What is Truth? w/ Fr. Gregory Pine, O.P. & Prof. Paul Gondreau

[Music] hello my name is Father Gregory Pine and I'm a Dominican father of the province of Saint Joseph assigned at present at the University of Freeburg where I am working on my doctorate but you have probably at this point come to become accustomed to these off-campus conversations so bi-weekly installments where we're following up with a particular Professor who's given a lecture for The temistic Institute so that way we can kind of suss out some of the insights so follow up on the principles maybe work through some of the arguments and then see what's entailed by what it is that they proposed so we found that it's a good way to kind of go deeper from the ordinary setting of domestic Institute lectures so that you The Listener might profit all the more from the wisdom of those who will Speak Here There and Everywhere So today we're joined by Professor Paul gondrel coming to us from Providence College in Rhode Island so thanks so much for joining professor gandro great to be with you father Gregory hey cheers um so so many of our listeners will have listened to your lecture which will have aired I'm using a lot of the the future perfect tense which I didn't know existed in English until I studied other languages but that's what happens when you time travel with you know like podcast recording so alas many of our listeners will have listened to your lecture from yesterday but for those of them who have not would you just say a word about yourself uh and then you know like who you are where you're coming from the type of things that you're working on sure thing my name is Paul gandaro professor of theology at Providence College I've been teaching here in Rhode Island for 25 years now since graduate school which is the same graduate program or you are currently father Gregory I got my doctorate at University of Freeburg incidentally uh you know I never understood the subjunctive tense in English until I had to learn in French I understand how that how that goes but but I did my doctorate under uh the great Toma scholar father Jean-Pierre Terrell well there I did it on christology on aquinas's uh human Theology of the humanity of Christ more specifically on Christ's human Passions and since then I have been continuing that work I have broadened it along more General anthropological lines so I've published quite a number of essays touching on the the moral meaning and purpose of human sexuality more life in general how that bears on Christ and his Humanity on Christ the man the male Christ that's when I'm currently uh projects I'm working on currently So and I've been involved with the domestic Institute for a few years now and I have very much enjoyed it I really uh very much value the the kind of students who show up for these lectures they're just eager to learn I do teach an introduction to Aquinas course here at Providence College and I always like to uh tell them you know that I I encounter these students at these secular schools that would die you know for the opportunity they have which is that you they get to study Thomas Kiwanis a couple days a week for a whole semester are you kidding me you know I'm just saying that that uh a lot of people out there would love to trade places with you hey well that warms the cockles of my heart because sometimes I'm not entirely sure what's going on I'm just reading Saint Thomas Aquinas I'm wholly convinced but I don't know if it corresponds to the deepest desires of other people's hearts and then I say something and people like holy smokes that's awesome I'm like cool so I'm not crazy so I'm glad to have this evidence corroborated yet further um all right so in your lecture you talked about specifically the topic of truth and the way that you ran the argument was a kind of apologetic for the Divine institution and like the Divine efficacy of the church you know so you ran it through Christ the church the sacraments and then the way in which we receive that in the Here and Now so maybe one of the things that was fascinating to me was that you kind of just started into the argument and why is this fascinating to me because I think a lot of people clear their throats um which sometimes there's need for throat clearing but sometimes throat clearing becomes its own science this is not to make light of epistemology or criteriaology as a discipline but a lot of people want to start first with like well if we're going to make claims about knowing we have to show first that we can know or that we can know that we can know but I just I was struck by the fact that you didn't start with a lot of that um so maybe like uh from whence comes your confidence that we can know the truth or maybe what are some ways in which you might argue dialectically that we have this capacity or that we're made for it well you know I'm convinced that that God has wired us for this that that um you know we're endowed with we're down with a rational soul with a mind that is ordered ultimately to truth and we hunger for that we year for that as Aristotle says uh that the the the nature of the mind is to know we have this DB yearning to know and um uh and and what's the object of knowledge but but truth and so deep down you know we live in a world that uh you know that wants to poo poo Truth uh if not outright deny it's no ability or its existence uh at all um you know and um so you know that that nonetheless despite that I think it's what people want it's it's what it's what people are yearning for and you know you dance around and you're