Warhammer Weekly 04072021 - Lumineth Realm Lords Review

hello everybody if it's wednesday it's warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of warhammer weekly joining me as always is the new convert to the power of lou and eth realm lords it's tom what's up buddy hello friends he has his own strange creature from another realm there [Music] [Laughter] yeah he's not small anymore he's clearly very excited to be in your lap right now yes uh also joining us good painter elf man now he that's right uh one of the great proponents of the luminesce for the longest time uh mr martin orlando we're good to have it back on the show buddy how you doing tonight it's an honor to be here thank you for having me uh yes those who had seven minutes uh you win that is in fact how late tom was today so congratulations to the seven minute pool uh you win congrats wait well done well done uh it was it was we got double whammy to buy tom tonight uh who who had both uh stuff he was waiting on his wife and then had technical issues so it was a real real good time but anyway just it just piled right up yes that's that's the quality that we promise you if you tune in every week every week this is the kind of quality we'll deliver we're going to be talking about lumineth realm lords tonight oh my goodness do we have a show for you tonight i am excited don't forget if you're watching at any point you like this like maybe you like tom's dog it's cute hit the like button it's great it helps people find the show so but first off let's of course start with the news tom uh so how about that uh that candles yeah it's a it's a this is now we're back to a death thing this is gonna be a vampire thing uh probably maybe like a new centerpiece thing well you know like maybe this is a piece of their centerpiece does that make sense wha what do you think martin um so hold on i'm pulling it up on um so i can see the chat and everything uh oh yeah so i said so i said it's it's there's like a checklist like um on what we do in the shadows there's a ghost checklist um so you got your candles yes you got your your smoke slash ectoplasm trail sculpted in hard plastic of course and you got and you got your your angular uh possibly ancient candelabra yes um you got ghosts i agree this is definitely a death thing uh we are back to aos here uh unusual that you have uh all the flames the candles being that melty they did they're doing a nice job they're really upping their candle sculpting candelabra flame game totally agree and this is night haunt i don't know how you see anything else but night on here we know that a night haunt hero is coming yeah true um this is night hunt okay all right i could be completely wrong and i would accept that as well sure but i'm pretty sure there's a night on yeah i love we got all these it's going to go to the next news item too we've got all these like single figures coming that i want to know when we're getting them like guardis and the new nighthawk guy and what we're about to talk about which is the next news item oh man let's talk about them witch hunters let's talk about those witch hunters so we're actually going to start on him because he was the first one spoiled but it's a father-daughter team uh tom tell us about why you're excited about the witch hunter squad uh it's because in the article they're like from the order of azir and i was like that's what i want to hear sure um that's the army that i want i mean i'm not gonna lie uh i've longed for the order of azir witch hunter warrior priest extremist army um that's why i'm excited but they're amazing looking like this father daughter makes i i just yeah so obviously they look dad and they literally daughter like they've walked in off the streets of mordheim uh they're great uh no doubt uh i continue to be not sure about the team's ability to paint female faces uh i've said before that i feel like the team should watch some makeup contouring videos and i stand behind that opinion um yeah they like i don't think she actually has a weird face i think that the paint is accentuating it in a weird way but anyways martin what do you think of these two yeah just to touch on that last point i think she's supposed to be much like much younger like me like late too late teens and i think the sculptors tried to go for a look that maybe the painters couldn't quite um like the heavy metal style leads to a very particular way of how the thing is the the faces are painted it's almost like um not quite cell shading like where you get sort of like that newer anime style like um you have two tones of color and then you have the hard outline where shadows might otherwise be which i think tends to lead to the um like the just the disconnect that we might have we're reading faces yeah she just doesn't have enough softness under eyes color over eyes to separate it yeah like this this paint line on her cheek is over accentuated this like these these have a name but like whatever this is is like way too dark i mean it's like if i pull it down my face down like that it's like that's the level of shadow she's got uh but but otherwise like i don't know how we're getting out of well i mean shipping schedules and and everything like notwithstanding i don't know how we get out of the next 12 months i'll say it that way without an order of azir army um i hope they are the sort of spiritual successor to britonia that uh obr is to tomb kings after effect that's just gonna make the storm cast that's too much of a slam dunk and it would look like the original art that was commissioned for what stormcast was yeah i mean but what you could actually have is you could have a mixed human storm cast army with the storm cast being the more nightly right yeah and then the humans being like order of azir correct we don't need an order of azir army like i do not think we're gonna get a new book you never i don't money on the table you're not gonna see battle tome order of azir sorry sure yeah it'll get added to it'll probably get added to the cities it'll be a subtraction in cities like uh like the darkling covens keyword or whatever i i had like had this whole i had this whole thing planned out actually like there's like so much for that then um i was like well what if you add what if you added like camelot style pageantry to some factions that have like so you mix sort of that that that that merlin knights of the round table vibe with van helsing so instead of having your your rather um heaven and hell sort of palette you you add back in that um that that nightly regalia into into your your your which because uh everything in warhammer is ultimately intended to have that color-coded pageantry because it's the agency of the of the hobbyist to paint however they want sure so you want to create your factions with this ability to be as colorful as possible um if if all of the kits that are part of the order of crazier end up not really deviating too much from this uh 40k inquisition or or a mordheim witch hunter vibe which kind of has a limited color palette then yeah it's not getting its own book yeah i mean exactly the way to do this is real simple okay it's a new city it's called the order of azir is the city and they're from azir okay and like that's where they're from they're the representative of that and of course they can have one in four storm cast like normal in fact maybe they can go farther like it could you could even see it where they're like two and four or something like that can be storm cast right half your army by count could be storm cast and [Music] you know that it'd be that easy to to do this kind of thing and would they roll out new models sure you could see some new models for it to be easy there's lots there's lots of stuff like this you can do you can have some relaunched warrior priests you can have some relaunched uh uh you know additional you got these new witch hunters you could have a flatulent type you could have other types of you know pseudo-religious figures right yeah like the altars and the warrior priests and all that stuff yeah we've lost all that and so all that kind of gets rolled into its own faction and man that'll sell like and you could have a sister's sigmar style aspect to it and it'd be great yeah yeah like exactly simple and it doesn't need to be like the inquisition where it's i mean it would have the same generic vibe that is to say that they're there to hunt down enemies but like part of the thing of the inquisition is they're they're not a very they're not a very heroic group of people like i know everybody loves eisenhorn and stuff right but they're all pretty terrible people okay i mean they get the job done let's be honest whereas this well i'm saying in 40k whereas in this you could actually have them be heroes right like one of the great things about age of sigmar is that we actually can't have heroes that doesn't mean they need to be perfect they can still have flaws flawed heroes are still heroes right and they would be the perfect mantle for that like humanity's best against monsters right yeah fighting with these like super soldiers on their side uh like look when you've got your avengers you've got thor but you also have black widow and hawkeye and that's fine you need the whole team what is it like the agents of shields yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah they are azir's agents of azir yeah this is this is this is a slam dunk folks slam dunk yeah i love both these very excited to get both of these that is a heck of a crossbow uh they're cool i'm sure their rules in aos will be terrible okay hey hey you shut your mouth i have hope because they're in broken realms that they're going to be good well based on the witch hunter we're about to talk about in their aos rules i am not sure that that's enough uh that hope is founded on anything uh i mean it's it's specialist games though right it's a different division it's like forged world getting more scrolls like there were scrolls but are they um continue your next news item tom hit me what do we got uh well it's the vampire warband pre-orders this week that's the next one but that's not what you wanted to do uh let's do scrolls and points for units in per city yeah they're all some of them don't even have a book keyword they're just death war scrolls like so they're clearly like waiting for something else to happen yeah let's break this into two categories broadly like this show isn't about discussing the cursed city wars roles but let's just break this broadly into two categories okay let's talk the good guys and the bad guys simple enough framing okay sure the good guys all about 100 or 110 points i shouldn't have said they're all bad that was hyperbole the ko dude is actually interesting because he's both a skyfarer and a marine and has actually a pretty cool unique ability to like shoot a blaster and then it can't go away from him so the ko guy i think is actually pretty cool uh he's barrack mordar i think right yeah i'm gonna stick him in a uh a we're all waiting i'm a gun hauler okay there's a gun hauler with the collapsible compartment i'm going to teleport it and i'm going to be like pal you ain't going to your archaeon you have to kill me first and then guardian count i'll do that he'll do that that's fine but that'll hold him for a turn absolutely just keeping archaeon out of the like you joke but keeping archaeon out of the game in some of these armies for even one turn would basically mean those lists lose the game like yeah if he's not an architect or something yeah then then they lose because oftentimes those like archeon lists tend to be so centered on him just kicking teeth every single round that they often don't score what they need to win until like round four or five so if you just literally stop him from going somewhere for a turn it can be the game uh so no the ko dude is good this ends the list everybody else is like whatever so let's not yeah i mean i think that saying it's bad i don't think capture is actually the issue you're right you know you you said it elsewhere the issue is it's boring correct like the tech and which is worse than being bad yes because it's just uninteresting and it could have just been if some lorem text on so many of the units i think it's now here's what could save them okay here's what could save all of them if you gave me rules for olfancarn the city and made it a city of sigmar sure like post redemption like if these heroes win at the end of cursed city and we get a city of wolfenhorn but like death is still there and maybe like somehow you can have one in four death units or something or i don't know whatever something interesting like then you have to right like i could i could see playing these i like that the problem is that most of the scrolls are just like not only are they not competitive which is fine like whatever that's i i admit i was being jokey right that was specifically for doug i hope he watches this back i'm talking to you doug um since i know that'll drive him completely insane that i said it that way um no i agree with you the issue is there there's nothing they could have done interesting stuff give you a simple example because we kind of talked about this a little bit when you and i were chatting right one of the leaders could have been like uh you know gave a bonus to flatulence or something like plus one to hit for flatulence that are that are within a radius whatever right they could have had that doesn't make that doesn't make flatulence good no but it creates a a design thread that will pull you that direction right and makes me want to go yeah i kind of want to run those cool because if you already like flagellance you're like neat now i want to use this guy i've got a cool way to buff my flagellance i make and like cities is really a power pair book right that's why i'm pushing that because when you look at the way cities is constructed it's like do you like elves cool take some elves and then take the guy on dragon who leads the elves those go together well do you like dwarves cool take the take the dwarves you like and the rune lord that makes those dwarves better right like that's the nature of the city's book it's just this power pair book yeah if i may just add and and this is just a question like i don't know if anyone who can say has an answer like i didn't really read any of the scrolls after i saw the pitch battle profile well you have to take the entire retinue of the bad guys that aren't bodies as one pitch battle profile now at first i thought um it's sometimes these pitch battle profiles are based on the screws that you can buy like the boxes and i was looking inside the box like from unboxing videos i don't i don't own the box and it's like well that i guess that makes sense because all of the hero screws are kind of on their own like um silver tara was like that you had the the individual ones which is why they were able to be sold individually later um and that was true except for the fact that uh reticuar is his own sprue and i'm like so i no longer understand why this decision was made and i have a guess but continue let's finish yeah yeah yeah i'm almost done and the other thing was is like i looked at the keywords so it's like okay the zombies and the skeletons don't have updates in them updates are probably coming in the soul blight battle tone that's fine um but the other ones they just have the ga death keyword they don't have a sublight uh or specifically like they don't have the legion's affiliates keyword is what i'm looking for yeah so it's like i i don't understand the purpose of them having these rules um now war cries another another thing like um and i'm sure that they will not like you can't take them all as one set in war cry so that might be where you get more longevity out of these models anyway but i i really would have preferred if you could have taken some of the stuff piecemeal because that's what most people are gonna do anyway sure so let's let me touch on the death side now so like i said with the order side i feel that the missed opportunity wasn't to make them competitive i honestly don't want them to be so because i wouldn't want to see all these weird heroes locked away in a very expensive box suddenly be like the hottest new thing you have to find that's not going to help the secondary market any no issues there i would have liked to see them try to make other older less used units interesting through fun synergies and stuff like that for one hero like have them all do different things or interact with troops it's just kind of an interesting way because then people who do like that again there's no competitive breaking to that it's not driving the market crazy no one's out all we all got to get uh you know jealous and derek or whatever you know like that's not what it's what's happening um but it it allows for people who really want to have a cool force to have a cool force so that's order the death side i think the answer is much simpler they wrote this stuff before the soul black gravel arts book was finished because originally these were supposed to come out way not so close to each other like this this box was supposed to release in like october of last year or something like that yeah right yeah so it's way off schedule and clearly there was meant to be more distance in between this and soul blight gravelers so they just used the old scrolls it's the old existing scrolls and they were like well rather than worry about trying to figure out how these things should be pointed or will fit in their current form or whatever into the book where they're gonna basically fit into legions right now that's where you would use them they're just like we'll just put one big price on them that'll dissuade their sort of use right now in a book we're all about in a book we're literally about to throw in the trash anyways right you keep it yeah keep it to curse city and then we'll get new points and new new scrolls in the month the so the two things i would add is this uh the first is that i think that they are um i disagree with you about the heroes because they're on their own sprues they could have been released separately like the other silver tower heroes were sure like so if they were written with like rules that people wanted they have the freedom to actually release them in their own clan packs yeah well for a cursed study they're actually not they're a different colored plastic but they're on two screws so are they yes yeah that doesn't mean no interesting that doesn't mean they couldn't put out a box of all the heroes heroes of all from karna yeah the heroes of wolfencarn box could come out it'd be a single sprue box like it could be done okay so yes of course they could release them of course they could um i'm just saying they're not going to release them individually right after the box and if these rules made them real super sweet and suddenly hyper competitive it just wouldn't have been a good situation especially when the production isn't keeping up right now i agree and actually i think that that's why we got the clustering of all the death units together my theory is that they couldn't point they couldn't effectively point to vampire spawn at four or three vampires spawn at 40 points or wherever they would need to be with without breaking list building you know if you have suddenly like the minimum cost for many armies is like in that like 80 to 100 point range sometimes they go as low as 60 but very rarely you know they couldn't point those things at 80 points because they're really not worth that and so if they did them at 40 points suddenly like they're now competing with the spare command point or endless spells and they could really find themselves in a position where they're essential to a lot of death lists because they're just the that extra 40 points that you can throw in there and the reality is is that they don't want to force that and i think that that's a wise decision and so the way you dissuade that is you just lump them in with other stuff as one big take yeah i mean all in all like this isn't the point of the show so i don't want to go down this rabbit hole but but here's what i'll close with my my answer would be i agree with everything you said tom but we know like by all accounts let me say it this way we're getting a new zombie scroll in soul blight grave lords getting a new skeleton scroll in slopes soul bite gravelers many of these leaders and stuff and units will show up in soul blight gravelords and so we'll probably have a new scroll and in that we'll probably have their own individual like their own individual prices to be taken alone right um i doubt they'll keep them all grouped as one massive 680 point group in there plus then we'll be months on from kirk city and at some point they probably will do like the heroes of wolf and carn box or the villains of wolf and carnbox especially if we eventually get a city of wolfencarn released somehow right right if that shows up in a later broken realms book then of course the box they would release with that like if broken realms 4 has alvin karn redeemed or something or whatever right then all of a sudden you're going to get the the box release that comes with that is going to be like the heroes of wolven card ken can we just pause for a moment and reflect on the reality that a year and a half ago a year ago we were pontificating about the desire that man they should just release cities for every realm sure and now we're getting them yeah it's great and like we're getting that folks like let's celebrate that we have the death city now olfa carn we have a heist city from broken realms like it's gold man like i couldn't have asked for something more amazing yeah we have an another a new ashi city and a new uh i'm sorry and a um uh realm of shadow city yes so yeah right on it just when all the way down and i say keep the train rolling more cities keep it keep it going it's an endless expansion all right what else uh speaking of that i'll just hit another news item real quick while we're on the the or the cursed city thing because i know this is in there is they also publish free rules for a war cry uh campaign uh using the the curse city stuff which was great just put out the pdf uh they they said here you go you want to run a campaign with your your curse city stuff here's the rules for war cry have a good time i love when they do stuff like this i love when they add other rules to allow us to use our toys in more ways a plus work there thank you for putting that together i don't i don't was that sam who put that all together i'm not sure um but whoever it was great stuff great deeply good job sam yeah yep if that was him whomever was responsible a plus work please keep doing that love it all right um other news uh as i mentioned we have the vampire warband pre-orders dropping this week and that is exciting oh my god those guys are beautiful and i know they're like already people are just like you know that there is no speaking of things not having enough copies there is no way they will have enough copies of that vampire under world tour band this will be like the big that like the best-selling underworld tour band of all time you mean are not vampire tour band yeah that one i mean four vampire lords in a box vampire word and i'm turning that into two separate projects on its own yeah of course you are yeah does that make sense yeah totally it is it is yeah it's a kit basher's dream you can you can get so much so much mileage will be get out of that box i will not be surprised if it shows up in like aos 28 pages equivalent stuff yeah it's just everything you could want is in there there is no way that any of bat hair vampire lady sells okay like you know i'm