V. Ramachandran, the Noted Neuroscientist, In Conversation with Rajiv Malhotra

[Music] welcome to San Diego thank you very much it's an honor to be here and meet you finally I have followed you read about you with great interest and I've always wanted to come and see you and have some interesting conversations so it's really my own entirely mutual I've read your work stolen been very intrigued and fascinated by Sanskrit and involve you so I'm with the professor Ramachandran who needs no introduction a lot is known about you and your great work in the frontiers of neuroscience taking it forward one thing I learned for the first time recently is that your grandfather was involved it was very instrumental in the Constitution of India right in the Constitution that's come in here in a bell curve with a primary tube frame across just veneer that's a picture from a letter from Gandhiji right right to my grandfather so I have so many questions and so many possibilities and I know some of these are not hard science per se but it's fun too greatly but it's fun so I like to adopt the scientific method and look at things which are verifiable which are reproducible and if they contradict models then we have to perhaps question the models so so in that spirit I want to ask a few questions one of my questions is there is a debate between the oral and the written the position of leading in dollar J's Sheldon Pollak is that history starts with writing so what happened before that when people were doing oral things order traditions passing it on Stern was writing he believes I've been subsequently is more reliable when it started yeah but even there before that history existed is an oral traditionally transmission correct and the fidelity of credit the tradition varies from culture to culture and correct misinformation correct so I want to take this and ask in the in the oral tradition if you have sounds there are being recognized by the neural system do you feel that the that each sound say the ohm sound or any sound sound like whatever sound of water it's particular sound has a particular signature and cannot be replaced by that signature cannot be replaced by some other sound is it unique is a sound unique the two views on this the classical linguistics view the surgery in music on earth there's no relationship between deed or object or topic and the sound that is denotes that object the word that you used to describe the object right completely arbitrary right he's never made any sense to me because the early evolution of language how did people name something you know did they say this is a banana everybody say banana banana it couldn't happen like that you didn't have a big arbitrary list and car started that way right so there must be some non arbitrary link between the word and the object designates right to give it a jump start to get it going right but once it got going evolution of language then later it became more arbitrary and then it becomes etymology a rather than sure resemblance between sound and sure object so if we but but also let me qualify also I think that there are certain constraints it I think certain clowns are more conducive to depicts and objects and certain certain propensity and constrains but no absolute right rules right so if we separate the meaning of a sound we say okay we we've designated a certain meaning to this sound but we separate that we just look at the raw quality of the sound itself having an effect I'm sure it does I mean this is the basis of internation for example this is what widely recognized but not adequately studied in my view for example I went to school in Cambridge in England and if you want to say really in England in English palpable possibly even in Chennai really really really really really really already produce about seven seven kinds of really and there probably many more about many kinds to describe what each is conveying in words you know quite a paragraph or two right you're conveying it with just a little inflection of the sound right so the inflection and the Andy and the nature of the sound does in fact convey meaning independent of the arbitrary relationship between the word and the object right that's being tapped into in languages like Sanskrit I think right right so when a person hears a certain vibration a certain sound vibration it creates some pattern of neurological activity absolutely and it may also explain the internation is one thing and I strongly believe that intonation and language preceded vocabulary yes there's an earlier stage in evolution when primarily international right and that in parallel evolved into music right and I think what we call raagas the elaborate scales we have in India because they work scales in the Western but the difference is in Indian music the scales have been classified in systematize into the whole molecular system right they made a science out of it does not been done in the West right but the emphasis always been on harmony and right multiple instruments right but it's here the scale perfection of the scale and emphasizing the nuance is the glissade what we call Kamaka and all of that the meta science out of that they have 72 main Mallika's all the generators right the ones which are pleasing the ones which are not pleasing I think that goes even further I think that you know sad raga but there are different kinds of sadness yes the sadness of the essential angst you know the world they may be silica berry or kamila personal sadness this pleading come from Deborah canola or something like something like Tennessee has this complaint quality to it right and I think the international cries and shrieks and growls and moans of early ancestral primates when we became human if you believe in evolution that is some of these same sounds became more subtly enhanced in continue this music involved in the music as we know understand today and of call 1 to reach these dimensions they're quite a whole life of its own so you have very subtle variations and emotion subtle distinctions you cannot convey in words at all so you know the particulars are a particular mood it evokes is no vocabulary other than that move itself so it's very hard to describe in words but maybe I'm going to get off you know III want to yet but this is very interesting what you said I want to understand that if there is a sound it produces certain logical activity that no other sound we produce the same activity it's actively ready so it has a signature there's that pattern emotional significant signature but also you're talking about a physical signature in the neural network in the neural network yeah yeah so even before I give it a meaning or an interpretation it has a raw quality like the the qualia of saltiness and bitterness and all that they can't be replaced with each other so recall it rasa Desa so this this takes me to mantra the claim that regardless of whether you know the meaning or not the chanting of a particular sound has a certain effect so this sound is going to calm this sound is going to do something entirely possible I mean I think that I've seen patients who and they depress for any reason listen to a particularly surprising and they are not teachable music but sad music who is the right raga it elevates the spirits makes them forget themselves in some higher something higher than themselves you know so but this is never being studied empirically this is the problem just cure speculation from personal experience and the Mellen listening to patients listen to friends and colleagues that particular mood is you work with particularly Roger which neutralizes that particular negative feeling that you have on that particular that would be an interesting experiment absolute to see the claim of what is the effect of a certain sound on people that's right and you have to start from the beginning what is the basic alphabet I have students here working on our Center working on Rogers this is only the site thing we are doing just for fun but we don't know where it will take a listen to try many raagas are supposed to have very specific emotions like theater or something Zera and Daniel see the different and everybody kind of has a different mood emotion but if I take these ragas and just without any collaboration or not even human voice just violin play the alarm play to a Western and uncured Western year but you get an American from the Midwest folks from California for their man or from California right right and then you play this vlog a dream and then tell them one of these ragas is is is grandeur and another one is it's pretty but one of them is hacia the other one is Veera one of them is Gita and alone is rodriram you tell me which is which and you just play them can they get it about chance well about it even though they have never been exposed to this this will establish the first premise will be very interesting other other universals are their genetic universal firaga are they are their sound effect universes exactly sound effect universe sound effect that could be aesthetic in some cases that's correct so you leave out rhythm from it because that complicates