Tredegar House and the Morgan Family, Part 1: Origins.

hello and welcome to the little knowledge podcast where this time we're going to do something we haven't really done before usually we go to a house giggle at things and then run away again um this time however we're going to follow the story of one family all the way from its Origins really in Legend all the way up to 1962 when it all ended at least that's the theory it might take three episodes or so we're not sure but really it's stuff we talk about in the pub anyway so this episode could go in any direction really all kinds of tangents now the buzz bees have not made a great mark on the history of Wales it has to be said but luckily we have a Morgan with us to talk about Morgans and what could be more fitting we have with us as always Goff Morgan hello golf hello greetings to you everybody hope you're all having a lovely January January I was asleep for most of January hibernating here so I'm I'm still thinking this out so at the start of the year has been well that's what I was hoping to say yeah well it's um this this is odd isn't it talking about the Morgans I think it was Yeah Yeah well yeah it's a such a big topic for us particularly because of a a very long association with the Morgans and um their property at three house Etc so yeah it'd be to be an interesting one because they're such a lot and he says you're right you know they're the origins of the family are remote they really are very very distant particularly in this part of the world um so it'd be quite interesting in this in the first of our Blockbuster trilogy um the focus on some of the those obscure little origin things and and the very early history of the house which I think is what we're hoping to do in this uh and this we um ramble oh yeah we're getting nowhere near Red Brick or anything that modern oh no on this one but as far as you mentioned Origins and some people say that the Morgan Family were descended from karakticus which correct because karadog has popped up with dunraven castle if you remember and some donuts in that part of the world that was his sort of Realm yeah um some say Brutus the Conqueror of Britain when there were giants all over the place they they claimed um ancestry from him but of course we've got to get biblical haven't we go off and what is the what is the the other one you get what you pay for with Welsh bards and they did trace the Morgans all the way back step by step to ham the Second Son of Noah there he is potentially the very very first Morgan okay look in that first suit is the best way to describe in there isn't it yeah yeah I shouldn't have let you go for the full biblical patriarch look shouldn't they I suppose to keeping it tied up yeah all I would say to you is unless you have a robust uh mentality don't read Ham's Wikipedia entry because it certainly made our hair cool that was a shock wasn't it yeah you can't even say it out loud I mean it was the tradition of genealogies at the time though to actually you know go right back to Adam even you know so the fact that they quit at the Second Son of Noah um is not it's probably a step a step in the right direction shall we say the greatest family tree that money could buy I think it's safe to say yeah you pay for with Welsh bards yeah so I hope but that was good when was that bad sort of genealogy compiled then that got him back to that oh quite a long way and it I think this one might well have been done by a little old lady from Hereford oh right yeah um I I like to imagine that she I don't know if she was old I know she was a lady and she lived in Hereford and she did it and I like to imagine she was knitting as she produces they could have legendary sort of ancestors that's when heraldry was very important to the welshiver more than the English really yes um uh which was very interesting um the way it all drags all the way back but a little lady in Hereford but the thing was this was put down as a Welsh Family Tree in an English historian said well that's nonsense Second Son of Noah nonsense I've done my research and it's quite clear but the Morgans of trudiger are directly descended from the third son of Noah made far more so we've got our forebears sort of what we need now goth for this dynasty is a site upon which to base it right so current site is this one now we are looking down a bird's eye view of a part of Newport ah there we go right in the middle here where I'm going around is the current day tradiga house yeah all of this here this sinewy Serpentine housing estate of Dufferin is indicative of how Newport has grown basically to Encompass a country house this was once in the countryside we've got the Avenue of oak trees disappearing over the brow of the hill now this is far too modern for us but usually golf we show an historic map and then show the modern world encroaching upon it don't we yeah it's time we have the satisfaction of removing the modern world how are we doing it the other way yeah we'll start with a modern map and we will go right back and all of a sudden tradega house the Country House wants more yeah right yeah so yeah it's astonishing you need to realize how much you did things got completely sort of swamped and encroached on look at this I've noticed this before this bit here here we'll build is it's not still there is it everyone keep an eye on that square okay the camping site because because that says Granary for the Old Forge the forges will come in our 17th century episode I just got excited when I saw that and that's all yeah so if we have a look here there are a couple of things I want to um show people which will come up again and again if we go up here we have guerna Clapper which is a long Barrow chambered long barrel site uh Neolithic so um it dates from what 4000 BC to 3000 BC oh crap very historic site yeah and gwena klepper actually became um a home for um a son of the Morgan Family you could say Evo Heil either the generous who basically had his own Bard one of the greatest of all bards David guillem who speaks of Hawking at guerner Clapper and poetry and culture and Evo had paid him to say this this is true look I just going way back we have got gwena Clipper do you know what goth I've someone I've never saw this before I saw a document which suggested that King Charles the first before going to repair a castle stayed at guerner Clapper house oh that's interesting as I thought it would long gone by then oh no he wasn't long gone but I'm still surprised no it went in 1680. when the organs finally got I thought he'd have gone a lot earlier than that oh well it was leased out to various people and the sad thing is going to Clapper house when it was demolished and they sold it all off it made well didn't make 10 pounds 10 Shillings oh gosh I had a mighty have call and the Very my point with this is this is a very ancient site yeah you've got guerner Clapper nearby Roman remains has been discovered in tredegar park um when they were doing the roads up here yeah they discovered what they saw as remnants because the roads aren't there on this map how stupid are you Busby um no they discovered are your 60s when they're building motorways and and they discovered the evidence of what they called a medieval village just to the north of the house oh yeah I suspect it was not a medieval village oh I suspect it could well have been the tradega house before the present one oh yes because we've often wondered that where it went aren't we yeah that the 1385 the building that's recorded being there in 1385. so it's actually to the north of the mountains something was yeah so we start already with a mystery I also want to point out I hope you're still following this um we've got kennels and Smithy and this is all still here but if we go to the South we find pen Khan I've often been asked where pen Khan is oh yeah there's a bit of me which thinks it might have been the home of Sir Henry Morgan growing up although very few people agree with me unfortunately Penn Khan if we fast forward bang under houses oh gosh yes completely gone here but we've still got all this bit yeah and that's good so we've still got middle pen Khan at least where it was and great pen calm down here now I hope great pen calm was the ancestral home because that would be handy because the person we're going to talk about first had a connection to pen Khan okay so it's so close to tredegar house isn't it yeah oh yeah very near neighbor no I want to talk goth um in the 1890s I think uh Lord tredega gave a speech in the park and he said that he was quite proud because he had a saint buried in tredegar park and he believed that Saint Gladys it was a mountain Gladius was buried in his walled tredegar Park now what this means is this touches the sight on Arthurian Legend as well oh yeah oh yes yeah now you know of course about Saint Gladys goth oh yeah Saint Gladys was the wife of Saint Wallace um two factors believe that and their son was