Training fatigue, Motivation, Recovery and More - Ask a Cycling Coach 411

welcome to the ask a cycling coach podcast presented by trainer road today we are going to talk about training fatigue like what how do you recognize it what to do when it starts to creep up on you maybe the decisions most importantly the decisions that led into it so then we can all get a better fix on when it happens and how to avoid we're going to talk about motivation we're going to talk about recovery uh but we also first things first here uh pretty exciting we have uh pivot cycles and DT Swiss is Hannah Auto with us Hannah you raced uh two races I think over the past weekend short track and cross-country Olympic down in San Diego uh UCI race so you've got um Kate Courtney Gwen Gibson we've got you we've got Haley Batten we've got like it's a it's a Maddie Monroe really heavy hitter field uh for here in the states so what did you learn racing short track and then also racing xco with them yeah this was our first big UCI race in the states so the way I was viewing this was this was kind of even though I'd raced in Puerto Rico already this was kind of that transition from preseason to now we are full on in season so the first thing was you know you train all winter and you want to know like is it transferring to the races right so I think the first thing I really learned was I gained a lot of confidence in my training I think the trajectory for the season looks good um I actually felt really strong in all the races which was awesome um I felt super in control and you know hindsight's 2020 Woulda Coulda Shoulda like that's the whole point in racing um but looking back I'm like oh if only I'd done this and if only I'd done this maybe I could have finished even higher um so I was fourth in both races and so in hindsight looking back I think a lot of that was tactics um so a couple very specific things I learned with tactics the first son was short track was um about 45 seconds in a wide wide open area and then another minute that was all single track so there was no passing so that 45 seconds was really the place where you had to make it happen um and so that made for me a little bit anxious at least and so I think I made two significant mistakes there the first was there's one time um well I guess they actually kind of went together so one time I was coming down the single track and I was actually leading and I was looking back as the single track was snaking and I thought wow it is really strung out you know because if you have a group of 10 people and you're all lined up that 10th wheel is pretty far back you're like 20 seconds behind at that point exactly and so in my mind my thought in that moment and the excitement was the second I come out of this corner I'm just gonna carry speed and I'm gonna attack back really hard um and that isn't that was not the move because I was on the front already and I know we talk about this a lot in crits um but maybe you don't think about it as much on the mountain bike is you don't want to attack from the front of the group and so even though that group was strung out and even though that 10th person was 20 seconds back they had a direct line to my wheel so not only did I burn matches unnecessary matches in that attack I mean it was like 20 seconds at 600 watts which for me that's a pretty solid attack for big people too so you know I burned a lot of matches and I didn't gain any ground because it was just strung out so that was probably my biggest mistake in short track um and then I think in xco you know basically what happened was we started I uh wanted to be a little bit more conservative on the start two girls got off the front early because it was in single track and there was someone who wasn't descending quite as strong so they got a little bit of a gap and they were off the front and so then I was in a position where I needed to be able to bridge that Gap somehow but I didn't want to carry everyone with me because it was really really windy and I tried on a couple different places to attack and I just even though I felt like I was the strongest I was not bridging I was not gaining the ground that I wanted to gain and so as the race was going on I was thinking gosh what am I doing wrong even though I feel so strong in this group why can I not close this Gap and I think it was because I was attacking in all the wrong places I was attacking in the most difficult places in the course there were also really short-lived and so people could gut it out in these short 30 second climbs so I was trying to attack and finally on the last lap it occurred to me I need to attack where it's unexpected where I have a long amount of time to gain this and so finally I attacked it on a place in the course where I had about a three-minute climb that was super gradual it wasn't expected it gave me a lot of time to string it out and that's how I was ultimately able to get that Gap in order to finish fourth but I think if I had executed that earlier if I'd figured out that place earlier that would have given me the chance I needed to break away and then try and bridge that Gap earlier in the race this is uh the thought that comes this is really cool you need you know the saying like the juice is worth the squeeze sort of a thing like you're trying to like get as much as you can for a certain action and that's a really good point with attacks thinking about where is the spot where I can because if you attack in technical sections then you have to slow down you're governed by something so where's the spot where I don't have to be governed where an attack can actually have the most impact that's a really cool concept I I haven't really thought of it directly like that in mountain biking before but that's smart yeah yeah so we'll see I'm going to Fayetteville for the next UCI races um this coming week so I'll have a chance to try it all over again Sweet uh and everybody should go follow Hannah on Instagram so they can check that out that'd be awesome sorry Ivy go ahead it sounds so stressful being on a course like that where you just have to go Bonkers for like 45 seconds and then the rest part where you want to rest you can't feels like or sounds like you can't really rest in those technical single track sections like you have to be on the whole time sounds exciting yeah I do think it's really stressful because you have this whole course that you have to be on for yet you find yourself on the start line like oh my gosh the next 30 seconds of this hour and a half race are gonna dictate so much um and I think that's an important thing for everyone to know who does XTO racing is when the course gives you opportunity to pass and then gives you a single track or a place where you can't pass you do have to take that into consideration with your strategy and take advantage of those passing off opportunities uh Anna you had good results but Kevin and a person who wrote in that trainerroad.com podcast didn't have a good result and he's wondering why we should get into it we also have our CEO Nate Pearson with us uh good to have you Nate so uh Kevin says I started my race career as a way to recover from a hip replacement at the age of 44. I became instantly hooked when I took second place at the sea otter classic in my first ever race it was cross-country Olympic which sea otter to be clear isn't the typical cross-country Olympic race like it's more um it's faster more wide open and it's one big loop instead of doing repeated laps like well Hannah was just talking about and uh Kevin mentions that they raced cat 3 which in mountain biking for those that don't know that's the beginning category um that's the one where you start out so uh Kevin goes on to say as I've continued to race in advance to cat 2. I've come to realize that a Podium result is more the expectation and less the rule here I am meaning that It's tricky to do when you move up in the category here I am five years later still racing Cat 2 and cross-country Olympic and Cat 1 in a local short track series I know expecting a Podium finish is not a sustainable way to race so I've adjusted my expectations but I still find myself less motivated to race in a Time discouraged by my results as a result my race day mental game is suffering I recently quit a short track race Midway Midway through even though I could have persevered to the finish so what mental tricks do other Racers use to stay sharp and focused at the start and through a race even though they aren't a race favorite or don't have a chance at a Podium or top 10 in larger Fields great question uh Kevin Hannah maybe we start with you then we go to Ivy and then Nate you can share some thoughts on this too I think I'm the only one that actually has this everyone else podiums all the time that is not true [Laughter] yeah I think I think this is a great question and you know when I first started in the Pro field a Podium was way out of the realm of possibility for me even standing on the start line I knew I would not Podium on that day and if I had given in to that early on in my career I wouldn't be where I am now and it would have been discouraging in that sort of trajectory upward and so I think there's two things that really helped me on that Journey the first is focusing on your process and performance goals so process goals are things that you have complete control over um that could be your nutrition throughout the race um that could be warming up really well it's things that exactly like the word is the process um so first focus on knocking all of those out the next are performance goals those are still things that you have control over um but it's more say power oriented so you might not be able to achieve it it's a little bit further outside the realm but it doesn't involve other people so focus on things like I'm going to hold x amount of power on this climb um or I'm gonna hold this amount of power for the first lap or my times are only going to decrease 10 across the whole race or my power is only going to decrease 10 in the second half the race whatever it might be um those are your performance goals and then when you finish even if you don't Podium you can look back and say you know I wasn't on the podium but I did every single thing that was within my control to try and get there so I don't actually have an excuse to be disappointed because I achieved everything that I thought I could on the start line and then you almost force that happiness yes the second thing is just because you're not on the podium doesn't mean you can't have a good result for you and I think a good result is just defined by an improvement so if you were 20th last week don't focus on being on the podium next week just focus on being higher than 20. um and that can be your victory that can be your win and so I would start looking at where you're finishing in this field and just focus on being a little bit further up every race and who knows you might surprise yourself in a Podium might become something you get in the future nice good stuff uh how about you ivy I was just thinking how much of a kind of curse it is to have success right away uh when you first start racing right and then it becomes maybe not an expectation but like you know what it tastes like to do well and and then you know you want to keep you want to keep doing that when you don't um I feel like Racers that do this while they're racing are constantly doing this like math in their head of where their competitors are and where they're where they are and I have like absolutely seen what Kevin has done seen other Racers do this in a race where if they're not like near the podium when they want to be even if it's not a realistic expectation it's like pull the plug and start coasting and totally give up and start taking hand-ups and you know like well it's over and so um while Kevin's uh headspace I imagine during these races is very much fixated on other Racers and where they are in relation to the podium um I still don't think that it's staying sharp throughout the race or you know focusing like Kevin said is what is holding them back I think it's coming from a place of having a goal that they're measuring for success in the race um that is different from an expectation um but then as soon as you know that's without outside of reach or something like Kevin's just not focusing on um on those process goals that Hannah was talking about you know um very much about the other writers and when you start racing and that's how you learn to race so it's kind of hard to get out of that headspace yeah well said I I that actually what you just said Ivy makes me think of I received what I thought was really wise Insight from Chloe Woodruff one time um and she said if you ever find yourself in a race thinking that you should be in a different position than you are you're wrong you should be wherever you are in that race so you just need to focus on the battle at hand and I think about that a lot because I think we all have a tendency to have that exact thought only race I shouldn't be here or I should be higher up and those shoulds are just not helpful you need to stay positive and present with exactly where you are that's really good advice and then regardless of the outcome or whoever is there that is faster than you you are still looking inwardly and thinking about where you should be in the race regardless of that other stuff and what else is happening it's cool when you get to that space Nate your thoughts these are fantastic points that are all resonating with me personally by the way so even though you say you're the only one Nate um I I've struggled with this too this is a pretty close to what both of you were already saying but it says process goals versus outcome goals if you focus on our outcome goal in a race you don't know who's going to show up it's so hard even going from 20 to 15 . y'all been a race right where sometimes it's easy and then sometimes so many fast people show up you actually raced better but your placement is lower that is so tough mentally and for me for mountain biking I would focus on like I don't think I guess I did Podium on some lower level categories but I would focus on I'm going to hit this turn smoother this time on the laps I'm going to do uh I'm not going to be as uh Punchy on this climb I'm gonna you know maintain power better uh I'm gonna take this turn better all those things are the process things that in the raise that I try to focus on and I if I improve in the race and I keep writing better and I get 15th or 20th that's like such a win though right because you got better and you improved and that's what you need to do those process goals in order to become a faster racer and do better in the future yeah I uh anytime I've experienced this across racing motocross skiing uh cycling everything and in every situation when I've experienced it it's because I have um all I'm doing all the things wrong like you're saying I'm placing it and it used to be like it was a it was against the competition and where I'm sitting against the competition isn't where I had envisioned but then it also started to become I had too high of expectations for myself like regardless of the competition entirely I just had too high of expectations for myself and what I could deliver on that day wasn't exactly what I had in mind and what I thought I could do and in those situations man what you just said is so Phantom what Chloe said to you is so fantastic and it resonates with me the best races I've had Nate I don't know if this resonates with you but like the best races I've had or when I'm not really thinking about something before or after but I'm right there in the moment and it's like I'm engaging in some sort of battle or I'm making all the small little chess moves and that feels so good um I imagine it's kind of like what like a jazz musician feels like or something when they're like if they're playing or just any musician when they're playing live with somebody and they're working with each other in those moments and it's like you're just kind of lost in the process of doing that and it feels so good and when you can race and do that and whether it's looking at turns and hitting those or doing anything else that's great um if I can just reiterate one bit of advice that Hannah said that I thought was really good for mountain bikers in particular and cyclocross this could be helpful is and because this will stop people from and we're going to get into this this is a bit of foreshadowing for a question later but starting too hard hard what a great rule to kind of put for yourself to say I'm not going to let my lap times drop or deviate more than 10 from each other like from the first lap or from the fastest lap whatever lap that is to the slowest lap there isn't going to be bigger than a 10 Gap and what that could do I because I find in a lot of situations athletes have great Fitness or they have great something but then it's just the execution sabotages the fitness that they had or sabotage is the great like position they put themselves in in the race and it's just a bad decision and usually it's tied to pacing particularly in mountain biking if you start slow especially in like middle to lower categories and even cat one categories if you if you weren't going to be battling with the front you might as well start slow because it's