Tucker Carlson Interviews Hunter Biden's Ex-Business Partner Part 2

so where are you from and how did you grow up so from uh Long Island I was born in Seacliff Long Island which is a little Victorian kind of hippie town in the North Shore of Long Island born on the same street as my wife Dayton Street uh yeah and so for for the first three years we were together on the same street her her uh I'm a year older so her mom used to babysit me when I was to eat Cheerios off the floor where she was pregnant with her which is a pretty funny story and I moved to Roslyn Harbor which was a mile away and then we went to nursery school together uh ended up at the in the North Shore school districts my mom was the art teacher at Glenwood Landing school and went to North Shore High School we were you know prom prom dates uh senior year and then dated for a bit in college and then uh you know reunited after college some some years later but Long Island ended up what what set that yeah like social socioeconomic context is that like a really rich part of Long Island or middle class oh we're a middle class very much middle class my uh my dad worked in the city uh he was in um he worked for Levi and Christian Dior in sales and my mom was an art teacher as I said so I actually went she was my art teacher k-6 um so yeah so that was pretty normal very normal very middle class you know three sport athlete you know lacrosse winter track football um very kind of even though it's a long island and close to the city it's kind of very Americana yeah you know surprisingly so then you go to Yale for lacrosse I did I did well I went to Yale for the academics but we like to keep that uh you know yes but lacrosse was a big part of me being admitted absolutely what did you think of it was it a different world from the one you were from uh yeah yeah absolutely I I you know it's it's a long time ago to reflect back but it was certainly uh there was there was a big culture shock both academically and socially immediately like first weekend of school so in what way just uh you know it was I I got to school and uh you know there were I don't you know without naming names there was I was you know at the first week in a school I was in New Haven but out in the the cape with you know folks that the you know highways in New York were named after and you know large condiments and tires and stuff like that it was it was definitely it was it was a it was a big culture shock but I you know adapted pretty quickly from a academic standpoint the academic rigor was certainly from a public high school in Long Island relative to Taft or you know Exeter Andover there was a quick learning curve but but it was attainable and then socially I think I did a fine job as well too so ended up yeah ended up at Yale um went through four years we had a you know successful lacrosse career there which was which was you know an absolutely incredible experience and kept you in line kept you in shape yeah um less distracted from everything um and graduated I ended up you know my a quick stint into the into your world ended up working on the Olympics for NBC for Bob Costas um down in 96 in Atlanta uh and then went on to take a job at Citibank so that's where I got my first age experience I was fascinated with Vietnam uh um and it studied some you know Contemporary American history in college my dad was a veteran he was a marine served in combat at the high van pass in Vietnam in Vietnam so he was in Vietnam when he was 23. I had you know I'd gone on a trip around the world and really just you know one of the stops was Vietnam um one of my one he told you about it when you were growing up he he did we more we kind of we were a little bit irreverent would tease him about it and get get dressed up as fatigues and you know tell them we're knee deep in in rice paddies and trying to like flashback or something trying to elicit PTSD baby yeah we were a little we were a little wild me and my me and my three brothers and sisters so that we we he didn't talk about it much but we tried to bring it up a lot it was kind of that's brief yeah it was it was it so you wound up working for Citibank I went up yeah I went up getting a job with Citibank in Vietnam I kind of orchestrated it through an uncle that had a relationship Citibank and yeah ended up getting a management associate job there uh moved to they just opened DOI Moy was uh was kind of underway which was the you know the not necessary privatization but the opening of Vietnam post uh the war the conflict the American the war of American aggression yeah I've been uh you know coached to say as if you live in Vietnam for for some time so went there was a management associate was in Hanoi for a year and then a couple years in Ho Chi Minh City and ended up at citicorp Asia Capital limited where I was in private Equity so wow that was the yeah that was the beginning where'd you go after Vietnam after Vietnam I uh I was I actually it was there was a non-profit that had come through to produce a film about Vietnam which involved a bike ride uh on you know on mountain bikes from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City it was an 18 year yeah 18 Day ride you know the 1200 miles and we had a you know production team actually video it City but they asked me at Citibank to sponsor it so I wrote a like a letter to New York and said we sponsored this amazing event we've got a hundred uh you know NVA disabled soldiers and we've got 100 American veterans primarily disabled and we got on bicycles and hand Cycles I piloted a you know a blind veteran that had been shot near caisson and spent 18 days on a bike going over those memories and then actually this is how I left Citibank I got a call so this is amazing experience yada but any but we we um I'm sitting at my desk at City Bank in Ho Chi Minh City or I know I forgot where what city what office I was in got a call and said you know we had such a great time with you riding on the bike would you come back and produce you know be a co-executive producer on this film and you spent and you could get a job one one of the the you know the benefactors of the charity was the Goldman guy one was that um uh Equitable Financial at the time and they're both the CEOs or senior Partners we'll give you a job you you have the training at City Just Produce the movie for us and so I went back and we ended up you know selling I worked very closely with a with a with a great colleague down in Charlotte we sold the the um we sold the film to NBC title sponsor we sold it to Reebok as a title sponsor I got dick enberg to do the intro got Bruce Springsteen to donate a song um yeah shut out the light and uh it was it was it was a great success we won the Emmy in 99. so daytime outstanding program achievement so one for one element production Award winner I am yeah amazing so what'd you do after that uh so after that I ended up going the the one um kind of principle at Equitable Financial had moved over New England Financial um so he taken a new job as the chairman and CEO New England Financial I went into the special you know strategic uh it was Strategic Management Group um and did a little bit of it was primarily like almost like like an in-house Management Consultant in finance like across the business they put me on a lot of different special projects and uh it that was you know that was that was my job for the next couple of years and then we were actually bought by MetLife um and so when New England Financial was brought by MetLife I went down to New York very quickly in that acquisition but my boss who was the CEO and chairman became the president of individual life at MetLife a much bigger organization so it wasn't as interesting