Saint caddock it was it was a major figure as well think um Wallace was a grinclude as his real name was Greenfield was a sort of warlord um who basically converted to Christianity and then converted a lot of other people to Christianity by threatening to cut her heads off sort of thing um so he never quite lost his ferociousness but they uh he uh caddock convinced him and Saint Gladys to live an incredibly austere um The Hermitage type life really they abandoned all the the Earthly trappings and and Gladius with him as well and they lived in little cells on the top of Saint uh of Stow hilly Newport area around there and uh Gladys and he believed would bathe uh oh natural in um in the various Rivers I think uh would you do the escapee so often where there's a pill where they think where he may have um uh um have actually bathed but also Gladys was on the side of the Ebu wasn't she yeah her little uh site where she would be than a holy spring the spring that she used to bathing became if it was Saint gladys's holy spring and was believed to have healing properties and we'll talk more about that when we get to the 18th century but personally to this point is it what's a collection with sort of a thoriana though lots of what's that big well the authoriana is the fact that in the lives of the Saints which was at Lan carven which is near cowbridge uh probably about 1086. yeah two versions of this in the lives of various Saints included Saint caddock and Saint guintlug Gladys was seen as the daughter of one of the many daughters of um King brocken from breckenshire yeah and uh one of 25 daughters 25 do you know again there's one document which suggests he had 63. he bought a very good Bard to get a very good bar to get 63 daughters but anyway um uh humble old grintlug at this point wanted to marry Gladys and uh King bruckman said no and so basically he kidnapped or rescued her as he rescued her he darted towards this part of the world where he was met by King Arthur oh yeah who helped him but not before King Arthur considered kidnapping Gladys himself because of the beauty yeah yeah so that's the legend he an Arthurian and interesting isn't it because if you go up here where is it can I find it can I find it somewhere along here oh God it's all a bit I can't no it's it's still a bit um it's not quite clear in itself because I've been on this page for too long right uh but there is a place oh gosh everything's going a bit but there is a place just up here called mice Arthur 's field oh well well and although it isn't called Arthur's field anymore it's still there and it's still exactly the same oh there it is can you see that in the center of us yeah mice Arthur yeah my Surfer and if and look at the shape of it and I'll show you my star for today how fascinating yeah there's always a chance that mice Arthur could simply mean a bloke called Arthur on this field but it might not mean that no but also it sometimes you've got like that um sort of back filling they do there's a place called mice Arthur so then they say oh King Arthur must have been here so it's the other way so it's the other way around it wasn't actually named after him somebody Arthur was there and then the story became attached because they believed it was a famous Arthur yeah as opposed to a uh everyday Arthur shall we say but there was also another interesting thing um you mentioned a Hermitage well gladius's Hermitage was see was said to be at pen Khan oh right I didn't know that hence me bringing pen Khan into it they had little cells around Saint Stow Hill area as well originally I think they moved about a bit they put they put it around as Saints they went out there and did it and got to go everywhere so all right oh that's interesting so she had a Hermitage at Pinker so we have a legend around this site and this site called tridiga and why it's called tridiga well the satisfying answer is probably incorrect the fine answer is that it's at the foot of an Iron Age hillfort now known as the gear we did a podcast on the gear house if you remember um and troyda Gaia might means feet of the fort but it might have been Troy the guy means foot of the fort but it might have changed to trade agaya over the years yeah but of the fort seems to make sense except as a friend's mentioned many years ago and he's quite right when I think about it um if that is what it means there's a lot of Hill thoughts in Wales why aren't there more tradikas oh yeah ah now I have a theory about this okay because it's also a set it's reclaimed land because remember there's the sea wall so a lot of the land around this area but at the foot of the fort is land that was reclaimed from very very marshy salt marshes and an area so if the if that name came about after the land was reclaimed that then it suddenly becomes a signifier that it's it's the land the new land at the foot of the fort it's plausible that's right that's what I've often thought about how the how because as you say why is it why aren't there more for the default places because there are loads of thoughts but it becomes significant if it's new land newly named possibly yeah no well that makes sense and that would be very um satisfying there's also another um the way um it's worded on a poem The Sir John Morgan in the 15th century that we'll come to um it mentions him as Sir John Morgan and he and he mentioned tredega but the way they've actually put the capital letters suggests that it's tridiga was drift de Gea which basically ordrev de Gea which basically means Homestead of someone called daeger or tagir so again is it foot of the fort or is it the Home Place the homestead which is bigger than a house which would explain what they found near the near the roundabouts so the place or Homestead of dagor orteger now we'll talk more about dagor and tagore and who they might be in our Arthurian episode which we promised we would do but it just gets you thinking we're not entirely sure but we've got our site we've got Legends behind it it's called tredega now we need a family upon which to actually live there that isn't in the Bible and we start with a very big character oh first of all do you want to have a little look at some Gladys why shouldn't you want to have a little look at some Gladys there she is oh the white Ox the white Ox the White Oaks are very significant thing that was by the the church Saint Wallace was founded where the white I say they see a white Ox grazing where the white oxes found the Grays there they should build a chapel and that's what's excuse me yeah so that's where that's why the whitehawks is so significant that's why there's a huge Ox statue with a bell on it um in Newport down at the uh near the ESC way at the absolutely right now what you um what you weren't here for a while is US using the surname Morgan because we're in the patronymic stage of Welsh history essentially means that your name if you knew your ancestors was a string of your ancestors yeah I mean it's certainly molded father to son so you would use apps daughter of oh and your tree would carry on like that yeah so they haven't settled on The Branding you might call it yeah of an anglicized surname at this point but already at this point Morgan is quite a magical name there's lots of kings of gwent have been called there's Morgan the generous there was the very famous Morgan hen Morgan the old Angela Morgan itself of course Morgan Oak yeah land of Morgan fan of the Morgan the Morgan is a very special name it is and also I mean it also just before we finally abandon all all this these are the etherian a bit as well one of the Morgans with Lords of clean was also a Morgan AB uhuris went about the year 700 which is way again this this sort of arthuriana bit connects in our area someone once wrote a letter uh to Evan Morgan uh a 1930s 40s Lord tredega uh who was interested in the occult who said I know that you have secret powers and Evan was very interested in this he said because of course Morgan means water Sprite and I believe all the Morgans are descended from a water Sprite [Laughter] consider myself a water Sprite um but the the water connection with the name Morgan is Morgan actually means as shining as the sea yeah brilliant is the sea so the reflection of the sun on the water so that so you can see where the water the elephant comes along we have someone however who was known as I mean we were in the 1270s 1280s where we really start our story and we started with some Morgan app moredith yeah so Morgan at Meredith had a beef quite frankly he was in the long line of the Native Lords of Killian and uh the Normans as as they often did um basically kicked out his father and his ancestors as Lords of Colleen so Morgan admirered had really didn't like Gilbert declare Gilbert declares the Norman who built cthilly castle and he is really the arch enemy of the Morgans of these early years wow so Morgan at Meredith loved a good rebellion in fact he was known as Morgan