gonna likely end up in a faster Race by the end and give you a chance to like get that exhilarating feeling of passing people and coming through the field at the end instead of just blowing up and kind of trickling backward but yeah it always comes from too much stress and anxiety that I'm putting on myself to perform at some level whether that's based on other people or just myself that's that's my experience with it so great advice crushed it uh Maria's question and this is the one that we're going to talk about and starting too hard Maria says what's the best way to figure out the mismatch in my training and my performance at an event so I recently completed a 50k mountain bike marathon race and to prepare for this event I created a custom Training plan looking back on my training I believe I completed it close to what was prescribed and looking at Maria's training she did perform quite well in terms of uh checking off the workouts that were there uh that were scheduled so fantastic job Maria a bit about my event performance overall I felt solid during the event uh 64 of the four plus hour event was in the threshold Zone big red flag to me instantly hearing that right so we're talking about a race that in this case is like uh two and a half to three hours I believe we'll we'll see the stuff a little bit later but two and a half to three hours 64 in threshold yikes that's going to be really tough the remainder was in Tempo I felt strong on the technical single track and felt like I could keep going even though my heart rate was high and then in parentheses I wonder if this has to do with short recoveries that you frequently get on flowy single track overall how I felt after the initial climb and the HR data suggested me that I worked hard and which I'm happy with but the disappointing part was my performance on the 1.5 mile climb from the start so this really hard climb right in the beginning within the first minute my heart rate was within the threshold Zone and I watched everyone push ahead my legs were burning and when we hit the Super Seat pitches I just gave up and walked so my question is where did I go wrong in creating my training plan what should I have done differently is there a trainer Road feature that I did not utilize that could help me better perform and or perform better in future events I'm questioning my ability to train to continue with trainer road because of this so I'm hoping you can restore my faith and continue enjoying trainer road which I love so is a great question and this Maria in a lot of situations this model is exactly what I was talking about in the sense that we have a disappointing outcome so the first thing we do is like must have been the training and we step back and look at the training which is a healthy thing to do you should step back and look at what's going on but there's also the execution side of things and just I'm going to run through some basic notes I uh you linked to your career and everything Maria so I went through there and I checked some things out and I just want to share some notes that'll give us some ground for them conversation for all of us uh so looking at Maria's historical training volume and everything else over time uh over in the period of this race looking at your six-week average TSS it was double your highest TSS you've ever done before so you were doing a ton of training coming into this much more so than you've done in the past so um in that respect you can expect that and since you know you're building up through and you were training for this but just the same that's a lot so you kind of have to err on the side of caution whenever you're thinking about adding in extra training if you're already really high so with that in mind I look back and you've done really big events before like Transylvania gravel epic gravel race before but you had a substantial taper coming into that so you like didn't do a whole lot of riding and you didn't do training coming into that he had a big basically time to relax before then and then also the terrain not as technical as the mountain bike race but here's the big kickers looking at this so the week prior to your event was the biggest volume that you've had in a long time it was 80 bigger than the prior week and then in addition to that it was 75 more TSS than what you had scheduled and if you look at this it's almost in in every you do this in your training sometimes this is really common and I I kind of want to call it like the low volume trap which we're going to hit on later on uh as well but when you add on those really hard really big weekend rides and you do it the week before you probably dosed yourself with quite a lot of fatigue coming into this you're already sitting at the record high TSS levels and then the week before the race you added in extra and you made it one of your biggest weeks then you go into your race week and uh you can expect in those situations that your performance won't be ideal right because you've added on so much TSS so with that context in mind um let's talk about what that's this context of the start climb was really hard one and a half miles looked down the heart rate it was Sky High ended up watching the field walk away and then having to walk it and that was like a big core disappointment of this race um what occurs to you and actually maybe um yeah let's go to Hannah again first but what occurs to you Hannah in terms of what may have gone wrong on the execution side considering everything we've already talked about yeah this is star red um and if you're not used to that it can be super overwhelming um so I immediately go to a couple thoughts one you need to practice those and I know trainer Road has some great hard start workouts so maybe you included those um and they were in their plan by the way she's doing great hard start workouts because the plan was you we should use plan Builder and within plan Builder it was cross country marathon and that has a lot of hard start sort of efforts so awesome that Park was good so great so that means we can check that out that wasn't the issue you practice practice those um the next thought I go to is what was your warm-up like because especially for some of these longer races we think you know it's a long day in the South I probably don't need to warm up as much because they don't want to burn as many matches and that's a valid thought but if it's gonna start on a mile and a half climb like this it's going to go out really hard you do need to warm up um so if you didn't your body might have been just kind of in shock as it entered into that hard state so um yeah definitely warm up if you didn't that could be something to look at and then thirdly what were your mental preparations like because when we go this hard off the start line I think our brain sort of sets off this alarm in our head of oh my gosh this is a long race you're already hurting stop stop stop stop stop so if you're not ready for that those alarm signals are really scary and overwhelming and they can lead to that what you said I gave up and I walked um so that tells me maybe you just weren't quite mentally prepared to suffer that hard from the gun and so I think it would be really valuable and that's okay it's a learning lesson and I think it'd be really valuable for you now you know this the next race mentally prepare for that no hey it's gonna be really hard off the start here and that's okay because it's going to slow down and I'm willing to push my body into that pain cave and then I know that it'll get easier um and so I think that mental preparation is really critical and then if you still find that even with that mental preparation you're just not quite up to Snuff with that start at least you've mentally prepared and now you can switch that mindset and say hey everyone's going really really hard right now and I know they're going to ease up so even though I'm getting dropped I'm not going to give up and then you you even said the rest of your race was great so maybe you're just gonna pass all those people anyways but if you let yourself get into that disappointed mindset already in the first mile and a half the race that definitely takes away energy and takes away maybe some potential ability later on Maria so I have a slightly different than Hannah but it's like the same Maria you're not racing for the win mile and a half climb you should not be in threshold one minute in you went way way too hard you should so many times I've done this where you start on a long climb like everybody passes me and then over the race you start passing person after person after person you see them all again because there's no thank you you do a hard start workout do a hard start workout where one minute you go really hard and now try to hold even Sweet Spot your your heart rate's still going to be in threshold if you would have just done sweet spot the whole time uh you'd be much more relaxed and this race took her four hours and 20 minutes there's no reason on a mile and a half climb I'm guessing this is a fire Road climb uh to go that hard to try to stay with anyone on this race and I looked at it there's like three long climbs I don't know if it's single track or not but even if I mean if you're a Hannah Ivy Jonathan they do go hard to stay with that group and get that benefit but if you're I think you'll go much much faster overall if you just pace yourself and especially because you don't have a power meter if in one minute you're at threshold power your power was way higher than threshold it was VO2 max or above uh and that's how you got to that heart rate so quickly so don't do that yeah well I said yeah I just want to say I think that's excellent advice uh totally Echo that I also didn't realize that this individual didn't have a power meter so another thing to think about in that is if you're using heart rate to measure your effort at the beginning of the race it might be a little skewed anyways because you're nervous maybe you've had caffeine um all kinds of things that lead into the start of a race and so I actually personally would if I don't have power I wouldn't use heart rate I'd use that I'd use rate of perceived exertion especially at the start of a race just because you might be standing on the star line with a heart rate of 120 already just from nerves we're going to talk about this at the end of the podcast today but I think almost the majority of last week I was in the threshold heart rate zone before Iron Man Oceanside like usually when people hear the waves or like see the waves it's like nice and relaxing and I was just like like my heart rate just like stayed so I was terrified so yeah good point look looking at this um at the actually map her climbs were their streets their roads so they're not single track so even more reason why not to go hard and to uh oh and at the very beginning of the race rpe lies it's a liar like do you think how many time travels I've done so many time trials where I'm like well I can hold 400 watts for this whole race I can't believe it and then about a minute I'm like oh never mind I literally and this this happens to everyone even Pros I literally did a time trial the other day um just in training where I started and I was like huh 400 watts for one minute power meter Muzzy off today and then a minute in I was like nope body's off yeah Ivy uh I think we underestimate as athletes that train of power how well we really know writing by rpe and how frequently we forget to utilize it in a circumstance like this like when we train in power um well I hope not I hope you're not just staring at your uh head unit you know but I think we're better equated with what those uh efforts really feel like as we're doing them and forget to utilize it in a circumstance like this when you don't have power and and you know that translate from right from writing indoors um to going outside and not having a power meter like you still no one that ever feels like um and just when I Go Hannah that there is maybe a mental preparation aspect that was neglected here and it's so easy to misdiagnose where things go wrong I totally empathize with that like have a bad race and be like I need blood work I don't know something's wrong with me I need to move cities and it's like nope actually I just rest just rest I forgot to eat yesterday probably one didn't it and so uh you know I just urge Marie to keep being curious like it's great Maria that you listen to the podcast and um you know are asking these kinds of questions and trying to learn from people about what you should change and what could go wrong because I think the more we do that as athletes the more uh easy will be to correctly identify those issues um and yeah that's something I've struggled with for sure but keep being curious and you know DM John all your questions and um wide open Jonathan underscore I see you there yeah um oh I was just gonna say I I just wanted to take a moment to be a cheerleader for Maria because if the race was four hours plus and the only disappointing part was the mile and a half at the start man you crushed it um so great work it sounds like your training was awesome leading into it and prepared you really well this was like so cool about cycling uh Marie's an accomplished cyclist you know doing all these tough events and they're you know thinking about what Hannah had said about short track and strategy for Kevin too like this is what's so cool about cycling you can be racing for 20 years or more and learn a whole new uh approach to executing even just training that makes it more enjoyable for you um cycling is cool okay sorry thanks for coming to my TED talk so more things about RP pacing at the beginning uh again I would for the first maybe two or three minutes go slower than you think you can everyone's gonna pass you and then use your ventilatory threshold where on a race like this I would never be in the third one so the you know the first is what we just have right here the second is kind of like squeezing in words between breaths maybe yeah you can kind of do it and the third is you can't stop here if you're one minute in and you're in the third ventilatory threshold and you have a mile and a half climb it you're going way too hard and I think that's a great way to pace yourself because heart rates can lie on race day right like like Hannah said uh we could go both both ways probably higher than it actually go both ways with tapers and stuff like that so I would definitely listen to your breath RP and feeling and go so much like that that first climb should not be that hard right if you're in a four and a half hour race you should get at the top and be like cool I can still I feel like I want to race uh not that you want to push your bike yeah and two Maria I want to say for every one of us mile and a half client we could go so hard that we all would push our bike where we could like just destroy ourselves and then not be able to make the whole climb this isn't something about lack of Fitness I think it's more of a pace where I got a message just this last week from an athlete and they said hey like I have my FTP increase to 301 Watts from 250 Watts I had great Fitness coming into this race and they're like and I completely like I dropped out of the crit that I did the first race of the Season like what is this like what do I not have Fitness so I asked them to share the link to their race file and for the first I kid you not for the first five minutes of that race which I'm thoroughly impressed with the power they averaged 375 watts for the first five minutes and I was I was like hey I don't care what Fitness you have if you do 375 minute or 375 watts or the first five minutes you're gonna be blown and then if the field who was probably just chilling behind this athlete comes right by you that doesn't mean that they're way more fit than you that just means that you executed incorrectly and this is so important uh for athletes to in this process of breaking down a bad result you need to look at the training objectively and in this case look back at what you did the week before it's so tempting the week before like in this case Maria went out and did a pretty big ride on the Saturday before this Saturday race um it added in a lot of TSS it was pretty tough It's really attempting to do that and pre-writing is a really big trap to fall into when you can in this case it wasn't pre-write of the course but I see this commonly with athletes they go and pre-ride the course but it's basically like doing the Race just doing it a week ahead of the time and then they have to go and do it again the next week so look at that week before was it really heavy it that week before should be substantially Less in terms of time and TSS than what you've been doing leading up into that that's what tapers are and that's what gets built into when you use like a custom play on the trainer Road then after that you need to look at how you came into the race and how you executed and it's really important then you can look at nutrition and pacing and all that other stuff that that really is the art of using the fitness that you've built but that's kind of the flow chart to roll through that I would suggest that race the 370 for five minutes that was 125 of threshold for five minutes that is like a if you're gonna do a VO2 max test like what's my power PR