What Rory Did Next...

Royce Joe welcome thank you very much indeed for joining us today back from the campaign and back to the day job I'm back in my day job and I've just come from two days ago hosting a state banquet for the president of Iraq and then today I had a meeting with Gordon Brown meeting with the Israeli ambassador I saw the Prime Minister of San Vincente and I've been talking about particularly about a burglar and climate it's your dream job as you said you'll miss it when you I miss it terribly if Boris becomes Prime Minister and for weeks home I'll be out of the job so one of the real challenges for me at the moment is making sure that I think realistically about what I can really achieve in four weeks and I think those are a couple of things one of them is to really make sure that differed doubles its effort on climbers in the environment gets out of the idea that you can somehow do poverty and development without thinking about the environment and the second thing is to get more British experts on the ground so that we're not just a department that spends money but that we have the best health and education experts on the ground in Nigeria or Ethiopia where we are you're trying to entrench a whole sort of change of direction in a department in about a month absolutely you're quite a restless individual on you well I like getting things done I like changing things and then you know I'll use that word Restless because having watched your comet go across the night sky and the leadership contest one wonders we do you really hang around in this particular playground for a long time or will there be another new adventure in the Rory Stewart story so this has been something that people been saying for a very long time one of my colleagues when I came into politics ten years ago saw that I'd only stick around for a year or two actually what I've picked up particularly through the last few weeks is a a much more of a sense of driving vocation in politics I mean I really have got a whole new energy because as a constituency MP a lot of my life has been I in Westminster and Cumbria and the great advantage of running for leadership is you have the advantage to do two things one of them is to get to derry/londonderry all get to tower hamlets and the second thing is to really begin to talk about things outside my minister or field which I haven't been able to do three has talked about out Social Care which I am we don't talk about talk about tree-planting talk about restructuring government and actually that's what's fun about politics what's fun about politics is both seeing the variety of the united kingdom not simply shuttling between the latest trip to Westminster but secondly being able to really think about how to make this country a better place in 15 years time rather than being in your narrow departmental book but you could be looking at being a backbencher perhaps possibly who knows the future of the moment for a long time you'd really sit that out in do that I do it in a completely different way so if I was a backbencher in for five weeks time I would keep going with Rory walks so I would aim to be walking through every county in the United Kingdom and what I've learned through doing it is that I can stand somewhere in poplar and have a conversation with one person who might be talking about mental health treatment or it might be a nurse talking about training the NHS but then 650,000 people can then watch that or in some cases some my videos 1.4 2.2 million people so suddenly I'm realizing that listening and politics takes on a different power and the big change in my life is I've gone from thinking of what I had to bring to politics was my ability to think or talk and realized that what I really can bring is an ability to just stand still and listen that's the will across some people's mind that's a device as it were a trick that you stand there under like you're listening and maybe you aren't listening you're hearing things but you're not necessarily implementing them because how can you implement all the different things that are said to you by people it's a device to give a sense of connection but it's not actually a new politics is it I think it's there's something in what she's saying and I think it is too compliment but it is remarkable how much politics is missing a sense of individual connection to particular people in particular places so it's one thing to talk about policy on lifetime it's another thing to be as I was standing in poplar where somebody just been stabbed in a bled to death on the street it's one thing to talk about the North Irish but it's another thing to be in Derry Londonderry and see three sites have brought around you and see thee the Republican flag still up and see the loyalist flag still up and the piece walls dividing the communities and that there is something I think actually quite radical about listening something quite radical about saying that what's lacking in our democracy is the sense that politicians are actually open to the real problems in a real place that instead of thinking that politics is about think tanks and policy papers the politics is often about why is it that in Barking somebody can watch their neighbor have a necklace ripped off a neck why is it in Lewisham that there are seven people and two bedrooms and that really the responsibility of a politician isn't to necessarily come up with grand fancy views on VA t or employs national insurance although those are important a lot of our job is making sure that this street is safe and not filthy making sure that this community actually has an opportunity to fix its problems and there's a connection between the listening and the action because the type of action you need in politics is not just quick and efficient but it's very particular as so it's about moving from saying I'm on your side to sorting it out let's come back to some of that in a