THOSE THAT WERE THERE TALK ABOUT THE KRAYS – MEGA COMPILATION.

Viet their mother who was immensely respectable I mean I knew her really quite well she was a sort of cotne Queen Mother and you know her boys were her bunny rabbits and she never you know her boys would never do anything and she genuinely believed it they idolized the mother not so much the old man no they used to have their RS with the old man because he didn't like what they was doing you know no one likes their children to be like they was the old grandfather was a hero for who was called Cannonball Lee The southp Cannonball he used to be an old boxer who then did musical turns well he was like a normal thing an old be knuckle fighter them days my grandfather was a bear knuckle fighter twins idolized him it was honest money hard money and I think that was the reason why everyone in the eastn wanted to box there was a fantastic amount of kids in the area who got great play going into the craze gym which was a room a bedroom they would put up um a a punch bag and a ball and Charlie T them out of box I think he would have been British champion quite easily quite easily Ronnie was beaten several times cuz he never had the temperament he never had the up beer for it after they were 16 177 Charlie was saying to me one day can't you you do something about our Twins and I said Charlie nobody can do anything about your twins you know you got to realize your twins are quite powerful in their own way and uh no I couldn't do anything about them they won't listen to anybody when I first knew them they I found them very uh amusing in a way you know and um though there was the excitement of danger around them I used to I used to laugh at their their antics you know I met them many Saturday mornings they were always getting themselves nicked on Friday night and appearing caught on Saturday morning there were the sort of thing that wouldn't go further than the magistrates Court things like being a suspected person the old sus laws and they were charged again and again with that type of crime or trying car door handles you know very soy things well I got charged they was at the Old Bailey I think it was I know it was a big they was young at the time it was the first serious offense it happened in club row and they had bicycle chains and they chained him on the floor and it he was on the danger list when he punched Ronnie in the back that changed Ronnie's attitude to policeman generally he just it was a bully of a man bashed him in the battle Ron he done him didn't he Crush bang you know worse thing he could have done cuz a fi kid and then chased Reggie and that that that happened outside hooker's calf the first time on the corner of um of map Street and then the next time he chased he caught Reggie and Reggie bashed him as well you know and of course he'd been up by two two boys two youths he didn't know he'd been up by two years well he didn't catch Reggie CU Reggie L there but he went around his house to Nick him and the family collectively said you're not you're not taking him in and giving him a bashing look at Ronnie in there look at his face and the governor come around with banson to Nick Reggie and they finally let him go and I think I think they got cautioned in I don't think they went away and got a caution shepon Mallet well there's a good breeding ground for Crime all sorts of choice characters figured in their latest story when they was in the tower Shep them melet they they they wouldn't know worse than anybody else thing it was in when all this killing and all that come about that they got worse than everybody else came out of the army and um taken over the billiad hall which was their first Venture into business when the twins took over the Regal it was a big place it wasn't a small place you know it was a big place laid at the back of marlin station Eric street by the carsite on the front they congregated there with people their met in the Army Dicky Morgan and various other people who people of like kind invariably you got a lot of the fly by nights in there you know they always got a pair of shoes or a shirt they're selling or something like that it was more like the labor exchange for thieves really you went in there and see if anything was on offer and that sort of thing they had people that sort of work for him and uh running about for him and doing their their biding but not villain I'm not talking about none of that villain game because they would if they had the needle with someone they would ask somebody else to go and do it they would go and do it themselves each area of London had its own U had its own organized crime group if you like it was neighborhood based they made their money from thieving from stealing and also from various kinds of extortion the big area to plunder immediately after the war was the West End of London and the main players there you had jack spot coma and you had Billy Hill both men of violence and they clashed it was a clash over territory it was a clash over personalities and as far as the relationship with the CRA were concerned the CRA were really seen as lightly lads who were coming through these were highly marketable young men who proved themselves as local men of violence in the East End of London and were being spotted by these uh older Elder Statesmen of crime as as being uh possible cohorts they were in fact spot men really uh originally the story is that they were hired by spot to defend him uh at the spring meeting at Epsom in what I think 1955 I can remember Ronnie saying um we're going to the races I said what do you know about the races R he said well not a lot he said we could soon learn and we're going with Jack spot and he was loved the idea he was a funny man he used to sort of hold Court in um what the Cumberland Hotel at Marble Arch sort of very much like sort of one of the oldtime mafosi with a sort of fedora hat on in a smart suit and having his boots polished a spot was on the decline the men he'd had had defected to hill where the pickings were an awful lot better and he eventually quarrels with a man called Albert dimes who was the hill number two and they had a celebrated fight in fith Street where they cut each other to Ribbons I've gone around one day and there's jack spot you know this man who Ronnie was in awe of sitting in their kitchen with Lord knows cuts on his face like nothing you know Bo he looked up at me and he was sitting down and he said I'll be back son I'll be back and I thought you w be coming back anywhere you'll finish me you know your days of being number one gangster over spot fell right at the picture what there was left of him yeah well Reggie might say that Billy Hill was was his role model because he was smarter he was in his opinion cleverer than spot and um and he was also in Reggie's opinion um more like Reggie than Ronnie Billy Hill was the great example to them because Billy Hill was one of the few people actually having spent 17 years in the Nick he did finally make a bit of money out of crime Billy hill was a user simple and straightforward as say they was being used to use violence on other people um for a pance and they wasn't satisfied with having a pance they said well we'll have the lot there was a big big meeting ELD in clerkenwell where it was decided what certain people would get what jack spot was getting previous after that particular meeting the twins was the governor of [Music] everything Ron was pathetic you know he was had massive breakdown he was he was certified and R always had to look after him you see wife and um long got three years had the old B and he went in Winchester prison and whil there um some trouble got certified and so he went to Long gr which is a mental hospital and um he he decided that he wanted to have it away from there he told me on visit when Ronnie was was incarcerated in a mental hospital there was a switch uh between Reggie and Ronnie Ronnie walks out when Reggie's come to do the visiting and no one seems to notice that Ronnie isn't Reggie and vice versa for some time police were called but I never saw any police cuz I called before I was called enough to see see the doctor and he said well you're very fortunate I can't do anything about this he said you brought trouble on your own head which I suppose I did in the long run because it didn't work out um C WR was on any medication and So eventually had to go back to Long prison but all the papers at the side so know reputation a b why Reggie done what he done to get him out of there was was crazy to begin with because Rod needed medical attention he's always needed medical [Music] attention reg started the Double R Club The Double R means Ron and reg in moram stod and uh rege became even then very keen on celebrities well it was a big ass that's all the dou r was I mean it wasn't like a club at all it was just two big rooms and yet Reggie always labbed that because it was the very first club that they had actually owned Esra alers was in nightsbridge and um I think this is one of the things that led to their downfall because they really well they were off their manner it was big mistake because uh instead of leaving it alone and keeping away from there and just popping their head in now and again they took the East End to kns bridge you had second cousins to the queen and all that going in there all ey people all with some wrong with them I'm sorry you know every one of them had something wrong with