kind of pussyfoot or you know you if you if you make too many overtures now I you know I believe firmly in engaging with the culture and dialoguing with the culture I mean you got to meet people where they're at uh at the same time uh you know the more one nods to that and uh pays deference to it uh you know you risk doing a disservice to the truth I think and to what people really are yearning for and I mean heck I got I got a little bit amount of time the way it is so you know let's just get right to it let's just Dive Right In but but you know I mean that's how God is with us uh he you know he doesn't he doesn't pull a fast one over us he doesn't try to Club us over the head and I think it's preeminent spokesman theologically since Thomas Aquinas does exactly the same thing and um you know but lays it out there lets his lets his reader decide me this is this is pretty evident when you read like Thomas Aquinas and actually a little little story to tell in this regard I do teach an introduction to uh Aquinas theology course at the undergraduate level here at Providence College and by the end of the semester I just kind of asked the students I will ask them how many of you as a person does St Thomas just strike you as someone you like and nearly all them raise their hand I asked them to be honest then I'll say how many of you really like Aquinas maybe one or two hands at most then I'll ask how many of you don't like Aquinas uh no hands one two hands at most and I'll say you know I I'll wager that a good reason for that is that you what you've witnessed in Aquinas is someone who respects you who respects your mind he's making rational arguments he's making moral arguments he's appealing to your mind into your heart he's not trying to pull a fast one over you I and he respects you he lets you make up your own mind he he makes it clear uh what he thinks that the truth of the matter is while at the same time giving adequate voice to you know the opposite side Aquinas of course is famous for giving giving the best voice to the to the opposing side so you know that that's how I like to approach these matters as well uh that where God offers us himself and he is truth and so in terms of intellectual inquiry and study uh he offers us the truth it's up to us to respond and we're wired for it we yearn for it we want it of course we can reject it some do reject it but but you know more often than not uh people will uh if they don't respond at the outset at least you know there's something I think deep inside that that is that is has turned on and uh and and you know you kind of the attitudes start to change perhaps uh if you know if if they haven't already come uh with with a desire to know I mean these domestic Institute lectures usually you do have an eager or eager audience for them so they're they're they're um they're well disposed um you know they're they're um they're they're uh you know they're they're receptive they're they're openly receptive to to what you have to present to them that does make a difference as well um not always the case with my undergraduate students for instance uh but you know it's again you know you're always uh you're you're uh structuring lectures and talks and view of your audience and you want to um at least keep that in mind and speak to them so I am reminded of a line I'm going to butcher it but that's never stopped me before but it's from uh GK chesterton's the dumb Ox where he acknowledges this kind of like epistemological or criterological Gap and he says of Saint Thomas you know in his work of soccer doctrina that St Thomas acknowledged the Gap built a bridge over it and then began promptly exploring what lay on the other side because it was infinitely more real hahaha she's just like wow Savage look at this guy go um but I but I can understand what you mean sense that we often find ourselves in settings or context where it's like the conversation has to be subtle and nuanced in order to get off the ground or we're constantly being contradicted or called into question it's like dude sometimes I just want to have a conversation where we can just deliver the goods you know yeah and I think there's something refreshing to that albeit you know maybe with some rough edges but that's okay insofar as we don't let the fear of sending something slightly wrong keep us from saying something very much true so Saint Thomas is it just happens yeah well I could say many things there but I won't because I'm going to ask you a further question um so you made mention of the fact in the lecture and then just in this last response how folks in the 21st century sometimes prove themselves allergic to truth claims um I'm not sure if this is worse than before or better than before or for it you know if it differs than other ages of humanity uh I have a friend who often quotes Michelle Foucault in this regard he says there are no good times or bad times there are just perilous times so it being the case that this time is a perilous time do you think there are particular reasons for which the 21st century or those who live in the 21st century show themselves or prove themselves allergic to truth claims other ways that we can make sense of this which will help us better to address it yeah well you know it's it's it's it's a good question and the answer of course is a complicated one because so much of uh of current culture it it um it draws from the well uh of modern philosophy and uh modern philosophy I think has um uh it's probably the large role in this General skeptical attitude that a lot of