talking about like the new vampire lord that's coming vampire bat hair lady okay i know all about vampire bat lady why in the universe of all that is warhammer would you be like well i could use vampire bad hair lady who's fine like she's fine okay she's up or i could use one of these four like ultra badasses right like it is inconceivable to me that you would make that choice i just i i cannot get it uh but i can't teach there i can't wait for their vampire palooza war scroll or it's for vampire lords for 400 plus points sure that's one pitch battle profile you'll be talking about that next week there you go can't wait yeah i i agree with goobs who said bat hair lady needed to come out first yes absolutely you don't you don't you don't it's like it's like an opening act versus the main band right like you don't you don't have the rolling stones come on stage and open for like your your local dad rock band that's not how it works it's got to be the other way around what why do you gotta hate on bat lady vince i don't hate on her as i said very clearly she's fine that was very the underworld warbands are all the those bottles are amazing they are pure 11's there is a difference between fine a perfectly good sculpt nothing wrong with it and pure unadulterated metal right which is the difference we're talking about here okay like i'm sorry some things are just incredible and these are four truly amazing sculpts that's the bottom line it's fair that's fair um so we'll move on to our last news item uh big shake-up drop today uh a number of positions got announced at gw including a lead developer position i given that we've spent how many weeks on design and development shows in the last four weeks three of the four weeks um that's the fastest job creation i've ever seen no i mean look joking aside we have been talking about the need for a formal developer role for two years that's that is legitimately true i went back and looked when we first started talking about it um i i i am not sure that this role is actually doing exactly what i would construct it to be doing i think it actually feels more like a product owner uh role right uh than than how it's construed under development that being said it seems like it's an ecosystem owner like it owns the entire of that involves design and development yeah i mean my guess is it's a development lead don't they have that already tom there are yes there is that there is an overall ecosystem manager yes well well when i say eco i'm talking about the rules ecosystem pretty good i have a product manager they have a you know like they have the other leads and so um but gw management is a spider web not a ladder it is it is a very strange indecipherable sort of web way uh that being said i am beyond excited about this i love seeing this post this made me so happy uh i'm so glad that they're hiring this position i made my my statement that i stand behind 100 i like i quote tweeted uh pete foley intentionally uh who was obviously the head over book and box games and like there's a reason i quote i quote tweeted him one because i wanted him to see my exact thoughts on it and two because my thoughts are very positive i think they should hone this position in and make them laser focused on execution refinement and efficiency and focusing of the system into smoothing out the bumps what the quality of the work we have been getting has been top-notch in almost all cases exempting there's always these few proud nails and they can often derail a book whether that be the points being incorrect when they come out or a unit being out of whack or having too many you know like being a bad design the the books are 95 98 fantastic the problem is it only takes one rotten apple to spoil the bunch right and this role should be laser focused on achieving a product of the highest quality okay as somebody who does this professionally like this is my normal day job you don't get to just say well this defect that would block entire workflows or a user in the system is just okay because 99.8 of the program works fine that's true but we that like you cannot let the problem is there's been too many sev1 and sev2 defects going out the door in books and this person should be absolutely laser focused in on that right that's the quality that we want to see and you're so close you're so close and i for one uh think this person has a big job ahead of them but i wish them all the best uh whoever whomever they may be absolutely i'm i'm stoked that this is going to exist and uh i think that uh it it's something that we've talked about a long time and i'm excited that um that that it's getting the attention that it needs yeah yep any thoughts you applying martin um no i look forward to saying hi to them when i'm on vacation at warhammer world absolutely regardless if it's if it's someone i know on this side of the pond or otherwise uh yeah i i they should let people they should let if they really want top talent for this they should let someone do it remotely they need to expand they need to relax their their b and nottingham policy let me just they used to have like a u.s studio but this is like already almost before i was in the hobby and like when i was a kid in like the mid-2000s like they had like us like yeah and but yeah it's already decades ago that yeah so much has changed covet should have taught them that they don't need people in the building to do this role i mean the i work with multiple teams set like who are literally all over the world and uh we do it every day and it's just fine technology is amazing it is absolutely great and uh i appreciate that boobs as you're saying is inciting insurrection um no there there is one more news item if we if we actually like i don't know if we care or not um the the broken rum story yeah go for it go ahead what i don't know which one i have that's the last one i read was there a new one uh the obr one yeah yeah it was okay it was fine that was it there's my there's my read of it it was fine yes yeah just didn't that guy die i i don't remember it's been a while i mean they are dead people so it's fine um yeah it was okay uh the yes so we all look forward to welcoming tom to the developer role who i'm sure will be submitting his application uh in short order and and in no way would have any kind of headwind against him for getting such a position i'm just gonna keep my mouth shut okay uh anything else any other new stuff we got here tom oh no i think that's it all right news complete uh i gotta bring up my time stamps while we go to the next uh well we go to the next item sorry okay so uh let's talk uh some pick of the week guys uh so martin what would you like to share with everybody um i have two picks one because it would be just um irresponsible of me to not plug the event that i'm volunteering to help run um so that would be the atlantic city open um tickets i believe are almost sold out i don't have the exact numbers i talked to recent uh kicker at frontline like every few days to keep an eye on like where we are with numbers um and it's it's still like catches catch can uh like it's it's tough like someone has to be like first um in terms of like first coming back for events sure um yeah we're keeping an eye on guidelines for like who can come into the state um but things things are definitely trending in the right direction um there's a link on facebook the atlantic city open specifically for aj sigmar which i am the to for um big thanks to uh sean feather of the basement ward games club out of philadelphia who is um providing judge experience um vcp help and all that jazz and my parents who are also going to be volunteering to help out and like just herd cats as needed um since june 11th to the 13th uh we are only going to be doing a two-day event this year like a five round sort of the standard tournament um so unlike the 12th and 13th at harrah's resort in atlantic city uh there will be prize support both provided by frontline gaming as well as yours shirley we currently have the cap at 60 players again we're close to selling out on that i do not have an exact number um and i uh if there is sort of like an opening like if as as restrictions change possibly as we get closer to the event where people get vaccinated um uh there may be an opening of spots i can't can't vouch for that so it's like if you're thinking about it um there's generally like generous like uh cancellation policies on especially on the hotel which is going to be more than one ticket price like i just reserved my hotel uh this evening uh just for so i can stay the night and and help run the event um and i believe i can cancel up to 72 hours advance which is pretty good um and that's my first pick was aco second pick which um uh uh an artist um on twitter and instagram her name is paulina um on uh twitter um as i think it's polly p-o-l-i-9 a-n-d-r for will it's just like an underscore uh she will be linked by the way yeah yes um she is an artist out of russia and truly one of the more interesting warhammer fan artists i've ever seen because her medium varies so widely uh recently she did a watercolor she scanned a watercolor picture of skagra the king and you can tell it's watercolor and canvas and it just looks amazing um she's she's also been helping me bring my homebrew luminous house to life as i posted today um pictures of the uh the heroes uh that she's done for me um she actually she she's so curious about the lore because she's like she dabbles in all aspects of warhammer properties but like fantasy the fantasy site is new to her and she when she takes like a job uh she asks if you can provide like a little bit of backstory and the more the better she just she just gobbles it up she's really eager and curious and um if you're not following her work uh please do so uh she is out this week having some sort of um i think some uh uh a surgery for her eye she had like an eye condition um and i hope she she recovers quickly from that and she's just doing fantastic work nice i'll link it down below all right tom what do you got buddy uh i'm gonna spruk uh friend of the show aos coach um coach did a a nice little tight video on what is a triumph and i i appreciated it and so i want you to check it out it's a lot of it is just uh coach just kind of talking about this this little corner of our game right and triumphs are important because they actually end up showing up in like rule books as part of battle tombs first stuff like ko so um it's i appreciate it it was a nice kind of like overview video of an area of the game that not a lot of people having not a lot of knowledge about fantastic uh i'll stay on brand for tonight which is uh my pick tonight is going to be for the cult of paint uh henry and andy who uh andy recently put up a really great video about his luminous realm lords that he's working on and it has links out to how to paint them and stuff like that in it but that's not what the video itself is about the video itself is about the challenge of painting an army and andy is one of the best painters in the world i mean he's an absolutely incredible artist and it he goes through the challenge he's had with painting this army just literally sitting down and putting the time in for him somebody who paints you know basically every day who does incredible work who wins golden demons and yet still finds it very difficult to just put in the time to paint an army and i thought it was really awesome the way he shared kind of the challenge that he's had with it and you know the tricks that he has and where he finds the motivation and and the blocks that he has i highly recommend watching it if you've ever felt like you have problems finishing your army and you're alone or that like artists of a certain level just don't have this that's nonsense um absolutely check out this video it is uh absolutely illuminating i think into into how everybody at every level of the hobby uh has those challenges and how you can overcome them so there you go he also put up a bunch of good luminous tutorials as part of the call to paint youtube channel exactly yeah and that video has the links out to those so that's why this is like a really great starter video because hopefully it motivates you over your painting block and then you can just go straight to the tutorials for how to do sweet luminesce if you get inspired by the show tonight uh all right awesome uh so let's uh let's go to some hobby time guys all right hobby time martin what are you working on man all right so um i have been working on uh some spearmint and archers um that's gonna come up at least a little bit on camera um just like a little bit i'm not going to be able to finish them tomorrow because um just want to get them painted enough that they can be glued to their painted bases and go in my figure case so i can use them like in games instead of them being like on wine corks and stuff i am taking them out to um my own version of vincy khan uh hanging out with strength hammer himself chuck moore uh playing games uh staying safe out out at um his humble abode uh yeah and just and making up for lost time as it were uh so that's that's generally what i've been working on and as soon as those are done i will get to uh the rest of my luminous army i have like a few lists i want to kind of build towards um and i do have a deadline now of even though i'm going to be the to for summerslaughter uh the first event that i will be playing in is in mid-august called summer slaughter uh and uh yeah that's also run by the basement war gamers and i'd like to try and have a fully painted army for that event nice nice i feel like tom what you been working on brother uh putting my knight hunt away and moving back to my ko okay we're back to we're back to the dwarfs again that's all right i just i i like i [Music] i have a lot of projects and my hobby addd is real sure um and so i've been working on some ko and it's been good okay uh for myself uh i finished up my twin souls i've got 10 twin souls all ready to go uh so there's one of them right there they're in that same uh scheme as the rest of my mortal slinesh only the i have basically the big boy left glutos is sitting back there once he's done that's basically the last unit that i actually have right now although i did or a unit order a unit of the uh kangaroos that i'm going to turn into slick blade seekers that i'm going to pervert and bring over to the land of slaanesh just for a second unit of those which i think will be just a fun little conversion project sometime i can do just for for the laughs um but what i'm and then so got them those 10 twin souls took forever i am never going to paint them again but i'm betting hard on twins betting hard on them good solid unit of 10 nice units uh i'm just betting on them coming down like 50 points and then they'll be a good unit i'm ready to go i'll be i'll be planning for the future meta uh but i'm working on some tutorials and stuff this week and uh and then then it'll be time to crack into the fat boy the centerpiece old glutos himself uh who will not glucose will not be appearing in this film it'll be a different model but that's okay all right so speaking of fallen elves let's talk about luminous realm lord shall we gentlemen are you ready you ready to think about this all right so luminesce realm lords 2021 before we get into the presentation yes of course we have a presentation like of course we do come on now right i wanted to start with some high level views martin we're going to start with you you're the guest um first of all i would like to point i um i'm bad at searching through my own tweets but there was a tweet i think right after broken realms tech list was announced and it's like just a prelude before we get into parsing like the the positives and negatives um i'm glad this exists um there was a point in time where i thought uh games workshop was kind of washed their hands of high elves as ridiculous as uh those may think given where we are now i'm glad this exists um because the alternative would be like we only have evil elves and wicked are like just it's it's nice to have this sure um yeah um uh there's some soaring highs and surprising unfortunate lows but i don't think that changed that this is a robust book with a lot of good tools um and um i think that's the best way to put just like the high notes because everything else i have in terms of my own notes on it are probably best saved for when we're parsing certain things sure i think i'll leave it at that let me let me do answer a question that came up in the comments that's real important which is is this going to contain any spoilers from the lore no no there will be zero spoilers tonight we are not talking about the lore next week's show is going to be about broken realms teclas the other armies and we will cover the narrative next week at the end of the show and it will be tagged and you will know it's coming there will be no spoilers or anything of that kind tonight if i may add um the lore that's um that's unrelated to the actual narrative of broken realms that's added into um because like if you buy broken realms text lists i have it on my phone these are like pages that are just slotted in to the full luminous tone um it does feel like a truly robust faction now regardless of those narrative events so um i i i think that's just the the best way to put it like you can pick up uh battle term luminous rum lords and not have broken rums tecla spoiled for yourself right yep totally fair okay tom tell us about your over like high level with the second release what do you think of the army and uh why are you now getting into the army and playing it um if i know that uh a lot of my critique up until this point has focused on the aesthetics of the army sure um if you'll remember back to our first review of the first battle tome one of my critiques my critique of the the reason why like the aesthetics you can fix ultimately the that's just conversions that's just hobby that's fine uh my critique was that it was too like monolithic like it was too uni-directional in how the design was you either had to spam archers and spearmen or you and all you know cows and hammers um and neither of those play styles really interested me and so that's why i said initially it's i'm not gonna do the book because it's too unidimensional um that is something i cannot say anymore sure um this is one of the most robust busy and i mean that both positively and in some sense in a as a critique of any of the battle times we've seen in recent history it's playing in every phase it can do that in multiple ways it's very reminiscent in that sense of like old school uh like turn of edition storm cast like moving into second edition right when we got the storm cast like the new uh sequiturs and all the wizards and everything because storm guests were suddenly playing in every phase again right and and very much this book feels that way it's playing in all the phases it has lots of toys lots of options lots of build permutations um and as a johnny style player i love that like so like i love having options i bought a list um right when i got my hands on the book and immediately like i fell in love with the list and the irony is that like it has no duplicate units right it has like eight war scrolls or nine war scrolls or something silly and zero duplicate units um and i love that like i loved what it gave me and so from a rule standpoint i'll say that it's amazingly diverse um and it's in the mental the mental load on the player is very high yep that would be my critique um but uh but i think that it's uh more than i think it's ever been it will be a true powerhouse competitively okay all right i i agree with all that but i think for my summary i will say that i think they did a mostly good job there are some elements of bad design and npe in here and i think the thing i would reiterate tom is that i think the skill floor on this army is the highest skill floor we've ever seen and that as i'm about to say this is the first uh blue control army we've ever had so with that let's get into that sweet power point shall we yeah let's get that powerpoint going there we go that's what we all came for we came for that sweet sweet powerpoint action all right so because it's gonna sum up my thoughts here's sort of my army overview because i like i'm the one who wrote the powerpoint so there you go okay to me this is a very high skill floor elite army that can play in all faces the first real blue control army we've seen in age of sigmar things have already said yeah uh by that for those not familiar with magic the gathering famously blue is the color of control it is uh a color it is a a blue deck wins the classic we'll talk about that in just a moment but it is an army that is all about interfering with your opponent's plans as much as it is about advancing any plan of your own right i get to play with my toys you don't get to play with your toys correct uh strengths it is definitely a magic dom whether it be through teclas or other potential avenues it has extremely high mobility now which was a weakness before but that has moved over into a different column for lots of different reasons but the huracan being chief among them it definitely has power projection it can be whether it be teclas or sentinels or the ballasty or whatever uh it can absolutely disrupt the enemy's plans it has very strong enemy disruption it does have solid defenses those can be ramped up especially if you're in something like sire uh it does have lots of unique tech pieces and capabilities like there are multiple abilities in this army that no other army in the game has no other scroll anywhere has which is interesting and you can get lots and lots of command points that's unexpected but hey there's that new that's new surprise yeah weaknesses it is a very complicated army and if you play wrong you can lose right right um you don't really have any true hammer in the army probably the closest is like 30 wardens jacked up on their their uh their spell i mean that's pretty good hammer avalanor fully buffed up like not losing profile like he can do some work even those guys are still pretty easy to disrupt like yes at like the mountains can be very swingy yes it is hard to get them off of their top profile you're absolutely right but there's nothing in this army that you can just go like that's definitely gonna remove the thing in front of me okay i mean archer it's like a huge block of 30 wardens if you wonder even though i'm not going to get there i i still do the damage yeah no i i i think what he's getting at is um someone can't look at an army list and say that's going to um extinguish whatever it charges correct and that's okay sure that's exactly what you thank you there's no there's no earth guard berserker unit here there's no earthquake berserker there's no ghoul king on terror guys there's no mega boss on ma crusher or you know unit of six pigs ramped up with a with a uh uh a go in lads get stuck in and a war chan or buff right or whatever pick your pick your explosive unit that generally in this game like there are units in this game that you can just shoot at things and be like nothing will survive this right like because they're so they're so pushed down to like hit on twos re-rolling ones off you know sometimes causing mortal wounds sometimes not you know sometimes piling in multiple times blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah all the things that make hammers hammers right and uh and that just doesn't exist here that isn't to say they can't hit hard there are certainly units in this that can hit hard i completely agree you mentioned the mountain you mentioned we talked about 30 wardens they're there right