What is Creationism?

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to FFRF ask an atheist I'm Annie Laurie Gaylor and I'm Dan Barker Annie Laurie and I are co-presidents of the Freedom From Religion Foundation I'm I'm Andrew Seidel a constitutional attorney here at FFRF today's topic is the ever timely unfortunately ever timely evolution and creationism controversy and we decided to tackle this topic this week in honor of the magnificent Clarence Darrow statue that FFRF has underwritten which would be dedicated in Dayton Tennessee at the end of the week and that's Dayton Tennessee which is the home of the famous 1925 Scopes trial that pitted evolution in the schools against the creationists and also in Pitt the famed attorney Clarence Darrow against William Jennings Bryan in the courtroom and I'm sure you know that the trial disgracefully ended in a conviction of John Scopes for breaking the law by teaching evolution in the schools Bryan College placed the statue to honor Bryan on the lawn of the r8 County Courthouse in Dayton in 2005 so it was a little imbalanced and so and we are delighted that FFRF is part of balancing that history and giving Dayton Tennessee a gift of artwork of lasting significance fashioned by the highly talented sculptor Denis frudakis the installation of this statue is this Thursday and the dedication is this Friday so we don't have a photo of the real thing yet but we do have this artist conception of what the long will look like with the Clarence Darrow statue we have some preliminary photographs you can see the evolution of this statue some of the work was actually done in the kitchen of Don McLean songwriter of American Pie by the way and we have some we have some photos of the statue as it is being created right here as well well rather unbelievably this beautiful state at you of an eminent civil libertarian has sparked a lot of controversy including threats by this local woman she is said she's going to stop the installation of the monument and she's quoted Bible passages about executing the heathens and she's holding the shotgun in that photo of her on Facebook some of the Tennessee pastors Network held a small meeting on July 1st in Dayton Tennessee to protest the statute they called it a rally but it was really tiny so it's not really a rally but about half the room was filled with supporters of the Clarence Darrow statue you can see that sign welcome Clarence Darrow the humorous aspect of this so-called rally was the comment by a pastor who insisted that our founding fathers were not atheists or evolutionists and you probably already know that the founders thought science was so important that they provided for it as a government function in our Constitution Congress had supposed to quote promote the progress of science and useful arts by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive rights of their respective writings and discoveries as men of the Enlightenment they would have been thrilled had they lived long enough to read Darwin's Origin of Species which came out in 1859 and answered so many questions especially some that they had because quote nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution as the adoshem stove Jansky put here at freethought Hall and Madison Wisconsin we are the proud owners of a silicone sculpture of Charles Darwin who resides in our library and he's so lifelike that he frequently scares visitors to the building and sometimes she scares our staff anyway we're greatly looking forward to seeing history being balanced finally at the home of the Scopes trial later this week let's talk briefly about of the state of the law Andrew so the law on this is actually pretty clear it is unconstitutional to prohibit the teaching of evolution the earliest Supreme Court this was efforts in versus Arkansas in 1968 and the courts have been so good on this that creationists and legislators rarely test it and be imperative directly anymore instead they typically try to circumvent the rule by teaching creationism or intelligent design or by adding disclaimer stickers to evolutions or textbooks but the courts have consistently ruled that creationism no matter how it is disguised cannot be taught in the public schools in Edwards V Aguilar a 1987 case the Supreme Court held that public schools cannot teach quote scientific creationism and struck down the Louisiana balanced treatment for creation science and evolution science in the public schools instruction Act in the most recent case to address this issue Kitzmiller V Dover which was a 2005 case the court found that intelligent design was simply creationism relabeled and the court held that because intelligent design is not science the conclusion is inescapable that the only real effect of a policy promoting intelligent design is the advancement of religion in that case by the way the school district actually paid out over a million dollars in legal fees for defending this patently unconstitutional policy and I like to joke and I guess lots of people like to joke that creationists are proof of evolution because their backdoor attempts to inject Asian creations and into science classes keep evolving and I also like to say that it is a black eye on our nation that so many adult Americans reject evolution it's only recently been a major survey that found a majority by slim margin accept evolution and typically we see about half of Americans reject evolution and that really holds our nation back the journal Science published a 2005 study making the public acceptance of evolution in 34 Western