yeah now family of this rapid rhythm and that that's a different dimension right we stick to the scale right in the comic on the glycerine right characterizing that Rigali and compare two of them and say which is sad which is and then even within even sadness there is penance which ABAB unto our darling is about a sense of you know I don't so hard to describe I'm trying to describe it I kind of didn't hear it is what it is right but you knew people multiple-choice tests yes people have never been exposed to it and see if they see that the effect has nothing to do with whether you understand it conceptually absolutely and you let him do your cultural upbringing yes so that though that would be very nice to know so that because the claim in Sanskrit is there certain primordial sound certain mantras that are non translatable they're not only right so you cannot the effect this mantra you chant you cannot replace with something else that may have the same meaning that me conventionally human beings may say okay I'm going to call it banana but it the sound we are using is the sound we are using and we have to use that particular sound it's like a recipe with certain spices and herbs you cannot declare something else and get the same concoction now go further in terms of the right hemisphere is more specialized for nuances of meaning evoked by tonality and scale okay tone variations chemical scale no man lets me see as more consumers rhythm and a meter I see and and and logical sequences sequencing so it's possible to this whole vocabulary that there's a translation barrier between emotions on the one hand they're extraordinarily subtle and varied and language on the other end right pokken precise declarative language where you construct sentences John sat on the table which Mary put on the chair right yesterday some 16 that the declarative sentence no emotions involved and it won't be profound emotions involved no subtle emotions involved versus the emotional vocabulary of the right hemisphere there's a translation barrier because they're different languages yet brain is using completely different codes represent them so to some extent you can you can translate but only to a minimal extent so this is a challenge for neuroscience and for so this takes me to the next issue related to this when humans evolved it was a multi-sensory experience but writing is one dimensional linear experience and monochrome but my vision is not monochrome and I don't experience that tree in the linear fashion I experience the whole thing in parallel so do you feel that the advent of writing is not a cognitive enhancement but a cognitive reduction in other words a small subset of our capability is being used if I keep sitting right reading all day long whereas if I'm not spending my cognitive functions faculties reading I'm listening I'm smelling I'm looking at all my faculties using all my faculties so do you feel that since writing is a relatively recent introduction in our history in history for a eons before that we evolved not linearly linear processing and not monochrome so do you feel that the advent of writing is actually a it is inhibiting detrimental it's detrimental in the sense that if we are atrophying some faculties but the time is possible then a lot of these as possible that is useful for some purposes and it is overdone see a beauty as a society you could adopt the view let's some people specialize and it's okay if they are not athletic okay okay if they're not musical we're good at reading and writing so the question is do you want a diverse society with different specialization right at the expense of them paying the price but you could say in the muscular world one person who doesn't use all their muscles they just overdo one muscle they may be very good at that these are very good in one picture it becomes a slightly almost like a social sociological political decision especially in over specialization also so equating but but but to answer your question whether necessarily detrimental to your visual capacities like artistic talent aesthetics and yes music yes you always specialize then yes that's my personal there's no empirical evidence a lot of anecdotal anecdotal evidence to support that from neurology that people who are not literate have actually other faculties in which we the levels gonna say one of the things we're interested in is conditional dyslexia used to be called dyslexia when you're reading disability you perform reading is ability sometimes riling these people have extraordinary islands of talent in other domains they're very artistic or very poetic you know that sort of thing this is a cause-and-effect relationship there and whether the reading the writing and reading deficit led to the efflorescence of artistic talent it remains to be seen and then there is a precious few systematic studies do this yeah in anecdotal evidence and there is a tendency to say that education means literacy in the developing countries they are saying okay to educate people spread literacy but then the order traditions are dying their ability to memorize without writing is no longer there and that and is the brain retarding because they are no longer visible I've seen I've seen that in my students I mean for example Sydney Brenner was a colleague of mine at the Salk famous molecular biology is a Nobel laureate he for example pointed out that this is the one generation earlier about 20 good years when Xerox machines first came out now he belongs to the previous generation before that and all the Xerox machines so you trudge through the snow to the Cambridge library you lose the library mid midnight to find the general current issue of nature a science to go and read it now call user oxen so students go to Xerox it and put it in their file never look at it again right so you would advise them you or the new oxen not Xerox it right right right if you get this false sense of security that you've got to the provision here so it's in here but it's not in here same with not having to learn mathematics because you can always calculate it using some machine the exactly so so are we saying that with iPods and enormous amounts of you know mechanical memories human beings will just have to use search engines and not have to remember things is so in other words what I'm saying is are we actively faculties by not utilizing them and becoming bird becoming cluttered having as crutches various mechanical things that I can so called progress there's possible again there's no empirical studies and it's a question how do you measure one versus the other in the Berkeley setting and how do you empirically test these ideas it's common sense you don't have to be a somebody in neurology or neuroscience or somebody like you who's an information processing expert to transfer this question it's common sense right I mean that the over specializing something then you're losing ability but the extent to which that happen the extent ability damages other brain functions or a compromise where the brain functions I says it's not being studied and so I noticed that some of the best chefs in India don't read the recipe whereas the chefs in the West at all take two grams of this and eat it for so many degrees for 35 seconds and be so it's like a mechanical repetitious length just kind of discrete with it where yeah I've long maintained for example in schools and colleges this would emphasize poetry more than prose prose you learn on the fly I mean you learn at all the time when you talk and of course with a little to read literature but poetry is not adequately emphasized this should be done very early in it in schools it encourages metaphorical thinking linking seemingly unrelated ideas right is the east and Juliet is the Sun right you don't say Juliet is the Sun that means she's a glowing ball of fire I know she said she's warm like the sun's radiant eyes eyes glowing like the Sun sees all these links using more of the brain using you the ability to we become creative yeah so imagine so the person who played raga yeah he's not reading scores like in western music no that's so so he's using his faculty more absolutely whereas the person who is got scores he's basically replicating it that's correct so do you feel that when all these examples whether it's improvising in cooking or ragas or mem lots of memories the multi-sensory world less mechanized less linearised is actually a richer neurology and maybe a richer mind perhaps but to put a different laughing this would be its common sense I don't think that we don't have enough empirical information on this enough studies would being done on this Commons in that if you introduce things like poetry and and raagas and all that early in the school curriculum instead of just emphasizing grammar grammar you pick up on the Tomsky so this a long time ago the brain is already hardwired for grammar grinning teacher there's no point in teaching people about split infinitives and right you know all of that the other hand exposing them to Shakespeare explaining the Homer Toby Ruby at Tagore all of that is going to help them much more become become