Veterans History Project - Allen Shannon

hello my name is Pat Allen and today is September 25th and we are here at the Hamilton the Cincinnati Hamilton County Library in Cincinnati Ohio and we are here to interview the Vietnam veteran for the Library of Congress and the program is conducted here in Cincinnati by Brian powers and today we have the pleasure of interviewing Allen Shannon ok mr. Shannon how are you doing thank you for doing this interview for us you've got the name out there on your shirt is that what most people will know you by yeah and more seven calmly I'll do me to call you al or Alan allons allons okay all right well before we get into interviewing you about your military service I'd like to talk to you about your background where you're born and all things like that now where where were you born and when I was born in Cincinnati Ohio November 8 1948 and what was your father's name our summons Jana danger mother Sarah and what was your mother's maiden name sir Sarah Horton Horton all right where were they from they were from Mississippi you have any idea when they got married what year all right so you you were born here in Cincinnati and did you go to school here in Cincinnati yes rather elementary school what elementary school did you go to which was Garfield elementary over in North Cummings running and after you got out of elementary school did you go to high school yes where did you go to high school and for how long I went to Hugh's he was high and I went as far as the tenth grade and for some reason now I wasn't getting you know I I don't know what it was I wasn't getting what I thought I've needed out of school by the time you know so you dropped out of school what and what did you do I went into it I went into a into the Job Corps and took up a trade in high school when you're in high school did you did you work any place outside of school no didn't have any jobs and our job all right so you went to Job Corps and where we said with that in Cincinnati no that was in Edison New Jersey I went up there back in 66 I think and I spent a year of the year by the year twelve my flat every 12 months what what how did you find out about job corps well I was looking for some time a trade school to get into and the Job Corps was at that time was the only thing available as far as I knew all right and how did you get to New Jersey well after I signed up for a job Cordia they flew us up they flew me up there and took up the tree well started a trade and with what trade did you started went into Auto Body auto body repair and I finished the course but then yeah like I said when I come back it was it was hard to get a job back in the 60s and seven sixties you know at that time all right so you you leave job corps and you come back to Cincinnati and you look for a job I can't find one so what do you do they was talking about the war at the time and me and a few of my friends that was in the neighborhood we we signed up for for the Marine Corps and some of them went to the Navy you know but we always enlisted looking for something you know something better something they after country to help ourselves so you mister you chose the Marines yeah why did you choose the Marines as opposed to one other service well I don't know I think I like about the pride of it all and you know together this you know we're gonna drive on that wherewhere was the office where you enlisted interns right here downtown Cincinnati we was at the Federal Building all right after enlistment how long was it before you went to training a week a week from that from December 14 they sent us to California so you're in California then during Christmas you mr. smart yeah I miss Kirsten does was that the first Christmas you had missed no cuz I had been in the Job Corps but that was the first one in the service side of yeah all right yeah so where the day you send you four years training San Diego San Diego Marine Corps Base and how long were you do camp there I think we spent about three months and boot camp boot camp different ITR is different stages of it so you go through different stages of training but it was it lasted about three months off or did you know you're going to be going to Vietnam during training no we didn't know we just we just knew that when they say a Westpac we knew then we knew what that meant you know but before we know we didn't know where we were going so Westpac was effort mean Western Pacific that was yeah western Pacific that was so did you have any jumbled training there in San Diego yeah they gave us it was about two or three weeks of general training and survival stuff like that did were any of your buddies that you enlisted with were they with you in the Marines yes Robert Argyll Bruce Allen Johnson we were we were we were all together okay so you you listed together your training together at boot camp and then you do all of you get sent to Vietnam together yep but we were just separated after we got there and then we finally got back together but yeah we were all sent from here to welcome California to Vietnam so how did you get to Vietnam did you fly everybody by ship it was on a plane yeah did you have any stops if you stopped in Hawaii or Guam or anywhere well we stopped twice once I know why for about I just to refuel and then once and then we stopped in Guam which we stayed for about two weeks and then we received more training or more lectures on what to expect you know better so that was that was in December in January of 1967 and 68 67 so you're born in 48 so you're 19 right years old yep so from Guam where did you go they landed us in the name it was about 9:00 or 10:00 at night how are you flying we're flying in a commercial plane or a billet airplane it was a commercial plane to get to Vietnam but and then once they landed it was choppers from then on out all right when you landed you got off the plane what sensation did you have well first sensation is the heat it was felt like a hundred degrees at night I'm done like well it was something you you didn't expect you know okay yeah Hawaii was warm but Vietnam was hot it was all right yeah so when you got off the plane where did they take you did they take you they took us to a a Hut and set us up with and for the evening and and then I think about two days later they we all went to different areas to you know to to bring our support for each other for who we would be placing so we were you're placing guys and they six and ten guys here ten guys to this platoon or company rather you know so at that stage what is your rank our private your private and what were your duties when you know you're in the hut and then they're gonna send you out what were your duties follow orders all right that was a demand so you and I were talking before we got on camera about you being a machine gunner did they put you in the machine gun the group right off the bat I know my first two weeks I was my first I'm gonna save money it might have been two weeks it time went so fast and things happened so fast it I guess sort of I've said about two weeks and then I was just a mo humper you know bringing in a cherry damn old like everybody else you know and where did they send you out the first time the first time they sent us out was a Foxtrot Ridge it was an it was like my first week there so where we thought start foxtrot enriched in relations done in i had no idea i just knew that when we got on the chopper they told us you're going up to this deal it had a number for the net for they'il but we known that s foxtrot ridge and they just dropped us on the hill and we had to run for cover cuz it was it was a battle going on at the time so when we got there so you were dropped into this battle zone while the fights going on they called it a hot LZ so you get in you get to cover and then you size up what you need then do you know the sergeant to take over and tell you where to go and what to do well did the the helicopter actually touch the ground or did you jump out of the helicopter no they they landed about maybe five they hovered about five feet off the ground you jump out run alright if so did the chopper get out of there with taking any fire well it was incoming but he got out without what I didn't hear - nothing like that so but it was it was heroin going in and how I'm just thinking about it now it's this well how many fellows were on that chopper with you it was about maybe seven seven yeah and at that time are you carrying the ammunition or your humper no we'd be just we had backpacks and just the stuff that we came from California with it was nothing they just give you a pact with necessities food and ammo but not a lot just enough to get you there what firearm were you carrying at that time at the time I was carrying m16 how'd you like that it was nice and I thought it was until you got into a firefight or fell in the mud or something the dirt then it was just a stick because you know even though America makes good weapons that was one that it didn't hold up so you said if you got in a firefight you couldn't rely on it in a firefight no I wouldn't I wouldn't I traded mind for m14 which was a bigger gun a bigger rifle but you can drop it in the mud and pick it up and still use it but the 16 wasn't like that cuz once you slide that pulled the slide back if anything get caught in between it it's it's a stick wouldn't fire at all no you just be hoping you don't have to get up and act like you shoot how soon were you able to trade your m16 for the from the 14 the first time I went back to a real base I was I think it might have been a two or three weeks but when I went to a real base they had you know you can go to the armory and get pick up different weapons but get up did other fellows in the group in the platoon or squad to have the same problems with m16 they probably did but a lot of them didn't I didn't complain either I just knew that that wasn't the gun that I needed to be trying to live with because I'm running where they don't work well people that view this video may not have any military experience and they won't know what an LZ is what it was an LZ no Z's a landing zone of his like like the day if you go to a hospital on the top of the hospital they might have a cross up there which is the landing zone for them but so how long with how long were you in this firefight when when you landed there's there's firing activity going on how long were you there we was there for about three weeks about 30 weeks out three weeks so during that three weeks how much combat activity was going on quite a bit Rivera like I said if you move over there well about three weeks over it was quite a bit and then we had to still do patrols during the day to make sure that they wasn't moving closer upon us during the night you know so you go out on patrol around it around the mountain stay not not to the bottom but just the middle of the mountain just to see what was out there alright did you do that so oh