countries and the United States ranked 33 second to last and understanding evolution is absolutely essential to any comprehension of by all lg medicine pharmaceutical research agriculture biotechnology we cannot understand these things without understanding evolution so this resistance to accepting evolution is putting our students and therefore the future of our country as a significant disadvantage and retarding progress and imperiling the standing of the United States Eugenie Scott who's executive director of the National who was the executive director of the National Center for Science education put it this way you can't really be scientifically literate if you don't understand evolution and you can't be an educated member of society if you don't understand science so so that's no laughing matter but sometimes you can find humor yes and we won we wanted to share some cartoons by our favorite cartoonist an addict who recently died but he was a very talented cartoonist at the st. Petersburg Times and he did a number of cartoons making fun of creationists and so we have a little show for you [Music] [Applause] and and [Music] [Applause] you [Music] and we're the [Music] and that's the cartoonist Don Adams who has had a funny way of explaining complex issues so evolution is to some people a complex issue and to others that's very simple to me it's just change over time but this is asking atheists and so Andrew do we have any questions from we actually have quite a few questions today the first question is from Steve H who asks I've been in 80s for over 40 years and I'm curious as to the difference between creationism and intelligent design are there differences well we know from the Kitzmiller case that the intelligent design is just a dressed-up creationism it's just the same old biblical fundamentalism where they're trying to make it look scientific when they use the phrase intelligent design well the word design implies a designer so there's a creator so that's creationism it is it's just rebranded and that's what the Dover versus Kitzmiller case actually holds and there's a really interesting fact that the parents discovered in that case the textbook that they were trying to use of pandas and people actually they did a find and replace for creationists in the old version of pandas and people and replaced that term with intelligent design proponents and there was actually a spot where they messed up and it said see intelligent design proponents is because they had misspelled the creationists so when it got when they did the find and replace it actually just left it there so the smoking gun showing that creationism and intelligent design are exactly the same thing so yeah we're very clear on that point but maybe the slight difference is that when people hear the word creationism they think the God of the Bible this personal being what booth when I create but when people hear the phrase intelligent design well that could be like maybe any God or some nebulous concept of a deity which is how they're trying to sneak it into the schools I think that I think the court would have disagreed with you on that one though okay I mean it's I think creationism really is no different than intelligent design I think it's it's just they're trying to rebrand it and they're trying to sneak it in through that back door and I think they're probably relying on on people's feelings like that without actually kind of the critical thought involved so we have another question we have another question this is from Sabrina Louisa Louisa Dee's Meredith's sorry for butchering your name I apologize what does it take to convince a person that creationism is not rational dan you're the debater well it's Bible fundamentalism well because the only evidence and I use that word in quotes the only evidence they have for it isn't really evidence at all it's a story it's a book out it's a story out of the book of Genesis that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth so that's what creationism is it's a story and there's a lot of creation myths around the world my Native American tribe has a myth it was like the turtle floating on the water and it dug down in the mud and brought up the continents and all those things that's a creation myth so basically it's a cute story but that's all it is other than that there's no evidence at all for the idea clear I don't think it's a cute story or Geneva was framed my gosh by the natural the turo mighty that is talking about Jenna's or not Jenna by the third chapter Genesis woman has lost her identity and she's been blamed for bringing sin and death into the world and she'd been cursed with motherhood so you know you know that she should bring forth children and sorrow and suffering so but that's a bit early I wasn't talking about the snake story the turtle story but so I don't know that we really answered to bring this question I mean what it takes is that somebody is willing to bifurcate their religious views and use reason in accepting scientific evidence and if you're a real fundamentalist you're not going to be able to do that but then your story does say something about the evolution of your reason because it was Adam and Eve being portrayed as a metaphor and some of them slightly more liberal churches that you were entertaining it as a Christian missionary and singer that got you on your journey out of reach out of religion because Adam and Eve is a story and there were a lot of Christian there are a lot of Christians today theistic evolutionists who think that the story of Adam