We Rate Your Cards Tier List | Commander Clash Podcast 79

all right hello and welcome everyone back to the commander Clash podcast and today we have a special one first off I'm here the codfather uh I am back on the podcast uh Tomer is traveling today and uh more importantly our topic today is uh we will rate your card so we have asked you the esteemed listeners viewers subscribers what cards you want our opinions on and uh we got a good list uh so joining me today is Seth better known as saffron Olive welcome background welcome welcome back Richard good to have you back hello hello uh we have Phil Brewer's kitchen how are you doing Phil hey yo excited to talk trash on some of your car it's not all of them are great I'm gonna gently provide feedback uh crimp the Asian Avenger how are you doing I'm pretty good excited to look over these cards uh like you know like and talk about them with all y'all all right so uh last week we put out a call on the community tab if you want to uh talk to us or check out what's what's going on on the YouTube Community tab or the MTG goldfish Commander Channel we we posted a question and uh this this episode was actually suggested by one of our fans on the other podcast that said you should make an episode with Richard dunks and all your favorite cards and I'm like wow okay I can do that uh my grades may be a bit harsh on this podcast it turns out it may be true uh but we will we will see uh so as a reminder our grading system uh S Auto include staple uh a really good overall B good in certain decks C average and D have a specific reason to run them uh so we we are we are waiting for generic power so keep that in mind and uh with that away we go so first off wookie 595 suggested okum adversary now Oakham adversary is a four drop 2-3 green creature death touch when it deals combat damage to a player draw a card but it costs two less if your opponent controls a green permanent itself gave it a c Kerman Richard gave it a d we're not high on this card what do we think Seth it's it's not that bad I think the problem people maybe miss about this card is a two minute two three death touch that draws your card when deals combat damage that's not bad the problem is you need to have a green permanent on your opponent's side of the battlefield which means if your game goes like a typical commander game and people are spending the early turns casting rampant gross and cultivates and things like that this probably isn't coming down on turn two and later in the game it's just not that impactful it can block get blocked or it can uh be killed by a removal spell so I feel like it's even though it has that cause reduction it's a little bit too slow for me to really want to play it even though there's a lot of green decks in Commander Phil you actually play green sometimes yeah but I think about this card I mean it's cool if you play it for two but that's probably not happening unless I have a bird of paradise or like a Mana dog they're probably gonna ramp with rampant growth or something if they play Green and then for four Mana you can just play a tall ski and for two Mana I mean it's not in green but I think a bear for strix is just I mean the two three body doesn't really do anything and if you draw one card of it that's probably what the card does for you and then you can just play barefoot straight there it's just not really they're just on a generic power level I just probably would find a better better card for this lunch this requires the opponent to control it yeah that's terrible this is going nowhere right like like wait you know I'm there you're gonna pay full retail for this but like this is a at its best right assuming that somebody goes turn one any one of the green things that I I despise and then I'm also somehow in this weird Universe playing Green uh dude I don't know this card doesn't do enough two years ago you asked me I would say this was like a b or c and I actually put it in a significant number of decks and it never did anything ever uh like Phil in the SAT said a green permanent on turn two means your opponent had to play like turn one Mana dork right and if they don't then you're you're out of luck and even if that's the case you need to hit at least twice if you hit only once it's available straight it's not good enough right like you need to hit multiple times so so much has to go right for this card to do anything useful uh I think it's just simply not worth it I I wouldn't even like I would cut it like okay if my pod had dedicated elves players like all the time every week if I played out this is useless for me right okay yeah yeah yeah can you give a mandatory somehow like it works if you dousing dagger like dancing dog is a two drop you give him a green plant it like kind of works but then uh display the dagger right so like they have a death touch with a Dallas could get somewhere really but really like is the reward high enough that you're gonna play a two card combo to make this card work like are you gonna play cards it gives your opponent green things so you can get a like slightly better video yeah and then they can jump look that's a No-No right like uh yeah this this one this one's tough so we're we're settling on the group average of D until uh Wookie destroys us in a game and it shows us otherwise yeah yeah all right next up uh demolishment Demolisher man sire of stagnation uh it draws cards can stop your playing lands and eats away at the library it's a sixth drop in Demir it's a five seven when a land enters the battlefield under an opponent's control that player Exiles the top two cards of his or her Library you draw two cards is this demure colorless Sphinx's Revelation uh Sphinx's consecrated uh like Richard it has the void it's devoid it's colorless okay but it costs blue and black to cast so I I rated this kind higher than you guys right you and Richard David Phil and myself gave it an a Seth gave it a c [ __ ] gave it a b so we're all over the place on this one I might be a little biased because last weekend somebody played this I think on turn four and then protected it for I think the whole game I guess in turn 8 or something that was a blood vibe they drew so many cards like sure it's expensive but if you ramp it out when people still make land drops you're drawing like six cards every rotation and they I it is very expensive but I can't I lost so hard to it that I can't give it a look great yeah I kind of like this car this is kinda I I might want to try and play this some more actually it was so cool and people are going to play lens and if they ramp who played it or play this with an attempt attempt with Discovery and then people are greedy get the lens and you draw that just really guarantees No One's Gonna Take Your attempt with Discovery Opera I think and that game even I who always takes the land I don't think I would do it if there was a siren stagnation y'all need tripping this is a trap card it's a trap card it reads like a good magic card but when you play it it does nothing it's like imagine if consecrated Sphinx wasn't guaranteed to draw you a card imagine if your opponent's like hey I already got 10 lands on the battlefield I'm not gonna play my lands while you have this out that's what the version of consecrated Sphinx this is It's I gave it a c and I thought I was being generous I was thinking it could maybe be honestly in the like unplayable category it's just too easy to play around it it comes down you would actually miss a land drop if someone had a sire stagnation on the battlefield well I mean okay so in the field it comes down on turn four then probably not the entire might actually be good but if this has come down sure yeah I got enough lands to do what I need to do I'll just not play lands until like like why why would I wait a minute no you would just play lands into it wait wait you don't have a 100 not miss land drops even on turn eight ballistics like you guys better be removing it because I've played my lands I'm rapping so y'all get mad at me for not paying one for aristic study or S percent no but you're just gonna drop useless to land number nine into his higher stagnation that makes no sense I don't know I mean like if this this is okay I don't know if I'm just dropping all my lands into this either I'm doing if I do it I clearly have a plan and I am begrudgingly doing it and I it is painful but like yeah like I mean this card if it comes down to the perfect point of the game like any obviously any turn before six it's really good uh and then you know like on turn six just on six I think this is still a fine card it is kind of bad after like everybody has eight lands though it's like like it is kind of bad I don't believe you I believe if I drop this in a casual game turn ten oh yeah so like if this was like six Mana no one makes a land drop the rest of the game it is still insanely good right like if you stop everyone because they think they're playing around you by sitting at six Mana like I think you've you've got a moral Victory there right like let's keep playing lands into this and remove this this is like a sphinx is this is like a consecrated Sphinx in my mind how often does it consecrated its thing song like whenever you play consecrated Sphinx that is the target for whatever removal anyone has the power consecrated Sphinx is you probably get the first two cards out of it unless you know your opponents are untapped and have instant speed removal you're guaranteed the two cards with Cyrus stagnation that same line doesn't work your opponent is untaps draws their card Castle removal spell and then makes their land drop so I think I don't know what would you rank consecrated Sphinx I think this has to be it has to be at least a tier and maybe two tiers below consecrated swings or else nothing makes sense foreign yeah in this case you could actually play field of Ruin because everybody would yeah I guess so this is the only way yeah uh all right next up we have Ben Hensley suggesting white counter spells and uh he listed a bunch I'm gonna give Don charm the nod here so don charm is wanted a white uh instant choose one prevent all combat damage should be dealt this turn regenerate Target creature or counter Target spell that targets you ratings Phil and Seth and myself all A's cream B we like Donald Trump you guys like Donald Trump that much dang like I mean I think it's funny I think it's funny to have a white counterspell but like this is the most aggressively like like oh see this is like a lower beat this is like a lower beat it's so hilariously average some upsides I do like them randomly