the rebel no oh right yeah um 1283 he Rebels on the side of death is app gruffis that doesn't go so well and in 1294 madogaps Llewellyn Rebels and samorgan at Meredith uh basically becomes the leader of the rebels in Glamorgan and he's amazingly effective uh he captured the castle of kenvig and he captured the castle of flan Gibby which we've done a podcast on for goodness sake yeah so he's quite the warrior um let's so he basically Gilbert declares worst enemy here's Gilbert declare looking worried as if sir Morgan is about to come over the hill at any possible moment yeah I'll just go and get my horse [Laughter] Adam Morgan's approaching but this 1294 Rebellion on the side of madagas Llewellyn this fails as well but samorgan at Meredith says to oh says to this man Patrick mcguin oh yes what perhaps the least accurate historical movie ever made Braveheart Patrick mcguin is playing Edward the first here you don't mess with Edward the first and samorgan has essentially rebelled against him but Morgan says to him sire was not rebelling against you I was rebelling against the Claire family what this is a pattern that we will touch on Lots throughout these videos the Morgans think locally first yes yeah and he wanted the old Korean lands returned and unbelievably Edward the first agrees oh gosh it does not execute the Morgan apparatus far from it in fact he makes Morgan his agent in South Wales invites him to Flanders where he becomes part of Edward the First's household you know the local the local Aristocrats landowners or whatever at the time and then the The Chieftains and the area they would generally were displaced by Norman Norman Warlords who were putting as part of the conquest weren't they so they're going to actually take on one of the local Welsh uh landowners is actually quite um quite significant really isn't it oh yeah Morgan the rebel is I can see I I think maybe they chose Morgan as the surname possibly to do with sir Morgan at Meredith he was so well known as The Warrior leader in morganug and parts of gwent as well um but anyway nothing is quite as it seems because a letter survives from the English traitor Sir Thomas Turbeville who basically wanted France to invade England and take over and he's right into the French King which is King Philip the fair that we've talked about in pubs about the knights template oh yeah he's a chap that um had a pet poke and shut down the knights template yeah so Sir Thomas turboville writes to him saying if you invade Scotland and Scotland and Wales will rise I have been told this by Sir Morgan at moredith brother Morgan's paying lip service to Edward the first we're not entirely sure or it could be that turboville is just over egging the pudding a little bit um because Morgan has no punishment from Edward the first and he's his agent in South Wales so it is interesting how powerful this family appeared to be even as far back as the 12th 80s and 1290s isn't it oh it is fascinating isn't it absolutely fascinating and by the way an interesting point that um well interesting to us at least was if you remember golf sir Morgan at Meredith um after the Templars were wiped out by Philip the fair who would have heard of Morgan at Meredith um he ends up getting Templar land doesn't he little pocket of Templar land it's all organ at Meredith yes that's right we would we were looking at and trying to pin down what it was and where it was weren't we and I mean this Commander I think wasn't it any chemist Commander that was like oh yeah yeah the fact that's very very intriguing isn't it that he gives him that just you know Philip the fair was keeping a grip on all of that really so how did he get a little bit of Templar I just like the fact that the king of France knows Morgan at Moretz well they've been given the right information or not we will never know so we have our famous forbear samorgan app Meredith we know he's in the area and uh we what we need now of course is we need a Crest and this was the initial crest of the family who later became Morgan the Griffin well that's very different from what we see nowadays isn't it so you've got part lion part Eagle that's the ancient crest of the Morgan Family um now what happens is samorgan at Meredith dies in early 1330s and his daughter Anne harad known again thanks to the bards and harad the Beautiful again you get what you pay for is in the early 30s when she marries and it's this marriage from this point on we can document the complete line of the Morgans of tradega it comes from the marriage of Sir Morgan at marred's daughter and harad the Beautiful and a great landowner as the Lord of sinclairs in carmarthen flewellyn app evil and from that moment on everything is documented as a family tree the fact is a very very late age for someone to marry in the hundreds isn't it I mean because your life expectancy could be you could be up to 40. so she's only married seven years before what was the life expectancy at the period more or less average life expectancy that is and also yeah because I mean had she had she married before was it the second marriage nope well well how interesting you touched on the one point that historians of that era do find interesting because she's also a great heiress he has no sons that that yeah well yeah so that's interesting but I also got to understand though the the the the what's the Welsh legal systems still operating at that point because well you were under the Norman heel really yeah but the inhabitant system as well the inheritance well yeah so you wouldn't she might have yeah she uh and they said people know just to explain what I'm babbling on a bit um under the Welsh legal system every son and daughter inherited an equal portion of the estate on the death of their father so it meant that you couldn't build up great land masses because everybody got a bit now I mean did he if he didn't have other children however and she was the sole heir um then she would have been in a very powerful position because she would have inherited all of his property um not it wouldn't have been split up between other siblings so she would have been a very very wealthy woman in her own right the the the the the inheritance going to the primogenitor the firstborn son is not is the Norman system yeah which which seems to have been adopted I would say later on in the Morgan Family when they almost when they adopted the the Norman patronymic system as rather the first name uh the family name system that was done so that's yeah so that she that's very interesting I mean it may be that she didn't marry because she was the Soleil to the estate they they wouldn't have wanted in a way that I don't know what the because often there was a tendency at some point you know but there was that um the there was the property the wife or enter the husband perhaps they didn't want her inheritance going out to somebody um there's also a human element she only marries after her dad dies as far as I can make it oh interesting as soon as what Morgan the rebel was was thinking of but this coat of arms has nothing to do was her mother around oh we don't have the records to suggest you walls no by that point we wonder then whether you know she might have been operating as sort of mistress of the estate as well and well well entirely possible but she has nothing to do with this coat of arms this is entirely a husband Lord of sinclairs and it's not very English or Welsh no no Griffin is highly unusual and according to Octavius Morgan a name that you might hear he was an antiquarian and the son of the famous Sir Charles Morgan brother to the first Lord trade eager as well uh he's looked into a lot of this and he found the College of arms in 1589 suggests that these are actually the arms of a Spanish Knight and the evil slayed in one-on-one combat when he fought in Spain so he slayed this man and out of Honor he took the far more Spanish Griffon as his coat of arms and that was declared in 1589 which is you know it's not that far probably you know 14 30 maybe 250 years after the event so anyway it could be a legend but that's the story that's quite interesting and it's all right as well isn't it you know because obviously Spain was a big Templar area so you run the did he plump off a temple a night anyway that's interesting who knows um so anyway and harad and have evor although by the way just throw in Little Monkey Wrench which we won't be talking about but um Octavius did some work and he actually believed that fluent in that evil owned tradega all along and he didn't come through unharad and some more redder than oh anyway let's not get lost in the weeds no um but they had children and we mentioned one of the children on our Sam Pierre podcast because the eldest who he named Morgan took over what we think is somewhere on this site of tredega the Second Son we've already talked about was Eva Heil yeah who went to Gwyneth pepper great cultural center and then of course there