When Honda took on Ferrari and WON!

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The original NSX Type R was the first naturally aspirated production car to lap the Nürburgring in under 8 minutes.

👍︎︎ 48 👤︎︎ u/Historical-Mood3696 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies

If you think about it, the current NSX is ahead of its time, offering a similar drivetrain as the McLaren Artura, Ferrari 296 GTB, and (possibly) the MC20.

The problem is that the technology wasn't quite ready yet when the current one came out. The electric motors feel like a compensation for the engine, rather than a supplement like the current generation of hybrid supercars.

People compared the NSX to things like an R8 and went "Why would I take the NSX?" whereas the current hybrid stuff is more of a choice between performance and old-school simplicity.

👍︎︎ 83 👤︎︎ u/ToBeNines 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies

A lot of cars wouldn't exist if nobody cared about engineering Ferrari killers.

👍︎︎ 12 👤︎︎ u/bluffbuster 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies

Honda might be leaving F1 but they are currently spanking Ferrari and Mercedes.

👍︎︎ 9 👤︎︎ u/BrandonNeider 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies

Huh, Acura’s logo is just a squished upside down Honda logo

👍︎︎ 15 👤︎︎ u/nicii02 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies

Completely ahead of their time. Both then, and now with the new nsx. Too bad neither sold worth a shit.

Gotta say though, more than any Ferrari, I have posters of the NSX still hanging in my garage. Best car design ever made

👍︎︎ 58 👤︎︎ u/UnpopularOpinion1278 📅︎︎ Jun 28 2021 🗫︎ replies

I was looking at these when I was shopping for the Gallardo. Sometimes I wish I got this instead. Unlike the gallardo, you can fix the shitty gearing with readily available parts. I think they look better, too. The fact its slow is a plus because you can actually use it, parts are available and arent expensive, they sound great.

I do wonder if its just FOMO due to the price, because I can go on nsxprime and look up threads from 2008 and find threads like

"Just got a new to me NSX! Paid $30k" and all of the replies are "They saw you comin!"

Apparently when these werent $80k+ people laughed at you if you "overpaid" at $30k. So thats something.

👍︎︎ 24 👤︎︎ u/CoyotePuncher 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies

Check out this Ferrari Testarossa concept sketch from i think 1978. Pininfarina designer Campoli sketched this one. I think the NSX design clearly originated from this sketch.

https://imgur.com/a/UYQKZGN

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/detroit_testarossa 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies

