Trump pleads not guilty to charges in special counsel's 2020 election investigation | Special Report

[Music] foreign this is a CBS News special report I'm Nora O'Donnell here in the nation's capital and an extraordinary day today you are looking now at live pictures as former president Donald Trump heads to the federal courthouse he will be arraigned just blocks from the U.S Capitol and the White House over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and try and remain in office now this indictment which was handed down Tuesday describes what is called as a criminal scheme to keep Trump in office which culminated in the Insurrection at the Capitol on January 6 2021 and even before that Trump engaged in a pressure campaign targeting state election workers lawmakers and others according to this indictment and it also details Trump's efforts to use the Machinery of government including his own justice department to help him cling to power this will be the former president's third criminal arraignment this year he is also we should know note the early front-runner for the Republican Presidential nomination now Trump and his lawyers are defending his actions as expressions of Free Speech but even his own attorney general Bill Barr saying just last night free speech does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy the other really interesting thing about this 45-page indictment if you read through it is that it notes the role of the former vice president Mike Pence who told reporters just yesterday that Anyone who puts themselves over the Constitution should never be president of the United States the former president arrived in Washington not long ago these are the pictures of him landing at Reagan National Airport from his residence in Bedminster New Jersey and now his motorcade arriving at the E Barrett Prettyman Federal Courthouse to appear before a magistrate and we will get the details now from our own Chief Washington correspondent Major Garrett he is outside the courthouse there good afternoon major good afternoon Nora I will tell you that the atmosphere outside this courthouse is one of very quiet anticipation very few people here looking at this from the outside a great number of media Representatives probably a hundred cameras or more here to record this historic event the former president is inside the courthouse you see behind me first to be processed what does that mean that means he will be digitally fingerprinted he will have to answer a couple of questions that will all be handled by a Magistrate Judge then the president the former president will appear before a trial judge and enter a plea of not guilty this is your all take we are told somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes the atmosphere out here very calm very quiet to the degree that there are those either advocating on behalf of the former president or opposing him their interactions are civil very mild-mannered there is a very large security presence here this Courthouse nor as you well know in the geography of Washington DC is at the intersection of Constitution and Pennsylvania Avenue which means of course that this moment is where history law and politics come full circle because on January 6 2021 some of the protesters who went to the West front of the Capitol and some who entered it passed by this very Courthouse from where I'm standing I can see the West front of the Capitol here so it's all converging back where it started on that fateful day and Nora I can also tell you that the security here is occupied by Capitol Police U.S Marshals Secret Service Constitution Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue which I just referred to have been closed down that's a recent development here until a few moments ago traffic was flowing freely but the atmosphere around here is not tense there is no sense of civil hostility just quiet anticipation we are not hearing of any specific or credible plans for any type of disturbances at this hour but major you point out how that major intersection now shut down as the former president arriving there let's bring in our chief election and campaign correspondent Robert Costa I know you've been speaking with your sources this morning what have you learned so this is a legal Reckoning for former president Trump he's arriving in Washington not to have a quiet lunch at the White House but to come to a courthouse and to be accused of trying to defraud the country he once led the gravity of all this is juxtaposed by the levity inside of Trump's Inner Circle talking to his allies in the last hour some of them traveling with him they say he's bored by this they believe that he can consolidate his support now inside the Republican party and as much as he's facing scrutiny from the justice department he's not facing it from his own party the Republican Party who continues to push him in many quarters to be their nominee let's point out that the legal experts say that the four counts that are laid out in this indictment against Donald Trump are the most serious charges in all of the cases that he is facing it also marks the first time in American history that the president of the United States current or former is being charged for conduct while in office the former president is charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy against rights now the three conspiracies are detailed further in the indictment and they are this conspiracy to defraud the United States and that relates to Trump's alleged efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election using dishonesty fraud and deceit also conspiracy to obstruct the January 6 Congressional proceeding and the counting of the electoral votes of the 2020 election and conspiracy against voting rights which goes to the very heart of American democracy that is the right to have your vote counted and of course the special counsel alleging that that is something the president tried to prevent the special counsel Jack Smith spoke Tuesday following the unsealing of the indictment and he detailed how the former president a legislative allegedly orchestrated this conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election the attack on our nation's capital on January 6 2021 was an unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy it's described in the indictment it was fueled by lies Lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a Bedrock function of the U.S government the nation's process of collecting counting and certifying the results of the presidential election also joining us is our chief political analyst John Dickerson and John I was struck when I heard the special counsel say that of course of inauguration day when the new president comes and swears up there on the west front of the Capitol before the American people and all those that are watching to preserve protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and now the commander-in-chief is accused of doing something else than that to not holding true with that pledge that's exactly right the person given this tremendous power used that power to attack the system that he swears to defend that's at the heart of this and the reason this matters it's extraordinary to hear Bob's reporting that the former president is bored by this this is the vital Beating Heart of our democracy and one of the things that happens in Justice we've often heard this in cases is that uh you know prosecutors or judges will say that Justice does not sleep it doesn't get bored because when things are at stake as serious as this this isn't some parking ticket Justice stays on the case and that's what's happening here and this isn't just about what happened two and a half years ago these are vital questions today what's more important conspiracies or facts what's more important partisanship or country what's more important violence or the system those are all still live questions in our public debates today and they'll be live going into the election next year we'll put Jeff begaze covers the justice department for us and on that matter the justice department has been quite busy this is the largest criminal case in American history beginning with many of those defendants who are charged and have been convicted in assaulting the US Capitol on January 6th which makes you wonder why a defendant would consider himself bored with cases like this most most people on Earth would be shaking in their boots I mean these are pretty serious charges that could lead to pretty serious jail time and they have this special counsel's office working overtime essentially to bring these charges against this former president because when you take on an adversary like like this you have to be prepared you have to have your facts right and that's in part well we have this 45 page indictment here there is a lot in here but I'm sure they have more I want to bring in Robert Costa again and Robert um walk us through what essentially is in this indictment because addition in addition to these charges we also get a glimpse of some of the evidence that the special counsel has a lot of evidence but what's important to recognize when you digest this document is that this indictment was issued against former president Trump while the investigation continues so the special counsel Jack Smith is still pressing some of these alleged co-conspirators and other witnesses to further cooperate with the government as they build the case against Trump it's almost like you're trying to fix the plane or change a plane's engine while it's Landing this is a lot of work going on simultaneously inside the justice department and what this indictment shows in brief is a former president then in the White House was orchestrating his scheme that played off on many fronts it wasn't just Trump asking someone to try to overturn the election it was Trump based on this indictment leaning on members of Congress leaning on people at the justice department leaning on his own lawyers leaning on state Republican officials and election officials trying to get all of them to enlist in this idea that the election was stolen a false claim the special mental scheme is called and the reason it's called a criminal scheme by the special counsel is He is building evidence about this crucial period Nora a couple days after the election and he believes he has evidence that shows Trump acknowledged privately that he lost the election now the special counsel has evidence that Trump acknowledged this privately and then pursued a whole conspiracy allegedly based on the premise that he didn't lose the election then That's the basis for this allegation of fraud that Trump knew he lost yet still pursued the presidency through corrupt means based on this indictment and it's on the very first page of the indictment these claims about that the election was stolen were false and the defendant knew they were false why is that so critical it's so critical because Trump and his lawyers are preparing an argument that lawyers on the outside gave him an exit ramp to stay in the presidency another path but if he knowingly said the election was over and I have reported that he in the days after the election told one of his top advisers kellyanne Conway he said something to the effect of I can't believe I lost this election to Joe Biden I can't believe I lost the fact that he said that to different Associates behind the scenes means that everything that came after that post-election period was a conspiracy based on false claims because Trump knew that he had lost the election if he knew he lost the election it still tried to push all these people to keep him in power that is seen as Criminal Intent the criminal intent to stay in office not just to have the belief that you rigged the election and then the election was rigged and that you could do this but Trump's lawyer said but that's his free speech he's allowed to do that that's you can express a lot of criticism about the election and Trump's lawyers will continue to argue Free Speech but his former Attorney General William Barr has said in recent days and on CBS News in recent weeks criticizing the election is one thing but then pressuring people to keep you in power using all the different levers at your at your disposal as president of the United States is different than expressing free speech in the eyes of the special counsel it's not free speech it's abuse of power and free speech is not absolute there are lots and lots of limits on Free Speech you can't say certain kinds of things and you certainly can't say certain signs of things in furtherance of a crime