The War On The Young with professor Scott Galloway | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

to be rich in America is to be loved full stop it's a violent rapacious place if you don't have money it's a loving generous place if you do have money once you hit your number there's no reason to be a hoarder because this is what makes you happy spend it I spend so much [ __ ] money and it's amazing and then you know what I do I give it away and so what I would say to anyone else who has a lot of money why do you need to be a billionaire it's not going to get you anything here's what you do you do amazing things with friends and family you take care of your parents you fly your friends to ask them to hang out with you and then anything above that you give it away and there's so many amazing causes and people and overpay the people who work with you throw money around like you're a [ __ ] gangster in the 50s diagnosed with ass cancer just live it up and you know what you're going to love life don't do it because you're noble don't do it because you're praying to some God or whatever it is I can tell you firsthand it feels amazing thanks for joining it's really good to see you always was good to see you um and congratulations on on the Ted Talk the new book lots of busy things happening thanks so um when you got invited to do the Ted Talk did they ask you to do a particular subject or did they did you just did you say to them this is what I want to talk about no I I had lunch with Chris Anderson who I've known for 20 30 years in London and he said we're thinking about having you attest as if I'd you know been crowned he didn't he didn't commit to giving me a speaking site he said we're thinking about it and I said well first off thanks that's that's exciting and he said what what's your vision uh for a talk he said if you were to do a talk what would it be he didn't even offer me the slly yet and I said I think that the thing that people aren't talking enough about is I believe that almost every economic policy is nothing but a thinly veiled transfer of wealth M from the entrance to the incumbents and more Loosely from young to old and he said okay so how would you brand it I'm like well thinking about this I think there's a war on the young he said that's the talk and we want to have you and I wasn't sold myself cuz Vancouver from London is a real Hall and I I'm trying to be more someone said I love the saying be generous with everything except your time I'm pretty cheap with my time now and anyway so I did it and then I thought this is something I feel passionate about so I I rallied the team and I get a lot of nice feedback around wow that's so much data it's you know greatness is in the agency of others I probably spent eight hours on that talk but I bet there was 800 hours that went into it and so of my team immediately started pulling together data and you know it's 110 slides it was um chilling I would say is a good word um how Stark your conclusions were your your your insights were um and I think it really does point to sort of a Brokenness of capitalism where and you know better than I do about this stuff but my understanding is that the original concept of the stock market mhm was that the average working person could share in the wealth of a Nation yeah um and what's happened in the past 30 40 years is that the middle class is leaving the stock market and it's become the playground literally of the top 1% or maybe slightly bigger um at least at least it's that small percentage that are benefiting most at the expense and then we see and you know I rail against this kind of stuff you know where uh where compan announced Mass layoffs because they missed their projections they're profitable just not as profitable as they promised the street and so you get to lose your job and this all benefits the stock market you know when companies announce layoffs the price of their Equity goes up announce R&D your Equity goes down yeah to call it the war in the young um I think speaks to this very large and growing populist movement that we're seeing both the United States and around the world yeah so I one of my intellectual Role Models is Peter D or The Economist he said that the purpose of an economy is to create a middle class and I think the greatest innovation in history is not the iPhone or the semiconductor or the printing press I think it's the middle class this idea that the largest segment of your population gets to register the prosperity of an economy and they fight your Wars they pay the majority of your taxes they're responsible for the majority of the framework for real future Innovations and they create sort of a neoliberal society that decides you know we'd like to share some of our privilege and start affording rights to other people I think that's the greatest innovation in history but it's not with the incumbents and sometimes the right the far right will tell you is that it's a natural occurring organism it's not capitalism that's unfettered results in a small group of very talented people who aggregate um incredible capital and then have access to cheaper capital and can kind of run away with the game show and then they weaponize government I mean this is what Central America is a group of talented people figure out a way to license Unilever or a BNB Brands they get more Capital they support the next president they get regulatory capture and they end up with so much so much of the economy that the bottom 99% says the easiest way for us to double our wealth is to kill these people and start over again and then another group of people emerges is the 1% if capitalism doesn't have a pay it forward reinvestment in the middle class it does collapse on itself it's also a bit of a Zeitgeist thing and that is I've been watching a lot of the D-Day I'm obsessed with World War III the D-Day memorials and I was I was wondering myself like if I were called I like to think if I were called I would have gone but I also believe that if I'm merely honest with myself if my sons were called I think I would use my influence and wealth to get them out of it and I think Americans have over the last 50 years slowly but surely and I don't know what I don't know what are the inter like Dynamics but I think we've become inherently a little bit more focused on me and we see so many people this is kind of your bwick when you have a candidate for president who's just so nakedly self-serving and people find that admirable when you have Tech billionaires that seem pretty focused on getting from 1 billion to 100 billion even if it involves depressing teenage girls and they win and and we love them then it creates this incentive system in the US where people decide it really is about me it's no longer about reinvesting in the in the middle class and as a result you have the incumbents 25 wealthiest people in America pay an average tax rate of 8% and we have a series of elected officials who are in a system where they need to get money to be reelected the people with money are the incumbents and what do you know old people keep voting in older people who keep voting themselves more money and now we're at 40% of all government spending is on people over the age of 65 it's about to go over 50% meaning