When a Killer Realizes He Was Wearing an Ankle Monitor

who was in the car with you i'm not doing nothing i want to know who pulled the trigger brian go to the gas station i'm promising this way everything's gonna be all right i don't understand why he killed her you know she did everything he asked bro right and he shot her in the back of the head bro i literally see sitting in the pressure she's looking at her hair it was like some slow-motion bro like i don't know what to do again bro del sisson was driving past sayodo grove metro park on february 9 2017 when he spotted a man standing by a car on the side of the road dale got out of the vehicle and asked if he needed assistance the man richard bonner replied don't you see it he pointed into the snowy grass several feet into the park dale saw what looked like a mannequin in the snow on the side of the road as he got closer it became clear that he was in fact looking at a nude female body lying on her back with her left arm over her face blood covered her head and face the result of two gunshot wounds we've got cars going to 104 okay and all they could give us was the sciota grove metro park so i'm not sure like if it's at the entrance there is possibly a body it's gonna be he said possibly a female who is bloody with an arm over the face okay when crime scene investigators arrived on the scene at seyoto grove park they discovered that the woman was wearing a gold-colored chain necklace and a pendant with blue and white colored stones as well as ball shaped earrings in her ears these would be useful to help identify the body as would the oval-shaped tattoo on the left side of her torso it wouldn't take long for that identification as columbus police were in the process of filing a missing person report filed by roommates of 21 year old osu student reagan delaney toaks who didn't return home from her job at the bodega bar on february 8 the day before her body was discovered reagan had last been seen leaving work that night at 9 30 p.m her car a 1999 silver acura was also missing on february 10th officers located the missing vehicle at 708 oakwood avenue where it had been abandoned during their investigation they discovered a condom and plastic ties near the car itself in the trunk they found a red gas can missing its spout which they found in the grass a short distance away the inside of the vehicle smelled strongly of gasoline they found latent prints which they collected for the lab as well as three chase bank receipts a mcdonald's receipt several napkins and a tube of burt's bees lip wax ashes were found in the car's cup holder which belonged to one of the greatest finds a cigarette butt when the dna on the cigarette was processed it matched one brian goldsby a tier three offender and former convict out of prison on parole by this time the police had gathered a significant amount of information through interviews tips and cctv and had a pretty good idea of what transpired after reagan left bodega on the fateful day that would be her last they sent a swat team to brian's home and at 4am on february 11th they arrested him he was then brought to the police department for interrogation this is 30 year old brian goldsby having experienced a troubled childhood he began to build an extensive history of petty thefts starting at the age of 13. in november 2010 the severity of his crimes escalated as he abducted a woman and her two-year-old child forced her to withdraw money from atms made her engage in non-consensual oral activities at her home then stole her dvd player he served six years in prison for this crime chalking up 52 serious infractions during his incarceration now he finds himself in the hot seat again this time for kidnapping assault and murder of 21 year old ohio state university student reagan tokes however through the course of his interrogation a story that began as a simple robbery attempt became something far more sinister than anyone could have ever imagined the following never-before-seen footage has been analyzed by a qualified team including a licensed attorney and former criminal prosecutor a licensed clinical psychologist and a former licensed professional counselor [Applause] is [Music] and then i have no problem i'll work with you you work with me here's the thing [Music] sometimes interrogators will use a quid pro quo a latin phrase that literally translates to this for that or something for something to get information from a suspect a quid pro quo in this context is when the interrogator gives the suspect something that either seems to be a secret or as a favor like a cigarette in exchange for something the interrogators want from the suspect which is usually information i'm nick nice to meet you sorry we've been under these circumstances have you consumed drugs or alcohol in last 12 hours his admission to recent marijuana use may be a factor in brian's seemingly relaxed state the detectives have him follow along as they read his miranda rights then signed to acknowledge that he understands them for that please all you when they put that right on that's it when they had them some flex cuffs on you that's when they cut that how about they pinch you it's like a triangle and these guys [Music] the officers are being friendly and straightforward with brian which is a component of the read interrogation technique generally officers will begin with a non-confrontational approach to build rapport which often changes to more direct and aggressive questioning as they get to the important questions or if the suspect is dishonest or uncooperative brian you're not here by accident all right didn't it just happened to us i'm here upon this and you're here you're here because we have a pretty good amount of evidence on what happened we are staying at on fourth street all right i know it's the ankle monitor so it's a group home correct you just got out of prison okay and you enable modern art obviously i'm just tracking you the ankle monitor is an important part of evidence in this case as it reports not only where he's been but also a timeline of the locations that brian has visited the lead detective leaves momentarily to get brian a band-aid for a cut on his arm then resumes the interrogation where were you wednesday night now remember before you start talking and we want to know the truth okay that's all we're after we know what's going on we just want to know the why okay so where were you wednesday suggesting that the detectives already know that he's committed the crime and are only interested in finding out the motive or part of the read techniques positive confrontation method this technique encourages brian to forego denials and affords him the opportunity to explain what happened [Music] me was i might have a pack let me go see i'm going to have to put you in some shackles blake shackles we're going to go outside you know what i'm saying yeah we can't smoke in here hey they're going to want to know we have to get all kinds of permissions before we do this right because to smoke yes because i got to take you out of here today i can't let you open here and they're going to ask and see being cooperative is he telling you what you want to know so the way that that works you give me a little bit we'll verify that you're telling the truth we'll give you a give-and-take relationship the detectives reinforce the give and take relationship they're trying to establish to motivate brian to be honest and straightforward with them and as a way to continue to build rapport tell me the truth where were you wednesday what was going on [Music] the officers spent the first 10 minutes trying to establish a timeline of the evening i was over my girl's house [Music] [Music] even though it's easy for detectives to discover his girlfriend's name brian refuses to provide names for anyone possibly because of his general distrust for police or to avoid being considered a snitch his girlfriend's name is hadeshay hattie jackson and she has a role to play in the story as well hattie actually spoke to an officer and described her relationship with brian it was really strange to me because usually they um let you meet the people who's close to them unless they really like you or something like that but to me it was too early to for that so um i thought i asked him for money yeah no no i didn't know you were just talking about we uh i never got to that point with him i don't know why usually i would just and then just leave in my my own business um i don't like relationships i'm not comfortable around males all that so i've tried not to get in a committed relationship i ignored him because he wouldn't give me my money not because again i have not had with him at all but i was in a desperate situation and i didn't want to continue the relationship [Music] did you when answering the questions brian often looks up and takes a long time to respond while this may simply indicate that he's thinking it's also possible that he's taking extra time to conjure lies especially since these events occurred only a few days ago and shouldn't be so difficult to recall [Music] even as the detectives are lightened the mood a little brian's demeanor doesn't change at all despite his seemingly calm appearance he's probably extremely stressed which is understandable considering he's being interrogated he also has no interest in building rapport with the detectives during brian's 2010 interrogation for kidnapping robbing and assault that led to his previous six-year incarceration he wasn't as calm and collected as he is here please note that the following clip has poor video quality let's talk about where we got the dvd player brian and brian right i told you right now no you didn't right it was about the problem we're past that point okay dude i got you on video okay we're not gonna sit here and play this game anymore i've got you on video at the atm after you freaking rob the girl last night you ain't got me on the video i got you on video you got me on video you know who all the way you