What's The Deal with "Court Packing" The Supreme Court?

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Just to add to what he is saying about term limits -

TLDR; 1700-1800s: millions of dead babies every year 2020: very many less dead babies per capita so a much higher Life Expectancy A Life Expectancy since birth of 34 belies the fact that a large proportion of people during the 1700’s, especially the wealthy, could live well into their 80s (the average age of the first 5 Presidents).

I think they had in mind ages that are not too far from what we see now but couldn’t have guessed the ability of technology to keep some of these brain dead people alive and in office of all 3 branches of government.(I’m thinking of one in particular, but I won’t say who)

The Eagle’s point still stands obviously, I just wanted to throw in some potential perspectives for people like me that throughout most of their lives heard the statistic that people only lived into their late 30’s but some how everyone in the textbooks seemed to live twice as long.

END of TLDR

….Ok, I just have to make sure you understand I was talking about Donald Trump. Our current President. WTH?!? He called COVID a HOAX and then caught the HOAX and was given the best treatment in the world to save his life and then went on to become an actual vector for the virus! A Super Spreader. He was the #1 cause of disinformation that will cause untold amounts of death with the very people who trusted him with their lives! He’s still alive when the odds say he shouldn’t be because of technology. and money.

Dear Mr. Legal Eagle, I hope this makes sense

I think that using a "Life Expectancy from Birth" can be a bit misleading when we try to infer what the founding fathers had in mind when it comes to “life" time appointments and the unintended consequences of increased life expectancy.

If you look at the Median or Mode Ages at Death during the 1700s, the ages are much higher and more in line with our current Life Expectancies than the difference between the given Life Expectancy ages of 34 to 78 would lead us to believe.

this link gives some more information on Life Expectancy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000019/

If you average the first 5 presidents age of deaths out, they come in at almost ~80 years old! I think that for the most part they knew that many people would live well into their 70s but just couldn’t account for technological advances that would allow people to keep their bodies alive long past when their brains are set to expire.

It may also be in large part due to technology’s ability to feel like there is a change in politics by zeitgeist every few months as opposed to every decade or so before modern media.

Combine aging brains with lower and lower neural plasticities and a tech oriented society that thrives on change and it’s starting to look like you have a recipe for disaster.

Seems like science could be both man’s biggest achievment as well as our own undoing.

