What to Know When Buying Land in the Midwest w/ Ben Rising | HUNTR Podcast #132

my neighbor passed him we had been passing him leaving him alone and he ended up getting killed by a neighbor um so on a corn pile on a corn pile with a crossbow anyways all this time [Applause] [Music] [Applause] the hunter podcast is brought to you by deer grow man it's almost food plot season Jared and dear girl is one of those products that has really changed the way that we plant food plots and the success we've seen from them no doubt I've been you know trying to plant food products my entire Whitetail hunting career is a little shorter than yours but the minute that I started or that I you know I realized that I could get deer grow back into some of these remote plots where I couldn't get lime or fertilizer especially in the 50 pound bag you know format so everything was changed you know I could get into these spots moving forward with the backpack sprayer and that since escalated to these 40 or 60 gallon sprayers and we're doing upwards of you know five to ten acre food plots just with your girl and having phenomenal success yeah and I mean with the price of fertilizer lime diesel everything this year I mean what better way to get in there and grow successful food plot at about a third of the cost check out deer grow at deergrow.com and we're back on our podcast episode 132 Nick is in South Carolina you make a downer uh we're not very good parents oh well hopefully we made it down all right was there a moving process right I don't think he owns very many he's like I just packed a backpack he's like basically got knapsack like on a stick over here yeah yeah I think that was it so he's he's gonna spend a few weeks down in uh South Carolina his car it is girlfriend I don't know Nick we hope you made it down there he's still he's still on a bicycle bark twice if you're in Milwaukee uh yeah I'm sure you made it we'll check in with them today now that we say that uh it is June 8th June 8th June 8th so we I don't know when this is airing after Janae mid-june but uh we have been in a massive drought yeah I'm about to come to a close here about to come to a close light at the end of the tunnel in fact uh coincidentally yesterday I got .2 in Kentucky got a boy out of nowhere we'll take it it's point two point two is point two that's real good yeah that's better than after a drought like that you don't want it all at once no so it it should uh well we talked about it I think we're both putting in beans this weekend mine's tomorrow Friday Friday yeah I'll start tomorrow I'll probably finish Saturday and then Sunday rain comes it looks like like all rain next week it looks real good so finally gonna get that determined but I mean it's been I saw something uh the other day was posted I think it it had been 17 days or something without measurable rain here in the Pittsburgh area uh and like that's like second to only one other time when it was like an 1870 something like I was gonna say I don't from it's not we don't typically get those droughts in in like May and June it's typically shut off like August September yeah because we're not you know the brass yeah that's it's usually early August is when it shuts off because then we start thinking like oh EHD and like it's it's usually the Nebraska plot says Nebraska comes up then it dries out and then it's like geez yeah now it's been and I mean I feel for the farmers who you know crop wise typically they're they're banking on good rain in May to get their beans and their corn really into this thing you know like even for antler growth too it's kind of concerning because there's a lot so much is happening right now and it's like just those plants don't have that moisture it's it seems like we're like I like you said our beans are not in the ground yet and it's it's mid-jun we're playing brassicas in a month and a half well we talked about it our um like uh my mineral licks are not getting used at all either that's not that picture I sent you this morning that was a good Buck decent it's probably that four-year-old that wine one yeah I mean I'm I'm not getting many pictures at those and it's because normally they're getting so much water through the water content of the plants they're eating that they end up you know pissing a lot is what happens and the salt comes out and then they go to the minerals for the salt yeah that's not happening because it's a drought it's funny how those things are kind of just like scrapes in terms of when you can expect them to hit it you know it's right after that especially if it's been dry they just they pound next week they'll they'll hammer on my bed yeah good thing I have one camera I I literally just I was like oh this thing has an active subscription on it so I just I tossed it out why not just box on it yeah I'm holding off pretty good here I mean but we're just buried in work so I mean July 1st I think is the day you know that's by then you can kind of start to tell what they're working with and maybe Who's Who and yeah so July 1st I'll get most of mine out not too far man so but yeah just dry and you know I think adding into the like May is always a month it's just kind of like from a hunting perspective it's just wow yeah you know it's just there and uh June has been that way too with lack of rain or something about just like ah just everything is just like Ugh just dry nothing's happening it's like no no and for most of the country or at least the eastern part of the country this week we're dealing with all the fire smoke from Canada coming down it's been crazy who's dealing with it we are you've not paid attention to this anymore we have fire smoke here you've not pay attention you didn't realize like in Pittsburgh it looked like orange yesterday no I had no idea yeah yeah like massive fires uh burn like almost 10 million acres in uh like Quebec and Ottawa wow and that smoke has come down like New York City look like I've noticed it's been hazy but I mean not that's fire smoke yeah all right yeah so yeah it's been it's been I was confident a little bit a little dry out yeah so yeah that's been until today it's like supposed to finally fall out today but yeah New York was crazy man it was like look like Gotham City wow yeah it was like majorly like people were wearing uh like n95 masks again yeah walking around yeah just don't walk around I guess but yeah so I mean you've got that and I mean again there's that's Canada being super dry and and like burning yeah I've I had no idea I was like how big are these fires would look last night it's like 10 million Acres it's like wow 10 million Acres a third of Ohio was on fire that's how big it is there's 10 million acres and a third of Ohio yes Ohio is like 28 million Acres or something wow that's a lot of Acres yeah yeah so like if a third of Ohio was on fire that's how big the fire Ohio is 28 million Acres interesting yeah I wouldn't have guessed anywhere close to that yeah I didn't know either so I think it's actually like 9.3 or 9.5 that have been burning in Canada right now um but still a third of Ohio million Acres yeah a third of Ohio would be on fire I guess relatively speaking it's not that big right Canada's pretty big yeah oh in terms of Canada is it a populated area in Canada no I think it's like Northern Ontario no Northern Quebec and Ottawa like if not for the snow smoke nobody would even know probably yeah what happened here our guest might today Ben May because I assume that's playing a big havoc on like Timber production and stuff I mean if you've got massive fire yeah because I mean Canada is a a pretty big Timber producer right um so I would assume that you know you're burning 9 million Acres up there that's probably not good for the timber business yeah wow um but so uh leak there been rising uh is our guest today you want to tell people about your uh your tooth yeah let's get it out of the way you can see her I'm missing uh a mission and a teacher I don't know what that is it's not an incisor like a front uh whatever lost my teeth in a 75 bone-in rib eye last night can't eat the bone man all all four of these teeth are are fake they're they're capped that's from the uh yeah from a Motocross accent when I was a teenager and so I've got a root canal in that one that had a cap on it and it's the the last time I lost it it was from biting a split shot it shattered just a couple years ago I remember that so yeah it's funny my first thought was when I lost it last night but first of all was [ __ ] and then and I swallowed it and the second one was I gotta I have two podcasts tomorrow I was like which is whatever and then I got a funeral I gotta go to on on Saturday which is the least of the you know but it's like man I don't want to just be looking stupid you know suit and I'm missing missing tooth you know I think the funnier part was we talked about if you were gonna have to look for that cap and your poop today yeah well if it would save me some money I would I certainly would have you know I've dropped one already since then so you're gonna put the [ __ ] tooth back in your mouth that's Mark you said I was like yeah yeah I'll rinse it off obvious obviously a little bit of soap I mean it'll be fine right uh so yeah we got we got that out of the way but yeah never a dull dull moment yeah so uh anyways uh yep June 8th and let's bring uh Ben Rising on all right the hunter podcast is brought to you by stealthcam dude where would we be without our cell cams I would definitely be divorced at this point yeah I hear that I mean the fact is is I spent more time checking cameras than I actually did hunting prior to cell cameras now at least my wife can enjoy me being in the comfort of my own home buried in my phone checking those pictures 100 and dude when it comes to trail cameras I definitely sell cameras reliability is I think the number one thing that we're looking for Stealth cam just has a long reputation of reliable cameras and ultimately that is the most important thing to us they have to work in terms of reliability there's not a better camera on the market than Stealth cam where they're talking about the fusion X the reactor the DS 4K train and most of them are under 200 bucks southcam.com check them out [Music] what's up man oh not too much guys how are you all doing oh not bad after uh you know having to deal with Jared's loss of tooth here Ben I'm gonna reach over can you see me hey there hillbilly I know dude it's amazing how ugly or like how you know one tooth and it's like I'm a different person really what you should do is color one of them black to even it out it looks like you got Indian corn teeth yeah there you go yeah you just need like a permanent like gold grill to throw up over there yeah it's a little bit a little protection dude I knew you got a new job but you must have come into some money yeah yeah that's tough I mean Ben you've seen Jared he's an aggressive eater uh so I mean it's not surprising that the tooth the tooth well I'm telling you I could I would admit like if it's like oh I crunched down on something I should know but I literally just was I just chew in the chase steak like it it was pretty soft like a medium rare wasn't obviously a medium rare wasn't you know it was going well done yeah or anything and uh yeah I just just came out and I felt it now you feel something hard I just didn't understand how you you felt it but then somehow you still swallowed it I know that's weird you know how you feel something hard in her it's like it's just not supposed to be there like even if it's aggressor or like like bone in a fish or something yeah and you feel it instantly and you're like oh and I spat it out and I don't know tooth was gone tooth was gone Jared's like a bulldog eating mayonnaise yeah I'm not sure what that implies but I've never heard that one before oh [ __ ] uh well Ben appreciate you coming on man it's um you know like Jerry and I kind of talked about and you're in the same boat there in Ohio it's freaking dry dude oh it's so dry yeah it's uh I have never I can't ever remember it being this dry this long this time of year yeah and it's really got things messed up across the whole Midwest because like you guys were saying just a little bit earlier you know from the farmers so I mean I just talked to my buddy in Illinois and actually he Farms my farm in Illinois and just crying the blues you know I mean like everything got sprouted everything was coming up and then boom yeah hammered and we're at a standstill the ultimate worry of EHD comes into play No Doubt especially this early I mean again like Jared was saying normally it's like okay you know August into September we're worried about it you know I mean we obviously got rain coming but if we stay dry it's not going to be good everything I feel affects antler growth you know just so many different things so I don't know we'll just have to see but hopefully this rain coming can at least you know if we get it we're they're saying we're gonna get some rain you know Sunday Sunday Monday Tuesday possibly here yeah so yeah it's like 60 which I've seen go to zero before you know but hopefully there's there's long enough stretch of it it's it's you know at least a three four day deal we got to catch some of it yeah I mean I think the the the big things that people have to look at I mean obviously we talk or we think about crops and food plot a lot but from a native side right I mean this drought is putting so much stress on that early good forage that typically is you know super high in protein easily digestible it's not like I mean it's fading fast Acorn absolutely yeah I mean the stress on all of the everything we talk about from a native habitat side is gonna is gonna have an effect I mean you know it doesn't mean that these deer can't recover because obviously they're going to put on most of their their inches of antler here in June and July but I mean it's gonna take a it's not like that Rain's Gonna hit and you know all the this forage is going to bounce back the next day I mean it's going to take a week or two to suck up and really start to enhance that that nutrition back into it one thing you guys are talking about mineral licks and one thing that the listeners can do that is a good thing this time of year because when it is dry the deer don't so much want that salt yeah right and so a lot of times what I'll do is I'll take and dump water on my mineral licks like buckets of water or take a sprayer keep them damp and keep that dirt soft or the stumps you know to where they're and and really like rotten wood this time of year like I really like my mineral looks to be on logs or stumps if I can yeah some areas you don't have that option so if you got the right kind of dirt but I try to keep that dirt as soft as I can interest and what do you think that does Ben well it just you know do you want to look it's kind of like looking you know do you want to go look sand or do you want to go look right yeah yeah and so I feel like they're still then because I feel like it's Ultra important for them to get the most out of the mineral this time of year if we're this dry I mean I've seen that on the log side of things like I do that you put yours on a log yeah I don't know why necessarily I my thought process is always like well it's going to soak into the log and they'll just eat well I mean if you think about like uh you know let's say a log that's rotting out and I mean it to to a point right but there there's a lot of moisture that's kept into that yeah that log itself right versus it sitting on a rock or just on bear dry dirt or whatever you know and so I think it does you know soak up into that and I mean you know does deer will rip that thing apart and I mean they'll eat that you know in inner parts of that log that are soaked with moisture they don't destroy it but where I have to use a lot of logs like that is in some areas you get like that real gritty nasty they just utilize them way more better yeah way more because they're not getting that gritty sure yeah yeah I need that feeling I don't know no I I would agree with that yeah it's such a weird and again you know I'm used to talking about this in August or early September or whatever the fact that we're here in like it was just may you know we're talking about drought and like oh it's we don't even have our summer stuff planted yeah our beans aren't in the ground and stuff yeah because I mean we were going to and then the water shut off yeah it's like well now what you know Clover Clover is super stressed I know I'm a little worried to see mine yeah I mean it's just it you know most of that Clover goes dormant in the summer