yeah that's when I I learned about the six teens and what they do in the dirt you know so during did you have to go out scouting every day well it would be a different pattern every every just about everyday look but you yourself did you go out everyday lighting on every day I went out maybe the first time and then the second time did another platoon go out but if there's somebody out there every day when when you worked on the tune what did you do there at that would you call that a firebase yeah it was what it was it was a like a heel 8 181 or something like that but we just we tried to search and destroy the area you know you walk around and well you um patrol more that's after every day but when you weren't on patrol what did you do there at the firebase oh nothing we just dug in and made better for cover you know try to make it safer for us well what kind of sleeping accommodations did you did you have a bunker or where you're sleeping in the trench or what we've digging foxholes we've making them deeper so you can get down in it besides just Havana you know on flat ground so but it was mostly like making sure you got food and for you for your area and you didn't have to go running around but it was there's an alarming experience so tell me about the night time you and I had some conversation about nighttime what precautions did you learn you had to take at night to remain safe you had to learn to not walk across the you know during the sunlight or doing the like the moon like the moon's I'm nice for full moons you could you can see everything you know you can see yourself far if you walk across the top of a hill people could see you so we had to learn how to like smoke kidding smoke in the open you couldn't just go walking about my view it's just Nellie Wyllie you couldn't do that yeah we'll stay well what would be the danger if you smoked out in the open well you could that cigarette could get you killed not only you know by cancer but somebody could see that light and shoot that light and normally the light is up here when you draw on a cigarette but that light draws fire so we learnt that you learn how to conserve food conserve water so so were you a smoker did you start smoking yes I smoke you smoke down in your bunker and cover the cover the cigarette oh yeah you just smoke with your hand cupped over the cigarette like it's uh you know just it was hot but I mean as far as the weather was but you smoke covered up like that was a lot of VC and North Vietnamese activity at night yes that's one that's when they moved they moved at night America moved during the day so you can see them coming off a mountain over there with laterand you can see them then nobody walk around at night with lanterns but they knew the area anyway so we uh we learned a lot and like I said in that two-week period was if you didn't learn it you might be short time you might be a short time you know somebody who didn't make it past the first two weeks our tours are the first day you know some guys didn't make it past that so well did did you know anybody or here if anybody that was smoking out in the open and they got shot by one of the enemy soldiers I didn't hear about it well I heard about it through their sergeants okay they drilled that in your head like that cigarette now already could get you killed or you can be smoking but if they just went across the whole line then they could take two or three people just like that but just off a cigarette yeah now how about some of the officers did you have officers at your firebase yes we had lieutenants and captains or they offered they wear their bars or badges signifying that they were officers yeah they did but some of them have had changed where they changed they did it at first when a lot of sergeants party learned from that by having those sati emblems and so was that a danger to have those right on it on you right and that's why they started doing them in black 3 it instead of gold bars and stuff like that okay can you think of any other protection that you did during the day or night other than hiding your cigarette and and the fellows not having the bars all right what other protections you learned like the not to be just moving around too much you know you stayed close to your hole and how about talking yeah was there much talking that could go on no it was all that night hush-hush talking you would have to be in you're either in the bunker or in the foxhole just you talk there but you didn't want to be up on top talking what while you were on their first assignment at that landing zone did you take any mortar fire yeah that was when we first came in it was mortifying and small around a most you know but that was just the beginning and there was more to fire off and on you know you might like I said I was there for about three weeks and it was the same thing they try to catch you off-guard you try to catch them off-guard and it's something to think about if you've never done that you know it's like a young guy 16 12 20 years old you you ain't thinking like I gotta watch this you know I gotta watch what I do or but then you learn life or death it's like that so did you that first three weeks did you have any close calls herself with either mortar fire or small arms fire yes we had quite a bit how about you yourself well myself I got on I got hit but I guess it was a piece of shrapnel because I was going to the hole and it hit me on the boot hit me on the back of my boot and then I knew then that we you know you you must stay down you know you can't stand up and move about but you've learned everything in a short period of time so that was a tough lesson to learn that your foot almost got shot right and and that was a blessing I'd say I'd knock on wood to say thank you for that but because I've had friends that lost more than that yeah you know yeah well during that three weeks you that you were there were some of the men killed or seriously wounded oh yeah how did that get them out the same choppers that brought us in like when I got there Davis we had they came you know they would circle around and come back to get the body so they would you would you would have to have a team of maybe 12 guys go up and two guys to a body put it in the chopper and then you know and you might get well when when that happened that's the first time we put maybe ten people in the chopper and then the chapel would take off and take them back to whatever firebase would we had just come from so when the chopper would come in would you fellows on the ground take any particular cautions to protect that chopper to you oh yeah lay down fire form that was that that was the job of the troops that protected the choppers coming in and going out so everybody locked everything in a hurry it was a little when did you get to be associated with your machine gun during that first three-week or was that later in your tour of duty I was later like about maybe about two months later I was just an ammo hopper when I first came in but everything so after this first three weeks you get out by a chopper no we walked out they got us to walk we walked first we had to go around and survey when they had those bombing runs we had to go down and what we walked out so we can count the bodies that were at the bottom of the hill Vietnamese people so and napalm is something that people don't people see but they just don't understand it once it goes off it's it's over if you in the vicinity of it it's it's like hot glue on fire that hits you and then when you try to Pat it out then you got fire over here and fire here so so with that was our first patrol after we was going off the hill we had to count bodies and put them in a bomb crater that's that was scary and heroin because soon a promise but it's just like somebody lit some toy and stick it to your arm and and the people were they would they couldn't get away from you no matter how fast you can run you can't find out run that napalm well how often while you're up there on that three weeks how often did they bomb was napalm or did they just do that when you were going to get off the off the hill no that was that was up to the Air Force they you called in a strike they'll use bombs and napalm so but at that particular time we was trying we was coming off the hill so they dropped the napalm and on our way out we had to clean up you know make sure everybody was in a crater or so so one of your duties coming down was counting bodies yeah and when you counted them who did you report that to report it to a sergeant and then he reports to the lieutenant and he reports to the captain as you know as military goers I'm not going to ask you how many but where there are a lot of bodies when you were walking it up oh yeah it was like maybe thirty maybe more but you know if it just in the percentage that we were here it was I've never seen that in my life you know until I saw that there which was a person burnt to a crisp holding on to a branch like he was that was his last hope he can hold on to and like he would just been paralyzed - right burnt burnt to a crisp now those the fellows that were there were those mostly VC or were they North Vietnamese soldiers I would say I would say most of them were Vesey but because even the North Vietnamese soldier that they were in uniform but they would change up and just to hang out in the villages you know they had been well just like anyway you know you you know where you're from you know where you can go and get around but it was I think it was mostly VC all right so you get out you walk out of there and walk out where did you walk to we walked through a firebase I guess it was Camp Carroll or quench and wasn't Quentin to climb tree was not real but camp curl or dong-ha those were five bases you know ended up around the North I Corps all right what's the icord understand for it was the northern part of Vietnam they call that like [Music] Oh before we start talking a little CD will give Brian a chance to focus in on this I called hang on a minute these focus it now you you flew into Don Dane didn't I right all right and then where did you go we went no we must we were stationed mostly around the DMZ and this is aqua all right so then you went to you say if there was a firebase named Carol Camp Carl Camp Carroll yeah do you remember where that was in the area was in this area I and all of this is a koi all right so we may have went from this mountain to this mountain this healed that heal but we always stayed here in this here's Laos Laos here's south yet there's North Vietnam so will you it when you in Laos yes I was there one time all right I remember so just this part of the North South Vietnam as I ignored it yeah all this is awkward okay and did I cor extend up into North Vietnam right did you yourself get up into North Vietnam we crossed the DMZ yeah we went maybe not so far into and not like as far as going to Hanoi but we would we would crossed the DMZ but did