them they like boys or if it was a woman she'd be a lesbian or something like that you know cranky hold a lot of them but Ronnie you couldn't sit him amongst them type of people you know he stick out like a sore fun and I suppose the nights but set they they found amusing to start with we seeing all these scar faces and pug uglies roaming around and but they're sitting down with a with a East End cab driver and a Lord and Lady somebody sitting the other side you know and then and then of course uh when when uh a few checks were were made out and they a bit late being um being oned uh the twins wouldn't uh two or three weeks go by and they would be around putting pickaxes through uh rolls royes and things like that you know the next Club there was a Kentucky which had a big splash there a lot of celebrities there they knew one thing about them they did know a lot of good top celebrities you know what I mean Judy Garland as you know all them sort of people it was always packed seven days a week but again the twins never earned no money out of clubs because the simple reason is everyone would come in they was buying drinks for they put their money about they had no sense with money money was was worthless to them they just spent there as fast as they got it and and give it away if you said to him I like you watch it you take it off and give it to you R he was so generous in that way for Ronnie it was never really about money for Reggie it was really about money Reggie wanted to be a an Adept businessman Ronnie would never allow it Ronnie would go to whereever they were working and he would take whatever he wanted whatever it was right if they had 200 p in the till he' give me £ 150 they had loads of clubs in the Finish like pistoles not not like clubs at all you know uh unauthorized spills where the gambling went on they the what Albert used to call the milk man he used to go and collect the money from all these places of course then they go in when the Americans come over the Americans expected to pay a little bit of um what do you call Protection money but it was just uh you know sort of favor money to keep all their nuisances out if they have any problems and knockers and upsetting their clubs they could call on the twins one big payment was a quarterly payment from the colony in uh Mayfair paid by the mafia and they was paying I think 32,000 a quarter to keep us out we thought we were too thuggish mafoo talking like that it suddenly clicked in my mind um Ronnie thinks it's George Raft and Ronnie I think was in love with him but everything he did his way of dressing his gestures his way of speaking everything was George Raft and that's what he thought he was there they all were in this background of 60s culture booming around the West End in the ch you set in this whole area and they were this weird weird pair and the weirdest of the two was Ron and he became weirder and weirder more and more popular more and more talked about or popular he was talked about he was feared he was an unbelievable character if a famous personality was coming from abroad or anything like that they would take it on their back to to meet him and be seen with them to be photographed with with them and that in itself makes them a personality in their own right how did you feel when you met people like Joe Lou I enjoyed meeting them a lot cuz they were me boy hero and when I met them I was very pleased to meet him and when the pr made a big thing in since then I can't understand the reason because I'm sure everyone would like to meet Joe whether would be present War champ today or tomorrow whenever past present or future if they was out on the evening time that they'd want to be have their photo done with a star or something like to keep them up the front like that's all it was theyd always wanted to be somebody's I mean I always remember o Ron his great remark was you know better better a somebody than a [Music] nobody it was like a a family home you know and it was just a a small little terorist house and uh Twins and the mom and dad slept upstairs there was a front room and a little kitchen you know it was a tiny little place it was the cleanest most polished house I've ever seen and decorated in the style of a a canal Longboat with pictures of Rochester castle and roses and you know the the traditional type of um decoration lots of polished brass each interior door had a white lace curtain over it tied back with uh pink bows it was something unique there was a super abundance of Kit I've never seen so much including this wonderful mirror shaped like a guitar hanging from one wall over the sideboard Fort Valance that was the nickname um and sometimes you deserved it because they had everything and their guns knives you name it you know I went to Fort Valance on one occasion after we'd had a victory in the magistrates Court I went back with my instructing cisa's managing clerk who was a wonderful old character called paty pacam who knew all the East End villains and we had tea and violet gave us tea and so I saw Fort Valance it was an extraordinary experience because there was a conference going on in each room uh over different matters and violet presiding at the bottom in her curers and she brought tea Onre up to each conference room but she was a lovely woman a lovely woman I she's typical mom heed M I took my used take my kids around there and she would get by there and take them in a kitchen give them something to eat and make him a Sandage and and she was typical e mother and uh very kind and affectionate and I mean she loved the the twins like any mother they they can't see no harm in them and uh obviously she must have worried about them and what they were doing but I mean they never spoke in front of her it was always in in another room nothing was ever said in front of violet at the end she must have sort of known what was you know what I was up to her that because she the ass was that small you couldn't really talk in there she couldn't hear people used to come out of prison say and knock on the door at Valance Road not no one was ever turned away no one they always give them 2020 which was a lot of money them days I've never seen anything like it before or since and it was Violet's pride and joob die in her [Music] kingdom there was no question Ronny Cay didn't want to do anything other than be a gangster um he knew there was money in being a ganger but the power was more important to him he wanted to be Legs Diamond Al Capone he wanted to be the colonel you know he wanted to be feared by people he loved people being feared by people that was a kind of man that he was when he was called the colonel he was the colonel yeah he had a little army of about 10 people he could call on other people but nothing to do with a firm they were fantasists too see they they loved gangster movies they loved the idea of being gangsters it was very interesting once I remember asking R Ron what what what books have you you ever read that really influenced you got a very funny answer he said two books he said one was Boy Town course he all about boys and I like boys I said what's the other one he said it's uh Anthony nutting book on General Gordon he said I love General Gordon he's my hero so I said why he said because he was gay like me and he faced overwhelming odds and died like a man Ronnie wanted to be like him he wanted him to think like him and and Reggie wasn't that type of person he he wasn't Reggie could have an argument with you like everybody else and he could hit you on the chin walk away and forget completely about the argument Ronnie couldn't do that you know Ronnie would mentally he would he would want to really hurt you and hurt you bad Ron was terrifying he wanted to be he really could look so evil I mean just hear Ron say you [ __ ] was in a way no one has ever ever said it in my life before you would an insult Ronnie you wouldn't say one word about Ronnie because if he heard of it he he would come looking for you yeah he'd have um a couple of midgets to come along you know cuz he's he had a Circ Touch of circus thing of the old East End circus stuff you these midgets are coming and say hello they say you know we're friends of Reggie and Ronnie if you don't tell the truth about us we'll kill you bang bang you say and the pub would Roar with laughter at this Ronnie cray was insane at certain times in his life he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia which isn't if isn't controlled by medication it's very dangerous he was partially Sedated by an old East End doctor who I used to know called Dr blaska Who used to prescribe pills to him and they weren't the right pills and Ron would come out of this state but he wasn't properly sedated blasa looked after him ever since he was about 17 onwards with pills yeah every single day well it quietened him down there's no two ways about that I mean from raging lunatic he would be s in there like a zombie he wasn't the same um person one day as he was the day before you know and the influence he had over rege uh in my opinion um was great you know and not only V 90% of the other people in the East End that he worked with you know nothing much regie he wasn't too bad in that respect it was Ronnie Ronnie was looking for a Kill kill kill Reggie was more businesslike bit more sensible did violent don't worry about that he was a violent vicious man but it was more directed uh there's more reason behind his [Music] violence