creative right and hopefully this creativity will spill over in other domains whatever the chosen permit profession is and not to be frivolous but even jokes humor should be ended it's very early in the curriculum I think should have a class for humor good idea because humor involves it's a very thing about a juxtaposing unusual to have suppositions of ideas yes in the same same thing as you're doing when you're being creative so this should be interviewing let me train the students then if you make them more creative like that that's a very good idea very good idea now the people who are reviving Sanskrit in India are saying that the British messed up teaching of Sanskrit by using grammar and you just mentioned that simply I didn't realize that but yeah they're saying that the traditional teaching of Sanskrit was not through grammar you you the mother tongue the mother doesn't teach you grammar to learn a language they absolutely just evolved through experience that's where embodied experience at a later stage you systematize it into grammar so the British wanted to translate they wanted to have clerks who translate native languages into English so they wanted rules and that kind of a thing so it became granel infinity's ramble method of learning so they are going away from then going back to the oral method of learning that's the Sanskrit Marathi they are going back into that not using grammar and kind of challenging that colonial method deficit I think we should live to see a day in India and when people just talk in Sanskrit and poetry yeah exchange central Sanskrit poems you know prose this takes me to an interesting point this one yeah when I was growing up I was raised in a western-style School in Delhi and I used to go to my grandparents village in Punjab and they had traditional school and they would sing the mathematics tables many times 2 is 4 2 times 3 is 6 multiplication table so there are multiplication tables and also even ABCD yeah but this is so then there was a later and I didn't know what why they're doing it that's a traditional method then there was a man East European called close enough he was a neuroscientist in the 50s he was sent by the Soviet Union to India to find out if the Yogi's have any extraordinary powers which could have military applications maybe they can see the sides or whatever they wanted to do that because CIA was doing some experiments which is known you know see I was trying to do experiments to see if they can let these powers and Soviets for doing the experiments so lozanov came back and said that the only extraordinary thing he found is that these Yogi's have huge memories and here the neuroscientist couldn't figure out why how they can do it because they can some of them he says can recite the tens of thousands of verses perfectly so lozanov went back to India and he said that he found that the singing of the intonation rhythmic singing of tables and so on so your tickets is it is encoding left and right brain because you're encoding the factual part in one side and in those days he believed in the left brain right brain kind of a thing so he said that it's a dual brain encoding and hence the memory is better because you're singing the facts and not just teaching teaching the facts as dry facts you're singing the tables are singing scientific knowledge and the pertinent or you are dancing the knowledge you're learning through many faculties you're embodying the knowledge into many faculties you reckon you're you're imprinting in many different ways right so he says that therefore he and he created something which is now called the accelerated learning actually learning materials credited to rose enough and it's all over the United States and that's what's catching on here people are doing similar things in the last generation or two and they the main teachers and leaders of accelerated learning in the United States credit rose enough as here goo and lows enough I wrote a book in which he talks about his experience in India studying how Yogi's memorize so it's a very interesting thing you know so according to him the more bodily faculties you use more senses you use in your learning the better that learning is going to be yeah well there's a whole school of thought now called embodied cognition yes as you probably know that yes Francisco Varela did a lot of that yeah yeah and our department here cognitive sciences at UCSD is world-famous for that yes and a lot of people studying in that your memories are anchored of course the anchored in the brain it synapses your body is involved with remarkable extent yes allowing access to instead allowing facilitating storage yes allowing access to these memories and we've seen a striking example of this recently in people called calendar synesthetes these are people who are about 1% of the population when you ask them to imagine a calendar to ask anyone of you actually imagine a calendar annual calendar in front of you visualizes what would you say but most you may look at it squares is how roughly and it's very vague right these people say crystal clear printed calendar in front of them sometimes like a hula hoop going around the chest and it's not read 1% of the population 2% of the population transit to the volute touching the chest January's year February March April is I can see the word April written there a PRI LM in some sense is a font see the font they see the size of the letters everything like a real calendar we didn't believe this if you notice the atom a question spontaneously what happened in January that immediately to do this so we are filming them without their knowledge their eyes are directed towards that they see they don't know the filament why do they do that or they'll move the finger that I'm consciously and they can do it again if you ask them to recite the names of the month so brilliant start from October so this proves what I'm leading up to these people really have a calendar in front of them almost like a physical calendar really visualizing visualizing time we can go backwards right yeah if you haven't looked at that right we lose a lot of information on the left side of the calendar they were never in as well they don't function as well yeah yeah all you're doing is turning her head so this is getting the access to that memory yes the left side of this is extraordinary yeah finding now I used to know Francisco Varela a few years before he passed away and he was a Buddhist he had been initiated by the Dalai Lama he was a practicing Buddhist very advanced meditator and and for many years he wrote a lot of Buddhist psychology and Buddhism in the mind and so on so he was crediting Buddhism as a major source for Mayan sciences then he developed these ideas he wrote about embodied knowing neuro venom here I just take a look at that because I was not aware of that yeah I have a book by him in fact I had a correspondence by him and then I had a long debate and one of these Tucson conferences on consciousness is happening here two weeks from now yeah okay so I haven't attended for many years but I used to attend hung around I used to attend his Hameroff I know I used to attend these in the nineties quite well and so Varela was there so once I said to him why you are you've discussed this whole theory of neuro phenomenology and advanced states of consciousness studying Buddhists and do these actual Buddhists measuring Buddhist meditators and looking at the theories of embodied knowing he got his theory of embodied knowing from Buddhism so he at he said this is the reason for translating it and leaving dualism out is it makes it more accessible to scientists so I said that's good but then where is your you've studied so many Buddhists in India who are actually having this kind of experience they're having this kind of these kind of faculties do you have a laboratory where you are teaching neuro phenomenology where you are actually giving these you are imparting this in an experience and sense and he was quite honest in saying that this is a sort of theoretical study but it hasn't been we don't have such people here so then we correspondence in which he said I do want to return my knowledge back to the Buddhist paradigm and acknowledged in the Buddhist framework what weirdest knowledge came from and we passed away unfortunately but his student evan Thompson continued this work and he is a cognitive scientist who's taken this embodied knowing and so on further so my one of my interest is to reconnect some of these discoveries in the Indian system that have become part of neurosciences and we connect them back to the sources because I think I can reach the source sure it can give us a new insight and sure better PC also systematic study of the various definitions of mind yes extremes have been thought mind consciousness could be monastic in all of these things and equivalent in English and I've seen some book they don't do a good job the word consciousness in Sanskrit has got over a dozen words different kinds of consciousness or contact with yoga like Tantra and here people immediately think tongues or sexuality right right there