and that's why the focus here is on the fraud the crimes that were committed the conspiracy that he went into that's the important piece not not the fact that he was speaking and the indictment of course also details stuff that is other than speech it's conduct specific content the main the main thing you have to recognize here is the special counsel has done more work than any previous investigation on detailing how Trump tried to enlist people to be so-called fake electors or alternate electors he wanted to essentially throw out votes allegedly in all of these different states and have Republicans in those States send new slates back to Washington think about how unique this is historically in December of 2020 as our Constitution states the Electoral College votes and then on January 6 2021 it was supposed to be a formality a certification it's like Congress puts a stamp on something that's already been done I mean we've never really even covered it before until this year this past election but then in December 30th 2020 Trump and his allies in Congress they say wait a minute this is maybe a certification on January 6 but we're going to use this as an opportunity to attempt to throw out some of these votes and to not have it be about a certification but an objection and to send the election back to the States and then back to the house I know this is convoluted but I want to make one quick Point what Trump ultimately wanted to do here if you're wondering what was the scheme about what was this really about Trump wanted the election to go into the House of Representatives because if it went into the House of Representatives Trump believed the Republican delegations there would be able to vote him as our constitution lays out it's called the contingent election Trump could win a second term if he could just push the election into the House of Representatives it was a winding path but Trump was so convinced he could do it that he pressured his vice president his most loyal soldier of all people to try to put this into motion and it wasn't just his vice president it was members of Congress even on the day of the certification the president and his allies were calling members of Congress they were calling Senators they were pressuring secretaries of State they were pressuring Governors trying to go anywhere they could to either overthrow the results in various States or to get these lawmakers to Halt the counts they could continue to push their case went Way Beyond Free Speech we've got lots to get to in terms of digging into some of the legal arguments that we've got our team here to discuss that as well we may also hear later today for from Trump himself as well as his attorney but I want to give everybody a sense about what is going to happen here today's proceedings because they are scheduled down to the minute an official tells CBS news that the former president will be processed by the U.S Marshals at the federal courthouse before being taken into the courtroom now this process is going to mirror that in Trump's First Federal arraignment in Miami we were all there for that and then Trump's fingerprints will be collected by a digital scanner but he will not have a mug shot taken today the former president will then make his initial court appearance where he is expected to plead not guilty and then he is expected to return home to his Club in Bedminster New Jersey let's bring in Congressional correspondent Scott McFarland he is inside the courthouse and Scott describe what you're seeing we're in the second story of the courthouse room 22.2 is where the former president will appear he's going to appear before Magistrate Judge mokshila oppadi the crowd has already been seated here Nora there are two different sets of wooden benches in rows and there are two long tables to the judges left will be the special counsel attorneys we expect Jack Smith in the room too that the judges write will be former president Trump and his legal team if he enters through a back entrance he'll be able to avoid walking through that crowd if he goes through the main entrance of the doors there's a double door a little foyer then another double door he'll walk into this room which is about the size of a small elementary school gymnasium floor to ceilings light brown wood but behind the judge is this big white marble wall U.S flag and a big seal over the wall at the top of the wall and she'll be ministering this administering the plea entering the release conditions and the other instructions and any other questions from the attorneys when former president Trump enters he'll go to that table take his seat on a black rolling chair and wait for the judge to call things to order a couple notes this cavernous Courthouse one of the most bustling and busy in America has pretty much ground to a hall today they split a lot of small matters off the calendar they moved cases to next week to free up space and free up some security to do their work and just now entering the courthouse as the proceedings are about to begin the U.S Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn and retired Sergeant aquilino go now two of the most outspoken police who were part of that January 6 response Nora it underscores something this case unlike the others happening right here in the nation's capital just feet away from where the attack happened all right Scott McFarland thank you also outside the courthouse we are hearing now from Alina Haba she is an attorney and spokeswoman for Donald J Trump let's listen in the fact that I am standing here for the third time in five months is not a coincidence this is the Biden political law fair that we have seen time and time again it is a deflection from everything that they have done and if you don't believe me look at the facts on March 17th Hunter accidentally admits that it was his laptop from hell the next day day Alvin Bragg indicts president Trump June 8th an FBI document is released showing that the ukrainians paid the Biden crime family millions and millions of dollars the next day the Mar-A-Lago raid and the Mar-A-Lago indictment last week Hunter Biden's sweetheart plea deal fell through when the judge realized it had blanket immunity the following day a superseding indictment against Donald Trump July 31st Devin Archer goes to testify in front of the house that was only after they failed to put him in jail prior to the fact what happens the next day the January 6th indictment that we're here for today this is not a coincidence this is election interference at its finest against the leading candidate right now for president for either party president Trump is under siege in a way that we have never seen before president Trump and his legal team and everyone on his team will continue to fight not for him but for the American people I'll take some questions I know the president has called this a Witch Hunt you just laid out several examples of that uh any other thoughts from that the president has communicated to you in terms of why this is going on and the why he calls it a Witch Hunt China is real Racine in our time this is not even political this is beyond that a Witch Hunt is when you relentlessly attack your opponent when you relentlessly attack the thing that you are most afraid of people are afraid of somebody that cannot be bought by Washington people are afraid of somebody who is independently wealthy and who has given up his good life to fight for this country and that frightens a lot of politicians who are career politicians unfortunately because he'll get back there and I know he'll be fighting for every one of us so that this doesn't happen to us and that is Alina Haba who is a spokesperson and attorney who represents Donald Trump as a spokesperson but as you noted of course noting this is a political prosecution she is saying of the of Donald Trump but she did not address any of the specifics that were outlined in this indictment by the special counsel Jack Smith or rebutting the conspiracy or obstruction charges I wanted to bring in our chief Washington correspondent Major Garrett as he was listening along as well major your take so the judge in this case when it comes to trial is not going to be interested in what happened or didn't happen to Hunter Biden the judge will be interested in the evidence presented that either backs up or doesn't back up the indictment provided by the special counsel Jack Smith now Elena Haba speaking on behalf of the former president wants to make an association in timing between developments regarding Hunter Biden and the former president that's an interesting story it has a narrative Arc that the former president's campaign believes is persuasive but it is utterly immaterial in a court of law and when she talks about the weaponization of the justice department at least in this case it is worth noting nor as you well know and as Bob Costa knows from his very thorough reporting the fact Witnesses in this case all worked for former president Trump in one capacity or another either inside the White House inside the Trump campaign within the legal Circle that the president assumed or created after he was frustrated by the campaign lawyers that told him he had lost the election fair and square so the fact Witnesses are not part of any cabal seeking to undermine or deflate the political prospects of the former president they were those hired by him to serve the country or serve his campaign or serve his various legal challenges one other observation I would make earlier today the former president on his social media platform said he is being arrested quote unquote he's being processed for challenging a corrupt and stolen election he is not being processed or arrested for challenging that election he had every right as every candidate does to legally challenge an election he lost nearly 60 of those challenges in open court and often the most harsh denunciations of the lack of evidence and lack of standing brought before various courts were written by Trump appointed judges he is not being processed or arrested and this indictment is not about lawful challenging of election it is about as Robert has pointed out a concerted effort once being told over and over again that the election was lost that legal challenges have failed extra legal Maneuvers were undertaken to thwart the will of the people you outlined that so well Major Garrett thank you John Dickerson I just want to say briefly what Alina Hammer was doing just there is what I was talking about earlier the issues at stake here happened two and a half years ago but we see in just this moment claiming things that are not true or or talking about things that are over here and not focusing on the Central Point that's what happened two and a half years ago and we see it happening afresh and that's why this discussion of what happened two and a half years ago whether we can look at the facts as they are is still a live one and is is being presented right there before us in terms of whether we can seriously adjudicate this moment that was one of the most serious in American history I want to drill down one of the points that major made which is that much of the evidence here is from Republican officials that served alongside the former president not only we believe uh his Chief of Staff Mark Meadows but most importantly uh the vice president Mike Pence because Pence or the office of the vice presidency is mentioned over a hundred times in a 45-page indictment little did we know that Mike Pence was taking contemporaneous notes of these conversations with Donald Trump which are detailed in this indictment including two particular phone calls that stood out to me on Christmas Day and on New Year's Day Robert and Mike Pence was on vacation in late December of 2020 and Steve Bannon Trump's longtime advisor infamously called Trump on December 30th 2020 and said get Pence off the ski slopes and get them back to Washington because we need to use him now to make him our weapon on January 6 for Mike Pence what a journey I used to cover him in the House of Representatives he was a conservative from Indiana he called himself Rush Limbaugh on decaf he hosted a radio show in the industrial Heartland now he's the key witness in a historic federal investigation of the man he was loyal to for so years he did take contemporaneous notes and he was talking to his trusted lawyers and advisors Mark short and Greg Jacob both cooperated with the January 6 committee as Witnesses all the time and I think about that famous moment in January 5th 2021 the eve of the Insurrection Pence is in the oval with Trump one-on-one and