What do Catholics and Orthodox Think of Each Other?

this video is one of a multi-part collaboration with useful charts Matt is making a series of videos that gives a detailed family tree of Christian denominations today he releases a video on Catholics and Orthodox so make sure to check that out what do Catholics and Orthodox think of each other there can be differences with how the churches officially view each other and how individual Catholics or Orthodox view the other side's churches there are Catholics with a very positive view of the Orthodox church and others with a negative View and the same goes the other way it would be a mistake to say that opinions are uniform by the way I know there's also controversy over the terminology in this video when I say Orthodox I'm only referring to what is sometimes known as the Eastern Orthodox Church not including Oriental Orthodox or any other group not in communion Catholics are sometimes known as Roman Catholics I'm just going to say Orthodox and Catholic in this video also I will be quoting a variety of Orthodox and Catholic sources but they do not generally speak on behalf of their entire tradition what we'll talk about in this video will give you some of the perspectives present it but certainly not all of them another thing to mention is that we'll be discussing how these two Traditions view each other both sides will likely have things to dispute about how they're represented by the other with those clarifications let's begin by looking at how Catholics view Orthodox and then we'll look at how Orthodox view Catholics first let's look at a couple historical statements and then move to the present Thomas Aquinas a 13th century Catholic philosopher and theologian wrote in a book called against the errors of the Greeks to be subject to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for Cyril says in his thesaurus therefore Brethren if we imitate Christ so as to hear his voice remaining in the Church of Peter and so as not be puffed up by the wind of Pride lest perhaps because of our quarreling the Wily serpent drive us from Paradise as one seated Eve and maximus in the letter addressed to the orientals says the church United and established upon the rock of Peter's confession we call according to the decree of the Savior The Universal Church wherein we must remain for the Salvation of our souls and wherein loyal to his faith and confess question we must obey him at the time of aquinas's writing what he said would not have been particularly unusual and this position of Catholics toward Orthodox can be found in documents spanning centuries this is one way people have viewed the Catholic doctrine of extra ecclesium nullusalis meaning outside of the church's no salvation Pope Eugene IV over a century later issued a papal bull that said the most holy Roman Church firmly believes professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic church not only pagans but also Jews and Heretics and schismatics can have a share in life eternal but that they will go into the Eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels unless before death they are joined with her and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this Unity can profit by the sacraments of the church unto salvation and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts their almsgivings their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian Soldier no one let his almsgiving be as great as it may no one even if he poured out his blood for the name of Christ can be saved unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church the Catholic Church teaches that someone can receive salvation from the church without being a member of it the belief that a person must actually be a member in the Catholic church to be saved is limited today mostly to a subset of traditionalist Catholics and state of a contests and to be very clear the Catholic Church views her position as compatible with the statement of Pope Eugene IV above a set of traditionalists within Catholicism today take these kinds of statements from history to mean that a person must be a member of the Catholic Church to be saved but this is not the position of the Catholic Church itself which states that it always has been possible for people outside the membership of the church to receive salvation though that salvation is provided to them by the church as the sacred Congregation of the Holy office said in 1949 among those things which the church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no no salvation outside the church however this Dogma must be understood in that sense in which the church herself understands it for it was not the private judgments that our savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of Faith but to the teaching authority of the church John Carroll the First bishop and Archbishop in the United States who lived in the 1700s and 1800s said to be in the communion of the Catholic church and to be a member of the church are two different things they are in the communion of profession of her faith and participation of her sacraments through the ministry and government of her lawful pastors the members of the Catholic Church are all those who with a sincere heart seek the True Religion and are in unfeigned disposition to embrace the truth wherever they find it it never was our doctrine that salvation can be obtained only by the former as this relates to the Orthodox many within the Catholic church today see them as the closest group to themselves that's not in communion with the Pope Pope Francis said in 2017 Catholics and Orthodox by professing together the dogmas of the first seven ecumenical councils by believing in the efficacy of the Eucharist and the other sacraments and by preserving the apostolic succession of the ministry of Bishops