you ever get up to them no we didn't ever get to all right that's yeah that was that was a lot further there wasn't that part of that right so you go to Camp Carroll and what do you do is from that point well be we went in we get to take showers and change clothes and get hot food and then when we and after you get rested up for a battle a week they put you on a chopper and then they take you back out and you land somewhere in this area again and then you just patrol you patrol the areas and and then you walk back to the next base camp so you said you were in Laos one time right was that a secret mission in Delilah's I'm assuming mingoes we will only told to go if we're going to Vietnam but I'm assuming that's what it was so what were your orders when you went to those as far as we knew we was going to see about some tanks so that was all the information we got we're going to check out some tanks that somebody has said they saw and Laos so how long were you over love I think rivers are about about three weeks because we lost quite a few guys at that time you know in this was I was like in 60 there's early 67 or I have been there about two or three months then yeah but that was about it was quite so you've seen you lost some guys did you usually lose those guys on patrol ambushes well yeah on ambushes patrols unless they attack wherever we were based that you know like we were sitting on a hill they can attack from anywhere but well when you were in Laos then how did you lose the guys with their own patrol or was that on a tablet Sona it wasn't attacks you know ambushes you know and plus being another area so we didn't know where we was evening home we're just doing what we were told you were totally unfamiliar with the area oh yeah yeah they'd said to told me but uh I just said follow orders and you sometimes you make it sometimes you didn't do you remember how many guys were with you when you went into vows I think of it was it a company it was I think of a book it was a more than one company but at I mean it was a battalion operation so it was like maybe I guess what whatever Marines have as a battalion which is probably three companies all right so that's like maybe a couple of hundred guys going in okay and you have were you able to bring all the all the guys out even the ones that were killed you were able to bring the the killed fellows out with you right they had support units which helicopters they they always followed you at the helicopter so you can they can bring in whatever you need in a mold water food you know you hear the philosophy and no man left behind is that what you guys did right that's what we're you we still but I mean we are really always believed in that and everybody lived and died by that so so we are will you're allows did you yourself have any close calls no I only made it well I made it partially through Laos and I was bitten by something like a I don't know if it was a rat or something but this happened in Laos and then they took me back to one of the five bases but a quench it might have been good Dong Ha something like that okay they took us back I was right there right it took me back there and there I was start receiving well put that animal bite I received an rabies shot okay and that lasted about three weeks so you were inactive then for three weeks right we were yin Dunning I mean all that three weeks right what were your duties then is there any other place on here that you want to show the viewers that you may have been when you left where did you fly from after Vietnam I flew out of Da Nang again we flew out of Danang okay did you have any did you have any conflicts between the Dong Ha and our name no we would we just well the name was so secured or they thought but they found out it went unsecure they just didn't attack it the way they wanted to but but it was secure when you got to Danang because it was more south okay that was Thank You Bryan all right we've got you back at Camp Carroll and is that where you had a chance to clean up and change uniform right so let me ask you this during those three weeks you were out there at that other camp did you have a chance during that three weeks to bathe or shower or do anything to clean up your back when you go into the rear you get a chance to take well they call them hot showers just you know 55-gallon drums full of water and just pull the cord and get wet and that's it you know it was that warm water and cold water just cold water but it was heated by the Sun so okay it was pretty it was pretty primitive but it was something that we had to do well I got experience with that on a fly-in fishing trip up in Canada it was we had a 55-gallon drum with a stick - that was cold that was great but Vietnam the weather is so hot that it would get too hot the water we did hot just from the Sun itself but it was it wasn't a learning experience and an experience that you don't forget so how did you feel when you finally got to take your shower and change clothes about human again for a minute and then you and then when they say you know everything is comfortable then you get to drink a beer because you're in the rear or in that rear you might you know you don't get to lakhs because the same thing goes smoking and all that stuff is so even though you're in a camp in the rear you're still in the hazards still aren't ya he's done all the time yeah that at night in any of the places that you win did you have any barbed wire or any any physical barriers to keep the Vietnamese from coming in all right we had they had Constantine and they had trip flares well but the Cobb landmines you know and all that in front of you but all right when you're in any of those camps did you experience the enemy coming into the concertina wire or the flares or the yeah you would experience like snipers or you would experience even animals like tigers snakes you there's different there's it was a whole big difference in that world because you wasn't just fighting one you wasn't fighting just the people you were fighting elements and the rain or the Sun or the like I said Tigers they had rock eggs they had snakes you know definitely it was different things that you you really had to learn it right when you were out on any patrols were you subjected to any ambushes yourself yeah we were we were caught in quite a few ambushes from my whole tour it was that was the tour you you set up ambushes you said if ambushes yourself well we set up ambushes mainly to catch them and then they set up ambushes mainly to catch and did you get experience any ambushes where they were trying to get you oh yes I experienced I can't say the number but i'ma just save my tour it was quite a few ambushes and quite a few people killed from those here how would they set up their ambushes were they're all the same or were they different and we're different sometimes you would you would catch a trick you would see a trail and then you might set up a hell shaving whereas everybody is on one side like this and then when the people come down through it then this is the ambush from here to here so and they they did the same thing to us so you wouldn't know it's nothing please said you just they just take you out set you down and you stay here for our two hours if you're on a night that patrol where you stay there all night unless something happened then you try to hurry up and get back to her come again how would you see at night if you're on night patrol how would you see you wouldn't you just you know you came from the north so you would even know like the way we came in with this way so the only way back is that way so but you will you know you're walking a lot of the man in front of you were you walking on trails or were you walking through jungle walking through jungle it was jammed or when well didn't didn't one tree but just like the other tree mmm one tree would look just like the saying another tree right alright so you wouldn't exactly like I said it was it was something you had to just well did did you experience any trip wires or any booby traps on any of your patrols right we experienced booby traps well you know they would dig a hole and put bungee steaks in them which were bamboo poles okay now the guys have-have fell into them and you just you're in there because it's just a hole with steak sticking up like this and when you fall did you fall in so you fall in flat so we would that killed kill the fellow oh yeah I'm going to kill you instantly I mean yes you are later in suffer for a while but it would kill you instantly because they know where to get you out and that somebody could get you off the steaks uh-huh you just did you experience that experience the ambushes which it gives you a heightened sense of awareness about things and people around you yeah how did they cover up these holes that have the bungees in them with bamboo bamboo like this they would crisscross it and then it'll brush over it and then if you ain't familiar with the area and you running trying to get away or trying to get to something you would run right into it and I mean I I've never experienced that kind of stuff until I went there but then after that that taught me that you just don't run everywhere you don't do everything do you think is right because well would they have those those holes with the bungee sticks just on trails or would they have them looking at me anywhere there could be anywhere like I can fit some trail here this is the trail and and then you try to run off the trail to run to the right or left you know there might be anywhere so you don't know and then ambush could be there too so it was just uh you learn and you live yeah you know some people didn't learn some people do you know so how long were you over there that were you there about 13 months yeah over there for 13 months and so during that 13 months I'm gonna assume that you were in a lot of firefights yeah I was in quite a few and I remember when I was seeing my attackin I could be called it or I can be somewhere and smell something and that word brings whatever that whatever happened at that time into mine but it was quite a few I was in quite a few operations but what kind of smells would you would bring these memories back gunpowder or you can smell gunpowder you know you smell death because people that died that didn't nobody find there's still bodies that their bodies are still decomposed you know you you got that smell yeah you got a were you there during any monsoons and you real bad dream right yeah my half my half my tool is doing the rainy season too because that was like it started raining saying April and it may not stop in Terra and September September summer day it might rain for three or four months I mean it rained constantly you seemed like and then the Sun would come out dried up in about a day or two and then it might start raining again for another week or two you know but it was constant so once the season started it was like