we're not going to be able to make the forward leaning investments in technology and education that quite frankly pay off and bring more people in the middle class and then the older people who tend to be the executives they're the ones in charge just by virtue of time and age um then they complain about the lack of loyalty from The Young employees failing to recognize that they're the ones that set the rules they demand loyalty they demand you kiss the ring but they offer nothing in return and then they're surprised at this Young Generation that is doubling down on the the rules that the older generation set which is me before we you know I I think you're 100% right which is especially in United States over indexed on rugged individualism you know the malro man works too well and we heroized CEOs CEOs became Heroes rather than the teams and I think when we talk about you know would you go to war or would you allow your kids to go to war the times that we live in are the context and you're saying I would you know I would use my wealth and influence to get them out of it but if it was 1941 I'm not so sure that would be true you know at least in the United States you know there were more suicides from Young men who didn't get called than ones who did that's interesting which is which is an astonishing thing and if you think about the collective desire to to help right so people who could went to war in some way shape or form they put on a uniform to support in some way shape or form those who didn't fight bought war bonds to support the effort and those who couldn't afford war bonds planted planted planted War Gardens yeah they they just did something even if it was symbolic to demonstrate that we are one I think one of the so the capitalism collapsing on itself is a bit of a far-left narrative let me give some not nod to the far right I think that the fact that Americans haven't been attacked on our homeland other than 9/11 we're energy independent we're food independent um friendly Canada to the north harmless Mexico to the South I don't think a lot of people in America realize there's a large swath of people globally who the moment they feel like they can take with Force our Netflix and our Espress away from us we'll do it in a second and that I don't think they really understand or nod to the amount of sacrifice that was made by previous generations to and also very brave young men and women who are in the uniform right now and some of our people who work in government and our security apparatus I don't think Americans have the same level of fidelity or appreciation for just how hard it is how much energy how much money it takes how much sacrifice it takes to get to the levels of freedom and prosperity that America enjoys I feel like America has become entitled my generation on down because every time we've been asked to sacrifice while we've been alive it's been for a failed War Iraq was stupid going into southeast Asia supporting the French colonization or recolonization after World War II ended up being a disaster so I think people just take for granted that oh we're special all of this Prosperity doesn't require sacrifice it requires a ruthless Devotion to Uber C capitalism and doing what you can to get to a certain point now to your point around the CEOs believing the young people are entitled yeah it's just such [ __ ] yeah when you look at the level of compensation of CEOs relative to young people it's gone from 30 to 300 oh wait let me get this David zasloff you cut the stock in half you're firing people like crazy but you walk away with a quarter of a billion dollars and oh you're going to make sure that you give enough money to Senators like Kristen Cinema you give her $2 million and she makes sure as the Swing Vote that the tax credit for carried interest for private Equity Funds maintain a12 billion tax cut the most disappointing thing about our government right now it's not that they're [ __ ] they've been [ __ ] for a long time it's that what incredibly cheap [ __ ] they are and the greatest return on investment in our economy is for an organization a special interest group a lobbying group for the rich or for corporations to go spread a little bit of money around and find out oh that we need to protect the the shoe market in case there a war and we need boots or we need this tax cut for people in the real estate industry and it does feel a little bit like it's collapsing on itself that if we don't as Citizens and elect people who are a little bit more long-term thinking and recognize there's just no [ __ ] reason why people who make their money selling stocks should have a lower tax rate than people uh sweeping up the floor at the New York Stock Exchange when did Capital become the capital that Capital makes become more noble than the capital that sweat makes shouldn't it be flipped even Ronald Reagan said this is [ __ ] and he had one tax rate so effectively every big tax thing that goes through every big expenditure to name it is really about a transfer of wealth $30 billion child tax credit who does that benefit not only the children but young mothers right that gets stripped out of the infrastructure Bill we can't do it it's too expensive $30 billion we need to be responsible but the $140 billion cost of living adjustment in Social Security each year another 140 billion flies right through no discussion of means testing you and I should never have social security no way let's call it senior security it's not Social Security it's and it's called a tax it's not a pension fund all this [ __ ] well I pay it into it it's a tax it's meant to be redistributed to people who need it cap capital gains tax deduction mortgage tax deduction who owns homes people our age who rents the younger people here it is everything we do is how do we butress the wealth of incumbents and old people yeah and make it more expensive for young people their housing's gone up 4X right education's gone up 2x on inflation adjusted basis their income's gone down so they make less money everything they need to get ahead or start saving or form a family's gotten more expensive and yet they look left and right and up and they see people making tons of money and 210 times a day on their phone people are vomiting their wealth a lot of times faux wealth yeah and what do you know they feel shitty what a shocker so how do we fix it short short of short of Revolution short of short of Revolution because I mean you and I you know better than most that the way revolutions happen Y is when the Delta between the halves and the have notss gets too wide 100% short of Revolution right and some may argue it's already begun yeah how how do we how do we fix it look the good news the good news about income inequality is when it gets to a certain level it always self-corrects the bad news as the means of self-correction are usually War famine or revolution yeah I would argue that a lot of the social uh up Uprising in the US is more what I'll call a series of mini revolutions I don't think what's going on on campuses in the United States is about the Middle East I think it's about America I it's it's anti-establishment this level of income inequality and dissatisfaction is incendiary poured on every small fire it turns a dumpster