was the pretentious one Philip of sampier [Laughter] now fast forward we go to 1402 and there's problem I mean there's another rebellion and of course the Morgan's join it because that's what they do at this Stage Morgan the rebels Spirit lives on and it's the again someone we've talked about not Kent Church Court uh video Hawaiian glenduer I know England do a sweeps in and uh the Morgans so Ellen at Morgan supports him now it could be actually that in the absolute chaos and Carnage of this that ultimately was a failed Rebellion although it went very well for a very long period of time it ran for 14 years it rang for a long time and at its height that Wales was bigger under the controller glindu than it is now and that's quite fascinating isn't it yeah but as King Henry snapped back and there's a legend about that as well and about nantpen Khan if the freckled face man should pass over over the brook of Nan pen Khan in Wales will fall and he did you know and Khan again pemcon is very important place no one's heard of it was the freckled face King Henry okay Henry Olympics a little bit freckly all right yeah but so we got our England do it it could have been actually that whatever tridiga house was around and it would have been a wooden house probably in 1402 on a stone base whether it's on the side of the present one or near where that Motorway is now um it may well have been destroyed because the value of the lordship after glenduer was nil oh oh interesting but it may have been destroyed we don't know there are very few Stone houses built in 1402 in South Wales um but we need to make a little bit of a jump because they've taken a hit here haven't they because apparently sequestrated at this point yeah they finally decided that um they're causing too much trouble so the estate is the taken off them but they get back in using the greatest dynastic weapon of all marriage all right so well enough Morgan does to get back in The Graces is that his son ends up marrying uh the niece of one of glenduer's enemies Davi Gam oh yeah Abby gam who died at Asian core yeah maybe flewellyn was based on by Shakespeare in Henry V yeah and so by marrying into a family known to despise glendura it seems to have got them back in good graces it's interesting you're always thinking strategically at this point aren't you well yeah yeah and and dynastic marriage was the politics of the day as well um and all political marriages marriage alliances so if they are now settled somewhere at tredegar we go to a man now that we have talked about a bit in the past Goff and that is Sir John Morgan or Sir John hey Morgan so basically it's around about this time although his son does uh produce the patronymic again but his grandson seems to settle on the surname Morgan which becomes a brand really doesn't it to get on with the angler-sized court yeah probably again honest Society now we've talked of Sir John um Morgan quite a bit in the past he was not um lightweight was he he was known as the fat Knight which I think is wonderful I I take a small exception with the interpretation that used to be in the in the servants Hall of trade league has when they referred to him as the night he's having a horrible word lump it's a bit Stout you all right with Stout I'm happy about my mind's stoked because stoked out of heart as well but no he was he was fat hey I'm a fat man I'm a fat Morgan I want more fat Morgans represented in the house I'm staking my claim um yeah no yeah yeah he was a very a large gentleman he had his own poets gorillum Chow which is sort of fat grillum so fat night in his fat poet um they went off on um um pilgrimage to uh the Holy Sepulcher in Rome this is what you have here Golf and after Jerusalem as well they are off to Jerusalem so I mean they went all across Europe where and then back so how long that must have taken him in a time it was taken a couple of years I know he was on pilgrimage as well of course you could buy a package which I like package holidays oh you get to the Holy Sepulcher which is what you see on the screen now this is about 1540s so it's a generational two away from Sir John's visit he was probably there in about 1448 with the added bonuses if you go there you might get a Knighthood and he was knighted as a knight of the Holy Sepulcher because of his visiting this yeah I hope he didn't do any of the graffiti famously uh Aristocrats around Europe would do when they went to the Holy Sepulcher um but I do like the fact that you could like a package you could pick and they'd look after you and they'd take you there in the ship although the venetians were a little bit um A Hard Sell they said if you use anyone other than Venetian ships expect to end up at the bottom of the sea isn't it yeah they weren't mucking about with it I have stood in that cool Chad have you really I I have been to the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem and then that Courtyard area it's very different now the buildings around it but that's essentially Square Courtyard leading to the front of the church he's still there yeah yeah so yeah but I'm going I I did I I so that's two fat Morgans at least to have been going yeah well Sir John was also known as the widespread oh by the widespread wine of went Luke the widespread wine of wings for the longest time I assumed that meant Hospitality possibly or nearby but actually it appears to be if you look at the Welsh translation but it's more Vine of influence so the vine of the Morgans is starting to go right through the county of gwent or the other Kingdom of the widespread how interesting so another we would call networking in a way very much the network of influence that he built up so he was oh how interesting I think this probably looks nothing like him but this is a knight of the Holy Sepulcher yeah you might need to stretch the picture sideways a bit more oh foreign I am fat claiming I need representations of fat nights please that's what we need well this particular Stout night or fat night um was a very badly behaved local Gentry he was always getting into trouble with Edward IV's regime uh and it really wasn't good I mean famously in 1476 the Duke of Buckingham summoned him at the great session at Newport Castle if you go back in the new podcast and they were summoned there and basically told you very naughty will you please stop and paying of 500 marks penalty yeah yeah um and it was the kind of thing where you were summoned to Newport castle and you basically if you had a beef with anybody you could you could exclaim it there and see what that you could Buckingham would do about it but so John was causing all kinds of trouble in the area younger Morgan's sons are often pretty badly behaved in these early years you know wreck in Newport and various things um but Sir John was badly behaved it might have been to do again with the fact that taxes flowed through and then didn't flow out of tradega yes he was certainly chisel in at some point Mr John Morgan um but if he was getting in trouble with the authorities of the day there was hope because as we have heard already there is one thing the Morgans cannot resist however many times they fail at it Rebellion an uprising yeah Uprising and in 1485 this man had a plan haha Henry Tudor yeah and he lands at Milford Haven and he must have been extremely pleased to see one of the earliest supporters of Henry Tudor was Sir John Morgan of tredegar oh it turns out and the reason why that's good is so John has has the vine as the widespread wine of winkelugu has connections with people that Henry knows he really needs at this point yeah so if if we believe that he is this big fat Knight at the time the sight of him wobbling towards you with his big fat Bard a sight from Heaven yeah the Henry Tudor and is indeed likely that under the banner although Octavius Morgan claims that his father yayan also fought at Boswell field yian would have to have been in his 80s so it makes it unlikely but it's likely that Sir John did indeed fight at the Battle of Bosworth field underneath this Banner this is the banner of Henry Tudor against Richard III yeah you've got and if you notice his motto my God on my right is still the motto of King Charles III yeah yeah now it's always tricky at tradega house with uh ricardians or those um fans of Richard III of which there are many yes because tradika was definitely a Tudor Welsh supporting household yeah I always like to say that yes it is true unfortunately that um Sir John Morgan of tredegar did help put Richard III underneath that car park in Leicester personally not well he was there he didn't sneak in at the dead of night and pop him under there yeah but yeah he was perhaps involved in the General unpleasantness around the whole activity yeah I mean it is I mean Henry Tudors claimed to be Welsh which he used a lot to raise these Welsh supporters is a Louis tenuous isn't it maybe oh yeah he was born in Pembroke but you're right among