you hold so many dimensions to it make and all of this has never been adequately as one or two people right over guy in Berkeley I forget his name wrote a book on Tantra so but you read it it still very tense you need somebody to do research on it so we are doing that that's our part of our sedation Dhaulagiri bringing traditional people and then challenge elaborate and collaboration and having dialogues back and forth and gulapa shelter berkshire debates kind of style so they'd have to validate their knowledge differently so i wanted to move on to another topic i have been cured of some serious problems with acupuncture I had a serious not which the doctor said have to be removed surgically nothing else could be done but I went to this acupuncturist and he said I can I can cure it by unblocking the cheek so he did some needles and all that and I was so well that when I went back to my doctor he couldn't believe it that this has been fixed what was it here it was a not huge knot or not yeah the motto muscle ligament ligament and and nobody could unnoted through any means and the thought we should just remove it surgically so he said your Chi has been blocked and because your Chi is blocked me due to various issues in your life this blockage creates you know problems with your nerves and that creates problems with your muscles and this feeds itself and it's become very bad but I know how to unknot it now he was so successful then I looked at his charts the Dagda Anatomy China haircut he had he had the meridians and all these things and I said do doctors in the West recognizes he said no so I said how would you evaluate and improve it he said even we don't understand it's lost but the we proved it because empirically it works if it works empirically you cannot dismiss it but we're good to throw that it works empirically you'd have to do the controls right yeah group with yes random buddy Everton so so so Chinese are doing a lot they're investing a lot in Chinese medicine very successfully and a large part of Chinese treatments treatment is to Chinese traditional medicine and they are very convinced that empirically solid it works now the question is if something works but it's theoretical framework does not match the dominant Western area very incremental change then the traffic has to change so so that it works is not as easy as it seems medicine is full of bogus claims yes even in traditional assignments right right it's turn out to be false right and I'm sure this is equally true of traditional medicine yes yes so they're not all Toronto as of the placebo yes showing the determinant and it's not that difficult to do yes but someone would tell them that my experience is that two parallel universes yes Western doctors say has never been tested right converting a control situation no placebo control so let's dismiss it instead of saying okay let's study it correct those guys say well we already know the answer is working so we don't need to do your experiments prove it so there's this number they never get it done you know nobody is incentive to do it you see so now if you look at the equal of cheese prong and we have chakras so there's a whole Indian claim like the Chinese claim of Kundalini Kundalini moment and a whole system of intelligence and super intelligence which doesn't seem to match modern humans in anatomical structures yeah I don't know yeah so these needs to be studied even if it doesn't match it can be studied empirically reading studied in pretty Linda said make an e make a prediction what is this what is the symptoms what does this guy have can based on your system of chakras they make a prediction can we test this prediction right and if it holds up then then you have to go and revise the the Western model if it doesn't hold up then it's too bad or or claim that we don't where we are in a quandary we need to find a model correct maybe we don't because when the Newtonian model was challenged with the michelson-morley experiment that the velocity of light is invariant wherever you're traveling whatever velocity whatever there to change the model then you have to change and it was a while for relativity to come up and propose an alternative model sure so you may be in a state of confusion flux limbo between a stable model in another stable model yeah and you have the accept that and we're at sport science is the only thing is one several model makes predictions which are then confirmed and you do experiments in chocolate clearly and unambiguously now another tradition there's no proof they just say you have to believe us then that that's a problem so that's the problem now with East and West mean the our traditions need to show clearly in experimental situations with funding from government and from private entrepreneurs they're very simple to do and that needs to be done and then once you have their evidence then you can show it to people and say look we're very credible scientist we've done this work has been published and vetted and we know it's true doesn't fit with this model and you know the Western medicine empirically is true so something is missing from this right we need to change the model it right right before you take the first step of showing that these effects really exist you can't do that right right right so we have to start with it now and a good example is I mean even simple things like it's been claimed that the conditions are familiar trauma you know coconut oil helps us know if coconut oil helps is is wonderful then many anecdotal reports on the inner Internet so I tried persuading physicians in its animal Alzheimers it's supposed to help it if this is true you got Al's almonds drug you know put 50 patients on it could be based on ghee for six months you've ever done they aren't interested right we don't even cost anything coconut oil doesn't cost anything and what you pay for the residents in India you know you could for examining you guys once a week for six months you got anybody to answer right then it can be published in Lancet or Nietzsche legal gentle but there is a lack of zone bridge right between these two universes so if you look at this case of senioritis ramanuja the brilliant mathematician and manju bhargavi is promoting his movie the man who knew infinity yeah I saw that movie more amazing movie now Ramanuja came up with conclusions 30 proof without proof and said the goddess Tony works for him but becomes so you can't say I know where you're headed I know where you're headed I'm saying that that's empirical evidence because not all his claims are guided by the element that makes it even more interesting but his his true theorem could be validated even though he didn't have the proof yes here the theorem is not been validated I would like to see evidence that coconut oil does help bail them as patients but less than 50 paise we can't use the same arguments a brahminism didn't have any proof likewise I don't have any proof I want to see even the even the observation is correct yes but in American Indian texts from early texts all the v-2 ramanuja are full of claims like the value of pi' the velocity of light things of that sort which are which are found to be fairly accurate not perfectly accurate but quite accurate but they left they have no instruments they there is no evidence that the Rishi's had some kind of an instrument to measure the value velocity of light or whatever but they made audacious statements which are surprisingly accurate so is there is there a faculty that we don't understand some cognitive faculty at some state of consciousness where higher intelligence is there and I'm not referring to God or religion understand but I'm referring to some kind of built into the body I'm open-minded it's possible but the trouble is those instances where those claims are made they never come to the surface you know sometimes I tell somebody now Romania produces concrete example of this and show it to me it never happens and doesn't mean I don't believe them but that that extra step that bridge is what's always missing and that's why it's a wonderful thing that somebody like you of your state said and your your eminence and your resources can get this going in the case of Ramanuja if somebody if the British had studied him as claim when he said I I just know this to be true instead of sort of did it hurts can and they didn't have all those things but but but they could have at least asked him to explain how he does how he's doing what is on the meditation same thing the raga and I can translated in the world so here's some intuitive capacity to to prime numbers of it with any of these number theory ideas to tell you these ideas in his head and how it's done he himself doesn't know probably right that's what he says yes so there is a kind of a unconscious processing oh absolutely the unconscious process unconscious problem-solving all those established an unconscious astonishing abilities artistic talent poetry all of this established fact but whether it borders on the supernatural in extraordinary abilities you know that that's not been proven and whether you need to invoke some other