Two Essentials of Church Planting

Brotherhood multiplication restoration we are sin Network we're a family planning churches together join us as we hear from leaders of this movement from across North America and discover what it really takes to plant churches everywhere for everyone today we're talking with James Roberson lead pastor at the bridge Church in Brooklyn New York about the fear in church planning and the necessity for planters to love God and to love the people in their city [Applause] James Robison Fleming I mean it's always good to connect in there you know to talk with you I'm just gonna just jump right in you know and just talking about church planning right we are saying Network the idea and part of being a part of sin Network is that like our heartbeat is that we you know our heartbeat was like we want to be the last generation that has to leave the urban context for sound discipleship and you know and part of that is that seeing a church planted you know in every community if we're gonna be the last generation that we got to see more churches being planted our strengthen some of the churches that are already there you know and for the vision for sin network is that we want to see a healthy multiplying church in every community across North America yes but sometimes there's a danger in that right this idea of wanting to you know fulfill that dream you know but at the same time understanding kind of the wreckage in the carnage that kind of goes to church planning let's just talk about like one for you you know you're from New York but you left New York for college but then you went back to New York you and Natasha to plant the bridge in New York talk about first let's talk about like this your personal challenges of being someone who was perishing in you know - which was because a lot of church plants are parachutes you know couples moving into a neighborhood or a city you know talk to me about your journey first and just kind of their struggles in that I think that um something I didn't realize till I was in it because I even though I grew up in New York I didn't grow up in Brooklyn and so Glynn has its own unique challenges and I grew up outside the city so I was basically a suburban kid planting in an urban space so I wasn't used to the trains I wasn't used to the rent I didn't have apartments I didn't grow up on the block that kind of thing so I back then I had like a thick New York accent but I but I still wasn't from all that so I couldn't relate but I had an advantage and part of just being a minority and being in majority spaces I knew I always had to be a learner I knew I had to like understand different context so because I had been displaced because I had I had to adjust myself to cultures coming into Brooklyn in general first was just learning the people learning the pace learning the struggles that they had and I learned early on that you know what people in New York really feel is a desire for authenticity above all else but its authenticity matched with great skill right so it's good that you're honest but if you're not good at what you do you get cancelled really quick and I just learned that through conversations with people just hearing people talk you know and so but when we got there man you know it was cold man I mean I was coming from Atlanta you know I was down in Atlanta before that I was in Raleigh before I was in Texas so I became an adult in the south yeah I went to Virginia to play college football when I was 17 but when I you know by the time I was like 36 I moved back to the city and man I just wasn't used to wearing like fat gooses anymore I wasn't used to like Tim's I just wasn't used to that I wasn't you know so coming back adjusting to the weather but then adjusting to the rent I mean that was crazy you know the thing about New York that is challenging is that the rent is equivalent like San Francisco has similar rent but our square footage so for 600 square feet we're paying $2,500 a month $2,700 a month and and then you add the cold and then you're trying to meet people so that combination became very overwhelming and I think is overwhelming to a lot of guys so how did you do it how did you go mean parachuting in it's you Tarsha you're in the city and we're like I go plant a church you know and yeah and we bother with supporting for a couple years yeah in order for you to do that yeah you know I mean this this talk about that challenges that challenge are the challenges that you face with that I think the first thing that was of the most important is that I could not operate out of a fear of failure yeah because I knew that if one I had failed before and I always keep this Midtown I kept the mentality that you know during the NCAA tournament you'll have a 16 C play the number one seed and when the sixteenth pleat seed plays the number one seed at halftime if it's close the number one seed might be winning but the sixteenth seed even though they're down by four they're like celebrating because they're happy to be in the game yeah right they don't even just think they deserve to be there there's just so we're happy just to be here and so I tried to keep that sixteenth seed mentality like I don't deserve New York I don't deserve a big plan I don't deserve that I'm happy just to be in the game and so that kept me positive it kept me christ-centered but I would wake up in the morning I had a big whiteboard in the apartment I was in I had a bunch of names of people I was calling to raise support I would do that in the morning and then I would do that I would kind of organize that by from 11 o'clock to 2 o'clock I would make phone calls just phone calls phone calls it felt like people were free at that time and then at 2 o'clock I would walk down the street down Fifth Ave in Brooklyn from the David II missionary house where I lived all the way down to the Barclays Center took a half an hour and so I would do that every day and so in the morning like I said book acts I'd read that do my calls walk so I did it for two weeks straight nothing like I'm reading I'm like come on guy like nothing's happened yeah yeah yes I'm like you know that was my plan and I didn't see I wasn't raising no money and I