fire into a nuclear mushroom cloud there's just rage everywhere now what do we do I think the good news is we don't even need to come up with Creative Solutions we just need to go back to the future we need a much more progressive tax rate and I'm not talking about the super owners if you make a lot of money on current income and you live in a blue State you're probably paying 50 52% the super earners are actually paying too much but once you make the jump to light speed and you say Get Lucky like me and you sell a company for nine figures and you can take all of that money and put into income earning assets that appreciate and value you become a super owner and your tax rate plummets and I'm very transparent about my wealth I think that this gestal or this Vibe you're not supposed to talk about money is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to keep poor people poor because rich people talk about money all the time the guy who runs the company and it's almost always the guy knows what everybody makes so asymmetry of information benefits the incumbent so what what we have is a series of policies that again don't make any sense for young people so more progressive tax structure on the super owners eliminate capital gain seduction everybody pays One Rate have an alternative minimum tax ta for corporations and very wealthy people right now corporations are paying the lowest tax rate they've paid since 1939 it used to be 2 and a half% of GDP now it's 1% there are five companies Nike FedEx a bunch of them that paid Amazon that paid no taxes there's the tax code has gone from 400 pages to 4,000 right and all of it is a bunch of loopholes meant to give money back to Big organizations Apple's the most profitable company in history they incorporate in Ireland such that they can increase their taxes or increase their pre tax tax revenue in a low tax domain and decrease their revenue in a high tax domain that is nothing but sheer tax avoidance we need Alternative Minimum Tax on the super wealth in corporations and you could actually lower taxes across the super earners and youth so redo our tax policy to be more quote unquote just Equitable restore a progressive tax rate two more opportunities for young people specifically broader Freshman Class college is still the be best onramp into the middle or upper income classes Harvard has grown its endowment 40-fold 4,000% but it's increased its freshman class size 4% it lets in about the same number of people that a good Starbucks does if you aren't growing your freshman class size faster than population growth you should lose your taxfree status because you're now a hedge fund offering classes you're not public servants and in addition uh instead of bailing out one-third of kids who got to go to college with student loan bailouts on the backs of the two-thirds that didn't we should take some of that money and give it to our great public universities in exchange for three things one they increase their freshman class size 6% with adapt use of Technology they could easily do there's no one there at night there's no one there during the Summers I work at one of these places we could easily expand our freshman class size too reduce costs 2% a year we could do that with scale and more students and Technology a third of my faculty and they're some of the best in the world should be put on an ice flow they're not only not adding any value because they're not any adding any value they get angry and disruptive and get in the way of of progress that is not nothing but student debt layered on young people ethics leadership sustainability it's all [ __ ] and self-aggrandisement from a group of people who decided they're no longer centers of excellence they're social Engineers I mean just think about how [ __ ] arrogant that is We're Not Elected by anyone but we've decided we should train a new generation of Youth around what they should care about and what social policy should be here's an idea give them the skills they can go make a bunch of money and take care of their families and then pay taxes to a group of people who are elected who then decide our social priorities and then finally 20% of all degrees should be vocational certifications non-traditional four years degree two-year in specialty nursing one year in construction of nuclear power plants 18-month vocational program and the installation of energy efficient HVAC there are a ton of Main Street economy jobs that pay six figures plus that we're not training kids for here in the UK 11% of LinkedIn profile say Apprentice It's 3% in the US more freshman seats lower cost for college and we need a federal a federal law that say if you get in the way of housing permits you're liable if you found that these this obstruction wasn't ethical uh we need a million and a half more housing permits per year because this is what has happening once you and I own a home we start showing up to the local review board and we get very concerned about traffic and we find ways to make sure that no housing permits are ever issued such that people who work with you can't afford a goddamn home preo 2019 homes were 290,000 they're 420,000 a day and with the acceleration in interest rates because we keep spending money on their godamn credit card mortgages have gone from $1,100 to 2,300 it used to be 2/3 of Americans could afford a home now it's 1/3 so they can't afford a home they're getting tax like [ __ ] crazy and everyone above them is making a [ __ ] ton of money I'm in the club with champagne and cocaine and the closest the next generation gets to the club is they can throw me their credit card so I can run it up that is literally what is happening we're going to have cheap debt long enough we're going to be able to pay our debt while I'm still alive but who's really going to get fu is the kids who are going to have to pay it back where I keep parting on their debt okay so that was a lot no it's um the thing that I find um nobody can listen to this podcast at any faster than actual speed or slower I speak fast it's just too fast it's there was the wrong morning to do math do remember do you remember airplanes like oh I picked the wrong week to quit drinking that's right to quit GL to quit glue yeah to quit sniffing glue um okay so let's let's back up a second here sure I subscribe yeah hookline Sinker right I'm in yeah but who will voluntarily make those changes you just made the case that the that the Habs the status quo defend the status quo because they benefit from the status quo obviously and so there's no incentive at all in business or in politics to change the tax code and make the changes that you're talking about there's no incent in a university system University presidents aren't hired to make great universities they're hired to raise money and so there's no incentive whatsoever to make the changes that are common sense and will work that you're advocating yep so short of Revolution how do we make those changes well I I don't think it's that bad so I'll use myself as an example because what you're talking about people aren't going to disarm unilaterally I've been very open I started my last speech on saying I've been open about my finances my average tax rate the last 10 years has been 17% because some