<i> This is</i> Couples Court
with the Cutlers. This is the case if
Pinner vs. Martin. Y'all have been in a
long term relationship Are engaged to be married
later this month. Mr. Pinner, why have you brought
your fiance here to our court? Well, Your Honors, I originally
brought my fiance
beneath the court because I believe
she's cheating on me. You know, there's been a lot of
strange things going on. I'm finding random text messages
in her phone
from random numbers. She doesn't come home at night.
Four, five, six in the morning,
she might show up. It's like the trust is almost
gone, in the relationship.
Period. If you find out she cheating,
then what? If it comes out that she's lying
and she's cheating... I'm about to go.
I'm about to pack my bags. Then the "mac" is back. (AUDIENCE WOOTING) "The mac is back"? (CLEARS THROAT) DANA: Ms. Martin, what are you
here to prove? I'm here to prove I'm not
cheating. Rommel is crazy. Like, he's going through
my clothes, my phone, my purse. It has to stop. So, what's it like
in terms of the strain
on your relationship to have someone accuse you of cheating
and just not trusting you? It's hard,
'cause I love
this person. If I didn't him,
I wouldn't be marrying him. I don't come home 'cause
I work a lot.
And when I do work, sometimes I do go out
with co-workers, but, he's on my back to the point,
he's driving me crazy. It's just like, we were
best friends and now we're...
the best enemies. You know, it's the trust issues. She went out and came
at four in the morning. And I'm like, "Okay,
where you been at?" She's like, "I'm out with
my friends, came late, out
on the couch." So, "Why ain't you coming and
getting in a the bed with me?" She's like, "I just wanna
lay down here on the couch
and relax. And I found that kinda strange,
you know. Ms. Martin, you can home at
four in the morning? Yes, ma'am. Where had you been? I work 12 hour shift
every other day and one night I decide to go
with a couple of girlfriends
to have a few drinks... Of course I had 'em
but when I came in, my first reaction wasn't
to go run to the bedroom. I sad down on the couch
and was tired. I went straight to sleep. So, she came home,
it was late, who among us, hasn't crashed on the couch
at one point or the other? Right. But, that's not
the only thing. As I try to pull her close
to me, I said, "Baby, come here" I smelled something.
I said, "It smells like
latex in here." He has lost his mind.
He has lost his mind. She's trying to...
she's pulling away from me. DANA: Okay... And at that point right there,
and I'm like, "Oh, hold on
a second." You know, I know what you
been doing, you been out
on these streets. Okay, wait.
Where did you smell latex. In the air... (STUTTERS) As she was pulling away,
I was like what's that smell? BOTH CUTLERS: Okay Your Honor... Did you smell like latex? I work in a nursing home.
I wear gloves,
like, what do you mean? You just came from bar. I went straight from work
to there. You came from a bar with
rubber gloves on you hand. No, sir. I did not Were you about to
rob somebody? Man! Whatever! You work at a nursing home. Yes, ma'am. Have you ever
smelled latex on her before? No. Never. Are you crazy? Never. Never smelled
latex on her before. Was there anything else
about this particular incident that had you concerned
besides the latex smell. I mean, just the way
she pulled away from me. But, to add, my mom always told me
never go in a woman's purse
because she might have a snake in it,
you might get bit. But, I didn't listen.
I didn't listen,
I got bit. If you go in... Is that why you told me not to
go in your purse all these years
'cause you had a snake in there? I won't say I have a snake in
there but if you go in there
and you not supposed to, something will bite you. (AUDIENCE CLAPPING, CHEERING) All right. So, did you
get bit, Yeah, I got bit. for going in her purse. 'Cause I found
a condom in there. (CROWD GASPING)
I can explain that. Now, mind you, we have children together. We haven't been wearing
no condoms and it was an extra "smedium"
and I don't wear that size. (WOMEN LAUGHING) BOTH CUTLERS: A what? A extra "smedium" KEITH: An extra smedium? Extra smedium! What is a extra smedium? Yeah, small and medium
at the same time. Oh, my god! Okay, so small and medium, At the same time. and that's your smedium. Smedium. An d you say, you don't wear... I don't wear those. You don wear those.
That's not your size? That ain't my size. That's not how you roll? I ain't rolling like that. So... DANA: How did he find
an extra "smedium"
in your purse? Because Rommel goes through
everything I own. Like, if I have a new purse,
old purse, it don't matter what
it is, he's gonna go through it. The purse was old.
I happen to switch purses
'cause my other purse had a hole in it
and I was loosing stuff. He goes through it, finds it. Automatically, "Oh my god!
You're sleeping with it!" How do I have the time
to sleep with anybody? And when I come home, he wants
to be all affectionate from
screaming at me every other hour Why do I want to show affection? My co-workers can hear him talk
from over there,
screaming at me. Okay, so here's the thing. It's like that country song. Uh-oh. Yeah, you know, "It's hard to kiss the lips
at night when you been chewing
your butt out all day." What country song is that? Oh yeah.
You never heard that? That's by the,
Notorious Cherry Bombs. Are you serious? Yeah. "It's hard to kiss the lips
at night when you been chewing
your butt out all day." DANA: Oh my god. Okay. Here's my question. Yes, ma'am. How old is this purse because
you've been with this man,
seven years? Yes. It was old, like we just... DANA: So, it's predated
you dating him? Yeah, I went through
a box of old stuff. All right, I'm gonna take this,
this gonna be my work purse, I'm not gonna buy
no other purse for work. And then as he goes through it,
automatically I'm this I'm that. "You're sleeping with him.