well runny done it for fun went rest ERS Bary nights Bri when I walked in I walked into the kitchen Ronnie was standing opposite there opposite me as I walked in but when he turned that's when I see these I called them pokers but they were cold Steels what they sharpen knives on you know he had them on the gas and I thought so he's trying to fight me like you know I mean anyway he come over with the Poke he started burning me air off you know I had F cly ear then and he come up to me he just went like that and then he put it across there and uh then he took that poker back and he went back got another one off and he held it across my eyes there and I shut my eyes then so he said open your [ __ ] eyes you saying to me I so BL me he now going to burn your [ __ ] eyes out now all this is melted now and uh someone at the back they just sh it out no R not that and he just like that Switched Off he walked away said right you can go now as if nothing had happened you had to be on your guard with Ronnie like 99% of the time you know because as you say he was never the same you know one day to the next Ronnie gave me a gun in a club in the West End he wanted Connie to be shot he said don't shoot him to kill him shoot him in the legs Connie was in the toilet then and I went in there and I said Ronnie once you shot there's a gun got out of the toilet quick and that was it I went back and I says he's gone out but there was many a time that Ronnie and Reggie spoke about knocking Connie off a week later it be changed his mind and Connie would be back on the firm that is how the colonel Ronny cry carried on just lunatic Ronnie was getting too violent and all Ronnie wanted to do is hurt everybody you know um couldn't be happy to get up and have a day a night out or a day out without someone's got to get hurt somewhere through some ludicrous thing you know I walked up to the bar and stood there said hello to a few people who are recognized bought a drink and I noticed people drifting away from me left and right and I knew something was going on I turn around Reggie's trying to cop an automatic pistol if you don't mind the next hour I know bang I'm shutting the leg times and time again when we went to clubs uh if Ronnie seen a stranger in coming into his domain he didn't like it he would make a point going over and sticking one right on him and it didn't stop there it was a it was a kicking we all stood by we would grab Ron cuz Ronnie would do you Rony was a Nutter I'd met a man named David lenov who had upset them uh he was a good informant of ours but we didn't run his name in the paper he was he told us a lot of what had gone on lenov had his mouth widened with a sword uh and understand that Ronnie had held it in two hands and done that to his mouth while somebody else was holding him still and widen his mouth and it was a gesture that he' made to him for something that David lenoff had said and it was a case of well if you all going to use your mouth like that as a big mouth I'll show you what a big mouth looks like and cut his face nearly ear to ear the extraordinary thing is that David L for office in hospital 2 Days Later Ronnie came and visited him brought him flowers and said I hope you're all right I hope you'll recover soon that was the man Ronnie was in this glub and and and the guy came up to him and said hello Ron how you doing you're putting a bit of waiting aren't you and Ronnie made some remark then went out of the club got in his car and was driven off and he said hang on turn around and they turned around and went back it just shows how cold and calculated and then anticipatory was of about what he was going to do because he went back into and he said come here you took him in the toilet and striped him down both cheeks and they called this guy tram lines that was his name after that some people nearly died you know we would have to wrap them up and S it to sort of stem the blood and then take them drop them outside Landon hospital was it and uh that was regular regular thing little Mickey Morris um they beat the life out of him like the two of them you know um for no reason whatsoever a young fighter young ex- fighter one of one of Ronnie's exboyfriend again upset him for some reason and he just took a g KNE and just started hacking into him practically killed a kid face head hand back wherever it was possible to hear I think we wed him in a bed quilt some sort and again dumped him outside the hospital could have died from lot of blood if he hadn't been picked up straight away me they were always fighting Ronnie and Reggie was always fighting if the crowd was around the pub like that and Ronnie and Reggie was there if an argument was starting between Ronnie and Reggie the crowd would gradually and gradually move right out of the way they didn't want to get involved if they got involved the two of them would turn on them that's how they were they might be raring about something on the morning and they'd come in the snow gr then all of a sudden one of the other would start lashing out at the other one it'd be fighting yeah when they R there were like two two girls around you know like your sisters over boyfriends or makeup or something all their brooms they just scream and shout at each other one day Ronnie was um having a go about Reggie's wife and Noby clar fool as he is joined in so now nothing was done straight away they didn't work like that it would register and they would save it up use it when it was time between 12:00 and 2: in the morning Reggie was stinking drunk and Ronnie kept going up and saying why don't you go over and get that little bastard go on get a gun and go and shoot him so we went over there no's coming down the stairs and what you do at this time what do you want what do you want can't you see me in the morning he never dream what was going to happen next regie put the gun up to shoot his head off I got a hold the knobby and I punched him and he fell down regie shot him but ended up going in his foot or his leg I think Francis had a had a raw deal she'd have been better off not to even got with Reggie in the beginning because you can't take a person from normal environment put her into an environment like that before they even got engaged or anything that I was on a boat with him going to France and uh he' bought her a lovely necklace they had a rare and invariably their rise was only over the the family and the way that they treated Francis and she had good reason to you know they didn't treat her nice at all and what happened was she ripped the necklace off of and threw it overboard Frances wanted a different life and she didn't want to be at all night long in clubs and things like that you know she didn't want that leis Chester a colleague with mine and I went to the wedding of Reggie cray and Franc Shay Reggie entered with his bride and a hymn was struck up by the organist which the congregation didn't know I could see Ronny cray who was best man uh becoming very fidgety in his Pew and he kept turning around uh with an erasable look in his face the organist played on and Ronnie finally got up and stroe down the aisle and he said in the loudest stage whisper sing [ __ ] you sing they wasn't left alone to like be husband and wife um he couldn't stay over night like an ordinary person could it' be a phone call and he'd have to go to this club or that club and you know or Ronnie had won him on it was like really having a if you're married into a big family having a family interfering in your marriage and that's what it was like with him and Ron you know the hostility was there continuous cuz Ronnie used to really really go to time with her you know where you tell me he didn't know how to touch a woman to excite her didn't want to W her that's so he said didn't want to WOTE her didn't know how to touch her shine Francis mother revealed that her daughter's marriage to Reggie cray had never been consumated the marriage quickly fell apart when she broke up from him I had to drive Reggie around to that house four or five times a week and used to throw little Stones up in the window she wouldn't come in the window few times but then once or twice she would come and we just go leave go away and leave me alone she just didn't want to know show funeral buried in a wedding dress open cofin my main job on that day was to make a note of everybody who we knew who hadn't sent flowers which I thought was pretty sick myself there you go when Francis died but she lived in our house for about nine months you know and um that would try to help him through his you know his bereavement you know I think he was so much in love with her it just you know it really broke his heart you know when she died Reggie thought so much of FR he's he's life ended that's the way he looked at it told me so his own math for some time the had been competing with a rival firm from South London the Richardsons an allout gang war was imminent Ronnie always wanted to shoot somebody who was in The Firm from across the water he hated the Richard absolutely hated them he always thought that the richens would come along with the guns and there' been a r shootout we'd all been paired off given a name an address where they drank girlfriend's house wife's house all that information and we were just waiting for the off the Call to Arms never came the Richardson gang were involved in a shootout at Mr Smith's Club in South London there was a desperate fight uh in March 1955 uh