when he exits the Oval Office after being berated by Trump who said Mike you have to do what I want you to do listen to the Mob outside one of Pence's closest friends Tom Rose sees pence come out of the Oval Office and he says to others in the room Pence was as white as a ghost it was like he was in a hospital and gotten bad news it was the most traumatic moment of his vice presidency because Trump in essence was asking him in the view of Pence's advisors to break the law and doesn't he use a particular word at some point to insult Mike Pence as well he does he uses many words some of them expletives we shouldn't mention yeah on CBS News I always January fourth he did it on January 6 at the rally well and on Christmas day Mike Pence a Christian man called to say to the president Merry Christmas and the conversation according to Pence's notes quickly turned to the election and the pressure campaign and to throw out these electoral votes and Pence told the special counsel I don't think I have the authority to change the outcome and then on New Year's Day again a berating by President Trump to Mike Pence about that and Mike Pence says I don't think I can do that there's no constitutional basis and at that point Trump says to him to Mike Pence you're too honest and my chances now selling merch in his bid for the presidency that says Mike Pence too honest on it it's almost as if he is being has been sort of uh Unchained by the fact that this indictment has now been released he's speaking out more forcefully against the former president than he has in the past he says the president was Moore loyal wanted him to be loyal to to Trump not to the Constitution but what is he getting from Republican voters in return not much according to recent polls Nora Mike Pence is at three percent and the other Republican candidates who are willing to speak out routinely against President Trump they're basically in the same boat will heard Chris Christie ASA Hutchinson when you add up all of these candidates together they've got about six percent of the Republican electorate while the president's support the former president support is only growing I just want to note we are showing from the indictment on page 33 that conversation that I was just detailing that happened on New Year's Day where the the Trump says to the vice president you're too honest and then as the indictment lays out here that within an hours of that conversation the defendant otherwise known as Donald Trump reminded his supporters to meet in Washington before the certification tweeting the big protest rally in Washington will take place a lot 11 A.M and just to grasp the obvious here this is not only amusing because Mike Pence is is selling merchandise with too honest on it but um it suggests that the president knew what he was asking my Pence to do was dishonest and therefore he knew what he was doing which is one of the things that the special counsel is alleged you are so good at setting me up here and thank you Nancy because if Mike Pence is using that slogan in this kind of political environment not sure that works these days being too honest you know so it's an interesting approach but I also wanted to talk about the three cases that the spokesperson for president Trump or president Trump uh pointed out three cases this case is different okay you have the classified documents case you have the case in Manhattan but this is not a victimless case and I think people sort of get caught up in the politics of it all but again people were injured more than a hundred officers in injured you had officers who died as a result you're going to have family members in the courtroom you're going to have former officers in the courtroom this is not a victimless crime this is different and even getting outside of Washington DC you had poll workers whose lives were threatened you had people who work to adjudicate these elections who felt that they were personally threatened because they were being singled out and and being described by either the former president or by Rudy Giuliani as having done something terribly wrong when there was no evidence that they had we're getting some new information from what's happening right now inside that Courthouse let's go to our Congressional correspondent Scott McFarland who is there Scott what can you tell us Jack Smith the special counsel has just entered courtroom 22 take a defeat at a bench near the prosecution table and the prosecutors are now at this long rectangular table he seated in her black rolling chair we're waiting on the judge now and we're waiting on the former president and his defense team to enter this courtroom to begin the proceeding so many other January 6 defendants had their initial appearances this week Nora the Court's been dealing with dozens of them each week and in each case we watched they made a virtual first appearance they were given that opportunity for logistical reasons and because of the caseload here Donald Trump has chosen to come here in person today now this is an event that is clearly invisible to America No cameras here he was taken through a private entrance but being here does amplify the significance of this moment he's about to walk in the courtroom and take his seat for the third time at a defense table in front of a judge the first two times I noticed it seeing it face to face he was slumped over said little made very few Expressions took very few notes today when he sits with his defense team in this distinctive January 6 case before a Magistrate Judge it's worth underscoring Nora this is the last time this Magistrate Judge is going to have a case it moves next to U.S judge Tanya a 2014 appointee event President Obama who has been among the only judges I've seen who has exceeded the prosecutor's recommendations for sentencings in January six cases she tells a uniquely hard line and what about all of those January 6 defendants who have been who have had a jury by a trial by jury I should say what has been the conviction rate 100 Nora every single January 6th defendant to go to trial by jury has been convicted at least partially there have been only two acquittals of the 1100 cases but those were both trial by judge and one of them was simply a misdemeanor case the justice department is batting a thousand with this unique dynamic in which Donald Trump now finds himself in a D.C federal court where the juries have convicted everybody they faced with a Tethered to January 6th one other note there were other January six cases here earlier today including a former Chicago police officer and a man named Jay Johnston a former actor on the TV show Bob's Burgers wow and what and what is he accused of Scott these are what we would characterize as lower level cases moderate level cases these are not people accused of conspiracy or sedition these are people that were in that mob that day allegedly Donald Trump facing this charge of obstruction of an official proceeding joins 310 other Americans facing that charge for January 6. and that conspiracy charge conspiracy to obstruct he joins roughly 55 others facing that charge for January 6th according to our CBS newscast this is serious business that the justice department has not taken this lightly they have prosecuted them to the max they have searched for years for each of these individuals involved and they are not done and this particular judge who has been chosen by random to oversee the Trump case she has handed down particularly tough sentences against other January 6 defendants in fact in a few cases she even handed down tougher sentences than doj was recommending there were times when doj had recommended no jail time and she decided to hand down a few weeks a couple months of jail time so she's she's pretty formidable as as you noted this investigation has gone on for two years now hundreds thousands of pieces of evidence a lot of video evidence and that's why the conviction rate is really pretty good because they have video evidence of these people many of them attacking police officers attacking other people going after members of Congress so the evidence is there in many of these cases and this is all to hold a former president accountable and there are three people who wanted to hold him accountable shortly after January 6. one of them was Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell who said we have a criminal justice system in this country we have civil litigation a former president is not immune from being held accountable Senator Lindsey Graham an ally of the president when it comes to accountability the president needs to understand that his actions were the problem the now Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy the president bearish responsibility for Wednesday's attack just to remind everybody that the leaders of his party and of course Mike Pence we've talked about all said the president was accountable for the events that led up to January 6th this indictment obviously has two months worth of activity not just what happened on the day but when we think about accountability the leaders of the party that that he is the head of were the ones who were saying that he should be held to account so despite some of their more recent lack of statements or conversions they at the time said that Donald Trump should face accountability we've just been told that Donald Trump has entered the courtroom also in the courtroom is the special counsel Jack Smith and I want to spend a moment on Jack Smith because um he is essentially who Donald Trump is up against and multiple of these indictments the two of course the classified documents and the January 6th one and they are sitting across from each other inside this courtroom Jack Smith is someone who has run over and competed in over a hundred triathlons he was reportedly at one point hit while he was on his bike by a truck and ten weeks later he ran another Triathlon this is a man of a lot of grit and a lot of determination and even what we have seen in these indictments is just a sliver of what they know in his prosecutorial team knows right his aggressive approach to his personal health and exercise correlates to how he approaches his prosecution and his strategy we've talked a lot about how the former president is under pressure but Jack Smith is also under pressure today he is moving at an aggressive Pace to try to move to what he has called the speedy trial a former president Trump but he's going to face obstacles we heard from Alina Haba one of former president Trump spokespeople but the people who are likely to be in the courtroom today with Trump is a different set of lawyers Todd Blanche a veteran criminal defense attorney Evan Corcoran who's been working on the January 6 case with Trump for a long time they are going to push the judge judge chutkin in next week's status hearing which they expect to happen to delay this trial and to make sure that they have ample time for Discovery delaying is Central to what the Trump legal team is going to push for they are going to argue based on our reporting that because of what's unfolding in New York because of the classified documents case which has thousands of thousands of documents already to sift through in Discovery that Trump cannot now move to a quick trial on January 6 and they want to have time to talk to a lot of people in the discovery process it will be critical the decision made by judge chutkin about the timing of this trial will it occur before the presidential election because this has all the consequence for how it plays out and as you noted the legal strategy now is a good time to bring in our esteemed legal analysts and just before we do that I do want to know we're getting some new information and Reporting about Donald Trump he has entered this courtroom he is wearing a red tie today he walked slowly over to the prosecution table he sat down we are told he is now seated between John lauro to his left and Todd Blanche to his right and he is speaking back and forth with his attorneys looking around the room even at The Gallery at times with his hands clasped we will continue to update as we have reporters inside the courtroom but to dig down into what Trump's legal strategy is and more on this indictment let's bring in CBS News legal analyst Ricky Ricky Clement excuse me Ricky and Scott Fredrickson a former Federal prosecutor Ricky let me start with you what about that legal strategy of delay delay delay could they have success with that absolutely every defendant wants to delay a delay means that a defendant is free for a longer period of time this is an age-old strategy but with