of the brightest people I work with help me minimize my tax rate probably the brightest woman in my universe is a woman who works at a big law firm and every year she looks at my taxes and she figures out all kinds of legal ways for me to reduce my tax rate and I have the ability to do that now that I'm a super owner I've gone from Super owner to Super owner what we need is a group of people and we've done this in the past that say we're going to elect people no one's going to disarm unilaterally you're going to try and pay the minimum amount of tax all right that's your job it's like being a prison of War your job is to Escape right so I'm not suggesting anyone's going to say well I'm just going to write a bigger check to the government this year that's not going to happen but what we have done and a lot of people still do is I will vote for people you I'll vote for senators clob Bashar and Senators Bennett and I'll try and get Biden reelected because I think that those people do think somewhat long term and will try will try to impose some of the things we're talking about I hold on let me interrupt here sure okay you don't buy it no okay go on um so when you have wealth yep you get to say things like I'll vote for the guy that will make the long-term decisions yep when you are on the receiving end of everything you've talked about yep long-term ain't a thing mhm solving the problem finding a job reducing my tax rate managing inflation MH affording milk mhm getting my kid in into school yep the um not having to have two jobs to make a single job wage y um immediate relief is the thing I vote for and the promises that some politicians can make about the the immediate relief that they will offer is unbelievably appealing whether it's true or not and you said it yourself that's the voting population the wealthy try to they use their money to get what they want but the voting population the majority gets to actually vote right but I do think so first off to your point the the culprits are the elected officials but the culpable are voters if young people want a greater transfer want to restore opportunity to young people they need to start voting instead of 40% of them voting like seniors they need to be 60% yeah in addition I think there's an interesting idea that you should be able to vote for your kids we spend less money per capita on children than any developed nation and I think one quick fix for that would be to give people who are the guardians of kids uh more votes so you're a single mom with three kids you get four votes I realize that's unlikely to happen but that would immediately overnight reshift our priorities so I do think there are things absolutely we can do and I do think people do vote for people who they believe are I look I hate to use the war term but it's leadership it's someone saying no one should have to go bankrupt after they find out their wife has lung cancer so Obamacare expensive we all pay 2% or 2.8% a year in taxes that we'd rather not pay if you're healthy but Americans are saying look if if a leader comes along and convinces me this is a reinvestment in the middle class and a reinvestment in America I will vote for that person if they can articulate with passion and Leadership I think that that opportunity is still there you're touching right on something that um that that's the thing that I'm sort of lamenting these days and and it is the leadership it is that leadership compan which is it seems that there's been a total loss of idealism I I agree and you go back to Ronald Reagan or or John F Kennedy so I don't care what your politics are they literally use the terms peace on Earth world peace in their inaugurations as a driving motivation which is an incredibly appealing thing to bring people together and be willing to Bear any burden and pay any price for the greater good and talking about world peace now literally in this artificial context sounds completely cheesy to say the world I'm doing it for world peace and I don't see it in politics I don't even see it in business the the the total loss of idealism and I think idealism is the thing because idealism exists on a level above everything we're talking about yep it is the thing that we can actually see the forest for the trees and say well I am willing to give up some because I believe in that and some could be money it could be an effort it could be some sort of sacrifice and so I wonder if this is solvable with good leadership now I'm also not so fool hearty to think oh well you just make leaders M you know uh I actually think that um the single worst thing that happened to the United States was the uh the bankruptcy of the Soviet Union MH because it's very easy the problem with vision and idealism is it's ethereal you know it's literally in someone's imagination they give an rousing speech and like o that sounds amazing um um and the great thing about a common enemy is they're tangible and we can see it that's right and it's easy to know what we stand for when I can literally see what I'm against what's the thing that is preventing me from getting this thing and it's and I think there's this there's a very important Nuance here which is the enemy isn't the thing having an enemy is easy and we we've seen it throughout every dictatorship they find an enemy and they that that's how they come to power what they're missing is the idealism the enemy isn't the enemy so much it is is the thing getting in the way of us getting to the thing that we want Y which is really important that there's something on the other side of that of that and I blame every president by the way this is not a republican Democrat thing the decline of idealism from every president who has served since the since the fall of the Soviet Union has slowly chipped away at American idealism and that is gone that's a lot there so like I and by the way we know we know the numbers which is we know that belief and Trust in politicians is an all-time low we know that belief and Trust in there's no social leaders either where the Martin Luther King Jr like they're they're not there right the ones that are bringing people together rather than breaking us apart they're not there but trust in corporate corporations weirdly yeah is quite high right now and so I'm just going to go where the market takes me and if that's where the trust is then I'm looking to the corporate leaders to start to demonstrate the restoration of idealism and if they can start to make the changes that you and I are advocating at a national level which by the way is not going to happen like that doesn't MH but if if they can start making it at a at a corporate level small mid midsize companies small companies even large companies start making the kinds of social changes that you and I are talking about there it'll filter out and eventually roll over to politics the part where you lost me is that we keep hoping that the better angels of CEOs are going to show up and then if we paint iPods red that corporations and capitalism will save us and I find that this entire notion of of corporate social responsibility is just such unfettered [ __ ] I but wa wait I don't think of that's not what I'm talking about but let me let me give me some running here okay and that is we keep