That. That..." What? But Ms. Martin, the reality is, you can understand why... Yeah, I can. Mr. Pinner's like, hold up. Yes, ma'am. Mr. Pinner, has she cheated
in the past that's made you feel
that way you feel? Yes, Your Honor,
she cheated in the past. She had this real big party. So a month later,
she comes to me, she like
you know, I'm pregnant. Shortly after that, she says, that night I had sex
with somebody
and I didn't use protection. I don't even know
the guy's name. (CROWN GROANING) Did you in fact step out on him
that one night? Yes, but he said,
he's telling you guys
that we were separated. Rommel was moved outta my house.
We were broken up. But when I did do this, I went directly to him
and I told him the truth. And then he was tore up about it
and he wanted to continue
the relationship. So we worked through it
and we found out our daughter
was his. And then, everything was fine
up until here recently. Okay, what has triggered
this move to distrust? What it is, is the sneakiness. It's the fact that your not
where you're supposed to be.
I called your job, and I say, "Is Brittany there?
I would like to speak to her." Um, well no, she wsn't scheduled
to work for today. "Well, where are you?
Where you at?" I looking for you.
Now I'm getting more suspicious. So how many times did
that happen? Where you
call the job and they don't you she wasn't
scheduled to work that day. It at least happened about
four, five times.
Either she's not there, or she left early. BRITTANY: ...it has not Okay, so Ms. Martin,
why were you not there? Because I cannot get
any breathing room from Rommel. When I'm at home he's screaming,
when I go to work,
he's screaming. I will tell him I'm going
to work and I will go to
my mother's house and sit. Because just to collect myself
from all the ranting and raving. I cannot catch a break,
he's driving me crazy. All right. So, Mr. Pinner,
are you hawking her? All day, everyday. No, I'm not hawking her. But I do want to know the truth,
I don't want to be made out
a fool. If I'm about to get married,
I'd be worried about her. Do you at least see how she
feels that you're hawking her
all day long, everyday. Yeah, I understand that.
Yes, sir, I understand that. But she created it. BRITTANY: Your Honor... Two wrongs don't make a right. No, it doesn't. I made one mistake. I've owned
up to it, I've apologized for it
I've jumped through hoops, <i> but I wouldn't be here
if I didn't love that man.</i> <i> I wanna marry him.
We got two children.</i> <i>I'm not lying about anything.</i> Mr. Pinner, what other evidence
you have that she's cheating? Okay, Your Honor,
I had a birthday party, and we were having fun.
I was dancing, kickin' it. She said, "I'm ready to go."
So, I said, "Okay, fine."
So I take her to the car. So, I say, gimme five minutes,
let me go handle something
and come right back. So it took me five minutes, came
right back and she was gone. I didn't. I go home, sit there
two hours, come by after I called her
I go into voicemail.
Two hours come by, She come through the door,
"Oh, why did you leave me? "My sister had to
bring me home." I'm like, what, lip, leave? I told you
give me five minutes. "No, you was
in there 30 minutes."
I'm like, "Okay, "let's not argue, it's my
birthday, I'll let you have that
one. I'm sorry if I left you. "Come here baby,
I want some birthday sex." Were you at least a little
smoother than that? BRITTANY: No. No. You would just come out like,
"Hey, I want some birthday sex!" No, no, I didn't say it
in those words. 'Cause that's what...
that's what basically... 'Cause I don't think that works. It doesn't work. It doesn't? Okay. No, sir, I did not
say it like that. The very next day,
I went to the phone,
I was trolling, I'm so sorry, but I looked and it said,
"I had fun the other night." Co-worker. Uh-oh. "Who is this?" She said, oh, it was just one
of my co-workers. The other night was
my birthday night. Ms. Martin, tell me
what happened
the birthday night. Okay. Toward the end of
the night, I'm like, "Rommel,
I'm ready to go "I'm sick,
I don't feel good." And this is what he says,
"Gimme five minutes, let me
collet my birthday money "and we gonna go home." I sat in that car
for almost 40 minutes. So, I was like, forget it,
he gonna stay in there and keep
partying, I gotta go home. My sister pulls up,
she was like, "Okay, "I'll take you with me.
I gotta make a stop
but I'll drop you off." And as I'm pulling
into where we live, Rommel is standing outside,
like over the balcony, "Where have you been?
What are you doing?" and I'm like, "I rode with
my sister, she picked me up cause you took 40 minutes
to even get me home." Okay, what other reason
do you have to believe that Ms. Martin is
cheating on you? She's in and out of nowhere
with extra money. Now we never hide our financials
from each other. We always know what we have,
because just to be honest. So nobody have no ill feelings. And of late she's been
coming up with extra money outta no where.
She has $100 here, that she didn't...
I'm like, "Man, where did that
come from?" 'Cause I have bonus checks
that I don't even tell him
about because he will take. Oh, for reals... That he will take. He takes my money and does
whatever he wants with it. The bonus checks that I get
in-between, that goes into
my saving account. Ms. Martin, he started
his comment by saying, we share our finances,
we tell each other everything so we don't have any issues. And now you're saying,
I don't really share
everything. Not that I don't
I didn't share that, All right. So we've got these allegations
that ypou've made against
your fiance. and you said that,
this relationship, depending on what happens today,
is on the line. Yes, sir. I always go with
my gut. My gut never lies to me. I believe it's not
lying to me now. KEITH: All right, to get
to the bottom of this, the court has ordered
a polygraph test for Ms. Martin. Ron, would please escort into
the courtroom, our licensed
private investigator, and polygraph examiner,
Mr. Kendall Schulz. RON: Yes, Your Honor. (APPLAUDING) Mr. Schulz,
how are you today? Good, Your Honor,
and how are you? We're doing good.
It's good to see you. Now, you had a polygraph
examination performed on
Ms. Martin. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. You asked Ms. Martin, "On the night you came home
at 4 a.m., "did you have
sexual contact with anyone "other than Mr. Pinner?" What was her response
to that question? Her response was, "No". What did the
lie detector determine? The lie detector determined
that she was being... truthful. (AUDIENCE APPLAUD) I'm sorry. I'm sorry. DANA: We have other questions. Ms. Martin was asked,
"On the night of
Mr. Pinner's birthday party, "did you have sexual contact
with anyone "other than Mr. Pinner?"
