Trump's former special counsel tells ABC News much of hush money trial rests 'on Cohen's word'

so ta Cobb is a former assistant us attorney for the District of Maryland who served on the Trump Administration legal team overseeing their response to the Muller investigation but he resigned after less than a year and has been an outspoken Trump critic ever since Ty joins me now Ty great to see you again as you know Trump he's had uh the former president has had trouble holding on to qualified lawyers we have watched that case by case but this time around team Trump seems to be pretty solid what do you think makes this Dynamic so different this time around or is it too early to even say that I I do think that the former president is in court with uh some good lawyers for a change I think that's a that's a very um uh important Dynamic here I think that they are you know capable they're a little bit hamstrung by some of Trump's own strategic choices his decision to deny you know the um sexual liaison with Stormy Daniels and and um Miss McDougall um you know put them in a little bit of a bind and I think we saw some of the contamination of that last week when Stormy Daniels was allowed to go into details that she probably shouldn't have been allowed to go into but was only allowed to go into in large part because he denied that it ever happened and that makes detail relevant uh but I do think his his current lawyers are good and I think they'll do an effective job with Michael Cohen well Trump is now bringing lawmakers and donors to court with them you've seen Senators JD Vance Rick Scott uh both coming with Trump on different days speaking on his behalf what's the strategy here Ty is this how he sort of avoids gag order violations uh a little bit it's also I think it just makes him feel good I think he was a little lonely you know his son Eric has been sort of the only uh cheerleader there on a regular basis I think it's he feels good about having other people there I can assure you there isn't a single juror uh that recognizes Tommy tuberville or JD Vance so I'm not sure how much they actually add but um I I know it makes the former president feel better that he has a has some fans in the gallery uh I think that's uh likely why they're there and I also think they're there for their own individual purposes to Buck up their political standing which they have made dependent on the president's support right and uh probably even Vine for the vice presidential position if indeed he becomes president JD Vance has definitely said he wouldn't yeah wouldn't turn that down let me ask you you and I both know that Trump and Cohen uh were so tight for so many years even before Trump became president I mean I had to go through Michael Cohen and ragraph for any interview request I had prior to him becoming president you were on the inside of Trump World when he was president what do you think really happened with Trump and Cohen and and why why did Trump want Cohen out of his inner circle after so many years of working together that's an excellent question I don't really have a specialized Insight necessarily into that I do know uh from my own experience uh you know I didn't I never met a single person in Trump World who had a uh kind thing to say about Michael Cohen I never met anybody who didn't think he was uh um smarmy and untrustworthy um so I think that heum probably heard from a lot of different voices that he needed to distance himself from that guy and ultimately he did um on the other hand as uh Jeremy pointed out uh just moments ago about the trial you know the issue for the prosecutors is they know that Coen you know has zero credibility as a human being but they're hoping that you know through the records the the sciously unprofessionally unethically taped um conversation that Cohen did with his own client uh and some of the emails and and telephone records that they can you know at least put him at the right place at the right time and establish that um there are certain facts that if they don't show that Cohen robbed the bank they at least show he was in the bank uh and they're hoping I think that will get him to the Finish Line because still much of this case will end up resting on Cohen's word and I think that's uh I think that's a challenge for the prosecution I don't think it'll be a a real high bar for this jury I think this jury will convict him I do think the appell at courts are going to have difficulty with that U as they will with the underlying theory of the case and its efforts to tie to some as yet un undetailed uh federal crime but um but I do think um a lot of this is Cohen's word and I think that's I think that's a dangerous uh um foundation for any case well I'm sure in your time as an attorney that you dealt with Witnesses who didn't have pristine reputations so how would you as a lawyer actually approach a witness like Michael Cohen who's essential to this case as you just pointed out but is so prone to self- sabotage yeah it's very difficult I think uh so far I'm not sure the prosecution has done a good enough job yet of creating some distance between their warm embrace of Cohen uh and the man himself I I think uh they've been a little um doting on him so far based on what I read I'm not in the courtroom as as Jeremy said but the way it reads is uh um you know they they don't seem to be um setting up the possibility that you know uh it's just his word and then coming over the top with but here's some corroboration uh it's they're just sort of letting him go on and on and set the stage with his narrative I think that's uh they're going to need to create a little more distance and show the jury that they too are skeptical a little bit of Cohen and only relying on circumstances where he actually can be correra but yes I mean I put on murderers I've put on drug dealers uh kidnappers uh um and you know in in criminal matters usually you end up having to rely on criminal Witnesses and Cohen certainly is that so you know Trump's temperament you know how he can get upset very quickly um of all the witnesses in this trial Cohen is probably the one who Trump can't stand the most um Cohen went from Problem Solver to problem creator for the former president do you think Cohen could be the one witness that just gets under his skin and and causes Trump to have an outburst because as you know Trump's been playing it pretty cool in that courtroom so I don't think so uh and but here's the reason which is Cohen's been saying some version uh and and not necessarily uh an identical version of these facts for three years now um if not longer so I think um you know Trump's heard it before he's a little bit inoculated to it he knows what's coming I do think Cohen has embellished a couple of times based on what I've read today on things that um um you know he had talked about before without adding certain facts for example the fact today that you know Trump certainly wasn't thinking about Melania well you know he doesn't know that I mean he's qualified to testify that Trump didn't mention Melania uh but he's not qualified to testify that Trump what what Trump was thinking and I was a little surprised that that wasn't more fiercely objected to but I Trump you know Cohen is getting some shots in I'm not sure that actually adds to his credibility but I do think Trump is as I said a little bit inoculated to this because he's heard it before uh he knew it was coming uh so it's not really a surprise and I think he is just going to grin and bear it interesting because just as we've been talking about this got a little color from the courtroom from one of my producers here that apparently Trump's eyes are closed and he's sort of clenching his face so something's going on that's getting him riled up right now um you know this is also a complicated trial because the falsification of documents is a crime yes but what is that you know what is the da have to prove to make it a felony is that it was you know and that it was done to cover things up cover up another crime it hasn't been really clear on what that crime uh allegedly is what do you think it is so you know I mean I'm I'm a little bit I'm as much in the dark as anybody else you know I think uh uh what they seem to be trying to prove is that uh it was tied to U um you know an attempt to cover up a a false campaign uh contribution or a an unlawful campaign contribution um but I do think that's one of the problems with this statute and certainly the way that this case which is a first of its kind and stands on its own uh case uh was constructed from the outset there's no real doubt that you know the in in my view that um that the payments were uh misrepresented on the books um yes they went to a lawyer yes they went there at legal fees but they technically really weren't legal fees obviously they were uh repayments of uh of the hush money and the related tax consequences so I think on those counts um lesser included counts of you know the falsification which are misdemeanors and you know really uh are associated with virtually no pin uh never would have been brought against anybody other than Trump you know there's no question that those those those counts have been proven you know in space but uh whether they can be tied to the uh campaign uh um unlawful campaign contribution that remains to be clear and it's and it's not quite clear how the how the judge will charge the jury on that I think that'll be a consequential thing and I know it'll be something that the court of appeals will look very closely at let's keep talking Ty cob love having you here nice to be with you cara take care

Channel: ABC News

Views: 106,020

Keywords: News, p_cmsid=2494279, p_vid=news-110184407, former President, Donald Trump, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels, Ty Cobb, hush money, trial, legal, lawyer, ABCNL, ABC News

Id: SQLqRwN6e5Q

Length: 10min 20sec (620 seconds)

Published: Mon May 13 2024