principle or not we don't know yet but you know when we say supernatural anything which is non algorithmic people think it must be supernatural not necessarily a lot of brain processes which we think are not done algorithmically yes but exactly how they're done we don't know yes so it could be a extraordinary human potential good be adjustment you know within the human context yeah yeah I mean they're extraordinary aspects of the human mind human potential remain unrealized unstudied poorly studied it may turn out when you study them that the earth is long can be prepared to that possible yes yes yes but that's hard science that exactly other than the good chance it may not be a lot in may discover new principles of brain organization now one other fish in the brain we know so little that you have to be humble I was with dr. Watson blood who's an eminent Ayurvedic doctor in New Mexico for some treatment and he is reviving naari parrisha which is the pulse seven levels of pulse he says that the beats per minute is just one level of pulse there are beats within dekes billion beats and then he says that there are three fingers you use and each finger you can feel a pulse here here here here here different places you feel different pulses so he in the 2-year course 30 students taking that course and he's teaching them is very interesting so what one could do is to transduce these into I wonder if you do Fourier analysis of the lip of the waveform the pulse the components which correspond to what he's talking about he says certain pattern is most is going to diagnose something with your liver another pattern is your other organ my initial reaction as a physician would be to say that that doesn't make any sense but on the other hand I have an open mind of the scientist but here's what I am possible but here's what I am saying is the empirical fact okay thirty students are sitting there and he says okay now I've taught you this particular technique for libera or whatever one particular pattern he's explained so each of you do it on yourself and there's a form you have to fill out what you measured and then you do with your neighboring person for each other so they do that they come one by one to him he doesn't read what's in the form he measures that person and he gives his prediction his diagnose his diagnosis he's reading he's reading and the person reads it out and in 12 out of 30 cases it was an exact match so 12 those 12 students got it right normally even disease no no this is like your particular system your how what your see about your body types are what your liver body type is what your kidney body type is giving you that analysis whether it's disease or not he's telling you what the deal is not balance so yeah so what are you saying is that what I found is that 12 out of 30 students were able to get a reading which matched the teachers reading so it's not a coincidence that they're just randomly doing it so there is they were able to measure that they were able to detect those patterns now all I can think of is even liver disease which is very pronounced is going to affect the blood pressure in the portal veins and maybe inferior vena cava and somehow affecting the pulse in some mysterious will be not clearly understand but it's not impossible what I'm saying there are pathways it's affecting the pulse waveform is being picked up by the fingers so this heart disease valvular disease versus arterial disease versus liver disease there may be different subtle differences in the pulse form is being picked up but but the Western system is not even concerned about measuring the waveform more than just number of weeks yeah so so first thing is how to read it in the second issue but first is at least learn how to make how to measure a more complex waveform and that he is doing and able to teach his students so I think there's a lot of so if I call her to bring a person who lured as his cirrhosis of the liver early cirrhosis or at the kindness and if I were to bring some beers correct coronary heart disease bring him to the room and then not tell him who's who so I think he's really immature he should be able to tell and he was very exact in diagnosing he didn't it's very interesting he didn't want any medical data from any of us he didn't want to fill out a questionnaire like many are you well you could make you fill out a questions in the diagnose you he just wanted to feel the pulse and he told a lot of things to my wife and he said this is that that is the end was very accurate Wow it's pretty interesting so I and he feels that this once in a million dr. Lord led a ladies I lady he is one of the most mmm a National Indian guy he says that this nari parrisha the pulse parrisha investigation is thought of dying art and he's one of the few guys he's dividing it and his teaching students to revive this back so it's a different system of medicine than it is with in Ayurveda started subspecialty of medicines are all semi radicals and he will die he will prescribe the Ayurvedic medicines but he will diagnose it using the pulse a very interesting sort of a thing yeah so it requires quite Ning his mind quite me himself to such an extent that he can feel very feeble things which are nearly people won't be everything so this is an interesting point now I wanted to find out from you in your work on mirror neurons which is extraordinary breakthrough through one or through many breakthroughs the mirror neuron if I understand correctly works if somebody is doing something to my brother and I am looking at it happening then it will activate my mirror neurons correct but not if I weren't looking not even over - there's no telepathy involved that's what I'm getting and visual signal right so but we have the other kind of situation where our mother feels that her child is going through something and she doesn't have any cognitive information coming in you means in a different room in a different room maybe in a different place that's what's not being shown experimenting experimentally not a total idiot so you feel that that is okay nothing is the same phenomena it is not it is not the same time so is there a possibly and for the middle neuroticism didn't only didn't work anything again to use the word supernatural outside what we know kept pile of the chemistry and physics and physiology for somebody in the mother and the other room detecting the child's plight right requires invoking new principles of science and physics right and so it's not really part of our understanding but we know that quanta of light can be entangled yet another principle of entanglement and so so again minute peoples are saying there's quantum entanglement to me that's an extraordinary phenomenon and then many people say oh that's what love is yes you can feel love at a distance bit higher becomes more not not more than a metaphor right see one of the things I enjoy is designing experiments regardless of you know what the outcome may be even the design of an experiment is itself a very complex thing and a very big achievement to be able to just design experiment so for instance in the whole tradition of algumas which are the rituals the the text the Sanskrit texts the traditional text called a gamez described very elaborate rituals how you build a temple how you perform this you know all the practices young like still piss off Sara yeah and so and even the puja and or everything so their claim is that this is a science in the sense that your is something reproducible you do and you'll get some effect now I would like some empirical studies done to see yeah or was 2+2 and maybe maybe these things are too extreme you know people debug it yeah or they say I know like I don't already have blind faith what we mean is what you just described by systematic reviews experiments like let my not have 10 fail right one the wives yes the goldmine is a huge thing I mean if you look at the number of claims and and you know the nine that you dismiss you do everybody a favor you do the traditional favor just get rid of all the quackery this whole you know system of our gama's system of practices claims not only a sort of entanglement between one mind and other mind but also bill objects so you are entangled there's a certain place which is in vibration it has it produces and in fact it could be a sacred River it could be a sacred tree it could be a deity so the neural network the consciousness the the mechanism of consciousness is somehow entangled with certain kinds of matter the trouble is of course they're using entangled in different ways and yes physicists description of classic tug definition of endtime this is a specific meaning price then metaphorically we say brain is entangled with somebody else when they're in love right metaphorically were entangled right so the trouble is we will no want to cross these boundaries and we don't have the same rigor they're in a very rigorous definition it means maybe a different thing yes altogether yes so that's why we're treading on yes a nice and we had to be careful yes yes so lot of the things that kept distinct Stu hammer office into this is he he