What was Ms. Martin's response. She said, "No". What did the
lie detector determine? The lie detector determined
that she was being... truthful. How are you feeling? I'm relieved that he knows
but it took all of this
to get here. It's just hurtful. DANA: And there was
one last question. "Since the birth
of your first child, have you had sexual contact with
anyone other than Mr. Pinner?" What was Ms. Martin's response? Her response was, "No". What did the lie detector
determine? First of all our honor,
I would like to say... First of all our honor,
I would like to say that
I made it clear to her, prior to asking this question. That we not talking about
the man that she was involved in that required them to come
to paternity court earlier. DANA: Okay. But after I made that clear
to her and asked the question, the lie detector determined
that she was being... deceptive. I knew it. But you knew that...
No. No. I knew that. He's knows
He been told,
he know about this. No. No, no, no. You knew about the text message.
Yes, you did. No, I didn't know about this. Yes, you did. KEITH: Ms. Martin, DANA: Wait, hold on... What was it
that he knew about? He went through my phone at
the time we was having trouble and I was engaged in
text messaging someone. Which he knew this person
'cause the name was there, and he went through my Facebook,
and I even showed him. So, he knows
who this person is. Nothing went past that
beside the texting. And the hug which
he knew about. Mr. Schulz, sexual contact
in this context, was that explained
to Ms. Martin? Yes, it was, Your Honor.
Sexual contact can be any physical touching,
any groping... But it can also include
sexting as we call it. Messages, pictures
or whatever. And what you're saying to us,
today, that you actually were
sexting with a gentleman? Yes, and he know about it.
He's seen every message
for message. DANA: Again, if he told you
it might include sexting, why did you say no? I don't know. Mr. Pinner, did you know
about this incidence
that she referred to? No, I did not. Yes, you know his name. KEITH: Ms. Martin, hold on. Yes, sir. I did not know
anything about that. But here's the thing
Ms. Martin, Yes, ma'am. You can't have a trail of lies, and expect him to believe you. KEITH: And if you wanna go down
the isle together, y'all have got to work on
your trust issues,
from both sides. Mr. Pinner, you came here
for some facts,
for some answers, and you've gotten them. What is your decision
about this relationship? Y'all are supposed to be
getting married
by the end of this month. I know I said earlier that,
I was gone, but... everybody makes mistakes,
I'm not perfect myself. And I think we might be able
to work it out. (APPLAUDING) You are married,
been together 14 years. You have a family. But cheatin' allegations
have caused you, Mrs. Donnell, to seek information
regarding a divorce from Mr. Starks. Yes, Your Honor. Tell me about why
you've opened your case. Two years ago,
we got into
an argument and he
left that night. When he left, he
was down the street with a friend. And the next morning
when he comes home and he's explaining
what happened that night, he told me, "When I
talk to her, "don't believe
whatever she tells me." (AUDIENCE MURMURING) And since then,
I've just... It's little things
that make me feel like he's cheating
with my friend. STARKS: The situation
she's talkin' about, I, uh... I did leave. The young lady
that she's pertaining to was down the hill. Her cousin gave me a ride
to my mother's house. That's the only contact
I've had with that woman in 14 years. But you knew
something was
gonna pop off, that's why you went
back home and said, "Whatever you hear,
don't believe her." Now, hold on, Your Honor.
That's what she said. JUDGE KEITH: You deny
that, that... I do not recollect
saying anything like that. So, what are you
here to prove today? STARKS: I'm here to prove
that I love my wife, I'm here for her. And that I'm
not a cheater. I believe in
Jesus Christ, I got married
one time, and I'm not
a cheater. And I'm
standin' on that. JUDGE KEITH: Bottom line. Ain't no more lines. All right. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) But it is
my understanding,
Mrs. Donnell that you have
gone to see
a divorce attorney. Yes, ma'am,
I've seen lawyers. I've talked
to everybody
that I need, so if this doesn't work,
if he's cheatin' on me, then, I got my foot
out the door,
I'm ready to go. You're serious
about this! DONNELL: Yes, I do
love my husband. I really want
our marriage to work. I got married one time, I don't want to
get a divorce, either but I don't want him
to be cheatin'
on me, as well. So why do you
believe he's
cheatin' right now? Well, we've
had incidents. I do have evidence,
if I could give it to you. All right, Ron. Would you take that
from Mrs. Donnell? Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, ma'am. JUDGE KEITH: All right. So, tell us what
we're lookin' at. DONNELL: Um, well,
one day he told me that he was
goin' to work. And later on that day, I was looking
at our GPS. It's kinda together
on the phone. And it showed
that he was at a hotel from 8:00 to 11:47. And he tells me that
he was just driving
through the parking lot. But I don't know
no parking lots
three hours big. Okay, so at 8:07,
he tells you,
he's going to work, DONNELL: Yeah,
he's supposed
to be at work. And you find on the GPS
that it's at a hotel. Yes, ma'am. JUDGE DANA: And he's
at the hotel
from 8:07 to 11:46? Yes, ma'am. And it's your understanding
that he was supposed
to be at work. Yes. Okay, were you at work? Or were you
at the hotel? Ma'am, I work
in a moving industry. So, I usually
meet my boss wherever closer
we're gonna go
because he drives me. I have no licence. Okay. STARKS: So, the job
we did that day was at a place
adjacent to a hotel. So, if I'm in the same
parking lot as the hotel, her GPS, I guess,
picks up wherever I'm at. So, I'm sayin' I ain't never
been nowhere with no woman in a hotel or
outside of a hotel, in backcar seat,
since I've been
with my wife. I ain't been nowhere
with no woman in hotels. But if you were
gonna meet your boss
and go to work, why does he have you there
just for three hours? No, I was at work all day. I don't understand... What we gotta do
is probably
call the GPS company and figure that out. So, you're saying your job,
your moving job that day was adjacent
to the hotel Just like that. and that's why
it was pinging. The only reason. And Mrs. Donnell,
you don't
believe that? DONNELL: No, sir. Also, that same day
he called co-workers that he was
supposed to be with. If you at work
with the co-workers, what do you need
to call them for? It would be like me
calling Mr. Cutler. We sittin' here
on the bench together. STARKS: No. All right. And all of this has
led you to believe, "Okay, he was
meeting somebody
at that hotel." Yes, sir. And he was having
sex with that person. DONNELL: That's
what I believe. Oh, my God.