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/chuckers 📅︎︎ Dec 25 2020 🗫︎ replies
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- This episode of "LegalEagle" was made possible by Skillshare. With the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, President Trump was able to nominate and appoint his third Supreme Court justice, Amy Coney Barrett. This rankled many Democrats because the process took place right before the 2020 election and under COVID circumstances. And the process included a COVID superspreader event at the White House. But they accused President Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of rank hypocrisy, given that the Republican Senate refused to hold a hearing on President Obama's pick for Supreme Court, Merrick Garland, who was nominated 237 days before the 2016 election. - I think it's safe to say there will not be hearings or votes. I think it is also safe to say the next president, whoever that may be, is gonna be the person who chooses the next Supreme Court justice. - This appointment of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court represents a large shift in ideology on the Court and some Democrats are calling for retribution. And this has caused some to suggest that if President Biden is able to take control of the Senate, he should engage in what's called court packing. If the Democrats are able to take Georgia, they could conceivably have the votes to do it. And the thing is, there's nothing special about the number of justices on the Supreme Court. We didn't arrive at that number by divine intervention and it's not in the Constitution. So that raises the question, would it in fact be legal to just simply expand the Supreme Court if the Democrats take the Senate? Can the party simply add justices to the Supreme Court and then fill those vacancies? What happened the last time a president tried to pack the Court? And are there any other limits that can be imposed on the members of the Supreme Court? (regal orchestral music) Hey Legal Eagles, it's time to think like a lawyer because the future of the Supreme Court is actually at stake. You might recall that two years ago, Marco Rubio introduced a Constitutional amendment limiting the Supreme Court to nine justices forever. He said, "There's nothing magical about the number nine. "It's not inherently right "just because the number of seats on the Supreme Court "remains unchanged since 1869, "but there is something inherently good and important "about preventing the further destabilization "of essential institutions." So is Senator Rubio correct that in order to limits on the Supreme Court we'd actually need a Constitutional amendment? Well, it depends on what kind of limits you're talking about. And to understand the Supreme Court, we have to understand what's called the Judiciary Act and of course the US Constitution. The Constitution mandates that there be a chief justice. Article I, Section III, Clause 6 refers to a chief justice, quote, "Who shall preside over the impeachment trial "of the President of the United States." But beyond that, the Constitution is silent as to how many justices actually have to be on the Court. In theory, the Constitution allows for just two justices, or 11, 23, or 41. It doesn't say that there is an optimal number and that's for Congress to decide. Article III, Section 1 of the Constitution gives Congress broad discretion to establish the court system. Quote, "The judicial Power of the United States "shall be vested in one Supreme Court, "and in such inferior Courts as the Congress "may from time to time ordain and establish." Now Article III does not provide how many justices will still on this Supreme Court. That was to be hashed out politically by the earliest members of Congress and the president. We typically call these folks the Founding Fathers to give them extra gravitas, but at the end of the day, they were just the earliest politicians in this country. They made some brilliant decisions and some boneheaded ones, and that's what happens when you're inventing a new country. And the Judiciary Act of 1789 established the first Supreme Court with six justices. The country was so small that the Supreme Court justices, quote, "Rode the circuit," hearing cases in the regional circuit courts as well as the cases before the Supreme Court. But in 1801, President John Adams and a lame duck Federalist Congress passed the Judiciary Act of 1801 which actually reduced the number of justices on the Court to five. The goal was to stop incoming president Thomas Jefferson's Court appointments. Jefferson and his Democratic Republicans quickly repealed the act, putting the Court back to six justices. But President Jefferson wasn't convinced that six was the right number of justices for the Supreme Court either and in 1807, Jefferson and Congress agreed to expand the Court, adding a seventh justice when Congress added a seventh federal circuit. The ideal being that as the country gets bigger, you need more federal circuits and thus more judges are needed for the Supreme Court as well. And the next amendment to the Judiciary Act in 1837 followed this same principle. President Andrew Jackson added two additional justices after Congress expanded the number of federal circuit courts again. And the next big amendment to the Judiciary Act was during the Civil War when Congress created the 10th circuit in 1863. At this point, the Supreme Court had 10 justices, but in 1866, after the war, Congress passed legislation to gradually reduce the Court to seven justices. This happened for two reasons. First, Republicans were redrawing the geographical lines for the judicial circuits, going back down to nine circuits. So why not nine justices then? Well, because of the second point. They wanted to limit the influence of the former Confederate states. There'd been a tradition of appointing a judge from each circuit, so each circuit had a justice who could also hear circuit cases. But this meant that between 1837 and 1862 five of the nine circuits comprised exclusively Slave states. So former Confederates still had a disproportionate impact on who was on the Supreme Court watching out for their interest. But the 1866 acts left only two circuits that comprised of only former Slave states and only one that comprised only former Confederate states. But as you learn from history, Democrats fought Reconstruction tooth and nail and three years later a new Judiciary Act put the number back to nine justices. The Judiciary Act of 1869 said, "Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives "of the United States in Congress assembled, "that the Supreme Court of the United States "shall here and after consist "of the Chief Justice of the United States "and eight associate justices, "any six of whom shall constitute a quorum; "and for the purposes of this act "there shall be appointed "an additional associate justice of said court." So that more or less brings us up to date with the Judiciary in 2020. The number of Supreme Court justices has remained at nine since 1869. And there are currently 12 regional federal circuits organized from the 94 US judicial districts and there's a 13th circuit that's called the Federal Circuit which has nationwide jurisdiction over certain appeals based on subject matter. And, obviously, the US has done away with the custom that there should be one justice for each of the judicial circuits, otherwise