hoping that we're that Cheryl Samberg actually does care about our children and that Sam Alman and his hush tones and concerns about AI cares about anything but making money corporations are so great in making money and we need that so we can generate tax revenue and create Economic Security for people they're so good at making money they shouldn't be trusted to do anything else what we should do is have a group of people who sit on top of that tax revenue that hopefully grows with the full body contact violence of capitalism which is a wonderful thing that tax them at a fair rate and then redeploy that Capital based on a series of policies that we all buy into I think that people generally do believe that we have a problem when one in five households in the most prosperous Society in nation with children are food insecure that they would like to see those problems solved and if someone comes in with an idea and leaders ership and says okay this is how we do it equitably this is the sacrifice it's going to require are we going to cut spending or increase taxes the answer is yes I do think there's opportunity right now for someone to come in and say it's time to start paying it forward it's time to return to our American rots we have sacrificed all the way through we've been harvesting these sacrifices uh it's time to step into the void and pay it a little bit forward I do think there's an opportunity here I'm more optimistic americ if you think about it are an incredibly generous people and what's happened is that I think because of uh no term limits because of the Aging of our po of our elected elected representatives Nancy Pelosi which she had a first child Fidel had just um declared martial law in Cuba only a third of houses had color television so does she really understand the challenges facing a single mother I think we need much much younger electorate but I think that I think Americans as a whole are are ready to sacrifice as long as they feel they're part of a collective sacrifice and there really hasn't been a voice to kind of bring people together and say unions you're going to hate me old people you're going to hate me corporations Jesus Christ you're going to hate me young people all right I see the problem here I'm going to look something I've struggled with my whole life is the difference between being right and being effective and as I talk about these things and try and fo in and catalyze social change I'm trying to be more effective so for example I'm trying to um appeal to people's sense of reward and masculinity for example and this is virtue signaling but I I actually think virtue sing is fine uh I give away a lot of money and I don't do it because I'm a good person I don't think I think I do it because I'm philanthropic it makes me feel really masculine I brag about it it makes me feel strong I believe it's bringing together my skills and my strengths to protect and provide for others and it makes me feel like a [ __ ] baller so I'm like why above a certain level and Daniel con one of my intellectual Role Models has this thing he proved that the difference between the difference between making $30,000 and $80,000 a year or 30 and 50 is huge the difference between making one and three million a year no incremental happiness you're no happier so wouldn't that argue for a really progressive tax structure once above say one or call it even 10 million you're going to get any happier between 10 and 20 million a year you're not I have sence that shows it but if you can take that money and then make a bunch of households much happier taking from 30 to 5050 let's elect people who are going to have the backbone to say nor to corporations and special interest group and impose a truly progressive tax structure and I think that argument that argument will resonate with a lot of Voters I do think that D and democracy can still work here and I think that we are looking for a voice and I think they're out there to say look it is time to nod our head to all the people who' have made a ton of sacrifice such that we could reap the fruit we're reaping I think it's time I think America's ready for it all right you and I are giving each other a lot of dense sandwiches to unpack so the capitalism that you're defending yep or at least pointing to yep that Sam ultman who comes in with these idealistic Notions and all of a sudden they disappear when money gets involved yeah um is a relatively modern conception of capitalism it's it's it's Milton Freedman capitalism right um popularized by [ __ ] like Jack Welch right um but it's not Adam Smith capitalism it's not the capitalism that made America great yeah it's not true capitalism it's not true capitalism and so we've conflated right the bastardized version of capitalism we have now with the capitalism that has has that's right contributed to the world for over 200 years and my fear is that we're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because because we've so conflated them and I think there should be a return to a kind of capitalism where there is Mo I'll use the term moral obligation that's right that we have moral obligation so so just out of curiosity I did this just the other day just out of curiosity I was curious why rich people gave to taxes in like the Victorian era right so 19th century because the carnegies The Rockefellers and and and and the British wealthy they gave [ __ ] tons to charity and they built universities and hospitals and all the all these wonderful institutions that exist today and I was curious if they did it for tax incentive and neither Britain nor in the US was there any tax incentive a total of zero tax benefits to give to charity and then I went and read some of what they wrote and what they said and they all Ed the same terms they all use the same term which is moral obligation that we have a moral obligation to give back to the society that gave to us even if you could make the argument they were [ __ ] and not nice people they believed in this moral obligation and that moral obligation came from God in other words God was the thing that was bigger than all of them they were God-fearing uh or not um I'm not looking for religion to solve the problem here but it's idealism it's the thing that's bigger than all of us the fear of an existential of something existential a comy of man a comy of man yeah somehow restores moral obligation and I don't think any CEO feels a moral obligation mhm they talk about fiduciary duty which by the way is lower than a moral obligation MH they're talk about their fiduciary responsibility um and I think that's why business has become so myopic to your point which is the only thing they're good at is making money but I would like them to have a moral obligation and be good at making money see I think you're talking your own book because you this is how you make your living is you go into corporations and you teach them or you try and convince them to be more moral and I think that that is I think that is a noble thing that we need more of I don't think it's the right strategy go on tell more because they're always going to figure out ways why how they get to their next [ __ ] Gulf Stream and they'll wave their hands I go to to these meetings I'm in these boardrooms and they