>> THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US HERE ON NBC NEWS NOW. I'M AARON GILCHRIST. JOIN US FOR AN NBC NEWS SPECIAL REPORT AS WE BRING YOU THE FIFTH PUBLIC HEARING OF THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE FROM WASHINGTON DC. THREE FORMER SENIOR DOJ OFFICIALS INCLUDING THE FORMER ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, JEFFREY ROSEN, ARE SCHEDULED TO TESTIFY TODAY AND ALL THREE MET WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT IN THE OVAL OFFICE ON JANUARY 3. NBC NIGHTLY NEWS ANCHOR, LESTER HOLT, PICKS UP THE COVERAGE RIGHT NOW. IT'S DAY FIVE OF THE UNPRECEDENTED CONGRESSIONAL HEARING. TODAY, TESTIMONY FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS WHO PRESIDENT TRUMP TRIED TO FORCE OUT OVER HIS FALSE ELECTION FRAUD PLAY. >> HE IS DETACHED FROM REALITY. >> AS THE COMMITTEE TRIES TO PROVE THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ASSAULT ON THE CAPITAL. >> PRESIDENT TRUMP SUMMONED THE MOB, ASSEMBLED THE MOB AND LET THE FLAME OF THE ATTACK. >> NEW EVIDENCE WILL BE REVEALED TODAY IS THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE MAKES THE CASE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND HERE NOW IS LESTER HOLT. >>> DID FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP PRESSURE THE TOP LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY TO HELP OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION? THAT IS THE FOCUS OF THE HEARING OF THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE AND UNDER THE MICROSCOPE THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND WEATHER DONALD TRUMP ALONG WITH A HIGH RANKING DLG MEMBER PLOTTED TO GET CERTIFIED VOTES. WE WILL HEAR TESTIMONY ABOUT THAT AND THE POTENTIAL SCHEME TO SHAKE UP STAFFING WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT IN ORDER TO ADVANCE TRUMP'S FRAUDULENT CLAIMS ABOUT WINNING THE ELECTION. JUST WHEN WE THOUGHT THE COMMITTEE WOULD BE WRAPPING UP THE HEARINGS IN A MATTER OF DAYS, A STUNNING DEVELOPMENT WITH SO MUCH NEW INFORMATION BEING UNCOVERED THAT THE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN SAYS HE'S PRESSING PAUSE, DELAYING THE NEXT TWO HEARINGS UNTIL SOMETIME NEXT MONTH. WHY? TO SIFT THROUGH WHAT ONE PANEL MEMBER CALLS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION CENTERED ON HOW THE FORMER PRESIDENT DIRECTED PROTESTERS TOWARD THE CAPITAL ON JANUARY 6 AND FAILED TO CONTROL THE VIOLENT MOB. WE WILL BE DISCUSSING THAT NEW EVIDENCE WHICH INCLUDES NEVER BEFORE SEEN FILM FOOTAGE OF INTERVIEWS WITH THE FIRST FAMILY AND VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE. WE WILL TELL YOU WHERE IT CAME FROM AND WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR BUILDING A CASE AGAINST THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND WE WILL GET TO ALL OF THAT BUT FIRST WE FOCUS ON WHAT LIES AHEAD. WE BEGIN WITH OUR NBC NEWS SENIOR CAPITAL HILLS CORRESPONDENT, THE TESTIMONY FOCUSED ON HOW ELECTION OFFICIALS WERE HARASSED AND EVEN THREATENED. TELL US MORE ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT AS THE FOCUS SHIFTS TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. >> TODAY THE HEARING WILL HAVE TWO MAIN THRUST IN THE FIRST EFFORT BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE COMMITTEE WILL CLAIM TO PRESSURE TOP DOJ LEADERS TO COME UP WITH AN INVESTIGATION OR AT LEAST LOOK LIKE THEY WERE CONDUCT IN AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE CLAIMS OF VOTER FRAUD. THE HEARING WILL BE QUARTERBACKED BY THE REPUBLICAN ADAM KISSINGER AND I HAVE A CHANCE TO DISCUSS WITH HIM HOW HE SEES THIS PORTION OF THE CASE SHAPING UP. >> IS IT FAIR TO SAY THE PRESIDENT WAS TRYING TO USE THE DOJ AS CREDIBILITY AGAINST THE ELECTION RESULTS? >> IT'S VERY FAIR TO SAY. IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THE PRESIDENT WANTED THE STAMP OF DOUBT THAT COMES WITH THE DOJ SEAL. >> PART 1 OF THE HEARING IS THE FOCUS ON GETTING THE DOJ TO OPEN UP AN INVESTIGATION OR INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE CLAIMS OF VOTER FRAUD IN PART 2 IS WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE WITNESSES TODAY THE THREE TOP FORMER DOJ OFFICIALS, WHEN THEY REFUSED TO DO SO AND THEY WILL OUTLINE AN EFFORT TO REPLACE THE HEAD OF THE DOJ WITH THE MORE COMPLIANT FIGURE, A MAN NAMED JEFF CLARK IS AN ENVIRONMENT A LAWYER AND WHO THE COMMITTEE BELIEVES THERE WAS A SCHEME TO HAVE HIM TAKE CONTROL OF THE DOJ AND INSTEAD THERE WAS A REVOLT AMONG TOP DOJ OFFICIALS AND STAFFERS WHO SAID THEY WOULD NOT SERVE UNDER CLARK AND SO THAT PORTION OF THE PLAN WAS NEVER PUT INTO ACTION BUT THAT IS WHAT THE COMMITTEE INTENDS TO LAY OUT TODAY. >> THANK YOU. JOINING ME HERE NOW HALLIE JACKSON, SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT AND CHUCK TODD THE POLITICAL DIRECTOR AND MODERATOR OF MEET THE PRESS. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE CHECK, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR TODAY? >> MEDDLING AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE PARALLELS AND THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST DIRECT PARALLEL OF WATER GREAT -- WATERGATE AND HE ESSENTIALLY WANTED THE PEOPLE INVESTIGATING BUT FIRED AND NEEDED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO BECOME COMPLIANT. THIS WAS A CASE OF IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS WHAT DONALD TRUMP WILL DO AND THERE IS NO LOSS HERE THAT SAY -- THEY WORK FOR THE PRESIDENT AND HE COULD HAVE DONE THAT. IT WAS THE ACCEPTED PRACTICE AND BILL CLINTON WANTED TO FIRE HIS SPECIAL PROSECUTOR A BUNCH OF TIMES BUT HE COULDN'T AND POLITICALLY HE WOULD NOT TOUCH JANET RENO AND IT DID NOT HAPPEN. TODAY, THIS IS HOW HE TRIED TO ESSENTIALLY USE THE GOVERNMENT AND OF THE CREDIBILITY OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO GIVE MORE CREDIBILITY. YOU WILL HEAR IN SOME OF THE SNIPPETS THAT HE SIMPLY WANTED THE ANNOUNCEMENT. GIVE ME THE PRESS RELEASE AND I WILL SPEND IT. WE WILL DO THE RUST IS WHAT IT WAS . THE MOST SHOCKING PART IS DONALD TRUMP DECIDED NOT TO DO IT. THAT IS THE PART OF THIS THAT I THINK IS ALWAYS BEEN AND FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH IT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT TOUGHER TO CHARGE HIM WITH SOMETHING OVER TIME. MR. CLARK IS AND A LOT MORE POTENTIALLY LEGAL TROUBLE THAN TRUMP BECAUSE HE DID NOT PULL THE TRIGGER BUT IT DOES SEEM AS IF HE WAS CLOSE AND THE MORE I LEARN ABOUT THAT THE MORE I AM PERSONALLY SURPRISED HE DID NOT GO THROUGH WITH IT. >> ALL THE HEARINGS HAVE BEEN A STORY OF THE PRESIDENT WALKING RIGHT UP TO THE LINE AND IT IS SO CLEAR AND SOME OF THE CASES WHETHER HE CROSSED IT. WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? >> THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT AND WE WILL HEAR FROM A COUPLE OF THEM IN THE ROOM WITH HIM IN SOME CASES IS TOP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE KEY TO THE INNER CIRCLE. AT ANY POINT DID DONALD TRUMP ACKNOWLEDGE TO THEM THAT WHAT HE WAS DOING, HE KNEW WAS VIOLATING THE LAW. I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE KEY PIECES. WHEN YOU LOOK BROADLY AT THIS, A LOT OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE WILL HERE HAVE BEEN REPORTED BY OUR OUTLET, THE NEW YORK TIMES AND WASHINGTON POST BUT WHAT WILL BE CRITICAL IS THE STORYLINE AS IT WEAVES TOGETHER AND THE CHARACTERS THAT WE ARE GOING TO MEET AND IN SOME WAY IT'S A TALE OF TWO JEFF'S. JEFFREY CLARK THE ENVIRONMENTAL LAWYER WHO WAS INTRODUCED TO THE PRESIDENT AND CONNECTED TO THE PRESIDENT THROUGH A REPUBLICAN MEMBER OF CONGRESS WHO WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT AND WHO BACKED THE PRESIDENTS AND WAS SYMPATHETIC TO THAT AND JEFFREY CLARK WROTE A LETTER DESCRIBING WAYS THAT HE THOUGHT THAT DONALD TRUMP COULD IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA, FOR EXAMPLE, PUSHBACK AND JEFFREY ROSEN AND THE OTHER WITNESSES, RICHARD DONAHUE AND STEPHEN ENGEL, THEY WERE PUSHING HARD AGAINST THE PRESIDENT THE OTHER WAY. ALL IN THE MEETINGS SANE IF YOU PUT JEFFREY CLARK IN CHARGE, WE ARE DONE. THESE PEOPLE ARE INTERESTING AND WE TALKED ABOUT JEFF ROSEN THE ONETIME ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE JOB FOR ABOUT ONE MONTH. >> THAT IS A MYSTERY WE ARE NOT SOLVING THE BILL BARR HAS NEVER GIVEN A SIMPLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHY HE QUIT EARLY. HE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE TO TELL THE PRESIDENT NO. >> HE DID TELL THE PRESIDENT NO . >> AND ALSO DECIDED TO WALK AWAY BECAUSE HE DID NOT WANT TO DO WHAT HE MIGHT BE ASKED TO DO NEXT AND IT IS STILL -- THE FACT THAT BAR LEFT JEFFREY ROSEN IN THE POSITION HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT NEEDS A LITTLE MORE EXPLORATION. >> YOU HAVE A GUY NAMED RICHARD DONAHUE WHO WE KNOW TOOK NOTES, HANDWRITTEN NOTES ABOUT SOME OF THESE MEETINGS , FASCINATING NOTES BECAUSE HE'S DESCRIBING THINGS THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS SAYING AND I WILL BE SHOCKED IF IT DOESN'T COME UP IN THE HEARING TODAY. HE'S DESCRIBING PIECES OF THE CONVERSATION WHERE THE FORMER PRESIDENT SAID, ALL I NEED IS FOR YOU AND I'M PARAPHRASING, TO MAKE THE ANNOUNCEMENT, REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN MIGHT JUST SAY THE ELECTION WAS CORRUPT AND LEAVE THE RUST TO ME IS WHAT RICHARD DONOGHUE SAID. >> ANYTHING OUT OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT . >> I'M ALSO INTERESTED IN STEPHEN ENGEL THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AT THE DOJ, NOT A HOUSEHOLD NAME AND NOT SOMEBODY AT THE CENTER OF A LOT OF DISCUSSION. THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO WAS ON THE SUPREME COURT LONG LIST FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE IN DECEMBER 2020 IN CASE THERE HAD BEEN AN OPENING AND SOMEONE WHO IS A WELL-RESPECTED ATTORNEY WHO WAS ALSO IN THESE MEETINGS AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN A LOT OF REPORTING ABOUT THIS AND WHAT HE SAW AND HEARD. THERE ARE A LOT OF STRINGS TO PULL ON. >> LET ME GO TO HER WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT WHO IS WISH WITH US TODAY. WHAT MIGHT BE MOST IMPACTFUL AND WHY? >> THEY MIGHT BE THE MOST IMPACTFUL BECAUSE YOU WILL HEAR FROM DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICIALS ABOUT THEIR DIRECT CONVERSATIONS WITH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT SAID ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE MAY HAVE HEARD OR SAW BUT THESE WILL BE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THE ROOM WITH THE PRESIDENT AND WE HEARD FROM PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN ON CALL WITH THE PRESIDENT BUT THESE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO KNOW FIRSTHAND JUST HOW FAR THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS WILLING TO GO AND A LOT OF THE ISSUES, THERE IS THIS KEYWORD, THE REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT PERRY AND A NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS AND THE LAWMAKERS SAY TRYING TO SEEK THE PARDON AFTER JANUARY 6 AND EVEN IN SOME CASES IN THE DAYS BEFORE JANUARY 6 BECAUSE THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE ACTIVITY THEY HAD TAKEN PART IN. IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING TO LEARN, DID FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP TALK ABOUT THAT AND WHAT ROLE COULD THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAVE HAD AND THAT AND JEFFREY CLARK WILL BE FASCINATING TO HEAR ABOUT BECAUSE WE HEARD ABOUT HIS INVOLVEMENT IN THE FIVE- PAGE LETTER THAT HE WROTE, A DRAFT LETTER ABOUT WHAT THE DOJ CAN DO AND HOW IT COULD POSSIBLY TELL STATES TO NOT CONTINUE COUNTING VOTES BUT ALSO JEFFREY CLARK WAS SOMEONE WHO HAD A MEETING IN THE OVAL OFFICE WHERE HIS BOSSES NOT WEARING A SUIT AND WAS OUT JOGGING AND HAD TO RUN TO THE WHITE HOUSE TO TRY TO CONVINCE THE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOT TO PUT JEFFREY CLARK IN CHARGE. THE POLITICS ARE GOING TO BE SOMETHING I WILL BE WATCHING BECAUSE WE KNOW NOW THE BIDEN DEMONSTRATION UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE TO REALLY BE MORE AGGRESSIVE WITH MERRICK GARLAN , THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND TRYING TO PUSH HIM TO PROSECUTE MORE PEOPLE IN CONNECTION WITH THE JANUARY 6 INVESTIGATION AND SOME DEMOCRATS TOLD ME THEY WANT THE DOJ TO BE DOING MORE BUT THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS THAT OVER AND OVER THAT THEY WILL NOT BE PRESSURED INTO DOING WHAT THEY THINK THE PREDECESSOR DID WITH TREATING THE DOJ AS A PERSONAL LEGAL ARM AND INSTEAD PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID I AM GOING TO ALLOW THE DOJ TO BE VERY INDEPENDENT AND THAT IS THE POLITICS OF THIS WILL BE INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THE POSITION OF THESE TWO ADMINISTRATIONS. >> I WANT TO BRING IN OUR NBC NEWS LEGAL ANALYST AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY. WE HAVE HEARD A LOT ABOUT BILL BARR AND HE'S GOT A LOT OF AIR TIME AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT HIM PROBABLY AGAIN TODAY AND HE HAS POSITIONED AS THE GUY THAT STOOD UP EARLY AND SAID, MR. PRESIDENT, THE VOTES ARE HERE. WHAT SHOULD WE KNOW AS WE CONTINUE TO WATCH? >> BILL BARR HAS GOTTEN THE KIND OF PASTS AND IT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE HE MAY HAVE THE MOST MEMORABLE LINE TO DATE IN THESE PROCEEDINGS AND I WANT REPEATED HERE BUT IT STARTS WITH A B AND IT WAS AROUND THE WORLD AND PEOPLE SAW IT AS BILL BARR STANDING UP TO TRUMP AND IT HAS HELD FOR ABOUT ONE WEEK AND I THINK THAT WILL CHANGE TODAY BECAUSE WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE MEMORANDUM THAT BILL BARR ISSUE THAT WE REPORTED ON THAT ESSENTIALLY SAID, IF THERE IS SOME REAL, OBVIOUS INDICATIONS OF ELECTION FRAUD THAN THE DOJ CAN INVESTIGATE IT. WHICH MANY PEOPLE IN THE DOJ PUSHED BACK AND PEOPLE DID NOT AGREE WITH THE MEMORANDUM. I THINK BILL BARR POSITIONED IT IN THE VERY LANGUAGE OF THE MEMO AS HE IS SLOW WALKING IS LOOK IF HE IS DOING THE BARE MINIMUM. I PROBABLY SHOULD LOOK INTO THIS BUT I WILL GIVE YOU MEMO THIS IS IF YOU SEE SOMETHING GLARING, LOOK INTO THAT BUT OTHERWISE, DON'T TO MATCH. IN THE GEORGIA SITUATION WITH THE SUITCASES OF VOTES, CONDUCT INTERVIEWS, TALK TO SOME PEOPLE AND THEN DO THAT AND BE DONE WITH IT. HE POSITIONED IT AS I DID THE BARE MINIMUM AND I WASN'T REALLY CARRYING OUT HIS ORDERS BUT TODAY WE WILL HEAR A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT STORY AND IT WILL BE THE ONES WHO STOOD UP THAT ARE GOING TO BE FOLKS LIKE ROSEN AND DONAHUE WHO STOOD UP THE ENTIRE TIME AND NEVER GAVE AN INCH AND WHEN IT CAME TO THINGS LIKE SENDING OUT LETTERS THEY SAID, WE ARE NOT DOING THAT , NO CHANCE . >> THE PRESIDENT DID NOT GO THROUGH. >> HIS ALLIES WILL SAY IT AND WE WILL HEAR FROM THOSE FOLKS . >> IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT PURELY LEGAL, WHERE DOES INTEND PLAY? >> WE HAVE INCOMPLETE CRIMES LIKE ATTEMPT OR CONSPIRACY WHERE THE ACTUAL CRIME MAY NOT BE CARRIED OUT BUT AS A MATTER OF PUBLIC POLICY WE PUNISH THE EFFORT TO COMPLETE A CRIME AS MUCH AS WE DO THE COMPLETED CRIME. YOU DON'T WANT TO REWARD PEOPLE FOR BEING LOUSY AT COMMITTING CRIMES AND MAYBE CHANGING THEIR MINDS. TODAY WHAT I'M GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR IS THE RECKLESS INTENT. NOT WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS COMPLETED BUT THE MERE FACT THAT TRUMP ASKED AND IS TOLD IT'S WRONG AND THEN APPARENTLY ASKED AGAIN AND AGAIN BASED ON REALLY NOTHING THAT WE HAVE SEEN OTHER THAN AND I'M QUOTING PRIOR WITNESSES, THEORIES AND NOT EVIDENCE. THERE COMES A POINT WHERE INTENT IS ASSUMED. IF SOMEONE CONTINUES ON IN THE FACE OF KNOWLEDGE OR INFORMATION THAT WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT THE COMMITTEE IS TRYING TO DO. >> WHAT DID HE DO ILLEGALLY IN THE SITUATION BECAUSE HE HAD THE AUTHORITY TO HIRE AND FIRE EVERYBODY IN THAT OVAL OFFICE. >> THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THIS IT DOESN'T FIT NEATLY INTO DEFINITIONS AND IT'S EASY FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME TO STAND HERE AND LOOK AT THE CRIMES CODE AND SAY IT COULD BE CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES OR IT COULD BE MAIL FRAUD BECAUSE SOMETHING WENT IN THE MAIL. BUT IT'S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THING WHEN YOU HAVE AN UNPRECEDENTED SET OF FACTS AND TOTALLY UNPRECEDENTED SITUATION AND I THINK IT'S QUITE DIFFERENT AND REMINDS US BUT IT IS FACTUALLY DIFFERENT AND I WOULD ARGUE THE EFFORTS ARE MORE DOCUMENTED AND MORE SEVERE THAN THEY WERE IN THE CASE OF THE SATURDAY NIGHT MASSACRE AND YOU DON'T HAVE DOJ OFFICIALS LEAVING, JUST THREATENING TO LEAVE AND YOU HAVE JEFFREY CLARK WHO IS GOING TO BE THE FIGURE TODAY SCHEMING BEHIND TO GET THE JOB AND GOING AT SOME POINT TO JEFFREY ROSEN AND SAYING, IT'S A NICE JOB YOU HAVE AT THE DOJ AND IF YOU WANT TO KEEP IT, SEND OUT THESE LETTERS AND MAYBE I DON'T WANT THE JOB SO MUCH . >> DO WE HAVE A BETTER IDEA OF WHY BILL BARR LEFT EARLY? >> EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW WHY AND WHY AT THAT MOMENT, SO CLOSE TO THE END AND ESSENTIALLY MOMENTS BEFORE. >> WE ALL WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH OUR FAMILY AND THAT'S A FINE ENOUGH REASON BUT WHY NOT FINISH IT OUT. WILL WE EVER GET AN ANSWER? >> HE HAD ALREADY DEALT WITH SOME OF IT. >> THERE ARE A LOT OF MYSTERIES AND THIS IS ONE THAT IT FEELS LIKE I DID NOT FEEL LIKE WE GOT A GREAT EXPLANATION . >> I WAS COVERING THE WHITE HOUSE AND TALK TO PEOPLE WHO WERE CLOSE TO BILL BARR WHERE THE SPECULATION WAS IS HE GOING TO LEAVE AND THEY WOULD TELL ME THINGS LIKE HE FEELS LIKE HE COULD DO HIS JOB RIGHT NOW, HIS RELATIONSHIP IS DETERIORATING BUT HE WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE AND TALKED EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE. >> LET'S GO TO NBC NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT. WE ARE GOING TO HEAR A LOT MORE ABOUT JEFFREY CLARK AND WE PROBABLY WON'T HEAR ABOUT THE VISIT HE RECEIVED FROM FEDERAL AGENTS. >> THAT'S RIGHT. YOU BEEN TALKING ABOUT HOW JEFFREY CLARK AND HIS ACTIVITY IS A CENTERPIECE OF THE HEARING BUT WHAT WE LEARNED A FEW HOURS AGO IS HIS HOME WAS VISITED YESTERDAY BY A NUMBER OF FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTS AND THE GOVERNMENT IS BEING CIRCUMSPECT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND OFFICIAL SAID THERE WAS SOME LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITY IN HIS HOME BUT HIS BOSS WHO IS A FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL SAID IN A STATEMENT THAT WOULD IT WAS A PREDAWN RAID BY A DOZEN FEDERAL AGENTS WHO TOOK HIM OUT OF HIS HOME IN HIS PAJAMAS AND SEIZED HIS ELECTRONIC DEVICES. THE CHARACTERIZATION, IF IT'S CORRECT, IT SUGGESTS THAT THEY OBTAINED A SEARCH WARRANT WHICH MEANS I CONVINCED THE JUDGE THERE WAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THERE WAS A CRIME OCCURRING. OFTEN A SEARCH WARRANT WOULD BE SERVED IF THEY BELIEVED A SUBJECT WAS DESTROYING EVIDENCE THAT OTHERWISE COULD HAVE BEEN OBTAINED BY SUBPOENA AND IT'S HUGE DEVELOPMENT IN THE INVESTIGATION THAT IS BEING RUN BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. INTO WHAT HAPPENED HERE IN TERMS OF EFFORTS TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION. SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO HEAR TODAY THAT ALMOST EVERYTHING JEFFREY CLARK WAS DOING AND TALKING ABOUT, HE WAS DISCUSSING WITH THE THEN PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, DONALD TRUMP AND HAD HE SUCCEEDED IN SOME OF THE SCHEMES, IT COULD'VE BEEN A MUCH DIFFERENT RESULT AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE WAS TRYING TO DO WAS GET THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO SEND LETTERS TO STATES SAYING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAD FOUND FRAUD IN THE ELECTION WHICH THERE WAS NO SUCH THING BUT HAD THE LETTERS GONE OUT IT COULD'VE EMBOLDEN PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO CHANGE THE GAME SO THIS IS A VERY CLOSE CALL AND WE WILL HEAR THAT THE OFFICIALS DID THE RIGHT THING WHEN IT MATTERED AND SAID NO AND THREATENED TO RESIGN. BUT THE THEORY OF THE CASE WAS OUTLINED BY LIZ CHANEY WHEN SHE GAVE HER DRAMATIC OPENING STATEMENT WHICH IS THERE WAS A CONSPIRACY HERE THAT SHE ARGUED WAS CRIMINAL AND USES THE WORD CORRUPT TO OVERTHROW THE ELECTION AND THE CONSPIRACY STILL EXISTED AND SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED >> ARE THE DOJ AND THE COMMITTEE PLAYING WELL HERE TODAY? >> THERE WERE SOME REPORTS IN RECENT DAYS THAT THE DOJ WAS ASKING FOR TRANSCRIPTS OF COMMITTEE WITNESS TESTIMONY THAT THE COMMITTEE DID NOT WANT TO HAND OVER BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY ARE PLAYING WELL TOGETHER AND THERE ARE A LOT OF FEDERAL PROSECUTORS WORKING FOR THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE. PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW THIS WORKS AND THEY WANT TO CONDUCT A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION BUT DON'T WANT TO APPEAR TO BE HIDING ANYTHING OR KEEPING ANYTHING FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND THERE ARE LOGISTICAL ISSUES TO BE WORKED OUT. >> ONE OF THE SUBPLOTS IS THE PRESSURE ON DOJ AND AS THIS UNFOLDS, THEY LOOK TO DOJ, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? >> IT HAS BEEN NOTABLE SINCE THE START OF THE HEARINGS THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS LET US KNOW ABOUT A BUNCH OF NEW THINGS THEY HAVE BEEN DOING AND IS THIS A WAY FOR GARLAND TO ANSWER THE CRITICISM HE HAS BEEN GETTING BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU SEE SUBPOENAS BEING ISSUED AND A PHONE BEING SEIZED. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE LIKE, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTIC , SUDDENLY GETTING MORE AGGRESSIVE AND THE REASON WHY THE COMMITTEE IS SO FRUSTRATED AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS IS THEY FEEL THEY HAVE BEEN PEDAL TO THE METAL. THEY FEEL THEY HAVE FOCUSED ON THE ACTIVE JANUARY 6 AND HAVE BEEN AGGRESSIVE BUT THEY HAVE SORT OF BEEN LOOKING AT THE LARGER ISSUE AND LOOKING AT THE STUFF THAT IS NOT URGENT AND IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS AND HAS COME ACROSS AS A SENSE OF URGENCY AND I DO THINK IF YOU'RE MERRICK GARLAND YOU WALK THROUGH AND IF YOU'RE EVENTUALLY GOING TO MAKE A DECISION, WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO DO WITH TRUMP, YOU BETTER HAVE EXPLORED EVERY FACET OF THE INVESTIGATION. IF HE'S GOING TO COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT HE WILL NOT INDICT TRUMP BUT WILL INDICT ALL THESE PEOPLE AROUND HIM, HE NEEDS TO BE DOING WHAT WE SEE NOW WHICH IS I LOOKED AT EVERY AVENUE. I CANNOT GET A PROSECUTION OF HIM. AND THAT IS MY SENSE OF WHAT I THINK IS THE LARGER PICTURE . >> OF THE LAST HEARING GOT EMOTIONAL AND IT WAS PERSONAL WITH THE POLL WORKER TALKING ABOUT BEING TARGETED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND BY CONTRAST IT FEELS LIKE IT MAY BE MORE GRANULAR AS THE COMMITTEE CONTINUES TO RAISE EXPECTATIONS OF QUALITY AND INFORMATION? >> IT SOMEWHAT OUT OF ORDER. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS AS A COURSE OF HEARINGS, I THINK IT WAS PLAYBOOK TODAY THAT TALKS ABOUT IT AND WE DIPPED IN AND OUT OF THE STORY LINE. I DO THINK IT WILL BE MORE GRANULAR AND FOR THOSE FOR EXAMPLE THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WHO HAVE BEEN IN AND OUT, IT WILL FEEL FAMILIAR AND I'M NOT SURE IT WILL FEEL LIKE THAT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WHO WILL BE WATCHING THIS WHO MAY FOR THE FIRST TIME BE HEARING ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES. I ALSO THINK TO THE POINT ABOUT WHAT WE MIGHT HEAR, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THERE WAS SOME PERSONAL ELEMENTS BECAUSE THESE ARE TOP DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICIALS WHO ARE FACING UNPRECEDENTED PRESSURE AND THE ONLY POTENTIAL ANALOGY WE CAN THINK OF DRAWING TELLS YOU HOW SIGNIFICANT THIS WAS AND THE COMMITTEE HAS HAD AND I THROUGH THIS ENTIRE PROCESS AND I SPOKE WITH MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOW THEY ARE LAYING THIS OUT, THEY HAVE HAD AN EYE ON HOW TO MAKE IT RELATABLE AND CONNECT TO PEOPLE WHO WERE WATCHING. FOR THEM IT'S ABOUT SITTING DOWN AN ACCURATE RECORD OF HISTORY AS THEY SEE IT WITH A LOT OF CONCERT CONVERSATIONS AND I DO THINK THERE MAY BE SOME EMOTIONAL PIECES, WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR JEFF ROSEN WITH DONALD TRUMP UNTIL HIM WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS SO WRONG THAT I MAY LEAVE AND WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR THE OTHER WITNESSES. >> WE ENDED THE LAST HEARING ON THE LITTLE BIT -- WHITE HOUSE LAWYER, WE WERE LEFT WITH A CLIFFHANGER. LIZ CHANEY SAYING, IF YOU HEAR ME, COME TESTIFY. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE MAY SEE A VISION OF HIM TODAY. IT WILL BE AN INTERESTING MOMENT. >> INTENTIONALLY. WE KNOW THAT WE FEEL CONFIDENT THAT WE WILL HEAR MORE ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE THE WITNESSES WERE IN THE CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM AND WE TALKED ABOUT HOW MORE THAN OTHERS HAD CLAIMED EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE AND DID WORK AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND CANNOT ACCOUNT FOR IT. IF AS YOU SAY JEFFREY CLARK IS KIND OF THE SECTOR OF THE CHARACTER HANGING OVER THIS, I THINK HE IS UP THERE AS WELL. >> SEAN PENN IS IN THE GALLERY. LET'S GO BACK TO OUR SENIOR CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT. TALK ABOUT THE LAST MINUTE DELAY FOR FUTURE HEARINGS. >> WE WERE EXPECTING A FULL SLATE OF HEARINGS THAT THE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN HAS SAID DUE TO AN INFLUX IN NEW INFORMATION AND NEW EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO DELAY UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF JULY THE FINAL TWO HEARINGS THAT WE KNOW THEY WERE PLANNING. AND THERE COULD BE ADDITIONAL HEARINGS BEYOND THAT SO SOME OF THIS IS NEW EVIDENCE AND SOME IS EVIDENCE THEY WANT TO GET. AND THERE'S A PIECE OF EVIDENCE THE COMMITTEE IS STILL SEEKING BUT WE KNOW IN RECENT DAYS THEY HAVE GONE THERE HANDS ON QUITE A LOT OF VIDEO FROM A DOCUMENTARIAN NAMED ALEX HOLDER A BRITISH DOCUMENTARIAN AND FILMMAKER EMBEDDED IN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE AND TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND YOU SEE SOME OF THE VIDEO THAT HE HAS RELEASED IN RECENT DAYS AND HE CAME IN FOR A DEPOSITION TODAY AND IT WAS ONLY TWO HOURS AND THAT TELLS ME THEY WANT THE VIDEO MORE THAN THEY WANT TO TALK TO HIM. WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE HAS ONLY THAT HE'S GOT INTERVIEWS WITH TRUMP AND TRUMP FAMILY MEMBERS FROM BEFORE AND AFTER THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6 AND THE COMMITTEE THINKS IT MIGHT SHED NEW LIGHT. AND HE HAS MISSED NO OPPORTUNITY TO PROMOTE HIS DOCUMENTARY AND WE ARE ALL WAITING QUITE EAGERLY TOEE WHAT IF ANY NEW LIKE THE VIDEO SHEDS BUT THE COMMITTEE BELIEVES THAT SIGNIFICANT. >> THE WITNESSES WE HAVE SEEN OUR REPUBLICAN WITNESSES WHO MAY IN FACT BE MORE DAMAGING AGAINST THE PRESIDENT AS THEY CONTINUE TO MAKE A CASE, THE HIGHLY RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND TODAY WE WILL SEE THE FORMER TOP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS TALK ABOUT THE PRESSURE THEY SAY THEY WERE UNDER TO GO ALONG WITH THE PRESIDENT'S SCHEME. >> I DO THINK THAT THE RICHARD DONOGHUE TESTIMONY WILL BE FASCINATING. I'M CURIOUS WHETHER WE WILL GET SOME FOLLOW-UP. WE WERE DISAPPOINTED IN THE LAST HEARING THAT IT FELT LIKE THEY LEAVE STUFF OUT THERE AND YOU'RE LIKE, DRAW THAT OUT A LITTLE MORE OR TELL US A LITTLE MORE. >> WITH THE SCRIPTED NATURE OF THE QUESTIONS? >> IT FEELS LIKE IT'S SCRIPTED ANSWERS AT TIMES. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO GET OUT OF IT AND YOU'RE LIKE, FINISH THAT THOUGHT AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THAT WENT . >> SOME OF IT FEELS INTENTIONAL. WE MAY HEAR ABOUT SOMEONE WHO WAS SYMPATHETIC TO THE PRESIDENT CLAIMING LIVES OF ELECTION FRAUD AND THAT GOT DROPPED EARLY AND SORT OF WENT NOWHERE THAT HE HAD ASKED FOR A QUOTE AND SOMETHING THAT THE OFFICE DENIES AND I'M WONDERING IF TODAY IS THE DAY WE WILL HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT. >> SOME OF THAT IS THE REASON AND THERE IS ANOTHER REASON FOR THE DELAY. NEXT WEEK COULD HAVE THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL OF THE SUPREME COURT DECISION IN TWO DECADES AND I DO THINK THEY WANT TO STEER CLEAR >> WITH THEY WANT THE NARRATIVE TO BE COHESIVE? >> AT THE COMBINATION, THEY ARE GETTING MORE INFORMATION AND YOU HEARD THEM SAY WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE HEARING LIVES UP TO THE SAME QUALITY THAT WE DELIVERED SO FAR. BUT NEXT WEEK ALSO COMES WITH THAT AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT. ALSO, I THINK -- THEY WERE HOPING THEY COULD SOMEHOW CONVINCE HIM TO DO THIS. IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE IT. >> THE WITNESSES ARE RESPECTING THIS SESSION. IT IS SET TO BEGIN IN JUST A MOMENT. WE WILL PAUSE BRIEFLY AND GET OUR STATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY A CHANCE TO JOIN OUR NETWORK SPECIAL REPORT COVERAGE. >>> THIS IS AN NBC NEWS SPECIAL REPORT. THE RESULTS OF A YEAR-LONG INVESTIGATION INTO THE JANUARY 6th ATTACK. DAY FIVE OF THE UNPRECEDENTED CONGRESSIONAL HEARING. TODAY, TESTIMONY FROM JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS THAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP TRIED TO FORCE OUT OVER HIS FALSE ELECTION FRAUD CLAIMS. THE COMMITTEE TRIES TO PROVE THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ASSAULT ON THE CAPITAL. >> PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP SUMMONED THE MOB, ASSEMBLED THE MOB. >> NEW EVIDENCE SET TO BE REVEALED TODAY AS THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE MAKES ITS CASE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. HERE NOW IS LESTER HOLT. >> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS SPECIAL REPORT. IT IS DAY FIVE OF THE JANUARY 6th SELECT COMMITTEE HEARINGS AND THE PANEL MEMBERS WILL BE FOCUSED ON THE FOLLOWING QUESTION. DID FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP PRESSURE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO HELP OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION? THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS UNDER THE MICROSCOPE, OVER WHETHER HE, ALONG WITH DOJ MEMBERS, PLOTTED TO GET SOME TO DECERTIFY VOTES. WE WILL HEAR TESTIMONY ABOUT THAT AND A POTENTIAL SCHEME TO SHAKE UP STAFFING IN ORDER TO ADVANCE HIS FRAUDULENT CLAIMS ABOUT WINNING THE ELECTION. JUST WHEN WE THOUGHT THE COMMITTEE WOULD BE WRAPPING UP THESE HEARINGS IN THE DAYS AHEAD, STUNNING DEVELOPMENT WITH SO MUCH NEW EVIDENCE BEING UNCOVERED. THE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN SAYS HE IS TAKING A PAUSE, DELAYING THE NEXT TWO HEARINGS UNTIL SOMETIME NEXT MONTH. WHY? IT IS WHEN THEY CALL IT A MOUNTAIN OF NEW INFORMATION CENTERED ON HOW THE FORMER PRESIDENT DIRECTED PROTESTERS TOWARD THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th AND FAILED TO CONTROL THE MOB ONCE IT TURNED VIOLET. WE WILL DISCUSS THAT NEW EVIDENCE, WHICH INCLUDES NEVER BEFORE SEEN FOOTAGE AND INTERVIEWS WITH THE FIRST FAMILY AND VICE PRESIDENT PENCE. WE WILL TELL YOU WHERE IT CAME FROM AND WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR BUILDING A CASE AGAINST THE FORMER PRESIDENT. WE WILL GET TO IT ALL BUT WE WILL FOCUS ON TODAY'S HEARING, JUST ABOUT GETTING UNDERWAY. IN FACT, I BELIEVE THE CHAIR MAN HAS GAVELS THEM INTO ORDER. >> THE CHAIR NOW SUBMITS MATERIAL PRESENTED DURING TODAY'S HEARING. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. AND OUR PREVIOUS HEARINGS, THE SELECT COMMITTEE SHOWED THAT THEN PRESIDENT TRUMP APPLIED PRESSURE AT EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT, FROM LOCAL ELECTION WORKERS, OF TO HIS OWN VICE PRESIDENT, HOPING PUBLIC SERVANTS WOULD GET HIM A CHANCE TO STEAL AN ELECTION HE ACTUALLY LOST. TODAY, WE WILL TELL THE STORY OF HOW THE PRESSURE CAMPAIGN ALSO TARGETED THE FEDERAL AGENCY, CHARGED WITH ENFORCEMENT OF OUR LAWS. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE -- WE HAVE ALREADY COVERED PART OF MR. TRUMP'S EFFORT. WE HEARD FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR, TELLING THE STORY TO THE COMMITTEE ABOUT THE BASELESS CLAIMS THAT MR. TRUMP WANTED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO INVESTIGATE. MR. BARR VIEWED THOSE CLAIMS AS NONSENSE. TODAY, WE WILL HEAR FROM JEFFREY ROSEN, THE PERSON THAT WAS APPOINTED TO RUN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AFTER ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR RESIGNED. WE WILL HEAR FROM OTHER SENIOR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS ALSO. TOGETHER, THESE PUBLIC SERVANTS RESISTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S EFFORTS TO MISUSE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AS PART OF HIS PLAN TO HOLD ONTO POWER, AND WE WILL SHOW THAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S DEMANDS THAT THE DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATE BASELESS CLAIMS OF ELECTION FRAUD CONTINUED INTO JANUARY 2021. DONALD TRUMP DID NOT JUST WANT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO INVESTIGATE. HE WANTED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO HELP LEGITIMIZE HIS LIES. TO BASELESSLY CALL THE ELECTION CORRUPT. TO APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE ALLEGED ELECTION FRAUD, TO SEND A LETTER TO SIX STATE LEGISLATURES, URGING THEM TO CONSIDER ALTERING THE ELECTION RESULTS. WHEN THESE AND OTHER EFFORTS FAILED, DONALD TRUMP SOUGHT TO REPLACE MR. JEFFREY ROSEN, THE ATTRACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL , WITH SOMEONE HE THOUGHT WOULD PUT THE FULL WEIGHT OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT BEHIND THE EFFORT TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION. LET'S THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS. WHEREVER YOU LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES, THERE IS PROBABLY A LOCAL GOVERNMENT EXECUTIVE, A MAYOR OR A COUNTY COMMISSIONER, AND ALSO AN OFFICIAL RESPONSIBLE FOR ENFORCING THE LAWS, LIKE A LOCAL PROSECUTOR. IMAGINE IF YOUR MAYOR LOST A REELECTION BUT INSTEAD OF CONCEDING THE RACE, THEY PICKED UP THE PHONE, CALLED THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, AND SAID, I WANT YOU TO SAY THIS ELECTION WAS STOLEN. I WANT YOU TO TELL THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS NOT TO CERTIFY THE RESULTS. THAT IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WAS TRYING TO DO WITH THE ELECTION FOR THE PRESIDENCY. IT WAS A BRAZEN ATTEMPT TO USE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO ADVANCE HIS PERSONAL POLITICAL AGENDA. TODAY, MY COLLEAGUE FROM ILLINOIS, MR. KINZINGER, AND OTHER WITNESSES, WILL WALK THROUGH THE SELECT COMMITTEE'S FINDINGS ON THESE MATTERS, BUT FIRST I RECOGNIZE OUR DISTINGUISHED VICE CHAIR, MS. CHENEY, FOR ANY OPENING STATEMENT SHE HAS CARED TO OFFER. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN. AT THIS POINT, THE COMMITTEE HAS JUST BEGUN TO SHOW AMERICA THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE GATHERED. THERE IS MUCH MORE TO COME, BOTH IN OUR HEARINGS AND OUR REPORT. I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO PUT EVERYTHING WE HAVE SEEN IN CONTEXT. WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN HOW PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP FALSELY DECLARED VICTORY ON NOVEMBER 3rd, 2020. HOW HE AND HIS TEAM LAUNCHED A FRAUDULENT MEDIA CAMPAIGN TO PERSUADE TENS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM HIM. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP INTENTIONALLY RAN FALSE ADVERTISEMENT ON TELEVISION AND SOCIAL MEDIA, WITH ALLEGATIONS THAT HIS ADVISERS AND JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REPEATEDLY TOLD HIM WERE UNTRUE. WE HAVE ALSO SEEN PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP LAUNCH A FRAUDULENT FUNDRAISING CAMPAIGN THAT RAISED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, AGAIN, BASED ON THOSE SAME FALSE ELECTION FRAUD ALLEGATIONS. WE HAVE SEEN HOW PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES CORRUPTLY ATTEMPTED TO USHER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE TO COUNT WAFFLE VOTES AND OBSTRUCT PROCEEDINGS. HE PROVOKED A VIOLENT MOB TO PURSUE THE VICE PRESIDENT AND OTHERS IN OUR CAPITOL. WE HAVE SEEN HOW THE PRESIDENT OVERSAW AND PERSONALLY PARTICIPATED IN AN EFFORT , IN MULTIPLE STATES, TO VILIFY, THREATEN, AND PRESSURE ELECTION OFFICIALS, AND TO USE FALSE ALLEGATIONS TO PRESSURE STATE LEGISLATURES TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. WE HAVE SEEN HOW PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WORKED WITH, AND DIRECTED, THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE AND OTHERS TO ORGANIZE AN EFFORT TO CREATE FAKE ELECTORAL PLATES AND LATER TO TRANSMIT THOSE MATERIALLY FALSE DOCUMENTS TO FEDERAL OFFICIALS. AGAIN, AS PART OF HIS PLANNING FOR JANUARY 6th. WE HAVE SEEN HOW PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP PERSUADED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF HIS SUPPORTERS TO TRAVEL TO WASHINGTON, D.C., FOR JANUARY 6th. WE WILL SEE IN FAR MORE DETAIL HOW HIS RALLY AND MARCH TO THE CAPITOL WAS ORGANIZED AND CHOREOGRAPHED. AS YOU CAN TELL, THESE EFFORTS WERE NOT SOME MINOR OR AD HOC ENTERPRISE OVERNIGHT. THESE REQUIRED PLANNING AND COORDINATION. SOME REQUIRED SIGNIFICANT FUNDING. ALL OF THEM WERE OVERSEEN BY PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP. MUCH MORE INFORMATION WILL BE PRESENTED SOON, REGARDING HIS STATEMENTS AND ACTIONS ON JANUARY 6th. TODAY, AS CHAIRMAN THOMPSON INDICATED, WE ARE RETURNING TO ANOTHER ELEMENT OF HIM RETURNING THE 2020 ELECTION. THIS ONE INVOLVES THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. A KEY FAKENESS OF ARE HEARING TODAY WILL BE A DRAFT LETTER THAT OUR WITNESSES REFUSED TO SIGN. THIS WAS WRITTEN BY MR. JEFF CLARK, WITH ANOTHER DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE LAWYER, AND THE LETTER WAS TO BE SENT TO THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GEORGIA STATE LEGISLATURE. OTHER VERSIONS OF THE LETTER WERE INTENDED FOR OTHER STATES. MR. CLARK AND OTHERS HAD NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD ELECTION FRAUD. THEY WERE QUITE AWARE OF WHAT MR. TRUMP WANTED THE DEPARTMENT TO DO. JEFF CLARK MET PRIVATELY WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP AND OTHERS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND AGREED TO ASSIST HIM WITHOUT TELLING SENIOR LEADERSHIP OF THE DEPARTMENT WHO OVERSAW HIM. AS YOU WILL SEE, THIS LETTER CLAIMS THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE'S INVESTIGATION HAVE, QUOTE, IDENTIFY SIGNIFICANT CONCERN THAT MAY HAVE IMPACTED THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION IN MULTIPLE STATES, INCLUDING THE STATE OF GEORGIA. IN FACT, PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP KNEW THIS WAS A LIE. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAD ALREADY INFORMED THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES REPEATED THE IN ITS INVESTIGATION AND THEY HAD FOUND NO FRAUD IS SUFFICIENT TO OVERTURN THE RESULTS OF THE 2020 ELECTION. THE LETTER ALSO SAID THIS. QUOTE, IN LIGHT OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS, THE DEPARTMENT RECOMMENDS THAT THE GEORGIA GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHOULD CONVENE IN SPECIAL SESSIONS. THEY SHOULD CONSIDER APPROVING A NEW SLATE OF ELECTORS. IT INDICATES, QUOTE, THEY SEPARATE A FAKE SLATE OF ELECTORS IS SUPPORTING PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP HAS ALREADY BEEN TRANSMITTED TO WASHINGTON, D.C. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN WATCHING THESE HEARINGS, THE LANGUAGE OF THIS DRAFT WILL SOUND VERY FAMILIAR. THE TEXT IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM JOHN EASTMAN AND RUDY GIULIANI. BOTH OF THEM WERE COORDINATING WITH PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION. ONE OF OUR WITNESSES, MR. DONAHUE, FIRST SAW THIS DRAFT LETTER AND HE WROTE THIS, QUOTE, THIS WOULD BE A GREAT STEP FOR THE DEPARTMENT TO TAKE. IT COULD HAVE TREMENDOUS CONSTITUTIONAL, POLITICAL, AND SOCIAL RAMIFICATIONS FOR THE COUNTRY. THIS COMMITTEE AGREES. HAD THIS LETTER BEEN RELEASED ON LETTERHEAD, IT WOULD HAVE FALSELY INFORMED ALL AMERICANS, INCLUDING THOSE WHO MIGHT BE INCLINED TO COME TO WASHINGTON ON JANUARY 6th, THAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S ELECTION FRAUD ALLEGATIONS WERE LIKELY VERY REAL. HERE IS ANOTHER OBSERVATION ABOUT THIS LETTER. LOOK AT THE SIGNATURE LINE. IT WAS WRITTEN BY JEFF CLARK AND THIS OTHER PERSON. SAME THING WITH MR. DONAHUE AND JEFF ROSEN. IT BECAME CLEAR THAT NEITHER RESTON -- WITH SIGN THIS LETTER. AS YOU WILL HEAR TODAY, DONALD TRUMP OFFERED TO MR. CLARK THE JOB OF ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, REPLACING MR. ROSEN WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT CLARK WOULD SEND THIS LETTER TO GEORGIA AND OTHER STATES AND TAKE OTHER ACTIONS THE PRESIDENT REQUESTED. ONE OTHER POINT. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS HAVE SEEN THE TESTIMONY OF ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE. AT ONE POINT IN HIS DEPOSITION, THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS ASKED, WHY HE AUTHORIZED THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO INVESTIGATE FRAUD IN THE 2020 ELECTION AT ALL? WHY NOT JUST FOLLOW THE REGULAR COURT OF ACTION ND LET THE INVESTIGATIONS OCCUR MUCH LATER IN TIME, AFTER JANUARY 6th? HERE IS WHAT HE SAID. >> I THOUGHT THE RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO WAS TO BE IN A POSITION TO LOOK AT WHETHER THERE WAS FRAUD AND, FRANKLY, I THINK THE FACT I PUT MYSELF IN THE POSITION THAT I COULD SAY THAT WE HAVE LOOKED AT THIS AND DID NOT THINK THERE WAS FRAUD WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO MOVING THINGS FORWARD. I CAN TELL YOU THAT I SHUDDER TO THINK WHAT THE SITUATION WOULD HAVE BEEN IF -- THEY WERE NOT EVEN LOOKING AT THIS UNTIL AFTER BIDEN IS IN OFFICE. I AM NOT SURE WE WOULD HAVE HAD A TRANSITION AT ALL. >> I WANT TO THANK EACH OF OUR WITNESSES WITH US TODAY, FOR YOUR ROLE IN ADDRESSING AND REBUTTING THE FALSE ALLEGATIONS OF FRAUD. THANK YOU FOR STANDING UP FOR THE CONSTITUTION AND FOR THE RULE OF LAW. NOT ALL OFFICIALS BEHAVED IN THE HONORABLE WAY. AT THE CLOSE OF TODAY'S HEARING, WE WILL SEE VIDEO TESTIMONY BY THREE MEMBERS OF PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S WHITE HOUSE STAFF. THEY WILL IDENTIFY CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO CONTACTED THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER JANUARY 6th TO SEEK PRESIDENTIAL PARDON FOR THEIR CONDUCT. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I YIELD BACK. >> WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE CHAIR RECOGNIZES A GENTLEMAN FROM ILLINOIS FOR AN OPENING STATEMENT. >> THANK YOU TO OUR WITNESSES AND CHAIRMAN. I WANT TO START WITH A PERSONAL STORY. IN MAY OF 2009, I RETURNED FROM SERVICE IN IRAQ AND I ANNOUNCED MY INTENTION TO RUN FOR CONGRESS. I DECIDED TO RUN FOR CONGRESS BECAUSE OF MY MOTIVATION TO ENSURE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, TO SEND IT OVERSEAS. YOU REMEMBER MAKING A COMMITMENT AND IN MY HEART, REPEATEDLY, THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO ASK AMERICANS TO BE WILLING TO DIE IN SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY, WE, AS LEADERS, MUST BE WILLING TO SACRIFICE OUR POLITICAL CAREERS WITH INTEGRITY IF OUR OATH REQUIRES IT. AFTER ALL, LOSING A JOB IS NOTHING COMPARED TO LOSING YOUR LIFE. WE -- IT CAN EASILY BE FORGOTTEN. PRESSURE CAN BE HARD TO RESIST. TODAY, WE WILL FOCUS ON A FEW OFFICIALS WHO STOOD FIRM AGAINST PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S POLITICAL PRESSURE CAMPAIGN. WHEN HE TRIED TO MISUSE THE DEPARTMENT AND INSTALL A LOYALIST AT HIS HELM, THESE SPRAYS OFFICIALS REFUSED AND THREATENED TO RESIGN. THEY WERE WILLING TO SACRIFICE THEIR CAREERS FOR THE GOOD OF OUR COUNTRY. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS UNIQUE IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. THE PRESIDENT OVERSEES THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, YET THEIR PERSONAL PARTISAN INTEREST MUST NOT SHAVE OR DICTATE THE DEPARTMENT'S ACTIONS. THE PRESIDENT CANNOT AND MUST NOT USE THE DEPARTMENT TO SERVE HIS OWN PERSONAL INTEREST. HE MUST NOT USE THEIR PEOPLE TO DO HIS POLITICAL BUILDING, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS TO SUBVERT DEMOCRACY. THE PRESIDENT CANNOT PERVERT JUSTICE, NOR THE LAW, TO MAINTAIN HIS POWER. JUSTICE MUST, IN FACT AND LAW, BE BLIND. THAT IS CRITICAL TO OUR WHOLE SYSTEM OF SELF-GOVERNANCE. DURING THIS HEARING, YOU WILL HEAR TIME AND TIME AGAIN ABOUT HIS REQUEST TO INVESTIGATE CLAIMS OF WIDESPREAD FRAUD. OUR WITNESSES, MR. ROSEN AND MR. DONAHUE STOOD FIRM BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEIR ONUS WAS TO THE CONSTITUTION AND NOT POLITICAL INTERESTS OF THE PRESIDENT. THE PRESIDENT AND HIS ALLIES BECAME KEENLY AWARE THAT THE LEGAL CHALLENGES WERE EXHAUSTED AND THEIR ONLY HOPE WOULD BE A LAST-DITCH SCHEME TO PREVENT CONGRESS FROM CERTIFYING A WIN, THUS THROWING THE ENTIRE SYSTEM INTO CONSTITUTIONAL CHAOS. THE PRESIDENT WANTED THE DEPARTMENT TO SOW DOUBT IN THE LEGITIMACY OF THE ELECTION, TO EMPOWER HIS FOLLOWERS AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO TAKE ACTION. THE DEPARTMENT COULD JUST LEND ITS CREDIBILITY TO THE CONSPIRACIES, PEOPLE WOULD HAVE THE JUSTIFICATION THEY NEEDED TO SPREAD THE BIG LIE. SO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ULTIMATELY, ONE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE -- YOU WANTED THEM TO SAY IT WAS, QUOTE, CORRUPT AND, QUOTE, LEAVE THE REST TO ME AND THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN. AS YOU WILL HEAR TODAY, THE TOP LEADERSHIP REFUSED. NOT SURPRISINGLY, HE DID NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER. HE DID NOT EXPECT IT FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR AND HE WOULD NOT ACCEPT IT FROM MR. ROSEN EITHER. SO, HE LOOKED FOR ANOTHER ATTORNEY GENERAL. HIS THIRD IN TWO WEEKS. HE NEEDED TO FIND SOMEONE WHO WAS WILLING TO IGNORE THE FACTS. THAT IS NOT THE NORM. LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THEY HAVE SAID ABOUT UPHOLDING THEIR OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION. >> ATTORNEY GENERAL, ULTIMATELY, THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE INTEGRITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND TO THE FIDELITY TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LEGITIMATE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY. THAT IS WHAT HE IS ULTIMATELY REQUIRED TO DO. >> I WILL BE AN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE PEOPLE'S LAWYER. IF THERE WAS AN ISSUE I THOUGHT THAT WAS THAT SIGNIFICANT, THAT WOULD COMPROMISE MY ABILITY TO SERVE AS ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE WAY I HAVE DESCRIBED, AS THE PEOPLE'S LAWYER, I WILL NOT HESITATE TO RESIGN. >> HE PROPOSED TO UNDERTAKE A COURSE OF CONDUCT THAT WAS IN VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION, THAT WOULD PRESENT ME WITH A DIFFICULT BUT NOT COMPLEX PROBLEM, I WOULD HAVE TWO CHOICES. I COULD TRY TO TALK HIM OUT OF IT OR LEAVE. THOSE ARE THE CHOICES. >> THE POSITION AS A CABINET MEMBER IS PERHAPS UNIQUE FROM ALL OF THE CABINET MEMBERS. YES, HE IS A MEMBER OF THE CABINET. THEY HAVE THE UNIQUE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE INDEPENDENT AND OBJECTIVE ADVICE TO THE PRESIDENT OR ANY AGENCY WHEN IT IS SOUGHT. SOMETIMES, EVEN WHEN IT IS NOT SOUGHT. >> EVERYONE IN THAT VIDEO FROM ERIC HOLDER TO JEFF SESSIONS SPOKE AS ONE ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE DEPARTMENT. IT IS A POINT OF PRIDE, TO APPLY THE LAW WITHOUT SELF INTEREST OF THE PRESIDENT DICTATING HOW THEY USE ITS AUTHORITIES. BUT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP DID FIND ONE CANDIDATE WHO SEEMED WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO HELP HIM STAY IN POWER. LET'S SEE WHAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S OWN LAWYER, ERIC HERSCHMANN, HAD TO SAY ABOUT JEFF CLARK'S PLAN TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION. I WOULD LIKE TO REVISE VIEWERS THIS CONTAINS A STRONG LANGUAGE. >> WHEN HE FINISHED DISCUSSING WHAT HE PLANNED TO DO -- I SAID [ BLEEP ] HIM. CONGRATULATIONS HE WILL BE COMMITTING A FELONY. >> WHO IS JEFF CLARK? AN ENVIRONMENTAL LAWYER WITH NO EXPERIENCE RELEVANT TO LEADING THE ENTIRE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. WHAT WAS THE ONLY QUALIFICATION? THAT HE WOULD DO WHATEVER THE PRESIDENT WANTED HIM TO DO, INCLUDING OVERTHROWING A FREE AND FAIR DEMOCRATIC ELECTION. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN CULMINATED IN A SHOWDOWN ON JANUARY 3rd. TODAY, WE WILL TAKE YOU INSIDE THAT EARLY EVENING IN THE OVAL OFFICE WHERE TOP OFFICIALS MET WITH THE PRESIDENT. AT STAKE, THE LEADERSHIP AND INTEGRITY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. >> THE MEETING TOOK ANOTHER 2 1/2 HOURS FROM THE TIME I ENTERED AND IT WAS ENTIRELY FOCUSED ON WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE A DOJ LEADERSHIP CHANGE. I WOULD SAY DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE PRESIDENT WITH JEFF CLARK TO MY RIGHT -- WHY SHOULDN'T I DO THAT? THAT IS HOW IT WENT. >> JEFF CLARK WAS PROPOSING THAT JEFFREY ROSEN BE REPLACED. I THOUGHT THE PROPOSAL WAS BAFFLING. >> WHY WAS IT IN HIS INTEREST FOR HIM -- WHAT WOULD HE DO? HOW WOULD THINGS CHANGE ACCORDING TO MR. CLARK? HE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT IF HE WAS THERE, HE WOULD CONDUCT REAL INVESTIGATIONS THAT WOULD, IN HIS VIEW, UNCOVER WIDESPREAD FRAUD AND HE WOULD SEND OUT THE LETTER THAT HE HAD DRAFTED, AND THAT THIS WAS THE LAST OPPORTUNITY TO SORT OF SET THINGS STRAIGHT WITH THIS DECEPTIVE ELECTION, THAT HE COULD DO IT AND HE HAD THE INTELLIGENCE AND THE WILL AND THE DESIRE TO PURSUE THESE MATTERS IN THE WAY THE PRESIDENT WANTED TO. >> AND HE WAS MAKING THEM PAY ATTENTION EVERY TIME. HE COULD CALL UP THE ORDER. IT IS SURE DECISION. YOU GET A CHANCE TO MAKE THIS DECISION. YOU CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION. THEN HE WOULD JUMP BACK IN. YOU KNOW, HE WOULD REALLY CLOBBER HIM. >> I MADE THE POINT THAT JEFF CLARK IS NOT EVEN COMPETENT TO SERVE. HE IS NEVER BEEN A CRIMINAL ATTORNEY OR CONDUCTED A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION IN HIS LIFE. HE KIND OF RECORDED BY SAYING, WELL, I HAVE DONE A LOT OF COMPLICATED CIVIL LITIGATION AND ENVIRONMENTAL LITIGATION ON A SET, THAT IS RIGHT, BUT HOW ABOUT YOU GO BACK TO YOUR OFFICE AND WE WILL CALL YOU WHEN THERE IS AN OIL SPILL? HE WEIGHED IN AT ONE POINT. I REMEMBER HIM SAYING, YOU KNOW, THAT LETTER THAT THIS GUY WANTS TO SPEND, THAT IS A MURDER/SUICIDE THING. WE SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT LETTER. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT LETTER AGAIN. SO, WE WENT ALONG THOSE LINES. >> I THOUGHT HIS PROPOSAL WAS NUTS. AT CERTAIN POINTS, THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT OR ELECTION CHALLENGES IS THEY BOTH START WITH E. I AM NOT SURE YOU EVEN KNOW THAT. >> SUPPOSE I DO THIS -- WHAT DO YOU DO? >> WE KNOW THESE MEN BEFORE US DID THE RIGHT THING. THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IF NEW JUSTICE OFFICIALS MAKE A DIFFERENT DECISION. WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY BOW TO THE PRESSURE. WHAT WOULD THAT DO TO US AS A DEMOCRACY, AS A NATION? IMAGINE A FUTURE WHERE THE PRESIDENT CAN SCREEN APPLICANTS WITH ONE QUESTION. ARE YOU LOYAL TO ME OR TO THE CONSTITUTION? IT WOULD NOT TAKE LONG TO FIND PEOPLE WILLING TO PLEDGE THEIR LOYALTY TO THE MAN. WE KNOW MANY OF PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S VOCAL SUPPORTERS ON JANUARY 6th ALSO WANTED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO DO WHATEVER HE ASKED, AS LONG AS IT MEANT HE COULD STAY IN POWER. THEY MADE SURE OFFICIALS HEARD HIS MESSAGE AS THEY PROTESTED LOUDLY IN FRONT OF THE DEPARTMENT ON THEIR WAY TO THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th. >> DO YOUR JOB. >> DO YOUR JOB. >> WE ARE AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, TELLING HIM TO DO HIS JOB. >> WE ARE AT THE CAPITOL. >> I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO SPEAK DIRECTLY TO MY FELLOW REPUBLICANS. IMAGINE THE COUNTRY'S TOP PROSECUTOR WITH THE POWER TO OPEN AN INVESTIGATION, SUBPOEN , CHARGE CRIMES, AND SEEK IMPRISONMENT, IMAGINE THAT OFFICIAL PURSUING THE AGENDA OF THE OTHER PARTY INSTEAD OF THAT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS A WHOLE? IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT, IMAGINE IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. TODAY, PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S TOTAL DISREGARD FOR THE CONSTITUTION AND HIS OATH WILL BE FULLY EXPOSED. LET'S GET THIS HEARING UNDERWAY SO WE CAN DO OUR PART TO PROTECT THE FREEDOM THAT WE OFTEN TAKE FOR GRANTED, SO THAT WE CAN SEE HOW CLOSE WE CAME TO LOSING IT ALL AND HOW -- I YIELD BACK TO THE CHAIRMAN. >> WE ARE JOINED TODAY BY THREE DISTINGUISHED WITNESSES, WHO EACH SERVED IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN THE MONTHS PRECEDING JANUARY 6th. MR. JEFFREY ROSEN SERVED AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ON MAY 2019 UNTIL JANUARY 2021. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S NOMINATION AND THE CONFIRMATION THE UNITED STATES SENATE. HE BECAME THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL IN DECEMBER 2020. HE TOOK THE MANTLE OF ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL. MR. RICHARD DONOGHUE HAS SERVED IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FOR OVER 14 YEARS. MR. DONAHUE WAS AN ATTORNEY FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK. FINALLY, THE ACTING DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL. HE ALSO SERVED MORE THAN 20 YEARS IN THE UNITED STATES MILITARY, INCLUDING THE 82nd AIRBORNE AND THE GENERAL CORE. WE ARE ALSO JOINED BY MR. STEPHEN INGLE, THE FORMER ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL. HE WAS NOMINATED BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE DURING THE TOP ADMINISTRATION. HE SERVED FROM NOVEMBER 20 17th TO JANUARY 2021 AND HAS NOW RETURNED TO PRIVATE PRACTICE. I WILL NOW SWEAR IN OUR WITNESSES. WILL THEY PLEASE STAND AND RAISE THE RIGHT HAND? DO YOU SWEAR FROM THE PENALTY OF PERJURY THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? THANK YOU. YOU MAY BE SEATED. LET THEM REFLECT THE AFFIRMATIVE. I NOW RECOGNIZE MYSELF FOR QUESTIONS. FIRST OF ALL, GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY. ALL OF YOU SERVED AT FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S PLEASURE AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. TOP LEADERSHIP POSITIONS WERE WITH RESPONDENTS -- BILL BARR TOLD THE SELECT COMMITTEE THAT BEFORE HE LEFT THE DEPARTMENT IN DECEMBER 2020, HE TOLD PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ON AT LEAST THREE OCCASIONS THAT THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD ELECTION FRAUD THAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE RESULTS OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND REFUTED NUMEROUS SPECIFIC CLAIMS OF ELECTION FRAUD. MR. ROSEN, AFTER MR. BARR ANNOUNCED HIS RESIGNATION, DID PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP CONTINUE TO DEMAND THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATE HIS CLAIMS OF ELECTION FRAUD? >> YES. HE ASSERTED THAT HE THOUGHT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAD NOT DONE ENOUGH. >> THANK YOU. FROM THE TIME YOU TOOK OVER FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR UNTIL JANUARY 3rd, HOW OFTEN DID PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP CONTACT YOU OR THE DEPARTMENT TO PUSH ALLEGATIONS OF ELECTION FRAUD? >> BETWEEN DECEMBER 23rd AND JANUARY 3rd, THE PRESIDENT EITHER CALLED ME OR MET WITH ME VIRTUALLY EVERY DAY WITH ONE OR TWO EXCEPTIONS BY CHRISTMAS DAY. BEFORE THAT, BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN ANNOUNCED I WOULD BECOME THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL BEFORE THE DAY I DID, HE HAD ASKED THAT RICH DONAHUE AND I GO AND MEET WITH HIM ON DECEMBER 15th AS WELL. >> AFTER YOU WENT TO SOME OF THESE MEETINGS AND HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT, WHAT THINGS DID THE PRESIDENT RAISE WITH YOU? >> THE COMMON ELEMENT OF ALL OF THIS WAS HE WAS EXPRESSING HIS DISSATISFACTION THAT THEY HAD NOT DONE ENOUGH TO INVESTIGATE ELECTION FRAUD, BUT A DIFFERENT JUNCTURE HAPPENED -- OTHER TOPICS CAME UP AT INTERVALS, SO AT ONE POINT, HE HAD RAISED THE QUESTION OF HAVING A SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR ELECTION FRAUD AT A NUMBER OF POINTS. HE REQUESTED THAT I MEET WITH HIS CAMPAIGN COUNSELOR, MR. GIULIANI. AT ONE POINT, HE RAISED WHETHER THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WOULD FILE A LAWSUIT IN THE SUPREME COURT. A COUPLE OF JUNCTURES, THERE WERE PEOPLE MAKING PUBLIC STATEMENTS ABOUT HOPING THERE WOULD BE A PRESS CONFERENCE. AT ONE OF THE LATER JUNCTURES, THERE WAS AN ISSUE OF SENDING A LETTER TO STATE LEGISLATURES IN GEORGIA OR OTHER STATES AND THEIR DIFFERENT THINGS RAISED AND DIFFERENT PARTS OF DIFFERENT INTERVALS WITH THE COMMON THING BEING THIS DISSATISFACTION ABOUT WHAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAD DONE TO INVESTIGATE ELECTION FRAUD. I WILL SAY THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DECLINED ALL OF THOSE REQUESTS THAT I WAS JUST REFERENCING BECAUSE WE DID NOT THINK THAT THEY WERE APPROPRIATE BASED ON THE FACTS AND THE LAW AS WE UNDERSTOOD THEM. >> THANK YOU. MR. DONAHUE, ON DECEMBER 15th, THE DAY AFTER ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR ANNOUNCED HIS RESIGNATION, THE PRESIDENT SUMMONED YOU AND MR. ROSEN TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND MET WITH THE PRESIDENT. WHAT DID HE WANT TO DISCUSS? >> THERE WERE A NUMBER OF TOPICS OF DISCUSSION THAT DAY, MR. CHAIRMAN. MUCH OF THE CONVERSATION FOCUSED ON A REPORT THAT HAD BEEN RECENTLY RELEASED DUE TO SOMETHING IN MICHIGAN. I BELIEVE ON DECEMBER 13th AN ORGANIZATION CALLED THE ALLIED SECURITY GROUP ISSUED A REPORT THAT ALLEGED VOTING MACHINES IN THAT COUNTY HAD A 60% ERROR RATE AND THE REPORT WAS WIDELY COVERED IN THE MEDIA AND THEY WERE AWARE OF IT. WE OBTAINED A COPY ON THE 14th OF DECEMBER, THE DAY PRIOR. WE CIRCULATED IT TO THEM AND WE HAD A NUMBER OF DISCUSSIONS. THE CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESIDENT ON THAT DAY WAS LARGELY FOCUSED ON THAT. HE WAS ESSENTIALLY SAYING, HAVE YOU SEEN THIS REPORT? HE WAS ADAMANT IT MUST BE ACCURATE AND IMPROVES THE ELECTION WAS DEFECTIVE AND THAT HE HAD WON THE ELECTION AND THE DEPARTMENT SHOULD BE USING THAT REPORT TO BASICALLY TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT THE RESULTS WERE NOT TRUSTWORTHY. HE WENT ON TO OTHER SERIES AS WELL, BUT THE BULK OF THAT CONVERSATION ON DECEMBER 15th FOCUS ON ENTERING THE COUNTIES IN MICHIGAN AND LOOKING AT THAT REPORT. >> THANK YOU. WE KNOW THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR ANNOUNCED ON DECEMBER 1st, 2020, THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAD FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD FRAUD THAT COULD HAVE CHANGED THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. SO, FROM DECEMBER 1st, 2020, UNTIL TODAY, AS YOU SIT HERE, HAVE YOU EVER DOUBTED THAT CONCLUSION? >> NO, BAD NO REASON TO DOUBT HIS CONCLUSION. >> THANK YOU. NOW SECTION 5 -- THE CHAIR NOW RECOGNIZES A GENTLEMAN FROM ILLINOIS, FOR QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. IN THE WEEKS LEADING TO JANUARY 6th, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WAS FIELDING ALMOST DAILY REQUESTS FROM THE PRESIDENT TO INVESTIGATE CLAIMS OF ELECTION FRAUD. EACH CLAIM WAS REFUTED TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND ATTORNEY BARR DESCRIBED IT AS WHACK-A-MOLE. WHEN EACH OF HIS EFFORTS FAILED, IT RESULTED IN INSTALLING A NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL TO SAY IT WAS CORRUPT BEFORE HE COULD -- PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP STARTED LEANING ON THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THE FIRST CHANCE HE GOT ON NOVEMBER 29th. HIS FIRST TELEVISION INTERVIEW AFTER THE ELECTION -- >> WHERE IS THE DOJ AND THE FBI IN ALL THIS, MR. PRESIDENT? YOU HAVE WEED OUT SOME SERIOUS CHARGES. IS THIS SOMETHING THE FBI IS INVESTIGATING? IS THE DOJ INVESTIGATING? >> MISSING IN ACTION. I CANNOT TELL YOU WHERE YOU ARE. >> THEY ECHOED THE PRESIDENT TWO DAYS LATER AND WROTE A LETTER TO ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR, WEIGHING INTO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR A, QUOTE, SHOCKING LACK OF ACTION. THEY INVESTIGATED THE CLAIM SEVEN -- THAT SAME DAY, ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR STATED PUBLICLY THAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S CLAIM HAD NO MERIT. HE IGNORED -- REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN AMPLIFIED THE STOLEN ELECTION MESSAGE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. LET'S LISTEN. >> THERE IS WIDESPREAD EVIDENCE OF FRAUD. PEOPLE HAVE NOT DONE THEIR JOBS. THEY DESERVE A BIG NOTATION IN HISTORY WHEN IT IS WRITTEN ABOUT THE RISE AND FALL OF THE UNITED STATES IF THEY DO NOT CLEAN UP THIS MESS, CLEAN UP THE FRAUD, DO YOUR JOBS AND SAVE THIS EXPERIMENT IN SELF GOVERNMENT. >> I AM CALLING ON ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR TO IMMEDIATELY LET US KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. >> WE ARE CHALLENGING TO CERTIFY -- HOW PATHETIC IS IT? >> JANUARY 6th, I AM JOINING WITH THE FIGHTERS IN CONGRESS AND WE ARE GOING TO OBJECT TO ELECTORS FROM STATES THAT DID NOT RUN A FREE ELECTION. >> DEMOCRACY IS LEFT UNDEFENDED IF WE ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF A STOLEN ELECTION WITHOUT FIGHTING WITH EVERY BIT OF VIGOR WE CAN MUSTER. >> THE ULTIMATE DATE OF SIGNIFICANCE IS JANUARY 6th. THIS IS HOW THE PROCESS WORKS. THE ULTIMATE ARBITER HERE, THE ULTIMATE CHECK AND BALANCE IS THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS AND WHEN SOMETHING IS DONE IN CONSTITUTIONAL FASHIONS, WE HAVE A DUTY TO STEP FORWARD AND HAVE THIS DEBATE AND HAVE THIS VOTE ON THE SIXTH OF JANUARY. >> TODAY IS THE DAY AMERICAN PATRIOTS START TAKING DOWN NAMES AND KICKING [ BLEEP ]. >> MR. DONAHUE, ON NOVEMBER 27th, YOU HAD A 90 MINUTE CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESIDENT, WHERE HE RAISED FALSE CLAIM AFTER FALSE CLAIM ABOUT MR. ROSEN. HOW DID YOU RESPOND TO WHAT THEY CALLED A, QUOTE, STREAM OF ALLEGATIONS? >> THE CONVERSATIONS ON NOVEMBER 27th WERE, IN MY MIND, AN ESCALATION OF OTHER CONVERSATIONS AS THE FORMER ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL . THERE WERE A LOT OF COMMUNICATIONS THAT PRECEDED THAT. AS WE GOT LATER IN THE MONTH, HIS -- HE WAS MORE ADAMANT WE WERE NOT DOING OUR JOBS AND WE NEEDED TO STEP UP AND DO OUR JOB. HE HAVE THIS ARSENAL OF ALLEGATIONS THAT HE WANTED TO RELY ON. I THOUGHT THAT WAS INCUMBENT ON THE TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO THE PRESIDENT WHAT OUR INVESTIGATIONS HAD REVEALED AND THAT WE HAD CONCLUDED, BASED ON ACTUAL INVESTIGATIONS, ACTUAL WITNESS INTERVIEWS, ACTUAL REVIEWS OF DOCUMENTS, THAT THESE ALLEGATIONS HAD NO MERIT AND I WANTED TO TRY TO CUT THROUGH THE NOISE BECAUSE IT WAS CLEAR TO US A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE LISTENING TO THESE ALLEGATIONS AND I THOUGHT BEING VERY BLUNT IN THAT CONVERSATION MIGHT HELP MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE PRESIDENT THAT THESE ALLEGATIONS WERE SIMPLY NOT TRUE. HE WENT THROUGH THEM AND WORKED FOR ME WITH A 90 MINUTE CONVERSATION OR SO AND THERE WAS A TWO HOUR CONVERSATION, AND HE WENT THROUGH IT ALL. I WENT PIECE BY PIECE TO SAY, NO, THAT IS FALSE. THAT IS NOT TRUE. I CORRECTED HIM, REALLY, IN A FASHION WHEN HE MOVED FROM ONE THEORY TO ANOTHER. >> CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE? >> ONE THAT WAS CLEAR WAS THE REPORT THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER. THEY TO REPORT THAT 60% ERROR RATE WAS HAPPENING. THERE WAS A HAND RECOUNT AND IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEPARTMENT. THEY DID NOT REQUEST THAT. IT WAS BROUGHT -- THERE WAS A HAND RECOUNT. THEY COMPARED IT TO WHAT THE MACHINES HAD RECORDED AND FOR THE BALLOTS THAT WERE COUNTED BY MACHINE, MORE THAN 15,000, THERE WAS ONE ERROR, ONE BALLOT. I DID A QUICK CALCULATION AND CAME UP WITH 0.0036%. SO, I MADE VERY CLEAR TO THE PRESIDENT, BECAUSE HE WAS SO FIXATED ON DECEMBER 15th, THAT, IN FACT, OUR INVESTIGATION REVEALED THAT THE ERROR RATE WAS 0.0036%. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU, THAT IS NOT TRUE AND THAT YOU CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT BE RELYING ON IT. THAT WAS ONE EXPLICIT THING I SAID AND YOU SEE THAT REFLECTED IN MY NOTES. WE LOOKED AT OTHERS, LIKE THE TRUCK DRIVER WHO CLAIMED TO HAVE MOVED AN ENTIRE TRACTOR TRAILER OF BALLOTS FROM NEW YORK TO PENNSYLVANIA. THAT WAS ALSO INCORRECT. WE DID AN INVESTIGATION WITH THE FBI AT THE FRONT END AND THE BACK END OF THAT TRANSIT FROM NEW YORK TO PENNSYLVANIA. WE LOOKED AT THE LOADING MANIFEST AND TALK TO WITNESSES, INCLUDING THE DRIVER, AND WE KNEW IT WAS NOT TRUE. WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT, IT JUST WAS NOT TRUE. THAT WAS ANOTHER ONE I TRIED TO EDUCATE THE PRESIDENT ON. THERE WERE A SERIES OF OTHERS, MOSTLY IN SWING STATES, OF COURSE. HE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT GEORGIA. HE BELIEVED THIS VIDEO WAS, AS HE SAID, FRAUD RIGHT IN THE FACE. >> WERE ANY OF THOSE ALLEGATIONS CREDIBLE? >> NO. >> DURING THIS CONVERSATION, DID YOU TAKE HANDWRITTEN NOTES, DIRECTLY QUOTING THE PRESIDENT? >> I DID. TO MAKE IT CLEAR, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL -- I WOULD BE ON THE PHONE WITH THE PRESIDENT FOR SOME TIME. HE HAD A LOT OF ALLEGATIONS. I WAS VERSED IN WHAT THE DEPARTMENT HAD DONE BECAUSE I HAD CLOSER CONTACT WITH THE INVESTIGATION AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ASKED ME TO GET ON THE CALL. OF COURSE, I AGREED. I BEGAN TAKING NOTES ONLY BECAUSE AT THE OUTSET, MADE AN ALLEGATION I HAD NOT HEARD. WHEN THE PRESIDENT -- WHEN I CAME INTO THE CONVERSATION, WHEN HE BEGAN SPEAKING, HE BROUGHT ONE THAT I WAS UNAWARE OF, AND, OF COURSE, THAT CONCERNED US. I SIMPLY REACHED OUT AND I TOOK A PEN AND HE STARTED JOTTING IT DOWN. THAT HAD TO DO WITH AN ALLEGATION THAT MORE THAN 200,000 VOTES WERE CERTIFIED IN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA THAT WERE NOT ACTUALLY CAST. SOMETIMES THE PRESIDENT WOULD SAY IT WAS 205,000 OR 250,000. I HAVE NOT HEARD THIS BEFORE AND I WANTED TO GET THE ALLEGATION DOWN CLEARLY SO THAT WE COULD LOOK INTO IT IF APPROPRIATE AND THAT IS WHY I STARTED TAKING NOTES AND THEN AS THE CONVERSATION CONTINUED, I CONTINUED TO TAKE NOTES. >> LET'S LOOK AT THE NOTES, IF WE COULD RIGHT NOW. AS WE CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN, YOU ACTUALLY QUOTE PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ASKING WHERE IS THE DOJ, LIKELY HEARD HIM SAY IN THE FIRST TELEVISION INTERVIEW. HOW DID YOU RESPOND TO THAT? >> SO, BOTH OF US TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THE PRESIDENT ON THIS OCCASION AND ON SEVERAL OTHER OCCASIONS THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS A VERY IMPORTANT AND VERY SPECIFIC AND VERY LIMITED ROLE IN ELECTIONS. STATES RUN THE ELECTIONS. WE ARE NOT QUALITY CONTROL. WE ARE OBVIOUSLY INTERESTED IN HAVING A MISSION THAT RELATES TO CRIMINAL CONDUCT AND IN RELATION TO FEDERAL ELECTIONS AND ALSO HAVE RELATED CIVIL RIGHTS AND POSSIBILITIES. WE DO HAVE AN IMPORTANT ROLE BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE STATE RAN THEIR ELECTION IN SUCH A WAY THAT IS DEFECTIVE, THAT IS FOR THE STATE OR CONGRESS TO CORRECT, NOT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. I CERTAINLY UNDERSTOOD THE PRESIDENT NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DID NOT HAVE AT LEAST A CIVIL ROLE TO STEP IN AND BRING SUIT ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WE TRIED TO EXPLAIN THAT TO HIM. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT CONSTITUTE THE CLIENTS OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. THE ONE AND ONLY CLIENT IS THE UNITED STATES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. THEY DO NOT HAVE STANDING AS WE WERE REPEATEDLY TOLD BY OUR INTERNAL TEAMS LED BY STEVE ENGEL, ALONG WITH THE -- WE RESEARCHED IT AND GOT THOROUGH OPINIONS THAT WE DID NOT HAVE STANDING. WE TRIED TO EXPLAIN THAT TO THE PRESIDENT ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS. >> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR NOTES. YOU ALSO NOTED THAT MR. ROSEN SAID TO MR. TRUMP, QUOTE, THE DOJ CANNOT SNAP HIS FINGERS AND CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. HOW DID THE PRESIDENT RESPOND TO THAT? >> HE RESPONDED VERY QUICKLY AND SAID, ESSENTIALLY, THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M ASKING YOU TO DO. I'M ASKING YOU TO SAY IT WAS CORRUPT AND LEAVE THE REST TO ME AND THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN. >> LET'S PUT UP THE MODES WHERE YOU QUOTE THE PRESIDENT, AS YOU ARE SPEAKING. YOU SAID THE PRESIDENT SAID JUST SAY THE ELECTION WAS CORRUPT AND LEAVE THE REST TO ME AND THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN. SO, MR. DONAHUE, THAT IS A CORRECT QUOTE FROM PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, CORRECT? >> THAT IS AN EXACT QUOTE FROM THE PRESIDENT, YES. >> THE NEXT NO-SHOWS EVEN THE PRESIDENT KEPT PRESSING, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD, THE PRESIDENT KEPT SAYING THE DEPARTMENT WAS, QUOTE, OBLIGATED TO TELL PEOPLE THAT THIS WAS AN ILLEGAL, CORRUPT ELECTION. >> THAT IS ALSO AN EXACT QUOTE FROM THE PRESIDENT, YES. >> TO BE CLEAR, THE DEPARTMENT, DID THEY FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING ILLEGAL OR CORRUPT ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION? >> THERE WERE ISOLATED INSTANCES OF FRAUD. NONE OF THEM CAME CLOSE TO CALLING INTO QUESTION THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION IN ANY INDIVIDUAL STATE. >> HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE HIS DEMEANOR DURING THAT CALL? >> HE WAS MORE EDUCATED THAN HE WAS ON DECEMBER 15th. THE PRESIDENT, THROUGHOUT ALL THESE MEETINGS AND TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS, WAS ADAMANT HE HAD WON AND WE WERE NOT DOING OUR JOB. HOWEVER, IT DID ESCALATE OVER TIME UNTIL, ULTIMATELY, THE MEETING ON JANUARY 3rd, WHICH WAS THE MOST EXTREME OF ANY CONVERSATION. >> WE WANT TO NOT GLOSS THIS OVER. JUST SAY IT WAS CORRUPT AND LEAVE THE REST TO US. THE PRESIDENT WANTED THE TOP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS TO DECLARE THAT THE ELECTION WAS CORRUPT, EVEN THOUGH, AS HE KNEW, THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT STATEMENT? HE DID NOT CARE ABOUT ACTUALLY INVESTIGATING THE FACTS. HE DOES WANTED THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO PUT ITS STAMP OF APPROVAL. IT WAS GOING TO HELP HIM. MR. ROSEN, ON CHRISTMAS EVE, YOUR FIRST OFFICIAL DAY OF THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP CALLED YOU. WHAT DID HE WANT TO TALK ABOUT? >> THE SAME THING HE WAS TALKING ABOUT PUBLICLY. HE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THAT HE THOUGHT THE ELECTION HAD BEEN STOLEN OR WAS CORRUPT AND THAT THERE WAS WIDESPREAD FRAUD AND I TOLD HIM THE REVIEWS HAD NOT SHOWN THAT TO BE THE CASE, SO WE HAD AN EXTENDED DISCUSSION, PROBABLY 15 OR 20 MINUTES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH HIM URGING THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SHOULD BE DOING MORE WITH REGARD TO ELECTION FRAUD. >> DID HE MENTION JEFF CLARK'S NAME? >> YES. IT WAS JUST IN PASSING. I REGARDED IT AS A PECULIAR REFERENCE. I DO NOT REMEMBER THE EXACT QUOTE BUT IT WAS LIKE DID I KNOW JEFF CLARK OR WHO HE WAS? I TOLD HIM I DID AND THEN THE CONVERSATION JUST MOVED ON. WHEN I HUNG UP, I WAS QUIZZICAL AS TO HOW DOES THE PRESIDENT EVEN KNOW MR. CLARK? I WAS NOT AWARE THEY HAD EVER MET, OR THAT HE HAD BEEN INVOLVED WITH ANY OF THE ISSUES. IT WAS A BIT OF A SURPRISE. >> MR. CLARK WAS THE ACTING HEAD OF THE CIVIL DIVISION AND HEAD OF ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATIONAL RESOURCES AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. DO EITHER OF THOSE DIVISIONS HAVE ANY ROLE WHATSOEVER IN INVESTIGATING ELECTION FRAUD, SIR? >> NO, TO MY AWARENESS, HE HAD NO PRIOR INVOLVEMENT OF ANY KIND WITH REGARD TO THE WORK THE DEPARTMENT WAS DOING UNDER ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR. >> TAKE A MINUTE TO EXPLAIN WHY THE PRESIDENT MENTIONED JEFF CLARK'S NAME TO MR. ROSEN ON CHRISTMAS EVE. ON DECEMBER 23rd, SOME REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MET WITH PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE TO TALK ABOUT OVERTURNING THE 2020 ELECTION. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE TALKED ABOUT HOW THIS MEETING GOT SET UP. >> I CALLED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ON SATURDAY AND SAID THIS GUY HAS A MEETING. THERE ARE MANY OF US THAT FEEL LIKE THE ELECTION HAS BEEN STOLEN. >> ON THE SCREEN, YOU WILL SEE PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S CHIEF OF STAFF, MARK MEADOWS, TWEETED ABOUT THAT MEETING AFTER IT HAPPENED. HE SAID, QUOTE, SEVERAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS JUST FINISHED A MEETING WITH PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, PREPARING TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST MOUNTING EVIDENCE OF VOTER FRAUD. STAY TUNED. ON THE SAME DAY, HE MET WITH HIS REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, AND PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP CALLED INTO A CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL CONVENTION AND USED THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESSURE THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO INVESTIGATE HIS BOGUS CLAIMS. >> THE PROBLEM IS WE NEED A PARTY THAT IS GOING TO FIGHT AND WE HAVE SOME GREAT CONGRESSMEN AND WOMEN AND WE HAVE OTHERS THAT ARE GREAT FIGHTERS, BUT WE WON THIS IN A LANDSLIDE. THEY KNOW IT. WE NEED BACKING FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT CAN FINALLY STEP UP. >> BEFORE -- THAT SHOW SCOTT PERRY WAS ONE OF THE CONGRESSMEN WHO JOINED THAT MEETING, WE LEARNED FROM WHITE HOUSE RECORDS THAT YOU WILL NOW SEE ON-SCREEN THAT THE VERY NEXT DAY, REPRESENTATIVE PERRY RETURN TO THE WHITE HOUSE. THIS TIME, HE BROUGHT A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL NAMED JEFFREY CLARK. HE PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT TO A LOCAL AFFILIATE. HE SAID, QUOTE, THROUGHOUT THE PAST FOUR YEARS, I'VE WORKED WITH ATTORNEY GENERAL CLARK ON VARIOUS LEGISLATIVE MATTERS. WHEN PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ASKED IF I WOULD MAKE AN INTRODUCTION, I OBLIGED. BUT WHY JEFF CLARK? LET'S HEAR MR. GIULIANI EXPLAIN THE KIND OF PERSON HE AND THE PRESIDENT WANTED AT THE TOP OF JUSTICE. >> DEAR REMEMBER RECOMMENDING TO ANYBODY THAT MR. CLARK, THE DOJ, BE GIVEN ELECTION-RELATED RESPONSIBILITY? >> YOU MEAN ON THE PRESIDENT? >> CORRECT. >> BEYOND THE PRESIDENT, I DO RECALL SAYING TO PEOPLE THAT SOMEBODY SHOULD BE PUT IN CHARGE OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHO IS NOT FRIGHTENED OF WHAT IS GOING TO BE DONE TO THEIR REPUTATION. SOMETHING LIKE THAT. >> SOMEBODY THAT IS NOT FRIGHTENED ABOUT WHAT WILL BE DONE WITH THEIR REPUTATION. MR. DONAHUE WHO, WHEN YOU SAID THAT THERE WERE -- WAS IT BECAUSE YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT YOUR REPUTATION? >> NO, NOT AT ALL. >> MR. CLARK'S NAME WAS ALSO MENTIONED IN THE WHITE HOUSE IN LATE DECEMBER AND EARLY JANUARY, AS DESCRIBED BY A TOP AIDE TO MARK MEADOWS, CASSIDY HUTCHINSON. MR. ROSEN COME AFTER CALL WITH PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ON DECEMBER 24th, YOU SPOKE WITH MR. CLARK ON DECEMBER 26th ABOUT HIS CONTACT WITH THE PRESIDENT. CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION? >> YES, BECAUSE I HAD BEEN QUIZZICAL ABOUT WHY HIS NAME HAD COME UP, I CALLED THEM AND I TRIED TO EXPLORE IF YOU WOULD SHARE IF THERE WAS SOMETHING I DID NOT KNOW. AFTER SOME BACK AND FORTH, HE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT SHORTLY BEFORE CHRISTMAS, HE HAD GONE TO A MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT. THAT, OF COURSE, SURPRISED ME, AND I ASKED HIM, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? HE WAS DEFENSIVE. HE SAID IT HAD BEEN ON PLANS. HE HAD BEEN TALKING TO SOMEONE HE REFERRED TO AS GENERAL PERRY, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS CONGRESSMAN PERRY. UNBEKNOWNST TO HIM, HE WAS ASKED TO GO TO A MEETING. IT TURNED OUT IT WAS -- HE FOUND HIMSELF AT THE OVAL OFFICE AND HE WAS APOLOGETIC FOR THAT AND I SAID IT WAS NOT AUTHORIZED AND HE DID NOT EVEN TELL ME AFTER THE FACT. THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATE. HE WAS CONTRITE AND SAID IT WAS INADVERTENT AND IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN AGAIN AND IF ANYONE ASKED HIM TO GO TO SUCH A MEETING, HE WOULD NOTIFY DONAHUE AND ME. >> IS THERE A POLICY THAT GOVERNANCE HAVE CONTACT DIRECTLY WITH THE WHITE HOUSE? >> YES. ACROSS MANY ADMINISTRATIONS FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THERE IS A POLICY, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS, THAT RESTRICT THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT END. THEY GO TO THE HIGHEST RANKS. FOR CRIMINAL MATTERS, THE POLICY, FOR A LONG TIME, HAS BUT ONLY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THE DOJ SIDE CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CRIMINAL MATTERS WITH THE WHITE HOUSE OR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN AUTHORIZE SOMEONE FOR A SPECIFIC ITEM BUT THE IDEA IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TOP RUNG OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT KNOWS ABOUT IT AND WANTS TO MAKE SURE ONLY APPROPRIATE THINGS ARE DONE. >> FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO POLICY LIKE -- >> IT IS CRITICAL THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CONDUCTS ITS CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS FREE FROM THE REALITY OR APPEARANCE OF POLITICAL INTERFERENCE. PEOPLE CAN GET IN TROUBLE IF PEOPLE AT THE WHITE HOUSE ARE SPEAKING WITH PEOPLE AT THE DEPARTMENT AND THAT IS WHY THE PURPOSE OF THESE POLICIES IS TO KEEP THESE COMMUNICATIONS AS INFREQUENT AND AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS AS POSSIBLE, JUST TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE WHO ARE LESS CAREFUL ABOUT IT, WHO DO NOT REALLY UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS, SUCH AS MR. CLARK, DO NOT RUN AFOUL OF THESE POLICIES. >> THE SELECT COMMITTEE CONDUCTED AN INTERVIEW WITH SOMEONE ABOUT THEIR CONTACT WITH MR. CLARK. THEY HAVE YET AGREED -- BUT PAT TOLD THE SELECT COMMITTEE HE INTERVENED WHEN HE HEARD MR. CLARK WAS MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT ABOUT LEGAL MATTERS WITHOUT HIS KNOWLEDGE, WHICH WAS STRICTLY AGAINST WHITE HOUSE POLICY. LIKE MR. ROSEN, THEY TOLD MR. CLARK TO STAND DOWN AND HE DID NOT. ON THE SAME DAY, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL ROSEN TOLD MR. CLARK TO STOP TALKING TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND REPRESENTATIVE PERRY WAS URGING MARK MEADOWS TO ELEVATE CLARK WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN BEHIND ME A SERIES OF TEXT BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVE PERRY AND MR. MEADOWS. THEY SHOW THAT REPRESENTATIVE PERRY REQUESTED THAT MR. CLARK BE ELEVATED WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT. REPRESENTATIVE PERRY TOLD MR. MEADOWS ON DECEMBER 26th THAT, QUOTE, JUST CHECK IN . 11 DAYS UNTIL JANUARY 6th AND 25 DAYS UNTIL INAUGURATION. WE HAVE GOT TO GET GOING. REPRESENTATIVE PERRY FOLLOWED UP AND SAYS, QUOTE, MARK, YOU SHOULD CALL JEFF. I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH HIM AND HE EXPLAINED TO ME WHY THE PRINCIPAL DEPUTY WILL NOT WORK, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FBI. THEY DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. MR. MEADOWS RESPONDS WITH I GOT IT. I THINK I UNDERSTAND. LET ME WORK ON THE DEPUTY POSITION. REPRESENTATIVE PERRY THEN TEXTED, ROGER, JUST -- I SENT TO AN UPDATED FILE. WOULD YOU CALL JEFF CLARK? >> MR. DONAHUE, REPRESENTATIVE PERRY CALLED YOU THE NEXT DAY ON DECEMBER 27th. WHO TOLD HIM TO CALL YOU? >> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE PRESIDENT DID AT THE OUTSET OF THE CALL. HE WAS CALLING AT THE BEHEST OF THE PRESIDENT. >> WHAT DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT? >> ABOUT PENNSYLVANIA IN PARTICULAR. HE GAVE ME SOME BACKGROUND ABOUT WHY HE DOES NOT TRUST THE FBI AND WHY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT NECESSARILY TRUST THE FBI AND THEN HE WENT INTO SOME ALLEGATIONS SPECIFIC TO PENNSYLVANIA, WHICH INCLUDED THIS ALLEGATION THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAD CERTIFIED MORE VOTES THAN WERE ACTUALLY CAST. >> DID YOU DIRECT THEM TO INVESTIGATE THAT CLAIM? >> MR. PERRY SAID HE HAD A GREAT DEAL OF INFORMATION AND INVESTIGATIONS HAD BEEN DONE AND THERE WAS SOME SORT OF FORENSIC TYPE REPORT THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL AND I DID NOT KNOW CONGRESSMAN PERRY. I SAID, SIR, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU THINK IS RELEVANT TO WHAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MISSION IS, YOU SHOULD PRESENTED TO ME. HE DID. I WENT FROM NEW YORK TO WASHINGTON. I GOT IT AND LOOKED AT IT ON MY iPHONE. I COULD NOT READ THE WHOLE THING LIKE THAT. I LOOKED AT IT TO GET A FEEL FOR WHAT IT WAS AND THEN I FORWARDED IT TO THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY. >> WHAT DID THEY CONCLUDE? >> IT TOOK HIM A COUPLE DAYS. HE GOT BACK IN RELATIVELY SHORT ORDER. CLARK? AND WHAT DID HE SAY ABOUT HIM IF SO? >> HE DID. HE MENTIONED TO MR. CLARK. HE SAID SOMETHING TO THE FACT OF, I THINK JEFF CLARK IS GREA , AND I THINK HE IS THE KIND OF GUY THAT CAN GET IN THERE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS STUFF. AND THIS WAS COMING ON THE HEELS OF THE PRESIDENT HAVING MENTIONED MR. CLARK IN THE AFTERNOON CALL EARLIER THAT DAY. >> VICE CHAIR CHENEY. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, FOR YIELDING. AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER AT THE CENTER MR. CLARK'S PLAN TO UNDO MR. TRUMP IN ELECTION LOSS WAS A LEADER. MR. DONAHUE, ON DECEMBER 28, MR. CLARK EMAILED YOU AND MR. ROSEN, ADDRESSED A LETTER THAT HE WANTED YOU TO SIGN AND SEND TO GEORGIA STATE OFFICIALS. YOU TESTIFIED THAT THIS COULD HAVE, QUOTE, GRADE CONSTITUTIONAL CONSEQUENCES. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEANT BY THAT? >> I HAD TO READ BOTH THE EMAIL AND THE ATTACHED LETTER TRIES TO MAKE SURE I REALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE WAS PROPOSING BECAUSE IT WAS SO EXTREME TO ME. I HAD A HARD TIME GETTING MY HEAD AROUND IT INITIALLY. BUT I READ IT, AND I DID UNDERSTAND IT FOR WHAT HE INTENDED. I HAD TO SIT DOWN AND SORT OF COMPOSE WHAT I THOUGHT WAS AN APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. I ACTUALLY WENT NEXT DOOR TO THE AG'S OFFICE, BUT HE WAS NOT THERE. I KNEW WE WOULD BOTH HAVE A SIMILAR REACTION TO IT. HE WAS NOT IN HIS OFFICE. I RETURNED TO MY OFFICE AND SAT DOWN TO DRAFT A RESPONSE BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO GIVE A PROMPT RESPONSE REJECTING THIS. IN MY RESPONSE, I EXPLAINED, THIS IS NOT THE DEPARTMENT'S ROLE TO SUGGEST OR DICTATE HOW THEY SHOULD SELECT THEIR ELECTORS. THIS WAS NOT BASED ON FACT. THIS WAS ACTUALLY CONTRARY TO THE FACT AS DEVELOPED BY DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATIONS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AND MONTHS. THE RESPONSE TO THAT, AND FOR THE DEPARTMENT TO INSERT ITSELF INTO THE POLITICAL PROCESS THIS WAY I THINK WOULD HAVE HAD GRAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR THE COUNTRY. IT MAY VERY WELL HAVE SPIRALED US INTO A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE UNDERSTAND THE GRAVITY OF THE SITUATION BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SEEM TO REALLY APPRECIATE IT. >> WHAT WAS MR. CLARK'S REACTION WHEN YOU SEND THE EMAIL TO HIM? >> HE DIDN'T RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THE EMAIL, BUT WE MET SHORTLY AFTER THAT, AFTER I SENT THE EMAIL. THE ACTING AG RETURNER. I WENT TO HIS OFFICE. HE HAD JUST READ IT. HE HAD A VERY SIMILAR REACTION TO ME. HE WAS EXASPERATED AND TOLD ME HE HAD TOLD ONE OF HIS ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANCE TO GET JEFF CLARK UP HERE. WE WANT TO TALK TO HIM FACE-TO FACE ABOUT THIS. PROBABLY ABOUT 1800 THAT MIGHT IN THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL'S CONFERENCE ROOM. SMITH ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID TO MR. CLARK WAS, QUOTE, WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOTHING LESS THAN THE UNITED STATES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MEDDLING IN THE OUTCOME OF A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. I ASSUME YOU CONVEY THAT TO HIM AS WELL IN YOUR MEETING THAT EVENING? >> YES. THOSE VERY WORDS. IT WAS A VERY CONTENTIOUS MEETING. BUT YES, THAT AMONG OTHER THINGS. >> AND DESPITE THIS CONTENTIOUS MEETING AND HER STRONG REACTION TO THE LETTER, DID MR. CLARK CONTINUE TO PUSH HIS CONCEPT IN THE COMING DAYS? >> HE DID. WE HAD A SUBSEQUENT MEETING AND CONVERSATION. THE ACTING AG PROBABLY HAD MORE CONTACT WITH HIM THAT I DID BETWEEN THE 28th AND THE SEVENTH WHEN WE HAD ANOTHER IN PERSON MEETING. HE CLEARLY CONTINUED TO MOVE DOWN THIS PATH. HE BEGAN CALLING WITNESSES AND CONDUCTING INVESTIGATIONS OF HIS OWN. HE GOT A BRIEFING FROM DNI ABOUT REPORTED FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE INTERFERENCE. AND WE THOUGHT PERHAPS ONCE IT WAS EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT THERE WAS NO BASIS FOR THAT PART OF HIS CONCERN THAT HE WOULD RETREAT, BUT INSTEAD, HE DOUBLED DOWN AND SAID, WELL, OKAY, SO THERE IS NO FOR INTERFERENCE. I STILL THINK THERE ARE ENOUGH ALLEGATIONS OUT THERE THAT WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND SEND THIS LETTER, WHICH SHOCKED ME EVEN MORE THAN THE INITIAL ONE. YOU WOULD THINK AFTER A COUPLE OF DAYS OF LOOKING AT THIS THAT HE, LIKE WE, WOULD HAVE COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION. >> WE LEARNED THAT HE HAD BEEN CALLING WITNESSES AND CONDUCTING INVESTIGATIONS ON HIS OWN, DID YOU CONFRONT HIM? >> YES. >> WHAT WAS HIS REACTION? >> HE GOT VERY DEFENSIVE. AS I SAID, THERE WERE A SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS THROUGH THAT WEEK. I REMEMBER VERY SPECIFICALLY THE CONVERSATION, THE MEETING ON JANUARY 2nd. THAT GOT EVEN MORE CONFRONTATIONAL. HE WAS DEFENSIVE. AND SIMILAR TO HIS EARLIER REACTION WHEN I SAID THIS IS NOTHING LESS THAN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MEDDLING IN AN ELECTION, HUGHES WAS, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE MEDDLED IN THE ELECTION. HE KIND OF CLUNG TO THAT. SPEWED OUT SOME OF THESE THEORIES, SOME OF WHICH WE HEARD FROM THE PRESIDENT, FLOATING AROUND THE INTERNET AND MEDIA, AND JUST KEPT INSISTING THAT THE DEPARTMENT NEEDED TO ACT AND NEEDED TO SEND THOSE LETTERS. >> THE COMMITTEE HAS ALSO LEARNED THAT MR. CLARK WAS WORKING WITH ANOTHER ATTORNEY IN THE DEPARTMENT NAMED KEN. WHO DRAFTED THIS LETTER TO GEORGIA WITH MR. CLARK. HE HAD ARRIVED AT THE DEPARTMENT ON DECEMBER 15th, WHICH IS 36 DAYS LEFT UNTIL THE INAUGURATION. HE WAS SPECIFICALLY ASSIGNED TO WORK UNDER JEFF CLARK. HE ALSO WORKED WITH JOHN EASTMAN, WHO WE SHOWED YOU AT OUR HEARING LAST WEEK, WAS ONE OF THE PRIMARY ARCHITECTS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP WENT TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION. THE LETTER SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT, INCLUDING, QUOTE, THE PURPOSE OF THE SPECIAL SESSION THE DEPARTMENT RECOMMENDS WOULD BE FOR THE GENERAL'S FAMILY TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE ELECTION FAILED TO MAKE A PROPER AND VALID CHOICE BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES. THE GENERAL A SIBLING TO TAKE WHATEVER ACTION NECESSARY TO ASSURE THAT ONE OF THE LECTURES CAST ON DECEMBER 14 WOULD BE ACCEPTED BY CONGRESS ON JANUARY 6th. THE COMMITTEE ALSO LEARNED THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MR. EASTMAN AND DR. KLUKOWSKI CONTINUED AFTER HE LEFT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. WAS TAKE A LOOK AT THE EMAIL AND SEE THAT MR. KLUKOWSKI WA BRIEFED. IT INCLUDED -- THE EMAILS OF, AS STATED LAST WEEK, I BELIEVE THE VICE PRESIDENT AND HIS STAFF WOULD BENEFIT GREATLY FROM A BRIEFING BY JOHN AND KEN. AS I ALSO MENTIONED, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T OVEREXPOSE CAN GIVEN HIS NEW POSITION. THIS EMAIL SUGGESTS THAT MR. KLUKOWSKI WAS SIMULTANEOUSLY WORKING WITH JEFF LAKE CLARK TO DRAFT THE LETTER TO GEORGIA TO OVERTURN THE CERTIFIED ELECTION AND WORKING WITH DR. EASTMAN TO HELP PRESSURE THE VICE PRESIDENT TO HELP OVERTURN THE ELECTION. I WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR WITNESSES FOR BEING HERE TODAY AND FOR ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS LETTER AND OTHER ISSUES. WE ASKED MR. CLARK SOME OF THE SAME QUESTIONS WE HAVE ASKED YOU. HERE'S HOW HE ANSWERED. >> DID YOU DISCUSS THE DRAFT LETTER TO GEORGIA OFFICIALS WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES? >> THAT IS EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE. >> WHEN YOU LOOK AGAIN AT THE DRAFT LETTER, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH SAYS, THE DEPARTMENT WILL UPDATE YOU AS WE ARE ABLE ON INVESTIGATORY PROGRESS. AT THIS TIME, WE HAVE IDENTIFY SIGNIFICANT SUMS THAT MAY HAVE IMPACTED THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION IN MULTIPLE STATES, INCLUDING THE STATE OF GEORGIA. IS IT THAT, IN FACT, CONTRARY TO WHAT ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR HAD SAID ON DECEMBER 1st, 2020? >> YES. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, I YIELD BACK. SMACKED MR. CHAIRMAN, I RESERVED. PURSUANT TO THE AUDIT OF THE COMMITTEE TODAY, THE CHAIR DECLARES THE COMMITTEE IN RECESS FOR A PERIOD OF APPROXIMATELY 10 MINUTES. >> WE WILL TAKE THOSE TENANTS RIGHT NOW TO UPDATE YOU WHERE WE ARE WHILE THE HEARING COMMITTEE IS TAKING A BREAK. LET'S GIVE YOU SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE TESTIMONY WE JUST HEARD ABOUT ALLEGATIONS THEN PRESIDENT TRUMP PRESSURED THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO TAKE ACTION TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION RESULTS. FIRST, THE COMMITTEE PRESENTED A DRAFT OF A LETTER PENNED IN DECEMBER, 2020, BY FORMER DOJ LAWYER JEFF CLARK. THE DRAFT LETTER CLAIMS THAT THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATIONS HAD FOUND, QUOTE, SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS THAT MAY HAVE OUTCOME THE ELECTION IN MULTIPLE STATES, INCLUDING THE STATE OF GEORGIA. DOJ HIGHER-UPS, INCLUDING THE ACTING AG AT THE TIME, REFUSED TO SIGN THE LETTER. NEXT TODAY'S WITNESSES OUTLINED JEFF CLARK HELPING UNCOVER ELECTION FRAUD SHOULD HIM THE DOJ'S TOP SPOT AND FOR HIS LOYALTY TO TRUMP, HE SHOULD REPLACE ACTING U.S. AG JEFFREY ROSEN. FINALLY, IT WAS REVEALED THAT EVEN AFTER BILL BARR TOLD PRESIDENT TRUMP THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD ELECTION FRAUD AND RESIGNS, THE PRESIDENT CONTINUED TO PRESSURE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICIALS TO KEEP INVESTIGATING WHAT HE SAID WAS A STOLEN ELECTION, AND HE URGED THEM TO DECLARE THAT THE ELECTION WAS CORRUPT. NBC NEWS SENIOR CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT GARRETT HAIG IS JUST OUTSIDE THE HEARING ROOM. WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU FAR? >> Reporter: THE COMMITTEE HAD TO DEAL WITH A LOT OF CHARACTERS HERE WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE FAMILIAR WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING JEFF ROSEN, THE FORMER ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND JEFF CLARK, WHO THEY REALLY TRIED TO MAKE A CENTRAL FIGURE, PLAYER WHO WAS INTRODUCED TO THE PRESIDENT BY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN WILL AFTER THE ELECTION WAS OVER, AND SOME OTHER OFFICIALS WITHIN THE DOJ AND OTHER WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEYS DEEPLY UNQUALIFIED TO BE IN THE DEEP LEGAL WATERS IN WHICH HE WAS SWIMMING. SOME OF THE EXPLANATION OF CLARK AND HIS IDEAS, THE COMMITTEE DISPLAYED, THAT I THINK WE'LL STICK WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE. >> AND PAT CIPOLLONE WEIGHED IN AT ONE POINT, I REMEMBER SAYING, THE LATER THIS GUY WANTS TO SEND, THIS IS A MURDER-SUICIDE PACT. IT IS GOING TO DAMAGE EVERYONE WHO TOUCHES IT. WE SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT LETTER. I DON'T EVER SEE THAT LETTER AGAIN. SO WE WENT ALONG THOSE LINES. >> I THOUGHT JEFF'S PROPOSAL WAS NUTS. THIS GUY, THE BEST I CAN TELL, THE ONLY THING HE KNEW ABOUT ELECTIONS CHALLENGES, THEY BOTH START WITH E. >> THE LETTER, THE PROPOSAL BEING DESCRIBED IS THIS LETTER CLARK DRAFTED THAT WOULD GO FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAYING THAT DOJ, SAYING FALSELY THAT DOJ HAD FOUND SIGNIFICANT BROAD IN THOSE STATES. IT WAS THAT LETTER, THAT MOMENT THAT WE HEARD SO MANY OTHER ATTORNEYS AND HIGH-RANKING DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICIALS DESCRIBING THE SHOW ALARM TO THE MEN WHO ARE TESTIFYING TODAY. >> I'M JOINED AGAIN BY ELLIE JACKSON, A SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, AND CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR OF MEET THE PRESS. WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU SO FAR? >> Reporter: A COUPLE OF TEAMS. FIRST, THE TRUMP FACTOR. THE COMMITTEE HAS LAID OUT PRETTY CLEARLY IN AN INTERVIEW THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS TOLD THAT THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES HE WAS PUSHING WERE WRONG, WERE NOT ACCURATE, WERE NOT SUBSTANTIATED BY HIS TALK DOJ, AND YET HE PUSHED THEM TO SAY THE ELECTION WAS CORRECT. THAT'S ONE PIECE OF IT. WHAT DONALD TRUMP KNEW AND WHAT HE DID WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE. NUMBER TWO, JEFFREY CLARK WAS TOLD THAT WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO WAS ILLEGAL. YOU HEARD THAT IN THE COLORFUL TESTIMONY FROM ERIC WHO CAME ON AND SAID, WITH EXTREME SARCASM, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU JUST ADMITTED THE FIRST THING YOU WOULD DO AS ATTORNEY GENERAL WOULD BE TO COMMIT FELONY. JEFFREY CLARK WAS TOLD THAT WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO WOULD VIOLATE THE LAW AND THE POST CONSPIRACY THEORIES LACKED SUBSTANTIATION. AND THEN THERE ARE DETAILS I THINK ARE CRITICAL. WE TALKED ABOUT PAT CIPOLLONE, THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL, VERY CLEARLY CALLS HIM OUT. THEY WANT TO HEAR FROM HIM FORMALLY. THEY CONFIRMED THEY HAD SPOKEN WITH HIM HIM FORMALLY, THAT HE SAT AND DISCUSSED VARIOUS ISSUES IN AND AROUND THE WHITE HOUSE. INSTEAD, TO JEFFREY CLARK, STANDOUT, AND HE DID NOT PICK THERE WAS MORE INSIGHT AROUND THE COMMITTEE'S CONVERSATION WITH PAT CIPOLLONE AND PEOPLE CLOSE TO DONALD TRUMP AT THE LAST THING, WE WILL HEAR MORE ABOUT IT AFTER THE BREAK, MEMBERS OF THE CONGRESS. REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN SCOTT PERRY. THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY DETAIL, THE LENGTH HE WENT TO TO BRING JEFFREY CLARK INTO DONALD TRUMP'S INNER CIRCLE, TALKING, TEXTING WITH THEN CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS. >> THE LETTER, TAKEN BY ITSELF, YOU COULD READ A LOT OF WAYS. WHAT MAJOR IMPACT HAD IT GONE OUT? >> Reporter: 100%. WHAT I AM STRUCK BY, THE SOPHISTICATION, THIS WAS THEIR LAST-DITCH EFFORT, WHICH WAS TO GET STATES TO CONSIDER ALTERNATE ELECTORS SO ON JANUARY 6th THEY COULD DO WHAT MIKE PENCE WANTED TO DO. JEFFREY CLARK WRITES A LETTER IN DECEMBER, MID DECEMBER, AFTER THE ELECTORS HAVE MET AND VOTED. WE DO NOT KNOW AT THIS POINT THAT ALTERNATIVE SLATE OF ELECTORS HAVE SOMEHOW MET AND VOTED AND SUBMITTED. WHAT HAPPENED? WE NOW SEE IN THIS LETTER, WE RECOMMEND THAT YOUR GENERAL ASSEMBLY DECIDE WHICH SLATE OF ELECTORS BUT WHAT DO YOU MEAN? THERE ARE TWO SLATES OF ELECTORS? BACKTRACK THIS. THOSE ELECTORS HAD TO MEET. HERE WE ARE ON DECEMBER 28th. I REALLY THINK THE COMMITTEE IS SENDING A PICTURE OF A MORE SOPHISTICATED CONSPIRACY THAN ANY OF US A CREDIT TO. YOU HAVE THIS YOUNG LAWYER, PERHAPS HE WAS IMPRESSIONABLE FOR WHATEVER REASON, THAT WAS WORKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE, THAT CLEARLY DONALD TRUMP, SEEMED TO SORT OF GOVERN HIS OWN TEAM. HE SOMEHOW SHOWS UP IN THE DOJ TO START ASSISTING JEFFREY CLARK IN HOW TO WRITE LETTERS. SCOTT PERRY SEEMS TO MAKE THIS CONNECTION. IT'S LIKE PEOPLE, PROFESSIONALS OPERATING IN THE WHITE HOUSE LIKE CIPOLLONE, LIKE THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYING, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? EVERY TIME THEY ARE TURNING AROUND, THIS GUY CAME FROM OVER HERE. THIS ONE, AGAIN, EVERY DAY WE SEE THIS. THE BIGGEST MISTAKE THAT I THINK WE ALL HAVE MADE IN COVERING TRUMP IS ALWAYS ASSUMING A KEYSTONE COP, A PARODY, A CAPER. WHEN YOU SEE JEFFREY CLARK, THIS WAS A MORE SOPHISTICATED SCHEME. THEY IMPLEMENTED A LOT MORE OF IT. >> THE COMMITTEE FROM THE GET- GO OF THE HEARINGS HAS MADE THIS POINT. >> Reporter: WE HAVE DOTS CONNECTING. >> JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ESSENTIALLY PUT IN A LOT OF RESOURCES TO TRY TO INVESTIGATE SOME OF THESE CLAIMS. >> Reporter: WHAT'S SO STRIKING ABOUT WHAT WE JUST HEARD IS JUST HOW MUCH RESOURCES THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE PUT INTO CLAIMS OF ELECTION FRAUD. ALL THE RESOURCES. YOU HAVE ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR SAYING HE DIDN'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS COMING INTO OFFICE BECAUSE HE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, I LOOKED INTO THESE, AND THESE ARE FALSE. HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD GET HIM TO FINALLY CALM DOWN AND PUT THIS AWAY. I THINK IT WAS INTERESTING THAT JEFFREY CLARK, HE IS MEETING WITH PEOPLE, CALLING IT WITNESSES, CALLING HIS OWN INVESTIGATION. THAT IS MONEY AND RESOURCES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, SOMETHING THAT OFFICIALS CONTINUE, SUPPOSED TO BE REPRESENTING THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, NOT THE PRESIDENT. AND ALSO, PRESIDENT TRUMP WENT THROUGH SO MANY ATTORNEY GENERAL'S. THERE WAS JEFF SESSIONS WHO WE PUT OUT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION. THEN AG BARR. AFTER THE ELECTION, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SOMEBODY YOU CANNOT EVEN ARGUE WITH. HE WOULD NOT LISTEN. HE WAS LIGHTING. THERE WERE THINGS WE COULD DEBATE ABOUT AFTERWARDS. HE WAS DETACHED FROM REALITY. THEN YOU HAVE JEFFREY ROSEN. BUT JEFFREY CLARK, YOU START SEEING THE TYPE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL HE WAS LOOKING FOR HIS ENTIRE PRESIDENCY, SOMEONE WHO WAS AS OBSESSED WITH HIS LIFE IF HE WAS, SOMEONE WHO WOULD NOT PUT THIS DOWN. HE STUCK BY THE FACT THAT FINALLY, IN SOME WAYS, FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SAYING, THIS IS A KINDRED SPIRIT. THIS IS THE LEGAL OFFICER THAT I WANT TO DO MY BIDDING. ONLY FURTHERING MY OWN POLITICAL BENEFIT. I AM STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT THE HANDWRITTEN NOTE SAYS, LEAVE IT UP TO THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN. I THINK IT IS RIGHT BACK TO OUR RUSSELL BOWERS FROM ARIZONA TOLD US, WHICH IS THAT HE WAS TOLD, YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN. WHY ARE YOU PLAYING ALONG? WHY ARE YOU MORE OPEN TO OVERTURNING THE ELECTION? THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WAS SAYING, I HAVE A PARTY WILLING TO DO EVERYTHING TO MAKE SURE THAT I HANG ONTO POWER, LAWFULLY OR UNLAWFULLY. >> I CAN'T HELP WONDER, REMINDING OURSELVES, THIS IS NOT A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING. I CAN'T HELP WONDER WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IF THESE WITNESSES WERE BEING CHALLENGED. AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS IN THE LAW, DO YOU SEE THAT? WOULD IT CHANGE ANY OF THE LARGER STROKES? >> >> Reporter: THIS IS NO QUESTION IT HAS BEEN A ONE-CITED AFFAIR. IT IS LIKE A GRAND JURY PROCEEDING. THE WITNESSES, THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE NOT EVEN IN THE ROOM. BUT IF THEY WERE, THERE ISN'T A WHOLE LOT FACTUALLY TO DISPUTE UNLESS IT IS GOING TO BE WHAT WAS SAID AND WHO SAID IT. WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN IT, BY THE WAY. DONALD TRUMP, AS TO THE ARIZONA MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATURE, CAME OUT AND SAID, HEY, THAT GUY TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS FRAUD, AND HE BACKED UP MY STORY, WHICH OF COURSE, RUSTY DENIED WHEN HE GOT UNDERSTAND. SO IN A CASE LIKE THIS, YES, WE ARE HEARING ONE SIDE. BUT THE ONLY DEFENSE THAT IS REALLY SHAPING UP IS ESSENTIALLY ONE OF KNOWLEDGE, ONE OF THEM I DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER AND I PROCEEDED BASED ON THE ADVICE OF MY ATTORNEY. THAT ADVICE MAY HAVE BEEN BAD, BUT I PROCEEDED BASED ON SMART PEOPLE TELLING ME THAT I HAD A BASIS TO MOVE FORWARD. AGAIN AND AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO START SAYING THAT TRUCK'S DEFENSE IS GETTING SMALLER AND SMALLER FOR THAT KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE AT SOME POINT, THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE BECOMES WILLFUL BLINDNESS. WILLFUL BLINDNESS IS NOT AN OFFENSE. >> THAT'S INTERESTING WE HEAR SOME OF THE SAME LANGUAGE EVEN NOW. IF HE BELIEVED THIS, IF HE TRULY BELIEVED IN THE FRAUDULENT ELECTION, IS THERE ANYTHING LEGALLY? >> Reporter: TO SEE TRULY BELIEVE THAT? IN REALITY, WE NEVER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT RESIDES IN THE RECESSES. PROSECUTORS TO USE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT BUT SOMEBODY THOUGHT OR BELIEVED AT THE TIME. TIME AND TIME AGAIN, YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE TELLING TRUMP, IT'S NOT THERE. TELLING TRUMP THERE IS NO FRAUD. HEAR THE EVIDENCE. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO REFUTE THAT? BASICALLY IT'S JUST A THEORY. AFTER LISTENING TO THIS FOR MANY DAYS NOW, AND MAYBE YOU HAVE HEARD SOMETHING THAT I HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T HEARD A CONCRETE EVIDENCE THAT TRUMP EVER CITED IN HIS DISCUSSIONS THAT SAID, HERE IS A SOLID PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS ELECTION OF FRAUD. JUST LIKE WITH RAFFENSPERGER, I KNOW WE WON. I JUST KNOW IT. A CERTAIN POINT, THAT IS NOT KNOWLEDGE. THAT IS WHAT THE COMMITTEE IS TRYING TO DO, CHIP AWAY AT THE IDEA OF GOOD FAITH BELIEF THAT TRUMP MAY HAVE HAD. THE OTHER CHALLENGE THE COMMITTEE HAS IS -- AND IT IS A POPULAR WORD FROM THE MOVIE "THE GODFATHER." THE BUFFERS. YOU WILL SEE THAT JEFFREY CLARK IS ONE OF THOSE BUFFERS THAT IS GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS. HE IS NOT GOING TO COME OUT LOOKING GOOD AFTER THIS HEARING. TRUMP IS PROBABLY GOING TO CLAIM HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. >> THE HEARING HAS BEEN DABBLED IN. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. ABOUT THE TIME MR. CLARK WAS PUSHING TO SEND THE GEORGIA LETTER, THE PRESIDENT AND HIS SUPPORTERS WERE PRESSURING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO TAKE OTHER ACTIONS TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE 20 ELECTION. MR. ANGLE, CAN YOU HELP EXPLAIN YOUR ROLE? MAKE SURE. >> ONE OF THE RESPONSIBILITIES IS TO PROVIDE LEGAL ADVICE TO THE PRESIDENT AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. IS PRACTICAL MANNER, THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL EXERCISES THAT JOB ON A DAY-TO DAY BASIS. IN ADDITION, IT OFTEN FACTIONS OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, OFTEN THE CHIEF LEGAL ADVISER TO THE AG AS WELL IS THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH MORE BROADLY. >> GIVEN THAT ROLE, CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRESIDENT? >> WELL, IN CONNECTION WITH MY ROLE AT LLC OVER THE COURSE OF MY TENURE THERE, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF INSTANCES IN WHICH FOLKS AT THE WHITE HOUSE WOULD BRING ME IN TO PROVIDE LEGAL ADVICE TO THE PRESIDENT. SOMETIMES DISCUSSING LEGAL OPTIONS THAT COULD BE PURSUED TO REACH VARIOUS POLICY OBJECTIVES. SOMETIMES THE COURSE OF ACTION THEY HAD BEEN ASKING FOR WAS NOT AVAILABLE. >> THE FIRST IS REFLECTED IN THIS EMAIL WE ARE GOING TO PUT ON THE SCREEN. THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO DRAFT A LAWSUIT TO BE FILED BY THE DEPARTMENT AND THE SUPREME COURT . HE WANTED YOU, MR. ROSEN, AND MR. CIPOLLONE SPECIFICALLY TO REVIEW IT. YOU IN THE DEPARTMENT OPPOSED FILING IT. WE SEE ON THE SCREEN HERE THE TALKING POINTS THAT YOU ACTUALLY DRAFTED ON THAT. YOU STATED THAT THERE ISN'T A LEGAL BASIS DURING THE LAWSUIT. ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE SIMPLE HE DOESN'T KNOW THE LAW, MUCH LESS THE SUPREME COURT. WHY WAS THIS IN THE DEPARTMENT'S POSITION? >> THE MEMO SORT OF SPEAKS TO THIS. ESSENTIALLY, THIS WAS A DRAFT LAWSUIT THAT APPARENTLY WAS PREPARED BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE DEPARTMENT. IT WOULD BE STYLED AS BROUGHT BY THE UNITED STATES. THE JURISDICTIONAL MATTER IN THE SUPREME COURT. IT WAS A MERITLESS LAWSUIT. IT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE DEPARTMENT WOULD OR COULD BRING. SOMEBODY PREPARED IT AND HANDED IT TO THE PRESIDENT, AND HE FORWARDED IT ON FOR OUR REVIEW. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, AS MR. DONOGHUE SAID EARLIER, I DON'T HAVE ANY STANDING TO BRING SUCH A LAWSUIT. THE LOSS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN UNTIMELY. THE STATES CHOSE THEIR LECTURES. THE ELECTORS HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED. THEY HAD BEEN SENT TO WASHINGTON, D.C. NEITHER GEORGIA NOR ANY OF THE OTHER STATES ON DECEMBER 28th WAS IN A POSITION TO CHANGE THE VOTES. THE ELECTION HAD HAPPENED. THE ONLY THING THAT HADN'T HAPPENED WAS THE FINAL COUNTING OF THE VOTES. THE PERSON WHO DRAFTED THIS LAWSUIT DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND, IN MY VIEW, THE LAW AND/OR HOW THE SUPREME COURT WORKS FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. IT WAS JUST NOT SOMETHING WE WERE GOING TO DO. THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL ASKED ME TO DRAFT A MEMO WITH TALKING POINTS THAT HE COULD EXPLAIN. >> WOULD YOU SAY IT WAS AN UNUSUAL REQUEST? >> THAT THE DEPARTMENT DRAFT LAWSUIT DRAFTED BY OUTSIDE LAWYERS IS CERTAINLY AN UNUSUAL REQUEST. >> IN MID-DECEMBER, DID THE WHITE HOUSE ASK ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR TO CONSIDER WHETHER A SPECIAL COUNSEL COULD BE APPOINTED TO LOOK INTO ELECTION FRAUD ISSUES? >> YES. I THINK THE PRESIDENT WAS PROBABLY VOCAL AT THE TIME THAT HE BELIEVED THAT SPECIAL COUNSEL WAS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED TO LOOK INTO ELECTION FRAUD. THERE IS A SPECIFIC REQUEST WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE MIDDLE OF DECEMBER. >> WHAT WAS YOUR CONCLUSION? >> THIS REQUEST WAS WHETHER THE ATTORNEY GENERAL COULD APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL, A STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL, TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION. AS A LEGAL MATTER, UNDER FEDERAL LAW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS FAIRLY WIDE DISCRETION TO DELEGATE PROSECUTORIAL AUTHORITY, INCLUDING TWO STATE PROSECUTORS, WHO HAPPEN TO ASSIST THE DEPARTMENT, AND NOT UNCOMMONLY. THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL EXERCISING' TORI AUTHORITY WOULD BE UNCOMMON. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ISSUE, BUT WE SAW WAS THAT THE STATE LAW, THE STATE OF LOUISIANA, THE STATE PRECLUDED THE LOUISIANA ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM ACCEPTING A POSITION, THE OFFICIAL POSITION ON BEHALF OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT WAS NOT LEGALLY AVAILABLE. >> DURING HER TIME AT THE DEPARTMENT, WHETHER EVER ANY BASIS TO APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL'S COUNSEL TO INVEST? >> THEY DID APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL. YOU WOULD APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL WHEN THE DEPARTMENT, WHEN THERE IS A BASIS FOR AN INVESTIGATION AND THE DEPARTMENT SIMPLY HAD A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET SOMEONE INDEPENDENT OUTSIDE THE PERMIT TO HANDLE SUCH AN INVESTIGATION. NEITHER ATTORNEY GENERAL BAR OR ATTORNEY GENERAL ROSEN BELIEVE THAT WAS NECESSARY. ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR HAD ALREADY TOLD THE PRESIDENT THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THE SPECIAL COUNSEL. HE STATED THAT PUBLICLY. WE WILL SEE THAT IN A VIDEO FROM DECEMBER 21st. >> TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION, I THINK THAT IT IS BEING HANDLED RESPONSIBLY AND PROFESSIONALLY CURRENTLY WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT. AND TO THIS POINT, I HAVE NOT THE REASON TO APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL. I HAVE NO PLAN TO DO SO BEFORE I LEAVE. >> DECEMBER 21st WAS THE SAME DAY PRESIDENT TRUMP MET WITH REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE WHITE HOUSE TO STRATEGIZE ABOUT HOW TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION WHILE HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL IS OUT TELLING THE PUBLIC, AGAIN, THAT THERE WAS NO WIDESPREAD EVIDENCE OF ELECTION FRAUD. AND YET, TWO DAYS LATER, WE HAVE PRESIDENT TRUMP TWEETING, AGAIN PUBLICLY PRESSURING THE DEPARTMENT TO APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL. HE SAID, QUOTE, AFTER SEEING THE MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD IN THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, I DISAGREE WITH ANYONE WHO THINKS A STRONG, FAST, AND A FAIR SPECIAL COUNSEL IS NOT NEEDED IMMEDIATELY. THIS WAS THE MOST CORRUPT ELECTION IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, AND IT MUST BE, QUOTE, RE-EXAMINES. THE SELECT COMMITTEE'S INVESTIGATION REVEALED THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WENT AS FAR AS TO PROMISE THE JOB OF SPECIAL COUNSEL TO NOW DISCREDITED FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWYER CINDY POWELL IN A LATE-NIGHT MEETING ON DECEMBER 18th. >> ON FRIDAY HE HAD ASKED ME TO BE SPECIAL COUNSEL TO ADDRESS THE ELECTION ISSUES. AND TO COLLECT EVIDENCE, AND HE WAS EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED WITH THE LACK OF, I WOULD CALL IT, LAW ENFORCEMENT BY ANY OF THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO ACT TO PROTECT THE RULE OF LAW AND OUR REPUBLIC. >> WHAT WHAT IS SPECIAL COUNSEL DO WITH ONLY DAYS TO GO UNTIL ELECTION CERTIFICATION? IT WASN'T TO INVESTIGATE ANYTHING. THE INVESTIGATION, LED BY A SPECIAL COUNSEL, WOULD JUST CREATE AN ILLUSION OF LEGITIMACY AND PROVIDE FAKE COVERAGE FOR THOSE WHO WOULD WANT TO OBJECT, INCLUDING THOSE WHO STORMED THE CAPITAL ON JANUARY 6th. ALLAH PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PLANS FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WERE BEING REBUFFED BY MR. ROSEN, MR. DONAHUE, MR. ENGEL, AND OTHERS. THE PRESIDENT BECAME DESPERATE, ENTERING INTO THE NEW YEAR WITH JANUARY 6th FAST APPROACHING. PRESIDENT TRUMP REST BACK FROM MAR-A-LAGO ON DECEMBER 31st AND CALLED AN EMERGENCY MEETING. HERE IS MR. DONOGHUE. >> THE PRESIDENT WAS A LITTLE MORE AGITATED THAN HE HAD BEEN IN THE MEETING ON THE 15th. HE DISCUSSED A VARIETY OF ELECTION MATTERS. HE DID SAY THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE KIND OF THING THAT WOULD WANT APPOINTMENT OF A SPECIAL COUNSEL. THERE WAS A POINT AT WHICH THE PRESIDENT SAID SOMETHING ABOUT WHY DON'T YOU GUYS THESE MACHINES? >> MR. ROSEN, THE PRESIDENT ASKED YOU TO SEIZE VOTING MACHINES FROM STATE GOVERNMENTS. WHAT WAS YOUR RESPONSE? >> WE HAD SEEN NOTHING IMPROPER WITH REGARD TO THE VOTING MACHINES. I TOLD THEM THAT THE REAL EXPERTS HAD BEEN AT DHS, AND THEY HAD BRIEFED US THAT THEY HAD LOOKED AT IT AND THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE VOTING MACHINES. THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS APPROPRIATE TO DO. >> THERE WOULD BE NO FACTUAL BASIS TO THESE MACHINES? >> CAN YOU TELL WHAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DID? MAKE THE PRESIDENT WAS AGITATED BY THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL'S RESPONSE. TO THE EXTENT THAT THE MACHINES AND TECHNOLOGY WAS BEING DISCUSSED, THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID THAT THE DHS, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, HAD THE EXPERTISE IN MACHINES AND CERTIFYING THEM AND MAKING SURE THE STATES WERE OPERATING THEM PROPERLY. SINCE DHS HAD BEEN MENTIONED, THE PRESIDENT YELLED OUT TO HIS SECRETARY AGAIN GEIT WAS OKEN PHONE. HE WAS NUMBER TWO AT THE DHS OF A TIME. I WAS ON SPEAKER PHONE. HE ESSENTIALLY SAID, I WAS SITTING HERE WITH THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL. HE TOLD ME IT IS YOUR JOB TO SEIZE THE MACHINES, AND YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB. >> MR. ROSA, DID YOU EVER TELL THE PRESIDENT THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY COULD SEIZE VOTING MACHINES? >> NO, CERTAINLY NOT. >> MR. DONAHUE BECAUSE YOU WERE DECLARING THERE WAS ELECTION DI FRAUD?THE PRESIDENT SAY HE WOULD REMOVE YOU AND MR. ROSEN BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ELECTION FRAUD? >> TOWARD THE END OF THE MEETING, AGAIN, THE PRESIDENT, HE WAS GETTING PRETTY AGITATED, SAID PEOPLE TELL ME I SHOULD GET RID OF BOTH OF YOU. I SHOULD JUST REMOVE YOU AND MAKE A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP, PUT JEFF CLARK IN. MAYBE SOMETHING WILL FINALLY GET DONE. I RESPONDED AS I THINK HAD EARLIER IN DECEMBER, MR. PRESIDENT, YOU SHOULD HAVE A LEADERSHIP THAT YOU WANT, BUT UNDERSTAND, THE UNITED STATES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FUNCTIONS ON THAT, EVIDENCE, AND LAW, AND IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. YOU CAN HAVE WHATEVER LEADERSHIP YOU WANT, BUT THE DEPARTMENT'S DECISION IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. >> THE PRESIDENT OF THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL, PAT CIPOLLONE, WAS ALSO PRESENT. YOU REMEMBER WHAT HIS POSITION WAS? BUT PAT WAS VERY SUPPORTIVE. HE WAS VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. HE WAS CONSISTENT. I THINK HE HAD AN IMPOSSIBLE JOB AT THAT POINT, BUT HE DID IT WELL. HE ALWAYS SIDED WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. >> PRESIDENT TRUMP, TALKING ABOUT SEIZING VOTING MACHINES AND MAKING THE SAME DEMANDS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SHUT DOWN BY FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR ON AT LEAST THREE OCCASIONS AND BY MR. ROSEN AND MR. DONOGHUE ON OTHER OCCASIONS, CLAIMED KNOCKS DOWN, BUT THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T CARE. THE NEXT DAY, CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS SEND A FLURRY OF EMAILS TO YOU, MR. ROSEN, ASKING THAT THE APARTMENT LOOK INTO A NEW SET OF ALLEGATIONS. WE ARE GOING TO PUT THOSE EMAILS HERE ON THE SCREEN. HERE WE SEE THREE REQUESTS MADE ON JANUARY 1st. ONE EMAIL'S REQUEST FROM MR. MEADOWS TO GO, MR. ROSEN, TWO CENTS JEFF CLARK TO FULTON COUNTY. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THIS REQUEST? >> REALLY NOTHING. CERTAINLY DIDN'T SEND MR. CLARK TO FULTON COUNTY. BUT THAT EMAIL WAS THE FIRST COLLABORATION I HAD SEEN OF -- MR. CLARK AND TOBY AT THAT POINT THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS CONSIDERING MAKING THE CHANGE BY MONDAY, JANUARY 4th. SO MR. MEADOWS' EMAIL WAS SOMETHING OF A CORROBORATION THAT THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS GOING ON I HAD NOT BEEN INFORMED ABOUT BY MR. CLARK OR ANYBODY ELSE. >> THE SECOND REQUEST, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE LAWYERS INVESTIGATED EVALUATIONS OF FRAUD RELATED TO NEW MEXICO. MR. ROSEN, DID YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THESE EMAILS? >> YES. REALLY COOL CONCERNS ABOUT THAT ONE. ONE WAS THAT IT WAS COMING FROM A CAMPAIGN OR POLITICAL PARTY AND WAS REALLY NOT OUR LAW TO FUNCTION AS AN ARM OF ANY CAMPAIGN FOR ANY PARTY OR ANY CAMPAIGN. THAT WASN'T OUR ROLE. THAT'S PART OF WHY I WAS WILLING TO MEET WITH MR. GIULIANI OR THE CAMPAIGN PEOPLE BEFORE. THE OTHER PART WAS, IT WAS ANOTHER ONE OF THESE ONES WHERE LOTS OF WORK HAD ALREADY BEEN DONE. I THOUGHT IT WAS A REHASH OF THINGS THAT HAD BEEN DEBUNKED PREVIOUSLY. >> THE FINAL EMAIL CONCLUDED A BASELESS CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT AN ITALIAN DEFENSE CONTRACTOR UPLOADED TO A SATELLITE THAT SWITCHED BOATS FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN. THE WILD, BASELESS CONSPIRACY THEORY MADE IT FROM THE RECESSES OF THE INTERNET TO THE HIGHEST ECHELON OF OUR GOVERNMENT. ON DECEMBER 31st, MR. MEADOWS RECEIVED THIS INTERNET CONSPIRACY THEORY FROM REPRESENTATIVE PERRY. ON THE SCREEN NOW IS THE TEXT THAT MR. PERRY SENT TO, WITH A YOUTUBE LINK THING, QUOTE, WHY CAN'T WE WORK WITH THE ITALIAN GOVERNMENT? THE NEXT DAY, THE PRESIDENT'S CHIEF OF STAFF SENT THE YOUTUBE LINK TO MR. ROSEN, WHO FORWARDED IT TO MR. DONOGHUE. MR. DONOGHUE, DID YOU WATCH THIS VIDEO? >> I DID. >> HOW LONG WAS THE VIDEO? >> APPROXIMATELY 20 MINUTES. >> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT AN EXCERPT OF THE VIDEO. >> OUT OF ITALY. THIS IS DONE IN THE WAS MISSING. THERE WAS A CERTAIN STATE DEPARTMENT GUY, WHOSE NAME I DON'T KNOW YET. I GUESS IT WILL COME OUT IN ITALY AT SOME POINT. HE WAS THE MASTERMIND -- NOT THE MASTERMIND, AT ANY RATE, THE GUY RUNNING THE OPERATION OF CHANGING THE VOTES IN THAT HE WAS DOING THIS IN CONJUNCTION WITH SUPPORT FROM MI SIX, THE CIA, AND THIS LEONARDO GROUP. >> MR. DONOGHUE, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU WATCHED THAT ENTIRE VIDEO? >> I EMAILED THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND I SAID MY IMPRESSION OF THE VIDEO, WHICH WAS PATENTLY ABSURD. >> MR. ROSEN, YOU ARE ASKED BY MR. MEADOWS TO MEET WITH MR. JOHNSON, WHO WAS THE PERSON IN THAT VIDEO. WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION? >> SO ORDINARILY, I GET AN EMAIL LIKE THIS AND THERE WAS NO PHONE CALL. IT JUST CAME OVER THE TRANSOM. HE CALLED ME, MR. MEADOWS, AND ASKED ME TO MEET WITH MR. JOHNSON, AND I TOLD THEM, THIS WHOLE THING ABOUT ITALY HAD BEEN DEBUNKED AND THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF THAT. I CERTAINLY WASN'T GOING TO MEET WITH THIS PERSON. HE INITIALLY SEEMED TO ACCEPT THAT. HE SAID, BY WHAT YOU MEET WITH HIM? I SAID, BECAUSE HE HAS REAL EVIDENCE, WHICH THE VIDEO DOESN'T SHOW, HE CAN WALK INTO AN FBI FIELD OFFICE ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. THERE ARE 55 OF THEM. HE SAID OKAY. THEN HE CALLED ME BACK A FEW MINUTES LATER AND COMPLAINED AND SAID, I DIDN'T TELL YOU, BUT THIS FELLOW, JOHNSON, IS WORKING WITH RUDY GIULIANI, AND MR. GIULIANI IS REALLY OFFENDED THAT YOU THINK THEY HAVE TO GO TO AN FBI FIELD OFFICE. THAT IS INSULTING. COULD YOU JUST HAVE THE FBI OR YOU MEET WITH THESE GUYS? BY THEN I WAS SOMEWHAT AGITATED AND TOLD THEM THAT THERE WAS NO WAY ON EARTH THAT I WAS GOING TO DO THAT. I WASN'T GOING TO MEET WITH MR. JOHNSON. I WAS CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO MEET WITH MR. GIULIANI. I MADE THAT CLEAR REPEATEDLY AND SAID, THAT IS THE END OF THAT. DON'T RAISE THAT WITH ME AGAIN. AND BECAUSE MR. DONOGHUE AND I HAVE BEEN EXCHANGING OUR VIEWS ABOUT THIS, IT WAS 7:13 ON FRIDAY NIGHT OF NEW YEAR'S DAY, I DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF PATIENCE. I SEND THE EMAIL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RANE PRETTY CLEAR THAT I HAD NO INTEREST IN DOING ANYTHING FURTHER WITH THIS. >> DID YOU RECEIVE A FOLLOW-UP CALL FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OFFICIAL ABOUT THIS CONSPIRACY? >> I DID. I BELIEVE IT WAS THAT SAME DAY. >> CAN YOU GIVE DETAILS ON THAT AT ALL? >> I RECEIVED A TELEPHONE CALL FROM CACHE PATEL, THE DOD OFFICIAL AT THAT TIME. ACTING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE MILLER. HE DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT IT. HE BASICALLY SAID, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS ITALY THING AND WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT? AND I INFORMED HIM THAT CHIEF OF STAFF HAD RAISED THE ISSUE OF US IN HIS OFFICE ON DECEMBER 29th, THAT WE LOOKED INTO IT A LITTLE BIT. WE HAD THE NAME THAT WAS PROVIDED TO US BY THE CHIEF OF STAFF. I HAD LEARNED THAT THAT INDIVIDUAL WAS IN CUSTODY IN ITALY. HE HAD BEEN ARRESTED FOR A CYBER OFFENSE OF SOME SORT IN ITALY. THE ALLEGATION WAS THAT HE HAD BEEN EXCELLENT TRADING DATA FROM HIS COMPANY. HE WAS EITHER AN EMPLOYEE OR CONTRACTOR OF THE COMPANY, AND HE WAS IN CUSTODY. THE WHOLE THING WAS VERY MURKY AT BEST. THE VIDEO WAS ABSURD. BUT THAT WE AT THE DEPARTMENT WOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. THE DOD SHOULD MAKE UP ITS OWN MIND AS TO WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO. I MADE IT CLEAR TO HIM THAT I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS ANYTHING WORTH PURSUING. >> YOU CALL THE VIDEO ABSURD, AND DESPITE THE ABSURDITY OF THAT CONSPIRACY THEORY, WE LEARNED THAT MR. MEADOWS DISCUSSED IT CONSISTENTLY. MR. MEADOWS DIDN'T LET THE MATTER GO. THE REQUEST WENT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, CHRISTOPHER MILLER. YOU WILL HEAR SECRETARY MILLER ACTUALLY REACHED OUT TO A HIGH RANKING OFFICIAL BASED IN ITALY TO FOLLOW-UP ON THIS CLAIM. >> CAN YOU CALL OUT THE DEFENSE ATTACHI■AND FIND OUT WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON? WE ARE GETTING THESE CRAZY REPORTS. PROBABLY THE GUY ON THE GROUND MORE THAN ANYTHING. >> CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT A CALL WAS ACTUALLY PLACED BY SECRETARY MILLER TO THE FSA IN ITALY TO INVESTIGATE THE CLAIM THAT ITALIAN SATELLITES WERE SWITCHING VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN? THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF THE LENGTHS TO WHICH PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD GO TO STAY IN POWER. SCOURING THE INTERNET TO SUPPORT HIS CONSPIRACY THEORIES SHOWN HERE AS HE TOLD MR. DONOGHUE IN THE DECEMBER 27th CALL, QUOTE, YOU GUYS MAY NOT BE FOLLOWING THE INTERNET THE WAY I DO. PRESIDENT TRUMP'S EFFORTS TO THIS POINT HAD FAILED , STONEWALLED BY MR. ROSEN AND MR. DONOGHUE, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD ONLY ONE AUCTION. YOU NEED TO MAKE CLARK ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL. MR. ROSEN DURING A JANUARY 2nd MEETING WITH MR. CLARK, DID YOU CONFRONT HIM AGAIN ABOUT HIS CONTACT WITH THE PRESIDENT? AND IF SO, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT? >> SO AT THIS POINT, MR. CLARK HAD TOLD US THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD ASKED HIM TO CONSIDER WHETHER HE WOULD BE WILLING TO REPLACE ME SUPPOSEDLY ON A TIMETABLE BY MONDAY, THE 4th. I HAD TOLD MR. CLARK I THOUGHT HE WAS MAKING A COLOSSAL ERROR IN JUDGMENT, BUT I ALSO HOPES TO PERSUADE HIM TO BE MORE RATIONAL INTO UNDERSTOOD WHAT WE HAD UNDERSTOOD, THAT THERE WAS NOT A FACTUAL BASIS FOR THE ASSERTIONS BEING MADE. AT THIS MEETING, MR. DONOGHUE AND I MET WITH MR. CLARK, AND I GUESS MY HOPES WERE DISAPPOINTED IN THAT MR. CLARK CONTINUED TO EXPRESS THE VIEW THAT HE THOUGHT THERE WAS FRAU , EVEN THOUGH HE HAD NOT BEEN A PARTICIPANT IN THE DEPARTMENT AS A REVIEW OF THAT, AND THAT HE WAS DISSATISFIED THAT WE KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING, BUT HE HAD ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE HAD HAD FURTHER, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS A MEETING OR PHONE CALLS OR WHAT, BUT FURTHER DISCUSSION WITH THE PRESIDENT DESPITE HAVING A WEEK EARLIER THING HE WOULDN'T DO THAT, AND IF HE DID, IF YOU GOT IT INVITATION TO DO THAT, HE WOULD LET RICH DONOGHUE OR ME KNOW. IT WAS A CONTENTIOUS MEETING WHERE WE WERE CHASTISING HIM THAT HE WAS INSUBORDINATE, HE WAS OUT OF LINE. HE RAISED, AGAIN, THAT HE THOUGHT THAT LETTER SHOULD GO OUT AND WE WERE NOT RECEPTIVE TO THAT. >> DID HE TELL YOU THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD OFFERED HIM THE JOB OF ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL? >> THAT WAS A DAY LATER. ON THE 2nd, HE SAID THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD ASKED HIM TO LET HIM KNOW IF HE WOULD BE WILLING TO TAKE IT. SUBSEQUENTLY, HE TOLD ME, SUNDAY THE THIRD BANK, HE TOLD ME THE TIMELINE HAD MOVED UP AND THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD OFFERED HIM THE JOB AND THAT HE WAS ACCEPTING IT. >> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THAT? >> WELL, ON THE ONE HAND, I WASN'T GOING TO ACCEPT BEING FIRED BY MY SUBORDINATE. I WANTED TO TALK TO THE PRESIDENT DIRECTLY. WITH REGARD TO THE REASON FOR THAT, I WANTED TO TRY TO CONVINCE THE PRESIDENT NOT TO GO DOWN THE WRONG PATH THAT MR. CLARK SEEMED TO BE ADVOCATING. IT WASN'T ABOUT ME. THERE WERE ONLY 17 DAYS LEFT IN THE ADMINISTRATION AT THAT POINT. I WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY CONTENT TO HAVE EITHER THE GENTLEMAN TO MY LEFT OR RIGHT REPLACE ME IF ANYBODY WANTED TO DO THAT, BUT I DID NOT WANT FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO BE PUT IN A POSTURE WHERE IT WOULD BE DOING THINGS THAT WERE NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE TRUTH, THE CONSTITU ION. DID SO I DID FOUR THINGS FOUR THINGS AS SOON AS MR. CLARK LEFT MY OFFICE ON THAT SUNDAY, THE 3rd. NUMBER ONE, I CALLED MARK MEADOWS AND SAID, I NEED TO SEE THE PRESIDENT RIGHT AWAY. HE WAS AGREEABLE AND SET UP A MEETING FOR 6:15 THAT SUNDAY. SO ABOUT TWO HOURS AWAY. THEN I CALLED PAT CIPOLLONE, THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL, TOLD HIM WHAT WAS GOING ON. HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO THE WHITE HOUSE TO MAKE SURE HE WAS AT THE MEETING AND HE WOULD BE SUPPORTING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S POSITION, AS HE HAD BEEN DOING CONSISTENTLY. THREE, I CALLED STEVEN ENGEL. I WAS AT THE DEPARTMENT ON SUNDAY BECAUSE I NEEDED TO BE THERE. MR. ENGEL I CALLED AT HOME AND ASKED IF HE WOULD COME IN AND GO TO THE MEETING. THAT PROVED TO BE QUITE HELPFUL. IN THE NUMBER FOUR, I ASKED RICH DONOGHUE AND PAT, WHO HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN MY CHIEF OF STAFF, TO GET THE DEPARTMENT'S SENIOR LEADERSHIP ON A CALL AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON. WHICH THEY DID. AND THEN ERIC HIRSCHMAN CALLED ME TO TELL ME THAT HE WAS GOING TO GO TO THE MEETING AND THAT HE WOULD BE SUPPORTING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE POSITION AS WELL. SO I KNEW THAT THE MEETING WAS ON COURSE AND THAT I WOULD HAVE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SUPPORTIVE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE'S APPROACH AND NOT SUPPORTIVE OF MR. CLARK'S APPROACH. EXPECTED MR. PARK ASK YOU TO CONTINUE TO STAY AT THE DEPARTMENT? >> AT THAT SUNDAY MEETING WHEN HE TOLD ME HE WOULD BE REPLACING ME, HE SAID HE ASKED TO SEE ME ALONE, BECAUSE WE HAD USUALLY MET WITH ME AND MR. DONOGHUE, BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IN LIGHT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO AT LEAST OFFER THAT I CAN STAY ON AS HIS DEPUTY. I THOUGHT THAT WAS PREPOSTEROUS. I TOLD HIM THAT WAS NONSENSICAL AND THAT THERE'S NO UNIVERSE WHERE I WAS GOING TO DO THAT, TO STAY ON AND SUPPORT SOMEONE ELSE DOING THINGS THAT WERE NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT I THOUGHT SHOULD BE DONE. SO I DIDN'T ACCEPT THAT OFFER, I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY. SMACKED HER THAT MEETING, DID MR. CLARK ASK YOU TO SIGN THE GEORGIA LETTER? >> THAT WAS ON THE SATURDAY MEETING, JANUARY 2nd. MR. DONOGHUE AND I HAD WITH HIM, HE AGAIN RACED WITH BOTH OF US THAT HE WANTED US, HE WANTED US BOTH TO SIGN THE LETTER ACTUALLY. >> IN THAT MEETING, DID MR. CLARK SAY HE WOULD TURN DOWN THE PRESIDENT'S OFFER IF YOU REVERSED YOUR POSITION AND SIGNED LETTER? >> YES. >> DID MR. CLARK, SO YOU STILL REFUSED TO SIGN, I TAKE IT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK MR. DONOGHUE AND I WERE BOTH VERY CONSISTENT THAT THERE WAS NO WAY WE WERE GOING TO SIGN THAT LETTER. IT DIDN'T MATTER WHAT MR. CLAR 'S PROPOSITION WAS IN TERMS OF HIS OWN ACTIVITIES. WE WERE NOT GOING TO SIGN THAT LETTER AS LONG AS WE WERE IN CHARGE OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT, BY THE WAY. RICHARD DONOGHUE, WERE YOU EXPECTING TO HAVE TO ATTEND THE MEETING AT THE WHITE HOUSE ON SUNDAY, JANUARY 3rd? >> NO. AS THE ACTING AG INDICATED, WE HAD A MEETING THAT AFTERNOON THAT RELATED TO PREPARATIONS FOR JANUARY 6th. I WAS AT THE DEPARTMENT, BUT I HAD NO EXPECTATION OF LEADING THE DEPARTMENT. IT WAS SUNDAY AFTERNOON, AND I WAS THERE IN CIVILIAN CLOTHES. I EXPECTED TO THAT MEETING AND DO SOME OTHER WORK, BUT I HAD NO EXPECTATIONS OF GOING TO THE WHITE HOUSE THE DAY. >> PRIOR TO THAT OVAL OFFICE MEETING, DID YOU SET UP A CONFERENCE CALL WITH SENIOR LEADERSHIP AT THE DEPARTMENT? AND IF SO, TELL US ABOUT A CALL. >> YES. SO, OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS A BIT OF A SCRAMBLE THAT AFTERNOON TO PREPARE FOR THE OVAL OFFICE MEETING. WE HAD DISCUSSED ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL AND I, WHETHER WE SHOULD EXPAND THE CIRCLE OF PEOPLE WHO KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON. IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT STEVE ENGEL NO . THAT IS WHY I REACHED OUT TO STEVE. IF MR. ROSEN WAS REMOVED FROM THE SEAT IN THE PRESIDENT DID NOT IMMEDIATELY APPOINT SOMEONE ELSE TO ACT AS ATTORNEY GENERAL, THE CHINA SUCCESSION, MR. ENGEL WOULD BE IN THE SEA. WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON. WE ALSO BROUGHT -- IN. NO ONE ELSE, ASIDE FROM JEFF CLARK, KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON UNTIL LATE SUNDAY AFTERNOON. WE CHOSE TO KEEP A CLOSE HOLD BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO CREATE CONCERN OR PANIC IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LEADERSHIP. BUT AT THIS POINT, I ASKED THE ACTING AG, WHAT ELSE CAN I DO TO PREPARE FOR THIS MEETING AT THE OVAL OFFICE? HE SAID, YOU AND PAT TO GET THE AG'S ON THE PHONE AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? FIND OUT WHAT THEY MAY DO IF THERE IS A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP BECAUSE THAT WILL HELP INFORM THE CONVERSATION OF THE OVAL OFFICE. HE SUBSEQUENTLY SET UP THE MEETING. WE GOT MOST OF THE AGS ON THE PHONE AND QUICKLY EXPLAINED THE SITUATION. I TOLD HIM, I DON'T NEED AN ANSWER FROM YOU RIGHT NOW. I DON'T NEED AN ANSWER ON THIS PHONE CALL. BUT IF YOU HAVE AN ANSWER, I NEED IT IN THE NEXT FEW MINUTES. CALL ME, EMAIL ME, TEXT ME, WHATEVER IT IS IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF JEFF CLARK IS PUT IN CHARGE OF THE DEPARTMEN . AND IMMEDIATELY, THE AAG OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION SAID, I DON'T NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT. THERE'S NO WAY I'M SAYING. THE OTHER AAG'S BEGAN TO CHIME IN. THEY ALL ESSENTIALLY SAID THEY WOULD LEAVE, THEY WOULRESIGN IF THE PRESIDENT MADE THAT CHANGE IN THE DEPARTMENT LEADERSHIP. >> INCREDIBLE. I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERALS ON THE SCREEN, IF WE CAN PULL THAT UP, HAVE THEIR PICTURES. DELIVERY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL YOU SPOKE TO AGREE TO RESIGN? >> NATHAN WAS NOT ON THE CALL ONLY BECAUSE WE HAD SOME DIFFICULTY REACHING HIM. BUT YES, THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE SCREEN, ON THE CALL, AND ALL WITHOUT HESITATION SAID THEY WOULD RESIGN. >> AS PART OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE OF THE INVESTIGATION, WE FOUND OUT THAT MS. ROSEN, MR. DONOGHUE, AND MR. ENGEL WERE PREPARING FOR THE MEETING, JEFF CLARK AND THE RESIDENT WERE IN CONSTANT COMMUNICATION BEGINNING AT 7:00 A.M. WHITE HOUSE CALL LOGS OBTAINED BY THE COMMITTEE SHOW THAT BY 4:19 P.M. ON JANUARY 3rd, THE WHITE HOUSE HAD ALREADY BEGUN REFERRING TO MR. CLARK AS THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL. AS FAR AS THE WHITE HOUSE WAS CONCERNED, MR. CLARK WAS ALREADY AT THE TOP OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. TWO HOURS LATER, DOJ LEADERSHIP ARRIVED AT THE WHITE HOUSE. THE SELECT COMMITTEE INTERVIEWED EVERY PERSON WHO WAS INSIDE THE ROOM DURING THIS SUNDAY EVENING OVAL OFFICE MEETING. MR. CIPOLLONE TOLD THE COMMITTEE THAT HE WAS, QUOTE, UNMISTAKABLY ANGRY DURING THE MEETING AND THAT HE ALONG WITH ERIC HIRSCHMAN AND MR. DONOGHUE , QUOTE, FORCEFULLY CHALLENGED MR. CLARK TO PRODUCE EVIDENCE OF HIS ELECTION FRAUD THEORIES. MR. ROSEN, CAN YOU DESCRIBE HOW THAT MEETING STARTED? >> YES. AFTER SOME PRELIMINARY -- SO MR. MEADOWS HAD PRESSURED IS ALL , AND THEN HE LEFT. SO MR. CIPOLLONE THIS IMAGE OF ACTIONS. AFTER SOME PRELIMINARY, THE PRESIDENT TURNS TO ME AND HE SAID, WELL, ONE THING WE KNOW IS THAT YOU, ROSEN, YOU AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING. YOU DON'T EVEN AGREE WITH THE CLAIMS ELECTION FRAUD. AND THIS OTHER GUY AT LEAST MY DO SOMETHING. AND THEN I SAID, MR. PRESIDENT, YOU ARE RIGHT. I AM NOT GOING TO ALLOW THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO DO ANYTHING TO TRY TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION. THAT'S TRUE. BUT THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE FACTS AND THE LAW. THAT'S WHAT'S REQUIRED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. SO THAT THE RIGHT ANSWER, AND A GOOD THING FOR THE COUNTRY, AND THEREFORE, I SUBMIT IT'S THE RIGHT THING FOR YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. AND THAT KICKED OFF ANOTHER TWO HOURS OF DISCUSSION IN WHICH EVERYONE IN THE ROOM WAS IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER MAKING DIFFERENT POINTS. BUT SUPPORTIVE OF MY APPROACH FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IN CRITICAL OF MR. CLARK. >> SO AT SOME POINT, MR. DONOGHUE COMES IN THE ROOM. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT LED TO HIM COMING IN THE ROOM? IN I FORGOT ABOUT THAT. SO INITIALLY, IN PART, I THINK BECAUSE HE WAS UNDERDRESSED, AND WE DID NOT ARRANGED, HAD NOT YET TOLD THE PRESIDENT THAT HE WAS GOING TO COME IN, THE WHITE HOUSE HAD A LIST OF HE WAS GOING TO BE THERE. WE WENT IN, AND THEN WE TOLD THE PRESIDENT MAYBE 10 MINUTES INTO THE MEETING OR SOMETHING, I FORGET HOW FAR IN, MR. DONOGHUE WAS OUTSIDE. HE SAID, WELL, BRING HIM IN. THEN MR. DONOGHUE CAME IN AND JOINED THE MEETING. >> FOR MR. DONOGHUE, YOU ENTERED THAT ROOM. CAN YOU SET THE TONE HE WALKED INTO? >> YES. BUT IF I COULD JUST BACKUP ONE MOMENT, CONGRESSMAN, THE PICTURES ON THE SCREEN OF THE AAG'S. I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT ONE OF THEM WAS JOHN WITH THE NATIONAL SECURITY DIVISION. HE WAS ON THE CALL. A PREFACE TO THE CALL BY SAYING, JOHN, WE NEED YOU TO STAY IN PLACE. NATIONAL SECURITY IS TOO IMPORTANT. WE NEED TO MINIMIZE THE DESTRUCTION. WHETHER YOU RESIGN IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU. WE WILL RESPECT YOUR DECISION EITHER WAY. BUT I'M ASKING, PLEASE STAY IN PLACE, AND HE DID. I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THE IMPRESSI THAT HE WAS NOT WILLING TO RESIGN. HE WAS. >> THANK YOU. WITH REGARD >> WITH REGARD TO SITTING IN THE OPEN OFFICE, I WAS SITTING IN THE HALLWAY. AN ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT CAME BY. HE SAID, OR USE OF THIS TO BE IN THE MEETING? I SAID I KNOW I AM JUST HERE IN CASE QUESTIONS COME UP. SHE WALKED AWAY AND CAME BACK AND SAID THE PRESIDENT WANTS YOU IN THE MEETING. I PROCEEDED INTO THE OVAL OFFICE. I TOOK PROBABLY TWO OR THREE STEPS IN, AND I STOPPED BECAUSE I WAS, AS HE AGES IT, NOT EXACTLY PROPERLY ATTIRED. I WAS WEARING JEANS IN MUDDY BOOTS AND AN ARMY T-SHIRT. I NEVER WOULD ARRIVE IN THE OVAL OFFICE THIS WAY. I SAID, MR. PRESIDENT, I APOLOGIZE. I'M SORRY. HE SAID NO, NO, JUST COME IN. I WENT IN. I ATTENDED TO TAKE A SEAT ON THE COUCHES THAT WERE BEHIND THE CHAIRS IN FRONT OF THE PRESIDENT'S DESK. HE SAID AMO, NO, NO, YOU ARE GOING TO BE AT HERE. EVERYONE KIND OF LAUGHED. THEY MOVED TO THE CHAIRS A LITTLE BIT. SOMEONE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL'S OFFICE PICKED UP A SPEAR CHAIR AND PUT IT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE PRESIDENT, AND I TOOK THAT SEED. >> WAS THERE DISCUSSION ABOUT MR. CLARK? CAN YOU KIND OF ENLIGHTEN WHAT THE DISCUSSION WAS? >> YES. SO, THE CONVERSATION AT THIS POINT HAD MOVED BEYOND THE SPECIFIC ALLEGATIONS, WHETHER IT WAS PENNSYLVANIA OR WHATEVER. WEAD DISCUSSED THOSE REATEDLY. THATAS BACK UP TO THE CONVERSATION. THE CONVERSATIONT THIS POINT WAS REALLY ABOUT WHETHER THE PRESIDENT SHOULD REMOVE JEFF ROSEN AND REPLING WITH JEFF CLARK. EVERYONE IN THE ROOM, I THINK, UNDERSTOOD THAT THE TTER WOULD GO OUT. THAT WAS THE FOCUS. THAT WAS ABOUT 2 1/2 HOURS AFTER I ENTERED. THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS ABO THE PA . ONLY ON, THE PRESIDENT SAID, WHY DO I HAVE TO LOSE? AND IT WAS ACTUALLY A GOOD OPENING BECAUSE I SAID, MR. DEAL TO LOSE. AVE A GREAT I BEGAN TO EXPLAIN TO HIM WHAT H AND WH THE COUNTRYAD TO LOSE. AND WHAT I THINK THE DEPARTMENT HAD TO LOSE, WHICH WAS NOT IN ANYONE'S BEST INTEREST. THAT CO SOME TIME. EVERYONE ESSENTIALLY CMED IN WITH THEIR OWN THOUGHTS, ALL OF WHICH WEREONSISTENT, ABOUT HOW DO THE COUNTRY, TO THE DEPARTMENT, TO THEDMINISTRATION, TO HIM PERSONALLY. AND AT SOME POIN THE CONVERTION TURNS TO WHHER JEFFLARK WAS EVEQUALIFIED, COMPETENT RUN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENTWHICH IN MY MIND, HE CLEARLY W NOT. AND IT W A HEATED CONVERSATION I THOUT IT WAS USEFUL TO POINT OUT THE PRESIDE THAT THE SKILLS, THE ABILITY,N TH ABITY TO RUNHE DEPARTMENT I SAID, MRESIDENT, YOU ARE TAING ABOUT TTING A MAN IN THAT SEAT WHO HAS NEVER TRIED A CRIMINAL CASE, WHO HAS NEVER CONDUCTED A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. HE'S TLING YOU THAT HE I GOING TO TAKE CHARGE O150,0 EMPLOYEES, INCLUDING T ENTIRE I, IN TURN THE PLACE ON A DIME AND CONDUCT NATIONWIDE IMIN INVESTIGATIONTHAT WILL PRODU RESULTS IA MATTER OF DAYS. IT'S IMPOSSIE. 'S ABSURD. IT N GOING TO BE HAPPEN, AND IT IS GOING TOAI HEASEV BEEN FRONT OF THE TRIAL JURY, GRAND JURY. HE WRAY'SFFICE.N TOHRIS I SAID AT ONE POINT,F YOU WALKNTCHRIS WRAY'S OFFIC ONE,O YOU KNOW HOW TO GET THERE? TWO, WOULD EVEN KNOW WHO YOU DO YOU REALLY THINTHE FBI IS GOING TO STARTOLWING ORDERS IT'S N GOING TO HAPPEN. HE IS N. TH ITHE POINT AT WCH MR. CLARK TRD TO DEFEND HIMSELF BYAYING, WELL, I HAVE BEEN VOLVED IN VERY SIGNICA VIL AND ENVIRONMENTAL INVEIGION. I HAVE ARGUED MANY APPEALS A APPELLATE URTS, D THINGS OF TH NATURE. I POINTED OUTH HE S AN ENVIRONME I DN'T THINK THAT WAS AN APPRRIE BACKGROUNDOR IT STATES JUICE DEPAMENT. >> DID ANYONE IN THE DEPARTMENT ? BUT NO ONE. >> MR.OSENIT WASEW GOG TO REPLACE. WHAT WAS YR EW? - WE AOING TO TA A PAELOCAL NEWS. FOR THREST OF YOUR . >> I GET 17 DAYS VACATION, THE ISSUE WAS E E OF THE JUICE DEPARTNTWHICH IS SO IMPOANT THATHEADHE TO THAT'S WHAIT'S TREO . D THAT'S WT OUR CONSTUONAL RE WAS. IF THEY GEOUT OF TOL THEY ARE SU IS REALLY D FOOUR UNTRY. SAY THAT. A SIMER WAY TO WHEN WDAGE OURUNDAMENTAL PAIR THEM., NOT SY T THOUT IS WAS A REALLY IMPORTANSUE T TO MAKE PARTMENTAS AE TO STAY ON E RIGHCOURSE >> DIDOU EVENTLLTELE ESIDTS WHAT THE ALONG TSE LINES, HE SAID SUPPOE I WITH JEFCLARK. IMMEDIATELY, I AM NOWORKIN ONE MINUTE FORHIS GUY WHO I JUST DLAD WAS MPTELY INCOMPEN AND THE PREDENT MEDIELRN TMR. ANGLE ANSAID YOUO -- RIG WOULD Y? HE SD ABSOTE I WOULD YOU AVE ME NCHOI. I'TELLING YOW UR ENTE DEPARTNTG TOOSE EVERY SING AID WILL WALK OUT, LK OUTITHIN HOURS.NTILL AND I N'T KNON AFTER AT. >> WHAVE U. ATTORNEYS D DISTRIC AND MY GUE WOULD BE NY OF THEM RESIGNATIONS AOSTHE HOU, YOU COULD HAVE HUNDDSND HDREDS OF RESIATNS, THE ADERSHIP O YOURNTE DEPARTME BAUSE YR TION WHAT IS TH GOI TO SAY A YOU? ACTION TO THAT? E YO MY RECOLLECTI IS EN THE WOULDN'TEAVE, WOULD YOU? SA I HAVE BEEN WITH YOU FOR TWO ATTORNEYENERALS, BUT COULDN' THE OTHER THING I SAID, ALL ANYO IGOING TOHINK AUT ALANYONE IS GOG TOHINK I IS THAT Y WENT THROUGH TW ATTORNEYS NERAL IN TWOEE ENVIRONMENTAGUY TO SIGN THIS. SO THE STORYS NOT GOINTO BE FOUND MASSIVCORRUPON, IT'SS GOG TO BE THE DISTER OF JE CLARK. HAT POINT,HIS MURDER ICIDE CT >> IT WAIN THIS NVERSATION WITH LEADING A GRAVEYARD.LEFT AND THATOMM . THE PREME WAS AT MR.LA COULD ME I TAKE OVER THE FFERENT, JUST AN ABSURD PREMISE. THE ESIDENT, THAT ULD HAVE BEEN A GEVOUERROR FOR THE ESIDT AS WEL >> THE WHITE HSE COUNSEL TOLD THE COMMITTEE THAT HIS RESPONSE HAD A NOTICEABLE IMPT ON THE PRESIDT. THATHIS WAS A RNING POINT IN THE CONVERSATIO TOWARDS THE END OF THE MEETING, DID THE PRESIDENT ASK YOU WHAT W? >>HEAST 15 MINUTES, THE ANNOUNCED THAT JEFF CLARK TRIED TO GET BACK AND ASK THE PRESENT TO RECONSIDER. THE PRESIDENT DOUBLE DOWN AND THEN HE CHANGED TO ME AND SAID SO WHAT HAPPENS TO HIM N MEANING MR. CLARK. HE UNDERSTOOD MR. CLARK REPORT TODAY ? ME. I DIDN'T INITIALLY UERSTAND THE QUESTION. HIM?AID, ARE YOU GOING TO FIRE AND I SAID I DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO FE HIM, HE IS THE SENATE CONFIRMEDTTORNEY GENERAL. WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO FIRE HIM? ONLY YOU D HE SAID I'M NOT GOING TO FIRE HIM. ALL RIGHT, THEN WE SHOULD ALL G. >> PROBABLY 90 MINUTES LATER. >> WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT? >> THE PRESIDENT AT THIS POINT, LEFT THEHITE HOUSE, RECONVENED AT HIS DEPARTMENT, I WAS BACK AT MY ARTMENT. MY CELL PHONE RANG, IT WAS THE PRESIDENT AND HE HAD INFORMATION ABT A TRUCK SUPPOSEDLY FULL OF SHREDDED BALLOTS IN GEORGIA THAT WAS IN THCUSTODY OF AND I.C.E. AGENT. I TOLD HIM THAT I.C.E. WAS PART OF HOMELAND SECURITY. I HADN'T HEARD ABOUT THIS . WE WOULD PROVIDE IT. BUT IT WAS REALLY UP TO THEM TO MAKE A CALL. AND HE SAID FINE, I UNDERSTAND, CAN YOU JUST MAKE SURE THAT HE KNOWS ABOUT THIS? I SAID I WOULD PASS IT ALONG TO HIM, I EVENTUALLY CONTACTED LATER THIS EVENING AND I SAID THIS IS WHAT THE PRESIDENT TOLD ME, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU THINK SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION, LET ME KNOW. HE SAID THANK YOU AND THAT WAS IT. >> LEFT THE MEETING CONVINCED THE PRESIDENT WOULD NOT APPOINT MR. CLARK. BUT HE DIDN'T THINK THE PRESIDENT HAD ACCEPTED THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ELECTION. SURE ENOUGH, ALL THE SAME THEORIES APPEARED IN A SPEECH THREE DAYS LATER CAST BY NON-CITIZENS. 11,600 MORE BALLOTS. AND VOTES WERE COUNTED, MORE >> IN WISCONSIN, CORRUPT DEMOCRAT RUN CITIES DEPLOYED MORE THAN 500 ILLEGAL, UNMANNED DROP BOXES WHICH COLLECTED A MINIMUM OF 91,000 UNLAWFUL VOTES. >> MR. DONAHUE, MR. ROSEN, STOPPED HIS EFFORTS TEMPORARILY. THEY KEPT UP THE PRESSURE CAMPAIGN ON A WAVE OF STORMING THE CAPITAL ON JANUARY 6th . WERE YOU AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ON JANUARY 6th? >> I WAS THERE ALL DAY. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU COMMUNICATED WITH FELLOW CABINET MEMBERS IN CAPITOL HILL LEADERSHIP, CAN YOU TELL US YOU SPOKE TO? >> I WAS ON THE PHONE VIRTUALLY NONSTOP ALL DAY, SOME CALLS WITH OUR OWN FOLKS, WITH CABINET COUNTERPARTS, SOME WITH SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS FROM LEADER SCHUMER. I BELIEVE LEADER McCONNELL'S CHIEF OF STAFF CALLED. A NUMBER OF OTHER MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AS. WELL. AND THE BASIC THRUST OF THE CALLS WITH THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WAS THERE'S A DIRE SITUATION HERE, AND CAN YOU HELP? AND I REPORTED TO T WE WERE SENDING HELP FROM THE DEPARTMENT ON A VERY URGENT BASIS, WE WOUND UP SENDING OVER 500 AGENTS AND OFFICERS FROM FBI, ATF AND U.S. MARSHALS. TO ASSIST WITH RESTORING ORDER AT THE U.S. CAPITOL. A NUMBER OF CALLS, MORE OR LESS NONSTOP ALL AFTERNOON. >> DID YOU SPEAK TO THE VICE PRESIDENT? >> TWICE. THE FIRST CALL WAS A ONE-ON- ONE, SOMEWHAT AKIN TO THE CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP CALLS. UPDATING HIM ON WHAT WE WERE DOING TO ASSIST. AND THE SECOND WAS A CONFERENCE CALL AROUND 7:00 WITH THE VICE PRESIDENT, CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS, SENIOR STAFF AND OTHER CABINET OFFICIALS. TO ADDRESS THAT ORDER APPEARED TO BE CLOSE TO BEING RESTORED, BUT SECURITY STILL BEING DETERMINED AND THE QUESTION IS WHAT TIME WILL CONGRESS REASSEMBLE, THE ANSWER WAS 8:00. THANKFULLY, CONGRESS DID REASSEMBLE. ONE HIGHLIGHT OF THAT SECOND CALL WAS MR. DONAHUE HAD GONE TO THE ROTUNDA TO BE ABLE TO GIVE FIRST-HAND ACCOUNTS AND WAS ABLE TO TELL THE FOLKS ON THE CALL, INCLUDING THE VICE PRESIDENT, THAT WE THOUGHT IT:00 WOULD WORK. >> DID YOU SPEAK TO THE PRESIDENT? >> I SPOKE TO A NUMBER OF SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS BUT NOT THE PRESIDENT. >> MR. DONAHUE, ON JANUARY 6th HIM >> YES, SIR. >> WE SEE HERE INA AWE SEEEO TN WE'RE GOING TO PLAY NOW, YOU A ARRIVING W VIDEOOUR YOU ARE HAVING WITH YOUR SECURITY DETAIL TO HELP SECURE THE CAPITOL. 30 MINUTES AFTER YOU ARRIVED TO THE CAPITOL EMMA DID YOU LEAVE A BRIEFING FOR THE VICE PRESIDENT? >> I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE TIMEFRAME WAS, BUT I DID PARTICIPATE IN A CALL. >> WHERE DID YOU CONDUCT THAT? >> I WAS IN AN OFFICE, MY DETAIL FOUND IT BECAUSE OF THE ACOUSTICS IN THE ROTUNDA WAS SUCH THAT IT WASN'T REALLY CONDUCIVE. SO THEY FOUND AN OFFICE AND WE WENT TO THAT AND PARTICIPATED INTO PHONE CALLS, ONE 1801 AT 1900. >> WHAT TIME DID YOU END UP LEAVING? >> I WAITED UNTIL SENATE WAS BACK IN SESSION, I BELIEVE A FEW MINUTES AFTER 8 P.M. ONCE THEY'RE BACK IN SESSION, AND WE WERE CONFIDENT THE ENTIRE FACILITY WAS SECURED, THAT THERE WERE NO INDIVIDUALS HIDING IN CLOSETS OR UNDER DESK'S, THAT THERE WERE NO IED'S OR SUSPICIOUS DEVICES LEFT, I LEFT. I WAS PROBABLY GONE BY 8:30. >> DID YOU HEAR FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP THAT DAY? >> I SPOKE TO THE ACTING AG, MARK MEADOWS AND THE VICE PRESIDENT AND THE CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP THAT I NEVER SPOKE TO THE PRESIDENT THAT DAY. >> TODAY'S HEARING SHOWCASED THE EFFORTS OF THE AMERICANS BEFORE US TO STAND UP FOR DEMOCRACY. MR. ROSEN, MR. DONAHUE STATES THAT THE OATH THEY TAKE IS THE OFFICIALS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. ON JANUARY 6th, THEY ASSISTED DURING THE ATTACK WHILE OUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF STAYED SILENT. THEIR BRAVERY IS A HIGH MOMENT IN THE STORY OF WHAT LED TO THIS. MY COLLEAGUES AND I ALSO TAKE AN OATH. SOME OF THEM FAILED TO UPHOLD THERE'S AND INSTEAD CHOSE TO SPREAD THE BIG LIE. DAYS AFTER THE TRAGIC EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th, SOME OF THE SAME PUBLIC AND MEMBERS REQUESTED PARDONS IN THE WANING DAYS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. FIVE DAYS AFTER THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL, REPRESENTATIVE MO BROOKS SENT AN EMAIL ON THE SCREEN NOW. AS YOU SEE, HE EMAILED THE WHITE HOUSE PURSUANT TO A REQUEST FROM MATT GATES, REQUESTING A PARDON FOR REPRESENTATIVE GATES, HIMSELF, AND UNNAMED OTHERS. WITNESSES TOLD THE COMMITTEE THAT THE PRESIDENT CONSIDERED OFFERING PARDONS TO A WIDE RANGE OF INDIVIDUALS CONNECTED TO THE PRESIDENT. >> WAS HE REQUESTING A PARDON? >> I BELIEVE SO. >> THE GENERAL TONE WAS WE MAY GET PROSECUTED BECAUSE WE WERE DEFENSIVE OF HIS POSITION ON THESE THINGS. THE PARDON THAT HE WAS DISCUSSING WAS AS BROAD AS YOU CAN DESCRIBE. FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME UP UNTIL TODAY. NIXON'S PARDON WAS NEVER NEARLY THAT BROAD . GAETZ AND MR. BROO KNOW BOTH ADVOCATED FOR MEMBERS THAT WEREN'T AT THE DECEMBER 1st MEETING AS THE PRE-EMPTIVE HE IS CURRENTLY PU. MR. GAETZ WAS PERSONALLY PUSHING A PARDON. I'M NOT SURE WHY. TO ASK IF WE COULD HAVE A MEETING, NOT ALL OF THEM BUT SEVERAL OF THEM DID. MR. JORDAN TALKED ABOUT CONGRESSIONAL PARDONS BU WHETHER THE WHITE HOUSE WAS T GOING TO PARDON MHEBERS ASKED FOR ONE AS WELL. >> I HEARD THAT SHE HAD ASKED FOR THAT AS WELL. BUT I DIDN'T RECENTLY. >> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY CONVERSATIONS OR COMMUNICATIONS REGARDING THE POSSIBILITY OF GIVING HIM A PARDON? >> I KNOW HE HAD ASKED FOR IT BUT I DON'T KNOW IF HE EVER RECEIVED ONE OR WHAT HAPPENED WITH IT? >> HOW DO YOU KNOW WE ASK FOR ONE? >> HE TOLD ME. >> TELL US ABOUT THAT. >> HE TOLD ME HE ASKED FOR A PARDON. >> WERE YOU INVOLVED IN ANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A BLANKET PARDON FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED? >> I HAD HEARD THAT MENTIONED. >> DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE PRESIDENT HAS ANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT POTENTIALLY PARDONING ANY FAMILY MEMBERS? >> I KNOW HE HAD HINTED THAT A BLANKET PARDON FOR THE JANUARY 6th THING FOR ANYBODY, BUT FOR ALL THE STAFF AND EVERYONE INVOLVED JUST BEFORE HE LEFT OFFICE, I KNOW HE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT. >> THE ONLY REASON I KNOW TO ASK FOR ONE IS BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. >> I WANT TO THANK OUR WITNESSES FOR JOINING US TODAY. THE MEMBERS OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE MAY HAVE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR TODAY'S WITNESSES, AND WE ASK THAT YOU RESPOND EXPEDITIOUSLY IN WRITING TO THESE QUESTIONS. WITHOUT OBJECTION, MEMBERS WILL BE PERMITTED 10 BUSINESS DAYS TO SUBMIT STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD. WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE CHAIR RECOGNIZES THE GENTLEMAN FROM ILLINOIS FOR A CLOSING STATEMENT. >> THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LAWYERS ARE NOT THE PRESIDENT'S PERSONAL LAWYERS. WE COUNT ON THEM TO BE ON THE SIDE OF THE LAW AND DEFEND THE BEST INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S HOW IT'S BEEN SINCE THE DEPARTMENT WAS FOUNDED. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LAWYERS ARE SUPPOSED TO PLAY AT 100% STRAIGHT. PRESIDENT TRUMP TRIED TO ERASE THE BALLOT BOX BY PARACHUTING AN UNQUALIFIED MAN INTO THE TOP JOB. IT WAS A POWER PLAY TO WIN AT ALL COSTS WITH NO REGARD FOR THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. IT WAS ABOUT IGNORING MILLIONS OF VOTES, IGNORE THEM, THROW THEM OUT, LABEL THEM FRAUDULENT, CORRUPT, ILLEGAL, WHATEVER. THAT WAS CLEARLY JUST AN INCONVENIENCE. PRESIDENT TRUMP URGED OTHERS TO BRING HIS BIG LIE TO LIFE. HE BEGGED, JUST SAY THE ELECTION WAS CORRUPT AND LEAVE THE REST TO ME AND THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN. HE DIDN'T CARE WHAT THEY PROVE. IT'S NO SURPRISE THAT ALL THE FULLY FABRICATED CONSPIRACY THEORIES COLLAPSED UNDER EVEN THE SLIGHTEST SCRUTINY. THAT INSANITY WENT FROM THE INTERNET TO THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT IN NO TIME. THE BOTTOM LINE, THE MOST SENIOR LEADERSHIP OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR, JEFF ROSSEN, DEPUTY RICH DONAHUE, EVERYONE EXCEPT JEFF CLARK WAS TELLING PRESIDENT TRUMP THE VERY SAME THING. THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES WERE FALSE. THE ALLEGATION WAS A LIE. THE DATA LEFT NO ROOM FOR DOUBT. NOTHING TO QUESTION. AND THE CONSTITUTION LEFT NO ROOM FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. BUT WE ARE HERE TODAY BECAUSE THE FACTS WERE IRRELEVANT. IT WAS ABOUT PROTECTING HIS VERY REAL POWER AND VERY FRAGILE EGO. EVEN IF IT REQUIRED RECKLESSLY UNDERLINING OUR ENTIRE ELECTORAL SYSTEM BY WILDLY CASTING BASELESS DOUBT. IN SHORT, HE WAS WILLING TO SACRIFICE OUR REPUBLIC TO PROLONG HIS PRESIDENCY. I CAN IMAGINE NO MORE DISHONORABLE ACT BY A PRESIDENT. WE OWE A GREAT DEBT OF GRATITUDE TO THESE MEN WE HAVE HEARD FROM TODAY. REAL LEADERS WHO STOOD FOR JUSTICE WHEN IT WAS IN GREAT PERIL. WHO PUT THEIR COUNTRY FIRST WHEN THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD DEMANDED OTHERWISE. THREE THREATENED TO RESIGN RATHER THAN CORRUPT OUR DEMOCRACY. THANKS TO EACH OF THEM, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S COUP FAILED.T, AND LEAVE THE REST TO TRUMP'S MR. CLARK REFUSED TO COOPERATE WITH THIS COMMITTEE, HE PLED THE FIFTH OVER 125 TIMES. WHY RISK INCRIMINATION? AND PRESIDENT TRUMP CONGRESSIONAL FRIENDS, SOME OF THEM ARE ANGLING FOR PARDONS. THEY KNEW THAT EVERY BIT OF WHAT THEY DID WAS A LIE AND IT WAS WRONG. THAT'S ALL THE MORE REASON TO RESPECT THOSE. WE THANK THEM FOR THEIR UNFLINCHING SERVICE IN THE FACE OF PRESSURE. THE ONLY THING NECESSARY IS GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING. THANKFULLY THERE WERE GOOD PEOPLE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. WE HEARD FROM OTHER GOOD PEOPLE ON TUESDAY. THEY TOO DEFENDED US. BUT I AM STILL WORRIED THAT NOT ENOUGH HAS CHANGED TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING AGAIN. THE OATH THAT WE TAKE HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING. IT HAS TO CUT TO THE CORE OF WHO WE ARE AND BE THE DRIVING FORCE OF OUR SERVICE. WE MAY BE ABLE TO SHINE LIGHT ON THE STARKNESS, BUT THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. IT'S UP TO EVERY AMERICAN TO STAND FOR TRUTH, TO REJECT THE LIES WHEREVER WE CONFRONT THEM IN OUR TOWNS, OUR CAPITALS, OUR FRIENDSHIPS AND FAMILIES. WITHIN OUR OWN MINDS AND HEARTS. THANK YOU. >> WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE CHAIR RECOGNIZES MS. CHENEY FROM WYOMING FOR CLOSING STATEMENTS. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I AGAIN WANT TO THANK THE WITNESSES FOR BEING HERE. AFTER TODAY, I SUSPECT THERE WILL BE SOME WHO LABEL YOU AGENTS OF THE DEEP STATE OR SOMETHING ELSE CONSPIRATORIAL OR NONSENSICAL MEANT TO JUSTIFY IGNORING THE FACTS. THAT MAY BE A HISTORIC COST OF ACTING HONORABLY AND TELLING THE TRUTH BUT YOUR ACTIONS SHOULD HAVE AN IMPORTANT IMPACT. THEY WILL HELP KEEP US ON THE COURSE SET BY OUR CONSTITUTION. LET ME PARAPHRASE THE WORDS THAT JOHN ADAMS AND OTHERS, WHETHER OUR SHALL CONTINUE TO BE A GOVERNMENT OF LAWS AND NOT OF MEN IS ULTIMATELY FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO DECIDE. AND LET ME ALSO MAKE A BROADER STATEMENT, THE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO PUT THEIR TRUST IN DONALD TRUMP, AND THESE HEARING SO FAR YOU HAVE HEARD FROM MORE THAN A DOZEN REPUBLICANS WHO TOLD YOU WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE WEEKS BEFORE JANUARY 6. YOU WILL HEAR FROM MORE IN THE HEARINGS TO COME. SEVERAL OF THEM SERVED DONALD TRUMP IN AND OF ADMINISTRATION, OTHERS IN HIS CAMPAIGN, OTHERS HAVE BEEN CONSERVATIVE THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS. IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO EXPECT THAT HE DECEIVED YOU. MANY WILL INVENT EXCUSES TO IGNORE THAT. BUT THAT IS A FACT. I WISH IT WEREN'T TRUE, BUT IT IS. THANK YOU. I YIELD BACK. >> I THINK MY COLLEAGUES FOR THIS HEARING. WE CONCLUDE OUR FIFTH HEARING, I WANT TO REMIND YOU OF A FEW THINGS THE COMMITTEE HAS SHOWN. DONALD TRUMP LOST THE ELECTION. TRUMP KNEW HE LOST, THOSE WHO SAY THE ELECTION WAS AFFECTED BY WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD ARE LYING. THEY WERE LYING IN 2020, THEY WERE LYING IN 2021, AND INDEED THEY ARE LYING TODAY. DONALD TRUMP WENT TO COURT. SEEKING TO CHALLENGE THE OUTCOME OF AN ELECTION. DONALD TRUMP LOST IN COURT DOZENS AND DOZENS OF TIMES. HE LOST IN PART BECAUSE THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE THAT VOTER FRAUD HAD ANY IMPACT ON THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION. TO BORROW A PHRASE FROM OUR WITNESS EARLIER THIS WEEK, ALL HE HAD WAS THEORIES AND NO EVIDENCE. AS I SAID, IF YOU ARE RUNNING FOR OFFICE IN THE U.S., THAT'S THE END OF THE LINE. YOU ACCEPT THE JUDGMENT, YOU RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW AND THE WILL OF THE VOTERS. BUT FOR DONALD TRUMP THAT WASN'T THE END OF THE LINE. THE VOTERS REFUSED TO KEEP HIM IN OFFICE. THE COURTS REFUSED TO AN OFFICE. BUT HE CONTINUED TO LIE AND WENT IN SEARCH OF ANYONE WHO WOULD GO ALONG WITH HIS SCHEME. AND WE HAVE SHOWN TODAY, HE PRESSURED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO ACT AS AN ARM OF HIS REELECTION CAMPAIGN. HE HELPED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS WOULD GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF LEGITIMACY TO HIS LIES. SO HE AND HIS ALLIES HAD SOME VENEER OF CREDIBILITY WHEN THEY TOLD THE COUNTRY THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN. EARLIER THIS WEEK, WE SHOWED HOW DONALD TRUMP BROUGHT THE WEIGHT OF THE PRESIDENCY DOWN ON LOCAL AND STATE OFFICIALS WHO ARE TRYING TO DO THEIR JOBS. AND ULTIMATELY DID. THEY INVESTIGATED HIS CLAIMS AND FOUND THEM TO BE FALSE. AND THEN THEY ENDURED HIS PRESSURE CAMPAIGN. A GREAT RISK TO THEMSELVES AND THEIR LOVED ONES. AND OF COURSE ELEVATED A SCHEME TO GET MIKE PENCE TO VIOLATE THE LAW BY REJECTING THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES ON JANUARY 6th AND BLOCKING THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER. I MENTIONED THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT LAST BECAUSE, AS WE SHOWED, WHEN HE REFUSED TO BOW TO THE PRESSURE IN THOSE CRITICAL MOMENTS, THAT WAS A BACKUP PLAN OF STOPPING THE TRANSFER OF POWER. THE MOB AND OTHER THREATS. UP TO THIS POINT, WE HAVE SHOWN THE INNER WORKINGS OF WHAT WAS ESSENTIALLY A POLITICAL COUP RESULTS OF THE ELECTION. FIND ME THE VOTES. SEND FAKE. ELECTORS. ALONG THE WAY, WE SAW THREATS OF VIOLENCE, WHAT SOME PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO DO. IN THE SERVICE OF THE NATION, THE CONSTITUTION, NO. IN SERVICE OF DONALD TRUMP. WHEN THE SELECT COMMITTEE CONTINUES THIS SERIES OF HEARINGS, WE ARE GOING TO SHOW HOW DONALD TRUMP TAPPED INTO THE THREAT OF VIOLENCE, HOW HE SUMMONED THE MOB TO WASHINGTON, AND HOW HE AFTER CORRUPTION AND POLITICAL PRESSURE FAILED TO KEEP DONALD TRUMP IN OFFICE, VIOLENCE BECAME THE LAST OPTION. MY INVESTIGATION IS ONGOING, THOSE HEARINGS HAVE SPURRED NEW INFORMATION THAT THE COMMITTEE AND OUR INVESTIGATORS ARE WORKING TO ASSESS. WE ARE COMMITTED TO PRESENTING THE MERICAN PEOPLE WITH THE MOST COMPLETE INFORMATION POSSIBLE. THAT WILL BE OUR AIM WHEN WE RECONVENE IN THE COMING WEEKS. THE CHAIR REQUESTS THOSE IN THE HEARING ROOM REMAIN SEATED UNTIL THE CAPITOL POLICE ESCORT MEMBERS FROM THE ROOM. WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE COMMITTEE STANDS ADJOURNED. >> AS THE HEARINGS COME TO A CLOSE FOR TODAY, THE FOCUS SQUARELY ON HOW PRESIDENT TRUMP UNSUCCESSFULLY TRIED TO GET THE DOJ TO DECLARE THE ELECTION CORRUPT. TODAY'S WITNESSES TESTIFIED A FORMER ATTORNEY NAMED JEFF CLARK WAS ALIGNED WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT IN A BID TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION. IN PART BY TRYING TO REPLACE AT THE TOP OF THE DEPARTMENT. WITNESSES TONIGHT DESCRIBED AN OVAL OFFICE MEETING WITH AN AGITATED PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO WANTED LEADERSHIP TO SEIZE VOTING MACHINES. A REQUEST THEY REFUSED. CHUCK TODD. LET'S ASSESS WILL BE HEARD TODAY AND WHERE THIS LEADS US. >> I THINK TODAY IS THE BEST EXAMPLE, THIS IS A MULTIFACETED POPULATION. TO OVERTURN THIS ELECTION. AND WHAT I THINK THE SENATE HAS DONE A TERRIFIC JOB OF DOING IS LAYING OUT THAT THESE WERE CONNECTED BUT DISTINCT. THEN HE WAS PRESSURING STATE OFFICIALS, THEN HE LEFT THAT WASN'T WORKING SO HE HAD TO GET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INVOLVED, THEN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, I WILL TAKE CARE OF THE REST. HE WANTED SOME SORT OF LEGITIMACY FROM THAT. AND THEN THE WORD COUP HAS BEEN THROWN AROUND TOO MUCH, BUT TODAY IS WHERE WE COME CLOSEST TO WHERE I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE WANT TO USE THAT WORD. BECAUSE THAT MEETING IN THE OVAL OFFICE WHERE ESSENTIALLY THOSE OFFICIALS TALK THE PRESIDENT OUT OF ORCHESTRATING A COUP, THAT WAS THE CLOSEST WE CAME TO HIM ALMOST BEGINNING THE ORCHESTRATION OF IT.DENLY DECIDING TO DO THIS. WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE DONE WITH YOU NOW SEE WHY THEY BELIEVED THE VIOLENCE SHOULD BE DIRECTLY HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY THE PRESIDENT, THEY VIEW IT AS THE LAST RESORT. THEM WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LAST 48 HOURS? WHAT IS THE TRULY LAST RESORT? SEE IF YOU CAN TOTALLY DISRUPT THE PROCESS. WAS THE MOST CHILLING BECAUSE TODAY IS THE I THINK TODAY WAS WHERE YOU SAW WHERE IT ALMOST BECAME ONE. >> THE ULTIMATE QUESTION, WHAT IF? >> HE BASICALLY -- IT'S FUNNY, TRUMP HAS THE ABILITY TO SEE SOME CLARITY WHEN HE DESCRIBED IT, YOU REALIZED EVERYONE IS GOING TO LEAVE, TRUMP NEW THAT IF THE DOJ RESIGNED EN MASSE, SENATE REPUBLICANS WOULD BAIL ON HIM . AND IT ENDS UP TOTALLY SCREWING UP HIS ENTIRE GAME. NBC NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AFTER TODAY'S TESTIMONY? >> I ALWAYS WONDER WHAT THEY ARE THINKING, WHETHER THEY ARE SEEING EVIDENCE OF CRIME TO PROSECUTE. TODAY WE CERTAINLY SAW SOME OF THAT. THE LETTER TO THE GEORGE'S LEGISLATURE FROM DONALD TRUMP THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO GET THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO SEND, IT WAS A DAGGER INTO THE HEART OF OUR DEMOCRACY. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED IT AND I WOULDN'T EVEN WANT TO CONSIDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN HAD THAT BEEN SENT. IT WAS A LIE WHERE WE GOT INTO SOME MEASUREKY TERRITORY TODAY. YOU DIDN'T HEAR WITNESSES SAY HE KNEW HE LOST BUT WAS PUTTING FORWARD THE. THEORIES ANY WAY. THAT IS THE DILEMMA BECAUSE IN ORDER TO PROSECUTE THE FORMER PRESIDENT, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT NEEDS EVIDENCE OF CRIMINAL INTENT. AND THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT IN COURT. THE SAME WOULD GO FOR MR. ROSEN, FOR JEFFREY CLARK, WHOSE HOME WAS SEARCHED TODAY BY FEDERAL >> WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT IS WITH US AS WELL. WHAT STOOD OUT FOR YOU? >> THIS DRAMATIC MEETING AT THE WHITE HOUSE, THAT REALLY COMES DOWN TO WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, WHAT IF? IT REALLY BRINGS HOW CLOSE THIS NATION CAME TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ENDING. AND TO HIM SUCCEEDING IN HIS ATTEMPT TO HOLD ONTO A POWER. ALREADY CALLING THE ACTING AG. THAT IN SOME WAYS REALLY DOES GET OUT EXACTLY HOW CLOSE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP CAME TO INSTALLING WHAT IS SOMEONE WHO IS REALLY IN ENVIRONMENTAL LAWYER, WHO IS WAY OUT OF HIS LEAGUE AND WHO IS STILL OBSESSED WITH OVERTURNING THE ELECTIONCE TOLD ME, IT STOPPED FUNCTIONING FOR THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AS A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC AND ALL THE THINGS GOING ON,. AND INSTEAD YOU HAVE ALL THE ARMS OF THE GOVERNMENT YOU HAVE ALL THESE ARMS OF THE GOVERNMENT FOCUSED ON TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION, AND THAT LIST OF LAWMAKERS, THE 82 MARK MEADOWS SAYING HE ASKED FOR A PARDON, IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WATCH. THESE NAMES BEING PUT OUT THERE PUBLICLY, REALLY TELLS US THAT THIS IS A SCHEME THAT REALLY WAS GETTING TO THE HEART OF THE PARTY. AND THESE LAWMAKERS NEW THEY WERE POTENTIALLY CRIMINALLY LIABLE. THEY ARE CONTINUING TO LIE ABOUT THE ELECTION, WHO WERE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL CONTINUING TO SPREAD THESE FALSE CLAIMS ABOUT THE ELECTION BEING STOLEN. THAT TELLS YOU THAT EVEN AFTER JANUARY 6 WHEN THEY WERE ASKING FOR PARDONS, THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE DOING THIS. AND YOU HAVE SOMEONE LIKE SCOTT PERRY, SAYING THAT IS A LIE, BUT HE IS SAYING THAT WHEN HE'S NOT UNDER OATH. THAT YOUNG LADY THAT WE SAW, AND 82 MARK MEADOWS, SHE IS UNDER OATH SAYING THIS. IT IS REALLY STRIKING TO ME THAT SHE WAS NAMED BY MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. TALKING ABOUT THIS, THAT IS SOMETHING TO WATCH OUT FOR. >> TALK IF YOU CAN ABOUT FOLKS SEEKING PARDONS, WHAT YOU READ INTO THAT AND WHAT THE LEGAL EXPOSURE IS. >> THE PARDON HAS PRESIDENT. -- PRECEDENT. BUT THE REALLY INTERESTING LEGAL QUESTION IS REQUESTING A PARDON, IS THAT EVIDENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS OF GUILT OR I DON'T BELIEVE I DID ANYTHING WRONG AND THAT'S WHY I DESERVE A PARDON. AN INTERESTING LEGAL AND ETHICAL QUESTION. >> DID THEY DO A GOOD JOB OF TYING THAT, MAKING THAT CONNECT? >> I THINK THE DETAILS OF THE LETTER, I THINK THAT IS PEOPLE ARE NOT FULLY APPRECIATING THE POWER OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE LETTERHEAD. IT IS LEFT THE SUBSTANCE OF THE LETTER AND MORE THE ACTION THAT THEY PUT THE LETTER OUT. AND SO I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE ASKING. IF YOU PAY CLOSE ATTENTION, I THINK YOU CAN SEE IT. BUT IT'S HARD TO TRULY VISUALIZE. IF YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING THIS THE WHOLE TIME, SUDDENLY I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING TO THIS, THAT MIGHT MAKE PEOPLE THINK THERE IS SOMETHING TO IT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A POWERFUL OPERATION IF THEY PULL THAT OFF AND IT COULD HAVE BEEN. >> THAT WILL CONCLUDE OUR COVERAGE, MUCH MORE COMING UP ON NBC NIGHTLY NEWS. FOR NOW, LESTER HOLT IN NEW YORK, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. >>> ON THE AIR RIGHT NOW AFTER A BIG AND BUSY DAY OF BREAKING NEWS. A LOT OF NEW DETAILS WE ARE GETTING FROM THREE SENIOR TRUMP APPOINTED JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS. YOU HEARD SOME OF IT IF YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING OUR COVERAGE, TESTIFYING LIFE TO THE COUNTRY ABOUT THIS POST BY FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP TO TRY TO PUT A LOYALIST IN CHARGE. SOMEBODY WHO IS SYMPATHETIC TO HIS LIES ABOUT THE ELECTION, TRYING TO FALSELY OVERTURN THOSE 2020 RESULTS IN SEVERAL STATES, BASED ON THIS DEBUNKED CONSPIRACY THEORY. WE HAVE JUST WRAPPED THIS HEARING AND HEAD INTO THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS COMMUNICATION. YOU'VE GOT KIND OF A TALE OF TWO JEFFRIES. THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, JEFFREY ROSEN. ONLY SERVED FOR ABOUT A MONTH. HE ACCEPTED BUT THE DOJ HAD DETERMINED, THAT THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD FRAUD. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE THIS OTHER JEFFREY, THAT IS VERY PRESENT. WANTED TO REPLACE HIM WITH. AND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT OF IT, THIS IS HOW HE SUMS THEM UP. >> WHEN HE FINISHED DISCUSSING WHAT HE PLANNED ON DOING, I SAID CONGRATULATIONS, YOU ARE CREATING A FELONY. YOU ARE CLEARLY THE RIGHT CANDIDATE FOR THIS JOB. >> THAT IS SARCASM. THAT SOUNDBITE YOU LISTENED TO IS REALLY IMPORTANT. BECAUSE IT DRAWS A LINK BETWEEN JEFFREY CLARK, SOMEBODY WHO DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO TAKE OVER THE DOJ, WITH KNOWLEDGE FROM ANOTHER ATTORNEY THAT WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO WAS ILLEGAL. THAT'S IMPORTANT. WE JUST FOUND OUT HE GOT A VISIT FROM FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS. SO KEEP IN MIND THAT IF CLARK HAD TAKEN OVER, THAT COULD HAVE GIVEN LEGITIMACY TO THESE TOTALLY MADE UP LIES. AND IF HE GOT THAT JOB, YOU COULD HAVE SEEN FALSE LETTERS SAYING THAT PRESIDENT -- THOSE LETTERS GOT DRAFTED, WE SAW THEM. ACCORDING TO THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, CLARK WAS CONDUCTING THIS INVESTIGATION, TRYING TO GET A NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE BRIEFING. AND DONAHUE WAS VERY CLEAR, HE TOLD THE FORMER PRESIDENT THESE CLAIMS HAD ABSOLUTELY NO MERIT. >> I FELT THAT BEING VERY BLUNT IN THAT CONVERSATION MIGHT HELP MAKE IT CLEAR THESE ALLEGATIONS WERE SIMPLY NOT TRUE. I WENT PIECE BY PIECE TO SAY THAT IS NOT TRUE. THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT HE WAS TAKING ACTION ON WERE NOT TRUE. KEEP IN MIND, WE FOUND OUT THE WHITE HOUSE ALREADY SHOWED HIM AS THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL ON JANUARY 3rd, THREE DAYS BEFORE. HE NEVER HAD THAT JOB. CONFIRMING NOW PUBLICLY THAT THEY DID SPEAK WITH FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL. THEY HAVE NOW HEARD FROM HIM INFORMALLY AND TALKED ABOUT WHAT THEY LEARNED. REMEMBER, WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL, HE WAS IN ALL THESE MEETINGS, AND WHAT DONALD TRUMP KNEW AND WHEN. THIS LETTER DRAFTED BY CLARK WAS BASICALLY A MURDER SUICIDE PACT. SO MANY PEOPLE WOULD RESIGN IF JEFFREY CLARK ENDED UP TAKING OVER. HE KNEW THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED TO PUT JEFFREY CLARK IN THE PLACE, TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THESE. I WANT TO BRING IN OUR TEAM STANDING BY OUT IN THE FIELD. OUR LEGAL ANALYST, AND IN A MINUTE WE WILL BRING IN CHUCK TODD. ALLIE RAFFA . LET ME START WITH YOU. THE REACTION WE ARE GETTING. WHAT HAS BEEN THE TAKE AWAY? >> I THINK THE BIGGEST TAKE AWAY WAS THIS PRESIDENTIAL PARDON, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE NOTICING SOME REACTION, ALREADY CONGRESSMAN MO BROOKS WHO HAS BEEN SUBPOENAED BY THE COMMITTEE AFTER VOLUNTARILY TESTIFYING AS FAR AS HIS ROLE. WE LEARNED THAT HE WAS AMONG SEVERAL CONGRESSMEN WE ALSO LEARNED MORE ABOUT PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSMAN SCOTT PERRY WHO THE COMMITTEE REALLY LAID OUT WAS THE REASON FOR CLARK BEING BROUGHT IN TO THE WHITE HOUSE, THIS TRUMP LOYALIST WHO HE WANTED TO REPLACE ROSEN WITH AT THE TOP. THIS INSTITUTION THAT HAS MADE IT A POINT TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. THE COMMITTEE REALLY GOING INTO REALLY USING -- >> LET ME BRING YOU IN HERE, THERE'S A COUPLE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR YOU. WHAT ARE THE REVELATIONS FROM THIS HEARING TODAY? ANOTHER BIG TAKE AWAY, IT HAPPENED RIGHT AT THE END. THIS IDEA THAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, SOME OF THEM WERE LOOKING FOR PARDONS. ACCORDING TO SOME OF THE TESTIMONY, ALLUDED TO THE IDEA OF PARDONS. WE ARE NOW HEARING FROM CONGRESSMAN BROOKS, HE SAID HE WOULD APPEAR IN FRONT OF THE COMMITTEE IF THAT DEPOSITION WAS SHOWN PUBLICLY AND COULD BE PUBLIC. HELP US UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS SO SIGNIFICANT THAT YOU HAVE SOME OF THESE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS SCHEME THAT HAD BEEN ASKING TO BE PARDONED. >> THERE IS SOME ISSUE SAYING YOU HAVE SOME CRIMINAL CONSCIOUSNESS OF GUILT. BUT THE BIG THING THAT HAPPENED TODAY WAS THIS CONSPIRACY, WHICH WAS SHOWN TO BE SOLD CALLING AND INVOLVING SO MANY OTHERS. THE REALLY BIG THING ABOUT THESE IS WHAT THEY WERE DOING THAT CAUSED THEM TO SAY I WANT A PARDON. SO IT'S THE CONDUCT AND THE WAY IN WHICH SCOTT PERRY, WE KNOW ABOUT SPECIFICALLY. THE ACTUAL PLAN HAS THEM DEEPLY INVOLVED IN TRYING TO DO WHAT IS PLAINLY A CRIME. THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO WAS, AFTER BEING TOLD BY HIS BOSS AT THE TIME, TECHNICALLY STILL HIS BOSS. THAT HE WAS OUT OF LINE HERE. HE CONTINUED TO MAKE CALLS, HE ASKED FOR A BRIEFING FROM INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS. DOES JEFFREY CLARK HAVE ANY LEGAL LIABILITY HERE? >> BIG TIME, HE IS ALSO A COOPERATING WITNESS. ESSENTIALLY A NON-ENTITY, HE DOESN'T REALLY GO VERY HIGH. TRUMP IS ANY PORT IN A STORM, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE HE AGREES TO LET HIMSELF BE USED IN THIS LIE. THIS ONE LEFT ME COMPLETELY BREATHLESS, BECAUSE IT WAS SO CLOSE. EVERYWHERE ELSE, HE IS CRAWLING AROUND, OING WHATEVER HE CAN. THIS WAS THE WIDTH OF THE PAPER. THAT PAPER GOES OUT, PEOPLE IN GEORGIA AND OTHER STATES SAY THEY THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM, AND YOU CAN REALLY SEE HOW THE DOMINOES AT THAT POINT WOULD HAVE FALLEN AND WOULD HAVE LEFT HIM POTENTIALLY IN POWER. >> WE SAW THEM PULLING ALL THE FIRE ALARMS. THE NEXT LEVEL OF DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, BASICALLY TAKE A ROLL CALL AND SAY IF I JUMP, YOU JUMP. THEY ALL AGREE THAT THEY WERE OUT IF HE CAME INTO PLAY. CRITICALLY, THIS PIECE OF NEWS THAT WE GOT TODAY, SEVERAL AUTHORITIES WERE AT CLARK'S HOUSE. >> ACCORDING TO A WITNESS, THEY CONDUCTED A SEARCH, THEY TOOK HIM OUT OF HIS HOUSE IN HIS PAJAMAS AND SEIZED HIS ELECTRONIC DEVICES. WHICH WOULD SUGGEST THEY HAD A WARRANT, THEY CONVINCED THE JUDGE THERE WAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE A CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITTED. USUALLY THEY DO THAT WHEN THEY BELIEVE A WITNESS IS TRYING TO HIDE EVIDENCE OR NOT SUBMIT DOCUMENTS. I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH HARRY, THAT HEARING TODAY WAS BREATHTAKING. BECAUSE OF HOW CLOSE WE CAME TO AN ABSOLUTE DISASTER. THE LETTER TO THE GEORGIA LEGISLATURE THAT WAS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS CONSPIRACY, THAT TRUMP WANTED THE DOJ TO SEND OUT SAYING THAT THEY HAD FOUND FRAUD WHEN IN FACT THEY HAD NOT. IT WAS A DAGGER AIMED AT THE HEART OF OUR DEMOCRACY. THERE LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN CIVIL UNREST THAT MADE JANUARY 6th LOOK LIKE A PICNIC. THE ONLY REASON IT DIDN'T HAPPEN IS BECAUSE COURAGEOUS PEOPLE, MANY OF THEM APPOINTED BY TRUMP, STOOD UP AND SAID WE ARE NOT DOING THIS. WE WANT NO PART OF THIS. AND WE WILL RESIGN IF YOU TRY TO APPOINT THIS GUY. I AM HIS STANDING IN FRONT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, I ALWAYS WATCH THESE WITH AN EYE TO WHAT THE PROSECUTORS ARE GETTING OUT OF THIS. IF THEY EVER DO BRING A CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, A LOT OF THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE WE HEARD WILL BE A BIG PART OF IT. ONE THING THE HEARING DID NOT FALL IS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER DONALD TRUMP HAD CRIMINAL INTENT. WHAT WE NEVER HEARD FROM THOSE WITNESSES WAS ANYBODY SAYING DONALD TRUMP KNEW HE WAS LYING. HE TOLD US HE KNEW HE WANTED TO ASSERT THESE CLAIMS ANYWAYS. THAT WILL BE ACCUSED OF EVIDENCE. >> THANK YOU. LET ME BRING IN CHUCK TODD. I KNOW THAT ONE OF YOUR BIG TAKEAWAYS, THE SHEER SCOPE OF WHAT WE SAW UNFOLD AS IT RELATED TO THIS PRESSURE CAMPAIGN ON THE DOJ. TO TRY TO INSTALL A LOYALIST AT THE TOP. YOU HAVE 1 MILLION NAMES, TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW COMING OUT OF THIS? >> TODAY WAS THE DAY THAT WE LEARNED HOW OPERATIONAL, WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS TRYING TO DO. HE WAS TRYING TO CREATE LEGITIMACY. THIS REALLY WAS A MULTIFACETED ATTEMPT. THEY STARTED AT THE COURTS, THEN THEY REALIZED THEY NEEDED COVER. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WAS THE BEST PLACE TO GET COVER. IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT BILL BARR DIDN'T WANT TO BE PART OF THIS, ALL OF A SUDDEN WE ARE IN THIS SITUATION WHERE THEY ENDED UP WITH A LOYALIST, THE CONGRESSMAN SCOTT PERRY, IT'S LIKE THE PRESIDENT HAD HIS OWN SORT OF TEAM TRYING TO MANEUVER AROUND FOLKS LIKE MR. ROSEN, THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL, THE GUESTS -- I GUESS THE WAY I WOULD DESCRIBE IT, THIS WORD HAS GOTTEN TURNED AROUND TOO MUCH, CLUE, BUT TODAY WAS THE DAY WHERE WE WERE RIGHT AT AN OPERATIONAL LEVEL. AND IN THAT MEETING, PRESIDENT TRUMP DECIDED NO, I AM FINE YOU GUYS, AND THEN THAT LETTER GOES OUT, AND WHILE THE LETTER ITSELF, IT WILL GET CONVOLUTED, IT'S THE LETTERHEAD. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WEIGHED IN. THAT WOULD HAVE HAD AN IMPACT, IT WOULD HAVE CREATED PHONY LEGITIMACY. IT WOULD HAVE GOTTEN MORE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE, WITH PEOPLE IN CONGRESS CARRYING THE --