second but I wanted to take you to the new near future and the possibility of a Boris Johnson government how do you see it panning out we get to September October the negotiations presumably will presume for the purposes of this first sortie have not gone terribly well what do you think happens then Parliament somehow with you joining in the effort votes to stop No Deal yeah so that I think we know already how it pans out what Boris has said he'll do is that he'll go to the European Union and get another deal it's very clear the European Union it's not gonna grant any new deal he will then come back to Parliament and he will then attempt I believe what this is what he's promised to do to try to take us out with no deal by the 31st of October that will be his first challenge because he's built a coalition where he's told quite a lot of people are supporting him and he's going for the softness of soft brexit sand another a lot of people are supporting him that he's going to deliver the hardest of hard brexit so there will be that first issue for him on how he reconciles the expectations those people and indeed the expectations are public because if he were to win he would have won by telling some conservative party members what they want to hear which is that he can take them out of the European Union and it's not going to be damaging and we'll be fine and given that I believe that just I'm afraid isn't true he's also gonna have some pretty angry party members in a pretty angry public the next thing that will happen is that Parliament which is very much against snodeo will work with the speaker to prevent no deal so now some way somehow some way but it's not only gonna happen in Parliament it will happen out in the streets there will be a large public movement against no deal because the majority of the British public don't want video this is not a patriotic or democratic move there is no democratic legitimacy if an idiot then what so then I think he will find that he faces a very difficult choice either he tries to push ahead defying public opinion potentially defying Parliament potentially parading Parliament to try to drive a no deals in which case my belief is that he will face a very very prolonged period of economic uncertainty and people will be pretty cross because sheep farmers in my constituency will find they can't export their sheep cheese manufacturers will find cheese coming from Ireland at 2,000 pounds a tonne and they'll have to export 2,700 pounds the town will find not just the car industry but a lot of advanced manufacturing in anyone who deploy relies on just-in-time supply chains pretty unhappy and then prices will begin rising in shops if he puts up I don't know what he's going to do on tariffs but you would expect prices to rise incomes will come under pressure house on incomes kind of pressure inflation will go up there'll be more pressure on government budgets and it'll be more difficult to fund health and education or will have a ballooning debt so that's one type of problem the second type of issue that he might face is that he might if he decided not to do that try to go to a general election if he goes to a general election again unfortunately Nigel Faraj is not going to cooperate Nigel Faraj has made a very clear that he sees this as the great opportunity for the brexit party to supplant the conservative party and this is something he'll be encouraged and feeling because that's what similar movements in Italy will be telling him similar movements in the United States be telling him so that we will end up and going into a general election which I'm afraid in that situation the Conservatives would lose that first scenario that you painted a from your perspective reckless and damaging pursuit of No Deal you would presumably vote to bring down the government like that my objective throughout is to try to save the Conservative Party if I can because I'm also a conservative and I'm also very concerned about the damage to Jeremy Corbyn would do so what I would be doing is both outside Parliament and inside Parliament working to prevent that No Deal happening can I just explore the work that that phrase if I can is doing in this because it's by no means certain if we've got to a sort of scenario where there's a conservative Prime Minister in your perspective capable of doing reckless things damaging things is by no means certain that you can you can or many other people can save the Conservative Party or indeed from your perspective that it's worth saving in that scenario is it well it's a failed project we have to we're up against the other problem which is the issue of German kommen and what he sees what what he means so I would say that the speaker will work with us hard in October to make sure that we can use every legislative constitutions from at our disposal to make sure that the majority will of the British people in Parliament which is against the No Deal breaks not against Bergson but against the No Deal breaks it is exercised and that's where I'm gonna start this conservative party that you love and then if that's too strong a word you're nodding I'm just wondering whether it is the Conservative Party that's around us now you'll have seen opinion polls recently above conservative party members who say according to these polls that they're ready to sacrifice the universe Scotland they're ready to sacrifice Northern Ireland's place the United Kingdom they're ready to sacrifice the Conservative Party itself for brexit is that a Conservative Party you recognise it's not not my type of Conservative Party it's it's what I've been trying to argue against but we're talking about sixty percent in these polls and these polls have suggested in the past they've been quite accurate I very very strongly would disagree with that vision of the country or indeed the party and I would be fighting very strongly to say that the United Kingdom is everything