wasn't beat no people so I was like okay Lord this is not working and finally I met well I went to this one coffee shop I just needed to go into a coffee shop and then I called up one of my friends his name was Wade is a DJ Wade oh and I had he lived in Jersey and I was like Wade I need to meet anybody like if they don't have to be a church planner they don't have to be a Christian they just need a pulse they need to be alive like just let me meet somebody so I said wait who do you know he says man I know this guy named Danny if you meet Danny he'll connect you to everybody I was like worried okay so I was like what's his last name he was like I forgot I was like okay I was like all right we'll give me his contact he was like I lost it seriously he's like I lost it I was like what Burnie lives in who's like man I can't remember so I was like yeah I was like so you mean to tell me this Danny is in New York City you don't know what borough is and you don't know his last name he was like nah I was like hi man well when you find that information give it to me so we hang up the phone at the time I was in a coffee shop and the music was really loud and I walked out of the coffee shop and while I was outside I'm telling you like the fear I felt in that moment like the doubt like what am i doing you know like in this very moment after I got off the phone with him like I'm trying to find people I can't find nobody in that very moment I looked across the street and there was a church called Park Slope Christian Tabernacle right next to the Barclays Center I go back into the and it was a in New York most of the churches are very gothic looking old and if they're there you rarely see a new looking Church and it had a new light frame in front of its storefront but it had a new like windows and doors and all that stuff so I go inside back to the coffee shop I go on Google and at Google Park Slope Christian Tabernacle go on their website go to the about paste their lead pastor was a guy named Luis Alvarez and their youth pastor was a guy named Danny Sanabria and I was like this cannot be okay I was like I was like this cannot be the Danny yeah so I walk in so I I'd go across the street it was a Wednesday night and the light was on they were having Wednesday night Bible study so I walk in and I meet this woman she walks up to me and I said listen my name is James I know a guy named Wade in Jersey he told me out a guy named Danny and she was like wait wait oh yeah she was like Danny Danny snobbery yeah that's my brother I'm Lily Sanabria I was like so you know the Danny she was like that's my brother I was like okay and then at church became the building where we would do our Bible studies in and they said to me they were like what do you need I was like everything I need everything I need friends need I need an office I need a phone yeah I was like I just don't have anything so they so they let me office out of there that let me do about so I had no people yet but I had a place because I didn't know if I was gonna plant in Brooklyn or Harlem I just I didn't know I just was like God opened up a door so that door that opened Danny really did connect me to people that's how we got our first website it was from meeting with a guy there so we just made our connections and then a month later a guy emailed me and said he had heard I was there and we just discipled them and we started our Bible study with two people rich rich yes tsunami yeah so from from that and he just that he become the Gateway to kind of better than that quarantine so so everything I had read about church plan it was like fine peacemakers you know in their network so I remember you know I met with them and he went to Old Dominion University his wife wanted to do and they were dieter to have been a church for a year they hadn't been to church for years so I took him out to eat at Applebee's took his wife out got to know him they said hey we really want to be a part of your church we don't go to church I was like great you know so then I made my move I was like tell me about your friends and I'll never forget they're like we don't have friends I'll never forget that I was like when you say you don't have friends like now we just like chill at home and whatnot so I was like wow so we started the Bible study with his mom his brother her best friend and her sister that was the Bible study yeah and oh man like two months where two or three are gathered yeah it was it was just us and I just but that's all I had like and I knew I had them so I was like I don't know what this will become but I have them and then over time I met I met a girl named Mona in a Panera Bread in a coffee shop I met a guy named carvings let's not actually a girl on our team met a girl named guy named carving Sun on a train so then and then they began to meet people and so I went from two to ten des so when did you for the transition going from just survival I don't know if this is no maked I had the fear that you walking out the the pizza spot or a coffee shop - okay god I could start feeling like this come where this is this cohort so we had been going we started the Bible study in June of 2013 in December of 2013 we had two people leave the team and I had that's when I really began to doubt you know because the young lady was gonna be our worship Lee the guy I wanted to make him my assistant pastor and in that moment I was like oh can I lead you know I'd already faced failure before and so those doubts started creeping in like can I leave so I went to North Carolina during Christmas break we took the Bible we took three weeks off a Bible study went down to North Carolina to see my dad got sick while I was down there so I was depressed I don't know what I'm gonna do so I just came back and I was like I don't know if anybody's gonna be in Bible study during that time in New York they was having this thing called a polar vortex I can't explain it to you it was just very cold yeah and it seemed like the coldest day those in the in that month was always Tuesdays and that's when I was in my Bible said Tuesday nights and the Bible study from the three weeks I've been gone had grown by 15 people on a polar vortex Tuesday while you