that's how long you would do it yeah and then think about then finishing the crit after anyone's ever done that outside those are the worst like you want to fall off your bike so I could say I've done that before too though haven't you Nate like I mean I've done that before like where I just completely blow up the start of a race and I rode too hard and it was foolish of me to do so it's not like it's we're we're standing on some sort of like you know Alabaster throne here pointing down at the rest and a crit and Reno after this is like 13 years ago yeah I died in about I think I lasted like three laps then I was like nope can't do this yeah yeah we all do it uh but for great insights from from this whole thing so um if you're listening right now and you have a situation like this that you want to send in maybe you want us to like check things out with your career and all that uh send it in trainerroad.com podcast that's where all the questions come from if you want to get fast like Maria would be amazing uh Fitness coming into this thing then you go to trader.com and sign up it'll make you faster uh Ivy I kind of want you to kick this one off I'm going to read the question but uh I want you to share your Insight on this it's from Tyler uh Tyler says Hey Trader road crew I have a question regarding recovery rides I've committed to doing every one of my low volume cyclocross workouts this year way to go and three weeks in and I can feel myself getting stronger what like uh we talk about like uh I don't know focus with your training or Vision or like prioritizing most important things what a really good way to look at this of being like I'm committing to hitting my workouts like instead of like I'm committing to getting faster or I'm committing to something else because all those things are so plenty they can get in the way and then we engineer our own minds in our own minds like how to get faster I like this I'm just like hitting all my workouts on a low volume plan it's great however I have a recovery week coming up and I plan to do some of those rides outside last summer I found I really enjoyed taking my recovery rides super easy basically noodling around on the bike for an hour and then getting home and feeling really refreshed is there a downside to approaching my recovery week rides as almost a Z1 ride or should I be looking for something closer to Z2 watching heart rate and power Etc thanks for everything from Tyler cool well from a physiological standpoint can it hurt you to do uh Zone I guess they're asking if it's bad to do Zone one instead of zone two probably not in your recovery day but can it from a mental standpoint can it hurt uh when you're considering the purpose of recovery week to uh fixate on the difference between Zone one and zone two sure good um especially if you know Tyler's feeling super refreshed at the end of these recovery rides uh I don't think it's um because of the difference of those few Watts between Zen one and one two I think it's because he's really just loving himself absolutely enjoy the relaxation of rest day and let it serve its purpose to rejuvenate him and so while there are times and workouts um you know many intentional intervals that we can think of where focusing on the last few percentage of your power Target is really important this isn't one of those times because the purpose of your recovery is a fundamental goal is to just you know keep it chill and use it that time to feel restored and refreshed for the workouts that are really really important that you need to nail later that week so no it's not going to hurt you to do own one instead of zone two and keep getting the most out of those recovery rides and let it be chill that's super great this is how you uh how do you approach like your recovery weeks and and to be clear a recovery week isn't a be week when you're like off the bike you're still on the bike that sort of thing it's just you know different workouts at a recovery week last week and I uh spent one entire day um I'm in the Bay Area I'm I'm not I won't go back to Montana until it's done snowing there so I'm avoiding home some of the Bay Area training and stuff and um uh I spent one of my recovery days uh took a backpack and my bike over to like the San Francisco city proper and just rode around super chill and some of the hills are really Steep and I paperboyed and took my time to make sure I had stayed relaxed and got pizza and saw all the tourist sites and it was great um so that's how I approached my recovery weeks like there are times when I'm like oh I'd have to get out and you know I'll go on the specific route and maybe work on these technical skills and other times I'm like yeah I'm just gonna go ride my bike to get a piece of pizza it'll be great um yeah and then I feel super excited to actually do structure training the week that follows because of it I feel super refreshed it's a huge key Hannah how about you yeah I think that this is something that that has taken me a long time in my career to come to and I think a lot of people can probably relate to that because as cyclists a lot of us are type A athletes and so we want to do everything a hundred percent all the time perfectly um and Recovery weeks gosh sometimes that's just exhausting like truly um and so there's been a lot of times in my life where I have a recovery ride but I have to squeeze it in between this and that and I have to wake up at 5am to get this done and that done or maybe it's raining and I'm going out in the ride and riding in the rain to get my recovery ride in and that is just not the point the point of recovery is to truly recover and I always saw it as a sign of weakness to ease into that but now I actually see it as a sign of confidence um when I can say hey it's not worth it today I'm gonna go for a walk instead of a ride or I'm gonna stretch instead of doing this recovery day and I think that when you really can tap into that and find the confidence to know what you need to do in order to recover that's that's when you really you're not just doing the workouts you're achieving the overall goal um and that's that's what we're trying to do here it's the prep you for the next block to train hard and it's not just physically but it's also mentally what Ivy said because I get into that recovery week and I just like I don't want to do those easy rides and I want to tell everyone this is totally valid you have an hour one switch it to taku minus one that is the best uh I do it like sometimes without a fan then you watch Ted lasso your day will be amazing that that is the I think people don't do that enough as you think you you go you know really hard and if you get it you have to listen to your body sometimes that that three-week block is a lot and you might have to have the first day off then you do a taku you take a day off you do taku recess 30 you know like yeah exactly and when you again it's so you can hit that next workout and train um and there's also something else that I made a very rookie mistake um I take Vyvanse because Arrow shortage and this morning I think I took a sleeping pill instead of Vyvanse they're exactly the same you doing all right I'm gonna go upstairs and go get my Vyvanse so I'll be right back because I am crashing hard here I know I've done this once before the pills are the same color they're blue and white you just have like different writing on them oh my god oh I know yeah so this is like Nate just took like a shot of tequila and now it's like oh now let me have a shot of espresso right after it like chemicals in Nate's body upwards and downers the um I want to point something out we actually noticed this um so I it's interesting um there's this Obsession I think and and I think a lot of coaches too kind of Market themselves on this like they have like the best training plans or the best workouts and it's kind of like the secret interval combination that you need or something like that and what we've noticed and looking at our data at trainer road is that the the people that that improve regularly and consistently they're just consistent with their training and it's kind of funny like even like comparing like one plan to the next in most cases it just comes down to how consistently they follow the plan whether it made them faster or not sure that you see differences in terms of their Fitness profile and stuff but consistency is super important and that's our focus and for us one of the things that we noticed was athletes are doing too much in their recovery weeks and it whether and so what we did is we intentionally dropped if you look at all of our training plans now compared to a year ago you'll notice that the recovery weeks are easier than they used to be and it's because what we're trying to do is reinforce this make it easy and adding on top of that use workout alternates like Nate said and like if you have a workout that's like your recovery workout on there make it shorter make it easier and and do that because the point is um if you take the whole week off sometimes your body can kind of get into this mode where it's like thank you so much and I never want to go through strain again and then when you come back to training it can feel really tough so there's a point that we you know you stay on the bike and it's not like you're doing something hard but there's a point in staying on the bike in that regard I'm not really sure the mechanism that goes there it might just be Bro Science but that is something that's that's workout alternates is your friend during this these recovery weeks and make yourself your vision should be how to like just like Nate said how do I set myself up best for next week this is probably one of the biggest differences I've actually seen in Keegan's training in the past two years is that and I think it's because uh everything else was turned up so much that the rest weeks really had to be turned down uh and it's but he's a pro at rest weeks now very much going very easy this is not the time to add on like Ivy mentioned like uh there's Soul fulfilling rides like Soul rides that you go on but this probably isn't the time to go out with your friends and do that five hour ride that's really big that's not the week for it you can do it again and at some other point when it's not that week where you really need to set yourself up for success and sometimes you'll notice that you'd you do a week like that and you do a recovery week card and you feel fine the next week but the hard thing is is what happens two weeks later six weeks later ten weeks later when you've introduced this spot where you should have been recuperating but you weren't it has a long tail effect and it can kind of compound and affect you more later on um so that would be my advice on that don't don't don't diet on the recovery week I know you all want to yeah don't diet this is where your body's repairing itself uh again you're setting yourself up for training if you diet you're going to get into a whole it's so easy I've been there too you're like it is that hunger is turned up to 12 every weeks so listen to your body that's that's listen to what it is but how often though do you say ah I'm dieting so I shouldn't have this these extra like fake potato or something I should not do it easy to fall into the Trap right Nate because it's super tempting it's like I'm doing less work so I should take in less calories but that's not the reason the reason why your body's so hungry is because it needs fuel to repair like a day after the day after I lift weights my body's so hungry because it wants to be anabolic it wants to build muscle and if I don't give it that fuel it's not going to happen uh and two John's John's done this uh it's not the time I mean everyone has a life but it's not the time to do like I'm gonna redo the backyard on my recovery week and work eight hours a day and do all this stuff maybe you want to take an extra recovery week after that because you know there's life stuff happening and then the number one way I think during recovery week to actually recover add an extra hour of sleep every night that is by far the best way to recover and I think uh as you're eating sufficient calories sleep is probably even more important if you were down like 200 uh calories a day or something there was I mentioned this before there was a study where they did um the calorie matched people in a deficit in two groups and one had like nine hours of sleep per night and the other had like five I think and what happened is they both lost the same amount of weight something like over the course it was like seven pounds the the group that slept Less almost all of it was muscle and the group that slept enough it was almost all fat which is insane you know what I mean you do all this work and you want to change your body composition and you don't sleep you're just losing that muscle that you built and then you have to then do the process again and you're not going to get faster that way sleep is so important and it's so hard to like so hard to go to bed early chances are if you're training like you know four to five hours a week on a low volume plan right uh you're probably going to be doing closer to two hours of training two to three hours maybe during that recovery week take those hours that you would be on the bike and find ways to fit them into sleep that's like it's like a good basic rule is to hunt that basically whatever time I would be spending on the bike and I've cut down if you want to think very mechanistically about it make sure that you're allocating that much time throughout your week for Recovery activities whether it's sleeping or you know something else that's recuperative I had another thought okay Hannah you go I just want to take that to the next level same thing with what Nate said of not doing the yard work and adding the sleep if you want to go like really next level with your recovery week I would even take the time that you normally ride literally the time not just the hour but I always get on my bike from 6 to 7 P.M keep that block free don't let people come into it because it's only one week so if you start filling that time with appointments and you're available it becomes really hard then to protect that time again the next week because now your family your job your friends they all know that time is available if you just keep that time protected it's a lot easier to keep it protected in future weeks when you're training and then it really is an hour where it's like not I'm not riding or what whatever it might be that is just yours to play with maybe you take a nap maybe you meal prep I don't know maybe read whatever it is that you like I think that's a really nice time to protect that is a pro tip right there that is so cool and for those who uh have Partners that's something to communicate really far away right because you don't want to do it on that day and be like nah I just want to do this and to that protected time could also be handed with the partners say Let's go see a movie right like it could be a chill time but it's not the the other stuff um I have an idea I just said I could go to sleep maybe I've been switching the Vyvanse and the sleeping pills every night it's like I need to like oh no I'll do something else the truth comes out I feel like they're way too close in your cabinet if this is yeah they're they're all they're like they look like this and I just pull one and I'm like oh it's a blue pill [Laughter] I need to get those special bottles um oh that's another Pro tip for those who do take medication you can buy bottles online that tell you um the last time you open the bottle which is when you have ADHD so many times in the morning I go did I take my my antidepressant or my I don't know and I go look at it and go oh yeah I did very very important um I kind of have a food thing I want to go off for a second is that okay yeah for sure of course you guys heard of the creamy the ninja creamy I have it is this an ice cream thing yeah it's like I saw it on a tick tock so I haven't even used it yet but I'm sold based on tick tocks you basically you make your you make your base you freeze it and you put it in it and it makes looks like it makes amazing ice cream ice cream not like Haagen-Dazs ice cream frozen yogurt uh like smoothies it does different settings but the thing that is so cool about this is so I love some ice cream at night but I'm also lactose intolerant and I honestly don't want the profile of the sugar and stuff and sometimes it can be actually too sweet but what you can do in here is you can make like you know protein powder you can adjust the sweetness you can put in berries and they mix it into that and I'm hyping it up but it was relatively cheap like 150 or something but if I can get healthy ice cream every night that has like 30 grams of protein minimum sugar that sounds like heaven I'm not sponsored by them you can sponsor Ivy I was ready yeah man what if what if in the summer instead of like your protein drink after the ride you could just make that same drink into ice cream form so yeah oh people um people will take like a can of pineapple put it in a little thing freeze it for 24 hours and do it and you get like a Dole Whip from Disneyland yeah and you just get so instead of so if you want some fast carbs after your ride get some protein shake then you just eat