for me I mean I'm a Scot I represented English constituency I literally have no country the United Kingdom breaks up I don't think anything for me is worth more than keeping the United Kingdom and I think that strand of English nationalism is something that I strongly strongly oppose I think for me the Conservative Party is above all the party of moderation of pragmatism of common sense it's the reason it's the most successful party almost in the world longest lived party in the world is because it's been pragmatic and non-ideological and that the great appeal of the concept of party if we can retain our common sense is partly at the moment that people don't want Jeremy Corbyn they don't want that time or not many people want that kind of vision of an ideological polarized politics in the future of the Conservative Party lies at the moment particularly in the centre ground so I would be arguing very strongly against that it's trend there comes a point when you realise your arguments are falling on stony ground doesn't there there always does yeah there always comes down you've got rule that out no no I can't can't rule anything out no good I still believe strongly on the basis of my association my constituents my voters and indeed the associations that I've talked to you in many other parts of the country that that strand of moderation pragmatism common sense it's still the dominant strand and that yes opinion polls are showing a lot of support for No Deal but it's because I think politicians have misled people they haven't let people really understand the fact that that really is a recipe for delay that people are supporting that because they think it's a quick way out it's not a quick way out and I think also people were never really given a chance to talk in details through the withdrawal agreements my farmers were never really explained what the tariff structures meant or the fact there'll be forty to sixty percent tariffs and agriculture products many of my farmers who were exporting 90% of their sheep to Europe simply don't understand what would happen in an earlier brexit there's a huge amount of information that needs to be conveyed and I'm I believe in politics because I believe not just in listening but in trying to convey information the people have become very entrenched you might say they have an information deficit but those very same people I imagine you find are very entrenched in their positions quite hard to turn around to get them to listen yes yeah it is difficult and I had a conversation with a friend of mine his farmer about exactly this and of course he kept saying well it'll be fine WTO he promised yeah a fine AB see find a problem I'm sure we'll be fine we were fine I mean the one of the lines one of my colleagues uses she said to me well we survived the Black Death no I mean yes I'm some of us survived the Black Death but but uhm but that isn't really a good argument for doing something I mean I think the the point is that it will be risky it will be damaging and it's unnecessary there are many better and more thoughtful ways of leaving the European Union and in fact a quicker ways some people watched your candidacy there were any number of reactions a natural Matt Hancock will ever quickly forgive you for stealing his thunder as the young pretender has he figured me by the way I'm sure he has he's a very very cheery chap as you know he's now a prominent supporter of Boris Johnson yes we'll come back to that maybe if we've got to but some people watched you and thought you were auditioning perhaps for a new role in this in a centre centrist for formation in politics that isn't quite there yet that may be there one day when the ice shelves crack in the two main parties gobble that up venue you tell will anything out but I'm a conservative I became a conservative on the ground in Iraq during the Iraq war and I'm a conservative because I believe if I can be in a little bit theoretical from him because I believe in limited government and in individual rights and respect for tradition and love my country and prudence at home and restraint aboard I mean these are principles which make me a conservative they are the ones I could hear a Lib Dem reciting you know contest possibly Paddy Ashdown but then he would also set other things that I don't agree with them and he would have he was a great friend of mine and he was but he was always trying to bang on about things I don't agree with like proportional representation he was extremely interested in their attitudes towards Local Government Reform that I didn't believe in I mean there's this yes of course it's true that there are people on the right wing of the Lib Dems who begin to touch people who are in the centigram of the Conservative Party that's true he probably had more in common with the late Paddy Ashdown than you do with Boris Johnson don't you yes I mean we certainly had a similar early life in Italy politically well we have very similar life experiences but in the end Patti and I couldn't agree actually on fundamental constitutional issues you know where I'm going because so many people are scratching their heads and wondering as they watched you the darling of certain center-left commentators during that leadership contest what are you doing what about what I was doing is proving that these the people that were enthusiastic were enthusiastic in the end about joining the Conservative Party I mean what was extraordinary about it is that although people tease me for turning up on the south bank or speaker's corner and getting ultimately five six hundred people coming those were people yes they were younger people yes there were people who were not Conservative Party members but they were all turning up to say that they would vote for the Conservative Party if I was leader and they represent what is potentially six seven eight million people out there in the country desperate for an alternative