were gone yeah while I was gone you know we had didn't have I was said so there's a polar vortex there's - sounds like I've been gone it's a polar vortex whatever that is I know it's cold nobody's gonna come and we had grown my 50 people yeah and I remember just seeing you know you're just hearing the door open you just keep hearing the door open you just like and I'm almost wanting to break down you know in the middle of it because there's a miracle yeah so I wanted to quit so many times you know that was job was that was kind of like God its moments like I see you it's gonna it was like no yeah when you were sitting there in the in the Bible study and you know you know those nervous feelings like if you throw a party or if you're doing a Bible study that nervous feeling like nobody's gonna show up you know to mean that feeling and then like and then it's cold you're like no one's really gonna show up you know and and then you just here you just keep saying this amazing and I mean they're just knowing you and there's knowing kind of the journey and just even the fears that you had and that you know and then it going and seeing churches in passes that they're storied in indents and where that your story is indeed yeah you know and then they did have to shut down they did have to move back they did yeah like what is some of your fears as you know as we have this desire through the last generation they have to leave the urban concepts and discipleship bar we want to see a healthy multiplying Church like what are some of your fears or some of these planters or even as you've seen some of the planters move to New York that had to close their doors now yeah that did not make it like what are some of your fears with that I just I don't we were talking about you know you were talking about this the other day you know our lives were changed by Jesus you know I mean like one day just we had an encounter and it was so powerful that we wanted to share with someone else and we call that doing ministry right that's what that is that's doing ministry and we feel like there's a mission that we want to place that in and so from the activity of doing ministry and having a focus on a mission those are the two things that I think should be stirring inside of us always no matter if it's a church plan no matter if it's a city if it's a rural if it's suburban that should be stirring inside of us constantly church planting is very entrepreneurial its fundraising it's finding a building its children's church it's microphones it's stages you know and I find so many people who are focused more on planting a church than doing ministry right so when you come into the city you can already see them thinking about launching you can already see their desire to get a certain amount of people and but but it takes a long time to learn people's needs to know how to serve them to understand them and so it's and in a lot of ways my fear for a lot of guys is that it was never really about ministry it was always about like this church planting industry right and when you get into when you see church planting industry more than you see ministry then you you know you're thinking about websites you're thinking about your cards you're networking but you're really not serving and caring for people I don't know I've met too many church planters who love New York but they don't love New Yorkers right and it's it's a point at which you start loving New Yorkers that you'd even be willing to stay if the church plan doesn't work out yeah cuz you want to see lives change right and so how do you make the distinction between loving New Yorker New Yorker this is this the thought of being in New York I mean I can't stand New York yeah I hate the cold and you know the other day somebody was like you know you're from New Yorkers like yeah they're like you know you're at you don't sound you know I'm an accent you know sound like you from York I was like my rent sounds like it's from New York okay thirty seven hundred dollars in rent you're not I'm saying like I don't like anything about that but what but I love the people you know and and I endure with the people and yes they're they're raw and you know the average age monitors are 26 to 85 percent single they're a bunch of creatives all these Millennials but I love them you know and I so i endure with them I'm patient with them you know there's been times I've wanted to quit the Sunday service but I didn't want to leave them the people you know and so when I say the people I'm talking about Emmy and rich and Lou and Josh and Jes and their their son Calvin like I'm talking about names and I think that you know that distinction comes with just names like you know I love those names and and I love the condition I love to minister to them in the conditions that were in in the city and I think that's it's when it's the point at which you become passionate about ministry that you're willing to endure the challenges of the industry of church planter yeah there's a chip dot as a quote in his book voice authority says about passion and that's what I hear and what I hear you saying is a passion is a willingness to endure the pain for something that's greater than the pain one of the things you talked about in terms of the mentality that you have to have him going into New York is that you got to come to the cruise knife you may never own home yeah you may like the tremendous sacrifice that have you never you rode ever over the home unless you become rich or something you don't know I mean Kelly don't have a home yeah once he said that I was like oh you have a house he's like yeah we'll never have a so I was like what that I told my wife that night I was like Tim Kelly I got out so I mean so is this kind of like that's the type of passion that you have I mean do you see like what separates from those who make it and those who don't make it is it just the that that love New Yorkers versus New York is it this the willingness to endure the pain like is it that we're we're putting them out you know out there too quick too fast like I mean what is some of the things that challenges it's a man if this is being film right all right one when you've grown up in the suburbs