Donald Trump he has legitimate reasons to ask for delay because he is at the moment facing two other indictments with a possible indictment yet in Georgia he's also running for public office so yes he may have success whether it is in Washington D.C or any of the other jurisdictions Nora and Scott Frederickson let me ask you about that they have also talked about John lauro on CBS said they'd like to move it to West Virginia do you think they'll have any success in doing that you know that's going to go over like a lead balloon that is uh there's no basis whatsoever in the law for moving a case-changing venue this is a typical challenge you find in high profile cases and those kinds of challenge always lose the law is very clear the way the court deals with the concerns that the defense has about getting a fair trial is to ensure that the judge and the both sides pick a fair jury to pick juries who will set aside what they know and what they don't know or what they think and commit to being objective triers of facts but it's almost laughable to suggest that this is going to go to West Virginia it's not going to go anywhere there's no basis in fact for that challenge and Scott your best guess about when this trial could begin well I think that's the the big issue I think that's the big issue facing Jack Smith right now he's got a formidable case you know if I have to pick sides I'm I'd pick issues any day and frankly I think what he's hearing about advice a council and true belief that's music to his ears those defenses fall flat in the face once you get in front of a jury his challenge is to get this case to a jury before the election if at all possible and I think one of the things he's going to pitch is that this of all the cases goes to the core of what he is investigating the charges are of constitutional and historical significance I think he'll ask the judge to move this case ahead to the top of her docket and ahead of the Mar-A-Lago documents case all right Scott thank you I want to bring in Tim parlatore because he served as a trump attorney for a brief period but left due to differences with Trump advisor Boris Epstein Mr parlatore joins us now and Tim thank you for joining us first want to start with you I'm I'm sure you have read through this indictment what do you think is the gravest threat to Donald Trump included here you know reading through this indictment it actually was kind of surprising to me um how little work Jack Smith had really done on this case to properly put together the required elements this case you know most of the facts are under Undisputed because they happened out in public the one key fact there that they have to get over is knowledge did he know at the time that the claims of fraud were false did he know at the time that he'd actually lost the election and reading the indictment there really wasn't anything in there to indicate that Jack Smith had done his homework on that everything in there just it said you know he was told by some people there was fraud by other people there wasn't Tim I just happened to have it right here page seven so if you're following along at home the claims were false and the defendant knew they were false in fact the defendant was notified repeatedly that his claims were untrue Often by the people of whom he relied on for candid and advice a the defendant's vice president B the senior leaders of the justice department C the Director of National Intelligence D the Department of Homeland Security cyber security and infrastructure Security Agency e senior White House attorneys let me turn now to page eight F senior staffers on the defendant's 2020 election campaign G State legislatures and officials many of whom were the defendant's political allies and H state and federal courts the neutral Arbiters so what are you saying that he didn't do his homework it's laid out here A through h uh yeah I'm saying that that is something that looks great on paper looks great in an indictment into Falls totally flat once you put it into a courtroom because you have to have every single one of those people come in and testify about that and they have to all be cross-examined and so you go right down that list every single one of them Bill Barr is going to have to come in there and testify that yes he told president Trump that there was no evidence of fraud but then he's going to be cross-examined how many agents did you have go out and investigate how many man hours were expended on that how many witnesses did you interview did you send anybody to look at the machines what did you do to actually verify any of these claims did you even sit with Mr Giuliani to see what he was telling the president that you needed to go and verify the answer to those questions when it comes to bar is going to be no to every single one of them and so if you can't show that the people that are telling him there's no fraud had actually done an investigation it actually done the work and could back it up by anything other than nowhere not going to investigate because we don't think that there's fraud then when it comes to a jury who has to find Beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew that's going to totally die again it looks great in an indictment but it dies in front of a jury the former Attorney General Bill Barr has said publicly on television so I'm sure he would say it in a courtroom that he did look into the claims and found no proof of election fraud and if he's subjected to actual questioning by an attorney during cross-examination this can actually dig beneath the surface not just accept those statements at face value dig in to find out the details I think that you're all going to be very surprised at what Mr Barr has to say Tim parlatore thank you for joining us want to bring in Ricky cleeman and Ricky is there a counter argument that you'd like to make yes there is a counter argument first of all I think that the indictment is a narrowly drawn very pointed look at each of the crimes to satisfy each element of each offense charge there is no doubt in my mind that Jack Smith has already written his closing argument when this indictment was drafted because you have to look at the result when you look at the beginning and Jack Smith has taken into consideration each witness that he is going to call understanding that his burden is proved Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and understanding that they will be cross-examined I have no doubt that Jack Smith can prove his case whether or not he can prove it to the satisfaction of a jury Beyond A Reasonable Doubt is not for me to say it's for a jury to say but with all due respect to Tim I'd do not think this is an indictment that is so bare that he cannot prove it also want to bring in former Federal prosecutor Scott Frederickson and Scott um I just didn't understand the argument that Tim was making and I am not a lawyer but I've read the indictment and there's multiple which I just read on the air instances where apparently the special counsel has lined up a lot of evidence yeah I'm mystified and frankly uh the kind of cross-examination that was suggested by uh Tim with all due respect is kind of uh fundamental 101 for prosecutors and defense counsel uh that's walking into a trap and Bill Barrow hit it out of the park and tell him about how uh they did have agents out in the field and they did investigate and they looked at video they'll have evidence from each one that you listed there that's not going to be any problem having them show up and testify a trial and there'll be evidence of of a respected private company that the president hired to look into the fraud and they found nothing that I think will be part of the overwhelming evidence you see and by providing that evidence that destroys the advice of council defense as well you know advice of council has to be based on true facts it can't be based on false facts manipulated facts which is what this big steel argument was all about and the president was told not only by his attorney general but top doj officials his own White House counsel the head of National Intelligence the head of cyber security his family his chief of staff his top campaign officials you know when they get done testifying uh I don't think the defense is one is going to want to get up and do any cross-examination they're going to have to think of a different defense just to build on what Scott Frederickson said for Mr parlatore to suggest that it was the responsibility of the Attorney General to be the overseer of all claims of election fraud Scott mentioned Chris Krebs who was running the cyber security and infrastructure Security Agency for the Trump Administration a trump appointee and nine days after the election in 2020 Krebs issued a statement along with his agency saying quote there is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes change votes or was in any way compromised and this came as people who were named as likely co-conspirators not named but suggested co-conspirators in this indictment like Sydney Powell were saying that there was foreign influence in this election Trump's own appointees and officials separate from anything the justice department was doing said this election was as secure as any in history there's a mountain of evidence that the election was not stolen and people who were Republicans that said it and investigated it including multiple court cases this is at this point Undisputed other than in the political Realm I mean yeah absolutely and it happened in real time I mean this isn't these aren't details that Were Somehow uncovered by Jack Smith we heard from Bill Barr publicly in real time we heard from Chris Krebs publicly in real time we heard from secretaries of State publicly in real time that there was no fraud that they uncovered in this election and as Scott mentioned the courts took a look too the system for adjudicating these claims looked at them and the president was shut out in which is to say he lost all of the cases let's bring in Democratic congressmen and former January 6 committee chair Benny Thompson he joins us now and Mr chairman thank you for joining us your committee did extensive work on what happened on January 6th much of that was referred to the justice department I haven't had the chance to speak with you but as you've read through this indictment what stuck out to you well a lot of it was the body of work on January 6 committing uncovered we talked to people all over the country election officials uh uh people who conducted uh campaigns for uh the candidate and without uh almost to the person they indicated that they found no no real fault as you know a lot of our Witnesses were Republican officials uh and they basically said uh we reviewed it we uh recounted and we could find nothing wrong uh the testimony from the secretary of state of Georgia uh says the same thing and so uh we put on a body of witnesses that we think uh presented the fact that former president Trump knew he had lost the election but he also know uh to his other people that uh uh there was nothing there that said the election was stolen Mr chairman I want to ask you too about the thought that there could be a trial of the former commander-in-chief not far from where you work every day in the U.S Capitol at that Courthouse which is the intersection of Pennsylvania Avenue and Constitution Avenue what will that be like what will that mean for our country well I think it's part of that how we test our system of democracy no one is above the law not even the president of the United States uh it has nothing to do with the the timing of the election uh I believe that the Department of Justice looked at a lot of our work and added it to their body of work and determined that something uh had gone amiss and in presenting the evidence to a grand jury obviously that grand jury agreed uh I don't feel good about the fact that a former president of the United States is going on trial but I do feel good that our system of democracy Works in that uh if you are found guilty of any charge or if you are accused of it uh you have your day in court Donald Trump is no different uh I'm convinced based on our review of the facts that uh as you know we made some recommendations that uh we think he did do some things wrong but we were not a prosecutorial body uh and that's why what you see with the special counsel is the logical step uh to determine ultimately uh whether or not Donald Trump is guilty Benny Thompson the congressman who chaired the committee and heard hundreds of hours of testimony from more than 1 000 people and of course