fog somebody it comes in at a good rate right I like that counter Target spell that targets you obviously that's that's amazing when there's like some silly stuff going on in Commander but this is like I don't know I don't like this card it just it doesn't it feels like I have to respond and hold on to this card for a lot longer than I need to than if I just had a generically good card right like I would be sitting here holding on to this card for aha I'm gonna get you I mean okay if you're here to get somebody and I gotcha moment this is an S2 card like I love gotcha cards but like other than that this is it just if objectives you can always just follow it's no Mana tie that's for sure I mean why would you want a vlog like this board wipe instead of vlogging oh Seth actually yeah no Richard actually won a game because he [ __ ] with this so that's why I respect it so much I think I never played it so far but I think in every deck I keep like three to four slots for just generic control like counter spell and stuff hey if you play a Don Trump you will have something like regenerate a creature can come in super handy for can save you the game and I guess if somebody wants to cruel ultimatum you or something what's the most for someone who do cruel ultimatum on you right I mean it against me right like you you got me but like you probably are you've been holding on this cup for way too long Richard knows this best because he's skeleton lord regenerate Target creature doesn't is it's just there's two modes on here because every board watches can't be regenerated after like 2004. so like really it's a fog and maybe a counter Target spells that targets you that so the thing about this card is the counter mode is horrible like the counter Mode's in B like worse than me however I uh believe that fox are like super underrated in commander and I like fogs that won't get stuck in my hand Fox cycle Fox that do something else so I ranked on Trump pretty highly because I think fog is good and then the other two modes are the give me a little bit of flexibility so I'm not just sitting there with a foggle game I can yes I know a lot of rats you know you get around regenerating Asian but you can still regenerate in combat a targeted removable spell so there's still value to be had there and then I assume like one in a hundred games you're gonna use the counter spell mode like incredibly infrequently that'll come up but sometimes Crim will actually have the crew ultimatum and it's going to be hilarious but I like fights with flexibility but but yeah it is two modes right we agree that it has two modes there there is no regenerating a Terminator combat like Exiles or can't be regenerated then not combat though dude you can just save stuff in common yeah you can either generate in combat yes like you can't use this as your protection spell soul like if you're playing Voltron you could try using this but I'd rather just phase out um but you know as a fog that you can use to regenerate a key card in a pinch that's good if they like I don't know deflecting Palm you or something like yes you can use this but the fog I think is the strong point of this card I I am with Seth that fog is really underrated I think I've concluded that fog is good so just two Mana white fog I think is actually like at least a b right and then you add some of this stuff on top I think it's actually really good because it's it's all color shifted stuff too right you don't expect the fog out of the white deck you don't expect the counter spell out of the white deck so I think it's actually pretty good as like you're you're kind of like answer card I think it's a c as a fog because fogs are okay here and there and all the added stuff make it a b and a though yo I actually play dodge you're being wild right now okay uh Howard Robertson uh red extra turn spells so I've chosen final Fortune it's red red instant take an extra turn after this at the end of that turn you lose the game so not in any like combo where you like sun dialed or something to like get extra turns and end the turn but just as a finisher like you you do the combat oh your final Fortune you do more combat like is this is this ever playable no no well okay so that not in Commander the problem is in Commander your opponents have 120 life in 1v1 formats there are situations where you can like use this as an extra combat step and actually kill your opponent that's a lot harder to do when you have to deal 120 damage to your opponents actually take them out of the Game Plus why wouldn't you just play an extra combat step effect that isn't going to make you lose if something goes wrong so I was I had it as a I had it as a c because I was thinking of like oh it's really gonna know Becca like there's certain decks where it's like actually legit but if we're not including any of those like combos or synergies just as a fair card still unplayable no chance you should ever put this in any deck for any reason I am simply speaking of it as I when I re-rated this card it was as if there were Combos and all this other stuff I would not just simply play final Fortune YOLO for an extra turn yeah it only made it to C right yeah it peeped at Sea with combos yeah uh so here's the thing I created a d because I thought you would combo with it and I don't like extra transfers if you use this just to get in there for more I guess see for kind of cute if you pull it off right it's like literally the point of your deck right yes that kind of stuff that was so weird I've tried I've tried chance for Glory in the way our viewers suggested it did not did not work okay the chance for Glory you get them you take an extra turn so you take an extra turn in the middle the turn order right so like you don't even like take an extra turn at the right time and then you try to like do something but yeah you probably do that Sundial to keep you from dying yeah even though it's a pretty dicey proposition here you're not just jamming this right like like your turn is not that good like extra turns are only scary when you start chaining them together like if you just did an extra turn you just gave like five Mana one drawn like one combat or something like that right like it's not that crazy so you actually need to chain them together so and that like prevents that specifically because you die so you literally can't chain them together without a combo all right uh pyoter malibri open into Wonder yeah so X blue blue yep X Target creatures can't be blocked this turn until end of turn those creatures game whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player draw a card and uh blue math unblockable as alternative to Crater hoof well it's yeah masterblock would also draw a card strike someone or you get the value attack where you you hit him for a bunch and you draw a cards you you okay okay I don't know why okay so Phil's got it at Sea Seth's got a SC but rich and I got it at B right what's that gets good in what's the what's the deck where it's actually good Rogues ninjas uh fairies all the blue tempos birds sure we'll throw birds in there uh you know Titans like that load don't they don't fly anyway evasive but you have you can draw cards you see so sure the evasion may not be relevant here but then the drawing cards or but if you need the evasion and you get card draw on top of it this card is pretty darn Sweet It Is perfect it is it's the solid form of a bee it goes so well in little blue creatures little like little fairies things like that blue things that can go wide um Flyers sure to go white and then then you pay six you have to pay yes the creatures yeah so if you attack the boys but you can cast it for x equals zero to draw with every creature right so yeah no no no yeah that's not good so like the problem but this is like creature ramp right so like I'm gonna windmill Like It Go wider maybe maybe not the entire force is getting in but the creatures that matter and let's just say five creatures I do X is five I might be tapping down but it's okay I have three counter spells anyways I'm in blue so like who cares and so you just go to town and you draw it and record it to draw more free counter spells it's great but you're literally getting no discount for all the work and you even have a board like pull from tomorrow is double blue and X to just drops cards and discard a single cards mind spring double blue and X drugs cards like you're not getting any discount so all I see is like unless you really somehow can take advantage of the evasion you're just playing like a super risky version of these other cards that already exist like if you just want to draw a card service way easier ways to do that that don't require you to like have a board and not get wrapped yeah and if your birds and Rogues have evasion right what you want this for is the coveted sea monster tribal deck or something right where you have like these eight eights that have like no evasion so giving them that invasionally kill someone I gotta say if you are over valid overalling how like the Rogues and all of them are because they are very small creatures and and they don't they don't read like a Slither blade they don't actually have unblockable right so you do need to sometimes get through and and this just pushes that through right like and like let's just say this or like even merfolk and then you can resolve some kind of like big combat like like dealing the damage usually results in something with Rogues right let's just say this example Rogue class I get to now hit you with all my Rogues for sure my ground units included so I I think that unless like and if you already have unblockable creatures that's great you get to now draw cards on top of it I okay I just don't this is why this is bad in a low to the ground little blue creatures deck isn't it crazy oh good question okay and and like oh I I there's a reason why I love this card I I think it is good in little blue creatures it is so I got it say something though so the way I think about this is you play this and let's say You cast it for x equals for Swinging with four creatures so you completely tapped out you're the creatures as well because they attacked then you tell the table I just drew four cards attacked somebody to make them angry at me and I have no blockers like sure if you have a huge board if you want to get one attacker through and draw a card I think there's a card called slip through or something it's just one blue Mana drawer card Target creatures unblockable probably use this instead but but the road like think about it like Rogues ninjas fairies there's lots of things