at some point because it's just you know the Str the Heat and the stress but it shouldn't have been in May you know into early June yeah um what do you think actually happens to you talking about the native Forge being stressed and like you know those Clover plots are in the ground already you think that lack of moisture it doesn't actually affect the nutrient quality it's just the amount of forage that's there right I mean it it does so you know as a plant matures right it becomes in a lot of cases less digestible so the deer can't get the nutrients out of it but typically the one um Quality that you do see drop as that plant gets a little bit down the maturity line or it doesn't have that water content is is crude protein so you see it with like soybeans like soybeans have the highest crude protein early in their growth stage right the soybeans in August are much less in crude protein than they are in May and June usually now this year I don't know how that's going to pan out but a lot of it is because of it as it ages you know and as it matures you essentially have that that crude protein level drop in it same with Clover you know the older Clover it gets or the the harder it is to to consume you know some of those protein levels are dropping in that Clover so like dried out Clover right now is not nearly as full of crude protein as it was in April or early May when it was probably full mosh interesting so it's not all nutrients right but I mean certain key things when we talk about beans and clover and things and protein like that is that is what he's speculating or you know that no it it definitely drops protein is reduced with lack of moisture well it's it's also just the way that that plant is in its growth cycle so even though it's early growth stages that stress is going to drop those levels significantly huh um and I mean that's why you don't want stress on your plants and anything or crops even but it does also like let's say it's a normal Rainier right from the plants in May and June even though they're still Green in August the crude protein levels are significantly lower that I get you know in terms of the maturity yeah but the stress is also going to drop those off like so if you did a forage sample right now um on Clover versus May early May when we had some rain it's going to be dramatically different yeah anyways uh hey Ben where's your farm at in Illinois roughly I didn't hear you which part of the state is your Illinois Farm in I didn't hear you yeah it's kind of central kind of central German are looking at a piece out there um that yeah it's West Central yeah dude I hate to be that way but I cannot tell you the issues I've had like it is just amazing to me really with when people it's just really sickening truthfully I mean it's not like people can't find it yeah but I mean it I I hear what you're saying I I I mean it's like what do people really think they think that just because they can get close to you that they're gonna I don't know what it is like oh I'm close to Mercury's farmer that's exactly what they think or Ben rising or Blaze or whatever you know it's like or like you know like somebody takes your lease after you kill a big buck yeah dude it's dead yeah no they 100 did they if they if you have a big farm right and somebody buys against your farm they 100 believe that they're going to capitalize on your hard work yeah I mean that's that's just the way and very well easily can but what I'm saying is it's like it's just not how I want to roll yeah you know and like I'm a nice guy to all my neighbors whatever and and really most of the stuff any of the stuff I have in Illinois or any of the states I've been very strategic in what I'm buying or leasing or getting permission on and I make sure that like what the neighbors are like already and I have a really good relationship with all my neighbors anyways so nobody can really even get close to me yeah but it's just the fact that they think even in general if they can get into the same dang County it can be you know if it's going to change things you know um and in a can I guess you would agree but I I've just never like I've always just been one to like kind of go carve my own way or find It Go a different direction or you know but uh basically it's it's like it's kind of like North Central Illinois yeah you know well dude if I had to guess it's probably not like you well and who knows you can tell us here but uh you probably just were like open to whatever opportunity came up in terms of like I want to be in Illinois you know and I just yeah was looking when we finally decided to buy you know me and my partner mark it was like we weren't we weren't like just dead step on any specific County yeah I mean we were open to any ideas from you know obviously with Buy price we we kind of had some you know really good inclinations of where we wanted to be and it did so work out that we could actually be in a county that we were very familiar with and it hunted with in years for years like it was my most familiar County so it worked out but you know um since I've been out there you know I mean I've been hunting Illinois since 99. yeah um you know a long time and it's like even the locals like since I finally started buying dirt like where I do have dirt the locals are absolutely amazed at what I know and like the people I know and well I was like yeah but you don't understand I've been hunting here right and coming out here for you know 20-something years like it's not like I'm just some dumb City kid that your city boy that you know just come out here and bought a farm because I had money to throw away you know well and did that local knowledge in the neighborhood is ultimately probably so much more important than the county or the part of the state like you can find big deer almost anywhere in Illinois it's the those local neighborhoods of uh you know whatever the neighbors have probably more of an impact on the local deer herd than the part of the state oh absolutely and I'm like I'm like I cannot even stress you how blessed I am with the neighbors that I have like literally it's just been a godsend like some of them I mean some of my neighbors are like literally like family like seriously like I mean they mow for me they look after my stuff um it's just like being here at home like you know you know it's just like just such good people and you just can't always get that right like for instance you know I bought a 90 some acres in Kentucky and it is completely opposite like I have never had and I've always said this for years and I don't know what it is about Kentucky I've never had more problems anywhere in my life than I have had in Kentucky yeah people passing and doing things like it is insane yeah I think it I think it all comes down to the neighbors you have like so far in Kentucky I haven't had too many issues but my Ohio place has been a bear you know yeah and that's how and so like it really does I mean I guess it's just luck of the draw it is but you know I've got him obviously you know my buddy that's in Kentucky yeah he doesn't have problems no but uh you know and I know another guy that doesn't really have any problems too I think it's just literally where things are set up where they're at what they're close to yeah and you know it just depends but um but yeah as far as Illinois goes and even in Missouri you know we have a place out there and I'm just so blessed with the neighbors that I have because and truthfully like that is key because if you don't have good neighbors and you don't have somebody that can somewhat kind of help you out like that is one thing I literally had to learn to let go yeah if that makes sense like I've always been a little bit of a control freak especially when it comes to Deer and I had to learn that look Ben you cannot accomplish you cannot have a regular job a family live eight hours to ten hours away and get everything done yourself it is never going to happen and to do it properly um so it's really been it's kind of been good for me in a sense because I've kind of like let up on a few things and I've let some people help me and and you know even like fans truthfully like I've met some really good people through my social media channels and stuff of people that are kind of in the same general area they find out and you know they become you know they're really good guys you know and they just truly genuinely want to help you out yeah like there's still people like that that's fun we've experienced that too man we have people reach out like oh hey I'm right by your phone down here and and uh it's that's probably been one of the biggest benefits of this podcast is like just getting to know people in areas that we hunt and well I mean my neighbors on My Ohio place found us through this podcast and they're like hey weird question like not sure but the way you're talking about this you might be my neighbor on this in this play and what and those guys have been there for 20 years so immediately I'm now tapped into 20 years of of history in that area and these guys are telling me things that I had no clue about you know so yeah there are great people still out there um and then there are also people that just are looking to take advantage of the situation and that's true I mean you're gonna get both and I guess what I was trying to get at it was luckily the relationships that I do have with the you know what I so call my family neighbors out there they're so like looking after my best interests at like you know people aren't going to get away with much they might get away with a little bit but they're going to get caught you know what I mean and like and it's funny and I'll tell you there's a quick story like in in like how this so when we first bought the first Farm me and my buddy mark and it was it's a such a crazy story um how it all worked out and I don't know if you even want to hear it but we didn't explain it um so like we we had a 70 in Ohio and we were we'd had it for a few years and we had originally bought it me and Mark to to sell it and you know like just as an investment we'd hunt it a little bit and then maybe sell it well we finally decided like you know we're we're gonna look for something different we weren't hunting it it was a little farther south than where we had our home dirt and in your own State I find that it's harder to travel to hunt when you've got dirt close to home yeah so um we decided we would sell it and it just so happened a neighbor to the farm had just sold his business he was retiring and it just worked out perfect and he bought it he was glad we were glad for him to get it because it added to his piece he already had and it was just great you know we weren't into this hole let's Bust It Up get every dollar we can yep turn it into uh you know we were glad to make the money we turned that into a you know to start looking so we had 1031 money so and uh we went to Illinois we were looking around and I finally found this one place in in Mark's like you know Mark's kind of like me and Mark have a special relationship it's kind of like Mark lets me kind of handle the land side of things and the you know because these like wider you know we just have this really good relationship in that sense Mark handles the bankers the business side of things I handle this side of things you know we kind of have different tasks it works perfect critical yeah so um we get out there I find this piece I basically literally we commit to it on over online not even ever seen it I knew the area enough I knew that I knew the aerial I was looking at it I'm like a backdated my maps clear onto Google and looked clear back you know and I watched the progression of the farm and you know I could tell where Timber had been cut where it wasn't things like that and I'm like this is in our roundhouse this will work perfect it was 160 Acres and so we committed to it signed a purchase agreement and we're going out to go look at it we meet with the realtor I get out there early one morning drove eight hours got up at like three in the morning got out there uh and I got there early and I walked the whole Farm on my own I didn't want to be around anybody I just wanted to walk and when I got there and this is no lie like and this is kind of a long story but as soon as I got there I pulled into the farm and I got out of my truck and before I even stepped out of my truck completely I set my foot on the ground and I just had this feeling come over me and I was just like I mean it was emotional because I never really bought something like this you know what I mean and so I kneeled beside my truck and I just thank God for the opportunity and was just like you know this really and enamored at what you're allowing me to have and you know what me and Mark have been able to do and just you know really appreciate it and thank you for this farm and then I walked it and it was just even more than I can imagine like it was just mindful to me I just couldn't get over it I was so emotional so we I get back to the truck and about that time the realtor pulls in and he just had this look on his face and I'm like this is weird you know and uh then Mark pulls in and he looks he's like dude I got some really really bad news and I'm like what and he's like turns out there was some guys leasing this Farm and they had in their contract with the donor that they had first writer's refusal if he ever sold it on and somebody agreed to a price they could match it jeez and I'm like what you know so like instantly it was like this huge chicken sack you know just a giant lot down and then I I caught myself man I went up to Brad and I was like I put my hand on the shoulder and I look at him straight in the face because I was like dude I had too much of a feeling about this and I put my hand on his shoulder and I was like you know what Brad I was like it's like this I said My God Is Bigger Than these four guys from Chicago that want to take this from us now they didn't want it before but once they found out who was getting it then they're like okay it's good enough we'll take it and I said they didn't want it until they found out it was me and I said my God's bigger than four guys in Chicago and I said if I'm supposed to get it I will get it if I'm not I won't and Mark looked at me and he agreed so at that point the realtor supreme but he's like well let me show you some other stuff and at that point honestly dude and he showed us a great Farm like literally that I just couldn't even look at yeah you just knew yeah yeah and so long now scale so I so I could go supposing these guys are like Benny because these guys are cash buyers he's like I just don't see this not not happening it's like well we'll see three weeks goes by he calls me he's like you still want that farm I was like which one he's like well the one that you originally won I was like well of course and he's like they can't get the financing I was like I thought you said they were these guys were all business owners yeah and I said I thought you said they were going to pay cash and he's like dude I don't know what's going on he goes but they cannot get the money and that's like what did I tell you Brad never forget it he's like that's all I keep thinking about is what you said and I said we're meant to have this farm so we got so then this was even crazier so then there was 160 that was a this used to be a 323 Acre Farm All Is One Piece then the Neighbors Farm was for sale at the same time but they were asking a really high price at the time it wouldn't sound high now after covet prices but this was right before covet hit well that's what I was gonna say so this was like what 2018-19 when you bought this Farm 2019 as well Nick at times yeah so long story short he's like dude the neighbor's Farm because then I kept looking at things and I told Marcus and Mark we got to buy that farm too I said I know we really can't afford it I said but we could not afford not to is this the adjacent is this the adjacent 160 that was part of the original for you yeah yeah and it was to the South and it had the best access and had a building on it and I said but man I said Mark literally if the people can buy that if somebody gets that Bond they could kill us like they could suck every deer we're trying to into this back field and and he's like I agree he's like man they want way too much for it and the guy I guess was kind of difficult to deal with and you know people hadn't even made him offers within a 50 bucks and of his asking price and he never took it it's been for sale like two years two years within 50 I was asking for US dollars to get it within 50 bucks an acre of