Turning Saw Pins!

yep nothing can go wrong here this operation is going to go great can't possibly be doing anything wrong here yep this is going to be perfect just set this up it's going to go perfect hello internet my name is quinn and this is blondiax the other day my friend rex hits me up and says hey quinn i'm making a turning saw for woodworking and i've designed a new kind of pin that holds the blade can you help me prototype these things and i said absolutely now you're thinking woodworking on blondie hacks i've thrown a lot of shade to them over the years but rex's channel is different it's all hand tools and if i was ever going to be a carbohydrate foamer i think it'd be hand tools because i find it really beautiful and amazing what they do so let's help rex out with these pins this is a turning saw pin or bow saw pin woodworkers often buy these because it's the only metal part required to make one of these saws and so it's a common woodworking project really my problem with woodworking is the power woodworking tools machine tools are stately and civilized whereas woodworking tools are screaming banshees of dust and death and i really find them unpleasant to use anyway more to the point here's the pins that rex has designed so let's get into it i've got this piece of 12l14 steel here which i think will do nicely so i'll cut a length off sufficient for two of these pins because well you need two for one of these bow saws or turning saws the portable bandsaw makes short work of that and it's over to the lathe i'll start by facing this off as is tradition now i had just done a regrind on this tool so you can see i've got a little nub in there it wasn't quite on center so i'll take this opportunity to adjust that a little bit facing off a part is a really easy way to see if your tool height is correct or not and if that nubbin faces off then we're good to go we're going to need plenty o tail support for these long thin parts so i'm going to put a center in the end here with my number two center drill now the goal there is i'm trying to put in the smallest center that i think i can get away with because this is going to be a small diameter part and i don't want to eat up the entire end of the part with the center if i can help it so now i can pull the stock out to length and i'll measure how much i need plus room for the parting blade just a rough estimate and i'll put a little witness mark right there now most of this stock is going to get turned away because we're making small diameter parts out of this but the largest diameter of the pins the center boss is only a little bit smaller than this stock so i'm turning the whole bar down to that largest diameter and then i'm going to mark where one shoulder of that large diameter disc in the middle is and i'm going to turn down this end all the way down i'm making a lot of chips on this project but it will make the pins a lot stronger they're all one piece so i think it's worth doing this this freshly re-ground tool is doing great this is a hundred thou pass 50 pound depth of cut which in steel is quite a lot for this little lathe once i get down to a small diameter though i run in a room for that tool so it's time to bring in the little guns i've got this special tool for this situation it's got a 55 degree angle ground on the back of it so it'll clear the 60 degree center and i can get in there real real close and finish up this job i'm going to put just the tiniest little bit of a chamfer on there just enough to break that corner doesn't need much and then i'm going to put a generous chamfer on the other end as generous as i can get away with i have to get in real close to the center there and you can see how i did that basically i was looking straight down on the top of the tool as i did that and as long as i can see light between the end of the tool and the spinning live center i know i haven't damaged anything now i'm going to mark the final length of the part here sort of pessimistically i'm going to leave this generous and i just realized i forgot to face off this disc here in the middle i was taking heavy cuts and so i wasn't able to come up to the same point every time on the dial indicator there so that needed squaring up i had left a little bit of a dome in there now we can part this thing off whoa come on super chip hang in there you can do it you can do it super chip for the win oh and yahtzee now we can face off that rough end again put a new center in it and then activate the bar feeder and we have stock for number two and we make the second part with all the same steps now then time to get rid of the three jaw and bring in my new toy this is the ebay junk bin collet chuck that i made in a recent video it's going to be the perfect thing for the rest of this job a little sidebar while i set this up when i made this koala chuck a few people suggested i should try different positions and look for the one with the lowest run out so i did that and i marked it with a zero there because my chuck mounting ring has a zero on it as well for the three jaw as it turns out in the original video i got lucky and actually hit the lowest run out spot so yeah that's as good as it gets so i'm going to start with a larger collet so i can hold the large end here the stock and i'm just going to push it all the way in and face off the end there to get rid of the parting nubbin and make sure it's all nice and square and now what i can do is pull it out again and measure the overall length of the parts remember it was roughly parted pessimistically there i show this because i think a lot of beginning machinists under-appreciate the importance of indicators in machine tool setup you know a lot of people think that you can use the hand wheels to a certain point but anything more than that you've got to have a dro but indicators really can do everything that you need a dro is just a more convenient form of setting up indicators for all of your carriage moves so don't forget that anytime you want to move a slide on a machine a very specific amount you don't want to worry about backlash or imprecision caused by coarse markings or whatever set up an indicator that's what they're for i'm aiming for 2625 and well look at that if it's good enough for the guestimators it's good enough for me the cool thing about the collar chuck is i can swap out to a quarter inch collet flip the part around still maintain pretty good concentricity and i can work on the other end here just put my center back in there and we are good to go we can turn the other end so i turn this down also to that small quarter inch diameter and i leave that big disc in the middle there if i didn't have the collet chuck i'd be doing all this with the four jaw and there'd be a lot more dialing things in and so this is just very convenient i have to