turning over those findings to the justice department chairman Thompson thank you so much for joining us thank you Nancy Cordes you covered Capitol Hill now you're the chief White House correspondent I mean they did a lot that committee did a lot of work extensive work that we all covered here on CBS News and watched a lot of that evidence and testimony and it is hard to overstate how influential the findings of that committee were and how much influence they have had on this indictment that we're looking at right now you know this case was kind of in limbo at doj a couple of years after January 6 took place it's not hard to see why it was a novel case nothing like this had ever happened before it was totally unprecedented legally and of course it was politically fraught but then the January 6 committee did the Herculean work of of interviewing all of these people some of them for the first time putting together this compelling narrative and then saying to doj and here are the criminal statutes that we believe you could pursue and they sort of tied it up in a neat bow into a way that had not been done before and what's the result it's the indictment that you see this week to build on what Nancy just said perhaps the most important thing chairman Thompson's committee did is it brought Trump to the center of the story in terms of making him in their view The Mastermind of this conspiracy recall what happened in the days after the capital attack Democrats in the house and some Republicans mounted an impeachment process against Trump and they impeached him and they impeached him for inciting a riot it was about Trump's conduct during the day of the capital attack what was the first subpoena issued by the January 6 committee it came in September of 2021 and it was about phone calls Trump was making to Giuliani and others from the White House on January 5th with the committee uncovered through its reporting through its interviews is that Trump was driving this not reacting to a rally Trump was pushing this into motion and we saw that with the tweets of course that are outlined not only in the indictment that we're familiar with as well the continued invitation to his supporters to come to Washington to not only stop the steal but in his words um to essentially rally against it's going to be wild thank you very much it's going to be loud yes two other things from the January 6th committee we've talked about it before but it Bears repeating which is so much of the testimony came from people who were in the room and this close to the president as possible and the January 6 committee put all that out there so this wasn't just hearsay these this is people who were fact Witnesses in the moment it also cracked open some things um remember there was that fight over John Eastman's emails and in that course of that the U.S District Judge David Carter looked at those emails and found that in one filing in Georgia on December 4th that John Eastman said to the said wait a minute we can't say that this many votes were were for dead people it turns out that's not true but then they went ahead and said it anyway why is that important because one of the things at issue is whether the president knew that what he was saying was false and went ahead and said it anyway and that was cracked open by the activities of the January 6 committee also true vice president Pence's lawyer who testifies to the fact that the president was told by John Eastman that the scheme actually wasn't awful again to the heart of the special counsel's case so not only did he know that he lost the election he knew that the claims that he was making were also false and made them anyway and engaged in a conspiracy anyway and the conspiracy was put on paper it was John Eastman wrote a two-page memo and I remember when Bob Woodward and I found this memo but authored by John easement it almost seemed unreal that this was put into paper memorialized for history the final point the main thing here Eastman writes to republicans in Congress and Trump is that Pence should do all of this without asking for permission want to bring in Major Garrett who is outside the courthouse who has followed this all so closely as well major a couple of things Nora on the atmospheric still very calm still very quiet right after the former president arrived they reopened constitution in Pennsylvania Avenue so a very small footprint in terms of slowing downtown D.C down for this proceeding I imagine when the former president leaves the courthouse behind me those streets will be blocked again but everything is Flowing just as it normally would be right now just want to give you that atmospheric here on the Plaza of the courthouse a couple of things that Mr parlatore said that I think bear considering for a second he said under cross-examination these witnesses will fall flat before a jury that's the key phrase before a jury the Trump strategy is to find one juror to hang that jury and why do I think that matters in Mr parlatory's words because I have traveled the country I've written a book about this topic about the way we do elections about the certification process about the fact that over 95 percent paper ballots auditable paper ballots across our country in 2020 the highest percentage ever in a national election and for those who believe what the former president says there is no amount of evidence that will persuade them otherwise none and so what Mr parlatory is saying is put those Witnesses on the stand and ask the former Attorney General well did you go into the machines go into the machines what are you talking about the method by which you confirm a vote is to audit the paper ballots and when the audit matches the ballots that's how you know the election has been fairly certified and verified there's no going into the machines but if you ask a question and say Whirlwind didn't go into the machines does that create a sliver of Doubt does that create one iota of doubt that one juror might cling to I'm telling you when Mr parlatory described it that way Falls flat before a jury he was explaining exactly that process that lies as Robert Costa well knows very near the heart of the Trump strategy and thank you Major Garrett Nancy you have some of the numbers there as well sure I mean it won't be hard to find that one drawer it might be a little more difficult in democrat-leaning DC but recent polls have showed that seven in ten Republican voters or republican leaning voters still believe that Joe Biden did not legitimately win this election three years later they still believe that that is near an all-time high that shows you how effective Donald Trump's messaging really was way back then and it also helps to explain why he's now polling above 50 percent in Republican primaries but the special counsel's job is to keep the the eye on the ball and the eye on the ball here is even if he really thought this was true despite this mountain of evidence he went and engaged in activities that were outside the bounds of what you're supposed to do if you believe this is true you're allowed to believe this and then you run it through a system and if you win or lose in that system that's the way it works you can't go around the system and engage in conspiracy so there may be doubt about whether there's metaphysical certainty about the election it doesn't matter the activities he engaged in says the says the special prosecutor we're not allowed regardless of what your underlying belief is an update about what's happening inside that courtroom we have been told that the proceedings are now underway the Magistrate Judge has taken the bench that's about 20 minutes after Trump entered the courtroom so to imagine that Trump had to wait for about 20 minutes before the judge entered must have been interesting to see what he was doing during that period when the judge entered Trump and the rest of the courtroom stood in attention and then were seated again we have reporters inside that courtroom I will continue to update on every detail as soon as I get it and share them with you want to bring in David Becker who is our CBS News election expert he also co-wrote the big truth upholding democracy in the age of the big lie along with Major Garrett David good to see you and on that note about what some Republicans May believe and what the facts are and what has been adjudicated in the courts where do we stand well you made a really good point just a moment ago about how the special counsel really laid out both knowledge of the general fact that the election wasn't stolen and some very highly specific facts that related to individual states that were laid out one by one by one the allegation that ten thousand dead people had voted in Georgia it turned out that that number was closer to four after an extensive investigation explained to him by Republicans who had voted for him the allegations that there were over two hundred thousand more voters in Pennsylvania than it actually lived in Pennsylvania that allegation is just false on its face and is very very clear and this has done time and time again and we sit here now one thousand and three days since the November 2020 election and there still has not been one shred of evidence presented to all of the many courts all over the country that indicates that there was any significant fraud or malfeasance or the outcome was improper we even have Republican law enforcement officials in Georgia having to enforce subpoenas against people who have claimed that there were fraud but wouldn't show the evidence this has happened over the course of the last over a thousand days now and again what you see from the indictment is this list of all of the people Republicans all all Trump voters who were telling the president contemporaneously in November and December and January of 2020 and 2021 that what his what he was claiming was false after extensive investigation you can imagine how Jack Smith and his fellow his colleagues will be bringing in witness after witness after witness and if the best that the defendant can do is to say well tell us more about the investigation you did that's going to be some very damning evidence that is going to just pile up over days of testimony and then the real question becomes does the defendant himself form president Trump the person who best knows his state of mind and knowledge at the point in time decide to testify on his own behalf and the risks that go along with that ask me this question today is there any chance that a trial when it happens would be televised or you could hear audio of it live in a federal courtroom it's extremely rare I mean there's there's going to be efforts to do that in this case for sure uh they're very good arguments that a um that the general public has a great interest in this proceeding um it may even be that both sides agree that they want it televised that's going to be something we're going to see played out over time but the pressures to televise this in real time or at least release audio are going to be pretty strong and you know to be quite honest there might be some serious benefits to the country as a whole to hear this testimony being presented and David do you imagine that this trial could happen this this year early next year probably closer to early next year I mean this is a trial where the facts are largely already known I think the special counsel was very disciplined in how he laid out the indictment here so that it could move expeditiously to trial at some fairly early date they're still going to need to be some time for the defense to prepare a defense and the judge is of course going to allow that that's going to take several months but my expectation is the special counsel is going to ask for this trial to happen probably in the very early part of next year and then sometime actually take place in sometime in the first half of next year David Becker thank you a quick update from inside the courtroom Trump has been sworn in he stood up raised his hand the judge also instructed Trump on the schedule for the day and Trump spoke into the microphone and said Donald J Trump John at the request of the judge to State his name and he said he is 77 years old 7-7 he said to the judge from inside that courtroom want to bring in Jeff begays and Jeff you've heard the argument from Trump's attorneys why did it take the justice department so long to bring this case and they are arguing for equal time in other words to delay the trial so they would have equal time listen I wish every defendant in this country could have equal time to prosecutors and bringing a case uh especially