the well she was Welsh among in Brittany he was you know yeah he adapted whatever he was to suit whoever he was talking to at the time um but they look at it whenever there is what you can say the perhaps the tune of the Morgans did Chuck their lot in with um the Tudors again because of that perception of them being another Welsh Uprising you know whenever a Welsh person will try to generally take over do something unpleasant New England they joined in you know and I said I wonder whether that's another significant factor um because again neither supported you know the uprising of uh the Welsh princess yet rising of glenduity and and now the Tudors when the Tudors came along they chucked their lot in with them as well except it worked on this occasion you know well they were absolutely right to because they were awarded land in the manner of badwelty which later became although at the time it was worth very little it later became the sort of heart of the um industrial Empire and they were allowed to guide that by supporting Henry Tudor and he's given all kinds of awards to John Morgan in the area although as an historian I just want to put a a warn in here there were three John Morgan's at the same time oh so sometimes they get mixed up in the records yeah but we think that he got very well rewarded he certainly got bad wealthy which was very valuable in future he didn't know it at the time but it certainly was of course that does not stop Sir John merrily chisel in Henry Tudor that's the interesting thing about it really because well I think one of the reputations about Henry VII was he was very he had very close control of the purse strings um but apparently he was warned about John Morgan fiddling the local taxis and he said he has to be what he left him fiddling them he just letting carry on yeah all the taxes going into tadiga house and none of the taxis coming out you know he was said that Henry was very uh mindful of those that were with him at Bosworth when if that forgiving nature to John Morgan might not have been spread to others shall we yeah yeah in the end he did go too far and according to the records in 1491 so John Morgan was reprimanded accordingly [Laughter] but around about 1493 so John Dies I'd reached a ripe old age the Morgans had got their Little Empire Building very nicely and this is part of what's left of his monument in uh now Newport cathedral St Wallace Church um when this was put in so we've got a little plaque here there used to be more than this I'm sure underneath but maybe it's uh it's been because you used to be able to see his little round stomach well you can just see a little bulge in the top there a little bit it's popping up the little that little pot belly and he's married to again Matthew of landaf this is another local family so now the Morgans are now a clan and they're marrying into other clans and their power over gwent in particular is growing uh constantly really so we have now we believe either during his lifetime or shortly afterwards a stone building is built at tredegar House of which a bit still survives do you think that's fair to say goth yes so I know you're talking about the the 1490s building within the remains of the 1490s building within the house today yeah and it was supported by this man John Leyland who was a great antiquarian and the father of English local history he was librarian to Henry VII and uh he passed by tredegar house and called it a fair place of stone that place of stone on his way there of course he went through Newport which he referred to as mostly in ruin that could have been the Morgan's fault because in our St Julian's podcast we tell the tale of um the Trinity Sunday Riot yeah if he came through after that yes it would have been mostly in ruin it Morgans and Herbert's wreck in Newport in an argument over a dog click on St Julian's and you'll get the full story from goth it's grubby pretty grubby um what we have here by the way is um is what golf said it is now the servants Hall of tredegar house but it's the surviving Stone wing certainly with lots of cuter aspects but parts of it could be earlier the dendrochronology which we talked about in our chepster Castle podcast dendrochronology is at wood time basically it's the age of the wood dates the primary beams from 1544 to 1574 but Octavius Morgan is convinced that there are parts of this Wing which are older still well I mean the the if you think about it how many times our roofs replaced so it's the age of the roof beams it's not necessarily the age of the building but it is the first concrete uh date in that part of the house so you can say because it's very difficult to say with any degree of certainty really when these when these things were actually put in but that's the one fixed date we can say that roof beam was put in at that date um so that's why it's a significant day but no it doesn't necessarily reflect on the age of the building itself age of the roof no that's right now I want to go through here because we're going to nip forward to the 15 60s 1550s 1560s where a man called William Morgan is living here now this is the inside much altered inside of what became the servants Hall of tredegar house hence these long tables um there are two fireplaces one here and one down this way and they are different ages oh now that suggests that one time maybe there it was you know maybe two rooms we can't be sure but what we do know because Octavius Morgan knew about this he said in 1810 they repaved this floor and originally between the two fireplaces was a Deus so in this part of the room was a Deus where you would expect the Morgans to be if this was the old Hall yeah of their tredega house oh yeah because they would have the the when you were dining in it the family would sat elevated above the plebs in a way and at the time they sat on a dice at the top and uh and facing out so they sat behind the table and faced out down the length of the hall um that's a part of it it was a sort of a power statement basically and they they had the best Crockery and the best glassware and the best uh couple in the news at the time and then below the Dias area um things were a lot more simple a lot less good quality possibly but not the top quality that you got I want you to know referred to as the top table that sounds good Justin you mentioned that not so much Crockery because even in the when the 17th Century House was built there wasn't very little Crockery it was all pewter yes so it's an interesting thing but also it's not just eating although it would have been way back in the time of Sir John by the time of William Morgan you probably had as the local Magister at his wonderfully named chair of Justice he would dispense Justice throughout the county usually a pre-trial kind of thing in all honesty to the illness they have bigger they always have bigger Ambitions I think yeah what is it referred to at this period um because it's not tradega park at this period That's later isn't it it's just known in the documents I've seen now the mansion house known as tredega spelled with a Y study gear yeah um so imagine William sat there uh these are the disastrous personal life quite frankly um he hasn't had any kids with his wife and he's been wildly unfaithful to her with one of them um the straddling daughters from Saint Donald's castle and uh he has illegitimate children but no legitimate Heir but he sits there on his chair and he dispenses justice but the English crown have a problem with pirates at this point there are pirates everywhere and they appear to be attacking out of Cardiff panath and Newport in particular and the most famous one of all is John kallis no one can catch this ruthless pirate and he seems to have connections because every time they turn up at places like tredegar house they get given the silent treatment by the magistrates oh oh it doesn't it because Willian is of course involved in the piracy yeah he owned the ships I think but he certainly had something it's interesting that John callis's uh brother-in-law this is John kalis by the way oh it's not really it's just I saw an article online about John Callis and this was the picture they chose so who am I to go against it John kallis was uh ruthless um he would shoot you in the leg so you tell him basically where his where the treasure is or he'll shoot her the bits of you I know and he was known as utterly ruthless and he was um an unusual thing a pirate that reached a good age oh I never really retired he would do things um he would usually sell his stock far away from where he stole it which is interesting Milford Haven usually and he would attack head of Cardiff attack out of Newport and he was the one callous that they all wanted to catch but they were not going to get any help from William Morgan of tredegar on this were they no because he was involved and more importantly perhaps kallus's father-in-law was Nicholas Herbert means he had aristocratic