say once that's roughed in and i just face the end of that disc there to the proper size and then i just clean up that inside radius there and once again chamfer that end hopefully without gouging up my live center this end is going to be threaded so i'm going to put a little thread and groove in there with this half round tool this is going to do a bunch of things for us it's going to make a nice curved profile in there which is stronger than right angles it's also going to provide clearance so that this disc will thread snugly up against the wooden handle and it gives us a starting point for the threading tool in there there's the blank for one of the pins i made a second one the same way and we are done with the lathe for the moment we got to go over to the mill while we still have solid diameters here that i can use to put in the collet block and i'm going to set up to drill some cross holes so i need a little machinist jack for support there and i'm going to find the center line of our cylinder and i'm also going to need the end then i'm very carefully centered drilling some teeny tiny little spots here at the top just so that the drill doesn't wander off and then i'm pre-drilling a little bit smaller than 1 16 which is the reamer that i'm going to run through here it's a very very tiny reamer and thus a very very tiny pilot hole i'm drilling two holes here one is just a cross hole that's needed by the design and the other one is going to be the end point of the angled slot that holds the turning saw blade that'll make more sense here in a minute but here goes the teeny tiny reamer this is the smallest dreamer i own this is a 1 16 reamer next comes the feature i'm most nervous about i need a very thin very deep slot right down the center of this thing so to find the center line first of all i'm using a feeler gauge above and below so that i have the same distance and i'm using the half function on the z-axis on the dro and then i'm going to get some oil on there and i'm going to bring this slitting saw in and the idea is i'm coming in from the side so that the forces are lengthwise along the collet and that way i don't have to worry about not having any support here out on the end the teeth are all running longitudinally as far as the collet is concerned however let me speed up the footage here so that you can see something that i couldn't see in real time because it was happening a lot slower did you see that yeah remember that time now i know you weren't there but remember that time when i forgot to tighten the collet on this part and proceeded to try to run a slitting saw through it yeah well i got away with it until i came around to the other side i flipped the saw over and reversed the mill direction because i didn't have enough depth on that saw arbor so i needed to come in from both sides and well in this direction things got a whole lot worse scrap metal so that was a bummer but i put on my big girl pants and made the part again and that gave me plenty of time to think about how i wanted to do this differently so first and foremost i tightened that collar block and i also took the time to make a new slitting saw arbor here that has much better clearances and tighten that collet block make sure that's good and tight yeah and this new sling saw arbor will have its own video that i think and i'll just tighten up that collar block again that i think this new slitting saw arbor is really going to be the ticket here you'll see how it gives me much better control and the better clearances allow me to do a better job here get the angles that i need to to reduce vibration and uh the grabbiness of the saw and uh tighten that collar block and we are good to go let's try this again here on round two you can see how the better designed arbor the increased clearance there gives me lots of choices for angle of approach on the saw which i did a lot of moving around here because coming in from the side it reduces vibration and chatter because the part is so poorly supported out here but coming in from the end the saw cuts better makes better chips so i basically was able to find the sweet spot for each step here along the way and when i got close to final depth i didn't have quite enough depth here on the end of the saw so i did have to go side to side a little bit on the arbor which means there will be a little bit of a widow's peak in the bottom of that slot but it's not going to hurt the function of it here which is just to provide clearance for the saw blade it was a relief to have that terrifying operation out of the way and now i can move on to the other kind of funky slitting operation for this i'm going to need a little fixture so i found this v block in my scrap bin and i machined one corner off of it there and that will allow me to set it up at a 45 degree angle on the corner of the vise like this and hold the end of the pin here this will prevent excessive stick out here for this next slitting saw operation i'm putting a 1 16th gauge pin through those holes and it's a good fit because they were reamed and then i can use an adjustable parallel on either side since the front and back of the vise are the same height i can use this to make sure the part is correctly rotated in there now i need to figure out how far to come down with the saw so i'm using a feeler again to find the top corner of the part there and then i need to go down the correct amount and to do this a little bit of trigonometry was required which i won't bore you with you can see how helpful it is to have better clearance on the underside of the slitting saw arbor that old arbor i had was always in the way so this operation would never have worked now you can also just line up the slitting saw by eye with the side of the hole there which honestly probably works just as well as all the math but we are ready to go here now i was a little bit concerned about the slitting saw deflecting upwards because it's engaging with a sloped surface here so i just kind of took very very gentle cuts on first approach and just let the saw kind of make a flat spot before i go in too hard now luckily this is a pretty thick slitting saw at least by hobby mill standards this is a 1 16 saw so it didn't seem to deflect really it didn't seem to be much of a problem but then i was able to work my way in there and the setup was nice and rigid so there was no trouble making good chips here and because of that pre-drilled hole i don't have to worry about how deep to go here i just go until i break into the center line of the hole there that was very easy and that actually turned out great with all those weird slots cut i now have another fun tricky thing to do and that's cut the threads at the other end these need to be wood screw threads because they thread into a wooden handle which i've never done before