I guess for for connecting right yeah yeah and so you need to connect I have my ground units let's just say uh Thieves Guild enforcer that doesn't have flying it's a good Rogue I'm not there's no way that's like a bad Fringe Rogue right like but sometimes you just want to get it through right yeah there's a lot of Merit to this card in little blue creatures so I I can see what Crim's saying I guess like if you're an act that specifically has a bunch of creatures that care about getting a combat damage for reasons other than damage and that like super narrow slice of the the magic then I guess I can see the Merit of this card yeah but doesn't blue have like a ton of like four Mana enchantments that are like whenever I deal damage all your stuff draws like a wife damage right so you need like if you actually want to kill someone the viewer suggested this as a creator of alternative right which means a lot of forcing through damage you do realize that crater hoof also makes all your things like ten tens and that's why people die it's not because it gives them trample like if creator of just an ETV get their team trample no one would play it and that's what this card's doing I'm a Believer as far as a Bee this is not a crater hook I'm I'm clarifying that now it is not a cradle it is trampled like if you have like just some generic like seven seven or something you you give it a vision and you draw a card I think that's actually good right and if you have like two of them this is where the car gets better right you get to draw two cards you can't use slip through space right I guess I guess if you played for two if you have exactly like two pictures you're right maybe it is the C sorry these kinds of things so I I might not be the right person for this anyways all right so someone someone's gonna give us a necklace for this like Works beautifully uh oh what you literally see me play rocks if it is berries you've had your time crib it's enough okay how is it not good in little blue man okay it's I I actually with Seth and Phil on this little blue men business I don't actually believe it there I actually believe it for like some big beaters that blue has which blue typically doesn't have so it's a little awkward you have to play another color and that color usually has ways of force to damage I know I know which ones okay okay the library if they urza Saga construct tokens how often do you sit there with like this 15 15 that says literally nothing now you can sneak it in for damage and draw a card and that's a very blue thing to do okay okay I can I can buy that or like Phil said stuff with powerful I guess combat trick that's not pro blue [Laughter] scenarios yeah okay Snapback Snapback from Blake Evers uh I believe a card has always been quite good it's showing its worth in utility Snapback is a two Mana blue instant return Target creature to owner's hand it's on summoned you may remove a blue card in your hand from the game rather than paying its cost um I mean we all gave it C's Grim gave it a d ude so unsummon's bad the value I see in this card is you can't cast it when you're tapped out so I can't imagine some pretty sweet plays where like you're completely tapped out and someone goes to Alpha strike you and you're like haha you know actually a blue card Snapback which I don't think blue has other options for that I know black has like Slaughters packed and so forth I guess submerge if the right conditions are met can do that so I like that I like the the idea of the card but in general unsummoned is not something I'm in the market for uh in in Commander I'd rather just straight up pongify something like get rid of it forever so many Commander cards have powerful etbs I don't really want to return most of my opponent's creatures to their hand because then they get to reuse their their ETV ability yeah I I I I would respect it if they play it and think it's funny but it seems like I mean bouncing something is tempo and you're tossing a card away so you're at the even higher car disadvantage in kumana but I really respect it if somebody blows me out with this it's a pretty cool yeah I mean sure there's gotcha moments with this card but like Seth had originally mentioned it is an unsummoned I'm going down a card to unsummon like like oh this hurts me maybe maybe if this were like a popper thing like a like a popper commander deck sure that's fine but like in a normal commander deck I would never play this uh it is it is way way too costly at exiling something and at two Mana I would literally just play on summon I think actually Papa and Papa Commander I don't know how many people play this I haven't but I can't imagine you draw a lot of cards and the only way to leverage this is if you have so much disposable cards that you could say bounce my own Commander exercise something do something broken I don't think you can get away with playing this fairly you gotta have some plan I think yeah if you have ample card draw like maybe you play open until Wonder uh if you have apple card draw this card is actually very strong I think because in 2023 you know very rarely you run into cards right you do run out of Mana uh so and I play capsize cap size has buyback the unsummond is actually pretty good like even if you just unsummon one thing so if you have ample cards that you can throw away to fuel this like if you play uh maybe not open to wonder but like buy enough that's like stuff like that like the the tasky effects and you have lots of little creatures I think this could be seaworthy I mean b word like I think it's underrated I think the free aspect of it people gloss over even though it's pitch a card I think the other thing you got to consider is on someone's a one Mana spell so you're not really saving a ton by casting it for free at the cost of the card like they're like oh he's Tapped Out does it have a blue matter of time to get him right yeah no that's that's true but can you just leave up one Mana it's like you gotta leave a five Mana to cast it or is an unsummon or a vapor smell I don't know Seth get that damage I've seen you uh not able to leave up one Mana you know yeah that's that's family that is fair speaking speaking of free spells uh Andrew chug force of Despair solid blowout uh blowout spell so Force the despair one black black instant if it's not your turn you may Exile a black card from your hand rather than pay its costs destroy all creatures that enter the battlefield this turn and this card's little underrated something from gave it an A D this one we're all over the place line I would like to hear why this is playable from okay so force it is bear it has a timing restriction but it can blow up every single creature that came into play during the turn so this can be killing multiple things potentially for free plus even though it's three Mana because of its pitch mechanic you don't have to leave Mana up so even though that timing restriction exists we're just talking about with Snapback how you have so many cards in hand these days in Commander it's not that punishing to have to pinch a card the problem is having enough Mana to cast all the cards that you draw this plays right into that so I think this is a card that people are just sleeping on because even though you have that timing restriction of half human gases to turn the creatures come into play it can easily be a two for one or in some scenarios against like token decks like a 10 for one so I I think this card's actually really good I I think this card is act like actually just severely underrated just like Seth had mentioned like I don't know why this doesn't get played more I mean I don't even have to get the free mode to love this card I will straight up leave three Mana up just to blow you up like on your turn like this is a blowout waiting to happen and it has happened numerous times it's an instant speed sweeper it's an instant speaker I I am I'm sorry but in mono black I am willing I I know that I am like if I can get someone out with an instant speed sweeper it is let's just control your commander it's free I would still give it a d really timing restriction is so happy like you don't just fire off your spot removal willy-nilly right like let's say someone actually spews a bunch of tokens on the board you don't know that's coming for you like if it's coming for you yes kill it but it may be going to your opponents right it could be doing any other things right it could eat a rat from the next player over right you don't want to just fire off this removal just because like whatever right like you only want to do it if they're attacking you or you know it's coming or whatever so I think the timing restriction makes it super unplayable like I do not want to let's say someone combos off dumps 10 tokens like why would you fire this off like you just made an enemy for no reason right just let them have the tokens someone else can deal with it maybe they're not attacking you like there's just so many variables here that I would not just want a two for one myself get rid of their board and that's like the best case scenario what are they just like one creature you're gonna like two for one of yourself so it is it is potentially a free like a a free spot removal spell that can go bigger right sure let's not call it a board wife you're pitching two cars having restriction on your spot I'm okay with straight up just leaving up three I this is perfect for my style of deck right like I would say sorcery speed like this this time of restriction is much worse than sorcery speed you know how like if you get spot removal you make it like this is useless what am I gonna do with this right like this is kind of similar to that right like the Restriction makes it almost unplayable Richard's talking about making enemies does kind of ring a little bit true for me like yeah you don't want to make enemies and you sometimes want your opponents to have creatures so that I think those are good points what were you gonna say Phil sorry I I rated it I rate it as it as a c so I'm between you guys because I have been blown out by this I guess blown out it doesn't is this never really rough the board but uh what Richard said is also my problem usually creatures don't have haste so creatures that enter the battlefield this turn unless they come with it don't really threaten you and if you just blow them out and sure you can do it but you can just wait and cast a boardwipe and wipe everything because they usually can't attack you with them anyways like there's no urgency in the their turn it's urgent if they like I guess combo off but that's better thanks