connections which probably was quite a nice cozy deal for the South Wales Gentry yeah yeah I love that his ship he had two ships uh called one was called the cost me naught his more famous ship was called the swallow which he stole from a Scottish Merchant and one report says they eventually caught him and when they caught him he offered to give as much information as possible to catch all the other Pirates I'll tell you anything gov thing oh and knows he was a pirate but he was gonna he was going to tell you where all the other ones were all the other ones he was a pilot as well and his wife yeah little children lots of pirates potential Pirates anyway according to one report I saw they eventually caught him and they eventually hanged him at Newport oh really okay however the story might not quite end there I'm pleased to say what um at the time um tradika was taken over as I said he had no legitimate children this let's go back to his place uh William Morgan had no legitimate children but he did have an illegitimate children with the straddling um that lady yeah um one of which was called John Morgan of the Cross house which was in Newport and he set him up there and and William Morgan hated one thing above all others he loathed his cousin from plasmac and he loathed Roland Morgan oh the passion and the heat of a thousand Sons now whether it's because Roland was Catholic or merely that William loathedraland he was absolutely certain that no matter what happened Roland would not succeed to the tradega estate was was the the legitimate heir to the estate wasn't he absolutely that's when it should have gone to absolutely and this is yeah we're in the 1560.69 wasn't he also Steward of the estate as well Roland not quite yet oh right um what happens is that William arranges for his illegitimate grandson miles Morgan to inherit he somehow gets away with it miles does inherit and Miles starts as a daring character and he spends money on tredega house um he probably probably adds to this Stone building um but some of his um Ventures go wrong so wrong in fact that he finds himself over 800 pounds in debt 800 pounds 13 Shillings and six punts that's a massive debt oh yeah for the 1570s yeah so Miles simply does not know what to do the house is mortgaged at one point tredega house gets mortgaged it gets seized off he is called an outlaw for his negligence because of this immense amount of debt and he needs as the Americans would call it a Hail Mary pass he needs something to go right and at that time he starts talking to a friend of his not John Callis but Sir Humphrey Gilbert and so Humphrey Gilbert after a few years of attempting it has got permission from the queen to basically claim anything that isn't Spanish in the new world all right if you meet the Spanish give them a bloody nose yeah that was you know that wasn't mentioned but that was so Humphrey Gilbert suggests to Miles why don't you fit up a ship and join me on this adventure you'll get all your money back you'll be rich by the time you get back and Miles thinks well this is a tremendous idea and um so what they do is they do indeed um they get men together miles Morgan who by the way is high Sheriff of monmouthshire with this terrible debt by Sheriff and Mama Sean he sets up his own ship called the Red Lion of Newport it weighs in 110 tons he has 53 sailors and soldiers the names are interested in his mate is called Rhys Sparrow well that was a sparrow on board this ship yeah yeah another person was called black Robin I mean these are all ex-pirates some of these are ex-pirate vessels you know oh my goodness but also on his he has names like Herbert Matthew bradney so gwent Gentry a joint well by this point it's monmouthshire Gentry a join in the course so a mix of pirates bloodthirsty Pirates and South Wales Gentry are going to be on the red line of Newport to get miles his fortune back um that's the plan at least plans don't often go right and if we can actually have a look at some of the ships um Gilbert himself takes the anarga there's the hope there's the Falcon that was commanded by this man Walter Raleigh oh right okay half brother Humphrey Gilbert um his uh his ship the Falcon was paid for by this woman Queen Elizabeth the first um so you can see really that when they're saying it's just we shall plant our people in the new world it's basically really have a go at these are pirates basically yeah well yes yeah yeah and there's one pirate that they was also unbelievably involved because we have the elephant ship the squirrel ship the Red Lion and the swallow the swallow of course was all John callis's ship which we were pretty sure he was hanged at Newport of course yes oh goodness yeah except oh by the way miles this ship had its motto as Now or Never yeah unfortunate in light of what comes next which is about right but according to the his but the historian Matthew Lyons John kalis was not hanged at Newport but on the 14th of July 1578 was released and joined the crew of Humphrey Gilbert and Miles Morgan for another bash at the Spanish and loot and booty and unbelievable so he was imprisoned at Newport and they let him out they let him go back on the swallow I love you oh my goodness on the swallow miles Morgan had a problem however by this man who even looks irritating in Alabaster form there's another ship Commander um Sir Henry uh Knowles who through the berlins was related to Queen Elizabeth so tread carefully Henry Knowles was annoying he met up with Humphrey Gilbert and said I am worth 20 of you all right there's a strutting peacock of a man and you know who he hated more than Humphrey Gilbert miles oh no oh dear I don't know what miles did to him it might have been that Morgan rebellious Spirit he probably said something but so Henry decided the only possible response was to hang miles Morgan on his ship oh like by Humphrey Gilbert coming back from London just in time so it has to be said that this this Voyage because I mean in the end Knowles had enough said oh I'm not going with you and you went off with a couple of ships to do a bit of piracy never mind planting our people in the new world I've had enough of this yeah yeah finally after bad weather on the 19th of November 1578 the Red Lion of Newport which sounds indeed like a floating Pub miles Morgan and the swallow and Raleigh and Gilbert and they headed off to the new world it was a bit rough an alarm a little bit rough was it yeah miles had a farm called David benwin and David benwin's work survives and David benwin is constantly saying don't go to the Sea whatever you do don't go to the Sea it gets more and more shrill as the Poetry goes on do not go to the Sea I've got a bad feeling about this one well she has because if anything happens to Miles he loses his Patron he loses his paper yeah stay home with us whether it's safe and listen to some more poetry you've used that line in your place I've written a lovely one telling people how marvelous you are hahaha Unfortunately they all get blown back and Gilbert ends up in an Irish Port I believe Raleigh makes it as far as the canary Isles and does try to get to the new world that has to turn back miles Morgan knows this is a disaster and decides he needs to make money now and he appears to sail towards Knowles's ships and they do a spot of piracy so a new Venture for months he does become a pirate and how do we know this because the Spanish king is not happy right and the letters survived and document what miles did right friendships traveling from Spain to LA hav with wool and linen cloth on board called the Marie and the Marguerite were attacked and captured by ships belonging to Knowles and Miles Morgan 2 700 pounds worth of gear was taken my goodness or quite a lot of these spoils were put a poor aboard the Red Lion of Newport but the Red Lion did not make it home but they also actually accused them of sacking a village and despoiling a church pretty tough anyway the one ship that didn't make it home was of course the red line oh my God that's interesting that that the the land bits because they a lot of privateers would operated under a sort of Charter um you were allowed to sack enemy shipping but you weren't allowed to attack land land but with tongues and things like this because Henry Moore Henry Morgan eventually gets into trouble with this later on with us after Siege of Panama and what have you so it's interesting if you know the red line of Newport did do that you can't even claim oh no we operate on behalf of the crown oh no we were privateers no you weren't no you were quite definitely a pirate back in and sacking um you know uh coastal towns desperation for cash I guess made him follow his arch enemy Knowles it's interesting but yeah the Red Lion went to the Bottom of the Sea it's very interesting to me that on Stow Hill in Newport there is a I think it used to be bainswell Social Club it's called the cross house because it's on the site of the Cross house