winter you know so if you're in a rainy season you can't live in a foxhole can you did you have a bunker above ground no only if we went to our base camp it was a bunker but up on the mountains you just just sleep in the mud slept in the mud you eat in the mud you use the bathroom in the mud you do everything in the mud and he's and you like it or you may not be there so yeah you like it because you made it through the next day right that was the whole thing and that is I saying you know hey I've been blessed with the day so hope to see you tomorrow you know and yeah then you the guys that you have listed with did you see any of them fire over there in combat yes I myself and Robert Tuggle and Bruce Johnson we were we were there from the beginning to the end we we we came we left together and came home but were you in any combat with them oh yeah good so did they make it through without having any wounds well no Tuggle was wound at once and Bruce I don't know I don't know if he was he wasn't Munda but he he was uh he was a medevac for malaria one time and that was but most of our tool was done in the bush all right we you and I had talked briefly about machine gun crew it was had a three-man crew I thought well it's about four loko been crew tell tell us about what each person in that crew did I started with the ammo humpers we you were it was two guys to actually protect the machine gunner but you still carried ammo there was a a gunner which spotted for the machine gunner and then there was a machine gunner which he's the one that operates the machine he operates there the machine which we called it a machine which it was so this is what caliber was a machine gun that 60 60 Cal 60 calendar yeah do you know how many bullets it would shoot a minute or a second you could shoot or you could shoot I'd say 200 rounds a minute because another time you have to do anything you change the barrel I mean you change the barrel when it gets hot but it would put out 200 rounds minute or better because it's a killing machine that's why people here in the United States they don't know well they understand what these guns are do but it's a killing machine so is this a portable machine gun that you could that you carried the times from the state from base to base yep that's a 60 caliber let me shoot away the weight about 46 pounds or something like that right did was it on a tripod yes did you have to carry the tripod to where the tripod is it's on the barrel and kicked out the tripod like that camera stand and and you just stand behind it and hold it on because it was it was howling so where you were a humper then did you get to be an egg gunner on the machine gun yes and then how did you become a gunner on the machine gun well because the gunner was killed and then next person will live up to the to the machine gun and and that's how are you I'd all said great getting great upgraded yeah but you get upgraded like that and you didn't ever want to get upgraded because it was always definite all right you didn't want to see somebody else get killed oh no no no so the fella that you replaced as the gunner had he'd been a friend of yours or did you know him very well and we that was one thing we tried to friend everybody but you didn't want to get to front because you didn't know when they were right you'd be talking to him today and then you'll be putting them on the chopper tomorrow and but you still stayed social and competent and you help one another more of us all right you be an african-american how the white soldiers treat you well in the bush it was everybody's the same color everybody on the side but when they get to the rear then some of the guys forget and they go back to the old I don't like you for that reason or this reason but then in the bush they knew I could die you can die so they didn't but most of the time when that happened when mistreatment and people didn't care for you listen when you're in the rear okay and that was me because people in the rear had that status West we're still in control you know you know so I mean I didn't care who was in control just long as there wasn't putting everybody's life on the line so but it was a hell in expense and lose your company commander the company commander we had two or three of them but I couldn't I showed you my papers of all it was my lieutenant his name was hug it hug it h1 he GE TT right so we reported to him and and he reports to anybody else's so was he with you all the time you were over there yes and he made it through he made it through he got he got back home he became a lawyer and he wrote a book called a body count body count he worked his book out I didn't see it until 2000 17 that's when I saw the book but I I knew his name and I knew you know that he was in Florida so we'd see the white fella yes how do you treat you oh he treated us his last day in the bush he came to our camp and came to our foxhole and drunk a beer with us ever the first time he had ever we had ever did that but we were in a base camp so you know in this cold case but he was fair and he was he was led a gung-ho age but but he was there you know well give me an example of a gung-ho situation okay China or if you take a heel like we took a heel one day and instead of you know normally I mean I'm hate to say it but this was one of those John Wayne actions he he said everybody get on line and crossed the heel I mean and then and they're still enemy on the heel so as we go on they pop up you know out of foxholes you either kill them then or they to jump up and run but most times they would either fight you know they were those are North Vietnamese soldiers they were staying fighting so but he was he was a good lieutenant but he had a gung-ho about him you know but you heard you fellow just walking across the hill right in a straight line on line and we did that once well did enemy pop up on you from foxhole right we did did you lose guys because he had you in a straight line no we didn't my effect on top of that here that day we just we were I just read it a lot because it was so much smoke and other stuff going on and me bombs are going off and and we were just we were moving fast cuz it was daylight so we didn't want to get caught up there just just walking across the top of that hill so we walked across it we got to the other side and you could see them running down the hill or something that North Vietnamese soldiers running and you just shoot them then or you kept them or they'll get you later so did you pursue them when you saw him running down the hill or did they get into the jungle and well we didn't pursue him I've come family opportunity too soon we just stopped at the top of the hill on the other side and we shot at them but not you know not to chase him down to catch him but what would anybody ever come along and try to count those bodies oh yeah they do that all the time not just for America's before you know even American soldiers have to count Vietnamese people that they've caught her captured or killed or yeah yeah just to have her going town you kind of hear that sometimes the body count wasn't accurate that they were trying to show that there was more enemy killed than really were killed right unless Americans killed and really were killed right did you experience any of that yes we experienced it but but nothing we can say or do yeah I could say you follow orders and did you ever have any orders about not counting in certain areas no I didn't myself personally no okay but I don't know what the lieutenant's did you know other captains did too once they got the numbers you don't know what very important they can add to it or take from it but if we lost a lot of troops you know - and what what was the longest period of time that you spent out in the bush without changing uniforms and having a chance to bathe I think of this I'm gonna say about a month maybe three weeks might be out for three weeks or a month and then unless you cross the river or something then you would get chance to bathe them but other than that you just have to wait until you get to a real area where you can be comfortable or get relaxed to do it well if you're out on a on a station for three or four weeks how did you get resupplied with food and in the nation of water well they would where they would come in with a chopper they would call in and it would fly overhead and they would drop it in these big bags and you dropped food they would have water buffalos they would bring them out on choppers you deflower me they fly over and drop it someplace and didn't you start filling your canteens from there now what's the water buffalo I'm thinking there's a real Buffalo animal it would it would look like a buffer I mean it's a tank but we go to the Buffalo cus all right it was big enough to hold plenty of waters like maybe 100 gallons 200 gallons of water or something like that okay and how would they drop that are they good well they have it in this net and then they would drop it and it had spit it out of speakers on it you know okay and just fill up the canteen from there if the enemy tried to shoot up your water supply where are they shoot anything that's flying moving that that they could get a bead on and once it got on the ground did they try to shoot your water supply oh yeah they tried to get it India but if they couldn't then they would know that everybody's gonna crowd around that so they would target that you know target that Buffalo they say well we know they're gonna be sitting around it or going to get that water so food we mail all that stuff would they ever target when the helicopter came in to drop the the water buffalo and food or ammunition did the enemy ever start rocket fire on you yeah that's when that happened wouldn't like I said when choppers come in then they they know you're in a certain area you can't move so they can target that he'll target certain sections of it so it just wasn't just one small arms fire they had our borders and rockets rockets and whatever they can use I never like I said I never saw a tank until that he was talking about tanks and Laos and you know we didn't see tanks too much but we knew that atom somewhere do you ever have a situation where you ran out of water and you tried to drink from the stream the river yeah yeah there's quite a few where we might have fact it was one time we was going up up a stream and was drinking out the stream and you know not thinking about nothing just watching what was going on around us but we drink out to the stream go up about I'd say 50 yards something like that and and then you would see there might be dead animals in the water there might be dead people in the water and after wild maggots and all of that but did you think about that after you didn't drunk the water you'd have filled up the canteen then you want to pour that out and get fresh water so did you pour it out oh yeah I did that so he's that happened to you where we were drinking