said rob somebody yeah man you're crazy bro did you took her dvd she gave it to me bro why would she give you she gave it to me why would she give her she gave it to her why tell me why she she's giving you already so why is she gonna give you the dvd player we got in the house i've seen the bags in there i'm like oh [ __ ] i did she's like you don't even know what it is i'm like uh but oh it's a dvd player let me have it my birthday coming up in january she says okay sweetie you can have it so i left after that after she then she went upstairs and gave me came back downstairs grabbed the bag and then left why she pissed why is she so pissed with you i don't know why she's telling us different stories that you robbed her last night did you held her right one aspect of brian's body language between the two interrogations is the same crossed arms this indicates that his arms hugging his torso is likely due to him feeling stressed about being interrogated rather than a result of him being cold as he mentioned earlier when someone feels threatened they often withdraw their arms as a way to protect their body despite brian's different approach to the detectives now there are many similarities between this former case and reagan toke's murder dvd player what else did you say her cash how much money she gave that to me she gave me 40 how much did you spend on me so you kept five dollars yes all right now when you got back to the apartment the mercedes pulls up tell me what's going on there when you guys are sitting there nothing we all are we are having a conversation she walked by a coaching [Music] detectives are aware of this footage and the details of his previous case and take this into account when considering what brian has to say during the current interview we know what happened [Music] tell me what happened i want you to talk about that well that's what the cooperation is yet man i i honestly said he said i'll give him some if you give me some i haven't got nothing i gave him a little bit so far it's very suspicious that brian hasn't asked who or what they're questioning him about as an innocent person would be concerned about this information furthermore it's becoming clear to detectives that he will not participate unless he receives a clear benefit this is actually something they can use to their advantage [Music] all right you probably won't buy one value for a whole cigarette let me be half of it then we can hit the rest of it later okay having determined that brian will need additional motivators the lead detective maintained some leverage by limiting him to half of the cigarette that way he has another bargaining chip later when he needs it all right give me a minute let me get you a pack [Music] since we're already gonna do it can i see i'm not gonna touch [Music] this is the second time that brian's expressed interest in the documents sitting on the detective's desk this is one of the first visible signs of concern he's exhibited so far got some [Music] officers provide brian with a jumpsuit to keep him warm to gain additional goodwill along with the promised smoke break with the smoke break concluded detectives returned to the interview room with brian this is known as the turtle effect typically this involves pulling the head down raising the shoulders and trying to be as small as possible it usually occurs when someone is uncomfortable with the people around them or the situation they're in although some dismiss body language analysis is pseudoscience it's used by the fbi and cia during interrogations when the cia is interrogating an individual they look for clusters of three or more indicators that occur in either quick succession or all at once these indicators can be signs of discomfort or uncertainty in what the individual is stating rather than indicators of deception it's extremely important to note that you cannot detect deception through body language analysis alone this is where this cooperation thing is going to start her in you know stuff i know i don't really show you [Music] how about [Music] walking the church is right here so if you look down that's high street that's where she would park there's a bar down there all right so this is the church right here do you want to have a circle right there okay pretty cool yeah so that's all i get to follow [Music] but then i know you did but then you you you saw the scroll all right tell me about what happened [Music] it's kind of hard [Music] the secondary detective is attempting to minimize the crime and relate to him so that brian will admit more is somebody heard or something [Music] brian decides to play dumb here seemingly unwilling to admit to anything until he has a better idea of what detectives really know we just talk about this camera you just need some money you get it you needed to get it i needed to get back to your police accident happening um still not well tell you tell us about her all right about what was going on [Music] [Music] tell me about the girl tell me about why you got the car with her did she invite you in the car can we do this [Music] me [Music] what's going on [Music] i'll tell you everything about that here brian attempts to take control of the investigation and ensure that he doesn't confess to anything that he's not forced to admit he seems to want to negotiate with officers but his feigned confusion isn't very convincing [Music] receipts tried to get 500 out she didn't have it tried to get 60 out or you know you didn't get 60 yeah yeah then there was 17 left in the chat with 200 and it was gone all right she got in the car we know that did she invite you in the phone did she invite you in the car no brian's admission that he wasn't invited into reagan's vehicle is a large first step and the detective praises him encouraging further cooperation it's interesting that he didn't try to make up a scenario where she invited him in as this story paints him in a bad light but perhaps he knew that wouldn't be believable given his criminal history did you draw what was her reaction when he got in the car with her was she scared nervous upset did she like you did you think you were nice did you treat her right and you told her you wanted what detectives have now established that he was in fact in the car with her and that he had an interest in robbery of course they do have a lot of information from their research into the case and are mostly interested in brian's admission one tool at their disposal is cctv at 4 57 pm reagan is shown leaving her home for her job at the bodega bar and grill where she'll work until her shift ends around 9 45 p.m meanwhile at 7 08 pm brian goldsby boards a central ohio transit authority bus which will take him to the area of the bodega bar notice that he's wearing a large white puffy coat near the end of reagan's shift she eats dinner at the bar and at 9 45 pm leaves turning east on third avenue where her car is parked gps coordinates recovered from brian's ankle monitor showed that he'd been roaming the area outside the bar for some time before reagan left work and the two intersected at the location of her silver acura shortly after brian's gps picked up speed indicating that he was now in her vehicle rather than walking around on [Music] so you foot dragged the chase you got chase around 10 o'clock do you try [Music] there's like a 30 minute delay and try together what happens 30 minutes did you get some food or anything did you get a little action detective forney's rather unexpected question here may be a reference to brian's previous case pointing out similarities between the two are you sure pretty girl i mean i mean did you know you had an important something all right [Music] [Music] they have video cameras that you can't and there's someone on the top and there's some a couple other places [Music] even after the officers explain that they can see him pointing something at reagan in the car brian denies ever having a gun he may be concerned that he could find himself in far worse trouble than robbery if he admits to having one theft becomes aggravated robbery when a weapon is introduced [Music] brian's ankle monitor gps records indicated that before he was caught on cctv boarding the coda bus he was in the vicinity of 17th avenue there he visited his girlfriend hattie's family even though she wasn't present at the time however brian's denials about having a gun were about to fall apart leonte brown stated that he was on his way to the house to see his girlfriend talia nathan he met brian at a bus stop along the way and walked with him to the house during this time he claimed that brian told him that he'd purchased a gun although leonte didn't see it when they arrived brian texted talia hadashi's cousin to let her know they were there and she let them into the house she explained that brian took off the white puffy cove that detectives witnessed on the cctv footage and put it on the couch he then warned her that the coat had a gun inside so that she and leonte's toddler son wouldn't touch it at six o'clock p.m had a shay's to and tawanna richards arrived at the residence and attempted to move the coat off her couch noticing that it felt heavy brian grabbed the coat from her explaining that there was a gun in the pocket none of the three actually laid eyes on the gun itself but this conversation took place while reagan was still at work meaning that brian had a firearm shortly before his encounter with her outside the bodega so how much money did you get [Music] that's it and she had no tips no nothing from where she would work [Music] the day after reagan's murder brian visited tawana richard's house again while he was sitting on the couch she observed him counting a stack of money which she believed to be around two hundred dollars this money is believed to have come from reagan's purse you're being straight right now let's stay on that room beginning again okay so after shades after you leave chains where do you go next picture what was wrong card wasn't working or she was