Here's what I know. The reason I called
my co-worker is because
I'm movin'. We have
a elevator. If the elevator
gets stuck, or if I'm
in the elevator, who're you
gonna call? You got me? Mr. Starks,
you got an answer
for everything. It seems
like you've got
it lined up. You've got
an answer
for everything. Because I'm
the one living this. I work everyday. JUDGE DANA:
What is it like
living like this? Terrible.
It's stressful. In the last
maybe seven months,
I've lost 15 pounds. Because of this. Because of a lie. Have you told her
about the stress
in this relationship? STARKS: For 14 years. JUDGE DANA: You
been livin' this... I been accused
of cheating
since 2010. JUDGE KEITH: But have you
told her about what
this stress is doing to you? Every day.
She should see it.
That's my wife. Oh, I see, but he don't see
the stress that he
causes our whole house. <i> Um, he's just
stuck on him.</i> <i> You know, he's
not really open to
other people's feelings,</i> to how we feel
about the situation. Mr. Starks,
do you understand
that she's under stress? Has she talked
to you about that? STARKS: Yes. I truly
believe that. I truly believe that.
That's why I'm here. JUDGE DANA: What is
your reaction to that? STARKS: My reaction
is, I'm here. I've been the same person
since I've met my wife. I've never, well... There's been
a situation
in 2004 or 2005, where I cheated
on my wife. We were
dating, then. You were dating? STARKS: We
were dating then. We went three months,
four months together. And he cheated
on me for a year. This has been two years.
This one is two years. And I just... Before we were married. But, okay, so,
you had cheated, in fact, you had
admitted it. You took him back. But you understand
why her trust is broken. Yes. Once that trust
is broken, and then you
don't take
affirmative steps to re-establish it, from then on,
there's a cloud. You have been
living under a cloud
all this time. But he said he has
taken affirmative steps. Why get married to someone that
cheated on you if you don't
believe in 'em? Mrs. Donnell, is there
any particular person that you're
concerned about
that he's cheating with? With my neighbor. Um, she was
a close friend. It's just going
really crazy. You know, he says... I want to believe
that he's not cheating. But it's just
the little things
that happen. Like our GPS. It'll say
that he's
at my home when he's not
at my home. So that's sayin'
that the GPS
ain't workin'. If it's sayin' that
I'm not at home... I could be
right beside her
and she tells me, "Uh, the GPS sent you
down the street." She's even told me
that her GPS doesn't
correctly work sometimes. All right,
when you say
the GPS is not... It says that he's home,
but he's not home, where do you
think he is? With my neighbor. I mean, how close
is the neighbor to you? Are you in
the same building? Yes, ma'am.
In the same building. Or are you next door? it may show
that he's home, because you're in
the same building. But he's not in
your apartment. Yes, ma'am. You brought an exhibit
to demonstrate what you're
talking about. Is that right? DONNELL: Yes, sir. Okay, would you step
to the monitor, please? Okay, we were
into it that night. So, he went
to a friend's house and I want to,
you know,
reconcile that night. I wanted him
to come home. So, I go out
to his friend's house. At 1:45,
I get there. And we sit
for a minute,
you know. I asked him
if he wanted
to come home. He said that he
wanted to stay, because he could get
to his job better that way. Although I could
have drove him. So, I leave
and I get home
at 2:27. Later on that night,
my phone pings from his phone
on the GPS and it says that he's
at my house at 3:46. He was never
at my house. Nowhere in my house
was he to be found in my apartment. Your phone
tells you that he
gets home at 3:46. DONNELL: Yes. But he's not
in your apartment. DONNELL: No,
Your Honor. JUDGE KEITH: And so,
from 3:46 to 7:19... At 7:19, that's when
he leaves for work. At the same time
he was leaving for work, the neighbor was
leaving as well. (AUDIENCE CLAMORING) So, you believe
that at 3:46, he was in
the building. DONNELL: Yes. But he wasn't
in your apartment. No, ma'am. He was at
the neighbor's
apartment. DONNELL: That's what I believe. And that's why it pinged
that he was home, he was in
the building, but he was
with the neighbor. Yes. JUDGE DANA: And
you believe he was with the neighbor
and probably cheating. DONNELL: Yeah,
I believe so. And also, at 7:19,
I was still at home. All right. Okay. Thank you,
Mrs. Donnell. If you come back
to the podium, please. All right, Mr. Starks,
are you cheating
with this neighbor? cheating with no woman. All right,
Mr. Starks, are you cheating
with this neighbor? Never. Were you
at her house? Never. You were not
at her home? Never. Only time I've been
in her home was when
she first moved in, she drinks a little bit,
I did a moving job. A lot. I did a
moving job, they gave me liquor. I thought they
were pretty cool. She's a drinker,
I gave it to her. So ever since I
did her a good deed, or whatever,
or tryin' to
be a friend, like she said. (INDISTINCT CONVERSATION) Oh, he's been a friend a lot. He gave her
a lot of liquor. He's been a friend
very often. He's not even
a big drinker. Often? And he would
go and buy liquor. And, "Oh, and I'm
gonna take one.
