>> WELCOME TO PRIME TIME
WEEKEND. I'M NICOLE WALLACE. LET'S GET RIGHT TO THE WEEK'S
TOP STORIES. >> SAID SOMETHING TO THE
EFFECT. I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THE
LAST WORD. THIS IS EMBARRASSING. FIGURE IT OUT.
WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT. I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT WE
LOST. >> TRUMP KNEW ALL ALONG, RIGHT THAT HE LOST EVEN THOUGH HE HAS
RAGED NOW FOR 4 YEARS THAT THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WAS
SOMEHOW STOLEN FROM HIM IN PRIVATE. EVEN DONALD TRUMP HAS
ADMITTED THE TRUTH. EVEN DONALD TRUMP KNOWS THE TRUTH. IT'S A
CHARITY. SO EMBARRASSED ABOUT THAT. PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN, HE
REFERS TO HIM AS THIS GUY BEAT HIM AND BEAT HIM IN THE 2020
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TODAY IN A BRAND-NEW TAPE NEVER HEARD
BEFORE. WE'RE HEARING THAT PRIVATE ADMISSION IN THE EX
PRESIDENT'S OWN WORDS ON TAPE. A REMARKABLE SLIP OF THE MASK,
RIGHT? TRUMP'S FACADE DURING ONE OF HIS HALF DOZEN
INTERVIEWS WITH WRITER REMAINS TO DO SO. TODAY AUTHOR OF A
BRAND NEW BOOK CHRONICLING TRUMP'S TIME AS HOST OF THE
APPRENTICE. WE SPOKE WITH ME ON THIS PROGRAM YESTERDAY. HE TOLD
US ABOUT THIS MOMENT HERE IS THAT NEVER BEFORE HEARD
EXCHANGE THAT WE CAME UP WITH TRUMP IS TALKING ABOUT FORMER
FOX NEWS COMMENTATOR GERALDO RIVERA. LISTEN WAS FOR ALL
THAT. >> IT WAS GOOD. HE DID A GOOD
JOB. YEAH. HE WAS SMART COMING. HE DID A GOOD JOB AND I SUPPOSE NOELLE DICKSON,
HE IS EXTRA LOST THE ELECTION.
I WON THE ELECTION. BUT WHEN THEY SAID WERE HE CALLED ME UP 3 OR 4 TIMES.
I DID TAKE A SCHOOL BECAUSE ARE SO BUSY. WE FIGHTING IT. YOU KNOW, WITH WITH WHAT'S
GOING ON TO THAT WAS GOING ON. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SEE IT, BUT
YOU WILL. WE HAVE 3, 4, TIMES AND FINALLY HAD A LITTLE TIME.
I CALLED HIM BACK WHEN HE WAS LAST IN THE 7 TALKING ABOUT THE PRESIDENT CALLS. BUT I
DIDN'T CALL HIM EVERY TURN THIS ON CALL. AND HE STARTED TALKING
VERY PERSONALLY ABOUT HOW I WAS FEELING HOW I WAS DOING NOW. AND I SAID THAT'S REALLY OF THE
TRIAL. I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT HOW I WAS FEELING. I JUST SURE
ISN'T JUST DON'T CALL THAT LASTED VERY QUICKLY. JUST TELL
YOU, THERE ARE OTHER HAS TO GO. IT'S NOT IDEAL TO SEE. SHE'S
NOT MY PSYCHIATRIST, BUT HE MADE IT SOUND LIKE IT WAS SUCH
A BIG DEAL. IT WAS A DISSENT JOINED. IT WAS RETURNED TO
SCHOOL, BUT HE SAID THE PRESIDENT CALLED ME LIKE I'M
REACHING OUT TO HIM AND I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO HIM SINCE. >> SO DESPITE TRUMP'S EFFORTS
TO HIS MASK BACK ON, RIGHT QUICKLY, COVERED UP, YOU HEARD
THE TRUTH, POUR OUT OF THEM. CALL ME AFTER I LOST HER,
ALTHOUGH I MEAN, I WON. HE LOST. HE LOST. HE KNOWS IT
CAN SPEAKING CONVERSATIONAL AI. HE ADMITTED IT ON TAPE. MEANWHILE, PUBLICLY AND EVEN
THERE AND THAT CALL, THE DISGRACED EX PRESIDENT
CONTINUES TO PERPETUATE AND SPREAD THE LIE. THE LIE THAT HAS UNDERMINED
TRUST AND FAITH IN OUR ELECTIONS, THE AMERICAN
DEMOCRACY, THE LIE THAT HIS OWN SUPPORTERS HAVE BOUGHT INTO
POLK LINE AND SINKER, SOME OF THEM THE COST OF THEIR FREEDOM
AND THEIR LIBERTY, JULY THAT FUEL THE SUPPORTERS
INTO COMMITTING A DEADLY COUP AGAINST THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT AT THE U.S. CAPITOL ON JANUARY SEX, THE LIFE OR
WHICH DOZENS OF TRUMP'S ALLIES HAVE BEEN INDICTED ACROSS SEVERAL STATES. NOW, MORE THAN HALF OF ALL
REPUBLICAN VOTERS BELIEVE THE LIE, THE LIE THAT TRUMP COULD
EVEN KEEP UP IN A TAPED INTERVIEW. BUT NOW WE KNOW THE COLT LEADER DOESN'T EVEN
BELIEVE A LIE. MASS LIMPING IS WHERE WE START
THE HOUR WITH CO EDITOR IN CHIEF OF VARIETY, AUTHOR OF THE
NEW BOOK. WE SHOWCASED IT HERE YESTERDAY. HE'S BACK APPRENTICE
IN WONDERLAND HOW DONALD TRUMP AND MARK BURNETT TOOK AMERICA
THROUGH. THE LOOKING GLASS REMAINS THAT TODAY IS BACK WITH
US. I REMAIN I I I LOVED EVERYTHING ABOUT OUR
CONVERSATION YESTERDAY. BUT AS THE SHOW WE'VE SOUGHT TO REALLY
UNDERSTAND HOW THE LIE ABOUT TRUMP'S DEFEAT IN 2020 HAS
UNDERMINED VOTING RIGHTS. MOST 400 VOTER SUPPRESSION
BILLS HAVE BEEN PASSED IN. 48 STATES IN THIS COUNTRY
PREDICATED ON A LIE. THE JANUARY 6 INSURRECTION HAPPENS.
MIKE PENCE DOESN'T ENDORSE DONALD TRUMP. FIRST TIME THAT'S
EVER HAPPENED IN OUR COUNTRY'S HISTORY. AND IT'S SUCH A
PRECIOUS PIECE OF REPORTING AMID MANY OTHER PRECIOUS PIECES
OF REPORTING THAT EVEN TRUMP LET THE MASK SLIP WITH YOU AND
SAID HER, ALTHOUGH CALLED ME AFTER I LOST, JUST TELL ME WHAT
THAT MOMENT WAS LIKE FOR YOU SITTING ACROSS FROM IT. >> WE'RE SITTING AT THE SAME
TABLE. THIS WAS IN AUGUST 2021. HE WAS VERY COMFORTABLE THAT
DAY BECAUSE WE'RE ACTUALLY WATCHING CLIPS OF THE
APPRENTICE. AND I THINK PART OF THE REASON WHY THE MASK SLIPPED
OFF WAS THAT HE WAS REMEMBERING HIS LIFE IS ENTERTAINER.
HE WAS VERY AMUSED. HE WAS EXCITED TO SEE HIMSELF IN THE
BOARDROOM. AND THIS IS ALL PERFORMANCE ART
FOR DONALD TRUMP. MY BOOK REALLY TRIES TO GET INTO THE
PSYCHE OF WHO DONALD TRUMP IS, WHAT HIS MOTIVATIONS ARE.