but they're both one of the interesting things about those is those are both fairly slow right comparatively right all right okay so everybody both you agree with my what my overview have i said i think i'm agreeing with you out there i would agree with your point yeah okay i as just a quick let's we will hit on power later i think this is one of the top performing armies in the meta right now i would put this in like the top six or so armies okay as far as its capabilities and what it would do i think it is powerful it is not beyond but it i would put it like number five or six i think that things like seraphin are still beating it probably doc are still beating it you know like i think there are there are multiple armies we could get in the argument exactly what's above it on average but i think those would be above it martin what are your thoughts on that yeah yeah so um we generally have accepted sort of um stats for for how we track like like win rates and whatnot and i think with an army like this more so than than any other it's important not just to look at win percentages is when we do return to events um and because of the high skill requirement for an army like this um people may see the army overall at a lower end win rate but then see it like um reaching top tens or higher yeah because because it will be i don't want to use the term dragged down but that's literally what is going to be happening no one would expect if you looked in the data you'd see a bifurcated wind pattern determined by players yes player skill is probably way more determinative of how this army performs than a lot of other armies yes that's really determinative anyways tune in in two weeks to learn more anyways uh stop stop it stop it we'll talk about that later um but uh what what i would say is that um it's a lot it's not like daughters of kate right daughters are clean like i could just be like go go my pretties and just push them forward and they kill everything they touched yeah um and so but with this army i think that it's it's really going to matter who's who's piloting it yes and it will respond very well to high skill players so matt in the chat asks is it really high skilled though when so many things happen for almost free yes a thousand percent because this army is actually rather fragile it doesn't tend to have a huge number of bodies like if you if you position things badly if you use your pennies at the wrong time if you fail to catch the spells you need are in the right order that you need if you fail to sort of have your right tech pieces acting in the way they do it will fall apart on you like that's the challenge now a highly skilled player that manipulates all of these levers in the right way is going to play a very hard to beat symphony okay like when mozart rocks up on this piano uh it is going to be a really really really powerful song right uh and and will be robust and we'll be able to to take hits and all that kind of stuff right because they will have already done everything they will be using all of their tools in exactly the right way to weaken disrupt and de-power your army and your plans and that is why npe with a bullet is the last item because this army will drive players insane insane regardless i love with the new book we've just resolved that um that dark son of doom i forget what it's called um total eclipse total eclipse is just simply a feature of the army now yeah like it's not a spell on their list it's a it's an army feature that they're just gonna rotate through with two wizards yeah sure you can actually do that yeah i one of the first things i did when i built a list which i had to i'll have to i'd have to change the list somehow because it wasn't exactly legal but that's fine um for for reasons we'll talk about later but you could build a very different version of it that is legal that i i shared with you tom the legal version and it's called how to lose yeah how to lose friends and alienate people okay just like the worst and and people will run that kind of thing right and it will be horrible to play against and they're gonna win and people are gonna hate every minute of it it'll be like when vince you walked away from the table when we matched up at an event and you're just like finish your turn okay yeah we're gonna play touch yeah with this stupid play touched army yes yeah like that's the point arguably here's the thing even if you lose like even if that is to say even if the opponent wins if they beat the lrl they will often walk away going yay i won that game was terrible that's a real challenge in this army because that's the classic that's why i say this is a blue deck blue decks well and that's yeah keep going that like blue or what what's now basically like a mid-range like i hate playing those decks because it's just boring right like like because what their game plan is is to make you do nothing until they get their win condition yeah like that like that's their game plan and this this army is not a lot different right [Music] okay let's let's get into it we'll we'll we've got a lot of slides yeah we don't let's let's talk about why i think there's such a high skill floor this is going to directly answer that question so there is a large number of once per game abilities okay uh more than a dozen sprinkled throughout the book in the war scrolls and various other things abilities that can only be triggered once per game that is a large number of things you have to remember to use and using them at exactly the right moment holding them keeping the pieces safe until you can use them till maximal effect requires a pretty decent amount of skill like when you can pop a thing once and it needs to be in the right combat or the right thing to swing the game you know get it wrong you you're done for right many abilities have multiple triggered layers in addition as has been off-joked is like the most commonly written two words in this book like the number of abilities that are like it does this fairly obvious thing okay in addition right this other stuff also that seems completely unrelated got jacked into this rule because we realized that if we just actually wrote them all out as individual rules it would look like every scroll had 18 different abilities so instead we just squish them together and call it in addition right many of your abilities are either used during an enemy player's turn during their actions are directly affecting their actions are you know like are they're off turn it's classic blue deck like draw card tap nothing your turn drago right like you got a lot of this type of stuff okay um some units can be fragile if not protected used properly like this is the sentinel conundrum right like sentinels are super powerful no doubt about it they're amazing but like if you don't protect them properly and you let some if you let those those even like three pigs or six pigs come screaming into them you might as well just pick that unit up they're going and just just one pig really sure like they're gonna get blown right off the board that's not a challenge at all right they can't penny themselves out of that okay and so what all that amounts to is that every resource in this book has to be used at the right time for maximum effect which is why i say uh a really high skill player that is that is like you know really dancing on the keys of this army it's going to be terrible to play against you seem right gentlemen did i miss anything there um no yeah i i i um it's it's a it's a mind game for both for both parties because i've seen other reviews um constantly say well like imagine this thing in cr imagine this thing with aether court stop or something like that it's like almost the the the worst goal you were reading is almost constantly in flux when i walk up to the table at an event and show someone my army list they will have to understand that basically everything in the army can have these stat or ability changes combined with interrupts reactions and it's like it's not going it does not do what it says on the cover right yeah so yeah and so matt said i feel like high memorization versus tedious first of all those aren't mutually exclusive you can have both like that's a false dichotomy number one number two i agree with you boc is a high skill floor army i actually do think beast of chaos is a high skill for me the problem is it's a high skill floor just because you have to use every piece in exactly the right way because you're on a knife edge or you just die right because the army has like is is a bunch of people made of paper with a bravery negative four right yeah um they're made of paper until i say they're not for a little while and that could be key yeah this army you look at something think of the very simple choice that is literally like the basic function of this army that's probably too good but there it is and that's either quartz right we're not even going to put it in sire every unit has one penny when and what you use that penny on using it for the right spell at the right time on your wizard or the right unit in the right phase to get the right save to stay alive for one round when you need it to to move the numbers right knowing when you're getting attacked all of that stuff is the skill i'm talking about okay like aether quartz isn't a fire and forget thing it can turn the game when used properly and it can be nothing when you use it wrong yeah right like low skill players will rock up in this army they'll look at their aether courts they'll get a big charge with their wardens they'll pop the plus one to hit and be like yay and they'll chop the crap out of something and that and they'll they will have killed that unit and that will be completely irrelevant to that to the winning of that game right right and in the end the extra like five six wounds you did because that plus one to hit didn't matter at all right right right because you've just misused that resource that's my point right okay nope sorry yeah it's a control army it's blue deck wins right that's what this is you're putting up things that are going to disrupt their movement or or in some kind of ways you're using your units to disrupt them using your spells to disrupt them you're using every like you're you're firing off total eclipse every round to keep them so they can't use their command points right right right that's that's this army it's blue deck wins and i don't need to hit yeah penalties to hit everywhere this army loves an egg one to hit if you're fighting luminescent you don't have neg one to hit i i don't know what's going on they're not doing it yeah right line of sight that doesn't matter if you're hiding behind rocks they're going to shoot like they're going to ignore the rules and do what they need to do to win yeah uh so tp grant said i watched this exact thing happen at a game store last weekend a new lrl player didn't understand the army and got rinsed yeah sure yeah i'll believe that absolutely right yep and the the trick with that is it's like if you win you know you tom you and i played magic for years and years and if you hand somebody brand new to magic or newer to magic a control deck it's hilarious right now they're like you can steam this is terrible i hate this right because it's just it's like you you have to know you have you have a limited number of resources and you need to disrupt the most important things they do right right that's what it is it's a blue deck wins right and it is truly resource management is how you win with this army yep which is why i hate it and would never play this army this is the opposite of the army type i enjoy i don't like play i don't like i i don't like playing against it and i don't like playing i would never play it or pilot it uh yeah well they have my attention not sure and i i hope i hope you don't feel bad when we eventually have our rematch no of course not i'll be hap martin i would play you with any army you wanted to bring to the table but you're it's always very much fun playing you martin so yes thank you me on the other hand vince would pass yeah tom that's a hard pass i'll play martin twice that's what i'll do tom will rock up and i'll be like no go leave i'm gonna play martin again there you go okay so uh all right so let's actually get into the meat of this thing uh allegiance abilities so there's no new generic abilities other than the two sub-factions right uh which your new scenario ability i have no idea if i spelled any of these words right like i think i did but i checked you're good oh awesome thank you i was just i was literally doing those words off of memory and i'm terrible at that so hey there you go and it's not like it's not like powerpoint's going to tell me it's wrong right no good job okay so cenari now we'll have cenari are your your wizard folks like your cenari cathalar and your uh yeah those people paintbrush guy and uh loremaster yep exactly and and the twins the twins so all those four people have this ability called contemplate wherein they can choose to not cast a spell for a round and then the next magic phase they can auto cast a single spell on a nine what that should read is they will auto cast total eclipse next round next round yeah you just take two of these guys one of them is always contemplating one of them's not and they just total eclipse off every round and so you may get a sp you may be able to spend command points turn one but after that if you can't unbind them you will no longer be able to use command points in that game or at least very rarely well like yeah yes like you'll be at double cost i'm being flippant when i say you don't you can't use them but yeah uh you will be heavily taxed so it's like death and taxes it is like death and taxes which is a deck i played anyways which is funny uh at any rate uh and then the huracan which is your uh your new monkey king wind rider the flying foxes and the the wind riders their ability is they can pile in any direction when they pile in they get three extra inches and they can fly when they pile in uh a single rule that breaks three rules that's ridiculous uh yeah three rules um i do not like this sam i am uh this is way too many rules broken i i don't mind the plus three inches in the fly i think that's what they should have stopped at honestly like if that had been the thing i would have been fine that would have been correct that would have felt right like because they could jump way around things and stuff like that and the uh the but the pile in any direction opens up so much jank like and and like we'll we'll get into the jank later of of really exploring just how gross this can be but the fact that you you can just go whatever direction you want and by the way all these guys have three-inch range weapons right so they can always just like come into you you complete the charge and then pile out to the three-inch line so at minimum they're like at bare mins they're completely minimizing how many of the enemy gets to fight them back right because they can pull all back if they wanted to all back but one model at the three inch mark and make it so you can only get one to three models into that one model right and they can do that forever because they just just keep doing it every turn uh and that's and that's it and that's a best case scenario for you it can be worse yeah this is like could be so much worse yeah on this slide i have my editor's note my editor's note is that with the addition of cenari and huracan and and now all of the individual types venari sonari uricon and alerth having their own rules okay this is the only like this that means luminesce have a type bonus set of rules like skaven gitz and boc right they have uh strong generic allegiance abilities like the best books like aether courts and fight with two units instead of one every time they activate like very strong allegiance abilities and full sub-faction rules yeah they have three layers of free rules correct they are the only book there's only one other book that has sort of this and they're actually missing this middle piece okay which is strong generic allegiance rules okay and that's boc which is ironic right um but my point being is that there are three different layers of rules laid down on every scroll in this book yeah it's it's amazing oh from yeah from a list building standpoint yes that's what i would say i it's it makes them unique like skaven have typified rules and pretty good allegiance but no sub-factions right right gets sort of have typified rules under the bad moon effectively right like yeah and then they don't really have sub-factions unless you're like doing an all-in goofy army right like like uh you know maws of jewelry or something like that or the spider army again not those are bad i think moz of york is one of the greatest armies in the history of warhammer and everybody should be playing moz of jork um but like my point is they nailed all three of those layers their sub-factions are good their basic legends are good and their typified rules are good and every one of those things stacks on every unit in the game and i'm not even talking like battalions of course like normally you could lay on there too right yeah no no it is an impressive level of depth where they they um i i i know it's a narrative is not as important to like sort of like bake into the design but it it it rewards you for um they've taken almost every aspect of how they wrote this the society of elves and then just like so this cast does this this cast does that and then these nations have these own traits and how they perform and then you have the the um bigger umbrella beyond that of here's everything that that um illuminat as as a an army have access to right and yeah it's um i i don't know if we want something that involved for for every like army because i think that would probably get a little noisy but possibly baking in um the options in some other fashion a little bit more streamlined yeah i'll give you my honest answer and then i want to hit a comment real quick they shouldn't have all these rules okay they just shouldn't it's that easy they just shouldn't okay like they overwrote this book yes like there's a layer that needs to not be here i don't know what that layer is so either the subfactions or the generic rules or the rules the typifies the type rules one of those three layers needs to not be there and i know and it's actually okay if they like each book they release they want to clump these if they move them to war scrolls i think like some of these bonuses like especially the alarth like the alarth especially it's like some of the stuff should just be on these horse girls because now it's um only like geometric in general before we get to like the sub factions it's like that now only affects 10 of the army right and some sub-factions only affect that much but i think some of these rules if you just move them to this is like the mountain stance it's like you can choose to be in mountain stance that hasn't there's not another stance i mean stone mage but like you don't they are not mutually exclusive stances you can just move those to the three war scrolls that needs to be on and you're done right yeah my honest answer is this whole army has too many rules like there are just actually there's that was true before too like on stone mountain man there's that ridiculous set of rules about like if he's near a character and then the character doesn't move and or he doesn't move and they end up in the next hero phase being x inches away from each other then like that somebody could use a command ability for free and i'm just like what kind of ridiculous mouse trap rube goldberg situation do i need to execute on here to make this happen like that entire again if somebody had handed me that set of rules i would have been like no cut this i got like yeah so yeah there you go um now as to like somebody had asked up above like how do new players deal with this could this be a bad time for people yeah but we'll talk about ways that i think this you can you can push on this army we will talk about some ways to beat it my hope is that it's not too toxic i guess time will tell on that i it'll be interesting to do another npe show at some point you know next year and and see what it's like um you know like it's it's a question i don't know it's it's not that they're unbeatable it's that they're probably not going to give a good game under a lot of circumstances especially players the the thing that i struggle with is that like if you're not like the mental load for a lrl player is real okay that said i don't know how i prep my opponent for the game they're about to have sure if they're not familiar with the army and its capabilities right well what does your army do well a lot just a lot like so much more than i can explain to you right right like i couldn't handle it for a show yeah i could hand out an entire like cheat sheet of everything i can do in every phase and their eyes would just glaze over like so i don't know how non-specialists of this army are supposed to expect to play it and be not know that you're not cheating right like sure i'll use this ability and then do this other thing and also this happens and now are now your losses and you have this penalty and it's like wait what happened go ahead now let's just say perhaps that could be like a topic for a show in general like like um sort of that pre-game discussion yeah like even like even at an event like it's it's i mean when i'm playing my iron jaws right like here's the pre-game discussion right okay everything in my units hits like a truck and i can be anywhere on the board i want at any point in time that's what's gonna happen i have unbelievable mobility and when i show up i'm gonna blow up whatever i touch so you may want to chaff accordingly okay these little guys make me do more damage these guys hit real hard and go real fast right right then that's about it like like you got it that's what iron jaws does baby that's the army i just summarized the whole thing okay uh but with this you're gonna be like okay so these units these three pile in an extra three inches they don't have to pile in towards the enemy and they fly when they do that these wizards in addition everything on their war scroll can auto can forego their spell and cast on a nine on the next turn if they didn't cast this turn and also this one can steal bravery from my units and give it to your units then also make you take the losses because that's all the same character right and then all of them can do this or this or this or this but when i do that i take a penalty to bravery but when i take a penalty to brave i can give that to you because of this character so what you're telling me is it's it's someone's job and i'll say maybe it's my job to go out there and and and find a way to summarize what illuminath army does you're gonna have to prepare people otherwise what you're going to do is you're going to generate bad experiences yeah because it's going to be like you know when when you were a kid and you were playing like i don't know like army soldiers you know like the little old mono pose army soldiers and like you'd set up and pow pow maybe it's just me um and you'd be playing with your neighbor friend and suddenly you're like and then i do this and he's like wait that you're not allowed to do that and i'll be like yeah i am it's in the rules you know like and they're like you're changing the rules well the problem is this there's an agreed upon assumptions as to how the game plays and luminesce like nah right no yeah exactly you got to pile in towards enemies no i don't command abilities are used for one command point no they don't right um all this kind of stuff yeah so um somebody said