an acre okay you would never tell so long story short I'm like you go to the Thriller and we're like hey go to his realtor and make him this offer and he just laughs at us he's like dude there's no way he will take that like it's impossible like that is like 700 bucks less than acre than he's even asking and my you gotta understand my buddy Mark like he is just like well I met Mark yeah so Mark is like I've learned so much from Mark in that sense of things like he's like you don't know until you ask yeah he's like of course he can do is say no yeah and I've heard him say worse and I'm like I agree I was like well What's It Gonna Hurt so and I was like you know I already feel like God's involved in this whole ordeal anyways like we weren't really supposed to get this we got it turns out the same guys that were trying to buy the piece we were trying to buy are now trying to buy that piece [Laughter] so the realtor lady literally wouldn't even she she said I'm not even gonna make it that offer and Brad's like just try it please you know there are really so she goes to him makes the offer she calls Brad back and she goes I don't know what is going on and I can't figure this out but he countered and she goes it's 500 less an acre than he's been asking for years and he'll take it yep Jesus so we signed it it was crazy and so at that point we couldn't afford not to do it and back then and we got this great Banker uh his name's Zach I mean Zach's the best and so like we got this great deal at like three percent yeah I mean it's just like Market Network magic and dude it's just like it it doesn't even pay to pay it off yeah and Zach's from out there in Illinois yeah yeah correct and so like we just timed everything right and then over covid the farm increased like two thousand dollars oh I was gonna say I mean you just cranked your Equity right into it yeah and yeah it's just been a it's been a real blessing and just like I don't know and I tell that story to people about like and I I just say that like you know as far as like just speaking my face but it's just like dude like just some of those things that I've seen happen like that they just don't happen like there's some there's a higher power involved you know I think it's I think it's crazy when um you know because Jared and I've looked at a lot of different properties and stuff but there's certain ones that you step on to that you just know and maybe like I don't know certain ones like I don't know why like even that Ohio place I bought it wasn't like I knew like oh I'm gonna kill giant bucks here but I just knew it was the the property that I was looking for because at that time I was looking for a hunting property and an investment property you know and obviously we're working on the timber side of this now Ben but like it just you know it's gonna pan out to be an awesome property that I bought you know absolutely and it just it's just weird when you walk those because there's other ones I've walked that I'm just like yeah like it's nice it's just you don't have that feeling it's when you step on a piece of ground and you immediately get that feeling it's like a piece about it you know it's if you can approach it from if it happens it happens you know type of a mindset then there's the pressure is kind of off yeah it's off and if it is meant to happen it will yeah well and that's where I think people get um yeah I don't know if they get they get caught up in it or what but you know there there's certain ones that you know even in today's with like higher interest rates and stuff if you step on a piece of property and it just it's the one you know I wouldn't worry about seven percent interest rate right now I'd lock it up and then think about refinancing at 18 months from now Ben have you stayed in touch with that Banker oh yeah we're good buds man like I mean yeah I may have I may have you put us in touch with them if you're willing at some point yeah absolutely yeah as we're looking at stuff out there they've been great to work with we've done other deals with them since uh and literally they go out of their way obviously the health that we build equity into the farm and things yeah um you know but some other things have come up that were unexpected like I don't know why but like that that's just how things go sometimes and like bam all of a sudden yeah your neighboring Farm comes up and you're like oh my gosh what are we gonna do you know then you get creative and you figure things out and you know you might have to add another guy into your LLC or whatever but dude I'm just telling you if you have the right people involved and you have the right mindset you know so then my buddy Dan he came into this picture and so we were able to put another piece together that touches this and kind of building this block and um you know originally we were like okay we're gonna buy some stuff to you know to start buying it make it better hunt it a few years sell it and turn it into and basically end up with an end game farm type deal um not trying to be like some land flipping right business but right more or less trying to get to a goal but I truly feel like the very first Farm we bought was our end game farm yeah and but now we're like trying to find other deals that okay well we could buy these do things with them and sell those to somebody in a really at a good price but give them a really good Farm that's set up and yet then we could take that income and invest it into our farm to help get our debt down but I'm a land [ __ ] and it hasn't happened yet I was gonna say man that seems to be the toughest thing especially you know like thinking about you know when you buy a piece of land and you become attached to it then the thought of selling it would maybe you don't need to sell it that's a that's a tough thing to go across oh dude it's been the toughest thing for me because like I didn't grow up with land yeah exactly I think my own land I did not grow up with that never had that and always had to rely on other people and you know get permission or work for it or and but I respected everybody's land so much and you know so much to the point where some of the ground I grew up on people literally would say like well that's Ben's Woods you know be on the ground they're his Woods yeah and but I treated those people with such respect and because I knew how important it was and my dad taught me that thankfully at least you know thankfully I have parents and family that taught me what that privilege was and it wasn't something to be taken lightly and so long story short like to then start getting your own land and have partners and people involved that are allowing the doors to be opened to acquire a decent amount of ground I never thought we'd have this much land um and it's not because like we're all just Rich we've just been creative and we've figured out ways and we've really worked hard and it's taken years you know like I never bought my first piece of dirt till I was like 39 40 years old as far as like a a real piece of acreage not my house and stuff but you know like a real piece of decent sized land and you know I have these young guys walk up to me that are in their mid-20s and I just can't see them I'm like dude do you realize like it just takes time like don't get discouraged like just be smart with what you're doing now work hard things will work out yeah yeah no I think that's a big I think that's a big piece of it and I mean I think the creative aspect of it is it's super important and it becomes tough when you know because people hear about investing in real estate and stuff and and the fact is that most of those things are dealing with you know renters or whatever you know apartment complexes and money when you talk about land you know there's there's only a handful of things that can earn you income to pay for land right it's you know cash rent it's CRP it's Timber it's oil and gas like that's that's pretty much it like some of them can more than pay for it for sure especially oil and gas but you know to plan for that or have the foresight it's just it's not going to happen it's not like in today like in those areas where the oil and gas are good you can't hardly buy a piece of dirt with a mineral rights exactly that's for a word yeah they don't exist dude I've had people say hey I only want to buy you know a piece of has oil and gas prices but it's like I just so there's not any point in us even looking yeah it's not gonna happen it doesn't happen and so it's same with the timber like for instance your your piece of property in Ohio Jeremy like I mean I've been in the timber business my whole life and those deals only come Acro come along every so often I mean very very seldom yeah and so like you know for you to have landed that one like you did was just that's such a rarity yeah you know and luckily you had the wherewithal within your mind to know I better buy this and not that that good I mean I'm not giving it too much credit here but enough that I when I walked it I was like those are Oaks I was like oh yeah that's good and I I told like I said probably you and Ben the same pictures as I'm walking that but again I had that feeling walking that I'm like I'm thinking in my mind you know I can make this a good hunting place right this this is a good farm for me it sets up right the cost is right everything's right the The Fringe benefit and we've talked about it a lot is I look at Timber as my security on an investment if that if I'm looking at what I believe is good Timber I may not know the dollar value to it but I know that or the market in that area which is you know we we have the least knowledge on that yeah no idea and so I'm just looking at that place saying okay it's got Timber it looks good so there's security and I think I can make it a good hunting place that checked the boxes for me that was good right right right you know and and here's the funny part so like out in Illinois they don't want to buy any kind of Timber unless it's own white oak or walnuts that's what we were talking about yeah and it stinks because like the Farms some of the Farms we have have just beautiful red oak on them and hard maple and stuff and they don't care at all and they don't want it and it just stinks because it's like I know what that would sell for back here yeah we could get some income back you know and help get our debt down on those farms and you know the crop rent is good but a lot of our Farms aren't you know the crop they're not like 50 50 Farms you know they're more like you know 2080 Farms 20 tillable or usable compared to hunting Parts which is not the greatest but dude the the buy per acre when we were buying compared to what things are now out there like and that's why we started going there because the prices in Ohio were so insane Yeah in our area to go out there and to look at something that was between you know 35 and four and acre felt like a Christmas present yeah yeah that's it you know I think that that Equity side of things is so important out of the gate I mean if you if you can visualize equity in that property you know really within the next five years let alone in your case it was two or three um I mean that's a huge that that immediately makes it a good investment and people have to understand when we're talking about this on this podcast like sure we all want like a bang and hunting property but again we're not rich guys so this is truly a big investment for our families like a giant investment yeah dude it's stressful like I just wrote my check out the other day for my payment for the year because we do one lump sum payment every year yeah and uh I went ahead and stroke that check and I'm like yeah but at the same time I'm very thankful that I can do it but it's a family effort it's my wife and I you know sacrificing and committing to it and like this is what we're gonna do she understands that these are investments yeah and uh you know that they're worth it in the long run because land is you know she's a realtor you know and so she understands she gets it and she knows so it's like but you know we both never thought that we would ever be looking at the kind of ground that we're attached to at this point in our life but again without the right Partners too it would it could have never happened yeah you know so things have just kind of fell into place and I just really feel like God has kind of out of hand in all of it you know from the start and it's just I give him thanks about it and I don't ever lose sight of that and I just feel like that's very important and you know to young guys out there like dude I can remember being you know back in 2005 six seven eight whatever you know running around with Mark duriato turkey hunting and things and he was really just starting to get into buying land and putting things together at a bigger scale then and you know man I used to just in myself I could remember in my own mind going not so much jealous but just like I'm never gonna be able to do this this is never gonna happen for me for me and I mean it's not to that any kind of that scale that they're able to do it but to even have what I have now I never thought would happen and I'm so thankful for it and like just it can happen dude let's like just put your nose to the grindstone be smart surround yourself with good knowledge listen to podcasts like this learn from people that have done it and ask questions because in one rule of thumb and this is like March rule of thumb too that he's made himself very successful in his own business was like if you can't buy if you can't buy the deal within a margin of like where you feel it's like at least 20 25 under market value do not buy it because you have to have an exit strategy that makes sense unless you know something or you know the land is going to increase and value that much more coming then okay we we've made a few me and Dan have bought a few in a little bit top or end here but we know that they'll pay off eventually because of the type of deer right and just what the market will do but Mark's rule of thumb has always been kind of that 25 and I'm talking Mark weibarger here yeah 25 below market value because you want to buy at a good price then you're instantly above you're already above the game and so everything we've bought has appraised for more than what we bought it for and that's key yeah so Ben and some of those new properties that you're doing and not like prying into the financials but are you guys leveraging the equity in your existing ones well we did for a 221 acre piece that was it yeah um my partner Dan um is he had some you know I don't want to like try to get too personal for anybody's business but Dan had some money to invest because he had sold some stuff and so that kind of helped us get into some other pieces that normally we probably wouldn't have been able to because we were able to leverage Dan's what he had yeah and so Dan and I structured a special kind of deal there to where like okay this is how it'll work this because you're putting up you know most of the funds I'll do this part of the deal this will be my responsibility and then in the end when we sell this is how we'll work everything out cool um so it's perfect for me it works good for Dan it's a great relationship um and so like again there's always just different ways to skin a cat and um but like me and Mark literally were able to add 221 Acres to our original Three 323 for zero bucks because of the equity right over yeah dude I love the group buying aspect like not only does it like essentially double your money your ability to what you can purchase but also I've thought about this before I'm like you know this Jeremy and I are looking at an at an 80 in Illinois or multiple you know 80s or what that kind of General size there I'm like dude I wouldn't buy something like that by myself I just wouldn't I just wouldn't go out and use it as much I mean I I would I would I would want to right yeah you know but the fact that you and I are looking at buying that piece together not only for allows us to you know for to be in our wheelhouse but it's like that's what the trips will be it's like yeah we can go out together from a use of strategy a conversation yeah and dude it requires a lot of coordination like you know our partnership at this point is whatever eight ten years yeah um and to your point earlier Ben is there's a lot of sacrifice involved in like not spending money in other areas so that we can afford a farm like us yeah yeah I mean I think that when you start to look at those kind of things and I you know it's crazy that we're at this point but you know you look at buying those