an opportunity so I went out and started a technology company with one of the Consultants I'd worked with uh previously one of the management Consultants I think it was at Anderson and we started tech company and sold that in 2004 to co-active Marketing Group which was a NASDAQ listed company and then from there so so that was kind of an exit while I was working very closely on the carry for president campaign so I was a volunteer um I was essentially raising Capital organized some different you know uh kind of um I guess surrogate tours and bus tours with some celebrities stuff that since backfired but but you know that can't be Italian you know for it seemed to work um and basically was was poised through kind of the success that I had in um in the fundraising that I was gonna go and take a job in the white house so I thought I was uh you know going to work in small business or there was some other you know there were all the the larger kind of uh bundlers I was a baby bundler I think it was identified as in some some in the New York Post at some point but um but you know I ended up you know looking at those jobs and looking at you know what would you have to do in security clearance and all that long story short it sold uh satara was the name of the company that sold um and you know poised to that where we thought we were going to win and then you know what was it November 3rd 2004 I basically um hung a shingle and said I need a job because we lost so yeah I remember that yeah yeah I was in Boston I think was crying I was with my wife uh yeah I remember the hotel like looking out at the state the acceptance stage which like there was a couple of you know straight you know people struggling running walking around the stage and drunk yeah exactly unexploded fireworks and uh yeah so that was that was an unsuccessful run but I spent a lot of time and put a put a big effort into it and it was a great experience you know we got we thought we were doing a great thing and and unfortunately it's hard to beat an incumbent incumbent so so 2004 November you're with me I'm married no job yep without a job and I team up with a partner and we start Rosemont we start Rosemont capital and Rosemont Capital starts really as in the private Equity World which in something called a fundless sponsor so when you're when you're out and in private Equity early you go out as a fundless sponsor and what that means is you don't have a pool of capital to kind of draw on but you look for an asset you identify an asset you think is going to be a good you know good private asset that you can either take public or sell to another strategic buyer so that's always kind of like the infancy of a private Equity Firm and a lot of fundless sponsors succeed a lot of fun with sponsors Fall by the wayside and you know a lot of a lot of managers that fellow sponsors just give up but if you have some early successes you can end up you know establishing a firm and we ended up establishing a you know a multi-asset class Boutique firm that that was uh it was fairly successful most of our success was was in real estate um we ended up buying a real estate management company and that was called Rosemont real we renamed it Rosemont Realty it was called you know bgk or some acronym and we ended up putting the Rosemont brand on that after I would say five years in business at Rosemont Capital um and that business was was sold later in 2015 but at the you know at our Peak we probably had three billion of assets under management which is kind of like your scorecard yeah as a private Equity manager um and uh you know had had you know we've done some great things was Hunter Biden an original partner at Rosemont no no no Hunter Biden I uh came I I met really or had I had met him before but had like substantive conversations at a lunch I met in 0809 so oh so you were stat business was was quite established we had raised we were we were in the you know Rosemont Seneca Partners came along really at the time that we bought Rosemont Realty so around 2010 I don't know the exact you know the exact dates right now it's a while ago um but Rosemont we had we had uh we had an initial fundless sponsor deals so two or three four deals that we did independently and and worked those deals then we'd raise the fund so you know uh we had a 2007 vintage fund which is the year that you started it's very clever um we had a 2007 vintage co-investment fund um and then um we we actually raised out of the financial crisis we raised the talf debt fund um so reinvesting in in asset-backed Securities and then we um kind of we did some other we had some other sub funds and Technology But ultimately like kind of the big successful piece of Rosemont being Rosemont Realty which was this acquisition of bgk so how does so it sounds like you've got a perfectly self-sustaining business 3 billion under management that's success I think yeah absolutely no it was it was so how does Hunter Biden get involved and why so we had you know we had this um we had we had this lunch and a mutual friend or it wasn't you know I don't know how it was but an attorney of of hunters and other hunters and attorney as well um had introduced us and we had a lunch and we always you know you're always looking for kind of an edge or an advantage as being a boutique and and certainly three billion was good but as as an AUM number of scorecard but in real estate it's kind of a levered number so it's a little exaggerated right if you're you know if you're Blackstone four and you have three billion you have three billion of dry powder if you have a you know private small private Equity Fund with you know three billion under management a lot of it's real estate it's actually not the actual number you have in dry powder so Nuance but it's very liquid exactly it's very liquid and you don't have the buying power so you're always looking for an edge you're always looking to expand um and we had obviously you know had had we were demystified to Washington just through relationships um and Hunter was in a he was in a stage where he was transitioning from lobbying to strategic advisory um what's the difference well as I understand it when you can probably answer it better than me in your background but no difference that I can see right exactly so one you register for the other you don't right right and I think that there are some legal you know uh limits around registering when your father's the vice president so I think that was what they ran into but you can and you don't there's certain again I'm not an expert on it I know that that was I think in Washington you can't lobby but you can strategically advise right exactly there you go strategically advisory good good so what was the business that you imagined him helping you with um you know the The Core Business what what we really hope for was raise introductions to Capital to raise more Capital right and deal flow so the things that that make us a private Equity Funds successful whether it's in real estate or asset back Securities or you know just going out and looking for operating assets it's it's you know Finding unique deals um and then finding the capital to actually invest in those deals and make them worth more money exactly that's the but you got to have the dough right you got to have the dough so I think the the in the back of our minds the the initial strategic was okay we can expand our Network exponentially Hunter and his strategic team know you know tons of folks and it's a whole new world of you know of of high net worth individuals family offices you know institutional Pension funds which was a huge one that we thought that we could crack that never materialized um and yes and so so