yeah yeah but directly adjacent is the pub called the Red Lion the red line and you bought it lovely little in joke accidentally done I would have thought and so miles is dead John Callis survives Carries On being vile oh my goodness so he is so basically Elizabeth Red Lion of Newport sink do we know we just it's lost with all hands is it attacked and so good does he just go down I don't know if it was attacked it would have made it into ambassadors um documents dispatches at some I think it's just the weather got it oh probably because it was laid down with all of that cloth linen and stuff it was pretty it might have been low in the water I mean miles is dead so no one ever was well never really yeah yeah so he dies at a young age um very interesting Humphrey Gilbert in 1583 does actually get to Newfoundland so he's seen as the progenitor of the British Empire Humphrey Gilbert but after the loss of all these Welsh gentlemen on the Red Lion very interesting that there is no subscriptions from Welsh from the Welsh from pre-gilbert's next attempt apart from Sir William Morgan of pencoid everybody else says no I'm sorry we lost our sons on this yeah not trusting Gilbert that's interesting yeah so a lot of the monbouchure uh Gentry economy stand number back City the mama said Gentry there must have been reasonably stripped out of convenient convenience Sons to marry into other families then oh well okay must be quite a disaster in dynastic terms to have lost a whole perfume proportional marriage uh marriage Bargains good Lord now the problem of what happens to miles is tradigorous day afterwards is um it all comes down to Old William's will and William said of course that he didn't want Roland to take over so he said if miles dies without children it would go to the herberts of Saint Julian's now we've talked about this two of the kids in line to inherit the estate died eating poisoned food which was actually a big tragedy we discovered wasn't it yeah yes it was actually rat poison put down for the rats and devastated the herds of Saint Julian and another one died young so there's a lot of what happens to Miles Morgan's estate now well they all gather at St Julian's house to work out what's going on all right Point miles has been basically Elizabeth is using his outlawy to say to the Spanish look he's an outlaw but really he was outlawed for debt rather than Pirates so the estate is sequestrated but no one's done anything about it I might I think they hired a man called Philip Maddox of mendelgif who done an inventory of tredegar house and when they asked him what was it what was in it he said well I don't know remember oh I remember there was a salt yeah yeah yeah apart from that not a clue no no very Cooperative the conspiracy of I don't know it was cool doesn't it yeah it was yeah So eventually they're not sure I mean the herberts can't really claim it um so it does kind of go towards the Macken Morgans and it's eventually settled by an enormous payment one of them Roland's son Thomas was a lawyer a good man to have when legal problems here this is Macken plasmakania and basically they say we'll pay you a fee and we'll end the dispute and for the 1584 they pay 5 564 pounds house and the estate passes to the mac and Morgan cousins gosh that's a large amount of Dosh isn't it because 800 pounds sent miles to see well yes he's saying that eight Underpants make getting rendered and outlawed said to see and clear under desperately you know turning into Desperate Measures and um blimey a nature let's go that's four 40 times the amount good Lord by the way this is what class Macken looks like today yeah in the early 19th century a lot of it was knocked down so this is it in its reduced State it's still rather Splendid isn't it and when the Morgans did inherit tredegar Morgans of Machan inherited tradega the cousins this house was kept for quite a while for the eldest son all right yeah as you know a role which was later played by ruperica yes that's right and this became a farmhouse which actually has survived better than poor old repairer Castle not quite yeah it has yeah so this is you know the again we have to as we end go towards the end now A Familiar painting for you goth of old Sir William Morgan this is the next Generation on another old Sir William there's lots of Williams and Charles is in our tail um it gets very confusing but if you look up here at the crest you can see that he is still using the original one in the 1600s oh yeah but the reindeer head has added to it yeah the Stags heads cropped up above oh yeah that's interesting this is a Memento Mori he is alive when it's taken but he's on the verge of death really yeah that's what the skull is yeah this is the oldest image we have of a Morgan of tredegar isn't it yes yeah it is and also he's the oldest Morgan of tadiga because he lived in 93. yeah that is why they put a skill in there they reminded me he had to go one day you know twice a natural life expectancy at the time you know I mean that's just phenomenal isn't it he was extremely old he may not quite have been as old as they claim because if you look at his university entrance dates it suggests that he might have been in his late 80s when he died rather than 93 but you need to remember that this is the time where people would lie about their age in the other direction of Raglan Castle who claimed that he was 80 odd and he died at 60 yeah I think yeah yeah yeah that's yes that's right that's interesting in there oh I didn't mean that yeah I doubted I never realized that what do you remember did you remember anything about old Subway because he used to be in the guilt room at tradega house didn't he um well yeah I mean he had he was always um there's always that debate as to whether he'd lost a finger or not because that glove I think he's just put he's just blocking the page yeah I think he's just a slightly rubbishy drawing but it doesn't seemed to be an important ridiculous gap between thumb and finger there so perhaps he might have only hit David I just suggest he had that um his big claim to face he crops up during the English Civil War the Civil War isn't it because they were um Morgan County were moderate royalists at the time as they were Protestant families who supported the rights of King over Parliament so um obviously they were well on they were on the sign of Charles the first um through a lot for a lot of the time yeah and he does become Charles the first rolls up to the house after the battle of naseby which is a total disaster but the royalists and he decides to Rally his uh his Welsh supporters in the marches and he starts off at trudega house pops across the Cardiff come back to tuniga house and then heads his way up uh you know repair a castle where The Clapper as well apparently there you go yeah growing a Clapper um repair a castle and then up to places like and eventually pops out right at the top of Wales at um Castle so he works all the way right up through the borders it was the worst PR Campaign World VR campaign probably since prince Andrew I should imagine yeah um because everywhere he turned up as soon as he left they changed sides because he was personally a great disappointment it's very strange because I feel this idea that obviously the divinely appointed king would somehow be an awe-inspiring semi-divine figure himself um and Charles the first of all that when he was a little short Bandy leggy bloke who wasn't very pre-possessing so as yeah so it was a fact to it he may not have been the only Factor but it was a factor in it that personally he didn't have the Charisma to sway the people he was trying to sway um I think don't think the Morgans did change sides but they certainly managed to sit on the fence a bit how old are they uh oh you have an R well there Mr Heaven oh well I have a few things because the Morgans as we know have gone through all these rebellions so it worked well one word yeah the rest didn't but they're pretty cautious at this point because you know they've managed to build this sort of empire in southeast Wales you don't want to wreck it all do you no um so well and Sir William is lucky because he's old so he doesn't have to take part in the Civil War he does what he's told by the local authorities he sees his guns and whatever from houses but he does only really what he's told and a lot of that is to do with religion yeah low as a young man he may have had Catholic sympathies and he was in trouble with brawling in the streets and Star Chamber got involved in the usual Morgan bad behavior he became an ultra Protestant by the time of the Civil War part of that might have been on it might have been but part of it might have been the the Rivalry with the Raglan Castle Catholic Somerset Marcus of Worcester family it was you know later but it's interesting as we discovered you know that the manga show is a Catholic stronghold really uh so that's quite interesting he's flowing against