like an ice cream cone of Dole Whip doesn't that sound amazing rather than like the crap we usually drink of like this is a sports sugar drink there's science to this too because the the the prolonged time at High Core temp after training delays recovery I've seen studies on this very thing and when you can the quickest way to drop your core temp is to ingest something that is frozen uh so like a slushy and icy anything else like that I could be I mean so basically what you're saying is this is science back and we all need to get ice cream machines but Hannah's I'm going to do this Hannah Hannah's the right idea a like a protein like a recovery ice cream this is a this is a whole Market because you could probably get the the you want sugar right and you can put the protein in there and then you can make it like we're gonna have strawberry ice cream tonight it's my daughter's birthday and then we're gonna do vanilla and mix in M M's we'll mix in M M's to you like a blizzard oh man I haven't tried it but just it might be all like content marketing and people all over Tick Tock but it sounds freaking amazing I can't believe you guys haven't been on oh go ahead just oh I just want Nate to post on they will say their opinions they are right they're huge Ramses yeah the strawberry one was made with strawberry extract rather than just plain strawberries so I'm gonna call that one uh Yeah question mark like don't don't knock it yet I'll do some more but if I can develop a tasty recovery ice cream after a heart ride oh man it gets so hot you sit down with some ice cream and eat that it'd be amazing I already do this every summer when you're like doing your protein shake and I just I I always put it in the blender like don't do I don't like the blender bottles like I want to put some like frozen fruit in there so that's like a little bit colder and in the summer when it's really hot and I'm opening the fridge I'm like I could do yogurt or I could just like put a couple scoops of ice cream in there and just like make a milkshake with protein in it it's awesome I I have not had ice cream in years because it uh because of lactose intolerance and it's like one of the biggest like things I feel like I miss out on I want it so they make fake ice cream now like tons of wine I checked it out and it's like the protein style ice cream it has so much fat like so many calories he's in it I know it doesn't have sugar but it has like so many so if I can make my own then I can control that and change that there is some lactose free ice cream but I I just make your own the fair life milk we can get in the U.S it actually has extra protein it's delicious my kids drink it uh it has like twice the amount of protein as regular milk I wonder if I just use oat milk or almond milk or something like that in this frizzy thing what's it called freezing no uh creamy creamy oh yeah do the um try the Fairlife milk I'm telling you I'm lactose intolerant I drink so much of it now and I have zero issues nice cool I'm in this is probably helping a lot of people I know you all think it's a tangent but I bet a lot of people are going to enjoy this so this was on the agenda just like to say it was made yeah I'll just type it in right now uh this one's gonna be kind of a big one again uh from Michael we're gonna get into an athlete's like training and look at that uh so if you want to I've linked already to an athlete's calendar and the plan and everything in this question it's from Michael uh Michael says Hey train Road team I love the platform of podcast and relatively new to structured training I started using trainer Road about a year and a half ago and prior to that I have no other structure training experience my question for you guys has been has to do with training load I was doing the mid-volume crit plan over the winter during the base phase when I wasn't racing or riding outside much and that felt good now that the Race season has started I do mostly crit racing I have switched to the low volume crit plan because on top of those three workouts per week I like to get out for three to four hours of pretty consistent Z2 on Saturday and Sunday and then I also race most Tuesdays and practice crit series near where I live so I've instantly got a red flag because like I see I see Alex Wilde and Keegan doing consistent Z2 and that's basically it whenever people say I do consistent Z2 for three to four hours then you look at their rides it's far from consistent um and you end up if you look at time and zone or if you look at the power profile it does not look like could work out if you're gonna do like Z2 stuff that's intentionally not going to be too hard it should look like that so there's one red flag unfortunately look at one of his rides yeah that's the quote consistency too and and look like Michael you are absolutely in good company I I'm being serious in the sense that I've seen Ivy's rides look like this uh not like what we're looking at here on Michael's rides but they're consistent I haven't seen Hannah's but I trust that Hannah's are pretty good um like this like that that they're checking the box they're in terms of being consistent but these this Z2 thing is really popular and and it's kind of treated like Choose Your Own Adventure and in most cases it's actually quite hard to do and in most cases and if you're doing Z2 training right too it's it's not recuperative like it's it's hard if you're doing three to four hours it's hard like that that's a hard day on the bike and you're adding on a lot of strain but in almost every case it's not being written consistently and instead uh it looks like you're looking at an EKG over like seven days it's just like you know bouncing up and down all over the place and it's hard to track so big red flag just the same uh so I'm gonna recap this going from a mid-volume plan to a low volume plan because now they're introducing these races but then also liking to do these three to four hour rides that are operating under the premise of just like consistent just C2 quote but instead it's actually something that's quite a big stressor okay I'm starting to feel the intensity catching up with me is it the intensity or is it just the fact that it's the training load Michael good thing to question um I'm starting to feel the intensity catch up with me and I lost my spot um and I feel like I need to skip something in my weekly routine my legs feel sore after over under workouts and it feels like I'll I will take two days before I start to feel good again I remember you guys mentioning on the podcast several times recently the threshold workouts are some of the most important workouts of the week that's contextually dependent if you're doing like a cyclocross plan or short track the threshold workouts aren't that key right Ivy so it depends on what you're doing um but however these can be my most dreaded things on my weekly calendar I can always finish them but they are rough so this week I skipped my anaerobic workout Spanish needle minus three so that I could survive the over unders what would you recommend in my situation should I do everything possible to make sure I do the threshold workouts or should I mix it up each week uh it sounds like already in this case Michael's like which one should I skip and should I just rotate through the skipping it's a different training it's complicated my first a race isn't until early June and I will be starting the specialty phase in a couple weeks hopefully I gave you enough info to go off on and didn't Ramble On too much no Michael is fantastic he gave us lots of great information on this so um if I can point out three uh main things that I'm seeing here then that'll form the basis for the discussion um number one this is the low volume trap right where it's like I'm gonna go down to low volume training so because I'm going down to low volume training and add four more hours of writing every week that's not going to be very tightly controlled and I'm gonna Race So if you step back and look like you might have dropped down from seven hours to three to four hours in terms of your structured work but you're over doubling that once you add in all the other stuff that you're doing Nate go ahead so this is what I've talked about before uh you know it's the intensity I looked at two of your last rides and one was a two hour and 30 minute ride and you did 51 minutes above Z2 a lot of it threshold VO2 max and anaerobic your next one your three 3 hour and 43 minute ride you did 80 minutes above it a lot of it threshold so almost 90 minutes of like higher end stuff inside of there those are hard rides right that's yeah that's something we're coming through with receipts hard right now yeah exactly because approach for each person right we should all do this how many times have we thought would we do something we just talked about TTS we think we're one thing and then you look at the data you're something else and it helps this is what a coach would do too right they'd be like you're actually not doing what we're supposed to be doing here so if you want to do Z2 like like do the Z2 and I can see you're you're riding with some hills and stuff and I think you're I can see the power spiking up on all the hills that you're you're climbing um maybe it's a gear issue that you can't gear down enough or maybe you just like the climbs and it feels good to go hard and climbs if you're going to be doing that I would either pick a different course so that you can stay in Z2 you can set alarms too and like a Garmin I'm not sure about a wahoo that will beep at you it's so annoying that's good yeah because you'll be like I'm doing it all the time but that just brings that awareness forward that you're not actually uh in that zone oh it's a that's a really good tip Nate on using the the alerts feature on your Garmin you can also what you do can do is if you you can find zone two workouts on trainer Road right there's tons of endurance workouts find those and send it to your head unit so you're doing it outside and then if you're using a garment or a wahoo and you fall outside of your power Target it will go beep boop and it'll like it'll annoy you uh and that way you can use that too it can be an easy way to do it Hannah sorry also your goal in these Z2 rides is to hold Z2 the whole time and we understand that if you do go outside and there's stoplights and things like that like that's fine be safe but my point in this is I get asked a lot about if you're looking at average power or normalized hire for these rides and that is such a slippery slope because what people will do and I almost wonder if this person is doing this is since they're hilly rides when they go downhill they see their power drops so then when they go uphill they want to drag that average up and then what you're doing is intervals you're not doing a Z2 ride so I would stop looking at average power for your ride and just focus on holding that power second to Second throughout your ride and Hannah you nailed it head on because this athlete if you look there almost all the rides are like 0.74 to 0.76 if these Z2 rides so number one you're tipping into tempo right uh so you're not really accomplishing the goal unless your goal with that Z2 right is to hold High Z2 low Tempo and in that case you should be picking a route that doesn't force you to stop at all like you should have a route that just allows you to stay on the gas the whole day but it's if you look at it it averages out to look like you're within the Zone but if you look at what you're actually doing it's so far from it and that brings a huge amount of fatigue I think too what might be happening is I'm looking at a ride so FTP of 340 super strong uh normalized Power 251 that gets that uh 70 74 um if but then if you look at the average power it's 204 so 204 divided by 340 is 0.6 so you could be like hey I did it I'm in zone two and average Powers up there's downhills and stuff like that like it is just second per second be in that in endurance Zone and for the times that you do like Hannah said you have a downhill or a um uh a stoplight or something I would just ignore those and just go second by second and stay in endurance um plug for trainer Road I know three hours and 43 minutes is really hard on the trainer but the ability to do like two hours straight with absolutely no breaks does I know I've had great success doing that more so than going outside for like three or four hours uh and then I get to watch like Ted Lassa the whole time yeah exactly Ivy what are your thoughts on this uh we'll get into other other points here but this is something that you and I personally have talked about that we see a lot of athletes struggle with right and I you know I wonder if this is one of those scenarios where uh there's a really important group Ryan or something that or you know homies that Mike wants to ride with on the weekends um or that there's a specific purpose that this ride on the weekend serves like an off-road ride where you can work on technical skills and you know camaraderie of doing a group ride with your homies and it's so hard to know that you need to and want to do that and knowing that it'll go above zone two and it sucks I totally have to be that guy now that's like sorry guys I'll be right there I'm gonna stay in zone two boo and it's so annoying I feel so bad about it um and you know if there there are opportunities in this group ride to go hard or work on something that you need to work on and you want to do it you should don't you know isolate and exclude yourself because you need to know your workouts the next week it just might mean that you need to adjust accordingly and if there's one weekend you know that you do need to go hard with your friends or do one of those like Adventure rides with your friends and you go outside of what you need to do spend the next week and do do an alternate you know choose a workout alternate for something that's shorter a little bit shorter duration for that key workout so that you feel like you can stay on top of recovery a little bit more and have a little more gas in the tank for the next weekend go ahead two things one Ivy's doing more like videos like women videos please use the word homies in those videos I love that like whatever with your home you can drop by your homies here's what you think and two with uh sometimes I've done this you ride with different homies on different days and the best one in Reno we have a group of older um mostly men 65 and older they go pretty chill right and they love his name Ever by the way it's the procrastinating pedalism they're so nice it's super interesting to talk to them and you can ride with those people and they're not gonna at 3 40. I highly doubt these people are gonna like be dropping you on the climbs and you just ride with that it's social it's still fun um this has happened too where like uh Imagine John when I was first doing it you'd ride with me that's your Zone too I was like it's so hard at the climbs I could actually get a regular workout and John would just talk to me the whole time and ask me questions and I'd be like shut up but yeah this is not the day though for me on a zone two day to go out with like I'm gonna ride with John and Keegan today that that's not because you do get that um I get a little bit codependent and I'm like I don't wanna I don't want to ruin these people's rides so therefore I need to then abandon myself for what I'm doing and change my goals just so that I don't make them mad at me yes right or like never want to ride again and that's yes just don't set yourself in that number one you shouldn't be doing that but it's easier just to not put yourself in that position uh yeah oh yeah yeah and and recapping this this continues into your recovery weeks as well Michael in this case I see this on your training plan where you're doing your recovery weeks you're doing the easy workouts or sometimes you're just skipping those workouts and you're just doing a lot of riding and once again when it's left to Choose Your Own Adventure we often choose adventure rather than chill and it makes it so that things get really kind of wild looking at your I just want to put this in context I mentioned the fact that like you dropped from the mid volume to the low volume plan when you did that your training stress has gone up since then 25 so like so yeah and you're trading hours even more so it's like it's this fallacy because in your mind you kind of build up oh since I'm doing low volume it's going to be easier why am I getting tired it must be the intensity no it's all the other stuff that you're adding in and if you just look at it from just a very basic perspective it's 25 more if you look at it from second by second when you're in your workouts it it's not following any sort of structure and I've said this ad nauseam but I hope it really sticks if you aren't specific with your input you should never expect a specific output with your training so like if you're not specific specific in terms of what you're doing don't expect any sort of in like an exact outcome from it um one of two things that I see there Nate go ahead yeah I want to say a few things one you could so if you love those rides and you're still going to make them hard you do have to drop something right and you might want to drop maybe the the Saturday before that ride