between um Eddie Richardson and Frankie Fraser who were business partners on the one hand and uh some people called the Hayward and their friends on the other more or less everybody who'd been in the club was charged with a Fray and that took out really most of the Richardson if I can say team George conel was one member of the Richardson gang not present at the shooting when the Richardson went down that's when they went after JY you know but I don't think they'd have done it if the Richard wasn't in prison you know cuz he was on his own now all the others are away he was a on the P fighter George he could he could have R George yeah couldn't he tell he could yeah yeah uh and he had no fear he was the only man I swear to God that I ever see he came into the grave Morris Pub you know one day and uh he Ronn is with his little boys you understand and uh he came in on his own the fir there if you like all the crap and there's and uh they went to get him a drink and he went no no no he said I don't drink with uh you and your little Puffs and had his drink and walked out but it wasn't long after that that the old now was gone in the cof you know mean and it was he was on top for him you know me what happened was the next night uh after the fight Cornell goes to visit a man in hospital in North London and wether out of radoo whether out of just recklessness or whether he never thought anything was going to happen at all goes into the blind begger Ronnie cray went to the pub with Ian Barry and Scott Jack Dixon and shot Cornell dead this say drive me up to the blind Beggars so as we're going up there he sticks a gun in Ian's hand and says here put that in your pocket and he tells me where to pull up he goes in he couldn't have been in there any more than about 3 4 minutes the guns went off Ian didn't know what to do gun out and he shot the ceiling I could never understand why he went down for murder R he gets into the car laugh on his head off I've done it I've done it I've actually shot him I've shot that bastard Corell I just done the bastard he said drinking in our Mana took it as a bit of an insult he was quite convinced he done the right thing and sorted him out I know Charlie Richardson in his book said that Ron needed his sacrificial victim and I think you know Charlie Richardson was a smart guy he got it right I think he was his sacrificial victim he did get shot for calling someone a fat puff W that just shows you the state of run his mind in the end you know we had a girl a nurse in a London Hospital given us updates and she told us that he'd been transferred to another hospital neurological unit then I think about half 3 in the morning we got the message he's died after all little cheer went up from the crowd and that was it that was the end of Corel after killed Cornell what does he do he goes into his flat holes up hiding from where he think is after him in fact they weren't after him playing records of Winston Churchill's wartime speeches well that's no normal murderer that's very weird and they were weird everybody in his friend knew Ronnie cray shot corner he didn't hide it um the authorities knew they couldn't find anybody to pin it on um because Witnesses lack of witnesses Cornell there's no point in shooting the PO buer no point at all you know the G the war supposed war with Richardson was over because the Richardson were all in the neck by then so there's no point in going in shooting him in the blind beggar but it was necessary for the cult by December 1966 The Craze felt Invincible to enhance their growing reputation a they hatched an audacious plan to Spring one of England's most dangerous criminals from dark Mall prison Frank Mitchell the mad axman he had been in the system since he was about 12 and he'd never been out of it his first conviction was for stealing a fairy cycle and the Dreadful thing was that from that moment his life had a ghastly inevitability in it he it he went to Industrial school it was called and then days but what now would be a secure accommodation and then he went to bostel and he went through the system he never got out but every time he entered a new institution he got into more trouble within the institution he'd been flogged and birched and incarcerated for most of his adult life the most recalcitrant of all prison uh offenders and then it suddenly turned completely into a cooperative and and uh yielding kind of a a prisoner so that he was able to go onto a working party for a con he had a pretty good life on Dore come and go as he pleased hey give him a sort of Free Run free rain letting him feed the ponies they were taking girls down there so that Frank Mitchell could enjoy them and they were taking money down there so that he could go off and when he was supposed to be working on fences or under the supervision of a prison officer he was off to Tavy stock to buy another budgie most people they say oh I'll be out in 4 years 3 years 2 years whatever they know their release date but Mitchell didn't he was complaining about this and Ron said don't worry we'll get you out come and work with us Mitchell was to be brought out of prison to join joined the gang in order to give weight to to their uh to their uh firm when they enjoined in their battle with the Richardsons in in March the Richardsons had this frar in uh in the Mr Smith's club and they were all wiped up and so the need to bring Mitchell out was gone on December 12th 1966 the twins sent Albert donu and Teddy Smith to the West country to pick up Mitchell off the [Music] more today we picked Mitchell up uh we came up from London came off the exit Road over the hill here parked up here as was already planned but the actual fact we didn't think it was going to happen but uh Teddy Smith went in the phone box to was a reason for being here at about 20 minutes and then big Frank strolled around to bend here as though he own the place in the car got him changed took a big LLY great ties and tight knife off him then we packed all his prison Gear Up and chucked it over a hedge where it was found a couple of days later and we were home in London thought it was on the radio the authorities launched a massive search The Craze arranged for Mitchell to hide out in a flat tended by Scott Jack Dixon he was already in the flat when I went in I put my hand out as if he was a long lost friend cuz we had all he heard so much about Frank he was a janifer fell bit simple in his ways uh I dare say that you couldn't pick a fight with a man like him I don't know why the twins thought they could control him but all the authorities psychiatrists mental institutions rampton Broadmore they all failed that they for some reason thought they could control him but they couldn't M Tedy Smith who was the driver on The Dore pickup fed himself as a bit of an author and uh he would go there every day and write these letters to various newspapers politicians that sort of thing all we wanted was a few letters to go to the newspapers and say I'm quite prepare to come back if I get a release date when we got the first uh letter printed in the newspaper I bought papers and fetch them back in and I says look you're in the news again oh great great Oh They'll soon give me a date nor is it poor soul never got a date the days went by and he was getting restless very very restless anyway wa to seen Reggie I said Reggie somebody's got to come over and see him he's doing his nut and he wants to see one of the twins just said would you like a young girl Frank but calm him down and he said oh yeah she was an hostess and like many OES is unfortunately a like prostitutes so she was there to give him a service and she which she agreed uh and she got paid for it and once he got the girl most of the time he stayed in bed having sex used to get the meals in bed both of them Frank fell in love with her and in a way she liked Frank they say she was kidnapped she she could have left that flat it was only an ordinary Council flat she could have left that any time she wished to I mean he had asleep and while he was asleep she could have got and walked out the door we weren allowed to use the phone she was a prisoner not that she knew about being a prisoner but she was a prisoner because Frank didn't want her to go and he started getting a bit edgy and he said um if the twins didn't come and see him he'd go and see them he knew where they lived because he'd been writing to him when he was away and they took this as a threat and uh this plot was hatched get rid of him they had their reputation uh to live up to and if they offered him up to the place and got him arrested sent back to prison how would that look and how would that stand so Ronnie being Ronnie he he wanted him to uh disappear off the face of the earth I could perform these sort of tasks without any problems and I thought we said I said but this this is the last one when I said you know I'm not getting involved in anymore after this you know this is it I said um do this one favor for me you know and and uh it was Christmas building up the Christmas week and uh I got a business to R I got kids I got the boo to look after and all the things that were going on at the time bits of aggro indoors I mean you get all this and this is on top of it all you know it's the last thing I wanted I needed to do or be asked to do I was very reluctant really but um they give me word and I said I'll do it I'll take care of it there was a plot between Charlie Reggie Freddy