can you make fun lists out of this army yeah yes yeah absolutely the there are uh like a thousand thousand percent yes there are absolutely lists you can make with this army that aren't packed full of npe that will play pretty normal warhammer and honestly be pretty fun they'll just play very classic high elveny-like stuff like those lists do exist they can be done so you don't have to be a jerk with this army you don't okay but it incentivizes that type of play because of the way the design kind of points of like if you're going to use this this is how you should use it yeah you are absolutely fun right right okay yeah all right let's keep moving let's talk about that uh terrain piece as well in the allegiance abilities because guess what it's shrine time shrine time oh by the way they get a terrain piece they get a terrain piece as well yes uh uh the terrain piece is this big old floaty shrine there are faq questions around this thing it is a gorgeous train piece uh i might get one just have it on my table because i think it'd look really cool it's just a generic terrain piece on the table um it's set up wholly within your territory after territories are chosen one inch from other terrain six inches from objectives if you've got a person garrisoning it by the way only elves can garrison it only one elf character can garrison it so you can't garrison their shrine take that seraphon uh with your stupid building that the enemy can garrison uh you can re-roll one casting unbinding or dispelling rule each turn for a hero within 12 inches of it and once a turn the shrine guardian can uh use a uh command ability for free i i have so many questions which is like 10 free command points over the course of the game i mean you started garrison did the thing you know nine if you didn't or whatever okay i i have so many questions around how the footprint of this terrain works because of garrison this is the faq question can you move under it what happens like if it's garrisoned clearly not because then you can't move within three inches of it or you're in combat so like that's how garrisoning train works normally but what if it's not garrisoned and i happen to walk under it and then somebody garrisons it like then what happens then can i because i can't guarantee the thing but they could right i could be like under it on this side then they jump in from over here because they started holy within six and then garrisoned it and then like now i'm technically in combat with them like what is happening here yeah well like you could put somebody in the middle of the legs underneath yeah yeah yeah you could deploy like tony spearman under that thing yeah well it's a lot of space under there well i was simply gonna say then they like you force like a six inch charge a six to seven inch charge because they have to start outside three inches of the waterfalls like the footprint of the thing itself if it's garrison yes and so like you could keep somebody in the middle protected like from like short charges ever like they would only be able to get into those people with a long charge which is just hilarious to me yeah so i don't know there's a lot of faq questions around this terrain beast they're going to need to write a like a lengthy response of like if i don't want to see the what's going to happen is some people are going to submit some really intelligent questions like martin who are going to formulate some really smart faq questions and the answers yes get out of here it's gonna be so good no it's it's like and the thing is like because you can theoretically put a scenario in there which comes with something where it's like what happens with with the bodyguards and then it just it it it's a it's a glorious mess a glorious capital g like i i mean in the end like um a lot of this stuff can be resolved by players where it's like what's going on here and and they'll just say it probably does this and that's what's going to how is it going to end up being resolved but in terms of event play and and just just rules as written um and then there's the whole thing with iliatha which i don't even want to go near sure because like then are you doubling your command points because i'm cast i'm using it for free here and then does it dupe up for free again right yeah because there are multiple commands there's no way around it there are there are multiple command abilities in this army which um are not triggered by heroes but you need a hero on the table for those command abilities to trigger right now i i've had this discussion a few times not within the past two or three days to have the screenshots handy of of like how it's resolved i don't know if if that specific aspect of it requires an faq but it could be interpreted as so long as the hero that you're electing to participate in the the like because the weirdest thing is most of the time heroes are not using command abilities you the player are which is how it how it gets weird because the language specifically says that the shrine guardian can use a command ability for free and that's where it just goes crazy well yeah so i mean what i would say is this uh i wonder if we're not getting a glimpse behind the curtain of third edition oh for sure like not maybe not with this thing specifically but elsewhere in the book yeah well maybe maybe that i that maybe that maybe command abilities will be divorced from models predominantly i don't know i don't know but i look forward to it i look forward to whatever nonsense comes with command abilities in 3-0 which they because they change it every edition here's what i'll bet on right they're going to change and however they change live intent a game okay like that's what we can say all right yes i don't want to beat this all up too bad let's let's let's move on from the shrine it's like uh you know it is what it is many faqs incoming stay tuned this will not be the last time we ask for fx i i have i mentioned i love the diversity of rules in this army oh sure yeah yeah sure i get it all right let's talk sub factions new sub factions all right uh while i time stamp here for sub factions okay all right great i like i like the alumni subfection it's like hey all the aluminum no alumni it's for all the alumni elf players yes all the old isle players all right so let's talk about subfaction aluminia uh as i'm sure it'll be end up being called so subfaction aluminia uh it's generic ability as three venari or scenario units get a pregame normal move which is your benari are obviously all your sort of shining company kind of folks and uh you know your wardens and your sentinels and those kinds of your traditional high elves basically cenari are your aforementioned casters they get a full-on move sure that's pretty good why not seems good uh your commandability is run and charged your command trait is very bad and i'm not even going to talk about it because it's not worth repeating uh but your artifact is once per battle you can teleport uh you get a teleport of basically 12 inches it's like weirdly phrased for no reason um but it's during the movement phase and you can like you pick a point and teleport to it so it's technically kind of a 13 inch teleport or whatever ish but it's fine cool it's teleport it's perfectly fine artifact it should be noted that that run and charge is um not limited by any ranges this is one of those abilities that we're talking about it's not like a unit within 18 inches of a hero no it's spend a command point anybody anywhere on the battlefield can run and charge like one unit can run and charge yes that's right that's right so like again this is the kind of thing that the shrine guardian could do right he could just be over there banging this drum for free right right and he and like it doesn't matter where the where the unit he is that he's targeting is because that this doesn't put restrictions on that unlike many other command abilities right it doesn't have to emanate from a hero within x inches it's just somebody in your army gets to now run and charge go nuts right yep uh aluminium okay so that's the basics let's talk about aluminium what does it do well uh well it's excellent for many battle plans to grab right objectives it's alumni i aluminia i'm gonna keep saying it because it makes me laugh but yes it's fine it's it's fine mispronouncing elvish things is one of my great joys in life okay so please don't ruin it for me oh oh trust me like there's there's there's this whole sections in lord of the rings lore videos on pronouncing words and syllables and it's like you're all doing it wrong yeah well that was written by link i mean anyone i like anyone watching them it's like you're all all lord of the rings fans are doing it wrong apparently it's fine uh it allows for that early excellent board control uh it's great for easy run and charge on things like wardens to get them into the fight it's absolutely amazing with the lore seeker because you can have him drop down and then go out and send out protection units to also threaten other objectives or to bodyguard him or whatever uh i really like aluminium i really do i think this is a super potent sub faction i think it could like the fact that one that speed especially among heavy venary armies can still be a problem right like you are not a very mobile force you're relying on a lot of foot slogging folks and the fact that three units can just make a full move pre-game not d3 like every everybody else no no not like the rest of us plebs who get d3 units to pre-game move no three all three right so there you go yeah um i think this is where um you have a home in those fun like we were talking a few minutes ago it's like can people still make fun armies uh this is a good home for your fun armies um it lets you play a little faster lets you play a little bit more aggressively um and it still gives you some like control tricks in there with that like the the lure master using the teleport item yeah but um yeah it lets you play a little bit more fast and loose like for the for long let's just go faster like yeah i mean i think it makes whartons i think this is a great uh if you like wardens i think this is an interesting play for them right like because wardens now get to start farther ahead or be in a better position a more forward position right they like they can be out there yeah still in shining company right farther forward uh maybe in a more advanced position which is nice like you generally want them to be out and to set the charge getting a whole extra turns move right the beginning of the game is pretty good and if you break shining company and suddenly can run and charge that could be pretty good too depending on what you need to do with them right i mean the thing that i would add that i actually think that like is the really the most interesting play um with that early move is using it with the cav because like you can you can put them wherever you want on the board yeah 100 percent like dawn riders you mean yes yeah like taking and taking like a block of 10 which are on a four up save and shoving them down somebody's throat like i think there's a real potential for like a mobile anvil or just early holding an objective pretty hard which forces them to come out right because you're at like check you're going to control the objective even if you don't have first term right right right yeah right you can get to the point where your dawn writers have went out and claimed one thing you've got a lore seeker on another which we'll talk about him later and like where you're just holding a majority of the board before they've even gone right even if they go first right correct yeah like it's crazy uh and i would point out like scenario units can do that too so depending on the objective placement some they might be able to literally like toe into the objectives and actually threaten those if they're hero focus objectives like places or whatever right yeah yeah anything else on aluminia good stuff i like it i it's one of my favorites yeah i think aluminium is strong uh we'll talk about what we think compared to the existing ones after we cover the second one so uh let's talk about the great nation of helon elon uh uh generic ability plus one to attack with missile weapons used within three inches of the enemy unit so it makes you a better shooter up close uh i will all all all win uh writers need to have their bows turned sideways because they're they're if they're in helon because they they're in there for the kill shot they're turning the gun they turn the bow sideways it's kill shot it's a kill shot okay uh their command ability is they allow a unit to make a normal move at the end of combat which is going to get insane for reasons we'll talk about later uh and their uh command trade is actually quite good once a game you can reroll one run reroll one charge and reroll one casting roll for the person who has it quite nice um but more three once a game abilities by the way when i was counting those i counted that as one but that's actually three distinct once again abilities right there uh and then your artifact is once per game yet again uh at the start of combat you can pick one enemy unit within three inches and they're neg one to hit and wound for that enemy that enemy is neglected wound until the end of the phase very very very potent artifact holy moses that's a good artifact that's a spicy meet the ball uh and then they also make win writers battle line it's like it's like i got something for you archaeon yeah like the again so much of this army relies on uh using the right resource at the right time and like you pop your penny and your plus one to save and you pop the artifact and your neg went their neg one to hidden wound like suddenly you're really really really diminishing that enemy units ability to move you in the turn where they needed to move you and you hold the um you hold the uh the objective for one extra turn oftentimes that's the difference between winning and losing okay martin what do you think about uh about helon i'll flip to the what does it do well but i want your take first yeah um it's it's a lot it's it's your your this is your counterparty metrica this is you you want to you want to do like all all the wind riders all the time all of all of the new wind toys this is this is the sub faction for you yeah except for sephiroth sure i mean we can get we um we'll get it yeah i was about to say like that that's sort of that's a discussion i think is more applicable to like when we talk about the main characters in general but it's it's yeah it's it really just gives you more toys for playing the stuff that you wanted to play with already if you're all in like christian weirs like i i i want to play at least 20 of these and here you go yeah yeah i mean it makes for as like you can you can all read what's on the screen but i think this really makes for an extremely mobile force that is there to frustrate your enemy that's going to be doing things like piling out leaving combat completely walking away leaving you stranded reducing your units ability to kill off turn right to do damage where they don't want them to do damage to be in the way be blocking anything rechaffing like all that kind of stuff right is what they're gonna do now at the same time i should state that don't underestimate that plus one attack when you're within three inches okay you're right yeah of course now it's it's not the easiest thing to trigger right because you gotta like be in combat and then sort of stay there right by the time like you're shooting before you're charging normally so it's you right you're only getting it the next turn right but once it's firing off if you've got like a big unit of wind riders uh you know they they can do significant damage or of course the the archers like that there have been some gamey lists on um floating around online or it's like can i get a unit of 20 sentinels into combat long enough for me to do this next turn sure so they get two shots per bow like fine like you you've got you you've done your thing it's like smash bats like i i have built towards this exact thing sure and now i'm going to do it and kill something very hard with it yeah tom is grinning here's here's the question i can't wait for people to be charging with ballistas to get this bonus okay so uh you really got to go all in get the five attacks out of the ballista um the here's here's my question um how do these two compare to the existing nations um tom do you want to go first or yeah i mean yeah are are you still sticking with any of the original ones what are you doing yeah i mean for me like alumni is like it's very like we've talked about this with subfactions before and what makes perfect sub-faction um it has three out of its four abilities or things that i would like write home about you know really good um and so it is in the conversation for me with zaytrek and with uh uh cr yeah i think sire is still the king honestly i think it's just i think double penny is the most powerful thing that's ever been put in a book ever um so i mean like it just is uh because of what you can do with it and but that being said i think i think both of the new ones compare pretty favorably i do agree with you i think it's up there with like xy track i think it's certainly on that level um as like the i'm just not a gamey gaming gaming power gamer and i'd like to play something fun uh so like helon and uh aluminia and uh and zytrek are all those right but that's what this reads me it's it's like it's tier two but it's still really good it's called the level that most armies would kill to have a sub-faction per format right right like i i'm gonna okay look you gotta give me one of these in the whole show so here's my one thing i'm gonna say this all right all right never going to come back to it again i'm not going to say it anymore i need we lost tom that's fine he'll be back in a second uh but i need one of these okay it's like here and then like this is sire and then sort of zeitrak and illuminae aluminia and helon and everything and then that way down here is like everything printed in the slinesh book the fact that there we go this book came out right on after slinesh okay is so deeply hurtful to me the fact that like slaanesh who in my mind should have always been the army of speed kills every story about that army is them just ripping around the mortal realms at lightning speed on chariots and riding these crazy mounts and just woo-hoo tearing around the mortal realms smashing into people like lunatics just crazy mad max style you know psychopaths screaming across the realms at ultra speed okay he's not he's not done yet is he no not the fact that this book gave me gave put this speed in the hands of the elves that is like so much faster than like not even close to everything in slinesh okay it's hurtful to me and that's it i had to get it out yeah we're done that's i'm not gonna mention it if i if i could laugh like rich evans and i think i i i'm thankful i cannot i would be right now sure i mean this is what i'll say just let your pain out vince uh as as one person who just a little over a year ago experienced something very similar i get it yeah i understand why you are heard i know where you're coming from thank you tom all right anyways there you go yeah if can can i just before we move on i i would say my my opinion is at least um it's like because when we were saying it's like that there are too many rules what needs to get cut i do appreciate and like th this is still the standard i think of the sub factions like cr needs to change like i think cr needs probably needs to be redesigned but the play styles the the diversity of play styles um available to people in each of the sub-factions which are out there yeah and that are also introduced within key lon i get it the elon musk jokes i get it um they're all in the chat that's why i brought it up yeah i know it's good yeah and alumni like they take the same units and just open them up for players and i think that's just so rewarding and that is the standard we should see cr separately but like zytrek alumni like people are still thinking about geometrica because of like the way you can use stoneguard and the mountain spirits now completely yeah i agree other than sire being out of bounds i think luminef is actually a great example of how subfactions should be written that's why i would have said like if i if i was redoing this i would just jettison all those type rules we don't need like the venari nonsense like none of that crap needs to exist this argument it could all be perfect you could just give the appropriate units if they needed them and not everyone did by the way like archers don't need to be set up in shining company and have neglig built into them they just don't they just don't okay right like it just it just doesn't need to be a thing that's happening that was just what wardens did right if that was just like a warden ability yeah fine agreed right like whatever so anyways okay no no i i i'm yeah uh rocco you boy hey if we find a counter for uh for aluminium are we gonna call it aluminium foil yes yes a thousand percent that's if you both have pre-game moves okay and where you have to roll off because when you both have pregame moves you have to roll off for who does it first right if they beat you that's called an aluminium foil right there that's what the name of that maneuver is so there you go nailed it nailed it okay new units let's get all right now that we're on more scrolls i will be back in 20 seconds i am getting water you go get some water while we start talking war scrolls all right settle in folks here we go let's get into them hot hot new units all right well the first one's boring uh so the sonari calgary if this is the penman right um poor guy his spell is bad uh i don't know how else to say it like it's just mathematically incorrect um it was designed wrong somebody didn't check the numbers uh you would never use its ability to marker light somebody because that's actually mathematically worse than just throwing a d3 wounds at them twice okay uh because you still got to cast the spell twice so it's not like it just goes off automatically or something um it doesn't work and their actual ability of the realm scribe can be very hard to use because it fires off on a bonus and it has to and it's actually a tough role so like on round one it only goes off on a four up round two it's on a three up which is still very failable so like let me jump in real quick yeah um for those who don't understand what vince is saying about the mathematically like wrong you are going to average more damage from 2d3 mortal wounds than one d6 correct always always it's always the right answer to throw a d3 every turn than to throw that d6 right and d3 wounds uh against against an only hero with a 24 inch range is over costed on a seven to cast right that's the bottom line right he's also a fragile hero you know five wounds on a five-up save um now uh i mean about another shrine what's that yes it does say by the way it actually does d3 wounds which i don't know what the heck that means it's like i guess they still get saves against it even i'm not sure um but even so well that's even worse yeah it's like it's very very bad there's an faq here of whether they met mortal wounds and just screwed up the text well if the uh if the daughters of kane faqs anything to be to follow then that no those are normal wounds and that means that uh yeah everybody in the chat's correct i should have stated that i was kind of assuming that it was a misprint but you're right you're right i shouldn't assume that right because i mean like what they did with the faq precedent of the daughters of kane is say no