we would have four additional justices. But let's pause here and think back to Senator Rubio's proposal that there should be nine justices on the Supreme Court forever. Why would that be? Well, for comparison purposes, consider other common law countries. The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom has 12 members. Australia's highest court has seven. Canada's has nine. Does this really tell us anything about the fairness of the institutions? We could, of course, make this a numbers game, but that's not really what this all about. Supreme Court battles are all about ideology. Whose views are represented and what are the judicial philosophies of the different justices, and how does a judge tend to rule about a particular issue? As much as both sides try to stand on principle, the Court battles are mainly about power and this is just as true now as it historically has been over time. And for comparison's sake, the population of the US back in 1869 was almost 39 million people. The population in the US in 2010 was over 300 million people. You could argue that a nation of 300 million people needs a bigger Supreme Court to adequately represent everyone's interests. And many countries in Europe ensure that the courts have justices representing all sides of the political spectrum. So given this logic, the rising population and the fact that there is no requirement that the number of justices on the Supreme Court stay at nine, and of course the tit-for-tat nature of adding more justices in retribution for what happened to Merrick Garland, some people have argued that the next Democratic president should simply add justices to the Supreme Court, something that's called court packing. Now many of you might be familiar with the term court packing from your school days. Because President Biden won't be the first to wrestle with the idea of court packing. And what most people remember is that FDR tried to add six justices to the Supreme Court, but that's not quite the whole story. In the midst of the Great Depression, Roosevelt had proposed a number of laws and regulations to stop the economic meltdown and to provide welfare to Americans. Generally these are referred to as FDR's New Deal. But the Supreme Court overturned a number of FDR's New Deal programs on the basis that they were unconstitutional, saying generally that Congress simply didn't have the power to pass these kinds of economic regulations because they didn't have the power under the Constitution's Commerce clause. And FDR particularly disagreed with the decision the Supreme Court made in 1935 in Schechter Poultry Corp. versus United States which struck down a part of the National Industrial Recovery Act. And given that the Supreme Court had said these laws were unconstitutional, there was nothing that Congress or the president could do. They lacked the power. It wasn't available under the Constitution. So in retaliation, Roosevelt suggested expanding the membership of the Supreme Court. The law would've added one justice to the Supreme Court for every justice over the age of 70, with a maximum of six additional justices. The idea being that he would pack the Court with justices who agreed with his ideology and his interpretation of the Constitution that would allow Congress and the president to pass the New Deal legislation. But after public outcry, the law to expand the Supreme Court did not in fact pass. But interestingly, the Supreme Court did take a more favorable view of New Deal legislation in allowing much of it to stand. And since that time, it obviated the request for more people to join the Supreme Court and FDR's attempt to pack the courts has been portrayed as a power grab ever since. But there's an additional dimension to FDR's plan that often doesn't get recognition. It actually doesn't add, necessarily, six justices. It would've simply added one justice for every sitting justice over the age of 70 up to a maximum of six, ensuring that you would never fall below nine, even if the older judges died or retired. In part, FDR's plan was addressing the lifetime tenue of Supreme Court judgeships. Life terms for Supreme Court justices has always been controversial. But in 1789, at the time of the first Constitutional Convention, life expectancy was 34 years old. But 2011, life expectancy was 78 years old. Is this a problem for the Supreme Court? Well, that depends on who you ask. At times, Congress passed legislation to nudge judges towards retirement. Several Republican Congresses in the 1860s provided full salaries and benefits to all federal judges who retired. This worked and Republicans were able to fill several formerly Democratic seats on the Judiciary. In 1932, Herbert Hoover enacted austerity measures during the Depression. One of them was cutting Supreme Court justices retirement salaries in half. According to research by Judge Glock, Herbert Hoover's attorney general warned that the law meant justices will, quote, "Hang on like grim death "until the Angel Gabriel blows the horn." He was, of course, correct. Once the bill passed, nobody wanted to retire. FDR recognized this and attempted to restore their full retirement salaries, but the bill failed. And that was actually part of FDR's court packing plan as well. The legislation would've restored the justices' full pensions. Judge Glock's research on this matter found records in FDR's library, in the papers of his attorney general, Homer Cummings, demonstrating that the Court expansion plan was modeled on what Republicans did in the 1960s. And in 1937, Congress did, in fact, restore the full pensions for retiring justices and one justice actually retired. Now, critics of court packing point out some extremely obvious flaws with the idea. The first of which is that court packing isn't really a permanent solution. Since this isn't codified in the Constitution itself, if the norm of a nine justice Supreme Court is violated, then effectively any time a political party takes control of the House, the Senate and the presidency, then they can change the number of justices on the Supreme Court. And the two parties can enter into a never-ending cycle of one-upsmanship where they simply expand the Court whenever it is convenient for them. And in fact, former Harvard professor and legal commentator Lawrence Tribe says, "Obviously partisan Court-expansion "to negate the votes of justices whose views a party detests "and whose legitimacy the party doubts "could trigger a tit-for-tat spiral "that would endanger the Supreme Court's vital role "in stabilizing the national political and legal system." So not only could the Supreme Court expand and expand any time that a political party finds it convenient to do so, but that very expansion might take away some of the legitimacy that people associate with the Supreme Court's rulings on different things and remove some of the independence that the Supreme Court is, at least theoretically, supposed to have. So apart from simply adding justices to the Supreme Court, what else could be done to reform it? Well, some people are arguing for ending lifetime appointments. This is Constitutionally suspect. The Constitution says that the judges of the Supreme Court will stay in times of good behavior, which generally has been interpreted as being a lifetime appointment, that the judge gets to decide when he or she retires and that there's nothing that Congress can do to force someone to early retirement