And then they made new nsx

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/navugill 📅︎︎ Jun 29 2021 🗫︎ replies
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(80s music) When Gordon Murray designed the all-conquering McLaren F1 supercar, he didn’t use a Porsche, Lamborghini or even a Ferrari for inspiration. It was the Honda NSX. Yes, Honda, makers of the humdrum, practical Civic. He liked it so much, he bought one with his own money used it as a daily driver. The NSX was a revolution in supercar design when it launched in 1990. There had been plenty of cool-looking exotic cars, but none had combined this with a truly practical car that could be used, as Gordon Murray found out, day in, day out. The NSX had set a pattern for supercars to come. The bar had been raised. So, just why did Honda make a left turn from practical family cars into making a supercar, and why did it take 26 years between the first generation and second generation car? This is the Honda/Acura NSX Story. (music) Time for another “What’s Under the Cover?”. Have a think about what this car could be, sent in by Patron Art van Scheppingen, and I’ll tell you the answer at the end of the video. Honda became known for their cheap and cheerful economy cars in the frugal 1970s, but they had grander goals. They’d audaciously entered Formula 1 in the 1960s, designing both the engine and the car. By the 1980s Honda were competing in European Formula 2, winning three championships, and by 1983 they’d returned to Formula 1 as an engine supplier. Honda wanted to be known as a premium, performance brand, and started designing a road-going sports car. They experimented with different engine and chassis layouts. Nothing was off the table. One of the test mules they built was a mid-engined, elongated Honda City. The designers loved racing it through the car park so much, they persuaded management to fund a fully formed prototype of a pure sports car. It would appear as the mid-engined HP-X concept at the 1984 Turin Motor Show. Engineered by Honda, but styled by Pininfarina, HP-X stood for “Honda Pininfarina eXperimental”. The 2.0L V6 came straight from their European Formula 2 car. It would use the tricks Honda had learnt in ground effects, while Pininfarina decided the car needed a large one-piece canopy. It was more than just a fanciful concept car though. Under the body was a chassis Honda was using to learn what made a good sports car. They would take this knowledge and feed it into something grander – the “NSX” for “New Sportscar eXperimental”. While arch-rivals Toyota and Nissan were creating sports cars like the Supra and the Z cars, the NSX would be on another level – a Ferrari rival no less, and when the V8 Ferrari 328 was launched in 1985, Honda set their sights on beating this car. The NSX would show Japanese car makers could taken on Europe’s finest not just on the racetrack, but off it as well. Of course, any car that could do this had to be powerful. A 2.0L 4-cylinder engine was initially considered, but quickly discounted. Honda delved in its parts bin and pulled out the 2.7L V6 from Honda’s version of the Rover 800, the Honda Legend. It was known as the Acura Legend in the USA, as Honda had decided to take its premium cars upmarket with a new, exclusive brand, sold out of dedicated, premium dealerships. The Acura name would allow Honda to challenge the best from Europe and North America. But it quickly became clear the Honda Legend’s engine didn’t have the performance to compete with a Ferrari V8, so several different configurations of the V6 were entertained such as a 2.7L single cam version, but they eventually settled on a 3.0L double cam 24V producing 250hp (186 kW) that was so big, the new car’s wheelbase had to be extended. Honda’s extensive experience with Formula 1 engines would show – it was the first engine in a production car with titanium connecting rods and redlined at an extreme 8,300 rpm. It was still not up to the 328’s 266hp (199 kW), but it was getting there. With an underpowered engine, weight became paramount. The lighter the car, the faster it went, and the better it handled, with less mass to change direction in the corners. The monocoque and suspension would be made out of lightweight aluminium, saving nearly 220kg (485 lb) compared to the same parts made from steel. A supercar also needs great handling, but Honda had almost no experience in this area. They hired respected Japanese Formula 1 driver Satoru Nakajima, and he completed many long distance runs to improve the handling. Ayrton Senna had been associated with Honda since Lotus started running Honda V6 engines in 1987. When he switched to McLaren the following year his Honda engine followed, and it would power him to win the 1988 drivers’ championship. So, it was natural that Honda would get Senna to repay the favour by giving feedback on the NSX’s handing. He drove it around several tracks including Suzuka in Japan and the famed Nürburgring in Germany, and after his feedback the team stiffened the chassis. Satoru Nakajima was again brought in to help Honda translate Senna’s suggestions into reality. The team set up base near the Nürburgring, testing for a full 8 months. The process was painstaking – Nakajima would point out where he felt flex, and the engineers would hand-weld aluminium braces