when it actually says wounds it is wounds and thus apparently it's printed as mortal wounds on the war scroll card and in the app there you go so again even more confusing it's an faq but it doesn't matter really because the spell is bad regardless so he has a he has a cheap body for the shrine uh because the shrine doesn't move contrary to to everyone in all the flavor text yeah right all the flavor text all of the articles i yeah right um you may not necessarily want to put your cathalar um or or or the twins like on the shrine you may want them somewhere else in the battlefield so having one of these if you have them in your list um it is the least expensive scenario to take yes um and uh just having a scenario on the shrine is not a bad place to be so like there is there's still value the the use for me to these guys i could see the use of these guys in a highly competitive force i could see taking two of them because it's only 200 points for two of them and they're both your total eclipse casters you take two of them you give them both total eclipse you back boredom just like you bury them somewhere right and they just literally sit in the back and one of them tries to cast round one the other one contemplates and then from that point on they both just contemplate and cast contemplating and it's the cheapest total eclipse engine you have you have because they could sit out of dispel range so nobody except serif on could even have a chance to dispel them right and you have guaranteed entire game or four fifths of the game at least total eclipse for 200 points for 200 uh bargain deal which is way cheaper than doing it as you used to with teclas as as martin noted um the like all the all the the signs point to the fact the train piece used to move like in the lore and in the article and stuff like that i would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that meeting when somebody went you know what looking at the entire book this is it right here the the shrine moves we can't have that that's way too strong sure with like all the rest of the layers of rules that we've talked about it's just a nightmare to try to move this big terrain piece around that would be what the answer is so and if you were in and if you were in combat you would pile in as the shrine and if you're a huracan you could pile in six inches yeah it would have been amazing no i'm i'm looking something up while we talk um apparently with the contemplating i think it's printed uh in different places that it can't be unbound no it can in the base in the book it says it that that nine cannot be modified in other words you cannot add other bonuses to it which is of course how all of those set number things work and then or penalties or penalties correct correct it just it fires on a nine uh and it does but it does say but it can be unbound yeah it specifically says that in the rules yes yes all right you just have to roll roll that hard 10. you got to roll that hard 10. uh or less because your bonuses to unbinding still apply but yes again my point is if i was going to the only use for the calgary if i could really see you take two of them you backboard them out of the spell range and you just have them sit there and go we hold the moon into the place over the sun masters of the moon moon masters i don't know actually what they're holding i would assume how do they create an eclipse hold on if you're fighting in haish which is the sun of the mortal realms it's what generates light okay which i have no problem with like i got it it's a bright glowing realm it generates light for the rest of the mortal realms i'm cool with that okay so if it's the sun okay how do they if they're in haiti itself yeah total eclipse it has a night time somehow like it's not complete darkness it's weird but it does have a night time because it's technical yeah it's okay i don't understand my point is it's not an eclipse an eclipse is a specific meaning it is an astral body again there are there are the source of light there are two moons selenar like uh the the sphanx body tekklus yeah is the avatar of the true moon of heist which is selenar yep and then there is leof which is i believe like the false moon i assume that's going to be a model in malarion's sort of shadow army sure because it's like the trickster moon or something sure um it could just be hey uh selenar can you can you just like block out like all all light for a bit um and like they get on the telephone and they just call them and they say did you did you cast a spell i contemplated so it just it just happens it's like sure i'll be right over my point is if you're on the sun you cannot create an eclipse you're on here's where here's where you're you've missed out okay i'm ready i'm ready i'm not asking how does it get dark that's not what the question is the spell is total eclipse an eclipse is defined thing not night time go right now here's where you step missed that you see it's a metaphor oh okay oh got it all right that answers the question thanks tom because wait all right because enlightenment has been shrouded so the truth has been concealed and so the heresy oh all right next war scroll uh okay as an aside i love the fact that in the lore the other moon is the trickster moon sure like insert joke about the other tricksters start here like we'll get that eventually okay giant bannerman bannerman bannerman uh yeah banner guy's cool uh he's gonna do anything i'm glad he doesn't do what he used to do no he doesn't he doesn't actually do much of anything um which is unfortunate like he reminds me of the bannermen in the rewrite of the war scroll of the compendium war scrolls hold on i i'm sorry i i reject your answer martin or i'm sorry marcin in the chat has answered it they simply play total eclipse of the heart and that's how it happens and when that song is playing of course it would take two command points to do anything because everybody is is jamming to that obvious and eternal banger so there's no way they would heed your commands that is the answer thank you that is how total eclipse gets cast in haish okay i am now satisfied at any rate yeah the better blade doesn't do anything that's a problem he's a perfectly decent enough hero five wounds on three up save his attack is like okay and but his banner is like it's plus one bravery okay whatever like again not relevant and hey it cancels out that penalty that you have sure for spending your your that you're never going to take because the catholic yeah i agree and um and you know what he has this once again ability to fire off a little pulse from his banner but the problem is is that you get it it is at the start of any phase which is cool right like i appreciate that you could do it like in the start of the enemy charge phase or something and damage their units on the way in like it's cool but you roll a die like you get to do this once and then you roll a die for each enemy uh unit within 18 inches of the model if the roll is equal to or less than the number of the current battle round then they take d3 wounds and subtract one from hit rolls right so like on turn three you've got a 50 50 shot of it affecting the units within 18 inches of it so you're saying it's a bad knight as euros lantern yeah yeah yeah that's exactly what i'm saying yes and so like i mean it's bigger range but it's much less effect right i i do have one i have like the find the world's smallest tinfoil hat because i have a i have a tiny tinfoil hat theory um most of the offenders of what made eighth edition warmer fantasy as unfun as well army battle standard bearers that gave broken abilities to units specifically the most broken the silly one like because it's like when when beasts and nurgle came out and like the beast of nervous girl i mean like i i understand broken realms has changed it a little bit but like when they made the new plastic piece of knurl which was one of the main things that people just like went on about as just like oppressive and is now terrible uh banner of the world dragon sure and everyone would start to shake in their boots when they saw that it was called i believe it's called the world banner yeah and just what it did and i'm kinda glad that this that this is not doing what the banner of the world dragon used to do because this army does enough already you mean that it's just not ever gonna be taken got it yeah i mean he's he's a nice cool you'd it's beautiful model but like he doesn't the actual main problem to me isn't even like the the the swinginess of the banner firing off where you could easily fire it off and just get nothing out of it like you're talking if you use it later than turn three it's too late the game is over right yeah but like i'm just i'm sorry there's just one thing in the chat just to be real quick about it banner of the world dragon was this thing that high elves could take um it had a like two paragraphs of epic flavor text and then just broke about five or six rules with two sentences of rules yeah i mean most importantly it gave you a two of ward save against demons yes an entire faction you one unit got a a basically immune to damage from one faction into the game it was it was super fun as a player of d armies during that time period it was great it was amazing against as ohio flair sure okay anyways yeah i did love massive silver helm charges full of those that was great uh at any rate um the real problem to me with this unit is actually is a pretty expensive army and this guy actually doesn't have a real defined role right right and so like the banner could have actually had an interesting role to supplement some units i'm actually kind of glad it doesn't because i think there's too much synergy in this book but it doesn't and so because the nature of the thing it's funny you remember when they took have you went into legends and read all of the old banners like it gives all the old army bsbs you know where there was like dedicated models and they legended all of them right yep do you remember what all those do now i remembered what they did before when they were good and then i also remember what they did when they changed them to be worthless for their points as a compendium scroll i don't know what they did when they rewrote them as legends that we've never heard about since they'll have a mortal wounds pop on them that's what they really yeah they're this they're this rule all of them are just like they're just like pop a thing and do mortals so they literally just imported those legends rules this is a little bit stronger and a little bit more like it's more wounds because most of those are just like a single mortal wound but to about the same area but they don't have the turn counter on it you just like do it yeah so yeah it's pretty funny uh yes he is gonna look awesome on a display board though like if you've got a display board you don't have this guy on the top of like a castle what are you doing with your life come on now yeah okay uh cool uh the venari lord regent the lord uh maybe the most beautiful model in the range maybe it could be been waiting ten years for a model like this so gorgeous solid hero he frees up spells free army so let's break this dude down real quick he has a his purest eighth reports ability which as long as he has aether quartz of any kind he gets neg1 to be hit and he has plus one to cast for his spell which is greater power of haish which is a really good spell his uh regent sword is a sun metal weapon and so does sun metal stuff and so can benefit from power of haitian greater power of heist or whatever well he has the rule which is what matters yes he's not a ruler correct we'll talk about that in a minute and yes he is a wizard he can do one spell uh and which is as i said with you know a single cast uh with plus one to cast and he is greater power of heist is basically the same as power of heist which is the your mortal wounds on sixes for sun metal weapons now trigger on fives um however he can do it to d3 units uh which is fantastic uh because it means that hey okay uh come here they've been yeah inspiring the chat the dog attacks fine that's fine uh so he can free up your other units to cast right that's the key like if you drop spells or fail to cast he can he can cover them on the backside or you can do him first cover multiple units and then those units can be freed up to do other spells yeah it's so funny you said that i would do it the other like i would do it the way where he's the backup that covers units that that missed their spell right um you get to go it seems like a gamble otherwise sure yeah uh yeah so it's like he is a really good mobile defensive character um he's 150 points there's absolutely no reason i would want to find that deeply offensive uh but you know yeah he's um here yeah um well well what was what to say while we're doing the dog attack up dog attack there we go okay go ahead martin um oh the only thing better than doggos would be a cat butt sneaking into martin's screen uh we are not a cat family my corki is sleeping on a rug out of you not going to wake her up um now this this is a a perfect vehicle for ciara's goating arrogance yeah um it's first of all um one of our um and tom and i have talked about this many times one of the scenarios which hurts luminesce the most was places of arcane power because we did not have fast heroes and now what do we have a 14 inch three plus save i get it cr could be one plus save if you really wanted uh casting character um who can take magic items and just just be fun fast and just get there right away have troops to back them up and yeah um goating arrogance in particular just just i i know cr was not the new stuff that we covered but it's like um you will see this often as a cr general yeah i think this guy's great he really is by the way if you like the dog and think it's cute hit like uh so there you go otherwise you'll make the yes otherwise you'll make the dog sad you don't want to make the dog sad uh okay uh oh and what does the dog think of the venari lord regent what do you think of it woof she likes it i can tell uh yeah this guy is fantastic like what a wonderful hero six wounds is actually great like it's it sounds silly like i'm surprised he wasn't seven wounds but the fact that he's out of catapult range is what's important he can't get like one catapult uh bop wouldn't oh yeah i hope this heralds a change for stormcast cause i'm tired of stormcast like spit like immortal like it's basically the effective like spacering heroes having only five wounds like i would like to hope i would like to see them all get a wins bump when when they rewrite that stormcast book again like if this is a this is an elf on a giant sort of llama cougar um i know it's called a light coarser steve but it's still like a large like mount yeah and it's only six wounds lord saliston you gotta pump those numbers out yeah oh i see somebody specifically hit dislike just for the dog that's very mean that's a very oh that's going to make the dog very sad sad dog though yeah the the dog is sad about your dislike uh anyways yeah i think this guy's awesome uh i mean he uh i think he'll show up i agree with you in a lot of sire lists i think that's where he's super strong but he's super strong in a lot of different places the fact that he's so mobile can be super defensive is covering for your other units at the same time with his spell right it's good he's great yeah yeah uh solid value i think i think we should do a sidebar and do a side-by-side comparison with the 150 point slaanesh hero which one okay so um all right elenia and elethor the twins possibly one of my favorite worst girls in the book yeah super cool boar scroll no doubt uh eight wound here with a three up save and a six inch move it can be allied into anything uh any oh sorry any order army any order uh so which is neat uh and can give them both it can give bonus command points if they're hanging out near your general which i'm not sure they will be very often but still they could um the uh altari or altitude or whatever his sword is uh has uh this interesting damage mechanic that is set to the turn same with the so there's a lot of things in the luminous book that are set to the turn number for just like no i don't i don't know why the luminesce care about the progression of the turn order but okay unreliability and uh complexity that's why yes uh but yeah exactly like it just feels unnecessary like this guy could have just had a two damage weapon or something and it would have been fine um but sure so his damage goes one two three four five that being said it's like you're not gonna get that four and five barely ever because games don't really go to turn four to turn four and five very often but if you get into four and five things can get messy real quick yes uh it is a two-cast wizard uh which should kiss sonari to cassidy yeah yes absolutely true um and uh it is a very interesting ally it does have this really complicated teleport mechanic in its sudden trans location that i really don't love uh just the way it works like because the way it's structured is at the end of the combat phase roll a die if this model fought in that phase okay so not a may must right right and if the roll is less than the number of the current battle round so again like the third trigger of current battle round on this this guy but it is less than not less than or equal to okay uh less than the current battle round or less than the number of wounds allocated to this model okay then heal d6 wounds then remove it from the battlefield then set up the model anywhere on the battlefield more than 12 inches away from enemy models if it's impossible they just leave but don't count as being slain what's in all that is holy it is a forced heel teleport like it can force you to literally pull them out of combat right they could be in combat you fought it's like turn three you roll the die maybe they took no wounds maybe they're unwounded right now right but you roll one or two and they're all one two you have to pull them out of that combat and go teleport them somewhere else on the board 12 inch away from enemies could be real good maybe there's an open objective it's fantastic could be real bad i'm sorry go ahead go ahead martin no no so i'm saying it's like i i do actually i actually like this rule like i get it it's unreliable like that it's it's not quite competitive like but that that's not the point so like reading their story and everything or it's like so so the sword and and just like the brother can get carried away like he's he's getting too crazy in combat and she plays and this yeah right but the sister is supposed to be like the calm collected one but she also saves him in a way that is equally as impetuous as the brother sure and i and i like that um uh but yeah i just like as comp like first of all this thing is just worded weirdly right like and it almost guarantees that if you fight at all in late game you're going to get bailed out yeah and i don't necessarily like that um like you could still have the teleport if like if uh in another way but it's it's turn five like if you fight you're getting you're almost guaranteed why what i don't like about it is that you can't hold objectives with this unit right sure because if somebody's going to just like charge you fight you and then there's a high probability chance you're just like okay bye right yeah right but at the same time if you get into a unit or if you're on an objective late game and somebody gets into you they may not walk away from that yeah sure because you're swinging around like a four damaged sword sorry corgi wanted permission to go upstairs for some reason all good yeah and not just like an insignificant one like a four attack four damage sword yeah sure like they bring ten they they bring ten models in on you that may not be enough for them sure yeah yeah it's it's a very interesting piece i i legitimately don't know how to rate this thing competitively i think it's super cool like flavor-wise this is one of the coolest sort of units they've ever made and i think this would be a really interesting model to play right uh like it's gonna do weird things that are very surprising to your opponent so this is what i would like so i'll just open this way i like them i like the stock right like i like the unit i'm in and in general i would try to include this unit in every army that i build just because i like what's going on i like having this weird late game powerhouse because that's what it is sure like this is this is the unit that i stick with a unit of 10 swordmasters and i push up on an objective and i say i dare you to come in right um and we'll talk about swordmasters here in a minute but i think that like alone i think these twins are a liability but you stick them with a unit of swordmasters and i think there's real gas in the engine there i can see that yeah because because the swordmasters actually complement and shore up the weakness of the twins in every way possible like in both attack profiles in in all of those things sure um so so um a few things and it was pointed out to me that apparently um elves uh of of many of many uh shapes and sizes like using the turn number uh like doc and idk use the tuner number and some of their mechanics i think um luminous triple down on it like we're seeing multiple scrolls just like require the turn number to be a part of what they do maybe that's a bit too much um and is this the part where we can we can talk about um my gripes about keyword locked certain things for sub-factions or do we want to wait for another named character about that uh well we covered the i don't have the actual name the lord regent we just passed him so yeah it's a fine time to talk about it yeah we should talk about the fact that all of the name characters are keywords so so we're running into this thing now and i think it's more acutely felt in luminous than other armies excluding maybe stormcast but maybe um with guardis on the horizon we may be seeing an end to that but there's just certain things where i feel like they should just add a rule saying that this unit cannot gain some faction keywords because there are things in limited like teclas the light of altharian who can gain any faction keyword um but there's certain like severith like is geometrica um yeah the the the wart we specifically have the warden of geometrica and yet cannot benefit from any of the subfaction rules that geometrica offers sure and it's it just it feels strange like we we have this sort of um uh exaltation of the symmetry of the eighth nate great nations that um presumably will become those sub-factions like the other two um and it's like why are these geometrica like instead of having a rule saying they can't gain you you get where you get that it was a weird choice to like it feels like this decision to corral the power of the unique characters away from the sub-factions by locking them all to the one sub-faction they could gain nothing from rules-wise yeah and it's not just with luminesce like we see with every underworld's warband gains the if if that army has subfactions they are locked to like we haven't seen the war scroll yet for uh the obr war band but i would put money down saying that they're mortise praetorians and so on and so forth sure um the weird part about this book is that it's locking like that's fine sometimes those things get locked into sub-factions where it's like okay they can still play they still could benefit hagnar uh being locked into hagnard is not a bad thing right like i mean it's a thing it's definitely not a bad thing it's just a thing whereas like in this book it's weird that all of the characters regardless of like whether they seem to