central and Pacific on ABC it's all about you I know what happened and I'm not
guilty why the fascination with
criminal trials figure out what's really out
there she revealed she had murdered
his family I know in my heart dated this it's the time of suspicion the Indians really tough you don't know what the truth is
going to be difficult to find unless you try to find the reality is our country can
collapse from within please see the white power
movement on the March please in the neo **** skinheads
its meant to incite for the KKK to Oklahoma City to
show the new meeting space we just
need to start talking about race the war this is a real wake up call
streaming now NBC news live >>> WELCOME BACK TO "GMA." YOU'RE LOOKING LIVE AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE AS WE ARE LEARNING MORE ABOUT THAT BREAKING NEWS, PRINCE PHILIP, THE HUSBAND OF QUEEN ELIZABETH, HAS PASSED AWAY AT THE AGE OF 99. PHILIP AND ELIZABETH WERE MARRIED MORE THAN 70 YEARS MAKING HIM THE LONGEST SERVING SPOUSE OF A BRITISH MONARCH IN HISTORY. LET'S GO BACK TO MAGGIE RULLI WITH THE VERY LATEST FROM THE PALACE. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, MAGGIE. >> Reporter: HI, MICHAEL. GOOD MORNING. YEAH, THE FLAG BEHIND ME STILL AT HALF-STAFF. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF WHAT WE EXPECT TO BE ABOUT EIGHT DAYS OF MOURNING FOR THE COUNTRY AFTER PRINCE PHILIP'S DEATH. THE ROYAL FAMILY, WE EXPECT, TO HAVE 30 DAYS OF MOURNING, BUT WE'RE STILL WAITING TO HEAR WHAT HIS FUNERAL PLANS COULD LOOK LIKE. OBVIOUSLY THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, THE ENTIRE COMMONWEALTH WILL BE MOURNING. THE WORLD WILL BE MOURNING. WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM WORLD LEADERS BUT DUE TO CORONAVIRUS RESTRICTIONS AND LOCKDOWNS IT WILL BE MUCH SMALLER BUT CERTAINLY THIS WILL BE A MOMENT FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD TO FOCUS ON PRINCE PHILIP'S LEGACY, YOU KNOW, HE STOOD BY THE QUEEN THE ENTIRE TIME THAT SHE HAS LED THIS COUNTRY. HE'S HAD MORE THAN 20,000 SOLO ENGAGEMENT, MORE THAN 2,000 TRIPS THROUGHOUT THE UK AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. YOU KNOW, TODAY OBVIOUSLY WE ARE MOURNING BUT WE'RE ALSO CELEBRATING HIS LIFE BECAUSE, MICHAEL, 99 YEARS, JUST TWO MONTHS SHY OF HIS 100th BIRTHDAY. HE LIVED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE DAYS AND CERTAINLY LEAVES BEHIND A LEGACY AND AS WE LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW THAT WILL BE CELEBRATED HERE IN THE UK, THROUGHOUT THE COMMONWEALTH, CERTAINLY HE HAS LEFT HIS MARK AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE QUEEN BECAUSE, MICHAEL, I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK OF HER. MARRIED IN THEIR EARLY 20s, GREW UP TOGETHER, SHAPED WHAT THE COMMONWEALTH, WHAT THE WORLD, WHAT THIS COUNTRY LOOKS LIKE TOGETHER AND NOW, MICHAEL, TODAY IS THE FIRST TIME SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO RULE WITHOUT HER PARTNER BY HER SIDE SO STILL A LOT MORE DETAILS WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT, MICHAEL, BUT FEELS LIKE THE END OF AN ERA IN BRITAIN. >> WE HAVE THAT FEELING HERE AS WELL. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >>> LET'S BRING IN ROBERT JOBSON FOR MORE ON PRINCE PHILIP. AND, ROBERT, LET'S START OUT BY TALKING ABOUT WE ALL SAW PRINCE PHILIP IN PUBLIC. TALK ABOUT THE ROLE HE PLAYED BEHIND THE SCENES FOR THESE LAST 73 YEARS. >> GEORGE, REALLY HE WAS THE STRENGTH AND STAY OF THE QUEEN THROUGHOUT HER REIGN. I THINK HIS MAIN OBJECTIVE WAS TO SERVE HER, HIS WIFE BUT ALSO TO SERVE HER AS HIS QUEEN. HE WAS HER AS SHE DESCRIBED HIM HER STRENGTH AND STAY THE JOB WAS TO SHINE THE LIGHT ON HER AND ALWAYS A FEW STEPS BEHIND BUT MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS CORRECT FOR HER. I THINK THE LAST FIVE YEARS OR SO SINCE HIS RETIREMENT HE'S BEEN MISSED IN PUBLIC LIFE BUT MORE MISSED BY HER, I THINK, YOU KNOW, SHE LOOKS RATHER LONELY FIGURE SOMETIMES WHEN SHE WAS OUT ENGAGEMENTS AS HE SPENT MOST OF HIS RETIREMENT AWAY FROM THE PALACE BUT FORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, CORONAVIRUS HAS BROUGHT SO MANY TERRIBLE TRAGEDIES BUT ACTUALLY WHAT IT DID FOR HER MAJESTY AND THE DUKE IS BRING THEM CLOSER TOGETHER IN MANY WAYS BECAUSE THEY REALLY HAD TO SELF-ISOLATE TOGETHER AT WINDSOR CASTLE AND WERE TOGETHER FOR THE ENTIRE LAST PERIOD OF HIS LIFE APART FROM, OF COURSE, THAT MONTH HE SPENT IN HOSPITAL WHERE HE HAD PROBLEMS WITH HIS HEART AND A KIDNEY INFECTION. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS MAN IN TERMS OF REALLY WAS A DOUBLE ACT FOR HER MAJESTY AND WITHOUT HIM AT HER SIDE I DON'T THINK SHE COULD HAVE DONE THE GREAT JOB SHE'S DONE. >> SEEING PICTURES OF HIM. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE HIS WICKED WIT BROKE OUT IN PUBLIC. >> YEAH, A LOT OF PEOPLE CONCENTRATE ON HIS GAFFES AND HIS PROBABLY INAPPROPRIATE REMARKS, BUT, REMEMBER, HE IS A MAN OF HIS TIME, 99 YEARS OLD BUT NORMALLY WOULD BASICALLY BE GOING ROH A ROOM AND PICK SOMEONE OUT TO TRY TO ENGAGE WITH AND GET A LAUGH FROM SO THAT HE WOULD LIGHTEN THE MOOD BECAUSE SO MANY ARE ON EDGE WHEN THEY COME TO MEET THEM HE LIGHTENED THE MOOD AND EVERYBODY HAD A GOOD TIME AND ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHAT HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO DO. >> COMES FROM A LONG LINE OF ROYALTY. PRINCE PHILIP OF GREECE BUT GREW UP SOMEWHAT OF A PAUPER. >> ACTUALLY, YEAH, IT'S SURPRISING. I THINK HE GOT MARRIED WITH LESS THAN A FEW POUNDS IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT. HE WAS A GREAT, GREAT GRANDCHIETD OF QUEEN VICTORIA. HIS BLOOD LINE WAS ROYAL COMING FROM THE DANISH AND GERMANIC FAMILIES OF THE 19th CENTURY AND HE WOULD THEN WAS A PRINCE OF GREECE AS WELL. THEY WERE BROUGHT IN REALLY FROM OUTSIDE TO BE THE ROYAL FAMILY OF GREECE SO HE WAS VERY MUCH AN INTERNATIONAL MAN AND SPOKE MANY, MANY LANGUAGE, WAS A GOOD ARTIST, OIL PAINTER, ALSO SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVED IN AHEAD OF THE CURVE ABOUT TRYING TO SAVE THE PLANET AND THE WORLD WILDLIFE AND SETTING UP THE WORLD WILDLIFE NATURE FUND AND A VERY VISIONARY PERSON AND I THINK WE CAN SOMETIMES OVERCHARACTERIZED HIM FROM HIS WITTY REMARKS, I WOULD SAY. >> PRINCE CHARLES CARRIED ON THAT LEGACY IN HIS CARE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT BUT THEY HAD A FRACTIOUS RELATIONSHIP. >> WE'RE IN A PERIOD OF TRANSITION WITH THE QUEEN WELL INTO HER 90s. A LOT MORE OF RESPONSIBILITY IS FALLING ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE PRINCE OF WALES. HE'S ALMOST LIKE A CASE SIGH KING ALREADY. I THINK NOW THAT WITH THE PASSING OF THE DUKE, HE WILL TAKE THAT ROLE AS HEAD OF THE FAMILY EVEN MORE. YES, THEY DID HAVE A BIT OF A FRACTIOUS RELATIONSHIP. I THINK REALLY THE DUKE OF EDINBURGH WANTED TO TOUGHEN UP PRINCE CHARLES AND SAW HIM AS BIT OF A SHY YOUNG LAD. BUT ACTUALLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS SINCE CERTAINLY IN HIS 90s THE PRINCE OF WALES AND DUKE OF EDINBURGH HAVE HAD A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP, REALLY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP AND I EXPECT THE PRINCE OF WALES LATER TO ADDRESS THE NATION ON BEHALF OF HIS MOTHER ABOUT HIS FATHER'S LEGACY. >> IT'S BEEN SUCH A DIFFICULT YEAR FOR THE QUEEN AND HER FAMILY. HARD TO IMAGINE HOW SHE CAN HANDLE THIS NOW. >> WELL, HER MAJESTY IS A DEEPLY RELIGIOUS PERSON. SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN BLESSED THAT -- WOULD FEEL BLESSED SHE'S HAD HER HUSBAND ALONGSIDE OF HER FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THAT HE'S HAD SUCH A LONG AND FULL LIFE AND I'M SURE THAT SHE'LL BE PRAYING TODAY FOR HIM AND, OF COURSE, DEEPLY SAD, BUT SHE'LL BE MORE I WOULD THINK BE LOOKING TO CHERISH THE MEMORIES OF THE GOOD TYPES THEY HAD TOGETHER AND TO CHERISH THE LEGACY THAT HE'S now when it matters most the
straightforward facts ABC number one news number one in
the morning number one in the evening with America's most
watched newscast number one in late night versus the
competition the number one news magazine on Friday nights number
one in politics across this historic
election versus the competition the number one daytime talk show
in number one in streaming news news is America's number one news now when it matters most the
straightforward facts ABC number one news number one in
the morning number one in the evening with America's most
watched newscast number one in late night versus the
competition the number one news magazine on Friday nights number
one in politics across this historic
election versus the competition the number one daytime talk show
in number one in streaming news news is America's number one news the reality is our country can
collapse from within please see the white power
movement on the March please in the neo **** skinheads
its meant to incite for the KKK to Oklahoma City to
show the new meeting space we just
need to start talking about race the war this is a real wake up call
streaming now NBC news live >>> WELCOME BACK TO "GMA." YOU'RE LOOKING LIVE AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE AS WE ARE LEARNING MORE ABOUT THAT BREAKING NEWS, PRINCE PHILIP, THE HUSBAND OF QUEEN ELIZABETH, HAS PASSED AWAY AT THE AGE OF 99. PHILIP AND ELIZABETH WERE MARRIED MORE THAN 70 YEARS MAKING HIM THE LONGEST SERVING SPOUSE OF A BRITISH MONARCH IN HISTORY. LET'S GO BACK TO MAGGIE RULLI WITH THE VERY LATEST FROM THE PALACE. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, MAGGIE. >> Reporter: HI, MICHAEL. GOOD MORNING. YEAH, THE FLAG BEHIND ME STILL AT HALF-STAFF. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF WHAT WE EXPECT TO BE ABOUT EIGHT DAYS OF MOURNING FOR THE COUNTRY AFTER PRINCE PHILIP'S DEATH. THE ROYAL FAMILY, WE EXPECT, TO HAVE 30 DAYS OF MOURNING, BUT WE'RE STILL WAITING TO HEAR WHAT HIS FUNERAL PLANS COULD LOOK LIKE. OBVIOUSLY THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, THE ENTIRE COMMONWEALTH WILL BE MOURNING. THE WORLD WILL BE MOURNING. WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM WORLD LEADERS BUT DUE TO CORONAVIRUS RESTRICTIONS AND LOCKDOWNS IT WILL BE MUCH SMALLER BUT CERTAINLY THIS WILL BE A MOMENT FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD TO FOCUS ON PRINCE PHILIP'S LEGACY, YOU KNOW, HE STOOD BY THE QUEEN THE ENTIRE TIME THAT SHE HAS LED THIS COUNTRY. HE'S HAD MORE THAN 20,000 SOLO ENGAGEMENT, MORE THAN 2,000 TRIPS THROUGHOUT THE UK AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. YOU KNOW, TODAY OBVIOUSLY WE ARE MOURNING BUT WE'RE ALSO CELEBRATING HIS LIFE BECAUSE, MICHAEL, 99 YEARS, JUST TWO MONTHS SHY OF HIS 100th BIRTHDAY. HE LIVED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE DAYS AND CERTAINLY LEAVES BEHIND A LEGACY AND AS WE LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW THAT WILL BE CELEBRATED HERE IN THE UK, THROUGHOUT THE COMMONWEALTH, CERTAINLY HE HAS LEFT HIS MARK AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE QUEEN BECAUSE, MICHAEL, I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK OF HER. MARRIED IN THEIR EARLY 20s, GREW UP TOGETHER, SHAPED WHAT THE COMMONWEALTH, WHAT THE WORLD, WHAT THIS COUNTRY LOOKS LIKE TOGETHER AND NOW, MICHAEL, TODAY IS THE FIRST TIME SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO RULE WITHOUT HER PARTNER BY HER SIDE SO STILL A LOT MORE DETAILS WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT, MICHAEL, BUT FEELS LIKE THE END OF AN ERA IN BRITAIN. >> WE HAVE THAT FEELING HERE AS WELL. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >>> LET'S BRING IN ROBERT JOBSON FOR MORE ON PRINCE PHILIP. AND, ROBERT, LET'S START OUT BY TALKING ABOUT WE ALL SAW PRINCE PHILIP IN PUBLIC. TALK ABOUT THE ROLE HE PLAYED BEHIND THE SCENES FOR THESE LAST 73 YEARS. >> GEORGE, REALLY HE WAS THE STRENGTH AND STAY OF THE QUEEN THROUGHOUT HER REIGN. I THINK HIS MAIN OBJECTIVE WAS TO SERVE HER, HIS WIFE BUT ALSO TO SERVE HER AS HIS QUEEN. HE WAS HER AS SHE DESCRIBED HIM HER STRENGTH AND STAY THE JOB WAS TO SHINE THE LIGHT ON HER AND ALWAYS A FEW STEPS BEHIND BUT MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS CORRECT FOR HER. I THINK THE LAST FIVE YEARS OR SO SINCE HIS RETIREMENT HE'S BEEN MISSED IN PUBLIC LIFE BUT MORE MISSED BY HER, I THINK, YOU KNOW, SHE LOOKS RATHER LONELY FIGURE SOMETIMES WHEN SHE WAS OUT ENGAGEMENTS AS HE SPENT MOST OF HIS RETIREMENT AWAY FROM THE PALACE BUT FORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, CORONAVIRUS HAS BROUGHT SO MANY TERRIBLE TRAGEDIES BUT ACTUALLY WHAT IT DID FOR HER MAJESTY AND THE DUKE IS BRING THEM CLOSER TOGETHER IN MANY WAYS BECAUSE THEY REALLY HAD TO SELF-ISOLATE TOGETHER AT WINDSOR CASTLE AND WERE TOGETHER FOR THE ENTIRE LAST PERIOD OF HIS LIFE APART FROM, OF COURSE, THAT MONTH HE SPENT IN HOSPITAL WHERE HE HAD PROBLEMS WITH HIS HEART AND A KIDNEY INFECTION. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS MAN IN TERMS OF REALLY WAS A DOUBLE ACT FOR HER MAJESTY AND WITHOUT HIM AT HER SIDE I DON'T THINK SHE COULD HAVE DONE THE GREAT JOB SHE'S DONE. >> SEEING PICTURES OF HIM. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE HIS WICKED WIT BROKE OUT IN PUBLIC. >> YEAH, A LOT OF PEOPLE CONCENTRATE ON HIS GAFFES AND HIS PROBABLY INAPPROPRIATE REMARKS, BUT, REMEMBER, HE IS A MAN OF HIS TIME, 99 YEARS OLD BUT NORMALLY WOULD BASICALLY BE GOING ROH A ROOM AND PICK SOMEONE OUT TO TRY TO ENGAGE WITH AND GET A LAUGH FROM SO THAT HE WOULD LIGHTEN THE MOOD BECAUSE SO MANY ARE ON EDGE WHEN THEY COME TO MEET THEM HE LIGHTENED THE MOOD AND EVERYBODY HAD A GOOD TIME AND ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHAT HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO DO. >> COMES FROM A LONG LINE OF ROYALTY. PRINCE PHILIP OF GREECE BUT GREW UP SOMEWHAT OF A PAUPER. >> ACTUALLY, YEAH, IT'S SURPRISING. I THINK HE GOT MARRIED WITH LESS THAN A FEW POUNDS IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT. HE WAS A GREAT, GREAT GRANDCHIETD OF QUEEN VICTORIA. HIS BLOOD LINE WAS ROYAL COMING FROM THE DANISH AND GERMANIC FAMILIES OF THE 19th CENTURY AND HE WOULD THEN WAS A PRINCE OF GREECE AS WELL. THEY WERE BROUGHT IN REALLY FROM OUTSIDE TO BE THE ROYAL FAMILY OF GREECE SO HE WAS VERY MUCH AN INTERNATIONAL MAN AND SPOKE MANY, MANY LANGUAGE, WAS A GOOD ARTIST, OIL PAINTER, ALSO SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVED IN AHEAD OF THE CURVE ABOUT TRYING TO SAVE THE PLANET AND THE WORLD WILDLIFE AND SETTING UP THE WORLD WILDLIFE NATURE FUND AND A VERY VISIONARY PERSON AND I THINK WE CAN SOMETIMES OVERCHARACTERIZED HIM FROM HIS WITTY REMARKS, I WOULD SAY. >> PRINCE CHARLES CARRIED ON THAT LEGACY IN HIS CARE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT BUT THEY HAD A FRACTIOUS RELATIONSHIP. >> WE'RE IN A PERIOD OF TRANSITION WITH THE QUEEN WELL INTO HER 90s. A LOT MORE OF RESPONSIBILITY IS FALLING ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE PRINCE OF WALES. HE'S ALMOST LIKE A CASE SIGH KING ALREADY. I THINK NOW THAT WITH THE PASSING OF THE DUKE, HE WILL TAKE THAT ROLE AS HEAD OF THE FAMILY EVEN MORE. YES, THEY DID HAVE A BIT OF A FRACTIOUS RELATIONSHIP. I THINK REALLY THE DUKE OF EDINBURGH WANTED TO TOUGHEN UP PRINCE CHARLES AND SAW HIM AS BIT OF A SHY YOUNG LAD. BUT ACTUALLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS SINCE CERTAINLY IN HIS 90s THE PRINCE OF WALES AND DUKE OF EDINBURGH HAVE HAD A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP, REALLY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP AND I EXPECT THE PRINCE OF WALES LATER TO ADDRESS THE NATION ON BEHALF OF HIS MOTHER ABOUT HIS FATHER'S LEGACY. >> IT'S BEEN SUCH A DIFFICULT YEAR FOR THE QUEEN AND HER FAMILY. HARD TO IMAGINE HOW SHE CAN HANDLE THIS NOW. >> WELL, HER MAJESTY IS A DEEPLY RELIGIOUS PERSON. SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN BLESSED THAT -- WOULD FEEL BLESSED SHE'S HAD HER HUSBAND ALONGSIDE OF HER FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THAT HE'S HAD SUCH A LONG AND FULL LIFE AND I'M SURE THAT SHE'LL BE PRAYING TODAY FOR HIM AND, OF COURSE, DEEPLY SAD, BUT SHE'LL BE MORE I WOULD THINK BE LOOKING TO CHERISH THE MEMORIES OF THE GOOD TYPES THEY HAD TOGETHER AND TO CHERISH THE LEGACY THAT HE'S now when it matters most the
straightforward facts ABC number one news number one in
the morning number one in the evening with America's most
watched newscast number one in late night versus the
competition the number one news magazine on Friday nights number
one in politics across this historic
election versus the competition the number one daytime talk show
in number one in streaming news news is America's number one news the most powerful stories of our time line true cinematic related to one
stunning follow the clues the hunt true twenty twenty twenty central on ABC admit minute these days what you
need to know seems to change just about every what is it that you really want
to now need to to help you not just get through your day but to make the most of your smarter feel better feel
happy well how about %HESITATION third
hour of Good Morning America in the afternoon GMA three what you need to know
lunchtime at one eastern twelve central and Pacific on ABC it's all about you I know what happened and I'm not
guilty why the fascination with
criminal trials figure out what's really out
there she revealed she had murdered
his family I know in my heart dated this it's the time of suspicion the Indians really tough you don't know what the truth is
going to be difficult to find unless you try to find the reality is our country can
collapse from within please see the white power
movement on the March please in the neo **** skinheads
its meant to incite for the KKK to Oklahoma City to
show the new meeting space we just
need to start talking about race the war this is a real wake up call
streaming now NBC news live >>> BACK NOW ON "GMA" WITH MUCH MORE ON THAT BREAKING NEWS THIS MORNING, THE DEATH OF PRINCE PHILIP. THE HUSBAND OF QUEEN ELIZABETH PASSING AWAY AT THE AGE OF 99 AFTER A SERIES OF HEALTH ISSUES. AMY ROBACH IS HERE WITH MORE ON HIS ROYAL LEGACY. GOOD MORNING, AMY. >> GOOD MORNING, MICHAEL. YES, A SHORT TIME AGO THE DEATH ANNOUNCEMENT CARRIED OUT TO THE GATES OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE. PHILIP AND ELIZABETH WERE MARRIED NEARLY 74 YEARS MAKING HIM THE LONGEST SERVING SPOUSE OF A BRITISH MONARCH IN HISTORY. THE DUKE OF EDINBURGH RETIRED FROM ROYAL DUTIES BACK IN 2017. BUT HERE IS MUCH MORE ON THE BELOVED FIGURE. ♪ FOR OVER 73 YEARS HE STOOD BY HIS QUEEN'S SIDE, HER MOST LOYAL AND FAITHFUL SUBJECT, PRINCE PHILIP OF GREECE WAS AN 18-YEAR-OLD CADET IN THE BRITISH ROYAL NAVY WHEN A 13-YEAR-OLD PRINCESS ELIZABETH FIRST TOOK A SHINE TO HIM BACK IN 1939. THE TWO WERE MARRIED IN NOVEMBER OF 1947. FIVE YEARS LATER ELIZABETH ASCENDED TO THE THRONE AND PHILIP GAVE UP HIS CAREER TO SUPPORT HIS QUEEN IN HER DUTY. >> MY GRANDFATHER HAD A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAREER IN THE MILITARY, IN THE NAVY AND HE GAVE IT ALL UP TO DO HIS JOB, TO BE THERE TO SUPPORT THE QUEEN. >> Reporter: IT WAS PHILIP APPARENTLY WHO ENCOURAGED THE QUEEN TO MAKE THAT FAMOUS SPEECH CELEBRATING DIANA AFTER GRIEVING BRITONS HAD ACCUSED HER OF BEING TOO STOIC, TOO ALOOF AND TOO ROYAL. >> IN GOOD FINALS AND BAD, SHE NEVER LOST HER CAPACITY TO SMILE AND LAUGH, NOR TO INSPIRE OTHERS WITH HER WARMTH AND KINDNESS. ♪ >> Reporter: AT ALL TIMES FORCED TO WALK TWO STEPS BEHIND ELIZABETH BUT IN LIFE THEY WERE EQUAL PARTNERS. THEY HAD FOUR CHILDREN AND A LOVING ENDURING MARRIAGE. >> BEING IN THE SHORT OF SHADOWS AND BEING THE SUPPORT BUT HE DOES IT FANTASTICALLY WELL. HE'S NEVER COMPLAINED. >> IT'S OBVIOUS FROM ALL OF US AND SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY ELSE IS THE FACT THAT WITHOUT HIM, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD BE SLIGHTLY LOST, I THINK. >> Reporter: PHILIP'S ROLE AS THE MAN BEHIND THE THRONE DID NOT GO UNNOTICED. THE QUEEN HERSELF EVEN SPOKE OF IT ON THEIR 50th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY IN 1997. >> ALL TOO OFTEN I FEAR PRINCE PHILIP HAS HAD TO LISTEN TO ME SPEAKING. HE IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T TAKE EASILY TO COMPLIMENTS BUT HE HAS QUITE SIMPLY BEEN MY STRENGTH AND STAY ALL THESE YEARS AND I AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY OWE HIM A DEBT GREATER THAN HE WOULD EVER CLAIM OR WE SHALL EVER KNOW. >> AND BORIS JOHNSON SPOKE JUST MOMENTS AGO. LET'S TAKE A LISTEN. >> PRINCE PHILIP EARNED THE AFFECTION OF GENERATIONS HERE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH AND AROUND THE WORLD. >> SO MANY PEOPLE, OF COURSE, AND TRIBUTES ARE POURING IN FOR THE PRINCE, GEORGE. >> THANKS. LET'S BRING IN VICTORIA MURPHY AND ALASTAIR BRUCE. LET'S BEGIN WITH YOU AND JUST YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE IMPACT THAT PRINCE PHILIP HAD ON THE MON >> IT'S BEEN IMMENSE.IZABETH?- I THINK EVER SINCE THE QUEEN FELL MADLY IN LOVE WITH HIM WAY BACK ALMOST IN HER YOUTH AND THEN MARRIED HIM IN 1947 SAID IN YOUR PACKAGE JUST THEN THERE HAS BEEN NOTHING SHORT OF A COMPLETE -- IN HIM AND HE JUST HAS THAT CAPACITY TO GO ON AND ON SUPPORTING THE QUEEN IN EVERYTHING THAT SHE DOES. AND TO LOSE HIM TODAY WILL BE VERY, VERY SAD FOR THE QUEEN BUT SHE IS OF AN AGE WHERE SHE WILL UNDERSTAND THAT DEATH IS A PART OF LIFE AND THAT AT THE END OF WHAT MUST BE ONE OF THE MOST REMARKABLE LIVES WITH THE SERVICE IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR, WITH THE ENERGETIC, ALMOST REVOLUTIONARY ATTITUDE TO HOW THE MONARCHY SHOULD CHANGE THROUGHOUT HIS TIME AS HUSBAND TO THE QUEEN AND NOW LEAVING HER IN THE VERY LATER STAGES OF HER REIGN WITH A TREMENDOUS LEGACY, HUGELY LINKED IN TO HIS WISDOM, DETERMINATION, WIT AND ENERGY. >> VICTORIA, THEY DID INDEED MODERNIZE THE MONARCHY. >> I THINK THAT'S TRUE AND REALLY IMPORTANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PRINCE PHILIP AND THE QUEEN, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR 90s VERY MUCH I THINK LOVED ACROSS THE GENERATIONS AND REALLY SAW THAT AND PHILIP WAS ACTUALLY THE FIRST MEMBER OF THE ROYAL FAMILY TO GIVE A TELEVISION INTERVIEW. HE DID SO IN 1961. HE WAS VERY INVOLVED WITH MODERNIZING AND UNDERSTANDING IN ORDER TO REMAIN RELEVANT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE MONARCHY TO MODERNIZE AND WAS READY BY THE QUEEN'S SIDE AS SHE PRESIDED OVER SO MANY CHANGES. THAT WILL BE THE SADDEST THING BECAUSE THEY HAVE VERY MUCH BEEN ABSOLUTELY A DOUBLE ACT FOR MORE THAN 73 YEARS. THAT'S HOW LONG THEIR MARRIAGE WAS. AND HE WAS VERY, VERY ACTIVE AND VERY, VERY HARD AT WORK UP UNTIL JUST A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN HE RETIRED SO I THINK SEEING THE QUEEN CUTTING A LONELY FIGURE WILL BE ONE OF THE MOST POIGNANT THINGS ABOUT IT. >> ALASTAIR, WAS IT EVER DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO WALK THE TWO STEPS BEHIND? >> NOT AT ALL, NO, HE WAS ALWAYS AWARE THAT WHEN HE MARRIED THE QUEEN THAT SHE WAS GOING TO BE SOVEREIGN OF NOT ONLY THE UNITED KINGDOM BUT MANY OTHER NATIONS AROUND THE WORLD NOT LEAST CANADA AND IN ORDER TO SUPPORT HER, HE HAD TO RECOGNIZE THAT SHE WAS THE FOCUS FOR EVERYBODY AS QUEEN. AND HE WAS BORN INTO THE GREEK ROYAL FAMILY, OBVIOUSLY AT A VERY DIFFICULT TIME IN WORLD HISTORY, BUT HE JUST UNDERSTOOD BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP AS A MEMBER OF A ROYAL FAMILY, THAT IN ROILS, THE ONLY PERSON WHO MATTERS IS THE MONARCH. EVERYBODY ELSE IS THERE TO SUPPORT THE MONARCH IN THE WORK THAT'S DONE AND WITH THE QUEEN'S WORK, PRINCE PHILIP HAS ABSOLUTELY SUPPORTED IT TO A TEE IN EVERY RESPECT AND SHE'LL MISS HIM LIKE MAD BUT AS I SAY, THEY ARE OF AN AGE AND THE UNITED KINGDOM WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO HIS 100th BIRTHDAY, I'M SURE PRINCE PHILIP WASN'T. >> SHE WAS MADLY IN LOVE WITH HIM. VICTORIA, TALK ABOUT THAT LOVE STORY. >> IT IS AN INCREDIBLE LOVE STORY AND A REAL LOVE MATCH. WHEN YOU THINK OF THE MONARCHY GOING BACK THROUGH THE CENTURIES OFTEN THEY WEREN'T LOVE MATCHES, THEY WERE ARRANGED MARRIAGES BUT THIS WAS VERY MUCH A LOVE MATCH. THE QUEEN WHEN SHE WAS PRINCESS ELIZABETH MET HIM, FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM WHEN SHE WAS VERY YOUNG, THEY WERE EXCHANGING LETTERS THEN THEY WERE ENGAGED AND MARRIED IN 1947 AND SHE ACCORDING TO HER COUSIN SHE NEVER LOOKED AT ANYONE ELSE AND REALLY THAT HAS BEEN AN ENDURING LOVE MATCH THAT WE HAVE SEEN THROUGH THE YEARS AND WE'VE SEEN THEM GO ON TO HAVE FOUR CHILDREN, EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN, MANY, MANY GREAT GRANDCHILDREN, THAT NUMBER IS STILL GROWING. WHAT AN INCREDIBLE KIND OF FAMILY REALLY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN. >> AND ALASTAIR, AMY SAID IN HER PIECE HOW PRINCE PHILIP CONVINCED THE QUEEN TO GIVE THAT SPEECH AFTER THE DEATH OF PRINCESS DIANA. TALK ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS GRANDSON, WILLIAM AND HARRY. >> WELL, I THINK THAT HE WAS ALWAYS THERE AS A GREAT TEMPLATE OF SERVICE AND OF MILITARY SERVICE AT THAT. HE WAS I THINK IN HIS OWN WAY PRETTY COOL. HE HAD BEEN VERY DASHING AS A YOUNG MAN AND I THINK THAT'S WHY THE QUEEN WAS SO MADLY IN LOVE WITH HIM RIGHT THE WAY THROUGH HER LIFE WITH HIM. AND I THINK THATS THAT TEMPLATE OF EXAMPLE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AVAILABLE TO ALL HIS GRANDCHILDREN NOT LEAST PRINCE WILLIAM WHO WILL ONE DAY BE KING AND PRINCE HARRY WHO HAS A TOUGHER ROLE TO PERFORM BECAUSE THE DIRECTION OF HIS ROLE IS VERY DIFFERENT AND I THINK THAT PRINCE PHILIP HAS SEEN IN HIS OWN CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY TOUGH TO BE IN THIS FIGURE HEAD POSITION WHEN THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL JOURNEYS TO BE FOLLOWED AND ASPIRATIONS TO BE REACHED. AND PRINCE PHILIP HAS RECOGNIZED THAT HE HAD TO SET ASIDE HIS OWN NAVAL TRADITION AND CAREER IN ORDER TO BE THOSE FEW STEPS BEHIND THE QUEEN IN HER ACHIEVEMENT AS SOVEREIGN FOR SUCH A LONG REIGN. >> VICTORIA, UPS AND DOWNS DURING THE COURSE OF 74 YEAR, PRINCE PHILIP HAD TO BECOME SOMEWHAT OF A CRISIS MANAGER AS WELL. >> WELL, THAT'S TRUE, YES. VERY MUCH HEAD OF THE FAMILY ALTHOUGH HE DIDN'T HAVE THE TOP JOB AS WE KNOW BUT HE DID VERY MUCH LEAD THE FAMILY THROUGH A LOT OF THOSE CHALLENGES AND THOSE UPS AND DOWNS AS YOU SAY, ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING TIME, THE DEATH OF PRINCESS DIANA AND THERE WAS THAT FAMOUS WE UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT HAPPENED IS PRINCE PHILIP SAID TO WILLIAM AND HARRY WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WALKING BEHIND THEIR MOTHER'S COFFIN, I WILL WALK IF YOU WALK AND THAT IS SOMETHING CONTINUALLY ATTRIBUTED TO HIM THAT WAS SAID AND I THINK, YEAH, VERY MUCH, YOU KNOW, THE HEAD OF THE FAMILY STAYING STRONG FOR THE FAMILY O OFTEN A FIGURE WHO OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WOULD GO TO FOR ADVICE AND SEEK COUNSEL FROM. VERY MUCH UNDERSTANDING, YOU KNOW, THE POSITION OF BEING IN THE SPOTLIGHT, BEING THRUST INTO THE SPOTLIGHT AND HAVING ALL OF THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES PLACED ON YOU. >> ALASTAIR, WHAT WAS THE GREATEST CRISIS THEY FACED AS A FAMILY. >> WELL, I THINK IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY FAMILY. THERE ARE ALWAYS CHALLENGES, I THINK THAT FOR PRINCE PHILIP, THE PURPOSE OF HIS ROLE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER THE CHALLENGES WERE, NOT LEAST THE FACT THAT FOR THE QUEEN AS HEAD OF STATE OF MANY NATIONS WHILE THE WORLD IS GOING THROUGH A PANDEMIC, THAT PUTS HUGE PRESSURE AND I THINK ONE FORGETS THAT BECAUSE FAMILY ISSUES ARE ONE THING, BUT JUST IMAGINE YOU SEE IN THE CORONATION SERVICE THE QUEEN WAS MARRIED TO HER ROYAL SOVEREIGN AND SO HE HAD TO BE THE BROKER OF THAT MARRIAGE, OF A HEAD OF STATE TO A NATION THROUGHOUT HTHE LIFETIME. ALL THE TIMES IN WHICH THE UNITED KINGDOM HAD TO GO ON MILITARY CAMPAIGNS AROUND THE WORLD, OUT IN THE FALKLAND ISLANDS OR AFGHANISTAN, ALL THE NEWS THAT CAME BACK TO THE QUEEN OF YOUNG LIVES LOST, FIGHTING IN HER NAME, WHICH IS WHAT IS DONE, IT MUST HAVE PUT GREAT PRESSURE ON HER BUT HE ALWAYS HAD A GREAT WIT, A GREAT CHARM, A DIRECTNESS AND I THINK THAT THAT HELPED HER BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS ABLE TO TEASE HER AND SLIGHTLY WARM HER guide you through it all we have made it through another
week together David we're showing our love and
support for all the high seas staff the hero now when it matters most the
straightforward facts ABC number one news number one in
the morning number one in the evening with America's most
watched newscast number one in late night versus the
competition the number one news magazine on Friday nights number
one in politics across this historic
election versus the competition the number one daytime talk show
in number one in streaming news news is America's number one news the world may feel out of your
control but your happiness doesn't have to be learn the
secrets to happiness ten percent happier podcast free
on apple podcasts on the second straight year with
the Edward R. Murrow award for overall excellence in television
ABC America's number one source this is GMA three what you need
to know GMA three third hour good morning America
in the afternoon it's all about you lunch time on ABC the reality is our country can
collapse from within please see the white power
movement on the March please in the neo **** skinheads
its meant to incite for the KKK to Oklahoma City to
show the new meeting space we just
need to start talking about race the war this is a real wake up call
streaming now NBC news live true cinematic related to one
stunning follow the clues the hunt true twenty twenty twenty central on ABC the most powerful stories of our time line I know what happened and I'm not
guilty why the fascination with
criminal trials figure out what's really out
there she revealed she had murdered
his family I know in my heart dated this it's the time of suspicion the Indians really tough you don't know what the truth is
going to be difficult to find unless you try to find admit minute these days what you
need to know seems to change just about every what is it that you really want
to now need to to help you not just get through your day but to make the most of your smarter feel better feel
happy well how about %HESITATION third
hour of Good Morning America in the afternoon GMA three what you need to know
lunchtime at one eastern twelve central and Pacific on ABC it's all about you twenty four hours assault on the
capital the NBC news original exclusively on Hulu now streaming with so much so much on the line more
Americans turn here than any other newscasts world news tonight with David
Muir we have made it through another week together America's
number one most watched newscast across all of
television on the second straight year with
the Edward R. Murrow award for overall excellence in television
ABC America's number one source the world may feel out of your
control but your happiness doesn't have to be learn the
secrets to happiness ten percent happier podcast free
on apple podcasts robin Roberts George
Stephanopoulos and Michael Strahan wake up with America's
number one most watched morning show ABC's Good Morning America somewhere else in the country there's a man good good good good people the miles then give them a brand spanking
new pair winning died just wanted you to have this thing name address the brakes Bobby bones they're
trying to break you %HESITATION great breaking Bobby bones New series Monday may thirty
first National Geographic the reality is our country can
collapse from within please see the white power
movement on the March please in the neo **** skinheads
its meant to incite for the KKK to Oklahoma City to
show the new meeting space we just
need to start talking about race the war this is a real wake up call
streaming now NBC news live forward >>> GOOD MORNING. I'M DIANE MACEDO. THANKS FOR STREAMING WITH US. >>> IN TODAY'S UPDATE, BREAKING NEWS IN BUCKINGHAM PALACE, PRINCE PHILIP HAS PASSED AWAY. DIED EARLIER AT THE AGE OF 99. PALACE SAYS IN A STATEMENT HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS PASSED AWAY PEACEFULLY THIS MORNING AT THE PALACE. WE HAVE MORE ON THIS. GOOD MORNING. >> Reporter: AND, GOOD MORNING, WE SAW THE FLAG LOWERED TO HALF-STAFF EARLIER THIS MORNING. EXACTLY WHERE IT WILL STAY UNTIL THE DAY AFTER HIS FUNERAL. A LITTLE WHILE AGO A NOTICE POSTED ON THE RAILINGS OUTSIDE OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE HERE AND OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF HOURS YOU HAVE SEEN PEOPLE STREAMING IN AND OUT OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE, PAYING RESPECTS. SOME LAYING FLOWERS IN REMEMBRANCE OF HIS LEGACY. IN ADDITION, THE PALACE RELEASED A STATEMENT ABOUT HIS DEATH THIS MORNING. I WANT TO READ A LITTLE TO YOU NOW. WITH A DEEP SORROW HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN ANNOUNCES DEATH OF HER BELOVED HUSBAND, ROYAL HIGHNESS, PRINCE PHILIP, DUKE OF EDINBURGH. PASSED AWAY EARLY THIS MORNING AT WINDSOR CASTLE. YOU AND I TALKED OVER THE PAST MONTHS, KNOWING HE WAS HOSPITALIZED FOR A MONTH FOR A HEART PROCEDURE, RELEASED ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO AND ABLE TO SPEND HIS FINAL DAYS, THOSE ONLY IF THREE WEEKS AT HIS HOME IN WINDSOR CASTLE SEEING SOME OF THIS FAMILY. WE'RE REMEMBERING THAT LEGACY AND MOURNING HIM AND ALSO CELEBRATING HIS LIFE. 99 YEARS OLD. THAT'S AN INCREDIBLE LIFE AND HE REALLY LIVED EVERY SINGLE DAY. LOOK BACK AT THE WORK THAT HE'S ACCOMPLISHED AS THE PRINCE. MORE THAN 20,000 SOLO ENGAGEMENTS. 20,000, DIANE. MORE THAN 2,000 TRIPS THROUGHOUT THE UK AND ABROAD. HE WAS A HARD-WORKING ROYAL, THE FIRST ROYAL TO REALLY TACKLE ENVIRONMENTALISM, AND A HUGE TENANT HE SUPPORTED, SOMETHING HE'S PASSED ON TO HIS SON AND GRANDSON. SOMETHING THE ROYAL FAMILY STILL CHAMPIONS. HIS LEGACY LIES UPON THE WORK HE'S BUN. PEOPLE REMEMBERING HIM, MOURNING HIM AND TURNING TOWARDS THE QUEEN. I HAVE TO MENTION HER TODAY AS WELL. WE ALL MOURN PASSING OF PRINCE PHILIP, ALSO IT'S THE QUEEN'S FIRST DAY LEADING THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT HER PARTNER BY HER SIDE. IT'S BEEN THE TWO OF THEM SINCE THEY GOT MARRIED IN THEIR EARLY 20s. THEY GREW UP TOGETHER. FORMED WHAT THE UK AND COMMONWEALTH LOOKED LIKE TOGETHER. TODAY, YES, REMEMBERING PHILIP BUT LOOKING TOWARDS THE QUEEN AND THINKING OF THE ENTIRE ROYAL FAMILY AS WELL. >> DIFFICULT DAY FOR THEM, NO DOUBT, MAGGIE. I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE LEARNING A LITTLE ABOUT OTHER PLANS? >> Reporter: NORMALLY A ROYAL FUNERAL COMMEMORATED WIDELY. OBVIOUSLY THESER NOT NORMAL TIMES. STILL UNDER A STRICT LOGDOWN HERE IN THE UK. THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC PRECAUTIONS IN PLACE. EVEN WITH THE GROUP BEHIND US WE'VE SEEN POLICE MAKING SURE A CROWD DOESN'T GATHER OUTSIDE BUCKINGHAM PALACE NOW. WHEN IT COMES TO FUNERAL PLANS A LOT UP IN THE AIR WE DON'T KNOW. SMALLER THAN NORMING WE KNOW. EXPECT ABOUT AN EIGHT-DAY OFFICIAL MOURNING PERIOD FOR EVERYONE HERE IN THE UK AND THE ROYAL FAMILY HAS A 30-DAY MOURNING PERIOD AS WELL. WHATEVER THE SIZE OF THIS IS, THE WHOLE COUNTRY WILL DEFINITELY TAKE A MOMENT TO REFLECT ON PHILIP AND HIS LEGACY. ALREADY SEEN STATEMENTS POURING IN FROM WORLD LEADERS. THIS IS THE BIG TIME OF PEOPLE REMEMBERING HIS LEGACY AND TALKING ABOUT THE WORK HE'S DONE AS A PRINCE. >> FROM LONDON, THANKS. >>> AND PRINCE PHILIP AND QUEEN ELIZABETH MARRIED ALMOST 74 YEARS MAKING HIM THE LONGEST SERVING SPOUSE OF A BRITISH MONARCH IN HISTORY. RETIRED FROM ROYAL DUTIES IN 2017 BUT CONTINUED TO WATCH HIS ROYAL FAMILY GROW FROM FOUR CHILDREN, CHARLES, ANNE, ANDREW AND EDWARD TO EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN AND NOW NINE GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN. AMY AMY ROBACH HAS MORE ON THE LEGACY OF PRINCE PHILIP. >> Reporter: FOR OVER 73 YEARS HE STOOD BY HIS QUEEN'S SIDE, THE MOST ROYAL SUBJECT, PRINCE PHILIP OF GREECE, 18-YEAR-OLD CADET IN THE BRITISH ROYAL NAVY WHEN A 13-YEAR-OLD ELIZABETH TOOK A SHINE TO HIM IN 1839. THE TWO MARRIED IN NOVEMBER OF 1947. FIVE YEARS LATER ELIZABETH ASCENDED TO THE THRONE AND PHILIP GAVE UP HIS CAREER TO SUPPORT HIS QUEEN IN HER DUTY. >> MY GRANDFATHER WAS A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAREER IN THE MILITARY, IN THE NAVY. HE GAVE UP A LOT, HIS JOB TO SUPPORT THE QUEEN. >> Reporter: IN 2011 HE SPOKE TO THE BBC ABOUT THE CHALLENGES THE EARLY YEARS PRESENTED WHEN IT CAME TO HIS NEW ROLE. >> -- TO RECOGNIZE WHAT THE NICHE WAS AND TO TRY AND GROW INTO IT, AND THAT WAS BY TRIAL AND ERROR, AND THERE WAS NO PRECEDENT. >> YOUR FIRST DUTY FIRST AND FOREMOST SUPPORT THE QUEEN? >> YES. >> AND WHAT DOES THAT INVOLVE? >> HELPING HER, SUPPORTING HER. ANYTHING THAT IS VALUABLE TO HER. >> Reporter: IT WAS PHILIP, APPARENTLY WHO ENCOURAGED THE QUEEN TO MAKE THAT FAMOUS SPEECH CELEBRATING DIANA AMP ACCUSED BEING TOO STOIC, ALOOF AND ROYAL. >> IN GOOD TIMES AND BAD SHE NEVER LOST HER CAPACITY TO SMILE AND LAUGH OR TO INSPIRE OTHERS WITH HER WARMTH AND KINDNESS. [ BELLS RINGING ] >> Reporter: AT ALL TIMES FORCED TO WALK TWO STEPS BEHIND ELIZABETH, BUT IN LIFE THEY WERE EQUAL PARTNERS. THEY HAD FOUR CHILDREN AND A LOVING, ENDURING MARRIAGE. AS CONSORT TO THE BETWEEN, PRINCE PHILIP SUPPORTED OVER 800 CHARITIES MADE OVER 620 SOLO VISITS TO 143 COUNTRIES AND TRAVELED THOUSANDS OF MILES ACROSS THE GLOBE WITH THE QUEEN ON TOURS AND STATE VISITS BUT NEVER GRABBING THE SPOTLIGHT FOR HIMSELF. >> FROM BEING IN SORT OF ARE THE SHADOWS AND BEING A SUPPORT. HE DOES IT FANTASTICALLY WELL. NEVER COMPLAINED. IT'S OBVIOUS FOR ALL OF US AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT SEES IS GOING ON THE FACT WITHOUT HIM, SHE, SHE WOULD BE SLIGHTLY LOST, I THINK. >> Reporter: HE LIVED TO WATCH HIS BELOVED GRANDCHILDREN GET MARRIED MAKING IT TO THE WEDDING OF HARRY AND MEGHAN IN 2018 WHILE RECOVERING FROM A HIP OPERATION AND SAW A NEW GENERATION OF ROYALS, INCLUDING PRINCE GEORGE, FUTURE HEIR TO THE THRONE, AND MEGHAN AND HARRY ARE EXPECTING A SECOND CHILD ADDING TO THE LEGACY PRINCE PHILIP LEFT BEHIND. RETIRED IN PUBLIC DUTIES IN 2017. FINAL PUBLIC APPEARANCE LAST YEAR, COLONEL IN CHAIR TO DUCHESS OF CORNWALL, NEARLY 100 MILES AWAY. PHILIP'S ROLE AS THE MAN BEHIND THE THRONE DID FLOT GO UNNOTICED PT QUEEN SPOKE OF IT ON THEIR 50th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY IN 1997. >> ALL THE TIME LISTEN TO ME SPEAKING. HE IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T TAKE EASILY TO COMPLIMENTS BUT HE HAS QUITE SIMPLY BEEN MY STRENGTH AND STAY ALL OF THESE YEARS, AND I AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY OWE HIM A DEBT GREATER THAN HE WOULD EVER CLAIM OR WE SHALL EVER KNOW. >> THANKS TO AMY ROBACH FOR THAT. BACK TO LONDON AND OUR FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT WITH REACTION TO PRINCE PHILIP'S PASSING. GOOD MORNING. WE HEARD BORIS JOHNSON THE PRIME MINISTER TALK ABOUT PRINCE PHILIP. WHAT MORE CAN YOU TELL US HOW THE COUNTRY IS REACTING? >> Reporter: DIANE, YOU CAN IMAGINE ENORMOUS OUTPOURING FROM AROUND THE WORLD. PHILIP ESSENTIALLY THE MOST FAMOUS HUSBAND. LONGEST SERVING CONSORT IN THE MANY HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF BRITISH HISTORY. A LOT OF TRIBUTES FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE. FIRST AND FOREMOST IN BORIS JOHNSON AND THIS IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY THIS MORNING. >> PRINCE PHILIP EARNED THE AFFECTION OF GENERATIONS HERE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH, AND AROUND THE WORLD. HE WAS THE LONGEST SERVING CONSORT IN HISTORIES. ONE OF THE LAST SURVIVING PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY TO HAVE SERVED IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR. HE WAS MENTIONED IN DISPATCHES FOR BRAVERY, AND THE IN THE INVASION OF SICILY WHERE HE SAVED HIS SHIP BY HIS QUICK THINKING. FROM THAT CONFLICT HE TOOK AN ETHIC OF SERVICE HE APPLIED THROUGHOUT THE UNPRECEDENTED CHANGES OF THE POST-WAR ERA. WE REMEMBER THE DUKE FOR ALL OF THIS AND ABOVE ALL FOR HIS STEADFAST SUPPORT FOR HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN. NOT JUST AS HER CONSORT, BY HER SIDE -- >> Reporter: WE HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF OTHER TRIBUTES COMING IN AND ACTUALLY IN THE LAST FEW MINUTES, PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, VISITED THE WHITE HOUSE IN 2007 BY THE PRINCE AND THE QUEEN, SADDENED TO LEARN ABOUT HIS PASSING. DEVOTED HIMSELF TO WORTHY CAUSES AND OTHERS HE REPRESENTED THE UNITED KINGDOM WITH DIGNITY AND GROUND SUPPORT TO THE SOVEREIGN -- LAURA AND I ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE ENJOYED THE CHARM AND WIT OF HIS COMPANY. POURING IN FROM A LOT OF WORLD LEADERS. MALCOLM TURNBULL, AUSTRALIA, HEAD OF STATE THERE OF THE COMMONWEALTH, TURNBULL SAYING THE PRINCE GAVE A GENERATION WE WILL NEVER SEE AGAIN SAYING PHILIP WAS NO STRANGER TO AUSTRALIA HAVING VISITED OUR COUNTRY ON MORE THAN 20 OCCASIONS. ON TO SAY AUSTRALIANS SEND THEIR LOVE AND DEEPEST CONDOLENCES TO HER MAJESTY AND THE ROYAL FAMILY. THE COMMONWEALTH FAMILY JOINS TOGETHER IN SORROW AND THANKSGIVING FOR THE LOSS AND LIFE OF PRINCE PHILIP. GOD BLESS FROM ALL HERE IN AUSTRALIA. SIMILAR REMARKS FROM NORWAY'S KING, SECOND COUSIN TO THE QUEEN, AND ALSO SECOND COUSIN ONCE REMOVED TO PRINCE PHILIP. THOUGHTS WITH YOU AND PRAYERS. INDIA'S PRIME MINISTER. IRISH LEADER CAME OUT AND SPEAK, PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN YUNIO. THESE TRIBUTES WILL COME IN ALL DAY. HE IS ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS PEOPLE REALLY TO EVER HAVE LIVED IN BRITAIN AND JUST A KIND OF A FIGURE IN PUBLIC LIFE. CERTAINLY ALL OF MY LIFE FOR SEVEN DECADES. VERY DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE NOW BRITAIN WITHOUT HIM FOR MANY OF US HERE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM. SO I THINK THESE TRIBUTES ARE GOING TO KEEP COMING, DIANE? >> YES. WE'LL HEAR TRIBUTES COMING IN ALL DAY FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, JAMES, BUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE COMMONWEALTH? >> Reporter: WELL, I THINK FIRST AND FOREMOST, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE COMMONWEALTH YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE 2.4 MILLION PEOPLE. THEY LIVE IN SOME OF THE RICHEST AND SOME OF THE POOREST COUNTRIES ON EARTH, AND PHILIP WAS, HE WAS WONDERLUST. LOVED TO TRAVEL. TRAVELED WITH THE QUEEN ON BASICALLY EVERY FOREIGN TRIP WHEN THEY WENT TO THE COMMONWEALTH SOME 143 COUNTRIES. THE THING ABOUT IT, VERY YOUNG AND THESE ARE PARTS OF THE WORLD WHERE ISSUES THAT PHILIP WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT ARE THE AT THE FOREFRONT. CONSERVATION. HEAD OF THE WORLD WILDLIFE FOUNDATION AND THINGS LIKE MOTIVATING YOUNG PEOPLE. THE DUKEEDINBURGH, BIGGEST LEGACY HERE IN THE UNITED K KINGDOM AND AROUND THE WORLD. YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUNG ADULTS BETWEEN AGES 12 TO 15, I DID IT WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL, GO OUT AND LEARN WHAT IT IS TO FEND FOR YOURSELF, TO VOLUNTEER. TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE. TO KIND OF IMPROVE YOUR KIND OF ABILITIES IN ALL PARTS OF LIFE. IT'S AN ADVENTURE. IT'S MOUNTAINEERING, GETTING OUT IN THE WILD. IT'S ABOUT BEING IN TOUCH WITH NATURE THP THIS IS ONE OF HIS MAJOR LEG SIS. HELPING YOUNG PEOPLE FROM ALL KINDS OF BACKGROUNDS AND ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH. I THINK HE'LL BE MISSED AS LEADER, PIONEER OF THAT AND THOUGHT TO BE RADICAL WHEN HE LAUNCHED IT. OF COURSE, IT'S ONE OF HIS ENDURING LEGACIES. THERE WERE COMMENTS MADE OVER THE YEARS, VARIOUS TRIPS, THAT PERHAPS WERE KIND OF ILL-THOUGHT, OR MAYBE SORT OF IN BAD TASTE AND BROUGHT PRESS AT THE TIME. ULTIMATELY, REFLECTED GLORY OF THE QUEEN THAT HITS PHILIP. PEOPLE WILL MISS HIM, BECAUSE THEY LOVE HER. >> THANKS FOR THAT FROM LONDON. THANKS, JAMES. >>> BRING IN ROBERT JOBSON FOR MORE. ROBERT WHAT DOES THE LOSS OF PRINCE PHILIP MEAN FOR THE ROYAL FAMILY? >> Reporter: OH, IMMENSE. THE REALITY IS, THE QUEEN IS HEAD OF STATE. PRINCE PHILIP WAS VERY MUCH HEAD OF THE FAMILY. SOMEBODY THAT, ALL MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY WERE TURN TO IN TIMES OF NEED. A CHARACTER ACTUALLY MISJUDGED OVER THE YEARS. SOMEBODY EMPATHETIC WITH PROBLEMS FACED BY PEOPLE SUCH AS THE LATE DIANA, PRINCESS OF WALES AND SARAH FERGUSON WHEN SHE CENTERED THE POLYFAMILY AND THEN FOUND IT DIFFICULT. I DO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN MALIGNED OVER THE YEARS IN TERMS OF -- I BELIEVE HE'S SOMEBODY THAT REALLY DID HIS DUTY. HE WAS THE LEAD MAN TO THE QUEEN AND SOMEBODY THAT FULFILLED THAT ROLE. SOMEBODY THAT WOULD SHINE THE LIGHT ON HIS WIFE AND DID THAT WITH GREAT DIGNITY, AND WAS ALWAYS ABLE TO SORT OF STAY OUT OF THE LIMELIGHT IN THAT RESPECT. >> WE HEARD JAMES TALK A LITTLE ABOUT HIS LEGACY. HOW DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO BE REMEMBERED? >> WELL, I THINK ACTUALLY WHEN WE REFLECT UPON HIS PASSING, THIS IS WHEN WE'LL SEE EXACTLY WHAT HE CONTRIBUTED. IN THE PAST, SEEMS EASY TO NOT REALLY SAY HE DID AN AWFUL LOT, BUT HE DID AN AWFUL LOT IN TERMS OF HIS CHARITY WORK. IN SUPPORTING THE QUEEN, I THINK IS HOW HE'LL BE REMEMBERED. SOMEBODY THAT REALLY, ENABLED HER TO REIGN WITH SUCH DIGNITY AND CLASS, THAT SHE WAS ABLE, REALLY, TO DO HER JOB -- HE WOULD BE SOMEBODY WHO WOULD MAKE THE QUEEN LAUGH. I THINK THAT'S HALF THE BATTLE, WHEN YOU'VE GOT SUCH AN IMPORTANT, SERIOUS JOB. >> SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE CITIZENS THERE IN THE UK? WHAT WILL THE NEXT FEW DAYS AND WEEKS LOOK LIKE THERE? >> WOMENTHERE WILL BE A PERIOD MOURNING AND THE FUNERAL VERY DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE'RE STILL UNDER CORONAVIRUS RESTRICTIONS HERE BECAUSE OF THE VIRUS AND THAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE WAY THE FUNERAL WILL TAKE PLACE. APPARENTLY WITH THE QUEEN FOR SIGNING OFF. NO MASS AREAS OF PEOPLE TO GATHER, EVEN THE FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT THAT'S OUTSIDE BUCKINGHAM PALACE A SHORT WHILE TAKEN DOWN TO AVOID CROWDS GATHERING. DIFFERENT FROM THE POMP AND PAGEANTRY YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN IN THE U.S. BEFORE. QUITE LOW-KEY. CENTERED AROUND WINDSOR CASTLE, AND THE CEREMONY TAKING PLACE WITH A LOT FEWER PEOPLE, TOO. IN A THAT RESPECT IT'S SAD. BUT SOMEBODY ABSOLUTELY LOATHED BEING IN THE SPOTLIGHT AND ASKED ABOUT BECOMING -- YOU KNOW, HOW IS HE GOING TO CELEBRATE HIS 100th BIRTHDAY? HE SAID HE COULDN'T THINK OF ANYTHING WORSE. IN A WAY, SADLY -- SADLY, HE GOT HIS WISH AT NOT MAKING HIS 100th BIRTHDAY BUT QUITE SHY WHEN IT CAME TO SELF-PRAISE AND ALWAYS OF THIS. IN A WAY, PROBABLY PREFERRING PASSING AWAY PRIOR TO THOSE CELEBRATIONS. >> HONORED IN A WAY HE WOULD HAVE PREFERRED, NOT AS MUCH FUSS UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, ROBERT. REGARDLESS HOW SMALL THE SERVICES WILL BE I ASSUME THEY'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THE FAMILY AT THE VERY LEAST. ANY INCLINATION WHETHER OR NOT MEGHAN AND HARRY WILL ATTEND THE SERVICES? >> OF COURSE, STILL COVID RESTRICTIONS IN TERMS OF PEOPLE QUARANTINING. IT WOULD BE VERY STRANGE IF HARRY DIDN'T COME TO THE FUNERAL. I'M NOT SURE THAT MEGHAN NECESSARILY WOULD. WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE. WE WOULD EXPECT IT TO BE A MUCH SMALLER FUNERAL. AT SAINT GEORGE'S CHAPEL, THE GOTHIC CHAPEL WITHIN THE WALLS OF WINDSOR CASTLE. I WOULD HOPE HE WOULD GET THERE. THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS IN FLYING AND QUARANTINING, SUCH THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE, THEY'D HAVE TO ABIDE BY, AND THE QUEEN AND ROYAL FAMILY, FROM WHAT WE UNDERSTAND, ARE VERY KEEN THAT THE CEREMONY WILL TAKE PLACE UNDER THE SAME RESTRICTIONS OF EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE UK, THAT THEY'RE HAVING TO ABIDE BY. >> ROBERT JOHNSON, RICHARD THE ANALYSIS. THANK YOU. >> MY PLEASURE. >>> AND THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN RESUMES WITHIN THE HOUR. THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER WHO PERFORMED THE AUTOPSY ON GEORGE FLOYD IS SET TO TAKE THE STAND. MORE WHAT WE CAN EXPECT INSIDE THE MINNEAPOLIS COURTROOM TODAY, WHEN WE COME BACK. WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE, SO MUCH ON THE LINE, MORE AMERICANS TURN HERE THAN ANY OTHER NEWSCAST. ABC NEWS "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" WITH DAVID MUIR. >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST ACROSS ALL OF TELEVISION. >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS. LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREE ON APPLE PODCAST. >> ROBIN ROBERTS, MICHAEL STRAHAN, WAKE UP WITH AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST WATCHED MORNING SHOW. ABC'S "GOOD MORNING AMERICA." >> THE WINNER SECOND STRAIGHT YEAR WITH THE EDWARD R. MURROW AWARD. ABC'S NUMBER ONE NEWS SOURCE. >> WELCOME BACK. WE'RE JUST MOMENTS AWAY FROM THE OPENING BELL ON WALL STREET. STOCKS ENDED MIXED YESTERDAY FOLLOWING NEWS OF 744,000 PEOPLE FILING FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS LAST WEEK. THAT WAS SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN EXPECTED. INVESTORS WILL ALSO BE LOOKING AT THE LATEST ON PRESIDENT BIDEN'S INFRASTRUCTURE BILL AS HE STARTS TO MOVE THAT FORWARD AND GET SOME PUSH BACK FROM REPUBLICANS AND NEGOTIATES ARE ONGOING. OF COURSE, INVESTORS WILL BE WATCHING TO SEE HOW THAT BILL ENDS UP MOVING FORWARD TO ANALYZE ITS IMPACT ON THE ECONOMY. AND THERE IS THE OPENING BELL. WE WANT TO TURN NOW TO THE DEADLY SHOOTING IN AT A WORKPLACE IN TEXAS. ONE PERSON IS DEAD AND MULTIPLE PEOPLE INJURED. POLICE DO NOW HAVE A SUSPECT IN CUSTODY. KAYLEE HARTUNG IS IN BRIAN, TEXAS, WITH THE LATEST. >> ACTIVE SHOOTER. MANUFACTURING PLANT. >> Reporter: THIS MORNING ONE PERSON IS DEAD AND FOUR EMPLOYEES OF A TEXAS CABINET-MAKING BUSINESS FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES AFTER A COWORKER ALLEGEDLY OPENED FIRE INSIDE THIS OFFICE COMPLEX. >> I WAS WITH MY COWORKER. I HEARD LIKE, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM. >> Reporter: POLICE RESPONDED THURSDAY AFTERNOON TO KENT MORE CABINETS IN BRIAN, TEXAS, ONE DEAD, FIVE SHOT AND WOUNDED. BUT THE GUNMAN WAS ALREADY GONE. POLICE CHASING HIM ACROSS COUNTY LINES. THEN A CONFRONTATION. THE SUSPECT SHOOTING A TEXAS STATE TROOPER AND DRIVING OFF AGAIN. >> HE HAS BEEN LIFE FLIGHTED TO SAINT JOSEPH'S HOSPITAL IN BRIAN WHERE HE IS IN SURGERY NOW IN STABLE CONDITION. >> Reporter: THE SUSPECT IDENTIFIED BY POLICE AS 27-YEAR-OLD LARRY BOLIN TAKEN INTO CUSTODY NEARLY TWO HOURS AFTER HE ALLEGEDLY FIRED HIS FIRST SHOTS. POLICE HAVE NOT COMMENTED ON A POSSIBLE MOTIVE, BUT BOLIN'S FAMILY SAID HE WAS INVOLVED IN AN ONGOING DISPUTE WITH A GROUP OF COWORKERS, EXCLUSIVELY TELLING ABC NEWS IN A STATEMENT, PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE THE SITUATION UNTIL YOU HEAR ALL THE FACTS. >>> AND THE STATE TROOPER IS IN SERIOUS AND STABLE CONDITION THIS MORNING. THE GUNMAN IS UNHARMED. HE'S FACING A MURDER CHARGE AND BEING HELD ON A MILLION DOLLARS BOND. ABC'S KAYLEE HARTUNG, THANKS FOR THAT. >>> AND IN SOUTH CAROLINA, INVESTIGATORS ARE TRYING TO UNCOVER A MOTIVE AFTER A MASS SHOOTING IN ROCK HILL. A DOCTOR, HIS WIFE, THEIR TWO GRAND KIDS AND A MAN WORKING AT THEIR HOUSE WERE ALL KILLED. POLICE SAY THE ALLEGED SHOOTER, FORMER NFL PLAYER PHILIP ADAMS LATER TOOK HIS OWN LIFE. ABC'S WILL REEVE HAS THE LATEST. >> Reporter: THIS MORNING A SEARCH FOR ANSWERS, AUTHORITIES TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT DROVE NFL PLAYER ADAMS TO GUN DOWN SIX PEOPLE, KILLING FIVE. >> HOW MANY SHOTS DID YOU HEAR? >> ABOUT 20. IT'S AUTOMATIC. I THINK THERE'S TWO WORKERS OUTSIDE AND MISS LESLIE IS ON THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE. 99 >> WE'RE INSIDE THE HOUSE. >> Reporter: A PROMINENT LOCAL DOCTOR, ROBERT LESLIE, HIS WIFE AND TWO GRANDCHILDREN. GUNS DOWN IN THEIR HOME. OUTSIDE 38-YEAR-OLD JAMES LEWIS WHO HAD BEEN WORKING AT THE PROPERTY ALSO FOUND DEAD. ROBERT SHOOK, A COWORKER, SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. >> THE DESCRIPTION WE'RE GETTING IS A BLACK MAN WEARING BLACK CLOTHING CARRYING SOMETHING RED, POSSIBLY AUTOMATIC GUN. >> Reporter: EVIDENCE LEFT AT THE SCENE LED TO PHILIP ADAMS. POLICE LEFT THE HOUSE JUST AFTER 2:30 IN THE MORNING TO FIND ADAMS DEAD OF A SELF-INFLICTED GUNSHOT WOUND. >> INTERCEPTED BY PHILIP ADAMS. >> Reporter: ADAMS PLAYED FOR SIX TEAMS, SUFFERING A CONCUSSION IN 2012. HE RETIRED IN 2015. ADAMS' FATHER TELLING A LOCAL STATION WCNC, HIS SON NEVER BOTHERED ANYBODY. >> HE WAS A GOOD KID. I THINK THE FOOTBALL MESSED HIM UP. >> Reporter: LAST NIGHT I MET THE MAYOR OF ROCK HILL AT HIS HOME. HE WAS A CLOSE FRIEND OF THE WESLEYS AND HE TOLD ME THROUGH TEARS HE'LL REMEMBER HIS FRIENDS AS FUN AND KIND AND GENEROUS AND FULL OF LIFE AND LOVE AND HOPE. THAT SENTIMENT OF HOPE SHARED IN A FAMILY STATEMENT THAT READS IN PART, QUOTE, WE DO NOT GRIEVE AS THOSE WITHOUT HOPE. OUR HEARTS ARE BENT TOWARD FORGIVENESS AND PEACE. DIANE? >> ALL RIGHT, ABC'S WILL REEVE. THANKS FOR THAT. >>> AND PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS UNVEILED NEW MEASURES TARGETING GUN VIOLENCE. ANNOUNCEMENT JUST HOURS BEFORE THAT TEXAS SHOOTING. OUR SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT MARY BRUCE HAS A LOOK AT WHAT COMES NEXT. GOOD MORNING, MARY. >> Reporter: DIANE, AS THE NEWS BROKE OF THESE TWO MORE SHOOTINGS IN THIS COUNTRY, PRESIDENT BIDEN HERE AT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS LAYING OUT WHAT HE'S DESCRIBED AS THE FIRST STEPS TO TRY AND CURB THIS VIOLENCE WHICH HE CALLED AN EPIDEMIC AND AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THIS COUNTRY. AND HE IS, OF COURSE, URGING CONGRESS TO DO MORE. THE PRESIDENT, THOUGH, IN THE MEANTIME IS USING HIS KPERKTIVE AUTHORITY DO CRACK DOWN ON SO-CALLED GHOST GUNS. THESE ARE THE AT-HOME KITS THAT CAN ALLOW YOU TO BUILD A GUN THAT HAS NO SERIAL NUMBER AND CANNOT BE TRACED. THE PRESIDENT IS ALSO TRYING TO LIMIT THE USE OF STABILIZING BRACES WHICH CAN ESSENTIALLY TURN A PISTOL INTO A SHORT BARREL LIKE THE ONE USED IN THE RECENT RAMPAGE IN BOULDER THAT LEFT TEN PEOPLE DEAD. THE PRESIDENT IS ALSO CALLING FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO LAYOUT A TEMPLATE THAT STATES CAN USE TO TRY AND ENACT RED FLAG LAWS. SO THAT THESE WHO HAVE BEEN DEEMED A THREAT CANNOT HAVE ACCESS TO FIREARMS. THE REALITY IS ALL OF THESE ACTIONS ARE LIMITED AND FALL FAR SHORT OF THE SWEEPING REFORMS THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS PROMISED. HE HAD SAID THAT HE WANTS TO BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS AND HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES. HE'S CALLED FOR STRICTER BACKGROUND CHECKS. AND HE DID PROMISE TO SEND THE LEGISLATION TO THE HILL ON DAY ONE. WHEN I PRESSED THE WHITE HOUSE ABOUT THIS, THEY INSIST THE PRESIDENT ISN'T HESITATING AND THAT HE IS PRESSURING CONGRESS TO ACT. THE POLITICAL REALITY, THOUGH, OF COURSE, IS DESPITE WHAT SEEM LIKE THESE NEVER ENDING MASS SHOOTINGS, THERE IS VERY LITTLE APPETITE FROM REPUBLICANS AND EVEN SOME DEMOCRATS ON CAPITOL HILL TO ACT ON THESE KINDS OF BIG CHANGES THAT THE PRESIDENT IS ASKING FOR. DIANE? >> ALL RIGHT, MARY BRUCE, THANKS. AND TESTIMONY IN THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL WILL GET STARTED IN JUST A LITTLE WHILE. IT'S A BIG DAY FOR THE CASE AS THE MEDICAL EXAMINER WHO CONDUCTED GEORGE FLOYD'S AUTOPSY FINALLY TAKES THE EXTEND. LET'S CHECK IN WITH ZORENE SHAW WITH WHAT WE CAN EXPECT. HI, ZORENE. >> Reporter: IT IS DAY 10 OF THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL. ANTICIPATED TESTIMONY FROM ANDREW BAKER IS EXPECTED TODAY. NOW, HIS REPORT HAS BEEN SCRUTINIZED, SLICED AND DICED BY BOTH SIDES. BOTH SIDES SEE SOMETHING IN IT THAT CAN HELP THEIR CASE. HE SAYS THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS HOMICIDE. THAT HELPS THE PROSECUTORS' CASE. BUT HE SAYS THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS CARDIAC ARREST COMPLICATED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT AND HE DOESN'T MENTION ASPHYXIA. THAT IS THE WHERE THE BOD CITY DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN THAT CAN LEAD TO DEATH. THAT LEADS TO THE DEFENSE'S CASE. THEY SAY FLOYD DIED BECAUSE OF HIS HEART CONDITION AND BECAUSE OF DRUG USE, BUT EVERY MEDICAL EXPERT BROUGHT UP SO FAR BY THE STATE HAS DISPUTED THAT THEORY. MIND YOU, IT IS UNUSUAL FOR THE STATE TO CALL EXPERT WITNESSES WHO DIFFER FROM THEIR OWN MEDICAL EXPERTS. NOW, BAKER'S TESTIMONY IS EXPECT TODAY COME AFTER A GRIPPING DAY YESTERDAY WHERE EXPERT MARTIN TOEB IN TESTIFIED THAT WHAT FLOYD WENT THROUGH WOULD HAVE KILLED A HEALTHY PERSON. AND THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS LOW LEVELS OF OXYGEN. HE ALSO POINTS TO A VERY SPECIFIC MOMENT WHERE CHAUVIN'S BOOT IS UP OFF THE GROUND. HE SAYS THAT INDICATES HIS ENTIRE BODY WEIGHT WAS ON FLOYD. HE SAYS THAT IT WAS THE OFFICER'S ACTIONS WHICH CAUSED THE DEATH AND NOTHING ELSE. DIANE? >> ALL RIGHT, ZORENE SHAW, THANK YOU. AND THAT DOES IT FOR THIS ABC NEWS LIFE UPDATE. WE WILL HAVE LIVE COVERAGE OF THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL AS SOON AS IT RESUMES. WE'LL SEE YOU THEN. STAY SAFE. forward >>> WELCOME BACK TO "GMA." YOU'RE LOOKING >>> ABC NEWS. >> YOU'RE LOOKING LIVE AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE WAS WE ARE LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE BREAKING NEWS. PRINCE PHILIP, THE HUSBAND OF QUEEN ELIZABETH, HAS PASSED AWAY AT THE AGE OF 99. PHILIP AND ELIZABETH WERE MARRIED MORE THAN 70 YEARS, MAKING HIM THE LONGEST-SERVING SPOUSE OF A BRITISH MONARCH IN HISTORY. LET'S GO BACK TO MAGGIE RUELY WITH THE VERY LATEST FROM THE PALACE. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, MAGGIE. >> Reporter: HI, MICHAEL. GOOD MORNING. YEAH, THE FLAG BEHIND ME STILL AT HALF STAFF. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF WHAT WE EXPECTED TO BE ABOUT EIGHT DAYS OF MOURNING FOR THE COUNTRY AFTER PRINCE PHILIP'S DEATH. THE ROYAL FAMILY WE EXPECT TO HAVE 30 DAYS OF MOURNING, BUT WE ARE STILL WAITING TO HEAR WHAT HIS FUNERAL PLANS COULD LOOK LIKE. OBVIOUSLY THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, THE ENTIRE COMMONWEALTH. WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM WORLD LEADERS. DUE TO CORONAVIRUS RESTRICTIONS AND THE LOCKDOWNS, IT'S GOING TO BE MUCH SMALLER. BUT CERTAINLY THIS WILL BECOME A MOMENT FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD TO FOCUS ON PRINCE PHILIP'S LEGACY. HE STOOD BY THE QUEEN THE ENTIRE TIME THAT SHE HAS LED THIS COUNTRY. HE'S HAD MORE THAN 20,000 SOLO ENGAGEMENTS, MORE THAN 2,000 TRIPS THROUGHOUT THE U.K. AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. TODAY OBVIOUSLY WE ARE MOURNING, BUT WE ARE ALSO CELEBRATING HIS LIFE BECAUSE, MICHAEL, 99 YEARS, JUST TWO MONTHS SHY OF HIS 100th BIRTHDAY, HE LIVED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE DAYS. HE CERTAINLY LEAVES BEHIND A LEGACY. AS WE LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW THAT IS GOING TO BE CELEBRATED IN THE U.K. THROUGHOUT THE COMMONWEALTH, HE HAS LEFT HIS MARK. WE ARE ALSO GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE QUEEN. MICHAEL, I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK OF HER THIS TIME. THEY GOT MARRIED IN THEIR HE RECALLED 20s. THEY GREW UP TOGETHER. THEY SHAPED WHAT THE COMMONWEALTH, WHAT THIS COUNTRY LOOKS LIKE TOGETHER. AND NOW, MICHAEL, TODAY IS THE FIRST TIME SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TO RULE WITHOUT HER PARTNER BY HER SIDE. SO STILL A LOT MORE DETAILS WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT, MICHAEL. IT FEELS LIKE THE END OF AN ERA IN BRITAIN. MICHAEL? >> WE HAVE THAT FEELING HERE AS WELL. MAGGIE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> ROBERT JOHNSON NOW ON PRINCE FILL ILL. LET'S START BY TALKING ABOUT WE SAW PRINCE PHILIP IN PUBLIC. TALK ABOUT THE ROLE HE PLAYED BEHIND THE SCENES FOR THESE LAST 73 YEARS. >> WELL, GEORGE, HE REALLY WAS THE STAY OF THE QUEEN THROUGHOUT HER REIGN. HIS MAIN OBJECTIVE WAS TO SERVE HER, HIS WIFE. BUT ALSO TO SERVE HER AS HIS QUEEN. HE WAS, AS SHE DESCRIBED HIM, A STAY. HIS JOB WAS TO SHINE THE LIGHT ON HER. HE WAS ALWAYS A FEW STEPS BEHIND, BUT MAKING SURE EVERYTHING WAS CORRECT FOR HER. I THINK THE LAST FIVE YEARS OR SO SINCE HIS RETIREMENT, YOU KNOW, HE'S BEEN MISSED IN PUBLIC LIFE. BUT MORE MISSED BY HER. I THINK, YOU KNOW, SHE LOOKED RATHER LONELY FIGURE SOMETIMES WHEN SHE WAS OUT ON ENGAGEMENTS AS HE SPENT MOST OF HIS RETIREMENT AWAY FROM THE PALACE AT THE FARM. FORTUNATELY CORONAVIRUS HAS BROUGHT SO MANY TERRIBLE TRAGEDIES. WHAT IT DID FOR HER MAJESTY AND THE DUKE WAS BRING THEM BOTH TOGETHER IN MANY WAYS BECAUSE THEY REALLY HAD TO SELF-ISOLATE TOGETHER WITH THE CASTLE. AND THEY WERE TOGETHER FOR THE ENTIRE LAST PERIOD OF HIS LIFE. THE MONTH HE SPENT IN HOSPITAL WHERE HE HAD PROBLEMS WITH HIS HEART AND KIDNEY INFECTION. YOU CAN'T UNDER ESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS MAN IN TERMS OF -- IT REALLY WAS A DOUBLE ACT FOR HER MAJESTY, THE LONGEST-REIGNING MONARCH IN HISTORY. WITHOUT HIM AT HER SIDE, I DON'T THINK SHE COULD HAVE DONE THE GREAT JOSH B SHE'S DONE. >> EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE HIS WICKED WIT BROKE OUT IN PUBLIC. >> IF YOU CONCENTRATE ON HIS GAFFS AND INAPPROPRIATE REMARKS. YOU REMEMBER THAT HE'S A MAN OF HIS TIME. YOU KNOW, 99 YEARS OLD. HE NORMALLY WOULD BASICALLY BE GOING INTO A ROOM AND PICK SOMEONE OUT TO TRY TO ENGAGE WITH AND GET A LAUGH FROM. SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SO ON EDGE WHEN THE ROYAL FAMILY COME TO MEET THEM. HE WAS ABLE TO SORT OF LIGHTEN THE MOOD. EVERYONE HAD A GOOD TIME. ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHAT HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO DO. >> HE COMES FROM A LONG LINE OF ROYALTY. HE WAS PRINCE PHILIP OF GREECE ORIGINALLY BUT GREW UP SOMETHING OF A PAUPER. >> IT IS SURPRISING. I THINK HE GOT MARRIED WITH LESS THAN A FEW POUNDS IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT. LIKE THE QUEEN, HE WAS A GRANDSON OF QUEEN VICTORIA. COMING FROM THE DANISH AND GERMANIC ROYAL FAMILIES THAT WERE INTER MARRIED VERY MUCH IN THE 19th CENTURY. AND HE THEN WAS THE PRINCE OF GREECE AS WELL. THEY WERE BROUGHT IN REALLY FROM OUTSIDE TO BE THE ROYAL FAMILY OF GREECE. SO HE WAS VERY MUCH AN INTERNATIONAL MAN. SPOKE MANY, MANY LANGUAGES, WAS A VERY GOOD ARTIST, AN OIL PAINTER. SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVED IN -- THE HEAD OF REALLY THE -- TRYING TO SAVE THE PLANET AND WORLD WILDLIFE, SETTING UP THE WORLD WILDLIFE FUND FOR NATURE. HE WAS A VISIONARY PERSON. I THINK WE OVER CARICATURIZED HIM FOR HIS WITTY REMARKS. >> HE CARED FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. HE HAD SOMETHING OF OF A FRACTIOUS RELATIONSHIP WHEN PRINCE CHARLES WAS YOUNG. THAT MEANS MORE OF A RESPONSIBILITY, MORE OF A BURDEN ON PRINCE CHARLES. >> REALLY, AT THE MOMENT, GEORGE, WE'RE IN A TIME OF TRANSITION WITH THE QUEEN IN HER 90s. MORE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY IS FALLING ON THE PRINCE OF WALES. IT'S ALMOST LIKE HE'S A QUASI--LIKE KING ALREADY. WITH THE DEPARTING OF THE DUKE, HE WOULD TAKE THAT ROLE AS HEAD OF THE FAMILY EVEN MORE. YES, THEY DID HAVE A BIT OF A FRACTIOUS RELATIONSHIP. I THINK REALLY SHE WANTED TO TOUGHEN UP PRINCE CHARLES. SHE SAW HIM AS A BIT OF A SHY YOUNG MAN AND DIDN'T THINK HE WAS WHAT HE NEEDED AS A FUTURE KING. ACTUALLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, SINCE -- CERTAINLY IN HIS 90s, THE PRINCE OF WALES AND THE DUKE OF EDINBOROUGH HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP, CLOSE RELATIONSHIP. I EXPECT THE PRINCE OF WALES LATER TO ADDRESS THE NATION ON BEHALF OF HIS MOTHER ABOUT HIS FATHER'S LEGACY. >> IT'S BEEN SUCH A DIFFICULT YEAR FOR THE QUEEN AND HER FAMILY. HARD TO IMAGINE HOW SHE CAN HANDLE THIS NOW. >> HER MAJESTY IS A DEEPLY RELIGIOUS PERSON. SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN BLESSED -- SHE WILL FEEL BLESSED THAT SHE HAS HAD HER HUSBAND ALONGSIDE HER FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. HE'S HAD SUCH A LONG AND FULL LIFE. I'M SURE THAT SHE WILL BE PRAYING TODAY FOR HIM AND, OF COURSE, DEEPLY SAD. BUT SHE'LL BE MORE, I WOULD THINK, BE LOOKING TO CHERISH THE MEMORIES OF THE GOOD TIMES THEY HAD TOGETHER AND TO CHERISH THE LEGACY THAT HE'S LEFT. >> ROBERT JACKSON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT. >> WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE, SO MUCH ON THE LINE, MORE AMERICANS TURN HERE THAN ANY OTHER NEWSCAST. ABC NEWS "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" WITH DAVID MUIR. >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST-WATCHED NEWSCAST ACROSS ALL OF TELEVISION. >> ADMIT IT. THESE DAYS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW -- >> SEEMS TO CHANGE -- >> EVERY DAY. >> WHAT IS IT THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW? NEED TO KNOW? >> TO HELP YOU NOT JUST GET THROUGH YOUR DAY >> BUT TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT. FEEL SMARTER. >> FEEL BETTER. >> FEEL HAPPIER. >> WELL, HOW ABOUT A THIRD HOUR OF "GOOD MORNING AMERICA"? >> IN THE AFTERNOON. >> GMA 3. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. LUNCHTIME AT 1:00 EASTERN, 12:00 CENTRAL AND PACIFIC ON ABC. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU. >> ROBIN ROBERTS, GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, MICHAEL STRAHAN. WAKE UP WITH AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST-WATCHED MORNING SHOW. ABC'S "GOOD MORNING AMERICA." >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS. LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREE ON APPLE PODCAST. >> ABC WINNER OF THE SECOND STRAIGHT YEAR WITH THE ED WAR R. MURRO AWARD. AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS SOURCE. >> FRIDAY NIGHTS, MIAMI CENTRAL, TRUE CRIME. CINEMATIC, REAL-LIFE DRAMA. STUNNING, THE UNTHINKABLE. THE HUNT, TRUE CRIME. 20/20 FRIDAY NIGHTS ON ABC. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> REALITY IS THE COUNTRY CAN COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> YOU'LL SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVEMENT ON THE MARCH. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> THE NEO-NAZIS, SKIN HEADS. >> FROM THE KKK TO OKLAHOMA CITY, THE NEW DOCUMENTARY. >> WE JUST NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE. >> HOME GROWN HATE, THE OURA M THE WAR AMONG US. >> ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. NUMBER ONE IN THE MORNING, NUMBER ONE IN THE EVENING WITH AMERICA'S MOST-WATCHED NEWSCAST. NUMBER ONE IN LATE NIGHT VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE NEWS MAGAZINE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS. NUMBER ONE IN POLITICS. ACROSS THIS HISTORIC ELECTION VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE DAY-TIME TALK SHOW. AND NUMBER ONE IN STREAMING NEWS. ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. >>> WITH MORE ON THE BREAKING NEWS THIS MORNING, THE DEATH OF PRINCE PHILIP. THE HUSBAND OF QUEEN ELIZABETH PASSING AWAY AT THE AGE OF 99 AFTER A SERIES OF HEALTH ISSUES. AMY ROBACH IS HERE WITH HIS ROYAL LEGACY. GOOD MORNING, AMY. >> GOOD MORNING, MIKE MANY. A SHORT TIME AGO, THE DEATH ANNOUNCEMENT CARRIED OUT TO THE GATES OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE. PHILIP AND ELIZABETH WERE MARRIED NEARLY 74 YEARS, MAKING HIM THE LONGEST-SERVING SPOUSE OF A BRITISH MONARCH IN HISTORY. THE DUKE OF EDINBOROUGH RETIRED FROM ROYAL DUTIES IN 2017. BUT HERE'S MUCH MORE ON THE BELOVED FIGURE. ♪ FOR OVER 73 YEARS HE STOOD BY HIS QUEEN'S SIDE. HER MOST LOYAL AND FAITHFUL SUBJECT, PRINCE PHILIP OF GREECE WAS AN 18-YEAR-OLD CADET IN THE BRITISH ROYAL NAVY WHEN A 13-YEAR-OLD PRINCESS ELIZABETH FIRST TOOK A SHINE TO HIM BACK IN 1939. THE TWO WERE MARRIED IN NOVEMBER OF 1947. FIVE YEARS LATER, ELIZABETH ASCENDED TO THE THRONE AND PHILIP GAVE UP HIS CAREER TO SERVE THE QUEEN IN HIS DUTY. >> MY GRANDFATHER ASSISTED THE MILITARY AND THE NAVY. HE GAVE IT ARNOLD PALL UP TO DO AND SUPPORT THE QUEEN. >> IT WAS PHILIP WHO ENCOURAGED THE QUEEN TO CELEBRATE DIANA AFTER GRIEVING BRITAIN ACCUSED HER OF BEING TOO STOIC, TOO ALOOF AND TOO ROYAL. >> IN GOOD TIMES AND BAD, SHE NEVER LOST HER CAPACITY TO SMILE AND LAUGH, NOR TO INSPIRE OTHERS WITH HER WARMTH AND KINDNESS. >> Reporter: AT ALL TIMES FORCED TO WALK TWO STEPS BEHIND ELIZABETH, BUT IN LIFE THEY WERE EQUAL PARTNERS. THEY HAD FOUR CHILDREN AND A LOVING ENDURING MARRIAGE. >> BEING IN THE SHADOWS AND BEING SUPPORT, BUT HE DOES IT FANTASTICALLY WELL. HE'S NEVER COMPLAINED. >> IT'S OBVIOUS FROM ALL OF US AND IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY ELSE THE FACT THAT WITHOUT HIM, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD BE SLIGHTLY LOST, I THINK. >> Reporter: PHILIP'S ROLE AS THE MAN BEHIND THE THRONE DID NOT GO UNNOTICED. THE QUEEN HERSELF EVEN SPOKE OF IT ON THEIR 50th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY IN 1997. >> ALL TOO OFTEN I FEAR PRINCE PHILIP HAS HAD TO LISTEN TO ME SPEAKING. HE IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T TAKE EASILY THE COMPLIMENTS. BUT HE HAS QUITE SIMPLY BEEN MY STRENGTH AND STAY ALL THESE YEARS. AND I AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY OWE HIM A DEBT GREATER THAN HE WILL EVER CARE OR SHALL EVER KNOW. >> AND PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON SPOKE MOMENTS AGO. LET'S LISTEN. >> ON THE AFFECTION OF GENERATIONS HERE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH AND AROUND THE WORLD. >> SO MANY PEOPLE, OF COURSE, AND TRIBUTES ARE POURING IN FOR THE PRINCE. GEORGE? >> AMY, THANKS. LET'S BRING IN OUR WORLD CONTRIBUTORS, VICTORIA MURPHY AND ALISTAIR BRUCE. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US NOW. ALISTAIR, LET'S BEGIN WITH YOU AND JUST YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE IMPACT THE PRINCE HAS HAD ON THE MONARCHY, ON QUEEN ELIZABETH. >> OH, IT'S BEEN IMMENSE. I THINK EVER SINCE THE QUEEN FELL MADLY IN LOVE WITH HIM, WAY BACK ALMOST IN HER YOUTH, AND THEN MARRIED HIM IN 1947, THIS WAS SAID IN YOUR PACKAGE JUST THEN. THERE HAS BEEN NOTHING SHORT OF A COMPLETE EMINATION IN HIM. TO LOSE HIM TODAY WILL BE VERY SAD FOR THE QUEEN. SHE IS OF AN AGE WHERE SHE WILL UNDERSTAND THAT DEATH IS A PART OF LIFE, AND THAT AT THE END OF WHAT MUST BE ONE OF THE MOST REMARKABLE LIVES, WITH THE SERVICE IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR, WITH THE ENERGETIC, ALMOST REVOLUTIONARY ATTITUDE TO HOW THE MONARCHY SHOULD CHANGE, TO WRITE HIS TIME AS HUSBAND OF THE QUEEN, AND NOW LEAVING HER IN THE VERY LATER STAGES OF HER REIGN WITH A TREMENDOUS LEGACY, HUGELY LINKED IN TO HIS WISDOM, DETERMINATION, WIT, AND ENERGY. >> VICTORIA, THEY DID INDEED MODERNIZE THE MONARCHY. >> I THINK THAT'S COMPLETELY TRUE. IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY PRINCE PHILIP AND THE QUEEN, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR 90s, BUT VERY MUCH I THINK ACROSS THE GENERATIONS, WE SAW THAT. YEAH, I MEAN PHILIP WAS THE FIRST MINEMBER OF THE ROYAL FAMY TO GIVE A TELEVISION INTERVIEW. HE WAS VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN MODERNIZING AND REMAINING RELEVANT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE MONARCHY TO MODERNIZE. SHE PRESIDED OVER SO MANY CHANGES. AND I THINK THAT WILL PROBABLY BE THE SADDEST THING NOW. THEY HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY -- FOR 73 YEARS. THAT'S HOW LONG THEIR MARRIAGE WAS. HE WAS VERY, VERY ACTIVE AND VERY, VERY HARD AT WORK UP UNTIL JUST A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN HE RETIRED. SO I THINK SEEING THE QUEEN CUTTING A LONELY FIGURE WILL BE ONE OF THE MOST POIGNANT THINGS ABOUT THIS FOR MANY PEOPLE. >> IS IT EVER DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO HAVE TO WALK THOSE TWO STEPS BEHIND? >> NOT AT ALL, NO. HE WAS ALWAYS AWARE THAT WHEN HE MARRIED THE QUEEN, THAT SHE WAS GOING TO BE SOVEREIGN, NOT ONLY THE UNITED KINGDOM, BUT NATIONS AROUND THE WORLD, NOT LEAST CANADA. IN ORDER TO SUPPORT HER, HE HAD TO RECOGNIZE THAT SHE WAS THE FOCUS FOR EVERYBODY AS QUEEN. AND HE WAS BORN INTO THE GREEK ROYAL FAMILY OBVIOUSLY IT WAS A DIFFICULT TIME IN WORLD HISTORY. HE JUST UNDERSTOOD BECAUSE HE'D BEEN BROUGHT UP AS A MEMBER OF A ROYAL FAMILY. IN ROYAL FAMILIES, THE ONLY PERSON WHO MATTERS IS THE MONARCH. EVERYBODY ELSE IS THERE TO SUPPORT THE MONARCHY IN THE WORK THAT IS DONE. AND WITH THE QUEEN'S WORK PRINCE PHILIP IS ABSOLUTELY SUPPORTED IT TO A T IN EVERY RESPECT. AND SHE'LL MISS HIM LIKE MAD. BUT AS I SAY, THEY ARE OF AN AGE, AND ONCE THE UNITED KINGDOM WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO HIS 100th BIRTHDAY, I'M ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN PRINCE PHILIP WASN'T. >> YOU SAY SHE WAS MADLY IN LOVE WITH HIM. TALK ABOUT THAT LOVE STORY. >> IT WAS A REAL LOVE STORY, A LOVE MATCH. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE CENTURIES, THEY WEREN'T LOVE MATCHES, THEY WERE ARRANGED MATCHES. THIS WAS VERY MUCH LOVE MATCH. THE QUEEN WHEN SHE WAS PRINCESS ELIZABETH, FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG. THEY WERE EXCHANGING LETTERS AND THEN THEY WERE ENGAGED AND MARRIED IN 1947. AND SHE, ACCORDING TO HER COUSIN, SHE NEVER LOOKED AT ANYONE ELSE. AND REALLY THAT HAS BEEN AN ENDURING LOVE MATCH THAT WE HAVE SEEN THROUGH THE YEARS, AND WE'VE SEEN THEM TO GO ON TO HAVE FOUR CHILDREN, EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN, MANY GREAT GRANDCHILDREN. THAT NUMBER IS STILL GROWING. WHAT AN INCREDIBLE KIND OF FAMILY REALLY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN. >> AND, ALISTAIR, AMY SAID IN HER PIECE HOW PRINCE PHILIP CONVINCED THE QUEEN TO GIVE THAT SPEECH AFTER THE DEATH OF PRINCESS DIANA. TALK ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS GRANDSONS WILLIAM AND HARRY. >> I THINK HE WAS ALWAYS THERE AS A GREAT TEMPLATE OF SERVICE AND OF MILITARY SERVICE AT THAT. HE WAS, I THINK IN HIS OWN WAY, PRETTY COOL. HE HAD BEEN VERY DASHING AS A YOUNG MAN. AND I THINK THAT'S WHY THE QUEEN WAS SO MADLY IN LOVE WITH HIM. RIGHT THE WAY THROUGH HER LIFE WITH HIM. AND I THINK THAT THAT TEMPLATE OF EXAMPLE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AVAILABLE TO HIS -- ALL HIS GRANDCHILDREN, BUT NOT LEAST PRINCE WILLIAM WHO WILL ONE DAY BE KING, AND ALSO PRINCE HARRY WHO HAS A TOUGHER ROLE TO PERFORM BECAUSE THE DIRECTION OF HIS ROLE IS VERY DIFFERENT. AND I THINK THAT PRINCE PHILIP HAS SEEN IN HIS OWN CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN IT'S VERY TOUGH TO BE IN THIS FIGURE HEAD POSITION WHEN THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL JOURNEYS TO BE FOLLOWED AND ASPIRATIONS TO BE REACHED. AND PRINCE PHILIP HAS RECOGNIZED THAT HE HAD TO SET ASIDE HIS OWN NAVAL TRADITION AND CAREER IN ORDER TO BE THOSE FEW STEPS BEHIND THE QUEEN IN HER ACHIEVEMENT AS SOVEREIGN FOR SUCH A LONG REIGN. >> VICTORIA, UPS AND DOWNS OVER THE COURSE OF 74 YEARS. PRINCE PHILIP HAD TO BECOME SOMETHING OF A CRISIS MANAGER AS WELL. >> WI >> WELL, THAT'S TRUE, YES. HE DIDN'T HAVE THE HEAD OF THE FAMILY. ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING WAS THE DEATH OF PRINCESS DIANA. THEY NEEDED TO STAY STRONG TOGETHER. THERE WAS, OF COURSE, THAT FAMOUS -- WE UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT HAPPENED WAS PRINCE PHILIP SAID TO WILLIAM AND HARRY WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WALKING BEHIND THEIR MOTHER'S COFFIN, I'LL WALK IF YOU WALK. THAT IS ATTRIBUTED TO HIM THAT WAS SAD. I THINK VERY MUCH THE HEAD OF THE FAMILY STAYING STRONG FOR THE FAMILY, OFTEN A FIGURE WHO OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WOULD GO TO FOR ADVICE AND SEEK COUNSEL FROM. VERY MUCH UNDERSTANDING, YOU KNOW, THE POSITION OF BEING IN THE SPOTLIGHT, BEING THRUST INTO THE SPOTLIGHT AND HAVING ALL OF THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES PLACED ON YOU. >> WHAT IS THE GREATEST CRISIS THEY FACED AS A FAMILY? >> WELL, I THINK IT'S NO DIFFERENT FROM ANY FAMILY. THERE ARE ALWAYS CHALLENGES. I THINK FOR PRINCE PHILIP, THE PURPOSE OF HIS ROLE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER THE CHALLENGES WERE, NOT LEAST THE FACT THAT FOR THE QUEEN AS HEAD OF STATE OF MANY NATIONS, WHILE THE WORLD IS GOING THROUGH A PANDEMIC, THAT PUTS HUGE PRESSURE. I THINK ONE FORGETS THAT. FAMILY ISSUES ARE ONE THING. BUT JUST IMAGINE, YOU SEE IN THE CORONATION SERVICE, THE QUEEN WAS MARRIED TO HER ROLE AS SOVEREIGN. SO HE HAD TO BE THE BROKER OF THAT MARRIAGE, OF THE HEAD OF STATE TO A NATION THROUGHOUT HER LIFETIME. I THINK WHEN YOU IMAGINE ALL THE TIMES IN WHICH THE UNITED KINGDOM HAD TO GO INTO MILITARY CAMPAIGNS AROUND THE WORLD OUT IN THE FALK LAND ISLANDS OR AFGHANISTAN, ALL THE NEWS THAT CAME BACK TO THE QUEEN OF YOUNG LIVES LOST, FIGHTING IN HER NAME WHICH IS WHAT IS DONE, IT MUST HAVE PUT GREAT PRESSURE ON HER. BUT HE ALWAYS HAD A GREAT WIT, A GREAT CHARM, A DIRECTNESS. AND I THINK THAT THAT HELPED HER. BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS ABLE TO TEASE HER AND SLIGHTLY HELP HER THROUGH THE DIFFICULT TIMES. >> IMPORTANT PERSPECTIVE. ALISTAIR BRUCE, VICTORIA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> WE'LL GUIDE YOU THROUGH IT ALL TONIGHT. WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. [ APPLAUSE ] >> WE TELL ALL OUR PATIENTS THEY ARE LOVED. WE HOLD THEIR HANDS. >> DAVID, WE'RE SHOWING OUR LOVE AND SUPPORT FOR ALL THE I.C.U. STAFF. >> THEY'RE THE HEROES IN THIS. >> NOW WHEN IT MATTERS MOST, THE STRAIGHTFORWARD FACTS, ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. NUMBER ONE IN THE MORNING. NUMBER ONE IN THE EVENING WITH AMERICA'S MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST. NUMBER ONE IN LATE NIGHT VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE NEWS MAGAZINE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS. NUMBER ONE IN POLITICS ACROSS THIS HISTORIC ELECTION VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE DAYTIME TALK SHOW, AND NUMBER ONE IN STREAMING NEWS. ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. >> THE REVOLUTION SO GOOD. >> REAL STORIES, REAL CONVERSATION. >> SOUL OF A NATION. >> TUESDAY AT 10:00, 9:00 CENTRAL ON ABC. >> SPONSORED BY PROGRESSIVE INSURANCE. >> GOOD MORNING. I AM DIANE MACEDO. THANKS FOR STREAMING WITH US. FROM BUCKINGHAM PAL IS, DUKE PHILIP HAS PASSED AWAY AT THE AGE OF 99. THE PALACE SAID, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS PASSED AWAY PEACEFULLY AT WINDSOR CASTLE. LET'S GET RIGHT TO MAGGIE RULLI FROM BUCKINGHAM PALACE WITH MORE ON THIS. MAGGIE, GOOD MORNING. >> Reporter: GOOD MORNING. WE SAW THE FLAG AS IT WAS LOWERED TO HALF STAFF THIS MORNING. THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE IT'S GOING TO STAY UNTIL THE DAY AFTER HIS FUNERAL. JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO, A NOTICE WAS ALSO POSTED ON THE RAILINGS OUTSIDE OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE HERE. OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF HOURS, I'VE JUST SEEN PEOPLE STREAMING IN AND OUT OF BUCKINGHAM PALACETION PAYING THEIR RESPECTS. WE'VE SEEN PEOPLE LAYING FLOWERS IN REMEMBRANCE OF HIS LEGACY. YOU KNOW, IN ADDITION TO THE PALACE DID RELEASE A STATEMENT ABOUT HIS DEATH THIS MORNING. I WANT TO READ A LITTLE TO YOU NOW. THE PALACE SAYS, IT IS WITH DEEP SORROW THAT HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN ANNOUNCES THE DEATH OF HER BELOVED HUSBAND, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS, THE PRINCE PHILIP DUKE OF ED IN BOROUGH. HE A PASSED AWAY PEACEFULLY AT WINDSOR CASTLE. WE TALKED THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS. WE KNEW PRINCE PHILIP WAS IN HOSPITAL FOR A MONTH FOR A HEART PROCEDURE. HE WAS RELEASED THREE WEEKS AGO. HE WAS ABLE TO SMENPEND HIS FIN THREE WEEKS, THE FINAL DAYS AT HIS HOME. THE LEGACY MOURNING HIM, BUT ALSO CELEBRATING HIS LIFE. 99 YEARS OLD. THAT'S AN INCREDIBLE LIFE. HE REALLY LIVED EVERY SINGLE DAY. WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT SOME OF THE WORK THAT HE'S ACCOMPLISHED AS THE PRINCE, HE HAD MORE THAN 20,000 SOLO ENGAGEMENTS, 20,000, DIANE, MORE THAN 2,000 TRIPS THROUGHOUT THE U.K. AND ABROAD. HE WAS A HARD-WORKING ROYAL. HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ROYAL TO TACKLE ENVIRONMENTALISM. IT IS A HUGE TENET HE SUPPORTED, SOMETHING HE PASSED ON TO HIS SON AND GRANDSONS. SOMETHING THEY WILL CHAMPION. HIS LEGACY WILL LIVE ON. WE ARE SEEING THE WORLD COMING OUT REMEMBERING HIM, MOURNING HIM AND TURNING TOWARDS THE QUEEN. I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO MENTION HER AS WELL TODAY BECAUSE WE'LL ALL BE MOURNING THE PASSING OF PRINCE PHILIP, THIS IS THE QUEEN'S FIRST DAY LEADING THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT HER PARTNER BY HER SIDE. IT'S BEEN THE TWO OF THEM SINCE THEY GOT MARRIED IN THEIR EARLY 20s. THEY GREW UP TOGETHER. THEY FORMED WHAT THE U.K. AND THE COMMONWEALTH LOOKED LIKE TOGETHER. LOOKING TOWARDS THE QUEEN AND THINKING OF THE ENTIRE ROYAL FAMILY AS WELL. >> A DIFFICULT DAY FOR THEM NO DOUBT, MAGGIE. WE KNOW IT'S EARLY, BUT I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE LEARNING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT FUNERAL PLANS? >> Reporter: YEAH, DIANE, EXACTLY. NORMALLY A ROYAL FUNERAL WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WAS COMMEMORATED WIDELY. IT SHUTS DOWN THE COUNTRY. OBVIOUSLY THESE ARE NOT NORMAL TIMES. WE ARE UNDER A STRICT LOCKDOWN HERE IN THE U.K.. THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC PRECAUTIONS ARE IN PLACE. EVEN WITH THIS GROUP GATHERING BEHIND US, WE'VE SEEN POLICE SORT OF MAKING SURE A CROWD DOESN'T GATHER OUTSIDE BUCKINGHAM PALACE. WHEN IT COMES TO FUNERAL PLANS, THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE DON'T KNOW. IT WILL BE SMALLER THAN NORMAL. WE EXPECT AN EIGHT DAY MOURNING PERIOD, OFFICIAL MOURNING PERIOD FOR THE U.K.. THE ROYAL FAMILY HAS A 30-DAY MOURNING PERIOD AS WELL. WHATEVER THE SIZE OF THIS IS, THE WHOLE COUNTRY WILL DEFINITELY TAKE A MOMENT TO REFLECT ON PHILIP AND HIS LEXI. WE'VE ALREADY SEEN STATEMENTS POURING IN FROM WORLD LEADERS. THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF PEOPLE REALLY REMEMBERING HIS LEGACY AND TALKING ABOUT THE WORK THAT HE'S DONE AS A PRINCE. DIANE? >> ALL RIGHT, MAGGIE RULLI FOR US IN LONDON. THANKS, MAGGIE. QUEEN ELIZABETH AND PRINCE PHILIP WERE MARRIED ALMOST 74 YEARS. MAKING HIM THE LONGEST SERVING SPOUSE IN ROYAL HISTORY. HE CONTINUED TO WATCH HIS ROYAL FAMILY GROW FROM THEIR FOUR CHILDREN, CHARLES AND ANDREW AND EDWARD TO THEIR EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN AND NOW NINE GREAT GRANDCHILDREN. AMY ROBACH HAS MORE ON THE LEGACY OF PRINCE PHILIP. >> Reporter: FOR OVER 73 YEARS HE STOOD BY HIS QUEEN'S SIDE. HER MOST LOYAL AND FAITHFUL SUBJECT, PRINCE PHILIP OF GREECE WAS AN 18-YEAR-OLD CADET IN THE BRITISH ROYAL NAVY WHEN A 13-YEAR-OLD PRINCESS ELIZABETH FIRST TOOK A SHINE TO HIM BACK IN 1939. THE TWO WERE MARRIED IN NOVEMBER OF 1947. FIVE YEARS LATER, ELIZABETH ASCENDED TO THE THRONE AND PHILIP GAVE UP HIS CAREER TO SUPPORT HIS QUEEN IN HER DUTY. >> MY GRANDFATHER HAD A SUCCESSFUL CAREER IN THE MILITARY IN THE NAVY. HE GAVE IT ALL UP TO DO HIS JOB, TO BE THERE TO SUPPORT THE QUEEN. >> Reporter: IN 2011 HE SPOKE TO THE BBC ABOUT THE CHALLENGES THOSE EARLY YEARS PRESENTED WHEN IT CAME TO HIS NEW ROLE. >> THE PROBLEM IS TO RECOGNIZE WHAT THE NICHE WAS AND TO TRY AND GROW INTO IT, AND THAT WAS BY TRIAL AND ERROR. THERE WAS NO PRECEDENT. >> SO YOU'RE FIRST AND FOREMOST TO SUPPORT THE QUEEN. >> YES. >> WHAT DOES THAT INVOLVE? >> HELPING HER AND SUPPORTING HER, DOING ANYTHING THAT IS VALUABLE TO HER. >> Reporter: IT WAS PHILIP, APPARENTLY, WHO ENCOURAGED THE QUEEN TO MAKE THE FAMOUS SPEECH CELEBRATING DIANA AFTER BRITAIN ACCUSED HER OF BEING TOO STOIC, TOO ALOOF AND TOO ROYAL. >> IN GOOD TIMES AND BAD, SHE NEVER LOST HER CAPACITY TO SMILE AND LAUGH, NOR TO INSPIRE OTHERS WITH HER WARMTH AND KINDNESS. >> Reporter: AT ALL TIMES, FORCED TO WALK TWO STEPS BEHIND ELIZABETH, BUT IN LIFE THEY WERE EQUAL PARTNERS. THEY HAD FOUR CHILDREN AND A LOVING ENDURING MARRIAGE. AS CONSORT TO THE QUEEN, PRINCE PHILIP SUPPORTED OVER 800 CHARITIES, MADE OVER 620 SOLO VISITS TO 143 COUNTRIES AND TRAVELED THOUSANDS OF MILES ACROSS THE GLOBE WITH THE QUEEN ON TOURS AND STATE VISITS. BUT NEVER GRABBING THE SPOTLIGHT FOR HIMSELF. >> IT MUST HAVE BEEN QUITE THE FOOT FOR HIM BEING IN THE SHADOWS AND BEING THE SUPPORT. BUT HE DOESN'T FANTASTICALLY WELL. HE'S NEVER COMPLAINED. >> IT'S OBVIOUS FROM ALL OF US AND IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY ELSE WHO SEES IT GOING ON. WITHOUT HIM, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD BE SLIGHTLY LOST, I THINK. >> Reporter: HE LIVED TO WATCH HIS BELOVED GRANDCHILDREN GET MARRIED, MAKING IT TO THE WEDDING OF HARRY AND MEGHAN IN 2018 WHILE RECOVERING FROM A HIP OPERATION. HE ALSO SAW THE BIRTH OF A NEW GENERATION OF ROYALS, INCLUDING PRINCE GEORGE, THE FUTURE HEIR TO THE THRONE. AND HARRY AND MEGHAN ANNOUNCING A SECOND CHILD ADDING TO THE GREAT GRANDCHILDREN THAT PRINCE PHILIP HAS LEFT BEHIND. ♪ HE RETIRED FROM HIS PUBLIC DUTIES IN 2017. HIS FINAL PUBLIC APPEARANCE WAS IN JULY OF LAST YEAR, HANDING OVER HIS ROLE AS COLONEL IN CHIEF OF THE RIFLES TO CAMILLA, THE DUCHESS OF CORNWALL WHO WAS NEARLY 100 MILES AWAY. PHILIP'S ROLE THE MAN BEHIND THE THRONE DID NOT GO UNNOTICED. THE QUEEN HERSELF EVEN SPOKE OF IT ON THEIR 50th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY IN 1997. >> ALL TOO OFTEN I FEAR PRINCE PHILIP HAS HAD TO LISTEN TO ME SPEAKING. HE IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T TAKE EASILY TO COMPLIMENTS. BUT HE HAS QUITE SIMPLY BEEN MY STRENGTH AND STAY ALL THESE YEARS. AND I AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY OWE HIM A DEBT GREATER THAN HE WOULD EVER CARE OR WE SHALL EVER KNOW. >> OUR THANKS TO AMY ROBACH FOR THAT. I WANT TO GO BACK TO LONDON NOW AND FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT JAMES WITH SOME REACTION TO PRINCE PHILIP'S PASSING. JAMES, GOOD MORNING. WE HEARD BORIS JOHNSON THE PRIME MINISTER TALK ABOUT PRINCE PHILIP'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS. WHAT MORE CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE LEGACY HE LEAVES BEHIND AND HOW THE COUNTRY IS REACTING? >> Reporter: WELL, DIANE, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, THERE IS AN ENORMOUS OUTPOURING FROM AROUND THE WORLD. I MEAN PHILIP WAS ESSENTIALLY THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS HUSBAND. HE WAS THE LONGEST SERVING CONSORT IN THE MANY YEARS OF BRITISH HISTORY. WE HAVE A LOT OF TRIBUTES COMING IN FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON. AND THIS IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY THIS MORNING. >> PRINCE PHILIP EARNED THE AFFECTION OF GENERATIONS HERE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH, AND AROUND THE WORLD. HE WAS THE LONGEST-SERVING CONSORT IN HISTORY, ONE OF THE LAST SURVIVING PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY TO HAVE SERVED IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR. AT CAPE MATTER PAN WHERE HE WAS MENTIONED IN DISPATCHES FOR BRAVERY AND IN THE INVASION OF SICILY WHERE HE SAVED HIS SHIP BY HIS QUICK THINKING. AND FROM THAT CONFLICT HE TOOK AN ETHIC OF SERVICE THAT HE APPLIED THROUGHOUT THE UNPRECEDENTED CHANGES OF THE POST-WAR ERA. WE REMEMBER THE DUKE FOR ALL OF THIS. AND ABOVE ALL, FOR HIS STEADFAST SUPPORT FOR HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN. NOT JUST AS HER CONSORT. BY HER SIDE. >> Reporter: AND WE HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF OTHER TRIBUTES COMING IN. ACTUALLY IN THE LAST FEW MINUTES, PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH ACTUALLY WHO WAS VISITED AT THE WHITE HOUSE IN 2017 BY THE QUEEN AND PRINCE PHILIP, HE AND HIS WIFE LAURA SAY THEY ARE SADDENED TO LEARN OF THE PASSING OF PRINCE PHILIP, THE DUKE OF EDINBOROUGH. THROUGHOUT HIS LONG AND REMARKABLE LIFE HE DEVOTED HIMSELF TO WORTHY CAUSES AND TO OTHERS HE REPRESENTED THE UNITED KINGDOM WITH DIGNITY AND BROUGHT BOUNDLESS STRENGTH TO THE SOVEREIGN. HE GOES ON TO SAY LAURA AND I ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE ENJOYED THE CHARM AND WIT OF HIS COMPANY AND WE KNOW HOW MUCH HE'LL BE MISSED. THIS IS COMING IN FROM A LOT OF WORLD LEADERS NOW. THE AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER, THE QUEEN IS HEAD OF STATE THERE. MALCOLM TURN BULL SAYING THE PRINCE EMBODIED A GENERATION WE WILL NEVER SEE AGAIN. PRINCE FILL I AM WAS NO STRANGER TO AUSTRALIA, VISITING OUR COUNTRY ON MORE THAN 20 OCCASIONS. HE SAID AUSTRALIANS SEND OUR LOVE AND DEEPEST CONDOLENCE TO HER IMAGINE INDUSTRY AND THE FAMILY. THEY JOIN TOGETHER IN SORROW AND THANKSGIVING FOR THE LOSS AND LIFE OF PRINCE PHILIP. GOD BLESS FROM ALL HERE IN AUSTRALIA. WE'VE HAD SIMILAR REMARKS FROM NORWAY'S KING, WHO IS THE SECOND COUSIN TO THE QUEEN AND SECOND COUSIN ONCE REMOVED. INDIA'S PRIME MINISTER, WE HAD THE IRISH LEADER COME OUT AND SPEAK. URSULA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN UNION. THESE TRIBUTES ARE GOING TO BE COMING IN ALL DAY. HE IS ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS PEOPLE REALLY TO HAVE LIVED IN BRITAIN AND BEEN KIND OF OF A FIGURE IN PUBLIC LIFE. CERTAINLY ALL MY LIFE FOR SEVEN DECADES. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE NOW BRITAIN WITHOUT HIM FOR MANY OF US HERE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM. SO I THINK THESE TRIBUTES ARE GOING TO KEEP COMING. DIANE? >> NO DOUBT WE'RE GOING TO HEAR TRIBUTES COMING IN ALL DAY FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, JAMES. BUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE COMMONWEALTH? >> Reporter: WELL, I THINK, FIRST AND FOREMOST, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE COMMONWEALTH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE 2.4 BILLION PEOPLE. THEY LIVE IN SOME OF THE RICHEST, BUT ALSO THE POOREST COUNTRIES ON EARTH. AND PHILIP WAS -- HE WAS A PIONEER. HE LOVED TO TRAVEL. HE WAS A LINGUIST. HE SPOKE FRENCH AND GERMAN FLUENTLY. HE TRAVELED WITH THE QUEEN ON BASICALLY EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HER FOREIGN TRIPS. WHEN SHE WENT TO THE COMMONWEALTH, SOME 143 COUNTRIES. THE THING ABOUT THE COMMONWEALTH, IT'S VERY DIVERSE, IT'S VERY YOUNG. AND THESE ARE, THESE ARE PARTS OF THE WORLD WHERE ISSUES THAT PHILIP WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT ARE AT THE FOREFRONT. THINGS LIKE CONSERVATION. HE WAS HEAD OF THE WILDLIFE FOUNDATION. AND THINGS LIKE MOTIVATING YOUNG PEOPLE, THE DUKE OF EDINBOROUGH AWARD IS ONE OF HIS BIGGEST LEGACIES HERE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND AROUND THE WORLD. 144 COUNTRIES, FROM AGE 12 TO 15 LEARN WHAT IT IS TO FEND FOR YOURSELF, TO VOLUNTEER, TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE, TO IMPROVE YOUR KIND OF ABILITIES IN ALL PARTS OF LIFE. IT'S AN ADVENTURE. IT'S ABOUT MOUNTAIN EARRING, IT'S ABOUT GETTING OUT IN THE WILD. IT'S ABOUT BEING IN TOUCH WITH NATURE. THIS IS REALLY ONE OF HIS MAJOR LEGACIES, HELPING YOUNG PEOPLE FROM ALL KINDS OF BACKGROUNDS. AND IT'S ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH. AND I THINK HE'LL BE MISSED AS THE LEADER, THE PIONEER OF THAT. IT WAS THOUGHT TO BE VERY RADICAL WHEN HE LAUNCHED IT. NOW, OF COURSE, IT'S ONE OF HIS ENDURING LEGACIES. THERE WERE COMMENTS THAT HE MADE OVER THE YEARS ON VARIOUS DIFFERENT TRIPS THAT PERHAPS WERE KIND OF ILL THOUGHT OR MAYBE SORT OF IN BAD TASTE AND THEY GOT A LOT OF PRESS AT THE TIME. BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S THE REFLECTED GLORY OF THE QUEEN. PEOPLE WILL MISS HER. >> THANKS FOR THAT, JAMES. I WANT TO BRING IN ROBERT JOBSON FOR MORE ON THIS. ROBERT, WHAT DOES THE LOSS OF PRINCE PHILIP MEAN FOR THE ROYAL FAMILY? >> WELL, IT'S IMMENSE. THE REALITY IS THE QUEEN IS THE HEAD OF STATE. PHILIP WAS VERY MUCH THE HEAD OF THE FAMILY. HE WAS SOMEBODY THAT THEY -- ALL MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY WOULD TURN TO IN HOURS OF NEED. I THINK HIS CHARACTER HAS BEEN MISJUDGED OVER THE YEARS. HE'S SOMEBODY THAT WAS EMPATHETIC WITH THE PROBLEMS FACED BY PEOPLE SUCH AS THE LATE DIANA, PRINCESS OF WALES, AND SARAH FERGUSON WHEN SHE ENTERED THE ROYAL FAMILY AND FOUND IT DIFFICULT. SO I DO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN MALIGNED OVER THE YEARS IN TERMS, BUT I DO BELIEVE HE IS SOMEBODY THAT DID HIS DUTY. HE WAS THE LEAST MAN AS HE SWORE TO BE LIFE AND LIMB TO THE QUEEN, AND HE IS SOMEBODY THAT FULFILLED THAT ROLE WITH A PLUM. HE WAS TO SHINE A LIGHT ON HIS WIFE AS SOVEREIGN, AND HE DID THAT WITH GREAT DIGNITY AND WAS ALWAYS ABLE TO SORT OF STAY OUT OF THE LIMELIGHT. >> AND WE HEARD JAMES TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS LEGACY. HOW DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO BE REMEMBERED? >> WELL, I THINK ACTUALLY, WHEN WE REFLECT UPON HIS PASSING, THIS IS WHEN WE'LL SEE EXACTLY WHAT HE CONTRIBUTED. IN THE PAST I THINK HE SEEMED TO NOT REALLY THINK HE DID AN AWFUL LOT. BUT HE DID AN AWFUL LOT IN TERMS OF HIS CHARITY WORK. BUT IN SUPPORTING THE QUEEN, I THINK HE'LL BE REMEMBERED. HE'S SOMEBODY THAT REALLY ENABLED HER TO REIGN WITH SUCH DIGNITY AND CLASS THAT SHE WAS ABLE REALLY TO DO HER JOB WITH A BIT OF LAUGHTER, TOO. HE WOULD BE SOMEBODY WHO WOULD MAKE THE QUEEN LAUGH. I THINK THAT'S HALF THE BATTLE WHEN YOU'VE GOT SUCH AN IMPORTANT AND SERIOUS JOB. >> SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE CITIZENS THERE IN THE U.K.? WHAT WILL THE NEXT FEW DAYS AND WEEKS LOOK LIKE THERE? >> WELL, THERE WILL BE A PERIOD OF MOURNING, BUT OF COURSE, THIS FUNERAL WILL BE VERY DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE'RE STILL UNDER COVID RESTRICTIONS HERE DUE TO THE CORONAVIRUS. AND THAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT UPON THE WAY THE ARRANGEMENTS, THE FUNERAL WILL TAKE PLACE. THEY'RE CURRENTLY WITH THE QUEEN FOR SIGNING OFF. THERE WILL BE NO MASS AREAS OF PEOPLE TO GATHER. EVEN THE FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENTS OUTSIDE BUCKINGHAM PALACE FOR A SHORT WHILE HAS BEEN TAKEN DOWN TO AVOID CROWDS GATHERING. SO IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY DIFFERENT FUNERAL TO THE POMP AND PAGEANTRY YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN IN THE U.S. BEFORE. IT'S GOING TO BE QUITE LOW KEY. I THINK IT WILL BE CENTERED AROUND WINDSOR CASTLE MAINLY WHERE THE CEREMONY WILL TAKE PLACE AND BE A LOT FEWER PEOPLE, TOO. SO, YES, IN THAT RESPECT IT WILL BE SAD, BUT THE DUKE OF EDINBOROUGH IS SOMEBODY WHO LOATHED IT. IN FACT, WHEN HE WAS ASKED ABOUT -- HOW IS HE GOING TO CELEBRATE HIS 100th BIRTHDAY, HE SAID HE COULDN'T THINK OF ANYTHING WORSE. SO IN A WAY SADLY, SADLY, HE GOT HIS WISH AT NOT MAKING HIS 100th BIRTHDAY. BUT HE WAS SOMEBODY WHO WAS ACTUALLY QUITE SHY WHEN IT CAME TO SELF-PRAISE. IN A WAY IT'S PROBABLY HE PREFER PASSING AWAY BEFORE THAT BIG CENTENARY CELEBRATIONS. >> HE WOULD HAVE PREFERRED WITHOUT AS MUCH FUSS UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES NOW, ROBERT. BUT I WONDER OBVIOUSLY REGARDLESS OF HOW SMALL THE SERVICES ARE GOING TO BE, I ASSUME THEY'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THE FAMILY AT THE VERY LEAST. SO IS THERE ANY INCLINATION OF WHETHER OR NOT MEGHAN AND HARRY WILL ATTEND THE SERVICES? >> OF COURSE, THERE IS STILL THE COVID RESTRICTIONS IN TERMS OF PEOPLE QUARANTINING. IT WOULD BE VERY STRANGE IF HARRY DIDN'T COME TO THE FUNERAL. I'M NOT SURE THAT MEGHAN NECESSARILY WOULD. WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE. WE WOULD EXPECT THERE TO BE A MUCH SMALLER FUNERAL AT SAINT GEORGE'S CHAPEL, THE GOTHIC CHAPEL WITHIN THE WALLS OF WINDSOR CASTLE. AND SO I THINK -- I WOULD HOPE HEED BE ABLE TO GET THERE. OF COURSE, THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS IN FLYING AND QUARANTINING SUCH THAT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE -- THEY'D HAVE TO ABIDE BY. THE QUEEN AND THE ROYAL FAMILY FROM WHAT WE UNDERSTAND ARE VERY KEEN THAT THE CEREMONY WILL TAKE PLACE UNDER THE SAME RESTRICTIONS EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE U.K. IS HAVING TO ABIDE BY. >> ALL RIGHT. ROBERT JOHNSON, WE APPRECIATE THE ANALYSIS. THANK YOU. >> MY PLEASURE. >> AND THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN RESUMES WITHIN THE HOUR WHERE THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER WHO PERFORMED THE AUTOPSY ON GEORGE FLOYD IS SET TO TAKE THE STAND. MORE ON WHAT WE CAN EXPECT INSIDE THE MINNEAPOLIS COURTROOM TODAY WHEN WE COME BACK. I know what happened and I'm not
guilty why the fascination with
criminal trials >> I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, AND I'M NOT GUILTY. >> WHY THE FASCINATION WITH CRIMINAL TRIALS? FIGURE OUT WHAT'S REALLY OUT THERE. >> SHE REVEALED SHE HAD MURDERED HIS FAMILY. >> I KNOW IN MY HEART THAT HE DID THIS. >> IT'S THE CRIME OF SUSPICION. >> THE ENDING IS REALLY TOUGH. >> YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER TRUTH IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO FIND. UNLESS YOU TRY TO FIND IT. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> REALITY IS OUR COUNTRY CAN COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> WHITE LIVES MATTER. >> YOU SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVEMENT ON THE MARCH. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> THE NAZIS, SKIN HEADS, IT'S A CYBER WAR. >> FROM KKK TO OKLAHOMA CITY, THE NEW DOCUMENTARY. >> WE NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE. >> HOME GROWN HATE, THE OWAR AMONG US. ON ABC NEWS LIVE. >> ADMIT IT. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW -- >> SEEMS TO CHANGE EVERY DAY. >> WHAT IS IT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW? NEED TO KNOW? >> TO NOT HELP YOU JUST GET THROUGH YOUR DAY >> MAKE THE MOST OF IT >> FEEL BETTER. >> FEEL HAPPIER. >> WELL, HOW ABOUT A THIRD HOUR OF "GOOD MORNING AMERICA"? >> IN THE AFTERNOON. >> GMA3. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. LUNCHTIME AT 1:00 EASTERN 12 CENTRAL AND PACIFIC ON ABC. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU. >> 24 HOURS, ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL. THE ABC NEWS ORIGINAL EXCLUSIVELY ON HULU. NOW STREAMING. WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE, SO MUCH ON THE LINE, MORE AMERICANS TURN HERE THAN ANY OTHER NEWSCAST. ABC NEWS, "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" WITH DAVID MUIR. >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST ACROSS ALL OF TELEVISION. >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS. LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREON APPLE POD CASTS. >> ROBIN ROBERTS, GEORGE STEPH NONLIST, MICHAEL STRAHAN. WAKE UP WITH AMERICA'S MOST WATCHED MORNING SHOW. ABC'S "GOOD MORNING AMERICA." >> ABC NEWS HONORED FOR THE SECOND STRAIGHT YEAR WITH THE EDWARD R. MURRO AWARD. ABC NEWS, AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS SOURCE. >> WELCOME BACK. THE MEDICAL EXAMINER IS EXPECTED TO TAKE THE STAND TODAY AFTER YESTERDAY'S DRAMATIC TESTIMONY AT THE TRIAL OF FORMER POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN. SEVERAL MEDICAL EXPERTS TOOK THE STAND, INCLUDING A LUNG SPECIALIST WHO SAYS IT'S CLEAR GEORGE FLOYD DIED FROM LOW OXYGEN AS A RESULT OF POLICE RESTRAINT, AND THAT WHAT HE WENT THROUGH WOULD HAVE KILLED A HEALTHY PERSON. ALEX PEREZ IS AT THE COURTHOUSE IN MINNEAPOLIS WITH MORE. >> Reporter: GRIPPING TESTIMONY FROM THE PROSECUTION'S MEDICAL EXPERT TESTIFYING ABOUT WHAT CAUSED GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH. >> THE CAUSE OF DEATH IS A LOW LEVEL OF OXYGEN THAT CAUSED THE BRAIN DAMAGE AND CAUSED THE HEART TO STOP. >> Reporter: DR. MARTIN TOBIN AN EXPERT ON BREATHING AND LUNG FUNCTION WALKED THE JURY THROUGH 3-D DIAGRAMS ILLUSTRATING THE FACTORS HE BELIEVED IMPACTED GEORGE FLOYD'S BREATHING AND DEATH. INCLUDING HIS BODY PRESSED AGAINST THE PAVEMENT, HANDCUFFS, BEING IN THE PRONE POSITION WITH KNEES ON HIS NECK, BACK, TORSO AND ARM. >> SO IF THIS IS YOUR WINDPIPE HERE. >> Reporter: DR. TOBIN DEMONSTRATING FOR THE JURY ASKING THEM TO FOLLOW ALONG ON THEIR OWN BODIES. MOST DID. PLACING THEIR HANDS ON THEIR NECKS AND THE PARTS OF THE ANATOMY THAT AFFECT BREATHING. ANALYZING THE VIDEO FRAME BY FRAME, POINTING TO CHAUVIN'S BODY POSITION IN THIS IMAGE. >> WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS THAT THE TOE OF HIS BOOT IS NO LONGER TOUCHING THE GROUND. THIS MEANS THAT ALL OF HIS BODY WEIGHT IS BEING DIRECTED DOWN AT MR. FLOYD'S NECK. >> Reporter: AND SHOWING JURORS HOW FLOYD STRUGGLED TO EVEN USING HIS HANDS TO TRY TO MAKE ROOM TO BREATHE AND STAY ALIVE. >> YOU SEE HIS KNUCKLE AGAINST THE TIRE. THIS IS EXTRAORDINARILY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THIS TELLS YOU THAT HE HAS USED UP HIS RESOURCES AND HE IS NOW LITERALLY TRYING TO BREATHE WITH HIS FINGERS AND KNUCKLES. >> Reporter: DR. TOBIN PINPOINTING THE EXACT DIFFICULT MOMENT HE SAYS FLOYD DIED ON THE GROUND UNDER CHAUVIN'S KNEE. >> YOU CAN SEE HIS EYES, HE'S CONSCIOUS. AND THEN YOU SEE THAT HE ISN'T. THAT'S THE MOMENT THE LIFE GOES OUT OF HIS BODY. >> Reporter: THE DOCTOR DESCRIBING WHAT HAPPENED WHEN FLOYD BECAME NONRESPONSIVE. >> THE KNEE REMAINS ON THE NECK FOR ANOTHER THREE MINUTES AND 27 SECONDS AFTER HE TAKES HIS LAST BREATH. AFTER THERE IS NO PULSE, THE KNEE REMAINS ON THE NECK FOR ANOTHER TWO MINUTES AND 44 SECONDS. >> Reporter: AND HE WAS EMPHATIC IT WAS THE OFFICER'S ACTIONS THAT KILLED FLOYD, NOTHING ELSE. >> A HEALTHY PERSON SUBJECTED TO WHAT MR. FLOYD WAS SUBJECTED TO WOULD HAVE DIED. AS A RESULT OF WHAT HE WAS SUBJECTED TO. >> Reporter: AND, DIANE, IT WAS NOTED SEVERAL TIMES JUST HOW CAPTIVATED THE JURY WAS WITH ALL OF THAT MEDICAL TESTIMONY. IT'S THE FIRST TIME THEY HEARD ABOUT GEORGE FLOYD'S CAUSE OF DEATH FROM MEDICAL EXPERTS. THEY ARE EXPECTING MORE TESTIMONY HERE ONCE THE TRIAL RESUMES. THE HENNEPIN COUNTY EXAMINER IS GOING TO BE CALLED BY THE PROGS CUSHION. DIANE? >> THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG ONE. THANK YOU. LET'S BRING IN ABC CONTRIBUTOR BRIAN BUCK MEYER FOR MORE ON THIS. BRIAN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE TODAY. AS WE HEARD ALEX MENTION -- >> Announcer: THIS IS AN ABC NEWS LIVE SPECIAL REPORT. THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. DEREK CHAUVIN ON TRIAL. >> GOOD MORNING. I'M DIANE MACEDO. WELCOME TO ABC NEWS LIVE TRIAL OF FORMER POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN CHARGED IN THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD'S. THE PROSECUTION HAS JUST CALLED DR. LYNDSAY THOMAS TO THE STAND. LET'S LISTEN. >> DR. THOMAS, IF YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING SO, WOULD YOU REMOVE YOUR MASK? I WILL KEEP MINE ON. >> I WOULD LOVE TO. >> LET'S HAVE YOU STATE YOUR NAME SPELLING YOUR NAME. >> LINDSEY, L-I-N-D-S-E-Y CAROL C-A-R-O-L THOMAS T-H-O-M-A. >> MR. BLACK WELL. >> THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING, DR. THOMAS. >> GOOD MORNING. >> WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT KIND OF DOCTOR YOU ARE? >> I'M A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST. >> WHAT IS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST? >> A FORENSIC PATHOLOGY IS A BRANCH OF PATHOLOGY, WHICH IS THE BRANCH OF MEDICINE WHERE MEDICINE AND LAW OVERLAP. SO, IT COULD BE ANYTHING WITH A MEDICAL AND LEGAL COMPONENT, COULD BE TOXICOLOGY. IN SOME CASES IT MAY INVOLVE LIVING PATIENTS, BUT AS I PRACTICE AND AS MOST FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS PRACTICE, IT INVOLVES WHAT'S CALLED MEDICAL LEGAL DEATH INVESTIGATION. >> DOES IT INVOLVE TAKING CARE OF PATIENTS IN THE CLINICAL SENSE? >> NOT LIVING PATIENTS, NO. A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST MAY BE CONSULTED TO HELP WITH THE EVALUATION AND INTERPRETATION OF INJURIES IN A LIVING PATIENT, BUT NOT IN THE TREATMENT OR CLINICAL SENSE. >> SO MOST OF YOUR WORK, THEN, IS DONE ON DECEASED PEOPLE? >> CORRECT. >> ANY SPECIFIC TYPES OF DEATHS? >> YES. THE STATE STATUTE'S LISTS THE TYPES OF DEATHS THAT HAVE TO BE REPORTED TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER. AND BRIEFLY THEY TEND TO BE UNNATURAL DEATHS, SO ACCIDENTS, SUICIDES, HOMICIDES, UNEXPECTED DEATHS, POTENTIALLY SUSPICIOUS DEATHS, THAT TYPE OF CATEGORY OF DEATH. >> DO YOU GET SPECIAL TRAINING IN HOW TO DETERMINE THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH IN -- >> YES. >> TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT THE SPECIAL TRAINING YOU RECEIVED. >> WELL, SHOULD I START BACK IN MEDICAL SCHOOL OR JUST THE END PART? >> JUST THE END PART. >> OKAY. I DID A FELLOWSHIP IN FORENSIC PATHOLOGY, WHICH IS A SPECIFIED TRAINING PROGRAM FOR DOCTORS WHO WANT TO BE FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS TO LEARN HOW TO DO MEDICAL LETHAL DEATH INVESTIGATIONS. AND CAUSED BY MANNER OF DEATH. >> WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT THE PATHOLOGY IS AS A FIELD OF MEDICINE? >> SURE. PATHOLOGISTS ARE SOMETIMES CONSIDERED THE DOCTOR'S DOCTOR BECAUSE WE DON'T DIRECTLY TREAT PATIENTS, BUT WE PROVIDE INFORMATION TO DOCTORS WHO THEN DO TREAT PATIENTS. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN TO A LAB AND HAD BLOOD DRAWN, THAT GOES TO A LABORATORY THAT IS RUN BY A PATHOLOGIST, A CLINICAL PATHOLOGIST. SO, YOU KNOW, BLOOD COUNT, CHEMISTRIES, THINGS LIKE THAT. OR IF YOU'VE EVER KNOWN SOMEONE THAT HAD A BIOPSY AND WAS DIAGNOSED WITH CANCER, THAT'S THE TYPE OF PATHOLOGY THAT IS DONE BY AN ANATOMIC PATHOLOGIST. IN MINNESOTA A FORENSIC EXAMINER IS APPOINTED BY THE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS TO BE THAT COUNTY'S MEDICAL EXAMINER. >> SO IT'S A PUBLIC OFFICIAL? >> YES. >> SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT MEDICAL/LEGAL INVESTIGATIONS, IS THAT SORT OF A FANCY WAY OF DESCRIBING WHAT FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS DO? >> YES. IT'S WHAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE DOES. IT'S DEATH INVESTIGATIONS AGAIN WHERE THERE IS A MEDICAL COMPONENT AND THERE MAY BE A LEGAL COMPONENT. >> IS IT DIFFERENT FROM, SAY, A DEATH IN THE HOSPITAL? >> YES. SO, IF SOMEONE DIES IN THE HOSPITAL, THOSE ARE USUALLY DEATHS DUE TO NATURAL CAUSES, AND THEY MAY HAVE A MEDICAL DEATH INVESTIGATION IN THE SENSE THAT A HOSPITAL PATHOLOGIST MIGHT DO AN AUTOPSY. BUT THEY WOULDN'T DO THE FULL SCOPE OF THE MEDICAL/LEGAL DEATH INVESTIGATION BECAUSE THOSE ARE MOSTLY DUE TO NATURAL DISEASES. >> WHAT DOES DEATH INVESTIGATION ENTAIL? >> WELL, THE WAY A MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE PERFORMS A DEATH INVESTIGATION, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ASSUME IT'S ALL ABOUT THE AUTOPSY, THE PHYSICAL EXAMINATION OF THE BODY. AND THAT'S REALLY JUST A TINY PART OF THE DEATH INVESTIGATION. THE DEATH INVESTIGATION REALLY STARTS AT THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN A DEATH IS FOUND, A PERSON IS FOUND DECEASED, OR THE OFFICE IS NOTIFIED OF THE DEATH. WE AS MEDICAL EXAMINERS WANT TO KNOW ALL ABOUT THAT PERSON, WHAT'S THEIR PAST MEDICAL HISTORY, SOCIAL HISTORY, FAMILY HISTORY. SO WE WILL DO WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO TO GET THAT KIND OF HISTORY. THEN WE WANT TO KNOW, WELL, WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT WERE THEIR TERMINAL EVENTS, WHAT HAPPENED AROUND THE TIME OF THEIRDEATH. WERE THEY COMPLAINING OF SOMETHING? WERE THEY INTERACTING WITH SOMEONE? WERE THEY DRIVING? WERE THEY USING, YOU KNOW, MACHINERY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THEN WE'LL LOOK AT THE PHYSICAL EXAMINATION, AND THAT PART OF THE EXAM MIGHT INCLUDE X-RAYS. IT COULD INCLUDE GETTING SPECIMENS FOR TOXICOLOGY, FOR CULTURES, FOR ALL KINDS OF OTHER LABORATORY TESTS, INCLUDING LOOKING AT THINGS UNDER THE MICROSCOPE, SECTIONS OF EACH ORGAN UNDER THE MICROSCOPE. SO THAT'S THE PHYSICAL EXAM PART. THEN WE'LL LOOK AT THE LABORATORY RESULTS SO THAT WOULD BE USUALLY TOXICOLOGY, BUT AS I SAY, IT COULD BE BLOOD CULTURES, OR MORE RECENTLY IT'S PROBABLY BEEN A LOT OF COVID TESTING, THAT KIND OF THING. AND THEN LOOK AT THE MICROSCOPIC SLIDES, AND THEN PUT ALL OF THAT TOGETHER WITH THE HISTORY, THE TERMINAL EVENTS, THE PHYSICAL FINDINGS, THE LABORATORY FINDINGS, AND THEN THAT'S HOW THE MEDICAL EXAMINER REACHES THE CONCLUSION ABOUT THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH. >> SO ALL OF THAT GOES INTO A DEATH INVESTIGATION? >> YES. >> DO YOU SOMETIMES INTERVIEW PEOPLE ALSO AS A PART OF IT? >> YES, THE INVESTIGATORS WHO GO TO THE SCENE MAY TALK TO FAMILY MEMBERS. WE CERTAINLY WILL TALK TO MEDICAL PROVIDERS TO GET SOMEONE'S PAST MEDICAL HISTORY. WE OFTEN WILL INTERVIEW OR TALK WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IF THEY WERE THE PEOPLE WHO RESPONDED. IT COULD BE PARAMEDICS, EMS, TROOPERS, JUST DEPENDS ON THE CASE. >> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A PHRASE USED, TERMINAL EVENTS. >> YES. >> COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT IS A TERMINAL EVENT? >> SURE. SO, WHEN WE'RE INVESTIGATING A DEATH AS MEDICAL EXAMINERS, AS I MENTIONED, WE WANT TO KNOW AS MUCH AS WE CAN ABOUT THIS PERSON LEADING UP TO THEIR DEATH BECAUSE THAT OFTEN HOW THEY LIVED WILL PROVIDE US INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THEY DIED. WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT TERMINAL EVENTS, I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PERIOD OF TIME AROUND THEIR DEATH, LEADING, SHORTLY LEADING UP TO THEIR DEATH. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, HE WAS OUT SHOVELING SNOW. HE CAME IN, CLUTCHED HIS CHEST, AND FELL OVER. THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF A TERMINAL EVENT. OR WE KNOW SOMEONE WAS DRIVING A CAR AND WENT OFF THE ROAD. THAT WOULD BE WHAT THE TERMINAL EVENTS WERE. >> DO YOU ALSO RELY ON TRAINING AND EXPERTISE ON HOW INJURIES OCCUR? >> YES. AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOK AT IS -- AND LEARN ABOUT, IS WHEN WE SEE THIS TYPE OF INJURY, WE ASSOCIATE THAT WITH THIS TYPE OF EVENT. >> WHAT DOES THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, THEN, DO AT THE CONCLUSION OF A DEATH INVESTIGATION? >> SO, THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS TO COMPLETE THE INFORMATION THAT'S NEEDED ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE. SPECIFICALLY THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH. >> IS A REPORT GENERATED? >> YES. >> WHAT'S THE NATURE OF THAT REPORT? >> WELL, ONE OF THE MAIN REPORTS THAT'S GENERATED WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE AUTOPSY REPORT, AND THAT'S THE REPORT OF THE PHYSICAL EXAMINATION. BUT ULTIMATELY THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IS THE FINAL REPORT. >> NOW, YOU TOLD US AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST YOU DON'T TREAT THAT LIVING PATIENT. >> RIGHT. >> SO IF WE WANTED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT MEASURING LUNG VOLUMES OR AIR RESERVES IN SOMEONE, THAT WOULDN'T BE YOUR BAILIWICK? >> THAT WOULD NOT BE ME, NO. BY THE TIME I SEE THEM, NONE OF THAT APPLIES. >> RIGHT. SO, DR. THOMAS, ARE YOU CURRENTLY EMPLOYED? >> I WORK -- I'M SEMI-RETIRED. I DO CONSULTING AND THEN I WORK PART TIME AT MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICES IN RENO, NEVADA, AND SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH. >> RENO AND SALT LAKE CITY, DR. THOMAS? >> I REALLY LIKE THE WAY THE OFFICE RUNS, AND I LIKE STILL TO BE INVOLVED AS A MEDICAL EXAMINER. >> PRETTY GOOD PLACES TO HIKE. >> AND GOOD PLACES TO HIKE. >> SO, WHAT DID YOU -- WHERE DID YOU DO YOUR WORK BEFORE YOU WERE SEMI-RETIRED? >> RIGHT BEFORE I RETIRED, I WAS AT THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE AS AN ASSISTANT MEDICAL EXAMINER. AND DO YOU WANT ME TO GO BEFORE THAT? >> YES, IF YOU COULD TELL US YOUR WORK EXPERIENCE AS A MEDICAL EXAMINER FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST. >> SURE. INITIALLY I STARTED AFTER MY TRAINING AT THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE WORKING AS A DEPUTY ASSISTANT, ASSISTANT MEDICAL EXAMINER AND I WAS THERE FOR MANY YEARS. AND THEN IN 1997, I JOINED THE MINNESOTA REGIONAL MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE THAT WAS BASED IN HASTINGS. AND THEN I WAS CHIEF OF THAT OFFICE FOR 13 YEARS. AND WE WERE THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE FOR EIGHT COUNTIES IN MINNESOTA, THE LARGEST OF WHICH WERE DAKOTA AND SCOTT COUNTIES. AND WE ALSO SERVED AS AN AUTOPSY REFERRAL SERVICE AND MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE FOR MANY OTHER COUNTIES IN MINNESOTA AS WELL AS WISCONSIN AND EVEN ONE IN MICHIGAN. AND THEN WHEN OUR OFFICE OUTGREW THAT SPACE, DAKOTA AND SCOTT COUNTIES MERGED WITH HENNEPIN AND THAT'S WHY I CAME BACK TO HENNEPIN. >> SO HOW MANY YEARS DID YOU WORK AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST? >> LET'S SEE. 37 NOW. 36. >> AND IN MINNESOTA, HOW MANY COUNTIES? >> OH, GOSH, UM, WELL, I'VE BEEN THE DIRECT EXAMINER FOR EIGHT COUNTIES. I'VE WORKED IN OFFICES THAT HAVE BEEN CONSULTANT TO DOZENS OF OTHER COUNTIES. >> AND HAVE YOU ALSO PERFORMED THOSE SERVICES IN PARTS OF WISCONSIN? >> YES. >> WHEN DID YOU STOP WORKING AT THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE? >> IT WAS EARLY 2017. I RETIRED FROM HENNEPIN COUNTY. >> AND HOW MANY AUTOPSIES WOULD YOU ESTIMATE YOU HAVE PERFORMED OVER YOUR CAREER? >> PROBABLY ABOUT 5,000, THAT I MYSELF DID. AND THEN HUNDREDS, MAYBE A THOUSAND MORE WHERE I ASSISTED SOMEONE ELSE OR I SUPERVISED OR PARTICIPATED IN SOME WAY. >> SO IN 5,000 OR SO CASES, YOU DETERMINED THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH? >> WELL, ACTUALLY, WAY MORE THAN THAT BECAUSE AS MEDICAL EXAMINERS, WE DON'T JUST CERTIFY THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH FOR THE CASES THAT WE DO AUTOPSIES ON. THERE ARE NUMEROUS OTHER CASES THAT GET REPORTED BY LAW TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE WHERE WE DON'T DO A PHYSICAL EXAMINATION. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, AN ELDERLY PERSON FALLS IN A NURSING HOME AND GETS A HIP FRACTURE AND THEN DIES A COUPLE MONTHS LATER. THAT DEATH HAS TO BE REPORTED TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE. WE WILL INVESTIGATE THAT DEATH BY LOOKING AT THE MEDICAL RECORDS AND DOING ALL OF WHAT I TALKED ABOUT, GETTING FAMILY INPUT AND MEDICAL PROVIDER INPUT, BUT WE GENERALLY WILL NOT DO A PHYSICAL EXAMINATION. BUT STILL, BY LAW, WE HAVE TO SIGN THE DEATH CERTIFICATE. >> SO YOU'RE STILL DETERMINING, THEN, THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH? >> RIGHT. WE'RE JUST NOT USING A PHYSICAL EXAMINATION AS PART OF IT. >> USING THE MEDICAL RECORDS PRIMARILY? >> YES. >> DR. THOMAS, ARE YOU LICENSED PRESENTLY? >> YES, I'M LICENSED IN MINNESOTA, WISCONSIN, TENNESSEE, NEVADA AND UTAH. >> DO YOU ALSO HOLD ANY BOARD CERTIFICATIONS? >> YES, I'M BOARD CERTIFIED BY THE AMERICAN BOARD OF PATHOLOGY IN ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGY. >> HAVE YOU WORKED WITH ANY PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONS OVER THE YEARS RELATED TO FORENSIC PATHOLOGY? >> YES, I'VE BEEN A MEMBER OF MANY DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS. MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, COLLEGE OF AMERICAN MEDICAL ONCOLOGISTS, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF FORENSIC SCIENCES AND THEN I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD OF THE MINNESOTA CORONERS AND MEDICAL EXAMINERS ASSOCIATION, OH, PROBABLY 30 PLUS YEARS. AND THEN I'M A MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS AND I WAS ON THAT BOARD, AND A MEMBER OF THEIR EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. >> AND THAT GOES BY THE ACRONYM NAME, N-A-M-E? >> YES. >> WHAT DOES N.A.M.E. DO? >> THEY'RE THE MEDICAL LEGAL INVESTIGATORS SPECIFICALLY FOR FORENSIC MEDICAL EXAMINERS. AND AS AN ORGANIZATION THEY PROVIDE SUPPORT TO MEDICAL EXAMINERS. THEY PROVIDE INFORMATION. THEY PROVIDE GUIDELINES, ACCREDITATION PROGRAM, INSPECTION PROGRAM, LOTS OF WAYS OF ASSISTING MEDICAL EXAMINER OFFICES. >> DR. THOMAS, HAVE YOU DONE ANY TEACHING? >> YES. I HAV I HAVE BEEN A CLINICAL INSTRUCTOR HERE AT THE MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF PATHOLOGY. I'VE DONE LOTS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINING THROUGH THE BUREAU OF CRIMINAL APPREHENSION HERE IN MINNESOTA, AS WELL AS -- OH, MY GOSH -- TEACHING EVERYTHING FROM MIDDLE SCHOOL SCIENCE STUDENTS THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE AND ALL KINDS OF PROFESSIONAL GROUPS, WHETHER IT'S FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS OR LAW ENFORCEMENT, YOU KNOW. YOU NAME THE ORGANIZATION THAT COMES INTO CONTACT WITH DEATH INVESTIGATION AND I'VE PROBABLY TALKED TO SOME OF THEM AT SOME POINT. >> DO YOU HAVE ANY PUBLICATIONS? >> THAT HASN'T BEEN A MAIN FOCUS OF MY CAREER, BUT I WAS -- I HAVE SEVERAL, AND EARLY ON WAS INVOLVED IN A -- IN AUTOPSY PROTOCOL THAT WAS ULTIMATELY PUBLISHED BY THE UNITED NATIONS THAT'S STILL IN USE. >> SO LET'S SWITCH TOPICS AND TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE TESTIFYING IN COURTS. HAVE YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE IN A COURT? >> YES, PROBABLY OVER 100 TIMES. >> AND IS THAT PREDOMINANTLY IN YOUR ROLE AS A MEDICAL EXAMINER? >> IT'S MOSTLY IN MY ROLE AS A MEDICAL EXAMINER WHERE I DID THE AUTOPSY AND THEN THE PROSECUTION WOULD CALL ME TO TESTIFY AS TO MY FINDINGS. I'VE ALSO TESTIFIED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS CONSULTANT IN CASES WHERE I DIDN'T DO THE AUTOPSY, BUT I WAS CALLED BY MAYBE IN A CIVIL CASE, EITHER BY THE DEFENSE OR THE PLAINTIFF IF THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS A WRONGFUL DEATH, OR SOME QUESTION ABOUT MEDICAL MALPRACTICE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THEN I'VE ALSO BEEN CONSULTED AND TESTIFIED IN CASES AT THE REQUEST OF THE DEFENSE. AGAIN, NOT WHERE I DID THE AUTOPSY, BUT WHERE I REVIEWED SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK AND I CONSULTED WITH THE DEFENSE OR TESTIFIED. >> AND HAVE YOU TESTIFIED IN MINNESOTA COURTS? >> MINNESOTA, IOWA, WISCONSIN, NORTH DAKOTA, SOUTH DAKOTA, PENNSYLVANIA, I THINK THOSE ARE THE ONES. >> SO, DR. THOMAS, ARE YOU BEING PAID FOR YOUR TIME AND SERVICES IN THIS CASE? >> NO. >> COULD YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT? HOW DOES IT COME ABOUT THAT YOU'RE NOT BEING PAID FOR YOUR TIME AND SERVICES IN THIS CASE? >> UM, WELL, I DIDN'T ASK TO BE PAID. >> AND SO DID YOU REACH OUT TO THE STATE OR THE STATE REACH OUT TO YOU? >> NO, NO, YOU REACHED OUT TO ME, AND YOU KNOW, I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT, AND I FELT LIKE I HAD SOMETHING TO OFFER AND I WANTED TO DO WHAT I COULD TO HELP EXPLAIN WHAT I THINK HAPPENED. >> SO, WHAT WERE YOU ASKED TO DO, THEN, IN THIS CASE? >> WELL, I WAS ASKED TO REVIEW A LOT OF THE MATERIALS AND COME TO AN INDEPENDENT CONCLUSION ABOUT WHAT I THOUGHT THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH WERE AND THE MECHANISM FOR THAT CAUSE. >> COULD YOU GIVE THE JURORS A GENERAL SENSE OR OVERVIEW OF THE KINDS OF MATERIALS YOU REVIEWED? >> MAY I LOOK AT MY NOTES? >> YES, YOU MAY IF YOU NEED TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION. >> SO, I LOOKED AT THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER MATERIALS, INCLUDING THE AUTOPSY REPORT AND TOXICOLOGY AND PHOTOGRAPHS AND MICROSCOPIC SLIDES, THINGS LIKE THAT. I LOOKED AT THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER RECORDS, SAW MR. FLOYD'S PAST MEDICAL HISTORY FROM THERE, AS WELL AS HEALTH PARTNERS MEDICAL RECORDS. THEN I LOOKED AT A LOT OF INTERVIEWS, MANY, MANY VIDEOS, INCLUDING BODY-WORN CAMERA VIDEOS, BYSTANDER VIDEOS, SURVEILLANCE VIDEOS, SOME PHOTOGRAPHS, STILL PHOTOGRAPHS, TIMELINE. AND THEN SOME MEDICAL LITERATURE AND TEXTBOOKS. >> SO, WERE YOU THE MEDICAL EXAMINER WHO INVESTIGATED OR DID THE AUTOPSY AROUND THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD? >> NO, THAT WAS DR. ANDREW BAKER, THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER. >> DO YOU KNOW DR. BAKER? >> I DO. HE WAS A PATHOLOGY RESIDENT WHEN I WAS ON STAFF AT HENNEPIN COUNTY MANY YEARS AGO. AND THEN WHEN HE DID HIS FELLOWSHIP, I WAS ONE OF THE STAFF PEOPLE THERE. AND THEN AFTER OUR OFFICES MERGED, I WORKED AGAIN WITH HIM AT HENNEPIN COUNTY. >> SO WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN PART OF HIS TRAINING IN HIS EARLY FORM FORMATIVE YEARS? >> YES. >> DO YOU CONSIDER HIM A FRIEND? >> I DO, YES. >> HAVE YOU TALKED TO HIM ABOUT THIS CASE? >> NO, NOT SINCE RIGHT AFTER IT HAPPENED. >> BUT YOU DID REVIEW HIS REPORT? >> YES. >> AND AS WELL AS MR. FLOYD'S MEDICAL RECORDS? >> YES. >> DID YOU REVIEW THE HISTORY OF TERMINAL EVENTS FROM MAY 25th, 2020? >> YES. AND WHAT WAS KIND OF UNIQUE, WHAT WAS ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE IN THIS CASE WAS THE VOLUME OF MATERIALS I HAD TO REVIEW. I'VE NEVER HAD A CASE LIKE THIS THAT HAD SUCH THOROUGH DOCUMENTATION OF THE TERMINAL EVENTS. >> AND BY WAY >> OF TERMINAL EVENTS, WHAT MAKES IT TERMINAL? >> CERTAINLY AS MEDICAL EXAMINERS, WE USE VIDEOS, BUT THERE'S NEVER BEEN A CASE THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THAT HAD VIDEOS OVER SUCH A LONG TIME FRAME AND FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. >> ARE YOU AWARE THEN OF DR. BAKER'S CONCLUSIONS ON THE MANNER OF DEATH? >> YES. >> YOUR HONOR, I'D LIKE TO SHOW EXHIBIT 193 THAT'S BEEN STIPULATED TO SUBJECT TO DR. BAKER'S FOUNDATION. >> SO FIRST, DR. THOMAS, WHAT DO WE SEE ON EXHIBIT 193? >> THIS IS A COPY OF THE CERTIFICATE OF DEATH OF MR. FLOYD. >> OKAY. AND SO IF WE COULD KIND OF HIGHLIGHT THROUGH THE WORD UNDERLINE JUST TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIGGER TO SEE. OKAY. BASED ON YOUR REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE AND THE DEATH CERTIFICATE, DO YOU AGREE WITH DR. BAKER'S DETERMINATION ON THE CAUSE OF DEATH? >> YES, I DO. AND IS THAT THERE? >> YES. >> HAVE YOU, DR. THOMAS, FORMED AN OPINION ABOUT THE MECHANISM OF DEATH? >> YES. >> WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS? >> IN THIS CASE, I BELIEVE THE PRIMARY MECHANISM OF DEATH IS ASPHYXIA OR LOW OXYGEN. >> SO WE'LL COME BACK TO THE MECHANISM IN JUST A MINUTE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT THIS CAUSE OF DEATH MEANS AND WHY YOU AGREE WITH IT? >> WELL, IT'S KIND OF IN TWO PARTS. SO THERE'S THE CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST WHICH DOESN'T PROVIDE A LOT OF ADDITIONAL CLARIFYING INFORMATION BECAUSE IN A WAY EVERYONE DIES WHEN YOUR HEART STOPS AND LUNGS STOP, THAT'S CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST, BUT AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, I WOULD USE CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST WHEN I -- TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM A CARDIAC ARREST. SO THIS IS NOT A SUDDEN CARDIAC DEATH OR CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIA. THIS IS A DEATH WHERE BOTH THE HEART AND LUNGS STOPPED WORKING, AND THE POINT IS THAT IT'S DUE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT'S SUB DUAL, RESTRAINT, AND COMPRESSION. THAT IS WHAT ULTIMATELY IS THE IMMEDIATE CAUSE OF DEATH. >> AND JUST SO IT'S CLEAR FOR THE JURORS, CARDIOPULMONARY AR AR ARREST, DOES IT MEAN HEART ATTACK? >> NO. >> FATAL ARRHYTHMIA? >> NO. >> IT SIMPLY MEANS THE HEART HAS STOPPED AND THE LUNGS HAVE STOPPED. >> RIGHT. >> SIMPLY DESCRIBING DEATH ITSELF. >> RIGHT. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT'S REFERRED TO, LOOKING HERE AT THE TERMS, SUBDUE, RESTRAINT, AND CONSTRAINT? >> THOSE WIERE WORDS BY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. SUBDUELE IS USED BY THE OFFICERS. RESTRAINTS INVOLVED HANDCUFFING HIM, HIS POSITIONING ON THE GROUND, THE PRONE POSITION, THE PEOPLE KNEELING ON HIM, AND THE NECK COMPRESSION IS THE KNEE ON THE NECK SPECIFICALLY. ADDITIONALLY THERE WAS SOME BACK AND OTHER THINGS BEING COMPRESSED BY THE OFFICERS. >> SO IF YOU PUT ALL THIS TOGETHER, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? >> WHAT IT MEANS TO ME IS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS RE RESULTED IN MR. FLOYD'S DEATH AND SPECIFICALLY THOSE WERE THE SUBDUAL AND RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION. >> DOES THIS ALSO REPRESENT YOUR OWN CONCLUSION? >> YES. >> TO A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? >> YES. >> WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT YOU USED IN ORDER TO REACH THIS CONCLUSION. >> ALL OF THOSE THINGS I MENTIONED EARLIER. AGAIN, WHAT'S SORT OF UNIQUE ABOUT THIS CASE IS THAT OFTEN I WOULD JUST REVIEW THE MEDICAL EXAMINER CASE FILE AND THAT WOULD ADVISE ME AS TO WHAT THE DEATH IS. BUT IN THIS CASE THE AUTOPSY DIDN'T TELL ME THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH, AND IT REALLY REQUIRED GETTING ALL OF THIS OTHER ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, SPECIFICALLY THE VIDEO EVIDENCE OF THE TERMINAL EVENTS TO CONCLUDE THE CAUSE OF DEATH AND MANNER OF DEATH. >> WHEN YOU MAKE REFERENCE TO SOMETHING CALLED THE MECHANISM OF DEATH, WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT MECHANISM OF DEATH MEANS? >> SO CAUSE OF DEATH IS WHAT'S THE THING, THE DISEASE OR THE INJURY OR THE PROCESS THAT CAUSED SOMEONE'S DEATH. BUT THE MECHANISM IS KIND OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE BODY AT THAT TIME. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CAUSE OF DEATH MIGHT BE A GUNSHOT WOUND, BUT THE MECHANISM OF DEATH MIGHT BE BLOOD LOSS RELATED TO THAT GUNSHOT WOUND OR, YOU KNOW, AN INFECTION THAT COMPLICATED THAT GUNSHOT WOUND DOWN THE ROAD, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO IT'S MORE THE WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING AT THE BODY LEVEL THAT RESULTED IN THE CAUSE OF DEATH. >> SO FOCUSING IN ON THE MECHANISM OF DEATH HERE, HOW IS IT THAT THE OFFICERS WITH DUAL RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION CAUSED MR. FLOYD'S DEATH? >> AS I MENTIONED, THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH WAS ASPHYXIATION OR LOW OXYGEN AND IT BASICALLY WAS MR. FLOYD WAS IN THE POSITION WHERE HE WAS UNABLE TO GET ENOUGH OXYGEN IN TO MAINTAIN HIS BODY FUNCTIONS. >> AND WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR NORMAL BREATHING, DR. THOMAS. >> WHAT IS REQUIRED? >> YEAH. >> WELL, THERE ARE KIND OF THREE COMPONENTS. HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET AIR IN, SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A PATENT AIRWAY. AND THAT COULD BE NOSE, MOUTH, SOFT TISSUES OF THE NECK, THE TRACHEA, THE LARYNX -- LARYNX, TRACHEA, BRONCHI, ALL OF THAT HAS TO BE OPEN. AT THE LEVEL OF THE LUNGS ITSELF, THERE HAS TO BE ADEQUATE AIR EXCHANGE BETWEEN OXYGEN COMING IN, CARBON DIOXIDE GOING OUT, AND THEN FINALLY THE WAY THE LUNGS WORK IS IT'S KIND OF LIKE A BELLOWS THAT WHEN YOU SUCK IN AIR YOUR DIAPHRAGM DROPS AND PULLS IN AIR AND WHEN YOU RELAX THE DIAPHRAGM COLLAPSES AND PUSHES AIR OUT. SO ALL THREE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE TO BE FUNCTIONING IN ORDER TO GET ADEQUATE OXYGEN IN. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE IS SMOTHERED OR STRANGLE ORDER THEY INHALE A PIECE OF HOT DOG OR THEY HAVE PNEUMONIA SUCH THAT THEIR LUNGS ARE COMPLETELY FILLED, THEN THEIR AIRWAY IS OBSTRUCTED SO THAT THERE ISN'T ADEQUATE AIR COMING IN, OXYGEN COMING IN, OR IF SOMEONE IS IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THERE ISN'T ENOUGH OXYGEN, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN AN ENCLOSED GARAGE WHERE A CAR HAS BEEN RUNNING, THERE MAY BE HIGH CARBON MONOXIDE AND IN THAT CASE THEY'RE PERFECTLY ABLE TO BREATHE IN AND OUT, BUT THERE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH OXYGEN. AND THEN THE THIRD WOULD BE IF THERE'S SOME KIND OF RESTRICTION SUCH THAT YOUR CHEST CAN'T EXPAND, YOUR DIAPHRAGM CAN'T EXPAND SUCH THAT THE BELLOWS ISN'T WORKING. AND IF ANY OF THAT MECHANISM ISN'T WORKING THE RESULT WILL BE THIS MECHANISM OF INADEQUATE OXYGEN. >> HOW DOES THE HYPOFPHARYNX TI INTO THIS. >> SLEEP APNEA IS WHAT I'M THINKING. IF YOU OR YOUR PARTNER SNORES, WHAT HAPPENS IS THE HYPOPHARYNX, WHICH IS THE SOFT TISSUES, THE BACK OF YOUR THROAT, WILL KIND OF COLLAPSE BECAUSE THERE'S INADEQUATE AIR COMING EITHER FORCING IT OUT OR FORCING IT IN, WHICH IS WHY A CPAP MACHINE WORKS BECAUSE IT FORCES AIR THROUGH THAT FLOPPY AREA. AND IF THAT COLLAPSES, THEN IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO GET AIR IN. >> SO, DR. THOMAS, WHAT DO YOU RELY ON TO REACH YOUR CONCLUSION THAT LOW OXYGEN WAS THE MECHANISM OF DEATH? >> IN THIS CASE IT WAS PRIMARILY THE EVIDENCE, THE VIDEO EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS MR. FLOYD IN A POSITION WHERE HE WAS UNABLE TO ADEQUATELY BREATHE. >> SO HOW DOES THE AUTOPSY REPORT ITSELF ASSIST YOU OR NOT? >> SO THE WAY THE AUTOPSY REALLY HELPS IS IT'S GREAT FOR RULING THINGS OUT. SO IN THIS CASE THE AUTOPSY RULED OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, UNDERLYING LUNG DISEASE. MR. FLOYD HAD A HISTORY OF COVID, BUT THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE IN HIS LUNGS AT THE TIME OF HIS DEATH THAT HE HAD ANY LUNG DISEASE THAT WOULD IMPAIR HIS ABILITY TO BREATHE, AND IT RULED OUT INJURIES TO THE NECK THAT SUGGEST THAT HIS -- THE BONES IN HIS NECK HAD BEEN BROKEN, FOR EXAMPLE. AND IT RULED OUT A STROKE. HE DIDN'T HAVE A STROKE, SO IT WASN'T LIKE HIS BLOOD PRESSURE WAS SO HIGH THAT HE RUPTURED A VESSEL IN HIS BRAIN. HE DIDN'T HAVE AN ANEURYSM. HE DIDN'T HAVE -- WHICH IS A RUPTURED VESSEL. HE DIDN'T HAVE AN EMBOLISM, WHICH IS A BLOOD CLOT. HE DIDN'T RUPTURE HIS HEART. HE DIDN'T HAVE AN OLD HEART ATTACK OR RECENT HEART ATTACK OR WHAT'S CALLED MYOCARDIAL INFARCT. THE AUTOPSY IS GREAT FOR RULING THINGS OUT. >> DR. THOMAS, JUST TO FOCUS ON ONE OF THOSE, YOU SAID THE AUTOPSY RULED OUT A RECENT MYOCARDIO INFARCTION? >> YES. >> HOW DOES IT DO THAT? >> WELL, IT -- WHEN A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST EXAMINES THE HEART, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY LOOK AT IS THE CORONARY ARTERIES, WHICH ARE THE VESSELS THAT SUPPLY BLOOD AND NUTRIENTS TO THE HEART MUSCLE. APP THEN THE PATHOLOGIST WILL EXAMINE THE MUSCLE OF THE HEART, AND IF SOMEONE HAS HAD A RECENT HEART ATTACK, THERE MAY BE EVIDENCE IN THE HEART MUSCLE OF THAT DAMAGE, OR IF THEY'VE HAD A PRIOR AND OLDER HEART ATTACK, THERE WILL BE SCARRING IN THE HEART MUSCLE THAT SHOWS THAT AREA OF DAMAGE. >> THANK YOU, DOCTOR. IS IT NORMAL AS A PART OF YOUR DEATH INVESTIGATION TO SEEK OUT AND TO LOOK AT THE VIDEO? >> YES. OH, YES. >> IN THIS CASE, IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR VIDEO FOOTAGE THAT STRUCK YOU AS MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN OTHERS FROM WHAT YOU SAW? >> OH, IN THIS CASE, THERE WERE SO MANY. THE BODY WORN CAMERA VIDEOS WERE VERY INSTRUCTIVE BECAUSE THEY STARTED -- WELL -- AND THE CUP FOODS VIDEO BECAUSE THEY SHOWED HOW MR. FLOYD WAS ACTING LONG BEFORE POLICE INTERACTION. THE BODY CAMERA SHOWED EARLY INTERACTIONS BEFORE THERE WAS ANY OF THIS SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND COMPRESSION AND THEN THE ACTIONS DURING THE SUBDUAL RESTRAINT. THE BYSTANDER VIDEOS ARE REALLY INSTRUCTIVE AS WELL AS THE SURVEILLANCE VIDEOS FROM THE SCENE SHOWING KIND OF DURING THE TIME OF THE RESTRAINT. SO THERE WERE LOTS, I WOULD THINK. >> SO IN TERMS OF THE VIDEO FOOTAGE EITHER RULING IN A CAUSE OR RULING OUT A CAUSE, HOW DID IT FORM YOUR ASSESSMENTS ABOUT THE CAUSE OF DEATH BY LOOKING AT THAT VIDEO? >> WELL, IT HELPED ME RULE IN A CAUSE AND ALSO RULE OUT CAUSES, I WOULD SAY. >> SO DID IT HELP YOU DETERMINE WHETHER THIS WAS WHAT I MIGHT REFER TO AS A LIGHTS OUT KIND OF DEATH, SUDDEN DEATH? >> RIGHT. SO WHAT I OBSERVED FROM ALL OF THESE VIDEOS IS THIS WAS NOT A SUDDEN DEATH. MR. FLOYD DID NOT -- IT'S NOT LIKE THE SNOW SHOVELING WHERE I TOLD YOU SOMEBODY COMES IN, COLLAPSES, CLUTCHES THEIR CHEST AND FALLS OVER. THERE WAS NOTHING SUNDAY ABOUT HIS DEATH. SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED IF IT WAS A CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIA OR ABNORMAL BEATING OF THE HEART. TYPICALLY THOSE ARE SOMEONE REALLY FALLS OVER PRETTY QUICKLY, AND THIS WAS NOT THAT. LIKEWISE IT WAS NOT THE TYPE OF DEATH THAT HAS BEEN REPORTED IN FENTANYL OVERDOSE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE SOMEONE BECOMES VERY SLEEPY AND THEN SORT OF GRADUALLY, CALMLY, PEACEFULLY STOPS BREATHING. THIS WAS NOT THAT KIND OF A DEATH. SO I FELT COMFORTABLE RULING OUT THOSE AS CAUSES OF DEATH. AND THEN ON THE FLIP SIDE, YOU -- I COULD CLEARLY SEE FROM WATCHING THE VIDEO WHAT HAPPENS TO MR. FLOYD DURING THAT SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND COMPRESSION AND WHAT HAPPENS TO HIS BREATHING IS IT GRADUALLY BECOMES MORE DIFFICULT AND THEN STOPS. >> DOCTOR, TELL US WHAT IS THE BELLOWS FUNCTION? >> IT'S WHAT YOUR DIAPHRAGM DOES ALONG WITH THE MUSCLES IN BETWEEN YOUR RIBS. SO WHEN YOU TAKE IN A DEEP BREATH, WHAT'S HAPPENING IS YOUR RIBCAGE IS EXPANDING, AND THAT THEN FORCES THE LUNGS TO OPEN UP, AND THAT'S WHAT DRAWS AIR IN. SO WHEN SOMEONE IS INTUBATED LIKE SURGERY OR SOMETHING, IT'S SORT OF THE OPPOSITE OF THAT BECAUSE YOUR DIAPHRAGM IS PARALYZED AND SOMEBODY HAS TO FORCE AIR IN. BUT UNDER NORMAL BREATHING CIRCUMSTANCES, YOU JUST -- IT'S THE BELLOWS, IT'S THE PULLING AIR IN. >> SO WHAT DID THE VIDEO TELL YOU? WHAT DID YOU SEE IN IT THAT HAD DO WITH THE BELLOWS FUNCTION? >> RIGHT. WELL, HE -- MR. FLOYD IS IN A POSITION -- SO, FIRST OF ALL, HE'S PRONE OR SORT OF SLIGHTLY WITH HIS HEAD TO THE SIDE, AND HE HAS HIS ARMS HANDCUFFED BEHIND HIS BACK. SO THAT'S ALREADY A BIT OF A DIFFICULT POSITION TO BE IN, THE PRONE AND HANDCUFFED. AND THEN WITH -- AT TIMES, AT LEAST THREE OFFICERS ON TOP OF HIM, WHETHER IT'S HIS NECK OR HIS BACK OR HIS LOWER BACK OR LEGS, IT PREVENTS HIM FROM MOVING HIS BODY INTO A POSITION WHERE HE CAN ADEQUATELY USE THE BELLOWS FUCHLKS HIS CHEST IS SORT OF COMPRESSED IN THIS POSITION IN SUCH A WAY THAT HE CAN'T ADEQUATELY EXPAND AND GET ENOUGH OXYGEN IN. >> OVER WHAT PERIOD OF TIME WAS THIS? >> NINE MINUTES. >> SO WHAT DID YOU SEE IN THOSE NINE MINUTES THAT LED YOU TO CONCLUDE THAT THE MECHANISM OF DEATH WAS LOW OXYGEN OR ASPHYXIA? >> WELL, INITIALLY HE, MR. FLOYD, IS ABLE TO STRUGGLE PRETTY VIGOROUSLY WHEN HE'S IN THIS POSITION THAT HE RECOGNIZES IT'S GOING TO BE HARD FOR HIM TO BREATHE IN THIS POSITION. >> SUSTAINED. THE LAST PART OF THE ANSWER ABOUT MR. FLOYD'S STATE OF MIND IS STRICKEN AS SPECULATIVE. >> SORRY. SO INITIALLY WHEN HE'S IN THE PRONE POSITION, HE'S BREATHING AND SPEAKING, AND IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE, OH, HE'S AT THAT POINT GETTING ENOUGH AIR EXCHANGE. BUT OVER TIME YOU CAN SEE THAT HIS BREATHING IS GETTING MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT, AND HE'S SAYING LESS AND LESS, AND THEN ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH THE WHOLE RESTRAINT, SUBDUAL COMPRESSION PROCESS, HE STOPS BREATHING. WELL, HE STOPS SPEAKING ENTIRELY, AND THEN, AGAIN, SHORTLY AFTER THAT, THERE'S A MOVEMENT THAT I BELIEVE IS WHAT'S CALLED ANOXIC BRAIN REACTION, WHICH IS -- LOOKS LIKE KIND OF A TWITCH. IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE BODY DOES WHEN THE BRAIN NO LONGER HAS ENOUGH OXYGEN. SO THAT'S THE POINT AT WHICH YOU CAN TELL BY LOOKING, OH, THAT'S WHERE HE NO LONGER IS GETTING ENOUGH OXYGEN TO HIS BRAIN. AND THEN THE RESTRAINT AND SUBDUAL AND COMPRESSION CONTINUE FOR MANY MINUTES MORE, EVEN AFTER SOMEONE CHECKS AND SAYS, OH, THERE'S NO PULSE, THEY MAINTAIN THE POSITION. SO AT THAT POINT HIS HEART HAS STOPPED. HE STOPS BREATHING AND HIS HEART HAS STOPPED. >> YOU MENTIONED ANOXIC, A-N-O-X-I-C? >> YES. >> IS IT ALSO KNOWN AS ANOXIC SEIZURE? >> YES. >> IS IT SOMETHING SUTHAT SOMEO DOES CONSCIOUSLY? >> NO. IT'S WHAT YOUR BRAIN DOES WHEN IT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH OXYGEN. IT'S WHY IN LOTS OF CASES PEOPLE, WITNESSES WILL SAY, OH, THEY HAD A SEIZURE AND DIED. NO, WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED, THEY BASICALLY DIED. THEIR BRAIN DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH OXYGEN AND THEY HAVE A MUSCLE TWITCH THAT MAY LOOK LIKE A SEIZURE. >> SO CAN WE GO BACK TO EXHIBIT 193 AND I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT -- THAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU -- THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS, IF WE COULD HIGHLIGHT THAT. SO DO YOU SEE WHERE I'M REFERRING TO THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS? >> YES. >> AND WHAT ARE THOSE? >> IN THIS CASE THEY'RE ARTERIAL SCLEROTIC AND HYPERTENSIE IVE DISEASE AND METHAMPHETAMINE USE. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT DOES IT MEAN OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS? SOO SO THE WAY FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS AND MEDICAL EXAMINERS USUALLY USE THIS IS PEOPLE OFTEN THINK OF IT, THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IS FOR THAT PERSON, THAT SPECIFIC PERSON WHO DIED AND THEIR FAMILY, AND THAT'S TRUE. IT DOES SERVE A VERY USEFUL PURPOSE FOR LIFE INSURANCE, WHATEVER. BUT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS ARE ALSO USING DEATH CERTIFICATES FOR PUBLIC HEALTH DATA PURPOSES, AND SO IN ANY GIVEN CASE, WE AREN'T JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PERSON AND THEIR CAUSE AND MANNER IN OF DEATH. WE'RE ALSO THINKING THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COLLECT DATA ON WHY DO PEOPLE DIE, WHAT IS CAUSE OF DEATH. IT'S HOW WE KNOW AS A COUNTRY THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW -- LIKE HOW MANY PEOPLE DIE OF COVID, FOR EXAMPLE. IT'S BECAUSE DEATH CERTIFICATES LIST THAT. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE USE THIS FOR IS TO LIST DISEASE PROCESSES OR DRUGS THAT ARE PRESENT AT THE TIME OF DEATH BUT THAT WE DON'T DIRECTLY -- BELIEVE DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE CAUSE OF DEATH, BUT IT'S SO THAT SOMEONE LOOKING AT THE DATA YEARS FROM NOW CAN SAY, OKAY, WE WANT TO DO AN EVALUATION OF ALL DEATHS DURING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, AND HOW MANY OF THOSE DEATHS INVOLVED SOMEONE WHO ALSO HAD DRUGS ONBOARD BECAUSE THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT IS RELEVANT THAN IN TRYING TO PREVENT THESE SORT OF DEATHS IN THE FUTURE, FOR EXAMPLE, OR THE CASE WHERE I USED OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS PROBABLY THE MOST IS THE HIP FRACTURE CASE THAT I TALKED ABOUT BEFORE WHERE SOMEONE DIES OF A HIP FRACTURE DUE TO A FALL, BUT THEY'RE 84 YEARS OLD AND THEY ALSO HAVE HYPERTENNIVE HEART DISEASE, ARTERIAL SLER SCLER OTTIC HEART DISEASE, ASTHMA, DIABETES. I WILL LIST THOSE AS OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS. IN NO WAY DID THEY CAUSE THE FALL AND HIP FRACTURE AND RESULTING PNEUMONIA, WHAT HAVE YOU, BUT, AGAIN, SOMEONE FROM A DATA PERSPECTIVE MIGHT WANT TO KNOW. BUT OF THOSE WHO DIE OF HIP FRACTURES, WHAT PERCENTAGE HAVE UJDS LYING HEART DISEASE BECAUSE, AGAIN, FROM A DATA COLLECTION STANDPOINT DOES THAT PROVIDE USEFUL PUBLIC HEALTH INFORMATION THAT CAN BE USED IN THE FUTURE TO TRY AND PREVENT THESE DEATHS. SO THAT'S HOW I WOULD VIEW THIS. IT'S VERY LONGWINDED, SORRY. >> SURE, DR. THOMAS. IN UNDERSTANDING THIS FURTHER, SO OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS ARE CONDITIONS THAT MAY HAVE CONTRIBUTED BUT WERE NOT THE DIRECT CAUSE. >> EXACTLY. >> DID YOU CONSIDER THESE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS IN YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE AND MECHANISM OF DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD? >> YES. >> AND HOW DID YOU CONSIDER THEM, FIRST OF ALL? >> WELL, I WANTED TO LOOK AT EACH ONE AS -- AND ASK THE QUESTION, IS THIS THE CAUSE OF HIS DEATH? IS ARTERIAL SCLEROTIC HEART DISEASE THE CAUSE OF HIS DEATH? HE HAS NARROWING OF HIS CORONARY ARTERIES. IN MANY CASES THAT IS THE CAUSE OF SOMEONE'S DEATH. SO I LOOKED AT THAT. BUT, AGAIN, IT COMES DOWN TO WHAT WERE THE HISTORY OF THE TERMINAL EVENTS? DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE TYPE OF DEATH WE SEE OR IS REPORTED -- YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A CLINICIAN, SOW I DON'T SEE IT, BUT AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGY, I KNOW FROM HUNDREDS OF FAMILIES DESCRIBING WHAT HAPPENED AT THE TIME OF DEATH, THAT THIS DEATH DEMOCRAT NOT FIT AS SOMEONE WHO DIES FROM ARTERIAL SCLEROTIC HEART DISEASE AND LIKEWISE HYPERTENSIONIVE HEARTER DISEASE. THIS IS NOT THAT KIND OF DEATH. LIKEWISE, FENTANYL INTOXICATION LIKE I DESCRIBED, AGAIN, I DON'T TREAT PATIENTS. I DON'T SEE LIVING PEOPLE. BUT FROM WHAT I KNOW FROM FAMILY MEMBERS WHO DESCRIBE THE DEATHS WHICH LATER TURN OUT TO BE TO IT, THEY MAY HEAR SNORING OR HERB BREATHING. THERE'S NO STRUGGLE. THEY'RE OFTEN FOUND SLUMMED OVER. IT'S A VERY SLOW DEATH. AGAIN, TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS SEEN IN MR. FLOYD'S DEATH. METHAMPHETAMINE AS A CAUSE OF DEATH JGENERALLY CAN BE A CAUSE. IT MAY CAUSE A SEIZURE. AGAIN, I DON'T MEAN THIS TERMINAL ANOXIC TWIST. WHAT I KNOW OF MR. FLOYD'S DEATH BECAUSE IT'S SO WELL DOCUMENTED, THAT DOES NOT FIT WITH A METHAMPHETAMINE DEATH. >> YOU REVIEWED THE TOXICOLOGY. >> OH, YES. >> HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT WAS IN HIS SYSTEM? >> IT WAS THERE, NOT PARTICULARLY HIGH. CERTAINLY DEATHS I'VE ATTRIBUTED TO METHAMPHETAMINE, IT'S BEEN MUCH HIGHER. IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S A SAFE LEVEL, BUT THIS WAS A LOW LEVEL. >> WAS IT SIGNIFICANT IN YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE OF DEATH? >> NO NO. >> BASED ON YOUR REVIEW OF THE VIDEO, AND YOUR APPLICATION WORK, EXPERIENCE, AND KNOWLEDGE, DID YOU RULE OUT DRUG OVERDOSE AS A CULT OF DEATH. >> YES. >> IT'S A REASON YOU HOLD TO MEDICAL CERTAINTY. >> YES. NOW, I WANTED TO CLARIFY THIS EARLIER. DOES THE MEDICAL EXAMINERING ALSO COMPLETE THE DEATH CERTIFICATE? >> YES. WE DON'T ISSUE IT. IT COMES FROM THE COUNTY AND STATE. BUT AS THE MEDICAL ZPAM NEVER, WE FILL OUT CAUSE AND DEATH AND MANNER AND ALL THAT KINDS OF STUFF. >> OH, GOSH, WELLS THOUSAND AND THOUSANDS. >> IF WE LOOK AT THE EXHIBIT IN FRONT OF YOU, 193, IN THE LEFT MARGIN, WE SEE A REFERENCE HERE TO UNDERLYING. >>Y. >> WOULD YOU TELL THE JURORS WHAT THAT MEANS? >> SURE. LET'S GO BACK TO THE HIP FRACTURE BECAUSE I KEEP REFERRING TO THAT. FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE WHO DIES O EOF A HIP FRACTURE, THEY MAY GET IT REPAIRED AND THEN GET PNEUMONIA. THE IMMEDIATE DAWES IS THE HIP FRACTURE. THEY FELL, THEY GOT HIP FRACTURE. THEY GOT PNEUMONIA. SO IT'S SOMETHING YOU USE WHEN SOMEONE HAS MULTIPLE SEQUENCES. BUT IN A CASE LIKE THIS, YOU DON'T NEED AN. IT'S AWE DUAL TO LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND NECK C COMPLAINT. >> WOULD YOU HAVE USED THE WORD ASPHYXIA IN THIS CASE? >> PROBABLY NOT. I TEND NOT TO USE THE WORD AS FIMGZ YA TOO MUCH. IT DOESN'T REALLY OFFER TOO MUCH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION UNLESS YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION LIKE WE EVEN HAD ABOUT WHAT AN. I TENT TO JUST LIST -- YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE DIES FROM HANGING, THAT'S A TYPE OF AS FLEXIAL CAUSE OF DEATH. BUT I WOULDN'T LIST IT AS CAUSE OF DEATH. I WITHOUT LIST HANGING AS THE CAUSE OF DEATH. >> IT DOESN'T TELL YOU WHY. >> RIGHT. >> ARE THERE FINDINGS ON AUTOPSY THAT SUGGEST LOW OXYGEN AS A CAUSE OF DEATH? >> NO. THERE'S NOTHING ON AUTOPSY THAT SHOWS LOW OXYGEN. >> THERE'S NO TEST THAT CAN BE DONE. >> NO. >> ARE THERE FID CAL FINDINGS THAT SMIMS MAY BE FOUND AND MAY BE CONSISTENT WITH LOW OXYGEN? >> SO THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL FINDINGS THAT SHOW LOW OXYGEN, BUT THERE MAY BE PHYSICAL FINDINGS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH A CAUSE OF DEATH THAT MAY RESULT IN LOW OXYGEN. FOR EXAMPLE, THE HANGING. IF SOMEONE IS PARTIALLY HANGED, BY THAT I MEAN THEY ARE ONLY PARTIALLY SUSPENDED SO THERE'S ONLY SOME PRESSURE ON THEIR NECK, THEY MAY HAVE WHAT ARE CALLED PETECHIA OAR LITTLE PINPOINT HEMORRHAGES IN THE EYES BECAUSE BLOOD IS STILL GOING INTO THEIR HEAD BUT NOT ABLE TO DRAIN OUT BECAUSE OF THE PRESSURE ON THE NECK. SO AT AUTOPSY, WE'LL SEE THE PETECHIAE AND BASED ON THE PRESENTATION AND THE HISTORY, THAT FINDINGS IS CONSISTENT WITH HANGING WHICH THE TYPE OF HANGING IS A TYPE OF ASPHYXIA OR IN MACHBUAL STRANGULATION WHY EVER WEE MIGHT SEE BRUISING. THE METHOD OF DEATH IS LOW OXYGEN, BUT THE FINDING THAT WE ARE SEEING IS CONSISTENT WITH STRANG U LAGS, SO IT'S KIND OF A FINE LINE OF SAYING IT ISN'T THE LOW OXYGEN WE SEE AT AUTOPSY, NOW ALWAYS BUT SOMETIMES WHERE THE DEATH IS WRY FINED. WE SEE FINDINGS RELATED TO THE CAUSE. >> IF YOU SEE PE TEAKEE, IT COULD HELP TO CONCLUDE IT WAS DEATH BELOW OXYGEN. >> YES. >> BUT IF YOU DON'T SEE PETECHIAE, WHAT CAN YOU CONCLUDE? >> NOTHING. IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT IF IT'S PRESENT, PE TEAK YOO OR BROKE ABOUTEN BONES, ITSITE HAPPY. IT MEANS YOU CAN'T CONCLUDE FRA THAT ALANE THAT A PERSON DID OR DID NOT DIE FROM THAT CONTEXT. >> RIGHT. >> AND YOU MENTIONED BRUISING. >> RIGHT. STRANGULATION IS AN EXAMPLE. SOMETIMES YOU CAN SEE ALL KINDS OF BRUCE, BUT OFTENTIMES THEY DON'T HAVE A SICKLE MARK ON HER HEAD. THE THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF RIGHTENS. IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS, IF IT'S THERE, IT'S VERY HELPFUL, IF IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT HELPFUL. >> WITH THERE OTHER FINDINGS THAT COW TU THE CONCLUSION? >> YES. >> TELL US WHAT THOUGH WERE. >> MR. FLOYD HAD SUPERPERSONAL JUSHS, SPECIFICALLY ON HER FACE. SHOULDERS IMRISK. WHOO IT DEN IS SUPPORT I SAW IN THE VIDEO THAT HE'S BEING FORCIBLY RESTRAINED AND SUBDUED AND HE'S TRYING TO MOVE INTO A POSITION BY RUBBING HIS FACE AGAINST THE CONCRETE CEMENT OF THE GROUND. BY PULLING AGAINST THE HANDCUFFS, YOU CAN SEE THE INJURY TO THE WRISTS. AND BY PUSHING WITH HIS SHOULDER. AND HE ALSO HAD SOME SCRAPES ON HIS KNUCKLES, THE RIGHT HAND. AGAIN, THAT WAS HIM PUSHING TO TRY TO GET INTO A POSITION WHERE HE COULD BREATHE. >> DR. THOMAS, ARE THEIR PHOTOGRAPHS THAT DESCRIBE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? >> YES, THANK YOU. >> WE'VE STIPULATED TO THIS AND THERE ARE PACKETS FOR THE JUNE. >> THERE ARE STIPULATED PHOTOGRAPHS AS WE'VE SAID OR AS WE SAY PUBLISHED TO YOU. WE'RE GOING TO GO OLD SCHOOL. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BROADCAST IT BUT EVERYONE CIRCULATE HAVE. WE'LL COLLECT THEM AFTERWARD BECAUSE THESE ARE FOR YOU YO USE IN THE COURTROOM. THE ACTUAL VIDEO WILL BE AVAIL ILL ABLE. >> SHOULD I SELECT THEM OR -- >> YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND SELECT THEM. >> CURRENTLY THE PROSECUTION HERE IS HANDING OUT SOME INFORMATION TO THE JURY AS THEY QUESTION DR. LINDSEY THOMAS. SHE'S A PATHOLOGIST WHO HAS WORKED IN THE PAST IN HENNEPIN COUNTY. SHE'S WORKED WITH THE MEDICAL EXAMINER DR. AN DRY BAKER WHO CONDUCTED GEORGE FLOYD'S AUTOPSY, AND SHE'S TOLD THE COURT IN HER OPINION GEORGE FLOYD DIED OF LOW OXYGEN. THOMAS HAS ALSO EXPLAINED HOW HER FINDINGS DO NOT CONTRADICT THE AUTOPSY AND EXPLAINING THAT THE AUTOPSY REALLY DIDN'T ESTABLISH A CLEAR CAUSE OF DEATH OR MANNER OF DECK. JEFF JUST SAYING CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST, WHICH ESSENTIALLY MEANS SOMETHING DIED. SHE SAID IN THAT AUTOPSY REPORT, THE MAIN FAX TORE AT-- FACTORS CONTRIBUTED TO HIS DEATH. NOW AS I SAID, THE PROSECUTION IS PASSING OUT SOME MATERIALS TO THE JURY BEFORE THEY CONTINUE WITH THEIR QUESTIONS HERE OF DR. LYNN ZE TOMORROW. THOMAS ALSO DESCRIBED SOMETHING ELSE THAT WAS POSSIBLY CONFUSING ABOUT THE AUTOPSY. SHE SAYS AT TIMES WHEN SOMEONE DIES OF LOEKS ONSOMETHING LIKE THAT. SHE SAID THE ABSENCE OF THOSE SIGNS DOES NOT RULE OUT THAT SOMEONE DIED BY ASPHYXIA OR IN THE LANGUAGE SHE USES, DIED BY LOW OX VENN. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I DON'T STEP ON THE PROCEEDINGS AS THEY RESUME. IT LOOKS LIKE THEY MAY BE SHORT ON COPIES IN THE COURTROOM. THIS WILL ALL COME BEFORE WE HEAR FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER HIMSELF ABOUT THOSE FINDINGS AND WHAT THOSE FINDINGS MEAN, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE HAVING DR. THOMAS WALK US THROUGH IN GENERAL WHAT AN AUTOPSY MIGHT FIND AND IN GENERAL WHAT THE FINDINGS OF THIS AUTOPSY WERE BASED ON THE DOCUMENTATION AROUND IT. >> SO, DR. THOMAS, IF WE START WITH THE EXHIBIT THAT'S MARKED 185 -- >> YES. >> I TAKE THAT BACK. I'D LIKE TO SEE IT ON THE SCREEN. DR. THOMAS, LOOKING AT EXHIBIT 185, WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT INFORMED YOUR CONCLUSIONS PERTAINING TO THE RESTRAINT AND SUBDUAL AS A CAUSE OF MR. FLOYD'S DEATH? >> THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S FACE, AND IT SHOWS SOME FACIAL INJURIES, MOST NOTABLY WHAT ARE CALLED ABRASION, WHICH ARE SCATTERED RAINS OVERS HE LEFT EYEBROW AND OVER HIS LEFT CHEEK. YOU CAN ALSO SEE THERE'S LITTLER SCRAPES OR SMALL CUTS ON HIS NOSE AND LIP, UPPER LIP AND THEN A LITTLE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS LOWER LIP. THE MAIN THING IT SHOWSS THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS FACE WAS OBVIOUSLY IN CONTACT WITH SOME OF ROUGH SURFACE. >> IF YOU LOOK AT 235, IT MAY BE A CLOSE-UP OF THE SAME AREA. AFFIRMATIVE. HERE WE GO. YES, YES. THAT IS A CLOSE-UP OF THE LEFT CHEEK AND THE LEFT FOREHEAD, AND YOU CAN SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOVE THE LEFT EYEBROW THERE'S A DARK AREA THAT'S A DRIED SCRAPE AS WELL AS THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF DISCOLORATION OF THE SKIN SO THAT ALSO THERE WAS A BRUISE THERE. AND THEN ON HIS LEFT CHEEK YOU CAN SEE THE DARK AREA AS WELL AS A LIGHTER ORANGE/PINK AREA. THE DARE ARC YA IS WHERE THE SCRAPE HAS DRIED. >> WHAT DOES IT TELL YOU ABOUT THE CAUSE OR MECHANISM OF HIS DEATH? >> IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE IMPRESSION FROM WATCHING THE VIDEO THAT HIS FACE WAS ON THE GROUND AND HE WAS MOVING HIS FACE IN AN EFFORT TO GET INTO A POSITION WHERE HE COULD BREATHE. >> LET'S LOOK AT EXHIBIT 188. >> THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S LEFT SHOULDER. >> AND WHAT DID WE SEE HERE? >> THIS, AGAIN, IS AN AIR FORCE YA OF SCRAPES AND INDICATED THAT THERE WAS SOME FORCE BETWEEN HIS SHOULDER AND SOME ROUGH SURFACE, IN THIS CASE, THE GROUND. AGAIN, IT'S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT LOOKS LIKE ON THE VIDEO THAT HE'S STRUGGLING TO PUT HIMSELF INTO A POSITION WHERE HE CAN BREATHE. >> ALL RIGHT. LET'S LOOK AT SKPEXHIBIT 187. >> THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF HIS RIGHT SHOULDER, AND, AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF DISCOLORATION, AND THEN THE SKIN IS SCRAPED. SO THERE'S LESS INJURY IMPACT HERE, AND THAT FITS WITH, AGAIN, WHAT YOU SEE IN THE VIDEO OF WHICH SIDE WAS DOWN AND WHICH SIDE HAD MORE CONTACT WITH THE GROUND. >> LET'S LOOK AT EXHIBIT 189. >> THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S LEFT HAND, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE BASE OF HIS HAND, SORT OF RIGHT OVER HIS WRIST, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S SOME AREAS OF RED DISCOLORATION WITH KIND OF A PALE AREA IN BETWEEN, AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH HANDCUFF MARKS. YOU CAN ALSO SEE ON SORT OF THE OUTER EDGE, THERE'S SOME WHITE MATERIAL THAT'S DRIED SKIN, AROUND THAT'S AN AREA WHERE HIS SKIN HAS ACTUALLY BEEN RUBBED UP FROM THE HANDCUFFS. >> AND, DOCTOR, EXHIBIT 190? >> EXHIBIT 190 IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF HIS RIGHT HAND AND WRIST, AND, AGAIN, IN THIS CASE, YOU CAN SEE MORE CLEARLY SORT OF THE DOUBLE-LINED DISCOLORATION ABOVE HIS RIGHT WRIST THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE HANDCUFF MARKS AND INDICATES PRESSURE AGAINST HANDCUFFS. AND, AGAIN, ON THE OUTER EDGE, YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT WHERE IT'S DARKER, AND THEN THERE'S SOME WHITE SKIN. THAT'S AN AREA WHERE IT HAS BEEN SCRAPED. THE SKIN HAS BEEN SCRAPED BY THE HANDCUFFS. ALSO ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH, YOU CAN SEE ON THE KNUCKLES OF HIS INDEX FINGER AND MIDDLE FINGER, THERE'S SOME SKIN THAT IS SCRAPED OFF, AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU SEE ON THE VIDEO WHERE HE'S PUSHED AGAINST I THINK IT'S THE RIM OF THE CAR TIRE OR SOMETHING TO TRY AND PUSH HIS BODY INTO A POSITION, AGAIN, WHERE HE CAN BRE BREATHE. >> THANK YOU, DR. THOMAS. YOUR HONOR, THE JURORS MAY PUT THE PHOTOGRAPHS AWAY. [ INDISCERNIBLE ] >> NOT THE ACTUAL EXHIBITS. [ INDISCERNIBLE ] >> I'D ASK THE SPECTATORS ALSO TO RETURN THE EXHIBITS. COUNCIL -- BR [ INDISCERNIBLE ] >> THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. SO, DR. THOMAS,S HAVE LOOKED AT THIS PHYSICAL EVIDENCE FROM THE AUTOPSY, WAS THAT EVIDENCE BY ITSELF CONCLUSIVE? >> NO. THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS THE SCRAPES AND BRUISES CAN HAPPEN. >> WAS THERE ANY EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST MR. FLOYD WAS SUFFERING FROM A POTENTIALLY FATAL CONDITION ON THE EVENING ON MAY 25th, 2020? >> NO. >> ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION TO A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY IF MR. FLOYD WOULD IS HAVE WERE THERE OTHER MECHANISMS YOU FELT THAT CONTRIBUTED TO MR. FLOYD'S DEATH? >> YES. >> COULD YOU CHARACTERIZE WHAT THOSE WERE? >> SURE. I THINK A SECONDARY MECHANISM, IN THIS CASE, IS WHAT I REFERRED TO AS FPHYSIOLOGICAL STRESS. I DON'T MEAN LIKE THE STRESS OF SOMEBODY IS A TYPE A. PERSONALITY AND THEY HAVE A DEADLINE AT WORK AND THEY'RE STRESSED ABOUT IT. I'M NOT TALKED ABOUT THAT KIND OF STUFF. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE KIND OF PHYSICAL STRESS YOU FEEL WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING ALONG AND ALL OF A SUDDEN A CAR SWERVES IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU SLAM ON THE BRAKES AND REALIZE, OH, MY GOSH! IF I HADN'T REACTED, IF THAT HAPPENED A SECOND EARLIER, I WOULD HAVE BEEN IN A POSSIBLY FATAL CAR CRASH. YOU CAN FEEL YOUR HEART RACE AND YOU CAN KIND OF -- [ GASP ] AND THEN THE CAR SPEEDS ON AND YOU SLOW DOWN AND REALIZE I'M OKAY. EVERYBODY IN THE CAR IS OKAY. YOU KNOW, YOUR HEART RATE THEN SLOWS. OR I, I THINK EVEN WORSE, YOU'RE AT THE BEACH AND REALIZE MY TODDLER. I HAVEN'T SEEN MY TODDLER IN, UMM, OH, MY GOSH! WHERE IS MY TODDLER? AND THAT RUSH OF ADRENALINE YOU GET AND YOU FEEL FLUSHED AND YOU GET GOOSE BUMPS AND YOUR HEART RACES AND YOU FEEL SHORT OF BREATH AND THEN THERE THEY ARE. THEY'RE GETTING AN ICE CREAM CONE AND YOU GO, OH, OKAY. BUT IT TAKES YOU A MINUTE FOR YOUR HEART TO KIND OF SLOW DOWN AND YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE TO SLOW DOWN AND YOU TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND RECOVER YOURSELF. SO THAT'S THE KIND OF FIZZ LOGIC STRESS I'M TALKING ABOUT. INSTEAD OF AFTER A SECOND OR MINUTE, THIS GOES ON FOR A MINUTE AFTER MINUTE AFTER MINUTE FOR 9 MINUTES WHERE YOU ARE TERRIFIED AND YOU CAN'T -- THERE'S NO RECOVERY. SO IT'S THAT KIND OF FEAR OF LIFE THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR FISZ LOGIC STRESS. >> ARE YOU ABLE TO TELL US WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE BODY? >> SO IT'S THE REACTIONS ARE YOU CHEMICAL RELEASE? THOSE MAKE YOUR HEART RACE, YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE GO UP, YOU REQUIRE MORE YOUR MUSCLES GET READY TO ACT TO RUN TO DO WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO. TO SLAM ON THE BRAKES. IT'S YOUR MUSCLES WORKING SO ALL OF THOSE PHYSICAL THINGS, THOSE CHEMICAL THINGS CAN CAUSE REACTIONS IN THE BODY THAT WOULD PUT ADDITIONAL STRESS PRIMARILY ON YOUR HEART BUT ALSO ON ALL OF YOUR BODY SYSTEMS BECAUSE YOUR BODY REQUIRES YOUR CHEMISTRY TO BE IN FINE BALANCE. WHEN THERE'S TOO MUCH LACTIC ACID OR TOO MUCH -- NOT ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, NOT AN ABILITY TO COMPENSATE FOR THAT ELEVATED LACTIC ACID, THEN ALL OF YOUR BODY ORGANS WILL GET INTO TROUBLE. >> I GUESS I WOULD CONSIDER IT A CONTRIBUTORY TO THE CAUSE OF DEATH. IT'S ANOTHER CONTRIBUTING MECHANISM. >> SO THE DIRECT CAUSE IS WHAT THEN IN THE SECONDARY CAUSE IS WHAT? >> SO THERE'S A SORT OF PRIMARY MECHANISM, I THINK, AS ASPHYXIA OR LOW OXYGEN AND THE SECONDARY IS THE FIZZ LOGIC STRESS. ULTIMATELY THE CAUSE OF DEATH OF THE SUB DUAL RESTRAINT AND COMPRESSION. >> CAN THE PHYSIOLOGIC STRESS BE OBSERVED IN AUTOPSY? >> NO. >> WHY IS THAT? >> IT'S CHEMICAL REACTION. INCREASED HEART RATE, WHICH WE DON'T SEE AT AUTOPSY. IT'S INCREASED CHEMICALS WE CAN'T TEST FOR AT AUTOPSY. SO NONE OF IT IS ANYTHING THAT CAN BE SEEN PHYSICALLY. >> SO IT'S A FUNCTIONAL MECHANISM? >> YES. YES. THAT'S A GOOD WAY OF DESCRIBING IT. >> IS THE LOW OXYGEN ALSO A FUNCTIONAL MECHANISM? >> YES. >> COULD YOU TELL US AT THE PHYSIOLOGICAL STRESS WAS SIGNIFICANT TO YOUR CONCLUSION ON THE CAUSE OF MR. FLOYD'S DEATH? >> SO MR. FLOYD WAS ALREADY IN A POSITION WHERE HE WAS EXPERIENCING DIFFICULTY BREATHING AND GETTING ENOUGH OXYGEN IN HIS BODY. ON TOP OF THAT NOW THERE'S THIS PHYSIOLOGIC STRESS PUTTING INCREASED DEMAND ON HIS HEART, INCREASED DEMAND ON HIS LUNGS, INCREASED DEMAND ON HIS MUSCLES. ALL THE THINGS HE'S USING, HIS MUSCLES, HIS STRENGTH, HIS BODY TO TRY TO GET HIMSELF INTO A SAFE POSITION WHERE HE CAN BREATHE, THOSE ARE BEING DOUBLY STRESSED BY THE POSITION THAT HE'S IN AS WELL AS THE UNDERLYING CHEMICAL OF REACTIONS THAT ARE GOING ON IN HIS BODY. SO IT'S KIND OF A DOUBLE WHAMMY TO HIS HEART AND LUNGS AND MUSCLES AND HIS WHOLE SYSTEM. >> OKAY. SO, EXHIBIT 194, AGAIN, YOU WANT TO STIPULATE TO THE SUBJECT OF THE FOUNDATION LATER. FIRST, DR. THOMAS, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THIS IS? >> UMM, THIS IS A PRESS RELEASE THAT WAS PUT OUT BY THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE AT THE TIME THEY CERTIFIED THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH OF MR. FLOYD. >> AND IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE GENERATES THIS TYPE OF A PRESS RELEASE REPORT IN CERTAIN CASES? >> YES. >> SO THERE'S A SECTION IN THE PRESS RELEASE REPORT THAT REFERS TO MANNER OF DEATH. >> YES. >> LET'S SEE IF WE CAN OUTLINE THAT. AND YOU SEE THE WORD "HOMICIDE." >> YES. >> YOU SEE ALSO IN HERE INFORMATION WE SAW ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE WHAT THE PRESS RELEASE, ALSO, THAT SAYS HOW THE INJURY OCCURRED. >> YES. >> WOULD YOU READ THAT FOR THE RECORD? >> HOW INJURY OCCURRED EXPERIENCED PULL NAME ARREST BEING RESTRAINED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. >> AGAIN, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? >> YES. >> EXHIBIT 19. >> AND HOMICIDE IS A MANNER OF DEATH. >> YES. >> WOULD YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURORS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT IT IS MEDICAL EXAMINERS LOOK TO WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO DETERMINE MANNER OF DEATH? >> SURE. UNLIKE CAUSE OF DEATH, WHICH CAN BE FIVE THINGS. A DEATH CAN BE NATURAL MEANING ALL THE CONDITIONS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE DEATH ARE DUE TO JUST INNATE PROCESSES. COULD BE CANCER, COULD BE HEART DISEASE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SECOND CATEGORY IS AN ACCIDENT. THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE A MOTOR VEHICLE CRASH OR AN UNINTENDED DRUG OVERDOSE. THE THIRD CATEGORY WHICH IS SUICIDE, WHICH IS DEATH AT ONE'S OWN HANDS WITH AT LEAST PROBABLY SOME ELEMENT OF INTENT. THE FOURTH CATEGORY IS HOMICIDE AND THAT MEANS DEATH AT THE HANDS OF ANOTHER. THE FIFTH CATEGORY IS UNDETERMINED. THAT MEANS GENERALLY WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION ABOUT THIS TYPE OF DEATH TO MAKE A DETERMINATION TO FIT IT INTO ONE OF THE OTHER CATEGORIES. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT TERMINAL EVENTS EARLY ON. IN SOME CASES WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TERMINAL ENDS ARE BECAUSE THE PERSON IS FOUND DEAD IN THEIR RESIDENCE. WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ALIENATED FROM FAMILY. WE DON'T KNOW WERE THEY SAYING THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE THEIR LIVES? DID THEY HAVE A HISTORY OF USING DRUGS? DID THEY JUST GET OUT OF PRISON? WE'RE UNABLE TO GET ENOUGH INFORMATION TO SORT IT INTO IT WAS AN ACCIDENT DEATH OR INTENTIONAL SUICIDE DEATH. THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE WHERE WE MIGHT USE UNDETERMINED. WHERE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. >> SO, DR. THOMAS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE SCREEN IN FRONT OF YOU, DOES THIS DEPICT OR SHOW THE MANNERS OF DEATH? >> EXACTLY. >> AND HOMICIDE IS HIGHLIGHTED REFLECTING WHAT DR. BAKER THOUGHT. >> YES. >> AND DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT FINDING? >> YES. >> IN THE CASE OF GEORGE FLOYD? WE OFFER EXHIBIT 918. >> OKAY. >> THE EXHIBIT ITSELF HAS BEEN HIGHLIGHTED, CORRECT? >> YES, YOUR HONOR. >> FOR THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY, THESE ARE THE FIVE MANNERS OF DEATH YOU WERE DESCRIBING, DOCTOR THOMAS? >> YES. >> WE'VE HIGHLIGHTED HOMICIDE TO REFLECT WHAT DR. BAKER FOUND AND YOU AGREE WITH? >> YES. >> IS THERE ANY GUIDANCE GIVEN TO MEDICAL EXAMINERS ABOUT HOW TO SELECT HOMICIDE AS A MANNER OF DEATH? >> YES. THERE'S A GUIDE PUBLISHED BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINER'S THAT PROVIDES ASSISTANCE IN HOW TO MAKE A DETERMINATION BETWEEN THESE DIFFERENT. >> I'M GOING SHOW YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT 952. DO YOU SEE THAT, DR.? >> YES. >> IS THIS THE PUBLICATION TO PROVIDED TO DETERMINE MANNER OF DEATH? >> YES. >> WOULD EXCERPTS OF THIS GUIDE BE HELPFUL TO YOUR TESTIMONY? >> YES. >> WE OFFER EXCERPTS OF THE EXHIBIT 952. >> WE'LL TAKE OUR 20-MINUTE. WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE WORK HERE. SO LET'S GET BACK AROUND FIVE AFTER. 11: 05. >>> ALL RIGHT. COURT IS TAKING A QUICK 20-MINUTE BREAK AS THE PROSECUTION QUESTIONS DR. LINDSAY THOMAS. SHE'S CONDUCTED ROUGHLY 5,000 AUTOPSIES HERSELF AND SUPERVISOR AND PARTICIPATED IN MANY MORE AND HAS WORKED IN HENNEPIN COUNTY WITH THE MEDICAL EXAMINER WHO CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY IN THIS CASE, RATHER. WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM HIM LATER TODAY. WHAT WE HEARD FROM DR. THOMAS TODAY WAS THAT SHE AGREES WITH THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S FIND, IN THIS CASE, BUT FEELS THE AUTOPSY REPORT DOESN'T TELL THE FULL STORY AND SO SHE WALKED US THROUGH HOW SHE GOES ABOUT DETERMINING CAUSE OF DEATH AND HOW VIDEO EVIDENCE PLAYED SUCH A KEY ROLE IN HER DETERMINATION OF CAUSE OF DEATH IN THIS CASE, AND, ULTIMATELY, HER DETERMINATION IS THAT GEORGE FLOYD DIED OF LOW OXYGEN. I WANT TO PLAY A QUICK CLIP OR NOT SO QUICK CLIP, I SHOULD SAY, OF HER EXPLAINING HER CONCLUSIONS HERE AND WHY SHE GOT THERE. >> SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION. >> WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS? >> IN THIS CASE, I BELIEVE, THE PRIMARY MECHANISM OF DEATH IS ASPHYXIA OR LOW OXYGEN. >> WE'LL COME BACK TO THE MECHANISM IN JUST A MINUTE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT THE CAUSE OF DEATH MEANS AND WHY YOU AGREE WITH IT? >> WELL, IT'S IN TWO PARTS. SO, THERE'S THE CARDIO PULL NAME ARREST WHICH DOESN'T PROVIDE A LOT OF CLARIFYING INFORMATION. IN A WAY EVERYONE DIES WHEN YOUR HEART STOPS AND YOUR LUNGS STOP. THAT'S CARDIO PULMONARY ARREST. AS FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, I WOULD USE CARDIAC SO IT'S CLEAR FOR THE JURORS, DOES IT MEAN HEART ATTACK? >> NO. DOES IT MEAN FATAL ARRHYTHMIA AS A PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH? >> NO. IT MEANS THE HEART STOPS AND THE LUNGS HAVE STOPPED 1234. >> CORRECT. >> SO ANOTHER WAY OF SIMPLY DESCRIBING DEATH. >> RIGHT. I'M TO BRING IN TAMIKA McCOY. THE TESTIMONY FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER IS HIGHLY ANTICIPATED IN THIS CASE. IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE THEM PUT DR. THOMAS ON THE STAND BEFORE THEY PUT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER DR. BAKER ON THE STAND, IN THIS CASE. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY'RE HAVING GO THROUGH AND EXPLAIN THE FINDINGS OF THE AUTOPSY REPORT INSTEAD OF GETTING THAT FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER HIMSELF? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE -- WHAT THE PEOPLE HEAR FIRST AND LAST. AND DR. THOMAS, AS A VETERAN FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, IS ABLE TO EXPLAIN IN PLAIN LANGUAGE WHAT IS MEANT BY ASPHYXIA AND WHAT THE REASONS WERE FOR THE LOW OXYGEN IN THE BODY OF GEORGE FLOYD AT THE TIME OF HIS DEATH. SHE'S DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB OF BEING ABLE TO EXPLAIN THAT IN A WAY THAT IS EASY AND INGESTIBLE BY THE JURORS SITTING THERE LISTENING TO HER TESTIMONY. >> TERRI, A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT WHAT WE HAVE HEARD SO FAR FROM THE OTHER MEDICAL EXPERTS CONTRADICTS THE AUTOPSY REPORT. HERE YOU HAVE DR. THOMAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT'S NOT QUITE LIKE THAT. DO YOU THINK THIS WAS AN EFFECTIVE WAY FOR THE PROSECUTION TO TRY TO BRIDGE ANY GAPS BETWEEN WHAT THEIR OTHER MEDICAL EXPERTS ARE SAYING AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT? >> DIANNA, I THINK DR. THOMAS WAS A PERFECT WITNESS TO PUT ON RIGHT BEFORE THEY PUT ON DR. BAKER. I AGREE WITH TAMIKA. I THINK THE JURY HEARS FIRST IS SOMETHING THAT WILL STICK ON THEIR MINDS, BUT THE OTHER THING, I THINK, THE PROSECUTION IS DOING IS MAKING SURE THEY HAVE A WITNESS WHO CAN EXPLAIN WHAT WAS ON THAT AUTOPSY REPORT. WHAT EXACTLY WAS ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE, AND WHY DID DR. BAKER PUT THAT ON? THEY MAY NOT HAVE AS MUCH CONTROL OF DR. BAKER BUT HERE WITH DR. THOMAS, THEY ARE USING HER TO EXPLAIN IN GREAT DETAIL IN LAYMEN'S TERMS THAT THIS AUTOPSY REPORT IS VERY CONSISTENT WITH THE PROSECUTION'S THEORY. THEY BELIEVE THAT HE DEFINITELY DIED BECAUSE OF THE PRESSURE THAT HE HAD, OBVIOUSLY, ON HIS NECK AND ON HIS BACK AND THE FACT THAT HE WAS UP AGAINST THE CONCRETE. SHE IS BASICALLY SAYING ALL THAT. SHE AGREES WITH WHAT THE DEATH CERTIFICATE AND AUTOPSY SAYS BECAUSE SHE'S AGREEING THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A CARDIO PULMONARY ARREST, THAT BASICALLY MEANS YOU DIED. YOUR HEART STOPPED, BUT SHE SAYS IT'S BECAUSE OF THE SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND BECAUSE OF THE COMPRESSION. AND THAT'S WHAT CAUSED HIM TO STOP BREATHING. SHE'S BASICALLY LETTING THE JURY KNOW THAT THE CAUSE OF HIS DEATH WAS BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BREATHE. HE COULD NOT HAVE HIS CHEST GO UP-AND-DOWN. THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS, SHE SAID, YOU CAN BREATHE IS BECAUSE YOU CAN HAVE OXYGEN COMING IN AND OUT AND IT'S GOING BACK AND FORTH AND YOUR CHEST ALLOWS IT TO GO UP-AND-DOWN. I THOUGHT SHE WAS EXCELLENT. >> AND, TERRY, YOU'RE RIGHT, SHE EXPLAINED THIS ALL REALLY, REALLY WELL, BUT EVEN AS YOU JUST SAID IT, SHE'S EXPLAINING WHAT BAKER MEANT WHEN HE PUT SOMETHING DOWN ON A DOCUMENT. IF I'M THE JURY, I'M WONDERING WHY AM I HEARING FROM HER WHAT HE MEANT INSTEAD OF HEARING IT FROM HIM? DO YOU THINK THAT OFFERS ANY KIND OF RISK FOR THE PROSECUTION THAT MIGHT CONFUSE THE JURY AT ALL? >> WELL, I THINK THAT THE PROSECUTION DID A RISK ANALYSIS OF PUTTING HER ON AND NOT JUST DEALING WITH DR. BAKER, BUT I THINK THEY DID THAT BECAUSE SHE'S EXPLAINING IT EXACTLY THE WAY THEY WANT THE JURY TO HEAR IT. AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE AS MUCH CONTROL OVER DR. BAKER. SHE'S EXPLAINING WHY THERE ARE SOME SLIGHT DISCREPANCIES IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT AND IN THE CERTIFICATE OF DEATH. SHE'S TRYING TO LET THE JURY KNOW IT'S REALLY NOT A DISCREPANCY. WE DON'T ALWAYS PUT DOWN ALL THE REASONS. WE DON'T PUT DOWN LOW, SHALLOW BREATHS. WE'LL PUT DOWN THE FACT THAT YOU ULTIMATELY DIED BECAUSE OF THIS PULMONARY ARREST. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU HAD A HEART ATTACK. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT WAS A SUDDEN DEATH. SHE GAVE THE EXPLANATION OF SOMEONE WHO IS MOWING OR SHOVELING AND THEY HAVE A HEART ATTACK AND THAT'S SUDDEN. THIS WAS NOT SUDDEN. SHE EXPLAINED VERY WELL, ALSO, THAT THIS WAS NOT A DRUG OVERDOSE. SHE SAID THAT WHEN YOU HAVE METHAMPHETAMINE, THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE A QUICK HEART ATTACK AND THAT IS SUDDEN. WHEN YOU HAVE FENTANYL, SHE SAID THAT WOULD BE A SLOW DEATH. YOU WOULD FALL ASLEEP. SHE MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT NEITHER OF THOSE IS WHAT CAUSED GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH. THE FACT HE COULD NOT BREATHE. I THINK IT'S GOOD TO HEAR HER SAY THIS BECAUSE DR. BAKER MAY NOT GO INTO THAT MUCH DETAIL. THEY MAY NOT HAVE AS MUCH CONTROL OF HIM. >> AND, TAMIKA, I WONDER THE PART WHERE SHE'S EXPLAINING WHAT THE ONE SENTENCE THAT IDENTIFIES CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE AUTOPSY MEANS. HER SAYING "CARDIO PULMONARY ARREST" ESSENTIALLY MEANS YOU DIED BECAUSE IT MEANS YOUR LUNG AND HEART STOPS, WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL OF US WHEN WE DIE. SHE SAYS THAT'S, AS PATHOLOGIST, WHAT I USE WHEN I WANT TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THAT AND SAY HEART ATTACK OR CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIA WHICH SHE SAYS DIDN'T HAPPEN IN THIS CASE. TO EXPLAIN THE REST OF THE SENTENCE SHOWS THAT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT WAS THE MAIN FACTOR OF THAT DEATH, THAT CARDIO PULMONARY ARREST. JUST TO HAVE HER BREAK DOWN THAT SENTENCE, WHICH HAS BEEN SO CONFUSING FOR MONTHS AND HAS FUELLED SO MANY QUESTIONS, HOW HELPFUL IS THAT TO THE PROSECUTION WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO RELAY THIS TO THE JURY? >> OH, IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT! AND THE OTHER FACTOR WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IS, YOU HAVE THREE OFFICERS AWAITING TRIAL. THE EXCLAMATION THAT THE SUB DUAL RESTRAINT CONTRIBUTED TO WHY GEORGE FLOYD DIED THAT DAY IS CRITICAL TO THOSE PROSECUTIONS, AS WELL. THE FACT SHE BUTTONED UP WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH REGARDS TO DEREK CHAUVIN'S ACTIVITIES, WHAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN THE BODY OF GEORGE FLOYD, AT THE MOMENT HE'S TRYING TO TURN HIS BODY IN AN ATTEMPT TO GRASP FOR AIR SO HE CAN BREATHE, AND HOW THE MARKS ON HIS BODY EVIDENCES HIS ATTEMPTS TO ESSENTIALLY GET AIR INTO HIS BODY IS CRITICAL BECAUSE THOSE OTHER OFFICERS AWAITING TRIAL IS GOING TO BE FACED WITH THE SAME INFORMATION THAT DR. THOMAS IS ALSO PROVIDING. SO JUST AS IMPORTANT AS IT IS FOR THIS TRIAL, IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT FACTOR IN THE TRIALS TO COME. >> IT'S INTERESTING TO THINK ABOUT HOW ALL OF THIS EVIDENCE THAT WE'RE SEEING IN THIS TRIAL COULD FACTOR INTO THE FUTURE TRIALS OF THE OTHER OFFICERS INVOLVED IN THIS CASE, WHICH IS SCHEDULED TO BEGIN IN AUGUST. BUT THE OTHER PART THAT I FOUND INTERESTING ABOUT HER TESTIMONY WAS NOT JUST WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT HER FINDINGS, BUT ALSO HER EXPLANATION ABOUT HOW THEY ESTABLISHED CAUSE OF DEATH IN GENERAL. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE ON THAT PERSON'S BODY ON THE EXAM TABLE AT THAT MOMENT. I WANT TO PLAY THAT CLIP FOR YOU. >> WHAT DOES DEATH INVESTIGATION ENTAIL? >> WELL, THE WAY A MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE PERFORMS A DEATH INVESTIGATION, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ASSUME IT'S ALL ABOUT THE AUTOPSY, THE PHYSICAL EXAMINATION OF THE THE BODY, AND THAT'S REALLY JUST A TINY PART OF THE DEATH INVESTIGATION. THE DEATH INVESTIGATION REALLY STARTS AT THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN A DEATH IS FOUND. A PERSON IS FOUND DECEASED OR THE OFFICE IS NOTIFIED OF A DEATH. WE, AS MEDICAL EXAMINERS, WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THAT PERSON. WHAT IS THEIR PAST MEDICAL HISTORY, SOCIAL HISTORY, FAMILY HISTORY. SO WE'LL DO WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO TO GET THAT KIND OF HISTORY. THEN WE WANT TO KNOW, WELL, WHAT HAPPENED -- WHAT WERE THEIR TERMINAL EVENTS? WHAT HAPPENED AROUND THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH? WERE THEY COMPLAINING OF SOMETHING? WERE THEY INTERACTING WITH SOMEONE? WERE THEY DRIVING? WERE THEY, YOU KNOW, USING, YOU KNOW, MACHINERY? SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THEN WE'LL LOOK AT THE PHYSICAL EXAMINATION, AND THAT PART OF THE EXAM MIGHT INCLUDE X-RAIES, IT COULD INCLUDE GETTING SPECIMENS FOR TOXICOLOGY, FOR CULTURES, FOR ALL KINDS OF OTHER LABORATORY TESTS, INCLUDING LOOKING AT THINGS UNDER THE MICROSCOPE, LITTLE SECTIONS OF EACH ORGAN UNDER THE MICROSCOPE. THAT'S THE PHYSICAL EXAM PART. THEN WE'LL LOOK AT THE LABORATORY RESULTS. SO THAT WOULD BE USUALLY TOXICOLOGY, BUT AS I SAY, IT COULD BE BLOOD CULTURES OR MORE RECENTLY PROBABLY A LOT OF COVID TESTING, THAT KIND OF THING. THEN LOOK AT THE MICROSCOPIC SLIDES. THEN PUT ALL OF THAT TOGETHER WITH THE HISTORY, THE TERMINAL EVENTS, THE PHYSICAL FINDINGS, THE LABORATORY FINDINGS, AND THEN THAT'S HOW THE MEDICAL EXAMINER REACHES THE CONCLUSION ABOUT THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH. >> NOW, TERRY, ON THE ONE HAND, IT SEEMS LIKE THIS TESTIMONY IS TRYING TO, AS WE SAID, BRIDGE THE GAP AND SHOW THAT WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM MEDICAL TESTIMONY YESTERDAY IS NOT CONTRADICTORY TO THE FINDINGS AND THE AUTOPSY. ON THE OTHER HAND, HERE YOU HAVE DR. THOMAS TALKING ABOUT HOW IT'S THIS BIG COHESIVE PROCESS. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU AS YOU'RE CONDUCTING THE AUTOPSY. AND YET DR. BAKER, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, IN THIS CASE, HAS BEEN REPORTED AS SAYING HE DIDN'T WATCH ANY VIDEOS RELATED TO THE CASE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T THE PRESIDENT TOB BIAS HIM. HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT WITH DR. THOMAS SAYING IT'S THE PRIMARY FORM OF EVIDENCE SHE USES TO ESTABLISH HER THEORY OR HER CONCLUSION ON MECHANISM OF DEATH? >> WELL, I THINK SHE'S BEING USED AS AN EXPERT, DIANE. THE FACT SHE HAS BEEN PRACTICINGS FOR SO LONG. SHE'S A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST. SHE'S PRACTICING LONGER THAN DR. BAKER. I THINK THEY'RE USING HER MORE OF AN EXPERT HERE. IT MAKE SENSE TO THE JURY SHE WOULD USE THE INFORMATION, THE TERMINAL EVENT, THE HISTORY OF THE PATIENT, ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BODY. SO THAT MAKES SENSE AND OTHER FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS, IF YOU'VE HEARD AT OTHER TRIALS, THEY USE THAT, AS WELL. OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU HAVE A VIDEO, THAT IS GOING TO COME INTO PLAY. I LIKE THE FACT THAT SHE'S AN EXPERT HERE. SHE ALSO KNOWS DR. BAKER. IN FACT, SHE CATEGORIZED HIM AS A FRIEND. SO I THINK THE JURY IS LOOKING AT HER AS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THIS FIELD AND SHE'S AN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD. SHE'S MAKING SENSE, DIANE. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, HOW CAN YOU JUST LOOK AT THE BODY? OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED PRIOR TO WHEN THE INDIVIDUAL DIED. SO I THINK IT'S MAKING SENSE. I THINK SHE'S PULLING IT ALL TOGETHER. YOU MIGHT WANT TO LIST OTHER CONDITIONS THAT PERSON HAD. NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE THEY CAUSED THE DEATH OR EITHER CONTRIBUTED TO THE CAUSE OF DEATH, BUT BECAUSE AT SOME POINT DOWN THE LINE, IT MAY SERVE PUBLIC HEALTH TO KNOW THAT THIS PERSON ALSO HAPPENED TO HAVE THIS OTHER CONDITION. IS THAT ENOUGH, DO YOU THINK? >> I THINK SO. I THINK IT REALLY SHOWS THE COMPLETENESS OF HER EXAMINATION. I MEAN, IN ADDITION TO LOOKING AT THE HEART TISSUE AND LOOKING AT MICROSCOPIC SPECIMENS, WHICH SHE IS SAYING, SHE'S TAKING THE OTHER FACTORS OF ADDITIONAL STRESS THAT GEORGE FLOYD WOULD HAVE BEEN UNDER IN THE MOMENTS JUST BEFORE HIS LAST BREATH. SHE'S ALSO TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION UNDERLYING HEALTH ISSUES HE MAY HAVE HAD. LOOKING AT THE LUNGS DID NOT CONTRIBUTE TO HIS LOW OXYGEN AT THE TIME HE, YOU KNOW, PASSED ON. >> AND THE OTHER INTERESTING PART, I THOUGHT, WHEN SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER CONDITIONS WHY SHE RULED THEM OUT. SHE SAID SHE WANTED TO LOOK AT ALL OF THESE OTHER CONDITIONS AND INDIVIDUALLY ASK HERSELF COULD THIS HAVE BEEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH AND RULE EACH ONE OUT ONE BY ONE? HER EXPLANATION OF HOW SHE DID IT WAS BASED, SHE SAID, NOT NECESSARILY ON TREATING PEOPLE DIRECTLY BECAUSE SHE SAID I DON'T SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALIVE. I DON'T TREAT PATIENTS IN THAT WAY BUT SHE HAS SPOKEN TO SO MANY FAMILIES, HUNDREDS, SHE SAID, OVER THE COURSE OF HER WORK THAT BASED ON HOW FAMILIES DESCRIBED SOMEONE WHO, FOR EXAMPLE, DIED OF A FENTANYL OVERDOSE, SHE SAID THOSE PEOPLE SOMETIMES THEY HEAR THAT PERSON SNORING. AS IF THEY FELL ASLEEP. THEY FIND THAT PERSON SLUMPED OVER. IT'S A PEACEFUL KIND OF DEATH. THIS DOESN'T FIT WITH THAT. IT SOUNDS A LITTLE LESS SCIENTIFIC BUT IT'S ALSO VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. AND THE TWO POINTS YOU MENTIONED, DIANE, ARE TWO POINTS THAT I KNOW NELSON IS GOING TO USE ON HIS CROSS EXAMINATION. THE FACT THAT THESE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CAUSES ARE NOT WHAT CAUSED HIS DEATH AND THE REASON FOR THAT, SHE EXPLAINED, WAS BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO PUT THAT ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT AGENCIES WHO NEED TO COLLECT THE DATA. THAT MAKES SENSE, BUT IT'S NOT VERY SCIENTIFIC BECAUSE YOU THINK TO YOURSELF AS A JUROR, WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IF IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CAUSE OF DEATH? I THINK HER EXPLANATION MADE SENSE. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NELSON WILL FOLLOW UP ON ON THE CROSS EXAMINATION. AND I THINK YOUR OTHER POINT, THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE'S EXPLAINING IT IN AN UNSCIENTIFIC WAY, SHE DOESN'T LOOK AT PATIENTS. SHE FOCUSES ON THOSE WHO'VE ALREADY PASSED. SO GETTING EXPLANATIONS FROM PEOPLE THAT SHE'S WORKED WITH OR TALKED TO, IT DOESN'T SOUND AS SCIENTIFIC BUT, AGAIN, IT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE! AND I THINK THE JURY WILL UNDERSTAND THAT AND THE EXAMPLES SHE GAVE TO SUPPORT THAT REALLY DO MAKE SENSE. SHE TALKED ABOUT WHEN SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, DIES AND YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TERMINAL EVENT IS, I THINK IT WAS SOMETHING THE JURY IS GOING TO LISTEN TO. >> THERE'S BEEN ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT MORNING OF TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT HAPPENED BEFORE TESTIMONY STARTED TODAY. THE JUDGE CAME IN AND ASKED THAT THE CAMERAS BE TURNED OFF. SAID THEY NEEDED TO DO A PROCEEDING THAT NEEDED TO HAPPEN AWAY FROM THE CAMERAS AND AWAY FROM THE MICROPHONE, BUT HE GAVE THE PRESS PERMISSION TO REPORT ON WHAT HAPPENED IN THE COURTROOM. WE'LL GO LIVE OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM FOR US IN MINNEAPOLIS. A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION THERE ON WHAT HAPPENS. ALL WE HEARD FROM OUR END WAS HE REFERRED TO A JUROR AND THAT'S LITERALLY ALL WE HEARD. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THIS MORNING? >> Reporter: YEAH, DIANE. IT WAS A MYSTERY FOR THE LAST FEW HOURS. WE'RE FINDING OUT WHAT THEY DID AT THE TOP OF THE MORNING. A JUDGE ASKED ONE OF THE JURORS IF SHE HAD ANY OUTSIDE CONTACT OR INFLUENCES. SHE SAYS SHE TURNED ON THE TV BRIEFLY AND SAW ONE OF THE LAWYERS WITH THE DARK HAIR, SHE SAID THE SOUND ON THE TV WAS OFF, AND TURNED IT BACK OFF. NOW THE JUDGE CONTINUED TO ASK IF SHE HAD ANY OUTSIDE CONTACT. SHE SAID HER MOTHER-IN-LAW TEXTED HER. SHE SAID SOMETHING TO THE FACT IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS A BAD DAY. SHE DIDN'T TEXT HER BACK. NOW WE'RE ALSO LEARNING THAT THE SEATS RESERVED FOR DEREK CHAUVIN, FOR THE FIRST TIME, ONE OF THOSE SEATS IS FILLED WITH SOMEONE, WE'RE NOT EXACTLY SURE WHO, BUT THIS IS DAY 10 OF THE TRIAL. ONE OF THE FIRST TIME ONE OF THE SEATS RESERVED FOR CHAUVIN IS FILLED. >> INTERESTING. THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND, TAMIKA, HELP US EXPAND. WHEN YOU HAVE A CASE GETTING THIS MUCH ATTENTION AND YOU KNOW MOST OF YOUR RELATIVES AND FRIENDS IS KEEPING UP WITH IT. AND ANY TIME YOU TURN ON THE TV, YOU'RE BOUND TO RISK POSSIBLY SEEING SOMETHING ABOUT THE CASE. HOW DIFFICULT IS IT FOR JURORS TO KEEP THEMSELVES INSULATED? >> IT'S DIFFICULT BUT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. WHAT THE JUDGE AND THE COURT WANTS TO CONSIDER IS THOSE PRESENTED INSIDE THE COURTROOM AND NOT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING OUTSIDE OF THE COURTROOM OR OPINIONS THAT ARE HAD OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM. THAT'S WHY THERE'S A RESTRICTION ON JURORS GETTING INFORMATION FROM OUTSIDE SOURCES HERE. ONLY TO CONSIDER THAT EVIDENCE THAT IS PRESENTED DURING THE COURSE OF THE TRIAL. THE OTHER IMPORTANT FACTOR IS WHETHER OR NOT THAT INFORMATION CAN IMPINGE ON THAT WITNESS TO INDEPENDENTLY ASSESS THE EVIDENCE THAT IS BEING PRESENTED DURING THE COURSE OF THE TRIAL. THAT'S SOME OF THE QUESTIONING THAT A JUDGE WILL GO THROUGH JUST TO ENSURE THAT THEIR INDEPENDENCE HASN'T BEEN IMPINGED IN ANY WAY. IT MUST NOT HAVE BEEN ONE IDENTIFIED AS -- BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, THERE WOULD BE AN ORDER THAT WOULD PRESENT ANYONE WHO MISPRESENTS TESTIMONY TO ANY OF THE OTHER TESTIMONIES OF WITNESSES WHO TAKE THE WITNESS STAND. SO TYPICALLY YOU WOULD NOT HAVE MORE POTENTIAL WITNESSES SITTING IN THE COURTROOM OBSERVING WHAT SOMEONE ELSE SAID. THAT'S SPECIFICALLIED. WHOEVER IS SITTING IN THE COURTROOM, WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THEY CANNOT TESTIFY DURING THE COURSE OF THE TRIAL. >> AND WE'RE EXPECTING THEM TO COME BACK IN ABOUT A MINUTE OR SO. BUT, TERRY, IF WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME, I WANTED TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE OTHER PART OF DR. THOMAS' TESTIMONY. W WHEN SHE TALKED ABOUT THE SECONDARY MECHANISM SHE SUSPECTS PLAYED A ROLE IN GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH. SHE TALKED ABOUT PHYSIOLOGICAL STRESS. THE FEELING YOU GET IF YOU THINK YOUR TODDLER IS MISSING A THE BEACH AND YOUR HEART RACES, YOUR ADRENALINE PUMPS, YOU ARE SHORT OF BREATH. WHEN YOU DISCOVER THE TODDLER IS FINE AND OUT OF THE LINE OF VISION, IT TAKES A MINUTE FOR YOU TO FINALLY CALM DOWN. FOR YOUR HEART RATE AND BLOOD PRESSURE TO SLOW. IT. FOR YOU TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH. SHE SAID IMAGINE THAT HAPPENING FOR 9 MINUTES STRAIGHT. YOU DON'T GET THAT CHANCE TO RECOVER ALL THOSE CHEMICALS PUMPING THROUGH YOUR BODY CAN DO DAMAGE TO YOUR ORGANS. I WONDERED IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE CONFUSING TO THE JURY TO THROW THIS EXTRA NEW THING OUT THERE OR IF YOU THINK IT WAS SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH THEY NEEDED TO PUT IT OUT THERE? >> WELL, I THINK THAT SHE CLARIFIED. I AGREE IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION TO TAKE IN. YOU'RE TRYING TO DETERMINE THE CAUSE OF DEATH. AND SHE DID SAY THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH WAS THE LOW OXYGEN AND THE SECONDARY CAUSE WAS THIS PHYSIOLOGICAL STRESS. IF YOU EXPLAINED IT VERY WELL THAT IT HAS AN EFFECT ON YOUR BODY, YOUR HEART RATE STARTS INCREASING, BUT SHE SAID THESE ARE FUNCTIONAL MECHANISMS AND INCREASED DEMAND ON THE BODY BUT SHE WENT BACK TO THE FACT THAT IT'S PRIMARILY THIS SUBDUAL CONSTRAINT AND COMPRESSION. SHE TRIED VERY HARD TO CLARIFY THAT POINT THAT ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS ARE SECONDARY. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHAT COULD HAVE KILLED HIM AND WHAT DID KILL HIM, IN HER OPINION, WAS THE LOW OXYGEN AND ULTIMATELY HE COULD NOT BREATHE. >> AS A LAYMAN I'M THINKING ABOUT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE. I KNOW THAT'S LARGELY POWERED BY ADRENALINE. THE MAIN PERSON WE HEAR MENTIONING ADRENALINE IS THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY IN THIS CASE. SO COULD THE DEFENSE USE THAT PART OF HER TESTIMONY TO TRY TO MAKE THEIR ARGUMENT FOR REASONABLE DOUBT HERE? >> YOU BELIEVE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. NELSON WILL TALK ABOUT THE FACT, WELL, COULD ONE OF THE CAUSES OF DEATH BE THIS ADRENALINE. AGAIN, SHE'S TRYING TO SAY THIS IS SECONDARY AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE JURY IS GOING TO BE CONFUSED BY THAT. OBVIOUSLY, YOUR BODY HAS A RESPONSE. >> ALL RIGHT. AND DR. THOMAS IS ON THE STAND. LET'S LISTEN. >> AND WE DISCUSSED AND WE WANT TO RESUME OUR DISCUSSION ON HOMICIDE AFTER THAT. JUST TO CLARIFY FOR THE JURORS WHAT THESE VARIOUS CLASSIFICATIONS ARE. IF A HEART ATTACK. IF WE TALK ABOUT AN ACCIDENTAL CAUSE OF DEATH, WHERE WOULD THE DRUG OVERDOSE FIT, IN GENERAL, AS A CAUSE OF DEATH? >> USUALLY DRUG OVERDOSES ARE ACCIDENTAL UNLESS THERE'S EVIDENCE OF INTENT, IN WHICH CASE IT'S SUICIDAL. >> AND UNDETERMINED IF THE MEDICAL EXAMINER CAN'T TELL WHICH OF THESE IT IS OR WHAT IT IS, THEN UNDETERMINED IS WHAT YOU INDICATE? >> EXACTLY. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> SO IF THE MANNER OF DEATH HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE HOMICIDE DOES THAT, IN YOUR OPINION, AS MEDICAL EXAMINER, RULE OUT ANY DEATH BY ACCIDENTAL DRUG OVERDOSE? >> YES. >> OKAY. EXHIBIT 952. AND DEMONSTRATIVE PURPOSES. SO, DOCTOR, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DESIGNATION OF HOMICIDE. >> YES. >> AND TELL US WHAT THIS GUIDE IS AS IT RELATES TO HOW WE DEFINE HOMICIDE AS MEDICAL EXAMINERS. >> HOMICIDE IS DEFINED IN THE MOST BROAD SENSE, AS DEATH AT THE HANDS OF ANOTHER. IT GOES INTO MORE DEATH, IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT THAT. >> YES. BUT THE DISTANCE GUIDANCE GIVEN FROM THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS TO MEDICAL EXAMINERS. >> EXACTLY. >> IT PROVIDES GUIDANCE AND GUIDELINES HOW TO DESIGNATE A MANNER OF DEATH AS HOMICIDE. >> YES. >> IF WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. SO, DOCTOR, COULD YOU READ THIS FOR THE RECORD? >> HOMICIDE OCCURS WHEN DEATH RESULTS FROM A ACT COMMITTED BY ANOTHER PERSON TO CAUSE FEAR, HARM, OR DEATH. INTENT TO CAUSE DEATH IS A COMMON ELEMENT BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED FOR CLASSIFICATION AS HOMICIDE OR BELOW. IT'S TO BE EMPHASIZED THAT THE CLASSIFICATION OF HOMICIDE FOR THE PURPOSES OF DEATH CERTIFICATION IS A "NEUTRAL" TERM AND NEITHER INDICATES NOR IMPLIES CRIMINAL INTENT, WHICH REMAINS A DETERMINATION, WITHIN THE PROVINCE OF LEGAL PROCESSES. >> AND DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> IT'S A GUIDELINE YOU FOLLOW? >> YES. >> AND HAVE YOU FOLLOWED THAT AS A GUIDELINE FOR THE YEARS YOU'VE BEEN A MEDICAL EXAMINER? >> YES. >> IS THERE MORE GUIDANCE GIVEN FROM THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINER GUIDELINES OF WHAT INSTITUTES VOLUNTARY ACTS? YES. >> IF YOU CAN -- SO, DR. THOMAS, CAN YOU READ THIS? >> IN GENERAL, IF A PERSON'S DEATH RESULTS AT THE HANDS OF ANOTHER WHO COMMITTED A HARMFUL, VOLITIONAL ACT, DIRECTED AT THE VICTIM, THE DEATH MAY BE CONSIDERED A HOMICIDE FROM THE DEATH INVESTIGATION STANDPOINT. ALL THOUGH THERE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN INTENT TO KILL THE VICTIM, THE VICTIM DIED BECAUSE OF THE HARMFUL, INTENTIONAL, VOLITIONAL ACT COMMIT BID ANOTHER PERSON. THUS, THE MANNER OF DEATH MAY BE CLASSIFIED AS A HOMICIDE BECAUSE OF THE INTENTIONAL OR VOLITIONAL ACT, NOT BECAUSE THERE WAS AN INTENT TO KILL. >> AND WHEN YOU AGREE WITH THE CONCLUSION OF DR. BAKER REACHED OF HOMICIDE, IS THIS THE DEFINITION OF HOMICIDE THAT YOU'RE APPLYING THAT WE SAW IN THE TWO SLIDES? >> YES. >> THANK YOU, DOCTOR. >> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT A NEW SUBJECT. THIS HAS TO DO WITH WITH WITH CERTAIN STUDIES AND ASSESS WHETHER THE SUBDUAL RESTRAINT IS DANGEROUS FROM A BREATHING POINT OF VIEW. I WOULD LIKE TO GET YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS OF A PATHOLOGIST AND MEDICAL EXAMINER. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY SUCH STUDIES? >> YES. >> DO YOU AGREE WITH THE RESEARCH THAT COMES TO A CONCLUSION THAT THE RESTRAINT IS NOT DANGEROUS FOR RES PIRATION? >> IN CERTAIN LABORATORY, SAFE SETTINGS, IT MAY BE TRUE. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THEIR APPLICABILITY TO REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. >> AND IF YOU CAN GENERALLY CHARACTERIZE FOR THE JURORS, WHAT IS THE PUNCH LINE OF THESE STUDIES? WHAT DO THEY SHOW? >> THEY PROPORT TO SHOW PUTTING SOMEONE IN A PRONE POSITION, EVEN WITH SOME RESTRAINT AND WITH WEIGHT ON THEIR BACK IS PERFECTLY SAFE. >> AND DO YOU FIND THESE STUDIES TO BE RELIABLE? DO YOU FIND THEM CONTROVERSIAL? >> WELL, I THINK THEY ARE FINE FOR LABORATORY PURPOSES BUT THEY BEAR NO RESEMBLANCE TO REAL WORLD SITUATIONS. I WOULD SAY THEY'RE IRRELEVANT FOR PURPOSES OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. >> HOW DO THEY THEN NOT RELATE TO THE REAL WORLD? WHAT IS ARTIFICIAL ABOUT THEM? >> WELL, I WOULD SAY FOR STARTERS, THESE ARE VOLUNTEERS WHO HAVE AGREED TO BE PUT IN THIS DANGEROUS POSITION OF A PRONE RESTRAINT. ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS STAY STOP. THAT HAPPENED IN SOME OF THESE STUDIES. A COUPLE OF VOLUNTEERS SAID, WAIT, NO, I CAN'T TOLERATE BEING IN THIS POSITION. IT'S TOO SCARY. THAT, TO ME, IMMEDIATELY TAKES OUT THAT TERROR. THE PHYSIOLOGICAL STRESS. THAT'S NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, THEY ARE HEALTHY VOLUNTEERS. THESE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE HOSTLY YOUNG PEOPLE, MOSTLY HEALTHY, WHO HAVE AGREED TO BE PART OF THIS STUDY. IT DOESN'T RELATE TO SOMEONE WHO MAY HAVE OTHER UNDERLYING FACTORS THAT MAY CONTRIBUTE. THIRDLY, THERE'S -- THEY'RE PUT ON, LIKE, A GYMNASTIC MAT TO BE FACE DOWN. IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WHEN YOU'RE SQUISHED BETWEEN A PERSON AND A HARD GROUND VERSUS HAVING AN EVENLY DISTRIBUTED WEIGHT ON YOUR BACK AND YOU'RE ON A MAT. THIRD -- OR, FOURTH, I GUESS, AND PERHAPS MOST SIGNIFICANTLY HERE, NONE OF THEM WENT ON AND ON AND ON BEYOND THE POINT WHERE THE PERSON STOPPED BREATHING AND WHERE THEIR HEART STOPPED. SO THEY WERE BEING MONITORED THE WHOLE TIME. IF AT ANY TIME THEY HAD SIGNIFICANT RESPIRATORY OR CARDIAC DIFFICULTIES, THE STUDY WOULD HAVE STOPPED AND THE PERSON VOLUNTEERING KNEW THAT. TO ME, IT JUST BEARS NO RESEMBLANCE TO WHAT MR. FLOYD EXPERIENCED. >> DID ANY OF THE STUDIES INVOLVE A KNEE ON THE NECK OF ANY OF THE VOLUNTEERS? >> NO. >> ANY OF THEM GO ON FOR AS LONG AS 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS? >> NO. >> DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OF THE STUDIES ACTUALLY MEASURED THE DECREASE IN LUNG VOLUMES AS PART OF THE STUDY THAT IS DECREASE IN OXYGEN RESERVES? >> NOT THAT I KNOW OF. >> ANY RELEVANCE TO GEORGE FLOYD, AT ALL? >> NOT IN MY OPINION, NO. >> SO, DR. THOMAS, HAVE YOU DONE ANY CALCULATIONS OR WORK OF YOUR OWN TO MEASURE WHAT THE SUBDUAL RESTRAINT, THE KNEE ON THE NECK AND THE BACK OF GEORGE FLOYD WOULD HAVE DONE TO HIS OXYGEN RESERVES OR LUNG CAPACITY? >> NO. THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I WOULD COMPLETELY DEFER TO A PULMONARY DOCTOR TO ADDRESS. >> ARE YOU ABLE TO TELL THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN ON THE JURY IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THAT WORK, WHETHER THE FORCES THAT MR. FLOYD WAS SUBJECTED TO WOULD HAVE KILLED A NORMAL, HEALTHY PERSON? >> IN THE WAY YOU PHRASE THAT, NOT BASED ON LUNG VOLUME AND THAT KIND OF STUDY. I MEAN, FROM WATCHING THE VIDEO, I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T WANT TO BE IN THAT POSITION BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT ANSWER. >> THANK YOU, DR. THOMAS. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. >> GOOD MORNING, DR. THOMAS. >> GOOD MORNING. >> HOW ARE YOU TODAY? >> GOOD. >> NICE TO SEE YOU. YOU DESCRIBE BEING A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST AS BEING A DOCTOR'S DOCTOR, RIGHT? >> GENERAL PATHOLOGIST IS CONSIDERED THAT, YES. >> AND THE FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, IN TERMS OF A DEATH INVESTIGATION, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO WEAR MANY HATS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BROAD FAMILIARITY WITH THE MULTIPLE MEDICAL CONDITIONS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND SOMETIMES MEDICAL CONDITIONS MAY APPEAR AT AUTOPSY THAT YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE? >> YES. >> RIGHT. SOME STRANGE DISEASE THAT YOU'VE NEVER SEEN, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND YOU HAVE TO REVIEW AND SPEAK TO OTHER DOCTORS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> YOU WILL GATHER INFORMATION AND, UMM, SHARE THAT -- THEY'LL SHARE INFORMATION WITH YOU TO HELP YOU CONCLUDE -- MAKE CONCLUSIONS IN AN AUTOPSY, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND YOU ALSO DESCRIBED HOW BEING A MEDICAL EXAMINER IS MORE THAN JUST THE AUTOPSY, RIGHT? >> YES. >> THE AUTOPSY IS ONE SMALL PART OF A DEATH INVESTIGATION, RIGHT? >> YES. >> YOU DESCRIBED WORKING THROUGH VIDEO TAPES, IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, RIGHT? >> YES. >> THE PAST MEDICAL RECORDS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> INTERVIEWS WITH FRIENDS, FAMILY MEMBERS, PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE DECEDENT, RIGHT? >> YES. >> ULTIMATELY THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE COMPILES A MASSIVE, YOU KNOW, AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ITSELF ABOUT THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND YOU'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW A LOT OF THAT INFORMATION, IN THIS CASE, CORRECT? >> YES. >> NOW, HAVE YOU REVIEWED ALL OF THE INTERVIEWS OF WITNESSES? >> PROBABLY NOT ALL OF THEM, NO. >> OKAY. HAVE YOU -- AFTER YOU PREPARED YOUR REPORT, HAVE YOU BEEN PROVIDED WITH ADDITIONAL MATERIALS THAT MAY BE RELEVANT TO YOUR CONSIDERATIONS? >> UMM -- NOT THAT I CAN THINK OF OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. >> OKAY. >> WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT. YOU DID HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW DR. BAKER'S ENTIRE FILE? >> YES. >> AND I BELIEVE WE'LL BE HEARING FROM DR. BAKER LATER THIS MORNING OR THIS AFTERNOON, BUT WE'LL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR HIM. I WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW UP ON SOME OF YOUR CONCLUSIONS. >> THERE'S A TERM USED IN DR. BAKER'S AUTOPSY WHERE THE CAUSE OF DEATH, THE TERM "COMPLICATING." >> YES. CAN YOU DESCRIBE MEDICALLY SPEAKING WHAT THE TERM "COMPLICATED" MEANS. >> LO OH, I GUESS IT COULD BE USED IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS. UMM, THE WAY I WOULD THINK OF IT IN THIS SETTING IS BOTH THINGS WERE PRESENT. THAT THERE WAS A CARDIO PULMONARY ARREST AND IT WAS DUE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND COMPRESSION. >> OKAY. >> I GUESS THAT'S HOW I WOULD CONSIDER IT, IN THIS SETTING. >> HAVE YOU BEEN PROVIDED WITH DR. BAKER'S INFORMATION ABOUT DR. BAKER'S OPINIONS IN THIS CASE? >> UMM, NOTHING VERY SPECIFIC. I MEAN, JUST WHAT HE PUT IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT AND ALL OF HIS CONCLUSIONS. >> RIGHT. IN TERMS OF THE WORD "COMPLICATING," IT'S CAPABLE OF DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS BASED UPON THE FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, RIGHT? >> YES. >> RIGHT. SO YOU, AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF WHAT COMPLICATING MEANS COMPARED TO DR. BAKER, FOR EXAMPLE? >> YES. >> AND THERE'S A REASONABLE DEGREE OF DISAGREEMENT IN ANY CASE, GENERALLY, IT'S REASONABLE FOR DOCTORS TO DEGREE WITH EACH OTHER, IS IT NOT? >> THAT SOMETIMES HAPPENS, YES. >> ALL RIGHT. YOU DID NOT PERFORM THE ACTUAL AUTOPSY OF MR. FLOYD, CORRECT? >> YES. >> AND THAT WAS DR. BAKER WHO DID THAT, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND YOU KNOW DR. BAKER WELL? >> YES. >> AND YOU KNOW HIM TO BE A COMPETENT MEDICAL EXAMINER? >> YES. >> OKAY. HE'S THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER FOR HENNEPIN COUNTY, AT THIS TIME? >> YES. >> YOU WERE PROVIDED, AGAIN, WITH ALL THE INFORMATION FROM HIS REPORT, AND I WOULD LIKE TO GO THROUGH A FEW OF THE THINGS WITH YOU. LET'S TALK ABOUT MR. FLOYD'S HEART FIRST. >> OKAY. >> AND, UMM, WHAT WAS THE SIZE OF MR. FLOYD'S HEART AS MEASURED AT AUTOPSY? >> THE WEIGHT OF MR. FLOYD'S HEART WAS 540 GRAMS. >> OKAY. AND WOULD YOU EXPLAIN OR DESCRIBE THAT AS AN ENLARGED HEART? >> I WOULD SAY IT'S A SLIGHTLY LARGE HEART, YES. >> THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENT MEASURES OF HOW TO BASE AND ENLARGED HEART OR DETERMINE IF A HEART IS ENLARGED, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. BY SOME CATEGORIES THAT, HEART WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED ENLARGED. >> THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT KIND OF PRIMARY MEASURES, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, OR PRIMARY WAYS OF COMPARING MR. FLOYD'S HEART TO DETERMINE IF IT'S ENLARGED, RIGHT? THE LEAN ON STUDIES AND THE NORTHWESTERN STUDIES. >> OH, I SEE. THERE'S PROBABLY MULTIPLE WAYS OF LOOKING AT HEART WEIGHTS. I MEAN, THOSE ARE TWO OF THEM. THERE'S THE STUDY FROM THE MAYO CLINIC, THERE'S ONE IN EUROPE, YEAH, THERE'S LOTS OF WAYS OF ANALYZING. >> ULTIMATELY BASED ON ALL OF YOUR INFORMATION, YOU WOULD AGREE THAT MR. FLOYD'S HEART WAS SLIGHTLY ENLARGED. >> YES. >> TERMS OF THE KEY MAILLOT STANDARD, WHAT WOULD A NORMAL HEART WEIGHT FOR A PERSON SIMILAR TO MR. FLOYD. >> I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. >> WOULD YOU DISAGREE IF YOU SAID IT'S 383 GRAMS? IT VERY WELL COULD BE. FOR THE AVERAGE. >> FOR THE AVERAGE, RIGHT. >> YEAH. >> SO ACCORDING TO -- IF THAT WERE THE AVERAGE HEART RATE OR HEART SIZE, EXCUSE ME, HEART WEIGHT 383 GRAMS, RELEVANT TO MR. FLOYD'S HEART, MR. FLOYD'S HEART WOULD BE CONSIDERED PROFOUNDLY ENLARGED? >> WELL, THE THING ABOUT USING AVERAGES IN ESPECIALLY MEDICINE, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, I'M MOST FAMILIAR WITH. WE DON'T GENERALLY COMPARE IT TO AN AVERAGE. WE USUALLY COMPARE TO AN AVERAGE PLUS OR MINUS TWO STANDARD DEVIATIONS. THAT'S WHY THE RANGE THAT I USUALLY USE IS, YOU KNOW, FROM 253 TO 510 GRAMS WOULD BE THE RANGE OF A NORMAL FOR SOMEONE OF MR. FLOYD'S HEIGHT. AND SO I DON'T KNOW IN THE DE MAYO STUDY WHAT THEIR TWO STANDARD DEVIATIONS WOULD BE. I WOULDN'T USE JUST THE AVERAGE. >> OKAY. AND SO IN TERMS OF YOUR -- HOW YOU WOULD ASSESS THE WEIGHT OR SIZE OF THE HEART, YOU WOULD SAY 5' 510 GRAMS IS THE HIGH END OF THAT. >> RIGHT. >> AND 540 EXCEEDS THAT, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. IN TERMS OF A WHETHER IT'S A VERY ENLARGED HEART OR EVEN RELATIVELY MINIMALLY ENLARGED HEART, A LARGER HEART REQUIRES MORE BLOOD, RIGHT? >> YES. IT HAS GREATER DEMAND, YES. >> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT CAUSE A PERSON TO HAVE THE ENLARGED HEART? >> PROBABLY THE PRIMARY CAUSE IS HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. >> OKAY. AND YOU UNDERSTAND BASED ON MR. FLOYD'S MEDICAL RECORDS THAT HE DID, IN FACT, HAVE A HISTORY OF HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, CORRECT? >> YES. >> CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE BLOOD VESSELS THE HEART? >> THERE ARE SEVERAL MAJOR CORONARY ARTERIES THAT IS, AS I MENTIONED, SUPPLY BLOOD AND NUTRIENTS TO THE HEART MUSCLE. THERE'S THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT BRANCHS INTO THE LEFT ANTERIOR DECEMBER SCENTING AND THE LEFT FLEX AND THERE'S OTHER RANGES OFF THAT. >> HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE NARROWING STENOSIS OF THE CORONARY ARTERIES? SO THE WAY, AS FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS DESCRIBE IT, WE LOOK AT THE OPENING. SO IF AN OPENING IS FULLY OPEN, THEN THAT WOULD BE 0% NARROWING. IF IT'S COMPLETELY CLOSED IT WOULD BE 100%. SO WE LOOK AT ANYTHING RANGING FROM 25, 50, 75, 90%. HONESTLY, IT'S AN EYE BALL ESTIMATION. WE DON'T ACTUALLY GET OUT CALIPERS AND MEASURE BECAUSE THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. IT'S MORE A DID THEY HAVE CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE? WAS IT PRETTY GOOD? PRETTY BAD? THAT SORT OF THING. >> CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROXIMAL AND DISTAL? >> WELL, THE WAY THE CORONARY ARTERIES SUPPLY BLOOD TO THE HEART, THEY COME OFF THE AORTA, WHICH IS THE MAIN VESSEL THAT TAKES BLOOD FROM THE HEART TO THE REST OF THE BODY. AND SO IN CLOSE TO THE AORTA IS CALLED PROXIMAL TO THE AORTA. THEN THE FURTHER OUT IT GOES, DISTRIBUTING BLOOD ALONG THE WAY TO THE HEART MUSCLE, IS CALLED DISTAL. >> WHEN YOU HAVE PROXIMAL MARREROING -- NARROWING, HOW DOES IT AFFECT THE HEART? >> IT CAN NARROW THE BLOOD SUPPLY TO MORE OF THE HEART THAN IF YOU HAVE DISTAL NARROWING. >> ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THAT WOULD BE DECREASES THE AMOUNT OF BLOOD THE HEART IS GETTING, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND IT ALSO AFFECTS HOW THINGS ARE REMOVED FROM THE HEART? LIKE CO 2 CARBON DIOXIDE? >> UMM, WELL, THAT'S DIFFERENT. THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN FROM THE BLOOD VESSELS COMING IN, I DON'T THINK. I WOULDN'T INCLUDE CARBON DIOXIDE IN THAT. >> IS THERE A STANDARD WITHIN FORENSIC PATHOLOGY WHERE PATHOLOGISTS WILL CONSIDER TO BE THERE'S ENOUGH OF A NARROWING TO CAUSE SUDDEN DEATH? >> SO THE WAY I WOULD DESCRIBE THAT IS ANYTHING OVER MORE THAN 70 TO 75% IS IN THE VIEW OF A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST SOMETHING THAT IN THE ABSENCE OF ANOTHER CAUSE OF DEATH COULD BE USED TO EXPLAIN DEATH. IT'S ALSO TRUE PEOPLE LIVE WITH 100% ACOLLUSION AND GO ON AND DO FINE. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS STRICTLY MY PERSPECTIVE AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST AND EVERYONE I SEE IS DEAD. THAT'S KIND OF A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT MAILLOT SIGH CEO SIS IS. >> IT'S THE NAME OF THE HEART MUSCLE CELLS. SO SIGHT BEING CELL. IT'S CYTE. MAYO MEANS MUSCLE. WHEN YOU HAVE A HEART MAYOCITE IT'S THE HEART MUSCLE CELL. AND THAT MEANS DEATH. IF YOU SEE MAYOCITE NECROSIS, IT MEANS THERE ARE DEAD HEART MUSCLE CELLS. >> DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE MYROCRITE NIGH CEO SIS TO CAUSE DEATH? >> NO. >> WOULD YOU SAY HIGH POX YA IS THE ABSENCE OF OXYGEN, AGREED? >> YES. AND CAN I HAD POX YA OF THE HEART CAUSE SUDDEN DEATH? >> UMM, IT MEANS LOW OXYGEN. SORRY. AND YOUR QUESTION IS CAN LOW OXYGEN TO THE HEART CAUSE SUDDEN DEATH FROM AN ARRHYTHMIA, I PRESUME, YES. >> HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WITHIN THE CONDUCTION SYSTEM OF THE HEART? >> THE WAY THE HEART BEATS, IS THAT THERE ARE ELECTRICAL CURRENTS THAT GO THROUGH THE HEART MUSCLE. NORMALLY THERE'S A CERTAIN SEQUENCE IN WHICH THE HEART MUSCLE OR MUSCLES WILL FIRE. THAT'S CALLED THE CONDUCTION SYSTEM FROM WHICH THE ELECTRICAL IMPULSES FLOW. THAT'S WHAT KEEP THE HEARTS BEATING IN A REGULAR RHYTHM. BE BEAT, BEAT, BEAT. YEAH. THAT'S THE CONDUCTION SYSTEM. >> SO WHAT HAPPENS IF THE CONDUCTION SYSTEM IS IMPAIRED? >> THEN YOU CAN GET WHAT IS CALLED AN ARRHYTHMIA OR ABNORMAL BEATING OF THE HEART. >> AND THAT CAN RESULT IN SUDDEN DEATH? >> IT CAN, YES. >> WHICH ARTERY IS SUPPLIES THAT KIND OF PACEMAKER OF THE HEART? >> OH, IT PROBABLY IS VARIABLE FROM PERSON TO PERSON. I THINK THAT CORONARY ARTERY THAT WE CONSIDER THE MOST IMPORTANT USUALLY IS THE LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING CORONARY ARTERY. THIS THERE'S A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL VARIABILITY. >> WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHT CORONARY ARTERY? >> UMM, THAT, I MEAN, IT JUST IT DEPENDS ON ANY GIVEN PERSON WHICH PART OF THE HEART IS SUPPLIED BY THEIR PARTICULAR DISTRIBUTION. >> OKAY. AND IN MR. FLOYD'S OFAUTOPSY, T RIGHT CORONARY ARTERY, DR. BAKER CONCLUDED A 90% DECOLLUSION? >> 90%, YES. >> WHEN SOMEONE IS EXERTING THEMSELVES, DOES THAT MAKE THEIR HEART WORK HARDER? >> YES. >> DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOUR BLOOD OXYGEN IT MEANS MORE BLOOD TO -- THE HEART NEEDS MORE BLOOD TO FUNCTION THAT THE TIME? >> YES. >> IT'S KIND OF LIKE WHEN WE THINK ABOUT EXERTING LIKE JOGGING, RUNNING, THE HEART NEEDS MORE BLOOD AND MORE OXYGEN IN ORDER TO FUNCTION PROPERLY, RIGHT? >> YES. >> YOU'VE ALSO DESCRIBED THE FIGHT OR FLIGHT KIND OF A PHYSIOLOGY OF THAT IN YOUR CONSIDERATION. >> YES. >> THE PHYSIOLOGICAL STRESS. >> UH-HUH. AND THE PHYSIOLOGICAL STRESS PRODUCES ADRENALINE, RIGHT? >> YES. >> IT ALSO CAUSES THE HEART TO WORK HARDER? >> YES. >> AND THEREFORE NEEDS MORE BLOOD? >> YES. >> AND MORE OXYGEN. >> YES. >> SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE HAVE A HEART THAT IS AT LEAST ABOVE AVERAGE, RIGHT. NEEDING MORE BLOOD. WE HAVE A HEART WITH A PRECLUDED CORONARY ARTERY. >> NARROWED. >> RIGHT. WE HAVE A HEART THAT THE LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING ARTERY ALSO HAD A 75% NARROWING, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND SO YOU HAVE -- AND THEN YOU HAVE AN EXVERSION OF STRESS. >> YES. >> SO THE HEART HAS TO WORK VERY HARD. >> LET'S TAKE POLICE OUT OF THIS HYPOTHETICAL. MR. FLOYD DIED IN HIS RESIDENCE, NO POLICE INVOLVEMENT, NO DRUGS. >> RIGHT. >> THE ONLY THING YOU FOUND WOULD BE THESE FACTS ABOUT HIS HEART. WHAT WOULD YOU CONCLUDE TO BE THE CAUSE OF DEATH? >> IN THAT VERY NARROW SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, I WOULD PROBABLY CONCLUDE THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS HIS HEART DISEASE. >> SO HAVE YOU, AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, EVER CERTIFIED A DEATH ARE THOROUGH ROW COLOR ROTTIC CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE? >> PROBABLY THOUSANDS OF TIME, YES. >> SIMILAR DEGREES OF NARROWING WITH THE ARTERIES? >> YES. >> HAVE YOU EVER CERTIFIED A DEATH A HYPERTENSIVE CARDIO -- I'M TRYING TO -- >> YES. HYPERTEN HYPERTENSIVE CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE, EXACTLY. >> WITH A HEART AT THIS WEIGHT OR EVEN SMALLER? >> WELL, IF IT WAS, AGAIN, IN THIS SETTING WHERE THAT WAS THE ONLY ABNORMAL FINDING, UMM, THEN I WOULD PROBABLY GO WITH THAT, YES. >> SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS MR. FLOYD'S HEART, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND EVEN WITHOUT ANY SORT OF AN EXVERSION, TAKE THE EXVERSION OUT OF IT, THE POLICE OUT OF IT, THE DRUG OUT OF IT, IT'S A POTENTIAL CAUSE OF DEATH THAT NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED? >> YES. ON HIS FACE, YES. ON HIS SHOULDER, YES. AND HE HAD THE ABRASIONS ON HIS RIGHT HANDS. >> EVEN IN TERMS OF THE PATTERN OF THE ABRASION, IT'S UP-AND-DOWN -- LIKE, AN ABRASION TO GO FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE BODY UP OR FROM LEFT TO RIGHT, RIGHT? >> YES. I GUESS I DIDN'T REALLY FOCUS ON WHAT DIRECTION THE ABRASIONS WERE GOING IN THAT SENSE. >> OKAY. AND THAT'S FINE. YOU WOULD AGREE THAT ONE POSSIBLE WAY THAT SOME -- AT LEAST SOME OF THESE ABRASIONS OCCURRED WHEN MR. FLOYD WAS INITIALLY PUT DOWN ON THE GROUND? >> I GUESS THEY COULD, YES. >> OKAY. AND NOT ALL OF THOSE ABRASIONS NECESSARILY OCCURRED WHILE MR. FLOYD WAS IN THE POSITION, RIGHT? ? >> THAT'S HARD TO ANSWER. >> IT'S HARD TO ANSWER WHEN THE ABRASIONS WERE THERE OR WHAT CAUSED THE ABRASIONS, RIGHT. >> RIGHT. >> IF SOMEONE WAS BEING HELD DOWN WITH THE WEIGHT OF THREE PEOPLE, WOULD YOU EXPECT THOSE TO BE MORE PUN TILE IN THEIR NATURE? >> OH, GOSH. THERE'S TOO MANY VASHL VARIABLES THERE. >> YOU DETERMINED THIS WAS ASPHYXIATION? >> YES. THAT WAS THE PRIMARY. >> AND THAT'S THE LACK OF OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN? >> INADEQUATE OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN. >> INADEQUATE OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN SPECIFICALLY. >> YES. THERE ARE MULTIPLE THINGS THAT CAN CAUSE ASPHYXIATION. SO YOU USE THE REFERENCE TO SOMEONE BEING STRANGLED, RIGHT. >> IF I CAME UP AND STRANGLED AND STRANGLED YOU OR A PERSON WITH MY HANDS AROUND THEIR NECK, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE, RIGHT? >> SOMETIMES YOU DO, YES. >> THOSE ARE THINGS LIKE A BROKEN BONE. >> IT DEPENDS ON THE MECHANISM ASPHYXIA. >> LET'S GO BACK TO THE MECHANISMS OF ASPHYXIA. THEY DESCRIBE STRANGLING WOULD BE ONE. >> YES. >> HANGING COULD BE ONE. >> YES. >> YOU DESCRIBE MECHANICAL ASPHYXIA. POSITIONAL BEING THE POSITION ON THE BODY. MECHANICAL BEING SOMETHING, LOSING SOME SORT OF DEVICE TO ASPHYXIATE SOMEONE? >> OH, WELL, WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT POSITIONAL AND MECHANICAL. I MEAN, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS UNDER BOTH OF THOSE THAT CAN CAUSE LOW OX -- OXYGEN. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN CAUSE LOW OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN IS USE OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, CORRECT? >> WELL, EVENTUALLY, YES. YES. >> SO SOMEONE CAN INGEST A PARTICULAR TYPE OF A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE, THAT PARTICULAR SUBSTANCE COULD EFFECT THE DIAPHRAGM? >> IT AFFECTS -- SOME CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES AFFECT THE ABILITY TO BREATHE, WHICH THEN DECREASES THE OXYGEN, WHICH THEN LEADS TO LOW OXYGEN, YES. >> RIGHT. AND THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THERE IS, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, AS I UNDERSTAND IN YOUR NUANCES, THAT ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS SOME EVENT THAT HAPPENED THAT RESULTED IN A DECREASE OF OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN AND THAT RESULTED IN DEATH? >> YES. >> AND THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT ASPHYXIA IS? >> INADEQUATE OXYGEN, YES. >> GREAT. THANK YOU. AND YOU WERE ASKED A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME STUDIES IN TERMS OF I THINK THEY'RE CALLED THE SAN DIEGO -- >> YES. >> YEAH. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE JOURNAL OF "FORENSIC AND LEGAL MEDICINE." >> YES. >> YOU TESTIFIED THAT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE CHAN STUDIES THEY WERE IN LABORATORY SETTINGS. SORRY. LABORATORY SETTINGS. THEY WERE CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS. HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS, ET. CETERA. RIGHT? >> YES. >> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE WORK OF DR. CHRISTINE HALL AND HER PAPER "INCIDENTS AND OUTCOME OF PRONE POSITIONING FOLLOWING POLICE USE OF FORCE IN A PERSPECTIVE, CONSECUTIVE COHORT OF SUBJECTS." >> IS THAT THE ONE FROM CANADA? >> YES. >> YES. >> AND THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY AN ANALYSIS OF ACTUAL POLICE ENCOUNTERS, CORRECT? >> YES. IN CANADA. >> IN CANADA. BUT THEY ACTUALLY -- BUT THAT STUDY THEY GO THROUGH AND LOOK AT A NUMBER OF POLICE/CITIZENS INTERACTIONS, CORRECT? >> YES. >> AND FROM THOSE POLICE/CITIZENS INTERACTIONS, THEY FURTHER GO IN TO LOOK AT HOW MANY INVOLVED ARE PLACED IN THE PRONE POSITION OR NONPRONE POSITION, CORRECT? >> YES. >> THEY CONSIDER VARIOUS ACTUAL REAL LIFE VARIABLES, AGREED. >> YEAH. >> AND INCLUDING DRUGS, WHETHER DRUGS WERE ON BOARD, WHETHER THE LENGTH OF TIME, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, SOMEONE WAS IN A PRONE POSITION, AGREED? >> YES. >> AND ULTIMATELY THEY ANALYZED ABOUT 3,000 PRONE POSITIONAL PLACEMENTS? YES. >> OUT OF A TOTAL OF, LIKE, 1.1 MILLION POLICE INTERACTIONS. >> YES. >> SO 1.1 MILLION POLICE INTERACTIONS RESULTING IN ABOUT 3,000 PRONE POSITION ARRESTS. THERE WAS PRONE -- THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE, REAL INCIDENTS, RIGHT? >> YEAH. >> AND IN THOSE 3,000 OR SO INTERACTIONS, THERE WERE NO DEATHS THAT OCCURRED? >> ISN'T THAT AMAZING? WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT VIRTUALLY EVERY FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST IN THE UNITED STATES HAS PROBABLY HAD AN OFFICER-INVOLVED DEATH LIKE THIS. HOW DID THEY -- IT UTTERLY BAFFLES ME. I KEPT SAYING CANADA. I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS DIFFERENT -- >> I'M GOING TO OBJECT. [ INAUDIBLE ] >> SO THE CAN YOU DESCRIBE HIGH POX YA? >> LOW OXYGEN. >> WHICH ORGAN IS MORE SENSITIVE TO THE LACK OF OXYGEN? THE BRAIN? >> THE BRAIN. >> THE BRAIN IS THE MOST -- NEEDS TMOST OXYGEN, RIGHT? >> YES. >> IT'S DOING MILLIONS OF THINGS SIMULTANEOUSLY, RIGHT? >> MET BOTICALLY. >> I THINK A PREVIOUS WITNESS TESTIFIED IT TAKES ABOUT 20% OF THE BODY'S OXYGEN SUPPLY TO FUNCTION, RIGHT? >> THAT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT, YES. >> THE HEART ALSO NEEDS OXYGEN, RIGHT? >> YES. >> IN TERMS OF THE PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS FOR DETERMINING ASPHYXIA DEATH, IS IT TRUE THAT YOU HAVE TO FIRST EXCLUDE ALL NATURAL AND NONNATURAL CASES OR CAUSES OF DEATH? ? >> WELL, YOU CAN HAVE NATURAL AND UNNATURAL CAUSES OF LOW OXYGEN -- I'M SORRY, I GUESS I DON'T UNDERSTAND. >> SURE. THERE'S A CRITERIA THAT IS ESTABLISHED FOR MAKING A DETERMINATION OF POSITIONAL ASPHYXIA AS A CAUSE OF DEATH, RIGHT? >> UMM, WELL -- I'M NOT REALLY SURE. I'M SORRY. I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. >> FAIR ENOUGH. >> IS THE PRONE POSITION OF ITSELF INHERENTLY DANGEROUS? >> NOT IF THERE ARE NO OTHER FACTORS. >> OKAY. >> SO THE CROWN POSITION IS EXAMINED AND USED IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT SETTINGS, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. >> IN HOSPITALS, IN THE TREATMENT OF, SAY, COVID, THE PRONE POSITION IS USED. >> CORRECT. >> AND IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, BEING IN A PRONE POSITION IS NOT INHERENTLY DANGEROUS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> I MEAN, THE CHIROPRACTOR USES A PRONE POSITION, RIGHT? >> YES. >> MASSAGE THERAPIST PUTS PEOPLE IN A PRONE POSITION, RIGHT? >> YES. >> SO GENERALLY SPEAKING NO OTHER FACTORS, THE PRONE POSITION IN OF ITSELF IS NOT INHERENTLY DANGEROUS, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> IS THE PRONE POSITION ON CONCRETE INHERENTLY DANGEROUS? >> AGAIN, WITH NO OTHER FACTORS, AS LONG AS SOMEONE CAN BREATHE, NO. >> RIGHT. I COULD BE LAYING BY THE POOL IN FLORIDA, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> ON MY STOMACH IN A PRONE POSITION NOT INHERENTLY DANGEROUS. >> RIGHT. >> DO YOU KNOW OR DID YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION MR. FLOYD'S WEIGHT IN YOUR ANALYSIS? >> OH, I'M AWARE OF HIS WEIGHT. I WOULD SAY I TOOK IT INTO SOME CONSIDERATION BUT IT WASN'T A MAJOR FACTOR ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. >> OKAY. >> AND YOU RECEIVED ALL THE VIDEOS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT PORTIONS OF HIS WEIGHT WERE PLACED ON MR. FLOYD'S BODY AT A DIFFERENT DISTRIBUTION? >> YES. >> AND ULTIMATELY IN TERMS OF THE AUTOPSY DR. BAKER CONDUCTED, IN TERMS OF THE AREA IN THE SHOULDERS, THE BACK, AND THE NECK, NO BRUISING WAS FOUND, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> IN YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, IF SOMEONE IS PLACING A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF WEIGHT ON A PERSON'S AREA FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME, WOULD YOU EXPECT TO SEE BRUISING? >> YOU MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT. IT'S SO VARIABLE. YOU WOULD AGREE THERE ARE NO ABRASIONS OR BRUISING DESCRIBED IN THE AUTOPSY IN THE NECK AREA OF MR. FLOYD? >> CORRECT. >> THERE'S NO BLEEDING INTO THE MUSCLES IN HIS BACK? >> CORRECT. >> YOU WOULD AGREE THE KNEE IS SORT OF POINTY OR MORE P PROTRIBUNE I CAN'T PART OF THE BODY? >> I GUESS SO. KIND OF FLAT ON TOP. >> OKAY. >> AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE SHIN, THE SHINBONE, THE SHINBONE ITSELF THERE'S NOT A LOT IN BETWEEN THE SKIN AND THE SHINBONE, TRUE? >> THAT'S TRUE. >> IT'S SORT OF A TRIANGULAR SHAPE, RIGHT? >> YES. ALONG MR. FLOYD'S BACK THERE'S A BRUISE CONSISTENT WITH A SHINBONE. >> AND A MORE CIRCULAR BRUISE CONSISTENT WITH A KNEECAP? >> RIGHT. >> YOU'VE REVIEWED A LOT OF STRANGULATION-TYPE CASES. I DID NOTICE IN YOUR CAREER. >> HAND? >> PRIMARILY BUT ALSO LIGATURE. >> LIGATURE BEING A ROPE OR A CORD OR SOMETHING? >> EXACTLY. >> IN THOSE MANUAL STRANGULATION CASES, THE PRESSURE THAT IS EXERTED IN BACK MORE FREQUENTLY LEAVE BRUISES, FINGERPRINT SIZED BRUISES. >> FREQUENTLY BUT NOT ALWAYS. IT INCREASES THE OF LIKELIHOOD OF SEEING A BRUISE IS THE AMOUNT OF FORCE APPLIED, RIGHT? >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL THE FACTORS ARE. WHETHER IT'S THE LENGTH OF TIME, THE FORCE, THE LOCATION. I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF VARIABLES. >> IT MAY DEPEND ON THE MEDICATIONS. >> RIGHT. >> YESTERDAY THERE WAS AN ANALOGY TO SITTING ON A CHURCH BENCH AND YOU DON'T BRUISE YOUR BEHIND. WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT IF YOU WERE SITTING 0EN A CHURCH BENCH WITH A BASEBALL UNDERNEATH YOUR BUTT? >> I REALLY COULDN'T SAY. >> SO IN TERMS OF DR. BAKER'S AUTOPSY, YOU WOULD AGREE THERE'S REALLY NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE SHOWING ANY PRESSURE TO THE BACK OF MR. FLOYD? >> THERE IS NOTHING AT THE AUTOPSY. >> DID THEY PROVIDE HYPOXIC CHANGES IN HIS BRAIN? >> HE DIED TOO QUICKLY FOR THAT TO SHOW UP. >> AND THAT'S WHEN WE TALK ABOUT LACK OF -- HYPOXIA, CORRECT? DR. BAKER NOTED A LACK OF HYPOXIA. >> I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. YOU'RE DESCRIBING LACK OF CHANGES IN THE NEURORONS? CORRECT. >> YES. YES, THAT HAS TO HAPPEN OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. >> OKAY. THAT LACK OF OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN, THAT WILL LEAD TO CERTAIN SYMPTOMS, CORRECT? >> CONFUSION IS ONE. >> RIGHT. >> YES. >> RESTLESSNESS? >> COULD BE, YES. >> SHORTNESS OF BREATH? >> COULD BE. VISUAL CHANGES? >> IT COULD BE. >> INCOHERENT SPEAKING? >> IT COULD BE. SO, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DID MR. FLOYD, IN THE VIDEOS THAT YOU OBSERVED, WERE COMPLAIN OF THESE VISUAL CHANGES? >> NO. >> DID HE APPEAR TO BE CONFUSED TO YOU? >> WHAT TIME FRAME ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? >> SURE. THAT HELPS IF WE NARROW IT DOWN. IN THE NINE MINUTES, DURING THE NINE MINUTES MR. FLOYD WAS RESTRAINED, DID HE APPEAR CONFUSIONED? >> OH, GOSH. HOW DO YOU DESCRIBE HIS BEHAVIOR? >> WELL, I MEAN, DID HE -- HE WAS ARTICULATING THAT HE WAS IN PAIN, RIGHT? >> YES. AND HE COULDN'T BREATHE AND HE CALLS FOR HIS MOTHER AND I HE SS HE LOVE PEOPLE. YOU MIGHT INTERPRET IT AS CONFUSION OR YOU MIGHT INTERPRET IT A DIFFERENT WAY. >> DID HE APPEAR TO BE BREATHING DURING THIS TIME FRAME? >> NOT EFFECTIVELY. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY BREATHS PER MINUTE? >> NO. >> IF ONE EXPERT INDICATED IT WAS READ OF 22 BREATHS PER MINUTE -- WOULD YOU DEGREE -- DISAGREE. >> I WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF ASSESSING THAT. >> WHEN SOMEONE IS HYPOXIC, THEY START BREATHING FASTER, RIGHT? >> THAT CAN BE A MECHANISM, UH-HUH, OF TRYING. >> AND FOR THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES OR SO, MR. FLOYD WAS TALKING, CORRECT? >> WELL, AGAIN -- >> TALKING YES OR NO HE WAS TALKING? >> YES. THERE WERE WORDS, YES. >> SO HE HAD AN OPEN AIRWAY? >> YES. >> CAN YOU AGREE THAT -- WOULD YOU AGREE THAT AT SOME POINT HE WENT LIMP? >> YES. >> AND WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU SAW AS THE PROGRESSION OF HYPOXIA IN THAT INSTANCE AT THE POINT HE GOES LIMP? >> THAT IS CERTAINLY A GOOD EXPLANATION FOR IT, YES. >> IT WAS NOT A SUDDEN HYPOXIC EVENT, CORRECT? >> THAT IS MY INTERPRETATION, YES. >> YOU WOULD AGREE IF HE WAS PROGRESSIVELY GROWING HYPOXIC, YOU WOULD EXPECT WHOLE BODY HYPOXIA? I'LL REPHRASE -- >> YES, SORRY. >> I'M NOT A DOCTOR, SO I HAVE TO RELY ON MY NOTES QUITE A BIT. SO HE WAS PROGRESSIVELY SUFFERING FROM WHOLE BODY HYPOXIA, THE BRAIN WOULD BE THE FIRST THING THAT WOULD HAVE SHOWED SIGNS OF HYPOXIA. >> OH, I SEE. YES, THE BRAIN IS THE MOST SENSITIVE. >> AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT WOULD NOT OCCUR IN A MATTER OF SECONDS BUT A MATTER OF MINUTES, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. AND ASPHYXIA DUE TO POSITION OR COMPRESSION THAT PREVENTS AIR FROM GETS INTO THE LUNGS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND THAT LEADS TO WHAT WE WOULD CALL A GLOBAL HYPOXIA? >> UMM -- I'VE NEVER REALLY USED THAT WORD GLOBAL. >> WHOLE BODY? >> I MEAN, IF THERE'S INADEQUATE OXYGEN, THE BLOOD FLOWS EVERYWHERE. SO I GUESS THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. >> BUT THE BRAIN IS THE FIRST THING TO SHOW SYMPTOMS? >> RIGHT. THAT'S THE MOST SENSITIVE PART. >> RIGHT. >> AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WHEN YOU HAVE A 90% STENOSIS OF THE RIGHT CORONARY ARTERY, IT'S GOING TO BE LIMITING OXYGEN TO THE HEART, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND HE HAS BIG HEART, RIGHT? >> YES. >> NEEDS MORE BLOOD. >> YES. >> AND ADRENALINE SPEEDS UP THE HEART? >> YES. >> METHAMPHETAMINE SPEEDS UP THE HEART? >> IT CAN, YES. >> SO METHAMPHETAMINE AND ADRENALINE CAUSED THE HEART TO WORK HARDER? >> YES. >> AND INCREASES THE HEART'S OXYGEN NEEDS? >> YES. >> AT WHAT POINT DOES THE STENOSIS IN THE LEFT AND RIGHT CORONARY ARTERIES BECOME CRITICAL AND CAUSE THE HEART TO STOP? IN GENERAL? >> OH. AS OF -- ARE YOU ASKING THE SECOND QUESTION ABOUT AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST WHAT DEGREE OF NARROWING DO WE CONSIDER POTENTIALLY FATAL? >> RIGHT. >> 70 OR 75% AND ABOVE. >> NOW IN TERMS OF DRUG USE, OKAY, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE AWARE BASED ON THE TOXICOLOGY THAT MR. FLOYD HAD CERTAIN DRUGS IN HIS SYSTEM, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND SO WHEN WE SAY ON BOARD, IT MEANS IN THE SYSTEM? >> YES. >> OKAY. WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE -- AS YOU KNOW BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE AS SOME SORT OF BINGE USE OF DRUGS? >> OH, I GUESS I COULDN'T ANSWER THAT. >> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH DRUG USE TAKEN OR USED INDIRECTLY -- >> I'VE HEARD OF THAT, YES. >> IT INCREASES OR SPEEDS UP THE DISTRIBUTION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES IN A PERSON? >> UMM, IT SPEEDS UP ABSORPTION, YES. >> SO THE EFFECTS WOULD BE FELT MUCH FASTER? >> YES. >> IN A CASE WHERE YOU HAVE A PERSON WHO IS EXPERIENCING CARDIAC ARREST, RIGHT. THEY'RE PUT IN A AMBULANCE AND TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL FOR RESUSCITATION, OFTEN THERE ARE IVs PLACED IN A PERSON, RIGHT. >> IS YES. >> AND IT CONTAINS DILUTE OR DECREASE TO SOME DEGREE THE AMOUNT OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES AS THEY WOULD BE MEASURED? >> THAT'S A THEORETICAL POSSIBILITY. >> YOU'D AGREE THAT FENTANYL IS A RESPIRATORY DEPRESSANT, RIGHT? >> YES. >> IT SLOWS BREATHING AND LOWERS OXYGEN IN THE BLOOD? >> IT -- YES. >> DOES THE FACT THAT THERE'S NORFENTANYL IN HIS BLOOD MEAN THAT HE TOOK IT SOME TIME AGO? >> YES. BUT BY S"SOME TIME" THAT'S A VEY VAGUE -- YEAH. >> LONG ENOUGH IN THE PAST TO START METABOLIZING. >> EXACTLY. EXACTLY. >> BUT DOES IT EXCLUDE HIM TAKING FENTANYL NOR ACUTELY OR MORE RECENTLY IN TIME? >> NO. THERE'S NO WAY REALLY OF KNOWING THE TIMING. >> FENTANYL DEPRESSING THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM CAN ALSO ACT WITH THE CORONARY ARTERY -- COULD INTERACT WITH CORONARY VESSEL DISEASE, CORRECT? >> CAN YOU CLARIFY THAT? I'M SORRY. >> DOES FENTANYL'S DEPRESSION OF THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM ALSO ACT WITH CORONARY ARTERY VESSEL DISEASE AND OXYGEN AND CARBON DIOXIDE TO REDUCE THE SUPPLY OF -- ITS SUPPLY TO THE HEART? >> OH, SO AS FENTANYL MAY LEAD TO A GRADUAL PROGRESSION OF SLOWING BREATHING AND ULTIMATELY DECREASE THE OXYGEN, THAT WOULD APPLY TO OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN AS WELL AS TO THE HEART. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE -- YEAH. >> AND IT WOULD LIKE WISE INCREASE THE CARBON DIOXIDE IN THE BLOOD? >> YEAH, I MEAN, ANYTHING THAT DECREASES RESPIRATION DECREASES THAT EXCHANGE. >> RIGHT. SO AS THAT EXCHANGE PROCESS IS HAPPENING, RIGHT, YOU'RE NOT TAKING IN THE OXYGEN. YOU'RE LIKE WISE NOT EXPELLING THE CARBON DIOXIDE, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. AND THUS THE CARBON DIOXIDE WILL INCREASE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT EXPELLING IT, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. >> YOU'D AGREE THAT METHAMPHETAMINE IS A STIMULANT, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. >> AND THAT CAN CAUSE A CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIA? >> IT CAN. >> AND IT CAN INCREASE A PERP'S HEART RATE, RIGHT? >> IT CAN OR NOT. >> AND YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE THAT METHAMPHETAMINE, THERE'S NO SAFE LEVEL OF METHAMPHETAMINE, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. >> SO THE FACT THAT METHAMPHETAMINE IS AT A LOWER T TOXICOLOGICAL STANDARD DOESN'T SOMEHOW MAKE IT SAFE? >> RIGHT. >> IT DOESN'T EXCLUDE THE POSSIBILITY THAT IT COULD INCREASE THE HEART RATE? >> IT COULD OR -- >> THE -- IN TERMS OF THE EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE, WERE YOU MADE AWARE THAT DRUGS WERE FOUND IN THE BACKSEAT OF THE SQUAD CAR? >> YES. >> AND THAT THOSE DRUGS CONTAINED THE DNA OF MR. FLOYD? >> YES. >> AND THAT THOSE DRUGS WERE AT LEAST TO SOME DEGREE, PARTIALLY DISSOLVED? >> YES. >> AND THAT THOSE DRUGS WERE FENTANYL, A MIXTURE OF FENTANYL AND METHAMPHETAMINE? YES. >> BASED ON THE TOXICOLOGY IN THIS CASE, DID YOU SEE ANY METABOLIC BY-PRODUCT OF METHAMPHETAMINE? >> NO. >> AND SO THAT MEANS THAT THE METHAMPHETAMINE WAS TAKEN MORE ACUTELY OR RECENTLY IN TIME? >> PROBABLY. I MEAN, THERE'S LOTS OF VARIABLES. >> SO AGAIN, JUST KIND OF TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION REMOVING CERTAIN VARIABLES, RIGHT, YOU FIND A PERSON AT HOME, NO ST STRUGGLE WITH THE POLICE, RIGHT, AND YOU -- THE PERSON DOESN'T HAVE A HEART PROBLEM BUT YOU FIND FENTANYL AND METHAMPHETAMINE IN THIS PERSON'S SYSTEM AT THE LEVELS THAT THEY ARE AT, WOULD YOU CERTIFY THIS AS AN OVERDOSE? >> AGAIN, IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY OF THESE OTHER REALITIES, YES, I COULD CONSIDER THAT TO BE AN OVERDOSE. >> AND THE LEVEL OF FENTANYL IN A PERSON, AGAIN, IN THIS HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO, THERE ARE DEATHS CERTIFIED AS DRUG OVERDOSES SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN 11 NANOGRAMS PER MILLILITER. >> LOWER, HIGHER, IT'S GOT A HUGE RANGE, YES. >> AS LOW, I BELIEVE, AS 3% OR 3 NANOGRAMS PER MILLILITER? >> YES. >> ALL RIGHT. SO THE INGESTION OF DRUGS IS UNIQUE TO THAT INDIVIDUAL'S BODY, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. . >> YOUR HONOR,>> YOUR HONOR, I R QUESTIONS. >> DR. THOMAS, A FEW THINGS I'D LIKE TO TRY TO CLARIFY WITH YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> YOU WERE ASKED A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS THAT WERE TO THE EFFECT THAT IF WE TAKE THE POLICE SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION OUT OF THIS, WHAT WOULD YOU CONCLUDE MR. FLOYD'S CAUSE OF DEATH TO BE? REMEMBER THOSE QUESTIONS? >> OH, YES. >> AREN'T THOSE QUESTIONS A LOT LIKE ASKING MRS. LINCOLN, IF WE TAKE JOHN WILKES BOOTH OUT OF THIS -- >> OBJECTION. >> SUSTAINED. >> DR. THOMAS, IF WE PUT THE POLICE SUBDUAL COMPRESSION AND NECK COMPRESSION INTO THIS RESTRAINT AND NECCOMPRESSION IN THIS, WHAT WAS THE CAUSE, THE MANNER OF DEATH FOR MR. GEORGE FLOYD? >> THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL CONSTRAINT AND COMPRESSION, AND THE MANNER OF DEATH IS HOMICIDE. >> DOES IT MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU WHATSOEVER FROM THE STANDPOINT OF TRYING TO ASSESS CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH FOR MR. FLOYD TO BE ANSWERING QUESTIONS HAVING TO DO WITH HYPOTHETICALLY TAKING THE FACTS OF THIS CASE OUT RELATING TO HIS SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION. >> ARGUMENTATIVE. >> YOU CAN FINISH THE QUESTION. >> DR. THOMAS, FROM YOUR STANDPOINT AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST AND YOUR ANALYSIS ON MANNER AND CAUSE OF DEATH, WOULD YOU EVER APPROACH AN ASSESSMENT, A MANNER AND CAUSE OF DEATH BY TAKING OUT OF IT THE FACTS THAT YOU FOUND RELEVANT AND HIGHLY PERTINENT TO ASSESSING AND DETERMINING THE MANNER AND CAUSE OF DEATH? >> NO. >> AND IN THIS CASE, THOSE FACTORS ARE WHAT? >> THE LAW ENFORCEMENT'S SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT AND COMPRESSION. >> AND YOU WERE ASKED QUESTIONS, AGAIN, ABOUT FENTANYL AND METH. REMEMBER THOSE QUESTIONS? >> YES. >> DO YOU KNOW WHAT QUANTITY OF METH WAS EVEN INVOLVED OR FOUND IN MR. FLOYD'S BLOODSTREAM? >> I HAVE THE NUMBER -- >> WELL, LET ME ASK IT -- >> BUT IT WAS LOW. I DO KNOW THAT. >> SO THIS WAS THE POINT, YOU FOUND IT WAS A VERY SMALL AMOUNT? >> CORRECT. >> WERE YOU ABLE TO ASSESS BASED ON THE AMOUNT WHAT KIND OF EFFECT, IF AT ALL, IT WOULD HAVE ON THE STRESS OR STRAIN ON HIS HEART? >> NO, THERE'S TOO MUCH INDIVIDUAL VARIABILITY TO CORRELATE ONE NUMBER WITH ONE PERSON'S REACTION. >> WELL, LET'S SEE WITH RESPECT TO FENTANYL IF THERE'S A PUNCH LINE WE CAN GET TO WITH RESPECT TO FENTANYL. FENTANYL HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH YOU, DR. THOMAS, AS A RESPIRATORY EITHER DEPRESSANT OR SUP SUP SUPPRESSANT? >> YES. >> IN ORDER FOR US TO GO FROM FENTANYL TO DEATH, IN THE MIDDLE THERE ARE CERTAIN SYMPTOMS AND RESPONSES AND REACTIONS A PERSON WOULD HAVE WHO'S SUFFERING FROM FENTANYL OVERDOSE OR INTOX INTOXICATION? >> YES. IF THE PERSON DOESN'T HAVE THOSE SYMPTOMS, THOSE INDICATORS, THEN WOULD YOU FEEL THAT IT'S POSSIBLE EVEN TO CONCLUDE THAT THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM FENTANYL INTOXICATION OR OVERDOSE? >> NO. IF THERE'S NO SIGNS OF FENTANYL OVERDOSE, THEN IT MAKES NO SENSE TO CONCLUDE THAT THERE WAS AN OVERDOSE FROM FENTANYL. >> AND TO BE CLEAR FOR THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY, WHAT ARE THOSE SYMPTOMS OF FENTANYL OVERDOSE OR INTOXICATION? >> SO FENTANYL IS AN OPIOID. IT'S LIKE MORPHINE OR HEROIN, AND IT CAUSES SLOWING -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S A POTENT PAIN MEDICATION AND GIVEN MOSTLY FOR THAT, BUT IT ALSO CAN CAUSE SLOWING OF THE RESPIRATORY RATE IN A VERY GRADUAL, PEACEFUL, NONSTRUGGLE KIND OF WAY. WHAT IS DESCRIBED AS PEOPLE JUST FALL ASLEEP AND MAY JUST KIND OF SLUMP GRADUALLY OVER BECAUSE THEY VERY PEACEFULLY STOP BREATHING, OR IT SLOWS AND THEN EVENTUALLY STOPS. >> AND THEY FALL INTO A SLEEP OUT OF WHICH THEY CAN'T EVEN BE AROUSED? >> CORRECT. >> WOULD THAT BE ALSO KNOWN AS A COMA? >> YES. ULT ULTIMATELY, IT'S A COMA. >> WHEN GEORGE FLOYD WAS ON THE GROUND FOR THE 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS, WAS HE ASLEEP TO THE POINT OF NOT BEING ABLE TO BE AROUSED? >> NOT FOR THE FIRST HALF OF IT, NO. AND THEN AFTERWARDS HE WAS COMPLETELY UNRESPONSIVE, BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT -- >> FOR THE SECOND HALF HE WAS UNRESPONSIVE WITH NO PULSE? >> EXACTLY. >> WAS GEORGE FLOYD DURING THE 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS EVER IN A COMA THAT YOU SAW? >> NO. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FENTANYL OVERDOSE, DID YOU EVER SEE AS APPLIED TO GEORGE FLOYD DURING THE 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS -- >> OBJECTION. >> DID YOU EVER SEE AS IT RELATES TO FENTANYL OVERDOSE DURING THE 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS THAT HE WAS ON THE GROUND AND DURING THE SUBDUAL AND RESTRAINT BY MR. CHAUVIN THAT HE EVER EXHIBITED ANY OF THE SYMPTOMS OF FENTANYL INTOX INTOXICATION? >> NO. >> YOU WERE ASKED, AGAIN, QUITE A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THE HEART, AND REMEMBER THAT DISCUSSION? >> YES. I THINK IT WAS TO THE EFFECT THE HEART WAS SLIGHTLY ENLARGED, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, NARROWING OF THE CORONARY ARTERIES, DEAD HEART MUSCLE CELLS. DO YOU RECALL ALL OF THAT BEING DISCUSSED? >> YES. >> IN ORDER FOR US TO GO FROM THERE BEING ISSUES WITH DAMAGE TO THE HEART TO A DEATH FROM DAMAGE TO THE HEART, IN THE MIDDLE, DO WE HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN CARDIAC EVENTS THAT THEN LEAD TO DEATH? >> YES. >> WOULD YOU TELL THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURIES THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT HEART CONDITIONS, WHAT ARE THOSE EVENTS IN THE MIDDLE THAT ULTIMATELY LEAD TO DEATH? >> WHAT ULTIMATELY LEADS TO DEATH IS AN ARRHYTHMIA, AN ABNORMAL BEATING OF THE HEART. AND AS I DESCRIBED, IT'S GENERALLY A -- CALLED -- I MEAN, IT'S OFTEN CALLED A SUDDEN CARDIAC ARREST BECAUSE IT'S SUDDEN AND SOMEONE JUST DROPS OVER. >> NOW, TO BE CLEAR, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE VARIOUS HEART CONDITIONS AND A SUDDEN CARDIAC ARREST, FATAL ARRHYTHMIA, DID YOU SEE ANY INDICATION IN ALL THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT HEART CONDITIONS THAT MR. FLOYD EVER SUFFERED FROM A SUDDEN FATAL CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIA AS THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH? >> NO. >> DID -- WAS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT MR. FLOYD SUFFERED FROM A HEART ATTACK? >> NO. >> IF YOU BRING TO MIND WHAT WAS FOUND DURING THE AUTOPSY, WAS THERE ANY INJURY FOUND TO MR. FLOYD'S HEART WHATSOEVER? >> NO. SO IF WE TALK ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, DEAD HEART MUSCLE CELLS, ANY DEAD HEART MUSCLE CELLS SEEN ON AUTOPSY? >> NOT THAT DR. BAKER DESCRIBED AND NOT THAT I SAW, NO. >> IN FACT, HIS HEART WAS SO ORDINARY IN TERMS OF NON-INJURY THAT IT WASN'T EVEN PHOTOGRAPHED INTACT, WAS IT? >> NOT INTACT, NO, DR. BAKER TOOK ONE PHOTO THAT SHOWED NO SCARS AND NO ACUTE INJURY. >> NOW, YOU WERE ASKED ABOUT CERTAIN STUDIES OUT OF CANADA. >> YES. >> ON THE PRONE POSITION. >> YES. AND THE FINDINGS OUT OF CANADA SUPPOSEDLY WITH REAL POLICE AND REAL POLICE SETTINGS WAS NO FATALITIES. >> YES. >> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ANY SUCH STUDIES REACHING THAT CONCLUSION IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? >> NO. >> WHAT IS SO PECULIAR ABDOOUT CANADA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CANADIAN STUDIES HERE? >> THAT'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I DON'T -- YEAH, I FOUND THAT STUDY AND I JUST THOUGHT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO INTERPRET THIS BECAUSE IT JUST -- IT'S SO CONTRARY TO THE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE OF FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS IN THE UNITED ST STATES. >> YOU KNOW, YOU WERE ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE PRONE POSITION IS SAFE TO LAY ON YOUR STOMACH. >> YES. >> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHETHER OR NOT LAYING IN THE PRONE POSITION AUTOMATICALLY BRINGS ABOUT A REDUCTION IN THE OXYGEN RESERVES SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 20 TO 24%? >> I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT, BUT I WOULD DEFER TO A CLINICIAN. >> PERHAPS A PULMONOLOGIST? >> THAT WOULD BE THE BEST, YES. >> I THINK YOU WERE, IN FACT, ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT LAYING BY THE POOL ON MY STOMACH IN FLORIDA. >> YES. >> GEORGE FLOYD WAS NOT LAYING BY THE POOL ON HIS STOMACH IN FLORIDA, WAS HE? >> NO. . >> I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS, BUT I'LL ASK YOU. YOU WERE ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT SITTING ON A CHURCH BENCH WITH A BASEBALL UNDER YOUR BUTT. YOU'VE NEVER DONE THAT? >> NO. >> NOW, YOU WERE ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT SYMPTOMS OF DAMAGE TO THE BRAIN. >> YES. >> AND WHETHER THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE OF DAMAGE TO MR. FLOYD'S BRAIN. >> YES. >> WILL YOU TELL THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY WHETHER THE FACT THAT YOU OBSERVED AN ANOXIC SEIZURE IN MR. FLOYD WAS EVIDENCE OF DAMAGE TO THE BRAIN? >> SO YES, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BRAIN IS WHEN THERE'S INADEQUATE OXYGEN, IT REACTS BY CAUSING THIS ANOXIC REACTION OR SEIZURE THAT WE'VE DESCRIBED. IF SOMEONE THEN GOES ON AND ESSENTIALLY IS BRAIN DEAD BUT THEIR HEART CAN BE RESTARTED AND THEY'RE KEPT ALIVE FOR, SAY A DAY, THEN THEY DIE, THEN YOU WILL SEE CHANGES IN THE BRAIN, BUT IN A CASE LIKE MR. FLOYD WHERE HE DIED DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME AND HIS HEART WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE RESTARTED, THAT IS NOT ENOUGH TIME FOR THE BRAIN CELLS TO SHOW ANY KIND OF REACTION THAT YOU COULD SEE AT AUTOPSY. >> THANK YOU, DR. THOMAS. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. >> ANYTHING FURTHER? >> YES. DR. THOMAS, AFTER THE HEART STOPS, IF A HEART STOPS, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE BODY WILL CONTINUE TO BREATHE OR RESPIRE? >> YES, I SUPPOSE IT COULD IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES. >> AND THAT COULD -- THAT CONTINUED RESPIRATION AFTER THE HEART STOPS COULD BE A MATTER OF A MINUTE OR TWO, CORRECT? >> I SUPPOSE THAT CAN HAPPEN. >> AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT METHAMPHETAMINE ALSO FURTHER CONSTRICTS THE ARTERIES, RIGHT? >> IT CAN DO THAT. >> AND SO THAT CONSTRICTION, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE LEVEL OF METHAMPHETAMINE IN THE SYSTEM, THIS LOW LEVEL AS IT'S BEEN DESCRIBED, RIGHT? YOU SAID THERE'S NO SAFE LEVEL. AGREED? >> YES. >> WOULD YOU AS A PHYSICIAN PRESCRIBE METHAMPHETAMINE TO A PERSON WHO HAS A 90% OR A 75% PRECLUSION TO HIS OR HER HEART? >> OBJECTION, THAT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE AND THE RELEVANCE. >> YOU MAY ANSWER IT IF YOU HAVE AN OPINION IN THAT REGARD. >> YEAH, I DON'T HAVE AN OPINION. I'M SORRY. >> OKAY. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU, DR. THOMAS. YOU'RE EXCUSED. MEMBERS OF THE JURY, WE'LL TAKE OUR LUNCH RECESS. WE'LL RECONVENE AT 1:30. >> AND COURT IS NOW LUNCH BREAK HERE IN THE TRIAL OF FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN ON TRIAL FOR THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD. TODAY WE HAVE HEARD TESTIMONY FROM DR. LINDSEY THOMAS. SHE'S A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST. SHE USED TO WORK IN HENNEPIN COUNTY BUT HAS WORKED IN SEVERAL OTHER CITIES AND STATES AND HAS ACTUALLY WORKED WITH DR. ANDREW BAKER WHO IS THE MEDICAL EXAMINER WHO ACTUALLY CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY ON GEORGE FLOYD. WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM BAKER LATER TODAY, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE'VE BEEN HEARING FROM DR. THOMAS ABOUT HER INTERPRETATION OF BOTH THE AUTOPSY RESULTS IN THIS CASE AS WELL AS HER ADDITIONAL ASSESSMENTS FROM LOOKING AT OTHER EVIDENCE LIKE THE VIDEO. SO FAR THOMAS HAS SAID THAT SHE BELIEVES THAT SHE AGREES WITH DR. BAKER ON CAUSE OF DEATH, EXPLAINING THAT CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT AS WAS INDICATED IN THE AUTOPSY JUST ESSENTIALLY MEANS THAT GEORGE FLOYD DIED WHILE BEING RESTRAINED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT. BUT SHE SAID SHE IS GOING THE EXTRA STEP OF SAYING THAT HE DIED OF LOW OXYGEN AS A RESULT OF COMBINING THE RESULTS IN THE AUTOPSY WITH ALSO HER ASSESSMENT OF WATCHING THE VIDEO EVIDENCE. I WANT TO GO LIVE OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE COLOR HERE. ZORINE. WE'VE HEARD FROM DR. THOMAS ON SO MANY ASPECTS OF THIS CASE SO FAR FROM HER BELIEF ON CAUSE OF DEATH TO HER BELIEF ON MANNER OF DEATH, BUT ALSO RULING OUT A LOT OF WHAT THE DEFENSE IS TRYING TO ARGUE MAY ALSO HAVE CAUSED GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH INCLUDING HIS DRUG USE AND HIS HEART CONDITION. >> Reporter: YEAH, DIANE, SHE CERTAINLY RULED OUT A LOT OF FACTORS, BUT LET ME TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HER FIRST. DR. LINDSEY THOMAS, SHE HAS SEEN OVER 5,000 AUTOPSIES. SHE'S OVERSEEN THOSE, BUT LOOK, ONLY ONE AUTOPSY MATTERS RIGHT NOW. THAT IS THE OFFICIAL ONE THAT MEDICAL EXAMINER ANDREW BAKER CONDUCTED. NOW, WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM HIM LIKELY LATER ON TODAY, BUT SHE IS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HIM INCREDIBLY CLOSELY. IN FACT, SHE SAYS SHE TRAINED HIM AND SO SHE SAYS SHE AGREES WITH HIM AFTER SEEING SO MUCH FOOT AGE FROM THIS PARTICULAR CASE WHAT HIS CAUSE OF DEATH WAS, CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST KOCH K COMPLICATED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT. SHE TALKS ABOUT ASPHYXIA, WHICH PLAYED A ROLE. THAT IS WHEN THE BODY IS DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN, AND THEN SHE STARTS RULING OUT EVERYTHING ELSE. SHE RULES OUT THE DRUG USE. SHE RULES OUT THE STROKE. SHE TALKS ABOUT HOW FLOYD HAD COVID. SHE RULES THAT OUT AS WELL. AND SHE MAKES THIS REALLY INTERESTING ANALOGY. SHE TALKS ABOUT AN 84-YEAR-OLD HAVING A HIP FRACTURE. NOW, SHE SAYS THAT 84-YEAR-OLD COULD ALSO HAVE ASTHMA, COULD HAVE DIABETES, BUT YOU WOULDN'T NECESSARILY NARROW THOSE TWO THINGS AS THE CAUSE OF DEATH, BUT YOU MIGHT JUST HAVE THEM FOR A DATA PERSPECTIVE. SHE'S TRYING TO EXPLAIN HOW FLOYD COULD HAVE HAD ALL THESE OTHER FACTORS GOING ON BUT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT ASPHYXIA AS THE CAUSE -- AS THE SPECIFIC CAUSE OF THE DEATH. >> AND I FOUND AN INTERESTING PART OF HER QUESTIONING CAME SURROUNDING THE WORD COMP COMPLICATING. EVEN THOUGH WHEN SHE TRANSLATED IT AND MANY OF US DISCUSSED THE FINDINGS IN THIS AUTOPSY, THE LANGUAGE USED IS SOMETHING LIKE CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT OR SHE USED THE WORDS DUE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT. WHAT'S ACTUALLY IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT IS CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT, AND SO HERE'S THE DEFENSE QUESTIONING HER ABOUT THAT WORD AND HOW IT MAY BE INTERPRETED DIFFERENTLY. >> IN TERMS OF THE WORD COMP K -- COMPLICATING. IT'S CAPABLE OF DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS BASED UPON THE FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND SO YOU AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF WHAT COMPLICATING MEANS COMPARED TO DR. BAKER, FOR EXAMPLE? >> YES. >> AND THERE'S A REASONABLE DEGREE OF DISAGREEMENT AMONGST -- IN ANY CASE GENERALLY, IT'S REASONABLE FOR DOCTORS TO DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER, IS IT NOT? >> THAT SOMETIMES HAPPENS, YES. >> SO ZORIDA EVERY NOW AND THEN IN A COURT CASE WE COME ACROSS THIS WHERE SO MUCH HANGS ON ONE WORD. IN THIS CASE, WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM DR. BAKER LATER ON IN THIS CASE. SO HOW MUCH IS GOING TO HINGE ON THEIR DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF THE WORD COMPLICATING? >> Reporter: I MEAN, IT COULD BE QUITE A LOT. YOU ALREADY HEARD THE DEFENSE TRYING TO PINHOLES -- POKE HOKES IN THE CASE BY ASKING ABOUT VERY SPECIFIC DETAILS ABOUT THE HEART CONDITION, FOR EXAMPLE, AND TRYING TO NARROW HER DOWN ON WHAT SHE TALKED ABOUT WITH THE PROSECUTORS EARLIER IN THE DAY, BUT DIANE, I ALSO WANT TO BRING YOUR ATTENTION, YOU TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFICS ON THE WORRYING AND THE MAGNITUDE OF THIS CASE. SOMETHING ELSE REALLY IMPORTANT HAPPENED EARL YOUIER TODAY AS W. EARLIER THIS MORNING, YOU HAD THE JUDGE PULL ASIDE ONE OF THE JURY MEMBERS AND ASK HER IF SHE HAD ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCE THAT HAD MAYBE INFLUENCED HER. SHE TALKED ABOUT HOW SHE TURNED ON THE TV AT ONE MOMENT. SHE SAID THE SOUND WAS OFF. SHE SAW A LAWYER, A DARK-HAIRED LAWYER. SHE TURNED THE TV RIGHT OFF, AND THE PERSON ASKED HER -- THE JUDGE ASKED HER IF SHE HAD ANY CONTACT WITH ANY MEMBERS FROM OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE. SHE TALKED ABOUT HOW A RELATIVE HAD ACTUALLY TEXTED HER. SHE DIDN'T REPLY BACK. IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE THE COURTROOM, THE THINGS WE ACTUALLY DON'T SEE ON TV, AND JUST SOME OF THE COLOR THAT'S HAPPENING AND JUST HOW INCREDIBLY JUST MAGNITUDE OF THIS ENTIRE CASE. DIANE. >> IT DOES AND IT HAS TO BE TOUGH FOR JURORS. IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO STAY ISOLATED FROM MEDIA AND OTHER OUTSIDE INPUT HAVING TO DO WITH THE CASE, BUT YOU HAVE TO IMAGINE IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THEM FOR A CASE THAT'S GETTING THIS MUCH ATTENTION. SO NOW THAT DR. THOMAS HAS BEEN CROSS EXAMINED BY THE DEFENSE AND THEN REDIRECTED BY THE PROSECUTION, OVERALL, WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF HER TESTIMONY ON THIS CASE, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THAT WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM DR. BAKER. I MEAN, LOOK, IT BASICALLY BOLSTERS EXACTLY WHAT WE HEARD YESTERDAY, RIGHT, BY DR. MARTIN TOBIN. HE BASICALLY -- HE TALKED ABOUT THE CAUSE BEING RELATED TO THE LOW LEVELS OF OXYGEN. HE SAID THAT A HEALTHY PERSON WOULD HAVE DIED AS WELL IF THEY WERE PUT IN THE SAME SITUATION AS FLOYD WAS PUT IN HE ATTRIT -- THE OTHER FACTORS, THE HEART CONDITION, THE POTENTIAL DRUG USE. IT ESSENTIALLY BOLSTERS WHAT WE HEARD SO FAR. >> WE KNOW IT'S HIGHLY ANTICIPATED. WE KNOW IT'S EXPECTED. WE BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. >>> WE WILL GUIDE YOU THROUGH IT ALL TONIGHT. . >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> WE TELL ALL OUR PATIENTS HOW MUCH THEY'RE LOVED. WE HOLD THEIR HANDS. >> DAVID, WE'RE SHOWING OUR LOVE AND SUPPORT FOR ALL THE ICU STAFF. >> THEY'RE THE HEROES IN THIS. >> NOW, WHEN IT MATTERS MOST, THE STRAIGHTFORWARD FACTS, ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS, NUMBER ONE IN THE MORNING, NUMBER ONE IN THE EVENING WITH AMERICA'S MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST, NUMBER ONE IN LATE NIGHT VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE NEWS MAGAZINE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS, NUMBER ONE IN POLITICS ACROSS THIS HISTORIC ELECTION VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE DAYTIME TALK SHOW AND NUMBER ONE IN STREAMING NEWS. ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS. LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREE ON APPLE PODCASTS. >> ABC NEWS HONORED, WINNER FOR THE SECOND STRAIGHT YEAR WITH THE EDWARD R. MURROW AWARD FOR OVERALL EXCELLENCE IN TELEVISION. ABC NEWS, AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS SOURCE. >> THE REALITY IS OUR COMPANY CAN COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> WE SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVE ON THE MARCH. >> CLANS MEN AND NEO-NAZIS, SKIN HEADS, IT'S MEANT TO INCITE WAR. >> HOME GROWN HATE. >> FRIDAY NIGHTS 9/8 CENTRAL, TRUE CRIME, CINEMATIC REAL LIFE DRAMA, STUNNING, THE UNTHINKABLE. FOLLOW THE CLUES. THE HUNT, TRUE CRIME 2020, FRIDAY NIGHTS 9/8 CENTRAL ON ABC. >> THE MOST POWERFUL STORIES OF OUR TIME ANYTIME, "NIGHTLINE." >> SOMEWHERE OUT IN THE COUNTRY THERE'S A MAN. >> I'M BOBBY. >> DOING GOOD THINGS FOR GOOD PEOPLE. >> WALK A MILE IN THEIR SHOES E THEN GET THEM A BRAND SPANKING NEW PAIR WHEN THEY'RE DONE. >> JUST WANTED YOU TO HAVE THIS. >> THANK YOU. >> YOU NAME IT. EVEN IF IT BREAKS HIM. >> BOBBY BONES, THEY'RE TRYING TO BREAK YOU. >> OH, GREAT. >> BREAKING BOBBY BONES, NEW SERIES MONDAY, MAY 31st AT 10:00 ON NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC. >>> WELCOME BACK TO "ABC NEWS LIVE" CONTINUING COVERAGE OF THE TRIAL AGAINST DEREK CHAUVIN, THE FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER CHARGED IN THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. I'M DIANE MACEDO HERE WITH TERRY MORAN. SO FAR WE'VE BEEN LISTENING TO THE TESTIMONY OF DR. LINDSEY THOMAS. SHE'S A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST WALKING US THROUGH THE FINDINGS OF THE AUTOPSY REPORT AND EXPLAINING HER OWN FINDINGS THAT SHE BELIEVES GEORGE FLOYD DIED OF LOW OXYGEN, AND HOW SHE DOES NOT BELIEVE THOSE FINDINGS CONFLICT WITH THE AUTOPSY REPORT BUT RATHER ACT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE AUTOPSY REPORT. WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE ACTUAL MEDICAL EXAMINER WHO CONDUCTED THAT AUTOPSY. WE BELIEVE LATER TODAY, AND WE'RE GOING TO GO TO OUR LEGAL PANEL IN A SECOND TO UNPACK SOME OF WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM DR. THOMAS SO FAR BUT FIRST I WANT TO BRING IN FLOYD FAMILY ATTORNEY LEE MERRITT FOR MORE ON THE BROADER IMPACT OF THIS CASE. LEE, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. I KNOW THIS HAS TO BE A TOUGH TIME FOR THE FAMILY. AS YOU'RE WATCHING THE DETAILS OF HADTHIS CASE UNFOLD, HOW IS FAMILY REACTING? >> THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY NERVE-RACKING TIME FOR THE FAMILY. AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, NO ONE IN THE COUNTRY IS MORE INVESTED IN THE OUTCOME OF THIS CASE THAN THE FAMILY, AND THEY'RE PAYING PROBABLY CLOSER ATTENTION TO THE DETAILS THAN ANYONE BESIDES HOPEFULLY THE JURY AND THE ATTORNEYS INVOLVED. AND SO AS THIS EVIDENCE COMES IN, THEY'VE BEEN ANTICIPATING THIS EVIDENCE. IN FACT, THE FAMILY HIRED A PRIVATE FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST WHO WE'RE HEARING FROM TODAY. IT WAS THEIR INITIAL HIRE AND BECAUSE THEY WANTED A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR LOVED ONE, AND NOW AS THE EVIDENCE COMES IN, THIS IS A VERY INTENSE TIME FOR THEM, IT'S A HUGE FAMILY, SO THE FAMILY IS WATCHING IT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. AND THEY ARE SO FAR PLEASED WITH HOW THE EVIDENCE IS GOING FORWARD. BUT THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT EVIDENCE IS BEING RECEIVED BY THE JURY IN SUCH A WAY THAT PROVES THE CASE AND ENSURES A CONVICTION. >> AND LEE, I UNDERSTAND THAT UNDER MINNESOTA LAW THERE IS THIS SPARK OF LIFE TESTIMONY THAT CAN COME IN, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM A LOT OF STATES IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM WHERE AT LEAST IN THE EVIDENCE PHASE, THE PENALTY PHASE IS DIFFERENT, WHERE JURORS GET A CHANCE AS THEY DON'T IN MANY CASES TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE PERSON, THE VICTIM IN THE CASE, THAN THEIR MERE VICTIM HOOD, THAN THEY DIED AT THE HANDS OF POLICE. DO YOU EXPECT MORE OF THAT? >> SO THAT TESTIMONY WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT, AGAIN, FOR THE FAMILY. VERY OFTEN IN THESE CASES HISTORICALLY WE BEGIN TO DEHUMANIZE THE VICTIM. RODNEY KING WAS THE VICTIM OF THE FAMOUS INCIDENT OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN LOS ANGELES, SEEING THAT VIDEO OVER AND OVER AGAIN DESENSITIZED THE PUBLIC AND OFTEN THE JURY POOL AND TO THE SPARK OF LIFE, THE FACT THAT RODNEY KING WAS A FULL HUMAN BEING. SIMILARLY, GEORGE FLOYD'S BECOME A HASHTAG. HE'S BECOME A RALLYING CRY, BUT THE FAMILY WANTS THE JURY TO KNOW THAT HE WAS A PERSON, THAT HIS LIFE HAD VALUE, THAT IF HE HADN'T BEEN ASSAULTED IN THE WAY THAT HE WAS THAT HE COULD HAVE LED A PRODUCTIVE LIFE, THAT FAMILY MEMBERS RELIED ON HIM, AND HOW THAT EVIDENCE COMES IN IS GOING TO BE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO THIS FAMILY, PROBABLY, AGAIN, MORE IMPORTANT TO THIS FAMILY THAN ANY OTHER ASPECT OF THE CASE. >> AND LEE, I KNOW YOU SAID THAT SO FAR THE FAMILY IS HAPPY WITH THE WAY THE PROSECUTION IS PRESENTING ITS CASE AND WITH THE EVIDENCE THAT'S COMING OUT SO FAR. BUT WE'VE ALL SEEN COURT CASES THAT DON'T GO ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT THE FAMILY OF THE VICTIM EXPECTS. IS THE FLOYD FAMILY PREPARING FOR ANY VERDICT AT THIS POINT? >> WELL, THEY'RE PUSHING AND PRAYING AND HOPING FOR A CONV CONVICTION. THEY KNOW THAT THE PROSECUTION'S CASE IN CHIEF ISN'T COMPLETE YET, AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S UPS AND DOWNS AND TRIALS. THERE'S GOOD POINTS AND THERE'S BAD MOMENTS. THEY BELIEVE THAT THE PROSECUTOR HAS PREPARED A CASE THAT IS SUFFICIENT, EVEN MORE THAN SUFFICIENT TO SECURE A CONVICTION THAT WE BELIEVE THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING, AND SO WE BELIEVE THE APPROPRIATE OUTCOME WILL BE A CONVICTION, BUT OF COURSE THESE FAMILIES HAVE BUILT NETWORKS WITH FAMILIES ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO HAD ENOUGH EVIDENCE FOR A CONVICTION BUT DIDN'T EVEN GET TO TRIAL. AND SO THEY'RE PREPARED TO BE DISAPPOINTED AS WELL. HOWEVER, OF COURSE, THE SAYING IS THEY ARE HOPING FOR THE BEST AND ALSO PREPARING FOR THE WORST. >> AND CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION BOTH ON THE REPUTATION OF YOUR FLOYD FAMILY AND YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY. THIS TRIAL BEING STRAINED AND TELEVISED ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AROUND THE WORLD. HOW IS THAT IMPACTING THE FAMILY? YOU THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING FOR THE FLOYD FAMILY, AND HOW DOES THIS CASE, FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE FIT IN THAT SAD CATALOG OF CASES THAT YOU JUST TOUCHED ON WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T GET THE JUSTICE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR? >> YOU KNOW, HAVING SO MUCH MEDIA ATTENTION SURROUNDING THIS PARTICULAR TRIAL CUTS BOTH WAYS FOR THE FAMILY, AND ONE WAY IT VALIDATES THAT THEIR LOVED ONE WAS VALUABLE, THAT HIS LIFE MATTERED, AND THAT ALL RESOURCES AVAILABLE FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA AND FROM THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE WILL GO TOWARDS A CONVICTION. ON THE OTHER HAND, THIS IS A VERY PRIVATE MOMENT. THINGS THAT HE STRUGGLED WITH LIKE ADDICTION MAYBE OR PRIVATE RELATIONSHIPS THAT FAMILIES WERE NOT PREPARED TO HAVE DISCUSSED ALL AROUND THE WORLD ARE NOW BEING OPENLY DEBATED. GEORGE FLOYD, OF COURSE, HIS PERSON IS BEING ATTACKED AND UNDERMINED THAT. ST THAT'S A NATURAL PART OF THE DEFENSE. AGAIN, HIGHS AND LOWS ABOUT THE MEDIA PRESENCE AND THE ATTENTION SURROUNDING THE CASE. AND THIS CASE IS UNIQUE IN THE AMOUNT -- MY OFFICE AND FAMILIES HAVE BEEN A PART OF HIGH PROFILE CASES 15-YEAR-OLD JORDAN EDWARDS KILLED, WE'VE SEEN CONVICTIONS. WE'VE SEEN ACQUITTALE S AND IN THIS CASE, I CAN SAY I HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY IMPRESSED BY THE COMMITMENT OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE FOR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, BRINGING IN THE BEST PROSECUTORS, PREPARING THEIR WITNESSES AND ROLLING OUT THE EVIDENCE IN A WAY I FIND COMPELLING, ENGAGING AND SOMETHING THAT I BELIEVE WOULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE JURY TO RELY ON TO FIND OFFICER CHAUVIN GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES. HOWEVER, BASED ON OUR NEVER KNW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MINDS OF JURORS. WE STILL REMAIN ON PINS AND NEEDLES. >> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW UNIQUE THIS CASE IS. IT'S ALSO UNIQUE IN THE AMOUNT OF VIDEO EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE. AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT PERSONAL THINGS LIKE GEORGE FLOYD'S DRUG USE NOW BECOMING A PUBLIC SOURCE OF DISCUSSION BECAUSE THEY ALL COME OUT IN THIS TRIAL. I MEAN, IN ADDITION TO THAT, SOMETHING THAT NORMALLY HAPPENS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, THE WORLD YESTERDAY LITERALLY SAW THE MOMENT HE TOOK HIS LAST BREATH. I IMAGINE FOR THE FAMILY, I MEAN, IT'S HARD FOR ANYBODY TO WATCH, AND THOSE VIDEOS MUST BE TORMENTING FOR THE FAMILY TO WATCH, BUT I WONDER IF THERE'S A PART OF THEM THAT'S GRATEFUL FOR THOSE VIDEOS GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THAT THEY'RE PUTTING INTO THIS CASE, INCLUDING JUST HEARING A PATHOLOGIST SAY TODAY THAT SHE IS BASING LARGELY HER FINDINGS THAT GEORGE FLOYD DIED OF LOW OXYGEN BASED ON THAT VIDEO EVIDENCE. >> YEAH, AND AGAIN, IT CUTS BOTH WAYS. THE FAMILY IS EXTREMELY GRATEFUL THAT THIS EVIDENCE EXISTS, AND THEY KNOW BECAUSE OF THEIR CAMARADERIE WITH OTHER FAMILIES WHERE THE VIDEOS DON'T EXIST OR THE EVIDENCE DISAPPEARS AND IT'S NOT AVAILABLE, AND THE CASE DOESN'T GO FORWARD. THEY'RE GRATEFUL FOR IT. THEY ARE EXPERIENCING THAT DEATH IN A UNIQUE WAY THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY. WHEN THEY WATCH THAT 9 MINUTE AND 29 SECOND VIDEO, FOR THEM THEY'RE WATCHING NOT SOMEONE SUFFERING AN INJUSTICE, THEY'RE WATCHING THEIR FATHER, THEIR BROTHER, THEIR SON BE KILLED ON LIVE TV AND THEY'RE WATCHING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND THEY'RE EXPERIENCING IT IN A WAY THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF US. EVEN AS A FAMILY ATTORNEY, I OFTEN HAVE TO CATCH MYSELF DEALING WITH A CASE AS A CASE, AS A LEGAL PROBLEM THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN HIRED TO HELP ADDRESS AND FORGETTING ABOUT THE HUM HUMAN ASPECT OF THE FAMILY ACTUALLY SUFFERING. EVERY TIME THESE ISSUES ARE EVEN MENTIONED. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO TRIGGER A FAMILY, AND THAT'S PART OF THE DANGERS OF HAVING FAMILIES IN COURTROOMS, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE TO FACE IN THIS CASE BECAUSE OF CORONAVIRUS BECAUSE THERE'S OFTEN SOMETHING THAT IS NOT TRIGGERING FOR THE REST OF THE COURT THAT WILL BE SPECIFICALLY TRIGGERING FOR THE FAMILY. >> AND THEN LET ME ASK HOW ARE THEY DOING? IT IS SUCH A HARD EXPERIENCE FOR ANY FAMILY TO GO THROUGH, AND AS YOU SAY IN THE SPOTLIGHT, BUT SO MUCH LOVE AND SUPPORT AND SORROW HAS FLOWED THEIR WAY. HOW IS THE FLOYD FAMILY DOING? >> THE FAMILY IS GRATEFUL FOR THE AMOUNT OF SUPPORT THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. THEY ARE TRYING THEIR BEST TO BOTH REMAIN PRIVATE AND FULFILL THEIR PUBLIC ROLE IN ADVOCATING FOR GEORGE FLOYD BECAUSE THE FAMILY IS SO BIG THAT THE RESPONSE DIFFERENT FROM MOM AND DAD AND BROTHER TO SISTER AND SON. BUT OVERALL THE FAMILY IS HOLDING TOGETHER, SUPPORTING EACH OTHER, AND PRAYING FOR THE BEST OUTCOME. >> WELL, THAT'S GREAT TO HEAR. GOOD TO HEAR, AND OUR BEST TO THEM, AND LEE MERRITT, LAWYER FOR THE FLOYD FAMILY, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY. >> THANK YOU. >>> AND WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH OUR LEGAL EXPERTS AND THEIR TAKE ON THIS MORNING'S TESTIMONY. >> NOW, WHEN IT MATTERS MOST, THE STRAIGHTFORWARD FACTS, ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS, NUMBER ONE IN THE MORNING, NUMBER ONE IN THE EVENING WITH AMERICA'S MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST. NUMBER ONE IN LATE NIGHT VERSUS THE COMPETITION, THE NUMBER ONE NEWS MAGAZINE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS. NUMBER ONE IN POLITICS, ACROSS THIS HISTORIC ELECTION VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE DAYTIME TALK SHOW, AND NUMBER ONE IN STREAMING NEWS. ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. >> THE MOST POWERFUL STORIES OF OUR TIME ANYTIME, "NIGHTLINE." >> FRIDAY NIGHTS 9/8 CENTRAL, TRUE CRIME, CINEMATIC, REAL LIFE DRAMA, STUNNING, THE UNTHINKABLE, FOLLOW THE CLUES. THE HUNT, TRUE CRIME, 2020 FRIDAY NIGHTS ONLY ON ABC. >> THESE DAYS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. >> SEEMS TO CHANGE ABOUT EVERY DAY. >> WHAT IS IT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW, NEED TO KNOW? >> TO HELP YOU NOT JUST GET THROUGH YOUR DAY. >> BUT TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT. >> FEEL SMARTER. >> FEEL BETTER. >> FEEL HAPPIER. >> HOW ABOUT A THIRD HOUR OF "GOOD MORNING AMERICA". >> IN THE AFTERNOON. >> GMA3. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW, LUNCHTIME AT 1:00 EASTERN, 12:00 CENTRAL AND PACIFIC ON ABC. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU. >> I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AND I'M NOT GUILTY. >> WHY THE FASCINATION WITH CRIMINAL TRIALS? FIGURE OUT WHAT'S REALLY OUT THERE. >> SHE REVEALED SHE HAD MURDERED HIS FAMILY. >> I KNOW IN MY HEART THAT HE DID THIS. >> IT'S THE TIME OF SUSPICION. >> THE ENDING'S REALLY COME. >> YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER TRUTH IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO FIND UNLESS YOU TRY TO FIND IT. >> THE REALITY IS OUR COUNTRY CAN COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> WHITE LIVES MATTER! >> YOU SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVEMENT ON THE MARCH. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US! >> CLANSMEN AND NEO-NAZIS, SKIN HEADS. IT'S MEANT TO INCITE WAR. >> FROM THE KKK TO OKLAHOMA CITY, TO CHARLOTTESVILLE, THE NEW DOCUMENTARY EVENT SPECIAL. >> WE JUST NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE. >> HOME GROWN HATE, THE WAR AMONG US STREAMING NOW ON "ABC NEWS LIVE." >> IN THE SPACE OF THREE DAYS WE HAVE FIVE STUDENTS DEAD. >> THE SERIAL KILLER IS ON THE LOOSE. >> WE LIVE IN THE BIBLE BELT. THINGS LIKE THAT DON'T HAPPEN HERE. >> AND THE ONE HAUNTING PIECE OF EVIDENCE, THIS AUDIO CASSETTE THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING. NOW, NEW, EMOTIONAL, AND REVEALING INTERVIEWS FROM THOSE WHO WERE THERE. >> THERE WAS AN AUDIBLE GASP. >> HE DID SOMETHING NO ONE SAW COMING. >> PURE EVIL. >> 20/20 TONIGHT AT 9/8 CENTRAL ON ABC. . >> IT'S BEEN A CHANNELLING YEAR. >> THANK YOU "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT". >> THANK YOU, DAVID, FOR SHOWING US THE LOVE. >> DAVID, WE'RE SHOWING OUR LOVE AND SUPPORT FOR ALL THE ICU STAFF. ♪ >> WELCOME BACK. YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING OUR CONTINUING COVERAGE OF THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN FOR THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD. THE COURT IS ON LUNCH BREAK RIGHT NOW. I'M TERRY MORAN. >> I'M DIANE MACEDO. WE'VE BEEN HEARING TESTIMONY FROM DR. LINDSEY THOMAS, WHO'S A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST DESCRIBING HER FINDINGS THAT GEORGE FLOYD DIED OF LOW OXYGEN IS WHY SHE DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE OFFICIAL AUTOPSY CONDUCTED BY THE COUNTY, AND FOR MORE ON THAT TESTIMONY AND SOME ANALYSIS, WE WANT TO BRING IN OUR ATTORNEY WALTER MADISON FOR MORE ON THIS. WALTER, WELCOME, THANKS FOR BEING HERE AS USUAL. I WANTED TO GET YOUR TAKE ON FIRST JUST DR. THOMAS COMING RIGHT OUT AND SAYING SHE BELIEVES GEORGE FLOYD DIED OF LACK OF OXYGEN, AND ALL THE AUTOPSY IS SAYING IN THIS ONE SENTENCE ON CAUSE OF DEATH IS THAT HE DIED DUE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT, SO ESSENTIALLY THAT'S NOT A CONFLICTING FINDING. >> WELL, I THINK SHE'S NECESSARY. I THINK THAT SHE IS DOING -- FULFILLING HER PURPOSE, WHICH IS BOLSTERING DR. BAKER'S ULTIMATE FINDING WHICH LEFT SOME QUESTION, AND I BELIEVE THE STATE FEELS THAT IT LEAVES ROOM FOR THE DEFENSE TO RAISE SOME DOUBT, AND WE -- THE STAKES ARE VERY HIGH HERE, AND I BELIEVE THAT SHE'S VERY STRATEGICALLY PLACED IN THE LINEUP BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY SHE IS AN EXPERT. SHE BOLSTERS DR. BAKER BY SAYING I TRAINED HIM, AND THEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, MUCH OF THE MATERIAL AND CROSS EXAMINATION THAT MR. NELSON MUST EXERCISE, THEY GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR ONCE THROUGH DR. THOMAS AND THEY'LL BE PREPARED A LITTLE MORE ADEQUATELY AS THEY PUT DR. BAKER ON TO MAKE SURE HIS FINDINGS ARE FULLY SUPPORTABLE. >> AND WALTER, IT WAS STRATEGICALLY AND NEATLY DONE, I THINK, BECAUSE THE PROSECUTORS HAVE THIS PROBLEM. THEY DISAGREE WITH THE MEDICAL EXAMINER OF HENNEPIN COUNTY WHO WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM THIS AFTERNOON, ON EXACTLY MEDICALLY HOW GEORGE FLOYD DIED, AND THE IN THE OPENING STATEMENTS, WE HEARD FROM DEFENSE LAWYER ERIC NELSON THAT THIS DISAGREEMENT ACTUALLY -- THERE WAS BACK AND FORTH, THAT THE JURORS WOULD HEAR THE DISCUSSION AND DEBATE AND I SEE DOCUMENTS ABOUT THE DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN PROSECUTORS AND THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, AND HERE WHAT THEY DID IS THEY GOT A WITNESS WHO NOT ONLY WORKED AT THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE, NOT ONLY TRAINED ANDREW BAKER, BUT SHE DOESN'T ENTIRELY DISAGREE. SHE WANTS TO ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE. IT REMAINS A PROBLEM FOR PROSECUTORS, DOESN'T IT? >> IT DOES, AND LARGELY IF THE JURORS FIND THAT SHE WAS -- HER TESTIMONY IS SOMEWHAT -- I DON'T MEAN TO SUGGEST THAT SHE'S NOT BEING HONEST, BUT SIMPLY IF SHE'S PLACED THERE TO CLEAN UP SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN, I BELIEVE THEN THE DEFENSE MAY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THEIR JOB, WHICH IS RAISE THE DOUBT AND THE REALITY, AND WE ALL KNOW, IS THEY DON'T HAVE -- MR. NELSON AND MR. CHAUVIN, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING. ALL THAT THEY MUST DO IS GENERATE SOME DOUBT, AND I THINK THE PROSECUTION ACKNOWLEDGED THAT PROBLEM. I THINK THAT THEY DID THAT AS MASTERFULLY AS THEY POSSIBLY COULD. I THOUGHT THAT DR. THOMAS CAME ON VERY BELIEVABLE AND CREDIBLE. SHE PUSHED BACK WHEN SHE NEEDED TO, AND SHE WAS -- SHE CONCEDED ON MATTERS AS SHE MUST. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- I BELIEVED ALWAYS THAT IT WAS GOING TO COME DOWN TO CAUSATION AND THE CREDIBILITY OF THE EXPERT WITNESSES, AND I THINK LASTLY, I'LL SAY I THINK THAT SHE ADDED A PLAIN TALK ELEMENT TO SOME OF THE TESTIMONY FROM PATHOLOGISTS WHO ARE OFTEN HARD FOR JURORS TO UNDERSTAND, AND THEN YOU ADD THE COMPLEXITY OF THE FACT THAT THIS MATTER IS BEING TELEVISED LIVE AROUND THE WORLD. THIS IS THE PART OF THE TRIAL WHERE I BELIEVE THE STATE OF MINNESOTA REALIZED OR REALIZES THAT THEY COULD LOSE SOME MOMENTUM. >> WALTER, I THOUGHT AN INTERESTING THREAD THAT ERIC NELSON PULLED ON WAS THE USE OF THE WORD COMPLICATING IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT. THE WAY THAT DR. THOMAS DESCRIBES IT IS THAT THE AUTOPSY'S FINDINGS SHOW CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST DUE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT, BUT THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT IS CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT RESTRAINT. AND HERE YOU HAVE THE DEFENSE ASKING HER COULD YOU AND DR. BAKER, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON WHAT THE WORD "COMPLICATING" MEANS IN THAT CONTEXT. AND SHE SAYS YES. DOES THAT TELL YOU THAT NELSON IS EXPECTING TO GET A DIFFERENT DEFINITION FROM BAKER WHEN HE'S ON THE STAND? >> I DO, I THINK THAT'S A FORESHADOW OF WHAT DR. BAKER MUST SAY. THERE'S NOT -- WE KNOW WHAT HE HAS SAID AND PUT TO A REPORT. THAT'S BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR A WHILE NOW. HE CANNOT FOR FEAR OF LOSING CREDIBILITY BACK PEDAL OFF OF THAT, AND I BELIEVE THE COMPLICATING, THAT WORD CHOICE THERE, IS PERMISSIVE IN A WAY. IT'S NOT AS STRONG THAT WOULD SUPPORT OR BE PARALLEL WITH BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, IF YOU COULD CONCEPTUALIZE THAT. SO THAT COMPLICATING LEADS TO ANYONE'S IMAGINATION OR POSSIBILITY, AND THAT EQUATES TO DOUBT. SO ANOTHER REASON DR. THOMAS WAS VERY, VERY HELPFUL, BUT I THINK THAT DISTINCTION SHE TRIED TO MAKE TO A DISCERNING PERSON WHO'S PAYING ATTENTION IS GOING TO BE WORTH A LOT OF DISCUSSION IN THAT JURY ROOM. >> I ALSO WANTED TO SHOW YOU A KIND OF LONG BUT INTERESTING LINE OF QUESTIONING WHEN DR. TOM MASK BEI CROSS EXAMINED WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY, ERIC NELSON, IS TRYING TO POINT OUT THAT GEORGE FLOYD DID NOT HAVE OBVIOUS SYMPTOMS OF HYPOXIA OR LOW OXYGEN, AND HE'S TRYING TO GET DR. THOMAS TO CONFIRM THAT. I WANT TO PLAY THAT CLIP FOR YOU. >> THAT LACK OF OXYGEN TO THE BRAIN, THAT WILL FREQUENTLY LEAD TO CERTAIN SYMPTOMS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> CONFUSION IS ONE? >> IT COULD BE, YES. >> RESTLESSNESS? >> COULD BE, YES. >> SHORTNESS OF BREATH? >> COULD BE. >> VISUAL CHANGES. >> COULD BE, MM-HMM. >> INCOHERENT SPEAKING? >> COULD BE. >> SO TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DID MR. FLOYD IN THE VIDEOS THAT YOU OBSERVED EVER COMPLAIN OF THESE -- ANY VISUAL CHANGES? >> NO. >> DID HE APPEAR TO BE CONFUSED TO YOU? >> SO WHAT TIME -- I GUESS WHAT TIME PERIOD ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? SORRY. >> SURE, THAT HELPS, MAYBE IF WE NARROW DOWN. THE 9 MINUTES, DURING THE 9 MINUTES THAT MR. FLOYD WAS RESTRAINED, DID HE APPEAR CONFUSED TO YOU? >> OH, GOSH, HOW DO YOU DESCRIBE HIS BEHAVIOR? >> WELL, I MEAN, DID HE -- HE WAS ARTICULATING THAT HE WAS IN PAIN, RIGHT? >> YES. AND THEN HE COULDN'T BREATHE AND HE CALLS FOR HIS MOTHER AND HE SAYS HE LOVES PEOPLE. I MEAN, YOU MIGHT INTERPRET THAT AS CONFUSION, OR YOU MIGHT INTERPRET IT A DIFFERENT WAY. >> DID HE APPEAR TO BE BREATHING DURING THIS TIME FRAME? >> NOT EFFECTIVELY. >> DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY BREATHS PER MINUTE? >> NO. >> IF ONE EXPERT INDICATED IT WAS AT A RATE OF 22 BREATHS PER MINUTE, WOULD YOU DISAGREE? >> I WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF ASSESSING THAT. >> WHEN SOMEONE IS HYPOXIC, YOU START BREATHING FASTER, RIGHT? >> THAT CAN BE A MECHANISM, MM-HMM, OF TRYING TO BALANCE. >> AT LEAST FOR THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES OR SO, MR. FLOYD WAS TALKING, RIGHT? >> WELL, AGAIN -- >> TALKING, YES OR NO? HE WAS TALKING? >> HE WAS -- YES, THERE WAS -- THERE WERE WORDS, YES. >> SO HE HAD AN OPEN AIRWAY? >> YES. >> AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT -- OR WOULD YOU AGREE THAT AT SOME POINT HE WENT LIMP -- >> YES. >> -- RIGHT? AND WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU SAW AS THE PROGRESSION OF HYPOXIA IN THAT INSTANCE AT THE POINT HE GOES LIMP? >> THAT IS CERTAINLY A GOOD EXPLANATION FOR IT, YES. >> IT WAS NOT A SUDDEN HYPOXIC EVENT, RIGHT? >> THAT IS MY INTERPRETATION, YES. >> WALTER, THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING DIDN'T SEEM TO GO AS SMOOTHLY AS ERIC NELSON WOULD HAVE HOPED, BUT DO YOU THINK HE GOT WHERE HE WAS TRYING TO GO THERE? >> I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS HE MAY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO EXTRACT FROM DR. THOMAS IS THAT SHE SEEMED TO BE BEING TAKEN INTO DEEP WATERS WHERE SHE DID NOT -- SHE WAS NOT COMFORTABLE, AND SHE HAD NO IDEA WHERE HE WAS GOING OR PERHAPS SHE KNEW WHERE HE WAS GOING AND HER RESPONSES WERE A BIT MORE PENSIVE. HER DELIVERY AND DEMEANOR WITH ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS, SHE WAS QUITE CAREFUL AS IF SHE KNEW THAT THIS TESTIMONY I'M BEING ASKED OR THESE QUESTIONS I'M BEING ASKED AT THIS MOMENT COULD TURN EVERYTHING THAT I'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED, IF I HAVE ESTABLISHED ANYTHING. BUT I DO THINK THAT MR. NELSON, HE MAINTAINED HIS POISE. I DON'T THINK THAT HE WAS EXPECTING SOME OF THE RESPONSES OR PERHAPS HE WAS EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESPONSE. THE EXCHANGE WAS QUITE INTERESTING. YOU CAN LOOK AT HER THINKING. YOU CAN SEE HER PONDERING OR CONTEMPLATING THE RESPONSE. THOSE THINGS MATTER TO JURORS. I THINK THEY REALIZED THE EASE AND THE FLUENCY IN WHICH SHE MAY RESPOND UPON DIRECT AND THEN UPON CROSS EXAMINATION IT MAY BE A BIT MORE INTERMITTENT. SO THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT APPEARS AS IF MR. NELSON HAS SOME EXPERT TESTIMONY LINED UP. THERE'S SOMETHING, SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RATE OF RESPIRATIONS HE QUESTIONED HER ABOUT, AND THAT'S A COMMON AND APPROPRIATE TACTIC TO CROSS EXAMINE AN EXPERT WITH THE OPINION OF ANOTHER EXPERT, ULTIMATELY HOPING THAT ANY ADVO ADVOCATE'S EXPERTS ARE MORE CREDIBLE THAN THE OTHERS. SO THEREFORE THE CASE WILL TURN THEIR WAY. >> WALTER, I WANT TO COME BACK TO THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER, ANDREW BAKER, BECAUSE I'M STUCK ON IT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN A MURDER CASE WHERE THE PROSECUTION ESSENTIALLY WANTS TO UNDERMINE THE AUTOPSY PERFORMED BY THE GOVERNMENT THAT THE PROSECUTION ALSO REPRESENTS. AT LEAST I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT. AND THE MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE IN AN ARTICLE YOU CAN FIND ONLINE, I'M GOING TO SUMMARIZE IT, THEY SAY THAT ERIC NELSON IS IN POSSESSION OF DOCUMENTS THAT WENT BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE, STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IN THIS CASE, AND THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER IN WHICH THEY TUSSLED OVER, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH CAN YOU SAY. AND WE HEARD ERIC NELSON TODAY ASK LINDSEY THOMAS THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IN THE ABSENCE OF THOSE OFFICERS AND YOU FOUND MR. FLOYD DEAD, YOU'D SAY IT WAS A CARDIAC EVENT, WOULDN'T YOU? AND SHE SAID YES AND THEN WAS -- THAT QUESTION MOCKED BY JARED BLACKWELL ON CROSS EXAMINATION. WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS? AND DOES IT SMELL RIGHT TO YOU? >> I HAVE NOT. TYPICALLY, THE GOVERNMENT, THEY USUALLY HAVE THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW AND THEY DO NOT UNDERMINE EACH OTHER BECAUSE THE DEFENSE CAN EASILY SAY, THEN, THAT, YOU KNOW THIS CASE PICKS YOU UP AT REASONABLE DOUBT AND DROPS YOU OFF AT NOT GUILTY. THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE CONFIDENCE IN WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. THEY CAN'T AGREE AMONGST THEMSELVES. THEREFORE IF THEY HAVE DOUBTS, THEN WHAT ELSE COULD YOU ALL AS JURORS HAVE. THEY PRESENTED A CASE TO YOU THAT IT WAS INCOMPLETE, AND THEY WERE UNABLE TO MEET THEIR BURDEN AS EVIDENCED BY THEIR OWN DISAGREEMENT. OUR WORK IS DONE HERE, OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE TO DO MORE ILLUSTRATION THAN WHAT I'M SUGGESTING, BUT THAT'S THE ESSENCE OF A CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER'S POSITION, TO RAISE DOUBT. AND IF IT CAN BE SAID THAT A DISAGREEMENT IS TANTAMOUNT TO DOUBT AND THIS EXCHANGE GOING BACK AND FORTH, ONLY TWO THINGS CAN HAPPEN. A, WE BELIEVE THAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND OR BELIEVE IN YOUR OWN CASE FIRMLY, OR B, THAT THIS TESTIMONY PLUS DR. THOMAS'S BOLSTERING IS ALL DESIGNED TO MAKE A SQUARE GO INTO A ROUND -- A SQUARE PEG INTO A ROUND HOLE, AND THAT JUST DOESN'T SATISFY PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT OR SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD RELY UPON AS IF IT WERE OUR OWN MOST IMPORTANT AFFAIRS, SO THEREFORE NOT BECAUSE YOU LIKE WHAT MR. CHAUVIN DID, NOT BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH THE LOSS OF LIFE OF THIS HUMAN BEING, BUT THE LAW DEMANDS YOU FIND HIM NOT GUILTY. >> SO WALTER, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE DEFENSE NEEDS TO HEAR FROM DR. BAKER WHEN HE TESTIFIES IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH REASONABLE DOUBT? >> I THINK IF THEY CAN SIMPLY GET HIM TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT HE HAS ALREADY INDICATED IN THE REPORT AND IF THERE IS THIS BACK AND FORTH EXCHANGE, FORECAST THAT OUT JUST SOME AND TIE THAT INTO THEIR DOUBT, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE ALL THAT ONE COULD GET FROM HIM. BECAUSE THE IDEA IS DR. BAKER IS THE HEADLINER, DR. THOMAS WAS THE LEAD IN ACT IF YOU WILL. SHE IS NOT THE PERSON WHO ULTIMATELY OPINED ON THE CAUSE OF DEATH FOR MR. GEORGE FLOYD. SO THEN IF WE CAN GET FROM HER SMALL NUGGETS AS I THINK MR. NELSON ATTEMPTED TO DO FROM HER, AND THEN ULTIMATELY GET DR. BAKER TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SHORTCOMINGS OR, AS THEY WOULD WANT TO PORTRAY, THE INHERENT DOUBT THAT THEY HAVE AMONGST THEMSELVES, I THINK HE WOULD BE FORTUNATE IN DOING HIS JOB IF HE CAN DO THAT. >> ALL RIGHT, ATTORNEY WALTER MADISON, IT'S ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOUR ANALYSIS, WALTER. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, DIANE. >>> WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH OUR COVERAGE OF THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL. WHEN WE COME BACK AFTER THE BREAK, WE'LL ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE DAY'S OTHER TOP STORIES. STAY WITH US. ♪ >> WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE, SO MUCH ON THE LINE, MORE AMERICANS TURN HERE THAN ANY OTHER NEWSCAST. ABC NEWS, "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" WITH DAVID MUIR. >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE, MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST ACROSS ALL OF TELEVISION. >> ADMIT IT, THESE DAYS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. >> SEEMS TO CHANGE JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY. >> WHAT IS IT THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW? NEED TO KNOW? >> TO HELP YOU NOT JUST GET THROUGH YOUR DAY. >> BUT TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT. FEEL SMARTER. >> FEEL BETTER. >> FEEL HAPPIER. >> WELL, HOW ABOUT A THIRD HOUR OF "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" IN THE AFTERNOON. >> GMA3. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW, LUNCHTIME AT 1:00 EASTERN, 12:00 CENTRAL AND PACIFIC ON ABC. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU. . >> ROBIN ROBERTS, GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, MICHAEL STRAHAN. WAKE UP WITH AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST WATCHED MORNING SHOW, ABC'S. >> "GOOD MORNING AMERICA". >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS. LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREE ON APPLE >>> WHSOMEWHERE OUT IN THE COUN COUNTRY THERE'S A MAN DOING GOOD THINGS FOR GOOD PEOPLE. >> JUST WANTED YOU TO HAVE THIS. >> THANK YOU. >> YOU NAME IT. HE'LL TRY IT. >> WHOA! >> EVEN IF IT BREAKS HIM. >> BREAKING BOBBY BONES, ON NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC. >>> ABC NEWS, AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS SOURCE. >>> FRIDAY NIGHTS, TRUE CRIME, CINEMATIC, REAL-LIFE DRAMA, STUNNING, THE UNTHINKABLE. FOLLOW THE CLUES, THE HUNT. TRUE CRIME, 2020, FRIDAY NIGHTS ON ABC. >> REALITY IS OUR COUNTRY CAN COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> YOU'LL SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVEMENT ON THE MARCH. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> NEO-NAZIS, SKIN HEADS, IT'S MEANT TO INSIGHT WAR. >> FROM THE KKK TO OKLAHOMA CITY TO CHARLOTTESVILLE. >> WE JUST NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE. >> HOME-GROWN HATE, THE WAR AMONG US, STREAMING NOW ON ABC NEWS LIVE. >> NOW, WHEN IT MATTERS MOST, THE STRAIGHTFORWARD FACTS. ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. NUMBER ONE IN THE MORNING. NUMBER ONE IN THE EVENING WITH AMERICA'S MOST-WATCHED NEWSCAST. NUMBER ONE IN LATE NIGHT VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE NEWS MAGAZINE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS. NUMBER ONE IN POLITICS, ACROSS THIS HISTORIC ELECTION VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE DAYTIME TALK SHOW AND NUMBER ONE IN STREAMING NEWS, ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. >>> WELCOME BACK. WE'LL GET TO OUR COVERAGE OF THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN IN A MOMENT. FIRST WE HAVE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE DAY'S OTHER TOP STORIES INCLUDING THE DEATH OF PRINCE PHILLIP. THE HUSBAND OF QUEEN ELIZABETH HAS DIED AT THE AGE OF 99. THE PALACE SAID IN A STATEMENT HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS PASSED AWAY PEACEFULLY THIS MORNING AT WINDSOR CASTLE. PRINCE PHILLIP AND QUEEN ELIZABETH WERE MARRIED ALMOST 74 YEARS. HE RETIRED FROM ROYAL DUTIES IN 2017 BUT CONTINUED TO WATCH HIS ROYAL FAMILY GROW WITH THEIR FOUR CHILDREN, THEIR EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN AND NOW NINE GREAT GRANDCHILDREN. AMY ROBACH HAS MORE. >> Reporter: FOR OVER 73 YEARS HE STOOD BY HIS QUEEN'S SIDE, HER MOST LOYAL AND FAITHFUL SUBJECT. PRINCE PHILLIP OF GREECE WAS AN 18-YEAR-OLD CADET IN THE BRITISH ROYAL NAVY WHEN A 13-YEAR-OLD PRINCESS ELIZABETH FIRST TOOK A SHINE TO HIM BACK IN 1939. THE TWO WERE MARRIED IN NOVEMBER OF 1947. FIVE YEARS LATER, ELIZABETH ASCENDED TO THE THRONE AND PHILIP GAVE UP HIS CAREER TO SUPPORT HIS QUEEN IN HIS DUTY. >> MY GRANDFATHER ASSISTED THE MILITARY AND THE NAVY. HE GAVE IT ALL UP TO DO HIS JOB AND BE THERE AND SUPPORT THE QUEEN. >> IT WAS PHILIP WHO ENCOURAGED THE QUEEN TO MAKE THAT FAMOUS SPEECH TO CELEBRATE DIANA AFTER GRIEVING BRITAIN ACCUSED HER OF BEING TOO STOIC, TOO ALOOF AND TOO ROYAL. >> IN GOOD TIMES AND BAD, SHE NEVER LOST HER CAPACITY TO SMILE AND LAUGH, NOR TO INSPIRE OTHERS WITH HER WARMTH AND KINDNESS. >> Reporter: AT ALL TIMES FORCED TO WALK TWO STEPS BEHIND ELIZABETH, BUT IN LIFE THEY WERE EQUAL PARTNERS. THEY HAD FOUR CHILDREN AND A LOVING ENDURING MARRIAGE. >> IT MUST HAVE BEEN QUITE DIFFICULT FOR HIM BEING IN THE SHADOWS, BEING THE SUPPORT. BUT HE DOES IT FANTASTICALLY WELL. HE'S NEVER COMPLAINED. >> IT'S OBVIOUS FROM ALL OF US AND IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY ELSE THAT SEES IT GOING ON, THE FACT THAT WITHOUT HIM, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD BE SLIGHTLY LOST, I THINK. >> Reporter: PHILIP'S ROLE AS THE MAN BEHIND THE THRONE DID NOT GO UNNOTICED. THE QUEEN HERSELF EVEN SPOKE OF IT ON THEIR 50th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY IN 1997. >> ALL TOO OFTEN I FEAR PRINCE PHILIP HAS HAD TO LISTEN TO ME SPEAKING. HE IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T TAKE EASILY THE COMPLIMENTS. BUT HE HAS QUITE SIMPLY BEEN MY STRENGTH AND STAY ALL THESE YEARS. AND I AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY OWE HIM A DEBT GREATER THAN HE WILL EVER CLAIM OR THAT WE SHALL EVER KNOW. >> OUR THANKS TO AMY ROBACH FOR THAT LOOK AT PRINCE PHILIP. MAGGIE IS OUTSIDE BUCKINGHAM PALACE RIGHT NOW. YOU'VE BEEN AT THE PALACE ALL DAY. WHAT'S THE REACTION BEEN LIKE THERE? >> DIANE, YEAH, WE WERE HERE WHEN THE NEWS BROKE. WE WATCHED THE FLAG BEING LOWERED TO HALF STAFF. IT'S GOING TO STAY THERE ON TOP OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE LIKE THAT UNTIL THE DAY AFTER PRINCE PHILIP'S FUNERAL, SETTING A STAGE OF WHAT'S EIGHT DAYS OF MOURNING HERE IN THE COUNTRY. YOU FEEL IT STANDING OUT HERE. YOU CAN SEE BEHIND ME THEY POSTED A NOTICE EARLIER TODAY OF HIS DEATH ON THE GATES THERE OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE. ALMOST IMMEDIATELY THERE WAS A STREAM OF PEOPLE COMING TO PAY THEIR RESPECTS. WE SAW SO MANY PEOPLE WITH FLOWERS. HUNDREDS OF FLOWERS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF THOSE GATES. RIGHT NOW JUST A LITTLE WAYS OFF IN THE DISTANCE, THE BELLS ARE TOILING FOR PRINCE PHILIP. 