out of this water and then we go up a little bit further and hit these people landing in the stream they were I must say it maggot-infested and it was decomposed and so no what were those bodies enemy soldiers or sometimes with any citizens these were mustered a these were enemy sergeant these were like mostly North Vietnamese soldiers because they had their uniforms yeah so when you did that when you saw that you dumped your canteen oh yeah this even if even if you thought you did you saw it so you knew you had to you felt that belong so you have to give that water out and put fresh water yeah and then they'd know telling you could have went because it got fresh water and it could have been the same thing up to little further yeah but you know we we worked with it what we had that mr. maritime because because of the heat and humidity was water more important to you than food yeah cuz yeah you can I thought you can go some without food but that water you gotta have we had to have that how did you do weight wise did you weigh the same when you've got out that's when you went in I was but I was less I didn't weigh only weight about 148 at the time 1:47 I think I was 130 something when I got out okay but uh I mean the fool wasn't fat and you know it's just C rations and on any of your patrols did did you lose any men to capture did the enemy capture any of your fellows no we had we had a couple of guys again I don't know if they were captured or they were I would say they were just missing in action that's what I would say they were but you know we didn't we didn't hear about him getting captured or not really that but there were guys with a lot of jobs missing like you know either they anything I don't know whether but you recover they may just disappear not to say disappeared night like you we don't know where they act but things would happen that night you didn't even I wouldn't even believe sometimes but but we loved us and and we'd still think about them because even though we didn't know what happened we just we knew we lost them they weren't there they were there at one time and they weren't there I didn't know yeah and they don't ask a lot of questions because you're so busy moving you know you're moving so much but they do look for people you know expecting when you come up missing my back had a question and just popped out of my head did you have did you have any are in our periods while you were over there that 13 months oh yes I have one one week of R&R I went to I went to Malaysia and how was that it was peaceful it was relaxing it was quiet but no you know what no gunfire all the time but no gun fires father you know I knew but but what did you do while you were there just I was a Malaysian that was visited their country and then I was I met quite a few people there do know Malaysian people and Chinese people and was there a military base there that she went to no I didn't know I didn't know where did just where did you stay I was at a hotel and and we just visited bars and clubs and different things like you know like our soldier we did on our and also even in the state you were going off or not a and all but uh he caught a break as I'm the collagen but I just did it you know so MIT mentally did that that week off help you mentally that that helped me to cover so it gave me a chance to really breathe and think about where I was at and what I was doing but I'm you know it was it made you think of life I fire it could be peace right you know it don't have to be always war but that's so then how did you get to Malaysia and it had you to get back to ok Malaysia they they flew us out on a floors out on a plane which was I guess it was a civilian plane oh ok regular plane so we went to Malaysian and then you go back to Vietnam and then you go back to your company well how did you how did you get from Malaysia effective it by commercial commercial plan did you go back to guniang again go back to deny and you go catch up there from there you catch a helicopter going to wherever you're really wherever your real area was and then you go back to your base I mean your back to your platoon or company so when you're out there in the bush out there in the jungle is there a period of time when it's quiet or is there gunfire and mortar fire rocket fire all night long oh there was times when it was quiet and and it was time when you could see the stars there was a time when you could you know really you could think like this is a beautiful country if you're wasn't in this turmoil and did you get times like that yeah did you get into any villages yeah that it took quite a few villages and what did quiet what did you do in the villages did you have to take any extra care when you go into the villages that there might be booby traps or or some of the people who look like so these would be VC right we're going to we went to the those villages and we would try to befriend the people to find out if their VC had been there they're helping them know you know and then I was good people you know I'm assuming I couldn't speak the language but that would get people but then there were booby traps and stuff that you had to look out for because it wasn't it wasn't like being in the rear or somewhere I don't know did you personally experience anybody in your platoon setting off a booby trap now revista when something like that happened at the booby trap is found in a village normally we would just like gather about it up and either burn the village or either they would take the people back to one of those like when the ovens arvin soldiers were there they would question to people first and if they thought that it was the VC stronghold they would burn the village take the people back to her or some camp where they could put them in concentration or something like that uh-huh and question him whatever they gonna do but it was it was an experience that did you serve with any South Vietnamese soldiers in the platoon of the company right those were the Arvin's which work out you know they were South South Vietnamese soldiers but but they were in your room they was in our group as interpreters or as guides you know and then you had to learn to trust them or you had to learn to be ready to kill them because you know they will they they did turn on a lot of people with today which that still happens like in Afghanistan and Iraq that still happens but but that did sometimes that you would have at Arvin that was your leader and interpreter right and he's your friend today and tomorrow he switched sides they kid yeah some of them did and some you know some were dedicated to America which you know it is more it's harder did you were you ever in a situation where you had one of those fellows turn on you not in that not in as a not as an attack but but you knew that that could happen could help until you knew it could happen even if they befriended you and you know they told you about that kids if they could speak in English but you still have you still had to be on alert all the time so and 13 months I thought was a long time to be on alert but and then I found out that that ain't nothing because I've been on alert since Vietnam so I don't know if it's just because I went through that off because that's the way it is all right let's you let's take you out of Vietnam you got out of there successfully and you're in Danang when you how did you fly a fly home commercial our commercial for and where did you go did you go to Guam first we went to Guam hello were you in Guam stayed there for about two weeks what'd you do there turned in our weapons or returned in our weapons at Vietnam but when we got to Guam they made sure you didn't have any small I need the other one souvenirs of an airway there's nothing like that and they they I guess they kept us there for the two weeks to calm us down or whatever I mean you're on high alert all the time so it's kind of hard to just turn that off even with no weapons he's still thinking like that so well let me let me go back to Vietnam a minute did we did you ever experience Agent Orange yeah people where I have a map where that shows where they spray the agent aren't it and were you ever in the area where the spring happened it was everywhere they sprayed from south to north I don't know but oh no it's in that book did did and did you have any of it sprayed on you I slept in it slept in it I drank it I used to bathroom in it every time is it was everywhere thank you okay let him get back to her okay I'll let him get back to that if you read I play away okay all right he's ready okay now we got this upside down or something down okay now if you look at the black the black specs of this air yeah it's all through here they don't specify but all those little digits is where they sprayed Agent Orange from one end to the other it supposed to kill the foliage and you know the jungle stuff I had this because uh I wanted to see what it's pretty that and then I learned about Agent Orange after I've got I've seen it there but I learnt about it more after I got home it's uh so you saw the effects of it they would spray it and then how long did it take for the foliage to die after the spring it might make my dog even if they sprayed it if it was I mean this the area was so strong that uh if it's still green they're still but in some areas it died quick but uh it sprayed it everywhere and I just found out that those showers that we might have been taken in Vietnam they might have been wanted of some of those 55-gallon drums that they had the Agent Orange in so when they took it out they washed them out and then they they use them in the rear for showers or for you know cans where you can where you use the restroom they would have them like under the but I never knew it was that kind of defoliant but I'm finding out now that you know I've have I have breakouts and itches that I don't even understand why but they said ain't Agent Orange but I I don't know I'm just a sword to China yeah it's time to do what but but but I'm told and could be a little politics in that huh I would say I or going to politics it might get crazy okay so you're in Guam for a couple of weeks and then where do you go then we get to California we study therefore we stayed there for about oh sorry about that as I am sorry I thought I did turn it off so we're in California did you go what camp I went back through our San Diego okay and I want to be there was there about maybe about two weeks more and then I was discharged from there okay when you lent when you landed there did you landed at the at the base or did you land at a commercial airport and then the commercial have had for it and then they did you have the uniform on yes and then they bust us to the base camp I'm into the camp did you have any bad experience at the airport from any of the citizenry with your uniform on did they yeah we had they had experiences in California because it was all over new baby-killer discussing