instead of making that a hard one you go easy the Thursday is probably another good ride a drop the Tuesday is probably the most important out of those Tuesday and then Saturday then Thursday that's kind of the order of low volume I think two uh Thursday is usually a bit achievable um but raising every week though that's a big red flag to me too right IV like if you're racing every week and you're doing this um I mean Ivy do you pick and choose because you're you're kind of like Ivy you can race anything like it's not like uh you're a mountain biker and you don't have a mountain bike Series so it's like Shucks I guess I can't race ivy can race crates she can raise road races cyclocross mountain biking like track like you you can do it all so how do you say no and or do you say no to races and how do you like walk yourself through that because it's tempting to just race all the time yeah it's horrible and you get a lot of pressure and there you know you want to go see your homies and go through things and uh there was a time where I thought I didn't have to train uh do intervals ever when I lived in uh Seattle because there was a great on Tuesday um a like race race car track like you know Pacific raceways thing on Wednesday um track on Thursday track on Friday um local Road Race on Saturday a road race or a crate on Sunday like all the time there's so much racing and I was like I don't ever have to do intervals I can just I can just go to these races and it is training and I'm just burned out so hard um so yeah you have to pick and choose and disappoint some people and uh disappoint some sponsors sometimes and say no uh yeah you have to do it's not easy but you can't do everything you bring up a really good point because John and I actually have raised every week during the summer we have this really good local uh race series in Reno and it we what we do though is we replace one of the it's a Tuesday night so we replace that Tuesday night workout and then John and I have both done this where so in a crit normally you you you're gonna do as least power as possible to win right at least but before two we've done these crits so many times depending on the field if both of us have won these things in the a field what we do is we John will be like today I'm doing long intervals off the front and it's a workout in that crit and he's like I'm gonna go out and he just freaking guns it it's so annoying and then it'll be like Christ goes for 10 minutes off the front and then he comes back and he does it again and it comes back and it's like a workout inside of the actual race um but he's not then the next day repeating he's recovering right he's not doing the next one so I want to say like that stuff is super fun and racing is fun and I definitely don't think we're saying hey you can't race until you're a race with the taper you just have to adjust your plan for the volume that you can recover from and if you go intense doing VO2 max and threshold every single day with and then races you're gonna have a bad time yes one more tip for the Z2 with the homies this is not utilized enough it's e-bikes if you can afford me bikes an e-bike with the homies you can stay in that power Zone it is amazing I've done it with John with like uh a mountain bike two mountain bike e-bikes oh my they're mountain bike terrain and make it recuperative because otherwise it's almost always too steep you know it's too Steep and you get to do so many more downhills which are the fun and then in that like mental break he's it's like it's like your own chair lift right yeah and then someone else who can talk to people uh I can so I can I mean I can drop John on e-bike which is pretty awesome he actually goes pretty pretty close to me still but that's one of those ones where if John has a hard day I mean like hey can I come I have my e-bike and he's like yeah sure and he drops me on the descents but it's super duper fun like I know you might say I mean you're at 340. people know you're strong uh this is an ego thing it's cool it's okay to wear an e-bike like I I know there's a mental barrier I think against some of the like the people who have high Fitness like I would never need one but it's a tree it's a tool in your training look at it that way you're gonna become faster and just I think you would have the confidence and you can tell people like hey I'm gonna go zone two I want to ride with you I can't stay zone two unless I have an e-bike on this day I'll see you on race day if you want to like uh make fun of me or something but I don't think they will we've said a lot of things and presented a lot of hypotheticals but I want to have a takeaway an action item Here If This Were me and I was in a scenario and doing all these things and started feeling like I was gonna crack the first thing I would cut out uh of my calendar would be that Tuesday night race for one week maybe even two um and and do some workout alternates and short shorten those weekly workouts um and see how I'm feeling before I incorporate one of those Tuesday races again that's what I would do adding to that I would use alternates to and I I don't know perhaps you meant this IV here but I would use alternates for a little bit to make everything a little bit easier and a little bit shorter in terms of your structured workouts just do that for a little bit like you're fast and you've been doing a lot of training chances are and then you've been trying to like your glass is full and then you're just like dumping more water on top of it you know right now so don't worry about turning it down and losing something you won't you'll just gain by turning things down okay I have I have more thoughts looking at this calendar um where he has his recovery week he went outside and did 12 hours and 40 minutes he had scheduled four hours yeah he did 12 hours of riding and then his next recovery week very common we're not laughing at you we're laughing with you because the next one he has nine hours of outside riding with a race on his recovery week uh two races in a row actually um and then he jumps back into 13. remember this is low volume low volume is like two and a half hours yeah three days so you're gonna be looking at like three to four hours probably yeah oh three to four hours okay sorry uh yeah yeah three and a half is usually the the first one so that so three and a half you go up to 13. more than there's a difference in your volume yes yeah you're like but trainer road's too hard yeah uh Hannah sorry I'm sorry to pick on you but this is like this is so good to hear for the so many people oh yeah uh I I just I I found myself tempted to fall into this before Oceanside right like the week before I was like ooh I was just sick last week maybe I can fit in some extra training here you know what I mean and I had to catch myself the Temptation was there I think we all do it Hannah do you have any final thoughts on this one before we move on to Luca's question yeah I mean I think that I think what I'm hearing from everyone that I agree with is this this needs to prioritize a little bit better um and by that I just I think that in the process process of prioritizing they will realize that um I think they're a little bit flat all across the board right now and so they need to prioritize where they want to be fast and work backwards from there and so realizing that when you're fast is when you're rested um and maybe even maybe even try that out for a little bit like the idea of backing off and doing um cutting down workouts for a little while if it makes you nervous think of it as an experiment and see what happens because I think we're all really confident that if you back it off a little bit and take a true honest recovery week you will be flying at the end of it and then it's going to be this thing like oh I want that back um and you'll taste a little bit of that good life and so I think I think that you just need to give yourself that recovery in order to feel what it feels like to be fresh and hopefully that gives you new insight into what um what you can really achieve and remember that when you're fresh and you hit those higher numbers because you are fresh you're getting more training stimulus so it's really Perpetual in that the harder you can work the faster you get and then but with that is that needed rest component and so I think right now you're you're so close you're willing to work hard but you're just not resting you're not completing that Circle and so if you complete that circle with rest um It's Just Gonna Keep building for you so rest a little bit I think is uh what we've all been trying to say here I I see too oh sorry go ahead Abby oh I was just gonna say when is his a race should he do do you rest just do it now and do your resting now start now yeah yeah agreed I I see too this athlete is during they're still doing productive workouts like they're doing productive I see some stretch they're still progressing and that's where I think what Hannah just said about being flat is probably exactly right with a true recovery week like I don't feel like they're in this huge hole where they need to like take a month off this is doable right now listen to the last segment don't do all these you know do the chill stuff the tuku eat sleep I bet you when you come out like Hannah said you're gonna be like crushing Souls 100 just everyone's goal yep Luca's question Luca says just got back into train Road after listening to your podcast and after this by the way we're gonna cyclist fair warning we're gonna cover my I'm gonna we're gonna talk about my Triathlon at Oceanside and see how that went so you're saved into the triathlon yeah yeah sorry I'm proud of you I'm sorry Lucas I just got back into training uh into trainer Road after listening to your podcast good to have you back with us Luca um I've previously burnt out quickly from choosing mid or high volume training programs and not being able to juggle life and training recently I started a low volume program and supplemented it supplemented it with train Now function when I find I have the extra time and by doing this I've been able to stay consistent with my training and ultimately my fitness gains are also going up so thank you it's amazing yes um it's great so um uh my question of owning multiple sets of or my question is about owning multiple sets of Wheels to change out based on an event I'm currently tossing up between buying a deeper set of wheels a 60 millimeter front and a 68 millimeter rear or a more all-rounder set of wheels of a 45 millimeter front and 55 millimeter rear I understand that due to weight deeper wheels are generally preferred for flatter courses while shallower wheels for Rolling climbing my question would be around crits and bunch rides I have heard that shallower Wheels provide better accelerations out of corners and for Sprints but would the accumulative watt saving of a deeper wheel mean that I'm fresher for a Sprint so ultimately provide a similar Advantage thank you for the great podcast I've given you five stars on Spotify and tell all my friends about you thank you Luca and if you're listening to this rating the podcast on Spotify is how you can like pay us so to speak like like it we would mean the world it's free you don't have to do it but if you do it man it helps us a ton so go on to Spotify rate it five stars and share it with people and the app okay our reviews in the app we have like 16 000 or like 4.9 yeah yeah because that gives us credibility when people go there because a lot of people still think it's like hey it's the three Ivy Jonathan myself you know just like a couple people doing this and Hannah comes by everyone smile yeah exactly Nate uh what are your thoughts on this um the gamut in terms of Wheels I bought them all yeah I uh but by the way are people using my wheels or do we sell them because someone should use them at trainer Road someone should use them I don't know yeah um okay first off uh not first off no I think didn't we do this math where the acceleration of watts of the like slightly heavier Wheels is not con of consequence it isn't of consequence that's correct yeah it is so small I think your brother did that math yeah who is like a scientist literally a rocket scientist literally yeah yeah so that is that could be um more in your head on that and so the rotational weight of that is not a big deal the one thing is the wind right that is an issue uh and maybe if you're in a climb in 100 grams is something but if you're doing crits I mean that's 60 68 what was my Envy seven two right I had those uh yours were six eights yep so six eighty yeah those they just look so cool like you roll up with those people go when you pedal too to tell you too the uh the cliff bar team with Pete they do that too yeah it is if they're stiff so when you take Corners too they feel really good as long as it's not a super human name is super windy Crossman I mean the envies I did not get that wheel push thing especially in a crit maybe if you're going 50 down a hill uh that's one thing but in a crit I just love him I always use the deep dish and all of my crits because you know those little five Watts at 30 miles per hour that you might save um in a sprit is enough to get that extra half wheel or something of that quarter wheel so I would definitely go for those uh I mean I would definitely go for those and then for Road I would usually do the um I would do the the NV what is it 50 in the front and yep five sixes I think is what you want yep yeah yeah and I like those for Road and I don't even that was mostly for like wind stuff and and scared but I'd go up big climbs and stuff too I don't really know if that was actually faster than the 6 8s but yeah yeah in general that's what I like the general consensus that you see is somewhere around 50 for being like the average depth that most people use in road races and in crates it tends to be a bit deeper uh I uh the advice that I would give on this one is that a shallower wheel is only like like remember we're talking like below 40. the only reason that you would be using that is if you have people protecting you so then you're riding in a draft so that the aerodynamic drag doesn't matter as much and that you plan to place a move on a climb where that is absolutely your move like that that's your ticket to winning the race or achieving whatever outcome you have then you would build up your equipment for that in all other circumstances I think it makes sense to go somewhere around 50 mil now in your case you're debating between 50 and 60 and I would just go towards 60. in most cases it's actually between those two wheels if you look at it it's like 40 to 80 Watts or 80 grams of difference in terms of weight it's a really small amount of weight so because of that it's really not a big deal and especially if you're the sort of rider that's also going to be carrying with the field and it's not dealing with constant surges or anything else but you won't notice the weight of the surges you just build it up in your head it's all kind of like a fake thing and I see you nodding I don't know if you have experience or Insight on that I just think that um I just think that as cyclists in general we are we tend to overthink some of these things um and if it's fun for you like if this is a fun question which when I read it that was kind of I thought I was like oh this is fun to think about um you know where are you getting the most Advantage but if you're genuinely concerned about this the reality of the situation is you know it it's really not that big of a difference probably probably the thing that is impacting you the most is thinking about it and if you're thinking about it to the point that you're getting to the race and looking around well what does that person have what does that person have that doubt in question is impacting you way more than the wheels that you actually have so have fun thinking about it but word to the wise would just be um once you make your decision you're all in be confident in it don't look around don't question it don't wonder if you bought the right Wheels you did no matter what you bought you bought the right ones they're yours and you'll be fast on them how John said the 40 to 60 grams thing uh I know there's rotational weight and we did that math before but your 16 ounce water bottle just the water is 450 grams yeah right so if you're like I you know you might be putting two bottles on only drink one and you're getting that extra pound the whole time and you don't even think about that right but you're like oh 60 grams I don't know it's gonna Slow Me Down uh shoot yeah uh the I I would prioritize I think you're looking at the wrong measurement Luca the more important thing is the internal width of your Rim if you can look at the internal width you want to go with a wider wheel and I know a lot of older wheels are going to be somewhere between 19 to 21 or 90 or closer to 19 millimeters internal width modern ones are going to be 21 to 23 even up to 25 in some cases on some road wheels you'll see the wider you can be it's going to allow you to run less pressure larger volume tires and you're gonna decrease your rolling resistance substantially and then it also means that since most tires now are coming out as 25s and above in terms of size if you have a rim that's going to be 21 23 or 25 millimeter