Foreman I was present in the house but not in the room there another guy guy who owned the house and then they came out Charlie came to me he said want you to meet Freddy can Bridge make arrangements to get Mitchell out the flat as he Trust he trusted me don't got him off the mall so I was used to get him out of the flat separating from the girl telling me he's going to the country to have Christmas with Ronnie and Ronnie don't want any women running around the place he went for that led him out of the flat into the van he left the flat with Frank M walked around the corner and uh he was to just put him in the back of the van and walk go back to the flat why for whatever reason he climbed up in the front I don't know cuz he wasn't supposed to do that on the left hand side is Freddy foreman and Elie Gerard Callahan gets in the passenger seat once the door slammed he started firing then uh um he's Mitchell still moving and graning on the floor so Geral said I'm empty give him another one Fred now he lean forward and po down him behind the ear the situation in the van got out of van and uh it had to be done there and then yeah it wasn't that wasn't the plan the plan was to get well down the road but uh things don't always work out as as you expect we all heard the chots and we commented on him well Lisa was the first she screamed they shot they' shot she wasn't a fool the girl I got out of the van all right walked away still wasn't quite sure whether I'd get one in the back of the nut or not but 5 minutes maybe less than that Albert come back and says he gone now get your gear Lisa I'm taking you to Reggie but Al assured her nothing will happen to you I briefed I said when you go and talk to R don't mention bangs otherwise you'll go swimming I said you just go there and say he say where do you think Frank's gone so he's gone to the country to be it running that's what he told me and leave it at that you start talking about bangs it's all over anyway she passed that little interview and she survived he cried he CRI yeah so that's how much reie was knew about it he broke down and sat on the stairs and cried 11 days after Mitchell's escape from dartmore Foreman with the help of a trollman disposed of the body at Sea Ronnie's thirst for murder was out of control re found it increasingly difficult to resist Ron's violent demands in October 1967 matters came to a head a local villain Jack the Hat mcvi had upset the Twins and was unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time I didn't like the f m i want to give rid of it or he did everything uh he very uncu very uncr um he's loud and aggressive which I find is a vexation to the spirit and all indeed he just saying there was um stood for out despised whenever I see the film Mean Streets with daero playing the part of the guy with a hat caes all this mayem that's Jack the that character when I look at it you know completely untrustworthy he didn't care something about Jak he wasn't fighting of them and uh this is where he was an embarrassment to them the crazy tried to put him down oh he nothing like he's a Dr a CH a thief and he he was a bloody good thief I like Jack is a character and um he won a grass he could be very violent um but he's more more of a sort of Joker than a than a serious person you know Jack was a nu there's no doubt about it he was a pest and um I mean he everywhere he went there was a trail of Destruction behind him and and he was on those Dex Dr tablets you know those little pills that was about in those days and uh just another form of speed and he he was speeding every day morning noon and night you know I remember remember going around to his house once for some reason I don't know why and uh I sat there to have a cup of tea opposite the fireplace and I looked up over the top of the fireplace and there's all these bullet holes in the in the fire you know in the chimney breast and I said said his his wife and I said what's what's all that What's happen there he said oh that's when he gets drunk he he lets go at the chimley you know with have Che so uh we was in the car his arms the P there then time the East End and there was no sign of any edge of to no problem there was Ronnie Reggie we was all there even their parents were there so there was no thing and we left which other me and my brother and by chance we to go to the SE who should turn up jackly at H let's have a drink and all the rest of it now we're all Jack and so there's loads of people I get a phone call from my Dorman saying regg's in the fire could I go and see him he's got Ronnie Hart and Ronnie Bender with him so he said uh Jack's downstairs he said I'm going to kill him the next we I'm called upstairs in the office by Tony Barry and there was Reggie and Ronn up he just says uh bring we want to see J is he down I went yeah I bring him to a p but at no time did I know it was going to happen Tony lum's gone back to look after Jack the Hat reg's pulled a gun out in the office and said look after that he's give me give me the gun as he did that Ronnie Harts pulled out a great big dagger like a great big kitchen knife and said yeah hold that as well so I put them in the office door about 15 minutes later hearts come back she asked me for the knife then I gave him the knife said uh Reggie wants you to take the gun round to blond cars so I said well if you don't take it around there reg's going to come back and he's going to shoot jack in your Club well knocked on Blan Carol's door go down the basement I hand you ra the gun G back to the club Jack goes around to the party and that was the last we saw a jack I would never put myself in that position again it was wrong what happened to J yet I'm going to say that it wasn't very nice he didn't deserve that you know if they had that argue with don't involve no one else we go along to blond carols thinking there's going to be this party going to have a bit of a time now and get on to the West End we go down the steps go in the room Jack runs in where's the party Al Ronnie standing there and these Two Fellas dancing and all Ronnie did was bars past me hit him with a little glass along went [ __ ] off you can't have had enough of you bit of an argument starts between Reggie and Jack Reggie pulls a gun out I think he's going to frighten it you understand ghost click nothing works that was the first time I seen the gun that time I seen nothing and it didn't seem to me that they knew what was what they were doing I can't handle it I walk out the room and Connie White comes to me I'm I'm really upset I'm I'm torn between frustration anger when they said that Ronny was doing it was not Ronny Quay I have no need to protect Ronny cray from anything it was Ronny I him and he had him right beond he had his arms pin back I was always ready to do it I can't go to Jack's rescue if you want to know what I really felt I felt a coward it's hard I never see the knife I don't know where the knife come from it was over before it happened and Ronnie CRI out and said uh what's the matter with him Connie said well he's upset about all this when he said take him home it didn't seem seem real it didn't seem real and next we of course people are going everywhere what had happened between him leaving that Pub and meeting him at the r SE something happened in that short period of time been an hour had a bit an argument with wrong didn't I I conflict with wrong didn't I and it spur me on you know the guy was at the edge of a nervous breakdown his wife just killed herself he was was drunk he was drugged he was dominated by his homicidal twin these were all the things that was about they stood there and the words he says to me [ __ ] get rid of that fr the train that was it now I'm in the now I'm in the picture fully in the picture and it's not even my argument nothing to do with me if if it was something wrong with him yeah a lot of the people around I think were involved and they were drinking too much a lot of the other characters in the scene um who I won't name I think a lot of other people do it was a it was a mess something got out of hand it should have been control shouldn't have happened mcvety was stabbed to death the lambano brothers along with Ronnie Bender were left to clean up any trace of the murder I went upstairs and there were two little kids asleep long car Carol's children and I went in there gently took the Ida down off their bed not a duade had a kind of a cover there were blankets underneath it and I took it downstairs closed the door gently took it downstairs there he L on the floor now what do you do we rolled him over and underneath him was all this congealed the nearest I can think what it was like was if you went along to The Butchers and you bought bought some liver there was all this kind of Livery stuff a lot of it and all which was like congealed blood and we W in the night down and got him up the top of the stairs and got him the back of his mother put the body on the back seat of the car locked the doors then we went back into the house finished up doing what we had to do then came the time of uh a big question mark who was going to drive him away there was an argument that it was going to drive them away and rather start [ __ ] do it amongst all that Madness that night for somebody to say I'll drive that car over to South London you took you know took a lot of courage to get behind a wheet car they followed me and we just want to get rid of it no set plan to put it