she out putting her pen i mean is it just rejecting she have no money what hunting did you guys do [Music] [Music] didn't work but the huntington didn't work went back to chase tried a different card great right 60 out then you decided to try the other card again right and didn't work we're from there we leave chase you only i'll throw a time reference out because we know what time it was 10 33 yeah the second time and yellow left together where'd y'all go from there brian's method of operation seems to be only admitting to information where he knows the detectives have video confirmation such as at atms he's touching his face often now which is a self-soothing gesture often used when a person is feeling uncomfortable and then there's a gas up till 11 40 when i got you at turkey hill getting gas is that right did you use a card she did did she fill it up okay so now we're chase grove city it's only 15 minute drive where's that whole hour ago man i gave you something [Music] um it's during this period of time that the officers suspect that he assaulted reagan and brian seems to have a clear understanding that making any admissions related to this incident can place him in significantly more trouble than only the kidnapping and robbery charges he expects [Music] somebody pick me up brian has his hand in front of his mouth while he's talking which could be a sign that he is being deceptive people who are lying may hide their mouth in an attempt to cover the lie touching one's face can also be self-soothing during times of high stress brian it's back i'm not giving you up just gave you turkey yeah you didn't give me nothing i said that you if you if you tell me i'm like i'm just going to guess yeah well some of the stuff is something some of the stuff in here written and we don't have i don't i didn't make photographs of turkey have a whole bunch of pictures i do but there are different things okay [Music] it's becoming frustratingly clear to the detectives that brian isn't going to present any new information on his own he's determined only to commit to something when he knows they have irrefutable evidence he has a lot of experience with law enforcement which influences how he interacts with them we're not to the point in the story yet where there's other more when you lay it out i'll explain it i'll explain everything using the read technique of interrogation detectives present a piece or two of evidence at a time and give the suspect time to build a story around that evidence they then introduce another piece of evidence especially when the story differs from what the detectives know to be true brian's stubborn refusal to play along is derailing their attempt to use the tactic to its full efficiency we have the receipts all right we have i can't i'm not gonna show you that stuff yet i'm gonna show you everything else i have [Music] you need to tell me where you drive around [Music] that much there man you're all worried about that packing i'm not there's [Music] this is pretty much stuff that's the only thing i haven't seen is a picture of a car right i mean let's get there i want to get there man all right i need to know about when you went to the park [Music] left when the detectives don't produce any photos to suggest otherwise brian reinforces his version of events although detectives know he's lying she just dropped off there then where did you go [Music] i [Music] all right that's you that's what these other pictures are man usb would you buy speedway after brian's attempt to have the detectives put all the evidence on the table the detectives methodically produce more photos to put him on edge as he doesn't know what else they may still have there you go again that's what this is showing what you bought right that looks like gas canyon [Music] spout that's over in oakland avenue as far as pictures go that's [Music] [Music] brian seems excited when he believes that the detective has presented him with all the evidence probably thinking he can continue to deny anything else the detective is quick to assure him that he has more evidence than what he's presented as a countermeasure from there you go to the park and you do what what did what happened you pull in there was the gate open shut what was going on that part the actual grounds was shut right see you pulling the entrance yeah okay when you left there you you got her out of the car you get in the driver's seat from there yes [Music] you ever take your clothes off no all right no she takes them off them herself i didn't have her i didn't even take the clothes off i did not have her take her clothes off was somebody with you no okay i didn't have to take clothes on as expected brian denies having anything to do with reagan after supposedly letting her out of the vehicle it's important to note that when the officers ask if anybody else was involved he states that he was alone what happened i believe um ryan this is the this is the important part you never take your clothes off right [Music] the detective shoots down brian's denials here which is part of the read technique designed to keep the suspect's confidence low as often the more they are allowed to deny the more comfortable they feel making those denials you didn't mean to do this things got out of control you panicked i get it i understand you're not a bad dude man we're sitting here talking to you you're not a bad dude the officer moves to another reed strategy trying to make brian feel comfortable enough to make admissions by suggesting that what happened was an accident and that he's understanding this is designed to make the suspect feel like there's no judgment downplaying the incident this offers him an out making it easier to admit than saying the crime was done in a cold and calculated manner things spiral and get out of control quickly we've been doing this job for many years it happens it gets the best of everyone right brian shifts in his chair likely a sign that he's feeling uncomfortable when someone is sitting in a chair they have three points that anchor them to that position the back feet and buttocks in an interrogation situation when a suspect moves these parts of the body it's likely a way for them to try and dissipate feelings of anxiety all of a sudden you're doing something and it's going wrong out of out of control means you took you had to take the clothes off all right it seems that when brian asked what out of control meant he was considering latching on to this suggestion that what happened was accidental i just told you i did it you understand no [Music] you don't i didn't have a clothes off i've been honest with you so [Music] [Music] never ever why are we at this point here that you're stopping what we're at the point cuz i gave you pretty much everything i know brian claims that he's giving them pretty much everything he knows this is known as using an exclusion qualifier and it can be an indicator of possible deception by qualifying his statement with pretty much he's able to give them some information but not the whole truth the interesting part about this type of lie is he's actually being honest he's giving them pretty much everything he knows except what he can't tell them brian's hands are open palm side up which is often interpreted as a pleading behavior it indicates that he wants the detectives to believe he's telling the truth even though he may not feel a hundred percent confident about what he's saying [Music] you are all right you're being truthful and honest about everything so far with the exception of this so you let her out right and she is found naked and dead the next day all right it's freezing all right listen listen listen to nobody all right [Music] it's freezing cold out so let's just listen we go along with your story all right you let her out it's freezing cold out what you're telling me what's she gonna do i don't know where she goes get the hell out of there and run to the house [Music] that anybody in the right mind would do that if she just went through all this and let her out and she's going to go she's going to run into bob's house i don't know what she's going to do i didn't shoot nobody brian doesn't even refer to reagan directly when defending himself choosing to say i didn't kill nobody rather than i didn't kill her or that girl while he does use the pronoun her from time to time it's never in association with her death this may indicate that he's attempting to distance himself from her despite his anger at being accused brian shows no emotion or surprise whatsoever when he learns the fate of reagan tokes this may be an indication that he already knows what happened to her it could also be a symptom of antisocial personality disorder or apd people with apd have a much higher threshold for showing emotion or feelings and don't feel fear worry or guilt the way that others do which is why some people are able to commit horrific crimes it's important to note that to our knowledge brian has not been diagnosed with apd well what other explanation could there be she will you drop where you guys pull into the park right okay she's found the head naked right there i what other explanation i don't know about any other explanation of nothing i didn't shoot nobody there but i've never shot a gun in my life let's just let's just think this through can we can we at least do that i mean i i'm not self-centered by any means necessary you know what you're telling me you're trying to tell me that i shot somebody i didn't shoot somebody i've told you everything that i i even gave you this that i would gas can when i got the car you know i tried to burn the car because i had a car but as far as me shooting somebody shoot nobody for the first time he offers an admission that was not dragged out of him in an attempt to distance himself from the idea that he murdered reagan however expending the extra effort and taking the risks involved with burning the vehicle seems beyond what is necessary for a simple robbery all right so when she got out of the