that was that was the The Genesis but the on on paper what you know what what we looked at was like okay why are you kind of teaming up this there's no investment in it it was a you know Rosemont Seneca Partners was kind of a dovetail concept it's not like we didn't fund it nor did they fund it we just said they had their strategic advisory business we had our private Equity business let's combine forces expand our Network and maybe get some help or maybe when we talk to a strategic asset that's uh you know selling what I with a company that sold body armor for instance maybe we could get a military contract because someone in DC knew the Pentagon people I mean it's just simple kind of connecting the dots it is but if I can just and this is not a criticism of you because I did I lived there I didn't see this either but if you're looking for money Washington logically would be the last place you would go right we go to New York or maybe Los Angeles or maybe Dubai or Milan or places where people do business Washington is not about business it's about governance right it's kind of weird isn't it and maybe a sign of deeper corruption that Washington is like the place you go to raise money yeah I well I think you know where we were in this the you know in kind of the you know in the in the in the world of project we're very small private Equity right at the end of the day so the network that you're going to is more family office High net worth individuals and then maybe you get a breakthrough with a pension fund so I think the fundraising elements of of linking up with rose with with Seneca Partners was really that but we we took advantage of all you know the kind of strategic advisory work and the network that they had to to promote to the assets to promote to the other you know to people that were raising money from say oh listen we have a DC office we know how to operate this is not related to you you were not able to get pension money right no no but do you believe having operated in this world Pension funds are some of the biggest investors and absolutely they are the institutional investors exactly do you think that political leverage allows people to get investments from Pension funds I mean clearly in the world in the world yes yeah absolutely unfortunately we were United but no you weren't able to but like the idea that a pension fund would make an investment decision based on political calculations is like the definition of corruption isn't it yeah I I think that I think there's an entire world and business that's been focused on trying to create those lines of demarcation I mean it's it's one of the biggest I mean all the the pension managers I mean it's a whole world to so it's a bigger discussion but yes obviously that's there's uh there that would be the ultimate form of corruption so just to sum up what I think we're hearing so far is that you're on a pretty conventional business track correct you're working for a big bank at first and then you decide to move into this burgeoning private Equity world right which really was exploding at the time um and then at some point having gotten the business off the ground and it's succeeding you're like you look to Washington for opportunities there right and you run to 100 bideners set up with Hunter Biden right I'm set up with Hunter Biden and again you know at that time it seemed like uh you know it was hindsight's 2020 but it seemed like a it seemed like an opportunity to just broaden our Network brought in our um you know competitive advantage on the deal Side by having this you know access or regulatory understanding of DC is how we properly say it and maybe expanding our you know and getting lucky with a pension fund introduction or another you know large family you know uh maybe there's a political donor that's a billion dollar family office on the west coast that Hunter has a relationship with so I thought that that would be that was that was that was enough reason to kind of not invest in a new company but just you know flirt with a joint venture at the end so um and you're in your early 30s at this point yeah um you wind up though with this deal most famously with burisma barisma yes how did that come about so the Barista deal came about initially the CEO zilchefski and uh Vadim I'm going to abuse the name I have it here I've got it right here you say it first and then I can't I gotta put my glasses um yeah yeah so Vadim and Nikolai come through they're working with a they're or they're in the network again you're always expanding your network and um in raising capital and private equity and work with this group try Global Group which um famously also worked with uh mayor Giuliani yes with another one of the clients which we found out later but it was kind of interesting they had had on their fundraising list had uh Nikolai and Vadim who were the the CEO and the CEO owner and corporate secretary Barista and they'd come through New York pazharski yeah there we go we'll just use the team I think it's 15. um so so they come through New York I was actually on a business trip in Asia um and they're taken through and and you know the tread Global Group says we're working on you know these things one of the funds that we're marketing is Rosemont real estate acquisition fund one Reef um and they show it to them and that's probably you know I'll probably get the dates wrong but that's maybe in the in the early you know the 2012 Range okay so that's the first context we've got an we've got a placement agent working on Rosemont they're at they're they're on commission business with Rosemont real estate acquisition fund they meet Vadim and barism I don't know if they've known each other before but there are these there's this old you know a mini garc as we call it and then a mini Garcon and Vadim who's the corporate secretary they come through they pitch you know they give them the deck I don't know if they spent any time on it the deck being the marketing presentation for Reef um and you know nothing happens they don't come in as an investor but but they try Global was successful in identifying some investors for us not uh Barista um cut to 2014 and we are I'm in the midst of a trip to Europe and uh we're doing a strategic deal with large Bank there and I get there you know late February early March and it happens to be the day that that uh that Putin um invaded Crimea a peaceful invasion of incredibly as they say and so our deal falls through because there's all these these you know basically it's like this huge Paradigm Shift obviously after my Dawn yes and um you know everything changed in Europe and became this you know this there's this new inflection point of of Ukraine and that really started there on those days so needless to say our strategic deal with bank falls through for Roosevelt real real estate acquisition funds so we're quickly pivoting because in this in this at the same time we're raising for Rosemont real estate acquisition fund too so it happened to be um I happen to be at a meeting and and Trey Global says well you couldn't do are you still trying to raise Capital so would you like to meet with with uh with Nicolas to pitch your wares I bring the deck to him um we go through the you know we go through the presentation and he says you know interestingly enough he knows you know obviously he's calculating he had made some moves earlier which I'll tell you about um it you know thinking about Ukraine in the former position that he had so he pitched them back he kind of looks through it and you know I remembered he had some like crazy watch with like a you know it was like Ulysses started with like an oil like uh thing that was ticking like the second hand was like