of the south particularly like husband and wife you you know you dream of backyards there's a particular way that you understand raising kids the city you don't have a backyard you have a park so you don't have privacy no you you're not gonna go to Walmart you're gonna go to the bodega you're gonna go to the corner store you don't have a washer and dryer you have a laundromat so just off top and your pen and you're living in 600 square feet 700 square feet and you're paying an astronomical amount of money so just the physical challenges just there become so overwhelming for a husband but in particular a wife yeah that's where I see it happening the most cuz the guy you know the guys passionate he can do anything yeah he had these guys like and the wife is like hmm and they get there and then it gets real cold and then they see you know then they're bundling up their kid and he looks like this big igloo walking down the street and she's trying to get lunch just to do laundry and she's like is it she's like is this worth it is this what I dreamed of I was born in Alabama or born in Texas or in North Carolina and it's just like ah and I miss my family yeah you know so though the and then you're paying so much you're having to tell supporters and then when you only have ten people showing up and you know in the South you know folks have this they're conditioned to think growth numerically it's interesting because what I try to tell people is tell your folks you're on mission like overseas like give them that vision because if you have ten people in India we're cool with that but in New York you're like you got ten people okay we'll keep praying you know you need to have a hundred so you know so yes just that ability to understand you're in a very different place and different contexts I think is the most helpful for the husband of the wife to understand and their ability to endure last question a church planter not from New York yeah I'm not from a big city mm-hmm they said like I'm about to say me my wife and my family into the city and I want to change the world I wanna I want to make an impact you know I want to plant a church what would be your advice to that to that couple that is coming into a city or specifically in New York they're coming to New York to plan because I hear about the numbers they hear how hard it is and it was like I want to be a missionary I feel God's call for me to be a missionary in this city what what advice would you give them you know Jesus says everything hangs off of two things right love God love your neighbor I think you have to keep your hearts posture and a love for God that's why you're doing it but then in loving your neighbor it can never it can never become so much about Sundays if I could just encourage you don't use Sunday language so quick use people language oh I'm doing a Bible study around we're doing a cookout or to some anything but just the minute you say Sunday if I say the word chicken sandwich you think chick-fil-a right because it's by association the minute you say Sunday service you create an expect in yourself in your people on your prospectus amongst the people around you in the city and they create and I don't care I don't care what you cut it's a tractional if it has a microphone just attraction and so the minute you create an attraction 'el space you put a tractional pressure on you and you can't match what's on YouTube mmm you can't match what's on Facebook and that's what people are seeing so the best thing you can do is talk a lot about ministry hold off to Sundays till you get about 6070 people well at that point one it's an actual crowd yeah there's a reason to have a microphone yeah just off stop and then but then - you have enough corley because if you're really trying to reach unchurched d church people you know what unchurched d church people do after Sunday service they still act like unchurched D Church people they don't come to church every Sunday so you you've got to have enough of a core team in order to deal with the transient nature of people in the city and and if they have any kind of like upward mobility they're busy so 60 to 70 gives you like at least a crowd that you can actually feel like okay there's a reason to feel attraction and then over time over the years you up the ante on your children's directory up the ante on your on your worship you know you up that side of it but hold off because if it's not done with excellence you're gonna get people who feel bored I hear you saying hold off but what do you say to thus ending and supporting churches in from the south or from other places putting pressure and like are we supporting how do you know whether we're putting our dollars around a good thing or like like that how do you know when you're hitting the nail and it could tell me call me I mean I don't know I mean I think at the end of the day are you trying to take what you experience in the south and just transplant it up to the north or are you willing to learn culturally what it takes if you're willing to do that then you'll allow for there to be we're not saying no launch date just acknowledge we want a launch date with some courts some some dinosaur launch indicators yeah and a launch indicator would be a benchmark some benchmarks that's all that's all we're saying so that way you can the desire to have something you know if you're supporting people you want to know just a win but you also want to know what's a win for us in terms of people because the crowd matters creating a crowd matters if you're gonna do Sunday well so much more to say some little time to do it okay man I really appreciate it thank you for just your vulnerability transparency you know doing this time and I really think that this is the message that a lot of us need to hear when we talk about church from the mic it doesn't end our desire to wanting this to be the last generation but we want to do it in a way that is god-honoring and we're not leaving people out you know to fail so thank you

Channel: North American Mission Board

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Id: sI8I9BvnW54

Length: 24min 42sec (1482 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 06 2020