people have towards the search for truth or even the nobility of Truth um but it's it's uh you know the post-modern world in which we live is especially you know akin to that I mentioned in the lecture for instance when it comes to religion you know we're all familiar with these coexist bumper stickers and while that's in reference to religion I think that is symbolic of the of the attitude of culture to you know alter it across the board that that uh let's just um let's be tolerant of each other uh and and appreciate the fact that there are different views uh no one is necessarily uh more right than another uh you know you you um uh you're entitled to your opinions if you want I mean at the same time it's a schizophrenic World in which we live at the same time uh there's an ideology which is being crammed on our throats uh which um you know it's prevalent in Academia in the United States for instance uh and you know if you don't if you don't go according to that Orthodoxy and and sign on to it then you risk you know possibly your risk your career uh certainly uh will fall out uh yeah and not be held in high esteem or in favor with um with any academic authorities of repute you know but I I think deep down um I think it's expressive of of a deep spiritual crisis which is you know a reluctance to surrender ourselves to something higher than ourselves namely God and and the truth the God is truth and the truth sets us free and um you know that today's secular world and and becoming ever more secular there is you use the word allergic that's that's that's that's the word here this allergic reaction against surrendering myself surrendering my heart especially when it comes to God we know that it's not just a surrender of one's mind it's also a surrender of one's heart because in doing that it's as if one is is giving up one's own autonomy and and what is greater in today's culture than one's autonomy uh where where personal autonomy is is held up in highest esteem well then any other any other authority is going to be a rival to that is is going to be looked upon suspiciously if not inimically whether it's God whether it's the church whether it's the order of nature I mean this is this is the big problem that we uh encounter in Morality you know speaking of of uh of of of a rule of morality grounded in for instance human nature I'm I'm referencing natural law with God the author of our nature standing behind it this becomes you know very difficult but um yeah so I I think uh as much as it's an intellectual crisis it's it's um it stems from and flows from a deeper spiritual crisis which is uh this you know um keeping God at Arms arm's length uh and and whole you know because I don't it's this illusion that I'm gonna lose myself I'm gonna lose my you know I'm gonna lose my identity I'm gonna lose my autonomy the truth of course is just the opposite uh those of us that have given our lives over to Christ I know that that uh only in in surrendering ourselves completely to God do we find ourselves only in only in uh in and admitting that there is a truth and pursuing it are we do we find Freedom are we set free and do we find that our our deepest yearnings satisfied yeah now the point about freedom is a one that's near and dear to the Freeburg School if one can speak of a Freeburg School of Theology but certainly if other surveys Penn carers who would have still been alive when you were here um who passed right about when I entered the order spoke often of freedom is a kind of adherence to the good right because you are not free insofar as you have the option to do fill things or things which ultimately undermine your Humanity you're free to the degree or to the extent that you're bound up so intimately with the good that you become the type of person who cannot do otherwise not because you lack creativity but because why would you deflect yourself from the course of the good if you were so holy and entirely convinced that you're flourishingly therein and so yeah I think that when it comes to the truth to describe the truth as the good of the intellect I think help brings that into Focus this idea that um yeah our minds will only ever be reconciled to reality in so far as they correspond to it right so there's no there's no truth to be had in ideology there's no truth to be had in like strange fantasy it's only in reconciling ourselves to the fact of what we are it's like okay if I am you know filling the appropriate negative adjective well it's good to know that about myself because then maybe I can work on it or maybe I can accept it or maybe I can seek healthy correction on it but if I go about denying it then well yeah we're in a fix right because there's no point of departure um I'm thinking about okay so I'm thinking about this describing here you know an openness which you um kind of put in these terms of holding God off at arm's length like an unwillingness to be open to that and this brings in the conversation about Revelation okay so there are things that we can know about the inquiry of reason and are things that we cannot know by the inquiry of reason and we need to be aided by the revelation of God and so many of the things that you describe in the course of your talk rely upon revelation um and I think you know like sometimes you'll hear from Skeptics or critics that it's a black box claim it can't be proved it's the type of thing that you know once you give them the keys to the car sure they're going to drive around in it but like I don't give you the keys to the car so in response to that would you say