like one of those oil wells like cranking like this little little I know is natural gas rig um but so it was hard to decipher but anyway it was quite a quite an impression um and I yeah so I so they he again you know for the second time kind of ignored the real estate pitch and mentioned in the meeting he didn't he was very polite um but he was obviously not interested in that um but you know mentioned he said you know I have President uh kwazniewski of Poland has has joined my board a couple months ago and do you mind if he gives you a call that was kind of like our departure and I said yeah wonderful you know please uh follow up and you know write 100 million dollar check into Roosevelt real estate too so that never we never had another question about that um and I you know the next day maybe 48 hours later uh koznivski and Vadim who's the corporate sector who's not at the first meeting but he was in New York you know a couple years back calls me says you want to come to Warsaw I want to you know tell you about barisma and I kind of had a hint but I didn't have a pure picture this is the president of Poland it was the president of Poland yeah yeah so it was again it was you know so you're just you happen to be over there trying to raise money for Real Estate fund exactly I was I was there for for a big strategic closing that got that got completely blown up by world events exactly by world events so you're over there to raise money for your real estate fund correct from the guy from bereavement because he's just a rich guy looking to diversify they make a ton of money from selling natural gas and they want to invest it right he's not interested in your pitch and he says by the way since you're here I'd like you to talk to the president of Poland yes who then calls you yes yes it was coordinated by Vadim but yes eventually we somehow got you know connected on WhatsApp and yes calls me invites me to Paul and I was on a plane I was on a lot flight from or whatever that Airline what the airlines called uh I think it's a lot um from JFK within a couple days and I flew directly to Warsaw for 36 hours sat down with kwazniewski and he said listen we've got a great opportunity energy Independence for Ukraine uh this company barisma I joined the board um there's a you know we've looked at your profile I know you know you've got Rosemont you can raise and and the the idea was to raise outside capital for Barista so they were like come join the board it's very high paying opportunity um wasn't you know we weren't we didn't talk details on that in that particular meeting but he's like trust me and there's there's a chance to build an equity position in this business and this could be you know the next Exxon of Ukraine or whatever I think there's there's some some Discovery emails that talk about that yeah so well why wouldn't it I mean it was a real company exactly real company incredible management team you know new age equipment uh but why you why me because I was I was a bereaver you were a True Believer huh I wasn't no why me it was no it's just interesting because you I mean you're raising money for a real estate fund but then the guy from the natural gas company says talk to the president of Poland about joining the board of our Natural Gas Company they you know was Hunter Biden mentioned at all Hunter Biden was not mentioned though I mean I can't deny that they did some research about Rosemont Seneca Partners but because it just seems like it was not mentioned it was not mentioned to me it's a little I mean you sound like a very capable business operator um but not someone who specializes in the in the energy sector no I've had I've had a diverse portfolio right well now now you know a lot about technology yeah but then right agreed agreed I had one energy investment that we had we had made in Texas but that's true I was not certainly not by any stretch of the imagination expert in you know Excavating natural gas right but the president of Poland just asked you the part I mean by the way lots of weird things happen in life but I just kind of suspect that maybe they were this was all about getting Hunter Biden involved you know I I actually I do I think that they saw an opportunity to raise cat I think that they thought that I was close enough to political powers that that I don't think that was their initial intention to be completely honest I don't think they were like I was a Mark that they identified and then found Hunter I think it was a little bit more natural than that and at the end of the day you know similar to kind of what happened in my fate that you know be careful what you wish for yeah so how did he get involved so was it so it was as you as you go you know go on with the progression of the story so I he's obviously a partner we're always looking to you know incent each other and include each other in in in Opportunity you know in each of our opportunities and what happened was I came back I joined the board or I started the process of joining the board I did join the board I think I was on the board in in March of that year of 2014 was probably my first first month there and then I came back and hot and Hunter was was of counsel um and so what I did is I brought I brought uh uh him on board you know as counsel to legally represent the company and help them and you know basically uh um have a firm in DC that would look out for their best interests or you know kind of their you know any kind of geopolitical I'm sorry I'm calling on just this one thing okay so this is a city filled with law firms yes where every but hunter was my partner I know I don't just saying like this is a city where the number one job for a college-educated Caucasian man is lawyer at a firm right exactly right and a lot of those firms deal with you know foreign transactions in business and whatever Hunter Biden doesn't have actually like a meaningful history as a as a practicing attorney no no he's always he's been in the kind of lobbying world so I mean that's an influence play right there yeah well yeah I think well also I think the firm that he's of council was was prominent and had a you know had a large business in lobbying so I think right you know I think uh it made sense and it was also incenting a business partner of ours and it was our business partner of mine I think it was yeah you know it it was it made all the logic in the world and I think if it stayed like that it would have been you know a little history would have been very different history would have been so how did he wind up on the board of barisma so what happened was we quickly developed we brought it there was a team that from Brisbane that came into DC did some meetings um you know there was a kind of a lead practitioner on the law side that was brought in to be like the you know Hunter was a relationship manager relationship manager and then there was like a lead for what things that needed to be done we needed to lost the relationship manage that is like a business card title that well it's it's generally like of council at these law firms it's to make introductions yeah of course I should have gone to law school aspire to be there no it's too big if you can get it yeah anyway so no this is a natural progression so we hire and then so you know a month or two goes by we're at an economic conference in Italy Lake Como at the which was nice um or if I can say as your friend Vadim calls it in a letter I want to ask about in a minute that we got is May of 2014 following our talks during the visit to the Como Lake exactly like yeah Lake Como absolutely it was it was a gorgeous gorgeous weather and it was May of 2014. um and so you know that trip in DC to Vadim had been on that