all talk a big [ __ ] game about social responsibility and then they will incrementally do whatever is required whether it's put out media the results in more teenage girls self-cutting radicalizing young men such that they can while they finally are in that CEO seat that they work so hard to get to bank enough money that they have influence and have a much broader selection set of much hotter mates than they deserve those things are irresistible that's what I want but those things are irresistible in different times those those things are not a mod conception those things have existed literally ifting for more than if you're waiting for the better angels of CEOs to show up don't hold your breath what we need is a group of people who convince enough people to vote for them to say okay but where are the candidates so I like you and I are stuck in the same place right which is but you think CEOs are going to fix this no I I think the CEOs at least at least there's an opportunity in business that I think is is uh is more uh more like to happen in the short term than the opportunity in politics we need long-term Solutions let me give you one very tactical idea if we could go back in time would we put a pretty immense tax on all carbon capture all carbon emission and all oil pulled out of the ground we knew that pulling fossil fuels out of the ground and then arbing it into a substance to create economic value is going to have a lot of externalities so if we'd said for every barrel we pull out we're putting a $10 tax on it and we're going to start investing in forward leaning Investments around the government job training and and Renewables this is we're at that moment the new energy seven of the 10 most valuable firms in 1980 were energy companies seven of the 10 most valuable firms in 2024 are tech companies but they're not they're energy firms they're all becoming the same firm offering something called compute instead of powering our cars and our factories they powering our phones and our llms requ right now a query on chat gbt takes 10 times the energy of Google right now is this an opportunity to put in place legislation and have forward meaning and Forward Thinking politicians who get enough support and say okay we're going to tax compute we're going to tax compute because we know there are going to be externalities that will require money around misinformation around teen depression paying off the deficit everything you're saying is correct right where are the people who have the courage to implement those things you're more cynical than me the government does pass some positive things the chips act the infrastructure act there are some people thinking long-term Bob Iger isn't going to save us Simon no I don't think he is and Sam Alman but I'm not looking to those guys to fix it I'm looking for the Revolutionary CEOs what Ben and Jerry's or REI okay who who's doing it yeah exactly I think aoup your power Simon you have so you are so articulate and so forceful is to Rally a group of people to find elected officials who are going to make the hard decisions to hold corporations and they super wealthy and reinvest in America looking to Rally CEOs right fair enough good okay for for every reason you've articulated because they they and by the way you're they I have the same meetings with them they spew the same they tell me what I want to hear and then they go and make the opposite decisions no no I'm fully aware of of the of the idiocy right um and when I when I can I'll call [ __ ] but that's part of what I think my job is is to call [ __ ] yep um I'm I'm rallying the rest of us what you know the voting population yep in business is is the workforce yep and I believe that power is not it's not a belief it's a fact that power always exists with the people the people always have the power agree another another quick idea you didn't like the or the compute idea I no no I love that idea all right another one why wouldn't we raise minimum wage to $25 an hour well it'll put all these small businesses out of business no it doesn't the states that have raised minimum wage for to to 122 or $15 an hour Washington State in California their economies have gr cuz the wonderful thing about poor people is they spend all their [ __ ] money it creates a multiplier effect and by the way if minimum wage had just kept pace with uh inflation or productivity would be 23 bucks an hour and by the way McDonald's and Walmart their stock would go down and that's okay corporate profits are at an all-time high wages as a percentage of GDP are at an all-time low minimum wage $25 federally mandated you and I agree here's where we actually agree that the power is with the people right you're saying it's the voter I'm saying it's the employee and what I'm hoping fa what I'm hoping is that just like the voting population gets involved and gets educated y um I'm hoping that the employee population learns the skills that they need to learn y about idealism and Leadership and moral obligation so that as they make their own way through the ranks y that they will become the leaders that they wish they had I like that the manifestation for that in the 20th century with is unions who are corrupt and ineffective there should be one Union all unions have been totally ineffective 45 of the 47 Nations that have unions have lost union membership union membership in the United States has been cut in half there should be one Union it should be in Washington DC and it should be federally mandated minimum wage of 25 bucks an hour and get rid of all the corrupt corruption and weirdness and inefficiency everything we're talking about usually if you go to a company with a good leader yep the what the what the federally mandated minimum wages is irrelevant right because good leaders will say my people can't live on that wage I'm going to pay them fairly okay right and those good leaders are usually in information economy companies that can afford to pay other people 25 bucks an hour unless all fast food companies are forced to pay $25 an hour the temptation to pay them $11 an hour will be too great they won't yeah I I I think that you and I have gone in a full circle here um because all we have advocated is Revolution no no no no but but I don't think it has to be a violent revolution but what we're advocating is Revolution There's an opportunity and I think they're out there for a younger person to come in and say it is time to pay it forward folks I'm going to literally piss off every special interest group but I need your vote it's funny because we're kind of saying the exact same thing which is we're looking for people to say what the solutions are and ask vote for me or support me whether at work or in in in in office to do the right thing um uh I agree with you the problem is is once they get the power and once they get the money the same thing happens there's a like Congressman that I've met with their their first terms or when they're running for the first time my God they really are idealistic then once they get there and they sniff the power and and they recognize that their job is fundraising MH the idealism falls falls there's some good people I'm not throwing Ro Senators Warner clar Bennett by the way on both sides of the aisle on