or to set term limits for the justices. And there are many places in federal service where you want lifetime appointments to be free from any kind of political influence. But some scholars suggest that you can get around this by simply rotating the judges through, that someone can be appointed to a term in the Supreme Court and then relegated to one of the federal circuits after a certain number of years have been served. And there are pros and cons to this approach. Some argue that having a lifetime appointment means that justices will be completely free from political influence. Others say that it simply creates an incentive for politicians to appoint extremely young judges who agree with you ideologically, who will stay on the Court for years and years and years and then the other side simply won't have an opportunity to appoint somebody else. But as we saw since the FDR days, a lifetime appointment means that some of the justices will simply hold on forever, until they actually might pass away in office. This is one of those areas that regardless of what the Constitution says, there's not necessarily a right answer in terms of term limits for Supreme Court justices. In fact, Justice Ginsburg supported shorter terms for Supreme Court justices. The most popular suggestion is limiting justices to 18 year terms. This is a reform that seems to have had bipartisan support in the past, but there are some Constitutional problems with it. Neither Congress nor the president can fire judges or force them out of office without cause, however the Constitution provides that justices shall hold their offices during good behavior. Good behavior has been interpreted as conferring lifetime tenue on judges and imposing term limits would probably require a Constitutional amendment. Though some argue it's possible that you could shuffle a Supreme Court justice off of the Supreme Court into one of the federal circuits, thus keeping them employed in the federal system as a judge, just not on the Supreme Court for their life tenue. But this also wouldn't solve the politicization problem. Battles over nominees would probably still be fierce. Some argue for a bigger Court and a panel review system. Vanderbilt professors Tracey George and Chris Guthrie propose that Congress change the Court's institutional design. Their idea is to increase the size of the Supreme Court's membership and remake in the image of the US court of appeals. First, they suggest of increasing the size, so it's approximately the same size as the circuit courts, which have around 13 judges per circuit. Second, they propose that the Court should hear almost all the cases in panels rather than as a full Court, which could at least double and perhaps even triple the Supreme Court's decision making capacity, which means that the Court could decide even more cases. Panels would be randomly selected, so we would not know in advance precisely which judges would decide the case. And third, Guthrie and George say that the Court should retain the authority to grant and en banc review in the small fraction of cases that call for the Court to speak as a full body. And this is effectively how the other federal circuits operate all the time. Theoretically, the benefits of this proposal include greater consistency and clarity of in the law in addition to, arguably, less politicized nomination processes. And still others argue for Supreme Court reforms that acknowledge that it is, in fact, a political body. Some argue for what's called the Balance Bench approach, a plan created by law professors Daniel Epps and Ganesh Sitaraman. Their plan in a nutshell starts with 10 Supreme Court justices, five would be affiliated with the Democratic Party and five with the Republican Party. These 10 justices would then select five additional justices chosen from the current circuit, or possibly district court judges. These five circuit court judges would need to be selected unanimously by the 10 partisan judges and they'd need to be chosen two years in advance for one year terms. And if the justices fail to agree on a slate of additional colleagues, the Supreme Court would lack a quorum and they could not hear any cases for that year. The Balanced Bench plan rests on the idea that the partisan affiliated justices would have to pick justices would probably would never be appointed to the Supreme Court because they have views that aren't easily traceable to party affiliations. And Epps and Sitaraman believe that the justices would select five people who have a reputation for, quote, "Fairness, independence, and centrism." But of course, regardless whatever benefits this approach would have, it's clearly unconstitutional, so it would require a Constitutional amendment to actually implement. But why let a silly little thing like being unconstitutional prevent it from being adopted? But there's no dispute that, for better or worse, the system currently is based largely on luck. Some presidents might not get to appoint a single Supreme Court justice while others might appoint three or four. But whether there are nine justices on the Supreme Court or 900, if you ever want to get to the Supreme Court, you've got to learn to write really well. In fact, all lawyers have to write really well. And the best place to learn anything is on Skillshare. Which is why you would take Sabaa Tahir's Skillshare class, "Writing Authentic Fiction: "How to Build a Believable Character." Sabaa walks you through her personal process for crafting authentic and believable characters. It's packed with exercises, prompts and tried and true techniques. It's a class that will teach you how to create real and nuanced characters that feel like they could walk right off the page. Or you could take my friend Thomas Frank's class, "Real Productivity: How to Build Habits that Last," because lawyers have to be incredibly productive. Thomas focuses on strengthening your internal self-discipline, assisting that self-discipline with smart external systems, and improving those habits over time with regular reflection. Skillshare, as I'm sure you know, is one of the world's largest online learning communities that has tens of thousands of classes on everything, like illustration, business, creative writing, music, and productivity. And the first 1,000 Legal Eagles will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium when you click on the link in the description. Plus, after the trial ends, Skillshare is still way more affordable than most online learning platforms out there, with plans starting at less than $10 per month. So just click on the link below to get a free trial membership of Skillshare. Plus, clicking on that link really helps out this channel. So do you agree with my analysis? Do you think that the Supreme Court should stay at nine justices or should it be expanded? Leave your objections in the comments and check out this playlist over here with all of my other Real Law Reviews talking about the crazy stuff that's happening in the Trump administration, COVID-related legal issues and all of the important legal issues of the day. So click on this playlist and I'll see you in court.
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Channel: LegalEagle
Views: 556,810
Rating: 4.9210582 out of 5
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Length: 18min 3sec (1083 seconds)
Published: Wed Dec 23 2020
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