that like are there reasonable arguments kind of like apologetic arguments or you know things of that sort which help kind of break US Open more to or maybe you know kind of uh cast in a more acceptable light for the skeptical 21st century man this this this idea not this idea but this reality of Revelation that there could be something from Beyond that addresses us in our limitations and brings us forth from it yeah well you know first of all um there there is The Human Experience on a natural level of a kind of Revelation in as much as uh you know you you tell me you reveal certain things about yourself to me and um what I know about you you're you know you're you're a credible trustworthy person so why shouldn't I believe that and I believe that but that's I'm making an Act of Faith in doing that so I'm now is that is that unreasonable oh I don't think so in fact What would life be like if if none of us did that if if you know we had to you know speaking of GK Chesterton he he um he was noting you know the the the the the human ordering to Truth uh and this explains why it's so easy to lie because and to get away with it because we have a natural Affinity to the truth and and to communicate to the truth in our speech and so imagine what life would be like if you had to be skeptical uh of anything anyone ever told you in the course of the day we don't do that we we by and large uh we we just believe what people say to us uh even if they're total strangers uh and this is I think what's operating here on a subconscious level is the fact that we are ordered to the truth that we do have a natural affinity for the truth that it it uh it more often than not comes out in our speech and so that we uh assume rightly that people are being honest and truthful with us so that's all at a natural level and uh you know that that it's perfectly reasonable in fact in fact it would be uh it would be extreme to try to live otherwise unnatural inhuman even uh so it is the same by analogy when it comes to Supernatural revelation whereby God uh reveals uh things about himself and us to us uh many of which we wouldn't know if he didn't reveal this to us well you know what's unreasonable about that uh necessarily especially if God's existence itself is reasonable uh and you know this is where it's helpful you know when especially if you're entering into the mind of Saint Thomas that God's um God's existence itself is is not only it's not only reasonable it's rationally compelling arguments are uh on the side of God's existence not against God's existence and so if if God um exists must exist rationally speaking well is it much of a stretch to uh say that it's possible that that God uh intervene in human history in in human lives and reveal himself and cultivate relationship with with human beings especially since God is truth truth must exist uh otherwise um you know if truth didn't exist well then what would be the standard of measure by which we could judge anything to be true even a mathematical truth like two plus two equals four uh you know it would it would be nonsensical to say that that is true uh because if there's no standard of measure of truth then you then it's not then truth is nothing but when we say two plus two equals four then we're acknowledging even subconsciously that that that you know this mathematical um proposition two plus two equals four it participates in in in in in truth itself in truth so if God exists and God is Truth uh then uh then then what God reveals then God is the you know the supremely trustworthy Source if he's if he is to disclose certain things about himself uh and um um to reveal himself now there's that and there's also you know there's we can also appreciate just speaking of this apologetically from the angle of those who have claimed that they have that God's revelation has been uh offered to them I'm speaking specifically of say the prophets you know oracle of the Lord uh word of the Lord uh where they are they are asserting that that God has spoken to them and they are passing on now God's revealed word or most especially to the apostles let's just take the apostles for instance now they claim to have witnessed uh on on uh in an intimate way the ministry and most especially the death and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus so um okay uh that on one level uh claiming that they know a person who's come back from the dead would seem crazy because there's not any other uh historical instance where one can say I know someone who's come back from the dead and not just come back from the dead not revive be revived from death but never to die again uh well then what makes you believe these apostles well okay um there are several things that one can point to first uh that if you know if they made this up then they were willing to suffer torture persecution and death to make up what they knew was a fabrication Saint Paul says that you know that Jesus appeared to to uh 500 of us and he names names you don't name names if if it's if it's concocted if it's fabricated because of course you could easily verify it then with those with those people you certainly don't name 500 names you know and uh but most especially um through the course of the history of the church the difference in the lives that the church has made the saints that the churches produced Pope Benedict the 16th he he said that the strongest argument in favor of God's existence and of the of the Church of the church are Saints and um how to explain this you know how how to account for what is what is really an