car did you give her anything just give her a phone to give her her her purse her her code do you give her anything well i got rid of all of that what'd you do with it um where's all that i don't know that where's all that i need you to say that you're saying you didn't shoot her where's all that stuff well that will prove you didn't shoot her we know where you put her stuff [Music] it's probably it's probably gone by now it's in the trash right it's in the downstream speedway don't stress for you right now i'm just kidding [Music] once more brian takes extra time when trying to remember what he did with her belongings something which should be easy for him to recall taking her belongings in the first place is another act which seems unnecessary if robbing reagan was all that he'd done not only this but the evidence would tell a shocking story a crime stopper tip revealed the unexpected location of reagan's purse described as a high quality black purse with a red lining according to the source it ended up in the hands of hattie jackson brian's girlfriend the source of the tip may have been katherine gehart hattie's aunt as she told officers that she'd submitted a crime stopper tip related to the purse in that crime stopper report the source alleged that hattie took the purse wiped off the blood put her own stuff inside and laughed about what happened to reagan tokes though this has never been confirmed did you see her with the purse yeah yeah i did see her with the purse uh i was here with my cousin while we were packing up this stuff i wore gloves because before that i knew she had i had heard and i and i seen her with the person so i didn't want my fingerprints on anything so i wore gloves like to pack up all her stuff and she was talking all kinds of trash and everything and i seen it with the purse that's when i took a picture what day was that do you remember uh it was it was valentine's day okay uh tuesday my sister her mother came in grabbed up the purse or whatever and that's when we argued and everything and i told her i said you know you're dead wrong for you know having that young lady's purse and everything and you knew what he did and you knew his background and you brought him around the family so it was a lot of that and we was down the street and she said she's gonna call police uh if i hit her because i was gonna beat her up for for that and i said we'll call them because soon as they show up i'm gonna point directly at you and let them know that you have this young lady spurs so that does not sit right with me like because she doesn't care what happened to that young lady and i think it's [ __ ] excuse me but that's [ __ ] yeah this information certainly shed a bad light on hattie jackson detectives were very interested to understand her side of the story how's the time to be perfectly honest with me the silence draws out before hattie finally answers when someone's response to a simple question is delayed it can be a red flag of deception the deceptive person is likely trying to think about what they're going to say someone who's being truthful would be able to respond right away when he gave me the purse he didn't show up to the house until 2 00 in the morning what'd he show up in he showed up at my house he gave me sixty dollars yes he gave me sixty dollars and he gave me the purse i was like okay you didn't have to do this and then i already had a pepper spray in it with some lotion and i dig them in and they had the wallet in it too this would be the sixty dollars that brian was able to get from reagan at the atms to get flag you know three where is that at so he's like well why are you on rabbit hey i just wanted to just you know give it to you like that i was like okay whatever it's incredible that among these other items hattie is able to discount a wallet inside the purse after brian told her it was a new purse again there's a long silence before hattie responds another indicator of possible deception all the way brand new is because it had that spot like a liquid spot or something or lipstick and where'd he say he got it target actually i was she took the carp that would tear us what type of trash can trashcan he's going to be little [Music] damn [Music] i just know it's there help me find it where's that can i get something else what do you mean i don't know i mean what else you want what else are y'all willing to give me because they're not gonna give me everything his request here is manipulative a further indication that he's self-serving and wants to see what the detectives will offer him rather than providing any information for the sake of being honest or helpful okay now as far as you shooting somebody there's someone explaining to me this and you just said that i had her get naked and i got in the passenger seat and i left and his concern about being accused of murder brian slips up and admits that he did in fact have reagan undress this completely changes the story that he's been presenting to detectives the detectives don't respond to this change immediately and they focus on getting confirmation that he'd assaulted the victim the lead detective reminds brian that they have his dna on file and that they found dna inside her body he asks if that dna is going to be a match and brian states that it will not be his why did you get her name just help me understand that how did you make it so she wouldn't be able to go nowhere when i was you know like when you dropped her and left you just didn't you wanted her to be naked so she wouldn't know where to go or have no problem yeah i mean as far as killing somebody killed my weapon [Music] okay so you're telling me you've never shot a gun ever handle a gun when investigators interviewed callan hartley an acquaintance who knew brian for a long time through the department of youth services they learned that he had actually met with him the day before the murder when did you see that gun uh i seen it all the time it was a black it was a black revolver so your jacket is going to be collected and i am pretty certain there's going to be gunshot residue there may also be blood or dna on his clothes which can help investigators with their case and um positively certain there's not going to be no good resume why why why everything why are you giving me [Music] banging his hand on the table is an exaggerated gesture to try to make him seem more believable at this point detectives more than likely have enough circumstantial evidence on all aspects of reagan's murder but the defense would claim that someone else came along after he left her at the park and killed her while unlikely it's still possible that a jury could view this as sufficient cause for reasonable doubt so the detectives want a confession all right let's there's this hole let's let's just go over your store you pulling to the park right in the gates closed right don't they got cameras out there they should have cameras out doctor they don't brian's entire demeanor changes as he references park cameras more than likely he already knew there were no cameras there which is why he took her there to commit the atrocities in the first place i didn't shoot nobody in the head man that you i understand how this game works i understand what happens no i'm not talking about i'm not talking about that okay let me rephrase that word i'm not understood [Music] i understand how this police investigation you know [Music] tv says good cop good cop bad cop stuff but you're you're still trying to get me to admit to something i didn't do it i've already admitted to taking it to the bank and having to get money out of the bank just now you're trying to tell me that i killed somebody i didn't kill nobody man like many narcissists brian thinks he's smarter than he is and knows more than he does nonetheless he does provide important insight as to how he views the investigation process brian is using more hand gestures and is sitting up right now suggesting that his confidence has increased from earlier he may believe that the detectives don't have enough evidence that he did more than robber so he's feeling relieved and more relaxed someone sees your car a car parked at the same time that you're down there okay they don't think a whole lot about it because there's always usually a police cruiser sitting there so they think it's a police cruiser then they hear gunshots okay at first they think well maybe it's a game arranger putting down a wounded animal or something and then the car leaves at the exact same time that you guys were there you guys like okay so let me you said so somebody said that they don't know would you say somebody said that they did what about uh honey if someone someone heard gunshots out there all right okay how can we explain that this is an interrogation technique known as planting seeds of doubt i couldn't tell you man i don't i don't know nothing about no gun man i told you there's no cameras out there i know but you know that like whenever you go into something they have a counter because they want to know how many people is going into the park right so there's a box there and it's called a clicker and every time a car goes through there it it keeps track of it okay right so at the time that you guys are in there it says yeah hey there's a car in there then the car leaves and then there's no other car until like 6 00 a.m so there was no one else back there there's no other car back there so are you telling me that somebody can't walk on foot or yet you're still trying to go back to me shoot somebody [Music] you keep telling me about this um you have a gun yeah i mean i didn't you have all of this stuff your pictures that are done is probably in there [Music] once you're probably not showing it i mean if it is then you probably would have showed me you you could say something to me right now about it i don't listen i'm not having hell i haven't had a gun in many many years man once more brian is fishing for information as to what evidence the detectives have so he can