experience already a profound closeness with one another in 1965 the pope of the Catholic church and The ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople of the Orthodox Church lifted excommunications that had been made in the 11th century that are considered part of the East-West Schism this move was seen very positively from the Catholic side though there were many on the Orthodox side who were unhappy with it in 2007 the Catholic Church's congregation for the doctrine of the faith noted that the Catholic Church doesn't consider Protestant churches to be churches saying it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of church could possibly be attributed to them seeing that they do not accept the theological notion of the church in the Catholic sense and that they lack elements considered essential to the Catholic church that being said it is then of course notable that the Catholic church does not have such qualms with the Orthodox in 1995 Pope John Paul II issued an encyclical orientali Lumen which was very focused on seeking Union of the Orthodox and Catholics but also called the Orthodox Churches Orthodox churches on August 6 2000 Dominus e a Zeus a declaration by the congregation for the doctrine of the faith stated therefore there exists a single Church of Christ which subsists in the Catholic Church governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him the churches which while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church remain United to her by means of the closest bonds that is by Apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist are true particular churches this statement affirms the Orthodox Churches as True Churches however it is important to note that the Catholic Church doesn't view the Schism as over either the Catholic answers website says while Eastern Orthodox Christians have much in common with Catholics they're still in Schism they have split off from the legitimate authority of the Pope and therefore aren't Catholics today the Catholic view is that the holy orders of the Orthodox Church that is their ordinations are valid additionally as stated their Eucharist is also viewed as valid if a Catholic was in a place where their only option was to receive the Eucharist at an orthodox church this is acceptable from the Catholic side however from the Orthodox side Catholics are not permitted to take communion at their churches likewise the Catholic Church accepts that an orthodox layperson could take the Eucharist at their church but the Orthodox Church forbids its members from doing so the Catholic answers Ministry says on their website if you happen to be at an orthodox liturgy on a Sunday or holy day this does fulfill your obligation even if you are not able to receive Holy Communion in summary from the Catholic perspective they are very close to the Orthodox the Catholic answers website says both have valid holy orders and Apostolic succession through the episcopacy both celebrate these same sacraments both believe almost exactly the same Theology and both proclaim the same faith in Christ how Orthodox view Catholics because of the more complex Orthodox response to this question we'll spend a bit longer answering it here's what one Orthodox congregation Saint John the Evangelist Orthodox Church in Beaver Falls Pennsylvania says the differences between our churches are far more numerous from an orthodox perspective than they are from a Catholic perspective the Orthodox Church views itself as the true one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church and does not include the Catholic Church as being part of this true church the Orthodox Church in America website says it is the fervent prayer of the Orthodox Church that all people Roman catholic unchurched whatever might someday be United to the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ until that becomes a reality we continue to pray for Unity while at the same time rejecting any notion that Orthodox Christianity is just one of many branches or expressions of Christianity to believe this would be to reject our understanding of Orthodoxy as the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church Saint John the Evangelist or Orthodox Church lists misconceptions about the Eastern Orthodox church and one of the misconceptions is that quote the Orthodox Church is an offshoot of the Roman Catholic Church here's what they have to say this second misconception usually stems from ignorance of church history as it implies Roman Catholicism precedes Orthodoxy not only that but it also implies the Orthodox Church is nothing more than a protest movement against Roman Catholicism neither of these implications are historically accurate for the first one thousand years of Christianity only one Church existed and it was one Holy Catholic and Apostolic per the Nicene Creed the early church was conciliar relying on ecumenical councils to distinguish Doctrine from heresy collegial all Bishops and all patriarchates of the church possessed equal Authority in the early church there were five major patriarchates Jerusalem Antioch Alexandria Rome and Constantinople because of his connection to both Saints Peter and Paul the patriarch of Rome received the title of Primus inter Paris first among equals however ever he possessed no more Authority than any of the others in fact a bishop with a diocese the size of Buford Wyoming had the same Authority as a bishop with a diocese the size of Texas when Rome ceased being Catholic over several hundred years the Greek East and Latin West drifted apart this ultimately resulted in the great schism of 80 10 54. some four years prior to that official break the Orthodox began to remove the Roman patriarch's name from the diptychs prayers for orthodox Bishops this indicates that whatever the Roman patriarchate