and non-existent in the ancient world before Christ uh you know hold up let's hold up the great uh human models of the ancient world let's look at Rome and Aeneas or uh you know for Homer it's it's it's uh someone like Odysseus uh or you know Hector perhaps what have you these these individuals certainly um on one level they're they're great heroic human individuals but they're not Saints they're far from it you know you don't have you don't have a Mother Teresa who you know uh and I was watching documentary a few years ago Mother Teresa recounts the experience the first time she picked up a poor man in the streets he was being eaten with worms and he asked her why she was doing this to him and he said because I love you this one one doesn't find anything like this before Christ really I mean one finds foreshadowings of it in the in the chosen people of Israel but not in its fullest extent uh in this the sense of fullness of self-giving love which indeed comes from Christ and comes from Christ on the cross so you know um and and at the end of the day father Gregory boy I tell you I I would say um then what do you have without you know without god without what what is offer to you uh and if you accept divine revelation uh eternal life yeah and and um and meaning of for suffering uh a real answer to the to the most fundamental existential questions that that human beings pose without divine revelation one has no real meaningful answers to those questions you know so you you choose you choose I choose a meaningful life I choose a happy life all right Kudos well I'm glad you did because otherwise this conversation would happen well it'd be difficult to go forward no that's not entirely true I mean sometimes it's exciting talking to atheists but yeah I think um yeah insofar as you share a communion on a more profound basis then yeah you can go a little further into conversation all right maybe to give one to the atheists uh which is to say we're not going to give one to the atheists but if we were to give one to the atheists uh in your estimation uh you've probably you know in your studies and your work and your in your research you've come across a variety of arguments against the Divine institution of the church or against the possibility of Revelation like things that touch on the theme that you described in your lecture um what of those ones can you identify one that you think to be especially powerful um and then do you have a way by which of addressing it or kind of uh yeah clapping back yeah well I mean um first of all there's just the assumption that what can't be seen uh isn't real or that you know it I found conceptually that for atheists this is especially true the new of the new atheists that their conception of common stuff is not it's not an intellectually coherent conception of God or it's at least not what it's not what Saint Thomas means by God it's not what we mean by God uh they consider God to be you know you know they'll make fun that uh we have astronauts to go up into space and looking for God and they didn't find them there you know so he doesn't exist um God is not one being among others you know God is Not of this world he is uh he is beyond this world and he is the source of being itself he's not one being he is he is being so there's there is no proper proportionality between the world and God and of course only with such a being can created being or finite being uh be accounted for uh can we can we understand it so um you know I I find that uh you know a first a first um move that one has to make is to make sure that we understand the same thing when we say the word god and that if if we just mean that you know God is just this uh old guy with a beard who you know stands around the corner and um tells us what to do shouts Commandments at us or it's just the biggest strongest guy on the Block you know he's the one with the nuclear missiles even Saint Augustine in the confessions acknowledges that he labored for a long term under the illusion that God had a body that God was a body and it wasn't until he was free to that illusion that Yes mine literally I ah it it you know the sky's opened and and he had a revelation and uh it he finally he got the god the God thing so that that's that's the the more conceptual issue I would say and just the the uh the enlightenment view that all of realities is flattened out reduced to material reality uh reality that you can um visibly perceive and measure uh you know so to just to address that why why um no one really believes that no one really lives their lives uh you know uh in accordance with such a strict reductionist view of reality okay there's that and then there's then there's the problem of evil um the existential problem of evil and um and the assumption that um that if there is the existence of evil then God cannot exist um so you know I mean there are issues with there it's it's it's certainly it's a false assumption um but you know it's it's a uh you know one thing I like to point out is that that objection against God's existence on the basis of the existence of evil in itself is a fruit of the biblical Revelation because it's only the Bible that that tells us that God is moral that God is Holy the Holy One and uh and God is merciful so the way the objection goes if God is loving and merciful then how you know why would he uh how could he allow for evil well you only speak of God as loving and merciful on account of the biblical witness in other words this was not an issue for the ancient world outside the Bible you know the Greeks