WHAT HE'S DOING IS A POLITICIAN, QUOTE, POLITICIAN
BECAUSE I MAKE THE ARGUMENT IN THE BOOK THAT HE'S NOT REALLY A
POLITICIAN AND THE CONTESTANTS. I TALKED TO SAID THAT DONALD
TRUMP IS AN ACTOR. HE PLAYED A ROLE ON THIS REALITY SHOW AND
AS A CANDIDATE PURSUING THE WHITE HOUSE, HE ALSO PLAYED A
ROLE AS PRESIDENT. I STATES HE ALSO PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS LIE
THAT HE PERPETUATES IS ALSO PART OF THAT ROLE. HE'S ACTING
THE PART OF THIS AGGRIEVED POLITICIAN WHO CLAIMS THAT THE
ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM HIM BECAUSE HE KNOWS THAT SOMETHING
HIS BASELESS. HE LOVES TO DISTORT REALITY. AND WE I LIKE
THE CHARACTER IN ALICE IN WONDERLAND ARE GOING DOWN THE
LOOKING GLASS IN THIS STORY FOR HE'S CREATING FALSE NARRATIVES
DISTORTING THE TRUTH AND CONFUSING THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. >> I MEAN, DID YOU FOLLOW THE
JANUARY 6 PUBLIC HEARINGS CLOSELY AT ALL? I DID. I ASKED
I ASKED THAT BECAUSE BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF A A PATTERN AND
WHAT'S SO UNIQUE ABOUT IT IS EVERYTHING ELSE WAS A WITNESS,
RIGHT? SO CASSIDY HAS PENSIONS AND TESTIFIES TO IT. ALYSSA
FARAH TESTIFIED TO WALKING INTO THE OVAL OFFICE TO CHECK ON
TRUMP. AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS. YOU KNOW, WATCHING TELEVISION
IN MATTERS. I CAN'T LEAVE MY LAST THIS GUY, BUT YOU HAVE IT
ON TAPE. AND I I WONDER, YOU KNOW, I I'M GOING TO READ
ADAM. SO OUR AUDIENCE, TRUMP'S RESPONSE TO THIS PART OF THE
BOOK AND THIS REVELATION THAT THAT WE WERE GOING TO PLAY THE
TAPE. THIS IS HIS CAMPAIGN SPOKESPERSON AFTER RECOGNIZING
THE IMPORTANCE OF THE APPRENTICE. IT'S SIGNIFICANT
CULTURAL IMPACT ON A GLOBAL SCALE AND TRUMP'S REMARKABLE
ROLE AND FOREVER CHANGING THE LANDSCAPE OF ENTERTAINMENT.
THIS WRITER HAS NOW CHOSEN TO ALLOW TRUMP DERANGEMENT
SYNDROME TO WRITE HIS BRAND LIKE SO MANY OTHER LOSERS WHOSE
ENTIRE EXISTENCE REVOLVES AROUND TRUMP. THAT'S THE
CAMPAIGN PERCENT. WHAT'S NOTABLE IS WHAT'S NOT IN THEIR
RIGHT. THE DOG THAT DOESN'T BARK. NO DENIAL. THE TRUMP KNOWS HE LOST. >> IT'S NOTABLE AND IT'S ALSO
PART OF THE PERFORMANCE ART RATE. THAT'S AN OUTRAGEOUS OVER
THE TOP CRAZY STATEMENT THAT YOU'D EXPECT FROM A REALITY
STAR WHO ENGAGES INFUSE CALLS PEOPLE NAMES MAKES UP NAMES
CREATES FALSE NARRATIVES WAS ALSO INTERESTING ABOUT THIS
MOMENT. WAS THAT THE STORY OF WHY HE ENROLLED HER ALTHOUGH
HAD A FALLING OUT TRACES BACK TO THE FACT THAT AFTER THEY
SPOKE, GERALDO WENT ON THAT IT WAS CALLED TWITTER AT THE TIME
AND SAID THE PRESIDENT WILL ACCEPT THE RESULTS THE
ELECTION. AND DONALD TRUMP, ACCORDING TO HER, ALTHOUGH SAID
A VERSION OF THAT TO HIM ON THE PHONE SHORTLY AFTER THE
ELECTION AND THEN CHANGED HIS MIND AND DECIDED THAT THIS
ELECTION HE WAS GOING TO CLAIM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM
THEM AND HE WAS GOING TO PERPETUATE THAT LIE WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT. AND SO THAT'S THE REASON WHY HE STOPPED
TALKING TO HER, ALTHOUGH, BUT IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE
FACT. BUT HE'S PLAYING A PART. HE'S PRETENDING HE'S CREATED
THIS FALSE NARRATIVE AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BELIEVE HIM. >> I MEAN, I THINK YOU HAVE A
FRAME THAT'S REALLY INSTRUCTIVE FOR ANYONE WHO IS TRYING TO
COVER TRUMP IN THIS MOMENT. RIGHT? BECAUSE THE OTHER MASK
YOU TAKE OFF IS THE IDEA THAT HE EVER SAW HIMSELF AS THE
LEADER OF ANYTHING. YOU CAN SEE HIMSELF AS A PRESIDENT. AND I
WANT TO PLAY ANOTHER PIECE OF TAPE THEY'VE GIVEN TO US
EXCLUSIVELY IN. THIS IS HIM TALKING ABOUT DENNIS RODMAN'S
DOCUMENT TO DEAL WITH NORTH KOREAN LEADER KIM JONG REPLAY
THIS. >> DANA SOUZA. >> PRETTY COOL CAT IN MANY
WAYS. THAT'S A A IT LOOKED. HE DATED MADONNA
WHEN SHE WAS THE NUMBER ONE PERSON. YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE SOMETHING
GOING RIGHT. HEEL SUCH A THING TO ONE OF THOSE TO JUDGE
BECAUSE HE KNEW WELL SERVICE. KIM JONG-UN REALLY LIKED HIM.
YEAH, LEGIT. YEAH. AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, I CAN GET
THESE GUYS OUT OF HARVARD GOVERNMENT AND CENTRAL CASTING. THEY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH
KIM JUNG THAT A GUY LIKE DENNIS COULD I DIDN'T USED AND THE
STORY WE'RE BUT I THOUGHT ABOUT IT A COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE I
GOT TO KNOW HIM GENTLEMAN. BUT DENNIS WOULD HAVE DONE A
BETTER JOB THAN YOUR TRADITIONAL PEOPLE. YOUR TRADITIONAL.
I REALLY PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS KNEW THAT SOMETHING THAT NO
PERSONALITY KIM JUNG UN LIKE TO, YOU KNOW,
HE COACHED IN BASKETBALL TO GROW AND HE DID THAT. YES, SOME OF
THAT. HE SAID I LIKE THAT US. DO YOU LIKE TO AND WHETHER WE DENNIS LIKED
HIM, TOO? >> I MEAN, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF
THE LOOKING GLASS DOES IT. I MEAN, THIS IS SOMEONE WHO
MURDERS HIS OWN PEOPLE AND THE CURRENTS OF PIANO. I MEAN, I
MEAN, THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST BRUTAL DICTATORSHIPS IN THE
WORLD REPRESENTS A GROWING THREAT TO THIS COUNTRY WITH A
NEW ALLIANCE WITH PUTIN AND TRUMP IS SO CAVALIER ABOUT IT.