yeah he's into this and there's these microtubules and all that you know in the brain you've seen their theories of consciousness quant as a quantum effect you know so if consciousness would if consciousness is a quantum effect as some of these guys say then all of quantum physics could be applied to neurology so and not they don't make that link this is said yes now it's a problem with sometimes in genetics everything one mystery then you just say there's another mystery little explains mystery right doesn't follow right right establish that is true yeah they've been at it for a quarter century it is what group of may be true yeah it may be it will be end something to it but they need to the winning case will be if they predict something which is not ordinarily predicted very good and that time something as a prediction is counter-intuitive something that you haven't predicted already I'm going to predict it using this theory then it comes out to be true that's a breakthrough and that hasn't happened yet yes I agree with it I have a healthy open-minded attitude towards claims through and I want to subject them to test to actually integral test now there is a third eye awakening where they block the eyes had children are taught I've seen the children taught third eye Whitney there is a guru in India who is teaching third eye awakening and I have seen young children and you can inspect their mask is black in its cover you can put your own mask on them and whatnot and they are able to read with the eyes closed with the mask with a blindfold they're able to read I've seen one example of a kid who came here and it didn't work when I tried it okay that doesn't mean it's easy yeah and they said it doesn't work when people are watching or something like that not on this onebut but the thing is what I found was if the parent was not in the room then they wouldn't do it so the person had to be in the room and they were giving some unconscious signal not with any intention to deceive but is unconsciously there they're giving a yes/no answer because I would like to send somebody like that okay I would like to send something like that and I have the rhythm during the rigorous manner yeah yeah do it in a clinical manner and let's find out okay it would be Isis oh it will be interesting thing your finger you're good at detecting yeah yeah false positive none of that sir that's a yes now there is something called the Princeton engineering anomalies lab here and it was set up by the head of the Dean of engineering some 25 years ago one of these students turned in an experiment where people had to guess the outcome of a random number generator and if they could remember they would do it good above chance above chance 3 Delta's removed and all that some people could do it they will bring a lot of people and find out some people can do it and there's no explanation you didn't try to have an explanation and it was a very big taboo that Krawczyk was taboo the Princeton University but the person injected was the Dean of engineering so it was his favorite project so it was put in the basement and it went on for many decades and now there's a guy retired so they moved it out across the street but that's an interesting thing because no one could pulse if I it either they couldn't prove why it works but it only works with some random people and it's one of those anomalies you just call it an empirical anomaly we didn't say to chose anything but this is an anomaly yeah well the problem arises as to you know how you verify all of this because we're not there it was a secondhand third-hand reports by that by the time you get a third hand report we don't know how much it is being exaggerated or not I don't know yeah nobody comes more of a problem of communication and sociology and right you cannot make sense they had they had lots of engineering type people come and check it out so but anyway I did not look at that it's for me it was just me take something something like Galileo's experiment the big heavy object in a smoker pee you drop it from a great height the pollen same time I'm like I just thought exclaim that the heavy object falls first any school said now you know I can take you now if you challenge I can't even them the roof of stairs and show you right the problem of the experiment is you can't do that the minute you say moment is there something is wrong and is America's ISM and it some guy tried it somewhere else it worked and always something you know some doubt you see that this is the it has to be foolproof be fool because people so I want to talk about universal versus cultural particulars which is one of your topics yeah both the fascinating yeah both of us any so I want to understand if you if you some people say that this fairness fair skin color as a preference as an aesthetic preference is some kind of a universal and I'd question that in India at the universal that's what people say anything is you know so I think I think universal and in northern climes because of the whole UV the several theories about it which I'm not familiar with but it has something to do with vitamin D in the skin and UV light led to a preference to light-skinned people some mutation but you know if you look at if you look at all the day 80s are dark-skinned even for the Nationals cultural probably because a lot of them like Vishnu and okay intro video detective but we but their deities we don't notice the begin or your kind of divide but the rate is the preference so the agenda caves which are in the north weren't not tempered by any invasion than all that they have lot of dark-skinned people who are rich they've got jewelry they are the ruling elite sure so it that it seems that we cannot consider that to be a sort of for universal that that is a sort of a no everything is universal at all it is not a universe of largely consider what about things like good one doesn't know there could be a propensity because has to do its vitamin D in a production of vitamin B protection from skin cancer diamond pigment crying if you're too light-skinned you're exposed skin cancer you to task and you don't make enough vitamin B right so it's a trade-off right this may vary depending on the intensity of light and UV light in different parts of the world right so the cultural influence but then building on that there's a cultural influences well yeah but you know before because because people don't do again hard work and labor in the out in the Indian year outside Sun usually a data collection well-to-do so there's an association mental association between being fair skinned and being well today but now it's the rich guy who goes to the Sun Times over the beach and he gets a ten and the poor guy sits in a factory and use it so the steady get also reversing maybe that's good so but another thing is I find just anecdotally and experientially I find that Indians are very comfortable with what Westerners would consider chaos the the ability to deal with something unexpected happens yeah that's true I enjoy the chaos I mean I go to Chennai once a year and but India you missed that kill yeah to say so I have is also grass on the other side so I have a I have a theory that Indians are more comfortable with great amounts of complexity greater amounts of complexity and when the complexity is beyond the threshold of the cognitive system of a westerner who wants less complexity then he defined that as chaos chaos means that my it's a system overload and it's beyond my threshold of complexity so it's called chaos my paradigm cannot manage so many variables moving parts and so on and I think it has something to do another threshold in the West is differently yes and I think if anything is not cultural I mean I would write about things called the cultural yes so it is because in the West I'm saying it's different okay so so and I think it has to do with the law of excluded middle the ice totally and logic whereas in the Indian system it can be true it can be false it can be both true and false if there's so many possibilities so many truth claims possible and I think the binary good evil yes no both in the biblical heritage and in the a deep thought combined together to make a system of logic linear thinking sort of a thing and and and law of excluded middle there is no nothing other than two or false so we allow more ambiguity and more flux more complexity and comfort with uncertainty I think there's something to be said for the Indian comfort with uncertainty that browser comes with the world caramel ocean that seems of the bed meant to be the way they are or things are misapplication of that yeah but yeah so let's leave out the social religious myths application but let's just say that there are certain cultures where it's not important for them to nail it down to be very predictable yeah to have a predictable outcome and if it didn't have so long to die traditions - they've got this - camilan oh I don't know you're pronouncing you know this was not the phrases in the Kabbalah Kabalah is different come upon the Torah yes the Kabbalah I think there's a thing called the pickle melon which means it