both sides of the aisle there there's fewer and fewer on the right to be blunt uh fewer and fewer the the ratios aren't the same James Carville said and I think he's 100% right when he said it then and I think it's 100% true now which is the difference between Republicans and Democrats is Republicans want to win and Democrats want to be right well the difference between right and effective and also just to just to be give equal opportunity the farle has become uh incredibly naive and Incredibly anti-American incredibly in my opinion uh racist I think there's look the biggest threat in the world is not a pandemic it's not Putin it's not Hamas it's extremism yeah and if you look at the far left and the far right they seem to have all come together to agree on anti-Semitism I mean it's just we have we have decided to elect people who are extremists yeah and because of Jerry mandering and hard right and hard left um districts we send people who are just [ __ ] crazy on the left and people who are [ __ ] crazy on the right and we're supposed to govern that way yeah we have minority rule yeah right 80% of our Senators are from 20% of the population the vast majority of Americans are in the middle the vast majority of Americans think okay we need corporations to be successful but they should pay their fair share okay women should have botly autonomy should a woman be able to have a pregnancy in the third term without threat to the life probably not but that never happens let's have an honest conversation do we need three sets of bathrooms in every corporation probably not but for God's sake stop demonizing these people who make up the total population of lacrosse players and Wisconsin why the [ __ ] are we demon most people are somewhere in the middle yes and those people have absolutely no representation because social media says the following okay you need two things to survive as a species you have to enjoy sex right we still have that and you need to be able to get enjoyment in a rush from collectively pulling together and you referenced this earlier to defeat a common enemy whether it's either there's no more deer here we need to move on or there's people over the hill that want to kill us so we come together to kill them you've got to get a rush from that and in order to have that rush you need to find an enemy enemy yes and unfortunately because as you said we're no longer in a cold war well we need an enemy well I know let's turn our neighbors into enemies 40% fewer people are speaking to their neighbors right now 52% of Democrats are worried their kids going to marry a republican we're not each other's enemies we're [ __ ] Americans we're we're each other's allies for Christ's sake but instead let's find algorithms that pit us against each other let's find politicians that are more interested in making the other side looks stupid for their YouTube moment than actually coming together to actually [ __ ] govern enough already let's find people in the middle and by the way it I'm sure it happens to you it happens to me you know what they all agree on we should hate moderates this is what I get from the political Spectrum the far right calls me a libtard and occasionally when I talk about the importance of having a strong military or the taxes are too high on the super earners the far left feel like oh my God we thought we could trust you you have betrayed us there is absolutely no room anymore for anyone in the middle and unless people start speaking up and going you know what it' be doesn't make for good Tick Tock but it probably represents how most people think and we need to have a thoughtful opinion we need fewer ideologues and more pragmatists yes but there there there is such a wide space right now for a new generation of leadership to come in and say okay I'm somewhere in the middle I'm never going to personally attack anyone on the other side that's not why I'm here I'm here to get legislation done there's some obvious things we need to restore here income inequality is out of control we need an exceptionally strong defense we need to stop spending $7 trillion do a year and only taking in five trillion we need to stop this [ __ ] transfer of wealth from the entrance to the incumbents come on let's grow up it's time the opportunity is huge someone is going to step you and I are founding a new political party called the the common sensus you know the normies the normies the common sensus I am hopeful because and here's what gives me hope you and I shouldn't have careers I definitely shouldn't have a career you know I talk about trust and optimism [ __ ] you have the you have the core components of success you know what that is what's that storytelling you know how to tell stories I have but I talk about my stories are about trust and cooperation and there should be no demand for my work you don't believe that I do yeah I no no no if I had a if I had said if any of my books were written and anything that I said you're living in Russia talking about patriarchy or all if I had said if I had written anything that I wrote or said anything that I said in the 1980s there would be no one but you would have found something else no but the point is this is what I believe and my beliefs would have zero residents in the 1980s okay I got that the times are right for what we're talking about and there is demand yeah for the stuff that you and I are talking about there is demand for people who are looking for to belong to something and their the society isn't providing you know the bowling leagues and the and the religious institutions aren't providing it that that people are looking they they they they focused on money they did as they were told and focused on me and focus focused on on money and focused on advancement and they haven't found the happiness and joy that they've been looking for and so they're looking somewhere else and they're looking in weird places and weird spiritual things and what if I do iasa every weekend you know it's like it's like they you know it was said that a glass of wine a day is good for you that means the very American Way well of a glass of wine is a day is good you that a bottle of wine in a day must be great for you it's a quick stat just I'm prob there's a statistic showing that far right families are better at parenting than farle which upset me because I'm farle because of what you're talking about far- right families are more likely to inject institutions into the kids life religious institutions Boy Scouts what you're saying is the importance of Institutions the importance of Institutions the points the importance of collective of collective and the importance of friends you know this this is the thing that I'm sort of working on and writing about now which is you know there's an entire uh industry to help us be better leaders there's an entire industry to give us advice how to be better there's an entire industry how we can be healthy how we can eat right how we can manage our glucose how we can live longer and how we can exercise and there's absolutely nothing to teach us how to be better friends Y and none of those other things will be there in a time of need like like your boss isn't going to be there for you and by the way learning to be a better boss