Over here." Let me tell you
how often is. She got me
so messed up I can't look out
my own windows. If look out
my window, and her car pulls up,
I'm cheatin'. JUDGE KEITH: But, Mr. Starks. Why is that
her GPS shows that your phone was
in your apartment building but you weren't
at home? Please explain it to me. You explain it to me! I can't. JUDGE DANA: You... That's
why you're here! I'm not been
accused of cheating, you're the one
who's been
accused of cheating. You explain
to me why. You explain to me
why your phone shows up as being in
your apartment building but you're not
in your apartment
for four hours. I cannot explain that. Only thing I can
explain, Mr. Cutler and Mrs. Cutler, is I've never
cheated on my wife. That's the only thing
I can explain. You have
no explanation why your phone shows that you
were in your
apartment building but not at home. I cannot tell you
how GPS works. And you deny that you were
in your neighbor's apartment... STARKS: I guarantee
I did not get in
that lady's house. If I was in
her house,
she knew about it. I ain't never
been in her house, fornicating,
cheating with
no woman. Not just
her neighbor,
no woman. I haven't
hugged, kissed,
touched a woman since 2005
or 2006. All right,
Mrs. Donnell,
you have a witness. 2005 or 2006, eh... In between
five or six. Mrs. Donnell,
you have a witness. Sir, would you
please stand? STARKS: A witness? Would you please
state your name
for the court and your relationship
to the party? I'm Randy Donnell.
This is my sister. All right,
Mr. Donnell,
can you tell us? Do you believe
your brother-in-law
is cheating? And if so, why? I have reason
to believe
he's cheating because there's
a lot of things
that don't add up. And I was present
for most of 'em, so... Have you seen him with
the woman in question? Definitely. I go outside and,
you know, they're having
a good conversation. I walk up and
everything stops. And you know,
they split ways. There's even been
a time when he said, "Hey, I can't even
talk to my neighbor?" I felt like, if he
was talking to her
before I came, why not continue? What do you got
talking about
that I can't be around? That's happened
multiple times, you know? So, you, because you've
seen it more than once it's so noticeable that they must
be talking about
something they're doin'. Right. You know, when people
are talkin', it's like... (CONTINUES INDISTINCTLY) STARKS: Yeah. When you come
into a room,
then it just... Everybody stops talking. JUDGE DANA: All right,
thank you so much, Mr. Donnell. JUDGE KEITH: Sit down. I think we've heard
enough evidence. Mrs. Donnell believes that
her husband is cheating
with the neighbor. Mmm-hmm. She tracked him
to a hotel where he
stayed for three hours,
four hours. Her brother believes that he is involved
with the neighbor because he's seen
how they interact
with each other. And they go silent
when somebody walks in. They go silent. And his phone is in
the apartment complex at three
in the morning
until seven, but he's not
in the apartment. And she knows
he's not there, because she's
tracked his phone. And all this has
led her to believe
that he's cheating. And she's already said
that if she finds out that he's cheating, she's done,
she's gone. The marriage
is over. And she's gone
as far as to talk to some attorneys
about a divorce. JUDGE KEITH: Yes. JUDGE DANA: Well,
because of this, this court has done
a complete investigation
of this matter. At this time,
the court would
like to call former military
interrogator,
Lena Sisco. to determine,
"Is he cheating?" (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) (AUDIENCE CHEERING) (DONNELL CHUCKLING) (DONNELL CHUCKLING) JUDGE KEITH: Good day,
Mrs. Sisco. How are you? LENA: I am well,
Your Honor, how are you? Doing good.
It's good
to see you. Thank you,
it's good to
see you, as well. Could you state
your credentials please
for the court? Yes, Your Honor. I am a former
department of defense certified military
interrogator who has interrogated members
of Al-Qaeda
and Taliban... Hello. Shortly after 9/11. And since that time,
I have been training law enforcement personnel,
military personnel in interrogation and
interviewing techniques. Tell us what you did
to investigate this case. I had the accused write
a witness statement and I analyzed that
for any indicators <i> of truthfulness
and deception.</i> <i> I studied the case file
and I put together</i> <i> an interrogation plan.</i> <i> And then I
interrogated Mr. Starks.</i> So you conducted
a full interrogation. Correct, Your Honor. What were your
initial findings? When I interrogate someone,
I look for any indicators of truthfulness
and deception, verbally and
non-verbally. Mr. Starks did
give me some concerns
in the beginning, when I asked
what I call my
lie-exposing questions. JUDGE DANA: All right. What did you learn
in your investigation? As the interrogation went on, he also gave me
a few more concerns because some
of his answers were very common
deceptive responses. So, for example,
when I asked him if he had sex
with the neighbor, he gave me
a definitive "No." But he also did
a slight head nod
as to "Yes." And then he went on
to claim that what
he is accused of, being at a hotel
for four hours, he was actually
waiting for a ride from his boss
to go to a work site. And then he proceeded
to take out his phone and show me
text messages of how they
co-ordinate pick-ups. JUDGE KEITH: So,
what did you conclude? So, for someone
who has conducted
hundreds of interrogations and interviews since 2003, and has been catching
liars since then, I do not believe
that Mr. Starks is cheating
on his wife. And I do believe
he's being truthful. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) All right,
Mrs. Donnell, you have a smile
on your face. What's going
through your mind
hearing the results? It made me feel
a lot better, you know? Al-Qaeda, baby.
