>> WITHIN HOURS OF HIS ARRAIGNMENT IN MIAMI ON TUESDAY, DONALD TRUMP WAS BACK AT HIS BEDMINSTER PROPERTY FOR A FUND-RAISER, WHERE THE PERPETUALLY AGGRIEVED, TWICE IMPEACHED, AND TWICE INDICTED FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD HIS CUSTOMARY CLOAK OF VICTIMHOOD. WHILE TRUMP'S TONE WAS THE SAME THE CONTENT WAS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, AND A LOT MORE DANGEROUS. >> THEY WANT TO TAKE AWAY MY FREEDOM, BECAUSE I WILL NEVER LET THEM TAKE AWAY YOUR FREEDOM. . >> THEY WANT TO SILENCE ME BECAUSE I WILL NEVER LET THEM SILENCE YOU. THEY WANT YOU SILENT. AND I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN SAVE THIS NATION, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT COMING AFTER ME, THEY'RE COMING AFTER YOU. I JUST HAPPENED TO BE STANDING IN THEIR WAY. AND I WILL NEVER BE MOVED. >> JOINING ME NOW, RUTH BEN-GHIAT, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY HISTORY PROFESSOR, AUTHOR OF STRONGMEN, MUSSOLINI TO THE PRESIDENT. RUTH, AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING TO THE SHOW. JUST HERE, I'VE READ THE WORDS IN THE NEWSPAPER, BUT TO HEAR HIM SAY THAT IS RATHER CHILLING. WHAT STOOD OUT TO ME IS HIS CONFLATION, OF HIS LEGAL WOES, WITH GRIEVANCES OF PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW HIM. THIS IS CLASSIC AUTHORITARIANISM, ISN'T IT? >> YES. YOU HAVE STATED IT VERY NICELY. THE CONFLATION OF HIS PERSONAL LEGAL TROUBLES WITH THE NATION. WHAT HE'S DOING NOW IS HE'S A CULT LEADER, JONATHAN, I THINK YOU KNOW I FEEL HE'S A CULT LEADER. NOT A CONVENTIONAL POLITICIAN. HE HAS PEOPLE, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO ASSAULT THE CAPITOL TO SAVE HIM. BUT THAT WAS SOMETIME AGO. SO HE HAS GOT TO KEEP THOSE BONDS, REFRESHED. HOW DO YOU DO? THAT BECAUSE HE'S IN SUCH TROUBLE, HE FEARS PEOPLE WILL TURN AWAY FROM HIM. SO HE'S MAKING THEM VICTIMS AS WELL. THEY'RE NOT COMING AFTER ME, THEY'RE COMING REALLY, AFTER YOU. THIS IS QUITE BRILLIANT AS A DEMAGOGUE TACTIC. AND OF COURSE IT'S EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, I DO SEE IT AS INCITEMENT LANGUAGE HE WANTS THEM TO BE SO WORRIED ABOUT THEIR FATE, THAT I DON'T KNOW, WHAT HE'LL HAVE ANOTHER COUP,, BUT THAT'S WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO, HE'S TRYING TO KEEP THEM ON THE EDGE, AND FEEL LIKE THEY'LL LOSE EVERYTHING IF THEY DON'T SOMEHOW BRING HIM BACK TO POWER. >> EACH TIME DONALD TRUMP GETS INDICTED. HIS POLL NUMBERS GO UP. THERE WAS A POLL THAT WAS RELEASED YESTERDAY BY MERIT THAT HIS STANDING ONE UP BY EIGHT POINTS. AS YOU SEE ON THE PAGE THERE, THERE'S A NEW POLL WHILE THE INDICTMENT WAS BE RELEASED, AND UNSEALED, IT SHOWS TRUMP IS THE LEADING REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN THE PRIMARY RACE, BY 30 POINTS. YOU SEE IT THERE, 53%, YOU, YOU CALL HIM A CULT LEADER. BUT IS THERE AN EVEN STRONGER WORD FOR SOMEBODY WHO HAS SUCH EYE ON A MAJOR POLITICAL PARTY IN THIS COUNTRY? ARE ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE FOLLOWERS IN THIS CALL? FOR REAL. , >> WHEN I USED TO WORK, ALL I'M REALLY REFERRING TO AN AUTHORITARIAN LEADER CALLED, AND JONATHAN, I FEEL LIKE MY BOWL BOOK IS COMING TO LIFE. THE VICTIMHOOD IS COMPLEX, IT'S CRUCIAL MUSSOLINI USED IT, HITLER USED, IT ALL THE PEOPLE I STUDY USE IT. AND IT IS VERY COMPELLING, BECAUSE HE IS NOT ONLY A BRUTE NOT ONLY THE DEFENDER OF THE NATION, BUT HE IS VULNERABLE. HE'S UNDER DISTRESS, AND YOU GO YOU HEAR QUOTES FROM PEOPLE WHO ATTEND HIS RALLIES, THEY SAY HE HAS BEEN THROUGH SO MUCH, HE NEEDS US. THE STRONGMAN, IS BOTH THE BRUTE, BUT ALSO VULNERABLE. THIS COMBINATION, THIS DUALITY IS REALLY COMPELLING TO PEOPLE, PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND IT IS WORK FOR 100 YEARS TO KEEP PEOPLE TETHERED TO THE LEADER. >> IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU SAY THAT HE IS VULNERABLE, AND YET HE IS IN A CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN, WITH A BUNCH OF OTHER CANDIDATES WHO DON'T, AREN'T REALLY TAKING GLOVES OFF AND TRYING TO EXPLOIT THAT VULNERABILITY. PART OF THIS, WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE, IS THAT YOU KNOW. AND IT WAS YESTERDAY, THERE IS A NEW DEVELOPMENT IN THE RACE THERE PUBLICAN CANDIDATE, ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS, SHE WAS REBUKED BY THE RNC FOR NOT WANTING TO TAKE THE QUOTE, LOYALTY PLEDGE IN SUPPORT THE POTENTIAL REPUBLICAN NOMINEE WITH THE ADVISOR RICHARD WALTER SAYING, CANDIDATES WHO ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS TO THE PRESS SHOULD SERIOUSLY RECONSIDER THEIR PRIORITIES, AND WHETHER THEY SHOULD EVEN BE RUNNING. >> IS THERE ANY WAY TO STOP THIS AUTHORITARIANISM WHEN FOLKS WHO TRY TO EXPLOIT THOSE VULNERABILITIES ARE SMACKED BACKED BY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER? AND ARE IN POSITIONS OF POWER THEMSELVES? >> IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT IN PART BECAUSE WE HAVE A BIPARTISAN SYSTEM WHICH USED TO BE YOU KNOW PRAISED AS PART OF OUR STABILITY. NOW IT IS A HUGE STRUCTURAL PROBLEM. BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO PERHAPS WANT TO GET OUT OF THE TRUMP CULT DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO GO, WE TALKED ABOUT FOLLOWERS. BUT THIS IS A PARTY THAT HE DOMESTICATED WITH ASTONISHING SPEED, BECAUSE IT OTHER CASES IN HISTORY LIKE WEATHER MUSSOLINI WHO FOUNDED FASCISM, OR BARELY SCULLEY WHO JUST DIED, THEY CREATED THE PARTY. SO IT MADE SENSE THAT THEY WERE THE TOTAL MASTERS, BUT HERE, THIS IS A GRAND OLD PARTY, THAT TRUMP TOOK HOLD OF AND PUT UNDER A AUTHORITARIAN SUBMISSION. WHEN A PARTY IS THAT, THAT TETHERED TO THE LEADER IT IS VERY DIFFICULT UNLESS THAT LEADER GOES DOWN. THE ONLY THING THAT DID IN ITALY WAS THAT FAIR MUSKOGEE WAS CONVICTED AND BANNED FROM POLITICS FOR FIVE YEARS. PROSECUTION SENDS A MESSAGE THAT NO TRULY NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. AND THEN PARTISAN POLITICIANS HAVE THAT. >> LET ME GET YOU ON ONE MORE THING ROOF BECAUSE YESTERDAY, THE MAN WHO KILLED 11 WORSHIPPERS AND INJURED SEVEN OTHERS AT PITTSBURGH TREE OF LIFE SYNAGOGUE IN 2018 THE DEADLIEST ANTISEMITIC ATTACK IN U.S. HISTORY WAS FOUND GUILTY ON ALL 63 FELONY COUNTS, INCLUDING FEDERAL HATE CRIME CHARGES. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS SO CENTRAL TO THAT CASE WAS THE HATE THAT WAS ROILING WITHIN HIM. AND HOW THAT -- AT THE TIME, IN THE MIDDLE -- CAN YOU PLEASE TALK ABOUT >> YEAH, ATMOSPHERIC IS A GOOD WORD. WHAT STRAW MEN LIKE HIM, DO IS THEY COME IN, AND THEY ADDRESS THEMSELVES TO EVERY FORM OF EXTREMIST. THEY CREATE A BIG TENT, SO YOU HAVE RACES WHO HATE BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE. YOU HAVE ANTISEMITES, YOU HAVE NEO-NAZIS, ALL OF THESE PEOPLE FOUND A PLACE IN DONALD TRUMP'S MOVEMENT. AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT HE CALLED IT A MOVEMENT AT THE BEGINNING. BECAUSE THEY ARE EXTREMISTS, SUCH AS LONE WOLF ACTORS WHO DON'T LIKE PARTIES AND ESTABLISHMENTS. YOU HAVE ANTI GOVERNMENT EXTREMIST. THEY DON'T MAYBE LIKE PARTIES. THEY LIKE MOVEMENTS. THERE IS A REASON THAT HATE CRIMES OF ALL TYPES, ANTI BLACK, ANTI ASIAN, ANTISEMITIC, ALL SKYROCKETED DURING DONALD TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY. BECAUSE HE GAVE OUT THE MESSAGE THAT HE REWARDED LAWLESSNESS. HE APPRECIATED LAWLESSNESS. THAT WAS THE POINT OF HIM SAYING HE COULD STAND ON FIFTH AVENUE, AND SHOOT SOMEONE, AND