anywhere we lose him coming up out the tunnel and it's fairly ironic this that we we drive around for maybe about 20 minutes looking for Tony and we finally found him the car jack the hats car had run out of petrol right outside the church when they left it there they went back to told Ronnie that's when he he screamed his head off you know you put it right on Fred's doorstep which um it look makes me implicated me and then no that I'd had a r with Jack at the C know when he pulled a knife on a crew Pier some months earlier it just seemed that over South London there wasn't a lot of love loss between us that uh it could be left over there and there' been a killing in South London the police would be looking there rather than in the East End by coincident it could have been anywhere it could have been anywhere to me there another world there nothing do it was never done it was just one of them things we dropped Ronnie Bender off at uh over at the other side of the the Blackwood tunnel down in populara what we want to know that Ronnie went and found Charlie cry and told him he'd done it all we weren't mentioned instead of getting a pat on the head Charlie blows his nut because whatever he didn't want that body over the East End over the South London that put it firmly on somebody else's doorstep on Freddy Foreman's again Freddy Foreman was asked to dispose of the body Reggie had committed a very public murder it was cie and Har who came over to my bab knocked on the door and uh got me out of bed and said there's a car been damped Jack's body in it so I had to break into the car cuz the key the car had been locked and and um the keys had been thrown away and it was just uh breaking daylight with it rain a rain thankfully it was a rainy morning and I looked in the back and anyone walking by the car would see that that there's a body Ling on the back seat I mean it's only wrapped up and but the shape of the person was there and um there was all the old cleaners going to work that time in the morning but they had their heads down because of the rain you know so that was uh convenient switched lights on and my P was across the road tailing me off minding me off and he he I got it going I got the car going and uh the windscreen MERS would't work I well that's nice it was a wreck the car was a wreck so I've I've got I took a liberty with myself driving that away from there took him down down a new havenway to put him out the seat so he had burial SE and I saw the condition of him uh and there was none of this cutting throats and pinning him to the floor boards and things that they a couple of stab wounds in his back and and uh front you know it wasn't as bad as what um as gruesome as what they they portrayed and I fully expected it to be found the next day and when it never got found I it didn't happen you start to think that way be me oh was within within the week within that a few days couple of days that was that was history if you like you know I mean them sort of things uh they spread you know like wildi you know I me about a week later we had to meet they G out to suffer apparently and come back and we had to meet with him the C's arms and that's all it was said about it we asked why and he said he was just a [ __ ] nuisance on the morning of May 9th 1968 the cray Twins and other members of The Firm were arrested by nippa Reed and his team and charged with the murders of George Cornell Frank Mitchell and Jack the Hat mcvi the trial of the Old Bailey was presided over by Justice mford Stevenson and became one of the longest and most expensive criminal trials in English legal history when I started the investigation I'd become a superintendent and poster of the murder Squad I'd made it and then I went in to see the assistant commissioner and he said to me uh congratulations now Mr Reed he said I want you to do the craze I think we thought the best evidence probably was Cornell if we if we won that and then went on to mcvi the publicity that was associated with the first trial was such that it could be said we couldn't get a fair trial on the second one and that was the arrangement that we said well we'll join the two murders and we'll leave Mitchell out and then we'll have a separate trial for Mitchell and that's what we did it's quite obvious they should have been tried separately and not I I I move the court move Milford he should try them separately but I got him to stop the trial so that I could take the case to the court of appeal they likewise refused back room talk with the court of appeal judges clerks the government behind this W going to the court of appeal weren't going to interfere really it was the fact that that these two murders were alike so in so many ways because they've been committed uh by criminals uh who were who were conjoined not only because they were brothers and twins but because they were leading the same gang and that that there was the same uh motive or the or the you know there were the lack of motive uh that that impelled us to say well there is a relationship between the two that can be established and it was accepted I think they had a good chance of getting off if they've been tried separately and I not mean the two twins separately but two murders separately there were 10 men in the dock only two Ronnie cray and Ian Barry were on trial for the murder of George Cornell the remaining eight men sat in front of the jury awaiting their trial for the murder of Jack mcvi Ian Barry had to sit through the whole trial of the evidence against the gruesome evidence in the case of mcti it was nothing to do with him and similarly the other defendants like Bender whad the lambri onas had to sit through something that didn't concern them at all and of course in my view it was tainted and prejudicial I don't think it's happened since or would ever happen again well it it's one of the great Trials of the 20th century one of the great criminal trial a great show trial it was a mafia trial and they conducted like a mafia triy right from the very beginning when the police Convoy brought them into the O biley each of the jurors had a policeman to be responsible for him the Convoy coming up from I think it was Brixton prison every day was enormous Sirens every day it had been announced before the trial that it would take a different route each day for security it was really the police or the home office through the police trying to pretend to the jury that they were likely to be mobbed at any moment by this someone representative of this gang the mere fact that the leaders were all in jail and all on trial didn't mean there was wasn't a big gang threatening them all the time the security that was adopted in bringing them to court and taking them away was absolutely necessary we were talking about two people in a and a gang who committed committed brutal murders and there was no possibility that they could be allowed to uh be conveyed to court in any other way oh it's incredible s and mow bikes I mean there should start that we used to get to the Old Bailey in record time 60 minutes I think from brickton PR the Old Bailey they screaming sirens and motorbike out Riders the craves are coming have to be crows everywhere and holding back 30 or 40 people at the end of the road don't go down there it's too dangerous we're we're all in a van for back there I'm sure that the the jury and everybody around it was affected by the heavy security of course it tainted the jury I mean all the the the whole circus must have tainted them every single night the television had come on the the nose we'd be on the nose every single night now that I mean it was a trial by publicity today many judges would have reported newspapers and television for contempt The Craze in my view were killed by publicity they convicted before you even kick a ball game set a match we made our own minds we not going to be any part of them which we wasn't and there's no way on God's Earth that we're going to use their their barers and so we we picked our bar good and um you know we went our separate ways it was established early on by his Council that that he was going to give evidence and the substance of that would be that he was under duress from the cze during the whole of this exercise and that that took away from him his freedom of action well it was terrifying because um there was 10 of us in the dock and I was the only one there pleading for myself the rest were as a mob and um I had to be really on my toes going in and out in the dock every day I think really and truly there was so much evidence against them the twins should have put their hands up and said look we'll take it cuz they was apparently offered the deal that you take it like you put your hands up to it and all the rest can walk they expected them to go down with them that was a sort of sort of like a death wish they had you know we're going down you got to come down with us you know we all go together they that's not right they wasn't responsible for what the twins did when each of them was arrested I interviewed them and said look this is your one opportunity you will never get an another I'm telling you now that I'm going to charge the craze with murder and there may be other cases as well you've now got the opportunity if you choose to come on the side of Law and Order to make a statement to me and tell me all you know about the craze and this is the only opportunity you'll get all of a sudden you got their own cousin