to Jeremy Corbyn alternatives Nigel Faraj and what's been so moving for me is that that makes sense all the way to Labour councillors who coming up to me saying they would vote conservative it's a big thing for a Labour councillor to say and I never concealed the fact I'm a conservative and had in all these features I'm saying to them join the conservative party you know work saves the Conservative Party and the fact that they're willing to come on board with that I think is a response to my colleagues who think that if you are appealing I mean if you look at the polls the thing I was criticized for is that my support was 18 to 45 year olds London Scotland I'm currently at the moment according to you guv something like the second most popular politician in Scotland now these are not things to be ashamed of they're things to celebrate their things the Conservative Party if it's to live and flourish and we need 1845 elevators we need London we need Scotland if we say goodbye to those things we were saying goodbye to the future and as you know as well there was another criticism made during this campaign which was the an awful lot of these people who were wowed by you on the center in the center of politics center-left didn't read up on your record of supporting austerity measures for instance supporting benefits cuts supporting the whole George Osborne cuts programme which you did support and presumably still support to this day yes yes and I've been quite open about the fact that I'm a conservative I'm not trying to pretend to people that I'm Jeremy Corbyn and those people you were trying to listen to in the street an awful lot of them would feel that some of their problems the neighborhood issues that were around their greatest pain and gripes were to do with those austerity measures whether it was benefit cuts or they would in ability to get an operation or something wrong with the school because of cuts that all whether that agenda they would argue that's what the problem was some of them would go but many of them also are mistrustful of Jeremy Corbyn they're mistrustful of his finances of his economic policy of his they're not certain that he's competent or pragmatics so I think many those people be torn on the one hand they would say okay these people cut 231st on the other hand they probably are reassured that I'm not making spinnaker and I can't fund a not promising tax cuts that we can't afford I mean one of the interesting things is that my message as consistent in the campaign which was of economic conservatism in other words and yes it's true that I wasn't promising tax cuts but equally I wasn't trying to promise you two spending pledges and was surprisingly popular even with younger people who are looking to some extent for reassurance a sense that this is a serious country that we have a serious government and that yes also we care but but but but this is one of the keys what this campaign brought home to me is a very strong intuition I have that the people that we've rarely let are probably the bottom of the poorest tenth of our society who have been ignored I feel to some extent by all political parties because unfortunately I don't vote prisoners who aren't allowed to fight but many of the other people that I saw I mean the sort of people who are actually getting stabbed in popular or my prisoners that I was dealing with my prisoner semester where 40% of them been in care 60% of them have mental health issues 50% of them have reading ages that are 11 that's where the real scandal shame in our societies the poor elderly but oddly because there's people don't vote all the other political parties are conspiring to make out that the majority of us are in this sort of terrible state of suffering which I'm worried actually detract this attention of the people who are really feeling the brunt this so if I were lucky enough to compromise that that's I'm afraid really where my priorities that's why my sense of moral obligation and energy is is addressing addressing those people those communities the picture you painted potential Boris Johnson's administration makes me think you think the next leadership contest wouldn't be that far off I mean you you it would be chaotic and disastrous as you paint it so I mean you just said if I were to become Prime Minister another contest in your eyes in your mind ISM potentially that far off we don't know I mean we would hope for the next prime minister would come and have a stable government and stay you said you're supporting Jeremy hum how excited are you about the possibility of a Jeremy Hunt Premiership and the immense Syria short immensely reassured just because it's a lot better than the alternative I think that he's that serious comfortable I mean he sits with me on National Security Council he sits me in cabinet he wante me negotiate the backstop he take us out with no deal if that didn't work that sounds familiar that's someone else's plan as well and so all of that obviously I was supposed to or that I criticized him for leadership debate so I can't pretend that I agree with Jeremy Hunt I've said like he's simple strategy take a backseat is wrongheaded I will sleep much more easily in my bed with Jeremy Hunt as Prime Minister it's too evil he did more than that and I you know this is a very sensitive campaign and I don't want to speak for him but he has also made it very clear that he thinks No Deal is a very very damaging event and that he will do in an enormous match try to avoid it and he spoke about businesses and the impact on them he's spoken the debate against Boris Johnson sheep farmers he hasn't set this arbitrary deadline in the way that that Boris has and I think that even that little exchange in my catastrophic BBC debate where he said to Boris if you were on the verge of a deal by the 31st of October what would you say to the sheep farm that you've got to take up reveals that actually there is