trip I figured that there's other Executives there um meeting at the law firm in the conference center or a large conference room and got a lot done and you know seemed to be off to a good start uh they visited us Vadim and Nikolai visited us at uh the village day at this economic conference um and they struck and Hunter uh you know was was of you know the relationship manager at the time of council and they you know kind of struck up a conversation and quasniewsky um was not there but on WhatsApp and kind of in the conversation and I think you know similar to what as opposed to like me being a mark and an orchestrated effort to get Hunter on board I think they all of a sudden saw you know the what you know what I what I think what the relationship that I brought yes by doing this and thought wait we can go a step further we got the president of Poland we've got this you know a couple Finance guys on the board we've got a couple of uh ukrainians and cypriots for regulatory reasons in those you know in those domiciles and if and we can get the son of the vice president on the board and you know they saw that opportunity and they made the offer and um I think at the media in Lake Como at the meeting in La Asia I was not I was not at that meeting but it was a meeting that was done in a sidebar that and the idea came back and I think a month later it was so what's so interesting so here's this letter that I referred to as the Como Lake and it's May 12 2014 8 29 a.m and this is from Vadim pazharsky to you and Hunter and he goes on and it's kind of complicated uh about what he's talking about corruption in Ukraine but he gets here he says we urgently need urgently need your advice on how you could use your influence to convey a message signal Etc to stop what we consider to be politically motivated actions Etc and that's from vadims right they they figured it out right away absolutely yes the the the term signal in every other kind of Market or theater or whatever you want to describe it's like a pretty um it's a well-used term so signal like like the U.S doesn't use it but it's a very common term to send signals between government and business because government can always shut you down it's almost like the you know the Shakedown kind of it's I try to equate equated something but you always want to be sending positive signals from that regulatory body I.E the government to the business that you're not going to be shut down right and so I think they're using in in you know common term to them and sending back here to us and say you know like I hope we're protected kind of thing that's that's the the term signal well you just flat out says it we urgently need your device on how you can use your influence right right so um and that's all kind of again just for context it's pretty conventional yeah I mean I think that's what lobbying firms are for yes but then comes the question of General shokan the prosecutor right tell us that's that seems to me that's when it gets heavy right okay so what was that so shoken was the that he and I'm gonna get the dates wrong but shoken was the uh he was the prosecutor the head prosecutor in Ukraine um and he was taking a close look at Marie so maybe not so different from an attorney general right right and and uh but he was taking but much more case active I think right attorney general's more like a manager of right people that handle cases and they have their independence this guy's the law he's like the law yeah so the buck stops with him hence the signals are more important in countries outside the United States uh so Shogun is taking a close look at uh a close look at barisma um there were allegations that some of the um you know some of the the deposits or some of the some of the reserves were not you know authentically got you know authentically acquired or whatever it may be yeah so those were like the I think that was the Genesis of the uh the complaints and there was always there were always you know being in Ukraine and being in that part of Worlds there was always kind of challenges that they were facing you know they're they're from from not being able to get a visa to money being tied up in London and this was just another you know in a series of um of issues that that law firms and and strategic advisory firms were hired for to you know to handle these kind of things right yeah so um the shoken the shoken case was he was taking a look at barisma and there was a big Push by European leaders the Atlanta Council et cetera et cetera um to to fire shoken because he was corrupt like it's it's hard to kind of decipher who's you know it's all sidebar like why would the Atlantic Council be getting involved yeah I mean I think I think I don't know I don't know on the shoken piece I mean again I mean this is the lead prosecutor in Ukraine right so if Ukraine is actually a country with sovereignty and not just a colony of say the neocons in the United States like why wouldn't they just let Ukraine deal with their own like why would why would Western Powers even get involved in who the chief prosecutor in Ukraine is I that's a question that I don't know I couldn't control myself so but within within barisma right this shokin was considered a threat to your business shulkin was considered because Shogun was considered a threat to the business I think any anyone in again you got to get the signals to the government I think anyone in government was always a threat and always trying to shake down these businesses that were highly successful and and enriching the the owners and the the staff and the board and whatever um and so at the end of the day Shogun was taking a look and I and again if I I wasn't involved in in shoken or any of this but he was a threat he ended up seizing assets of of uh Nikolai house some cars a couple properties and and um Nikolai actually never went back to Ukraine after shokun seized all of his assets um and the case was I mean and obviously this is all out there the case was that shoken there was all this pressure to fire shoken from this you know the larger community and then he was fired and then somehow barismo was let off the hook I mean that's that's what the story was um and Joe Biden of course was the driving force behind his firing yeah he was he was he was involved in that there's obviously been involved I mean Biden bragged at Council on Foreign Relations you know they had a billion dollars coming from IMF and I said if you don't fire this man you're not getting a billion dollars right right um but it's it's you know I think on this one it's it's it certainly wasn't made clear to us at the board level you know that that was a that there was any any uh um that that was a favor to be done the narrative I don't know the narrative and I don't want to I you know I don't want to lead anyone down that kind of path that that's what that's what happened because I don't know Joe Biden knew that his son was on the board of this company that was being hassled by the prosecutor who's firing he was calling for right yeah um and this took place three years after he sent you a letter saying thanks for all the work you're doing with Hunter so like clearly he would know this would benefit the family right I don't and I don't want to get it but the narrative was that that shocking was already taken care of that was the popular narrative that's the only thing that I did he was already on his way out exactly that was the narrative that was fed to the board okay so you were told when choking got fired that like it had nothing to do with no we were told that that was bad and we don't want a new prosecutor Shogun was taken care of so it's very I mean this is not like you know Checkers multiple