continue to make denials i bet if my fingerprints don't feel no good what if they are i know my fingerprints are gone i haven't held a gun in years right you're not hearing what i'm saying man you're not hearing what i'm saying i don't know what else you want me to give you man you asked me to all of these questions and i've told you everything nobody in your right mind is going to admit to nothing like this when brian taps on the table with his hand he's using an illustrator to emphasize his point however when illustrators are mis-timed this can indicate possible deception brian's hand tapping on the table doesn't match up with the words coming out of his mouth illustrator should sync up to natural punctuation points but brian seems to be random and then suddenly during the same sentence nobody in their right mind is going to admit to nothing like this this use of an illustrator may be just for show and an attempt to make the detectives think he's being truthful cause they know they're going to jail nobody in the right mind is going to people do all the time to to a murder yes this is a telling statement he didn't say that an innocent person would never admit to it so this is a good indicator of brian's state of mind it also indicates his major reason for not making any admissions is to avoid facing additional jail time they know that they have all of this overwhelming guilt of what happened look at this girl man look at look look at her family look at this that's her right i really like that that's her the whole ohio state community the detective attempts to appeal to brian's sense of guilt and remorse to try and gain a confession however this technique only works if the suspect isn't a psychopath or sociopath which would make them unable to feel these emotions well where we're coming from is you're you are the last person with her in the comments you can hold them can i talk you're the last person with her bite yeah you were with her last person we know that was with her by your own mouth you get her naked which still doesn't make quite much sense to me because you left her for dead at that point anyways it's it's freezing cold outside dumpsters hold on it's freezing snow outside you put this young lady out of the car because you don't want to go nowhere but why take her clothes makes zero sense to me his partner tries a different approach appealing to logic his tone is becoming more aggressive as his patient seems to be wearing thin with brian's obvious lies and denials if it's cold out there and i mean where where are you honestly gonna go i mean i understand there's houses farms so you don't want her to go anywhere you want her just to stay there and sit i told her to stay there for 30 minutes right 30 minutes there's a lot of time when some zero degree temperature is [ __ ] ass naked why would a girl just take her clothes off i just oh i told her to though you know right how'd you tell her i just i said tell me the way you told her i just said i said uh i just i said um you want to say you want to live i don't don't do nothing to nobody if you do what i say then everything will be fine um stay here for 30 minutes and you'll be free to go wherever you want to go you're good to go yeah not that she gets out [ __ ] [ __ ] told you you flip around the car yeah you roll down the window and he said walk down there and until i tell you something and she was walking she kept looking back i said stop right the detectives are trying to indicate to brian that it's difficult to believe that reagan would do all the things he asked of her without the use of a firearm be in the eyes of the court and let me finish when we're going here in the eyes of the court you i and he both know an accidental is way different than somebody than lying and going all the way through hold on because you know what that looks like that looks like you don't you sure that that means there's no remorse you don't give a you're covering it up because you want to lie about it or there's an accidental where goddamn gun went off i didn't mean to it went off this is another example of the read method offering two alternatives one of which is significantly less severe by suggesting that it could have been an accidental discharge he's trying to encourage brian to latch on to that theory if he does they have culpability and can work with that accidents or accidents when a jury looks at someone and goes that dude was straight up it was a accident i want to help this man or they can look at you and go this dude dropped her off i mean it's not me helping you it's you helping you because i'm telling you that honesty is what helps you the detective appeals to brian's self-serving nature to try to get him to confess you're trying to i don't i can't say cohorts because i signed the paper but tail uh pretty much get me to admit to something that i did not do i gave you everything i gave you everything i had you didn't give us everything i did not kill nobody yes i did i gave you everything i didn't kill nobody man i did not kill anybody man he did i did man i didn't [Music] all right man so it's going to be left up to interpretation the detective begins packing up his investigation materials to create a sense of urgency all the while he continues to imply that no one will believe his story to try to get brian to open up about what really happened you realize that it's going to be left up to anyone with a sensible mind putting two plus two together and saying oh holy [ __ ] who else could have killed her no one can i say you have to look that's all i like dude it's gonna look like this leaving him alone with a single detective is another tactic to try to get a confession a one-on-one situation is a lot less threatening so he may be more comfortable about revealing the truth what about you said you tried to burn it how did you try to burn it [Music] all right you pour gas all over the damn thing can spilled out in the uh in the back of the trunk oh okay so why is it spouting up up on the yard oh did you throw that comment tired how did you try to light it though i mean where did you try to light it i mean you like the you like the trunk the back seat passenger seat your rc where'd you light it or drivers how come he didn't keep going you couldn't get a car to light on fire without a gallon again or a spill ball in the back seat why did you light the back seat i didn't think of that what it looks like right now is even if you didn't shoot her you still left a young 20 year old lady naked in a field in the freezing cold in the snow you left her for dead she won't gonna live either way is that is that fair yes i should [Music] [Music] it closed you know the palms of brian's hands are up as he's talking which may be an attempt for him to look trustworthy this behavior is almost pleading he's asking for the detectives to believe him that he knows he shouldn't have left her naked why'd you lie to me about the clothes earlier you lied you said you didn't get her naked you fought me for a couple minutes on that one oh and then the next thing you know is you slipped up now that the lead detective has returned they confront brian about his previous lie investigators have to carefully choose the timing to handle inconsistencies to ensure that suspects don't get defensive and shut down you get out there and you sit there and say no no no but that's not the case you get out there something happens right you shoot her but i said listen you shoot her but she doesn't die from the gunshot she dies from the cold air it's freezing cold temperatures right people like people shot and doesn't die it happens all the time man you would be there there was a guy the other day got shot 15 times and lived it happens all the time yeah so just listen let's just let's just look at that all right i know that you shot her but maybe the cold air killed her maybe the freezing temperatures did this new story is yet another attempt for detectives to get brian to admit to a smaller wrongdoing so they can gain some ground to see greater results that's mother nature man that's that's out of your control something happened [Music] she had shot cold temperatures killed her that's that's that's a possible thing that could happen the detective becomes more emphatic pressing brian over and over trying to get that confession however brian maintains his calm demeanor the only thing you'll have it did you just beat me up and trying to force me do you really think we're gonna do that man i'm just trying to get you to explain i'll get you to understand that i did not and i'm trying to get you to understand that that doesn't make sense so i want to go back to one other thing what makes no sense to me is she's driving a car to chase you're not you're not that intimidating i don't mean to say that to be rude but this girl had plenty of chances to get away from you how did you keep her there how i i said all i wanted was some money and everything would be right right but eventually after she had a chance to run and turn to you right after an hour after two hours of being with her she's worried and she's scared she's got to be scared that this ain't gonna work out for her and i don't know why she didn't run up right next to us where the only reason somebody would not most likely do something is that they had a gun to them the detectives hope they can finally wear them down by providing logical explanations to counter brian's arguments again and again unless with some there's an alien that came out of the sky and shot her in the head but we know that's not the case we know there's no other cars that came in there i know that none of this is going to look good when i go to court i know that for a fact you're right so what is the what is the point in me holding about straight on this guy i'm a straightforward guy i told you everything that i know catch controllers all the time from the beginning how'd you get your car did you not just actually open the door or show the door no no way no way man this does not work like