when in alleged crime has been committed it just does not happen that way and by the way the FBI doj they were working on these cases even as the January 6 committee organized and so while they did get maybe a head start with the help of the January 6 committee they still had to go back and double check check into some other facts there's still a lot of work in this case because of the sheer volume of evidence and then on top of that you have a thousand prosecutions arrest right you have all these cases and all these cases in a way mirror this case why do those people show up because president Trump told them to show up and this is what they told the jury this is what they told their defense attorneys these are some of the arguments that they were making and so during that time the FBI is gathering evidence from some of these people who are already on trial and building a case just as any corruption case progresses with the mob with any type of big figure who has a lot of money you take time with these cases you cannot and especially against a former president United States you can't just go to court with some flimsy allegation and that's why you have this 45-page document but as I told you before and what we've seen with these other cases there's always going to be something else that the special counsel will put out in court documents he won't say it they don't make a lot of statements but they'll put it in here and so this is just the beginning and when you hear Trump representatives and I get their strategy but their strategy right now is a political strategy that is not going to work meaning the Trump oh yeah and it's a good point because we already saw an additional count in the classified documents case where they put for the additional count on the Iran document so to your point this is just the beginning of what they had uh quickly an update from inside the courtroom just so everybody knows that Magistrate Judge has read the four charges to Trump and the penalties including the 20-year maximum sentence for the charge of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding and an obstruction of an official proceeding Trump remains looking at the judge as she slowly reads the charges and the max penalties Trump has been read his rights the right to remain silent Etc do you understand this sir Trump yes write to an attorney an appointment if you cannot afford do you understand that sir Trump yes I do the judge has then ordered the prosecutors to produce all exculpatory evidence to the defendant that's the latest update from inside the courtroom and he has pleaded not guilty I am told getting this in real time for you everybody real time of exactly what is happening inside um Trump said not guilty out loud in the court and that's the very latest information as we have uh Scott McFarland inside delivering this information to us in real time want to bring in Ricky cleeman and Scott Frederickson again and uh Ricky on those legal matters that we have been talking about does it matter how long the special counsel has taken when the Trump lawyers say it took too long or why they're bringing now what are they trying to suggest it doesn't matter well it doesn't matter in a court of law because it's not a legal defense it may matter in the court of public opinion because the political message from the defendant's side is that this is a weaponization of the justice department in order to thwart his candidacy but that has nothing to do with the courthouse and I agree with Jeff pagase 100 percent if you start with a complex conspiracy case you start at the bottom and you work your way up and that's exactly what I assume happened here I wanted to add one other point which I think is important although I do think it's in the public interest to have this trial televised I sat on the federal rules committee that was the advisory committee to the United States Supreme Court about Federal rules of criminal procedure and fight as mightily as I did for the idea of criminal cases being televised I was shot down I do not not believe that there is any way that a federal court will allow this to be televised even if both sides want it last Quick Point Nora of course Donald Trump appeared today in person he wants to show that he is unafraid that he is someone who does believe that this is to use his terms a political persecution so he was not going to sit at home and be on zoom and enter a plea of not guilty he wanted to Stand Tall so that we could talk about it and so that ultimately today he can fundraise off of this appearance Ricky cleeman thank you at this hour Donald Trump pleads not guilty to Federal conspiracy charges against him in this January 6th indictment that we just learned about this week our justice department producer Robert ligary has been delivering us these details and our correspondent Scott McFarland is inside there as well he's going to join us in just a moment with the very latest want to bring in in the meantime though Scott Frederickson and Scott on that note what do you think happens next tell us legally what happens next week and then when this may begin uh when the trial May begin the first thing we look for will be an order from Judge chutkin setting a status hearing um based on her reputation that you can expect that to happen fairly quickly she's going to take this case and schedule it and work through things in a no-nonsense matter she's a judge who is in complete control of the court of the courtroom she's very experienced she knows what she's doing so she'll move that along and so we'll hear about a trial date very early probably at that status hearing and that's going to be the first fight we we hear about and so that'll be the first ruling we'll look to is when judge chutkin schedules his trial as I said I think there's uh I'm probably a minority on this but I think there's a good chance she tries to move this into early next year to try and make this case the first case that comes up for trial if at all possible just because of the seriousness of the charges and Scott what's second look like a trial of the former president United States right here in Washington D.C how long will it take I mean I I'm just trying to imagine what this is going to be like yes it's almost something out of a novel but you know our courts especially in Washington are uh are built for this we have an experienced judge that's first and foremost and you know this case in some ways is a lot less complicated than the Mar-A-Lago case there are no classified documents it doesn't require defense counsel getting a you know a security uh clearance most of the evidence I suspect has already been out in the public thanks to the January 6 uh Congressional investigation indeed the complaint that you know why did it take uh so long it's an irony that the Attorney General Garland when he was confirmed he did not want to investigate the president just because he thought it was the appearances would look bad and so he deferred to the you know the January 6 investigation by the U.S attorney's Office in D.C but in the end I don't think this because comes that complicated a case we have high profile Witnesses obviously president Trump will be at the defense Council table but I think this case is capable of being tried in a a relatively reasonable time by that I mean we're probably talking at least a month at least a month the real point is when when can judge chutkin get this to a trial Scott Fredrickson thank you want to bring in Scott McFarland who has been watching those Court proceedings and can walk us through it he's made his way outside the courthouse now Scott tell us what it was like inside what was Donald Trump's demeanor Donald Trump leaned right into the microphone on the rectangular table in front of him and pleaded not guilty to these four felony counts accusing him of seeking to overturn the 2020 election which he lost the special prosecutor just said Nora they're not going to seek any Detention of Donald Trump or strict release conditions he's going to be released on a bond he doesn't actually have to post an assurity bond and there's going to be a requirement he not talked to known Witnesses in this case keeping in mind much of his inner circle could be Witnesses in this case the proceedings are really a garden variety set of proceedings in this Courthouse they do this a dozen times a day they read the charges they asked if he'd like them to read the full indictment all 45 pages he declined that they asked him if he needed a taxpayer-funded court-appointed lawyer he declined that he has his own counsel and a couple things jumped out of me just in his body language just like we saw in Manhattan a few months ago and in Miami earlier this summer he's kind of hunched over hands clapsed making no use of the pen and paper on the table in front of him occasionally Whispering with or hearing whispers from his attorneys on either side but this time Nora unlike the last two times he really was looking around the room at actively gazing at The Spectators keeping in mind Among The Spectators are some of the police officers who responded here on January 6th the special counseling itself Jack Smith's in the front row of the audience and five sets of rows of Spectators in the room and Trump was looking to see who was there he had two attorneys one on either side and he was facing what would be the jury box and in essence in between him and the jury box were the three prosecutors his left shoulder was pointed toward the judge the way this room is configured so he turned his body pivoted toward the judge again still hunched over again with his hands classed spoke in a moderate tone not terribly forceful not terribly loud he said he's not guilty and one distinctive thing but the judge asked in his name he said quote Donald J Trump John referencing the J and then when she asked his age he said seven seven not 77 he said seven seven this is going to wrap and he's going to exit the same way he came in through one of those secured underground garage entrances still not accessible to photos and when this all began Nora the judge kindly reminded everybody in the courtroom in the courthouse no phones no photos no taking any video today Scott McFarland you always do such an excellent job recapping what happened inside that courtroom thank you very much so now we have the former president of the United States pleading not guilty to these four counts against him we're going to have this hearing next week we're a trial date could be set and it could be as soon as well could be as soon as the end of this year or early next year and will set us up for really an extraordinary moment sometimes the details can tell you a lot Scott's excellent reporting in casting Trump is someone who's a bit relaxed almost in that courtroom based on that reporting saying his name age is seven seven it reminds me of my conversations with Trump over the years where he would talk about being familiar with the court system for five decades now going back to his time in New York when a character like Roy Cohn very controversial lawyer was his top advisor helping him navigate the thicket of legal and political and real estate worlds inside of New York City crossing over from Queens into Manhattan and this is someone who oftentimes has this attitude when he faces crisis I interviewed Trump the day after Access Hollywood and I said everyone else around you is panicking telling you should maybe think about quitting the race and he said to me I'll never forget he said don't you know what I've been through I've seen everything this is nothing you don't understand me you don't understand life I've seen it all and well he's seen it all today but he hasn't this is nowhere near an Access Hollywood tape I mean this is yeah this is different this is quite different this is every year but what you're putting your finger on is that this has become routine for him and usually when something comes routine it's because we've you know we've seen it a lot but the fact that this is routine is what's extraordinary is that we it's routine because it's been three times that he's been arraigned now and that's to be comfortable to have it happen to you so many times that you start to get comfortable with it is we're not just in New Territory we are acres deep into new territory I want to bring in Mark short who is the senior advisor to Mike Pence in just a second because we are in the midst of a presidential election and Donald Trump is leading the polls by a wide margin uh the former vice president's name or the office of the vice presidency has mentioned some 100 times