be more huracan type characters or or whether they are alireth sort of stone people or whatever right that they're all hard locked to geometrica to literally a subfaction and to a set of rules that they can that they just gain nothing from right now we should state they still keep their other type rules like as has been pointed out elania and elethor still have our still scenario so they can still contemplate right and they have your eclipse rotation right absolutely later on we'll talk when we talk about um the uh the severity about sevreth right the spirit of the wind he still has huracanan right it's just you can't put him in illuminia or hilo sorry helon and like he can't ever get the bonus attack for being in combat or anything like that because he's always stuck geometrica a sub faction that again just does nothing for him right yeah right now it's it's um and someone said oh this might be a sign of third edition no they've done this like it's they've done this since i think guardis um excluding characters which aren't subfaction like like teklas and the light of all therian don't have faction keywords i'm sorry subfaction keywords but like guardis i think is the first one the first camera's a sigma special character he's the first special he's the first special character i think in age of sigmar to have a sub-faction keyword which is not the box art sub-faction right if they have a sub-faction keyword at all that's incredible yeah it's it's crazy how much we've been hard locked to single to the sort of banner banner faction as it were yeah yes right right yeah yeah um and can i just say one more thing since we skipped larry or i yeah yeah we didn't talk about larry or he's the name the lord region he's 210 points um i am i am just tired of the one attack weapons um i i think we need to break from the varus similitude idea that that one dice roll for an attack equals one swing of a weapon like i think because that's what they think people hooked up on like on gargets i think it's okay for like something like that and and stop me if i'm wrong after this vince because i'm talking about gargants um to swing x times at lower damage than to do one godzilla size dice roll that still equates to zero half the time yeah it's it's an extra thing on there he's not really meant to be an offensive piece but sure i get what you're saying completely right it's weird to see the one lance attack when like everything else isn't structured like that so sure yeah yep okay let's keep moving all right sonari lore seeker uh best hero in the history of aos i have that written here uh let me check my notes uh yes that is correct this is the best hero can i jump in the game sure trying to jump like we move by this quickly and i i want to call this out um yes they have the scenario keyword alania and elethor they also have the vennari keyword they're the only unit in the board there has both keywords sure that's fine and so from a keyword suit standpoint from of triggering abilities from swordmaster guarding all like they trigger all the everything the command abilities the everything wonderful talk about this ridiculous guy now this is the thing i've been yeah that's fine he's really good again best hero in the history of aos yes this is a six wound hero with a six inch move and a four up save he has a decently fine ranged attack and his staff for no reason that makes two attacks on threes and threes neg two d three damage and a perfectly good sword attack with fours on twos threes neg1 d3 damage he's fine in combat but that is not why you take him okay uh he has this ability to gain a command point if our enemies with artifacts of power get killed near him who cares whatever that those that should have been struck that rule should not be there it doesn't need to be there it's silly that it's there he's a caster with no spell that is to say like he can just use arcane bolt and mystic shield and his sonari spell obviously but he doesn't have a war scroll spell who cares like like eclipse sure sure like for example he can be in your rotation as well uh and uh this guy now let's talk about the only thing on this scroll that matters this guy this guy lone agent you can add one to save rolls for a text target the model this this model if it's more than nine inches away from enemy friendly or from friendly models so he goes to a three-up save if there's no other friendlies around okay it's fine okay in addition that's that is the biggest in addition in this book instead of setting up this model in the battlefield you can place it to one side and say that it's set up as a loan agent and a reserve unit if you do so at the start of the first battle round before determining who has the first turn you must set up this model on the battlefield anywhere that is more than three inches away three inches away that's it from any enemy units and not in your territory not in your territory if you set up this model within six inches of an objective that has no enemy units within six inches of it you gain control of the objective and your opponent cannot gain control of it while this model is within six inches of it holy crap oh you have giants that count for us 45 models i don't care cool story bro yeah i own this i own yes this is mine now look at me look at me i am the captain okay so there are like this dude can win games almost on his own now let's talk about some things i got a little bit i'm gonna fly through this and i want you guys to take on it on the in the back of the book he is marked as unique okay so you can only have one of them now there is no tangible reason why this guy is unique okay by tangible reason i mean it doesn't say this guy is a named character that's what it says on everybody else who's named let's look back at here elania and elethor elania and elethor are named characters that are a single model okay all named characters say that all of them okay he does not uh so is he supposed to be unique i would argue no there's nothing uh unique about him okay there is nothing unique about him however they realized that allowing you to take very late in the process probably uh john buyer they can use the no their rules instead of the scenario rules and i don't want to get into that for guardians because that itself is a total nightmare but he's not using the scenario rules he's saying i'm within six inches of an objective so i own this now period you're within six inches of an objective where no one else is when he when he sets up that's the trigger okay right he did that he already stapled over the scenario rules those are no longer in play so the giants can overwrite the scenario rules all day long he's like haha too bad we're not using those rules i he's like i already overripped those yeah congratulations yeah i mean the key is that he ignores whatever claim rules are anyways right so let's imagine we were in a scenario that could only ever be capped by battle line let's say that that existed he'd say no this is my objective now correct correct he can already overwrite the normal rules because the way this is written he can like this can only be taken by x no it can't if it can be taken by me uh notably right um on something like places of arcane power where you normally have a three-inch claim zone he could just set up six inches away and take it that's what my rules say yo i don't need to be within three inches to take your stupid thing i'll take it at six inches deal with that okay so it it is peak warhammer that so so like because this is the thing of the faq in the general's handbook it says what name um it says what unique means um and the core rules it says what named character means right but in the description of pitched battle profiles which took like the longest things for people to read it says these are now the same thing where they are over top of your war scroll points where it says this thing right and and so can this guy get a magic item or take a command trait i don't know i probably not maybe yes i don't know like my point is he's not named specifically unless that text at the top of the points thing ties them together because it says all unique characters are named characters and it effectively forced those together but right this guy doesn't have the statement that says he is a named character no it but it says that he's unique in the chart and if it says he's unique in the chart that means he is nate right i think they just pulled this level lever instead of saying instead of writing out the text you can only include one lore seeker in your army they just say they just thought writing unique would do that for them i think this occurred so late in the process because they realized having multiples of these guys in your army would just like you could it would become unbeatable like if you could take multiples of these guys if that unique was a mistake let's say the faq let's imagine a world come with me on a journey okay let's just imagine a world where they go uh oops all berries that shouldn't have said unique you know we actually misprinted it in the chart no you can take multiple door seekers knock yourself out of course he's not unique right it's not a unique guy like yeah you can they you can have multiples of them okay let's just imagine that happened i'm not saying i think that's what will happen i'm saying like let's just say that happens dear god fear this guy if you don't have two of these in your list what are you doing with your life there are so many scenarios you'll just win at setup it would just be instantly gross so i pray to god they don't do that no because you know what you do is you do alumni that can um move yes and you move your sword masters up on them or teleport them with teclas or double move or spell them or or or yeah of course and then and then bunker them with shrine of amnioc with et cetera et cetera and they'll never get that that silliness that was going around last week where it's like no one will do this uh where it's like you can do uh the bill vortex and sanctum of adam talk um and penny and and and i mean no one will do that but it's the fact that it's possible is just yeah sure yeah putting him on a bail with them surrounding so you can have like plus five to your save so you're technically on like a neg two save yeah sure yeah and technically uh you could potentially also uh you couldn't set up on it but if you were in your own territory you could be on your shrine and be at night one because you're garrisoning and getting an additional plus one to save yeah all of the well documented are the ways that you can put this guy on an objective and never lose that objective yes right there there are ways to protect him yes he's only a six-month hero yes of course he's removable he's not immortal he's not even close there's but he has to kill him he's not he is not a six wound hero stop if you've got blade masters near him i understand i know he they could you have a blade he's a 12 wound hero i understand anybody with anybody as you've got around well no 50 50. on average 50 50 they're going to take half of his wounds and so on average he's going to go to 12 wins sure now again uh here's what i will say about that about all that right um the the trick with this game the the yes this dude is removable and certainly there are some armies that aren't afraid of this at all because like they just happen to have the right like ranged power projection that they can go i see what you're doing there no and they can like burn this guy down at such a range to just get rid of him early right okay fine right but but that isn't a huge number of armies honestly okay they can just like dump mortal wounds into him very early or hit him with enough high rend that he can't like penny his way out of it or whatever right um the trick with it is this game is often won by like holding an objective for one turn longer than you should have right um and there are places where it's like can i keep the question you should ask yourself is is there a way i can keep this guy alive until turn three right where it doesn't matter what bodies are on the objective with me can i bubble wrap him or whatever right where i can just keep him alive until turn three in most scenarios if he's holding his objective till turn three and then you've got other things off doing the rest of the work it's a huge step towards victory right mm-hmm so my uh so my point is is that uh that like first of all i hope they keep the unique and i hope you can only take one okay um the we just want to give a magic i don't understand what man dolly is answering there page three of pitch battle ghb can only be included one yeah of course we know that i don't i don't know what you're answering there man dollars you'll have to tell me like nobody nobody was arguing you can take more of these guys i was saying imagine a world where you could right like where they were they where they say unique was a printed an error because he doesn't have named or anything already done yeah people want to give it magic items because it's like yes i think you'd like it would be neat to give him magic items or whatever sure that would be fun right because he's not it would but that oh like my point is it's going to open up a new space because this would be the first unique non-named character right that we have in the game and and the reason uh that he's like that is theoretically because again i argue that they realized he was too powerful and they needed to cap him and we don't have a way to write zero to one right other than saying unique that's it right we don't have like a little entry like we used to have in our old warhammer fantasy books that said how many of the unit you were allowed to take right yeah yeah um now that i i don't have any other comments about this guy i really like it prime is a unique named character i've seen multiple people say this go read his word scroll i literally shared it on twitter today the celestine prime is a named character it says it right there his name is the celestin prime that is his name the lion of sigmar okay anyways get out of here with that no and can baby tombow that crap i already i've already been there all right go ahead go ahead martin no it's people say it's the lore seeker not keeper no this is this is the the apology for the original lore master of hoeth and maybe they overdid it but apology accepted i love like i love everything about like when i first wrote lists i was like i want all the lore seekers and all the blade lords and i just want all of that and i you know and obviously better judgement went over and i diversified my list and stuff like that but like if i could just go with all that i probably would do that i just love it i love all the toys and all the fun stuff and the spells and the fighting and the magic and yep yeah so at any rate this guy's real interesting like he's a fantastic tech piece and at only 160 points that's why it's not that there aren't more powerful heroes or stuff like that like the tech on this guy is crazy all right for what he allows and like there will be w's you will put on the board simply by this guy existing regardless of whether or not he's allowed to take magic items you know even if he stays completely unique even if they they ruled it like the pitch battle profile statement that occurs over top of the points it says unique things count as named and blah blah blah whatever like that you will still put some w's up on the board solely because you've got this one guy on your list because he will hold a point he will be blade lord guarded you'll bubble wrap them and it won't matter you know because they're just your opponent will not be able to take the objective off of you uh i was corrected in the comments by the way um it's only lures it's on a two-plus plus and on a five four plus so uh 12 is not the right answer it's like uh you know a lot lot lot more depending on how many wounds of swordmasters you have yeah it's just it's a lot yes yeah he's again i i stand behind my statement he is the best hero in the history of aos uh there you go okay cool uh good stuff great tech piece uh please stay unique please don't break the game and fix that fix that okay uh so there we go the wind mage a little windmage uh he's real fast uh you know 60 inch move five up save he gets a little better against shooting he can like knock arrows back at people which is funny and cause mortal wounds he makes uh win he makes win chargers uh go faster if they start near him uh real near him uh like super near him which is cool and uh he's a wizard he actually has a pretty interesting spell uh his spell is kind of cool this is the first spell i've seen written like this there might be another one that exists somewhere but i don't remember any of the spells structured exactly like this so maybe that maybe the chat will know um but like the way his spell works is it has a casting value of five if successfully cast in your next shooting phase you can pick an enemy unit within 9 of the caster and roll it die on a 2 up they take d3 mortal wounds that's interesting because that allows him to like cast it somewhere zip forward 16 inches and then hit the dude he wants to hit with it like he doesn't have to be in range in the hero phase yeah but it's nine inches i understand it's it's a danger close spell uh but i mean it doesn't matter for reasons we'll talk about later in the combat phase when he's not engaged he's gonna go six inches backwards but like he's like i i think it's a bad spell i think i think i think patently it's a bad spell because it still has to double check to see if it'll fire off at d3 yes it's a two plus at close range at nine inches range like i just this guy's a five up save hard pass uh i think this guy goes that shows up in a ton of lists because of what he enables reasons i'll talk about in a minute like i agree i agree like i he was like him with a set of win chargers is in one of my lists so i i think that like i i don't think he's terrible i don't think i think that he shows up and lists but i think that his we i think the weaknesses that he has inherently make him very unappealing to me uh let me i want to answer a question because this is an interesting conversation this is going around so so john byrd said would anyone be seriously upset if models that were unique weren't allowed in competitive play yes absolutely i would be furious furious beyond reason and as would like a lot of people because in your head you're thinking of you're thinking of stuff but like i'm thinking of the mask half of my heroes in slaanesh are unique the mask celeste like no i bought those things because i want to play with my toys we're not they're not all archeon and stuff like that the mask is a perfectly reasonable unique named character and they're cool and they have flavor and character i want these characters in the world and i want to pilot them it's neat to pilot a named character and there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed in competitive play why we shouldn't be able to find a home and balance them that's just that's a complete over swing like i'm not trying to call you out john i'm just like there's there's a there's a ton of interesting named unique characters in the game that aren't like game breaking many of which are never taken most of them are honestly competitively bad right like light of ethereum comes to mind like there's only a few that actually are even worth putting on the table in competitive play yeah so in a tournament i want to be able to take the mask the mask has been it is the single best unit in sladesh period yeah and it's not because it's overpowering it's because it offers unique things right it's the other year the only only friend i have that's reasonably priced for what it does right so it's funny it's funny that you bring this up because um like there's an event that we regularly attend where you can't take unique characters right um and actually like it forced me to take a double take with my luminesce because over most of my heroes that i take in my luminous armies that i've built like on my on my list building are named heroes that's not true anymore that's not that's not a true fact of that that event you're talking about well it was at least at one point yeah that's that's raw that's not holy events and raw is very different like holy events used to to not have um named characters and like years ago four years ago yeah uh it's true i'm just acknowledging that those events do exist they have existed and and but the reality is it's it's difficult if that is the rule because it changes the entire way that many armies play 100 yeah sure and like and so like i may have a perfectly viable army competitively if i have a name character if it is not a name character it is not an uh character i it's not an army i can take to an event yeah sure so anyways that's so at any rate we got to be distracted there but let's go back to the wind mage he's cool 120 point wizard he's fine super fast i like his speed um like i'm down with him he's cool i like what he enables i think he's fine allows you to um take the wind lore if you're not if you're not taking tackles you have you have your gateway to the wind lord here yeah he's he's one he's your teleport enabler right because that's where that the new teleport spell is in that lore uh or checklist sure of course but i think yeah if you don't go ahead good morning no i'm saying it's like if you're not taking teclas this is your gateway into the wind lore for your army yeah that's true yeah and i i my honest answer is i think this dude will show up in a lot of lists not because of what's printed on this scroll but because of the the tools the tech he's enabling enabling the teleport enabling the win the win chargers to go faster right like he's just doing a lot of other stuff that isn't written on that scroll and like yeah sure he's five wounds on a five-up save but in that army if you're shooting at this dum-dum after turn one or two like okay like you know what i mean like that's that's fine uh and yeah so john's point is should a model ever be so powerful that its inclusion warps the power level of a faction and allows it to play in a competitive space it's a great discussion i think that's honestly a whole show like what should be the power level of unique characters that's a great show well can i can i jump in i want to flip that question we don't have to engage it but i want to ask and said the question of should unique abilities ever be exclusively available on named characters that aren't on other units sure a great thing to talk about in that show yeah there you go okay uh like there's there really is this this that that the interesting thing that the lore seeker triggered there could be like a a whole show in and of itself because the presence of named characters and how prolific they are does raise interesting questions about how they get used okay yep oh we're here at last we're here yes boys tuck in severus lord of the seventh win the fox spirit in every furries uh moment of celebration that they have representation in this game so uh that's not said with judgment you live your life okay you do you uh so the unique one is a hero the non-unique one is not a hero very important to understand i'm gonna i only have seventh scroll up because we can just talk about we can you can just subtract two abilities from him and get the non name yeah he is the most mobile unit in the history of age of sigmar maybe ever martin i'm going to tell you a story all right martin sorry martin i you know back in the day i used to play 40k did you know that um vaguely but yeah long time ago i used to play 40k i played during third edition i had an imperial guard army and you know what i