Dimensions here you know so so Apostles doesn't connect four no exactly it's like no I think it's I think in this particular case it's pretty it's pretty high stakes and pretty sophisticated so the narrative that I was told was that that's just you know I've said it under oath and I'll say it again that was the narrative that was the narrative um did you ever you wear do you acknowledge that Hunter spoke to his dad about burisma do I have knowledge yes do you know that Hunter spoke to his dad about policeman did you ever see them talk about it hear them talk about it was I don't know I don't have knowledge of that though I'd assume it you would assume it right I would assume in in a general sense of travel and that kind of thing but but on you know like I've I you know I've told a lot of people um in the past there was there was not business content conversations it was the the idea of signals and influence the prize is enough in in speaking or hearing or knowing that you have that proximity to power no one is so unsophisticated that's been in politics for 50 years right that Hunter is going to talk about you know the last quarter's uh you know how many billion cubic meters of gas we pumped out of there right so it's just I think a lot of the narrative gets caught up on you know you know over speculation of these conspiracy theories that are just not true I think that's not the way it actually it just doesn't work like that so it's enough to be sitting in a meal at Lake Como with your new Ukrainian friends and why your dad happens to call let's put him on speaker that would be that that's I think that's that's that's that's that's enough that's the most you know the second most powerful man in the world it's just how how the world works so there's been a lot of effort on the part of Republicans to prove money transfers from Hunter to Joe right um and then there's the other brother Jimmy who I'm going to ask about in a minute um but and and so far there there's EV there's there are hints of it but they're we haven't seen the direct transfer but did you ever wonder when you were in the Biden orbit like how do they live so well I mean the Biden's Hunter grew up at a huge house in Wilmington the family had this very expensive beach house and like how do you do that on a politician's salary we don't pay our politicians very much well I think a hunter had a successful lobbying and advisory business sure but these are his dad's houses right like how does that how does that did you ever wonder like how do you do that well they you know that question I really only was under the kind of tenure at the Naval Observatory I knew the government was bad we were paying for it yeah no of course but like they had these other houses yeah but I I never I I the only I was at Bo's house I was at Hunter's house um but those those were the houses so it was that was that was that was not a uh that was not something I often thought about put it that way okay it's just interesting because you're coming from a non-political world along middle class worlds and you wind up and you know run all these High Flyers right I mean some of them but don't have business jobs they have political jobs but they're living really really well yeah I thought the cost of living was lower in one I don't it is it is pretty remarkable it's pretty beautiful right Suburban place to live and uh yeah I mean I think the again the money that's thrown around DC is is significant I mean as far as lobbying contracts and legal contracts and all of the you know the bills that go out and I mean it's there there's money flow I mean it certainly is but it sticks to the people who live there like the money's supposed to go out to the whole continent right yeah that's a bigger discussion doesn't it interesting um so when choke when Biden called for choking to be fired right very publicly and then got it done like bam right what did you think again the narrative this has been they've tried to beat this into my head a million times because because it does work on paper um as far as the you know the logical steps but we were told that shoken had already been taken care you know that he was under control and then this is going to be a whole big problem for Barista now yeah it's a huge problem because I mean I don't know what that's the guy was what it was It was kind of pounded into our heads obviously as I look back in the rear view it's it was uh it doesn't it doesn't paper as well and but it but it you know it looks like there was some some I'm asking you because you said at the outset that well first of all that you liked Hunter absolutely who was a very likely I can attest personally a very likable guy absolutely and um and but that you thought it was you know useful he knows his way around Washington his dad's vice president United States all stuff it's all good but that there was The Icarus problem right that like if you use those contacts too much maybe it hurts you maybe that's burned by it did you feel that when shokun got fired like ooh maybe this is a little bit no a little close to the Sun here no on that on that one I just was kind of listen I was I was I was uh I was I was I was believing the narrative because we were in where I felt the Icarus was when he got right when he announced we were in Doha uh when one is as well as as one is running around with some of the royal family at another conference and uh um you know part of the benefits of actually doing the Rosemont Seneca partnership that you know you're getting access in these meetings anyway long story short we're in Doha and they release some picture on the website that Hunter had joined the board and that was kind of my that was like the Tipping Point where Icarus had arrived a little too close yeah and the rest you know and the rest of my story has you know been a uh slowed downward yeah the trajectory changed at that point like this exactly that was really that was The Icarus moment um when I saw that release and I saw the basement that had released that barisma released it didn't tell us and [Music] um and it was like the most Googled news story like in the world for 18 hours and yeah I was like this is going to be a different well because to a civilian you're thinking okay huge super lucrative Eastern Europe right natural gas incredible sort of semi-employed kind of lawyer lobbyist from DC like what is he doing on their board like it just seemed right yeah yeah yeah and then that really at the time I was not I didn't have you know we didn't calculate the risk appropriately and the rest was the rest is history so whether or not Hunter convinced his dad to come out against shokan and there's debate right it was very clear that the barisma guys were hoping to leverage Hunter's relationship with the vice president his father Yes at one point they told Hunter to quote call his dad yeah I think I mean I think referencing the email that you you put earlier there was constant pressure to uh to send signals um to Leverage all of his ins you know his dad included but the Biden brand all of the you know the the the DC Insider and relationships to help barisma survive I think that's the you know at the end of the day what we're talking about I mean that was that was the idea what he brought that's that it was it was the that ability to help on the geopolitical stage keep them out of trouble keep them out of Investigations unfreeze assets unsuccessfully you know unfreeze visas and uh you know the first challenge which was like a there was a 23 million pound account that was released to barisma because of alleged non-cooperation by the prosecutor I know if shoken or the guy before that but that was successful and I think did Hunter help with