just play a sword Supply shares if you're scared of creature combos or something I oh hug a morning let's play everything over this it is only three minutes it's pretty good yeah yeah you don't need a pitch right you can just play three manners yeah and one more than Doom blade so it's not like it's super over costed if you don't pitch to it but but you can't choose your target that your opponent just has to run into it and you say oh it is it's good now I can't really control when it's good but sometimes it's good that's even like that I can't Target okay because then that means I can't you can't hex proof me get out of here you can reanimate afterwards right so don charm beats this huh oh that's true that's true it does does it actually depends Don charm can't use that third mode right but if you play multiple creatures I still got something I I essentially got you to use your turn up and then I and I got to do who knows what like this is great in like a Super Friends deck and things like that too so I I love that all right we're gonna sell on a b here we're gonna split the difference how about you thieves auction so everything gets exiled and gets spread around the table and then you play it and then everything dies then it's a sweep but oh if I could have just guessed toxic again it is I'm gonna I'm gonna Dive by it then it is a sweeper when I need it to be right and like like when when I'm playing this card I have never had a bad time with it it's always done I can't imagine so like in in my style of decks where I'm leaving up instant speed and you're and I'm sweeping all the time your one creature will die you will eventually run out of gas we have very different definition of sweeper what that's the next podcast what does it mean what is a sweet potato I'm gonna get y'all next season this is gonna be in every Deck with black and I'm gonna get you so many times and it's gonna feel so good all right I'm gonna ask Editor to keep a vet trick of how many times Krim dies holding force of Despair that could be a lot who knows all right next up uh walking donut this was an interesting one that I bounced around long-term plans so long-term plans two in a blue instant search a library for a card shuffle your library put that card third from the top uh rating wise we have B's for everyone except for myself I have as an a I originally played it as D I'm all over the place when it's hard is this is this a good card is this just like demonic tutor yes ish so long-term plans is good if you have an immediate plan to get the card is my take on it like what when this card is bad is when you cast it and you literally try to wait three cards to draw it that's that's not very good the good news is blue has a lot of ways that you can go three cards deep in your library and there's some of the most played cards in the format stuff like brainstorm in Ponder in pre-ordain in that case this is just a unconditional tutor which I believe is the only one in mono blue like blue can tutor for spells but there's nothing that can grab a creature or a land or the other things that you need uh so in that scenario I think it's actually really powerful so if you play like a combo or you like long-term plans Ponder get the card that I want do my thing then I think it's actually awesome so I usually don't play tutors but also last weekend I saw this plate and I thought actually that is fine so I for example I like tutors that have a little bit of working around to do alike so I opened for the dominar dominaria remastered sealed I played I opened a worldly tutor of improved Twitter and a gamble which is not good and limited but the only one of those I would probably Place gamble because at least it's not sure that you get the card and I think with long-term plans it's the same that you kind of feel feel clever if you pull it off same with like minusing Vivian or something some work around around to get something out of the tutor it just feels more rewarding Obviously good tutors are better but uh I I like this one I might try this especially if I can dig down into to the card right away uh I would argue you don't want to do anything that you put it third from the top and it is oh still a really it's a blue unconditional tutor so what what so what is it not good at right you can't like oh my God I need a wrath end of turn tutor untap rap right so you like that's something about pure tutor allows you to do that you can't do long-term plans but essentially what you're saying is like three turns from now uh or if you end up turn this like two two more turns from now get the best card from your deck or like whatever your proactive plan is get it into your hand and I think that's good enough right like you know you can't like put a rat there usually right but you can get whatever your combo is you can get card draw you can get generic answers whatever and just draw it naturally I think that's that's good right this is this is a blue tutor that can tutor anything like you cannot do this how much Mana is it I would rather wow it is nice that it's instant that's why I like it uh Mystic it is tutor number two for me right behind mystical um though you're getting whatever you want I I think that usually whatever you want in this color is gonna be an instant or sorcery so whether it's a game-winning one or a reactive one so I just think of it as the like number two blue tutor so it's okay if you want the Bluetooth I mean actually there's better ones now like you know whatever solve the puzzle or whatever but like that one's sorcery speed whereas this is instant and you're in the color where a third from the top is could still just pretty much be in your hand so uh where you're gonna draw enough cards so I I think this is solid I don't think it's an a I think it's it's nice that you can tutor whatever at instant speed two turns two turns is an eternity in the mid or late game of Commander like under three I think it's fine to cast this and be like okay I'll get something I'll get my consecrated Spanx because that's gonna be good or whatever like that's that's super fine but I'm like turn six or turn seven I'm not convinced that the card that you tutor for is gonna be the card that you want to be drawing two turns in the future once everyone does their things you also can't fetch in the meantime yeah no ramping no fashion this may have made that happen to me where I stacked off of my deck waiting for some plan and then two turns later I'm like what happened to my car there must be a bug like oh I fetched oh yeah you actually do that on a Clash I I think I've done this multiple times where I was like laid out this brilliant planet and now I draw the combination of my genius and they're like what the hell is this I shoveled the plan was too long term yeah you need some short-term plans short-term plan second from the top I'm here for that I really like this card still so our average rating is a b uh you you've dragged down by a but I think 2023 card draw man this might as well be in your hand it's pretty if you have a top option this way right right it should be pretty in your hand how much oh is it cheap it's like under four dollars yeah and you can get artifacts so blue yeah I actually care about artifacts you can get artifacts or sorceries they're they're better ones you can get Hull breacher before it was banned oh breaker that's uh that's a good one uh all right Metroid two three four five six city of Traders uh we know that ancient tomb is really good is city of Traders a legitimate card so City Traders is a land if you play a land sacrifice city of Traders tap add two colorless to your Mana pool ah no yeah you can't do it it's to the Restriction of having a second when you play another land is I think just impossible to actually work around in Commander uh in in formats like Legacy this is a staple but the whole idea of decks that play it is I'm gonna play something so impactful that it wins me the game so even if I got no Mana I don't care because that one thing's gonna do it you're gonna uh like sneak attack and use the sneak attack to just immediately win the game so you don't care if you gotta sacrifice all your lands I don't see a way to actually do that in Commander the value you're gonna get out of that two Mana is a really high cost you might be thinking oh it's like a two Mana colorless ritual and that's kind of true but it costs you a land drop and we've talked about before hitting your land drops is so important so I don't see a way to make this work in commander in literally any bag I'd love to be proven wrong but is there any can you guys see any way that this could work white decks with ketchup ramp oh but you're gonna you're just gonna break even maybe by getting back deploy you deploy like one of you are like permanent catch-up ramps like uh like the four drop or whatever right like smothering tithe or something no no I mean smaller tie the birds the one that checks lands every turn oh yeah or something yeah yeah but even though it is very sus um green decks that can reanimate This and like have additional uh land drops so stuff like say Crucible plus Azusa or something and you just keep playing it I don't know if green has trouble getting Mana though that you need to go through Hoops to do this uh who can you turn off you blood no you can't blood move those can you turn off the stability or you can like stifle it but then it's gonna happen the next land you play so you can like do things that get around it temporarily for one turn but that's not really all that valuable that's being stage itself that doesn't you just play basic man now you're gonna end up stacking your thespian stage two I think you made the problem worse does it oh no okay it doesn't work wait wasn't there like in Black enchantment or something did it remove all non-landers oh no yeah blood moon like blood moon or anything like that I try to find well you you've been in normal land but you got the two Mana out of it like so you got one turn of extra mana and then you made everyone hate you with a blood moon or a contamination or whatever right but because it's like Legacy yeah Manner and then they win right so yeah plus I mean it's also like 350 bucks so I don't know if there's anything that's going to make it worth that cost uh either for us well is it worth it to just like land land city of Traders explosive vegetation like something like that like you just use it as literally a ritual but that ritual gets you into like better ramp but then it does not work with the enchantment it just removes all abilities so uh so I feel like something removed all