Ronnie Hart done the right grass in anyway he told him exactly what's happened and about half a dozen more of the so-called heavyweights on the firm have all grasped one another and grasped the twins well this was a disgusting trial in that sense that the number of people who were singing betraying I mean it was really grotesque and people who I'd met 6 months before as staunch friends buddies allies whatever they were of the craze members of The Firm which is it was a load of nonsense there was no really no such thing it was they were a Rabel but but um all these guys and suddenly there they were you know large as life saying how Dreadful The Craze have been I pleaded guilty because I had no chance the charge was harboring Frank Mitchell and I told never read what was all about and then he says can you tell me about the Cornell I said yeah and R said we got Scotch Jack is going to take Cornell's murder bronny art is going to take Jack the at and we want you to take Frank Mitchell so I thought about it just for a few seconds and I said no I know know of course you can't ask a man to do that what man what what samee man's going to say yeah I'll put my hands up to a murder and get a life sentence for something I've not committed I mean it's ridiculous to to even think it you know of course he had to roll over the Loyalty of all the other gang members is something that's quite remarkable they did not want to dissociate themselves with the craze and in that way appear unloyal because this was the structure this was the society we're loyal to the culture we're loyal to the friends that we've always known the people we drink with the people we eat with the people we piss and [ __ ] with you understand not the C I put them before my own family you know Chris had to go along with it whether he likes or not that was a chosen B went down that road and there was no going back they didn't have to go down they could have done what the Albert done and what I done they thought well twins will get us off of this they've got good lawyers good barristers plenty of money about plenty of money about for them God knows what they paid the rest they might to get legal aid the minist respons does not apply to someone that never did it it's as uh as one would say there's an alibi and a and self-defense you can't about if he said yes I did it then we look into what the state of his mind was at the time but he always denied he did any of the offenses Justice mford Stevenson was legendary for imposing long sentences with tur and often corrosive remarks he had acquired a reputation as Britain's toughest judge terrifying defendants and barristers alike I thought he was just the judge for the case I was very impressed by him because he he broke no interference he stood no nonsense and and uh he made sure that people knew that he was the judge it was his trial and things were going to go as he wanted it and and they did and I think the jury were very impressed by him the first day of the trial we go in there and the defendants come up into the dark and uh Mr Justice melfred Stevenson actually has prepared I think 6x6 cardwood cutouts and expects each defendant to wear one round the neck with a number I thought that was done purely to humiliate them and in my view very very very disgraceful he decided to put numbers on us with pink ribbons he said that they was confused but it was sitting in the doctor I you know they sat there looking at us long enough for 6 months they should uh you know they knew who we were right he wanted to call us number one and number two and number whatever you know I was the first one to say well don't think is we're in a cattle market here you know where get these off you're not putting that around my neck they arranged that all of them the coun threee should take them off and throw them down I remember them rehearsing this telling us they planning this and rehearsing it in the themselves 1 2 3 1 2 three from down and unfortunately for me my Council said Tony don't take yours off you know we're all like this going to throw them he said no no no no and he begged me not to part with mine and I had to sit there with mine while all the chaps started tearing theirs up I've been doing criminal law for nearly 40 years and I have never come across any case where any judg has behaved in that manner I'm sorry to say judges are supposed to be the pillars of society he was a high court judge and I think throughout the trial he treated everyone with contempt besides a prosecution uh but he was it was totally unfair oh yes he he tried to uh undermine our points and to underscore the points made for the prosecution there's no doubt of that but that was that's within the scope of a of a way would judge anyway if any good point was being said by defense who witness the judge would turn to the jury and literally smirk and turn his eyebrows up uh things like that don't go on transcript unfortunately and so it's very difficult loding Appeal on those grounds but it happened everyone saw it well you hear that members the jury you know nod and win as it were you see what they're after you see what the defense is after now that sort of comment the judge was continuously rude to John plas quite unnecessarily and uh I think it got to stage one day Ronnie jumped up in the dock and shouted the judge you leave him alone he's doing all right the thing that struck me most at the time which was quite odd was the class aspect I found something deeply unpleasant about it it was much more than just a murder trial it was as though the upper classes had rounded on these two up starts and thought they'd teach them a jolly good lesson which they did I think Reggie was aware A Ware of what was going to happen to him at the trial he certainly was he looked absolutely haunted he looked terrible but Ronnie was as as smug as a bug in a rug happy I think he loved all the eyes upon him yes and you would have thought and the way he came in each day came up the the stairs and and looked to the public Gallery I mean as though he was in the theater I think he enjoyed it he said something like you can understand that if I wasn't here now I'll be having tea with Judy Garland Ronnie saw me from the doc and she wrote me a little note which I still got cuz I thought it was so funny say Dear Miss Lethbridge you are more beautiful than ever when I get out of this I'm going to take you to the Moon many it's time during the trial Ronnie was asleep in the afternoons and he was asleep at the point that he he was snoring Reggie on the other hand was very intense and very U attentative to everything Reggie went into the books and said that this was a conspiracy between superintendent Reed and the Home Secretary to get the craze put away well even if that was a thought it wasn't it wasn't a way to introduce it he was always very particular throughout the case before and after and during the trial what the public thought of them he always was concerned what did they say about us outside Ronnie Craig couldn't make up his mind whether he was going to give evidence or not and eventually the judge got a bit upset and said now Mr plat Mills is your client going into the witness box or not and then Ronnie shouted I'm going into the witness box and then he went and of course he made an utter fool of himself yes Ronnie should never got in into the witness box um because he just couldn't control his temper uh you know in cross-examination about anything he would flare up you know he cut his own throat really King Jones said to him weren't you known as the colonel isn't that uh an a title that you've adopted for yourself he said that may may not be he said but you're a fat slob Jones stood there and just let it sink in and let it sink in with the jwy I'm sure because Bonnie was screaming and excited and just showing himself to be the sort of Man Who Would on a whim shoot or knife somebody uh and I'm sure Jones enjoyed every bit of being called a slob at that moment Ronnie was in the Box mord said to him Mr cray I think you've only said two things in the whole of your evidence the the first is the prosecutor is a big fat lob and the next I'm preed against you cuz I I certainly am Mr Foreman I want you to ask me simply by saying yes or no have you all reached a verdict in the case of Ronald cray in in in the first indictment yes have you reached second indictment yes and then uh went back to say and then how do you find Roger and he said guilty and then he said guilty and I was looking down like this and I couldn't look up my eyes were full of tears it it was a a bit of a you know all the work that we' done was justified Ronnie gray 30 years Ian 20 years Ronnie Bender 20 years Reggie cray 30 years Charles cray 10 years Tony Barry acquitted being under duress Chris lambano 15 years Freddy Foreman 10 years Tony lambano 15 years Connie Whitehead 7 years well the judge was uh so carried away by the duty he felt he had to put down the whole tribe that he dished out to the Lesser members as well I never thought that Milford would swing with such violence I wasn't surprised at the sentences in any way a gang of people that had ruled the East End of London by a regime of Terror and fear had killed people coldly analytically motiveless uh in full view of of other people simply because they wanted to exercise their Authority as gang leaders Reggie would have been in a place like this this is a a cell it's not wired and it's not long and you