that but and then I really experienced that after after California well where did you experience after California all right right here in Cincinnati did you have the uniform on still well I didn't have my uniform I had on a field jacket and my point of my on my video hats like fatigue so what what did that happened in Cincinnati Airport oh yeah no that happened here I was at a restaurant and and this guy start talking stuff and he said he looked at my jacket and and I had he said he said you've been in the service and then he started talking about baby-killer this and that but what did you ever try day I was trying it and well I was trying to reason with him right look I think what you think it is but I wanted to hurt him but it didn't make you know I'm like trying to stay away from that factor but it was just that he was just belittling the government and what I did or what anybody did I went there so she went to pop in one but you had the willeth although there's this that yeah well my girlfriend was with me at the time and she pulled me out of the restaurant and we went on down the road but I've experienced and not just with him but you know people who have different views on life and what said being shouldn't be but I just I've just dealt with good good so you came back home from Cincinnati California and you discharged at that time what did you do did you get a job no it took a it took us a while to get it took me a while to get a job but uh plus I wasn't in the frame of mind of just going to work I was trying to think about what my life now I said well maybe I should go to school for something so I've tried that with the upward Upward Bound program yeah that lasted about three weeks three say six weeks and I couldn't concentrate because I wasn't thinking about books I was thinking about what I was what I had done yeah I'm still I'm still shocked because of that but I couldn't concentrate or the screw didn't work out yes did you have trouble sleeping I still have problems sleeping but I still have problems of being in crowded places I still have problems with you know in some place and don't know who's behind me or who on the side of me these are parts of that Vietnam that I just happened shook I'm gonna take it so I live with it and you try to go on so you try this Upward Bound through about three weeks and then where are we going and then I start taking little jobs you know like a take a job and uh well I took a job at this auto body shop because I knew I had that training so they told me I could do cleanup and I said no what I want to do I'm going to do cleanup I want to do auto body work I got some skills at him but I never did your chance to use it so but after that I've just went from this job to that job and then when I get a job I didn't cared like that you know like not like I need this and you know I just I just took a job just to have something to do and then I couldn't do it the way I probably wanted to because I was only nine times out of ten I was I was easy to leave because I wasn't set in my mind about being dedicated no more you know so did you ever come down with a steady job no not really I just kept jumping from one job to the next I get fired I quit I wasn't you know I wasn't I didn't care about you know how long I was there I just worked and then the only job I worked with was driving trucks and that was I was that ended up being my livelihood there's what what kind of truck CD drive tractor trailer similar track semi tractor-trailers who for our this company vessel the ESL and what kind of product did you haul there we all steel machine parts did you fall over you drive the flatbed then I mean you're hauling a flatbed trailer no when did you start that job I was hobby back in 2000 not in the 70s or 80s that was I was just I was started that job back then I've been I was on that job for about maybe 14 years and I drove for this company I drove for other companies but it was just I would quit I wouldn't okay when they're dedicated but but when I drove for this company I stayed because they treated you like family or like you know part of the company you know they did just treat you like these here with you know they didn't just use you up and throw you away they it helped you to get started helps you to stay in business you know so was that interstate or just intrastate our interstate admin I went all over for a while and then I just got to stay in state Ohio and the Kentucky Indiana so like that when you did long hauls would you get as far as California or Washington or up and doing I went to Florida I was on the southern part Florida Atlanta or something like that you know we I didn't go from here to California and Everest did you drive singly or did you have a partner drive a double arrow single did you have a sleeper yeah most trucks and when you did long hauls did you sleep in the truck you slept in the truck and then if you needed a hotel you can get a hotel for you know for showers and whatever she needs it to do okay other than that it was it was lonely out there because you have to buy yourself but you don't have that constant thought of somebody sparkling at you all the time and telling you this and that and when you win your garden for vessel did you drive anything other than the flatbed no right there and you have any close calls as a driver any near misses any jackknife sir anymore yeah well haven't had one jackknife where well a truck jackknifed it was a tanker truck I was down in Kentucky and the tanker was coming up behind me and I guess I was going too slow for him going up the hill so when he spent out to go past me the back of his trailer caught the back of my trailer and then he flipped over and he he was sliding down the highway as I'm coming as I'm looking at him like this he's sliding in front of me and then when I stopped I was like maybe I'm gonna say two feet I would about that close to him when I stopped it and then I had to sit there for a minute for a second I guess caught my breath and I looked out and the tractor was over upside that were sitting on his side side and the tanker was slapped slid I always crossed the highway so the whole highway is sit down and so I get out and I climb up in there open the door and these two guys was in there they was all over a bunch of stuff that was laying in the floor and then just on the windows and stuff but I have pulled in my powder and then we went and sat on the side of the road waiting for the police to come were they okay yeah they were okay they was going back into I don't know what happened to them what made them come around me but they just did and you know if their tanker was full or empty I think it was empty because uh it was you know wasn't no fire and not my dad what kind of it was a fuel tanker it was I don't know if it was fuel I think it might have been some kind of chemicals or something some kind of but it was a it was a tanker uh-huh but it didn't burst into flames so that's how I've taught us the reason I crawled in there to get to open the door for the guys but just in case it didn't catch fire here because that's where you don't have to us the room of course the engine could have caught fire too couldn't you know compartment yeah anything could her but I was glad that it didn't what if it was empty I was glad of that but it was scary yeah did anybody recognize your efforts at saving them no I didn't think of her saving I just I just helped him out and we just sat on the side and it was like I was just trying to find out from them what happened why did they come I knew they came around me but I don't see how the tanker got caught on the skids I had some skids on the trailer mm-hmm it caught it and I don't know why maybe he turned he corrected it too hard but he he went over and once the tanker goes over there was the tractors try to follow it or you know the tanker went over and then the tractor was still sitting up but then it laid down okay because of the hoses that behold it is yeah it's the fifth wheel was still connected we'll still connected so they were I mean they were okay but it was a mess for about eight hours so did you retire from vessel yes and when was that what year do - 2016 2016 and you driven for them for what 14 years yeah I'm thinking it was 13 well 14 15 years old I knew I had some time then that was there that was the only job I had ever stayed on in that little time because I wasn't based with you know about other people and you're what 71 now I'm 70 I'll be seventeen one happy 71 lives November day yeah so you started with him when you were about 55 or 56 years old yeah that's one of the problems of life there so you were happy to get you were happy to get a permanent job and stay right where I'm something that I could do and not after and not think about it like well you know because I've been on a lot of jobs and I've been fired for a lot of different reasons for hay but now that they like you you like them you stay there that's where well let me let me get back let me get back to your family situation there ever been married yes what was your what was your wife's name alright be by and what was her last name her maiden name was Barbara right her married name was Shannon alright and you have brothers and sisters yes and you have two brothers what yeah I have the family consisted of three boys and six girls right and of the three boys how many are still living - all right what what are their names Michael Michael Shannon is my brother and myself is Alan okay my older brother Sherman he passed away about maybe seven six seventy years ago was he in the military yes he was in the Navy it was in the Navy during the Vietnam War oh yes and he passed away from pancreatic cancer so he was on a he was under Enterprise carrier aircraft and I don't know if they hauled you know that Agent Orange over there there's a lot of ships brought it a lot of airplanes product but mostly the ships well how close to shore did the enterprise good I don't know I don't know wait I don't know where they were stationed that but I know they were in Southeast Asia so well there's an area they called the blue water zone that if the sailors been in this certain blue water zone of so many miles from the base I've heard of that there may be eligible I've heard of that but but he he's been gone for a while so that's that's fairly recent and yeah okay how about your sisters I have six sisters I have two that's Betty and I'm reading my needed and Jean my Nita is one of my sisters and Jean is another one they passed away since then but every breeze she's still living it no I have six or I had eight six sisters but I think two of them them past us all right maurizio youngest bunch it Rose matters to young this Marie Betty then it was team and then Juanita so I'm guessing two sisters out of that out of a group so missing two sisters and a brother you you still didn't Cincinnati yes lifelong resident here except for the military