and the Romans were not objecting to God's existence uh on account of the existence of evil in fact evil was to be attributed to the gods if you if you're speaking of the of the natural religions of the ancient world the gods themselves were responsible for evil that's you know this is how to understand it so it already it's a Biblical framework to pose the problem is itself biblically inspired flowing from the biblical Witness okay but but uh but in any case that you know the the Bible has has profound answers to that question and it um and it reaches a high point in the Old Testament with the Book of Job and then of course in the New Testament with um with the death and resurrection of Jesus himself um as you turn to you I mean I think of you know Premier Parts question two article three on the existence of God when Saint Thomas says for his arguments against the existence of God well you know you don't need this hypothesis on account of the fact that you have a science which is sufficient and then also evil how do you square that with the god whom you're about to describe in these glowing terms um but it's fascinating like in the 20th century it seems that the way that this evil argument is picked up a lot of people focus on the evil that is brought by Christians um so this notion like you've been behind the Inquisition and the Crusades and all kinds of things besides uh I think it's C.S Lewis who says in Mere Christianity did the greatest argument against Christianity as Christians um and today I was having a conversation with a religious sister who pertains to the shunstadt community it's really excellent uh woman very wise and she told she was just recounting this little Parable where she says you know man I kind of like a merchant was talking to a Christian priest and this Merchant happened to be a producer of soap and they were like sitting in the Town Square looking at all of the the mess of humanity that passed by and the merchant said something to the effect of like you've had you know centuries and centuries and and what have you done what have you Christians done to improve the state of man you know they're just the same you know kind of filthy uh unreformed like animals that they always were and so like the Christian the priest you know like looks and sees in the foreground this this little boy who's playing in the mud um and he sees he says and you you know producer of soap after hundreds and hundreds of years you haven't you know you haven't yet achieved the goal of making man clean like look at this young child and so um the merchant claps back and says like well you know soap can't make clean unless it's applied and he says Ah and there you have the response Christianity can't make good unless it's lived um and so it's fascinating that like people will often use arguments against the faith when it's not so much a matter of the thing itself as the living of the thing I think it's again Chesterton who says that it's not that Christianity has been uh found wanting it's it's been that it's found difficult and then left untried or that it's been tried and found wanting it's been found difficult and left untried yeah all right so we have time for for one more question um and I thought yeah maybe just you you touched on this at the end of your lecture and it's a really fascinating topic that I think a lot of our listeners are asking themselves uh but there seems to be this tension in the church between on the one hand you know extra ecclesion outside of the church there is no salvation and on the other hand like when you read you referenced um uh considerably the documents of the second Vatican Council I'm thinking here of lumen gentium when you get into the teens where we're talking about membership or incorporation and the document acknowledges elements of Grace and salvation outside of the visible Church which pertain to you know the catholicity of the church and have a kind of tendency towards the church so on the one hand we're saying outside of the church there is no salvation and then on the other hand we're saying that there are elements of Grace and salvation outside the church which have a kind of dynamism towards the a church so when people are thinking about the question of Salvation when they're worrying about you know all of those whom they know and love who have died perhaps without the sacraments or on their way to the faith or maybe in a momentary break with the faith like what what are some principles or some arguments that you set forth in response to that yeah it's this is really um important especially in today's culture where so many people do consider themselves spiritual not religious or they aren't affiliated with any religion in particular certainly not with the Christian faith that um that uh outside the church no salvation when uh well this is this is to say the same as outside of Christ there's no salvation um Christ is the sole unique mediator uh between man and God he is our sole savior but um and and Christ continues to save the world through the church by his will and by his institution uh in Saint Thomas you know this is where I love Saint Thomas saying that uh the Reason God does this he certainly he doesn't have to continue to say the world through the instrumentality of the church composed of Sinners who give Grace Scandal through their Lifestyles more often than not it's in order to a noble man St Thomas says in order to to give man a share in the dignity that's proper to him he makes human beings to be instruments of Salvation themselves but instruments of