in this indictment and yesterday we heard from the former vice president and he gave one of his strongest criticisms yet of Mr Trump during a campaign stop in Indianapolis let's listen I want the American people to know that I had no right to overturn the election and then on that day president Trump asked me to put him over the Constitution but I chose the Constitution and I always will sadly the president was surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear and while I made my case to him but what I understood my oath of the Constitution to require the president ultimately ultimately you know continue to demand that I choose him over the Constitution our country is more important than any one man our constitution is more important than any one man's career joining us now is Mark short senior advisor for former vice president Pence mark thank you so much for joining us and good to see you um Mark what's your understanding of how many notes uh the former vice president had and was able to provide to the special counsel Nora thanks for having me I think is you can imagine the vice president of the United States is a demanding role whereas a lot of information Flows In from a lot of different things from National Security issues to Leading the coveted task force to handling legislation and so it was his tendency to keep contemporaneous notes but I don't I think that the the vast majority of those are things that honestly were reflected in his book I think that the chapters that go back to the events surrounding January 6th leaned heavily on those notes and so I'm not sure there was so much new in the indictment that hadn't already been shared with the American people did the former vice president know and did he also believe that Donald Trump knew that he lost the election I I don't know that uh Donald Trump ever said to the vice president or certainly when I was in their surroundings that he felt he had lost that election I don't know honestly Nora to the extent to which the president's actions are necessarily were criminal I do know they were wrong and I do know that he violated his oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States I do know he asked the vice president very specifically to violate his oath to the Constitution and I think that you know at this point the prosecution probably has plenty of witnesses from the campaign who testified they informed the president that he had lost that any evidence of fraud was insignificant it would not have changed any of the results I think you probably have other witnesses that have testified that from the legal counsel in the White House they informed the president that the vice president had no such Authority and you know one person that I think is certainly not mentioned the indictment but was in many cases the ringleader the organization of this in the White House is Mark Meadows and so I certainly believe he probably has testified extensively as well about the president's thoughts and what the president knew at this point and so I don't know again to what extent these actions will will bear out to be criminal but I I do know that they're wrong and I do know that the vice president upheld his oath that day I know the vice president has spoke to this in the past but I want to ask you today would he be willing to testify against Donald Trump at a trial well I I don't know about answering that hypothetical now nor I think that much about the Dynamics between the president vice president played out very publicly it seems that much of the uncertain part of this is the conspiracy is to as to what he knew and didn't know and and whether or not the vice president's called to testify I think you know he always has followed the law and so would presumably do so in this case but uh but no indication of that at this point we talked about earlier some of the phone calls and the contemporaneous notes that Mike Pence has provided to the special counsel including from a phone call on New Year's Day where Donald Trump berated Mike Pence asking him to overturn the election and Mike Pence replied he didn't have the authority to return or reject votes and Trump told him you're too honest Nancy Cordes has provided us with a picture of the merch that your campaign is now selling that says too honest on t-shirts and hats how is that merch selling well nor I think that in the last couple days the vice president has received an enormous amount of support and thousands of additional uh donations and I think that um you know I think what's fundamentally to your question is something important about you know overturning versus uh sending it back because I think that that is part of the that's the narrow that's been out there by the president's lawyers about just sending it back I think it's important for your viewers to know that the request all along was for the vice president simply to reject state selectors it was to overturn the election in fact Donald Trump even said so prior to the former vice president's speech the Federalist Society a couple years ago he'd asked the vice president overturn the election I think in later time they believe the pr of saying simply send it back to the state sounded better and that was something that they turned to in the last 36 hours and there's even notes from John mcentee in the White House saying since Pence won't go along with the overturning election let's pivot to this Theory and that theory really is one that has the same ultimate end because the notion was was if somehow something could be returned which the vice president doesn't have that Authority and no vice president 250 years has Nord Republicans want Kamala Harris to have that Authority but hypothetically if it did the idea was you get below the 270 threshold in electoral college and it Returns the House of Representatives to get a different result on the election and so it sounds nicer but ultimately the impact would have been the same Mark short a senior advisor to vice president Mike Pence is former Chief of Staff Mark thank you so much for joining us thanks for having me and we are being told uh that the proceeding has ended inside that Courthouse we will likely see Donald Trump escorted out at some point we could hear um from the former president at some point this afternoon it's unclear what time but we are being told that he may speak before cameras at the airport before returning back to his Club in Bedminster a New Jersey um Nancy I want to talk to you about this because it is extraordinary in this indictment the details and the evidence but also the contemporaneous notes as we've noted that are made by Mike Pence that the special counsel uses as evidence right and it wasn't just Mike Pence there are so many people who were in the president's orbit who also relayed what he told them and something that we haven't really discussed much yet is the fact that according to the January 6 committee and the indictment touches on it as well this actually started not on Election Day but well before election day much to the frustration of Republican leaders around the country the former president he could see the polls and he started to say things like well if I lose it's because the election was rigged and he started telling some of his supporters don't use mail-in ballots because those are rigged and you had so many republican leaders saying to him please don't say that to our supporters Republicans historically vote in larger numbers than Democrats using mail-in ballots if they don't think those ballots are safe that's going to depress our mail-in ballot voting and there's a good evidence that that is exactly what happened but the case that um that this indictment makes and certainly the case that January 6 committee made was that he started laying the groundwork to make this argument months before the first vote was even cast and just to remind everyone that Donald Trump lost by a fairly wide margin to Joe Biden it was 74 electoral votes and he lost the popular vote by 7 million votes and Mark short who just spoke with CBS News is a crucial figure in this story Mark short was present when the Trump campaign the night before the Insurrection issued a public statement saying Mike Pence agrees with everything Donald Trump is saying about this election and based on our reporting and we believe the special counsel has the same information short erupted how can the president of the United States speak for the vice president and lie about him publicly but Boris Epstein and Rudy Giuliani and so many others close to Trump were still trying to go maybe even over to Pence's home at the Naval Observatory to try to get him to come along one of Pence's advisors Marty Oaks remarked to others it almost felt at that moment like a bad Mafia movie we were being hustled we were being pushed around and Mark short was there telling Pence hold the line and Pence agreed was short but it was a pressure cooker of a moment think about this story on January 4th 2021 Donald Trump is supposed to get on Marine One his helicopter but he doesn't want to get on it just yet he wants to call pent to the White House so Marine one is whirring around on January 4th for a long time and Trump calls Pence into the Oval Office and confronts him once again and short is in the room who you just spoke with with Pence As Trump says I'm not going to get on that helicopter until you agree with me that you're going to do what I want on January 6 in Pence pleads with Trump I'm trying to do what I I can I'm listening to my lawyers and Trump says do what I want and then he goes to Georgia that night and he says publicly Mike you better do what I'm telling you to do and Pence and his advisors are watching that night on January 4th after that conversation in the Oval Office which we can see on our screen and they're saying to themselves what have we gotten ourselves into and now we know in the eyes of the special counsel a possible criminal conspiracy it's kind of breathtaking when you describe it in all of the details it's incredibly breathtaking in the pressure campaign as you noted and just a tiny little textual thing for Mike Pence who kept an Open Bible on his desk that itching ears comes from Timothy he to himself teachers in accordance with his own lusts basically that's the scene you're describing is surrounding himself with people who would only tell him what he wanted to hear and for Mike Pence when Trump goes to him on January 5th he says Mike if the mob outside wanted you to do this wouldn't you want to do it wouldn't you want to do it because and then Trump famously this has been confirmed by testimony before the January 6 committee Trump opens the door to the Oval Office on a freezing cold night so he can hear the mob outside on Freedom Plaza they're playing songs I was actually walking around that night with a notebook in hand I remember a few things rats were in the streets cops were everywhere proud boys and Oath Keepers and nobody else because it was the pandemic nobody was in Washington D.C except those planning and insurrection but even I know I look back I could have never imagined what would happen the next day it seemed impossible in our political and legal imagination that this kind of thing could happen in this country I just never would have imagined even seeing the proud Boys in front of me and and you know even as it was unfolding we kind of couldn't believe it I mean the fact that the capital itself was being breached we were live on the air for nine ten hours straight watching it unfold in in a way that is still hard to believe even now having watched the January 6 hearings and read this indictment I want to bring in Scott McFarland because he is outside the courtroom and has a little bit more details about what was this 27 minute long proceeding is that right Scott and what happened and what's happening there right now and North the judge kept Trump waiting he was sitting idle in his seat for about 20 minutes because the proceedings began late and the Trump defense team before this hearing just wrapped it's already begun the process of seeking to delay the case the judge gave him three choices for the next court appearance August 21st August 22nd August 28th the Trump team promptly responded August 28th and then the defense attorney for Donald Trump told the judge they may need more time they may need to waive some of these speedy trial rights they have because they have to review all the evidence in the case in a case where timing is everything less than six months before the Iowa caucuses on the eve of this enormous 2024 campaign season a former president who's