so this is my model this is a number 14 galvanized wood screw from a big box store and i'm going to try to replicate that thread so a little bit of inspection suggested that it's 11 threads per inch give or take so i set up a test piece just to see if i can cut that so i set up the change gears for 11 threads per inch i don't have a thread pitch gauge of that size so i just measured a fixed number of threads and it looked correct so i decided to see if i could cut this with a regular threading tool first and just going into a depth that was sufficient to kind of close up the peaks and make them sharp i've learned the hard way to always do a test piece for a new operation that you've never done before or you're not totally sure about and i'm glad i did because this one took a couple of tries to get right so this was my first attempt and it looks sort of okay i had to stop short of the thread peaks closing up because i was getting too deep there was not enough material left in the center so i drilled a pilot hole in a piece of wood and tried threading it in and it did thread in but i could tell that it wasn't cutting its own threads into the wood it was just pushing the wood around and you can see that it tore out a little bit of the top of the hole there and i could tell that on a delicate turning saw handle it would probably split because it's not cutting its way and it's just pushing so this is not a proper wood screw thread as you can see here what needs to happen is i need flat landings between widely spaced sharp threads now of course commercial wood screw threads are rolled they're not machined but i'm going to try to machine them so i've got a little jig here for my grinder rest that i use for this type of thing so i'm going to grind precise 60 degree angles on both sides and it's basically just a standard 60 degree thread cutting tool but with the end blunted so it'll create those little landings between the threads and allow me to create sharp threads without going too deep so i did two more test pieces and it took me a little while to get all of the dimensions dialed in but the one on the right there is the sweet spot where everything kind of worked out just right so that threaded right in there very well it felt just like a wood screw going in and then on inspection you can see that it's cut itself some very nice threads in that wood there i don't know what kind of wood this is dead trees all look the same to me but it seems like a good wood screw thread now the end isn't pointed so it's not fully self tapping the way a regular wood screw is you need a little bit more of a generous pilot hole but that'll be just fine for this application so with the threading dimensions figured out i can go back to the lathe now with the real parts set them up here i'm just using my fishtail to square up this new threading tool that we just ground get my tail support in there and we are ready to go and there's some run out as you can see there on the part i think there was something a little bit cockeyed in the collet there maybe there was a chip under it but i i did notice it but it wasn't enough to really be a concern here for this operation so i just let it go and i did a little test and the threads look like they are the correct pitch so i went ahead and started cutting and this was all pretty low drama this 12 14 steel is very nice to cut didn't give me any trouble even with the blunt uh thread cutting tool there but i was using the compound just like you're supposed to at 30 degrees just to minimize the cutting forces here because this is a very deep thread and again the end of that thread cutting tool is blunt kind of like an acme thread like a little tiny baby acme thread like like fisher prices my first acme thread as far as depth i had determined experimentally with my test parts how deep to go so i was just looking at my indicator but you could also just blew it up and go until the peaks meet up and make a sharp edge so it'll cut into the wood and i did go ahead and put a generous chamfer on the end there even though it doesn't have a proper self-tapping point on it at least putting a chamfer on there will make it easier to thread into the wood last step is to put some little wrench flats on there so you have a way to tighten it into the wood and i wanted 50 thousand clearance there on the shoulder so i've got a stack of feelers in there and while i'm milling it's singing like a tuning fork so putting my finger on the end there quieted it down and this was a pretty easy operation to get to the right depth and then use the magic indexing function of the collet block i really like call it blocks they're fun and if i just match it up to the edge of the vise same as it was and i just go back down to the same number on the quill dro and those flats will be identical and the wrench fits on there perfectly so here you can see how the wrench flats are really key to be able to thread these pins into the wooden handles see there would be no good way to do it otherwise so those are looking pretty good i'm pretty pleased with how those turned out but the real question is do they work as turning saw pins hey rex give these a try for me will you so here's rex installing the pins and that handle there i believe is some sort of plant-based substance i'm not exactly sure how all this works which i guess used to be like alive at some point wait if parts of this are alive does that mean you have to feed the saw after i don't know i'm going to stick with boiling rocks and then the blade goes into the angled slot like so and you need two of these pins of course one on each side of the saw and then the saw is tensioned in some fashion like this hence bow saw and here it is in action and the power of this saw is it allows you to turn the handles as you cut and make very intricate curves and very fine cuts which i guess is useful for tree jockeys i don't know i just work here well these were really fun to make i was surprised how challenging some of these operations were i hope you enjoyed watching me make them if you like what i'm doing throw me a little love on patreon and i will see you next time you

Channel: Blondihacks

Views: 97,405

Rating: 4.9689541 out of 5

Keywords: blondihacks, machining, machinist, abom79, this old tony, vintage machinery, steam, electronics, making, maker, hacking, hacker, lathe, mill, woodworking, workshop, shop, model engineering, engineer, engineering, live steam, machine shop, metal lathe, vertical mill, metalworking, metal shop, jewlery making, diy, home improvement, resin casting, how to, do it yourself, do it yourself (hobby), mini mill, mini lathe, tutorial, turning saw, bow saw, turning saw pins, bow saw pins, rex, rex krueger

Id: LQN6TmWhLC0

Length: 19min 7sec (1147 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 21 2021