farms in 19 like I bought my first piece of ground coincidentally again you know not predicting the market but bought my first place in Kentucky in 2019 and then I think two three years you know it went up 45 or 46 000 in in equity you know um and so I I think when you start to look at these things you know it it's you can't you you can't anticipate what the Market's gonna do right so that's probably why Mark's looking at it and saying hey if I you know I want to get in there at 25 less than what it is currently because we don't know what it depends on what Market you're talking about too though because some somebody might have come to your farm that knew what they were looking at as far in Timber and said you're getting it for less than 20 you know 25 Less in market value sure you know and another just standard realtor or whoever might have just not not known that yeah I had no idea same is true for the recreational Market especially I think in the midwest like Ben like you're saying is the simple fact that you bought that farm and have hunted it and have killed big gear off of it is increasing the market value I don't know if it's 25 but it's it's it's something and that was our whole plan was like we were going to build a portfolio and eventually I'm sure that farm will be for sale you know and our our plan is at some point when we decide you know we don't know when it's going to be it's going to be years from now most likely on that piece um but even some of these other ones you know like um to be able to know like for people to know that somebody legitly like me went in there killed deer they're on video you can prove it you can see the trees you can see the background it's not fake it's not like going around sprinkling sheds yeah you know to sell a piece of property it's legit info portfolios on what you did and documented on the TV show yeah and you hand that to a buyer a special buyer that's like really looking for that farm okay um you get a premium dollar and they know they're paying premium but they also know that the proof is in the pudding it's not like I mean the trail history trail cam history that I will have acquired on these places well yeah by exactly it's time to sell we'll just literally in itself below people's minds well I think that's a huge point because a lot of the properties I've looked at in the midwest they're advertised as hunting properties they're priced as hunting and recreational properties you give me zero trail cam or any history of what's happened on that property it's like how can you justify this being a hunting property and price like these other top tier hunting properties yet you've got zero history provided to to show me yeah yeah I mean and there's so much of that and like or you look at the the trail cam the trail cam pictures they do have well why is the date cropped out oh because it was 10 years ago yeah exactly well and that's like so many of that little things that you have to kind of yeah you have to what's the old thing you got to sift through see through yeah that's it man we'll do most of the properties that Jeremy and I are looking at Ben are like yes it would be great if there was a recent trail camera it would be great if they kill a 200 inch on it last year but like the price is always reflected and and you know German aren't necessarily looking for a turnkey place you know we want something that people don't necessarily see the value we're looking for a deal right and so if it's listed on some obscure Realtors website or it's you know there is no trail cam history if Jeremy and I can gather enough evidence from uh you know the pictures that do exist or our knowledge of the area or um I think that's where you're going to find a deal so but I wasn't like I believe the first piece we bought had no Trail campus yeah otherwise it would have been double the cost right well I mean the guy but the guy thought he knew you know that owned it and he at least it out and he was trying to send us pictures of deer that had been killed on it supposedly but he owned other properties and so like you really couldn't tell for sure was that one really killed there yeah they were nice here but I did enough talking um to some people and found out some info and to know that that General neck of the woods was good I knew the county was I knew the general area was but sometimes there's even specific Pockets yeah you've got the wrong block or the wrong neighbors man you're wasting your money yeah I think that's a huge piece I wanted to know was there Outfitters against me what was you know I wanted to know everything yeah and I just and that's like one thing that Mark always says about me Mark leibarger he's like the funny thing is he goes when Ben gets into a spot or whatever and because I'm a Timber buyer so this is part of my deal but like you open up my deer cast maps and you look at everything I have marked it'll blow your mind but March like Ben will know every road every landowner's name and who owns what piece of ground within about two weeks within five miles a year yeah yeah and like that's just how I roll and I dig and I dig and I dig until I find everything out I can and then we make a decision can you share some advice with us about like so if you've identified a piece of property like let's stick with the one in Illinois are you literally calling all of the the neighbors or I will I'll stop and talk to him I will yeah I mean I literally will dig every stone because I'm telling you like I know a guy literally here just in Ohio um he bought a piece of ground and I was like dang that seemed like a lot of money for that piece of land and but ground around here is just going crazy yeah it's stupid what it's bringing and so he asked me if I'd go walk it with him and I said yeah so I went and I met him and I walked it and he's like what's your honest opinion and I was like well I'll just be truthful from what I know about the neighbors and stuff like right here I'd never bought this piece and uh he hasn't owned it two months and he's already got it up for sale because he's already had the issues it's just those kinds of things you know and I'm talking spent a lot of money like almost a million bucks yeah well did you talked about it with me when we were off podcast but we mentioned oil and gasping you know such a any of these areas that it's hot pockets it's completely bound up right and we talked off podcasts about the timber aspect you know at one point you could buy a good farm and you know maybe it wasn't the best hunting but if it had superb Timber you got a great investment well even that seems like it you know at least in Ohio that's not very common anymore yeah it's not I mean it's the competition for timber in Ohio there's no place in the world that I've ever been that Timber prices bring what they bring in Northeast Ohio and starting to Branch even the prices now are even creeping down to where you just bought your farm well yeah because I mean when I think we talked yeah like two years ago you know you were like yeah that's decent Timber it's just far South right which it is yes seriously like if I would have known when you first talked to me about it and I don't know if like I was in a funk or if I was chasing the deer or what like probably it was November 7th it was November 7th 2021 when I was on that property so you were probably chasing a deer yeah that's probably the truth because like literally I was mind-blowning where are you yeah well we talked to Jed about it and I was like it was on I don't know off podcast or on podcast and I was like you asked me you said I think there's decent Timber can you call Jed and see if he wants yeah so I did and he's like yes where's it at and he's like yeah it's too far even afterwards I told him what Timber was on and he's like yeah I wouldn't have gotten that far yeah and he was like and I mean and honestly yeah the training and the labor costs kill us yeah oh I bet that Timber was sitting right up here in Coshocton or Muskingum County yeah it would bring another at least 25 yeah yeah but where is that it is what it is but it's still going to bring good money yeah wow yeah and I mean again I went into it and I'm looking at oh that's a good white oak that's this you know but they're they're 30 inch white oak on that place dude before I forget about it Ben can you talk to us a little bit about the the timber Market in Illinois you said they're they're only looking at White Oaks and maybe even just in general like the variants I think that were in you know unfamiliar with is like you know you mentioned there white oak and and um Walnut right well why like why wouldn't they have popular value or or Red Oaks that is the export Market there's not a lot of sawmills in Illinois gotcha so they're exporting yeah so these guys can use the wide open Walnut they can send them to export logs sell them in the year sell the saw logs off export them to or like different markets and it's a lot easier for them it's basically the cream of the crop um the woods gets high graded all your junks left and you know got it but that's what's happened a lot a lot of these properties are getting sold out there you know they do a so-called well we went in and we did a Timber management yeah so you mean cutting all the white oak and walnut was Timber management yeah that's exactly yeah but leaving this ugly Beach and these sycamores in this bottom and yeah you know this this Maple that's crowding out this nice group of young White Oaks that's not you know yeah so well no there's just no market for that well and I get it so I understand that but and the other thing that never happens out there is Timber's never bought on the stump wow say that again it's all on shares like you know the the landowner and the logger have to come to an agreement like well I'll do it for 40 60 or 50 50 or whatever and you know to we're here in Ohio that still does happen some but people know that selling your Timber on the stump and taking bids is that's how you get your most money what does that mean I'm not quite following the difference well you're paid before your Timber's cut here here yeah yeah and that's how Jed yeah Jeremy's doing his sale and that doesn't happen out there no out there they basically they shake hands sign a contractor well this is what will do it you know we'll do it for 50 50 or whatever then they pull the logs out or send them to the export and then when the checks come in they divvy them up so you don't know when those logs are pulled off you don't know what you're getting out there so is there no well I mean I'm not saying that like you know my buddy Bobby Kendall he's very fair with his landowners and does a great job with that but still when there's no upfront investment other than equipment in the chainsaw dude yeah like if I I wish I you know if I'd have known what I know now I would have moved to Illinois 20 years ago yeah from a Timber standpoint yeah I'd be a zillionaire is so is there no bidding process in that uh not really I mean it's just the Market's that different yeah that's crazy like it's just that different out there to where there's 30 Sawmills within an hour of me here in Ohio so that I was gonna say that's the big difference right is that the Sawmill for the timber here is insane yeah yeah yeah there's 12 15 bids almost on every piece of Timber anymore well Ben with with that in mind do you think that let's use Ohio do you think that timber in Ohio given you have the right person doing the the you know management of it is better managed than in Illinois because of the market availability yeah 130 I mean if it's you know if it's marked right yeah you know or depending on what the landowners goals there's still a lot of diameter cuts that go on um but sometimes that's what the landowner sometimes the woods needs that sometimes it doesn't it just depends but um you know like I'm doing a job for a family right now and it's a it's a 16 inch dbh cut but the woods hadn't been cut in years and a lot of the select cutting hadn't been done in the past and even if they'd have went in and just did certain trees you either had to cut it super select or cut it hard one of the two yeah and they needed the money to achieve some things so I said look if you really want your top dollar this is how you do it this is what you're going to get the most at doing and don't worry about cutting it again in 10 and 15 years just get your money now and then let it do its thing and when you're older you could probably have another cut yeah um to work sometimes like if you go in and you manage it correctly you can cut every five years if you want well I was gonna say we talked about that online right I mean if I wasn't cutting it necessarily for also deer hunting you said that mine would have been a good example to manage long term yeah I mean like our company would look into something like that our company tuska would look into something like that to invest in it as Timberland and we would go in and probably stay out of the 300 000 feet you're cutting we'd probably cut a hundred yeah and then but come back every five years for another cut maybe eight years or watch the market something pops up maybe we go and pluck a few more loads out just really capitalize on that market yeah so that's crazy Ben how would you approach that like if you and I don't know if it does but if you brought up bought a property in Illinois that had really good white oak and walnut uh how would you approach that well I mean it just depends on what your your end game result is like are you gonna just buy the property to resell it are you using the property yes let's unto it let's say it's similar to your goal so it's like hey we buy it with a three to five year plan we'd like to Timber it and resell it with uh you know with Recreation more of a turnkey you know I mean my Financial back in your pocket cut some of the White Oak some of the Walnut but don't cut it all to the point to where the next guy in line has nothing to work with I think that's a good point yeah leave some meat on the bone so there's some actual attractiveness for him that's to be like yeah okay I've got something here to work with myself even yeah um like we bought a 160. in Illinois and the guy um he had actually went in and he did do a harvest and he took Walnut and he took White Oak out but I was pretty dang impressed with how he did it and he was smart enough um the guy's name was Justin that owned it but he was smart enough to know that if he wiped it all out it was for one I think he cared enough about the land he didn't want to do that sure two I think he knew that if he left a little meat on the bone it would help him in the long run um too so I was really impressed that he actually did it that way um there's a ton of like 16 to 17 inch Walnut left on the place yeah he took some hammers out don't get me wrong right they left a ton of really nice young Walnut and stuff that we would have an opportunity to work with 10 15 years from now if we still own it I think that's an easy piece for the resale if that's in your mind like think of it as just put yourself in that position if you walk a place that's gutted right immediate even if it's been select cut or and it's thicker in areas for recreation and deer hunting if there is not a white oak left on that place or not a walnut left on the place or even in our area some Red Oaks like you're not gonna you're not gonna feel warm and fuzzy about the timber you're investing in on that property we just cut this cut this Woods to 12 inches but it was first deer yeah you know well that's how dude that's better money per acre yeah yeah that's that's because Jeremy and I have gone back and forth on her like I'm personally of the opinion that it's like you know you don't you don't really need Timber to kill giant deer on it right it's like it's not taken away from the recreational aspect in terms of the size of deer that you can grow on it it almost seems like it would cancel it out like you know one extreme argument would be well let's buy this piece let's freaking let's clear cut it it's not going to reduce it I just don't think there's many people that want to buy a clear-cut I mean if it's cut so hard and to the point where it takes the years to regenerate and it's so hard to hunt it when it's like that sure you know like it just depends on how the land lays but you know um well every property for instance Ben I mean you buy you know Ben Rising buys a piece of Timber ground and it's got whatever on it you clear-cut it you know you make your money back and you kill three booners off of it in three years you know you think somebody's gonna