also the front runner for his party's nomination is now to a degree fighting the clock and so are prosecutors in all three cases the real timing in this case ultimately will be up to the U.S District Judge who gets this case next beginning August 28th that's Judge Tanya I got to tell you though standing here at this moment the residence of January 6th can be felt we're surrounded by police bike rack barricades the same ones that were toppled down the street January 6th some of the Capitol police officers there that they were in the courtroom and on the other side of this camera lens you can see the U.S Capitol this case is just going to be different Nora it's going to land different with some number of Americans Scott McFarland who has covered so many of those January 6 trials and kept track of them if you follow his Twitter feed and Reporting here for CBS News it has been detailed unlike anybody else really has done such extraordinary reporting Scott thank you we want to show you this is the Trump motorcade as they have left the courthouse in downtown Washington not far from the U.S Capitol the intersection of Constitution and Pennsylvania Avenue going through the E Street tunnel if my if my directions are correct I think that's and then on his way back to the airport where he will then return to Bedminster it's not clear yet although we could hear from Donald Trump you know we were thinking about just as this next appearance is August 28th and then a potential trial who is Trump's legal team he has been through so many lawyers including Tim parlatore who heard for from earlier who was making some specious arguments but um who is this team and and how will they handle sort of the weight I mean don't you neatly need a whole group of people to deal with charges like this you usually need a whole Law Firm you usually would get a law firm but that's not happening here most law firms have looked at this situation with the former president facing criminal conspiracy charges a New York hush money case Mar-A-Lago documents Casey and the Georgia case that's upcoming with a charging decision and said no thanks Todd Blanche who's leading the legal effort for Trump right now he left his law firm and he's at the helm at the moment he's working with John lauro who has been on CBS in recent days and their the point people Evan corcoran's in an awkward position because he's one of Trump's lead attorneys on January 6 but he's also part of the Mar-A-Lago investigation as a witness so the special counsel has forced Corcoran to leave Trump representation on Mar-A-Lago because he was involved with how the documents were signed with the FBI and the National Archives yet corcoran's still there today in Washington with Trump on January 6th when I've asked sources close to Trump's legal team is a law firm in the often could someone be coming on they say no this is a limited team and they're going to focus on the political message as much as the legal message well that's the because that's easier too because think about it just in this case the January 6 committee report was 800 Pages this is 45 pages this indictment but think about getting your head around 800 pages and then all the secondary material if you're trying to match a mount a defense and that's just one of the four and you could argue there are even more cases if you talk about some other civil cases but that's just one of the four uh challenges for these lawyers this if you really want to boil down their strategy to one thing is if convicted appeal all the way to a supreme court they believe is conservative and might rule in their favor on issues like speech and advice of counsel I mean don't you need the best lawyers in the country in order to defend yourself yeah something like this that's what I find so interesting about your reporting Bob when when you've been talking to sources about this to these large law firms not want to take the case because they're worried it will scare other big money clients off or because they've seen what happens to Trump lawyers they end up getting into trouble themselves well look at how Nora so aptly introduced Timothy parlatore she said in her introduction that he left counsel his work as counsel for Trump because of disagreements with Boris Epstein who's a trump lawyer and political advisor Trump's Inner Circle he may also be the unknown co-conception right because Boris Epstein I know there are a lot of names here it's like Watergate all these different currents of information and different a tree of people but Epstein was close to Giuliani Epstein's also someone who's always telling Trump based on what we've learned what he wants to hear and there's a real division in Trump's legal team about Happy Talk versus Frank talk and when to be political and when to be focused on the legal breast tax former Attorney General Bill Barr was asked about what these lawyers working for the former president should do and he said get a lot of insurance because the president has churned through lawyers and then also people who've been close to him and he always learned turns to outside lawyers why did John Eastman and Sidney Powell become part of the Inner Circle because they told Trump what he wanted to hear this is such a momentous day and yet it may not be the last indictment of Donald Trump because we are awaiting news from Georgia and that's where Nicole Killian is for us today and Nicole what's the very latest from there well we are nearing the end of a two and a half year investigation and we know this not because of the dark clouds that may be hanging over the courthouse but more specifically because earlier this afternoon we got some guidance from The Fulton County Sheriff's Office announcing road closures around the courthouse beginning Monday for the next two weeks and that is the tentative window that we expect Fulton County district attorney Bonnie Willis to present evidence to a grand jury and ultimately to announce a charging decision in her investigation into election interference during the 2020 election so some overlap to a certain extent with this federal case in terms of some of the facts of course at the centerpiece of this investigation is that Infamous call that the former president made to Secretary of State Brad raffensberger saying find me the 11 and 780 votes in fact we heard from the Secretary of State earlier this week here in Georgia after this indictment was announced in Washington he said that this was expected he continued to defend his actions as well saying that we ran the traps on all of these a false election claims and so it's important to note because raffensberger not only talked to Federal prosecutors but also was a key witness here in this Fulton County investigation which heard from some 75 Witnesses including many members of the former president's Inner Circle so a lot of attention will be here on Georgia in the next couple of weeks the district attorney has made clear that she is ready to go north coal killing with that new reporting there from Georgia about what may be happening as soon as next week and yet Nancy Cordes as we heard that the thought and I used the mountain of evidence but I'm thinking it's like a tsunami of evidence and these cases and that's facing Donald Trump there was an extraordinary meeting between President Obama and President Biden recently in which Obama had a warning for Biden what have you learned about that meeting well I've learned that this was a lunch that took place in June we knew about the lunch and the fact that it was taking place at the time but it has since been reported that uh former president Obama warned the current President Joe Biden don't take Donald Trump for granted he's still a very formidable opponent obviously his supporters are extremely loyal to him obviously they're still willing to give him money even though millions of those dollars are clearly going directly not to campaigning but to his defense and he he urged him not to uh you know to take it very seriously and told him that he would do everything that he could to uh to help him out some important contacts just as people think that this may be so many legal troubles that Donald trumpers and even the Democrats and what President Obama believe that Trump is formidable as a republican nominee and and Robert in this indictment of course there are the six co-conspirators what do we know about them how could they figure in a in a potential trial here's what CBS News is learning about these alleged co-conspirators of trump these were Central figures orbiting around Trump in the final days of the administration you have Rudy Giuliani who took over the legal strategy in the days after the election collected affidavits tried to fight it in the courts then pressured election officials in the states to do Trump's bidding John Eastman comes up with the plan to have Mike Mike Pence walk away from the lectern on January 6 and set into motion a constitutional crisis Sydney Powell was arguing that Trump should seize voting machines based on alleged conspiracy theories about forward interference in the election that have never been proven in any way then you had Jeffrey Clark who Trump wanted to name acting attorney general after Bill Barr resigned in December of 2020 Clark was someone who Trump believed could take a tighter grip over the justice department and potentially provide him with the fodder he needed for to put the doj into action to do what he wanted then you had Ken chesborough who wrote a memo similar to Eastman arguing that alternate electors should be selected in the states and come to Washington to enable Trump to have that election in the house as we've discussed in the the final co-conspirator We Believe could be Boris Epstein who we discussed who was working closely with Giuliani at the Willard Hotel on January 5th helping Giuliani at every turn with the alternate electors based on our reporting or it could be Mike Roman a trump campaign lawyer who was also enmeshed and intertwined with what was going on with the alternate elector scheme we're learning more but just because their co-conspirators doesn't mean they're going to be indicted it also means they could be indicted and they're not just six people what we're learning from the special counsel and our sources close to it there will likely be more who come forward in the coming weeks in terms of legal filings as Jeff has discussed there could be more to come and as we wrap up our coverage and see the president arriving now at Reagan Airport to depart back home John Dickerson um that today is just the beginning and I just keep thinking of it as the first step and covering this trial will be like anything I've ever done in my my political reporting career because it won't just be the attorneys who have to jump from trial to trial I mean this date on the 28th coincides there's another date in the Florida case on the 25th the coverage of all these different cases will be happening uh simultaneously and also we've been talking about the campaign calendar there's also the jury box of the electorate out there the president is asking that the behavior as detailed in this indictment and his rebuttals against that detail that he be ratified and re-elected by the public for the way he behaved that's another element of this and that's not a the burden of proof there is up for grabs but that's kind of the the fifth event or sixth event in addition to all of these trials today we witnessed former president Donald Trump arraigned here in Washington in a federal courthouse on four counts related to his attempts to overturn the 2020 election one of the central figures and possible Witnesses in the special counsel's case is former vice president Mike Pence and the former vice president will be a guest on this Sunday's Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan our coverage will continue on CBS News streaming your local news and we're going to have a full wrap up tonight on the CBS Evening News this has been a CBS News special report I'm Nora O'Donnell in Washington foreign [Music] hello I'm Caitlin Huey Burns in Washington thanks for joining us you're going to see a live look right now at former president Trump's motorcade he's expected to make a statement and we will bring that to you

Channel: Face the Nation

Views: 39,019

Keywords: face the nation, live, live news, livestream, cbs news, news, politics, Donald trump, former president trump, trump, special counsel, jack smith, 2020 election, 2020 presidential election

Id: ZbFCmMmttYs

Length: 104min 55sec (6295 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 03 2023