and Eve is similar to the parable that Jesus told about the prodigal son they weren't really true stories it was just a moral message and so the ancient Israelites invented this parable called Adam and Eve to explain sin and all of that and so on that very shocking as a fundamentalist but then gradually you saw the people weren't loonies and nice and then you and then and now we know that there could not have been an Adam antenna there could not have been a first man and the first woman and even if there were they would have come out of Africa not out of the garden in the Middle East so there's something weird about the story itself but but I think going back to Sabrina's question the creation is never give any evidence for no positive scientific studies or research or any of that all they do is they attack evolution as if simply by destroying your opponent so you've somehow proved your own case they actually don't make a case for creationism and that's what they're rational about it and I think it's really the million-dollar question you know how can you actually change somebody's mind I think and I one of the things that I found effective and we actually we've seen studies that show that if you bring up facts it can actually entrench people in their wrongly held beliefs even though the facts disprove them so one of the more effective things to do is to actually go after their method of believing and in this case creationists believe on faith so if you explain why believing in something based on faith rather than evidence is not a good idea and kind of attack attacked a belief from that vantage point you might have a little bit better luck well we'll have to get back to that question we have smores we do Rachael McKenna asks I saw that FFRF was recently blocked on Twitter by Ken Ham why are creationists like him and others so quick to block with opposing views on social media instead of engaging in debate well I mean I think there's think there's a great article that Valerie Tirico wrote about why religion is a closed information system you know it's an incapable of dealing with new information so you know if you're if you're continually presenting them with evidence that their beliefs are wrong the best thing to do is to just shut that that input that inflow of information down it's it's a very metaphoric action by Ken Ham isn't it but you would think they would welcome criticism because this would be an opportunity to make their case they should be open to that's here let's bring it on but don't you think I'm a little more cynical than this don't you think it's money he's got this arc Park right and he wants people to think positively about going there and if we're raising questions about this art park we're going to impact the pocketbook of the Art Park don't you think that's part of the deal a community blames the poor attendance on the Art Park on atheists like us and you know we've been doing a lot of work about educating people on that arc so we're we're proud to take any and we we did a video with you there yeah so we're happy to take the credit yes we are impacting it so this is a rather long-winded question that Terry harmony asks what Ken Ham lacks in fact he makes up for in charisma Ken Ham tweets about your secular religion he claims persecution by Chris of Christians by the followers of your secular faith is on the rise have you ever or would you ever get involved in a case where you policed secularists jumping over the wall of separation and on to the other side take a scenario where an atheist groups ought to violate the free speech from another group would ffrs stop that this is a better summation of the question here is FFR a teen atheist or team Constitution of the United States of America so clearly things will be constitution yes I think that's the short answer to that long question yeah but whenever I look at Ken Han the last word I think of is charisma I don't I don't know about you but you know he has this audience that loves what he's doing and Christians like to feel persecuted even in the New Testament blessed are you when you are persecuted so they like they have the sort of herd mentality of us you know against the evil world out there but I think that I think anyway I was right yes as we're a constitutional group we would go after an atheist to Christ if there was an atheist high school teacher for example who is telling students you need to stop going to church because belief in God is irrational in Jesus as a myth that would be crossing the line that that would be government speech that was doing just the same bad thing that creationists teachers do by crossing the line we think the government should be neutral although in in practice it's it's not easy to atheists or across an aisle I've we've never seen it but it could happen I could know there could be some angry atheist teacher who would want to it you know abused the office to impose their 80s amount of students that would be just as bad and I'm sure we would send a letter about that you can't do that as a high school teacher sure and just a few things in the question you know secularism and atheism aren't the same thing the wall of separation guarantees a secular state so would we be policing secularists jumping over the wall of separation no because that's very unlikely creative and then a violation of free speech from another group would FFRF stop that a violation of free speech the freedom of speech is guaranteed that the government won't get involved in your your free speech activities that's what the First