not pay what you're asking for it because it doesn't have that Timber yeah I mean that could happen but the only way you're gonna kill three booners off of it after you clear-cut it is if you literally have fields in the front where you can pull them forward or you live in a bait State because literally Farms can get too thick for big deer like literally get to the point to where the deer don't want to be in them okay so it's like a really fine line I truly believe that some of the best logged off pieces are pieces that have Diversified logging going on like you got sections of woods that have never been touched you've got sections of woods where there's been some select cutting maybe you've got some clear-cut Pockets over here but they've got diversity they don't just have 180 acre giant [ __ ] that they got to try to walk so talk to us more about that dude because that idea is almost so foreign to me coming from like because that's what I applied on in this place exclusively pasture ground where it's like we have no copper like all the woods has been overrun with cattle and stuff to where it's like it's hard for me to even imagine something that's too thick for a big buck well so like okay so down there in that country where your land is you you go in and you cut a Woods really heavy within five years you've got so much Greenbrier you can't even walk through it all the floors so so fast that the under brush comes in so thick that the deer like holy crap I can't even get around in here yeah Mall of Florida that's what we have and it is yeah you have some areas that are like Greenbrier Flora just all that junk the olive comes in you get everything the undesirable invasive species take over to a point where like holy smokes like even the deer those big bucks they just get uncomfortable yeah well and I think it depends on how big like I I think Ben you probably saw um the the timber sale report from Madison like we've got a four acre a two acre and a two acre that are like basically clear Cuts right on 130 Acres you know and then Select Cuts throughout I mean you know you're creating betting but you're also creating I mean you're setting yourself up for perfect pinch points and and downwind betting that to hunt and you know so you've got concentrations of that Thicket but you know ninety percent of the property is just still you know select cut timber yeah and again it really all comes down to landowner's goal you know like I mean I've had some families where you know like the landowner has held on to the timber forever you know like they've just didn't need the money but paid the taxes on the farm all these years guy knows that when he dies the first thing his kids are going to do is cut all the timber you know and get the money and whatever and I'm like sometimes they're better off to just cut the timber put the money in their own pocket disperse the money how they want and it saves a lot of family drama um or you get somebody to say air it's a piece of ground and maybe the woods is important to them but it's not like the ultimate thing they want to do other things with the ground and the timber can be a way for them to achieve their other goals um I don't think there's any like completely wrong way to do it when you own your own land like it's up to you yeah you know if the money can help you build a house or do this or whatever you want to do then okay yes if you want to manage it we can do that if you want to go in and um you know maximize on the financials well then you have to cut it harder you know it just depends on what the woods has to even offer some Woods don't have any good timber in it you know for every good piece of Timber I walk I probably walk 12 to 13 of them would suck and do you think it people just because there's big trees or what trees in general people just think it's good Timber when they call you well I don't know yeah you know a lot of people really just do not know and that's okay you know I mean that's my job is to walk what do you do yeah I mean transparently I didn't know like all I knew is like oh that's a white oak White Oaks are worth more than this piece of [ __ ] over here right I mean I didn't know the actual value in it it's just you know I knew what one what tree species were preferred at least from a Timber standpoint but I'm also thinking from a hunting standpoint too so well Ben what what do you do with like uh a shitty section of woods like if I've got you know 40 acres that's all just real squirrely looking Cherry you know what what can you do with that well I mean it's hard because like for one the Cherry Market's down right now um but like if you if you have an outlet for some of it some of it you can Harvest or you can just decide you know what we're gonna clean the slate in this section and start over but you're gonna need to kill the invasives at the same time you know so you does so when you do cut it really hard it just doesn't come back to complete junk yeah you know um so it just depends like there's different you know different Avenues you could take um again every property is different but and everybody's goals are different so it's like I that's the first thing I asked somebody when I'm when I'm walking in their Woods is like you know what is your real goals like are you wanting to manage this wood so you can cut again and your kids can cut or you just you and your wife want to get two cuttings out of it before you're done and you guys maximize your dollars or you know everything just it's their land it's up to them you know yeah well so I mean in that that scenario there let's say there is very little marketable Timber you know you'd say Well we'd like to I don't know if it's possible to grow Timber value in this piece of woods and in the meantime we'd like it to be good for hunting you know what does that look like because it's not necessarily a Timber Harvest you just have to pay a logger out of your pocket to come in and essentially clear-cut and treat all the invasives at the same time well I mean that's going to be a hard task to get accomplished because if there's no meat on the bone for most Sawmills or whatever like if they don't have anything to work with that's why you can't get rid of the low grade in like red oak and you know the good Red Oak and hard maple and stuff in Illinois hardly because there's no market right and then bloggers really can't make good money on it so they don't want a fool with it so maybe that'd be more like an equip type project like apply for government yeah something or something you just do on your own you know yeah herbicides prey whatever for like the the invasives but sometimes you just gotta let mother nature take its course too sometimes I feel like it's the effort isn't worth yeah I tell you what dude I spent like several years as a teenager trying to spray them all the floor out of stuff so we were getting ready to cut and like I swear it didn't do anything like yeah it killed it at the time but that's just as thick today dude it comes back so it's and it's just like tree of Heaven yeah that's it yeah can you burn it out I mean you'll top kill it but it's still I mean that root system is grow more yeah I mean it it's it's tough I mean and that's when you think about like um well think about even like a TSI project right like a lot of people talk about TSI and certain things I mean you've gotta you've got to do some significant cutting in an area to make a make a difference um you know going in there and dropping a few trees and open it up isn't gonna necessarily do it for for what you're trying to accomplish um and it's just like so like people that cut grapevines like oh I'd cut a bunch of grapevines in my woods today like you know help put choke in the trees cool did you spray it with tordon or yeah something to kill the vine after you cut it no I just cut them well that was worse you just actually made you worse yeah yeah and I think yeah Sprout 50 times more yeah yeah I think that the um well I mean it's like anything on the land side I mean there's certain things that are pretty laid out like cash rent and things like that but but Timber's super intimidating I think to people um you know and and again it's it for most of it it's just because number one there's a market right the market fluctuates you know number two is you just yeah you don't really know what you have especially if you're trying to like I didn't know what I had walking that property like if you told me you know there were that much good white oak on that of like I don't know there's a pocket here that I saw but it's because I probably wasn't cruising like a Timber Cruise was gonna do that's not hard to find out I mean typically there's you know no more than three to five like uh valuable Timber species like on a piece of property if you can identify them and then say it's uh whatever size of those is starting to get into money you can you can at least have an idea of if it's valuable or not a lot of it depends on the quality of it like if it's short and stubby and Lemmy or is it nice and Tall growed together clean you know not all crooked and you know things like that that all determines the factors of what something's worth yeah you know like the classic I've got a giant Walnut in my yard well it's probably full of nail 22 shells you know yeah no for sure no no no this thing's straight you know it's 100 feet tall yeah okay yeah you know it's just it depends but like you know um it just every there's so many factors in the timber thing and that's like like so me and Madison we've been talking some and I think I'm actually you know like I'm gonna open up the doors a little more on the Whitetail Edge side of the brand of things and utilize a guy like Madison to help other landowners yeah you know what I mean yeah because you know we can offer a service that needs to be taken you know I mean obviously with my own job of buying timber and supplying a sawmill you know I can do that too but then you have some landowners that selling the timber is just not their ultimate goal right it's more about things and so that's where like offering that service through Whitetail Edge and if you know if Madison's able to do it in the future then you know giving him some work like that can really help landowners yeah and so Ben's talking about Madison Frederick listen to this Madison's the the timber consultant that I used on my property and we're gonna have Madison on the podcast here after we get through the bid stuff and talk kind of a deeper breakdown on the on the Ohio property and stuff um but yeah I mean it it you know it what I liked about talking with Madison kind of out of the gate is you know he he immediately kind of and and I guess every landowner maybe isn't where I'm at but he immediately embraced what I was looking for out of that property which was it is an investment but now I I want to make cuts that are going to help from a deer angle right from a hunting angle and from a habitat angle but I also to your point Ben want whether it's me in five years or the next person in five years to walk that property and say oh there's a bunch of white oak here and here's some red oak here and like it it's not you know basically raped out of there to where you know they're walking through and it's just all trash yeah yeah so um you brought up and I watched this the other day you brought up Bobby Kendall I saw that you did uh a property breakdown maybe was it Illinois or maybe Missouri uh not to Illinois Illinois I think well we didn't know I didn't want to marry too he did okay so I think that's it so Bobby's group is what Whitetail group is that what it's called the white yeah and so you know I think I've seen more and more his listings one because of we've been looking out there you know I think he does a really cool um job based on what we're talking about here and like you know he's laying it out for a hunter like for deer hunting right as far as like here's the thing so Bobby's into the logging business yes he's cutting the walnut in the white oak too but Bobby's go a lot deeper in this in the scheme like a thought out process why you're doing certain things worries dropping certain tops you know to maneuver deer certain places where do you want the food plots like his his process is so much deeper than just your average guy with a log skidder and a chainsaw in the midwest that just want to go in and cut your White Oak in your Walnut yeah you know yeah and I think he approach is a whole lot different obviously and he's a lot more professional yeah how he does um and you know I've turned a lot of tried to turn a lot of landowners his direction that we're wanting to sell Timber you know telling them to meet with him first and and he has cut other species too I mean Bobby's done some jobs where they've cut other species not just high grade it yeah I I just because of the way that he's laid things out and and does uh I guess what I saw you in was like you guys did it like a YouTube video explaining the property and why things were laid out food structures you know where where things had been cut for Habitat or for bedding you know and I think that when you talk when you a lot of people are looking at TurnKey type things you know what what those guys are doing I mean they're giving you history they're giving you a plan there or or structure and strategy on that I also didn't feel like and I don't mean this in a disrespect any I don't feel like they were pricing it super high either like yeah no Bobby's very I don't know how you say it Bobby is very realistic yeah um the dude is not greedy whatsoever yeah like literally he just loves what he does so much it's such a passion for him that as long as he doesn't go broke I think he's happy yeah well literally I mean I've known deals that he's made 10 grand on or less I've known deals he's probably almost lost or broke even but it helped him achieve a goal on another Farm or this or that or LED to another lead the guy is just not greedy you know I'm not saying you're gonna go beat him down on his price yeah it makes no sense because that's not going to happen he knows his values you know um but he doesn't sit there and go okay I'm gonna go in and cut a hundred thousand dollars worth of Timber out of this Farm I bought it for this and then I'm gonna attack this much to it yeah 50 yeah that he doesn't he doesn't look at things that way he's like I'm gonna totally rake somebody over the coals to make a ton of money well I didn't even know he was cutting Timber I mean that makes a lot more sense why they are reasonable because if he can cut some Timber off of it he's making money there you know and so it produces his base right off the start and he doesn't always buy jobs that have Timber on him it just depends on you know um the the deal you know what he can turn it into he buys he'll buy Farms it'll be nothing but brush and good hunting but they'll have tillable and he'll keep he'll harvest the tillable off and keep it and then sell the hunting part of it yeah interesting yeah he's a young guy but that dude is a genius I mean he moved his whole life to go do that and started it out there didn't know nothing about Timber didn't you know he was a country music singer and then he became he's just he's very very interesting fella and he's a really good friend of mine and he's just a super cool guy and he's like I don't know you know how you meet some people you just know they have zero angles yeah like no Ill Bill no ill bones no angles like he wouldn't even think of doing some of the things that I've known that have been done to him yeah Realtors things like that and he just like he looks at me and he goes I just don't even know what they're thinking he's like yeah I buy a year why would they literally do that or go around me or screw me over for one deal yeah like I mean the dudes bought an astronomical amount of farms in his day interesting yeah I mean I I've followed them more and more in what they've done and I mean I guessed it was the it was the in a good way surprised that they weren't like insanely priced yeah yeah and and we we've been trying to find more ways to partner ourselves together mess the branch but it's a little bit tough but we're figuring it out we're you know we're trying to figure out how we can do it you know but uh Bobby's really one of my really good friends I mean like he's a guy that's he's come into my circle in the last two years and like he's just one of those guys that you keep close to your chest because he's just a good dude well I think even like hearing you on that video you were talking about some of the ways to hunt that place and break it down I mean