salvation okay but at the same time Christ is not limited by the church he's not confined to the church he's not confined to the sacraments that that the power of God the power of Christ is is infinite and uh the the you know the a a a a profound fundamental uh Catholic principle that is at play here is that the grace of Christ can be mysteriously present in anyone's life no matter no matter what they're professing no matter how it appears on the outside uh you might even have an atheist but who knows you know maybe that that atheist has uh is of uh Invincible Goodwill um and so Invincible ignorance so they're not at fault perhaps uh only God can read the human mind and heart only he can know when that's the case uh but they are a fundamental Good Will and one really I would argue cannot be a fundamental Goodwill without the grace of Christ because of the power of sin and the the grip that sin holds in our hearts uh to be a personal fundamental Goodwill means that in essence one one is one is committed to the good one is committed to a good greater than my own good my own private good and I think one can only do that with the grace of Christ so we must always hope uh that that no matter what um disposition or um say conceptual framework a person might end one's life in uh one never knows and uh and one never knows how God was at work or perhaps present in that person's life um even in you know even in the case of suicide one doesn't know what what you know what went through that person's mind and hard to lead them uh to that point but at the end of the day we know that that God's causality is greater than Adam's causality you know yeah that that that uh Christ's Redemptive power is stronger than human sin and uh and Christ's Mercy is is uh uh you know the God wants to save us he you know uh he desires the salvation of all as Saint Paul says in one Timothy 2 5. he desires everyone to be saved and he's made it as easy as possible to be saved to profess faith in the Lord Jesus and be baptized uh but we we look at it wrongly if we think that that becomes then uh an obstacle to a person's salvation if they haven't experienced that um that uh it's not to make it difficult you know it's it's not to to set up a roadblock to salvation but to make it as easy as possible so um yeah so that that the grace of Christ uh can be operative in in any person's life and at the end of the day um you know it it re it requires us to refrain from passing judgment on a person uh you know uh only God can do that uh of course we can we can pass judgment on the externalities and recognize that you know there are objective deficiencies here insofar as one is not Catholic there is an objective deficiency uh one has all the means of Salvation available to to oneself in the Catholic faith so if one is not Catholic one has well partial means then or the possibility of partial means and where there's partial means there's the possibility of salvation right now yeah um no that's great that's wonderful that's super helpful and those are great principles for us to uh you know kind of take hold of and then suss out in future conversations as we go forth you know thinking about this particular issue which is a vaccine one um all right so thanks so much for your time thanks so much for uh investing more in this lecture than one ordinarily might if folks want to follow up with you you know maybe particular books or particular articles particular projects that you're currently involved in are there places to which you might direct our attention uh sure um yeah the uh um I've published a lot of articles in novet Vedra and in the tomest uh but they can certainly um send me an email pcgandro gmail.com I don't have a website or I don't have a Twitter handle either but uh certainly uh I would invite them to send me an email I will have a book coming out a collection of my essays on touching on human sexuality in various respects uh that'll be coming out by Emmaus um um but that'll that'll be a shortcoming I haven't supplied the essays yet but it's it's it'll be coming out soon perfect hey congratulations on that that's great um all right so that's all we have for you with this installment of off campus conversations we now have a name for these bi-weekly installments so you can just yeah you can cite that bingo bango uh if you haven't yet please do subscribe to the domestic Institute podcast wherever you consume your content whether that be on YouTube or on your favorite podcast app and then look at domesticinstitute.org for upcoming events uh so lectures on campus conferences intellectual Retreats at Alia who use Modi as St Thomas Aquinas would say and for those of you who aren't weird people that means and other things besides or other things of the same sort so thanks so much for listening uh no of our prayers for you please pray for us and we'll look forward to chatting with you next time on the domestic Institute podcast [Music]

Channel: The Thomistic Institute

Views: 5,147

Keywords: aquinas, thomas aquinas, philosophy, theology, awesome, wisdom, faith, reason, science, thomism, summa theologiae, scholasticism, saint, belief, christianity, catholicism, aquinas 101, aquinas101, dominicans, dominican friars, province of st. joseph, faith and reason, science and faith, science and religion, thomistic institute, st. thomas aquinas, catholic, op, o.p., fr. dominic legge, fr. gregory pine, fr. thomas joseph white, fr. james brent, fr. thomas davenport

Id: _dBKxG_kLWU

Length: 42min 3sec (2523 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 06 2022