems to me that the heart problem of consciousness is there to be revered not to be solved but you're not you don't understand in principle you're making a mistake if you can say this complexity in itt theory is now being floated complexity is the source of consciousness this complexity gone finished this all right so we leave it at that thank you so much thank you you're supposed to be at the youtube swami as they were introduced now we know who the youtube audience is so thank you very much for this wonderful exposition of this five sheets which is one of the fundamental teachings of vedanta and and what a long kind of discourse we had on one small question put by the questioner to sharam krishna tell me in one word and yeah one and a half hour in fact i remember one person comes to me and says tell me in one word how to realize god and i was in mayavati that's in the himalayas i looked at him and said in one word just one word i said practice and i stopped there i didn't know i never had to continue so ladies and gentlemen brothers and sisters thank you very much for being here and like i said like swami also emphasized it just needs practice okay say self-inquiry another practice so we are thankful for him to be here and for the last two weeks and enlightening us regaling us with his presence and his next [Music] talk is in santa barbara two days second so we also like to thank swami sarvadevanandaji uh for organizing all these things so that you all can be here and you are specific don't let anyone stay outside bring them all in so they can get enlightened so like i end with practice om shanti shanti shanti i want to say that we wish you that you will be more coming in person but sorry we could not accommodate many of our devotees who feel bad who wanted very several phone calls and can i come can i do so we feel for them that we could not accommodate them but we also feel bad that those who have signed up and didn't appear depriving those earnest people so i really both the days i have observed so i feel little bit sad for that but this is the way it works and you have come and i wish that you should continue vedanto is not ended in one day it is lifelong practice and what pancho this is going on from time it eternal important time is going on and always analyzing analyzing and analyzing that's your constant sadhana thank you all for coming and sorry we could not entertain you with anything and it will continue for some time or more with with some tea or something snacks nothing and we'll continue like that so for the timing till situation improves we are waiting for that thank you all thanks for you

Channel: Vedanta Society of Southern California

Views: 47,270

Rating: 4.9104695 out of 5

Keywords: vedanta, advaita, sarvapriyananda, vivekananda, ramakrishna, jnana, self knowledge

Id: 82wtsvBhvZ8

Length: 93min 40sec (5620 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 14 2021