for anybody looking to buy that property I mean where the hell are they gonna get that advice from you know so yeah you know anything we do like that I mean really we want people to benefit and that's like even with my show Whitetail Edge I mean dude I I think you guys have realized I don't hold the info in anymore I don't like charge for it I don't like I want people to be able to use what I've learned and it to benefit them yeah you know I'm not stingy about it um I've had a great run I've cut a lot of great deer so why not be a blessing to somebody else and help them be able to do the same thing yeah no I agree well uh speaking of that and obviously it's early being June but I mean any places you're feeling super optimistic about this year did you draw Kansas I did there you go last year so I did draw this year so I'm excited about that yeah uh you know I don't know what's going to happen in Ohio this year the deer that I had planned for this year um he ended up getting shot in November last year so My Neighbor passed him we had been passing him leaving him alone and he ended up getting killed by a neighbor um so on a corn pile on a corn pile with a crossbow yeah so um anyways all this time what's that such a tale as old as time yeah that's what happens in Ohio yeah so anyways and you know whatever and you know what and I and I look at it like this idea and the guy that killed it um he had had a horrible tree stand accident few years earlier guy was lucky to even be hunting yes and so you know what it is what it is yeah good for him um maybe he didn't shoot it with a crossbow I just said that I don't know it was probably a rifle but um you know I was happy for him in a sense I mean I was I was I was more disheartened at the deer we know the feeling yeah we get it because like literally it was the only deer I've had in the last 10 years that literally could have been a 200 this year and he was four and a half and so like he was gonna be unbelievable this year and we were super jacked about it I mean even my Amish neighbor Leroy passed him and not Leroy only owns 24 acres and out of the 24 probably 10 of it are huntable wow he passed him he even said to me he's like because he talked about it and the deer liked to bet a lot between you know deer bedded on me but he would frequent Leroy's you know corn and his um food plot and I said lero are you gonna pass that deer and we talked and he's like you know Ben he goes it's hard and I don't really want to it's hard but it's just hard he goes I'll never have a chance to really hunt a 200 inch deer probably on this amount of land he said and that deer will be 200 next year and he freaking passed it wow well dude talking about like the neighbor issues and comparing States like Ohio to Illinois is like that's one of the things that's so appealing about in both Germany and I have ground in Ohio where we're dealing with some of the same uh issues or circumstances it's like in Illinois and other non-bidding states it seems like the playing field is so leveled uh you know by the removal of baiting because you can have a Thousand Acre Farm in Ohio and like manage the crap out of it the timber you know your food plots you can put all this work into it and chances are like those deer that you're passing it four years old that are in the 160s will get killed on a 20 or smaller uh acre tracked over a corn pile with a rifle or a crossbow yeah 100 that's just what happens it's just that's why we started investing in different states yeah because we just don't I don't like I can't do it and yeah and uh I just felt like I was throwing my money away same with big leases anymore yeah I could care less about leasing a giant track of land because it does not matter in Ohio no not in Ohio yeah at least 20 acres that's right yep no I agree I think the right five acres I mean that's literally where most of them get it's between Jad and I and the guys that we know and Jeremy you'll experience it too we've got a lot of Acres tied up and yeah we do some uh baiting as well just to keep ourselves in the game but a majority of those deer that we have passed that get killed are on like are 20 or less acre sometimes five or less acres and I don't think you um yeah then it's just like the deer I was talking about I mean and again I'm not knocking that guy but they don't even own the land he just had permission to hunt it's a 30 acre piece that comes right into my grill and literally they plant their food plot and they're blind and they're bait right in the corner of my property yeah and literally finally the deer just he bred all the does on my side of the fence and he just ended up following another doe over to their to that to that corn pile and Bam and the food plot is all relevant at that point like it's great that they put the effort into doing that but it's like that's it's the corn pile that kills them yeah and mean you know and and again not knocking the guy but they were like didn't even know this year existed never do well and I mean I think to that point like you take away those corn piles and only have you know your your neighbor Leroy with a small food plot and that guy was a small food plot and then your managed piece that deer is going to spend the majority of his time on there he's not going to be tempted to leave out of that place or to go over and explore a 20-acre parcel um because you know not until dark right it's a it's a Level Playing Field at that point the the moment that those corn piles come into play and the only places I think that you see it not being as important I do think you're starting to see it in can in Kansas start to play an effect on killing a lot of these three-year-olds and things like that is like Kentucky that there's there's just not as many hunters in Kentucky I mean we looked at it the other day what did it say there was 50 52 or 62 000 bow hunters in Kentucky there's a 198 000 in Ohio right so it's like four times as many bow hunters in Ohio than there are Kentucky in their similar sized States like you just I don't you don't think so I don't think that and I don't know very much about Kentucky but I don't think the age structure is nearly as good as uh Illinois maybe Ohio because that's another reason I'm comparing to Ohio oh yeah I'd say they're relatively the same way way less habitat probably in Kentucky hmm than Ohio I don't know I just don't think that the I mean the corn piles definitely play a role in Kentucky don't I'm not saying that I just don't see as much of a negative effect in Kentucky as I do in Ohio yeah maybe because of parcel 100 numbers is certainly going to do it yeah so well you do a flyover in Ohio in the winter time with a drone or you even talk to a game when it's done a flyover in the wintertime and you just say well how many corn piles did you see and it's just funny the answer you get like uh you couldn't even begin to count yeah I find an area that wasn't corn pile yeah yeah well like don't get just all corn wow yeah well dude minerals the same way not not that it's like that's what's killing deer necessarily but it's funny when you go out and dump minerals like chances of you being within like 100 yards of somebody else's mineral or a Cattlemen or something it's just some sometimes they're freaking everywhere everywhere well yeah and but again like the mineral side of things I look a little bit different just because typically my dear after August they don't even care about it yeah yeah I agree I know and so like you could possibly kill one because of the mineral but fairies you know like a lot of those states have that thing where you can't hunt within so much of a mineral lick where it's an illegal baiting state but honestly I feel like the mineral plays Zero Effect on a deer come deer yeah I agree I mean I think to that point you know we would you use the example of your Illinois Farm Ben but I mean freaking Ohio like if I've got a chunk of land in Ohio per like Jared your farm you got a thousand acres in Ohio that you're managing you got crops on it you did TSI if I can find 10 acres next to your farm and drop a corn pile I'm gonna kill one of your big deer do you know do you know my neighbors you must know that's it I mean that's what it comes down to is like that that is a it you know and I I well dude I don't know Ben if you talk to Jed at all very much anymore but he uh he's got a piece of ground it's I don't know it's closer to Columbus or something like I I don't know how big his piece is like I don't know 80 or 100 and he's got these two you know I think three girls two really nice three-year-old sitting he's like those are the two I'd really like to see through they got shot in the same day on I think it was opening day of gun season on like a on a 10 acre track that April did over the same corn pile and he sends me a picture of like the truck bed with these two deer in it and he's like that's literally the status quo yeah yeah that's what happens dude all the time and I mean again you know some people listen and be like oh they're not your dear and you're just being a selfish prick and you know and I get it but dude it just stinks because like when you put so much effort into getting these deer to that age and you're going so much different than the other guys and then you know and they think it's funny because they killed they know you wanted that deer so bad and they killed it but like look dude it's not just about the killing or like I could have killed the deer two years in a row easy any day I wanted to yeah yeah but it wasn't about that it was about getting him to a certain point his full potential like what he truly deserved to be and then making him a movie star and giving the deer the credit that he truly deserves to be able to sort of survive where he did you know yeah and I think the thing is those people just don't care like they you know they'll go out on a Saturday and I'm not I don't say this disrespectfully they'll go out on a Saturday if they kill a three-year-old buck Saturday morning they'll be happy and they're watching football by noon and like have forgot about it good for them yeah I get it I get it but they don't but when they're the ones that are laughing or think it's funny that their corn pile took your deer that you were really trying to get when they think it's that funny though that's the part that bothers me wow dude that's a small minority I know what you're talking about there's that mentality but but most guys have no idea they're just like this is just how we do it you know we just I don't know that's where it's our spot hunting spot and like you said they didn't know about the juror in most cases and I think for the most part it's harmless but I think it's I think it's the fact that um there's just a small percentage of us that just really care about you know not not even just harvesting that animal to your point but just getting it to its full potential or you know the all the effort that goes into you know managing the habitat and then tracking the deer via cameras and just living it you know 365 days a year basically yeah and there's others yeah if Leroy would have killed that deer the Amish guy yeah dude I would have hugged him yeah I've been so happy for him like it literally I would have been like dude you deserved it yeah you were just as hard as as much part of this deer getting to this point right as I was right so good for you yeah you know yeah well dude I think half a guy go send you the picture and go never knew this dear wow dude I think because I can relate we just want people to appreciate the deer as much as we do they won't why else and they just don't people do that's like that's why most will not well any three of us are I mean if we were hunting the same deer you know I would be legitimately absolutely yeah because I know you know that you've thought up stay up at night thinking about it and you've put the same level I bet it's ten percent ten percent like let's just use Ohio ten percent ten percent of the hunters will care about what we're talking about as much as we do the other 90 just I'm gonna say it's less than uh no I don't think it is I think it's gotten more um I mean think about the number of serious Hunters out there in in Ohio it's probably 10 percent maybe 30 000. I think it's a lot give or take 30 to 40 000 people that have my same level uh I mean right up I'm gonna say one percent yeah I'm not saying I'm just saying like actually like they think about deer most of the year I think it's less than 10 percent Amy I don't know I would love for it to be more I would yeah I don't know in my area of what I have seen though um you know a lot of the Amish are buying ground around these parts now but I'll tell you it's not a bad thing anymore I mean it's it's drove the land prices up but a lot of these guys that are spending that kind of money they're really doing a good job of trying to manage deer and I have really high hopes that in the next few five you know next years we're going to start seeing a lot more bigger deer being produced again in my neck of the woods because these guys are buying a lot of the Farms that are coming up for sale now I think they're a lot more serious about it than you know even a lot of the English truthfully yeah if I got to give credit to anybody for that is Don Higgins yeah probably the Amish whisper yeah yeah I I would say that they're also probably keeping those bigger tracks intact right Ben I mean that you know Brian a lot of them are I mean it's or like they'll come up at auction and Parcels but then buy it as a whole at the end yeah yeah so I mean they're definitely driving prices up I mean because they're paying you know they're they're pulling money together from a community buying power yeah there you go that is the epitome of group buying power but you know to that point I mean how many like I was just looking I don't know I was in like tuscaroras or some one of the counties over there in Ohio they had an auction and it was like 80 acres which would be awesome but it was four different parcels and it's like you know there's a chance at 80 acres now becomes 420s and it's like what the hell but that's where land is going I mean these Parcels are just constantly getting broken up and broken up and broken up and broken up and eventually instead of the average guy owned an 88 years the average guy's gonna own 20 because that's what a parcel is [Music] so I don't know but anyways interesting well dude we appreciate you coming on this morning and and talking with us and where where are you right now what what part of the state you said you were out I'm in Ohio what part of the State Ohio just yep got some Timber to look at this afternoon I'm gonna get that handled maybe finish putting some uh beans in the ground later this evening well cool dude we'll let you go to work and I'll be looking forward to that bid later okay thanks guys later the hunter podcast is brought to you by Hoyt Archery dude where would we be without our Hoyt Buzz probably shooting crossbows or a Matthews here one in the same but in all seriousness we love being Hoyt guys because you stand out when you're in this room full of other people that shoot these other types of bows I feel like the Hoyt guys just stick out dude it's just a legit bow I mean especially that carbon Riser man I mean I know that they've got several other aluminum lines as well but for me I'm shooting that rx-5 in the carbon model they've since come out with the RX7 and uh I can't tell you how much I love being a white guy amongst a C4 of Matthews guys so we're out there I think proofing them wrong shooting 80 pounds and uh you know killing stuff hey man if you want to get serious get Hoyt [Music] sweet uh awesome they're very funny is uh because Madison said he was like yep yeah Ben's gonna put a bit in I was like good I hope it's a good one yeah well I'm sure it's an interesting I'm sure he wants to be on the property too yeah so um I know we've got several kind of podcasts lined up here but I would say in the next I don't know handful podcast we're gonna have um Madison on who's who's my Timber consultant and kind of really break down you know there's some things I know from the industry and and Ben's said the same thing like there's some inner stuff that like they don't they don't want to talk about too much or highlight too much because you know there's kind of an unspoken agreement internally that you don't want just everything aired out like you know Google anything and just try to find like how Timber bids and stuff like there's no information on it right it's like a secret sauce that's within the community of how these guys are valuing things