had become it was no longer regarded as what the other patriarchists remained it had departed from Orthodoxy no longer being conciliar and collegial in some way in ad-1054 the pope excommunicated the patriarch of Constantinople in one last effort to assert authority over other patriarchates of course all the other Patriarchs ignored this as the pope had no such Authority therefore to distinguish themselves from the radical changes being implemented by the newly dubbed Roman Catholic Church a religion that now had only one head and had begun having its own Innovative councils the other Patriarchs adopted the term Orthodox from the church's own tradition for the Orthodox Roman Catholics are indeed the first Protestants Orthodox Churches May respect the holy orders that is the ordination of Catholics for example in the Orthodox Church in America the practice is to do vesting not reordination most Orthodox churches will accept into membership without baptism those who were baptized as Catholics All Saints Greek Orthodox Church in Canonsburg Pennsylvania says for example baptized Christians are generally received through the sacrament of chrismation in general the Orthodox church does not baptize a Christian who has received baptism in a Mainline Protestant or the Roman Catholic Church the Criterion is that the baptism was done in the name of the Trinity along with proof iea certificate or parental verification this is not universally the case however St John's Orthodox Church in Colchester England website says according to the strict view any Roman Catholic or Protestant who wishes to join the Orthodox Church Must Be received by baptism for they are considered not to have been baptized this is the practice on Mount Athos and Greece on Cyprus and in other parts of the Orthodox World especially in Serbia this is not re-baptism which is specifically rejected in the Nicene Creed re-baptism could only take place when Orthodox church baptism had already occurred which is utterly contrary to our faith Orthodox churches are not all in agreement on the validity of the Catholic Eucharist the Orthodox Church in America says for example many Orthodox Christians do view the Roman Catholic Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ others today would not subscribe to this the answer is linked to whether one believes that Roman Catholicism is with Grace or devoid of Grace however Orthodox churches do not believe that their members should take the Eucharist in Catholic churches the Orthodox Church in America says Orthodox Christians are not permitted to receive communion in non-orthodox communities including the Roman Catholic to do so would imply a Unity that in fact does not yet exist also it implies that we are united to the faith Community from which we receive the Eucharist in brief while Roman Catholicism sees Orthodoxy as a sister Church Orthodox he sees herself as the fullness of the church not the other half of the church as implied in the notion of a sister Church the Orthodox Church in America also says Orthodox Christianity in general would view certain aspects of Roman Catholic teaching as heretical the filioque is the classic example of this Orthodox Christianity also rejects such teachings as the Immaculate Conception purgatory and other uniquely Roman Catholic doctrines I mentioned earlier that another term for the Catholic church is the Roman Catholic Church many Catholics don't like this as they claim that only one of the rights of their church should be called Roman while the Eastern Catholic churches should not be however it's common for Orthodox Churches to refuse to call the church simply the Catholic Church the Orthodox Church in America website says those United with the pope of Rome are properly called Roman Catholics not Catholics what the Orthodox Churches think about whether Catholics will be saved like on other issues there are two views on this issue the Bulgarian Orthodox Church stated in 2016 when reunification proposals suggested Orthodox and Catholics not proselytizing each other the Roman Catholic church has fallen away from the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church and is a heretical church by virtue of the heretical dogmas adopted in it let us however remember the words of saint cyprian of Carthage that Heretics will never turn to the church if we ourselves strengthen them in the conviction that they also have a church and sacraments and in general how is it possible to reconcile the ban on proselytism with the thousand-year-old apostolic and patristic tradition which categorically considered Heretics to be outside the ship of the church and therefore outside of Salvation and therefore even more in need of our missionary service among them there has been a large body of historical teaching within Orthodox churches that Catholics do not possess salvation however today this teaching is not as universal as it once was and especially English seeking Orthodox churches in the west will rarely hold to it Metropolitan filleret the first hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox church outside Russia wrote in an article will the heterodox be saved the following the holy Orthodox Church is the repository of the divinely revealed truth in all its fullness and Fidelity to Apostolic tradition hence he who leaves the church who intentionally and consciously Falls away from it joins the ranks of its opponents and becomes a renegade as regards Apostolic tradition the church dreadfully anathematized such Renegades in accordance with the words of the Savior himself Matthew 18 17 and of the Apostle Paul Galatians 1 8-9 threatening them with eternal damnation and calling them to return to the Orthodox fold it is self-evident however that sincere Christians who are Roman Catholics or lutherans or members of other non-orthodox