right how about children do you have any children I have I had three kids one is passed away it was that a boy that was a boy he was he was either 28 when he passed away and what was his name his name was Alan Morris Shannon how long to reach him and he died at age 28 and I understand from talking to you earlier he he happened to be the random victim of a gunshot right and you got two girls I have I have a daughter and a son okay and boy those are them my other two kids they would buy another mother but but those two uh still present and we're still working hard to be better what's your daughter's name our name is Alison and what's her last name Shannon Alison Shannon now she married but just used to Shannon yeah no she's not married she's she's single but uh and I have a son his name is Sherman Sherman Shannon and how old Sherman he's 32 she have children he got yeah I see you have one daughter right now so is that your only grandchild yeah that's my only grandchild now I got a great grandson by Alan's first child okay so and my granddaughter is but her name is Malaysia because that's where I went so I don't know if we just bake like that or we just live in life and taking it as a count you know so what are you doing in retirement you got your hobbies stay healthy and do the right thing where do you live now I live on Vine Street and Cincinnati mighty fact right up the street from here you live in a house from the partner house you have a yard yeah take care of the yard I do that yeah I do artwork and I do trying to do some some nonprofit work like trying to enlighten younger people about life itself you know how do you do that well I got a little store and I put up the signs a little note that tell them you think about life or you know invest in you or you got a little store it's a little plumbing Jeff what do you do at the store well sell cigarettes pop chips and okay and food items you know and not know nothing cooked just arms you know snacks well I thought you weren't doing anything you're an entrepreneur yeah I work well for my I work well with myself okay sometimes I don't do get with other people because they they have everybody got them you know they see problems and everybody so I just I try to just do what I can do and keep moving no where's your store is it on Vine Street yeah it's on vine whatever neighborhood sit in have you ever had any problems with theft or robberies no I haven't had problems with that and all because I I put the product inside and the people on the outside so they had a reason Steve okay but you know but it's a it's like a little mom-and-pop place and it helps me to stay grounded and and I could talk to some of the kids you know maybe I can stir them into like eight stay in school or do this or that right every gun in a good gun because I've seen it even though I'm living in the city I've seen a lot of killings right in that vicinity because people don't I guess they don't see the light about the gun it's it's crazy yeah well I'm gonna let Brian have a few shots at you okay well let's take a break for Manny and then I okay we're going to let Brian ask you some questions I've been here most of the time all the time and we'll get him some shots at you okay oh yeah yes we I mean looking when I was at school yeah we were feeling about the war itself what we were seeing the war on TV more less but yeah we knew things were going on but I knew that I was at that age 18 so and they were talking drafting but I was aware of the war itself yeah yeah because yeah I had I had a chance I mean I knew I had a chance of going but you know I just didn't know how they did it or but after I seen it I know that they needed people so it wasn't just about but I think after then after boot camp we found out like they said Westpac or easy going to some trade school or some school for this or that but yeah it was a it was quite a few african-americans and Marines it was Mexican Hispanic Americans and then there were Asians and and it were white people it was a bunch of it was a lot of people but it was a lot of african-americans during the 68 67 68 period a lot of because they were cleaning out jails at that time you know you want to get out of here go over there and sum up did some of them made it back some of them didn't but it was a choice that you had that you got to make at least at that time but I mean they was drafting at the time too so now and you think you say well you know they take you to a place and it's woody and there's some creeks here in there there's rocks do you think like well maybe this might not be exactly what it's like a pretend place but then you know you don't know how bad it is until you get there then you find out it ain't just a setup like what you know there's a creek and you can just cross the creek but then you can cross the creek and die or but then you find out that everywhere is it's dangerous you know so then you learn a lot more then like I'm selling them coming back there you can you learn a lot quick when you find out that your life is on the line so when you first get there you really only talking to the guys who you were in Pitou with or your sergeant and they give you the lowdown on everything about first day in country that like I said just smoking all that they they telling you these things so you don't get them killed and that was that was a big learning experience which well a lot of us learnt the right way a lot of us didn't but yeah you learned a lot but just to offer other people telling you before you even even the combat actions you know they tell you like don't try to move when you don't need to move or move when you need to move they give you those instructions so you learn to listen so you learn to work accordingly you know No all our housekeeping was wood we didn't nobody there was no nobody doing cleanup or pick up the cigarette butts none today I'm not right and it was and and like I said you know befriending people you you only befriend them because you need to know but you get too close and something happened to them then you might react in a different way like if they got shot and you just trying to get to them because you care anymore then you you could end up being the same position so but I learnt you know you learn a lot just from them boy ain't just war it's a it's an education too but you know maybe the country needs to learn that you know right and stateside they show you you know they tell you like you know be aware of this and that these things could happen you pick up something just like today you can pick up a bag and get a blow up but there they said just walking off the trail or walking away from the troops could get your heard cuz you step into a hole or you fall into a you know bomb crater they can it's a lot of things that could hurt you that you don't realize and tell you faced with that situation there okay it was like it was hilly it was jungle ish I mean you got bamboo you know the grass were was seven feet tall so and you might be walking through this grass elephant grass that called it but you wouldn't know where you were going cuz you you just well are you really following a map so are you saying they say go south you go south through this jungle where these bonds or elephant grass or bamboo it was it was hard traveling you know it's hard traveling okay then you would carry you you carry a mole and you wouldn't carry of your pack because you work you on patrol you don't need it you just need you know some food in your pockets or something like that but other than that it was it was mostly carry and equipment that you needed for patrol some all of us you know compasses and just about that but other than that it was mainly sticking to whatever your command to tell you or whatever they tell you you need it for that time you go ahead and take that no we taken we have or at the five base we slept in yeah tents or whatever they call it but then the in the bush we just slept in our like we have a poncho and we just make a a shelter half you know you put that up just to keep the Sun and the rain off of me other than that you slept in the dirt or like that picture stuff under just up on the ground that's it yeah that was the main problem with mosquitoes and ants and spiders that you never even seen but they were there and then you had snakes and like I said tigers and rock tapes you know I remember a time we was on an ambush one night and the rock Apes start throwing these rocks or we we thought it was the enemy so we not throwing the rocks but we knew that something was going on but we shot him up and then we headed back toward the base coming towards the camp but it was anything out there you never know I mean I never I never realized it was someone like the Tigers I never knew I didn't know they were there but I knew they were there but we didn't see him yeah we was at a we was going like I said toward Laos and we were we stopped at this it used to be an old camp our guest had you know they had food and where they taught him those the c-ration cans but I've been open but food was still in them and well then the roads where the roads go where the food is that so they we've been sleeping my night as we was on our way and we stopped slept that that evening and during the night I was bidding I thought we tried to catch it but I didn't know what it was whether it was a rat or whether it was some other kind of animal but I was bleeding and they they told me said well you got to go back because of that so I'm like I mean it didn't hurt my feelings because I didn't where we were going guys lost a lot of we lost - at that on that trip so quite a few guys so uh yeah the awards is hell and Leslie when I just said you don't know what's out there beside yourself the hollow zone I still remember the name of it tastes like hollow zone like I put that in the water as opposed to kill the germs and bacteria but it tastes like you drinking medicine water you know water with some Tanner you know it's got the chemical in it cuz you put it in there but I don't know but that was the only thing that probably kept kept a lot of us out of you know like I said drinking out of them filthy creeks and filthy rivers that I'm gonna say filthy I'm going to say David he didn't know well Piceno leak is and all that but but the haleh's on was supposed to kill the bacteria in the germs all right first front they had well that's there's little steep fools they had these love things that they were via I guess they were Vietnamese tight but it it was had that I guess the French must have taught them because they they were speaking some people could speak French and yet they have different little thing but even the French lost in Vietnam so you know they went there and got beat up that's when America went over there got well we did we didn't get beat up but we got beat up I'm just you know I I laugh now because I feel comfortable about what I did and you know I'm not not ashamed of it I'm