HE THINKS DENNIS IS BETTER THAN ANYONE WHO'S STUDIED NORTH
KOREA'S NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES OR UNDERSTANDS THE GEOPOLITICAL
IMPACT OF AN ALLIANCE OF VLADIMIR PUTIN SAY MORE ABOUT
THIS PART OF YOUR INTERVIEW. >> THIS IS A VERY STRANGE
MOMENT IN OUR INTERVIEW AND TO ME IT ALL TRACES BACK TO DONALD
TRUMP SAYING THAT BECAUSE DENNIS RODMAN IN THE 90'S DATED
MADONNA, HE'S QUOTE, A COOL CAT. AND THAT IS THAT SPACE THAT
HE'S IN, RIGHT. IT'S THE WANTING TO BE IN THE PROXIMITY
OF FAME, SEEING FAME AS A CURRENCY, SEEING CELEBRITY AS A
CURRENCY, THE ULTIMATE CURRENCY AND HAVING NO QUALIFICATIONS IN
TERMS OF LEADERSHIP WHEN HE SAYS THAT DENNIS RODMAN IS
BETTER THAN THESE GUYS FROM HARVARD, WHAT YOU CALL CENTRAL
CASTING AND SOMEHOW DENNIS RODMAN, WHO WAS A CONTESTANT
TWICE ON THE CELEBRITY APPRENTICE, YOU KNOW, DEALT WITH BEING AN
ALCOHOLIC ON THE SHOW WAS KNOWN FOR THESE VERY MESSY ANTICS ON
THE SHOW, SOMEHOW HAD A BETTER HANDLE ON GLOBAL DIPLOMACY IN
DEALING WITH KIM JONG-UN. AND THEN PEOPLE IN OUR
GOVERNMENT WHO WENT TO HARVARD, WHO STUDIED WHAT WE NEED TO DO
AS IN TERMS OF OUR GOVERNMENT IN TERMS OF MAKING SURE THAT WE
ARE HANDLING THIS IN THE PROFESSIONAL CORRECT WAY.
IT WAS VERY JARRING. IT WAS VERY FRIGHTENING. AND THIS IS
WHAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC NEED TO KNOW. THIS IS THE WAY IN
WHICH DONALD TRUMP HANDLES IMPLEMENT. SEE, THIS IS THE WAY
IN WHICH HE SEES HIS ROLE AS PRESIDENT. I STATES AND IT'S A
CONTINUATION OF HIS ROLE AS THE HOST OF THE APPRENTICE. HE IS A
REALITY SHOW CHARACTER THAT IS CONDUCTING HIMSELF IN THE WHITE
HOUSE LIKE A CELEBRITY WHO'S PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE ELSE. >> I MEAN, I'VE GOT A QUESTION
FOR YOU. I MEAN, YOU YOU HAVE ACCESS TO TERM YOU
ARE. AND IF I'M IF I'M WRONG, I HOPE SOMEONE WILL CALL COMING
DIRECTLY AND TELL ME THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, THE PERSON THAT
I KNOW OF WHO HAD ACCESS TO 6 TAPED
INTERVIEWS WITH DONALD TRUMP AFTER HE LOST THE TWENTY-TWENTY
ELECTION AND IT SOUNDS LIKE HE WAS FORTHCOMING. IT SOUNDS LIKE
A TEAM. HE LET YOU LEAVE THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I'VE ANY
THAT WRONG. PLEASE, PLEASE ENTER JACK. HE DID WHAT HE DID
AND A LOT OF TIME TOGETHER. WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HOW EASY
IT WAS TO GET TO HIM BY SIMPLY TELLING ME, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE
YOU'RE READING ABOUT THIS THING THAT HE'S MORE PROUD OF THAN
ANYTHING HE'S PRESIDENT? >> WELL, THAT WAS ALSO STRANGE,
RIGHT. WHEN WE STARTED THESE CONVERSATIONS, IT WAS IN MAY
2021. AND AT THE TIME, CERTAINLY I DON'T KNOW. MOST
PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT DONALD TRUMP WOULD DECIDE TO RUN FOR
PRESIDENT BECOME THE NOMINEE AGAIN AFTER THE INSURRECTION
AND HE WAS VERY DEFLATED. BUT IT WAS VERY EASY TO ACCESS
HIM. I WENT TO TRUMP TOWER. THERE WAS NO ONE AROUND.
I WENT UP THE ELEVATOR. HE WAS SITTING ALONE IN HIS OFFICE.
HE DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND HIM. HE SEEMED
VERY RESENTFUL, VERY LONELY, VERY SAD. AND HE WANTED TO
DEVOTE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME TO TALKING TO ME AND A LOT
OF THE TAPE BECAUSE I WENT BACK AND LISTEN TO SOME OF THESE
TAPES. IS WE PROVIDE YOU THIS EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE. HE TALKS
ABOUT HOW EXCITED HE IS TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE APPRENTICE,
HOW MUCH SHE ENJOYS THAT, HOW HAPPY HE IS. AND THE REASON
I GOT SO MUCH ACCESS WAS BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HE WANTS
TO TALK ABOUT. HE'S NOT INTERESTED IN BEING COMMANDER
IN CHIEF. HE'S INTERESTED IN REALITY TV. >> WE'RE LESS THAN A WEEK AWAY
FROM THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN
SHARING A STAGE WITH THE TWICE IMPEACHED FOR TIMES INDICTED
NOW CRIMINALLY CONVICTED DISGRACED EX PRESIDENT BUSH
VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS THE SAME TODAY. WITHOUT THE
START CONTRAST THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN HOPES TO MAKE TO
EVERYONE WATCHING. >> REPUBLICANS ARE GLITCH AND
NOW THEY GET HIM TO MAKE UP THEIR MINDS ON HOW TO ATTACK
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN AHEAD OF THE DEBATE. WHO IS PRESIDENT
BIDEN TO THAT? REALLY? >> IT'S AN EVIL GENIUS. A
MASTER MIND YOU MANAGED TO STEAL A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
WITHOUT LEAVING BEHIND A SHRED OF EVIDENCE. A PUPPET MASTER
SECRETLY PULLING THE STRINGS OF POLITICAL PROSECUTIONS IN NEW
YORK AND GEORGIA AND EVERYWHERE ELSE OR EASY. THE OTHER THING, THEY
ATTACK HIM FOR THE OTHER HALF OF THE TIME TO SEE SLEEPY JOE
BIDEN, THE BUMBLING ELDER STATESMAN, NOT ALL THEY'RE
SOMEHOW INCAPABLE THE MOST BASIC HUMAN INTERACTIONS. AND GOVERNOR, IT'S ONE WE
UNDERSTAND YOU CAN'T BE BOTH. AND OF COURSE, IN REALITY HE'S
NEITHER FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THE PROBLEM WITH TRYING
TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. IS IT OCCASIONALLY THOSE 2
CONTRADICTORY IMAGES, PRESIDENT BIDEN RUN UP AGAINST EACH OTHER
AFTER WEEKS OF SHARING DECEPTIVELY MANIPULATED OR
ADDED VIDEOS AND A CONCERTED EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THAT AS
MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE THINK PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN IS
FUMBLING. PEOPLE IN DONALD TRUMP'S CORNER ARE NOW PLAYING
WITH THE NEW YORK TIMES CALLS THE EXPECTATIONS GAME. THEY'RE
NOW RAISING THE BAR SO THAT VOTERS AREN'T AS IMPRESSED WHEN
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN GETS THE CHANCE TO SPEAK TO THEM
DIRECTLY. MEANWHILE, THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN IS WORKING TO
COMMUNICATE WITH ITS SUPPORTERS THAT THIS COALITION, VICE
PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS, SPOKE TO OUR COLLEAGUE MIKA
BRZEZINSKI ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT IN THE DEBATE. >> JOE BIDEN AND THIS DEBATE
WILL MAKE CLEAR THAT THE CONTRAST, YOU KNOW, I OF THE MANY ISSUES
IN OUR COUNTRY AND OUR WORLD THAT ARE COMPLEX AND NUANCED NOVEMBER OF
2024, IS BINARY. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
DIFFERENCE, I WOULD ASK PEOPLE TO REALLY IMAGINE WHAT THE
WORLD WILL BE LIKE ON JANUARY. 20TH 2025. ON THE ONE HAND, YOU HAVE JOE
BIDEN WHO HAS SPENT HIS LIFE AND CAREER FIGHTING FOR THE
WELL-BEING OF OTHER PEOPLE, INCLUDING HEALTH CARE. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE THE
FORMER PRESIDENT WHO SPENT FULL TIME WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT
TRYING TO GET RID OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, WHICH IF
HE IS SUCCESSFUL AS PRESIDENT AGAIN, WOULD MEAN OVER
100 MILLION PEOPLE WOULD BE STRIPPED OF HEALTH CARE
COVERAGE YOU HAVE ON THE ONE HAND, JOE BIDEN WHO UNDER HIS
LEADERSHIP BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THE FIRST MEANINGFUL GUN
SAFETY LEGISLATION IN 30 YEARS. AND ON THE OTHER HAND, THE
FORMER PRESIDENT WHO WHEN SPEAKING OF SURVIVORS OF
HORRENDOUS GUN VIOLENCE SAYS GET OVER IT AND IS AND WILL
PROBABLY TALK ABOUT HOW TO THE NRA, BUT HOW HE DID NOTHING ON
THE ISSUE. AND I COULD GO ON. AND I THINK
THAT THE DEBATE IS GOING TO MAKE CLEAR THE CONTRAST BETWEEN
OUR PRESIDENT, THE CURRENT PRESIDENT WHO WORKS ON BEHALF
OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, FIGHTS FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE
FORMER PRESIDENT WHO PRETTY MUCH TO SPEND FULL TIME
FIGHTING FOR THEMSELVES. >> JOINING OUR COVERAGE, CHIEF
POLITICAL COLUMNIST AND HOST OF THE PODCAST IN POLITIC FOR POC,
MSNBC NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST ON HOWLAND'S HERE WITH A GREAT
INTERVIEW OF YOUR OWN. THAT WILL PLAY IN THE SECOND FOUNDER
OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN, VETERANS OF AMERICA, HOST OF
THE INDEPENDENT AMERICANS PODCAST PAUL R**** OFFICE HERE.