confessions cannot be termed Renegades or Heretics I.E those who knowingly pervert the truth they have been born and raised and are living according to the Creed which they have inherited just as do the majority majority of you who are Orthodox in their lives there has not been a moment of personal and conscious renunciation of Orthodoxy the Lord who will have all men to be saved First Timothy 2 4 and who enlightens every man born into the world John 1 43 undoubtedly is leading them also towards salvation in his own way the Orthodox Church in America website says it is the common teaching of the Orthodox Christian tradition that the church has no Monopoly on Grace and Truth and Love the church teaches on the contrary that God is The Sovereign Lord who saves Those whom he Wills the church believes as well that salvation depends upon the actual life of the person and God Alone is capable of judging since he alone knows the secrets of each mind and heart only God is capable of judging how well a man lives according to the measure of Grace Faith understanding and strength given to him every man is judged by God Alone according to the actual truth and love in his life this goes for orthodox and non-orthodox alike and although the Orthodox confess that the fullness of Truth and Love is found in the life of the church no nominal church membership or formal Ascent to some doctrines does not at all guarantee salvation here's a key thing to realize that can condense much of what was already said if you ask Catholics how far they are from Orthodox you are very likely to hear them claim that they are very similar nearly identical or even that they are the same church just currently with a break in communion if you ask Orthodox you're much more likely to hear that the differences are very great archbree's father Josiah trenim gave a talk on an orthodox perspective on Roman Catholicism which now has nearly 300 000 views on YouTube in it he said every one of the sacraments of the church have been altered significantly by the Roman Catholic church mostly since the great schism Saint John the Evangelist Orthodox Church says we may both have liturgical worship clergy sacraments Apostolic succession and intercessory prayer to Saints however a deeper look at our faiths show just how dissimilar they really are we are so different in fact that our churches are not in communion and haven't been for nearly a thousand years now here's how these Saint Paul antiochian Orthodox Church in Emmaus Pennsylvania puts it what is necessary for Unity between Rome and the Orthodox Churches Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics see the answer to this question quite differently from the Orthodox point of view Roman Catholics would be expected to return to the Orthodox faith that the Church of Rome professed During the period before it broke from Orthodoxy and roughly the 11th century the Great Schism by contrast Rome's primary expectation of the Orthodox is that they would accept the sovereignty of the Pope over all their churches Orthodox Christians cannot accept that condition however as they would understand it to mean an abandonment of the faith that they had received from the apostles from orthodoxy's point of view it is Rome who has left the tradition of the Apostles and introduced new teachings such as papal infallibility purgatory and the Immaculate Conception not to mention unilaterally altering the Nicene Creed to add the word filioque and the Sun to the phrase concerning the procession of the Holy Spirit a term that was not in the original version of the Creed agreed upon by Rome with the Eastern Church churches make no mistake Orthodox Christians genuinely desire Union with Roman Catholics but it is the same Union that they Desire with all Christians and indeed with all human beings Union in the Orthodox Christian faith given by Christ once for all to the apostles there is much we have in common and can affirm together but there are also significant differences that continue to make Unity not yet possible in discussing the opinions of Orthodox toward Catholics father Gregory Jensen of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church USA has written there is to be sure a pervasive anti-catholic mentality among Orthodox Christians denying this is pointless and foolish and I have called Orthodox Christians on it both publicly and privately that said I don't think that Orthodox anti-catholicism is institutional while individual Orthodox Christians laity and clergy are guilty of this sin it is not the Orthodox Church as such which is anti-catholic any more than the Catholic Church as such is responsible for say the sacking of Constantinople to pull an orthodox favorite just like in Catholicism ISM there is a spectrum in Orthodoxy of acceptance of the other side however it must be said that the voices in opposition to Broad scale acumenism are louder and more numerous on the Orthodox side than the Catholic side in this video I have touched very little on some of the biggest causes of division between Orthodoxy and Catholicism that will still come up today things like the filioque and the supremacy and infallibility of the Pope not to mention the overall distaste that many Orthodox Churches have for the Eastern Catholic churches those are of course key things to understand if you want to know what divided these churches and what may still be impeding them unifying despite there being such a call for it especially from the Catholic side I'll discuss those more in a future video don't forget to go over to useful charts Channel and watch Matt's video there on Christian denominations

Channel: Ready to Harvest

Views: 265,493

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Id: CIpVLA-jZeE

Length: 20min 47sec (1247 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 17 2023