non-manner abilities from a land but I I could be wrong because that was the card I thought it did I don't know if there's one that you wanna have a two card combo to make a ancient tomb he's not even into life Asia tomb adds up you can actually Cobble it and fix it but I like I'd rather just dousing dagger and hit someone like way better do you even come out ahead in the explosive vegetation exchange so you go land drop land drop city of Traders explosive vegetation you'll have four lands yeah you start turn four with four lands as opposed to starting turn four with three lands okay no it was was it worth the card Idol though yeah all right you come out ahead and I guess you come out with the head you're you're explosive vegetation still did something you essentially got one land with it yeah or four lands smothering Thai then never play a land the rest of the game because we played Cyrus stagnation there you go it's all land drops uh okay so uh we are all these on this we couldn't we couldn't break it so Metro is two three four five six and you can break it let us know yeah I'd love to know how to make it work yeah all right this one's an interesting one really silly four four five six Hull breach uh so not not whole breacher Hull breach uh so Hall Bridge red and a green choose one destroy Target artifact destroy Target enchantment destroy Target artifact and enchantment at sorcery speed uh so a two-for-one Phil gave it a b Seth and Krim gave it a c I gave it a d this is just okay right like this is pretty average is this good enough anymore I mean it's I mean two for one for two very different types I think like you you get a good two for one out of it I don't know what else to say it's just solid I think it's instant right two Mana instant sorcery oh it's sorcery If This Were instant I would probably like it more yeah yes but but because it's just sorcery speed I don't is this good enough anymore I think it's a fake two for one I think like there's one thing you want to destroy and something you just like tag along like you would normally use removal on it and like it doesn't really count as a two for one I don't think like you're just randomly killing me something but you didn't care about it so it's sorcery speed one for one removal that like kind of looks like a two for one uh so I don't like it and yes there will be some scenario where you're like oh and you destroy an artifact and enchantment but I think it's very rare that they come up at the same time and then I'd I'd rather just play it instant speed like I'd rather play disenchant than hold reach just instance be destroy enchantment or artifact for me it's just not flexible enough like I want my removal to be chaos War for Beast Within or uh the enchantment that turns the thing into a forest like just hitting a hard Factor enchantment not not really not really doing it for me especially at sorcery speed the same is for the white one what is a white card that used to be a staple you Exile two if you cast it during your main phase because you just you want flexible removal they can hit anything so I don't know that's that's I don't think it's a bad card it just isn't quite flexible enough for 2023 Commander for me I guess the like the one thing that's nice though is that it is like in those colors I mean how much versatile removal are we talking about here right because like most of that stuff in those colors or that's two those are the two you would naturally then you would be also running the best enchantment and artifact removal to you have like Vandal blasts Hull breacher um progress you have things like uh Rex age slime you have like all kinds of things to deal with this stuff so and I guess because you know what yeah it's Pro like you know what this might be closer to a d because like the the cards like wreck sage and acidic slime and all that work better in green because it being a creature is probably way better than it being an instant or sorcery yeah because like there's like an actual benefit to it being a creature yeah because yeah I mean you you basically tutor them up with uh yeah with the green sun Zenith or something like that right I will also if you want an actual underrated card that fits in the space cloths well uh it's one of the the Forgotten Wills from Adventures in the Forgotten realm but it's a two red and green in X for an instant that uh if you have your commander you get both but you get to choose X damage to each creature without flying or destroy up to X Target artifacts underwear enchantments so for a little bit extra Mana you get a ridiculous amount of flexibility and instant speed so I would probably play that over uh hold reach as well that's an instant you said yeah they I definitely if it would be an instant I would still say two men are two for one even though Richard is very correct that you one is just collateral damage usually but uh yeah sorcery is kinda for this effect especially if you want to wait to get another Target out of it yeah and I thought it was an instant sorry it's uh still a c though two Mana two for one can't be that bad vegan Economist or a vacation ghostly prison is an over 62 times more decks than EDH wreck but I think is less impactful overall uh so orification four Mana white enchantment whenever a creature deals damage to you put a gold counter on it each creature the gold counter on it is a wall in addition to its other types one orification Leaves play remove all gold counters from All Creatures Middle School we thought this was the most broken card I've ever seen in my life yeah I still haven't really not anymore because Krim gave it a c Phil will accept give it a B I give it an a that that is one of the problems you have to take the hit but the bigger problem I have with it is you want your opponents to die in a game of Commander what ghostly prison does is says you have to attack other people well orification does it says you can't attack attack anyone like once you hit me you can't attack anyone so I think the real value of ghostly prison it's not just that it's redirecting like preventing damage to you but it's redirecting that damage to your opponent so I think that's the aspect of ghostly prison that orification is missing wait how does it not do the same redirect right they they can't attack you so they attack someone else to get their combat in well if they attack you and just like well they can't attack you once right oh so you're just okay so you're just thinking they're not gonna attack you because they don't want their stuff to become a wall exactly so then since they want their combat triggers they'll just hit other people so it's like ghostly prison except they can hit you once right also they can hit you once and then like remove the orification and like murder you afterwards or something like that right but it's like slightly worse ghostly prison but go to sleep number two okay I just bumped it down to a c I guess I have this I have the card in my trade binder from way back when because as a kid I also thought this was insane but if it goes away the people the people the creatures are not Defenders anymore right so it's a close difference okay next next one if this is a B I bumped it down to C but if it's an a what is no mercy that's pretty much the same but saying if creatures deal damage to you they get destroyed so yes but no mercy straight up kills it like yeah that's way better it is way better hence they're both A's wow I would say that this is like a c maybe trending up to a b but like like No Mercy is a solid a like like that you will lose your what do you rate ghostly prison is my class hey hey let's go uh about an a yeah okay I mean so so this is a significantly worse than ghostly prison you wouldn't considered this ghostly Prison number two I would well that's because when I whenever I've played ghostly prison I number two is is whatever the blue one is yeah you're not in those colors you're not a Crim deck yeah oh well then so then what why did you feel like you gotta If You're Gonna Play cards like this you gotta go full lock right you gotta You Gotta Be You Gotta like like you know whatever a pillow Force safety you got the five-man enchantment One Superior safety well that does need enchantments I don't I mean I will be as Fair like that's a step below a step below where I'd put ghostly prison I think I'll try this card like I think like this conversation has me intrigued enough I've never played it before but this conversation has me intrigued enough to try it especially if I'm the deck that has Enchantment synergies Where I can benefit like I have an enchantress or something to draw a card off it or whatever if there's an enchantment synergies then then maybe but I just realized no hold on I don't even like ghostly prison that much it's like a b Grim just wants to kill everything yeah like I I just I play azorious yeah I always put ghostly prison and propaganda into my deck right but let's say I'm not playing sorry I'm just playing like white X then that means I just put orification and go see President of my deck now I didn't know this card existed before it was brought to my attention I'm like what this card exists I'm like it's close enough like yes it's not as good as ghostly person but to me this was like four Mana no one touched me for a really long time right like people will just ignore me and not hit me with their stupid tutu Ninjutsu whatever and opened into wonder whatever me either okay with going back in did it hit you again by the way I don't know actually I think the news oh yeah yeah but regardless I mean I don't know I don't even that's because I've never unless I'm like a full-on stack stack or something like that I didn't like prison effects to begin with like like like as in ghostly prison propaganda those those are like just I would rather just kill your creature because if you pay the two which usually will because the decks I play you will want to pay the two to hit me I will rather you just not hit me at all and remove that option and just you know blow up all the stuff so I've never liked prison effect so I think if if I think ghostly prison and propaganda are bees then this is a c egg combos with seashragon [Laughter] [Laughter] another controversial card we have here is mirror made from Etten one of my favorite cars wondering what you think I have it in any of my blue decks especially Locust God uh mirror made is a three Mana one blue blue uh enchantment you may have it enter the battlefields copy of any artifact or enchantment on the battlefield and uh Seth gave it a B I gave it a c Phil and cream gave it an a that's