that you have the camera restrike you have pictures of the camera i don't have the audio though so you see me go up to her then right you asked her to open up one door for her door i said open the back door please and she just got in the back for yes yes no way dude nobody does that it's a young college girl brian's edition of the word please when abducting reagan seems particularly ridiculous he's probably trying to paint himself in a positive light to the detectives regardless i'm going to jail just just from my history just for my history alone since i was without this murder because i know that's going to be on the indictment that's what you're questioning me about without that i'm still looking at about 15 20 years coming just for true just between just not just just just for robbery and we can't have it alone right what happened what happened to brian's life the mistakes that you just said that you've done right what what happened in your life to make you choose those as brian muses about his future the detective sees an opportunity to get him to analyze his actions in doing so maybe he can learn something useful the detective may also be trying to give brian an out or an excuse for his actions if brian reports that he had a history of trauma the detectives may encourage him to blame his difficult past as a reason for why he did what he did to reagan it's usually easier for someone to admit to doing something horrible if they can find someone or something else to blame it's important to note that there is some truth behind this people who commit terrible crimes often do have a history of abuse and that trauma they experience likely did have an effect on the person they became however most people who experience trauma as a child do not go on to commit murder so childhood abuse and neglect alone can't fully explain why some people choose to kill do you abuse this year i really don't want to get into that but drug addiction as far as is a drug addiction that's what we eat everyone no crack cocaine meth anything the united states might drink maybe once a month so no drugs you're not addicted to alcohol so why do you make these choices to do what you do no money [Music] you said you're worth it don't be regular you get the money that you make spend that much on weed how much do you spend all me how much do you make money roughly 256 dollars all right work your ass off the show of sympathy from the detectives is designed to help them build rapport to try to change the paradigm and get brian to see them as allies rather than the enemy despite brian's claims of not having money evidence seems to indicate otherwise jennifer nicholl the mother of one of brian's children and her friend brittany ra came to the police station to provide evidence as they encountered brian during this time period and shortly after the murder he had like 700 the day two days before that he was working he was working and i i came over to jennifer's one morning and he had money and he was like let's go get stuff for the kids i want to go get the girls some outfits so i took him to walmart and he bought the girls some outfits and stuff you know and i'm like brian i'm so proud of you like you are totally changing your life around i couldn't be more proud of you good job bieber big bro that's what i would always say doing you know this is what's gonna happen right because we're grocery and we continue investigating the very end all right we're gonna find a gun we're gonna find some friends in here somebody will say hey i saw him with the gun because you know as well as i do as soon as one of your friends gets picked up on some little misdemeanor marijuana charge right they're going to tell the truth i'm just telling people somebody is going to tell her that they saw brian with a gun this is another example of the interrogators planting seeds of doubt in brian's head leonte brown talia nathan and tawanna richards all indicated that he had a gun that night although they never saw it his friend callan hartley stated that brian had won all the time and that he had seen it however the most incriminating statement comes from his own girlfriend hattie during her interview her story picks up just after brian has given her the purse [Music] and his friend okay what kind of gun they show you a little i don't know it's a handgun okay do you know about this link do you know what a revolver is but not like this that's a nine well i mean this is like a semi-automatic gun revolver has a big round chamber it's silver right it's over but it rotates like this yeah is that what he had okay so he had a revolt why did he show that you any idea oh what do you say he said he needed protection i said protection from who he said well you know nowadays how did y'all how did y'all even know to look for me we never booked free okay you want to know how dna from the car i'm being honest with you and that's what you were just telling me about the do you would really want to and man in this too but you would what else yeah y'all wouldn't have that yeah you know well we know we had this before we had this before we had a singer that's what i'm saying before that's what i'm before that how did you know to look for me for a robbery we had the photographs of that speedway right and then the dna that's built before you buying the gasoline in the gas can oh so y'all found the car i found the guys came in the car [Music] brian seems particularly interested in the process the detectives used to find him however detectives gained a lot of evidence through their interviews with people close to brian several of these people saw brian driving the silver acura after reagan's disappearance the day after the murder tawana richards arrived home from work at 6 15 pm she noticed that the silver acura was out front once inside she asked brian if he could drive leonte to don's quick stop so he could get her some cash from the atm as they climbed inside the vehicle brian told him that the acura was his from the front passenger seat leonte glanced in the back seat and noticed that there was dark colored clothing on the back seat it was possible that this clothing belonged to reagan tokes and that brian later disposed of it leonte was not the only one who joined brian inside the vehicle that day he took it over to jennifer the mother of one of his children's house where she and her friend brittany rowe were present here's brittany's explanation of what happened came over the house and he was like i bought this car we were like what you got a car and he was like yeah i just bought it from a dude of mine i'm like brian that's really awesome now you just need to get an apartment and he was like come down look at it so we went downstairs and i seen the tampon in the back door and i told him i'm like that is so nasty and he was like oh my dude he must have banged a girl back there and he took the tampon and threw it on the ground and we got in there and he turned the car on and i was like dude it smells like gas in here really bad according to reagan's roommate stephanie regale reagan had been on her period that week hattie also saw brian in the silver acura okay what do you show up there and how do you get there um his friend told him he said that he came with his friend but he had dropped his friend off the possible existence of brian's friend during this time may prove important during his interrogation i said well where's your friend now and he said his friends at work and he had a car he parked it in my auntie's driveway so you had to see it right about what color it was 12 o'clock in the morning like silver where are you going to go to mcdonald's mcdonald's um cleveland this would explain the mcdonald's receipt and napkins detectives found inside reagan's vehicle everyone who entered the vehicle with brian pointed out that it smelled strongly of gas evidence of his attempt to burn the vehicle the detective wants to know if this was the case when hattie was in the car with him as well he said i got the gasoline in the back just in case i run out of gas i said we'll go to a damn gas station you know you know you say i don't want to stop so why wouldn't you want to stop and i said you know what just forget about it and i gave him a kiss and i left further questioning revealed that she and brian had both smoked in the vehicle although she threw her cigarette butt out the window brian's discarded cigarette butt was what allowed the detectives to discover his dna inside the car as a last-ditch effort to learn more the detective becomes confrontational with her nothing else you want to say now they got your dna you could be held up on a felony for tampering evidence you're trying to get your son right what else do you know what you're trying to do detectives [Music] you did it on purpose it's 25 to life to death penalty whatever you want to go manslaughter is an accident you're talking a couple years you'll get more out of robbery in the kidnapping than you would for a manslaughter so right well no probably runs concurrent to be honest with you but we don't know we're not the judge we're not the sentencing person it does but there's you see the difference in the charges i've been i've been incarcerated for in this appeal for a very long time it's rare it's just rare that somebody gets manslaughter as brian has seemed concerned about his potential sentence the detective tries to get him to believe admitting to an accidental killing will not cost him any additional time to try to get him to budge once more brian uses his extensive incarceration experience to counter his argument you go to the judge the judge now this is hypothetically speaking i go in there they say they charge me a murder [Music] right you know what i mean i i i i think about the future i'm saying okay because that that's what it's going to try to play out to her she was naked so and robert ain't kidnapped him so that's four charges just there alone they're going to build that up so and we're gonna charge with murder i just said