in the area that was causing a problem. The results were fed back into the computer that produced the chassis. The result was a 50% increase in stiffness with only a small increase in weight. At the same time, the team was working on perfecting the suspension, again with Senna’s input. Slowly Honda dialled in the car in the hope that their first attempt at a supercar would be the best in its class. Good handling of course is nothing without a good driving position. Interior designers took inspiration from the F-16 fighter. In particular, its clear 360° view from the cockpit, a “cab forward” design to optimise visibility, and the ability to launch missiles at its enemies. OK, maybe not the last one! Honda used four stalks behind the steering wheel, so, like with the F-16, all the controls were immediately to hand. Honda’s history in mass-market cars gave it a deep understanding of good driver ergonomics for all shapes and sizes, and this would make the NSX one of the most comfortable cars in its class. Climate control would keep its occupants in temperate-controlled comfort. The car had a built-in car stereo, and like many cars of the time it had an automatic aerial that popped up when it was in use. Rather oddly it had a button not to retract the aerial all the way down for the car wash, but to retract it half way, presumably just because it looked cooler! It even had cupholders, something you’d never get in a 1980s Ferrari! And unlike some exotic cars, the NSX was designed to be simple to drive. Electric power steering meant you didn’t need a workout to drive it, and anti-lock brakes meant unskilled drivers couldn’t get into too much trouble. A high-performance sports car no longer meant also needing to keep a chiropractor on standby. To style this car, Honda had only one place to look – Pininfarina. They’d worked together to great effect with the HP-X prototype, and they were Ferrari’s go-to stylist, designing the NSX’s direct competitor, the 328. They spoke Honda’s language – quite literally! The designer charged with the NSX project at Pininfarina - Ken Okuyama – was born in Japan and spoke fluent Japanese. He created a sleek design that, if you didn’t see the Honda badge, could have been from any luxury European car company. The large rear overhang added to the 1980s style, but also helped with aerodynamics. Honda had begun a relationship with Austin Rover, working together on the Rover 800 / Acura/Honda Legend. Some feel that Austin Rover’s MG EX-E concept somehow influenced the NSX’s design. There’s no direct evidence for this, although as the EX-E was inspired by the Ferrari 308, they both share a common ancestor. The NSX’s 3.0L V6 was powerful, but Honda’s engineers questioned why it didn’t use their new variable valve VTEC technology, especially as it was slated to be used on the cheaper Acura Integra. At almost the 11th hour, the team reworked the engine, giving it an extra 20hp (15 kW), meaning it now just beat the Ferrari 328. But it now meant the engine wouldn’t fit in the car! Honda would have to tilt the engine backwards 5° to get it to fit. (music) “There are those individuals for whom driving is much more than a mean of achieving a destination." "It is an end in itself. It is for this driver the Acura NSX was crafted.” The NS-X debuted at the Chicago Auto Show – the first Japanese supercar. Honda would badge the car with their luxury Acura brand in North America and Hong Kong, giving their premium brand a boost with a Ferrari-like supercar to put in the showroom. But as Honda were getting the car ready for launch, Ferrari updated the 328 with the 296hp (221 kW) Pininfarina-styled 348. As it was the final car designed under the direction of Enzo Ferrari, it was expected to sell well. Honda had a new target to aim for. Production began in a purpose-built factory, and with Honda not expecting the sort of demand that needed mass production, every car would be hand-built by 200 of Honda’s highest skilled and most experienced workers. Both the Ferrari 348 and the NSX were available to the public at roughly the same time – the end of 1990. Honda waited with bated breath to find out just what the motoring press and the public through of their new creation. Could it hold a candle to the new, more powerful Ferrari? The reviews of the 348 came in, and it was clear the Italian company had stumbled. Yes, it was good looking, yes it drove well, but there were niggles. It had a harsh ride, was hard to drive at the limit and the gearbox was clunky. These problems were amplified when reviewers got into the NSX. The ride had been honed from thousands of miles around the racetrack and worked beautifully. In fact Honda would thank Senna with a couple of NSX’s of his own. The gearbox, like all Honda gearboxes, was just right. You could even get this supercar with, heaven forbid, an automatic. Honda had brought mass market levels of detail to the supercar category, and the Ferrari felt a little rough around the edges. Although the shape didn’t give Honda Accord levels of storage space, there was a decent-sized boot that could swallow a set of golf clubs. Honda managed to squeeze a space saver tyre in the front, which is more than could be said for the 348, which had to make do with a free can of tyre sealer. The NSX had airbags where the Ferrari had none. The