loved in imperial guard martin um i'm gonna say rough riders uh you're not wrong but also tanks i love tanks tanks are cool right like who doesn't wanna play tanks tanks are sweet they have big giant cannons on them right and one of my favorite tanks was the basilisk and the basilisk yes had the super long gun like it was the world war one looking long gun right yeah kind of looked like a world war one type tank same kit so wrong today i'm sure it is probably the same thing no it is it is cool it's a great kit i love that tank i might go buy why i want to paint one sometime just for fun anyways it uh that gun had a range of 120 inches 10 feet martin 10 feet 10. it is all it is only surpassed by the death strike which i believe has a range of 96 feet there you go it didn't didn't exist when i was there 10 feet 10 10 feet man and i used to think what a funny thing that is that's hilarious i can shoot tables at the tournament next to me i can just start artillery shelling adjacent tables right and effectively the range is just unlimited and i love that the normal fox so the normal fox spirit not severeth his maximum move if you put everything into him he can move a hundred and twenty one inches that's right he can outpace the basilisk he can go from bell to belt like he can go across the table back and into the mid board before he stops in a single round right how wonderful uh so there you go uh i love now that's obviously an insane thing it's never really gonna be that but i thought that was a fun little factoid uh there you go people are asking you the death strike the death strike missile is a meme it's apocalypse only i believe um or you can use it 40k now you use it to shoot someone's figure case in the parking lot sure of course yeah anyways let's talk about zebra themselves yeah 24-inch move five-up save ten wounds the uh non-named version the non-hero version has eight wounds still in a five-up save uh does have a five-up after save let's talk about the rules with this guy though that matter because he this guy does a lot of stuff so many rules in addition he subtracts two inches from the distance enemy models can pile in to a minimum of one well they're within three of this model uh remember he can pile in in any direction uh so he can like charge in and then pull out to three inches and make it so like if he does it right the guys on the edge can only pile an inch and he can kind of cause a traffic jam of people not being able to like pile around the people he's locking in effectively uh like most of these guys he does have a three inch range and so he himself can still strike people if he's just toeing the line at the edge of the three inch line uh so that's a that's cool uh by the way we haven't i don't know if we've officially announced it but the pile in wars have begun yeah uh begun the pile in wars yep uh someone asked how does he move 121 just very quickly there's all kinds of spells and other tricks that this army has just to like double move all kinds of crap just zero to go it's being under the speed of haish and then using the helon command ability and being in the battalion is the short answer yeah yeah i don't feel anybody like it's true you'll have to trust me the math is correct um so uh when he in addition uh you roll a dice for each enemy unit that's within uh three inches of this model when it makes a charge move on a three-up they take one mortal wound and get an egg one to hit so that's cool so he can when he charges into people he'll also give them neg1 to hit further making sure that he can kind of stay alive if he ever does go into melee which doesn't necessarily have to for reasons we'll talk about a second uh he can scour so uh at the start of the charge phase you can pick a faction terrain piece and roll a die on a two-up you destroy it but then he can't get like one inch uh yeah has to be within an inch of him yep yeah so i mean it like sorry obr your obelisks are just dead because like i would absolutely destroy the obr obelisk because i could probably float him up to within an inch of that thing and still keep him really safe because of the way they always put that thing right in the center of the board right so like that thing's dead uh but you know for the most part most terrain pieces are pretty bunkered in people's territory uh and so it's not gonna be super often used and the fact is it doesn't like pick up the terrain piece it just removes its special rules so like who cares if they destroy your idk boat like all right again idk boats are annoying because they're just a physical object in the way not because they sort of might do hit you for a mortal wound once sometime uh after he makes a normal move uh include it this i love this okay after this model makes a normal move begin parens including if it moves at the end of the shooting phase close parens which is not a normal move [Laughter] like what how when that's not you can't include that normal moves is a defined thing in this game it is okay and then they just said and also for no reason also jack in this other weird movement he has like which is also an faq question yeah which i mean they're treating that other movement as normal move which means they they can't move within three inches of an enemy it can't like it it it adopts all the limitations of moves it just didn't need to be there for this but anyways so he can float over people pick an enemy unit uh he rolls a die on a three-up they take d3 mortal wounds so that's cool yeah uh spear of the wind at the end of the shooting phase this model can make a normal move of 12 inches but it cannot run or retreat uh in addition this model can't in addition says like 17 times on a scroll uh this model can retreat and still charge later in the same turn so that's cool which is actually really good because if you did want to keep bouncing people as they start trying like you're holding them at an inch pile in and they're getting stuck so he can keep floating out and coming back in and hitting them and then sneaking out so he can kind of be bouncing off of them like this slowing down holding limiting their movement things like that right keeping other pieces safe like he can kind of do that and then you could have like some wind writers at three engines and they can't really get to them and the wind riders also have a three-inch reach blah blah blah blah it's a lot of complicated stuff going on there again this is what i'm talking about with skill floor because if you want to use that huracan and stuff well you have to like understand this like razor sharp positioning be using all these pieces exactly correctly piling into the exact right place with the entire thing then retreating out then blah blah blah and so on and so forth the severith cannot use helon the regular uh guy can use the helon ability that's who that's why i said the normal fox can move 121 inches uh so uh and then in your hero phase this model is within 12 inches of a friendly wind maze you can also heal it so cool neat um the yeah that's guys the normal version of him by the way loses the destroy faction terrain and loses the i do uh d3 mortals on a three-up when i move over people he's also two fewer wounds one less rend on the bow yes he is only rend neg two and eight wounds instead of ren to take three and two wounds oh you know what gentlemen this severath himself is locked to yemetrica there you go okay yes final thing to say this dude has a bucket load of rules he is 300 points uh what's your take i do appreciate that it's a more um it's not a avalanor and the normal spirit of the mountain the spirit the normal spirit of the mountain i'd argue is one of is the most overcasted war scroll in this faction like just the value that i think avalanor brings to the table is light years beyond what the generic version can do i agree um i've said i think i'm on record saying i think avalon or the named one needs to go up 10 or 20 points and then not named it needs to come down 10 or 20 points okay continue no it needs to come down like much more than that but anyway um sephiroth and the wind spirit like the value between them is much more nuanced and you you gain like it's it's a much the tougher decision to make and i appreciate that i appreciate how they made the two scrolls relatively similar in power there's real decisions to be made between these two units and i like that and in fact like severa severath hasn't shown up in any of my lists but the generic fox has yeah so i mean we need to address the elephant in the room with this guy tom's video froze which is funny because he looks very contemplative now we can still hear you find tom you're just your video froze which is funny uh that's amazing um my guess is your your laptop's about to die because you forgot to plug it in no i'm at 100 okay yo that's where that usually happens anyway we need to talk about the elephant in the room which is the off-turn 12-inch float that both he and his little non-named brother have meaning that it becomes almost impossible to charge this guy in melee uh we all hope together that they faq that of course because yes this guy can float 12 inches in every shooting phase not just yours uh that should be faq to only be your shooting phase of course uh of course but otherwise yes he becomes nearly impossible to charge because somebody moves up to within three inches then you float back 12 you're out of charge range now it's just that that's the math folks no you could just write it may only be charged by marauders no because they see you're still not within 12 to declare the charge but you may be within 12 declare the charge of another unit and then you just roll the hard dice that i always build has a 3d6 charge it can declare out to 18 inches yes exactly as it stands now if they keep the you can float in every phase if they keep that like if that's he's immune to melee he's very very immune is strong but it's not that wrong like it's close right like you have to trap him hopes oh yeah yeah and you're gonna start like trying to surround him and and just like which i love the idea of like i don't hate that idea sure uh it that's a funny question stephen powell so per scale how far is 121 inches and how fast is that in real life i wish we had that table oh my god that would be so fantastic if we had like because you could do the dnd you know sort of things everybody has fun doing that of like how fast you actually running well six inches would be 30 feet equivalent right i guess that's what we're saying if that's are we just using the d and d metric here so six inches no five inches would be 35 inches yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay normal humans move five inches so if you're saying that's a 30 foot move right if we're going to use the d and d metric right right okay it would be 300 feet at a 100 move uh well if it's five inch base then basically times that by five right let's just let's just keep it simple here so he moves 150 feet or you take it up yeah whatever yeah it's 120 divided by 5. we haven't even gotten to the wind writers yet times 30 that's the math okay so it'd be super fast he runs real fast yeah um so yes you got to go on a little fox hunt and try to trap and surround him and it's very hard uh so the um the answer is we hope they change that competitively i think this guy's interesting i'm not sure like assuming they fix the float 12 inches rule okay assuming that is fixed as it should be right then a uh that's a that's a good point yeah people people are working out the math and channel yeah exactly you've started something here okay at any rate uh assuming they fixed that i honestly think this guy's probably fine like it's weird for me to say that but he has a lot of rules like he has a ton of weird rules but his damage is like it's okay it's not you know it's fine it's 250 to 300 points like it it's doing the appropriate scale damage right even shooting for what he is yeah he's four attacks on twos and threes his rend is fantastic yes right and he has and he does d3 damage which is very swingy right uh which so it's sort of unreliable damage um yeah i'm not sure that you know i i think this guy surprisingly somehow i think this guy's probably okay like i think he's good he's real good but i'm not sure he's like he's not getting overpowered or over the top i think that a lot of like i think it's easy to look at all these ridiculous rules he has which he does have a lot but i think that like if your army does have any kind of shooting and again if the 12 inches off turn gets fixed it's not that hard to chase down this guy and kill him because like he's gotta go somewhere his bow is only an 18-inch range right right he does actually have to be pretty danger close to shoot at you so if like he's trying to i mean that's not true because he's going to shoot and move so he's always going to move to 30 inches yeah i understand that like yeah he can it might my point is the target he wants to shoot at he might not be at 18 inches for right but he's going to move up 24 shoot 18 and then move back 12. he'll be 30. my point is if he's trying people the way people would want to use him four shots into a unit of 30 dudes it's not cutting the mustard who cares right the way you want to use this guy is shooting heroes or something like that he's going to remove strategic pieces so he's on threes and threes effectively in that case right yep yep and you know like at that point his damage is again it's good it's not bad it's good uh certainly against a four up save he'll he'll resolve a decent amount of damage but like then so let's say he's gotta come up to like 12 inches to get your hero because you've bunkered him six inches behind the line right and then he floats 24 inches away there's plenty of stuff in the game that will go catch that sure right yep yep so like yes he's tough to catch um and if you have shooting if you yourself have shooting this guy's in like you know he's in danger right uh like obr catapults are like destroy my my obelisk we'll show you foul villain like f5 up save is gonna be a bad time for him when those five damage rocks start coming in right mm-hmm that make the same attacks he does on on almost the same profile only five damage and no rend but the same twos and threes four attacks or whatever uh yeah he's like despite how much this dude was hyped and i think he is good he's one guy right yeah he's one guy on a five-up save with a five-up after save like i think he is annoying right he will frustrate people and some armies will be much more prone to being frustrated by him so you're saying that he's gonna he's going to be a highly mobile ranged attacking piece that will frustrate the opponent yeah so it sounds pretty like banging on all cylinders of him oh and restricting pylons to one edge sure if he wants to go get in melee which again is it it's he has some good communal features he may not he may not have a choice like he may be sure like somebody may come at him but all that to say that all sounds pretty empty to me he he very much could be very npe i think it will depend a lot on what your force happens to consist of right yeah but yeah you know he's i think he's probably pointed correct he's gonna frush be frustrating but i think it's actually the right number of points no i would agree with that it feels right like i haven't played with him but it feels right just on on the read and knowing how he would play yes and i agree ko will like laugh at this guy because there's yeah i can't it was like oh what do you got over there yeah bring in the long guns let's get rid of this dude okay so yeah it it should be noted that he is not a monster no he's not um so they can get cover and they can and they can stand on and he can stand on the shrine sure because he is he is a hero uh he's not a wizard though no he's got oh he's right yes that's good but he can he can stand up terrain which is fine or he can garrison normal buildings uh that is true he could go he could go hop in a building okay let's keep moving hurricane wind chargers there we go all right battle line and helon incredible mobility moderate range damage but very hard to control good damage if they go all in i will point out that even outside of helon if you factor in the damage from their bow and then they charge and make their full attacks they do more average damage against a four up save than a keeper of secrets i see no issues there that seems completely reasonable i i i'm sorry i couldn't help myself with that one but that math is uh fun um they their bow in melee does not get the helon bonus i want to be super clear here okay because like the it will get the missile weapon when they shoot they will get it but they do not get the plus one attack with their wind charger bow melee weapon profile because helon's ability specifically says missile weapons missile weapons has a very discreet definition on this thing it is this thing that's why it's under this this area called missile weapons okay no but now siri wants to talk to me uh so uh yeah that's fun slightly higher damage than uh than a keeper of secrets for 130 points seems completely reasonable uh and they do have redonkulous movement shenanigans when you put them in the battalion we'll talk about the battalion in a moment uh yeah they're real good we're not even three units yet no i know we've got a lot that's why we got to keep moving these guys are good best new unit that was introduced super potent again their damage as though even though i said it is slightly better than a keeper of secrets which is true they their damage is still like okay by the way what that is is about 7.15 or something like that all in okay so it's not incredible just to lay that out right their bow does have neg to rend in combat because again they turn their bow sideways it's a kill shot that's why it's red two it's kill shot uh and uh yeah they can uh they can move over terrain normally as they can fly they can also fly and become move 16 if they start near a wind mage and they can fly when they pile in they fly a lot is the point uh and um yeah and they ignore cover uh yeah the uh the story i tell here all the time is in magic there was a creature called a wind drake okay and a wind drake was a two-two flying creature for three which is very unimpressive in magic and yet he became known as the win drake and lots of different versions of two two flying blue creatures for three got printed and they all collectively just got called wind drakes because often times blue decks would win by simply controlling you and then pinging you for two with a windrake every round and just slowly killing you chinese trip torture style or whatever right just two two two two two and you're dead uh so sometimes even a humble two two flyer can get there this guy i could i love that in magic they were called wind drakes and it became win drake hence win chargers uh there's no d on this war scroll my my war scroll didn't come with d i don't know they don't have the d because they gave it to you so uh that's where this unit comes from it's after midnight we can say stuff like that now or every week someone asked at the very beginning of the chat like i don't really have many thoughts on them they they play in a way that um i i like i really was like more of the combined arms the venari stuff like that um that really hooked me this this plays in a way that just you you almost entirely play around your opponent like the pilot the the pilon wars are currently like they are winning the pile in wars sure they pile out they they they file in whatever direction they want instead of piling in the normal way uh but someone asked the very beginning of the chat like i want to say two or three hours ago um are these supposed to be like like mongols it's like no these are our allerian reavers yeah like they've been they've been bit by bit kind of remaking some of the units from old high elves these are your fast cav yeah yeah that's the laureen reverse will be my counts as there you go for this unit again one of the better units probably in the meta period right now they have everything they need to win between their their huracan ability and their speed these are an incredibly incredibly powerful unit like yep to control the battlefield with their movement um and because you know so one of the uh invinces like army how to you know lose friends or whatever one of his one of the tactics that he proposed was moving up three of these units like to to hold objectives or to screen or whatever and like you'll get into one of them but even if you to all three as after that activation because you double activate the other two just leave combat yep and they can do that all game right like that's the key you got to think about imagine i have three units of of wind chargers okay i've got three units of wind chargers blocking your space to where you want to come forward to the objectives you charge all three of them okay it's your turn so you get to activate first okay i'll activate and i'll attack this one maybe you kill that unit of five dudes maybe you don't maybe i'm in seyer and i double pentiums now there are three i'm safe okay so you don't kill all of them my turn i activate the other two wind chargers i pile away six inches so even with your charge you can't get back into combat against them right you'd have to have a three-inch range weapon which most people don't have like giants could still catch them or six in enemy wardens or six-inch violent yes most units will just be like oh okay and i just i walk away unscathed and then you're like okay are you is your turn done awesome now i'm gonna you know move in such a way as to be a hindrance or not right now and we do it again yeah and we do it again and you charge me and i just leave yeah i just leave i just spend the whole game going nope nope nope and pulling them back and i'm just i'm limiting you to basically going nowhere every round right and so that one hero or that small unit on an objective you just can't get there right because there's always this unit in the way that you're gonna charge and then it'll just pile back six inches and stay out of reach of you all game right and heaven forbid set for author whoever is in there who's nearby who could reduce your pile into one inch yep because like i just really want to make sure we're driving this home like i can alpha bunker you in with these guys sit three ounces off your line you charge me like one maybe one dies maybe one doesn't the other two just leave six like leave six inches right and then on my turn i go back to three inches away and wait so you're locked in combat again right and so like i've made your move speed of your army three inches right right because you can go back in block them in combat and then as soon as they would attack you know like and then pile a pile back out it's just yep i hope you guys are going to be able to each weapon that's going to be really frustrating yes like that this is what i'm talking about this is how you this is this is like a key strat in my how to lose friends and alienate people army right because meanwhile what i'm doing is holding all the points behind you right and just winning the game like i set up my lore seeker he's holding a point he's fine you know like again if you can shoot him down great you shoot him down but for melee focused armies like whatever what happened and you just spent two turns killing five models right yes exactly because the set you get to pick one okay you double me i go back six inches you're three away you charge me again okay right activate one you kill one of my maybe you kill one of my units maybe you don't you you get one unit activation and when that one unit activation is done i'm gonna take the other two