that I the the perception of him being on the board probably uh provided a Halo that that helped with that but no active you know there's no active but they were not Consulting him on like pipeline construction or Wellhead design no no no no no it was it was you know hiring lobbyists and law firms to to uh and and various like ngos to you know help uh clear the path from you know regulatory uh roadblocks at the end of the day when they asked him to call his dad did he um he I was not privy to the conversation directly but they've asked you know that was you know Vadim met with his dad at the dinner at dinner at Cafe Milano a famous dinner Cafe Milano um so you know I I did not listen to a particular call where they spoke but I know that the request was made by Vadim a lot what did Vadim say to the vice president at that dinner at Cafe Milano a dinner was you know politics I think there was a world food program element weather nothing specific to barismo but the idea was by having that relationship and by saying I met with the Vice President in Washington that gives him a squat yeah I think at the end of the that that's the you know the the prize or the you know being able to have whether it's on you know speakerphone or in person to to have you know that person in direct contact whether you're talking about you know weather or you know you know politics or what have you that that's the important part I don't think you know there's no relevance in in asking you know the vice president about you know the the gas you know right revenues or anything it's never it's enough it's it and the prize is is that that contact and that access to power how what what was the payment like from barisma like whatever I mean yeah famously made it was 83 000. it was 80 yeah there was it was taken into a company it was 283 like the contracts were around board seats um and then the the kind of scope of work was him on the governance side as we've talked about um and I was in you know first to raise Capital but then after the Doha you know Google situation where they announced him on the board you know raising outside Capital was out um so it became an international expansion so the payment was uh two million dollars a year to one of our LLCs there were other business activities that happened in that we had to pay some of the cap intro guys um that introduced us initially through the Rosemont Realty so he you know the the payments were and I think it's you know it's incredibly well documented initially it was about six seven hundred thousand dollars a year it it built to about a million and then it was I think less for the the less the rest of his tenure the second his father left the vp's office and went down I think that was I think that happened you think that I think that I was I was long out of it by then but I think so what have I been told that what about gifts and this is a part of the world where people give gifts right and those gifts are a kind of non-taxable payment You could argue You could argue You could argue were there gifts uh there were there was yeah there were some birth birthday gifts a watch watch a watch Timex kind of Watcher no what's the watch I believe it was uh a hue bolt a hue bolt I'm not actually sure I shouldn't even say that but I don't know but I know there's a birthday gift I've also been refreshed in my memory through the series of documents that have been put up yeah through your testimony to the Congress yeah exactly um so a watch like that would cost like ballpark you know 50 to 100 000 yeah so real gift a real gift meaningful so you're working in Ukraine and just from based on our off-camera conversations we're actually interested in the business absolutely and um it's kind of an interesting business actually Powers the world so right it Powers the world a meaningful business yep um in your time in Ukraine did you notice a lot of Americans running around from Washington exerting influence over there they're they're you know what I think obviously it's a it's an important part of the world I think for different factions of uh you know different different opposing East-West types of views so yes there were a lot of Americans lobbying usaid uh you know State Department officials there were a lot of Americans because the picture you paint does it doesn't sound like a sovereign country it really does seem like a protectorate or something and the protector it might be might be an overstep but yes there is a lot of interest in Ukraine and who controls Ukraine um and that's a you know it's a geopolitical conversation did you ever see Jordan England there uh I you know I we we definitely I did I never saw her in person but she was definitely that I think that was her in her scope in her theater did she have a lot of influence in Ukraine she did yeah she did she was uh it was it was constantly trying to Curry favor with her she was uh she was she was one that that you know you wanted on your good side as I remember I don't remember the specifics whether it was you know there were some there were some issues with some one of the ambassadors mentioned barisa as at Barista as corrupt at some point and that was a big thing and there was like a big effort to try and redact that I think there was some law being done to her or with her or uh no obviously barisma I think Nikolai who you know came to New York and ate a cat's Deli back in 2012 looking at the real estate pitch ended up in Cyprus I think he's still still there so no no nothing nothing ever worked with that though I do believe that you know at the end of the day barisma wouldn't have stayed in business so long uh you know if uh you know if if Hunter was not on the board so they got they got some new money back I think they got some years why did you leave uh I left uh in something completely unrelated uh okay you got in trouble with another company correct exactly um and so you got off the board but hunter stayed on Hunter stayed on yeah how long did you remain in business with him um after we had the issue with with that other company I was It was a I was no longer in business with him with him I was friendly we were we were you know retained a friendship for a couple years and then uh and then there was it was it's complicated and can't talk about it because it's not in one case but there was a there was a there was a um uh a reversal of a conviction and then there was a uh you know subsequently that the reversal of commission was re-reversed and after the reversal we kind of never spoke again for legal reasons or was there enemy it was just no no absolutely no there there's uh you know again looking back at the body of work it was you know a very big strategic mistake for me to you know be involved with him and and so it was my fault because quite frankly I I was pitching Barista Roosevelt Realty and that ended up you know that the Genesis that was me but obviously the trajectory of my life would have been far different um and arguably far better if I've never met him and you didn't make that much money from marisma no I was I think it was I mean relative to the world yes it was a lot of money relative to my middle class upbringing it was a ton of money um but it wasn't life-changing money and it was quickly exhausted on legal bills yeah um so how if you what's interesting in this conversation is you're very sympathetic to Hunter Biden the person like you like him you should say you like him absolutely children I mean I've been to the lacrosse games they're yeah it's a good family and and they you know they're uh you know they've got a great relationship Father and Son speak every day I witnessed that for 10 years show and you're not I mean you work for John Kerry for