CHARLIE, STILL WITH US. HOW MANY LET ME PLAY SOME OF YOUR
CONVERSATION MUCH AND I'M ALI DON'T. >> JOE BIDEN IS GOING TO STAND
ON THAT STAGE AND HE IS GOING TO SHOW WHAT HE SHOWED IN
TWENTY-TWENTY THAT HE IS IN THIS FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS
HE'S FOCUSED ON DELIVERING FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND HIM
STANDING NEXT TO DONALD TRUMP IS THE BEST WAY TO SHOW THAT.
DO I THINK RULES ARE GOING TO PROTECT US THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
FROM WHATEVER DONALD TRUMP MIGHT SAY? OF COURSE NOT.
BUT I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, HAVING THIS REALLY BE SERIOUS
IS WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT. AND I THINK THAT, YOU
KNOW, JOE BIDEN EVERY DAY IS DOING THE JOB OF BEING
PRESIDENT. THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY EARLIER IN THE
CYCLE THAN EVER BEFORE FOR THE 2 OF THEM TO STAND TOGETHER AND
FOR HIM TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HE'S DONE AND WHAT HE'S FIGHTING
FOR. AND, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVING AN AUDIENCE NOT HAVING
DISTRACTIONS, NOT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT COVID. I THINK ALL
THOSE THINGS ARE BETTER FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND JOE BIDEN
IS GOING TO GREAT DEBATE. >> JOHN, HAVE POT. LOOK, I
WOULD SAY THAT THE OTHER DAY THEY THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN, JEN
O'MALLEY DILLON IN THAT INTERVIEW SHOWS AND ON ON THE
RECORD INTERVIEWS THAT SHE BECAME CHAIRMAN REALLY ALONG AN
EXTENDED ONE THAT'S BEEN RECORDED SINCE SHE BECAME
CHAIR. JUST STEP BACK INTO THE JOB THAT SHE HAD ESSENTIALLY
LAST TIME, WHICH WAS BEING JOE BIDEN'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER.
HER OVER THE COURSE OF AN HOUR. WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF STUFF.
THE I I I CONFRONTED HER WITH A LOT OF THE CONCERNS AND FEARS
AND WORRIES THAT A LOT OF DEMOCRATS HAVE RIGHT NOW
BECAUSE OF THE STAKES OF THE ELECTION BECAUSE SOME OF THINGS
THEY SEE SHE HAD WAS CONFIDENT SHE HAD US GRILLI GOOD ANSWERS
TO A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS. I THINK THAT ALL THIS DEBATE
QUESTION, THE THING THAT I ASKED HER, NICOLE, YOU AND I
DISCUSSED ON THE AIR THE OTHER DAY, WHICH IS IS IT YOUR
EXPECTATION THAT THE MODERATOR IS GOING TO THE MODERATORS ARE
GOING TO FACT CHECK DONALD TRUMP IN REAL TIME OR IS THAT
GOING TO BE JOE BIDEN'S JOB? AND IF IT'S JOE BIDEN'S JOB,
HOW DO YOU DO? HOW DO YOU AVOID HAVING THIS DEBATE TURNED INTO
JOE BIDEN JUST DOING NOTHING BUT FACT CHECKING BECAUSE WE
KNOW THAT DONALD TRUMP IS JUST GOING TO SPEW WISE AND SHE CAN
SEE THAT THE WHAT THAT THAT WAS A PROBLEM. BUT THAT THE THE
TORRENT OF WISE COMING OUT OF OUT OF DONALD TRUMP'S MOUTH WAS
THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY A PROBLEM FOR THE COUNTRY AND A PROBLEM
FOR A CANDIDATE, BUT ALSO DEALING WITH IT AS A CHALLENGE.
AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'RE GOING TO BE
GRAPPLING WITH OVER THE COURSE OF THESE DAYS, THEY'RE AT CAMP
DAVID REALLY DEEPLY IN DEBATE CAMP IN THE DAYS AHEAD BETWEEN
NOW NEXT, THURSDAY IS GOING TO BE THIS ISSUE. HOW MUCH FACT
CHECKING DOES JOE BIDEN TRY TO DO? HOW MUCH DOES HE LEAVE TO
BE THE MODERATORS IN REAL TIME OR TO THE MEDIA AFTERWARDS?
BECAUSE HE OBVIOUSLY HAS A POSITIVE MESSAGE. HE WANTS TO
GET OUT AND EVEN A LOT OF THE CONTRASTS MESSAGING HE WANTS TO
DO COULD BE HINDERED SIGNIFICANTLY IF HE SPENDS TOO
MUCH TIME. I'M FOLLOWING. I'M SURE HIS INSTINCT WHICH IS
TO CALL OUT EVERY WHY THE DONALD TRUMP VOTERS BECAUSE
THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, 94% OF THE THINGS THAT COME OUT
OF TRUMP'S MOUTH. ALRIGHT, COP, YOUR THOUGHTS? YOU KNOW, I THINK THE DEMOCRATS
ALWAYS MAKE IT TOO COMPLICATED. AND I THINK WHAT JOE BIDEN HAS
TO DO IS STAND UP AND SAY YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE ME, BUT THIS
GUY'S A WHOLE LOT WORSE. HE NEEDS TO HAVE PLAIN SPEAK.
HE NEEDS TO BE UNCLE JOE. HE'S GOING TO DO SOME STORY
TELLING BUT ALSO JUST REMIND PEOPLE THERE'S A DEEP, ETHICAL
CHARACTER, INTEGRITY CONTRAST YEAR. I DON'T THINK IT'S HIS
JOB TO TRY TO FACT CHECK DONALD TRUMP. I THINK IT'S HIS JOB TO
REMAIN COOL AND TO SHOW LEADERSHIP AND TO SHOW STATURE
AND SHOW REASONABLENESS BECAUSE REALLY THEY'RE THEY'RE TALKING.