NSX had climate control and power steering, the 348’s steering was heavy. The Ferrari was like wearing an Armani business suit every day for a year. You look the business, and you might like it the first few days. But it will soon feel uncomfortable, and you’ll be longing for jeans and a t-shirt. The NSX was like a button-down shirt and jeans. You can still look cool, but it’s the sort of thing you can wear day-in day-out for any occasion. Although the Ferrari V8 engine had the low burbling growl customers wanted, and more horsepower, the car was also heavier. In a drag race, at least according to MotorWeek – the NSX won. Honda were beating Ferrari on the racetrack – they’d just won their 5th straight constructors win as an engine supplier, and now they were beating them on public roads. To cap it all, the Ferrari cost 50% more. That’s an awful lot of money to be paying for a badge, and the prestige that went with it. The NSX could be had for around the same money as a Porsche 911, that it could also beat in a straight fight. Was this the dawn of a new breed of Japanese supercar? Honda would deliver more speed in 1992 with the NSX-R or Type R, the “R” standing for (sound of engine revving) The car was 120 kg (265 lb) lighter after Honda had removed sound deadening, the audio system, the spare tyre, traction control and the air conditioning unit. And yes, you were expected to pay more for this model! You could add the air conditioning and stereo back in as an option, which was nice of Honda. Car reviewers had found the NSX was susceptible to sudden oversteer in some extreme corning manoeuvres, usually only found on a racetrack. To address this, Honda installed two brackets to increase the car’s rigidity, and replaced the standard suspension for a firmer, track version. The seats were swapped out for lightweight carbon-Kevlar ones. Alloy wheels were replaced with lighter versions. Gearbox ratios were adjusted for improved acceleration at the expense of top speed. The automatic gearbox was, of course, not available! The engine was pretty much the same as the standard engine, but the track NSXs would use parts that were precision weighed so that all components fell within a very small tolerance, like Honda’s motorsport engines. This resulted in a more powerful, free-revving powerplant with excellent throttle response. To showcase the new, more powerful NSX, Honda took the car to the 24 hours of Le Mans, winning its class in 1995. For drivers looking for creature comforts rather than that extra ounce of power, the 1995 NSX-T offered a removable targa top. This meant adding 45kg (100 lb) of structural reinforcements to compensate for the lack of a roof, but despite this, it became the most popular model, particularly in North America. Honda tweaked the suspension and gear ratios to make the car more driveable, and a new electronic throttle system increased corner exit speeds by 10%. Sales were respectable, but customers still preferred the Ferrari 348 that was so unloved by motoring critics. Honda was new to the supercar game, and it was maybe more natural for customers to start shopping for supercars at a Ferrari showroom than their local Honda dealer. And then there was the allure of that Ferrari badge. An Acura, or heaven forbid, a common or garden Honda badge just didn’t cut it. The type II NSX launched in 1997. The engine was updated to comply with pesky new emissions regulations, but this wasn’t the only fun and exciting change! The displacement was increased to 3.2L, giving it 290hp (216 kW) and roughly the same acceleration as the stripped-down NSX-R. Although the NSX-R was no longer sold, a similar model – the NSX Type S would be available as a Japan exclusive. It used a few of the NSX-R’s weight-savings tricks, saving 45kg (100 lb) over the standard model, but this car came with all the modern conveniences, even an optional navigation system which bumped the weight back up. The Type S-Zero was closer to the NSX-R - a stripped down track day special. Well, except it still had air conditioning, I mean NSX drivers weren’t animals! The Type S-Zero could get around the Suzuka track 1½ seconds faster than the old NSX-R. To celebrate Alex Zanardi’s two back-to-back Honda-powered CART championship wins, the Zanardi special edition NSX appeared in 1999, despite the fact that Zanardi was now racing, and mostly retiring from Formula 1 races using an old Renault engine. The car was essentially a Japanese Type S with a few Zanardi CART tie-ins, such as red flourishes to reflect the colour of the winning car Zanardi drove for the Chip Ganassi Racing team. After 12 years, the NSX received its first facelift in 2002. It got decidedly worse with Honda replacing the cool pop-up headlights for boring fixed lights, but it saved weight. The lower drag from the new design gave the car a little bit more zip, but the fastest model was again the Japan-exclusive NSX-R. The fully loaded car could beat the competition in 1990, but 12 years later the NSX would need to be stripped down, with a new lightweight carbon fibre bonnet and spoiler to keep up with them. Ferrari had replaced the unloved 348 in 1995 with the F355, then the 360, and then the F430. Honda had barely changed their car since its launched almost 15 years earlier, and it was looking decidedly out of date. With