internal width the tire is going to match those new fancy tires that are going to be faster they're going to match the profile of your Rim really well so then you're going to get more aerodynamic benefit because if you have 80 mil depth Wheels but you're running a 28 and they're really skinny rims you've completely nullified like the effect of having a deep dish wheel anyway because you have this big mismatch between the tire diameter and your Rim so I would go toward whatever is wider on the internal width Ivy let's see uh I I ride Wheels no I mean like I'm the kind of person that has like and one Land Park last year on aluminum training wheels you know like um like Hannah said the wheels that you have are the right Wheels for sure look in cycling there's always yeah I was just like yeah whatever it was on my Huffy you know you can I I've known Riders and have race with writers that uh you know I really admire people that know so much about equipment and um or you know are curious about equipment in this way but there's also a negative part of that where you can mentally like wonder if it's affecting your performance and kind of let it be a roadblock to you when instead your mentality could be like this works like I'm gonna make this work and put all these other pieces together you know in the scope of like we're saying before Mis misdiagnosing or misattributing where stuff goes wrong um you could find little gains here and there or you could have got an extra hour of sleep or like not miss that workout this week or you know um so it's hard for me to want to I can't fixate on equipment stuff because there's such you know there's so much more lower hanging fruit that results in a better race for me in cycling there is always always always a way to make equipment improvements um and that's part of what's so fun about it right and so addicting but also you know if wheels are stressful if they're expensive if it's hard to change like are you running a skin suit because that's a huge aerodynamic um difference like a slightly more Aero helmet Arrow socks like there are some really small gains that especially when we're sitting here talking about what did Nate say 40 or 60 grams um gosh you can make that back in so many other ways that uh they're fun and maybe less expensive so just you know in some ways don't worry about it in other ways widen your perspective and recognize that there's a million ways you can make up that deficit two so I love Envy Wheels I love them right they're they're not cheap Envy Wheels six seven is twenty two thousand eight hundred fifty dollars uh for trainer road that is 15 years of trainer road we haven't been around that way and so I know people are like oh you're too expensive I guarantee you just over that 15 years we're gonna give you way more than like the five watts of area faster but probably in a month we will get you that extra depending on where you are in your in your uh in your journey but uh don't sleep on that like that's a I still think we're for dollars spent nothing makes you faster than Trainor oh yeah absolutely that's my opinion as the co-founder and CEO so yeah yeah there we go go to trainerroad.com sign up and get faster um uh can we get into some Triathlon stuff to close it out I'm excited should we just start with questions how do we start I always feel bad talking about myself um yeah did you survive yeah I'm here yep I survived uh they changed the swim just for me so they made it so that we didn't have to swim in the in the waves instead we just swam in the harbor or the marina um can I just walk you through because I I think I'm the only triathlete here right I know Hannah is an itu I am yeah I did not know that you didn't notice I raced Franklin for I raised Troutman for 11 years um that's how I started in sport I won never mind yeah I won Xterra worlds for overall amateurs two times what I didn't know all of it yeah man okay Hannah take it away oh my God yeah that's how I started sport um yeah so overall world champion I mean okay so Jonathan has graced us with an amazing spreadsheet here so I'm looking at some things and I immediately have some comments um but the first time here is like oh yeah I'll post it in the Forum I'll post the spreadsheet and then I'll post my nutrition spreadsheet and my pacing spreadsheet all that stuff I'll post them all in there thank you sorry I was thinking by the way sorry on the wheels thing before I was like I was gonna give a suggestion but it'd probably make a person like fret over this even more but everything I do I break down cost per gram on my bikes and I also break down for Aero stuff like cost per gram and then also per cost per watt saved so then I can actually pay attention like are the wheels I'm worth like spending all this money on are they worth it or should I just bend my elbows like and drop mine or something you know yeah so anyways yeah um lots of spreadsheets sorry Hannah no I just um first of all congratulations you finished that's amazing and you made it through the swim that's even more amazing so I want to focus on I want to go through each element of the try but I also I know you posted on Instagram beforehand that you wanted to go sub five because you said five is just over five is just a little too long and you did end up in 507. so you're close so you're a little a little bit over that goal what do you feel like put you over the top there uh there's a lot um so in this spreadsheet it actually broke down so my transitions were were really slow um so first like when I got out of the water so the swim was uh like a pure like just like you're doing like threshold work and you're like floating up and you find that spot where if you go anywhere you're gonna blow up that was me but with panic attack on the swim the whole time right like so I was just pinging off that limiter so to speak like the whole time and I couldn't really focus on swimming fast instead I was just moving through and not panicking to the point where I needed to stop and the only time I needed to stop uh was the time because there were just so many people the only time I needed to stop was because I literally swam into a wall of people uh I don't know what happened but everybody just stopped and instead of the feet kicking and the water splashing in front of me it suddenly just stopped and I swam into them that was the only time I needed to stop and that was really big for me to not have a panic attack that was going to cause me to have to just stop tread backstroke hold on to something I never had to do any of that and that was like so I but it took its toll and that transition I think is where it shows because I was just like it was like I was in a car accident and then once I got out I was just like okay bring yourself back down collect yourself like you know and it took quite a while so I John two are you doing there this is kind of a silly question but are is your fear during swimming drowning no it's like subconscious because you know I'm I and I don't know what it is right Nate like because I get into the water and I float like a cork uh I have my wetsuit on and I'm in Salt Water it's like crazy it's like you're you're so buoyant so no it's not I think that it's probably tied to like past trauma as a kid with being dunked by that swim instructor over and over and over and over for like weeks on end um and I think that I've still been trying to overcome that but anytime it's just like you know when you're in the water facing the Water Swimming like that it's like this subconscious reaction and it's hard to calm it down and I've made a huge amount of progress because a huge amount but still it's there you know well I want to share something oh I was just gonna say what do you feel like has allowed the greatest amount of progress simply time in the water or have you employed specific strategies time in the water like a deconditioning this response that I have and doing it gradually also doing it like just time in the water I don't mean like I just go out and spend four hours in the water like At first I had to just take a break halfway through a lane and then after that it was take a break at the end of a lane and I might only end at first I remember I swam way too long my first time it was pretty rough and tragic and after that I remember going to the pool and swimming 10 minutes and honestly that was all I could tolerate without getting to the point where I was like too revved up you know and and so just took a lot of gradual exposure and deconditioning um this might help other people might not help you John But but so for me I would in a race I don't have the fear of that but when I assume an Open Water by myself I do have the fear because I'm always like what if I get in trouble there's nothing no one around to help me and there is a device that is legal to use in races it's a little belt it should be a little bit of drag but it's it's pretty um close to you and you can pull something and a little inflating device will come up uh DC Rainmaker covered this it works really well and I think it's just if you were assuming an Open Water by yourself it should be a requirement I agree with that for like for loved ones and stuff but in a race too if that is your fear I think because you know it's mental right all this stuff is mental and if that does give you any more of like hey I have I am I am safe right now uh that could help somebody and I don't know how much it costs and I don't remember the exact name even the form if I bet if someone asked in the Forum on this thread someone else would link you to it but yep I would totally use one of those again open water all the time but in a race I would not be don't be ashamed or anything like that and if anyone gives you about it like excuse me uh you can look at the rules and it is allowed as like a safety device it doesn't give you advantage of course if you pull it you're out you're out like you can't use it anymore but better than drowning you know 100 yeah yeah yeah and that's then the hard thing to to reckon with is I figured it was drowning like and I was like yeah that's what I'm afraid of but no it's just like this like can this hard-wired connection that's been really tough to to reverse but this is a huge amount of progress for me I don't want to make people think that like I'm uh I'm disappointed with that I thought I'd swim 35 to 40 minutes I swam 41 and that's like hey that's like right for me for yeah for that sort of scenario it was way slower than what I swim in a pool but I got through it without having a panic attack so John and that is pretty good and one more tip too for people who have that like past trauma stuff in all parts of their lives there is a technique called EMDR seeing a therapist and it can help you work through some of that stuff so that it kind of melts away over time and you don't have that same trauma response um that worth looking into for anyone who want to do that yeah yeah I can help you find a therapist and Reno that will walk you through EMDR that'd be awesome I would appreciate that yeah well and also in in terms of swim times and a race I've always found that swim times in open water are super hard to compare race to race because of the amount of people there because um not all the courses are always exactly perfect even if they are perfect with sighting sometimes you'll swim a little bit further um and uh currents of course too like I mean in some races more than others and that like Escape from Alcatraz which is famous for the currents the slowest I've done that is like 45 minutes in the fastest I did it was like 20. wow so that's all due to currents so yeah it's just I think that if you were even close to the time that you set as your goal I think it's a win major win so that's awesome and you're overall out of everyone else you were not you were like you're overall were you in the middle or like the 70s overall time at the race or just the swim just to swim uh I was like toward the I was toward the front half um I was like probably somewhere around 30 40th percent of somewhere around that is amazing John that's a major you were like dead last were you yeah a huge huge change huge change going from the 100th percentile or no the zero percentile to halfway through like that John you should be so proud of the work that you've done to do that and this is a more competitive field by far than the Xterra one 100 so it's even better so kudos to you John thank you yeah I'm I'm quite proud of it I know it's maybe not like you know some crazy fast time but I'm really proud of the progress let's talk about T1 Hannah you you give him poo poo for this man John this T1 I saw this and I just thought man if that him better have been a mile run in T1 it was long I'll say this much it was long but yeah transition times transition times will sometimes vary a lot because sometimes the transition area is huge and you'll run across the mat and then you'll have to run almost a half mile to your bike so you know give or take a little bit on what the quote-unquote average time is for T1 but Jonathan's T1 was nine minutes and 26 seconds so giving you some giving you some context I thought there's no way after the race I was like yeah but there's no way anybody went under like five minutes and T1 and I think that the winner Leo uh uh bajir I think that he did it in two minutes and 27 seconds he's like an itu like Beast um but and he smoked the rest of them but if you look at the average time in T1 for my for the top 10 of my age group it's eight minutes and 32 seconds so that's what they no for six minutes and 32 seconds I think I touched it wrong I see the top five people all in like the 430s yes they're fast but I'm looking at top 10 in my age group then the nice thing too is about what the the the the the Transitions and for those who don't know the T1 means the transition between the bike uh I'm sorry the swim and the bike and they time that portion so you have to you know change is anyone can be super fast it's not a fitness thing it's like an organization like can I take my wetsuit off quickly it doesn't have anything to do with the fitness uh there's someone who 30th Place no what is it 10th place did a 418. so we're just saying two is the average forgive me 432 is the average that they have Okay cool so I just saying John lost about four and a half minutes right there yes which is crazy so how did why was it so long um it was over a quarter mile run total that you did like uh going or all like going all the way down transition and then all the way out into my bike and then from the bike kind of out in a weird angle but anyways the main thing the reason that it took so long is because I was just rocked right like in terms of like emotionally trying to get myself to calm down so I was jogging through not running through um just jogging through because I was like just mine somewhere else once I got into transition it went fairly quick I I'd like to look at getting some different shoes like try shoes if I was to do another half that would be helpful um I have s-works ones and the boa laces they easily pop out of the little clip that holds them right and it's like a feature not a bug it's like what they're supposed to be but for Triathlon if you're putting those onto your bike it's a little tricky to then make sure that that BOA or that BOA cable stays in if you're gonna put your foot in it's really easy for it to pop out and I tried it before the race a few times and more than half the time I would go to put my foot in and it would knock the lace out of there and then I'd have to stop and then put the shoe on with two hands because it's really tricky so I put those shoes on but I put socks on because I have dignity no I'm just joking but also because there's freezing cold it was 43 degrees that morning when we started swimming and then the water was 52 degrees so really cold and it was windy um when we headed out so it was freezing cold so I put on socks and then I put on arm warmers as well but honestly I think that the majority of it was just because I wasn't focused on being fast in transition I was focused on trying to be calm and I was worried that my nerves would cause me to forget my nutrition or forget something else you know and so I just kind of took my time through it I figured it's okay all you know I'm not here to set a specific time I'm just here to have a good day with uh performance so sorry I don't know anything about about try nutrition when you say like focusing on nutrition in the transition are you like eating do you eat gels or something there like do you have a little fanny pack with I really don't understand higher no I'm serious I like when do you eat yeah um so in transition I have planned to take in a piece of run gum I did not want to take caffeine before the swim I was gonna be revved up enough but uh taking a piece of run gum and then in addition to that take down a gel and then I also had a bottle in transition that had like a really strong electrolyte mix and then I could just like take a swig of that if I need it as well so I did that um so that's what I did while I'm heading out and you know getting changed and doing all that stuff like this for those who haven't done it when you get gassed on the swim that run feels so disorienting you can get water in your ears too you can be dizzy as you run I ran earplugs