HE'S TALKING TO GROUPS. HE'S TALKING TO DEMOCRATS. THEY SAY
STICK WITH ME. YOU MAY NOT LIKE EVERYTHING I DID. PLEASE COME
OUT AND VOTE TO COME OUT IN BIG NUMBERS. HE'S TALKING TO
INDEPENDENTS AND HE HAS TO BE HONEST WITH INDEPENDENTS AND
SAY, HEY, I MAY NOT BE YOUR CUP OF TEA. YOU MAY NOT LOVE ME.
YOU MAY NOT LOVE DEMOCRATS BUT BETTER THAN THIS GUY WHO'S A
DISASTER WHO'S A THREAT TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY WHO'S
INDICTED FELON. HE REALLY HAS TO STAY ABOVE THIS AND NOT TRY
TO SELL EVERY SINGLE POLICY TALKING POINT BECAUSE WE'RE
ALSO TALKING TO A LOT OF LOW INFORMATION VOTERS WE'VE GOT
HE'S GOT TO GO TO THEIR GUT. I THINK YOU CAN DO THAT MOST OF
ALL BY SHOWING THAT HE'S A GOOD MAN AND DONALD TRUMP IS A PIECE
OF GARBAGE. CHARLIE SYKES, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING TO BE
IMMENSELY IMPORTANT ENSLEY, INFLUENTIAL DEBATE, WHICH IS. >> WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE
I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE ISSUED SHOW LOOK AT THE SUBSTANCE IS
GOING TO BE IS GOING TO BE BATTERED IS GOING TO BE BEATEN.
IF ANYBODY THINKS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INTELLIGENT
DISCUSSION OF POLICY, I THINK THAT IS SOMEWHAT NAIVE. DONALD
TRUMP IS GOING TO BE UP THERE WITH A FIRE HOSE OF OF IN
INSULTS, INTERRUPTIONS AND B, A S AND EVEN THOUGH HIS
MICROPHONE WILL BE NEEDED. I THINK HE'S GOING TO BE TRYING
TO A NEEDLE AND THROW JOE BIDEN OFF. PAUL IS IS RIGHT. I THINK
THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THIS IN TERMS OF
LIKE, OKAY, CAN WE TRUST JOE BIDEN? AND I THINK THAT, YOU
KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS I UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NOT THIS IS I DON'T
FEEL LIKE GOING OUT ON A LIMB WHEN I SAY THAT THIS IS GOING
TO BE THE WORST AND THE DUMBEST
PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE IN AMERICAN HISTORY, IT WOULD BE NIGHT
LIGHTNING MORE ENNOBLING BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP IS NOT
GOING TO BE UP THERE. HE'S NOT GOING TO BE DISCUSSING A
STUDENT LOAN DEBT. HE'S NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THESE
NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HEALTHCARE POLICY.
HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE POLICIES. HE DOESN'T
CARE. HE WILL JUST SIMPLY BE FLINGING THINGS. AND I
UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICAL
NECESSITY OF FOR JOE BIDEN, YOU KNOW, TO DID TO EXCEED
EXPECTATIONS. I UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS DOING AND HOW HE NEEDS TO
EXPOSE DONALD TRUMP. BUT PART OF ME ALSO THINGS THAT, YOU
KNOW, STANDING UP THERE WITH DONALD TRUMP IS A CONVICTED
FELON AND TREATING HIM AS IF HE IS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, A LEAD
AND LEGITIMATE NORMAL PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER DOES
NORMALIZE THIS THIS PROSPECT. BUT BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, AND AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE ALL GOING
TO BE ANALYZING IT. NOT IN TERMS OF DEBATING POINTS MEAN,
NOBODY'S GOING TO COME. NOBODY'S GOING TO CONFUSE THIS
WITH THE LINCOLN DOUGLAS DEBATES, NOT EVEN MAYBE THE
KENNEDY NIXON DEBATE. WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE EVALUATING THE SHOW
WHO TURNED IN THE BEST PERFORMANCE IN THE SHOW.
I MEAN, WE NEED TO KEEP FOCUSED ON THE STAKES, THE ISSUES HERE
AND HOW MUCH HOW IMPORTANT THIS ELECTION IS.
AND YET WE ARE NOW BEING S***** INTO A REALITY SHOW AND DONALD
TRUMP KNOWS HOW TO BEHAVE DURING A REALITY SHOW OR HOW TO
MISBEHAVE. I'M ONLY HOPING THAT THEY'LL BE A MOMENT IN WHICH
DONALD TRUMPS BEHAVIOR IS SO ERRATIC IN WHICH HE LOSES HIS
COOL AND THAT JOE BIDEN CAN TURN TO HIM AND SAY, HEY,
WHATEVER YOU THINK OF ME, YOU REALLY WANT TO GIVE THIS
GUY CONTROL THE NUCLEAR BUTTON. AGAIN, I MAY BE OLD, BUT HE'S A LITTLE
TOO. AND HE'S CRAZY AND YOU CAN SEE IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES. >> HOW AND I KNOW YOU'VE GOT IN
AN ISSUE WITH CHARLIE SYKES. GO AHEAD. >> I'M STILL I'M STILL MUCH SUN ON A PANEL. THAT INCLUDES ME
AND YOU, NICOLE, 2 OF THE MOST PROFANE PEOPLE. I KNOW. HARLEY
SYKES, NICE CHARLIE SYKES FROM WISCONSIN THAT IT WAS CHARLIE
SYKES, WHO IT'S A NICE USE THAT THAT THE PROP THAT PROFANITY ON
THE AIR. I'M STUNNED BY THAT NUMBER ONE. NUMBER 2, CHARLIE,
I YOU KNOW, THE PREDICTION OF THIS BEING THE DUMBEST WORSE,
MOST INCIPIENT, MOST IDIOTIC, WHATEVER. ALL THOSE ADJECTIVES,
I THINK YOU ARE FORGOTTEN. THE REPUBLICAN DEBATE IN 2016,
THE REVOLVED AROUND DONALD TRUMP AND MARCO RUBIO TALKING
ABOUT THEIR RESPECTIVE THE SIZE OF THEIR RESPECTIVE AGENDA.
TELL YA THAT GUY. EVEN ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT THIS DEBATE
WON'T BE THAT BAD. CHARLIE SAID ON THE SUBSTANCE. OKAY, FINE. ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT.
MAYBE. BUT I THINK THE 3RD THING AND THIS IS I HAVE A LOT
OF I'M A LOT OF RESPECT. A LOT OF ABOUT A LOT OF TIME
FOR THE ARGUMENT THAT THAT THAT BY DOING THIS DEBATE AT ALL,
THAT JOE BIDEN IS NORMALIZING DONALD TRUMP AND THAT THERE WAS
A CASE FOR THEM TO SAY WE WILL NOT STAND ON STAGE WITH WITH
DONALD TRUMP. I THINK THE CASE MORE WAY THE CASE ETHICALLY,
YOU COULD MAKE THAT ARGUMENT. I DO THINK POLITICALLY THAT IF
JOE BIDEN DECIDED NOT TO DEBATE DONALD TRUMP AND GIVEN THE
FRAME OF THE ELECTION THE TRUMP HAS, WHICH IS ME STRONG YOU
WEEK AND THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, BUT AT LEAST IN IN SOME
OF THE WE'RE VERY TIGHT RACE HERE ALL SAID OVER AND OVER
AGAIN, I THINK EVERYBODY'S REALLY AHEAD. BUT TRUMP'S NOT
LOSING RIGHT NOW. AND I THINK THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN ALIVE GIVING
TRUMP THAT STICK TO BEAT THEM WITH THAT. THE JOB I WAS TOO
AFRAID OF DONALD TRUMP TO DEBATE. I THINK THAT LITTLE BIT
OF POLITICAL MISTAKE. >> ONLY ONE THING MORE ALARMING
THAN WHAT HAS BECOME AND THEIR MEDIEVAL SIEGE ON OUR COUNTRY'S
TRADITION OF RESPECT FOR THE RULE OF LAW. IT'S THE FACT THAT MANY
AMERICANS, REGRETTABLY, BUT UNDERSTANDABLY HAVE AFTER ALL
THESE YEARS OF TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES ATTACKING IT GROWN TO ADD OR VIEW IT AS A
NEW NORM, MAYBE ITS AN ACT OF SELF-PRESERVATION PERSON.