that that's the person okay i'm sorry i just want you to be clear if you're gonna be charged go in front of a judge all of these charts together y'all telling me only can give me a few years i'm not telling ebc i mean i know that i'm not making this hold up hold on i was making an explanation to you what what difference is between murder and manslaughter brian's hypothetical situation isn't something an innocent person would even be considering in his circumstances because they know they actually didn't commit the crime despite his incredible knowledge of the possible charges and sentences he faces he doesn't seem to realize that he's incriminating himself there's no doubt in our minds that you shot her but we need to know why he shot him i didn't shoot nobody you did right you did you did brian puts his head in his hands here indicating that he may be losing his resolve when detectives see body language indicators such as this the procedure is to apply more pressure to try to get them to crack and you know it but we need to know why that's all i care about so i can call the family up and say all right this is this is what happened and this is why it happened do you want me to say yes i want you to tell me truth now i'm telling you you want me to say yes i'll say it's just to get this all out the way he knows that detectives can't accept a confession of that nature so this is likely a ploy to get them to end the interrogation [Music] so maybe i should go after the beer down the woods from why it happened it's not making any sense what no i was about to i was just you know i give you everything that i know and [Music] man all i wanted is money i've never shot the body in my whole entire life man never i've never had a gun except for whatever like there's no one else that could have [Music] there's someone telling me after i leave there's no one else that could have you ever been outside in the freezing cold i used to live i was struggling okay are you gonna stand out when i come out this trip i didn't have nowhere to go are you gonna be out there freezing cold are you gonna stand out in the freezing cold subzero temperatures in the freezing cold naked no [Music] after over two hours in the interrogation brian seems to be wearing down and becomes emotional whether this is an indicator that he's close to confessing or if he's just putting on theatrics to appear more convincing is unclear tell me why tell you why why you shot her i didn't shoot nobody right you shot her you know that you did and i don't know why you're not telling us [Music] [Music] detectives are now aware that brian is not going to confess frustrated they end the interview until they can decide what to do next brian held his composure with the detectives for the better part of two hours here he looks distressed and exhausted [Music] after a 10-minute hiatus they call for brian again this time with a new approach this case may sound straightforward so far but just wait brian will soon reveal one of the most bizarre stories we've ever heard in an interrogation in order to try and explain what happened to reagan [Music] what about me i wanted to go over one thing because there's one that i don't that i think might be a possibility when you picked her up on third when you were smoking weed with your buddy up on third in the alley where'd you do where did your dudes go [Music] because at some point we'll see if there was a second person in the car and if he's the one that pulled the trigger then then we needed to know that you know that's the case i was still being accomplished the detective seems to be providing a way out by offering someone else to blame once more brian gives a suspicious answer that shows that his concern is still only for himself you sure nobody else even if you take away the accomplishment if there was something else in the car that he pulled the gun and you said no then whatever you know what i mean brian sits in silence for a long time contemplating this scenario and its implications for him the detective notices this you didn't want to hurt nobody you're not you're not violent like that but i think one way you could control her was with a second guy and you don't want to give me the name of the guy because you don't want me to snitch if he can get brian to latch onto this story and admit that he was there when reagan was killed it will prove he was lying the whole time and opened the door to presenting him as the only shooter later on i need to know if there was a second dude in the car he's the one he's the dumbass that pulled the trigger he's the one that did all the damage the silence stretches on that [ __ ] if he was in the car he caused the a death not you yeah you want his money you worked out there to get money because there was a second dude in the car now it's a time talent so i can start doing that right around it does make a huge difference it's not gonna make a difference because in a long time i'm still going to prison there i'm still going to prison man why you don't lie to me now cause it's not gonna make it you haven't lied at all all night and now you're gonna lie to me it does make a difference i want to know it's not going to make a difference the detective switches his relatively calm demeanor to suddenly yelling and cussing at brian though yelling and cussing at a suspect is generally not a great tactic and remaining calm and respectful but slowly getting more confrontational is a better route he may be employing this strategically to keep brian unsure and uneasy this is typically called the fear up tactic brian appears to be having an emotional meltdown now which makes sense after nearly three hours of interrogation he still shows no remorse for the victim or the crime itself on the other hand he may still be putting on an act to make the story he plans to tell more convincing okay we can we can look out for them kids we can look out for you for your girl no man i already got people up here at your girl's house your baby's mommy's house are you going well don't watch me please right now don't do that please don't let they're out there keeping an eye on it right now because there's a second [ __ ] in that car and you need to tell me who he is the detective raises his voice likely to put additional pressure on brian however his anger appears to be on brian's behalf toward this supposed unknown person in the car which is intended to encourage him to trust and confide in him and make it appear that he believes brian's story because she doesn't want to you don't have that because you ain't going to get it because you're going to tell me how to shout this girl i'm losing everything anyways man help yourself out baby stand up man tell me who the other foot for that girl's family god damn it you talk about your family that poor girl's got a family too as brian continues to bemoan his own situation the detective tries to get him to remember that he's not the victim here this [ __ ] shot her who was it i'm not doing nothing i want to know okay thank you do you and your family all right let's man i don't have that i got a wife all i wanted to do is take care of my kids and make sure that they was cool to provide for them that's why i was working i ain't never held a job as well now i'm lost on my goddamn job so did he did he tell you to go get a girl did he whose idea was to go get the girl brian's cough could be an adapter sign of stress as he tries to release some nervous energy about his new story wasn't to specifically get a specific order to get money yeah how much money did he expect he told me he needed about two thousand dollars two thousand dollars tonight going to be my family okay like a week and a half ago because the first time and then it's like it was his mandatory thing see i was i stopped going to work i was scared i started i wasn't even there was times i wouldn't come home until 11 12 1 o'clock in the morning right so and i can't let me mom know she's gonna move and leave you right now she's gonna break out right so i'm trying to i'm trying to make sure that everything is cool everything you'd like me to do bro he did i did both [Music] let me lock his ass up i don't know his name i don't even know how he knows my main mom brian is quick to play the victim and the detective plays along to keep him talking none of the story makes sense and is unrelated to the crime he committed hattie did mention that brian had dropped off a friend before coming to see her at 2 a.m but he may have been lying to her you were driving in the backseat behind her he was behind her effort okay and then behind me he had us go pick him up from up east did he follow your phone he was there gonna be a phone call from him no phone he took the game a time when i showed back up in an hour it was over with where'd you have to go i had to go out east again why would your 22nd i had to go get him aware that the bank security footage would reveal there was no second man brian makes sure that in his story he picks the man up afterward on the way to the park when the detective questions him about the phone call brian is quick to point out there wasn't one as it would be traceable the detective knows this story is a complete fabrication but he wants to get to the events surrounding reagan's murder so he can prove that brian was actually there and had knowledge that no one but the murderer would possess [Music] just you and her yeah at this point i'm scared of that she's she's wondering why i'm doing it for a good portion of the interrogation brian has sat very still with his arms wrapped around his chest however now his use of hand gestures has increased as he tells this new story any deviation and behavior from how the suspect was acting in the beginning of the interview is important to pay attention to and could indicate that they are lying but she's wondering like she's like just can i just go like that's the baby i wish i could but i can't she did why i didn't tell her but i just i wanted to i wanted to just run the cop for real