by the way to avoid that because in the first try I fell over like three times in transition because of just that's really smart uh and then one year running too the ability to try to some people take their wetsuit off like um pull it down to their waist I really like that because you can also get really heated quickly yes I know that was a cold day but running with your wetsuit on and it just feels really weird too to um to get up there and do that and then um what you said is John were you saying you had your your pedals clipped in your shoes clipped in I was going to do that and I tried it before the race a few times and it did not work well with the shoes that I have yeah if you're gonna do that you'd definitely want the try shoes one for the way they close but also they have the little um loop on the back of the shoe usually which rubber bands yeah because then you can put rubber band on the shoe and put it rubber band it attaches somewhere on your bike and then once your feet are in you pedal and the rubber bands just snap um so yeah so John is a you know National level bike Handler for sure and he had problems with that and I would say for anyone starting out I wouldn't do this for at least a year unless you're practicing a ton because two you're going to get in that position where you come out of the bike there's so many people around you if you have a single problem you have to reach down or something you swerve a little bit I've seen so many crashes hand have you seen this too right out of it people end their whole races because of that um on the other side you see people pedaling on their shoes like stay clear of them right um probably at the front of the race they're all really good but the back of the race there's a bunch of people who are not um skilled enough to do this and I honestly I don't think it's that much faster um if you want to be in a in a group maybe but because you start off slower because you still have to put your shoes in the guy next to me in transition I think he qualified for worlds uh in the 25 to 30 age group um he's very fast and he didn't do this with his shoes so he had his shoes just off he put his shoes on then ran out in his shoes just like normal he didn't have them in position so even fast people don't do it sometimes yeah I lost a ton of trains Hannah Hannah has something you know I have something too I want to give a couple Pro tips for transition hair so actual price yeah yeah so if you're gonna do um if you're gonna do the socks uh and I don't know if Jonathan did this or not but you don't want to just have your socks laying in transition very slow you want to scrunch them up like they're already ready to be put on and then you want to put baby powder inside of them because when you slide it on your foot the baby powder will help dry whatever um wetness you still have from the swim where the sock would get bunched up and be difficult to put on and then if you don't do socks you can just put baby powder straighten your shoes so same thing so that it's fast to put on um and then for the food my recommendation would actually be to get on the bike and then eat because at least you're moving forward um but the problem with that is people forget they get so excited when they're on the bike so if it's eat in transition or don't eat it all definitely eat in transition but I think now that you've accomplished this first race and you've worked through it I think a Next Step could be just eating on the bike like um and then the last thing I would say and this is not quite as fast but I think it's a comfort thing that's really good is a lot of the time when you get out of the swim especially for these longer races like a half you'll run on the sand then you'll run through like a parking lot or something and then you'll get in a transition and your feet are just covered with all this junk and the idea of putting on a sock or a shoe and then you're gonna ride and then you're gonna run and I've definitely had it where I've then run on a little Pebble um the entire rest of the race and it is so uncomfortable and so what I would like to have in transition is actually just a water bottle like bike bottle so you can spray it full of water and just really quick grab it spray both feet and then put on the shoes because it just takes away whatever might cause a blister later in the race yeah we had to run across like a frozen rough parking lot with like gravel and rocks in it and it was pretty terrible so I had like a tiny little rag that I brought just for my feet so then I could just like use that to clean my feet off really quick but it didn't work that that well I had socks I should have done the baby powder but I did that exact thing with the socks um yeah I rolled them up so that it was basically I I put it over my toes and after that I just moved my hand up my leg and then it went right on did you ever practice T1 by yourself uh no not enough um I practiced it geez no it's been since the summer since I practiced it because um of just not swimming to the bike without freezing cold it's been here I should have just done a mock inside the house having the confidence to do that like how long would it take to take four minutes off your run right that would take a long time to take four minutes off a half marathon time but for the transitions like you're right in the house that could literally be a recovery day issue I think that would be fine just to like put your wetsuit on take it off put my shoes on one side I have on this too with these long runs out of there or first of all thanks to the volunteer that helped me unzip my wetsuit like my arms like just were not working my whole body wasn't working it's really kind of them to help that they didn't have wetsuit peelers or anything at this race just somebody knew what they were doing and helped which was cool but it's such a long run that your wetsuit kind of dries out a bit by the time I got to my bike and I noticed that when I was taking it off my legs the dryer wetsuit it's kind of hard to take off like and uh that was one thing that I thought of like it might have even been helpful for me to just like strip my wetsuit and just run through because it was such a long run to my bike and I could just like put the wetsuit over my shoulder or something or carry you know what I mean like and it would probably be fine but anyways that was that was one thought uh that I had on that but it was a really slow transition I could have saved a ton of time a lot of places once you got on the bike how much better did you feel versus the swim because you're at home I was gonna say now we get to talk about the bike where you're like we've entered expert place I subconsciously like I realize that my body subconsciously used the familiarity of that to recover because during transition I didn't feel like I was recovering but then when I was on the bike like my body was in such a familiar motion I was just like you're home I was home yeah exactly um but I had like a really uh strict like or really clear plan it was I should have my um I should have my normalized power around 210 Watts by the end of it but if I'm riding on the flats I should be holding somewhere between 200 210 if it's like a slight downhill or anything like that I should be somewhere between 180 to 190 and if it was like a slight rise I should allow myself to go up to 240 to 260 and if it's a steep climb I can go up to 290 and according to best bike split that was the way to Pace it so it broke down that and I was within one watt of that and also like within like 30 seconds of the time or something um that is predicted I'm sorry one more thing for the before Hannah takes over the bike the amount of cortisol and adrenaline that John experienced during that race during the swim is a significant factor for the rest of the race and that ability to someday get more and more calm like I don't think people realize that enough that it's not just that the swimming part of it like if John swam this in a pool he probably would have had so we've been so much more relaxed and be able to put out more power the rest of the race sure um versus that and it's okay and that happens to unless you're like a high school like little kid swimmer this happens to everybody and it's something you can get over though and something you can work through yeah agreed yeah and the bike was just like constant passing people and honestly it's pretty uneventful in the sense that like I was just rolling through people um I'm not sure I ever got past because everyone was so far back in the swim yeah um whenever someone says that it's because they're swim like I was the last person known past me it was weird um and I just feel like the pacing worked for you oh it was like quite conservative um but I also don't feel like it was if I had gone any harder my run would have suffered um so I feel like it was actually for me with this distance being the first time I've done this race it was like the right uh sort of thing I did um there were way more people than I anticipated that would be on course for way more of the course and it caused like like in one situation we're going up and down a slight climb and when we're going back down uh I'm telling people on your left and I'm out of the I'm not in the Aero position here because there's too many people and it's two-way traffic going up this road it's not safe for me to be down there um and I said on your left and to one person I think that they meant I think that they heard move left or something they moved left and I had the choice of like hitting people because TT breaks or TT bikes with Rim brakes have terrible brakes so I had the choice of hitting people going down or swerving and then hopefully not hitting anybody going up and that seemed like a better option but I hit a gigantic manhole and I thought I was going to blow up my wheel but it tossed one of my bottles in the frame so that was the only like uh moment where on the bike I was like there's a problem and even then my backup plan was just to go to an aid station and get four gels and then water and if I could get four gels in water that would make up for the carbs that I had in that bottle so I did that and everything was fine and that there was nothing no other issues but good job recovery yeah that can freak people out and one one important thing I left that bottle and I feel bad about leaving that bottle I hope that I picked it up but it was not safe for me to stop play Frogger with the traffic and pick up that bottle like I would have I would have made people crash it would have been really dangerous Hannah that's not a thing people don't stop and then go run across the course to pick up bottles when when they get ejected right it's not safe and I think that I think that what's really frowned upon is purposefully littering you know like if someone takes a gel and then just throws that that's not cool don't do that um but when there's a mistake and something that happens safety is really is really first priority so I think what Jonathan did is is correct uh but I have two specific questions for the bike so the first one is um a lot of people when they race Triathlon they're usually coming from another sport like one of the three um and they feel like that's the place to make up their best time like I'm gonna survive the swim crush the bike and then survive the Run uh based on your experience I just want to hear you kind of talk about that mindset how you handled that how you did or didn't do that um yeah it was super far from my mindset my plan I made a plan to avoid that otherwise I would have fallen into it so it was like a pretty but I had to build that plan beforehand and have confidence that it was the right one so it never felt hard right it just felt and it just felt like I was riding at that kind of like normal level the power was really low just because of where my fitness is like typically holding 250 Watts on that course would be chill like that would be fine and I would be able to continue and just have a great run but in this case it was holding 200 112 I think is the Watts that I had or 211 at the end so that's what it was but no I didn't try to kill it I didn't try to make up time that's a trap that I knew was gonna bite me like I've interviewed enough really good triathletes now over the years that like um I've at least been able to see like uh that I shouldn't fall into that trap so it was quite easy that's what I was going to say John like how much power would you hold at Cape epic for a day like 250 to 2 or 240 to 265 for three to or for four to five hours every day exactly and I was very surprised with your power on this and I was worried I thought you went too conservative but are you saying because of like the new baby the training your power 40 Watts I'm 40 Watts lower than what I typically am right now just in terms of uh Power output I'm just not fast and and that took a lot of Humble Pie to be like geez I guess I'm just gonna ride it 211 but you know what that's what I needed to do and that's like what my fitness allowed me to do so you know you put that out of your mind and then it ends up resulting in a much better day I think you can still go a little faster yeah I certainly could have gone faster but I didn't know what that would do to the run and that was like the same concern this is the first time I've seen John Pace something slower than he could have uh in in his life and Hannah you have stuff to say yeah well that that's my second question is did because you paced it so well were you able to just Pace it perfectly and then lead into the run or did you alter anything else about your ride in order to anticipate that run uh for example go easier in the last 10 minutes or increase the Cadence or anything like that no I was like I just Steady As She Goes just stuck with the plan and I wasn't charging at the end I wasn't doing anything like that or changing it up um my Cadence I think my average Cadence I don't know what it was which is probably somewhere around like 80 to 85 to 90 somewhere around there so um it was kind of typical like 90 RPM on a bike is going to be 180 RPM on a run that sort of thing in terms of cadence uh what you would transfer over and I typically run 185-ish 180 to 185 so no I didn't adjust anything like the bike was super uneventful it was just good um the one and I was in Arrow anytime I was above 14 miles an hour uh if I was or if I felt wind and was below 14 miles an hour I was in Arrow but other than that I was in Arrow the whole time and that was comfortable and fine I think my position though could be optimized for aerodynamics like I made it way more comfortable but I think I'm I'm like just average aerodynamics instead of like dolphin aerodynamics now so it's a balance though comfortable is good yeah and then how was your T2 it looks like it was much faster than T1 probably because you were coming from a comfortable place so three minutes 27 seconds how did that go yeah it was way closer to the average and I didn't lose a lot of time I was faster in Trans in T2 actually than some of the people that beat me in my age group which was cool but the um I use the speed laces uh um and I was using Alpha flies uh for the shoes and I used speed laces and they they kind of hurt my foot it didn't really bother me in the race like I could feel the pain there but there was other pain that was more important than that um but yeah like afterward my feet were like bruised and I didn't have them tight it's just they're kind of like uh they're round and they're they kind of sit on top of each other and they pressed onto the top of my foot in the spot so if anybody has uh like a line on on speed laces that aren't round like that that are flat that would be cool listeners if you have an idea but yeah yeah it was quick I nailed a gel I took a swig of my water and dropped my water bottle and I was running while I did that stuff um and then I took in some run gum and everything just like the nutrition plan for this for the bike and for the Run was just exactly as planned in through transition to so it's fast I wore a I wore a hat backwards though and sunburned on my face if you can join YouTube you can see that so you wore that uh helmet that you had never worn before until a race day how'd that work out worked out great yeah yeah it was actually good uh zero issue uh felt way more honestly I felt way more comfortable I always felt scared wearing like that Pock one that I had the foam is so thin the Giro was literally three times thicker in terms of foam like women too right and it has mips and it way more coverage too like the pock like sat on top of your head kind of and the Giro really fits so that's a a huge thing people as a guy who has 24 stitches in his face where the helmet sits is so important and I you know I when this is a mountain bike one I could add a helmet that just covered a little bit more and I would have saved a con released a concussion as bad sure the coverage on your face matters so much we worry about again 20 grams 40 grams yeah uh your head it the amount the impact of a like my three concussions have had in my life has been so now worth 40 grams a second on a climb you know something like that uh 100 I've always focused I'm just saying some people get some pretty skimpy helmets for what yeah for sure yep yes I was happy