I'm just normal. She interrogates Al-Qaeda. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) I still feel it's
a lot of things that we need to
work on, you know. I don't like having
trust issues, you know. JUDGE DANA: And
hearing these facts, do you feel like
I can get to that point where I can start
to trust him again? 'Cause she's saying
he has been
faithful to you. That's all I wanted. And that's all I want. I love my wife,
I've always loved her. I'll love her
until I die. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) But I want this
to be fixed. You know? And I'm
not the easiest person
to get along with. I am not. Just like's gonna
have to work on her building her trust
up in you, you're gonna have
to dial back
some of that difficulty... Yes, ma'am. So you all can
move forward happily
and healthily. STARKS: No problem. And this is gonna be
on the both of you. She's gotta have
to let the past go. But you also have
to let the past go. Are you ready
to let the past go? Yes, Your Honor. Are you ready
to look forward
to a happy future and all this
behind you? I definitely am. Then that is
a wonderful first step. DONNELL: Yes, it is. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) You all have been together
for nine years. You're married,
you have one child together. <i> But this once happy,
loving marriage</i> may be on its last legs
depending on what happens here in this courtroom today. -Am I right, Mr. Smith?
-[Kevin] Yes, Your Honor. You've initiated this case. Tell us why you brought
your wife here to court today. [Kevin] I mean, fool me once,
shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. Once a cheater,
always a cheater. Once a liar,
always a liar in my book. [Judge Keith] So you got 'em all
rattled off. Once a cheater,
always a cheater. And you don't wanna be
fooled twice? Not going to, Your Honor. And you think
you're being fooled twice -because she is cheating?
-Yes, sir. How does this feel for you? I just wanna know, you know? I just wanna know what--
has she been cheating. I want-- I want my family
to be together. I want to have my family
to stay together. I want to-- our relationship
to go back to the way it was. You know? Back when we first
got married, <i> -back when that picture,
you know...</i>
-[Judge Dana]<i> Was made.</i> [Judge Keith]
But you can't do that
until you get some answers. I gotta have 'em.
I'm tired of looking like a fool or feeling like
that I'm looking like a fool. [Judge Keith] Ms. Smith,
what's it like living under these
constant accusations? It's very stressful at times,
it's-- -I mean, it's just-- I don't--
-[Kevin] Sleeping on a recliner? -Well, yeah. I mean...
-[Kevin] Huh? ...I'm having to sleep
in the recliner because I'm being accused
of being with someone else. And can you imagine
sleeping up in a recliner that don't even recline
back good and you ain't been doing
nothing? So I'm sleeping in this recliner
for no reason. Oh, no. So you all are not even sleeping
in the same bed? -Not at the moment. No, sir.
-[Judge Dana] You have moved -to the recliner?
-Yes. -Not even...
-On the sofa? Not-- Yeah, I'm gonna say
even a sofa let you lay down. Now you're in the recliner,
sitting pretty much -just like this?
-[Amanda] Yes, sir. [Judge Keith] All because of
these cheating allegations? -Allegations, that's right.
-[Judge Keith] So you wanna
figure out what's going on as much as he does
so you can get back in the bed. -[Amanda] Right. Right.
-Well, you have come
to the right place 'cause we're gonna
get this resolved today, -up or down.
-Okay. -[Judge Dana] All right?
-Mr. Smith, you said, "Once a cheater,
always a cheater." Has she cheated before? There was a time where, um, we had gotten into it
and I'd put her out. About two weeks later,
she come home and, you know, she confessed to me
that something had happened with my homeboy, you know.
And... you know, I forgave her for it
because she was honest about it. -You know what I'm saying?
-Whoo! That's some kind of messy
right there. That's messy. So she--
so you ended up cheating -with this homeboy?
-Yes, I did. -Well, well, well.
-[all chuckle] All right. So he--
you take her back? -[Kevin] Yes, ma'am.
-Why did you take her back? Because she's the mother
to my child. You know what I'm saying?
I love her. I love her. I mean, look at her. I love her. What do you love about her?
What-- -[Kevin] What I love about her?
-Yeah? I mean, we go fishing a lot,
man, you know? [chuckles] We're country--
We're from the country. You know? And I love it.
I love when she goes fishing. She's better at me in fishing.
Hunting, too. <i> You know what I mean?
It turns me on.</i> -[Amanda chuckles]
-[Kevin]<i> You know what I mean?</i> -So he--
-What, her... -her hunting and fishing
turns you on?
-[Kevin] Ain't no lie. You don't see many women
going fishing. He likes a woman
who works the pole
and shoot the gun. -[Amanda chuckles]
-Is that true? -[Kevin] That's--
-Until I get more fish
than him, then he... Then he's got a problem?
But he knows how to reel it in? -[Kevin laughing] Yeah.
-[Amanda laughing] All right. We'll call it,
you know, whatever floats the boat... -Yeah.
-...let it float. So you all enjoy
the same hobbies and activities? -[Kevin] Yes, ma'am.
-[Amanda] Yes, ma'am. You obviously have
a child together. -So you're family.
-Yes, ma'am. I gotta think
that these accusations -are tearing your family apart.
-[Amanda] Yes, they are. To the-- down the drain. So you said you took her back
and you forgave her. Was there a period of time
after this -that there were no accusations?
-Yes. Why did the accusations
start back up? All right. I was going on a work trip, you know, she picked me up
in the airport the next day. And I asked her, I said,
you know, "Before we get home, is there anything
that you need to tell me?" I don't wanna hear nothing
from nobody else,
know what I'm saying? If something was to happen
with some of my homeboys that stayed at my house at
the time, you need to tell me. -Okay.
-I know how they are, and I just gave her
the opportunity, you know, -if something had happened,
you know, just tell me.
-[Judge Dana] All right. Don't let one
of my homeboys tell me. Was she acting funny or weird
when she picked you up? -[Kevin] Yes, sir.
-Okay. What was she doing? I mean, she wasn't talking
too much, she was just being short with me.
You know what I'm saying? I mean, she wasn't being loving,
she wasn't looking-- doing that. When I first get in the car, she would get in and kiss me
and stuff like that. She wasn't-- she just put
the car in drive and we start. [Judge Dana]<i> So you're like,
"Okay. What's this?</i> Why am I not getting, like,
'Hi, honey, how was your trip, we were doing this,
me and the baby did this.'" -It was just like,
get in the car and go?