a real difference between these two and their attitude towards lady I'm presumably if Jeremy Hunt was in a certain place in the political spectrum he'd be putting you out as a spokesperson for the campaign but he's not is he no no I mean I I mean I I am very I have a lot of avarice for I really like him and I've made a very clear that I support him but we disagree and I imagine he is quite understandably doesn't want somebody out who disagrees with him on the biggest issue of our day which is that I have said that I rule out an ideal brexit he says that he would keep it in and he doesn't want to muddy that water understand and it'd be realistic and he's not he's got a lot of ground to make up it's not gonna happen is it well I don't know because a lot of my constituents including them association I think will think quite seriously about this I mean that the question is who do you want to epitomize your country the leader of your country you don't just select on the basis of the promises they make an election campaign you select them on the basis of how other countries will view how posterity will view you know what is their dignity what is their seriousness is their decision-making capacity you feel proud of this person is this person prime ministerial and I think if you ask that question there's a lot of the associations will they they probably will feel Jeremy Hunt is more prime minister can I ask you if you just final quick questions if you if you hadn't been a spy would you ever tell anyone no so the denials we shouldn't rest too much authority on I mean there's a more serious point here which is that the reason why the identity of intelligence officers has you know is sensitive and why I'm a bit cross versus you is that the Daily Telegraph story has now started an entire social media rumor which then effects staff working for charities that I've worked with in Afghanistan who are now being accused of being connected with intelligence operations which is very dangerous is literally people turning up with suicide bombs on their door so when I say I'm not an intelligence officer I mean I'm not an intelligence officer and I also was trying to say in the data track I'm goodness sake this is an incredibly irresponsible and dangerous accusation I mean it was irrelevant in the election campaign nobody gives monkeys here in Britain but there are countries in the world where people I've worked with are then put in enormous amounts of unnecessary danger and i-i-i was astonished I mean there's actually active D notices out which asked standing government instructions to prevent newspapers revealing that sort of stuff for it's absolutely all that kind of stuff and I couldn't believe they did that any idea where it might have come from who might have I think my guess is that one of the other campaigns thought it was a way of undermining which we take a stab at which one I don't I don't think each one of them totally unrelated question do you think you'll never trust a word Boris Johnson says I it's a difficult one I mean I I've pretty crossed with him at the moment because I didn't make much sense the brexit strategy I didn't understand he's doing I don't know why he hasn't allowed himself to be questioned more closely on it but I don't actually know him that well I mean I worked on the Foreign Office we would have meetings a couple of times a week to talk through policy issues I wouldn't claim to be one of these people who says you know I've known this guy for 30 years so I'm not and I also sort of have a little reluctant to try to look into my colleagues Souls which I've show characters I want to try to judge him on how good they are at their job I'm trying to say that the the fundamental problem with him I mean I've been extremely critical and I'm being criticized by colleagues for being very critical and indeed actually one of the reasons why perform Savannah in the BBC debate is that everybody had told me off so much in critical that I probably pulled my punches but the fundamental problem is that I feel that he is promising to completely incompatible things to two different sets of people who are going to be extremely disappointed and I don't think it's good enough that he doesn't or he implied that he somehow thinks that you can get a transition period without a withdrawal agreement or that he thinks that the Brady amendment in the Malthouse compromised the same thing or that somehow he is going to go zero tariff on agriculture with Europe which he told me in the BBC debate without somehow understanding that means Brazilian and Argentinian beef under WTO rules come in zero tariffs - and that's wiping out of farming industry so I just don't get it what I want from him is not an window and his soul I want a sense that he is read the word Jorund or is do it thank you very much in the Australian times talk thank you you

Channel: Channel 4 News

Views: 103,240

Rating: 4.4528437 out of 5

Keywords: Channel 4 News, Channel 4 news, brexit, brexit news, brexit explained, uk brexit, brexit live, brexit 2019, brexit latest, eu brexit, brexit uk, brexit latest news, brexit today, brexit news uk, uk news, latest brexit news, theresa may, may brexit, brexit may, rory stewart, tory leadership, conservative leadership race, jeremy hunt, boris johnson, rory stewart interview, rory stewart interview 2019, rory stewart afghanistan, rory stewart brexit

Id: I6Yl5KeLkaE

Length: 31min 24sec (1884 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 28 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/Le_Happy_Brexiteer]

He's just too weird/eccentric to have mass appeal

[u/ukpolbot]

Channel 4 News

What Rory Did Next...
For this week's podcast episode, Gary Gibbon talks to Rory Stewart, Secretary of State for International Development , on his dynamic Tory leadership...
🕘 0:31:25
📅 2019-06-28
👍 689 👎 121
UKPolitics YouTube content bot™ 🚨

[u/squeezycakes18]

very intelligent guy