MAYBE IT'S EASIER TO JUST TUNE IT ALL OUT WHEN TRUMP OR ONE OF
HIS ALLIES IN CONGRESS ARE A VOICE IN CONSERVATIVE MEDIA
SPITS OUT SUCH OF VENOM TOWARD THE MEN AND WOMEN OF DOJ OR THE
FBI. BUT THE TEMPTATION TO REGISTER
THE LIES BEING TOLD ABOUT THE JUSTICE SYSTEM ABOUT THE FBI'S
SIMPLY AS WHITE NOISE OR POLITICS AS USUAL IN OUR VIEW,
REPRESENTS AS GREAT A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY AS THE LIES BEING
TOLD THEMSELVES AS AN EXAMPLE, CONSIDER WITH
THE DISGRACED CONVICTED EX PRESIDENT TOLD A CROWD IN
RACINE, WISCONSIN ON TUESDAY. >> THE OUTRAGEOUS CHARGES IN
NEW YORK WHERE A CORRUPT CREATION OF CROOKED JOE BIDEN
AND HIS GROUP AND THEY REALLY WEAPONIZE WHAT
THEY DID IS THEY WEAPONIZE THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. IS THEY
WEAPONIZE ALL THE WHITE HOUSE. >> NOW THAT IN TRUMP COMMITTED A CRIME AND THE
PEOPLE WHO HELPED HIM DO SO SOME OF THEM WENT TO JAIL.
SOME OF THEM RECEIVED IMMUNITY. THEY TESTIFIED IN A JURY OF HIS
PEERS CONVICTED HIM. THAT'S HOW TO COUNT ALL BY
LOCAL PROSECUTOR WHO WORKED COMPLETELY INDEPENDENTLY.
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FULL STOP FOR YOU OR I MIGHT JUST DISMISS
THIS AS A CAMPAIGN SPEECH. I DID THIS INFO RILING UP THE
BASE AS JUST THAT TRUMP SUPPORTERS
HEAR THOSE WORDS EXCEPT THEM AS FACT. AND WITH JANUARY 6 AS AN
EXAMPLE ARE OPEN TO ACTING VIOLENTLY. IT'S HOW TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES
ARE TODAY PRIMING TRUMP SUPPORTERS FOR WHAT WILL BE
NOTHING LESS THAN A HOSTILE TAKEOVER OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE. SHOULD TRUMP PREVAIL IN NOVEMBER? TURNING AROUND THE
VERY INSTRUMENTS USED TO KEEP TRUMP IN CHECK INTO POLITICAL
WEAPONS AND DON'T TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT THERE SAYING OUT LOUD TRUMP ALLY, FELLOW COMICS.
TEEN BANNON HAS BEEN OPEN ABOUT THE PLAN TO PROSECUTE
HIGH RANKING DOJ OFFICIALS. PEOPLE LIKE ATTORNEY GENERAL
MERRICK GARLAND OUT OF WHAT HE DESCRIBES AS QUOTE,
RETRIBUTION. OF COURSE, WHEN IT COMES TO
UNFOUNDED ATTACKS AGAINST THE PEOPLE SERVING AT THE TOP OF
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, STEVE BANNON'S WARMONGERING IS
MORE LIKE CHAPTER 10 AND THE YEARS LONG SAGA ON THIS FRONT. ONE COULD EASILY
ARGUE THAT CHAPTER ONE STARTED DURING THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY.
IF YOU'VE NEVER HEARD, YOU FORGOT WHAT FAST AND FURIOUS IS
OUTSIDE OF THE CONTEXT OF A MAJOR MOTION PICTURE FRANCHISE.
THE NEW SUCCESSFULLY AVOIDED OR FORGOT ABOUT THAT PERIOD IN
AMERICAN HISTORY TO JOG YOUR MEMORY. OPERATION FAST AND
FURIOUS WAS AN ILL-FATED GUN TRACING PROGRAM RELATED TO
DANGEROUS MEXICAN DRUG CARTELS. THE OPERATION WENT WRONG WITH
THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AGENT WAS TRAGICALLY KILLED. 2 GUNS
FROM THE OPERATION WERE FOUND AT THE SCENE. ATTORNEY GENERAL AT THE TIME
ERIC HOLDER PROVIDED LAWMAKERS HAVE THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF
DOCUMENTS ONLY TO BECOME THE FIRST EVER SITTING CABINET
OFFICIAL IN OUR COUNTRY'S HISTORY TO EVER BE HELD IN
CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS. AND 19 OF THE DOJ IG
INVESTIGATION FOUND 0 EVIDENCE THAT AG HOLDER OR ANY OF DOJ IS
TOP LEADERS KNEW OF OR SOUGHT TO COVER UP THE DATA. THE
SCANDAL BUT SAID THE DAMAGE HAD BEEN DONE. THE TRAIN HAD LEFT
THE STATION AS THEY SAY, A CONCERTED BREAKDOWN OF TRUST
BETWEEN CONSERVATIVES, RIGHT-WING MEDIA AND OUR
INSTITUTIONS. ESPECIALLY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WAS SET
IN MOTION. THE END RESULT ALL THESE YEARS
LATER, CONVICTED FELON PRESUMPTIVE REPUBLICAN PARTY
NOMINEE RUNNING OPENLY ON GOING TO WAR WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE ON DAY ONE. IF YOU PREVAIL SAID NOVEMBER, IT IS
THROUGH THIS WHITE OR WAS THIS LONGER VIEW OF MODERN POLITICAL
HISTORY THAT WE EXAMINE TRUMP'S NEAR DAILY AN ESCALATING
ATTACKS ON THE RULE OF LAW WITH OUR NEXT GUEST. JOINING OUR
CONVERSATION, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL ERIC HOLDER IS HERE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING TIME FOR US TODAY. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
COLON DIDN'T WANT TO STAY REVIEW FAST AND FURIOUS, BUT
THAT'S A THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD PLACE TO START THIS
CONVERSATION. >> WELL, AND I WOULD I WOULD
LIKE TO READ ABOUT IT MYSELF. I'VE NEVER SAID THIS ON TV, BUT
I FIRST READ IN. >> AND WHEN I HAD WRITTEN A
NOVEL AND AND CHRIS WALLACE WAS A FRIEND OF MINE, HE INVITED ME
TO COME ON THE PROGRAM AS A PANELIST TO MENTION THE BOOK.