really like mirror made so scarf I think mirror made I I wouldn't go as far as and just play it in every blue deck for Value but I also wouldn't just play like a clone in most blue decks for Value uh I want a specific plan for it so for me mirror made it's great if I'm in artifact or enchantment theme deck especially an enchantress theme style deck where this is triggering my Synergy so that's uh that's my beat good for those decks in specific but I'm not sure I don't know do you guys just play this as like a clone essentially like oh someone's gonna play something good that's artifact or enchantment and copy it it's it's not just like a if it were a clone like when you say it like a clone it sounds like you know like hey I need I need to have something right but this copies anything and in in it copies the two types that are the most like common in Commander where there's oh at its floor I'll get like a Mana Rock right like that is at its lowest so I paid three Mana for a Mana Rock fine whatever I'm not actually actively trying to that I'm not trying to do that but like mirror maid is good enough to where I will probably always have a Target and I've been this I've definitely done this copying my counterbalance to have two counterbalances um like just for the memes because why not but like like but like this this card is genuinely just solid enough to where you can copy anything in in commander commander has so many enchantments and artifacts all the time all the time if I can play this in a ramp slot I think you might have just convinced me this is like an a-tier card if I can count this as a Mana Rock and this is one of my 10 or 12 Mana rocks because I will just assume I can snipe one with this and it's a three mana mana rack that has the upside of copying murari's wake or worm coil or a portal dyphraxia in the late game then I'm telling you then then this would be an a for me so I think you might have you might have convinced me with that argument is that absurd Richard what do you think about that idea of counting this is a Mana Rock in your deck I don't think you want one powder Stone like even if you best case so if you copy a Mana Rock you're kind of sad like a single like an Arcane signal right you want to be copying at least a soul ring and then you have a worn Power Stone and then you're still kind of sad because you're just playing one power Stone so people have Cursed Mirror right or whatever the three mana mana Rock is in red and I can get a creature right I can get a creature sure but like so like a creature is usually more impactful like I mean like the so obviously if someone plays omniscience or something you copy you're like oh my goodness right this is crazy right like this is crazy high ceiling potential but like on average if you play it on curve or something like you probably just by copying a random enchantment or artifact so I don't like it and if you copy a Mana rock it just gets wrapped away so I don't think it's particularly strong but I mean you have a purpose it gets wrath away along with any other artifact right that that's probably exactly so don't don't play it like don't play this in your ramp slot like play a burnished heart or something like play some real ramp right like don't use this as a worn Power Stone essentially right like play A skyclave Relic play a dark Steel Ingot or something right or stop using this A skyclave Relic for me it's a bit of a different thing I don't I mean you probably know this but recently I've been trying to copy or do various things with portal to forexia and recently my decks have been playing some pretty big permanence which are usually artifacts and Sean means some oh yeah actually some enchantments as well so I don't know if I played mirror mate in these decks like I usually play a clever impersonator instead because it just copies anything but uh if you pay three Mana four Mana Rock but then later you have the option to pay three Mana for another portal to forexia or what's the new crucible that plays stuff for free at the end step I guess a lot of pretty big permanence to copy or uh yeah omniscience you don't need two of them but yeah I would like to cut copy my own stuff like usually I think if you try to copy your own stuff because you actually have a plan for it then this card is really good but I think we're trying to just rely on copying your opponent's stuff I think this card is pretty weak the flexibility is all there though that's what I mean you can copy or it could copy something like you want to like double up on or it can copy something your opponents played there's so many artifacts and enchantments Richard sky scanner you know I gotta I gotta land I gotta win and I got a creature out of it how many of those do you want to copy though Grim there are a ton of artifacts and enchantments but like but uh if you're mostly getting a stignet are you happy like is it good enough in that context I mean like would I it's the same questions would I play a three mana mana Rock right and and I don't know would you yeah I would place I told you I would play sky like Sky clay bro like all these things I I would play uh like you know midnight clock yada yada right curse mirror sure uh but so would I pay three Mana just for a Mana rock yeah and this is a Mana rock that has a like a a silly ceiling right like it could be absolutely nutty and it's not hard for me to like get this back uh even like like I can otawara it back if I need to right if I find something new or there's lots of synergies with it being able to come back and clone something else this is a mirror maid that copies two if it were just like like whatever the the a two Mana copy Target artifact I probably wouldn't play it in every deck or just copy just specifically an enchantment wouldn't play it but it's because it can do either or it gives me a lot more range and it's that it's cheap enough to where it's respectable and it is actually financially cheap enough to where it's respectables I think I'm with grim I think I like the upside I think you've convinced me that the upside is enough that the floor is high enough to make it worth buying into the upside because the floor is getting a Mana Rock which I'm fine with and the ceiling is super high yeah I think that's good I think I'm not talking about a rock I think you should only play three Mana destructible man of rock so I think that's a waste of a card but one of them but what if you're gonna play I don't know what like chromatic Lantern or something right playing this I think is like just all upside you will most likely be able to cop a journal Mana Rock right and then you can it's the upside of coughing something crazy imagine uh imagine though Richard you have a Mana Rock that's it's a three mana mana Rock but if when you play at your role of D20 if you roll a 20 it's the omniscience would you play that because I think that that's what this card is High Roll potential where you could just have them pick whatever the most important games it's going nowhere right okay so I would say if you play the targets the big powerful targets yourself you play mirror mate if you just want to copy stuff play with clever impersonator you don't want to copy Mana rocks anyways and if you say oh I want to copy their bolos or something you're gonna have the blowouts with clever impersonator mirror mate is kind of cool if you play the Mana rocks and the enchantments but if you if you play it for the upside of copying something cool at least be able to copy anything uh that's that would be my tip for it three years okay we're we're at a B average here so we're aabc now so respectable card uh okay here this one's I'm actually kind of curious we're all over the place on this uh forsake the worldly from bird of Nyx one of my favorite enchantment removal uh you have to look it up two in a white I played in standard XL Target artifact or enchantment cycling two so over costed spell but it Exiles and you can cycle it is that worthy of including in your deck Phil has it at Sea cream has it is D such as a B I have it at C so Seth is a forsaken I've never seen you cast this ever since I was interested in here so B is our definition only good in certain decks I think that this is exactly like Enos like Ling deck where that's your plan and you're building around cycling this card is this card is a mate like it's an auto include like you would play every single time if that's what your deck is about how short of you are cycling Staples here I mean three Mana Exile so three Mana to Exile get rid of forever no recursion artifact or enchantment it's not good but it's not embarrassing like there would be like let's say you're playing a cycling deck most of the time you're gonna cycle this but I think probably like some reasonable percentage at the time you will cast this to deal with something it's not like completely uncastable is like too much for you to just like randomly include right like two minutes in Commander I have never seen this it's like very narrow I mean I think this is an example of why ah B is such a weird a weird ranking on our scale but like yeah so you wouldn't play this in a cycling deck would you like two Vander cycling is a lot do we have enough one man I would I would play it in the cycling deck so so I and is a cycling deck white that's the other question yeah it's Jessica yeah it's got some good White cards that have cycling but okay so so either this is a d or a B because it's in a specific deck but that deck is so specific so zero right it is literally just cycling other than that Mike I Seth maybe the good times you're remembering or when this was in standard are you sure that that isn't because do we ever play with some standard really yeah yeah this was like main deckable as like no more than a two of it definitely in a controlled X to deal with like you know uh uh uh whatever the seven Mana thingy that the artifact that brings back creatures it makes them four fours oh I got feral gift yeah yeah God Pharaoh's gift that thing other than that I don't really think I want to play this in Commander right there's better things I could be doing like example one that you love playing is you know uh the gift right the the three three elephant gift thingy uh unexpected elephant that's just what I call that card so I I actually don't know magic cards by their real name should I just know them by the silly names I've given it um so unexpected elephant uh whatever the gift thingy is like it needs to hit more than just an artifact or enchantment in white I expect a lot more out of white because they have such good answers so but the