99 TIMES. ONE TIME FOR EVERY SINGLE YEAR HE LIVED. WHAT A FULL LIFE HE LIVED. THAT'S WHAT WE KEEP HEARING FROM PEOPLE AT THE PALACE. PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I THINK ARE KIND OF SHOCKED. YES, HE WAS 99 YEARS OLD. BUT HE'S BEEN SUCH A CONSTANT IN BRITAIN. THAT'S WHAT WE HEARD FROM PEOPLE. ONE MAN WE SPOKE WITH SAID HE WAS KIND OF EVERYONE'S GREAT GRANDFATHER IN THE UK. I THINK THAT'S WHY EVERYONE IS TAKING IT PERSONALLY TODAY. YES, HE STOOD BY THE QUEEN, HE WAS A PUBLIC FIGURE, BUT HE'S BEEN HERE IN THE COUNTRY AS A LEADER FOR DECADES. NOW I THINK PEOPLE ARE TAKING THE CHANCE TO LOOK BACK ON HIS LEGACY AND REMEMBER ALL THAT HE'S DONE. >> AND, MAGGIE, IT'S TERRY. A REMARKABLE LIFE, OF COURSE, LONG, HEALTHFUL UNTIL THE END. HE WAS SEEN IN PUBLIC LAST YEAR. HE WAS STILL RIDING HIS HORSE AND BUGGY, WHICH HE DID COMPETITIVELY. STILL DRIVING AFTER HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN. BUT WHEN I WAS OVER THERE FOR A FEW YEARS, TWO THINGS STRUCK ME ABOUT HIM. FIRST, YES, HE'S EVERYBODY'S GREAT GRANDFATHER WHO SAYS THE MOST CRINGE WORTHY THINGS. SOMETIMES RACIST, SEXIST, ALSO JUST AWKWARD. HE KIND OF SPOKE HIS MIND ALL THE TIME. SOMETIMES IT WAS PRETTY, SOMETIMES IT WASN'T. ALSO HE BASICALLY INVENTED MODERN MONARCHY. ITS SERVICE ASPECT. HE HAD NOTHING TO DO AS THE PRINCE CONSORT TO THE QUEEN. HE DEVELOPED THE PRINCE PHILIP CHARITIES. 400 OF THEM. THAT'S BEEN THE MODEL FOR THE SERVICE OF THE ROYAL FAMILY THERE AND AROUND THE WORLD, OTHER ROYAL FAMILIES EVER SINCE. AN INTERESTING CAREER HE HAD ASIDE FROM BEING A HUSBAND. >> MM-HMM. YEAH. YOU MENTIONED HIS PERSONALITY. ONE OF MY FAVORITE QUOTES FROM SOME ROYAL HISTORIANS HAVE CALLED HIM THE VINEGAR TO HER WINDSOR QUEEN. PEOPLE ALWAYS SAID THE TWOCOMPA PLAYED OFF EACH OTHER SO WELL. HE ALSO TOOK HIS SERVICE SERIOUSLY. YOU MENTIONED SOME OF THOSE GREAT PATRONSHIPS HE HAD. HE DID MORE THAN 20,000 SOLO ENGAGEMENTS. THAT'S A WILD NUMBER. MORE THAN 2,000 TRIPS IN THE UK AND ABROAD. WE HAVE TO MENTION, HE WAS ON THE FOREFRONT OF BEING AN ENVIRONMENTALIST, SOMETHING HE PASSED ON TO HIS SON AND GRANDSONS AS WELL. HE LEAVES BEHIND A RICH LEGACY OF GIVING BACK TO THE COUNTRY, IF NOT THE WORLD. >> SO, MAGGIE, WHAT WILL THE NEXT FEW DAYS AND WEEKS LOOK LIKE THERE IN THE UK? WHAT DO WE KNOW AT THIS POINT ABOUT THE FUNERAL SERVICES? >> YEAH. WE'RE STILL WAITING ON DETAILS. NORMALLY A ROYAL FUNERAL WOULD BE A HUGE EVENT COMMEMORATED WIDELY ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE KNOW THIS WILL BE DIDN'T. WE'RE STILL LIVING IN A PANDEMIC. HERE IN THE UK, WE'RE UNDER A STRICT LOCKDOWN. EVEN THINGS LIKE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAN ATTEND A WEDDING IS REGULATED. WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT WILL BE ALLOWED. AS OF NOW, WE DON'T BELIEVE IT WILL BE A STATE FUNERAL. THAT WAS HIS WISH NOT TO HAVE ONE. MOST LIKELY IT WILL BE A QUIETER EVENT THAN NORMAL. I HAVE TO BELIEVE, EVEN IF IT IS A QUIET FUNERAL, PEOPLE WILL MAKE A POINT TO CELEBRATE HIS LEGACY SOMEHOW IN SOME WAY, NOT ONLY HERE BUT AROUND THE WORLD. >> THEY DISPERSED TO THEIR CASTLES, AND PRINCE HARRY AND MEGHAN AND THEIR CHILDREN HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. IS PRINCE HARRY EXPECTED TO MAKE IT BACK FOR HIS GRANDFATHER'S FUNERAL? I KNOW THEY WERE VERY CLOSE. >> YOU'RE ASKING ALL OF THE HOT QUESTIONS TODAY. I THINK THAT'S WHAT EVERYONE IS ASKING NOW. WHEN WILL WE HEAR FROM THE ROYALS? WE DON'T EXPECT TO HEAR FROM ANYONE IN THE ROYAL FAMILY TODAY. SOME PEOPLE SPOKE OUT ONLINE. WE SAW A GREAT PHOTO OF PRINCE PHILIP WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER. WE SAW THE SUSSEX'S POSTING A STATEMENT THANKING HIM FOR HIS SERVICE. NOW THE BIG QUESTION, WILL HARRY AND MEGHAN COME BACK FOR HIS FUNERAL? RIGHT NOW WE DON'T KNOW. IT'S UP IN THE AIR. WE KNOW IF HARRY WERE TO COME BACK, HE BETTER COME SOON, BECAUSE THERE'S A FIVE-DAY QUARANTINE FOR ANYONE COMING FROM OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY TO THE UK. MAYBE THERE'S A DIPLOMATIC EXCUSE FOR HIM, WE'RE NOT SURE, BUT IT'S MESSY RIGHT NOW. THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. THERE'S ALSO THE POLITICS OF WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON. IT'S BEEN A COMPLICATED FEW MONTHS FOR THE ROYAL FAMILY. THERE'S TABLOIDS SPECULATING THAT HE WILL COME BACK. MEGHAN IS ALSO PREGNANT, DUE AT THE END OF THE SUMMER, SO A LOT IS UP IN THE AIR. >> MAGGIE OUT IN FRONT OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE THIS MORNING REPORTING ON THE DEATH OF PRINCE PHILLIP TODAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH SOME OF THE DAY'S OTHER TOP STORIES. >> I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. I'M NOT GUILTY. >> WHY THE FASCINATION WITH MURDER TRIALS? TO SEE WHAT'S OUT THERE. >> I KNOW IN MY HEART HE DID THIS. >> IT'S THE TIME OF SUSPICION. >> YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE TRUTH WILL BE DIFFICULT TO FIND UNLESS YOU TRY TO FIND IT. ♪ >> REALITY IS OUR COUNTRY CAN COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> YOU SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVEMENT ON THE MARCH. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> THE NAZIS, SKIN HEADS, IT'S A CYBER WAR. >> FROM KKK TO OKLAHOMA CITY, THE NEW DOCUMENTARY. THE NEW DOCUMENTARY. >> WE NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE. >> HOME GROWN HATE, THE WAR AMONG US. >> THIS IS A REAL WAKE-UP CALL. >> STREAMING NEW ON ABC NEWS LIVE. >> ADMIT IT. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW -- >> SEEMS TO CHANGE EVERY DAY. >> WHAT IS IT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW? NEED TO KNOW? >> TO NOT HELP YOU JUST GET THROUGH YOUR DAY -- >> BUT TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT. >> FEEL SMARTER. >> BETTER. >> FEEL HAPPIER. >> WELL, HOW ABOUT A THIRD HOUR OF "GOOD MORNING AMERICA"? >> IN THE AFTERNOON. >> GMA3. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. LUNCHTIME AT 1:00 EASTERN 12 CENTRAL AND PACIFIC ON ABC. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU. ♪ >> 24 HOURS, ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL. THE ABC NEWS ORIGINAL EXCLUSIVELY ON HULU. NOW STREAMING. WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE, SO MUCH ON THE LINE, MORE AMERICANS TURN HERE THAN ANY OTHER NEWSCAST. ABC NEWS, "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" WITH DAVID MUIR. >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST ACROSS ALL OF TELEVISION. >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS. LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREON APPLE POD CASTS. >> ROBIN ROBERTS, GEORGE ST STEPHA STEPHANOPOULOS, MICHAEL STRAHAN. WAKE UP WITH AMERICA'S MOST WATCHED MORNING SHOW. ABC'S "GOOD MORNING AMERICA." >> ABC NEWS HONORED FOR THE SECOND STRAIGHT YEAR WITH THE EDWARD R. MURRO AWARD. ABC NEWS, AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS SOURCE. >> WELCOME BACK. INVESTIGATORS IN SOUTH CAROLINA ARE LOOKING FOR A MOTIVE AFTER A MASS SHOOTING IN ROCK HILL. A DOCTOR, HIS WIFE, THEIR TWO GRANDKIDS AND A MAN WORKING AT THEIR HOUSE WERE KILLED. POLICE SAY THE ALLEGED SHOOTER, FORMER NFL PLAYER, PHILLIP ADAMS TOOK HIS OWN LIFE. WILL REEVE HAS THE LATEST. >> THE SEARCH FOR ANSWERS. AUTHORITIES TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT DROVE FORMER NFL PLAYER PHILLIP ADAMS TO BRUTALLY GUN DOWN SIX PEOPLE. KILLING FIVE. >> HOW MANY SHOTS DID YOU HEAR? >> ABOUT 20. IT'S AUTOMATIC. I THINK THERE'S TWO WORKERS OUTSIDE AND MISS LESLIE IS ON THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE. >> Reporter: A PROMINENT LOCAL DOCTOR, ROBERT LESLIE, HIS WIFE AND TWO GRANDCHILDREN. GUNNED DOWN IN THEIR HOME. OUTSIDE 38-YEAR-OLD JAMES LEWIS WHO HAD BEEN WORKING AT THE PROPERTY ALSO FOUND DEAD. ROBERT SHOOK, A COWORKER, SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. >> THE DESCRIPTION WE'RE GETTING IS A BLACK MALE WEARING BLACK CLOTHING CARRYING SOMETHING RED, POSSIBLY AUTOMATIC GUN. >> Reporter: EVIDENCE LEFT AT THE SCENE LED TO PHILIP ADAMS. AFTER AN HOURS-LONG STANDOFF, POLICE ENTERED THE HOUSE JUST AFTER 2:30 IN THE MORNING TO FIND ADAMS DEAD OF A SELF-INFLICTED GUNSHOT WOUND. >> INTERCEPTED BY PHILIP ADAMS. >> Reporter: ADAMS PLAYED FOR SIX TEAMS OVER THE COURSE OF FIVE YEARS, SUFFERING AT LEAST TWO CONCUSSIONS IN 2012. HE RETIRED IN 2015. ADAMS' FATHER TELLING A LOCAL STATION WCNC, HIS SON NEVER BOTHERED ANYBODY. >> ALL I CAN SAY, HE WAS A GOOD KID. I THINK THE FOOTBALL MESSED HIM UP. >> THE FAMILY RELEASED A STATEMENT SAYING IN PART WE DO NOT GRIEVE AS THOSE WITHOUT HOPE, HEARTS ARE BENT TOWARDS FORGIVENESS AND PEACE. OUR THANKS TO WILL REEVE FOR THAT REPORT. >>> NOW LET'S GO TO THE LATEST ON THE PANDEMIC. MORE THAN 112 MILLION VACCINE DOSES HAVE BEEN ADMINISTERED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S 20% OF THE POPULATION. BUT SOME VACCINATION SITES HAVE TEMPORARILY SHUT DOWN AFTER A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE REPORTED ADVERSE REACTIONS TO THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON SHOT. WHIT JOHNSON HAS MORE. >> Reporter: THE CDC FINDING NO ISSUES AT THIS VACCINATION SITE. IT WAS PAUSED EARLIER WHEN 18 PEOPLE REPORTED SYMPTOMS OF NAUSEA AND DIZZINESS IN CONNECTION TO THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON SINGLE-DOSE VACCINE. FOUR WENT TO THE HOSPITAL FOR OBSERVATION. VACCINATIONS PAUSED OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION AFTER A BUNCH OF PEOPLE AT UNC CHAPEL HILL REPORTED FEELING FAINT OR LIGHTHEADED. JUST A DAY BEFORE, A VACCINATION SITE IN COLORADO ALSO HALTED TEMPORARILY AFTER 11 PEOPLE OUT OF 1,700 WHO GOT SHOTS THAT DAY HAD MILD REACTIONS. TWO WENT TO THE HOSPITAL FOR OBSERVATION AND WERE RELEASED THE SAME DAY. THE OTHER NINE WERE GIVEN JUICE AND WATER. >> PEOPLE ARE ASKED TO STAY 15 TO 30 MINUTES AFTER VACCINATION TO BE OBSERVED. ALL OF THESE OCCURRENCES WERE IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME. SO I THINK THE VACCINATION WAS LIKELY SAFE AND EFFECTIVE. >> THE CDC INSISTING A VACCINE ANALYSIS HAS FOUND NO REASON FOR CONCERN. SEVERE SIDE EFFECTS TO THE J&J, MODERNA AND PFIZER VACCINES ARE EXTREMELY RARE. SERIOUS REACTIONS HAPPENING IN JUST 2 TO 5 OUT OF EVERY 1 MILLION PEOPLE VACCINATED IN THE U.S. THE PACE OF VACCINATIONS RAMPING UP, BUT DOCTORS WARNING MANY YOUNG UNVACCINATED AMERICANS ARE AT RISK AND CONTRIBUTING TO THE SPREAD OF DISEASE. >> YOUNG KIDS, PARTICULARLY THOSE 8th GRADE AND YOUNGER ARE SPREADING THIS VIRUS LIKE NEVER BEFORE. >> OUR THANKS TO WHIT JOHNSON FOR THAT REPORT. >>> EARLIER TODAY ON GMA, S CECILIA VEGA TALKED ABOUT THE VACCINES AND WHEN THEY SHOULD BE A CONCERN. >> THESE PAUSES IN VACCINATION SITES, WE SHOULDN'T BE CONCERNED. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONCERNING TO FOLKS WHO HEAR ABOUT THIS STORY. IN. >> GOOD MORNING. THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON. I SEE THIS AS THE SYSTEM WORKING. WE ARE VACCINATING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE A DAY. YOU'LL HAVE THINGS LIKE THIS. IT'S GREAT THEY TOOK A PAUSE, EVERYTHING IS OKAY AND RESUMED AFTER THAT INVESTIGATION. I THINK THINGS ARE GOING MUCH BETTER THAN I EXPECTED. >> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE COMFORTED BY THAT. A LOT OF FOLKS ARE GETTING THEIR VACCINES, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE HEADING OUT TODAY AND THIS WEEKEND TO GET THE VACCINES. WALK US THROUGH WHAT THE POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS ARE. WHAT ARE THE SIDE EFFECTS WE SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT? >> ABSOLUTELY. EVERY VACCINE, EVERY MEDICINE WE TAKE HAS SIDE EFFECTS. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE WORLD AT ALL THAT HAS NO SIDE EFFECTS AT ALL. WHAT I EXPECT PEOPLE TO HAVE AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM TRIALS MOST PEOPLE GET A SORE ARM, STARTS ABOUT 8, 12 HOURS AFTER THE VACCINATION AND CAN LAST FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. THAT'S PRETTY COMMON. WE DO ESPECIALLY AFTER THE SECOND SHOT FOR ABOUT 24 HOURS PEOPLE CAN HAVE CHILLS, SOME HAVE LOW GRADE FEVERS, BODY ACHES. THAT'S JUST YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM REVVED UP AFTER THE SECOND SHOT. THIS STUFF VARIES. MOST PEOPLE DO VERY WELL. THE ONLY THING WE DO WATCH FOR CAREFULLY IS THAT WITH MODERNA AND PFIZER WE'VE SEEN ABOUT A COUPLE PEOPLE OUT OF A MILLION SO VERY RARE HAVE A SEVERE ALLERGIC REACTION. USUALLY IN PEOPLE WHO HAD A HISTORY OF SEVERE ALLERGIC REACTIONS TO WE OBSERVE FOR THAT AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE NOT SUFFERING FROM THAT. OTHERWISE THESE VACCINATIONS ARE INCREDIBLY SAFE. >> DR. JHA, JUST QUICKLY WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE TURNING THE CORNER HERE. ANYTHING THAT CONCERNS YOU WITH WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, WHETHER IT'S THE SURGES OR THESE VARIANTS? >> YEAH, I HAVE TO SAY I'M WORRIED ABOUT HALF A DOZEN OR SO STATES WHERE CASES ARE REALLY RISING PRETTY QUICKLY. MICHIGAN OBVIOUSLY THE MOST PROMINENT OF THEM. WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING RIGHT NOW IN PLACES LIKE MICHIGAN IS WE SHOULD BE SURGING TESTS, SURGING VACCINATIONS, HELPING STATES GET OVER THIS. WE'LL BE IN A MUCH BETTER SPACE IN MAY BUT WORRIED ABOUT THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, CERTAINLY IN THOSE STATES WHERE CASES ARE RISING QUICKLY. >> OUR THANKS TO DR. JHA FOR THAT. >>> HERE'S SOME OF THE OTHER TOP STORIES WE'RE FOLLOWING. KENTUCKY IS IMPLEMENTING A PARTIAL BAN ON NO-KNOCK SCHL WARR SEARCH WARRANTS. THERE CAN ONLY BE NO-KNOCK RAIDS IF THERE'S CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT THE OFFENDER WOULD BE VIOLENT IF CONVICTED. THIS COMES AFTER THE SHOOTING DEATH OF BREONNA TAYLOR. >>> AND THE FAMILY OF RAPPER DMX ANNOUNCED HE PASSED AWAY AT A NEW YORK HOSPITAL. THE HIP-HOP ICON WHOSE GIVEN NAME WAS EARL SIMMONS WAS ON LIFE SUPPORT AND IN INTENSIVE CARE AFTER GOING INTO CARDIAC ARREST LAST WEEK. HE SURGED ON TO THE SCENE IN THE LATE '90s. HE WENT ON TO RECORD FOUR MORE NUMBER ONE ALBUMS AND STARRED IN FILMS ALONGSIDE JET LI, STEVEN SEAGAL AND ALIYAH. >>> ADAM KINSINGER IS CALLING FOR MATT GAETZ TO RESIGN. A FEDERAL INVESTIGATION IS LOOKING INTO WHETHER GAETZ AND AN ASSOCIATE GAVE THINGS OF VALUE TO WOMEN THEY HAD SEX WITH AND WHETHER GAETZ HAD AN INAPPROPRIATE RELATIONSHIP WITH A 17-YEAR-OLD. A POTENTIAL KEY WITNESS IN THE INVESTIGATION COULD BE COOPERATING WITH INVESTIGATORS. GAETZ INSISTS HE'S DONE NOTHING WRONG. >>> AND EVACUATIONS ARE UNDER WAY AFTER A VOLCANIC ERUPTION ROCKED THE CARIBBEAN ISLAND OF ST. VINCENT, SENDING ASH 20,000 FEET IN THE AIR. FOUR CRUISE SHIPS ARE SET TO PICK UP PEOPLE FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES AND NEIGHBORING ISLANDS HAVE OFFERED SHELTER FOR SOME OF THE 16,000 PEOPLE NEAR THAT VOLCANO. SO FAR NO CASUALTIES REPORTED. >>> DAY TEN OF THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN IS SET TO RESUME SHORTLY. WE'LL HAVE A LOOK AT WHAT TO EXPECT AFTER THE BREAK. >> WE'LL GUIDE YOU THROUGH IT ALL TONIGHT. >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> WE TELL ALL OUR PATIENTS HOW MUCH THEY'RE LOVED. WE HOLD THEIR HANDS. >> WE'RE SHOWING OUR LOVE FOR THE ICU STAFF. >> THEY'RE THE HEROES IN THIS. >> ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. NUMBER ONE IN THE MORNING, NUMBER ONE IN THE EVENING WITH AMERICA'S MOST-WATCHED NEWSCAST. NUMBER ONE IN LATE NIGHT VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE NEWS MAGAZINE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS. NUMBER ONE IN POLITICS. ACROSS THIS HISTORIC ELECTION VERSUS THE COMPETITION. THE NUMBER ONE DAY-TIME TALK SHOW. AND NUMBER ONE IN STREAMING NEWS. ABC NEWS IS AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS. >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS. LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREE ON APPLE PODCASTS. >> ABC NEWS HONORED FOR THE SECOND STRAIGHT YEAR WITH THE EDWARD R. MURRO AWARD. ABC NEWS, AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE NEWS SOURCE. >> THIS IS GMA 3, WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. LUNCHTIME ON ABC. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> REALITY IS OUR COUNTRY CAN COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> WHITE LIVES MATTER. >> YOU SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVEMENT ON THE MARCH. >> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US. >> THE NAZIS, SKIN HEADS, IT'S A WAR. >> FROM KKK TO OKLAHOMA CITY, THE NEW DOCUMENTARY. >> WE NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE. >> HOME GROWN HATE, THE WAR AMONG US. STREAMING NOW ON ABC NEWS LIVE. >>> FRIDAY NIGHTS, 9:00, 8:00 CENTRAL. TRUE CRIME, CINEMATIC, REAL-LIFE DRAUM DRAMA. STUNNING, THE UNTHINKABLE. FOLLOW THE CLUES, THE HUNT, TRUE CRIME, FRIDAY NIGHTS ON ABC. >> WE MARCH TOGETHER. >> THE MOST POWERFUL STORIES OF OUR TIME. "NIGHTLINE." >>> IN THE SPACE OF THREE DAYS, WE HAD FIVE STUDENTS DEAD. >> A SERIAL KILLER IS ON THE LOOSE. >> WE LIVE IN THE BIBLE BELT. THINGS LIKE THAT DON'T HAPPEN HERE. >> AND THE ONE PIECE OF HAUNTING EVIDENCE. THIS AUDIO CASSETTE CHANGED EVERYTHING. NOW NEW, EMOTIONAL ISSUES FROM THOSE WHO WERE THERE. >> THERE WAS AN AUDIBLE GASP. >> PURE EVIL. >> 20/20 ON ABC. >>> WELCOME BACK TO OUR COVERAGE OF THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN, FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER FOR THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD. IT'S DAY TEN. JURORS HAD BEEN HEARING ABOUT ONE OF THE CRUCIAL QUESTIONS IN THE CASE, EXACTLY, MEDICALLY HOW DID GEORGE FLOYD DIE. PROSECUTORS PUTTING ON EVIDENCE AROUND THAT. WE GO TO MINNEAPOLIS WHERE WE'RE COVERING EVERY ASPECT OF THE TRIAL OF OFFICER CHAUVIN. YOU'RE IN THE CITY RIGHT NOW, STEPS AWAY FROM THE COURTROOM. GIVE US SOME COLOR. WHAT ARE YOU SEEING THERE? HOW DID THE JURORS REACT TO THE TESTIMONY TODAY? >> THEY HAVE BEEN FURIOUSLY TAKING NOTES WHEN THE DEFENSE ASKED DR. THOMAS ABOUT HYPOXIA AND DRUG USE. KEY PARTS OF THE CASE. THEY TEAMED SO FOCUS THE MOST WHEN THE PROSECUTION REDIRECTED AND ASKED DR. THOMAS ABOUT HIS HEART CONDITION, HIS HEART DAMAGE AND HER ASSESSMENT THAT HE DID NOT DIE FROM A HEART ATTACK. SOME OTHER COLOR, AS THE JURY LEFT THE ROOM, THE LAWYERS STARTED TALKING AND DEREK CHAUVIN MADE EYE CONTACT WITH ONE OF THE FAMILY REPRESENTATIVES IN THE ROOM. HE WALKS OVER TO HER, OF COURSE ALL OF US AROUND THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD WONDERING WHAT IS GOING THROUGH HIS HEAD AT THIS VERY MOMENT. THE MAN AT THE CENTER OF THIS ENTIRE CASE RIGHT NOW. TERRY? >> THANKS. >>> I WANT TO GO TO LISA FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE ON WHAT WE MIGHT HEAR TODAY. WITH DR. THOMAS ON THE STAND. WE HEARD MORE ABOUT THE PRONE POSITION, WHEN SOMEONE IS ON THEIR STOMACH. WE HEARD FROM BOTH MEDICAL PERTS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERTS ABOUT HOW THEY'RE TRAINED ON THE DANGERS OF HAVING SOMEONE CUFFED ON THE GROUND ON THEIR STOMACH FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME. NELSON SEEMED TO WANT TO PULL ON THAT THREAD A BIT WITH DR. THOMAS. IS THAT A FORESHADOWING OF WHAT WE MIGHT HEAR FROM DR. BAKER LATER IN TESTIMONY? >> I'M CERTAIN IT IS. WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THAT A PROSECUTOR'S JOB IS TO CONVEY THE FACTS AND THE INFORMATION AND THE TESTIMONY THROUGH THESE WITNESSES IN A DETAILEDMETHODIC ICAL WAY. ON THE FLIP SIDE, THE DEFENSE PULLED OUT SOME KEY ISSUES. HAVING SAID THAT, I STILL STAND BY MY POSITION THAT I DON'T THINK THAT WILL CARRY THE DAY. THERE WILL BE A LOT OF TESTIMONY ABOUT THE PRONE POSITION, ULTIMATELY THE JURY CANNOT IGNORE AND ESCAPE THE FACT THAT WHILE IN THE PRONE POSITION, OFFICER CHAUVIN WAS ON MR. FLOYD'S NECK FOR NINE MINUTES. I DON'T THINK ANY REASONABLE PERSON CAN CONCLUDE ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT WAS A SUBSTANTIAL CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO MR. FLOYD'S DEATH. >> THANK YOU. THAT VISCERAL, HORRIFIC IMAGE OF THE KNEE ON THE NECK FOR 9:29, THAT'S THE CENTRAL EVIDENCE IN THE CASE. LET ME BRING IN TAMIKA McCOY, WHO TRIED A LOT OF DIFFERENT CASES ON THE PROSECUTION AND THE DEFENSE SIDE. I WANT TO ASK YOU, RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS CASE, THERE'S A DISPUTE ABOUT THE CAUSE -- THE ACTUAL CAUSE OF DEATH. THE AUTOPSY DID NOT DETERMINE, IT DETERMINED IT WAS A HOMICIDE, THAT HE DIED IN THE HANDS -- AT THE HANDS OF OTHERS, THEY DID NOT DETERMINE -- THE MEDICAL EXAMINER DID NOT DETERMINE THAT IT WAS THROUGH OXYGEN DEPRIVATION FROM THAT KNEE ON THE NECK. DOES THAT REMAIN DESPITE THE VISCERAL IMPACT OF SO MUCH TESTIMONY, DOES THAT REMAIN A PROBLEM FOR PROSECUTORS? >> IT IS A PROBLEM FOR THE PROSECUTION. IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE DEFENSE SEEKS TO EXPLOIT. THAT'S WHY THE TESTIMONY OF DR. THOMAS THIS MORNING WAS SO CRITICAL. WHAT SHE DID WAS TO GIVE AN EXPLANATION IN A WAY THAT THE JURORS COULD DIGEST OF WHAT THOSE TERMS MEAN AND COMBINE THAT WITH THE VIDEO EVIDENCE THAT SHE DETERMINED WAS VOLUMINOUS AND FROM VARYING ANGLES THAT HELPED THEM TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE THE ULTIMATE CAUSE OF DEATH. DURING THAT, THE BEHAVIORS, THE INTENTIONAL ACTS OF OTHER PEOPLE IS WHAT SUBSTANTIALLY CAUSED GEORGE FLOYD TO DIE. NOW, WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CULMINATION OF ALL OF THE EXPERTS THAT WE HEARD FROM. WHAT WE HAVE IS HOW IMPORTANT AND PIVOTAL THOSE TESTIMONIES HAVE BEEN, EVEN THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY HIMSELF ECHOED THE EXPERT YESTERDAY, DR. TOOEB TOB SAID GEORGE FLOYD HAD ZERO OXYGEN IN HIS BODY AND YET DEREK CHAUVIN REMAINED ON HIS NECK FOR THREE MINUTES AFTER THAT DETERMINATION. ALL OF THESE EXPERT WITNESSES ARE EXPLAINING WHAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER DID NOT FERRET OUT IN HIS FINAL REPORT. >> EARLIER WE TALKED TO THE FLOYD FAMILY ATTORNEY, HE SAID THE PATHOLOGIST HIRED BY THE FAMILY MAY TAKE THE STAND TODAY AS WELL. WALTER, WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AS YOU SEE MORE AND MORE MEDICAL EXPERTS TAKE THE STAND FOR THE PROSECUTION IN THIS CASE? >> I'M LOOKING TO SEE EXACTLY HOW WELL THEY CONNECT WITH THE JURY. IF YOU CAN THINK BACK TO DAY ONE, HOW POWERFUL AND RIVETING THE TESTIMONY WAS FROM WITNESSES, FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT AND A HUMAN STANDPOINT, THAT SEEMS LIKE FOREVER NOW. RIGHT NOW WE'RE GETTING INTO THE CRUX OF THE MATTER. THESE EXPERT WITNESSES WHO HAVE THIS SPECIALIZED KNOWLEDGE BEYOND THE KIN OF THE AVERAGE PERSON, THEY WILL BE RELIED UPON HEAVILY. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING AND HOW WELL THEY'RE CONNECTING, THAT'S USUALLY THE SIDE YOU CAN PICK WHO WILL WIN. >> DR. THOMAS CLEANED UP SOME AREAS THAT DR. BAKER LEFT UNDONE. DR. THOMAS I SUSPECT IS MORE CHARISMATIC OR PERSONABLE THAN DR. BAKER WILL BE. I THINK THEY DID THAT PURPOSEFULLY, ARTFULLY AND APPROPRIATELY BECAUSE HE CREATED THE ULTIMATE OPINION AS TO CAUSE OF DEATH. THE DEFENSE HAS YET TO PUT ON A CASE. WE UNDERSTAND THAT. SOME HAY HAS BEEN MADE -- THERE'S STILL YET ANOTHER ANALYSIS, EVEN THOUGH DR. THOMAS' TESTIMONY, IT RELATES BACK TO THE VIDEO, THE TIME, THAT HORRIFIC SCENE WE HAVE OF 9:29. THE QUESTION THAT ULTIMATELY HAS TO BE ASKED SECONDARILY, EVEN IF HE WERE ON HIS NECK, WAS THERE SUBSTANTIAL HARM I BELIEVE IS THE LANGUAGE, SUBSTANTIAL ENOUGH HARM THAT COULD CAUSE DEATH? I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU HEARD FROM MR. NELSON POINTING OUT THE LACK OF INJURY THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE IN AN ASPHYXIAN-TYPE SITUATION, BRUISES TO THE NECK, BACK, SHOULDER. EVEN THE BODY WEIGHT OF MR. CHAUVIN. I THINK YOU'LL HEAR THAT SURPRISINGLY TO MOST AMERICANS, HE'S ABOUT 140 POUNDS. >> THANK YOU, WALTER. THE ABSENCE OF THAT EVIDENCE WILL BE CRITICAL BECAUSE IT COMES FROM THE AUTOPSY. WE'RE BACK TO HEAR FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, IT SEEMS, WHO IS ANDREW BAKER, HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER. SO, WE HAVE ESTABLISHED HERE, LESS ILISA, THAT THERE IS THIS CONFLICT BETWEEN THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, THE PERSON WHO WORKS FOR THE PEOPLE AND IS CHARGED BY THE PEOPLE TO DETERMINE CAUSE OF DEATH. HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH THE PROSECUTION ON IT. SO DO YOU THINK PROSECUTORS HERE ALMOST HAVE TO QUESTION HIM AS A HOSTILE WITNESS? >> WELL, I THINK WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IS BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL. THEY NEED TO LEAD HIM THROUGH, AGAIN, IN A DETAILED, METHODI AL WAY. AS AN EXPERT, YOU KNOW, THESE CONCEPTS ARE OUTSIDE THE COMMON KNOWLEDGE OF JURORS. THESE CONCEPTS NEED TO BE EXPLAINED IN DETAIL WITH AS MUCH AS DETAIL AS POSSIBLE. >> ALREADY. THERE IS THE PROSECUTOR JERRY BLACK WELL CALLING DR. ANDREW BAKER. THIS IS REALLY ONE OF THE CRITICAL WITNESSES IN THIS TRIAL. >>> DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH? >> I DO. >> HAVE A SEAT. >> IF WE COULD BEGIN BY HAVING YOU GIVE YOUR FULL NAME? >> ANDREW MICHAEL BAKER. >> MR. BLACK WELL? >> THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. GOOD AFTERNOON, DR. BAKER. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. >> BEFORE WE -- FIRST OF ALL, YOU CONDUCTED THE YOAUTOPSY ON . GEORGE FLOYD? >> I DID. >> BEFORE WE GET INTO THE SPECIFICS OF THE AUTOPSY, LET'S EXPLORE YOUR BACKGROUND A BIT. YOU'RE THE CHIEF HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT IT MEANS TO BE THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER IN HENNEPIN COUNTY? >> I'VE BEEN THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER FOR HENNEPIN COUNTY SINCE 2004. I'M ACTUALLY THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER FOR HENNEPIN, DAKOTA AND SCOTT COUNTIES. WE COVER ABOUT A THIRD OF THE STATE. FALLS WITHIN OUR CATCHMENT AREA. BEING THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER MEANS I SUPERVISE THE REST OF THE STAFF, IN PARTICULAR MY OTHER PHYSICIANS. I HAVE SIX OTHER DOCTORS AS WELL AS A DOCTOR IN TRAINING THAT WORK UNDER ME. >> BEFORE BECOMING THE CHIEF, YOU WERE THE ASSISTANT CHIEF. >> CORRECT. >> AND THAT WAS IN ROUGHLY 2002. >> CORRECT. I WAS THE ASSISTANT CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER FOR TWO YEARS. >> ALL-IN, IT'S BEEN GOING ON 19 YEARS AS EITHER ASSISTANT CHIEF OR THE CHIEF. >> CORRECT. >> WHAT DID YOU DO BEFORE JOINING THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE? >> ARE YOU ASKING ME TO GO BACK TO MY EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND OR JUST POST GRADUATE TRAINING. >> MAYBE TO THE AIR FORCE. >> OH, PRIOR TO COMING TO HENNEPIN COUNTY FROM 1998 TO 2002, I WAS A MAJOR ON ACTIVE DUTY IN THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE. I SERVED AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. AT THAT TIME WE WERE HEADQUARTERED IN THE WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA. >> ARE YOU BOARD CERTIFIED IN ANY AREAS? >> I AM. >> WOULD YOU TELL US WHICH ONE? >> I'M BOARD CERTIFIED IN ANN T ANATOMIC AND CLINICAL PATHOLOGY. >> WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS IS? >> YES, THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS IS THE PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR PEOPLE WHO DO WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING. I WANT TO SAY WE HAVE ABOUT 800, 900 MEMBERS. MANY OF THOSE ARE FELLOWS LIKE ME, MEANING THEY'RE FULLY BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF OTHER MEMBERSHIP CATEGORIES FOR INVESTIGATORS, ADMINISTRATIVE PERSONNEL AND SUPPORT PERSONNEL IN THE PROFESSION. >> NOW, YOU ARE A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS. >> YES, I AM. >> IN FACT, AT LEAST AS OF TO DATE, YOU'RE THE YOUNGEST PRESIDENT OR WERE THE YOUNGEST PRESIDENT EVER TO HOLD THAT POSITION WITH THE AMNE. >> I DON'T KNOW THAT'S TRUE. I WILL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT, COUNSELOR. I DID NOT KNOW THAT. >> YOU HAVE BEEN THE PRESIDENT? >> YES, I HAVE. >> LET'S MOVE TO THE SPECIFIC AUTOPSY OF MR. FLOYD. COULD YOU GIVE US SOME SENSE OF WHAT YOU KNEW ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING HIS DEATH BEFORE YOU STARTED YOUR WORK ON MR. FLOYD? >> YES. SO I WAS MADE AWARE THAT MR. FLOYD HAD BECOME UNCONSCIOUS WHILE IN POLICE CUSTODY. HE HAD BEEN TRANSPORTED TO HENNEPIN HEALTH CARE, THAT IS WHERE HE WAS PRONOUNCED DEAD. I BELIEVE AT THE TIME I STARTED THE EXAMINATION, MY STAFF WAS PROBABLY STILL WORKING TO CONFIRM MR. FLOYD'S IDENTITY AND PROPERLY NOTIFY HIS NEXT OF KEN. THAT'S THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION I HAD. >> HAD YOU SEEN ANY OF THE VIDEOS AT THE TIME YOU STARTED YOUR WORK? >> I HAD NOT. I WAS AWARE THAT ONE VIDEO HAD GONE VIRAL ON THE INTERNET, BUT INTENTIONAL CHOSE NOT TO LOOK AT THAT UNTIL I LOOKED AT MSR. FLOYD. I DID NOT WANT TO GO IN WITH ANY BIASED NOTIONS. >> SO IT WAS SEVERAL DAYS AFTER YOU PERFORMED THE AUTOPSY THAT YOU SAW THE VIDEOS? >> ONE VIDEO I SAW SHORTLY AFTER THE AUTOPSY. THAT'S THE ONE THAT MOST OF THE PUBLIC HAD SEEN THROUGH FACEBOOK OR OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA. THE OTHER VIDEOS, SUCH AS THE CUP SURVEILLANCE VIDEO, AND THE BODY-WORN CAMERA VIDEOS I DID NOT SEE UNTIL THREE, FOUR DAYS AFTER THE AUTOPSY. >> COULD YOU, DR. BAKER, GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF HOW IT IS YOU CONDUCT AUTOPSIES? WHAT'S YOUR APPROACH TO THEM? >> SURE. SO IN A CASE THAT'S BELIEVED TO BE A HOMICIDE OR A POTENTIAL HOMICIDE, THERE'S A FEW MORE STEPS INVOLVED THAN A TYPICAL NATURAL DEATH OR AN ACCIDENTAL DEATH. WE START EVERY EXAM WITH A VERY THOROUGH EXTERNAL EXAMINATION OF THE BODY AND IN AN AS-IS CONDITION. MEANING THE MEDICAL DEVICES ARE STILL IN PLACE. IF THE DECEDENT HAD CLOTHING ON, THAT CLOTHING IS STILL ON THE BODY. ALL OF THAT COULD BE EVIDENCE TO US AS THE MEDICAL EXAMINERS. IN MANY CASES WE WILL COLLECT TRACE EVIDENCE. FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE DECEDENTS FINGERNAILS ARE LONG ENOUGH, WE WILL COLLECT FINGERNAIL CLIPPINGS, PULLED HEAD HAIRS IN CASE THOSE ARE NEEDED TO MATCH TO ANYTHING. IT WOULDN'T APPLY IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE, BUT IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES WE SHOOT A FAIR NUMBER OF X-RAYS BEFORE THE YOAUTOPSY STARTS IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR BULLETS, STAB WOUNDS, BROKEN KNIFE TIPS. ONCE ALL OF THAT IS DONE, WE SET THE CLOTHING ASIDE, WE CAREFULLY REMOVE THE MEDICAL DEVICES AND THEN WE EXAMINE THE BODY AGAIN FROM HEAD TO TOE, FRONT TO BACK. WE'RE DOCUMENTING THIS WITH COPIOUS PHOTOGRAPHS AS WE GO. THE FINAL STEP IN THE EXTERNAL EXAMINATION IS WE CLEAN THE BODY VERY, VERY THOROUGHLY. WE DON'T WANT ANY BLOOD, ANY FOREIGN MATERIAL, PLANT MATERIAL ANYTHING ON THE BODY TO OBSCURE THE INJURIES OR DISEASES WE'RE LOOKING FOR. WE AGAIN PHOTOGRAPH THE BODY HEAD TO TOE FRONT AND BACK. ONCE THAT PART OF THE EXAM IS DONE, WE PROCEED TO THE INTERNAL EXAM, WHICH IS WHAT MOST LAY PEOPLE WOULD THINK OF WHEN THEY HEAR THE WORD AUTOPSY. WE MADE A SET OF CAREFUL INCISIONS ON THE BODY THAT ALLOW US TO REMOVE ALL OF THE ORGANS ONE BY ONE SO WE CAN LOOK FOR EVIDENCE OF NATURAL DISEASE, INTERNAL EVIDENCE OF INJURY. WHILE DOING THAT WE'RE COLLECTING SPECIMENS FOR TOXICOLOGY, TYPICALLY BLOOD AND URINE. WE REMOVE ALL THE ORGANS FROM THE TIP OF THE TONG TO THE BLADDER. WE REMOVE THE BRAIN AND THE STRUCTURES AROUND THE NECK LOOKING FOR INJURY OR DISEASE. IN A CASE LIKE MR. FLOYD'S, THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL STEPS THAT WE WOULD TAKE. FOR EXAMPLE IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE, I DID MAKE INCISIONS OF HIS WRISTS AND DISSECT AROUND THE SKIN UNDERNEATH TO LOOK FOR EVIDENCE OF WHAT WE WOULD CALL SUB CUTANEOUS BRUISING OR BRUISING UNDER THE SKIN FROM THE HANDCUFFS APPLIED. [ INAUDIBLE ]. >> OVERRULED. >> PLEASE CONTINUE. >> AND THEN THE LAST THING I WAS GOING TO SAY, ALSO IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE, I DID MAKE A SPECIAL INCISION FROM THE BACK OF HIS HEAD DOWN TO HIS BUTTOCKS, AND I DISSECTED UNDERNEATH HIS SKIN OUT TO THE SIDES OF HIS NECK AND TO HIS SHOULDERS AND FLANKS. AND YOU MIGHT ASK WHY WE WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE ANSWER IS BECAUSE SOMETIMES FRESH BRUISES CAN BE DIFFICULT TO SEE IN SOME PEOPLE, SO WE LOOK UNDERNEATH THE SKIN TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE NOT MISSED SOMETHING. AGAIN, THOSE LAST FEW STEPS WOULDN'T BE PART OF A TYPICAL AUTOPSY, BUT IN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE THIS, IT'S A GENERALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE THAT WE DO THAT. >> DR. BAKER, IS THE AUTOPSY PART OF A BROADER DEATH INVESTIGATION? >> YES. THE AUTOPSY IS JUST ONE PIECE OF THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S DEATH INVESTIGATION. >> COULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE UMBRELLA? WHAT'S THE DEATH INVESTIGATION ENTAIL OVERALL? >> THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S ULTIMATE MISSION IS TO ASCERTAIN CAUSE OF DEATH AND MANNER OF DEATH. THE AUTOPSY IS JUST ONE COMPONENT OF THAT. IT HAS A GREAT DEAL TO DO TO INFORM THE CAUSE OF DEATH AND MANNER OF DEATH, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO KNOW THE DECEDENTS PAST MEDICAL HISTORY. WE NEED TO GET AHOLD OF THE DECEDENT'S NEXT OF KIN TO SEE IF THE DECEDENT COULD BE A DONOR. FAMILY HISTORY. WE WILL CONTACT PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS AND GET HOSPITAL RECORDS. IF AN AMBULANCE WAS DISPATCHED AND TOOK THEM TO THE HOSPITAL, WE'LL GET THE AMBULANCE RUN SHEET AS PART OF OUR INVESTIGATION BECAUSE TO GIVE THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH RIGHT YOU NEED TO ASSEMBLE ALL OF THOSE THINGS FOR THE WHOLE PICTURE. >> LET'S GO BACK TO THE AUTOPSY ASPECT OF IT. HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO HAVE A DETAILED DOCUMENTATION OF WHAT YOU DO? >> IN TERMS OF THE AUTOPSY? >> YES, SIR. >> IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE AUTOPSY BE VERY DETAILED. PARTICULARLY IF THE DEATH IS POTENTIALLY A HOMICIDE. OBVIOUSLY IT COULD END UP IN COURT AND THE WORK YOU'RE DOING WOULD BE EVIDENCE. >> AND DO YOU CREATE WHAT WE MIGHT REFER TO AS A ROBUST DATA SET DOCUMENTING WHAT YOU DO? >> YES. >> WHAT IS ALL INCLUDED IN THAT? >> WHEN I USE THE TERM ROBUST DATA SET, WHAT I REALLY MEAN IS I HAVE DICTATED THE MOST DETAILED AUTOPSY REPORT THAT I CAN. DESCRIBING ALL THE SCARS, ALL THE TATTOOS, ALL THE BIRTH MARKS, ALL THE INJURIES, IN MANY CASES IT'S THE PERTINENT NEGATIVES, MEANING THE LACK OF INJURY, PLACES WHERE YOU MIGHT EXPECT TO SEE A INJURY BUT YOU DON'T, ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE CAREFULLY DICTATED IN A NARRATIVE AUTOPSY REPORT. BUT THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, YOU HAVE TO TAKE COPIOUS PHOTOGRAPHY AS WELL. MY GOAL IS TO CREATE A SET OF PHOTOS SO ROBUST THAT ANOTHER PATHOLOGIST COULD TAKE MY SET OF PHOTOS AND FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN THERE DURING THE AUTOPSY. THEY COULD LOOK AT THE WORK AND REACH THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS. THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, BECAUSE IT'S IN THE PHOTOS. >> IN THE CASE OF MR. GEORGE FLOYD, THAT'S WHAT YOU DID. >> THAT WAS CERTAINLY MY GOAL, YES. >> YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT, I WILL ASK DR. BAKER TO IDENTIFY THE TOTAL GRAPHS FROM THE AUTOPSY. I STILL HAVE THEM HERE IN HARD COPY. FIRST DR. BAKER. DR. BAKER, I HANDED YOU A NUMBER OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT SHOULD HAVE EXHIBIT NUMBERS 186, 235, 185, 236, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192. I'LL REPRESENT TO YOU THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE. >> OKAY. >> IF YOU COULD JUST LOOK THROUGH THE SET AND JUST CONFIRM FOR THE RECORD THAT THOSE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT YOU TOOK DURING YOUR AUTOPSY OF MR. GEORGE FL FLOYD. >> THESE ARE, IN FACT, AUTOPSY PHOTOGRAPHS OF MR. FLOYD, AND THEY WERE TAKEN BY ME. >> I WOULD LIKE TO REDISTRIBUTE THEM TO THE JURY, YOUR HONOR. >> PROSECUTOR JERRY BLACKWELL HANDING THE JURY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE AUTOPSY. THE JURORS WILL FOLLOW ALONG AS THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, ANDREW BAKER AND JARED BLACKWELL GO THROUGH THE AUTOPSY OF GEORGE FLOYD. IT WAS EXTENSIVE. REMEMBER, THE PROSECUTION AND THE MEDICAL EXAMINER DISAGREE ON WHAT KILLED GEORGE FLOYD. YOU'LL LOOK FOR SIGNS OF THAT. IT MAY BE THESE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT JERRY BLACKWELL THINKS BOLSTER'S THE PROSECUTION. YOU CAN BET ERIC NELSON WILL HAVE OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS AND OTHER EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE. ONE THING AS YOU LOOK AT DEREK CHAUVIN THERE, AS YOU HEARD FROM OUR REPORTER ON THE SCENE, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THIS TRIAL, IN THE FAMILY SEATS THERE WAS SOMEONE THERE FOR DEREK CHAUVIN. >> DOCUMENTED INJURIES THAT YOU SAW WITH RESPECT TO MR. GEORGE FLOYD, I'LL ASK YOU ABOUT SPECIFIC PARTS OF THE BODY. >> OKAY. DID YOU NOTE ANY INJURIES TO MR. FLOYD'S BACK? >> I DID NOT. >> DIDN'T SEE ANY BRUISES, SCRAPES? >> CORRECT. >> WHAT ABOUT THE INJURIES TO MR. FLOYD'S FACE? >> YES, MR. FLOYD HAD SEVERAL INJURIES TO HIS FACE. >> IF YOU COULD, DR. BAKER, LOOK AT EXHIBIT 186. AND EXHIBIT 235. I'LL REPRESENT TO YOU THE JURORS HAVE SEEN THESE TWO PHOTOS. IS THE -- FIRST, TELL US WHAT DO WE SEE IN THESE TWO PHOTOS? >> THESE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE LEFT SIDE OF MR. FLOYD'S FACE. THIS WOULD BE AFTER I HAD REMOVED OR CUT AWAY ANY MEDICAL INTERVENTION. HAD THERE BEEN BLOOD OR FOREIGN MATERIAL ON HIS BODY, IT WAS CLEANED UP BEFORE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN. THESE WERE SPECIFICALLY TAKEN TO ILLUSTRATE THE INJURIES YOU SEE ON THE CORNER OF HIS LEFT EYEBROW AND HIS CHEEK. YOU CAN SEE THE BRUISING AND ABRASION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS FOREHEAD, YOU CAN SEE THE SCRAPE OR THE ABRASION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS CHEEK. IT'S COMMON FOR ABRASIONS POSTMORTEM TO TAKE ON THAT DARK, BLACK COLOR. AFTER DEATH, THEY LOOK MORE LIKE WHAT YOU SEE IN THE PHOTO. >> DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION AS TO HOW MR. FLOYD WOULD HAVE INCURRED THESE ABRASIONS? >> THESE WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS FACE BEING PINNED AGAINST THE ASPHALT OR THE ROAD SURFACE HE WAS ON THE NIGHT BEFORE. >> IN THE PRONE POSITION. >> CORRECT. >> IF YOU WOULD, DR. BAKER, LOOK AT EXHIBIT 185. >> GOT IT. >> WHAT DO WE SEE IN EXHIBIT 185? >> THIS IS AN OVERALL PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S FACE, TAKEN EARLY ON IN THE POSTMORTEM EXAMINATION. YOU CAN SEE THE SCALE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH. THAT'S IN ALL THE PHOTOS YOU HAVE WITH HIS CASE NUMBER AND THE SCALE ALLOWS YOU TO GAUGE THE SIZE OF WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT. THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH I WOULD TAKE IN ANY CASE. YOU CAN SEE THE INJURIES THAT WE ILLUSTRATED IN THE PREVIOUS TWO PHOTOS ON THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS HEAD AND HIS LEFT CHEEK. YOU CAN SEE A SMALL ABRASION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS FOREHEAD, THAT PINPOINT THING ABOUT AN INCH ABOVE HIS LEFT EYEBROW. YOU CAN SEE A TEARING OF THE SKIN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HIS UPPER LIP. THERE'S ALSO SOME SUBTLE BRUISING OF HIS NOSE AND A COUPLE OF SMALL ABRASIONS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HIS NOSE. I THINK YOU CAN SEE A FEW SMALL ABRASIONS UNDER THE LEFT CORNER OF HIS MOUTH. >> DR. BAKER, WHAT IS THE TUBE THAT WE SEE IN HIS MOUTH? >> THE TUBE IN MR. FLOYD'S MATT WAS THE ENDOTAKIE WAS THE ENDOENDOTAKE ENDO TRACH TUBE THAT WAS PUT IN. >> DR. BAKER, IF YOU WOULD GO TO EXHIBIT 187. WHAT DO WE SEE IN EXHIBIT 187? >> THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S RIGHT SHOULDER. CENTERED ABOVE THE PHOTOGRAPH YOU CAN SEE AN ABRADED CONTUSION, WHICH IS A FANCY MEDICAL LINGO FOR A BRUISE THAT HAS SOME SCRAPING SUPERIMPOSED ON IT. >> EXHIBIT 188? >> EXHIBIT 188 IS A CLOSE-UP PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S LEFT SHOULDER. YOU CAN SEE OCCUPYING MOST OF THE PHOTOGRAPH THERE IS AN ABRASION. THE DEEP RED AND SLIGHTLY LESS RED AND PINK INJURY THAT YOU SEE. AGAIN, IT LOOKS DARKER THAN YOU MIGHT ENVISION THIS ON YOURSELF. TYPICALLY THESE WILL DRY OUT AFTER DEATH. THAT'S WHY IT TAKES THAT DARKER APPEARANCE. >> IS THIS AN INJURY THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH MR. FLOYD LAYING PRONE ON ASPHALT? >> YES. >> LET'S LOOK AT EXHIBITS 189 AND 190. WHAT DO YOU SEE IN EXHIBITS 189 AND 190? >> EXHIBIT 189 IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE BACK AND SIDE OF MR. FLOYD'S LEFT HAND. EXHIBIT 190 IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE BACKSIDE OF MR. FLOYD'S RIGHT HAND. IN ANY CASE WE THINK HAS THE PO POTENTIAL TO BE A HOMICIDE, WE EXAMINE THE HANDS VERY CAREFULLY AND PHOTOGRAPH THE HANDS VERY CAREFULLY. OUR HANDS ARE LARGELY THE WAY WE INTERACT WITH THE WORLD AROUND US, SOMETIMES INJURIES ON THE HANDS OR LACK THEREOF CAN TELL US WHAT HAPPENED. SPECIFICALLY IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE, YOU CAN SEE A NUMBER OF SCAR-LIKE AREAS ON HIS KNUCKLES ON THE LEFT AND SOME SCATTERED ACROSS THE BACK OF HIS RIGHT HAND. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE FROM. THOSE OBVIOUSLY PRE-DATE THE EVENTS OF HIS DEATH. THE MORE ACUTE INJURIES IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, RIGHT ABOVE THE SCALE IN EACH PICTURE YOU CAN SEE KIND OF A PATTERNED BRUISE THAT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A TRAM TRACK, THOSE PARALLEL MARKS. THAT'S TYPICAL FOR WHAT HANDCUFF MARKS LOOK LIKE WHEN WE SEE THEM AT AUTOPSY. >> DR. BAKER, EXHIBIT 191. >> EXHIBIT 191 IS A CLOSE-UP PHOTOGRAPH OF THE BACK OF THE INDEX AND THIRD FINGERS OF MR. FLOYD'S RIGHT HAND. YOU CAN SEE THAT HE'S GOT SOME INJURIES OVER HIS KNUCKLES. JUST FOR ORIENTATION, IF I WERE TO USE MY OWN RIGHT HAND, WE'RE LOOKING AT AN INJURY RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT HERE ON THE BACK OF THOSE TWO FINGERS. >> DID YOU HAVE AN OPINION AS TO WHAT MAY BE THE CAUSE OF THOSE INJURIES? >> SO, THESE ARE BLUNT FORCE INJURIES. THESE ARE ABRASIONS AND LACERATIONS. THAT'S DAMAGE TO THE SKIN FROM BLUNT TRAUMA. THESE WOULD BE ENTIRELY CONSISTENT WITH HIM HAVING BEEN IN AN ALTERCATION WITH ANOTHER PERSON. THEY CERTAINLY COULD BE FROM THE ASPHALT OR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING HIS HAND COULD HAVE BANGED INTO. >> THANK YOU, DR. BAKER. YOU MAY PUT THE PHOTOS AWAY. NOW, I'D LIKE TO TALK WITH YOU FOR JUST A MOMENT ABOUT YOUR EXAMINATION OF MR. FLOYD'S HEART. >> OKAY. >> DID YOU TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S HEART STILL INTACT? >> NO, I DID NOT. >> WOULD YOU TELL THE JURY WHY NOT? >> I DON'T NORMALLY PHOTOGRAPH ORGANS THAT APPEAR TO BE PERFECTLY NORMAL. UNLESS THERE'S SOME REASON TO. I DON'T HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. FLOYD'S SPLEEN OR MR. FLOYD'S LIVER EITHER BECAUSE THOSE WERE ALSO GROSSLY NORMAL. HIS HEART WAS ENLARGED BY WEIGHT, BUT THAT WOULDN'T BE SOMETHING YOU COULD CAPTURE IN A PHOTOGRAPH UNLESS IT WAS SO EXCESSIVELY ENLARGED THAT IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS FROM THE PICTURE. >> SO, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE TISSUES OF THE HEART, ARE YOU ABLE TO DECESCRIBE THEM GENERAL? >> SURE. >> WOULD YOU TELL THE JURORS WHAT THOSE ARE THAT YOU ORDINARILY LOOK AT? >>Y YES. DISSECTING THE HEART IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS WE DO IN EVERY AUTOPSY BECAUSE THE HEART IS INVOLVED IN SO MANY DEATHS THAT WE INVESTIGATE. SO THE FIRST THING WE DO IS WE CAREFULLY REMOVE THE HEART FROM THE LUNGS. THE NEXT THING YOU DO IS YOU CAREFULLY MAKE SURE THERE'S NO BLOOD OR CLOT LEFT IN THE HEART BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GET AN ACCURATE WEIGHT. IT TURNS OUT THAT THE WEIGHT OF THE HEART IS A GOOD PREDICTOR AS TO WHETHER THAT HEART IS NORMAL OR NOT. PEOPLE WHO HAVE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THEIR HEART WILL GET HEAVIER LIKE ANY MUSCLE THAT WORKED HARD. THE HEART WILL GROW IN RESPONSE TO THAT STRESS. WE DO WEIGH THE HEART FIRST. THE NEXT THING YOU TYPICALLY DO IS CAREFULLY DISSECT THE CORONARY ARTERIES. WHEN I SAY CAREFULLY DISSECT, A TAKE A SCALPEL PLAYEDBLIND AND EVERY TWO, THREE, FOUR MILLIMETERS. A NORMAL ADULT HEART WILL BE DESCRIBED AS HAVING TWO CORONARY ARTERIES, THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT. THE LEFT IMMEDIATELY BRANCHES INTO THE LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING AND THE LEFT CIRCUMFLEX. WE DIE SSSECTED THOSE TWO CAREFULLY. USUALLY YOU WILL HEAR PEOPLE DESCRIBE THE CIRCUMFLEX, THE LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING AND THE RIGHT. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THOSE ARTERIES ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE, AND HAVE NORMAL OPENINGS WHERE THEY CONNECT TO THE AORTA AND WE MAKE SURE NONE OF THOSE ARTERIES HAVE NARROWING OR BLOCKAGES IN THEM. AFTER WE HAVE DONE THAT WE WILL TYPICALLY CAREFULLY SLICE THE HEART, MEANING THE WHOLE ORGAN WHERE WE'RE CUTTING THROUGH THE MUSCLE. AS YOU MAKE THOSE SLICES, WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS EVIDENCE OF PREVIOUS HEART DAMAGE. IS THERE A SCAR IN THE HEART? IS THERE HEMORRHAGE OF THE HEART SUGGESTING A MORE RECENT HEART ATTACK, IF YOU WILL. THERE'S MANY MORE RARE CONDITIONS OF THE HEART THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR WHILE WE DO THIS. NONE OF THOSE APPLY IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE BUT THOSE ARE IN THE BACK OF OUR MINDS WHEN WE DO THIS. THE LAST THING IS ONCE WE CUT THE MUSCLE OF THE HEART, WE OPEN ALL THE VALVES OF THE HEART. WE MAKE SURE THE VALVE LEAFLETS ARE NORMAL, THERE'S NO CALCIFICATIONS, THE NORMAL NUMBER OF LEAFLETS. NOW WE'VE LOOKED AT THE OUTSIDE OF THE HARD, THE CORONARIES, THE MUSCLE OF THE HEART AND THE VALVES. >> SO, HAVING DONE ALL OF THAT WITH RESPECT TO MR. FLOYD, DID YOU FIND ANY PREVIOUS DAMAGE TO HIS HEART MUSCLE? >> NO. MR. FLOYD HAD NO VISIBLE OR MICROSCOPIC PREVIOUS DAMAGE TO HIS HEART MUSCLE. >> I APOLOGIZE, DR. BAKER AND TO THE JURY, THERE'S ONE OTHER PHOTOGRAPH I WANT TO LOOK AT. >> OKAY. >> SO IF WE COULD PULL OUT NUMBER 192. THAT SHOULD BE THE HEART VALVES. DR. BAKER, WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT WE SEE IN 192? >> YES, EXHIBIT 192 IS CROSS SECTIONS OF WHAT I WOULD DESCRIBE AS THE WORST OR THE NARROWEST LESIONS THAT I FOUND IN MR. FLOYD'S CORONARY ARTERIES. SO, ABOVE ABOUT THE 3 MARK ON THE RULER, YOU CAN SEE THREE PIECES OF CORONARY ARTERY FAIRLY CLOSE TOGETHER. THE UPPERMOST ONE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH IS WHAT WE CALL THE PROXIMAL LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING CORONARY ARTERY. SO THAT MEANS THAT'S PRETTY CLOSE TO THE AYOAORTA. AND IN MOST ADULTS. THE LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING IS THE LARGEST OF THE THREE CORONARY ARTERIES. SO MR. FLOYD'S LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING ARTERY IS QUITE NARROWED. I WOULD PUT THAT AT 75% NARROWING. THE CUT BELOW THAT THE MIDDLE OF THE THREE, THAT'S ANOTHER SECTION THROUGH MR. FLOYD'S LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING CORONARY ARTERY. THAT AREA, A TIGHT NARROWING IS STILL THERE. I WOULD PUT THAT AT ABOUT 75%. AND THEN THE THIRD ONE YOU SEE IN THAT SERIES OF THREE, THE ONE CLOSEST TO THE RULER IS THE FIRST BRANCH OFF OF HIS LEFT ANTERIOR DESCENDING CORONARY ARTERY. THAT'S CALLED THE FIRST DIAGONAL BRANCH. THAT CAN BE A BIG ONE IN SOME PEOPLE. IT WAS A PRETTY GOOD SIZE IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE. THAT IS ALSO QUITE NARROWED AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH. I SHOULD BACK UP AND EXPLAIN WHEN I SAY NARROWED, I MEAN THE YELLOW PLAQUE THAT YOU SEE LINING THOSE CORONARY ARTERIES, LIKE A PARTIALLY CLOGGED PLUMBING PIPE, THAT'S THE CHOLESTEROL, THE FIBRINOUS TISSUE, THAT'S THE SCAR THAT YOU DON'T WANT IN YOUR CORONARY ARTERIES. THAT'S WHY YOUR DOCTOR CHECKS YOUR CHOLESTEROL AND ASKS YOU NOT TO SMOKE AND TELLS YOU TO WATCH YOUR WEIGHT AND BLOOD PRESSURE. THIS IS WHAT HE OR SHE IS TRYING TO PREVENT, THAT BLACK BUILD UP. THAT'S THE YELLOW DISCOLORATION YOU SEE IN THESE ARTERIES. THEY SHOULD BE WIDE OPEN. YOU SHOULD BE SEEING THROUGH AROUND A HOLE IN EACH OF SO GETTING BACK TO THE DESCRIPTION OF THE PHOTOGRAPH, THE FOURTH CROSS SECTION YOU SEE CLOSER TO THE ONE ON THIS SCALE, THAT'S MR. FLOYD'S RIGHT CORONARY ARTERY. IN MOST ADULTS IT WOULD BE THE SECOND LARGEST OF THE THREE CORONARIES. YOU CAN SEE THAT ONE IS ALSO SIGNIFICANTLY NARROWED BY ATHEROCLEROTIC PLAQUE AS WELL. >> SO, DR. BAKER, ARE YOU KIND OF FAMILIAR WITH THE CONCEPT OF ACUTE CHANGES IN PLAQUE BUILDUP? >> YES. >> WOULD YOU TELL THE JURORS WHAT THAT MEANS? >> SO THERE ARE TIMES AT AUTOPSY WHEN WE CAN TELL THAT A PLAQUE HAS SUDDENLY CHANGED BECAUSE IT HAS FRACTURED. THESE PLAQUES CAN ACTUALLY BE KIND OF HARD, THAT'S WHY IT IS KNOWN AS HARDENING OF THE CORONARY ARTERIES. SOMETIME THESE PLAQUES WILL FRACTURE AND YOU CAN SEE CLOT OR FIBRIN, WHICH IS PROTEIN FROM THE BLOOD, FILLING THE PLAQUE. THE PLAQUE WENT FROM BEING SMALLER THAN IT USED TO BE TO BEING BIGGER THAN IT USED TO BE VERY, VERY QUICKLY. SOMETIMES YOU CAN EVEN GET HEMORRHAGE INTO A PLAQUE AS IT FRACTURES, AND SO THE PLAQUE CAN GROW VERY QUICKLY. WE CAN SEE IT WITH THE NAKED EYE AT AUTOPSY, SOMETIMES WE CAN SEE IT UNDER THE MICROSCOPE AS WELL. TO THE HEART OF YOUR QUESTION, COUNSELLOR, I DID NOT THOSE DH CHANGES IN MR. FLOYD'S CORONARY ARTERIES. THESE LOOKED TO BE STABLE PLAQUES FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM. >> IF THEY FRACTURED OR CREATED A CLOT OF SOME KIND, WOULD IT BE OBSERVABLE ON AUTOPSY? >> YES, THAT'S ONE REASON WE DISSECT THE ARTERIES SO CAREFULLY, YOU WON'T WANT TO MISS AN ACUTE CHANGE OR THROMBUS BECAUSE IT CAN TELL YOU HOW HE DIED. >> WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE IF YOU HAD A DEFECTIVE HEART MUSCLE ON AUTOPSY? >> IF WE FIND A THROMBUS, WHICH MEANS AN ACUTE CLOT IN A CORONARY ARTERY, IF A PERSON DIES VERY, VERY QUICKLY, WHICH IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE, WE WON'T SEE ANYTHING ABNORMAL IN THE HEART MUSCLE THAT DEPENDS ON THE CORONARY ARTERY FOR ITS SURVIVAL. PEOPLE TYPICALLY NEED TO SURVIVE FOR HOURS FROM THEIR ACUTE CARDIAC EVENT BEFORE WE CAN SEE ANY CHANGES IN THE HEART, EITHER UNDER THE MICROSCOPE OR WITH THE NAKED EYE. SO, AGAIN, IF A PERSON DIES VERY, VERY QUICKLY FROM A CORONARY ARTERY EVENT, WE CAN ONLY INFER WHAT HAPPENED BASED ON THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE BAD CORONARIES AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THEIR DEATH. WE WOULDN'T EXPECT THE HEART MUSCLE TO LOOK ABNORMAL. >> AND IF THE HEART MUSCLE DOES SHOW DAMAGE FROM A CLOT, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? >> SO THAT DEPENDS ON HOW LONG THE CLOT HAS BEEN THERE AND HOW LONG THE PERSON HAS SURVIVED. THERE'S A GENERALLY GOOD PROGRESSION OF CHANGES THAT WE SEE VERY, VERY EARLY. ALL YOU MIGHT SEE UNDER THE MICROSCOPE IS SOME OF THE HEART CELLS START TO LOOK A LITTLE WAVY AND ABNORMAL. SHORTLY AFTER THAT THEY START TO TAKE ON WAY MORE PIGMENT UNDER THE MICROSCOPE THAN THE SURROUNDING HEART CELLS DO, THEY LOOK BRIGHTER UNDER THE MICROSCOPE, THEN THE HEART CELLS START TO DIE OR NECROSE AS WE SAY IN PATHOLOGY. THAT BRINGS IN INFLAMMATORY REACTION FROM THE BODY, SO YOU SEE INFLAMMATORY CELLS START TO CLEANUP THE DEAD CELLS. THEN THE BODY WILL BRING IN NEW GRA GRANU GRANULATION. DEAD HEART CELLS DON'T GROW BACK, SO ONCE THEY DIE, DEPENDING ON HOW LONG THE PERSON SURVIVES, WE WILL SEE ANYTHING FROM THE EARLY CHANGES ALL THE WAY OUT TO A SCAR. >> BUT WITH RESPECT TO MR. FLOYD, YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY DAMAGE TO THE HEART MUSCLE? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BRAIN. DID YOU NOTE ANY INJURY OR DAMAGE TO HIS BRAIN TISSUES? >> I DID NOT. I DID NOT NOTICE ANY ACUTE INJURY TO HIS BRAIN IN THE SENSE OF PHYSICAL TRAUMA, FOR DID I NOTE ANY INJURY TO HIS BRAIN IN THE SENSE OF IT BEING DEPRIVED OF BLOOD OR OXYGEN. >> DID YOU NOTE ANYTHING REGARDING MR. FLOYD'S LUNGS? >> MR. FLOYD'S LUNGS HAD A LOT OF FLUID AND CONGESTION IN THEM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT THEY WERE GENERALLY NORMAL POSTMORTEM LUNGS. >> AND IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET FLUID ON THE LUNGS OR EDEMITOUS LUNGS, I THINK YOU CALLED IT, FROM THE EFFORTS TO RESUSCITATE MR. FLOYD AFTER HE WAS TAKEN FROM THE SCENE? >> YES. >> AND WHAT KINDS OF FLUIDS CAN CAUSE THAT? >> WELL, BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING AT AUTOPSY IS JUST CALLED EDEMA FLUID, WHICH IS A LIGHTLY PROTEIN FILLED FLUID THAT SEEPS OUT OF THE BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS AND FILLS UP THE BREATHING SPACES. WE SEE THAT IN PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD PROTRACTED CPR, WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN LOTS OF FLUID, YOU KNOW, AS THEIR HEART IS NOT WORKING VERY WELL, PERHAPS NOT AT ALL DURING THE CPR, THEY ARE STILL GETTING A LOT OF FLUID PUT IN THEM IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM. SO WE CAN SEE THAT PULMONARY EDEMA FROM THAT. THERE'S OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH WE SEE PULMONARY EDEMA AS WELL. IT IS A FAIRLY NONSPECIFIC FINDING. >> SO IN THIS INSTANCE WITH RESPECT TO MR. FLOYD, YOU DIDN'T OR DIDN'T NEED TO TAKE THE TIME TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS THE SOURCE OF HIS PULMONARY EDEMA? >> I DON'T KNOW THAT I COULD PINPOINT THE SOURCE WITH ANY ACCURACY. AGAIN, GIVEN THAT HE GOT CPR, THERE'S MULTIPLE POTENTIAL EXPLANATIONS FOR HIS PULMONARY EDEMA. >> WHAT ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF WHAT'S CALLED A PULMONARY EMBOLISM? WHAT IS A PULMONARY EMBOLISM? >> IT IS WHEN YOU HAVE A CLOT FORM IN ANOTHER PART OF YOUR BODY, MOST COMMONLY IT IS IN THE LOWER LEGS OR THE PELVIS, ALTHOUGH IT CAN FORM IN OTHER PLACES. THAT CLOT BREAKS OFF AND IT GOES STRAIGHT TO THE LUNGS BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOUR HEART PUMPS ALL OF THE BLOOD AS IT RETURNS FROM YOUR BODY. A MASSIVE PULMONARY EMBOLISM CAN BE ALMOST INSTANTANEOUSLY FATAL. BY MASSIVE I MEAN IT BLOCKS THE ARTERY OFF THE TOP OF THE HEART GOING TO THE LUNGS. SMALL SMALLER PULMONARY EMBOLI CAN GO OUT INTO SMALLER BRANCHES OF THE LUNGS. SOMETIMES THEY ARE ASYMPTOMATIC OR SYMPTOMATIC OR LIFE THREATENING. WE LOOK FOR IT AS PART OF THE FORENSIC AUTOPSY. >> DID YOU SEE ANY PULMONARY EMBOLI IN THE CASE OF MR. GEORGE FLOYD? >> NO, HE DID NOT HAVE ANY. >> DR. BAKER, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TOXICOLOGY. DID YOU SEEK WHAT IS CALLED A TOXICOLOGY SCREEN IN THIS CASE? >> YES. >> WOULD YOU TELL THE JURY, WHAT IS A TOXICOLOGY SCREEN? >> SO WE ACTUALLY USE THE TERM EXPANDED PANEL SIMPLY BECAUSE THE LABORATORY THAT WE USE, THAT'S THE TERMINOLOGY. BUT IN ESSENCE WHAT WE DO IS WE SEND OFF ONE OR MORE TUBES OF BLOOD, AND IN SOME CASES URINE, TO OUR TOXICOLOGY LAB. THEY RUN A VERY COMPREHENSIVE PANEL, LOOKING FOR A VARIETY OF ILLICIT DRUGS AS WELL AS SCORES AND SCORES OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. I EXPECT THAT YOU HAVE PROBABLY ALREADY HEARD FROM A TOXICOLOGIST SO I WON'T GO INTO THE LABORATORY PART OF IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE, BUT PART OF THE TESTING THEY DO IS ANTI-BODIES LOOKING FOR SPECIFIC CATEGORIES OF DRUGS LIKE MORPHINE AND RELATED COMPOUNDS, BENZODIAZEPINES, BARBITURATES AND SO ON. THE LAB CAN DO OTHER TECHNIQUES SUCH AS GAS CHROME TO GO RAVE, MASS MASS SPEC AND THEY HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO DETECT THINGS THAT WAY. THAT'S WHAT WE CALL THE EXPANDED PANEL WITH THE LAB WE WORK WITH AND THAT'S WHAT WE TYPICALLY ASK FOR ON MOST FORENSIC TOXICOLOGIES. >> IS THE LAB YOU WORKED WITH MNS? >> YES. >> HOW LONG HAVE YOU WORKED WITH MNS LABS? >> IT HAS BEEN 13 OR 14 MONTHS NOW. >> FOR THE PAST 13 OR 14 MONTHS, WOULD THAT BE THE ONLY LAB YOU WOULD BE SENDING OUT TOXICOLOGY PANELS OR SCREENS TO FROM THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE? >> YES, ALL OF OUR POST-MORTEM TOXICOLOGY IS DONE BY MNS. >> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH A TOXICOLOGIST NAMED DR. ISENSCHMID? >> YES, I KNOW DAN. >> DR. ISENSCHMID TESTIFIED HERE JUST -- TIME FLIES. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS YESTERDAY OR TWO DAYS AGO, BUT HE TESTIFIED HERE. DO YOU HAVE A GOOD OPINION OF HIM AS A TOXICOLOGIST? >> HE HAS BEEN GREAT TO WORK WITH SO FAR. WE HAVE -- >> HOLD ON. OBJECTION IS SUSTAINED. >> YOU KNOW DR. ISENSCHMID? >> I DO. >> DID YOU EXAMINE THE CONTENTS OF MR. FLOYD'S STOMACH AS PART OF YOUR AUTOPSY? >> I DID. >> WHAT DID YOU NOTE REGARDING THE CONTENTS? >> COUNSELLOR, CAN I REFER TO MY REPORT SO THAT I DON'T -- >> YES, IF IT HELPS TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION. >> I'M SIMPLY GOING TO QUOTE WHAT I DICTATED AS PART OF THE POST-MORTEM EXAMINE. THE STOMACH CONTAINS APPROXIMATELY 450 MILLILITERS OF DARK BROWN FLUID WITH IMNUM RABBLE SOFT FRAGMENTS OF GRAY-WHITE FOOD PARTICULATE MATTER RESEMBLING BREAD. >> DID YOU NOTE ANYTHING RESEMBLING EITHER A PILL OR PILL FRAGMENTS IN THE STOMACH CONTENTS? >> I DID NOT. >> DID YOU DO ANY TESTING OF THE CONTENTS OF MR. FLOYD'S STOMACH AS A PART OF THE TOXICOLOGY ASSESSMENT FOR MR. FLOYD? >> SO I WOULDN'T DO ANY TESTING OF THAT. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD SEND IT TO A LAB LIKE MNS FOR TESTING, BUT I DID NOT REQUEST THAT. >> SO WERE YOU AWARE OF WHETHER OR NOT MR. FLOYD HAD TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID? >> YES, I WAS AWARE OF THAT. NOT AT THE TIME I DID THE AUTOPSY, BUT I BECAME AWARE OF THAT LATER. >> WAS THAT SIGNIFICANT TO YOU IN ANY WAY? >> THAT HE HAD TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID? >> YES, SIR. >> I GUESS IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY SIGNIFICANT. THIS WAS VERY EARLY IN THE PANDEMIC, AND WE WERE STILL SCRAMBLING TO FIGURE OUT THINGS LIKE AUTOPSY SAFETY PROTOCOLS AND WHAT WE SHOULD BE WEARING. SO IN THAT SENSE, IT WAS SIGNIFICANT. IN MR. FLOYD'S SPECIFIC CASE, THE FACT THAT HE HAD BEEN COVID POSITIVE SEVEN OR EIGHT WEEKS BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY DID NOT FACTOR INTO MY CAUSE OF DEATH DETERMINATION BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE ANY SIGNS OF COVID AT HIS AUTOPSY AND HIS LUNGS DID NOT HAVE ANY OF THE STIGMATA OF COVID I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE UNDER THE MICROSCOPE. >> SO WAS HE CLINICALLY ASYMPTOMATIC FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW? >> I CAN'T ASSESS THAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW MR. FLOYD WHEN HE WAS ALIVE. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, HE WAS GENERALLY HEALTHY ON MAY 25th BEFORE THE EVENTS OF THAT EVENING. I'M UNAWARE THAT HE WAS SUFFERING FROM ANY ACUTE COVID SYMPTOMS AT THAT TIME. >> YOU ALSO NOTED THAT MR. FLOYD HAD SICKLE CELL TRAIT. WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT? >> SICKLE CELL TRAIT IS CARRIED BY ABOUT 8% OF ARNMERICANS OF AFRICAN HERITAGE. WHAT IT MEANS IS ONE OF THE GENES THAT CODES FOR THE BETA GENE OF HEMOGLOBIN HAS AN ABNORMAL SUBSTITUTION IN IT. IF YOU JUST HAVE SICKLE CELL TRAIT, CHANCES ARE YOU WILL GO THROUGH LIFE AND NEVER HAVE ANY SYMPTOMS OF IT BECAUSE YOU MAKE PLENTY OF NORMAL HEMOGLOBIN. IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM SICKLE CELL DISEASE WHICH MEANS BOTH OF THE GENES HAVE THAT GENE SUBSTITUTION, AND THEN YOU HAVE SICKLE CELL DISEASE. PEOPLE WITH SICKLE CELL DISEASE CAN GET VERY SEVERE ANEMIA, THEY CAN HAVE SICKLE CELL CRISES. THEY ARE SUBJECT TO A VARIETY OF INFECTIONS AND OTHER COMPLICATIONS, BUT MR. FLOYD DIDN'T HAVE THAT. HE JUST HAD THE ONE GENE FOR SICKLE CELL TRAIT. I WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE KNOWN THAT EXCEPT THAT IT HAPPENS THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE SICKLE CELL TRAIT, WHEN YOU TAKE A BIOPSY OF ONE OF THEIR TISSUES AND PUT IT IN FOR MALDEHYDE, IT CAN CAUSE CELLS TO SICKLE AS A POST-MORTEM ARTIFACT. WHEN I SAW THAT ON THE SLIDES, I SAID DO YOU HAVE A PERIPHERAL BLOOD SMEAR FOR MR. FLOYD, AND IT TURNED OUT THEY HAD MADE A BLOOD SMEAR FOR CPR. I HAD A PATHOLOGIST THAT SPECIALIZES IN THAT LOOK AT THE SLIDES AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE. THEY ACTUALLY QUANTIFY THE ABNORMAL HEMOGLOBIN IN THE BLOOD AND SURE ENOUGH IT CAME BACK WITH THE EXACT NUMBER THAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MR. FLOYD HAVING SICKLE CELL TRAIT. IT IS REALLY JUST A FLUKE IT WAS PICKED UP AT AUTOPSY. IN MY OPINION IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHY HE DIED. >> ALL RIGHT. WHAT ABOUT PARA GANGLIOMA, A KIND OF TUMOR? I WILL JUST ASK YOU ABOUT THE PARAGANGLIOMA AS TO WHETHER YOU FOUND OR CONCLUDED IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH MR. FLOYD'S DEATH? >> THE SHORT ANSWER IS I DON'T FEEL THAT MR. FLOYD'S PARAGANGLIOMA HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIS DEATH. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN INCIDENTAL TUMOR I HAPPENED TO FIND IN HIS PELVIS DURING THE AUTOPSY. I DID LOOK AT IT UNDER THE MICROSCOPE. THE MOST LIKELY DIAGNOSIS IS A PARAGANGLIOMA BUT I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH MR. FLOYD'S DEATH. >> SO, DR. BAKER, I WANT TO SWITCH AND TALK ABOUT THE DEATH SEVENTY. >> OKAY. >> IF WE COULD PULL UP EXHIBIT 194. FIRST, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE PRESS RELEASE REPORT. >> OKAY. >> AND ASK YOU FIRST, DR. BAKER, IF YOU WILL JUST IDENTIFY WHAT THIS IS FOR THE RECORD? >> YES, WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT IS THE FINAL PRESS RELEASE MY OFFICE PUT OUT ONCE I HAD REACHED MY CONCLUSION AS TO THE CAUSE AND MANNER OF MR. FLOYD'S DEATH. >> OKAY. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT IT MEANS TO CERTIFY A DEATH? >> TO CERTIFY A DEATH AS A PHYSICIAN MEANS THAT YOU FILL IN THE DECEDENT'S CAUSE OF DEATH AND THEIR MANNER OF DEATH, AND IF THEIR MANNER OF DEATH IS OTHER THAN NATURAL, THEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO FILL IN THE HOW INJURY OCCURRED BOX ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE. DEATH CERTIFICATES ARE RELATIVELY STANDARD IN THE UNITED STATES. MOST OF WHAT IS ON THEM IS LARGELY DICTATED BY THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL. THEY VARY A LITTLE BIT IN APPEARANCE FROM STATE TO STATE, BUT THE CORE ELEMENTS ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME IN EVERY JURISDICTION. MOST OF WHAT IS ON A DEATH CERTIFICATE IS ACTUALLY FILLED IN BY FAMILY MEMBERS AND THE FUNERAL DIRECTOR. SO WHAT IS THE DECEDENT'S FULL NAME, WHERE WERE THEY BORN, WHAT ARE THE NAMES OF THEIR PARENTS, DID THEY EVER SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES. THERE'S ALL KIND OF THINGS THAT ARE CAPTURED. THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S PRIMARY ROLE, AS I MENTIONED, IS THE CAUSE OF DEATH, THE MANNER OF DEATH AND HOW THE INJURY OCCURRED. MOST DEATH CERTIFICATES IN THE UNITED STATES ARE ACTUALLY FILLED OUT BY CLINICIANS, MEANING YOUR PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR THAT YOU SEE. THAT PERSON FILLS OUT DEATH CERTIFICATES FOR THEIR PATIENTS WHO DIE OF ROUTINE, NATURAL CONDITIONS. MEDICAL EXAMINER'S GET INVOLVED WHEN THE DEATH APPEARS TO BE FROM UNNATURAL CAUSES. IN PRACTICE, WE SHOULD BE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CERTIFY DEATHS WHERE THE MANNER IS EVER ANYTHING OTHER THAN NATURAL. >> SO, DOCTOR, IF WE COULD LOOK AT EXHIBIT 193. FIRST, FOR THE RECORD, WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT THIS IS? >> YES, THIS IS -- LOOKS TO BE AN ACTUAL STATE OF MINNESOTA DEATH CERTIFICATE FOR MR. GEORGE FLOYD. THESE DEATH CERTIFICATES ARE ACTUALLY PRODUCED BY THE STATE, NOT BY THE MEDICAL EXAMINERS. WE SIMPLY FILL IN THE PARTS WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR. WE PUSH ALL OF THE DATA TO THE MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, AND THEN THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IS ISSUED BY THE STATE. THAT'S WHY WHAT YOU SEE HERE SAYS "STATE OF MINNESOTA" ON THE TOP. BUT THE CAUSE OF DEATH, THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS AND THE MANNER, THAT'S WHAT I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR AND THAT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR DISPLAY. >> YES. I WANT TO ZOOM IN ON THAT AND SHOW IT TO THE JURY. I THINK THIS IS -- SO IF WE LOOK AT THE CAUSE OF DEATH, IMMEDIATE, UNDERLYING, OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS, THIS WILL BE THE SECOND THON T SECTION THAT YOU FILL OUT THEN? >> CORRECT. >> WE SEE UNDER MANNER OF DEATH IT INDICATES HOMICIDE. TELL US, WHAT DOES HOMICIDE MEAN TO YOU AS A MEDICAL EXAMINER? >> SO AS A MEDICAL EXAMINER WE APPLY THE TERM "HOMICIDE" WHEN THE ACTIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN AN INDIVIDUAL'S DEATH. IT IS ONE OF FIVE MANNERS OF DEATH THAT WE CAN CHOOSE FROM. THE OTHER FOUR BEING ACCIDENT, SUICIDE, NATURAL OR UNDETERMINED. HOMICIDE IN MY WORLD IS A MEDICAL TERM. IT IS NOT A LEGAL TERM. FROM A VITAL HEALTH AND PUBLIC STATISTICS POINT OF VIEW, IT IS CRITICAL THAT MEDICAL EXAMINERS FILL IN A MANNER OF DEATH ON EVERY DEATH CERTIFICATE BECAUSE FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH POINT OF VIEW YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE COMMITTED SUICIDE IN YOUR STATE, HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED OF ACCIDENTS IN A GIVEN YEAR IN YOUR STATE. IT IS A KEY PIECE OF PUBLIC HEALTH DATA, BUT WE DON'T USE IT AS A LEGAL TERM. >> DR. BAKER, IN FRONT OF YOU, EXHIBIT 918, IS A LIST OF MANNERS OF DEATH, THE ONES YOU JUST TALKED TO US ABOUT. NATURAL, ACCIDENT, SUICIDE, HOMICIDE, WHICH I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED BECAUSE IT IS WHAT YOU FOUND IN THIS INSTANT, AND THEN UNDETERMINED. WOULD YOU TELL US FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW AS A MED KICAL EXAMINER, WHAT DOES NATURAL MEAN? >> NATURAL MEANS THE PERSON DIALED EXCLUSIVELY OF NATURAL DISEASES. >> RIGHT. AN EXAMPLE OF A NATURAL DISEASE MIGHT BE A HEART ATTACK OR A FATAL ARRHYTHMIA AS A PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH? >> THOSE ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY VAGUE TERMS. WE'RE MUCH MORE SPECIFIC. SO TO YOUR POINT, COUNSELLOR, ATHEROCLEROTIC HEART DISEASE CAUSING A HEART ATTACK WOULD BE A CAUSE OF DEATH. A BRAIN ANEURISM FROM UNTREATED, LONG STANDING HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE WOULD BE A CAUSE OF DEATH. THERE ARE ALMOST AN INFINITE NUMBER OF NATURAL CAUSES OF DEATH. >> IF WE LOOK AT ACCIDENT, AS AN ACCIDENTAL CAUSE OF DEATH, IS A DRUG OVERDOSE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT COULD BE AN ACCIDENTAL CAUSE OF DEATH? >> MOST DRUG OVERDOSES ARE ACCIDENTAL CAUSES OF DEATH. SOME ARE SUICIDES. BUT, YES, WE DO REGARD MOST DRUG OVERDOSES BECAUSE WE DON'T BELIEVE THE PERSON INTENDED TO DIE, WE DO REGARD THOSE AS ACCIDENTS. >> WE KNOW WHAT SUICIDE IS. DOCTOR, WHAT DOES UNDETERMINED MEAN? >> UNDETERMINED MEANS THAT DESPITE THE BEST EFFORTS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S INVESTIGATORS, WE SIMPLY NEVER COULD PIN DOWN THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH THE INDIVIDUAL DIED. IN ANY GOOD MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF CASES EVERY YEAR THAT GO OUT UNDETERMINED IN MANNER. MOST OF THOSE AS IT HAPPENS ARE PEOPLE WHO DIED OF DRUG TOXICITY AND BASED ON THE DRUG LEVELS, BASED ON THE PERSON'S KNOWN HISTORY, WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DATA TO KNOW WHETHER THIS WAS A SUICIDE OR AN ACCIDENT. IF WE DON'T KNOW THEIR INTENT, IT IS OFTEN UNDETERMINED. MORE DRAMATIC, BUT SLIGHTLY LESS COMMON EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, YOU FIND A SKELETONIZED BODY IN THE WOODS. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHY THE PERSON WAS THERE, HOW LONG THEY WERE THERE, THERE'S LITTLE LEFT TO WORK WITH SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. A CASE LIKE THAT MIGHT GO OUT UNDETERMINED AS WELL. AGAIN, MUCH LESS COMMON. BUT UNDETERMINED MEANS ESSENTIALLY WE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES. >> NOW, IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE YOU LISTED THE IMMEDIATE CAUSE OF DEATH AS CARDIO PULMONARY ARREST, COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUEAL RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION. >> RIGHT. >> WHAT DOES CARDIO-PULMONARY ARREST MEAN? >> THAT'S FANCY MEDICAL LINGO FOR THE HEART AND LUNGS STOP. NO PULSE, NO BREATHING. >> SO WITH RESPECT TO THE TERM COMPLICATING, AM I RIGHT IN THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS TERM MEANS OCCURRING IN THE SETTING OF? >> YES. >> OR IN OTHER WORDS CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST OCCURRING IN THE SETTING OF LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION? >> CORRECT. >> DR. BAKER, CAN YOU TELL US HOW IT IS PHYSIOLOGICALLY THAT THE SUBDUING, RESTRAINT AND NECK COM PREEXISTING CAUTIONED MR. FLOYD'S DEATH? >> IN MY OPINION, THE PHYSIOLOGY OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH MR. FLOYD ON THE EVENING OF MAY 25th IS, YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF HIS CORONARY ARTERIES SO YOU KNOW HE HAD VERY SEVERE UNDERLYING HEART DISEASE. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE SPECIFICALLY GOT TO IT, COUNSELLOR, BUT MR. FLOYD ALSO HAD WHAT WE CALL HYPERTENSIVE HEART DISEASE, MEANING HIS HEART WEIGHED MORE THAN IT SHOULD. SO HE HAS A HEART THAT ALREADY NEEDS MORE OXYGEN THAN A NORMAL HEART BY VIRTUE OF ITS SIZE AND IT IS LIMITED IN ITS ABILITY TO STEP UP TO PROVIDE MORE OXYGEN WHEN THERE'S DEMAND BECAUSE OF THE NARROWING OF HIS CORONARY ARTERIES. NOW, IN THE CONTEXT OF AN ALTERCATION WITH OTHER PEOPLE THAT INVOLVES THINGS LIKE PHYSICAL RESTRAINT, THAT INVOLVES THINGS LIKE BEING HELD TO THE GROUND, THAT INVOLVES THINGS LIKE THE PAIN THAT YOU WOULD INCUR FROM EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, YOUR CHEEK UP AGAINST THE ASPHALT, AN ABRASION ON YOUR SHOULDER, THOSE EVENTS ARE GOING TO CAUSE STRESS HORMONES TO POUR INTO YOUR BODY, SPECIFICALLY THINGS LIKE ADRENALINE. WHAT ADRENALINE IS GOING TO DO IS ASK YOUR HEART TO BEAT FASTER. IT IS GOING TO ASK YOUR BODY FOR MORE OXYGEN SO THAT YOU CAN GET THROUGH THAT ALTERCATION, AND IN MY OPINION THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION WAS MORE THAN MR. FLOYD COULD TAKE BY VIRTUE OF THE ART CONDITIONS. >> SO, DR. BAKER, JUST A POINT OF CLARIFICATION THAT OCCURS TO ME AS YOU WERE TALKING. AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, IT IS NOT PART OF WHAT YOU DO WITHIN THE FOUR CORNERS OF YOUR JOB TO TRY TO CALCULATE WHAT MR. FLOYD'S EITHER LUNG VOLUMES OR OXYGEN RESERVES OR THAT SORT OF THING WOULD HAVE BEEN, IS IT? >> I THINK WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AT, COUNSELLOR, IS THE SORT OF THING THAT I WOULD DEFER TO PULMONOLOGIST. THOSE ARE OBVIOUSLY THINGS WE CAN'T MEASURE POSTMORTEM. IN LIVING PEOPLE, CLEARLY THOSE THINGS ARE THE PURVIEW OF PULMONOLOGISTS. >> ALL RIGHT. SO, DR. BAKER, WE DID FIND FROM THE TOXICOLOGY AMOUNTS OF FENTANYL AND METHAMPHETAMINE IN THE RESULTS FROM THE LAB? >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> YOU DIDN'T MENTION EITHER FENTANYL OR METH IN MR. FLOYD'S SYSTEM. YOU MENTION THOSE, BUT YOU DON'T LIST EITHER OF THEM ON THE TOP LINE AS CAUSES OF DEATH. WHY IS THAT? >> WELL, THE TOP LINE OF THE CAUSE OF DEATH IS REALLY WHAT YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT PRECIPITATED THE DEATH. OTHER THINGS THAT YOU THINK PLAYED A ROLE IN THE DEATH BUT WERE NOT DIRECT CAUSES GET RELEGATED TO WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE OTHER SIGNIFICANT CONDITIONS PART OF THE DEATH CERTIFICATE. THE OTHER SIGNIFICANT CONDITIONS ARE THINGS THAT PLAYED A ROLE IN THE DEATH BUT DIDN'T DIRECTLY CAUSE THE DEATH. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, MR. FLOYD'S USE OF FENTANYL DID NOT CAUSE THE SUBDUAL OR NECK RESTRAINT. HIS HEART DISEASE DID NOT CAUSE THE SUBDUAL OR NECK RESTRAINT. >> ALL RIGHT. SO THESE ARE ITEMS THAT MAY HAVE CONTRIBUTED BUT WEREN'T THE DIRECT CAUSE? >> CORRECT. >> NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, DR. BAKER. >> ANYTHING ELSE? >> [ INAUDIBLE ]. >> SURE. >>> ALL RIGHT. SO THERE IS THE MEDICAL EXAMINER OF HENNEPIN COUNTY, DR. BAKER, AFFIRMING AS MUCH AS HE COULD OF THE PROSECUTION'S CASE GIVEN HIS FINDINGS. HE PUT IT SUCCINCTLY, WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD ON THE STREET, DEREK CHAUVIN'S KNEE ON HIS NECK, THE OTHER OFFICERS ON HIM, WAS MORE THAN MR. FLOYD'S HEART COULD TAKE WAS THE WAY THE MEDICAL EXAMINER PUT IT. HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THE LAW OF MURDER, THIRD DEGREE MURDER AND SECOND DEGREE MURDER AND MANSLAUGHTER? THAT WILL BE A CRUCIAL QUESTION FOR THIS COURT. >> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A TEN-MINUTE BREAK. >>> ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HEAR THEN, THERE'S JUDGE PETER CAHILL, CALLING A TEN-MINUTE BREAK TO GIVE ERIC NELSON, THE DEFENSE LAWYER, TIME TO PREPARE WHAT IS REALLY THE CROSS-EXAMINATION OF THE CASE. HE CAN GAIN A LOT OF GROUND WITH THIS WITNESS BECAUSE THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER DOES NOT GO REALLY AS FAR AS THE PROSECUTION DOES. THE PROSECUTION IS SAYING THAT GEORGE FLOYD DIED DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF DEREK CHAUVIN'S KNEE ON HIS NECK. THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER SAYS, THERE WAS MORE INTERACTION BETWEEN WHAT THE POLICE WERE DOING AND GEORGE FLOYD'S ALREADY MEDICALLY VULNERABLE CONDITION. THAT IS HOW IT PLAYS OUT IN COURT. HOW IT ACTUALLY APPLIES TO THE LAW THOUGH, THAT WILL BE UP TO THE JURY TO DECIDE. WHAT ERIC NELSON IS GOING TO TRY TO DO IS TRY TO SHARPEN THAT DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT THE PROSECUTION IS SAYING AND WHAT THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER HAS FOUND HERE. LET'S GO TO OUR ZORINE SHAW WHO IS IN MINNEAPOLIS RIGHT NOW. THIS IS IMPORTANT TESTIMONY OBVIOUSLY FOR THE PROSECUTION, THEY BROUGHT IT OUT, BUT FOR THE DEFENSE AS WELL. >> Reporter: YES, TERRY. YOU COULD ARGUE THIS WAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE THEY WERE LOOKING TO HEAR FROM THIS ENTIRE WEEK, THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, ANDREW BAKER. THEY STAGED HIM FOR FRIDAY. HE SAYS HE DID NOT TAKE ANY PHOTOS OF THE HEART, THAT IS ONE OF THE ORGANS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MOST IN THIS TRIAL, AND IT IS FOR A VERY SPECIFIC REASON. IT IS BECAUSE PROSECUTORS SAY THAT ASPHYXIA OR THE LOSS OF OXYGEN IS THE REASON WHY FLOYD DIED. MEANWHILE, THE DEFENSE IS SAYING HIS HEART CONDITION AND DRUG USE IS THE REASON WHY HE DIED. OKAY. SO HE SAYS HE DIDN'T TAKE ANY PHOTOS OF THE HEART. HE SAYS IT IS BECAUSE IT SEEMS NORMAL, BUT THEN HE GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT HOW HE HAD A SEVERE -- HE HAD AN UNDERLYING SEVERE HEART DISEASE, IT WEIGHED MORE THAN IT SHOULD, IT NEEDED MORE OXYGEN. HE SAID THAT STRESS WILL ASK YOUR HEART TO BEAT FASTER, AND SO TAKE A LISTEN TO EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN PLAY THAT CLIP. >> SO HAVING DONE ALL OF THAT WITH RESPECT TO MR. FLOYD, DID YOU FIND ANY PREVIOUS DAMAGE TO HIS HEART MUSCLE? >> NO, MR. FLOYD HAD NO VISIBLE OR MICROSCOPIC PREVIOUS DAMAGE TO HIS HEART MUSCLE. >> Reporter: SO THIS SPECIFIC CONVERSATION ABOUT THE HEART IS LIKELY GOING TO GO ON FOR A WHILE, AND EXACTLY BECAUSE THIS IS AT THE CENTER OF THIS CASE AT THE VERY MOMENT AND A DISPUTE BETWEEN THE DEFENSE AND THE PROSECUTORS AT THIS POINT. YOU HEARD ME SAY EARLIER, TERRY, THAT WHEN THESE JURORS WERE TAKING NOTES, WHEN THEY WERE FURIOUSLY SCRIBBLING DOWN WHAT THEY WERE HEARING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY NOTED DOWN VERY CAREFULLY WAS THAT CONVERSATION WHEN THE PROSECUTION ASKED THE DOCTOR, THE PREVIOUS ONE, ABOUT FLOYD'S HEART DAMAGE AND HER ASSESSMENT THAT HE DID NOT DIE FROM A HEART ATTACK. SO A LOT MORE TO COME, THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR, TERRY. >> ALL RIGHT. THIS CRITICAL MOMENT IN THE TRIAL IN MINNEAPOLIS FOR US, THANKS VERY MUCH. >>> LET'S BRING OUR LEGAL PANEL, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR MARKS ONLER, ALSO CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY TAMIKA McCOY. THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU. BEFORE I GET TO YOU, LET'S LISTEN TO ONE THING. WE HAVE HEARD SEVERAL PATHOLOGISTS COMING, INCLUDING THE FORMER ASSISTANT MEDICAL EXAMINER OF HENNEPIN COUNTY, LINDSEY THOMAS, WHO TESTIFIED EARLIER. ALL OF THEM WERE ASKED, YOU KNOW, HOW DID YOU REACH YOUR CONCLUSION AS TO THIS CASE, AND THEY SAID THEY LOOKED AT THE VIDEO. HERE IS THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, ANDREW BAKER, HE IS ON THE WITNESS STAND RIGHT NOW. DID HE LOOK AT THE VIDEO? HERE IS WHAT HE SAID. >> SO LET'S MOVE NOW TO THE SPECIFIC AUTOPSY OF MR. FLOYD. COULD YOU GIVE US SOME SENSE OF WHAT YOU KNEW ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING HIS DEATH BEFORE YOU STARTED YOUR WORK ON MR. FLOYD? >> YES. SO I WAS AWARE THAT MR. FLOYD HAD BECOME UNCONSCIOUS WHILE IN POLICE CUSTODY, THAT HE HAD BEEN TRANSPORTED TO HEN NEPIN HEALTH CARE AND THAT'S WHERE HE WAS PRONOUNCED DEAD. I BELIEVE AT THE TIME I STARTED MY EXAMINATION MY STAFF WAS PROBABLY STILL WORKING TO CONFIRM MR. FLOYD'S IDENTITY AND PROPERLY NOTIFY HIS NEXT OF KIN. THAT WAS BASICALLY THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION THAT I HAD. >> HAD YOU SEEN ANY OF THE VIDEOS AT THE TIME YOU STARTED YOUR WORK? >> I HAD NOT. I WAS AWARE AT LEAST ONE VIDEO HAD GONE VIRAL ON THE INTERNET, BUT I INTENTIONALLY CHOSE NOT TO LOOK AT THAT UNTIL I HAD EXAMINED MR. FLOYD. I DID NOT WANT TO BIAS MY EXAM BY GOING IN WITH ANY PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS THAT MIGHT LEAD ME DOWN ONE PATH OR ANOTHER. >> SO IT WAS SEVERAL DAYS AFTER YOU HAD DONE YOUR WORK ON THE AUTOPSY THAT YOU SAW THE VIDEOS? >> ONE VIDEO I SAW SHORTLY AFTER THE AUTOPSY, AND THAT WAS THE ONE THAT I THINK MOST OF THE PUBLIC HAD SEEN THROUGH FACEBOOK OR OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA. THE OTHER VIDEOS SUCH AS THE CUP SURVEILLANCE VIDEO AND BODY-WORN CAMERA VIDEOS I DID NOT SEE UNTIL THREE OR FOUR DAYS AFTER THE AUTOPSY. >> SO ALL OF THAT DID BECOME PART OF ANDREW BAKER'S EXAMINATION AND CONCLUSION ON THE CAUSE OF DEATH HERE. I'M GOING TO MARK OSLER ON THIS WITNESS. IT IS CLEAR AND THERE IS IN THE RECORD THAT WE ARE GOING TO HEAR, ERIC NELSON PROMISED THE JURY, BACK AND FORTH IN E-MAILS AND NOTES FROM CONFERENCE CALLS BETWEEN THE PROSECUTORS AND THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER. THE PROSECUTORS WANTED A MORE DEFINITIVE DECLARATION THAT THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD WAS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN AND THE OTHER OFFICERS DID. THE BEST THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD DO WITH THEM WAS SAY IT WAS AN INTERACTION BETWEEN THAT AND A VULNERABLE PERSON MEDICALLY. WHAT DID YOU THINK OF HOW JERRY BLACKWELL HANDLED THE DELICATE PROBLEM THE PROSECUTION HAS? >> YES, IT IS A CHALLENGE. THIS IS GOING TO BE THE MOST IMPORTANT EXAMINATION SO FAR FOR THE DEFENSE. WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT ON CROSS-EXAMINATION IT IS NOT JUST IMPEACHMENT, IT IS BRINGING OUT POSITIVE FACTS. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE SEEING ERIC NELSON TRYING TO DO ON THE CROSS-EXAMINATION, IS BRING OUT THE POSITIVE FACTS AND PUMP UP THINGS LIKE THIS NEW FACTOR THAT WAS JUST INTRODUCED, WHICH IS THAT STRESS >> IS AND TO WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE JURY'S DENUCLEARIZATION? LET'S SAY THEY ACCEPT THAT IT WASN'T SOLELY THE ACTIONS OF DEK CHAUVIN. THAT THIS WAS A MEDICALLY VULNERABLE PERSON AND HIS OWN BODY WAS NOT PREPARED FOR THAT KIND OF STRESS. DOES THAT IMPACT AT ALL THEIR DECISION ON WHAT THE DEGREE OF RESPONSIBILITY, CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY DEREK CHAUVIN AS MURDER, MANSLAUGHTER AND THE DEGREES? >> IT HAS AN IMPACT. IT'S TRUE THAT THE JURORS ARE GOING TO CONSIDER EVERYTHING IN TOTALITY. DURING THEIR DELIBERATIONS, EACH OF THE WITNESSES, WHAT THEY TESTIFY TO AND HOW THEY WEIGH, WHAT THEIR DECISION IS GOING TO BE. IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO IDENTIFY THAT EACH JUROR CAN COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION, BUT BY DIFFERENT MEANS. SO IF A JUROR MAY NOT BE SO MOVED BY DR. BAKER'S TESTIMONY BUT FOUND DR. TAYLOR'S TESTIMONY TO BE MORE IMPACTFUL, THEY COULD STILL BE UNANIMOUS IN THEIR ULTIMATE DETERMINATION. THAT'S WHAT'S CRITICAL FOR THE STATE'S CASE. BUT ESSENTIALLY THEY TESTIFIED IN LINE WITH WHAT THEY HEARD FROM SOME OF THE OTHER PROSECUTORS EXPERT WITNESSES. WHAT THAT DOES IS GIVES SOME ADDITIONAL CREDIBILITY. HE WAS NOT EMOTIONALLY MOVED BY SEEING THE VIDEO IMAGES. WHAT THAT DOES IS RUN UP THE SALE OF THE THE DEFENSE. AND REMOVE FROM THE DEFENSE THE ABILITY TO ARGUE SOME OF THESE OTHER MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN POINTING TO AS THE CAUSE. AND ESSENTIALLY, HIGHLIGHT WHAT THE STATE'S EXPERTS ARE POINTING TO. THAT BEING THE A ACTIONS OF THE POLICE IN THIS ENCOUNTER HAVING A SUBSTANTIAL FACTOR IN CAUSING THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. >> AND THAT IS THE GOAL OF THE DEFENSE. HERE ON THIS CROSS-EXAMINATION, DOESN'T ANDREW BAKER LOOK AT THE VIDEO AND MAY HAVE BEEN PART OF HIS CONCLUSION ON THE CAUSE OF DEATH. BUT THE PROSECUTOR SAID IN OPENING STATEMENTS THAT THE CAUSE OF THE DEATH WAS OXYGEN DEPRIVATION. THAT IN FACT, HE WAS CRUSHED TO DEATH BY DEREK SHCHAUVIN'S KNEEN HIS NECK AND THE OTHER OFFICERS. THAT'S THEIR THEORY OF THE CASE. THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER DOESN'T GO THERE. THEY CALLED IN THIS EXPERT PULMONOLOGIST, MARK TOBIN, WHO GAVE THE JURORS THAT OPINION, BUT THIS IS THE ACTUAL OFFICIAL MEDICAL EXAMINER AND HE CAN'T GO WHERE THE PROSECUTION WANTS HIM TO G. >> RIGHT. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS IS THE MEDICAL EXAMINER THAT ALMOST ALWAYS IS ON THE SIDE OF THE GOVERNMENT. AND HERE THIS IS NOT THEIR IDEAL WITNESS ON THAT. DR. TOBIN WAS EXCELLENT. HE WAS UNAMBIGUOUS. HE WAS CLEAR. HE SPOKE SIMPLY. HE MADE A HUGE IMPACT ON THE JURY AND THE TESTIMONY TODAY BY DR. THOMAS REENFORCED THAT. SO THEY WERE SMART TO DO IT IN THIS ORDER. TO LAY THAT GROUNDWORK OF EXPERTS WHO WERE UNAMBIGUOUS BEFORE BRINGING OUT DR. BAKER THAT HE'S BUILT INTO THE ANALYSIS. >> WELL, LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO EXACT LY THAT STRATEGY AND THE WAY THEY HAVE CON STRUKTDED THE CASE. IF YOU HAVE NEVER WATCHED A TRIAL IN THIS LEVEL OF DETAIL, YOU SEE THE CHOICES THE TRIAL LAWYERS MAKE BECAUSE REALLY THE TRIALS ARE A STORY TELLING COMPETITION. LIFE IS A GROUP OF MESSY FACTS AND WHOEVER CAN SHAPE THOSE FACTS RELREBLISS WILL GENERALLYN THE DAY. ONE OF THE CRUCIAL HERE ISSUES, FENTANYL AND WHAT WAS FOUND IN GEORGE FLOYD'S BODY. ARE THEY COMING BACK IN? IS THAT WHAT I'M BEING TOLD? SO FENT ANALYST IS ONE OF THE CRITICAL ISSUES IN THE CASE BECAUSE GEORGE FLOYD, LIKE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, HAD STRUGGLED WITH ADDICTION. SO HERE IS WHAT THE JURORS HEARD ABOUT THE ISSUE OF FENTANYL IN THE AUTOPSY. >> YOU DEPARTMENT MENTION EITHER FENTANYL OR METH IN MR. FLOYD'S SYSTEM. YOU MENTIONED THOSE, BUT YOU DON'T LIST EITHER OF THEM ON THE TOP LINE AS CAUSES OF DEATH. WHY IS THAT? >> THE TOP LINE OF THE CAUSE OF DEATH IS REALLY WHAT YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT PRECIPITATED THE DEATH. OTHER THINGS THAT YOU THINK PLAYED A ROLE IN THE DEATH RE RELEGATED TO KNOWN AS THE SIGNIFICANT CONDITIONS. SO THINGS THAT PLAYED A ROLE, BUT DIDN'T DIRECTLY CAUSE THE DEATH. SO MR. FLOYD'S USE OF FENTANYL DID NOT CAUSE THE NECK RESTRANGT. HIS HEART DISEASE DID NOT CAUSE THE NECK RESTRAINT. >> SO THESE ARE ITEMS THAT MAY HAVE CONTRIBUTED BUT WEREN'T THE DIRECT CAUSE. >> CORRECT. >> LET'S GO BACK TO TAMEKA. THAT'S THE BEST THIS MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD DO FOR THE PROSECUTION TO SAY THAT THE ISSUE OF FENTANYL AND OTHER MEDICAL ISSUES THAT GEORGE FLOYD WAS DEALING WITH DID NOT CAUSE THE RESTRAINT. THE RESTRAINT IS STILL A TRIGGERING FACTOR HERE. BUT I IMAGINE WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY ON THAT FENTANYL WAS THERE AND CAN HAVE THESE IMPACTS ON THE HEART. >> YES, IT DIDN'T RISE TO THE LEVEL OF WHAT THE STATE MAY HAVE WANTED AND SO THAT'S WHY THEY TOOK THEIR POSITION WITH THE OTHER EXPERTS THAT SPEAK TO THE OTHER DIMENSIONS OF THE CASE. BUT IT WAS ENOUGH TO AT LEAST AS I SAID THE WIND OUT OF THE SAILS OF THE THE DEFENSE. HE'S DPOING TO HAVE AN UPHILL BATTLE IN THAT THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS MAY HAVE BEEN MORE SIGNIFICANT. AND REMEMBER FOR THE DEFENSE, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS SEND AT LEAST ONE JUROR INTO THAT DELIBERATION ROOM WITH CAUSE AS TO WHAT REALLY CAUSED THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. AND THEY DO HAVE SOMETHING MORE TO WORK WITH NOW, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED BY THE PROSECUTION'S CASE MAY BE ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY GET THEM OVER THAT HURDLE. >> AND THE JURORS HAVE HEARD A LOT ABOUT. THANK YOU. THEY HAVE HEARD A LOT ABOUT GEORGE FLOYD'S STRUGGLES. SO THERE ARE HARDLY ANY AMERICAN FAMILIES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN TOUCHED BY THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC OR THE OTHER ADDICTIONS THAT SO MANY PEOPLE DO STRUGGLE WITH. THAT'S PART OF THE CASE THE JURORS ARE PART OF OF THE SOCIETY THEY WILL UNDERSTAND THAT. AND THEY ARE BACK IN. ERIC NELSON, TO CROSS EXAMINE. >> AND AND THEY HAVE JUST A MOMENT. >> SO DR. BAKER THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. JUST SOME FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS I KIND OF WANT TO BREAK UP INTO TWO DIFFERENT SECTIONS. AND EVENTS HAPPENING. AND SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE TESTIFIED IN MANY CASES AND YOU HAVE COUNTY BEFORE. >> YES. >> SCOTT COUNTY AS WELL. >> NOT NEARLY AS MUCH, BUT YES. AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AS PART OF THE THE PROCESS OF EXCHANGING INFORMATION THE DEFENSE RECEIVE ISES COPIES OF EVERYTHING. YOUR REPORTS, MEETING NOTES, PRIOR STATEMENTS THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. >> YES. >> AND HAVE YOU HAD OPPORTUNITIES IT REVIEW ALL OF THAT INFORMATION PRIOR TO THE TESTIMONY TODAY? >> TO THE BEST OF ANY KNOWLEDGE, YES. >> AND ULTIMATELY WHAT YOU TESTIFIED IS IN A DEATH INVESTIGATION, IT'S MUCH MORE THAN JUST SIMPLY AN AUTOPSY. >> CORRECT. >> IN FACT, IF YOU PULL YOUR FILE, IT'S USUALLY A FEW INCHES THICK. >> IT'S THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE. >> I GUESS IT WOULD BE. >> THAT'S WHAT I DID. AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS. >> I GUESS I'M GOING TO GET WITH THE TIMES. BUT ULTIMATELY THAT FILE CONTAINS YOUR AUTOPSY REPORT. >> CORRECT. >> THAT DEATH CERTIFICATE OF THE PAPERWORK THAT YOU FILL OUT FOR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA. >> YES. WE DON'T ACTUALLY GET A COPY OF THE DEATH CERTIFICATE FROM THE STATE, BUT EVERYTHING WE PUT ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IS IN OUR FILE. >> AND THEN YOU ALSO KEEP TRACK OF CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU HAVE WITH PEOPLE. RIGHT? >> GENERALLY, YES. THAT'S USUALLY MORE MY INVESTIGATORS THAT ARE TALKING TO FAMILY, TREATING PHYSICIANS, HOSPITAL RECORDS, DEPARTMENTS AND STUFF. >> SO YOU KEEP A LOG, SO TO SPEAK, OF TODAY, INVESTIGATORS SO AND SO, SPOKE WITH THE AND AGAIN, I DON'T PERSONALLY DO THAT BUT MY INVESTIGATORS DO. >> THIS IS A PART OF MY FILE. >> IN ADDITION YOU OBTAINED ANY KNOWN MEDICAL RECORDS OF THAT MAY FACTOR INTO YOUR ANALYSIS AS WELL. >> YES. >> PREVIOUS AND RECEIVED SOME HOSPITAL RECORDS RECORDING MR. FLOYD. >> CORRECT. >> BUT YOU DON'T GO OUT AND TRY TO SEARCH AND PERHAPS DO TRY TO SEARCH FOR EVERY PROVIDER THAT HE OR THAT ANY PERSON CAN RELATE. >> IN MOST CASES THAT'S CORRECT. IT WOULDN'T BE A LOT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET EVERY MEDICAL. AND MAYBE IF I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AND THAT'S BETTER. >> FAIR ENOUGH. >> NOW I WANT TO TALK TO YOU FIRST ABOUT THE WORD ACCO COMPLICATING. HOW DO YOU DEFINE THE WORD COMPLICATING AS WE USED IT AS TO THE CAUSE OF MR. FLOYD'S DEATH. >> I USE THE WORD COMPLICATING THE WORD MOST PHYSICIANS USE COMPLICATIONS. I'M GUESSING MOST HAVE THAT A PATIENT KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN BY COMPLICATIONS. IT MEANS THAT AN INTERVENTION OCCUR RED AND THERE WAS AN OUTCOME THAT WAS ON THE HEELS OF THAT INTERVENTION. SO FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEBODY GOES INTO THE HOSPITAL FOR HIP SURGERY AND THEY DEVELOP A BLOOD CLOT IN THEIR LEG. THAT'S A COMPLICATION. YOU GET STARTED ON A NEW MEDICATION FOR A HEART CONDITION AND YOU HAVE AN ALLERGIC REACTION TO IT. THAT'S A COMPLICATION. SO IT'S AN UNTOURED EVENT ON THE HEELS OF AN INTERVENTION THAT HAPPENED. THAT'S HOW I LOOK AT IT AS A PHYSICIAN. >> AND IT COULD BE DURING AN INCIDENT OR AS A RESULT OF AN INCIDENT. >> AGAIN, WE DON'T USUALLY WORD THE USE INCIDENT IN MEDICAL PRACTICE, BUT IT COULD BE AN IMMEDIATE COMPLICATION OF A MEDICAL INTERVENTION OR THERAPY OR IT COULD BE A DELAYED COMPLICATION. >> THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES THAT PRECEDE THOSE COMPLICATIONS. >> THAT'S THE RULE. I WONDER IF YOU CAN -- >> IN ANY DEATH INVESTIGATION, YOU'RE TRYING TO DETERMINE THE CAUSE OF THE MANNER OF DEATH. >> CORRECT. >> AND THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU OBVIOUSLY TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THE POLICE RESTRAINT. >> CORRECT. >> BUT YOU ALSO TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THE HEART DISEASE. >> YES. >> AS WELL AS THE TOXICOLOGY RESULTS. AGREED? >> YES. >> AND YOU FACTORED THOSE IN IN YOUR CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH AND THEN THERE'S THE SECOND THING YOU LEFT BLANK AND THEN THERE'S THE CONTRIBUTING CAUSES. AND THE DETERMINE OF THOSE SIGNIFICANT CONDITIONS IS WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT. THAGS SIMPLGLY JUST SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO DO FOR THE CDC OR DID YOU TAKE THOSE INTO CONSIDERATION AS CONTRIBUTING TO THE CAUSE OF DEATH. >> SO WHEN YOU PUT THOSE ON A DEATH CERTIFICATE, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS I THINK THESE PLAYED SOME ROLE IN THAT DEATH. THEY HAD A CONTRIBUTING CONDITION. UNAWARE OF HOW THE CDC WOULD MANDATE. THE GOAL IS YOU PUT THINGS ON YOU BELIEVE ARE RELEVANT. YOU DON'T LIST TRIVIAL STUFF THAT DIDN'T PLAY A ROLE. >>. >> SO IF SOMETHING WAS SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH, YOU PUT IT ON. IF IT'S INSIGNIFICANT AND DIDN'T CONTRIBUTE, YOU LEAVE IT OFF. >> GENERALLY, YES. >> AND SO IN YOUR OPINION, BOTH HEART DISEASE AS WELL AS THE HISTORY OF HYPERTENSION AND THE DRUGS THAT WERE IN HIS SYSTEM PLAYED A ROLE IN MR. FLOYD'S DEATH. >> IN MY OPINION, YES. >> ALL RIGHT. NOW AGAIN IN TERMS OF YOUR AUTOPSY REPORT, YOU DON'T GENERALLY NOTE NEGATIVE FINDINGS, RIGHT? IF SOMETHING IS NORMAL, YOU MAY JUST SAY IT'S NORMAL. BUT YOU WOULDN'T TAKE SPECIAL NOTE TO SAY THE HEART IS COMPLETELY PERFECTLY NORMAL. >> THAT'S A REALLY LONG QUESTION, BUT I THINK I CAN GIVE YOU A REASONABLE ANSWER TO THAT. FOR MOST NORMAL ORGANS, WE HAVE HAVE A BOILERPLATE DESCRIPTION FOR WHAT THAT ORGAN IS. IF A SPLEEN IS NORMAL, I'M GOING TO GIVE A NORMAL DESCRIPTION OF THE SPLEEN WITH THE WEIGHT OF THAT SPLEEN. THE SAME FOR A LIVER. DEPENDING ON THE NATURE OF A PARTICULAR CASE, THERE ARE, I USED THIS TERM EARLIER, PERTINENT NEGATIVES. THINGS YOU THINK MIGHT BE ON THE BODY BASED ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES SO YOU SEEK THOSE THINGS OUT. IF THEY ARE NOT THERE, YOU DOCUMENT THEM BECAUSE THE FACT THEY ARE NOT PRESENT REALLY MEANS SOMETHING. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE NORMAL, BUT THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS NORMAL AND WE GO ON TO THE NEXT STEP OF THE AUTOPSY. SOME THINGS DEPENDING ON THE CASE, THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT THERE YOU'RE GOING TO DWELLEN THAT AND TAKE A PICTURE. WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO TO DOCUMENT THAT YOU SPECIFICALLY LOOKED FOR SOMETHING AND IT WASN'T THERE. >> SO IN THAT REGARD, IF YOU NOTE SOMETHING, WHETHER IT'S ODD OR IRREGULAR OR THE NEGATIVE, YOU TAKE SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS SO YOU DON'T PUT THAT IN THE AUTOPSY. >> IDEALLY, YES. NOT ONLY DO YOU DOCUMENT THAT IN YOUR NARRATIVE REPORT, BUT YOU TAKE A PICTURE OF THINGS THAT ARE THERE AND YOU DOCUMENT THINGS THAT AREN'T THERE THAT PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED TO BE THERE. >> AND IT WAS INTERESTING TO ME THAT YOU MADE A CONSCIENCE DECISION NOT TO WATCH VIDEOS BEFORE YOU PERFORMED THE AUTOPSY. CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> AND THAT WAS TO PREVENT BIAS YOU DESCRIBED? >> GENERALLY, YES. I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO AN AUTOPSY WITH A PRECONCEIVED NOTION I ALREADY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE THAT MIGHT TEMPT YOU TO SKIP CERTAIN STEPS OR NOT DO CERTAIN THINGS THAT MIGHT TURN OUT TO BE RELEVANT. SO FULL DISCLOSURE, TO FULLY ANSWER THE QUESTION, DAY SEE THE VISDEO THAT THE WORLD SAW LATER THAT DAY AFTER MR. FLOYD'S AUTOPSY. I DID NOT RELEASE HIS BODY UNTIL THE FOLLOWING MORNING, SO I HAD SEEN SOMETHING ON THE VIDEO THAT TRIGGERED ANOTHER THOUGHT, I STILL HAD THE CHANCE TO ACT ON IT. BUT I DEPARTMENT WANT THAT TO BE IN MY MIND WHEN I PHYSICALLY PERFORMED HIS AUTOPSY ON THE MORNING OF THE 26th. >> UNDERSTOOD. BUT YOU HAD SETHED SOME BRIEFING FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT OR FROM SOMEBODY TO SAY HERE'S GENERAL LY WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. >> IT WAS PRETTY HIGH LEVEL, BUT YES, I DGOT A PHONE CALL THAT A MAN HAD GONE UNRESPONSIVE WHILE BEING RESTRAINED. HE HAD DIED AT THE MEDICAL CENTER. AND THAT WAS LARGELY WHAT I KNEW GOING INTO THE AUTOPSY. I BELIEVE I WAS AWARE THAT THEREBY HAD BEEN PRESSURE APPLY, BUT THAT'S WHAT I KNEW GOING INTO THE AUTOPSY. >> SO YOU TOOK SPECIAL -- BECAUSE YOU LEARNED THERE WAS POTENTIAL PRESSURE TO THE NECK, IT TOOK SPECIAL STEPS TO LOOK AT THE NECK AREA, SHOULDERS, ET CETERA. >> YES. >> BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU DID THIS UNIQUE INCISION TO LIFT THE SKIN OFF TO LOOK UNDER THE SURFACE. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT IN A SECOND. >> YOU DID NOTE, I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE HEART FOR A LITTLE BIT. YOU NOTED THAT THE HEART WAS DIELATED. >> YES. >> WHAT CAUSES THAT? >> SO DIELATED IS JUST FANCY MEDICAL LINT DPOE FOR HAS GOTTEN A LITTLE BIGGER THAN IT USED TO BE. WHEN YOU BLOW UP A BALLOON, IT DIE LATES. MR. FLOYD'S HEART WAS IF I CAN REFER TO MY REPORTREPORT. AND SO I DESCRIBED THE VENN TRY CALLS WHICH ARE THE TWO MAIN PUMPING CHAMBERS AND IT WAS DIELATED IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE. THAT WOULD BE PART IN PARCEL WITH THE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. THAT'S A MANIFESTATION OF THE HEART GETTING BIGGER AND HEAVIER AS IT WORKS AGAINST THAT HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. >> YOU ALSO TOOK NOTE OF THE SIZE OF MR. FLOYD'S HEART, RIGHT? >> IT'S ACTUALLY THE WEIGHT, BUT YES. ABSOLUTELY DID TAKE NOTE OF THE WEIGHT. >> AND THAT WAS 540 GRAMS. >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE PAPERS ON THE NORMAL HEART SIZE? >> I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE PAPER, ALTHOUGH THE ONE I USUALLY USE IS FROM THE MAYO CLINIC. >> WHAT'S THE MAXIMUM SIZE OF A HEART UNDER THAT STANDARD? >> SO THE PAPER NORMALIZES HEART WEIGHTS AS A FUNCTION OF YOUR BODY LENGTH AND YOUR BODY WEIGHT BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, A LARGE PERSON IS GOING TO HAVE A LARGER HEART. SO YOU DON'T WANT TO PENALIZE PEOPLE FOR BEING TOO BIG OR SMALL. SO MR. FLOYD'S CASE IS IN THE UPPER LIMIT OF NORMAL FOR HIS BODY LENGTH ACCORDING TO THE REFERENCE THAT I USE IS 510 GRAMS. THE UPPER LIMIT OF NORMAL FOR HIS BODY WEIGHT WOULD BE 521 GRAMS. HE'S OUTSIDE THE UPPER LEIMIT O NORMAL. THAT MEANS ON THE SHAPED DISTRIBUTION OF HEART AND WEIGHTS FOR A MAN HIS SIZE, HE'S ON THE TAIL END. >> AND ALL OF THESE VARIOUS STANDARDS IN TERMS OF THE WEIGHT OF A HEART, THEY ARE PEER REVIEW? >> AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES. THE REFERENCE I USE IS FROM THE MAYO CLINIC PROCEEDINGS WHICH I'M GOING TO ASSUME IS PEER REVIEWED. >> AS WOULD BE THE MAYO OR THE NORTHWESTERN STUDIES OR ANY OF THESE OTHER STUDIES? >> I'M UNFAMILIAR WITH THE OTHER STUDIES, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S PUBLISHED IN THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF MEDICINE AND PATHOLOGIST, WHICH I KNOW TO BE PEER REVIEWED. >> AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT THE LARGER THE HEART IS, THE MORE BLOOD IT NEEDS TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE OXYGENATION. >> AS A GENERAL RULE, YES. >> WHAT TYPES OF THINGS CAUSE A PERSON TO BE BIGGER THAN NORMAL. >> THE MOST COMMON CAUSE BY FAR IN ADULTS IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD WOULD BE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. AND THEY ARE A NUMBER OF FAR CAUSES IN THE DISEASE COULD DO IT IF THE HEART IS PUMPING AGAINST THE VALVE. THERE ARE GENETIC CAUSES OF AN ENLARGED HEART. AND THE HEART GROSSLY AND MICROSCOPICALLY. THOSE ARE FARTHER DOWN THE LISTS. AND IS NUMBER ONE BY A LONG SHOT. >> BASED ON YOUR REVIEW OF THE MEDICAL RECORDS, YOU DETERMINED THAT HE HAS A HISTORY OF HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, CORRECT? >> THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL TO LEARN THAT FROM HIS MEDICAL RECORDS. HE WAS KNOWN TO BE HYPERTENSIVE. >> CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE SENATOR ROARING OF THE STENO SIS OF THE ARTERIES IN MORE DETAIL. >> I CAN IF I MAY REFER TO MY REPORT AGAIN. SO AS I MENTIONED, WHEN I WAS DESCRIBING PHOTOGRAPHS EARLIER, HE HAD 75% PROXIMAL AND 75% MID-NARROWING OF HIS LEFT CORONARY ARTERY. MOST PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE THE LARGEST OF THE THREE ARTERIES. HE HAD 75% NARROWING OF THE FIRST DIAGONAL BRANCH OF HIS SORT NAR ARTERY AND THEN IN THE RIGHT ARTERY, WHICH MOST PEOPLE IS THE SECOND LARGEST, HE HAD 90% PROXIMAL NARROWING. >> AND WHAT DO THEY CONSIDER TO BE ENOUGH SENNARROWING OF THE ARTERIES TO CAUSE A SUDDEN DEATH? >> WE USUALLY LOOK TO 75% GREATER AS THE CAPABLE OF CAUSING SUDDEN DEATH. >> ARE YOU PARTICULAR WITH THE? >> YES. >> DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT TO CAUSE THE SUDDEN DEATH. >> NO, YOU DO NOT. >> AND ARRHYTHMIA WOULD BE CLOSE. >> SO THE ARRHYTHMIA IS AN ELECTRICAL PHENOMENON. I CAN NEVER DIAGNOSE THAT POSTMORTEM. WE HAVE TO INFER THAT FROM THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND FROM THE CONDITION OF THE CORONARIES. >> AND WHEN WE DESCRIBED HYPOXIA OF THE HEART, THAT'S THE REDUCTION OF OXYGEN TO THE HEART, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> CAN YOU -- CAN HYPOXIA TO THE HEART CAUSE SUDDEN DEATH BY OTHER MEANS? >> OR ARE WE JUST DOING THE ARRHYTHMIA. >> THERE'S MANY WAYS THAT A LACK OF OXYGEN TO THE HEART COULD CAUSE DEATH. ONE COULD BE A PERSON'S HEART GOES TO A NORMAL BEAT TO A NONPROFUSING BEAT AND THE PERSON WOULD JUST COLLAPSE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. DEPENDING ON THE NATURE OF THE CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE, A PERSON COULD HAVE A THROMBOSIS BTO PRESENT TO THE EMERGENCY ROM WITH CRUSHING CHEST PAP PAIN AND DIFFICULTY BREATHING. THAT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT MECHANISM OF DEATH. BUT IT'S NOT GETTING ENOUGH OXYGEN AND IT'S A SUDDEN COLLAPSE OF DEATH. >> AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE CAN SURVIVE THAT FOR A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME. >> SURVIVE? >> THE THROMBOSIS YOU JUST DESCRIBED. >> THAT WOULD BE CORRECT. >> I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS, BUT OBVIOUSLY, PEOPLE CAN AND DO SURVIVE THE CORONARY ARTERIES. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE DRUGS AND CARDIOLOGISTS ON CALL FOR STUFF LIKE THAT. >> GOTCHA. >> NOW CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE CONDUCTIONS OF SOME OF THE HEART AND ONLY IN THE I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THE CASE. SGLZ AND OTHER PEOPLE I RELY ON FOR THAT. BUT IT'S BASICALLY THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM IN THE HEART. THERE'S A PART OF YOUR HEART CALLED THE NODE AND THAT'S LIKE THE LITTLE WATCH IN YOUR HEART THAT STARTS EVERY HEARTBEAT. YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT IT'S DOINGEN AN EKG IF YOU'RE WORKING ON A TRACINGER. THAT'S CONDUCTED TO ANOTHER NODE THAT'S KNOWN AS THE AV NOTE. AND THEN THE IMPULSES GO OUT FROM THAT TO THE VENN TRY CALL THAT CAUSE THEM TO BEAT. YOU CAN SEE THE CONDUCTION SYSTEM OF THE MICROSCOPE IF YOU TAKE IT OUT AND LOOK FOR IT. AND THERE'S A VERY RARE OCCASIONS WE DO THAT AND WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN NECESSARY IN MR. FLOYD'S CASE, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE SYSTEM DOES. >> IF IT'S IMPAIRED, WHAT HAPPENS? >> I'D HAVE TO DEFER TO A CARDIOLOGIST. THERE'S SO MANY WAYS IT CAN BE IMPAIRED. SOMETIMES IT'S BE NINE. SOMETIMES A PERSON MIGHT NEED A PACEMAKER OR A DEFBI RI LATER. IT DEPENDS ON THE NATURE OF THE DERANGEMENT. >> WHICH OF THE ARTERY SUPPLIES THE FIRST ONE BE? >> I BELIEVE IT'S A SMALL BRANCH OF THE RIGHT CORONARY ARTERY IN MOST PEOPLE. >> IS THAT THE ONE 90%. >> NOT THE BRANCH, I DIDN'T ABOUT THE BRANCH, BUT THE MAIN RIGHT CORONARY ARTERY IS 90% NARROWED. >> YOU'RE AWARE OF THE METHAMPHETAMINE FOUND IN MR. FLOYD'S SYSTEM? >> YES. >> DOES METHAMPHETAMINE FURTHER CONSTRICT THE MUSCLES AND ARTERIES? >> I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THE SPECIFIC TOXICOLOGY OF METHAMPHETAMINE. IT'S CERTAINLY HARD ON YOUR HEART IN THE SENSE THAT IT DOES THINGS LIKE DRIVE UP THE HEART RATE AND BLOOD PRESSURE. I ADOPT KNOW IF IT'S A CONSTRICTOR. BUT IN EITHER WAY, AS A GENERAL RULE, FOR FORENSIC PATHOLOGY, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR A DAMAGED HEART. >> IS THE AMOUNT OF THE LEVEL OF THE TOX LOGICAL FINDINGS AFFECT WHETHER IT'S GOOD FOR THE HEART OR BAD FOR THE HEART? >> I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A SCIENTIFIC ANSWER BECAUSE I'M NOT AWARE THAT THERE'S A SAFE LEVEL OF METHAMPHETAMINE. >> ESPECIALLY IN THIS, CORRECT? >> NO SAFE LEVEL OF THE STREET DRUG. >> I'M VERY UNFAMILIAR WITH ANY MEDICAL USE FOR METHAMPHETAMINE. I'M AWARE AMPHETAMINE IS USED. THAT'S NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE. ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, METHAMPHETAMINE IS NOT GOOD IF YOU HAVE BAD CORONARY ARTERIES. >> AND EXERTION ALSO CAUSES THE HEART TO WORK HARDER? >> CORRECT. >> AND WOULD REQUIRE MORE OXYGEN? >> CORRECT. >> OR BLOOD HAS TO PUMP THROUGH. >> CORRECT. >> SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE HAVE MR. FLOYD'S HEART. >> HE HAS A HEART WITH NARROWED ARTERIES. >> THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF A PREVIOUS EXERTION PRIOR TO THE DECEASED. >> WE'RE GETT TING OUTSIDE THE AUTOPSY NOW, BUT THERE WAS A PERIOD OF EXERTION PRIOR TO THAT. >> IN TERMS OF YOUR INVESTIGATION, YOU ULTIMATELY DID WATCH THE VIDEOS. >> CORRECT. >> INCLUDING THE BODY WORN C CAMERAS OF OF THE OFFICERS. >> YES. >> AND DID YOU ALSO PROVIDED WITH OTHER VIDEOS IN TERMS OF SURVEILLANCE VIDEOS, ADDITIONAL BYSTANDER VIDEOS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. >> I WAS. >> WERE YOU PROVIDED WITH INVESTIGATIVE MATERIALS THAT PEOPLE SAID HAPPENED? >> NO, I DID NOT HAVE THOSE. >> OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER CERTIFIED A DEATH DUE TO HYPERTENSIVE CARDIO? >> YES. THE TERM IS FANCY MEDICAL LINGO FOR THE HEART IS TOO BIG BECAUSE OF HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. WE DON'T KNOW USE THAT TERM. WE USE HARDSHIP TENSIVE CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE, BUT YES, I HAVE USED THAT OR SIMILAR TERMINOLOGY. >> HAVE YOU EVER CERTIFIED A DEATH DUE TO CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE? >> YES. >> SIMILAR NARROWINGS OF THE ARTERIES COMPARED TO MR. FLOYD? >> YES. >> IN TERMS OF THE INJURIES TO MR. FLOYD, THE ABRASIONS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, OBVIOUSLY, IT APPEARED TO BE FRESHER TOO. >> THEY APPEAR TO BE FRESH, BUT I WANT TO BE CAREFUL IN MY ANSWER. THERE'S NOT ANY LITERATURE THAT DATES THAT INJURY. PRESUMABLY THERE'S CONTEXTUAL DATA TO HAY LOW THAT FLOYD DIDN'T HAVE THOO THOSE ABRASIONS AN HOUR BEFORE HE DIED. IF YOU SHOWED ME THOSE BLINDLY, COULD I TELL YOU HOW OLDER THEY ARE, NO, NOT WITH ANY PRECISION. >> IN TERM OFTS ABRASIONS THAT WE LOOKED AT ON MR. FLOYD'S BODY, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN FROM A PERIOD OF TIME HE WAS RESTRAINED ON THE GROUND. >> CORRECT. >> HE COULD HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT WITH THE PERIOD OF TIME HE WAS TAKEN TO THE GROUND OR BROUGHT TO THE GROUND. >> SOME OF THOSE WOULD TAKE A FAIRLY ROUGH SURFACE TO PRODUCE. POLICE OFFICERS BROUGHT MR. FLOYD TO THE GROUND. THE MOMENT OF IMPACT OF THE GROUND COULD HAVE RESULTED IN SOME OF THOSE ABRASIONS. >> WOULD YOU MIND REPEATING THE QUESTION? >> SURE. SOME OF THE ABRASIONS WE LOOKED A AT. IT WOULD ALSO BE LIKE WISE CONSISTENT WITH MR. FLOYD BEING TAKEN OUT OF A POLICE CAR AND PUT ON TO THE GROUND. >> YES, DEPEND ING ON HOW HE MAE CONTACT WITH THE GROUND, THE DIRECTION OF MOTION IS CORRECT AND THERE'S ENOUGH FORCE, YES, THAT CONTACT COULD EXPLAIN THOSE ABRASIONS. >> WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THE GENERAL PROPOSITION THAT THE PRONE POSITION IS NOT DANGEROUS? >> AS FAR AS I KNOW BASED ON MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE MEDICAL LITERATURE, THAT'S TRUE. >> IN TERMS OF YOUR AUTOPSY REPORT, THERE'S NO DISSECTED MR. FLOYD'S SHOULDER AND NECK AREA. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> AND YOU FOUND NO BLEEDING INTO THE TISSUES OF THE NECK AND BACK. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> THERE'S NO BLEEDING INTO THE MUSCLES OF THE BACK? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SECTION IN YOUR AUTOPSY REPORT TO DESCRIBE ANY INJURIES WHATSOEVER TO FLOYD'S NECK AND BACK LIKE YOU DO OTHER AREAS OF THE REPORT. >> THAT'S NOT TRUE. THERE'S A SPECIAL PARAGRAPH SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBED ME DISSECTING HIS BACK AND NOT FINDING ANYTHING. >> AND YOU TOOK PICTURES OF THAT AS WELL. >> CORRECT. >> AND ALL OF THOSE PROCEDURES WERE DOCUMENTED IN THE NORMAL COURSE OF HOW YOU CONDUCT AN AUTOPSY. >> YES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE PHOTOGRAPHED. >> YOU DID THAT IS OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW IN YOUR WORK, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE HAVE DONE THAT. >> YES. >> NOW YOU HAVE I'M ASSUMING YOU CONDUCTED MANY AUTOPSIES IN YOUR CAREER. >> I HAVE. >> HOLDW MANY AUTOPSIES HAVE YO CONDUCTED? >> I HAVE NEVER KEPT A SPREAD SHEET, BUT I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 2,900 TO 3 THOURGS. 3,000. >> YOU HAVE DONE OTHER OCCUPATIONS WHERE ASPHYXIATION WAS THE SUSPECTED CAUSE OF D DEATH? >> YES, ASPHYXIA IS A COMMON CAUSE OF DEATH IN MY LINE OF WORK. >> WE SEE IT MANIFEST ITSELF IN MANY WAYS. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> AND THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU LOOK FOR IN THE COURSE OF YOUR AUTOPSY TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THIS DEATH WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH ASPHYXIATION. >> YES AND NO. IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF ASPHYXIA YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. THERE ARE MANY WAYS THAT HUMAN BEINGS DIE OF ASPHYXIA. SO WE WANT TO KNOW THE TYPE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. BECAUSE THE SIGNS ARE GOING TO VARY FROM ONE TYPE TO ANOTHER. >> INCLUDING YOU LOOK AT THE BRAIN FOR SIGNS OF LACK OF OX OXYGEN. >> WE DO, BUT THE PERSON HAS TON SURVIVE THE BRAIN INJURY FOR A CONSIDERABLE PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE WE CAN SEE ANYTHING. IN MOST OF THE ASPHYXIAS WE INVESTIGATE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE ANY ACUTE CHANGES IN THE BRAIN. >> YOU LOOK FOR MUSCLE LARCENY SKELETAL CHANGES TO THE BODY. SO YOU MAY LOOK FOR S AASPHYXIA FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK, BROKEN BONES. >> CORRECT, WE'RE LOOK ING AT THINGS LIKE THE MUSCLES OF THE NECK, THE BONE AND THINGS LIKE STRANGULATIONS AND HANGINGS WHERE THERE'S PRESSURE ON THE NECK. >> AND YOU FORMED SOME OPINIONS ULTIMATELY ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE AND WHETHER THE PRESSURE WAS APPLIED TO THE NECK, RIGHT? >> CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC? >> ULTIMATELY, YOU HAVE YOUR CAUSE OF DEATH. >> CORRECT. >> AND PART OF THE CAUSE OF DEATH. >> IN THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH VARIOUS PROSECUTORS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS YOU AFTER WATCHING THE VIDEO, YOU MADE SOME STATEMENTS ABOUT WHERE YOU THOUGHT MR. CHAUVIN'S KNEE WAS PLACED. >> YES. >> DID YOU FEEL THAT MR. CHAUVIN'S KNEE WAS COME PRESSING HIS NECK? >> YES. >> DID YOU DESCRIBE IT AS BEING MORE ON THE BACK OR IN THIS LOWER PART OF THE NECK? >> SO IN MY IMPRESSION FROM THE VIDEO, I WANT TO BE CLEAR. I HAVE NO SPECIAL, PER TEES IN LOOKING AT VIDEOS. I'M JUST LOOK ING AT THEM AS ANOTHER PERSON TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED. IN MY OPINION, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT MR. CHAUVIN'S KNEE WAS ON THE BACK OR THE SIDE OR THE AREA IN BETWEEN ON MR. FLOYD'S NECK. >> DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS ACOLLUDING THE CURRENT B? >> IT DID NOT APPEAR TO ME ON THE VIDEO THAT HIS KNEE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OCCLUDE THE CARATED ARTERY. IT WOULD CONTINUE TO SUPPLY BLOOD TO THE BRAIN. >> WHEN YOU LOOK AT DEATHS BY MANUAL STRANGULATION, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ALSO ARE LOOKING FOR BRUISING? >> YES. >> YOU'RE LOOKING FOR BRUISING, DO YOU CONSIDER BRUISING IN A MAJORITY OF YOUR CASES OR NOT A MAJORITY OF YOUR CASES? >> KEEP IN MIND, MY PATIENTS ARE ALL DECEASED. SO IF MY PATIENTS WERE STR STRANGLED, IT WAS SO SIGNIFICANT THAT THEY DIED. I SAY THAT BECAUSE IF YOU WERE TO ASK AN ER DOCTOR, YOU MIGHT GET A DIFFERENT ANSWER. IN MY WORLD WE TYPICALLY SEE BRUISES ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE NECK. WE SEE ABRASIONS ON THE NECK. WE SEE BRUISES TO THE SMALL MUSCLES OF THE NECK. DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF STRANGULATION AND HOW OLD THE PERSON WAS, WE SEE CARTILAGE AND BONE. WE OFTEN SEE THAT AS WELL. WHICH LINING OF THE EYES AND THE LIPS AND THE INSIDE OF THE MOUTH. >> DID YOU OBSERVE ANY OF THOSE SIGNS IN THIS CASE? >> NO, DID DID NOT. >> IN TERMS OF WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE CLASSIC STRANGULATION, TAKING MY FINGERS AND HANDS AND APPLYING PRESSURE TO THE NECK, EVEN THE SMALL FINGERS, YOU'D EXPECT TO SEE BRUISES CONSISTENT WITH THE SIZE OF MY FINGERS. >> AGAIN, IN MY LINE OF WORK, WE SEE BRUISES. YOU DID SAY CONSISTENT WITH THE SIZE OF YOUR FINGERS. THAT MIGHT BE TRUE ON TELEVISION SHOWS, WITH BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, THERE'S NOT A THE LOT OF CORRELATION BETWEEN THE SIZE OF BRUISES AND THE SIZE OF THE HANDS. BUT WE ARE LOOKING FOR THOSE BRUISES. >> IN TERMS OF IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE PLACEMENT OF THE KNEE, THE BONEY, HARD, ROUND OBJECT, RIGHT? >> YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY CONCENTRATED RIGHT ON TO THE KNEECAP WITH THE FORCE. >> THE SHINBONE IS JUST BELOW THE SKIN. >> YES. >> IT MAKES A TRIANGULAR IN ITS NATURE. >> ON THE CROSS SECTION, YES. >> SO IF A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF FORCE IS BEING USED WHERE THE KNEE OR SHINBONE ON THE NECK OR BACK AREA IN YOUR LINE OF WORK, AND TRACK FORCE SUFFICIENT TO ASPHYXIATE, WOULD YOU EXPECT TO SEE BRUISING? >> I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE BRUISING, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THE LACK OF BRUISING EXCLUDES THAT. YOU AND I KIND OF JUST PIVOTED FROM STRANGULATION, WHICH IS REALLY PRESSURE TO THE FRONT OF THE NECK TO THE PRESSURE AT THE BACK OF THE NECK. THAT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE SEE AS MEDICAL EXAMINERS PRESSURE TO THE BECOME OF THE NECK EXPLAINING A STRANGULATION. >> OR ASPHYXIATION. >> CORRECT. >> SO IS THERE ANY OBJECTIVE MEDICAL FINDING IN YOUR AUTOPSY THAT SHOWS A IS SUFFICIENT OR SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PRESSURE TO THE BACK? >> AGAIN, I DID NOT FIND ANY INJURIES TO MR. FLOYD'S BACK. NOT ON THE OUTSIDE OF HIS BODY, NOT THE SOFT TISSUE USHD HIS SKIN. I DEPARTMENT FIND ANY BRUISES ON HIS BACK. >> DID YOU FIND ANY CHANGES TO MR. FLOYD'S BRAIN? >> I DID NOT. BUT A PERSON HAS TO SURVIVE FOR MANY HOURS BEFORE WE COULD SEE THOSE. >> YOU GENERALLY FAMILIAR WITH A HIGH POXIC DEATH? >> IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE NATURE OF THE ASPHYXIA. IN MY WORLD, ASPHYXIA IS HANGINGS, DROWNINGS, THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT WAYS PEOPLE CAN BE ASPHYXIATE D. IT DEPENDS ON WHICH MECHANISM YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. >> GENERALLY REGARDING THE MEDICAL CHANISM, WOULD YOU GENE SEE SYMPTOMS CONSISTENT WITH HYPOXIA? WOULD A PERSON EXHIBIT CERTAIN SYMPTOMS? >> SYMPTOMS IS A LITTLE OUTSIDE, BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIVING PEOPLE. I DON'T TREAT LIVING PEOPLE. >> SO DR. THOMAS, WHO JUST TESTIFIED, WOULD TESTIFY THAT YOU MAY SEE CONFUSION WHEN SOMEONE IS GOING INTO A HIGH POXIC STATE. >> OBJECTION. >> I'LL REPHRASE. >> YOUR ROLE AS A MEDICAL EXAMINER, YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION INFORMATION FROM LOTS OF DIFFERENT SOURCES. >> THAT'S TRUE. >> THERE WILL BE CASES WHERE YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. YOU CAN'T FIGURE SOMETHING OUT. >> COULD YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC? >> YOU HAVE SOME SORT OF TROPICAL DISEASE. I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE NOT A TROPICAL DISEASE OR INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT, RIGHT? >> I'M CERTAINLY NOT AN EXPERT IN TROPICAL DISEASES. WE DO A LOT OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES. >> IF THERE'S SOME DISEASE, YOU MAY GO TO ANOTHERERN AND ASK THAT PERSON'S OPINION. >> OBJECTION. IN TERMS OF RELEVANCE AND BEYOND THE SCOPE. >> THE SCOPE IS OVERRULED. RELEVANCE IS SUSTAINED. >> DO YOU RELY ON THE EXPERTISE OF OTHER PHYSICIANS WHEN YOU CONDUCT AN AUTOPSY? >> NOT ALWAYS, BUT I AM NEVER ABOVE REACHING OUT TO CLINICAL COLLEAGUES OR OTHER PATHOLOGISTS IF THEY HAVE AN AREA OF EXPERTISE THAT WOULD HELP ME. >> PART OF YOUR JOB AS A PATHOLOGIST IS TO ATTEMPT TO DETERMINE WHETHER THERE IS ASPHYXIA IN A PARTICULAR CASE, RIGHT? >> AGAIN, COMPLETELY DEPENDS ON THE NATURE OF THE CASE. IF IT APPEARS TO BE ASPHYXIA, WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT THE ROUTE OF HOW DID THIS OCCUR. >> AS A PHYSICIAN, YOUR PHYSICIAN AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT HAPPENS TO THE HUMAN BODY WHEN SOMEONE ASPHYXIATES. RIGHT? >> IN GENERAL, YES. AGAIN, I DON'T ACTUALLY SEE LIVE LIVING PEOPLE ASPHYXIATE. >> BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR RESEARCH OR EDUCATION, WHEN YOU GO TO A CONFERENCE AND YOU SAY HERE'S ASPHYXIA DEATH. LET'S TALK ABOUT IT. HE'S A PICTURE OF SOMEONE HANGING FROM ALL THE WAY FULLY SUSPENDED VERSUS SOMEONE WHO IS ON THEIR KNEES AND SUSPENDED FORWARD WITH A BELT OR SOMETHING. >> SUSTAINED. >> ARE YOU SENATOR WITH THE SYMPTOMS OF HYPOXIA? >> THEY WOULD BE VERY GENERAL SYMPTOMS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DIAGNOSIS FOR THOSE SYMPTOMS WOULD BE. >> WHAT WOULD THE GENERAL SYMPTOMS BE? >> OF HYPOXIA? PROBABLY SOME FORM OF MENTAL STATUS CHANGE IN CONFUSION OR DISORIENTATION. >> INCOHERENT SPEECH? >> AGAIN, THE DIAGNOSIS FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS SO LONG. COULD ASPHYXIA EXPLAIN THAT, YES, BUT THERE ARE MANY OTHER THINGS AS WELL. >> WHEN SOMEONE IS HIGH POXIC, DOES THAT CAUSE THAT PERSON TO BREATHE FASTER? >> I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW. IT PROBABLY DEPENDS ON THE NATURE OF THE ASPHYXIA. I WOULD DEFER ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS TO A PULMONOLOGIST. THEY ARE THE EXPERTS IN BREATHING. >> WOULD IT BE YOUR UNDERSTANDING YOU REVIEWED THE TOXICOLOGY OF MR. FLOYD. >> YES. >> BREATHING. SFWR THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YES. >> IT SLOWS BREATHING RESULTING IN LOWER OXYGEN LEVELS. >> IT CAN, YES. >> AND SIMILARLY, INCREASING THE CARBON DIOXIDE. >> WHAT IT WOULD DO WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF MY EXPERTISE. I WOULD DEFER THAT TO A PULMONOLOGIST OR TOXICOLOGIST. >> METHAMPHETAMINE IS A STIMULANT, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> MEANING IT CAUSES THE HARD TO BEAT FASTER. >> CORRECT. >> IT CAUSES THE HEART TO WORK HARDER. >> YES. >> IT CAUSES CONSTRICTION OF THE ARTERIES. >> I DON'T RECALL IF THAT'S A SPECIFIC MECHANISM. BUT I WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE IF IT INCREASES YOUR HEART RATE AND THE WORK OF THE HEART. >> HUNDREDS OF TIMES A YEAR. >> HAVE YOU CERTIFIED DEATHS AS AN OVERDOSE WHERE THE LEVEL OF FENTANYL WAS SIMILAR TO THE LEVEL OF FENTANYL. >> YES. >> HAVE YOU DONE SO WHERE LEVELS WERE LOWER? >> YES. >> HIGHER? >> YES. >> WHAT'S THE LOWEST LEVEL? >> I HAVE SEEN LEVELS AS LOW AS 3 MILLIGRAMS AND POSSIBLY LOWER. >> IF THEY ARE TOLERANT TO IT AT ALL. THERE'S A LOT OF VARIABLES. >> SO THE COMBINATION OF DRUGS IN ANY PERSON'S SYSTEM IS MORE REL VANT. >> THAT'S WHY YOU INCLUDED BOTH THE HEART CONDITION OF MR. FLOYD AS WELL AS HIS TOXICOLOGY FINDINGS AS OTHER CONTRIBUTING ISSUES TO HIS DEATH, CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> I JUST WANT TO KIND OF REVIEW WITH YOU THE HISTORY OF YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CASE IF THAT'S OKAY. >> OKAY. >> YOU OBVIOUSLY MR. FLOYD WAS DECEASED ON MAY 25th OF 2020. CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> YOU PERFORMED THE AUTOPSY ON THE 26th. >> YES. >> AND AFTER THE AUTOPSY, YOU HAD A MEETING WITH SOME ATTORNEYS, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> ON MAY 26th. >> YES. >> AND DO YOU RECALL TELLING THEM THE AUTOPSY AND PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THAT MR. FLOYD DIED OF ASPHYXIATION. >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IS, BUT THAT'S WHAT I CONVEYED TO THEM. IT'S THE FINDINGS DIDN'T SUPPORT THAT CONCLUSION. >> YOU TOLD THEM THAT YOU HAD AVOIDED WATCHING THE VIDEOS AT THAT POINT. >> UNTIL AFTER I P.ED THE AUTOPSY, YES. >> DO YOU RECALL TELL ING THEM CERTAIN FACTORS WHEN YOU THOUGHT CONTRIBUTE D TO THE DEATH? >> THE JURY SHOULD CONSIDER ANY STATEMENT AS POSSIBLE IMPEACHMENT OF THE WITNESS'S TESTIMONY AND NOT IS WHAT BEING ASSERTED. YOU MAY ASK THAT QUESTION. >> THANK YOU. >> DO YOU RECALL TELLING THE HEN PIN COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AFTER YOU CONDUCTED YOUR OFFICE WHAT YOU THOUGHT WAS A CONTRIBUTE ING FACTORS WERE TO S DEATH? >> I DON'T RECALL THE SPECIFICS OF THE CONVERSATION. AS FAR AS I KNOW THE ONLY NARRATIVE RECORD OF THAT CONVERSATION WOULD BE WHAT THEY WROTE DOWN. I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF I DID NOT TELL THEM ABOUT MR. FLOYD'S HEART CONDITION, BUT I DID THAT THE MOMENT THE AUTOPSY WAS DONE. I COULDN'T HAVE KNOWN THE TOXICOLOGY RESULTS THE AFTERNOON OF THE AUTOPSY BECAUSE I WOULDN'T HAVE THOSE BACK FOR SEVERAL MORE DAYS. >> SO YOU FOUND INITIALLY HIS HEART CONDITION WAS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. >> YES, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT WALKING OUT OF THE AUTOPSY SUITE. >> YOU RECEIVED THE TOXICOLOGY ON JUNE 1st OF 2020? >> CAN I REFER TO MY RECORD AND SEE IF THAT'S CORRECT? >> YES. >> THAT IS CORRECT. I'M GOING OFF THE TOXICOLOGY REPORT ITSELF. IT APPEARS IT WAS ISSUED ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 1st AT 7:04. >> DO YOU RECALL HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE PROSECUTORS ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE TOXICOLOGY FINDINGS? >> I RECALL HAVING THE CONVERSATION. I'M CERTAIN I WOULD HAVE RELAYED THE RESULTS TO THEM. >> DO YOU RECALL DESCRIBING THE LEVEL OF FENTANYL AS A FATAL LEVEL? >> I RECALL DESCRIBING IT IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD BE FATAL, YES. IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES. >> WOULD YOU AGREE ONE OF THE CAUSES OF THE PULMONARY A DECENT MA WAS FENTANYL? >> IT CAN BE A CAUSE. AS I INDICATED EARLIER IN PREVIOUS QUESTIONING, IT'S CONFOUNDED BY THE FACT THAT FLOYD HAD QUITE A BIT OF CPR SO IT'S MUCH LESS SPECIFIC GIVEN THAT HE SURVIVED AND MADE IT TO THE HOSPITAL. >> DO YOU RECALL THAT HAD YOU FOUND MR. FLOYD UNDER DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES, YOU WOULD DETERMINE THIS TO BE A FENTANYL OVERDOSE. >> I DON'T RECALL WHAT I TOLD THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, HAD MR. FLOYD BEEN HOME ALONE WITH NO EVIDENCE OF TRAUMA AND THE ONLY AUTOPSY FINDING WAS THE FENTANYL LEVEL, YES, I WOULD CERTAIN IF I IT ASSEN FENTANYL TOXICITY. THE TERMINATION OF DRUG CONCENTRATIONS IS CONTEXT DEPENDENT. >> YOU THEN WERE ALSO INTERVIEWED BY THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION ON OR ABOUT JULY 8th OF 2020. >> I BELIEVE IT WAS THE FEDERAL BUR OAT OF INVESTIGATION. A LOT OF THESE TOOK PLACE OVER VIDEO CALLS AND I WASN'T SURE WHO WAS WHO AT ALL TIMES, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS THOSE TWO, YES. >> AND THAT OCCURRED ON JULY 8th OF 2020, CORRECT? >> TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, YES. >> WERE YOU ASKED ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE QUESTIONS? >> I WAS. >> AND WERE YOU ABLE TO FORM AN OPINION ON BUT FOR THE INVOLVEMENT OF LAW OFFICERS THAT HE WOULD HAVE DIED UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES? >> OBJECTION. >> AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THERE ARE MULTIPLE PEOPLE ON THIZ THESE VIDEO CALLS. THERE WAS MORE THAN 1% ASKING QUESTIONS AT A TIME. I DON'T NORMALLY THINK OF THINGS IN THE BUT FOR PARADIGM, PERHAPS THAT'S A LEGAL THING, BUT IT'S NOT NORMAL LY HOW I THINK AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST. SO WHAT I CLARIFIED FOR THE U.S. ATTORNEY AND THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION WAS MY OPINION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED TO MR. FLOYD AND THAT IS HE EXPERIENCED A CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST IN LAW ENFORCEMENT'S DUAL RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION THAT WAS OF THAT INTERACTION THAT TIPPED HIM OVER THE EDGE GIVEN HIS UNDERLYING DISEASE. IT WAS ALSO CLIR 32ED IN A LETTER FROM THE COUNTY ATTORNEY WITHIN A FEW DIEFS THAT MEETING BECAUSE OF THE CONFUSION AROUND HOW THAT MEETING WAS RUN AND THE WAY THOSE QUESTIONS WERE ASKED. >> FAIR ENOUGH. THANK YOU. >> AGAIN, THE LABELING THIS DEATH AS A HOMICIDE, THAT IS A MEDICAL DETERMINATION THAT YOU MADE. CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> IT'S NOT THE SAME STANDARD AS A LEGAL STANDARD. >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LEGAL STANDARD IS BUT THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS. >> IN TERMS OF YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS, YOU HAVE ACTUALLY TESTIFIED TWICE IN CONNECTION WITH OTHER PROCEEDINGS, RIGHT? >> YES. >> REGARDING THE THE DEATH OF MR. FLOYD. >> YES. >> AND THE FIRST OF THOSE TESTIMONIES OCCURRED 20th OF AUGUST OF 2020? >> YES. >> YOU UNDERSTAND THOSE WERE TRANSCRIBED AND UNDER OATH. >> CORRECT. >> AND YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW TRANSCRIPTS. >> I HAVE. >> AND THE FIRST TIME YOU TESTIFIED IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEATH OF MR. FLOYD, AT ANY POINT DO YOU RECALL SAYING I HAVE TO DEFER TO SOME OTHER SPECIALTY. >> I BELIEVE I SAID THAT MULTIPLE TIMES. >> THE FIRST TIME WHEN YOU TESTIFIED OR THE SECOND TIME? >> I RECALL IT WAS MUCH MORE FREQUENT THE SECOND TIME. I DON'T RECALL HOW OFTEN IT HAPPENED THE FIRST TIME, IF AT ALL. >> IN TERMS OF THE PLACEMENT OF THE KNEE, WOULD THAT EXPLAIN ANATOMICALLY WHY MR. FLOYD AIRWAY? >> IN MY OPINION, IT WOULD NOT. >> DO YOU TESTIFY ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE CORONARY A ARTERIES AND THE HEART DISEASE? >> I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY EXTENSIVELY. IF WE NEED TO PULL OUT THE TRANSCRIPT, WE CAN. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE WORD MEANS IN THIS CONTEXT. >> YOU TALKED ABOUT THE ISSUES SURROUNDING MR. FLOYD'S DEATH INVOLVING THE CORONARY ARTERIES. . >> AGAIN, I HAVE NO -- I CAN'T QUOTE YOU THE GRAND JURY TRANSCRIPT. UNLESS YOU'D LIKE TO PUL IT OUT, I'D BE HAPPY TO REFRESH MY MEMORY. >> MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS? >> TO REFRESH HIS RECOLLECTION? >> IN THIS PROCEEDING, DID YOU TESTIFY ABOUT OR RECALL TESTIFYING ABOUT HOW THE CORONARY ARTERIES WORK RELEVANT TO PROVIDING THE HEART. >> I'M ALMOST CERTAIN THAT I WOULD HAVE. I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT I DIDN'T. BUT I DON'T RECALL HOW EXTENSIVELY THAT TOOK PLACE WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE TRANSCRIPT AGAIN. >> LOOKING AT THE TRANSCRIPT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION A ABOUT YOUR TESTIMONY IN THAT CONNECTION? >> SO THIS IS PREVIOUS TESTIMONY THAT MEDICAL EXAMINER ANN DREW BAKER HAS GIVEN. ERIC NELSON THINKS HE CAN GAIN SOME GROUND HERE BY SHOWING WHAT ANDREW BAKER HAS TESTIFIED PREVIOUSLY TO. ONE THING TO REMEMBER IN THIS CASE, WHAT HE'S TRYING TO SHOW IS HOW UNDERLYING MEDICAL CONDITION COULD HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEATH OF THE MURDER CHARGE. THE ACTIONS OF DEREK CHAUVIN ONLY NEED TO BE PROVEN TO BE SUBSTANTIAL CAUSE. >> IT DOES. >> WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH THE CORONARY ARTERIES IN THIS CONTEXT? >> I BELIEVE IT'S THE SAME ANSWER I GAVE THE JURY EARLIER, WHICH IS BECAUSE OF THE DEGREE OF NARROWING OF OF MR. FLOYD'S CORONARY ARTERIES, THEY HAVE A LIMITED ABILITY TO SUPPLY EXTRA BLOOD AND OXYGEN TO THE HEART MUSCLE WHEN HE NEEDS IT. ON TOP OF THAT, HE'S GOT A LARGER HEART THAN A MAN HIS STATURE WOULD NORMALLY HAVE BECAUSE HE'S HYPERTENSIVE SO THAT HEART IS GOING TO NEED MORE OXYGEN WHICH THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DELIVER. >> HOW DO YOU THINK THE INTRODUCTION OF METHAMPHETAMINE TO THAT ETER IS SCENARIO IMPACT? >> AGAIN, I CAN ONLY GIVE A HIGH LEVEL ANSWER AS A PATHOLOGIST. I DON'T TREAT LIVING PEOPLE WITH METHAMPHETAMINE TOXICITY, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S HARD ON THE HEART. IT'S GOING TO INCREASE THE WORK OF THE HEART BECAUSE IT'S A STIMULANT. >> IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IN TERMS OF THE PERSON WITHIN A LARGED HEART. HOW DOES THE INTRODUCTION OF MONTANA METH AFFECT THAT? >> AS I JUST SAID, IT INCREASES THE HEART RATE AND THE WORK OF THE HEART. IT'S NOT SOMETHING I WOULD WANT TO SEE IN THE BLOOD OF SOMEONE WITH HEART DISEASE. >> DID YOU DESCRIBE IT AS A PROCESS? >> IT CERTAINLY SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING I WOULD HAVE SAID, YES. >> YOU TESTIFIED A SECOND TIME, CORRECT? >> TO THE FEDERAL GRAND JURY? >> YES, I DID. >> THAT WAS IN FEBRUARY OF 2021? >> YES. >> AND ULTIMATELY, YOU DEFERRED TO EXPERTS FAR MORE EXTENSIVELY IN THE SECOND TESTIMONY THAN THE FIRST, CORRECT? >> THE SHORT ANSWER TO THAT IS YES. THE LONG ANSWER IS I BELIEVE I DEFERRED TO A PULMONOLOGIST REPEATEDLY BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MANY QUESTIONS A ABOUT THINGS LIKE GRADATIONS OF CHEST WALL MOVEMENT AND WITH THIS, THAT OR THE OTHER THING AND A PERSON'S ABILITY TO BREATHE. AT SOME POINTS, I CLEARLY SAID, LOOK, THIS IS OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF MY EXPER TEES AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST. A PULMONOLOGIST WOULD BE BETTER EQUIPPED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I'M GOING TO SAY I SAID THE WORD PULMONOLOGIST AT LEAST A HALF DOZEN TIMES IN THAT TESTIMONY. >> DO YOU RECALL REFERRING TO EMERGENCY MEDICAL DOCTORS? >> AGAIN, IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE CONTEXT OF THE QUESTION. I DID REMPX FOR SOME OF THE QUESTIONS. >> YES, IF THE QUESTION WAS SPECIFIC TO AN AREA OF A CARDIOLOGIST, PER TEES, I'M SURE I WOULD HAVE REFERRED TO THEM AS WELL. >> THANK YOU. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. >> RECORRECT DOUGH DIRECT NOW. >> I'M GOING TO BE BRIEF. SO WE HAVE LOOK ED AT THE SECTIN ON CAUSE OF DEATH. SO DR. BAKER, TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE ENTIRE EXCHANGE YOU HAD WITH MR. NELSON. ON MR. FLOYD'S MEDICAL CONDITIONS AND WHATEVER TESTIMONY YOU GAVE, WHEREVER YOU GAVE IT, I WANT TO BRING OUR ATTENTION BACK TO 193. AND TAKING ALL OF THAT INTO ACCOUNT. WHAT TODAY REMAINS YOUR OPINION AS TO CAUSE OF DEATH FOR MR. FLOYD? >> IT REMAINS UNCHANGED. IT'S WHAT I PUT ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE. IT'S CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST AND NECK COMPRESSION. IT WOULD STAY MY TOP LINE NOW. >> SO IF YOU LOCK ALL THE THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS, THOSE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS ARE NOT CONDITIONS THAT YOU CONSIDER DIRECT CAUSES. IS THAT TRUE? >> THEY ARE NOT DIRECT CAUSES OF MR. FLOYD'S DEATH. THEY ARE CONTRIBUTING CAUSES. >> IN TERMS OF MANNER OF DEATH, YOU FOUND THEN AND YOU STANDBY TODAY THAT THE MANNER OF DEATH OF MR. FLOYD WAS, AS YOU CALL IT, HOMICIDE. >> YES, I AM STILL CLASSIFYING IT AS A HOMICIDE STILL TODAY. >> THANK YOU. NO 23UR9 QUESTIONS. >> SIDE BAR. THAT'S IT. ONE OF THE KEY WITNESSES IN THE TRIAL, ANDREW BAKER, THERE TESTIFY ING FOR THE PROSECUTION ON HIS FINDINGS AND AUTOPSY. HIS CONCLUSION ON THE CAUSE OF DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. AT THE END THE PROSECUTOR STANDING UP AND UNDERLYING WHAT IS THE TOP LINE, WHEREVER ELSE MAY BE GOING ON IN A AUTOPSY IS THAT GEORGE FLOYD DIED OF A HOMICIDE AND THAT ALL THE ISSUES THAT THE DEFENSE HAS BEEN RAISING ABOUT DRUGS AND UNDERLYING MEDICAL CONDITIONS ARE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS. THE MAIN CAUSE WAS THAT HIS HEART STOPPED. HE STOPPED BREATHING DURING THIS WHILE DEREK CHAUVIN'S KNEE WAS ON HIS NECK. IT WAS INTENSE TESTIMONY BECAUSE IT IS SO CRUCIAL. THIS IS REALLY THE NUMBER ONE BATTLE. AND ONE THING TO REMEMBER UNDER THE LAW, PROSECUTORS DON'T HAVE TO PROVE -- WE'RE GOING TO LISTEN TO WHAT THE JUDGE SAYS. >> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A 15-MINUTE BREAK. >> SO A 15-MINUTE BREAK RIGHT THERE. BUT PROSECUTORS DON'T HAVE TO PROVE THAT WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID WAS THE SOLE AND ONLY CAUSE OF THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. JUST THAT IT WAS A SUBSTANTIAL CAUSAL FACTOR. IT SEEMS THEY ARE WELL ON THEIR WAY TO DOING IT. ALTHOUGH THE JURY HAS THE FINAL WORD. LET'S GO TO OUR LEGAL TEAM HERE. FORMER PROSECUTOR MARK OST LETTER, TAMEKA IS WITH US. BEFORE THIS CROSS-EXAMINATION BEGAN THIS WAS GOING TO BE THE CRUCIAL MOMENT. HOW DO YOU THINK HE DID IN TRYING TO GAIN GROUND WITH THE MEDICAL EXAMINER? >> HE GOT OUT A LOT OF THINGS YOU'LL BE HEARING ABOUT IN THE CLOSING. SPECIFICALLY, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER SAID THAT BASED ON HIS REVIEW OF THE LITERATURE, HOLDING SOMEONE IN A PRONE POSITION IS NOT INHERENTLY DANGEROUS. SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFERENT YOU HEARD FROM THE OTHERS. THAT HE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED TO SEE BRUISING IF THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS STRANGULATION. THEN THEY KIND OF TURNED TO ASPHYXIATION. BUT THERE WERE NO INJURIES TO THE BACK, WHICH WE MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED TO SEE. HE CERTIFIED OVERDOSES WITH LESS FENTANYL IN THE PERSON'S SYSTEM. THAT THE KNEE ALONE WOULD NOT HAVE CAUSED ASPHYXIATION. AND THAT WHAT HE SAW WAS THAT THE KNEE WAS ON THE BACK OF THE NECK. AND THEN FINALLY, ONE THING THAT'S INTERESTING TO ME WAS THE MENTION THERE'S A FEDERAL GRAND JURY THAT'S TAKING TESTIMONY ON THIS. >> ALL RIGHT. THANKS, MARK, FOR THAT. LET'S GO TO THE SCENE THERE RIGHT OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE IN MINNEAPOLIS. THIS WAS REALLY ONE OF THE CRITICAL ISSUES IN THE CASE. AND THE JURY HEARD FROM THE PERSON WHO CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY HOW HE BELIEVES GEORGE FLOYD DIED. THAT'S THE OFFICIAL VERDICT. AND THAT'S WHAT BOTH SIDES WERE TRYING TO GAIN GROUND FROM BECAUSE IT'S A MIXED VERDICT IN SOMEWAY WAYS. >> IT WAS FASCINATING. THE VERY LAST MOMENTS, PERHAPS ARGUABLY IS SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES. THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, THE ONE MAN WHO CONDUCTED THAT AUTOPSY, THE OFFICIAL ONE, SAYS THAT HE WOULD STILL CLASSIFY THE DEATH ADDS HOMICIDE. THE STRIKING MOMENT THAT HE DIDN'T SEE THE VIDEO THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD SAW AT LEAST NOT BEFORE HE CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY. HE SAW THE VIDEO OF GEORGE FLOYD AFTER THE FACT. NOW THIS TESTIMONY HAD BEEN ANTICIPATED FOR DAYS. THE LAST TWO DAYS, THE PROSECUTORS HAD BROUGHT UP OTHER MEDICAL EXPERTS, BUT THIS ONE MAN, AS I MENTIONED, HE'S THE ONE MAN WHO CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY. ANDREW BAKER, THERE WAS FEAR IN BRINGING HIM ON BECAUSE WHAT ELEMENTS OF WHAT HE SAID WOULD CORK FOR BOTH SIDES. FOR THE PROSECUTION AND THE DEFENSE. AND WE ACTUALLY SAW THAT TODAY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE BROUGHT UP IS THIS GEORGE FLOYD'S HEART LOOKED SO NORMAL HE DID NOT EVEN TAKE FPHOTOS OF IT. AND HE ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE RESTRAINT WAS MORE THAN GEORGE FLOYD COULD TAKE. THEN HE SAID THIS. >> IN MY OPINION, THE PHYSIOLOGY OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH MR. FLOYD ON THE EVENING OF MAY 25th IS HE HAD SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ARTERIES SO YOU KNOW HE HAD VERY SEVERE UNDERLYING HEART DISEASE. I DON'T KNOW WE SPECIFICALLY GOT TO IT, BUT MR. FLOYD HAD HYPERTENSIVE HEART DISEASE, MEANING HIS HEART WEIGHED MORE THAN IT SHOULD. SO HE HAS A HEART THAT ALREADY NEEDS MORE OXYGEN THAN A NORMAL HEART BY VIRTUE OF THE SIZE. IT'S LIMITED IN ITS A ABILITY TO STEP UP TO PROVIDE MORE OXYGEN WHEN THERE'S DEMAND BECAUSE OF THE NARROWING OF HIS ARTERIES. NOW IN THE CONTEXT OF AN ALTERCATION WITH OTHER PEOPLE THAT INVOLVES THINGS LIKE PHYSICAL RESTRAINT, THAT INVOLVES THINGS LIKE BEING HELD TO THE GROUND AND INVOLVES THINGS LIKE THE PAIN YOU WOULD INCUR FROM HAVING YOUR CHEEK AGAINST THE ASPHALT, AN ABRASION ON THE SHOULDER, THOSE EVENTS ARE GOING TO CAUSE STRESS HORMONES TO POUR OUT INTO YOUR BODY. WHAT THAT ADRENALINE IS GOING TO DO IS TO ASK YOUR HEART TO BEAT FASTER. IT'S GOING TO ASK YOUR BODY FOR MORE OXYGEN SO YOU CAN GT THROUGH THAT ALL THE INDICATION. IN MY OPINION, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SUB DUAL RESTRAINT AND THE NECK IMPRESSION WAS MORE THAN MR. FLOYD COULD TAKE BY VIRTUE OF THOSE HEART CONDITIONS. >> SO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER SAID THAT THE DRUG USE AND THAT THE HEART CONDITION PLAYED A ROLE. HE ALSO SAID THE HEART WEIGHED MORE THAN IT SHOULD. IT NEEDED MORE OXYGEN AND SAID THAT STRESS COULD PLAY A ROLE IN IT BEATING FASTER. NOW THE HEART, THAT ORGAN PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW. AND THAT'S FOR THE VERY SIMPLE REASON THAT THE PROSECUTION IS TRYING TO MAKE THE CASE THATS A FICTION IS THE REASON WHY GEORGE FLOYD DIED. HE HAD LOW LEVELS OF OXYGEN IN HIS BODY AND THE DEFENSE IS TRYING TO MAKE THE CASE THAT HEART DISEASE AND DRUGS PLAYED A ROLE IN HIS DEATH. >> EXACTLY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. I'M GOING TO GO TO OUR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY ON THIS. JURORS HAVE HEARD A LOT OF THIS TESTIMONY. IT'S FORENSIC AND THEN THEY HAVE HEARD ALSO USE OF FORCE TESTIMONY. AND AS WE SAY IN THIS PARTICULAR AUTOPSY, IT'S A BIT OF A MIXED VERDICT. IT STRIKES ME HAVING COVERED SOME OF THESE TRIALS BEFORE, JURORS REALLY DEPEND ON THOSE FINAL JURY INSTRUCTIONS WHEN THE JUDGE SAYS HERE'S THE LAW. HERE'S THE LAW. I AM ASKING YOU TO APPLY IT. SO WHEN THEY TAKE ALL THIS COMPLICATED TESTIMONY, THIS MIXED VERDICT ON THE AUTOPSY, THEY WILL LOOK TO HEAR HOW MURDER IS ACTUALLY DEFINED UNDER MINNESOTA LAW. MANSLAUGHTER UNDER MINNESOTA LAW. SEE IF THEY CAN SORT IS IT OUT THAT WAY. >> THAT'S CORRECT. AND WHAT WE HEARD AND WHAT WE KNOW NOW FROM THE TESTIMONY FROM DR. BAKER, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, IS THAT THERE WERE A NUMBER OF THINGS HE REFERRED TO. HE DID NOT FEEL HE WAS CAPABLE OF PROVIDING THOSE ACTUAL ANSWERS DURING THE COURSE OF THAT ACTUAL TESTIMONY. AND THE DEFENSE COUNSEL SOUGHT TO IMPEACH HIS CREDIBILITY BY INTRODUCING WHAT HE WAS ATTEMPTING TO ARTICULATE AS A PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT. TO COMPLETE THAT, HE WAFFLE D A BIT IN THE MIDST OF THAT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT THE JURY HAVE NOW THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE HAD DURING THE PROCEEDING ARE THE PATHOLOGISTS. THE FORENSIC TOXICOLOGISTS. THE INDEPENDENT FORENSIC MEDICAL EXAMINER THAT CAN ALL SHED LIGHT TO THOSE OTHER ASPECTS. SO WHAT DR. BAKER DID WAS HE GAVE THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY SOME LIGHT TO ARGUE FOR WHETHER OR NOT IT APPLIES TO CREATING REASONABLE DOUBT IS THE QUESTION THAT REMAINS. THE OTHER PART OF THIS IS DURING THE COURSE OF HIS CROSS-EXAMINATION, YOU SAW AREAS WHERE HE STRUGGLED A BIT IN FINDING SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY GRASP ON TO. AND AS I INTIMATED EARLIER, IT'S MOST IMPORTANT. PEOPLE REMEMBER WHAT THEY HEAR FIRST. PEOPLE REMEMBER WHAT THEY HEAR LAST. THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO START STRONG AND END STRONG. AND HE FLAILED A BIT. IT WAS LIKE WATCHING SOMEONE TRY TO TREAD WATER DURING A HURRICANE. HE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH TO WORK WITH, BUT HE WAS ABLE TO DO A PROFICIENT ENOUGH JOB TO LATCH ON TO CERTAIN ASPECTS OF HIS CASE THAT HE WILL BE ABLE TO ARGUE DURING THE COURSE OF THE CLOSING. WHETHER HE'S EFFECTIVE AT THAT, WE'LL SEE. >> AND START STRONG AND END STRONG. AND THE PROSECUTOR IS SOMEONE WHO DOES THAT VERY WELL. HE SEEMED VERY FOCUSED AND CLEAN LINES OF QUESTIONING. HE'S CLEAR ABOUT THE POINTS HE WANTS TO GET. BUT LET'S HEAR A LITTLE BIT OF THAT CROSS-EXAMINATION ON THE SUBJECT. USING THE WITNESS AND HIS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS TO ARGUE TO THE JURY ABOUT THESE OTHER FACTORS THAT HE SAYS AND THAT IS THE HEART OF THE DEFENSE REALLY ARE THE CAUSE OF GEORGE FLOYD'S TAET. HERE'S ERIC NELSON, THE MAN WHO PERFORMED THE AUTOPSY ON GEORGE FLOYD. >> YOU'RE AWARE ALSO OF THE METHAMPHETAMINE THAT WAS FOUND IN MR. FLOYD OOS SYSTEM? >> YES. >> DOES METHAMPHETAMINE FURTHER CONSTRICT THE VESSELS AND ARTERIES? >> I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THE SPECIFIC TOXICOLOGY OF METHAMPHETAMINE. IT'S CERTAINLY HARD ON YOUR HEART IN THE SENSE THAT IT DOES THINGS LIKE DRIVE UP THE HEART RATE AND BLOOD PRESSURE. BUT IN EITHER WAY, AS A GENERAL RULE, FOR FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, METHAMPHETAMINE IS NOT GOOD FOR A DAMAGED HEART. >> DOES THE AMOUNT OF OR THE LEVEL OF THE TOX LOGICAL FINDINGS AFFECT WHETHER IT'S TOO GOOD FOR THE HEART OR BAD FOR THE HEART. >> I DON'T KNOW THERE'S A SCIENTIFIC ANSWER TO THAT BECAUSE I'M NOT AWARE THERE'S A SAFE LEVEL OF METHAMPHETAMINE. >> AND ETSPECIALLY IN THIS. >> NO SAFE LEVEL OF THE STREET DRUG VERSUS THE AMPHETAMINES THAT ARE SOMETIMES PRESCRIBED. >> I'M UNFAMILIAR OF ANY MEDICAL USE FOR METHAMPHETAMINE. I'M AWARE THAT AMPHETAMINE IS USED IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES. THAT'S NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE. MY HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW IS ALL OTHER THINGS BEING ACTUAL, METHAMPHETAMINE IS NOT GOOD IF YOU HAVE BAD CORONARY ARTERIES. >> AND EXERTION ALSO CAUSES THE HEART TO WORK HARDER? >> CORRECT. >> AND WOULD REQUIRE MORE OXYGEN? >> IT HAS TO PUMP THROUGH THE HEART AND SEND IT TO THE REST OF THE BODY. >> CORRECT. >> SO IN SHORT REALLY WHAT THE DEFENSE IS TRYING TO ARGUE IS HEART FAILURE AND DRUG USE CONTRIBUTING TO THAT, THAT NOT THE ACTIONS OF DEREK CHAUVIN. LET ME GO TO OUR LEGAL EXPERT HERE. THAT IS I GUESS GOING TO GO TO THE QUESTION OF WHAT DEGREE OF RESPONSIBILITY FROM NOT GUILTY ALL THE WAY UP TO SECOND-DEGREE MURDER THE JURY WOULD ASSIGN. BECAUSE AS I SAY, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, PROSECUTORS DON'T HAVE TO PROVE THAT DEREK CHAUVIN IS THE SOLE CAUSE OF GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, JUST A SUBSTANTIAL CAUSAL FACTOR. >> RIGHT. MINNESOTA LAW IS CLEAR CAN ABOUT THAT. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE ONLY CAUSE. IT JUST HAS TO BE A SUBSTANTIAL CAUSE. ONE OTHER THING WE SAW HERE WITH THE CROSS-EXAMINATION IS A CLASSIC TECHNIQUE FOR CROSS KMGS EXAMINATION. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THAT WITNESS TO GIVE YOU THE CONCLUSION FOR YOUR SIDE. HE'S A WITNESS FOR THE OTHER SIDE. BUT WHAT YOU DO IS BRING OUT FACT, FACT, FACT, FACT AND IN CLOSING PATCH THAT TOGETHER TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU WANT. AND THOSE TACTS HERE ARE FIRST HEART DISEASE AND THE SENATOR ROAR ING OF THE ARTERIES. SECOND, THE METHAMPHETAMINE AND THIRD THE EXERTION OF RESISTING ARREST. IN CLOSING. 'RE GOING TO SEE ERIC NELSON SEW THOSE TOGETHER AND SAY THAT'S WHAT CAUSED THE DEATH. >> AND NOT INCLUDED IN THAT LIST IS THE ACTIONS OF DEREK CHAUVIN OR AT LEAST THE CRIMINALLY CULPABLE ACTIONS IS HOW ERIC NOEL SON WILL TRY TO FRAME IT. THANK YOU. ONCE AGAIN COURT IS ON A SHORT BREAK. MID-AFTERNOON BREAK. THE CONCLUSION OF ONE WITNESS'S TESTIMONY. WE'RE AWAITING THE NEXT WITNESS. WE'LL BE BACK IN JUST A MINUTE FOR MORE OF THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN FOR THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD. now when it matters most the
straightforward facts ABC number one news number one in
the morning number one in the evening with America's most
watched newscast number one in late night versus the
competition the number one news magazine on Friday nights number
one in politics across this historic
election versus the competition the number one daytime talk show
in number one in streaming news news is America's number one news the most powerful stories of our time line true cinematic related to one
stunning follow the clues the hunt true twenty twenty twenty central on ABC admit minute these days what you
need to know seems to change just about every what is it that you really want
to now need to to help you not just get through your day but to make the most of your smarter feel better feel
happy well how about %HESITATION third
hour of Good Morning America in the afternoon GMA three what you need to know
lunchtime at one eastern twelve central and Pacific on ABC it's all about you I know what happened and I'm not
guilty why the fascination with
criminal trials figure out what's really out
there she revealed she had murdered
his family I know in my heart dated this it's the time of suspicion the Indians really tough you don't know what the truth is
going to be difficult to find unless you try to find >>> DAY TEN OF THE TRIAL OF FORMER POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN. FOR THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD. AND THIS HAS BEEN A DAY REALLY FOCUSED ON SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUES IN THIS TRIAL. WHAT MEDICALLY CAUSED THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD JURORS HAVE HEARD FROM TWO WITNESSES. BOTH FRENZIC PATHOLOGISTS. SHE CAME IN AND SAID UNEQUIVOCALLY IT WAS THE ACTIONS OF DEREK CHAUVIN AND FELLOW OFFICERS KNEEING ON THE NECK AND BECOME OF GEORGE FLOYD FOR THOSE 9 MINUTES AND 26 SECONDS. LINDSEY THOMAS THERE, SHE TOLD THE JURORS WITHOUT ANY RESERVATION THAT WHATEVER ELSE WAS GOING ON IN GEORGE FLOYD'S LIFE AND IN HIS BODY, IT WAS THE USE OF FORCE BY THE OFFICERS THERE THAT KILLED HIM. AND THEN THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, THE PERSON WHO CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY OF GEORGE FLOYD, ANDREW BAKER, HE CAME AND SAID THAT IT IS NO QUESTION HE DIED BECAUSE OF THE RESTRAINT THAT THE OFFICERS WERE PERFORMING. BUT IN ADDITION BECAUSE OF THE UNDERLYING HEALTH ISSUES THAT HE HAD. AND PERHAPS AS WELL THE DRUGS THAT WERE IN HIS SYSTEM. HE SAID THOSE WERE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS TO THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. SO THE JURORS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SORT THIS OUT. THAT JUCOURT IS IN A BRIEF BREA. THE PROSECUTION, I LIKE TO GO TO ONE OF OUR EXPERT LAWYERS HERE. IT'S EASY. I JUST SAID BEFORE THE BREAK IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE DOING A GOOD JOB HERE. SOMETIMES I'M HAVING TROUBLE FOLLOWING EXACTLY WHAT ERIC NELSON IS TRYING TO DO IN HIS CROSS-EX CROSS-EXAMINATION, BUT HOW MUCH DOES THAT MATTER FOR JURORS WERE JURORS SEEM TO BE TAKING THEIR JOB SERIOUSLY. I'M SURE WE HAVE ALL SEEN LAWYERS WE DIDN'T THINK WERE AS GOOD ON ONE SIDE STILL WIN THE CASE. JURORS WILL SORT THROUGH IT ALL. >> IT'S EXTRAORDINARY IMPORTANT. WHAT YOU WANT IS TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THE ATTENTION OF THE JURORS AT ALL TIMES. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, TO BE ABLE TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING CRITICAL THEY CAN HANG THEIR HAT ON WHEN THEY ARE MAKING THOSE SERIOUS TERMINATIONS IN THE DELIBERATION ROOM. AND WITH JARED BLACKWELL, YOU HAVE HIM A LITTLE MORE CLEAR, A LITTLE MORE SUCCINCT, WHEREAS FOR THE DEFENSE, HE STRUGGLES A BIT IN TERMS OF GETTING THE WITNESSES TO CONCEDE TO THE POINTS THAT HE'S TRYING TO MAKE. AND IT'S PART IN PARCEL THE HAND THAT HE'S BEEN DEALT IN TERMS OF THE CASE. >> WE HAVE ONE MORE WITNESS THAT'S A MEDICAL DOCTOR. WE WOULD NOT BE DONE BY 4:30. ALL THE PARTIES AGREE YOU HAVE HAD ENOUGH. WE'RE GOING TO SEND YOU HOME AND COME BACK ON MONDAY. SO WE WOULD BE HERE PAST 5:00. IT'S BEEN A LONG WEEK. LET'S HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND. DON'T TALK TO ANYBODY ABOUT THE CASE AND DON'T READ ANY MEDIA. WE'LL SEE YOU MONDAY. SHOOT FOR 9:15. ACTUALLY AT LEAST 9:30. BECAUSE WE HAVE LEGAL ISSUES TO TALK ABOUT BEFORE THAT. world news tonight with David
Muir we have made it through another week together America's
number one most watched newscast across all of
television admit minute these days what you
need to know seems to change just about every what is it that you really want
to now need to to help you not just get through your day but to make the most of your smarter feel better feel
happy well how about %HESITATION third
hour of Good Morning America in the afternoon GMA three what you need to know
lunchtime at one eastern twelve central and Pacific on ABC it's all about you robin Roberts George
Stephanopoulos and Michael Strahan wake up with America's
number one most watched morning show ABC's Good Morning America the world may feel out of your
control but your happiness doesn't have to be learn the
secrets to happiness ten percent happier podcast free
on apple podcasts on the second straight year with
the Edward R. Murrow award for overall excellence in television
ABC America's number one source true cinematic related to one
stunning follow the clues the hunt true twenty twenty twenty central on ABC the reality is our country can
collapse from within please see the white power
movement on the March please in the neo **** skinheads
its meant to incite for the KKK to Oklahoma City to
show the new meeting space we just
need to start talking about race the war this is a real wake up call
streaming now NBC news live now when it matters most the
straightforward facts ABC number one news number one in
the morning number one in the evening with America's most
watched newscast number one in late night versus the
competition the number one news magazine on Friday nights number
one in politics across this historic
election versus the competition the number one daytime talk show
in number one in streaming news news is America's number one news this is in the space of three days we
have five students that the serial killer is on the
loose you know even the Bible
things like that don't happen here in
the one fourteen piece of evidence this audio cassette
they changed everything the motion all and refusing
interviews from there there was a audible gasp he did something no one saw coming twenty twenty tonight at nine
eight central on ABC somewhere else in the country there's a man good good good good people the miles then give them a brand spanking
new pair winning died just wanted you to have this thing name address the brakes Bobby bones they're
trying to break you %HESITATION great breaking Bobby bones New series Monday may thirty
first National Geographic I know what happened and I'm not
guilty why the fascination with
criminal trials figure out what's really out
there she revealed she had murdered
his family I know in my heart dated this it's the time of suspicion the Indians really tough you don't know what the truth is
going to be difficult to find unless you try to find this is in Jersey and if you
love the Oscars or if you're just curious about all that hype
well then you're gonna love this inside the Oscars the
podcasts countdown to biggest night listen now on
apple podcasts Spotify or your Hollywood's favorite podcast that six Broadway trail and murder
cutthroat Inc the podcast clearly on a mission to find
their son a year's worth of conversations with the killer
cut through peak subscribe for free email on your favorite
podcast >>> FROM ABC NEWS LIVE, THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. DEREK CHAUVIN ON TRIAL. >>> HELLO, EVERYONE. DAY TEN OF THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN FOR THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD HAS COME TO AN END. AT THE HEART OF THIS CASE IS THE QUESTION OF WHAT EXACTLY MEDICALLY CAUSED THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. NOW, FOR MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD, THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS OBVIOUS FROM THAT HEART WRENCHING VIDEO THAT SO MANY MILLIONS HAVE SEEN. IT'S DEREK CHAUVIN'S KNEE ON GEORGE FLOYD'S NECK. BUT IN OUR SYSTEM, PROSECUTORS ARE PUT TO THE BURDEN OF PROVING THAT BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT DEREK CHAUVIN IS CRIMINALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. AND THAT IS WHY THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE HAS BEEN SO CRITICAL. BECAUSE IN THE AUTOPSY OF GEORGE FLOYD, THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF UNDERLYING HEART DISEASE AND DRUG USE AND THAT'S WHERE THE DEFENSE IS GOING. TODAY ON THE WITNESS STAND, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, THE MAN WHO CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY OF GEORGE FLOYD, TOOK THE WITNESS STAND AND HE DESCRIBED HOW HE BELIEVES IN HIS EXPERT OPINION GEORGE FLOYD DIED, A COMBINATION OF THAT RESTRAINT, THE KNEE ON THE NECK AND THOSE UNDERLYING CONDITIONS. HERE'S HOW THE MEDICAL EXAMINER PUT IT. >> IN MY OPINION, THE PHYSIOLOGY OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH MR. FLOYD ON THE EVENING OF MAY 25th IS YOU HAVE ALREADY SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE CORONARY ARTERIES SO YOU KNOW HE HAD SEVERE UNDERLYING HEART DISEASE. I ADOPT KNOW WE SPECIFICALLY GOT TO IT, BUT HE ALSO HAD HYPERTENSIVE HEART DISEASE, MEANING HIS HEART WEIGHED MORE THAN IT SHOULD. SO HE HAS A HEART THAT ALREADY NEEDS MORE, GENT THAN A NORMAL HEART BY VIRTUE OF HIS SIZE. IT'S LIMITED IN ITS ABILITY TO STEP UP TO PROVIDE MORE OXYGEN WHEN THERE'S DEMAND BECAUSE OF THE SENNARROWING OF THE CORONAR ARTERIES. NOW IN THE CONTEXT OF AN ALTERCATION WITH OTHER PEOPLE THAT INVOLVES THINGS LIKE PHYSICAL RESTRAINT, THAT INVOLVES THINGS LIKE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HELD TO THE GROUND THINGS LIKE THE PAIN YOU'D INCUR FROM HAVING YOUR CHEEK UP AGAINST THE ASPHALT, THOSE EVENTS ARE GOING TO CAUSE STRESS HORMONES TO POUR OUT INTO YOUR BODY. WHAT THAT ADRENALINE IS GOING TO DO IS ASK YOUR HEART TO PEAT FASTER. IT'S GOING TO ASK YOUR BODY FOR MORE OXYGEN SO THAT YOU CAN GET THROUGH THAT ALTERCATION AND IN MY OPINION, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SUB DUAL RESTRAINT AND THE NECK IMPRESSIONS JUST MORE THAN MR. FLOYD COULD TAKE BY VIRTUE OF THE HEART CONDITIONS. >> JUST MORE THAN HE COULD TAKE. THAT'S THE MEDICAL EXAMINER ON THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. LET'S GO TO MINNEAPOLIS RIGHT OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE. THIS WAS AN IMPORTANT WITNESS. AND ONE THAT REALLY DELIVERED FOR THE PROSECUTION, BUT ALSO THE DEFENSE TRIED TO MAKE HAY WITH. >> YEAH, TERRY, AN IMPORTANT WITNESS. BUT WHAT YOU SAID A FEW MINUTES AGO WAS VERY INTERESTING. WHAT HAPPENED IN THE VIDEO SEEMED OBVIOUS TO US. WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER ANDREW BAKER, HE SAID HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE THE VIDEO BEFORE HE DID THE AUTOPSY. UNLIKE THE REST OF US AND THE REST OF THE WORLD. HE SAW THE VIDEO AFTER HE DID THE AUTOPSY. NOW HE WAS INCREDIBLY ANTICIPATED WITNESS FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS, THE PROSECUTION HAS BEEN BRINGING UP MEDICAL EXPERTS, BUT THIS MAN, HE IS THE ONE WHO CONDUCTED THE AUTOPSY, THE OFFICIAL ONE, AND HE ACTUALLY PROVIDED ELEMENTS FOR BOTH THE DEFENSE AND BOTH THE PROSECUTION TO USE IN THEIR FAVOR. NOW ONE THING THAT HE SAID WAS THAT THE HEART APPEARED NORMAL. HE DIDN'T EVEN TAKE PHOTOS OF IT. BUT HE SAID THE HEART WEIGHED QUITE A BIT, IT WEIGHED MORE THAN WHAT WOULD BE NORMAL AND IT NEEDED MORE OXYGEN. TAKE A LISTEN. >> IS IT YOUR OPINION AS TO THE CAUSE OF THE DEATH FOR MR. FLOYD. >> SO MY OPINION REMAINS UNCHANGED. IT IS WHAT I PUT ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE LAST JUNE. THAT IS CARDIO PULMONARY ARREST AFTER RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION. THAT IS MY TOP LINE THEN, IT WILL STAY MY TOP LINE NOW. >> SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS, THOSE OTHER CONTRIBUTING CONDITIONS ARE NOT CONDITIONS THAT YOU CONSIDER DIRECT CAUSES, IS THAT TRUE? >> THEY ARE NOT DIRECT CAUSES OF MR. FLOYD'S DEATH, THAT IS TRUE. THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING CAUSES. >> AND IN TERMS OF MANNER OF DEATH, YOU FOUND THEN AND DO YOU STAND BY TODAY THAT THE MANNER OF DEATH FOR MR. FLOYD WAS AS YOU CALL IT HOMICIDE. >> YES, WOULD YOU STILL CLASSIFY IT AS A HOMICIDE TODAY. >> A VERY IMPORTANT TIDBIT. HE SAID HE STILL CLASSIFIES THE DEATH AS HOMICIDE. NOW AS FOR NEXT WEEK, THE PROSECUTION IS GOING TO BRING UP ONE MORE MEDICAL WITNESS AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO BRING UP A SPARK OF LIFE WITNESS. THAT IS SOMEONE WHO COULD HUMANIZE GEORGE FROYD, TALK ABOUT WHO HE WAS AS A PERSON AND THEN WE HAVE THE DEFENSE AND THEIR WITNESSES. ALTHOUGH WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHO THEY'RE GOING TO BRING UP. TERRY. >> JOANN SHAW IN MINNEAPOLIS, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING THERE FOR US. AND WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH OUR LEGAL PANEL OF EXPERTS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS TRIAL AND WHAT IS JET TO COME. STAY WITH US. >> I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AND I'M NOT GUILTY. >> WHY THE FASCINATION WITH CRIMINAL TRIALS? >> TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS REALLY OUT THERE. >> SHE REVEALED SHE HAD MURDERED HIS FAMILY. >> I KNOW IN MY HEART THEY DID THIS. >> IT IS THE SUSPICION. >> THE ENDING IS REALLY TOUGH. >> YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER TRUTH IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO FIND, UNLESS YOU TRY TO FIND IT. >> REALITY IS OUR COUNTRY COULD COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN. >> YOU SEE THE WHITE POWER MOVEMENT ON THE MARCH. KLANSMAN AND NEO-NAZI AND SKINHEADS. IT IS MEANT TO INCITE WAR. >> THE NEW DOCUMENTARY EVENT SPECIAL. >> WE NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE. >> HOME GROWN HATE, THE WAR AMONG US. >> IT IS A REAL WAKE-UP CALL. >> STREAMING NOW ON ABC NEWS LIVE. >> ADMIT IT, THESE DAYS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW, SEEMS TO CHANGE JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY. >> WHAT IS IT THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW. >> NEED TO KNOW. >> TO HELP YOU NOT JUST GET THROUGH YOUR DAY, BUT TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT. >> FEEL SMARTER. >> FEEL BETTER. >> FEEL HAPPIER. >> HOW ABOUT A THIRD HOUR OF "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" IN THE AFTERNOON. >> GMA3, WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. LUNCHTIME AT 1:00 EASTERN AND 12:00 CENTRAL AND PACIFIC ON ABC. IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU. >>> 24 HOURS, ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL, THE ORIGINAL EXCLUSIVELY ON HULU. NOW STREAMING. WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE, MORE AMERICANS TURN HERE THAN ANY OTHER NEWSCAST. ABC NEWS, WORLD NEWS TONIGHT WITH DAVID MUIR. >> WE HAVE MADE IT THROUGH ANOTHER WEEK TOGETHER. >> AMERICA'S NUMBER ONE MOST WATCHED NEWSCAST ACROSS ALL OF TELEVISION. >> THE WORLD MAY FEEL OUT OF YOUR CONTROL BUT YOUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. LEARN THE SECRETS TO HAPPINESS, LISTEN TO THE 10% HAPPIER PODCAST FREE ON APPLE PODCASTS. >> ROBIN REPORTS, GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, MICHAEL STRAHAN, WAY UP WITH THE MOST WATCHED MORNING SHOW. ABC'S "GOOD MORNING AMERICA." >> WINNER OF THE EDWARD R. MURROW AWARD FOR EXCELLENCE IN TELEVISION. ABC NEWS, AMERICA'S NEW ONE NEWS SOURCE. >> SOMEWHERE OUT IN THE COUNTRY THERE IS A MAN WALKING SAY MILE IN PEOPLE'S BOOTS AND WHEN HE'S DONE. >> JUST WANT YOU TO HAVE THIS. >> BREAKING BOBBY BONES, NEW SERIES MONDAY, MAY 31st ON NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC. >> 24 HOURS, ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL, THE ABC NEWS ORIGINAL EXCLUSIVELY ON HULU, NOW STREAMING. >>> IN THE TRIAL OF FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN FOR THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD, JURORS HEARD A LOT OF MEDICAL TESTIMONY TODAY AND I WOULD LIKE TO BRING IN ONE OF THE MEDICAL CONSULTANTS EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN DR. DARREN SUTTON WHO IS USUALLY HELPING US OUT NNT COVID FRONT. SO THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US ON THIS IMPORTANT CASE. THE JURORS DID HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE UNDERLYING HEALTH ISSUES THAT GEORGE FLOYD WAS STRUGGLING WITH, IN PARTICULAR HE DID HAVE WHAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER DESCRIBED AS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, PRETTY SEVERE HEART DISEASE. THE PROSECUTION HAS SUGGESTED THROUGH ITS QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY OBVIOUSLY LIVE A LONG TIME, WALK AROUND, DO THINGS WITH SEVERE HEART DISEASE. HOW COMMON IS THAT AND I GUESS THAT RAISES THE BUT-FOR QUESTION, BUT FOR THE KNEE ON THE NECK WOULD GEORGE FLOYD HAS DIED FROM THAT HEART DISEASE. >> I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS MORE COMMON THAN PEOPLE WOULD ASSUME. IF WE WERE TO GET A GROUP OF PEOPLE, THE SIZE AND WEIGHT OF MR. FLOYD, WE'D PROBABLY FINDS OF CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE IN MANY OF THOME. WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOWLEDGE IS THAT IN THE PERCENTAGE OF THAT PLAQUE, WHICH IS LEVELS OF CHOLESTEROL BUILDUP THAT SUPPLIES THE HEART, WE AS PHYSICIANS LOOK AT IT. WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT DURING THIS INTERVIEW BETWEEN THE PROSECUTION AND THE MEDICAL EXAMINER WAS SOMETHING VERY SPECIFIC HE HAD ASKED WHICH IS DID THEY FIND ANY ACUTE CHANGES IN THAT PLAQUE WITHIN ONE'S CORONARY ARTERY AND THE MEDICAL EXAMINER RESPONDED KNOW AND THE REASON THAT IS MEDICALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WHEN WE AS PHYSICIANS SEE ACUTE CHANGES IN THE PLAQUES THAT SUPPLY VITAL BLOOD TO OUR HEART, THAT IS WHAT COULD QUALIFY AS SOMEONE HAVING A HEART ATTACK AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO GET TO. IT IS IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE ALTHOUGH WE DID SEE SIGNS OF CORONARY ARTERY, THERE IS NOTHING SUSPICIOUS THAT MR. FLOYD MIGHT HAVE SUFFERED FROM AN ACUTE HEART ATTACK. >> WE HEARD IS THAT GEORGE FLOYD, AS MILLIONS OF AMERICANS DO, HAVE STRUGGLED WITH HIS ADDICTIONS. AND HAD IF RECENT TIMES APPARENTLY BEEN USING FENTANYL AND METHAMPHETAMINE. THAT MUST CONCERN YOU AS A PHYSICIAN TO HEAR SOMEBODY SUFFERING AND STRUGGLING WITH THAT. AND IT WILL APPARENTLY PLAY SOME -- OBVIOUSLY IT PLAYS A ROLES IN THE DEFENSE ARGUMENT OF THE CASE THAT THAT CONTRIBUTED AS WELL. >> YEAH, SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THAT IS A TOPIC OF DESTRUCTION, ABSOLUTELY. I HAVE TO SAY SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER, SUCH AS FENTANYL AND METHAMPHETAMINE ARE QUITE COMMON TODAY AND WHEN I OBTAIN A URINE TOXICOLOGY ON A PATIENT, I HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING THAT MIGHT NOT ALLOW ME TO UNDERSTAND WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE HAS RECENTLY USED THE SUBSTANCE OR USED IT IN THE PAST. IF THAT IS WHAT IS OF IMPORTANCE I UNDERSTAND RIGHT NOW BECAUSE FROM THE VIDEO THAT MOST OF THE WORLD HAS SEEN, MR. FLOYD WAS NOT EXHIBITING ANY ACUTE SIGNS OF OVERDOSE OF FENTANYL WHICH COULD INCLUDE SEDATION OR SLEEPINESS OR LETHARGY AND HE WAS NOT IN MOMENT OF CONFUSION WHICH ARE SIGNS OF METHAMPHETAMINE INTOXICATION. IT IS NOT AN ACUTE EVENT THAT LED TO HIS DEATH. >> I THINK THAT IS A GREAT POINT. THANKS DR. SUTTON. LET ME GO TO MARK OSAR. THAT IS THE MAIN CONFLICT IN THE CASE BETWEEN THAT RAW VISCERAL MOMENT THAT WE ALL SAW AND THE WAY FRANKLY IT WAS ANALYZED BY DR. TOBIN WHO INDICATED HE WAS HAVING THE BREATH CRUSHED OUT OF HIM AND THE KIND OF MEDICAL TESTIMONY THAT THE DEFENSE IS RELYING ON TO SAY, HEY, THERE WERE OTHER THINGS GOING ON THAT YOU CONDITION SEE IN THAT VIDEO. THAT IS THE BATTLE LINE IN THE CASE. >> YEAH, AND WE'VE SEEN SUCH A DISTINCT BREAKING POINT IN THIS CASE BETWEEN THE EYEWITNESSES WHO SPOKE SO EMOTIONALLY AND OFTEN TEARFULLY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. AND HAVING EXPRESSING THE SAME THINGS THAT MOST OF US FELT WHEN WE SAW THAT VIDEO. AND NOW WE'RE IN THIS MEDICAL TESTIMONY AND ONE THING THAT HAPPENED IS THAT WE'RE MERGING INTO SOMETHING THAT WE SEE IN A WHILE WHICH IS WHEN MEDICAL LANGUAGE DOES NOT MATCH THE LANGUAGE. THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT BUT-FOR, BUT FOR CONVERSATION IS IMPORTANT BUT WE HEARD THE MEDICAL EXAMINER SAY THAT DIDN'T EXIST IN HIS REALM. AND BY THE SAME TOKEN, WHEN WE LOOK AT HIS ACTUAL REPORT, HE USUALLY -- WHEN WE THINK OF ASKING SOMEONE A QUESTION AND WE SAY WHAT HAPPENED HERE, WE THINK THE PRIMARY CAUSE IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST THING THAT THEY LIST. BUT THEN IN HIS REPORT HE SAID ARREST COMPLICATING NECK COMPRESSION SO HE LISTED THE ARREST FIRST AND THEN HE USED THIS CONFUSING WORD WHICH IS COMPLICATING WHICH MAKES IT SOUND LIKE THE HEART ATTACK COMPLICATED WHAT THE POLICE WERE TRYING TO DO. >> RIGHT. >> FOR THE DOCTOR IT MEANS SOMETHING ELSE. >> EXACTLY. AND THAT IS A VERY CONFUSING TERM FOR ME TO FIGURE OUT. HE EXPLAINS IT, THAT HE WAS USING IT IN A MEDICAL WAY BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS FOR THE JURORS TO SORT THAT OUT. LET ME GO TO TAMIKA McCOY. AND AS YOU LOOK AT WHAT MARK WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT, THIS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE SEE AND WHAT WE LOOK FOR IN OUR LAY -- IN OUR LAY MIND AS IT WERE, AND WHAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER TALKS ABOUT AND HOW HE TALKS ABOUT IT. THAT WILL BE A CHALLENGE FOR JURORS. I THINK YOU'VE MUTED. THERE, UNMUTED. THERE YOU GO. >> HIS USE OF THE WORD "COMPLICATING" IS WHAT CREATED SOME VACNESS IN TERMS OF WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO SAY CAUSE THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. AND THAT IS WHAT DR. THOMAS' TESTIMONY WAS SIGNIFICANT FOR BECAUSE SHE GAVE SOME EXPLANATION THAT WAS EASILY DIGESTIBLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT ESSENTIALLY AS A RESULT THE OFFICERS SUBDUING GEORGE FLOYD IN THE WAY THEY DID BOTH IN SUPPRESSING, PREVENTING HIM FROM BEING ABLE TO TAKE AIR INTO HIS LUNGS AND DEREK CHAUVIN ARE W HIS KNEE IN HIS NECK OBSTRUCTING THE AIRWAY, THAT IS WHAT LED TO THE LACK OF OXYGEN AND ASPHYXIATION IN GEORGE FLOYD AND THAT IS WHAT THE MEDICAL EXAMINER NEEDED TO EXPLAIN, WHICH HE DID. BUT HE DID IFN A WAY THAT WAS MORE OBSCURE THAN NECESSARY. >> AND THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE JURORS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SORT THERE. AS I SAY. LET ME GO BACK TO DR. SUTTON. ON THE POLICE USE OF FORCE, THERE IS A MOVEMENT IN THIS COUNTRY THAT HAS IN PART BEEN SPARKED BY THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD. BUT IN GENERAL, POLICE HAVE GOTTEN MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED ABOUT USING FORCE. AND WHAT ONE SEES ACCORDING TO THE PROSECUTION IN THIS CASE, IS THAT DEREK CHAUVIN IS DOING IT WRONG. AND THAT PERHAPS WITH SOME DEGREE OF INTENT IS ONE OF THOSE SUGGESTIONS OR DEPIRAVITY OF MIND. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT PICTURE AS A DOCTOR OF DEREK CHAUVIN'S KNEE ON GEORGE FLOYD'S NECK FOR 9:29, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION? JUST YOUR GUT REACTION WHEN YOU SAW IT? >> IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF EVERYTHING WHAT YOU SHOULD NOT DO WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO RESTRAIN A PATIENT OR A PERSON OR A HUMAN BEING. AND THAT IS IN MY GUT FEELING WHAT I FEEL. LYING SOMEONE IN THE PRONE POSITION WHILE OBSTRUCTING THEIR ABILITY TO BREATHE REGARDLESS OF THEIR MEDICAL HISTORY OR WHATEVER SUBSTANCES THEY MAY HAVE USED IN HER LIFE WOULD LEAD SOMEONE TO DEATH AND THAT IS JUST PLAINLY OBVIOUS. >> ALL RIGHT. WELL DR. DARREN SUTTON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY TAMIKA McCOY, AND MARK OSAR, THANKS VERY MUCH. >>> ANDU BEEN WATCHING ABC NEWS LIVE GAVEL TO GAVEL COVERAGE OF THE TRIAL. WE'LL HAVE A COMPLETE WRAP UP ON ABC NEWS LIVE PRIME WITH LINDSAY DAVIS TONIGHT AT 7:00 P.M. AND 9:00 P.M. EASTERN AND WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE ON MONDAY MORNING WHEN THE TRIAL RESUMES. UNTIL THEN, I'M TERRY MORAN. THANKS FOR JOINING US. HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND. >> THIS HAS BEEN A SPECIAL REPORT FROM ABC NEWS