that are out there yes there's a market for this but there's also margins and stuff that they have to make um yeah well it's not rocket science I mean it was interesting to hear that like in Illinois and sometimes this has mainly to do because of there's fewer Timber buyers sawmills you know because like in Ohio you know you're gonna work through a forestry consultant the consultant's gonna uh what it out to the buyer walk your woods and put it out to your loggers and those guys are gonna bid on it based off of yep work that they're doing in the area you know what they see as far as Timber values maybe they get like if they sell a certain quantity of what you know it's just right they're running their own business so here's what we want to Output from this and here's our cost yeah so like if if I was doing let's say they're so on my property transparently we did it it was like there's about 300 000 board feet to come off if it was 50 000 I'd get much less bids because of where I'm at in retrospect to the um yeah it's gonna be worth the squeeze the Mill Run yeah the Mills they're not going to come down there for two weeks it's it's not worth it but for 300 000 you know it's going to take them almost eight weeks to harvest the timber off of that place so I mean there's a lot more time they can dedicate thus juice is worth the squeeze a little bit more they're still going to have to you know truck that to the mill which is obviously cost coming out but yeah the the bid process is kind of crazy so today it's June 8th today at 4 P.M my bids close so everybody's putting in sealed bids right now and then um Madison's gonna call me this evening and we're gonna open those sealed beds and go through them and then that's where we'll pick one cool and then I'll do timber contract with whoever we decide to go with and they're not real complicated right it's not it's just basically a number it's a number they're also there's certain things that are uh that that'll get agreed to in the timber contract like um the Red Pine clearings and then a Perimeter Road is what I asked for as well for them to have a Perimeter Road in there just for Access purposes and stuff so um so yeah I and it's so funny because like I'm sure these guys talk like I'm sure Ben talks to some of these other buyers but I don't you know these bids seem like they can be pretty pretty wide ranges in terms of somebody May overbid it because they need the work you know right um so yeah it'll be interesting to see but we're gonna bring Madison on it's probably a little talk for them to talk I bet it is like price fixing yep saying hey let's not bid just like our real estate side right yeah I'd say hey don't take a commission more than five percent or whatever it is so um yeah so we're gonna do that today so I would assume because we're it's gonna take a little bit to get contract in place I would assume in the next handful podcast we'll have Madison on and we're really going to kind of dive into prying into what he saw versus property and and you know talk numbers like you know we're pretty transparent on here so we'll talk numbers okay it was interesting to hear Ben say uh to agree and so Ben's talking from more of a logger perspective so somebody like Madison would sell to somebody like them correct uh and so a private forestry consultant will take a commission of 10 yeah okay so 10 of is it whatever I get paid whatever you get paid yeah which sounds like and I had not heard that so Ben said it could be 40 60 it could be 50 50. uh he's saying that it that's how they sell it in Illinois so when they go to market it's a 40 60 or 50 50 split whatever the market brings then they split the check with the landowner in my case they buy it stumpage which is they're buying like I'll know when these bids come in what they're gonna pay for it what they sell it for I have no idea do you think it's still close like do you think so if it's 50 50 let's just say for round numbers you know your cut is a hundred thousand dollars so then they're gonna make a hundred grand yeah right I don't know or is that what you'd expect no I bet it's a lot more than that I would think so yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't know what I would assume just because of equipment and everything you know what they gross is gonna have to be probably more than 50 50 I would assume but I don't depend on their cost yeah and I mean you can look at some of the market like if you look and see you know um you know whatever it's uh five hundred dollars per thousand board feed on something right you know so then yeah so then if I have 300 000 board feet right so whatever 300 times 500 300 times 500 right is what 150 000. well yeah I guess I guess I don't know I mean let's say it is a hundred thousand let's say total numbers 200 000. I can't see it costing more than twenty or thirty thousand dollars for them to go in and take the timber off yeah probably not right so they profit still 70 or 80 grand yeah yeah that's probably right so I I bet it's still close I bet there's there's a rough so I would say like 300 000 is worth 150 to me then they have another 150 on top of that because it's about a dollar Timber you know you're basically just paying them to take it off and they need to make some money on it too that's their business yeah so yeah I mean you should get half or a majority of them yeah I don't know how total value but yeah then 10 of mine goes to the consultant um and then you know part of that is to do this bidding process the other part is they'll check in to make sure that the crew is doing what they're supposed to do yeah they run it essentially yeah that's that's huge yeah so yeah so that's happening today which is kind of exciting which I assume you still want like I mean I don't love the idea in Illinois going straight to the loggers because it's not that they would be uh uh uh not truthful but well that's why you don't and no offense to bend that's why I don't go straight necessarily to uh uh well a logger especially because you know if I go to them there is no bid process right there is no it's the same thing as in real estate it's the same reason I don't just go to my neighbor and say hey what we pay for because you don't know what unless you know the only way to realize the true market value of whether it's Timber or an actual piece of property is to put it on the open market and let people bid on it yeah so it'll be interesting I don't you know I don't know if we'll have five bids today I don't know if we'll have 10 bids today um yeah I don't know but we'll assume anybody that's in proximity of it will bid on it you know because well I mean Ben's not really even that in proximity and he's bidding on it right so even further than that so I'll respect a handful I mean he he said what 10 to 12 or something bids is what's common cool well there you go so yeah it'll be excited to start opening those up and see what see what it brings um nice perfect timing for because we're like we're looking right we've got a few we're looking got a few okay who knows dude I and I do think and I was kind of prying into to been there on like you know got to be careful like approaching neighbors like anytime somebody else realizes that you're interested in something like I don't know things have a way of changing like oh so-and-so is interested then they and so I mean I've been in it I offered my neighbors to buy on a land contract um which was turned down and it came up for sale shortly after not yet but but they've told me numbers that they want and it's it's drugs yeah it's three times what the Market's asking for you're like I can pay you a drug that's freaking crazy you know and and yeah some of its advantages and again this is the the weird thing we talked about this with Duncan is that property is worth more to me than it is anybody else right so I'll I'll pay over Market if I know that it's a long-term property for me if it's a flip property no I won't um but I'm not going to pay like absurdly over Market because then I'm I'm out like I'm in the red on that that makes no sense it defeats the purpose of of doing it right so yeah I mean it's um there are situations I think that that works well I think there's a lot of situations that the moment you show interest right then it's like well now we can really ask for money and I guess I don't quite know what the it's kind of a fine line of like so if you and I are looking in Illinois yeah best case scenario we go talk to all the neighbors and just get the scoop say hey do you guys hunt yeah you know what's the scenario here what do you know about it um but you know you run the risk of like of showing your car showing that you're interested and then all of a sudden somebody else is interested in whatever else yeah I think it's uh it did the market right now is is very tough um from a standpoint of thinking that you want to buy with a deal in mind and maybe that's paying full price but there's great Timber that hasn't been accounted for because that's I think that's what happened in my case deals in this case come from knowing where to look and and uh having knowledge that other people don't I think that's a big piece of and we'll we'll get into it in detail what Madison comes on but I paid fair market value for this Ohio property the timber wasn't realized though and I'm not saying that I I would have paid that same amount for a clear cut right but and there was some luck involved too right because like you saw like you said some White Oaks but you didn't necessarily realize I had no idea what the value was yeah that's why I wrote Ben and was like dude like you know are these like harvestable trees like I have no idea right I'm completely naive to that um so there was there was absolutes way more than a lot I mean I went into this thing transparently my goal was to get like 50 or 60 000 out of this select cut which would have paid almost my down payment back right per Madison and we'll see where the bids come in it may be three times that yeah I had no concept of that actually happening but neither did the person who sold me the property yeah so you know there's there's some interesting situations the the thing is and I now that I've kind of got a taste of that I'm like oh man I should really look for this they don't exist very often Ben said it right I mean he looks at a lot of Timber they don't exist very often right um you know just like if you would look into oil and gas you buy a piece of property there's oil gas two years later you get a phone call and they're gonna pay you 3 000 an acre for a one-time lease and then royalties like it just it doesn't happen very often anymore um so it's just you know that's where it's it's hard to go into these things there are deals that happen out there and if you can find one it may like this Ohio property May set me on a trajectory to where we buy in Illinois and maybe I buy another Farm like it it could be the luck driving force that that sets me on a course that I didn't expect I could be on yeah um sounds like Ben's in that case they bought that property two years later you know it adds two thousand dollars an acre he's got 300 Grand in equity on that thing like that boy that was that was the time to buy 2019. those are the trajectories that start to happen that it's like man I mean if you get into one of those it sets you on a whole new path to what you can buy or do in the future it's just few and far between yeah you know and so when a lot of us are staring at land and it's like man I don't know 5 000 an acre for this piece in Illinois well five years from now maybe it's seven an acre we don't know like we have no idea what that's going to end up in the people who bought in 2019 guaranteed didn't think that it was going to go up two thousand or three thousand dollars an acre by 2021. you know it was interest and I don't know if I uh I quite remember exactly what my thought process was here I was in the shower last night and I was is this before or after you lost the tooth you know what it was actually this morning I was this morning I was in shower I was just thinking it might have been yesterday I don't know a lot of thoughts when that cold water hits me off the mind starts going I was thinking about just the statement that like they're not making any more of it in terms of land and how it affects like the value um you know looking at that like or take taking that um just you know just straightforward considering that it's like yeah okay so it's only going to get more and more valuable um but they're only making more and more people too yeah right and so like it because look at even just the United States it's like yes at one time it was like oh there was this huge uh valuable asset like in the sense of like uh available land and like people have bought it up over time like it almost uh it almost begs the question like does it just like the public land thing like it's like yeah there's a lot of it but it gets caught up with you can have too much demand to where it's like it's there's you know all of it got bought literally like all of it gets bought and then it's like and then the value starts to diminish well I I think that's where there's a standpoint of um this is where this infliction point on Hunting comes in recreational land at least uh and even farming to a point like we talked about this these people that are buying twenty thousand dollar an acre Farm ground like we know the value of crops it's like how are they ever going to make money now a lot of it is they have land that's paid off so they're just leveraging it leveraging the equity and continuing to buy continue to buy but at some point that makes it unavailable for other people to start farming because you can't just come in and start buying twenty thousand dollar acre land and make money farming doesn't happen so in in your case the number of farmers are going to drop which in turn I think will stop land from a tillable standpoint being so valuable well so think about it from a deer hunting standpoint same thing so all of your 80 acres you know which is you know enough a lot enough average average parcel around 80 acres well and in terms of like you know to to be effective at managing a deer herd for instance like you know 80 acres about what you need yeah it's minimum minimum minimum you know and if all your 80s start turning into 20s yeah you know even though there's a demand for people buy all those 20s the the output like the value from a deer hunting standpoint attached to each of those pieces of property starts to to decrease because it can't produce yeah 20 acres doesn't do anything for you yeah I think in the same flip do the flip side of that right somebody starts to come in and buy all these 80s and and now they own 800 acres and these people are 900 Acres access is cut off I don't think it's happening that's happening way less than it did 10 15. you did but I'm saying that that cuts off access for a lot of people people stop pawning numbers drop I don't think demand is there for the recreational ground is more well yeah if there's nowhere to hunt then yeah so you got two different things is like you could go either direction I think we're trending in the way that you're talking where it's going to be multiple 20s that a 20 acre piece is like great you got space I ain't gonna do [ __ ] from a hunting management standpoint if you've got a corn pile on it you can kill deer yeah well and it may be both you know in some uh in some capacity like yes maybe private landowners buy more of those 20s or 80s and and protect themselves from outside hunting pressure about that just now with the on and the values are sustained if not in improved maybe at a public scale that's also like in terms of access to a greater portion of it you know I don't know if it's game commissions or whatever somehow the public is gaining access to more of the private line yeah Co-op deals and stuff you know just to preserve the the parcel size because because whether it's private or public the smaller the parcel size like the less value it can produce from a deer hunting standpoint that's reality yeah it's an interesting thing because I don't believe I mean there there are groups like us that we're like man if I could have 500 Acres right the average American doesn't want a lot of property because they don't want to manage it they don't have to do [ __ ] on it sure they want a house well they are already in theory every Deer Hunter runs as much property as they can and so take what we talked about with these fires like you know Ohio's 27 28 million Acres it's a lot of land inconceivable a lot of land inconceivable 28 million