thing is though if you're the cycling deck so does not want to play this in a specific deck or sorry the general deck Seth would you play this in a general deck oh outside no it's a it's a d it's a it's a hard D It's A Hard D if you're not around cycling I mean yeah you probably include this right okay okay but oh yeah because this is just like can you cycle away this could just kind of cars for two mana and call it good like just playing unconditional just plain unconditional card like for the same amount of Mana you could be playing a card that does not have a condition on it like a general gift or something like let's say you have generous gift but yeah so you can cycle it away into something else right like you don't want removal at all ah is cycling ever useful in Commander so yeah cycling is useful they're they're definitely times when like I cycle a Triumph like I have no cars in hand I topped like a Triumph I cycle it to hoped it so there is there is some value to having cycling attached to a card although cycling is also just going away because mdfcs right like that's essentially like cycling except you just forego the randomness of it and actually just have a spell yeah hmm so as that as like we get more mdfcs cycling is there any is there any card you play with cycling outside of triumphs like I don't know I can't think of any examples discount the lands discounts [Applause] like the decree cycle is just so good right like yeah shark typhoon it technically says cycling but you're making a creature when you cycle it so it's a little cheaty like I can't think of too many cards that I play in or any that I play in Commander for the the the purpose of cycling away like are there outside of the decree cycle maybe like a chroma's Vengeance gets love here and there right like that's that's about it unless you see a dedicated cycling deck because because you know what like ain't nobody playing like renewed Faith right like unless they're in a cycling should never be the main mode of the cut right that's the whole purpose of side thing to cycle it if you don't need it to compete with but yeah too much right like yeah like theoretically you should see a lot of play right because it's like conditional cards where if you don't need them you cycle them away it's perfect right but in realities they're overcasted and the cycling is also expensive so you might still just play a good card if it was one Mana would you play it how much would that be rating if it was one man of cycling no that's not enough more Mana generous gift with like cycling one oh yeah like play it oversight overages the flexibility is not worth an extra Mana okay also with generous gifts if I cycle it I might as well blow up my own land for a block or something like it's so desperation mode if I have to say like cycle this that's true better things to do with the actual card I think all right we have a super spicy card coming up here uh our ratings before I tell you the card is Bill a Seth D Richard s so we're all over the place here guided passage I love this card and always love seeing people's reaction to the first sentence in the text box so a guided passage teamer green blue red so three Mana value sorcery reveal cards in your library and opponent chooses from among them a creature card a land card a non-creature a non-land you put the chosen Cards into your hand then Shuffle okay is this not a three-man or Draw Four who might as well the last one is draw non-creature non-land it's one okay so drop so three Mana draw three yeah right okay I guess you are again is this not a three like it is so I think the problem is you need bad cards to make your deck function so here's how I imagine this working is you play this you get a basic land you get a Mana dork and you get a signature or whatever your worst Mana rock is is that worth perfect okay well if that's where the that's not good I actually how is that good I actually thought Richard was gonna come with a very different argument that I might have bought which is the politicking that you can cast this and be like we need a wrath for the table if you can give me the Wrath like that would be the one reason I would consider playing this card like we need a we need a a Blasphemous act I'm gonna cast this give me the Blasphemous act in you know a couple other decent cards and we'll make this work but I don't think drawing your three worst cards is worth it it's a failure of deck buildings if you draw cards off on your deck and you're like wow what trash I'm like wow okay okay Richard Richard is it a failure on deck building if a I didn't draw birds of paradise on turn one like every every that's not my fault I didn't draw it on turn once right and and your deck if it's green it's loaded right with manadoric sure I like like come on that's like saying a costume Sphinx is bad because I may draw like six Mana dorks off the top right you're like I don't know that's in your deck right like this this is oh yeah but like the thing here is consecrated Sphinx is is all the randomness sure whatever but it's still drawing you two cards per card drawn this card is literally three Mana I like you okay maybe so three Mana essentially what you're reading it as is like three Mana draw the three worst cards in your deck you think it's not worth three Mana like draw two because you really don't get the card if you want and each card is like three words so if you just play one non-creature spell they have to give you this right if you want a prime massage your way to get what you want you can also deck build by restricting yourself but you know ignoring that just in the general case like would you not isn't this still cracked I haven't played it yet I'm so bad dude I am so shocked that you guys are it's the three Mana draw the three worst cards in your deck yeah has anybody ever seen it been played I I kind of only a legacy there was uh there was a time when it was played in Legacy I've never actually seen this actually by the way I think told this cast of some Clash before with politics or just give me a lot of elf with this again but like again I guess so you're saying like don't play any Ram spells like Play No ramp plane of it like to only play eight drops if your neck is this and all seven years you're very unhappy with whenever you draw them at any point in the game I think you should reconsider your deck building right like you should be happy drawing your cards and you should be happy drawing three cards off of your deck right let's say if it's three man or Draw three lands would you would you play that no right like I I think that's very good still right I mean I'm looking I'm looking at some of your decks Richard like I'm looking at the bird stack the the Revy Bird's deck so I'm imagining you cast this you cast this I give you uh fledging not spree that's your creature I give you probably an offer you can't refuse that's your spell and then an island that's your land and I'm so happy about it okay well no I mean I don't think I would be happy about that like if you're not happy about it you should cut fledging Osprey right like why is it there why why are you giving him a drawing a basic that's weird like I don't know right like I can see people like I don't want land but you need all your lands you need to hit all your land drops right so the land is a good hit right so I guess if the non-creature and the creature is not good then like I don't even a late Matador is not bad right like I don't but but remember too but remember to you have to include like the the opportunity cost this could be harmonized this could be divination this could be like this could be something that just said draw three cards are the so you then there's a chance you get good cards oh I I play harmonize all the time and I never play this so I think yes by definition yes every teamer deck so I didn't know this card existed I read this I was like what like what have I been missing my entire life I mean Richard does love the three Mana draw threes jam it if you I mean honestly I haven't played it in Commander so maybe it's a lot better than I think to me I'm looking at the the downside scenario but help me out Phil gave it a day yeah I think it's usable yeah I think through my deck lists and for example in lornas I'm just happy for every card because even a Mana dog gives me a clue and the non-creature Spells are actually all very powerful I think or counter space which I happily take and I do think the land is actually what makes this card way better because you need to do heavier land drops like it would be worse if it's you are guaranteed to land that's probably the best card you get out of this if they give you like they can't really give you the worst land in your deck is still a land but the worst creature might be an only thought or something um I would just be happy to play it and it sounds fun I don't think it sounds necessarily powerful just by definition it shouldn't be powerful but it just sounds super fun so that's why I gave it an a just because maybe at some point I play it to see what happens and the politicking is are you probably gonna get a wrath or something out of it if you definitely get a wrath if you ask yeah honestly right I do like the challenging eggs that would the politicking could make me bump up my rating that's that's the thing that I'm most interested in is if you can politic this into good cards just getting the bad cards though I'm I don't see the appeal you are gonna try to apologic out of your mind for the summer something that may not even you're like I need to write like the table needs a wrap like I'm talking to you give me a wrath and two junkers right you can definitely get that I could see that working and the best part is literally like you will never get what you want dude because like you're they're gonna see your whole deck they know what you're I mean I'm surprised no one brought that up they see your whole deck now right right like maybe any surprises like that surprise opposition agent or something is now no they can also safely deduce what's in your hand like oh I don't see it right now that's too hardcore I don't see a rift in here there's probably a rift in your hand there's a much more practical concern is do you really want to sit there for the amount of time it's gonna take for your opponent to look through every single card in your deck and decide which ones they should give you of those three types like isn't it gonna take 20 minutes to resolve the single spell I'm building a Crim deck off iraxian cards Korean cards guided passage Richard maybe you could get people