out of combat right you cannot kill more than one unit per your per combat phase period yeah unless you get into more than three units at a time right and more than three hours at a time which by the way i would make it so you're getting into three units at a time and like ideally you've just take like five units of three or something like or sorry you don't say five units yeah right because yeah you just and you just layer them so that like you can continue to stagger and delay and yeah yes yeah and as we said they always get better range and better rent in combat because they turn them sideways it's a kill shot that's it's written in the lore i'm pretty sure page page uh 742 of the illuminati realm lord's book the win chargers turn their bow sideways for kill shots okay uh ballasties let's talk about the ballasties uh decent but reasonable ranged output probably compares poorly to sentinels but it's an easy throw in unit at 100 points uh they have two attack space they go to three if they don't move four in the battalion i don't think you'll take the battalion very often for reasons we'll talk about a minute um the shooting's okay you know 30 inch range is good certainly that's very great um but you know threes and threes neg two d3 damage yeah yeah they're fine right i mean like yep they get a six-up ward save okay yeah like that's fine they they can once per battle make somebody neg one to hit so it's more neg one to hit uh coming out of these guys another opportunity at neg1 to hit which is great this is again going back to the skill floor thing right like being in shining company and knowing when you're gonna get charged and then making sure you know that unit's gonna charge you know so you hit them with the neg one to hit so then when they come into your shining company you're neg two or an egg three because the other thing's going on because you've also got a big stone mountain guy hanging around and he's giving him an egg one and suddenly like now you're holding your point with an egg three to be hit in that one turn that you really need to hold it for and if you execute that at the right moment and have the units in the right position then you just win out of hand if you do it wrong you lose right like that's so i think this will show up as a winner in a lot of lists because it's neat to have a neg one to hit kind of on tap for when you want it and it is the cheapest unit in the book i i just i only i only just now realized it's the cheapest unit in the book [Laughter] i loved it i was like wait a minute he's right yeah it is i mean like in building lists i kept having 100 points left or something round about that and i was like well the the scenario like the one like the one scribe is hundred points that's true yes he is the other he is the other what would you rather what would you rather have an auto uh eclipse every other turn or a or a crossbow that doesn't turn sideways in melee i'm taking other things for my for my all right you'll find 20 more points and put in 10 more bodies somewhere sure uh so anyways yeah but this is cool i i think it's fine it's fine listen it's fine it does bother our things it does both thrower things it's not like crazy it's not blowing up units it's damages again it's you know d3 so fine like okay it doesn't doesn't break rules no it's this is just like yeah that's why it's so weird to talk about because it's just like okay like a ballista sure it shoots like three times on threes and threes at neg two d3 damage so it's like fair so it's just like a it's like a ballista like a normal artillery piece that we would expect to see in an army yeah okay cool like all right cool yeah it's fine venari bladelords all right all right here we go let's talk about them greatswords uh we talked about why their rules around their swords are stupid i stand behind that i don't care that they're actually probably not the best scroll but that's fine uh they they have sun metal weapons but they don't actually have sun metal weapons i know on the scroll it says sun metal weapons that's a lie i really want to know the backstory to these like was that pulled at the last moment because it was too powerful i have to believe the answer is yes in like late stage play testing they were like oh oh oh it's way too powerful if these guys can swing in in chopper mode with with sun metal weapons so we got to pull that um their main role is as the bodyguard for cenari which i think is actually really good because as mentioned they do bodyguard uh scenario models on a 2-up they take their their wounds which is really which is really strong especially because you have scenario like the lore seeker you want to keep alive they're pretty average to low average on damage um but you do get them as battle line one unit of these as battleline for each scenario hero and they're 120 points for 10 wounds on a four up save uh that has a four up shrug against spells and endless spells which is cool uh i've already talked about their weapons and why their weapons are stupid and i hate having and i hate attacking with these things yeah um can i say my thing yeah go man yeah because this has already been a long show and i don't want to drag it down too much but it was like this this this like um i was i was hoping this was the opportunity for us to get a true hammer like glass cannon unit sure like th this game already punishes elite infantry enough yeah like it's going to be five to ten bases in a unit like for their max 15 they're small bases um there's technic they're technically slow i get that you can ramp that up but like i um i would think the balancing factor is building so much around them to create the delivery system like either between tecla says the umbrella to protect them from damage and then buffing their speed would be the balancing factor of saying let them doing ridiculous amounts of damage but they are ablative wounds for a wizard dressed up as samurai they are i was i wanted this to actually be the killing power like a killing unit in the army and it's not and i i yeah i wanted more i they are worth the points of uh for the utility they provide as that bodyguard absolutely like it is not it is not quite a bad unit um but yeah i did not get what i wanted out of this unit sure tom you like these guys right i like the stock yeah sure like i just i i like them i do and like i wish that i could in good conscience run more of them like the list that i that i'm leaning towards only has 10 but i'd love to run 30 of them i just i can't in good conscience like they don't do enough as martin is kind of saying to actually have to to fill all of those other roles right so um but i think 10 are great especially either as a bodyguard to the twins yep um or as a bodyguard to a lor like a lore keeper gentlemen um i added a slide since i shared this with you earlier would you like to see a tragedy in acts sure [Laughter] a story of tragedy in 2x which i will call the pain of testing on the top of this slide which will come onto your screen in just a moment here is the current profile of the venari bladelords and the selangor fiend bloods i use both of these because they're both instructive [Music] on the bottom of these two scrolls on the bottom here i have the rules for the that unit as it existed when we got a preview of it in mayari's purifiers and the dread pageant and in both cases i think both this is the one place where luminesce and slaanesh are completely combined we stand together that it probably would have just been a better unit had it actually just been the thing that was there in the actual preview from the underworld's warband miari's purifier is great sword he's like the greatest greatsword because he has instead of dealing with this dumb perfect strike flouria blows stupid nonsense right okay yep instead to attack these and twos two attacks twos and twos neg won one damage but he has sun metal right so doesn't have the rend two of the perfect strike or the auto hit doesn't have the big sweepy thing but two attacks on twos and twos neg one with sun metal meaning they can get super choppy and get pushed to like a five up right by somebody like the lord regent sure same thing by the way with the fiend bloods if we if we had just got like that profile of four attacks on force three's night two two damage for this for the fiend bloods instead of the joke of a scroll we got everybody would have been happy this is what i call a tragedy in 2x right we all got excited by this little spoiling of information it was like oh this is what we're going to get these dudes are cool like okay that would be i love these guys i am in like that martin that would have been your hammer unit you wanted yes absolutely and instead we like got to the real scroll and and they lost their way right they were just like no let's give him this bodyguard rule and we gotta have something to shrug the magic and the magic flag yeah banners and and we'll have them bodyguard people and uh uh doug doug could tell you that um you know even even in warmer fantasies swordmasters were always the secret police and guardians of the mage so it makes sense that they have like a mage bodyguard rule i just wish that wasn't the main attraction right yeah get rid of the spell thing like i think the right answer for this unit is get rid of the spell thing move the body guarding to a four up so it's not as reliable right yep uh and then turn their get rid of their dumb dual weapon profile and just give them standard sun metal grade swords and move their points up to like 140 or something like that done yeah there you go now you've got a great elite fun uh hammer swordmaster unit yeah yep yeah okay but that's not what we got okay is it at the end of the minutes i think that is the end of the year that said i still like them like sure i oh they're in my list it's just yeah yeah like um i think we're all just sad that they're not what we were hoping they were sure you know what my big like my my two stage tragedy was i really want to talk about battalions but sure go ahead that's fine was knowing was like realizing what their role was in the bat on the battlefield yeah and then discovering that tech list didn't have the scenario keyword sure sure all right uh battalions so new battalions we can wrap these through these pretty quickly we're almost through this folks appreciate everybody hanging in there hey thank you all for hanging in there you know what i like all of you you know what you could like this show just hit the button okay so at any rate uh new battalion there you go good man the huracanan temple uh which consists of severus uh or the regular dude uh the wind mage and one to three win chargers units in that move six inches in every combat phase regardless of enemies that's not what it says it says they count as charging every round as long as they're near a hero right what it means is that in every combat phase yours and the enemies every combat phase regardless of whether there's enemies near i could have some wind chargers just standing over here all by their lonesome nowhere near an enemy in the enemy turn they just move six inches because when you charge you always are able to pile in and when they pile in they can always move six inches and they can pile in any direction so every combat phase every unit of wind chargers and the wind mage is assuming they're near a hero and then all the wind mages and sevreth and the fox if he's near a hero just get to go six inches well thank you john in any direction yes in any direction this is the best battalion in the book it is the best battalion in the book it's 180 points worth it every time this is like the core of every list i've built out with this army when i was just playing with armies i'm not gonna play this army but like if i was boy oh boy would this be my foundation every time uh ridiculous ridiculous uh i am officially trying to get rid of a boggart because this is ridiculous okay uh your next one is the starshard battery which is the calagrave mr pen pointy shoes uh and three to five ballasty uh and they get plus one attack as long as they're kind of near each other is what has to happen and they get plus one attack and their warding lantern becomes a five up okay yeah nate if you're if you're heavy in on ballista it could be a cool strat i mean it's very fragile that's the problem with with ballista right it's like it's five wounds on a low save with a six up feeling a pain or a five appeal no pain [Music] like i started here it's funny i started with a bladeboard host um because i love having uh you know like i can slap a hero in there and there's a lot of scenario or fenrari heroes that i want to take well i i uh uh i just want to ask something and this is i think this is where the the hidden value of blade lords comes in um because of the the introduction of the lord regent we have that fast that fast cavalry hero which can tank a little bit um and another thing like we no longer need to lower our drops as much as possible right unless we're like kind of taking teclas so the question then becomes it's like you you have to have a higher level of scrutiny on the battalions in general before you want to take them they could just be more bodies now the question um the main penalty is that you don't you know obviously you don't have the choice of who who takes top of one but that that leaves you vulnerable to your heroes getting shot and you no longer have to worry about that as much because most of your heroes will be guarded by a unit of bladelords which is not only bodies even if it's only five bodies but it's also cheaper than every battalion in the book sure right is it very cheap yeah and it should say that like if you're taking a couple of those heroes like they are making the bladelord's battle line so you are filling out both like probably critical heroes you were already gonna take and battle line with the blade lord host um thank you very much to john and isaac you were correct i that is something i misread and put in my notes uh which is they don't it doesn't cause an extra plus one attack it's a replacement text so it just replaces the other text on the thing that gives them plus one attack so they're still at three thank you thank you everyone i apologize for the confusion and as well i don't think it's a bad deal like honestly if you look at the numbers most of the time i wouldn't do the precise strike most of the time i would do the ao you're doing sweeping blows so suddenly you're on threes rerolling ones yeah right now again you know 50 attacks off of 5 or 10 model or you know so many whatever many models reroll ones i mean that'll begin to do some work like that's not a bad bonus to have yeah because like especially if i'm getting a lot of attacks it would not be unreasonable to spend a command point and get re-roll once sure and so that means that every time those units are fighting you know you can save those command points for something else i i don't understand i don't know it's it's it's fine if you're going in on like if you're gonna have inari scenario heroes which by the way you are right like yeah just say that so like one of them can go in here right and you and if you were to have like if you if you like the idea of blade lords and are willing to have two units of them and you're going to have another venari or cenari hero in your list right then like obviously not in this battalion but that means that both of those blade lord units you take are battle line yep right i mean there you go like you've taken the two heroes you probably were gonna take like a lore seeker and somebody maybe the twins or something right yep and then you've gotten you filled out two or three battling right there it's not bad yep with the cheap battalion it isn't battalion which is nice that is like we cannot underestimate the value of a hundred point battalion like that is cheap yo by by the standards of like most of these battalions okay yep yeah so they're fine i think a lot of the old battalions will still be used as well and we'll like the the traditional battalion will still be used as well you could get out of like this battalion with under 500 points uh yeah that is true yes that is true i mean that's that ain't bad no the min cost for this is 440 points right yeah like there's not a lot of battalions in the game that you can get out that jeep sure yeah that's fair no it is a very good point tom it is a very good point uh and that could be 440 points again that's filling out like some actually valuable stuff yep okay cool oh geez summary finally gentlemen we come to it to the end of the show the summary of [Music] uh and the closing on the luminesce 2021 uh here's my summary but i i want i'll go first and i want you guys to wrap us up and then we'll call it a night the new units spells and options make this a full army with multiple viable lists the new spell lure is has some nice options including a teleport which is great because now with a teleport one of the things we didn't mention before but it's relevant that you can return units to shining company right if they break out you can teleport them and reset them up in shining company still not sure it's something i'm gonna super do but it's a it's an option which is good uh armies can now be built with extremely high mobility effectively the highest mobility in the game the army does lack some hammers but it can do damage but it does have to rely on synergy and or multiple combined attacks the new terrain piece could be very impactful between the command points and the ability to control board space and there are a lot of potential faqs we are waiting for answers on it is a powerful army probably in the top six of the game it will have a lot of npe baked into it it is an overcooked book it has too many rules that should have been cut out it is certainly not unbeatable but i think it will be powerful that's my summary martin what are your thoughts yeah yeah so i just have a ques um for anyone who's gonna get this far i still don't understand the bin versus sin argument because that tells me you have either two options a trash bin or to sim and i don't understand how one is better than the other rob found a rhyming scheme he likes and i i didn't discuss it at all i completely disagree with rob's entire framing device he was talking about some good ideas but he used a terrible framing device for it because it came up in one of his shows and he really liked the rime of it it's a bad framing device rob and if you want to i'll come on the show and i'll give you and like it just should be talked about differently anyways go ahead yeah yeah again no um i i um i said this online earlier this morning um how it's like we we the play style did not change it is still relatively defensive reactive you have ways to change that a little bit but it's mostly going to be playing around your opponent not really um taking proactive action like aggressively with units that do lots of damage up front um and in some ways i appreciate that um there's just so many options not only with how to build your army now but with how to play every turn out all these different levers you can pull all these knobs you can turn um some of that is good some of it is way too much yes it is it is gloriously burnt uh if that could if that's what it just said luminesce gloriously burnt i'll put that on a t-shirt to replace my mountain stance shirt sure uh yeah yeah it it's uh i i look forward to a time in the relatively near future when there are events again um on in mass so we can really see how long people stick with the army uh continue to either like see maybe do well or not do well i'm look i'm looking forward to to that yep yeah i'm gonna reiterate what everyone else has said here um the only other things that i would add is that i think this is going to be a notoriously difficult army to balance moving forward sure um because it is going to like it is a low body army high like technical side where a lot of things are resting on the abilities themselves of the book and of the war scrolls not on points and so what's gonna happen is you're gonna get into a situation where all the mpe that this army generates can't be adjusted for by points right um and instead what you're going to have is you're going to have a lot of like people are going to want to adjust it with points and if you do that it'll become unplayable and so just because like it can't like there are some things that you just can't adjust for and you're just you'll get to a tipping point of having not enough bodies to even be able to play the game and so i uh i am concerned about the long-term health of this army either as a meta-crushing monstrosity if if the points shift positively in its direction or an unplayable mess if it shifts the other way and so in true blue fashion it's really hard to balance yeah control has always been the hardest thing for magic to work out right right because two is way too good it's the best spell in the entire game counter spell of four is trash that nobody uses in a deck right like right yeah right and so where is that middle ground and three isn't actually the right answer it's like 2.5 well we can't get to 2.5 so then what do we have to do in order to make it like too good not not too good but good enough um and so i i think that in the long run i have serious concerns about just the literally the army of abilities that are sitting in the in the battle tome and on the war scrolls and i just don't know that there's an easy fix there um i i'll say this i love the army um i love the way that it plays i love all the tools that it brings like i said i can file off numbers and do head swaps and stuff like that that's fine um it actually now ha it now feels like a whole army if you go and watch our other review one of my critiques and the reason why i didn't take the army was because i said it didn't feel done it felt incomplete um and this is why it's because it was and now we have the whole book um at least this version of the whole book and i'm uh i'm overwhelmed by the options sure yeah i look forward to you getting your thousand points ready so we can take it to to holy havoc at the end of the year uh it's going to be a great tournament and make everyone just hate us is that really well last time i had slindash so everybody hated me while you were playing fun night hunt this time i'll be playing a fun army so there we go that's true all right well thank you so much everybody for watching this was a long one i hope this was helpful i hope we got into it i hope we gave some insights and more than just you know reading the scrolls off the page or something we try to really make sure we're breaking things down and giving you insights we are going to have to see what happens how the faqs come out lots of uncover there martin thank you sir so much for being here with us so late on a weeknight all of you out there for sticking with us you're all the champions the true heroes don't forget to hit that like button on your way out it does make it uh easier for other people to find the channel the show if you haven't subscribed already hey please do uh we'd love to see you back next week we'll be back uh covering the rest of the stuff in broken realms that isn't luminous as well as some of the narrative uh so that's gonna be a lot of fun don't worry we will make the narrative part a its own little spoilery part uh but it's gonna be fun to discuss uh so we hope to see you then but as always thank you so much for watching we'll see you next wednesday [Music] you

Channel: Vince Venturella

Views: 26,416

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Id: TOq2osBTcKQ

Length: 214min 17sec (12857 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 07 2021