acres is a lot of land and so you know it's hard to believe that um there's not some sort of infliction point it's somewhere here along the lines to where the demand for driving price of land up hits a a peak until that land is taken away into with human population development right because that's the only thing it's like if you and I are buying land for deer hunting or Ben spine land for deer hunting and we're using it for deer hunting and then it goes back into the market for deer hunting that land is just always there right the they're not making any more of it doesn't really apply there but when they're taking it out of that habitat into development because they need it for increasing populations and urban sprawl and everything else now the the point of they're not making any more land is a valid argument I think I mean it's not just development it's profit you know whether so if I own 80 acres and I subdivide off 40 of it to sell 40 for development yeah it's getting less yeah but if I sell if I do SUB 540 Acres off of it and sell each two Hunters uh maybe the impact is not nearly as much but still yeah it still applies yeah it does it's just not as as Grand scale because it's still 80 acres I'm making more extreme maybe it's I turn my 80 into 20 20s yeah it's a weird thing when it when it comes around because I I do think that uh I think we're in a point of land stabilization in terms of price right now like there's certain areas prices are going up like for whatever reason in my area Kentucky prices are going up pretty quickly because they're going to build this Resort yeah down there generally speaking though definitely stagnated yeah it's Flatline at this point but I mean three years from now that we're not saying damn dude you mean you can't believe that we passed that at five grand an acre it's worth eight now I mean it's the same concept that we would have said pre-covered you know like oh I don't know about paying three now it's worth six and it's like you just you can't all you can project though is over the course of history with abs and flows and a lot of stabilization the trend line is going diagonally up for land prices and I don't see that ever stopping well that's where that's what my conversation is or like my question is like we've never had a completely full United States you know what I mean like so for the for all of history it was an undeveloped country yeah right it was like it's we've been just filling the space yeah and it's not like we're full I guess there's still several thousand acre strikes but at what point are you out of inventory thus out of yeah and I don't think it'll happen in our lives like no I don't either um but I I do think that it's it's uh it will always be in into Ben's point of being like kind of the land horror of the that land will always be increasing in value with some ebb and flow to it and so sure a hundred years from now when I'm off this Earth and and you know maybe my kids or my grandkids are probably around if they have that piece of property inevitably it'll be worth two three-fold of what I paid for it sure that's just that's how it's going to be generational yeah I agree and so I I think that's where um it's such a hard thing to Fathom that we're we're sitting here big you're in about a thousand dollars an acre either way where our grandkids or two generations from now are going to be sitting there with a 300 plus percent return if we bought it now whatever it's at yeah and it's interesting in terms of like you know just distribution of wealth like at that point like what what is it right now I mean that is what percentage of yeah it's such a hard thing to put a you know in the United States what percentage of people can afford to buy well but think about the number of people that want to buy it that I would say 90 plus percent of America doesn't want to buy land that's not even on their radar right they live in New York City and they're buying the apartment here at the studio here right I agree so when you talk about you know and in in the general history minus the one percenters right most people who own land were poor people we're farmers and stuff yeah poor dirt poor in fact most of their properties were taken away by the Banks and stuff because they leveraged it you know nine ways that they could the way to take two gen and it's hard to think this way but the way for your family to be two generations away in that wealthier class is by having something like land today two generations from now that land that you bought today will put them in a class way above where you're probably at right now um and that's how that kind of thing is if you look at a lot of the people who have inherited you know massive amounts of wealth it's in real estate usually it's it's not Bank cash money it's paper wealth you know equity on paper wealth essentially and so it's a weird thing to kind of put into that concept but but far out the majority of Americans aren't even thinking about buying land like they're thinking about buying the studio flat or the beach house or whatever right I agree um but I think that at some point when that Beast is is awakened a little bit more that's when lands of limiting resource is really going to kick in at some point when whoever it is you know one of the big investment funds or whatever says I should we should just be buying the [ __ ] out of like raw land for the way that this stuff isn't don't you think like the federal government would look at uh I don't know the appreciation of that at some point say like these guys are making way too much money we need a bigger cut of this I don't know if they would yeah I don't know I I think that's where it's gonna at some point somebody's gonna help and there are there are investment groups out there doing now in fact some of these Sports guys are getting into it but there there are going to be groups out there that say why don't we just take this one billion dollar fund and go and buy a ton of this land and if we sit on it for 10 years you know it's going to be worth whatever 20 percent more than what we have today well they are I mean yeah that happens it's not Bill Gates is like the one of the largest I mean some of the individual guys are but I think it's when it gets to like almost a Wall Street fund aspect of things that they realize you know that's where because like lands and you know it's an inflation stopper essentially too um so right now it's less less attractive to some people that because it's it's a long term it's tangible too you have to do you have to do so well but that 90 is they don't care like they're not gonna go use they don't want to operate right there's a small percentage of people that want to invest and use the land that they have and there's responsibilities I mean you gotta pay taxes on stuff like so there are things that are from that standpoint it's not nearly it's not going to be nearly as quickly growing of an investment as like the stock market has been historically no you know or you know energy businesses or you know whatever else but but yeah it's hard to deny when you're going to use the property too like you're in a situation like you and I are of like how do we investable long-term growth and that we can use right now and that we could leverage in the meantime it makes perfect sense for a percentage of and it's a much much smaller group right now and it may be for the foreseeable future um yeah that's why I invest in land yeah it's a great investment it's tangible I can go use it right now and enjoy it right now in my current life I can't do that with my stock market sure um you know and obviously not saying that stock market isn't good but yeah it's it's diversification of of that but it to me it's it's a asset that I can enjoy right now well dude truthfully like I have money in the stock market right now as do I um and when we when the time comes for us to buy these properties in Illinois I likely will take some money out of it knowing that or assuming that it won't make as much money as quickly yeah I mean I I'd contact attributions in one of my market funds that I took out and that was my down payment for my first property in Kentucky you know now I'm leveraging properties more than anything but um yeah I mean you got to start somewhere right the hardest part like we said it you know obviously responsibility for monthly mortgage is important for most people it's coming up with that 20 that's a substantial number yeah you know like even I know Ben stroked that check for you know he said his year on that property I mean I don't know what that is could have been 25 Grand could it be 50 Grand but when you have to put 100 Grand down on a property and then next month start making monthly payments on it too that's that's the ShakeOut that really yeah those are the two things that can set you to a cool down payment on your monthly payments once you get past that once you get a rhythm to know how to cash flow it it's not that hard to buy land in a Ford land it's that initial payment and then knowing you you've got to keep making monthlies on it as well as all of the rest of your life that that's the part that scares the [ __ ] out of most people yeah um that's where a lot a lot of people probably and it's not good right now because the interest rates but could be using home equity lines of credit and things like that because cash out of bank to do that is scary I've been there dude start a business that's that's probably that's the best advice you could probably ever give anybody it's risky not very many people succeed but I mean well sidekick it man I mean that's what I I think that's how I started all my businesses right I had a full-time job and then I side gig these businesses to the point where I could see and I mean dude a business that you yeah so still start a business it took it took years off of my life I mean the the amount of hours of you know normal day family back on from nine to three a.m up at six like I mean years off of my life yeah unfortunately it still is right you see this great it's not just yeah it's there it's pretty good uh but that said I got her teeth still yeah that's true uh it allows the freedom to do what I do invest how I invest use properties fund property cash flow properties with businesses I mean it it unlocks an entire but don't think that you it makes me really scared when I hear people say well I'm starting a business it's like cool what do you do right now well no no I'm just going to start this business like did you have to survive we talk about that in the real estate side like transparently it takes a while for you to make money in the real estate business we're still getting the buckets full yeah right if we didn't have cash flow coming in we'd be in trouble yeah and I think the main premise behind this my statement of like start a business is like uh you know the minute that you realize profits are better than salaries right it's like that's what allows the freedom not just from a cash flow standpoint but like to be able to take a loan against your own business to be able to have the freedom to yeah certainly all aspects of to be able to manipulate your own schedule and all that but you know don't just walk away from consistent income especially if you have responsibilities you know in the case of like a family or something but um even that if you are buying land if you just go if Jared Prussia just goes and buys land as Jared Prussia you don't get near the tax benefits as if Jared Prussia LLC went out and bought it right the depreciation the expense write-offs all of that and that's a different thing I mean yes you should you should buy properties under an LLC as well for different reasons but you got to run in as a business yeah I mean that that's what it comes down to is is you know second homes whatever you got to run it as a business because if you do it just you personally um you're at too much liability risk first off but other than that you just don't get the benefits tax wise that you're gonna get uh we're also going to talk uh I should have I don't I'll probably have it next week but Madison will talk about it he finished the tax basis Timber tax basis last night will apply a value so he calculated the board feet from a table we'll apply a value based on the bid we accept That's How we'll end up getting our our final tax basis but I mean keep in mind that the money that I'm receiving from this Timber cut is tax-free cool uh just because we're rambling here we need to have a we need to have a real estate attorney on at some point that would be awesome uh to talk about LLC structure yeah and like you know all these tax benefits you're talking about like especially if we can find one that is uh uh is knowledgeable on the the tax portion yes because I'm not yep that I think I I know a couple but uh I don't know maybe somebody will hear that some point us in the right direction uh is Seth a real estate attorney remember stuff we had on for I bought a farm I do he might be I'll reach out to him yeah so yeah other than that uh rain dances starting soon beans in the ground tomorrow oh God if we get rain if I mean you're listening this where our beans are in the ground and hopefully we've had rain otherwise we're just like curled up in a ball something should be good yeah it looks Summer's about to restart here it looks good in a good way so beans in the ground velvet growing hopefully a tooth a tooth would be um it would be great Timber starting to coming in and then uh we if you're listening to this it's late a couple more weeks we've got uh our uh national meeting for Whitetail properties in uh St Louis so we'll be out there and then Jared and I are gonna do some scouting out there too but uh we're talking Kansas we're talking Missouri we're talking missionary missionary yeah so it'll be good I'm excited to Italy's start to get out of this funk and and into uh you know velvet season and farms and haunting again yeah dude last remark to maybe uh anybody that was here for total archery challenge I was there very briefly I had that was this past Saturday Sunday yeah Sunday and uh we ran up at eight in the morning and uh it was like so but if you listen to the podcast you know margin I own a business and um I got a power loss notification uh at a a.m on Sunday yeah which is bad because you're pretty far at that point I mean hour hour 15 minutes oh really I thought it was first closer yeah unfortunately um and so a power losses is is bad news for us we start losing products yeah I had to we I I was like okay it seems like it's getting solved we had like the power company on the phone and stuff and like ultimately I had to run off the mountain like halfway through the course ran down off of Seven Springs got my truck and bolted to to that business and uh yeah that sucks we fortunate and I'm glad I went I don't think we could have resolved it without that but uh I I saw some people like galances as I was running out I was like I really wanted to stick around and chat with people but um I just I had to go so sorry sorry about that you also were on uh East Meets West podcast recently oh yeah I started listening the other day with Bo yeah um so if people haven't listened to that that's a that's probably a good one the rat stash yeah but it's got a great stash he does yeah he does just rocking it was he at uh toad Orchard challenge I'm sure he was uh I he told me he would be so yeah and I'm sure he was there and Belinda you didn't see Jake was there too again I just literally we were there early so people might not have been set up in their boots yet but I had when I ran out I just was I was to the truck yeah I had to go crazy how it goes next time next we'll get you next time so much is our life anymore of just like run and run the same breath of start a business you know expect expect yeah that expect the unexpected so anyways uh we appreciate Ben coming on this week for our podcast uh 132 and we'll see you next week later [Music] [Applause] [Music] in the center [Music] [Applause]

Channel: HUNTR

Views: 44,938

Keywords: whitetail edge, ben rising, whitetail edge ben rising, big bucks, mature bucks, giant bucks, giant deer, hunting podcast, land management, deer hunting, hunting tips, land management and conservation, deer hunting videos, hoyt bowhunting, joe rogan hunting podcast, wicked ridge outfitters, whitetail deer, public land hunting, bow hunting tips, whitetail deer hunting, midwest whitetail, midwest whitetail hunting, hunting channel, deer management, deer habitat management

Id: I2uUPKGggSE

Length: 136min 17sec (8177 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 20 2023