presidents right you're obviously not right it's a volunteer but yeah but you're not a partisan actor I think it's fair to say you're not grinding the political acts absolutely not uh here how have you been treated by Demi you obviously are a Democrat or we're a Democrat most of your life anyway well I I that was never registered Democrat I was a registered independent but just for the record but um I uh have been treated but I you know the treatment seems to be the the the treatment of just getting out ahead of this and speaking the truth and just you know retelling my story um that a lot of people seem to be interested a lot of the negativity seems to come anonymously um you know obviously there's murmurs of of you know different folks saying different things but you know the threats and stuff like that seem to come from whether they're AI Bots or you know people in a basement in Cleveland not to pick on Cleveland but it might be I don't know I don't know uh you know I don't I I can't kind of pinpoint it but it is definitely a uh a bit of a scary time um the reaction to what you've said in public to what you said to the committee on the hill um and that was to what you're you've been telling us in this interview is that like there's no corruption here at all this is totally normal Joe Biden had no role whatsoever in uh in his son's business or knowledge of it right how would I mean that seems yeah I think that yeah that's that's categorically false I think the what what the he was aware of Hunter's business he met with Hunter's business partners he I mean you found a letter that that illustrates that he knew me and he's thanking you he's thanking you for his effort so I think that was yeah a bigger effort yeah yeah I think that a that's a um you know that's that's not factually right well you know but at the at an insane breath there's no you know there's no I don't think Joe Budden's looked at a balance sheet or a you know uh a cap table or what have you or any Financial document probably ever um so they're doing pretty well for not looking at well that's yeah so who's Jimmy Biden his brother Jimmy Biden his brother um is that's Joe the president's brother um and he really picked up you know post my uh you know issues um and worked with him you know in businesses that business that he got into in China and Romania kind of after my tenure with the Rosemont Seneca Partners but he was I think he I he probably filled some void of you know companionship and you know business companionship um you know in the in the years after I was you know basically did you ever spend time with him not a lot I you know three or four times three or four times so he ran um there's not a lot written about him he ran a nightclub uh for a while in Wilmington I think that went under um but was it your sense that he had a high degree of business acumen um he was he was always willing he was always willing I have no real opinion about Jimmy quite frankly I I know he likes Diet Mountain Dew that's that's right yeah I'm a big with Diet Mountain Dew guy but um yeah I never did a business deal with him uh-huh uh I socially interacted with him in a very few occasions but did you think it's a little weird so here's here's honor Biden and here's the brother Jimmy where you could die at Mountain Dew like what is this exactly this Biden brand what is the business uh what is the you know as a whole I mean yeah what is the business it's a diverse portfolio of opportunity it's a diverse portfolio of opportunity yes Hunter and Jimmy well obviously I mean you've seen the you know again I keep referring to the the rear view mirror I mean the portfolio has you know exhausted and yeah Hunter's on to better things so yeah um he's an artist he is an artist yes and I'm not gonna offer any reviews of his uh his work but I just have to ask like in the many years that you said in the 10 years you spent with him did he evidence any interest in painting uh no no not particularly but he was he was very you know he was a very well read um uh student of History so he was far more interested in you know uh or I wouldn't say artistic Ventures but certainly not painting that was a surprise it was a surprise yeah it was a surprise what is that I mean I think that after looking at the portfolio of our experiences I might do the same thing because I mean you know it's just I mean it's a that's a long haul for sure covered with tragedy and yes you know addiction and then going through all that I think you just have to have a reset that makes sense to me getting 500 000 for your paintings like six months after you start painting seems a little weird [Laughter] I mean your life has also taken you know ups and downs and right twists and turns you didn't expect um if you decided like in six months to start painting do you think that you could get 500 Grand a painting uh I know it depends upon how this show goes I think that's uh one of the opportunities open to you in your diverse portfolio that's really why I'm here to pitch your paintings exactly so starting a lot since the laptop came out um what'd you think of that by the way the laptop yeah were you shocked by that that was uh that was a that was not great yeah that was a obviously I'm not great this is not great great um yeah that was that was a real bummer I guess yeah the not great what did I think about it I mean it was absolutely it was an absolute shock that's perpetuated this you know kind of nightmare that I've been living for the last did he call you when that came out when the lap no yeah no he did not oh no because you're obviously on it no extensively yes not visually but right right got a single naked picture um yeah all over it and it's just let you know led to you know just incessant and never-ending media fodder that brings me back in and uh last question a lot has been written about his drug and alcohol problems and the laptop is a you know is a is a visual record of those right um how did they affect your relationship with him well you know was uh he was for the initial part of our you know the tenure of our relationship and Business Partnership it was um he was he was sober so there was no uh there wasn't a part of our uh you know it wasn't part of our relationship and then I think there's some you know some tragedy that that fell upon him with his brother and um you know coming from an early pass to tragedy uh you know things got hard mentally um and he slipped back in and obviously that created you know some some chaos but that that was you know created less effective kind of business decisions now barismo has already started so that that that that moment that Tipping Point had already happened at the end of the day where where the downhill spiral Spiral started and I think a lot of those pressures in the media also contributed to it um but you're Tethered to this guy in business right and then he starts to fall apart right and it was not yes it was not uh you know he was made he made a lot of efforts to you know to repair and go to rehab and get better and then I you know again through another business that we're involved in was was kind of taken out and then so I didn't really I didn't go through the the actual kind of full downward spiral and then rebirth it only said you were taken out do you think you were taken out no I I just I can't comment on that huh it's an ongoing case probably not out of the realm of possibility one suspects uh Devin Archer thank you for spending all this time thank you so much appreciate it really appreciate it

Channel: TheDC Shorts

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Id: eUyh5HJb4k8

Length: 63min 29sec (3809 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 04 2023