sales slowing to a trickle, it wasn’t much of a surprise when Honda announced the long-running NSX would be discontinued after selling a little over 18,000 cars. The low demand and increasingly tough environmental regulations made it tough to continue selling the car. When it was cancelled Honda promised they were working on a successor. By 2007 they told the press it would be faster, with a V10 engine, and would arrive by 2010. Prototypes were seen in 2008 at the Nürburgring. But progress was slow and was made even slower with the global recession, when Honda announced the new NSX had been cancelled! They’d taken Ferrari on at their own game, and in Honda’s eyes they’d won. But where a couple of thousand sales per year might be enough for Ferrari, it was small potatoes for Honda who made most of their revenue from their mainstream car business. Honda, like Ford with their GT40, had proved their point. They took their ball and they went home. But like Ford and their GT40, Honda had a change of heart. By 2010 the V10 had turned into a 500hp (373 kW) V8, but when it was unveiled at the 2012 North American International Auto Show the V8 had now become a V6, powering the rear wheels. The new NSX would also use a hybrid powertrain to drive all four wheels. Honda claimed this would give better handling and acceleration than the 4.5L V8 Ferrari 458, while offering better fuel economy. “I want it, I would love to have the first one!" "I’m so sorry Mr. Seinfeld, but you’re number 2 on the list. Who’s number 1?" "That guy. OK!" "So, you’re number 1. Yeah. How’d you like to be number 20?” The new car got its own Super Bowl commercial in 2012, then Honda went quiet for two years until at the end of 2014 they announced the finished car would debut at the 2015 North American International Auto Show. Where the original NSX had been built in Japan, the new model would be built in Ohio, but again to Honda’s exacting standards. The slightly larger NSX again used an aluminium monocoque to save weight. Like the first car, the front windscreen would fishbowl to give great all-round visibility. The twin-turbo 500hp (373 kW) 3.5L V6 engine was boosted to as much as 573hp (427 kW) with the hybrid powertrain, giving an astounding 0-60 time of just 2.7 seconds with a top speed of 193mph (310 km/h). Like many modern high-performance cars, only one gearbox was available – a 9-speed semi-automatic with dual clutch delivering the convenience of an automatic with the instant acceleration and control of a manual. It included a special “quiet” mode that used electrical power as much as possible so you can sneak up on your enemies, although doing it in a bright red sports car might not be the stealthiest way to do it! The NSX might be a step change from the original car, but the competition had caught up. There were several similar cars on the market that had learnt from the original NSX and had improved on it, especially if price wasn’t an issue. Honda’s new car wasn’t the earthquake the original NSX had been – it was just another clever supercar. At getting on for £150,000 ($156,000 in the US, €174,000, $275,000 AUD), it was still cheaper than a Ferrari, but it wasn’t exactly an impulse buy. Technology inside the car seemed a little dated. The in-car entertainment system, ripped from a Honda Civic featured navigation courtesy of Garmin, little changed from something you stuck on your dashboard in 2007, and if you wanted Sirius satellite radio it would cost you an extra $500, plus the monthly subscription fee. Thankfully, Android Auto and Apple Carplay allowed you to bypass all of that for a more modern experience. Like with the first NSX, the new model would also go racing, winning the Japanese Super GT championship in 2018. The following year the NSX was updated with a stiffened chassis, and software improvements unlocked more power from the hybrid system that got it around the Suzuka track 2 seconds faster than the old car. But sales weren’t as good as Honda had hoped. In 2020 Audi sold 538 R8’s in the US, Mercedes had sold 2,400 AMG-GTs, but Acura could only shift 128 NSX’s. The NSX was discontinued in Australia in 2020, and despite its Japanese motorsports victory, sales ended in Japan in 2021. The NSX set a new bar not just in handling, but in comfort and ease of use when it launched in 1990. It would force all of its competition, including Ferrari to up their game. Not bad for a car maker that just 15 years earlier had been laughed at for making cheap, tinny econoboxes. Although Ayrton Senna might not be with us, his DNA lives on in a car he helped shape – something that can be felt every time someone takes the NSX to the limit. So, what’s under the cover? This is a car I’ve been wanting to do a video on for quite a while now, and I really should get around to doing it! If you guessed it’s Japanese, have a point. If you guessed it’s a Toyota MR2, have another point, and you get all three points if you got it’s a mk1 Toyota MR2.
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Channel: Big Car
Views: 242,397
Rating: 4.9269671 out of 5
Keywords: honda nsx, acura nsx, honda nsx story, acura nsx story
Id: LUH2PFUROYA
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 24min 30sec (1470 seconds)
Published: Fri Jun 18 2021
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