AND HE SAID WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FAST AND FURIOUS. AND I SAID,
WHAT'S THAT? HE SAID, REED IN OUR AUDIENCE IS REALLY FIRE UP
ABOUT IT. AND I REMEMBER GOOGLING IN READING AND IT'S
JUST GOOD EXAMPLE AS ANY OF THE INJECTION OF POLITICS PULLING
THE LEVERS OF CONGRESSIONAL OUR EYES TO DO SOMETHING THAT HAD
NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE AND THEN SOFTENING THE TERRAIN WITH
CONSERVATIVE MEDIA AND CONSERVATIVE ACTIVISTS. AND I
AND I WONDER WHAT YOU MAKE WHAT TRUMP'S PROMISING TO DO IN A
SECOND TERM TO THE DEPARTMENT THAT YOU ONCE LED. >> YEAH, DEPARTMENT. I ONCE LED
AND THAT I LOVE DEARLY. I SPENT NEARLY 20 YEARS OF MY CAREER
THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S STARTING OUT AS JUST A LINE
LAWYER IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT COMING OUT STRAIGHT
OUT OF LAW SCHOOL. AND THERE'S A TRADITION OF THE DEPARTMENT
THAT REGARDLESS OF WHO IS IN CHARGE POLITICALLY, THE
DEPARTMENT USES ITS POWER IN A POLITICAL WAY. AND I'M VERY
CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT SAYS HE'S GOING TO
DO. STEVE BANNON SAYS HE WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO AND I TAKE
THEM AT THEIR WORD. AND I THINK THEY'VE LEARNED FROM THE FIRST
TERM THEY WILL APPOINT A COMPLIANCE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
BUT BEYOND THAT, THEY NOW UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WILL HAVE
A COMPLIANT DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL. THEY'LL HAVE COMPLIANT
UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS AND THEY WILL GIVE THESE COMPLIANT
U.S. ATTORNEYS HIRING POWER SO THEY CAN APPOINT A COMPLIANT
ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS, AND THEY WILL DO THE
THINGS THAT THEY HAVE SAID THAT THEY'RE GOING TO OPEN
INVESTIGATIONS AGAINST POLITICAL OPPONENTS TO USE THE
LAW IN WAYS THAT IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE NEW TRAP
NEUTRAL WAY IN WHICH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS SUPPOSED
TO OPERATE. BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE I
THINK THE PRIME CAMPAIGN ISSUE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RULE OF
LAW IN THIS COUNTRY WHICH REALLY SERVES AS THE BASIS THE
FOUNDATION FOR ALL THAT WE HOLD NEAR AND DEAR IN AMERICA. >> IT IS THE AREA WHERE TRUMP'S
CURRENT ADVISER SAYS SPENT THE MOST TIME AND ENERGY ON THE
ARCHITECTURE OF DISMANTLING AND REASSEMBLING AS A POLITICAL
WEAPON. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I KNOW FROM MY TIME IN GOVERNMENT
IS THAT OTHER THAN THE MILITARY, THE PEOPLE, PEOPLE
LIKE YOURSELF WHO SERVED IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS 0
APPETITE FOR POLITICS. AND I AGREE WITH YOU. THAT SHOULD BE
A A FRONT, A FIRST SECOND 3RD ISSUE FOR THE VOTERS. BUT HOW
DO YOU SORT OF BRIDGE THAT GAP BETWEEN A DEPARTMENT WHERE THE
VERY ESSENCE OF PUSHING BACK AGAINST TRUMPISM IS TO NOT BE
POLITICAL BUT THE MOST THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO REJECT WHAT
TRUMP WANTS TO DO. THE DEPARTMENT IS A POLITICAL
SOLUTION OF NOT VOTING FOR HIM. HOW DO YOU BRIDGE THAT THAT
GAP? >> YEAH, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE
NECESSARILY USE THE GAP LENDING TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE
FOR A NEUTRAL JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT YOU FOR
DEMOCRACY, THAT FOR THE RULE OF LAW, THOSE TO ME, HE SEEMED TO
BE, YOU KNOW, A POLITICAL THINGS THEY CAN BE INJECTED
INTO THE POLITICAL SPHERE TO SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
ONE CANDIDATE WHO WILL STAND FOR THOSE NON POLITICAL, A
POLITICAL PRO-DEMOCRACY MEASURES THAT WE HAVE ON THE
OTHER SIDE. KENNEDY WAS BOUND AND DETERMINED TO SUBVERT THE
SYSTEM TO HIS WILL SUBVERT THE SYSTEM SO THAT HIS SUPPORTERS
AND HIMSELF AS WELL OR NOT SUBJECT TO THE RULES IN THE WAY
THAT OTHER AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE. YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT,
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THE FORMER PRESIDENT, WE HAVE GOT
TO REALLY KIND OF GET OVER AND UNDERSTAND THAT THE BATTLE ONE,
WHICH WE'RE NOW OPERATING THE TERRAIN ON WHICH WE'RE NOW
OPERATING THE NORMAL RULES AND A LOT OF WAYS SIMPLY DON'T
APPLY. AND IT MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE MORE OUT
FRONT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE MORE FORCEFUL. DOESN'T MEAN
THAT WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, COME DUPLICATE THAT WHICH THEY
SAY THEY'RE GOING TO DO WAS DETECTED. SO THEY'RE GOING TO
USE. BUT I THINK BEING JUST AS I SAID, MORE FORCEFUL, I'M MORE
OPEN ABOUT WHAT THE DANGERS ARE. YOU KNOW, FEAR IS A BIG
MOTIVATOR. IN 2008, BARACK OBAMA NEWS HOPING CHANGES OF
THING TO GALVANIZE HUGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE. I THINK THAT FEAR
USED APPROPRIATELY IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE EMPLOYED HERE
BECAUSE THE FEAR IS LOSING OUR DEMOCRACY. THE FEAR IS A LOSING
OUR FREEDOMS. THAT FEAR IS LOSING OUR ABILITY WOMEN'S
ABILITY TO MAKE REPRODUCTIVE DECISIONS. THAT'S A FEAR THAT I
THINK SHOULD BE LEGITIMATELY USED BY THOSE WHO OPPOSE THAT
THE FORMER PRESIDENT. HE'S CERTAINLY USING FEAR, YOU KNOW,
THE LEGITIMATE FEARS TO TRY TO GALVANIZE HIS SUPPORTERS. >> I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU
MORE. AND I THINK THAT IS THE FRAME AROUND WHICH THE CAMPAIGN
MUST BE WAGED, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE CAN WEEK AND I THINK LIZ
CHENEY ARTICULATE AS WE GO BACK TO HAVING POLICY FIGHTS AFTER
AFTER THE THREAT OF TRUMP AND THE FEAR, WOULD HE DO TO OUR
DEMOCRACY HAS ABATED. I WONDER WHAT, WHERE YOU WHERE YOU WOULD
SORT OF PUT ALL OF THE REVELATIONS. I MEAN, THAT'S THE
THING THAT IS DIFFERENT THIS TIME AROUND. WE WERE SO
DEPENDENT ON INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS IN 16 TO BREAK
STORIES ABOUT TRUMP'S TRESPASSES AND ARE INVESTING.