could Kingdom meant to be the with the way they are and the progressing could cause you larger good and we're on a journey something along those lines so that still is logical they have a certain teleological outcome but in terms of rhythms for very vaguely reminiscent of karma and come on already yeah yeah but I would say this is not even about Karma this is just a cognitive cognitive comfort comfort zone you come the comfort zone is more elastic you also when you come here to on vacation to India and your comfort zone is initial you carry the American composing with you and your breakup yes after dare to disturb lines that's how I am and then when you go back there I am so happy I'm very very like very happy that I went to India and became comfortable again with all that so as a neuroscientist what do you think of cultures which where there is greater comfort with complexity uncertainty chaos versus cultures where there is discomfort with all that and the very upset and angry even well obviously the ones which are common sense would suggest people of the chaos a more adaptable but that's just nobody the counter-argument given by Western I've written in this book I have over chapter order versus chaos in contrasting the civil Indian versus Western kind of minds the counter-argument is that the people who are comfortable with chaos won't do anything about it and they'll just sit until they'll be slaughtered I'll give you an example within Europe itself this is pure speculation you know the trouble is because you're being well in neuroscience people think you're an expert and everything which is I'm not obviously but it's play speculation do you go to Europe you cross the border from Switzerland to the Alps to Italy right personalities completely different it complete very tolerant to chaos and yes Italians had like Italians of that they're not punctual and the guy in the train announcing an owl and arriving in Milan when you're giving the timetable with in Switzerland various stations then he said the sooner hips hit Milan there's no timetable you know it just takes over it's all chaos and he's making a derogatory statement so I was telling my friends that you know they invented the Swiss watch but as the Italians give us a Renaissance give us Galileo give us you know maybe that the actually the Girardi talent is very creative despite all the chaos I don't think they're more created in this way in general there is a Protestant versus Catholic issue also at the part of the Catholics will tell you that this idea of orderly stuff and all that is more a Protestant Northern European lives Northern European trait versus the southern Europeans my I was in a retail is just across the border half an hour cross the border all hell breaks loose but I and I enjoy that and I like I like counting I was in a in the software area we were a US delegation in France installing some software and the night we were going out to dinner and this French guy was driving and so he was saying look your software won't work in my country so my cousin very upset why won't it work he said because it's assumes you are instructing the person operating the terminal you're saying do this enter this enter name into that in our country we do what we feel like so we're not going to take those orders so this is this kind of a directive injunctive is not going to work forever in front of us in front in France he said it won't work this very anglo-american style of thinking that was my first time I heard about the difference between the anglo-american and the continental the continental people make a big deal out of it so then we were going when we're going to dinner there was a light traffic light and was red and he it was like 1:00 a.m. so he went through it and he says look in your engine when chest stop you stop in my country it means look around see if there's anybody there's a cop it's kind of a guideline if I don't want to have everyone Indian here yeah so he says in my country is normal I would go through my New York under you never go through you sit here it's a dumb thing for us because you're sitting here for for what there's nobody around why were you sitting here so he was making the point that there is a cultural comfort with uncertainty unpredictability not not abiding with rules and so on so do you feel that if X society has had one or the other too much order a lot of a lot of complexity and chaos for many many generations then it becomes a signature that is sort of encoded into the neuro system do you feel that this can be a not really come together than the traditional view in biology is that you can't inherit acquired characteristics as you know the Lamarckian view we become more exposed to computers become smarter as a result in your lifetime or more educated or more skilled that cannot be transmitted through the genome to offspring only be done through pedigree no truth was teaching verbally or through every every generation has to relearn all of the had to relearn all of that exactly so you don't think that Beethoven are great maestro's of any kind could have been an inherited quality could be inherited but I'm saying Kim came out of the blue ARS by gene changes in the genome or a shuffling of genes and alleles right created a unique brain called Beethoven right it's not because his dad was smart that believed about the genes but the exquisite skills he developed as a musician which he requires exquisite new skills he can transmit that to the offspring because there's no memory the brain changes in the brain can be transmitted to the gonads to the testes and to experiment alter their DNA no known mechanism how about epigenetics well that that's the new trend so people are challenging that right I said that's accepted view so I'm looking for differences which are in the civilizations as they've evolved because of different climates different there's a book by a guy named slain and it's called the alphabet in the goddess yes I've seen that book that's pretty good unless I've seen that book I think he also talks about alphabet being sort of the written and the goddess being sort of the world over exactly it's a writing versus visual and visual visual versus written that was our in the beginning of our conversation the oral tradition printed and the visual tradition and when it becomes written down when it becomes written down it also becomes more order systematic algorithmic grammar rules logic use a precision yeah so this is good for some purposes or not good for other purposes yes so I would say that it's not that disorder or Kay and comfort with chaos is always good because it also makes those people complacent because I became music somebody were to say don't you learn it just learned it scale you know the notation and transmit the absurdity immediately and you will get noise here you get noise yeah see the absurdity immediately so the same is true of approach to not to the same extent but so comfort with and disorder our chaos is doesn't mean that there aren't any rules to learn you become a improving provides raga after become my in fact the interface between between chaos and an orderliness did you get interesting things going on creativity happening culminated Santa Fe Institute is talked about right but I don't know the to this complexity and then which is takes place the interface between chaos on the one hand and orderliness another right now what the mathematics of that is I'm not familiar with but so you have to talk to her somebody who specializes so one of your discoveries remarkable insights is the importance of symmetry yeah and and peak shift mm-hmm are those because we want to reduce complexity symmetries a way of reducing complexity that is more compelling because in the natural world the symmetrical object is all about detecting objects you want to detect objects living things not just what do you want different living thing living to the doodly prey predator and mate vital for survival extra one second can make me and make life make you live or die right and leave behind offspring right so that bias towards symmetry makes you detect using an early warning system an early alert system here's a potential may look at it so you turn your head look at a do further processing and you say there's a potential mate let me make Priscilla or potential enemy you know the threat let me run away from here the symmetry the first thing that minimal processing you realize when the living thing ask efficiency the efficiency exactly and it's all these coding efficiency schemes that there are utilized in art but you got a lot the artists loves to titillate them a tweak them what optimally then with the natural what otherwise physical causes artists not so he's more optimally treating them in some device but by trial and error but reserve an intuition create aesthetically pleasing images the true visual artists crude music so for example I have the speakership principle which we talk about our flat ensure that square and a rectangle every time she sees the rectangle II give it a piece of cheese then soon soon develops an affinity to the rectangle I mean to the