to scoop if you if you built your deck miserably enough and targeted the right person maybe you just get someone to scoop and get the win that way rather than having to deal with resolving it mix and matched basics all right uh he's doing just one destiny spinner Wayne Fowler uh put this often in creature based strategies from counter spells what do you all think uh Destiny spinner one in a green it's a 2-3 enchantment creature creatures and enchantment spells you control can't be countered three in the green create Target land becomes an XX Elemental with trample and haste where X is a number of enchantments you control it's still a land so oh we gave it all bees I gave it a c an A but it's also a b anywhere I'm at like awesome and enchantress Stacks is it worth playing outside of enchantress maybe like like making all your stuff on counter well it really depends on your play group that's the biggest thing like how many crims are in your playgroup if your play group is full of crims this is s tier okay one thing we've already seen even with me at the table Cavern of souls isn't enough yeah right so so like and Cavern of souls is way harder to interact with than than than like uh like a just a creature however it is nice to have redundancy right so like having Cavern plus this is nice and regardless of how many crims there are in the play group right like how many control decks you go up against just in the dark right if I am going in the dark this is cheap enough to where it is a creature where I don't mind the investment of two mana and I now can just play my cards freely devoid of counter magic at least count things that actually counter sure there are things that Exile off the stack which control decks also play so um I I don't know I mean this card is decent enough it's cheap enough and it has an activated ability that could actually just punch somebody I'm not a Believer so enchantress deck's Obviously good right but in a generic deck like I don't think you should lean hard on this can't be countered stuff right because it doesn't say can't be Doom bladed it doesn't say like can't be fought you need to play around all the stuff your opponent may have anyway so just dropping a two Mana two three to get rid of this like maybe threat of like counter spells I don't think is worth it so I think when you use the activated ability and it does something which is basically enchanter Stacks uh it can be good but generic deck like I'd rather like take my high rolls with Oh Come adversary or something right like that that just like hope I play something and Crim wants to counter it but then he can't because he has Destiny spinner and he definitely doesn't have removal or whatever like you know like you got to play around all this anyway so I I don't believe just being uncountable is enough right and if you're really worried Cavern is a land it's like a free spell basically is your land right so I don't know I don't really buy this uncountable aspect of it so you don't think uncounterable stuff like this is worth it at all then basically because I think Destiny spinner is the best version of like a creature that says your stuff can't be countered so just the whole that whole archetype isn't worth it what about the three-man does it have flash like the leopard or whatever oh it does not have flash it's a prowling sir poppers or whatever however you pronounce it three Mana three Mana four three Allosaurus Shepherd is good but it's only specifically scream yeah but it's a one drop it is a wonder I don't I don't fear countersall so I don't know I feel paying Mana to get around a counter spell is not worth it hmm I mean maybe that's what are all the games that you don't have this right or you know if they have removal or whatever like you need to navigate this anyway but maybe it's different because in 2023 we have so many free counter spells there's like no playing around a counter spell right so if you really need to land that Creator hoof like yes this could do it so maybe but I don't know I don't put I don't I don't think it's like actually if you're a creature combo deck I would probably say that if you want to play it to the fullest you kind of have to include something like this to tutor up if like if you run into a two controlled X or something and you want to pull off a Kiki combo or something you should probably green sun Zenith for this first although I don't know any you can't green sense this but not your Kiki if you play this so any creature combo that tutors up creatures should probably play one of the creatures that prevents this but also a creature that prevents other form of removal just have this in your tour kit if you play plan on doing something special with your creatures like defense Grid or something or I don't know yeah I mean if you want or whatever that shuts off everything all interaction on your turn is all like maybe yeah I mean removal too right Grand abolisher or something you can also just play this like a silence it's only two Mana so you can't wait until the turn that you're gonna try to combo and like play this if they counter it then they use their counter and then you follow up with the combo so you don't have to just run it out on turn two and be like I'm in a combo on turn eight I hope it lives all right so last card from Mason potato uh colleague ritual uh all the shots when it's played it's insane it just got printed it's not overly uh overbearing or overpowered it's two and a green and a black so four Mana sorcery destroy each nylon permanent with Mana Valley two or less add black and green for each permanent destroyed this way I gave it an a you know I'm just gonna say Richard's not dunking on any cards yet I feel like being super generous anyone yeah set C you don't like calling rituals I've never I've never really understood the appeal of this card outside of Dex that are like using it on their own stuff or like I'm gonna make a bunch of tokens and make a ton of Mana or something but like I don't know man I value tour last just seems very restricted you're like getting everyone's Mana rocks so it seems like I guess the main value if if that's your thing I know this is like a CDH staple apparently if you just look at the Decks that play on EDH rack this is like very heavily played in any deck in the colors in CDH but in more casual games is it worth it like I feel like you just blow up everyone's Mana rocks and become the enemy and hope I don't know hope for the best hope that the Mana you make off of this lets you pull far enough ahead but it seems like it's just gonna enrage the table because you pull up all their signets and keep them from doing things you enraged the table and you blew up their setup but now you've got this burst in Mana yeah and I I don't know the burst in Mana like if you can obviously if it pays for itself and you're you're fine with that if you if it does more then it's like that's great right so I I don't know I mean I think this is by no means I like I think this is a specific deck kind of like sweeper uh it's it's nice to have it in those decks let's just say like a Marin deck where you know all the one drop stuff you can just bring back the two ones and twos you can bring back easily so there's lots of ways in golgari to reoccur the things so uh the things that you have so being able to get a burst in Mana for it and also like like destroying and disrupting all your opponents setup is pretty nice I do like it I I don't play it myself but I've been blown out very hard by it and then the person it was on Commander Clash I don't know who it was but somebody wiped like a couple of tokens all the Mana rocks and then have like nine mana and then you rebuild your Bot if you blew up anything and best case you didn't blow up anything and stick up the Mana and play like I don't know something big uh Evangel of zendika you could probably play this before even to get oh yeah I think everything that creates free Mana has an insanely high ceiling and this is probably no different the the floor is pretty low like two one yeah that's okay it's like any rack you don't cast it if it has the floor is terrible right but I actually don't play this because I think it's too good I think so you don't normally snap it off on turn four right you snap it off on like turn six or something you get this huge burst of mana and then you deploy whatever the threat um it kills like all Mana dorks Mana rocks uh if someone has a token deck like you've basically just won the game so I think it's actually extremely strong and it's in the colors that you typically don't get hurt because you can just use real ramp like you don't need to play the Mana door so you don't need to play the um the Mana rocks so you can really set everyone back to the stone ages and then while accelerating yourself and you become Arch Enemy but you just got like five extra Mana or like eight extra Mana or something right so you that should theoretically let you deal with being Arch Enemy so I do like that aspect um so I actually think it's a really strong card when you when you think about it if you if every one of us play a Mana rock or any kind of artifact between turns one and and four I it already paid for itself it is a free it's it's free so anything past that if any of us do more than one artifact or impermanent that's two or less Mana it's it's absurd right it's just really good oh it's so good against slowness destroys any Treasures or like any any weenie Decks that like low to the ground right like it's everything two or less yeah all right so we average out to a b even though we're all over the place on this one all right so that is all the cards so thank you to everyone who sentenced so many cards I found a lot of cool cards I thought I was me too cars but there were some like crazy cars I didn't know existed um you guys are all wrong guided passes you're still ass okay I dare you to play it too Richard I dare you to play it I wanna I wanna see you here [Music] you're gonna be so sad like like what's gonna be like Oak of adversary final fortunate city of Traders open and open into wonders probably in there too somewhere I'm gonna give you your favorite creature unless he has indestructible and then I'm gonna get you with force of despair you start playing I think there's some hidden gems in here so thank you to everyone who's sending their cards and uh we'll see you here next week see you

Channel: MTGGoldfish Commander

Views: 44,410

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Id: xIPkhHMek94

Length: 95min 31sec (5731 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 24 2023