Tim Keller and John Piper Discuss the Influence of C.S. Lewis

November 22 this year 2013 marks 50 years since one of our formative heroes died es lewis' and we wanted to talk about that for a few minutes we have I have and I think you did too a really pretty profound appreciation and affection for CS Lewis who was he and what I'm fishing for here is just your favorite way of kind of if somebody does never heard of him in Manhattan and you say he really made a big impact on my life and they want to know who he is what would you say mm-hmm well I would say he was actually a world-class scholar of English literature you know he wrote a his survey of English literature of the 16th century is still you know the one to go for he was an expert on medieval literature so he was a world-class scholar in his own right and he was a Christian layman who was unusually wise about getting Christianity across to other people so he spoke as well he was not a theologian he always said but because he just he understood texts and how to read text and because he was a such a brilliant man he he's still pretty difficult to to beat at this point I think at just in a vivid way getting across Christianity in a way that's palpable with thoughtful people so how did he find his way into your life or you into his oh yes well my wife Kathy became a Christian largely through reading the Narnia Chronicles really did when she was a about 10 or 11 years old and if you know Kathy you know that she's you know she's hmm she's not a passive person so she wrote him she started writing him telling him how wonderful his letters were at his his Chronicles of Narnia work she he wrote her back four times because he always wrote you got those letters I have those letters yes and they were remarkable he did not talk down to her he recognized that she was like an 11 or 12 year old American girl and that to her cemented him as her Christian mentor when I met Cathy she just snowed me with CS Willis books and I'd already met one man so you didn't know him at that time yes I did because I met a man who was when I became a Christian there was a it through InterVarsity fellowship in my college an older young young man he seemed too older to me who was a leader in the Fellowship had become a Christian reading mayor Christianity so I had heard of him and read a little bit of it but Mike Mike Cathy just says we cannot have a relationship unless unless you read this and she actually wrote a senior thesis at Allegheny College of senior thesis undergraduate called CS Lewis's mythopoetic view of literature and this was like 1971 so she was ahead of the curve on American interests in CS Lewis yeah interesting so that was college years when that was happening your introduction - yes I mean I got to know her just as we went off to gordon-conwell Seminary I knew her sister in college so I threw my sister her sister I started reading CS Lewis books even before I actually got to know Kay so do you fix Lewis as a period piece in your life in other words he had a huge shaping influence at a period in time or do you think of Lewis's as ongoing your relationships til this day on going for two reasons John one is because Lewis was at the heart of Oxford and Cambridge which was really the heart of the english-speaking intellectual world it is astounding and you know this - how in the 30s and 40s he saw where Western where Western civilization was going he was remarkable in the abolition of man he is remarkable in anticipating what now is called post-modernism he is not a period piece intellectually in spite of the fact that he was a man of his time in certain ways no doubt about that everybody is we are we will be seeing that way and just pretty soon but here ially knew it was on the way and he's not talking to intellectual trends that are you know dated and gone and really the other thing of course is that he is just a he's he's a man of the imagination and I have just tell you this interest as I've read recently a up comparison it was an essay compared for books mere christianity basic christianity reason for god and anti rights simply christian hmm so you know john stott yeah I was honored yeah but you should be but said this that Maher Christianity uses about five times more illustrations and images and pictures than these other three books which are largely abstract I mean the charge was that these other books were rather abstract so at least I was in there with John Stott and in T right as having been you know an abstract thing right so I hear at least two important influences there let's take them one at a time the cultural engagement piece what was it about the way he went about it that has influenced you or that would be helpful for us to discern it because you said it wasn't as though he tackled dated issues and when the issue went away he went away right but rather he did something that we're still benefiting from today in our engagement so how did he do that well he not only did that but he did it imaginative ly so for example he said if you he says what's what's happening today is that everyone wants to he didn't use word deconstruct but he says every time somebody says this is right or this is wrong this is true people try to say well that's really just this it's just a power play it's really just your cultural perspective is it it's just really and he says they try to see through it instead of saying yes they want to see through it and take it apart then he uses this illustration he says the the point of seeing through a window is so you can see the garden beyond the window is transparent you know this illustration I'm joy Arden is not so he says the bright have seen through something is only so you can see something else yes they says if if you could see through everything transparent world would be to be blind and his last line is to see through everything is the same as not to see to take everything apart be cynical about everything is the same as not to see now that not only is absolutely crucial for our moment yeah because people right now I know are afraid to say anything because everything is going to be taped torn apart no matter what it's just this is just that but this so vividly say it's like being blind nobody has ever said it as well as that it's in the abolition of man somewhere so he combined the knowledge of intellectual trends with this wonderful ability to speak pictorially and in that sense he could have been a pretty good preacher did did he tackle specifics in his day I mean we have the specific today of abortion or of so-called same-sex marriage or healthcare issues or trafficking issues or racial prejudice issues these these are hot-button issues that evangelicals feel the need to address did you do that sort of thing well he I think what he was signing the proto you might say they're sort of the preliminary trends that have led to where we are this is one place in in the last of his his space trilogy you know that hid his strength where he was somebody is brought into what's called the objective room and in the objective room there's a there's a there's a man who's being brought in the inner circle of this very evil group and they say we want you to step on a picture of Jesus and basically he says well wait what was so big about Jesus isn't it all just you know it's not just poppycock anyway all that religious stuff he says well because you came from a Christian you know because of Christendom if you're really going to be totally objective and free from all this público you have to particularly be angry at Christianity it's very intriguing it's so he wasn't dealing with the specific examples that we have today but he was looking at the trends that Matt had on only he knew where they were gonna go but he's dealing with those trends and that's the reason why I find in some ways he goes back to the source and helps me not just look at the stack this okay you know manifestation of the problem but to go at the under the other line so I was going to ask go ahead and say just a bit more about that because I think you're good at that I think that's what you tend to do you you somebody asks you a question about this issue and and you have a way of dealing with the théâtre beliefs here or whatever they are that that are making that an issue because if you only say wrong because of this then then when that goes away that significant yes moment goes away yes so how did he have an effect on the way you do that I think so yeah a famous passage in abolition of man or he says for the you know the ancients the cardinal problem was how to how to conform your life to the way the world is and the solution was virtue and wisdom today the point is to try to conform the world our desires and the answer is a technique so the ancient times the idea was how do I see how God has made the world and wisdom is adapting to that and now we're gonna remake the world the way we want and the solution is technique and that's you know jocular with with a technological side if you read his book on that you see that's that is the problem we tend to especially tend to now talk about technology very very positively because it is positive in many ways medical technology communication technology but people like Louis were recognizing technique as a technic as an idol as as an idol basically a way for us to say we can make the world whatever we want it to be that's the sort of thing that he helped me see

Channel: Desiring God

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Length: 10min 30sec (630 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 18 2013