rectangle and ignores the square right it likes a rectangle rectangle means cheese right goes that but now you throw away the square and give it a long skinny rectangle no original rectangle it prefers the longer skinnier one to the original even though you never taught it so you get stupid why is it not going to a one unit product because it's brain is learnt the concept or the more rectangles the better motor time the better Wow what at that time goes actually and this is kind of a recurring theme in many works of art for example to troll a bronze with voluptuous people but that's just scratching the surface isn't that nothing just being a voluptuous female little work of art but that undoubtedly the artist is stamping into that but there are higher order principle that's just for female form that the higher order principles in form and color and motion with the artist is typing in to evoke specific emotions but then it gets more abstract when you go to the sea level you take a single knee the chick hatches and it begs for food from this mother seagull right the mother then regurgitates have digested food into the gaping mouth of the baby's ego giving people swallows it in this happy so to recognize the mother it looks at the big just a big because you can pluck the beak away yours is malicious scientist you can wave this big which is just a long rod with a long long long object with a red spot on it you wave it in the ship goes crazy and worship said if you know the real mother goes for this abstract object this an oblong the right spot fetishizes it because it's doing something to the neurons which is more optimally titillating them then a real real big right because the way it's wired up now you take a long stick with three red stripes typical haywire give up everything else all these chips are mesmerised goodies laws and even though it doesn't look like anything I'm saying this happens time and again in human aesthetic experience you get getting these what we call ultra ultra normal stimuli or super not supernormal stimuli yes so I think the brain is full of has all these templates for different visual patterns for a for a in the case of the check it's looking for a big right you're giving a exaggerated ultra normal big right it doesn't look like a be but what is go do they sitting appreciation human let's take that rather like their body Canada right we all know you listen to it and it moves you to tears this is a good century long separation from God you listen to the beautiful rendering of it I think it's the infant infant crying separation cry anxiety from the mother right you certain notes did you stretch out and it's got a certain scale what you're doing is you create an equivalent of that stick with the three red stripes for that infant separation cry and then you get this beautiful raga which is not mere separation anxiety from your mother but separation from God okay so these kinds of trips are being used to create all these scales I don't call them tricks it's going to be little in them but these are static principles steady principles they're shortcuts you can say to experience in the divine indicates in the case of humans and even put it that way vir more toilet where it and better scientists when I'm arguing the circuitry is excited more optimally by these ragas you're tapping into the emotional primitives of sounds guttural utterances in early early on human evolution an amplifying them in subtle ways to create foggers so we could say that God is defined as the extreme case of a peak shift there exactly it is in that in that sense there exactly so I want to understand if group identity is one of those universals because of evolution because of survival because of processing groups were necessary so you can we say that group I learned is part of being human and this is why the mouse cultural revolution failed because he wanted to get rid of identities or anyone everybody to wear the same you need badges sense of belongingness to our own kin right I think that's common sense um you don't sort so is that a yeah but is that a hardwired is it hardwired I was there a universal so young so then egalitarianism and the atomic society which is which the Enlightenment is trying to have is against the against nature against the way we hard white people are going to gravitate towards those who are have affinity with for some reason yeah I agree with them so that's a that's a yeah so it's not political left-wing right-wing kind of issue no no that's dropping internalized against things the political systems are tapping into an instinct is already there right Mike right belongingness so therefore I think there's also another element to racism and the discrimination what it is is that you say I'm not as smart as George obvious choice model but my group this must murder them that his group and I belong to this group so Group Association becomes my part of my portfolio of who I am exactly and you're artificially enhancing your portfolio or compensating for your sense of inferiority with one particular individual but saying you may be smarter than I am but I'm low climate so and so so therefore rather than trying to get rid of identities is it better to say we should promote difference with mutual respect which means that we accept this as a fact of life that there are differences and these differences are not all over the differences are cultural and culture language knowledge base but not an opportunity right the difference is lead to differences an opportunity then we're not an enlightened society yes no that that's a policy issue right that's a policy issue and of course but what I'm saying is that in terms of right now there is a difference anxiety I feel that people are facing a difference anxiety when they meet somebody different there is a kind of unease it could be a difference anxiety from above which means I'm superior so I'm real anxious or difference anxiety from below which means I'm having very complex who's this guy way but not sure what your question is so my question is is is if you agree that difference is think group difference is a natural thing the group different and individual different I see is natural thing then then what ought to be promoted is respect the difference mutual respect for different little bread even celebrate the difference Ramanujan was off scale and number theory I can't do numbers for huh admire them for it now as I do neuroscience it as number theory or manju bhargavi with number theory right so same is true of groups I mean but we don't know the difference is a genetic or not I mean people of and claim it that it is no evidence either way so I'm neutral on that now the study of genetics is allowing people to discover not only who they are at ancestrally but also what diseases they'd like you to have yeah what talents they might have so a genetic study of the genes of a person may be a basis for deciding who they hire or not hire in the future who will get medical insurance uh because ethical concern right yeah so is this so it could lead to whether somebody gets insurance or has to pay more because he's more likely to get a disease living his time and again when people have done this is always led to ban not good yes great historical rate science yeah was part of it yeah so we have science leading towards another epoch of potential for rate science right and the whole more we individualize model of so many other pressing problems and in society and so many diseases that need to be cured so much research that needs to be done on many aspects of human nature why focus on them I think something about the mentality at people who focus on that the Polish may our troubles me well but you know if you can tell who is like using I'd like to know what Ramanujan what makes him special sure and then see if that can crate can be inculcated yes people but I don't want to know yanomamö tribe and and Nepalese has helped slide one Cooper's in difference in mathematical talent and then maybe this is important I mean I let somebody else do that I'm not but if you want to optimize allocation resources then you would say that this person ought to be encouraged in music and this person should be encouraged in mathematics so troubles we don't even know the basics here yes of music and mathematics before you go that far yes and then the question is in society what do you value more only somebody says I value athletics then this becomes you bit or must be careful so but you said that these are these cannot be inherited these qualities in an individual owner they can be inherited ad 90 so acquired during a lifetime yes we've had quite a good session wonderful thank you [Music]

Channel: Infinity Foundation Official

Views: 94,876

Keywords: rajiv malhotra, infinity foundation, mind sciences, India, Dr V Ramachandran, mantra, Om, Raga, Hinduism, Indian Classical Music, Phantoms in the Brain, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran, V.S. Ramachandran, Sanskrit, Memory, Neuroscience, Prana, Chakras, Isha Foundation, sadhguru

Id: JB_lc00AWIE

Length: 73min 54sec (4434 seconds)

Published: Mon Aug 14 2017