IT'S NOW ALL IN A WEBSITE. I MEAN, IT'S IT'S ALL SPILLING
OUT OF HIS MOUTH. SOMEONE INCOHERENTLY. HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU BREAK
THROUGH TO PEOPLE WHO AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION OR LOOK AT IT
AS WELL? BOTH SIDES DO IT. YOU KNOW, HOW HOW DO YOU SORT
OF JOLT PEOPLE INTO UNDERSTANDING THE THREAT THAT
HE POSES TO OUR DEMOCRACY? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT
WE HAVE TO USE TANGIBLE EXAMPLES AND IT MEANS THAT IF
IT DOESN'T BREAK THROUGH THE FIRST TIME, YOU SAY IT FOR THE
SECOND TIME. FOR THE 3RD TIME, HE SAID A 4TH TIME AND TANGIBLE
EXAMPLES IN MAKE PEOPLE IN THE MOST DIGESTIBLE WAY POSSIBLE,
FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THE CHARGES ARE IN THE PENDING CASES MAKING
PEOPLE FEEL YOU WITH WHAT THE RESULTS WORK OF THE CASE WAS
ULTIMATELY TRIED IN NEW YORK CITY WHEN IT COMES TO, YOU
KNOW, REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AS YOU'VE DONE ON ON THE SHOW, I
THINK VERY COMPELLING. HAVE WOMEN COME ON AND TELL THEIR
STORIES, HAVE PEOPLE COME ON AND TALK ABOUT HOW IT'S MORE
DIFFICULT TO VOTE IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE COUNTRY. YOU KNOW,
DOWN AGAIN, HAVING REAL PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HOW THE THE THINGS
THAT THEY HAVE DONE AND WE'LL DO. WE'LL HAVE AN IMPACT ON
WHEN THE ALLIES CONTEXTUALIZE THIS IN A WAY THAT MAKES IT
REAL FOR THE AMERICAN VOTER. >> SWITCHING GEARS FOR US TO AN
URGENT CALL THAT THE UNITED STATES SURGEON GENERAL TO ADD
WARNING LABELS TO SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS LINKING THEY'RE USED
TO DAMAGE TO THE MENTAL HEALTH OF TEENS WILL BRING YOU THAT
STORY. >> NOT ONLY OF COMPANIES NOT
DEMONSTRATED THAT THEIR PLATFORMS ARE SAFE FOR KIDS,
BUT THERE'S GROWING EVIDENCE OF HARM THAT WE DEEPLY CONCERNING
TO ME, NOT JUST AS SURGEON GENERAL, BUT AS A PARENT
MYSELF, NO WARNING LABEL WOULD HELP PARENTS TO UNDERSTAND
THESE RISKS. MANY PARENTS DON'T KNOW THAT THOSE RISKS EXIST. >> AN URGENT WARNING. THEY'RE
AND A CALL FOR CONGRESSIONAL ACTION FROM US FROM THE U.S.
SURGEON GENERAL TODAY FOR A WARNING LABEL ON SOCIAL MEDIA
PLATFORMS ABOUT HOW THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THE MENTAL HEALTH
EMERGENCY AMONG YOUNG ADULTS IN THIS COUNTRY IN A NEW YORK
TIMES OP ED TODAY, DOCTOR VIVEK MURTHY RIGHTS CITES EVIDENCE
FROM TOBACCO STUDIES THAT SHOW WARNING LABELS CAN INCREASE
AWARENESS AND CHANGE BEHAVIOR. QUOTE, THERE IS NO SEATBELT FOR
PARENTS TO CLICK, NO HELMET TO SNAP IN PLACE. NO ASSURANCE
THAT TRUSTED EXPERTS HAVE INVESTIGATED AND ENSURE THAT
THESE PLATFORMS ARE SAFE FOR OUR KIDS. THEY'RE JUST PARENTS
AND THEIR KIDS TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT ON THEIR OWN PITTED
AGAINST SOME OF THE BEST PRODUCT, ENGINEERS AND MOST
WELL RESOURCE COMPANIES IN THE WORLD. WHEN OUR COVERAGE
PEDIATRIC INTENSIVE CARE PHYSICIAN, PROFESSOR OF
PEDIATRICS, OUR OLD FRIEND, DOCTOR MICHAEL ANDERSON, YOU
HEARD ALL THAT. YOU'VE BEEN A FRIEND OF THE SHOW FOR A LONG
TIME. IT'S VERY NICE TO SEE. I WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE THIS.
EVERY PARENT I KNOW STRUGGLES WITH THIS. WHEN KIDS START
MOVING AROUND, THEY HAVE DEVICES, BUT IT IS A CONSTANT
STRUGGLE TO KEEP THEM OFF IT AND TO MONITOR WHAT THEY'RE
WATCHING ON IT WAY AN. >> I GIVE DOCTOR MURTHY SUCH
CREDIT FOR THIS OP-ED AND JUST FOR THE NOTION OF A WARNING
LABEL AND YOU'RE RIGHT, HE COMPARES IT TO. WE HAVE
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DYING FROM CEDAR FROM NOT HAVING THEIR
SEATBELT ON THAT. WE HAVE SIMPLE WARNINGS. WE HAD
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIE FROM TOBACCO. NOW WE HAVE TOBACCO
WARNINGS. I KNOW IT'S A MORE NEW WANTS DISCUSSION BECAUSE WE
HAVE TO HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OF COURSE. BUT JUST TALK TO
PARENTS TALK TO KIDS IN THIS OP-ED. DOCTOR MURTHY WHO DOES A
LOT OF TOWN HALLS TALKING TO KIDS, JUST TALK SEVERE, THEIR
ANGUISH, THAT THEY DON'T FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEIR BODIES AFTER
THEY'RE ON SOCIAL MEDIA. THEY'RE ON AN AVERAGE OF ALMOST
5 HOURS A DAY AND THAT THIS IS ADDING TO THE CRISIS THAT IS
PEDIATRIC MENTAL HEALTH. I WAS HONORED TO BE A PART OF
THE PROGRAM SEVERAL MONTHS AGO. HE DOING ABOUT IT A WHOLE LOT
OF TIME TO IT. IT'S STILL A CRISIS. AND THE TALKING ABOUT
SOCIAL MEDIA OR HELPING PARENTS OF SOCIAL MEDIA ISN'T THE ONLY
ANSWER. BUT I THINK DOCTOR MURTHY'S REASON SOME REALLY
IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT. >> I THE POINT ABOUT SUNSCREEN
AND SEAT BELTS AND OTHER THINGS WITH WARNINGS IS IT'S SO
INTERESTING BECAUSE THE PLATFORMS ARE DESIGNED AND
LITERALLY ENGINEERED TO BE ADDICTIVE AND YOU GO BACK AND
LOOK AT TOBACCO WASN'T JUST THAT THEY FOUND THAT TOBACCO
CAUSED CANCER. A LOT OF THE LEGAL SUCCESS HINGED ON THAN
KNOWING EDITION OF ADDICTIVE ADDITIVES. AND THAT'S THE
PARALLEL RIGHT TO SOCIAL MEDIA IS BEING ENGINEERED FOR
ADDICTION. THE ALGORITHMS ARE BEING ENGINEERED FOR
STICKINESS. HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST LAY ON TO
THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS AS MUCH LIABILITY AS TOBACCO HAD
FOR THE ADDICTED PEACE? >> YEAH, I THINK DOCTOR
MURTHY'S WARNING LABEL IDEA IS GOING TO GAIN SOME TRACTION.
I ALSO KNOW THERE'S LEGISLATION FOR COUNTRIES TO CONGRESS.
NOW THE KIDS ONLINE SAFETY ACT GETS JUST WHAT YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT. THE COLD. IT IS THE ALGORITHMS THAT THE INCESSANT
PERPETUAL KNOW SCROLLING. IT IS GETTING KIDS ADDICTED AND
THAT THE LONG-TERM MENTAL HEALTH EFFECTS ARE REALLY,
REALLY SERIOUS. IT'S GOING TO BE A WHOLE OF SOCIETY. IS
PARENTS ASKING QUESTIONS HELPING TAKE CONTROL THE SOCIAL
MEDIA? IT IS PEDIATRICIANS, MY FAVORITE GROUP OF
PROFESSIONALS THAT DEAL WITH THIS ON A DAILY BASIS. BUT BOY,
WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK TO LAWMAKERS. I'M JUST LIKE I JUST
LIKE BIG CHALLENGES FACING OUR NATION TO HELP US FIGURE OUT
WHAT ARE THE RULES AND REGULATIONS TO HAVE TO GOVERN
THIS BECAUSE NOW DOCTOR MURTHY ENDS BY TALKING ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, HOW WE PROTECT OUR KIDS IS REALLY THE MORAL INDICATOR
OF HOW DIVERSE SOCIETY WE ARE. >> THIS IS BEN PRIMETIME
WEEKEND. I'M NICOLE WALLACE. PLEASE TUNE INTO DEADLINE.
WHITE HOUSE AND ALL OF OUR PRIME-TIME SHOWS WEEKDAYS ON
MSNBC