-Yes, ma'am. And so you felt like
the lack of conversation, the lack of affection meant
something was going on -in her brain?
-No communication. -[Judge Dana] All right.
-So you got home... As soon as I got home,
as soon as I got home, I walked through the door,
and one of my other homeboys pulled me, he said, "Man,
I need tell you something." And he pulled me to the back,
you know, and he told me that she had been on my couch
under the blanket with another one of my homeboys. -[audience exclaiming]
-[Kevin] You know what I mean? And as soon as he tells me that,
I go and get her, you know what I'm saying?
I was like, "What's he talking about?"
Know what I mean? "Why is he telling me this?" And she denied it,
she steadily denied it and said that it didn't happen
or whatever. But I mean, why would--
As soon as I walked the door, why would he tell me that
right there? -[Judge Keith] Yeah.
-Know what I'm saying? Ms. Smith,
why would he tell him that? -I don't know.
-[audience exclaiming] I mean, you have to know
this group of guys, they're always trying
to stir up things. When me and him get into it,
they're steadily -trying to cause problems.
-That's what you always say. Well, that's what's going on. I mean,
it's really what's going on. Were you under the blanket
with somebody? [Amanda] No. I mean, were you on the sofa
with somebody? Were you in a position
with somebody that his homeboy could perceive
something was going on? I mean, yes, there was
people sitting on my sofa. [Judge Dana] Were you sitting
on the sofa? Yes, I was sitting on the sofa.
I even sat on the sofa at one time with the same guy
that told him this. We were all drinking moonshine,
you know? So I really can't-- You see what I'm saying? I can't recollect
every single moment of the night as to what-- where everybody sat
and where, you know. Drinking moonshine? All right.
What else have you seen that makes you think -Ms. Smith is cheating?
-[Kevin] Okay. All right. So she usually gets
home about 4:00, 4:15, 4:30, somewhere around there. And
this day, she was a little late, by 45 minutes to an hour,
give or take, you know? About 5:30, I guess,
she got home. And she walks in,
"Hey, babe, how you doing?"
trying to greet me, you know. I just bolt out beside her,
go to her car. I wanna see if another man been
in my car. Know what I'm saying? -Wow.
-[Kevin] I mean-- -[Judge Dana] Okay.
-I look-- I look-- But Mr. Smith, there seems to be
no pleasing you. -You know? When she came
to pick you up...
-Thank you. Thank you. ...and she was kind of flat,
you were like,
"Okay, something's wrong." Now, you come home, she's like,
"Hey, honey, how are you?" And you're like,
"Something's wrong." -She's an hour late.
-I bet you-- I'ma tell you what I think is happening,
you tell me if I'm right, okay? -[Kevin] Yes, ma'am.
-All right. When he got in the car
from the trip, she didn't say anything,
so it was like, "Okay. What's she hiding?"
This time, she's been gone. She's late. So she's
overcompensating like, "Honey!" -Amen.
-[Judge Dana] And it's like, "Yeah, that's too much.
You being extra. -What's happened in the car?"
-[Kevin] Yes, ma'am. -Okay.
-Yeah, Ms. Smith is thinking, -"I can't win for losing."
-That's exactly how I feel. [Judge Dana] All right.
What happened in the car? I went to her car,
I searched the driver side,
just looking around. I dug through it.
And as I was gonna shut
the door, I found a condom in between the seat
and the car door. I submitted you a video,
Your Honor. I have a video submitted
to the court. All right. Let's see this video. <i> Okay. Judges, this is
a reenactment of the day</i> <i> that I found the condom
in my wife's car.</i> <i> I look under the seat...</i> <i> nothing.</i> <i> I looked down below the seat,
bam. Laid a condom.</i> <i>I mean, how would you have felt?</i> [audience gasps and chatters] So you find it between like that -in that low area by the...
-Under the seat, yeah. -[Kevin] Yes, ma'am.
-...car door, between the car door
and the seat? -[Kevin] Yes, ma'am.
-Where things always fall out and we never know
where they are, can't find it. I don't ride on the passenger
side of my car, though. So how am I accountable
for everything that's in my car when I don't ride over there?
I'm a driver, I drive. -We don't know--
-Okay. But who was in the car -that had a condom?
-[Amanda] I gave a coworker
a ride home that day. What was he doing
with a condom in his pocket in my car?
They come three to a pack. I don't know. And you all don't use condoms,
I bet? -[Kevin] No, ma'am.
-[Amanda] No. -All right.
-We been married
nine years, no ma'am. So, anything going on
with you and this coworker? No. You know? I never dreamed
that I'd get home and my husband'll
find a condom in my car. He's like, "Where did
this come from?" Well, I can't answer.
I can't tell him
where the condom come from 'cause it's the first time
I ever seen it. Has this coworker
ever flirted with you -or made passes at you?
-[Amanda] No. No. So the only thing you did
and the reason you were late was that you gave this coworker -a ride home?
-Yes, ma'am. And it was not the kind of ride
he's thinking about? -That's exactly right.
-All right. [Kevin] Hmm, hmm, hmm. Is there anything else
that has happened -or that you've observed...
-[Kevin] Yes, Your Honor. ...that makes you think that Ms. Smith
is in fact cheating? -Yes, Your Honor.
-[Judge Dana] Tell me about it. I was going on a fishing trip
with one of my buddies early one morning, right?
All right, so my cousin tells me that my wife comes home
with a guy, brings a guy home with her.
And they come in my back door and go upstairs to my bedroom.
Okay. And 45-- 30, 45 minutes later,
my cousin said they come down, back out the back door,
got in the car and left. I mean,
I got a written statement... -[Judge Dana] Okay.
-...from my cousin. Ron, would you get that, please? And this is a cousin-- this is a cousin
that's living with you? -Yes, sir.