this is particularly unbelievable especially because of brian's previous relationship with the police and his disdain for them so he's like i want you to meet me at this park if you're not here all i have to do is said all right we'll be back go to and this is where i think that well i really when she picked him up the first time she looked at me like i was crazy like okay he told me to stop here and why is he getting in the car type look so but when he dropped him off where or he dropped him off at the park apart by himself by himself it's odd that they would drop off the man before going to the gas station and brian doesn't give a proper explanation more than likely he's aware that the stranger wouldn't show up on the footage of the gas station and just wants a way to explain that we go to the gas station i'm promising this way but everything's gonna be all right right throughout this new version of events brian presents himself and his behavior in a more positive light and much more meek and scared which is at odds with how he handled himself with detectives for the first two hours get out of the park what happened we got there did you you know [Music] [ __ ] so she would tell the car i actually i get out of the car first and she gets out of the car and she takes her clothes off he says you driver's seat i said okay get out go to jackson get behind her she better handle it he's just making him the first time [Music] it's much easier for brian to explain the events of the murder as a witness than if he had to admit that he was the one pulling the trigger [Music] if i say anything to anybody family is going to be hurt bro so this is that's why i gave you everything that i i mean i knew this part of my health right right this is why i didn't want to tell you in the first place right about this because it's not going to stop now because i'm about to be on the news brian is looking directly at the detectives now likely trying to gauge their reaction and see if they're buying his story or if he needs to add additional details to make it more believable he's gonna know that i'll talk to you all he can't touch me right now while brian attempts to cover the whole story with his fabrication there are many inconsistencies a few of which include reagan's assault in the car and how he ended up with the money that he later gave to hattie after all the whole point of the excursion was supposedly to get the other man the money you know but he can go get my family what kind of gun it is it was silver that's all i know it was still that's all i know was the square rounds oh my god describe it to me it wasn't well i know it was a revolver okay so he he goes up she turned her back ahead yeah as she's walking there was two one guy he gave me one yeah that had two wizards in it right and his was fully loaded and he had actually was three guns he had another one in his pocket because he had one at her and one at me as he attempts to add details to make the story more believable he's actually making it more far-fetched this is common when people are lying his introduction of a second gun and even a third is a bit outlandish and suggesting that the mystery man held him at gunpoint as well seems to be an attempt for brian to imply that he too was kidnapped and a victim right along with reagan all he wanted me to do is do everything but i don't understand why he killed her you know she did everything he asked bro right and he shot her in the back of the head bro i literally see sitting in the pressure she's looking at her hair it was like some slow motion it is eerie to watch his emotion real or fake as he responds with disgust describing actions that he himself performed oh no and then he walks up and gets in the passenger seat you know after is she walking at this point okay or she kneeled down oh what's going on i'm gonna tell you now i'm gonna combine the story i told you earlier in this story brian's location during this story is inconsistent a minute ago he said he was told to sit in the driver's seat [Music] then he was watching from the passenger seat i literally see sitting in the presence she's looking at her hair yet when the murderer returns to the car he sits in the passenger seat which is where brian stated that he was watching from and then he walks up and gets in the passenger seat brian backs up retelling the story for the detective this time however he explains that the man took back the gun he gave to him and used it to kill reagan probably is a preemptive measure to explain away him having handled the gun [Music] [Music] so you start blocking your car down get down it pretty much wipes everything down including this part in his story is designed to explain why the other man's dna or prints weren't found in the car however cleaning with a towel is insufficient to remove evidence of a person's dna i'm gonna make you burn this car i said i'm not burning [Music] says [Music] so [Music] i can't think of a life for the life of me as these apartments was man what he told me to drive around for what's he going by what did he go by tj tj is he black guy tall skinny fat brown being he ain't fat he's like if he's about five eleven six foot roughly like 2 10 to 20 at the most despite denying he knew who the man was earlier brian answers rather promptly here and even provides a description perhaps he now has someone in mind that he doesn't like or that he knows as a plausible criminal to use as a scapegoat even though they suspect that the man is fake investigators still must follow through with their investigation they asked those they interviewed about t.j do you know anybody named tj i know they're black or white black [Music] [Music] i don't know hopefully maybe has a cross tattoo right here okay one time he said that he had a second person in his head in his head in his head he told you that he told us that did he say what that person's name was or anything did not say a name i think it's a tj if there is a second person because still to this day like that that day he still won't tell us no detail on tj tj does he so how do you know about tj when all of it happened um detective stellar when we first talked to him and told him what we knew or that we you know sat in the car um detective stellar asked us if we knew a tj and we said no he just said he bought it off of a friend and then our first visit with brian is when he told us that tj is the one he bought the vehicle off of that's what he told you that he bought the vehicle off the teaching but you know that and you don't know you don't know where tj is he dropped him off on 161 yeah did you say how he knew tj a friend just a friend a friend from work that was it that was it nothing more nothing more nothing less he couldn't even give a description of what tj looked like other than he was a black male he didn't talk about tattoos going to school with tj anything like that he didn't tell me nothing about going to school with make sure tj kids sorry i go out there i'm i'm while i'm after i go buy all kinds of stuff on my level i love my valentine's day stuff but my uh my mom bought her some valentine's day this statement is corroborated by britney ruh and jennifer nickel when they told the story of brian buying valentine's day presents for his children yet the question remains if he had his own money what was the point of the robbery despite the inconsistencies the detective lets him go on anyway since he essentially has his confession now and knows this story is false all he needs to do now is show the evidence that brian acted alone but that's when [Music] when i left i tried to burn the car and it wouldn't burn so you got what you wanted on me no matter what i'm still going to prison doesn't make a difference so his name's tj izzy ball you got the tattoo right here but what two teardrops like solid or you saw that color the building yeah it filled in black both of them over my field and then a little offset okay he has a cross in the middle of his forehead middle for him how big is his tattoo on his forehead a it's across just like i can't really probably like make that big don't go too much above his eyebrows i'm going to prison we're going to go [Music] wanted to know whose car i was driving i had to tell her it was mom said baby mom saw you in the car yes i told i told my baby mom that it was my car she actually got out of here [Music] i don't want to put no words on her chest because she's already she wanted to get back with me changes the conversation away from tj back to himself he may have wanted to feel out if he could get any information from the detective about whether his confession was going to affect his potential prison time he may have also wanted to give himself a chance to take a mental break after creating and describing such an elaborate story let's give this some paperwork done take five i gotta go talk to my boss man and then we'll i'll come back [Music] in march of 2018 brian goldsby was convicted of the kidnapping assault and murder of reagan tokes his defense argued that childhood trauma played a major factor in his behavior and he apologized for his actions requesting mercy from the jurors regardless he was found guilty on all counts he eventually told investigators that reagan's last words were i want to live a request that brian denied during his apology to the court brian admitted that there was no tj and that he lied about him to try to wriggle out of the crime that he himself committed however when determining whether brian should receive the death penalty jurors were split so they recommended life without parole to the judge he agreed with the sentence suggesting that brian's reprieve from the death penalty was because of his attorney's hard work and diligence he's currently serving his sentence in the ohio state penitentiary

Channel: EXPLORE WITH US

Views: 5,104,216

Keywords: documentary, true crime documentary, psychology, law

Id: 0Vd4smyVWyo

Length: 108min 8sec (6488 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 23 2022