never felt the C until you've been in somewhere like this he might have had a few phot R off and pictures on the wall bed there maybe he been allowed a bed cover and a radio and that would have been his total existence d say that's how you live it that's how you live it you survive it you come out of it but you can never forget it I've seen a man killed over a small transistor radio man walked by me and said good morning Chris I walked in a cell and murdered a man with a homade knife in Cold Blood over a small transistor radio what price life he had his fights with the screws when they first first went away he tried to he tried to kill himself he no one said about that but he tried to kill himself because he was sick of the life he had in there yeah I C me missed in Long L prison on two occasions one one twice in parus I think it was a dear depression at time um I think I was on some medication and his side effects I believe they done it side effects of the medication him I don't think he meant to to himself I think it was a cry a terrible cry helped me a man who does um more than 10 years is changed for the worse forever I believe an ordinary man of ordinary capacity I think is ruined by it you've got to have some spark of Genius or maybe a political ideal if Reggie CRA expressed uh complete remorse some years ago when his 30 years was up then the probability is that he would have been allowed out I think it was everything the books and the films and everything that had gone around and I do believe that when they sentenced re and Ron and they sent them to prison and they locked the doors and they believe that they had well and truly thrown away the key and that the next step would simply be obscurity and he felt the exact opposite happened and the medor interest grew and the public Fascination grew and the home office found itself 27 years down the road with two men who who had become incredibly famous the idea of somebody who's in prison becoming the subject matter of a film is deeply unpopular I think it's felt that somehow even if it isn't financially they will benefit and benefit by the fame if that is a benefit by the notoriety the last thing that anybody in prison needs is a high profile and they were to a certain extent author of their own misfortunes among his writings were certain Revelations that were not popular with other members of The Firm who were still serving long prison sentences four or five later he admits it I what could was to me or any other defend any of us nothing yeah I was just illusion of it big sick about it there I am sitting the Nick for something that he couldn't admit before and a couple of years later he comes out of it did we all go down for him to write a book Ronnie Craig wanted a traditional Easter and funeral and his family made sure his wishes were respected down to the Last Detail among the masses of flowers was a tribute from Reggie which read to the other half of me and then came the message from rej my brother Ron is now free and at peace Ron had great humor a vicious temper was kind and generous he did it all his way but above all he was a man and that's how I'll always remember my twin brother Ron God bless re cray there's rumors I I think ni read be to tell you answer to that I would imagine that would be Teddy Smith Teddy Smith was uh a homosexual friend of of rones and Smith suddenly disappeared he showed up in the Regency drunk as a skunk shouting about Mitchell we got him in the car taking him around to the twins house and he said stop the car when to want to take a leak so he goes behind house or something that's it never see him again you know he's a frequenter he was there every day and then suddenly he just went off and we made all kinds of inquiries and people said well don't know what happened to Smithy the vice the twins Ed Reggie and know at times was boys that was their Vice of course we knew Ronnie was you know fancied boys we knew that from the days of of of the early days when he when he told Charlie he said with a big Qui on his child he said you might as well know it he said I'm buying bisexual with Charlie was dumb struck you know he looked at him me went what I can't believe you mate he said well you like men as well as women he went yes he said he said if Mother can cope with what she knows so can you and he walked away and that was the statement when he first admitted openly I'm I'm bisexual and I'm proud of it so I don't care who knows and Reggie was also bisexual being gay then wasn't like being gay now it was s all have to be under the carpet type of thing we was at a party One Night in E then and I went looking for my mate AR Abrahams and uh he was with this girl anyway I went in the wrong room I open the wrong door and there was regie giving the young boy one and I F God and he come out go to me read you outside he said you're dead he said don't you you fing word of this he said he you're dead I think they they being the the Macho image they had they would like to me they wouldn't show that side of their nature or their character they didn't want me to see that I never suspected Reggie I thought Reggie's always been a straight guy you know I think he f it in the beginning I think I think um it came out when he was in prison more than anything else he certainly liked the company of of women and and um he was Deon there and and I'm sure there's quite a few young ladies who've been to bed with Reggie I can guarantee that you used to train a lot in the prison did you stop that regime as a result of feeling ill yes I stopped stopped trying out um when I got to whan um I still used to go to the gym but um I I lost the incentive I had um not because I didn't want to do it but because of the St problems so I still Tred over that period of 3 years but um it started to decrease then I still think it's the best thing to do in in prison over that period of years did you feel you had something seriously wrong with you I definitely did and I told him this I definitely did I knew say seriously WR it couldn't be otherwise I was going to the toilet so many times a day um physically impossible almost and when I told this I didn't seem to didn't have any bearing on it I say to him you don't look too clever but I shouldn't have said that to him I should have said oh you're looking all right you know what I mean but you don't you don't think you just say what's on your mind and he didn't look clever at all he looked very ill and he was he had cancer do you feel that death is the only way they would release you do you feel they wanted to keep you in there forever I think the way I was released was unsatisfactory to him but it's helped to resolve a very bad embarrassment on their part so that's the best time they got a good deal with they got a good deal they found a way out but still in front of them he don't share this time because I had a wife and a young child and I sunborn was only M I was never to see him until he was 16 years of age when I come out I had a daughter was nearly six and was 22 near 23 when I come out to Nick the marriage was over my father became an old man never knowing really what what what what had happened you know and the the tragedy and high there left for all their families what could come out where was a glamor and all that there's no glamorous about it we lost everything really we've given everything up for them our future Our lives our club got ruined um after the trial with a matter of about months they the police revoked the license and put us out of business it's like the association the smear did rub it rubbed off on us you understand 1970 that was it was all over it's really a cogni tragedy it's a very very sad god- awful story The IDE of it actually encouraging anyone or anyone wanted to be like The Craze is another part of the sadness because it's something sad in our own society which makes Heroes of people like this what better message can you put out to the to the W be gangsters of today or the criminals coming up the these are the heroes you look up to to the youth and say well that what look what happened to them the three of them have all died in prison I find I to believe they're all gone sit here like but they it seems to me that that's the way it act to be one or the other it was a warning that if you do this or you do that this is what can happen to you I think never that was the message left here over the years prison life is a waste of time I get that from all over the country he this gets right to me and um I advise him it's very difficult when kids got nothing to do and they got no money and they got all kinds of social problems there so it's easy to say than it is done but speaking speaking from the art to them I i' like to see them stay in prison whe they can't do so I don't know some will make it and some [Music] won't thank you for watching if you enjoyed the video please join our Facebook group it's called cra's crime Lords of London we're a friendly moderated group with over 1,000 cray and other celebrated gangster videos available for view there's also thousands of images in the photos sections the link for the group is in the YouTube description section I hope we see you there soon

Channel: The Krays Crime Lords Of London Facebook Channel

Views: 107,770

Keywords: The, Kray, Twins, Ronnie, Ron, Reggie, Reg, Firm, London, Gangsters, Krays

Id: 3H-RXWnRgpk

Length: 99min 40sec (5980 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 31 2024