-All right, why was there a man
in your bedroom -for 30 to 45 minutes?
-Because we have a window air conditioner unit,
a window unit in our window. Yes, the air conditioner
was cold when he had left, but it was starting to freeze up
stuff again. We're not
just really rich people, so I'm thinking
if there's something that I can do to fix this
air conditioner without having
to totally replace it, then I'm gonna try that.
And this guy that I work with-- The same guy who left
a condom in my car? Yes. It was. So this is the same coworker?
Ironic. Did-- wait, wait, wait.
Did he fix it? -Temporarily. But--
-[Kevin] It was never-- it wasn't broken
when I left going fishing. All right,
let me read this statement. -This is from your cousin.
-[Kevin] Yes, ma'am. "I was staying
at Kevin and Mandy's house because I had surgery on my leg.
I was wheelchair bound, but I have never been blind." -[audience chuckling]
-[Judge Dana]<i> Okay.</i> <i>"I seen Mandy come in the house
with another man</i> <i> I had never seen before.</i> <i> They went right upstairs</i> and was up there
for 35 to 40 minutes. He did not have a toolbox
or anything, and she says he was fixing
the air conditioning unit. I told Kevin right away.
Mandy has always been sneaky." Statement from Laura Smith, -your cousin.
-[Kevin] Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay. So the man came in
to fix the air conditioner -without a single tool?
-Well, I don't know. I mean,
I don't know how he fix-- I don't know nothing
about air conditioners. Sounds like he's just trying
to look around my bedroom. Was he there to cool down
the bedroom or heat the bedroom up? He was there to make sure
my air conditioner
was staying cool. It was freezing up,
was what it was doing. You understand how this looks,
right? I understand, but, I mean,
since when can you
not have friends? Well, we're not saying
you can't have friends. But you keep giving this friend
a ride. He's coming to your house. He's got condoms,
and in your bedroom, and you can't explain it.
That's a problem. And the flip side of it is,
if she's not cheating, she has been so impinged upon... -[Kevin] Oh, I know.
-...and so maligned, how did she forgive you
for making her live this way? And I see the tears
in your eyes. Yeah. Mrs. Smith, I see you.
You're going back up, -you're rocking back and forth.
-She's in tears. -She's in tears.
-He's got tears in his eyes. I mean, this is a mess. We are literally looking
at shambles right here in front of us, love. And the future of this
just depends on what happens here
in this courtroom. [Judge Dana sighs] All right. Well, this court has done a full
and complete investigation to get to the bottom of this. At this time,
the court would like to call certified polygraph examiner
Tommy Platt to determine
is she cheating? -Ron, would you escort him in.
-[audience cheering] [Ron] Tommy Platt. [Judge Dana]
Mr. Platt, how are you? -Good afternoon, Your Honors.
-[Judge Dana] Glad to see you. You've been doing polygraphs
for more than 11 years. You've been fully trained,
and you have literally done <i> thousands of these polygraph
examinations, is that correct?</i> -[Tommy]<i> Yes, ma'am.</i>
-[Judge Dana]<i> All right.</i> I'm looking at our litigants.
And you're doing this, just squeezing your hands
together. So I'm gonna give you
the opportunity, because Mr. Platt's
gonna tell the story. If there's something you need to share
with your husband, -this the time to do it.
-Yes. There is. There is. The night that-- that you come home from the trip
and the guy told you that I was under
the blanket with a guy. Yes, that's true. I was
under a blanket with a guy. But nothing took place
under that blanket. It was cold. You know how cold
it was when you left. I mean, I'm sorry,
I should have just been upfront -with you when--
-I don't understand. But I knew you would've
just went from there to there. That's where-- I mean,
that's where it went. I mean, that's where it went.
In my book-- -I mean that's where it went.
-But that's not what it was. What would you be doing under
the blanket with another guy if that ain't where it went? All right. Mr. Platt,
you conducted a polygraph examination
of Ms. Smith, is that correct? Yes, ma'am. [Judge Dana]
And you asked Mrs. Smith, "Did you have
physical sexual contact with that man
under the blanket?" -What was her response?
-She stated no. What did
the lie detector determine? The lie detector determined
that she was being truthful. You almost fell out.
Are you okay? -I'm happy.
-[Judge Dana] Okay. I know it's a lot of weight
lifted off her shoulders, but it's a lot off mine, too.
You know what I mean? Do you feel like there's
a glimmer of hope? Yes, ma'am, there's always--
there's always gonna be
a glimmer of hope. -[Judge Dana] All right.
-You know? [sniffles] [Judge Dana]
We have another question. We have one more question.
You asked Ms. Smith, "Other than the one man
your husband knows about, have you had
physical sexual contact with anyone
other than your husband?" What was her response
to that question? You Honor, she stated no. What did
the lie detector determine? The lie detector determined
that she was telling the truth. [audience cheering] Thank you. -I love you.
-I love you. [Judge Dana]
Let me just say this. You all need
to establish boundaries. What's acceptable
and what isn't. My son, he texted me not long before
we came out here. And he sent me something.
I'm like, you know what?
I'm gonna write this down because somebody's gonna need it
today, and it was... "Explain your anger
instead of expressing it. And you will find solutions
instead of arguments." -I think that's brilliant.
-[audience applauding] That's brilliant.
So when you're upset... instead of just going off
the deep end, take a deep breath
and say, "Okay, why am I having this?
Does this make sense? How am I going to approach
my partner about it?" Instead of like...
[imitates hissing] ...and leaving her bleeding
or vice versa, you leave him bleeding. That's how you move
the ball forward. -[Kevin] Communication.
-Yeah. Real communication.
'Cause you're communicating when you're yelling or screaming
at each other, but that's not the kind
you want. Yes. And it's easier said
than done because I know just the thought of your wife
being with somebody else probably sends
your blood boiling. -[Kevin chuckles]
-It would for anybody.