with that and yeah transition went well TT went well so so then going out in the run I I feel like that's one of the hardest parts mentally in the race how did you feel starting that run and just walk because the run in general I felt like uh not like wow I feel amazing but I felt good and instantly wanted to run faster than I wanted but I had this plan of just starting out at seven because typically in bricks I come off the bike in six fifteen six feels like fine until it doesn't and then I blow up so in this case I forced myself to run at seven and I instantly got like passed by like three people coming out of transition and then I passed them back seriously within three minutes and then I never got passed on the run because I had one good battle with another guy but that was it um but never got like passed after that and I just I tried to hold seven at every aid station I grabbed uh one cup or four cups of water at every aid station basically so I would grab one pour it over my head grab another Port over like my torso and my legs and grab another import over my back and then the other one I would drink and that drink would help me take down a salt capsule and I took down salt capsules every half hour and in addition to that I also took down uh run gum halfway through the run and then gels I was taking in every half hour as well I ended up the aid stations like you planned dude no I didn't end up like uh I didn't need to and I'm not sure it would have been faster that way either because I had this pace and then toward the end of it I was really afraid to let go of this pace and drop below it at all because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to find it again and it was like seven minutes was what I was holding on to and I think I did 708 or 707 at the end of it like really close and at the end I was starting to fall off and the last six miles were brutal like it was really hard to hold the pace and I think that's how it should feel right like yes the last half you should feel like whatever pace you're trying to hold on to it's just killing you and and every step is just getting harder and harder but it's not to the point where you need to stop and that was what I that was the the perception I had the whole time but aid station walking thing too at the Iron Man races the eight stations are so long that you have more time where some of the shorter like the smaller races they're literally just like one table and if you don't stop to walk you you get one cup maybe of some somebody holding it out uh John how much how many grams per hour were you going for or did you do on the Run of carbs because that kind of hard to digest carbs yeah I had planned for 90 over the course of the day and then so a bit more on the bike and then a bit less on the run so I was going to be taking an 80 on the run I ended up doing 97 overall and zero gut distress so I did more than that yes and In The Swim or sorry in the run I took in 90. so it'd end up balancing out like uh uh pretty well so and zero got distressed I was super surprised because I was testing gels with running beforehand and everything else and I had gut distress so that's why I backed it off a bit in terms of my plan but yeah it was great it was killer zero bathroom stalls too which is great I just peed or pooped on my bike John posted on Instagram like ask your questions and I I didn't think he would post it but it did but I just said how poop and because I was worried about that I was like he's gonna be drinking salt water or you know ocean water and get all get a bad tummy and yeah for those for the longtime listeners you know this but John has had such stomach issues many years ago and the the fact that John on a triathlon which could be so hard to keep it down on the Run has made this much progress is just like fantastic like really cool John yeah one thing I forgot to mention on the bike I used a kit that I had never used before uh for the right and like oh my goodness no no um Luke McKenzie who's like a triathlon Legend from wind Republic that's his like kit company uh he was the one that that he was like I wanted to buy their kit and they didn't have it um in stock and he's like I'll have one at the race and then we can just do it then so that was one of the best kits I've ever worn in anything across the board like zero chafing zero uncomfortableness which is saying something for being in the TT position for basically the whole time it looks really good it's crazy Arrow too like in terms of the it's really good fit um it's the little KO the win Republic lucao is what I use l-u-c-e-o are you sponsored by Luke McKenzie no not sponsored by looking exactly it's super cool to meet him though because like I don't know it's kind of like a legend in my mind it's cool do you uh so are you saying it's more comfortable than cycling kits yeah and that's like uh it I don't I want to use that Chamois on cycling stuff right like I want a thicker Chamois but I want them to make the same two-in-one style skin suit because it's just like the two and the good two in ones with an open front Hannah uses them too and stuff I see there's a really comfortable way to do it but it was so comfortable um that's faster everyone the the I know for a long time it was the tank top but going down to your elbows is I'm gonna smooth out the wrinkles but it is measuredly faster yeah and it was covered in salt because I sodium loaded I did 1500 milligrams and I so one thing I found in Cape epic I did 1500 in training for it and then in the race 1500 milligrams before the night before through Precision hydrations thing their High one and then in the morning I would do another 1500 and then throughout the race I would follow a normal sodium loading plan which is like you know somewhere around like 300 or so and that I my kit was just covered in salt but I never once had a cramp either with this which was great and I Just Want To Praise John one more time I'll let you take it um so John usually in all the other races is just like ah yeah but like he destroys everybody this John has has had incredible deficits right on on Triathlon and you can see how why John is so good in mountain biking where he came on the podcast later on this with his Motocross but you can see the the issues that John has he attacks them and specifically goes against them or um he has like a systematic approach to get better at it and it sounds like John doesn't get discouraged he might be a plumber who does get discouraged when bad things happen he looks this is an opportunity to improve and I learned something and then I'm going to make adjustments for the next time and that mental state I think is why John is so successful in mountain biking over time because well he was already amazing when he joined the podcast but I bet you if we went back to his beginning Motocross days it would have been the same process in that same mindset 100 yep absolutely yeah I completely Echo that I think Jonathan I think you completely crushed it I think this is amazing I think um yeah I think this honestly goes full circle all the way back to one of the first questions we had today about you know you're not going to Podium how do you find motivation well this is it look at the way that he broke it down he made process goals he made performance goals um that's amazing so now the question is what's next and what are three things uh top three things that you'll change in training to improve next time yeah so is there next time are you doing more time yeah for sure yeah I'm gonna be like a one try a year guy I think one to two a year so I mean I think I'm gonna do exterior Lake Tahoe again this year uh nice I think it won't mess up my training too much and as of now what I'm planning on doing I'm so excited I got my mountain bike built last night in like mountain bike training it's gonna be fantastic um but on Fridays I have that day off and I like recently have been trying to find ways to manage anxiety in my life better um because it's just like affecting a lot of different areas of my life in a really negative way and I never in my life set aside time to relax ever and one of the things I'm doing on Fridays is I'm doing Friday afternoon swims so like I'm gonna train in the morning and then in the afternoons I'm going to an awesome pool that's not far like from our house in a beautiful area and I'm just gonna lay down I'm going to chill and I'm going to do a swim and I'm going to chill and lay down in the sun like a normal human and it's gonna be great so I'm still going to swim once a week I'm gonna do like 2500 to 3 000 probably in terms of distance on those swims and then and I'm going to still run for 15 to 20 minutes wait I wanna I wanna go in right there really quick and just say I think I think such a great idea not only do so many people not interest but I love that you're pairing the rest with the swim um which is something that gives you anxiety because I I think I imagine that it'll teach your brain an association of oh I go swim and when I swim I also get this beautiful time to rest and so hopefully it becomes this positive Association for you that's my hope that's what I'm going for so and I don't want to lose swimming so I'm gonna do that once a week and then I'm going to run for like 15 to 20 minutes at a time two times a week and if I do that then I won't lose this sort of thing and I'll be able to do exterior Lake Tahoe probably but I won't do another half until next fall of 2024. um I want to train when I can when it's not freezing and I have to go find an indoor pool option here that's like really a pain in Reno to find good indoor pool options whereas when it's summertime we have outdoor pools that are not crowded that would be great to use for that so yeah that's the plan can I share just some really quick thoughts that motivated me though to want to do another race um if I had average transition time it would have dropped my time from 507 to 502 and that would have brought me to 28th place instead of 34th that's not that big but it's something I can improve but if I swam at my pool Pace outside which I think I can drop my pool Pace a ton still I'm at like 133 if I'm swimming 2100 um right now is what I did before this race and I call me uh over zealous or something but I think I can get down to 120s in the pool um and I think it's totally possible like it's it's a technique so if I had my pool Pace I dropped off uh 14 minutes that would brought me to the 21st place if I did that and then I had my typical bike Fitness it would have brought me to Seventh Place in my age group and then I don't know these are all what ifs and everything else but and then if I had done all this and then I had ran like I think I could if I had really good training I think I could have averaged 6 30 for sure that would have brought me to third place in my age group so that tells me that like because I would love to do a triathlon and be fighting at the front like a half Ironman that would be amazing I know Oceanside is really hard it's like one of the most competitive half Fields out there uh for age groupers but still if I can I think that's within reach to get within top five and so that's super motivating so that's yeah I'm gonna do one again probably in the fall if there's a race today you think I should do in the fall let me know um did you enjoy it yeah I did I did honestly I get a lot and I don't want to like glorify suffering or anything else but I get a lot of like um satisfaction from going up against something really hard and like and going through it and accomplishing a lot and that's what I felt like I did that day oh it was immensely satisfying like I love that I think any listener to this podcast has that same feeling of that's what we do it it's like the feeling of accomplishment and doing something awesome and to what Hannah said this is why Triathlon is so cool because most everyone it's a race against yourself what can I accomplish what can I do how hard can I push myself you push yourself harder on the bike next time but I'm saying so proud of you like he got 34th in the it was like what 200 people or something in your age group or uh 255 I believe yeah 255 34th second Triathlon ever a swim Panic nine minute T2 uh or T1 almost 10 minute team one uh that that is like I can't tell you how that is so good John like that is like 34th I don't I've I have done a a 458 uh half though so nice nice new benchmarks but that was a completely flat course that was New Orleans so it's not comparable between the two and you yeah my first my first half was Oceanside and I did six hours uh one course is harder than I thought it would be too like mentally hard it's really straight and really long um yeah so John this is amazing uh we're really proud of you on that and you run his run was at 133 a 133 half by itself is fast much less after you know panic attack and then uh the the bike and I I really think the bike you can go that's the one that I'm I'm hoping that and two as your kid gets older other um amazing uh two of the other thing John let me talk about afterwards but with my experience with anxiety too um with trainer road we have good health insurance and I have a uh MD therapist so she can prescribe stuff but then deal um you know do techniques to reduce anxiety uh there's like these inner child techniques and stuff all of that stuff helps so much everybody and you can just um meditation too how I heard of it is like if you have a scar or something or like a a scratching piece of wood it's sanding it down so over time it Sands it down and sometimes it's just going to go away it's not going to be one time but it can lessen and lessen and lessen lessen and the amount of like joy and happiness of your life that comes through um I've noticed like I always like raise one shoulder which is a anxiety response when I'm around people of like trying to protect your neck and I'll notice it and be like Oh I'm always raising the shoulder and I'm trying to drop it and I I wasn't even aware of that until this last year but I think I've done it my whole life so these I'm just all the guys out there because I know therapy with with men we think that something's bad call it a brain coach this is your brain coach you're going to help you get your brain on we all need brain coaches we do other things that we get coach trainer road is going to coach you for uh all of this hopefully we can you know from afar coach you on some tactics and techniques but get a brain coach for yourself good call the last thing I just want to say is uh thanks to fan or like friend of the podcast Nick Goldston uh I didn't have family there or anything else it was just me solo and Nick was there at the Finish Line like and and helping me out and chatting with me it was just awesome and he was like with me all week too not with me he had a lot to do he was still setting aside time to chat and to support super cool and it's so cool to meet so many of you out there I met tons it was great um pretty cool you on the course ever anyone recognize you on the course yeah yeah like positively yeah The Vibes on that course are insane it was so cool two this is another one that's awesome The Vibes and I know he's like The Vibes in triathlon I heard one person be mean the whole time everyone else was like amazingly encouraging and it was so hilarious the one guy that was mean we were on the second lap of the run it looked like they were just onto the run and he somebody passed him on the right and by the way like at that point when you're way back with all of us age groupers that run is a scrum like you're surrounded by people people are passing on the right and left and why can't you pass on the right on the run I know so he goes he he heals and he goes hey man you pass on your left is this your first day and I looked over and I kid you not guess what his kit said it said some sort of town cycling team and I was like he's the only Roadie here and sure enough he's the one that's being mean everyone else is so happy and kind so to me that was just a defense mechanism he was he was probably cracking so tired and he was just mad that he was getting passed in general yeah Hannah is that is that a rule I've never on the on the bike yes but on the run you pass anywhere you want yeah yeah I've never heard that as a rule it's his first day between us between Hannah and I we have one world championship and life like so we know what we're talking about yeah yeah it was great it was awesome so I'm glad we saved this to the end of the podcast we went long on it but if you enjoyed that and you got some takeaways hopefully it was great if you're listening to this podcast now you're watching it on YouTube give it a thumbs up that's going to make more people find it subscribe to our YouTube channel go rate the podcast and rate the trainer Road up that's the sort of thing that you can do to help us and we're looking forward to talking to you next week take care good luck this weekend Hannah thank you good luck yeah thank you

Channel: TrainerRoad

Views: 119,872

Keywords: trainer road, cycling, triathlon, training, indoor trainer, trainerroad, power, fitness, cycling training, cycling training plan, training plan, triathlon training, analytics, performance analytics

Id: CHRYRd9jveI

Length: 137min 54sec (8274 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 06 2023