Amendment says so the Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech so it's not about one group burdening another groups free speech you should after getting at the people and campuses that are big it's basically shouting down speakers and I do very much think that is the wrong tactic I'd be there with my picket sign and I have anytime's but I would not go in and physically disrupt a gathering that was being put on at a college university because I didn't like the person I would educate about it as long as the best way to combat a bad ideas with the better maybe go in and ask a question that I wouldn't engage in harassment to the point where they could not go on that happened to so many women that free thinkers especially they'd turn off the lights and that 19th century day clergymen would come in and scream at them we don't want to do that no and I mean that could very easily happen to us as well we all go to college campuses regularly that happened to me in which I was at the University of Iowa during free speech week talking about freedom of religion and right during my talk someone turned my mic off and Hector Avalos had to go backstage and find my channel was turned down to zero the ultimate and when it came back up I said thank you for the compliment how often do you say something so provocative during three Beach week if somebody turns your microphone off that's a--fun and we have another question we do from mention Solomon asks believing the earth is less than 6,000 years old does no harm to anyone and has no effect on the development of technology or industrialization why do you care if people are creationists well it does do a lot of harm I think as I said I think that it is retarding progress in our nation you can't be a scientifically literate and productive society if you askew facts like evolution that all of biology is predicated on so it's very harmful to our productivity for our national standing as that you were a science major do you have any other now I agree with that completely it impacts so many different areas of scientific advancement Pharmaceuticals is a huge area where I mean if creationism were held by all or enforced by the government which is what many religions are looking for you know we would be back in the dark ages so I think I think it does do a significant amount of harm and we also are is an abstract concept that we're fighting against you know again we've had seven complaints it just in 2017 about next gun in public school about teachers imposing creationism on students and that does make me alarm absolutely so that's the problem it's not that we care what some person's private beliefs are this is a free country right even though they might be silly dangerous private beliefs we don't care if somebody thinks the world is 6,000 years old until they get into the science classroom and start telling all the students this is what you must believe or you must question the evidence so it's not so much that we were bothered by people's beliefs I mean people might believe in leprechauns or elves or the Mother Goose or whatever but when they're trying to use government to impose it on others or to an iphone4 disciple you know the facts of science that's what we care about and there is something to be said in the abstract for trying to believe as many true things and excuse false things as possible I agree I mean we shouldn't be patting people on the back for being as ignorant as possible we should be saying you really shouldn't believe in something is there's no good reason for it there's not evidence and most of religion is based on lack of evidence and unsafe exactly and there is this really scary article in Denver Post it was at the end of June about the Flat Earth right matters which the rise of this and they're going to try to put up a billboard and we're going to try to put up one to counter it rate that one up step flat earthers come out a rise of it flat alright so I think we'll do our final question and this is from George George asks do you think Ken Ham is going against the Bible and will be going to hell for blocking people on social media after all it's a Christian calling to win souls for Christ so is he wasting this opportunity to proselytize I have some good news for Ken Ham he is not going to help smile there is no house there is no hell oh so he may have some sins against the intellect but he's not going to be punished forever and nor is anyone because of their beliefs on religion but the question is assuming that Kim is consistent with his own biblical teachings right so shouldn't he be the Bible says you should in all gentleness and meekness spread the gospel to every creature so you would think and I would have thought shutting down debate is the wrong thing to do would be very unchristian thing to do not very gentle or meek palm smile there is no hell I think a great spot to end the show on so next week next week I think we're doing a special show doing something very special we're doing a throwback Wednesday I believe for next week's show it will be very exciting so join us next week Wednesday at noon for FFRF ask an atheist [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: Freedom From Religion Foundation

Views: 19,802

Keywords: Ark Encounter, Creationist Museum, Creationism, Evolution, Clarence Carrow, Evolution is True, Scopes Trial, Why evolution is true, creationism science, young earth, Freedom From Religion Foundation, FFRF

Id: YL55zs-7-98

Length: 25min 34sec (1534 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 12 2017