the the trend of the the other Gentry there so much so you mentioned um you made an allusion to Joseph McCarthy earlier on have you or have you ever been a member well it was very McCarthy like what he did to the Catholics he made a list of known Catholics in monmouthshire and declared them including his own cousins the Morgans of lanternum oh god oh well now this is a very good thing to do if you want to get on the right side of Cromwell yeah in the parliamentarians so he's paying lip service to the royalists it would appear but he really hates Raglan really hates the somersets at Raglan Castle but he has parliamentarian sympathizing sons and he has a royalist Catholic son from his second marriage called Sir Anthony Morgan who was here at Edge Hill the Battle of Edge Hill in 1642 as a Cavalier and was knighted at Edge Hill I should point out that such was the chaos Charles the first Edge Hill did in fact Knight two people who were the wrong people [Laughter] did you pass any of the other post boy you might get a sword on the shoulders just take it yeah getting a bit of night crazy there he's not in everyone yeah I mean at Edge Hill it's one thing so in later Years sir Anthony Morgan this Catholic royalist was not in Old sir William's will at all oh nothing like completely too dangerous so he's he's basically so basically the worst possible man to turn up at tredega house when you're trying to sit on the fence a bit Yeah 1645 is this man so Charles the First turns up as Goff has said and they look after him and then send him on his way to rupera well Cardiff Castle then to repair via Guinea Clepper and um it's quite big because this is the only real reign in Monarch that has ever sort of slept at tredegar house King Charles the first through the old part of it this is right yeah they were never lots of people a couple were planning and turning up never got there there was it absolutely right I'm really disappointed that your favorite Monarch in a thousand years of History Edward VII was supposed to stay at tradega housing in the end didn't which was a real blow God by the way has played Edward VII in a murder mystery at tredego house twice twice was it twice yeah yeah I like I'd like to however if I invite you to build a mission I used to write the parts I like to play I'm gonna be Chesterton at some point I decided yesterday would be great but yeah he's an unfortunate it's a it's a difficult time um for William at this point isn't it it's not uh it's not his careful plan of managing sort of in a way rat everybody out oh that's the Trevor Williams poem so Trevor Williams and flan Gibby was the Weathervane all right related to the Morgans and so Trevor Williams is parliamentarian royalist parliamentarian royalist Clubman yeah podcast do go and have a little look yeah but there is one point now goth this used to be your favorite story about old Sir William and it's been so long since you've had a chance to see it it was actually about to Trevor Williams rather than Sir William Morgan but at one point the King It was decided that they were hinderers the king had decided that they might need to execute them and there were tears involved that's right yeah apparently he was yeah William was so upset the story that the prospect of being executed because he was in his 90s that the idea that yeah the ladies let him off he went oh God the only man ever to be too upset to be executed it was either him or Sir Trevor Williams oh I don't know what we know of Trevor Williams it probably sounds a bit more like him yeah Trevor Williams but yeah but yeah but William a bit upset the idea that was the story they used to have but anyway for our we do he was referred to there was it as the malignant William Morgan yes he was and then the parliamentarians took Newport wasn't he he was but to be fair the poor old boy hadn't done anything really and he was only against again isn't that interesting his defense is essentially I'm against Raglan that's the same defense that more than the rebel made in the 13th century in Gilbert declare I'm not against who aim against declare he's I'm not against the um against Wrangler and Lord Wrangler yeah it's the local it's the interesting element yeah anyway he had a son Thomas Morgan of Mackin and Thomas Morgan of Macken really did seem to go over to Parliament yeah and because he was arrested by the royalists as the Hinderer again Hinderer they love that word yeah hinder of the relief of Hereford a lot of this is to do with religion because Thomas Morgan refused to serve under Edward Herbert early in the Civil War because he was a Catholic all this helps the Morgans this is probably why the religious aspect is why and a bit of stability is probably why the Morgans don't have their estate sequestrated after Charles the first is executed in 1649 and we get the cromwellian protectorate in fact Thomas Morgan sits in the parliament in 1654. oh interesting in the protectorates yeah but of course golf you see the thing is yeah although Cromwell is in charge yeah there's another man out there somewhere isn't there and that other man is the Prince of Wales and he is out there somewhere and what happens if the king comes back and Cromwell goes you need to sit on that fence again don't you yep yeah which is what the Morgans appear to have done one eye on Holland yeah where Charles II is just in case yeah he comes back yeah which brings us to again you see another little bit of the Old Stone tredega House so William Morgan where King Charles the first stayed well at some point there anyway and this is a spoiler really isn't it yes spoilers everybody you know that's the ring of the stone of the brick building which we shall be looking at in a future episode you know I don't know how we managed to get through this is the thing if you've just clicked on this in a leisurely fashion you know what I'd like to know something about tredegar house you're probably looking in horror now that we haven't haven't actually yet reached the tradega house you know of oh yeah yes I did warn you part of the the the puzzle of this family isn't it is that they were so rooted within this area for such an incredibly long time and she said they had that in very very solid local Focus which you even pick up in the 19th century when we get there you'll find what they where they talk about their their Roots within an area um they yeah I mean no obviously their antecedents do not go all the way back to the Second Son of nowhere but I mean a little lady in Hereford oh bless her little lady in Hereford but no but he's like but you know they do go back into the Dark Ages at least so you're looking at you know Morgan's floating around um as you know I said right in the into the 700s or more I mean that Courtney Lords the uh third Lord um was it a coal Commission in Caribbean he said that there was land that they'd land they broke into three types inherited purchased and owned Playa to 1066. so that is the that is the that is what it would be a tax Dodge That Couldn't it yeah well yeah dodging edge with the first but um yeah no I think it's just that they I think it's they're um this is why there's so much to talk about them which is why it's going to take three episodes because we again when we were near even halfway through you know you're at the start we're just this is our family that there's Club this is a family that's clung on in this area for countless centuries already but no this is what it's going to take off because they finally perhaps to the right side I was going to ask you can you Golf and this is very unfair to spring on you without giving away any spoilers what do you think people can look forward to in our 17th and 18th and early 19th century episode what can they expect you can expect a very good uh marriage Alliance that connects them with major aristocratic figures you have all the Georgian the rebel tree of horse racing and [ __ ] fighting um we have yeah documented servants which are very interesting to talk about as well and the fam and ultimately a very very uh notorious court case that almost brings them down and ultimately the end of the Morgans watch this space watch this space we will be back I don't know if we'll be back next with that or whether we'll just do another property and then you know do part two of the Morgans further down the line but it's a little tease of this one isn't it yeah and um thank you so much for joining us and uh thank you as ever goth usually we just talk about this sort of thing in pubs we'll probably talk more about this in the pub but but for those who have joined us thank you very much and thank you for subscribing uh which we're now doing pretty well and we will be back very soon with more yeah so thank you very much

Channel: Little Knowledge Podcast

Views: 2,562

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Id: 3hdMvZfnpgo

Length: 81min 20sec (4880 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 08 2023