just right now I'm still suffering from it because I can't just drop it you know for some reason I can't drop it but I'm still working with it though yeah they did but we I think we only we only seen one I think it was one show that we seen it but wasn't a Bob Hope show it was something like that some some ladies from us I mean the USO they had came in every singing and dancing and it was maybe a country-western star was there one time and you know we just enjoyed the camaraderie and the peacefulness of it but then you but you were sitting there with your rifle so it it was fun but it was dangerous so because you got a crowd of people around your store anything can happen you know [Music] yeah we got you would write when you could and you know as long as the paper was dry and you know but uh I got pretty much mail from my family your sisters and brothers but girlfriends stuff like that but yeah it just it was a good time to get me oh yeah it was a gift thing cuz some people didn't get bail some people who did get it wish they had to got it killed it was a lot of things going on back then I'm assuming you know yeah I was then 68 well I got there in 67 68 was the tour and then I left there in 69 I was in Khe Sanh at the same time that that was going on Khe Sanh got hit with a mortar round or some kind of rocked it and it blew up for about a month that place was it was on fire for a month so because they couldn't put it out I mean it wasn't a fire it was just explosions you know they they hit an ammo dump and it kept going it kept going I mean they they would stop flights from coming in and out because a caisson they had up they had their own helipad and everything everything was shipped out of there so it it was it was a month or more while that thing blew up but every place else in the country there was you know a lot of activity because of because of the Tet Offensive yeah and we faced a lot of troops been at at that time different areas but stay still in the iCore weeds up on the northern right and I was and and I commented on that here recently I broke when I got them when I got back I wrote my congressmen or senators or whoever they are which I have never done so I was writing to them about you know the adverse treatment that we were getting when we came back home so I never did mail the letter because of the reason that I know we got a First Amendment right to speak our minds but you know it just like I wanted to tell the world that you know war and what it is and you know we shouldn't discriminate against anybody because this is a country of a lot of different people so and you know you're trying to I'm fighting for these I'm over the in Vietnam I'm fighting for their democratic rights and you know liberties and and then I'm looking at the same thought that hey wait a minute I don't get the same when I I can't go to this restaurant when I did home that that setting you know which I still think about it today but I brought these well I don't have them I got them but I don't have I can't show them to you now but I was just trying to straighten myself out like we need to just take it it take life as it comes you know and realize we all are human and ain't nobody going nowhere this was only one planet so some of these people learned that we got to learn to live together it's probably gonna be a better planet but that was just my enrich my rendition of that you know but yeah a lot of things was going on back here that didn't sit well with me or a lot of other people over there you know but you want to make it right like I said I went to Vietnam to make it right for those for them Peru and then I'm faced with the same problem so you know I'm not mad at anybody about it but I'm just I just want people to know that we can't just keep going on in just one way fashion this clatter we all have to learn to live with each other because anybody can jump off the planet and that's the whole story you can't leave here so like they said let's learn to live and get along and in help one another like we helped other countries we should help each other cuz we got a lot of stuff going on right now that's really it don't make sense but it do make sense to some people who who wants at all you can't have it or you can already just I'm not a speechwriter I'm just telling you like out there we all need to just settle down and just take life as it comes because this it's rough enough by itself you know just living my to you I listed for two years but and that was strange I didn't know how even that enlisted for two and everybody was getting four and but no I had thought about it I said when I went into service I was trying to serve my country and show the people that you know I'm worthy of just like anybody else I'm worthy of speaking my mind and doing the right thing and but then I'm just dumbfounded right right I've been involved with the veteran groups for since 86 I've been going to vet groups for 886 and since of them I still go to veterans group might affect I'd be at one tomorrow but uh yeah I thought about all those things and I've seen what was going on but I was just wishing for it better for for the country I mean that was it my you know I didn't want no special treatment just like I didn't complain about the war when I was there but I just did what I had to do well I went to the VA and tried to and was and I was telling them that was something wrong with me and I wasn't thinking right I'm their wedding well I was thinking not irrational but just you know I knew something was wrong because I was getting angry for no reason and I would argue with my family for no reason I would shut myself in for no well I thought it was no reason but come to find out it was PTSD but uh and I've learned to I never talked about it up until like I said last last two years and and I've been home since for 60 57 years now and I couldn't speak about it until I finally broke down to a or be a little doctor and and I was able to explain it explain myself shed some tears and and I voiced my opinion about it you know and I mean I know there's a lot of time after Vietnam but if the still bugging me just like today it still bugs me but we you know we just need to it's too much trouble in the world for us for me to just hold on to trying to get away from the bad thoughts and move on you know it's a Korean Korean vet Vietnam even Afghanistan soldiers of some some of them are there and we sit around and we talk about experiences and not not more expensive but just experiences on what we feel and what we think and you know and how to make a better feature but you know so I couldn't talk about it to my family and friends because it I didn't think they would understand it but getting still get to the veterans we we seem to relax a little bit because we know these people understand because they even if they was in Korea war they just they still understood war and in their in the cost of the wars you know people died and people move on people do different things but it's an experience that you know you wouldn't want to wish on everybody because everybody don't want to don't want war not not as I can see I mean I know I didn't but I knew I was going to serve my country so but it is something to ask the person to do and that's why I said I I respect their career Afghanistan soldiers and was that Iraq soldiers cuz they're going back and back and back see that's not like you go do 13 months if you get through it you're okay they go do six months and then they go back for another six months you go back for another six months until something happens like you get wounded or killed that's all war this one did I kill and then people want to know about war go to the VA and go up the top of some of them vets in the hospital half vet broken vets you know it's a lot out here that people can do but they're too busy functioning on negative we meet once a week and like I said I've been doing this since 86 so yeah it's been a while and and I'm still learning stuff even though we just talking well we well we was meeting at the same place I go to the Norwood Norwood Center and then I ventured out and I said I'm gonna go and visit another group I went to Middletown - that's why I met Patti and hey it was an experience and I want to I want to I need to experience more because I've been shut in for a long time for 50 something years I've been shut in this wouldn't have done five years ago six years ago I wouldn't even I would he had to tell me about Sebastian definitely was making sure I was coming that's it hello okay I know he wants me there I'm going I said I'm gonna get down and see it I appreciated men here it's the first time I ever got a chance to not to speak to the world just to speak to anybody who would listen about war it ain't it ain't fun it ain't good for everybody what the one thing that I haven't asked you about that you and I talked about is there was a period of time that you got into drinking and drugs and you have rehabilitated yourself from that was it did you get into that because of your Vietnam experience right because I never when I've left here in December I never had never smoked marijuana I had I've seen other people do it but I wasn't into that kind of thing and I don't know it was just and I the drinking thing did you get into marijuana over in Vietnam yeah that's where I started at and then after you got back did you continue to do marijuana or yeah that was the only thing that I had I mean besides alcohol back over in the service that was liquor you know but I don't like being drunk because there's nothing good about being drunk yeah but marijuana I wedding a weddings to the point where I couldn't function or think I was just calm it was calm that's all that's all I ever looked at it is it's a hobby source of good meditation did we get into harder drugs yeah yeah here I did some coke and stuff like that but and then I've never wanted to be an addict not even for money or none of these you know our people love this and love that but it all started with it all started Vietnam right and you know I give you all the credit in the world for getting out of it yeah staying away from our day so that's and that even gave me a Center to quit smoking I used to smoke two packs of cigarettes a day but when I that chance to look around and say hey this is killing me just like the bullets are killing me tried to kill me but okay I was able to quit it and that I mean that's how lovely trying to spray this hope you know war is bad but I always looked at hope because it is out there well I am thrilled that you gave us this interview hey I'm glad Thank You visibility and thank you for this interview thank you alright

Channel: Cincinnati & Hamilton County Public Library

Views: 11,978

Rating: 4.6511626 out of 5

Keywords: Veterans History Project, Vietnam War, United States. Marine Corps

Id: hNOUzKg3r14

Length: 130min 18sec (7818 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 04 2019