doesn't make you a better uh uh a parent learning to be a better friend makes you a better parent makes you a better boss makes you better everything yeah the thing that's lubricated friendship for me is alcohol by the way one and S which is why you and I aren't friends because I I won drink with that hurt you said to me the last time I saw you that you couldn't be my friend because I won't go out and get drunk with you now it means we couldn't have sex I don't think I've ever had sex with anyone I I didn't get [ __ ] up first uh we should probably edit that out um by the way for all young people listening my advice to you is go out drink too much and make a series of bad decisions that might pay off um that's not my career experience just so you know yeah yeah so but but there was one in seven men I'm trying to find a segue out of this one and seven men don't have a single friend one in four men can't name a best friend I agree with you I I'd like to see something called the Friendship project I'm trying to be more promiscuous for saying yes to stuff to to I'm at a point where I'm looking to shed friends not gain them but I'm trying to be better about it and something I'm trying to instill on my boys is I ask them to speak to a stranger when they're out because I'm worried that being on the phone that they slowly but surely become introverts that aren't investing in other people are they good at playing with each other like they playing together you know they're brothers so do you have siblings mhm I have a younger sister they're so you you hope as parents that they're going to be best friends and they're not you know the younger one's obsessed with the older one lashes out to get his attention the older ones into other things and kind how how what are their ages uh they're 13 and 16 yeah uh so our vision for what we'd hope they would be I mean I hope I hope it grows into a great friendship but right now they're more competitors than friends it's actually sort of heartbreaking but it's but it's an age that makes sense yeah I get it I get it but we'd still rather want they were looking out for each other a little bit more but anyways um by the way that was I think that's my biggest regret is not having more kids but I don't know how I got on this anyways you were trying to segue out of thing about to alcohol and having it's like my parents asked them if I was an accident they said no I was a tragedy um uh anyways where are we Simon bring us back so I I it goes the irony is of all of these Social Challenges that we're facing yeah and the decline of the Empire you know which is you know declines of Empires are acts of suicide always yeah you know the thing that we're watching play out in front of us um that perhaps just perhaps this very very old-fashioned thing called I care and love the people next to me mhm might actually be the solution because I want to do the right thing not for myself but for the people I love and and you know like I I spent time with Navy Seals yep and and and other y very high performing yep military uh special operators and what they all have in common is that they care for each other more than others are capable of and that they don't have this raw courage I think that's the definition of Love they don't have this raw courage it's that they fear letting each other down more than they fear dying yep and um it's all about the guy next to you it's all about the guy next to them and and I think very few of us you know I remember the first time A friend of mine in uniforms uh called me brother cuz you and I have colleagues and co-workers they have brothers and sisters and I remember the first time somebody called me brother that meant something and I also as a friend of mine who's a he's a warrior there make no mistake of it he's a warrior he's a he's a war hero he's risked his life to save others he's still in uniform and I remember we had a long conversation one evening just catching up as friends and at the end of the conversation before he got off the phone he said I love you not love you not love you I love you yep and men don't say that to each other for sure no yeah and I remember what it felt like I it it I'm feeling it now and I I was it struck me so hard yeah that I started experimenting saying that to the people who I feel that way about yeah and I have some friends who are I would call them not warm good people kind people not warm people y but I love them and I remember I'm thinking of two people in particular MH um and I remember saying to them I love you when I was leaving to say goodbye and I remember how struck they were yeah and then in very short time they started saying it back and in very short time they started hugging meh like they'd never hugged me before and these are old friendships yeah that's nice and when we talk about World War II and and and the willingness to the intense desire to serve I think it's because we knew our you said it before we knew our neighbors we barbecued with our neighbors we cared about our friends we went to church we went to bowling league we went to PTA meetings we took each other's kids to school yep um and dare I say it this very oldfashioned very very human Thing Called Love Thy Neighbor love thy friend might actually be the solution we're looking for that all the other things that you and I have spent way too long talking about might actually be symptoms rather than than than the causes themselves so I I like that I think that's part of it but you know how I say I love you to people now I give them money that's not love oh it's better the kids who work for me don't want my love they want money your friends I'm not talking about your I'm not talking about your employees I'm not talking about your employees okay but that's how I make the biggest impact okay I have a group of friends we share affection with each other I'm seeing like three fraternity Brothers in Aspen in two weeks I invite my friends to a bunch of [ __ ] I think they feel loved I know they love me but that's generous but in terms of moving Society forward here's how I was the first 40 years of my life anyone that walked into one of my companies had two bubbles one bubble was how much money they made one bubble was how much value they were adding and if the left bubble got bigger than the right I warned them and if it didn't get fixed fast I fired them I was a pure underated capitalist and now you know what I do I overpay people my job as someone who has a lot of money is to stuff as much money into the pockets of people who are working with me who do a great job it's almost like a self-imposed okay wonderful I love that keep doing it great love it okay but your friends that you're generous with and you'll pay for the trip and you'll pay for the hotel talk about that like I'm talking about like like here let's take two scenarios right A friend of yours is moving house yep and you you go you're you're such a great friend I'm paying for the moving van here's five grand right yeah you wanted to go over an actual help a move right and and and versus the friend no [ __ ] way no [ __ ] way okay so I'll be getting drunk with someone or I'll be at the hotel ducap by the way here's the money no need to thank me I got it money is the transfer of work and time it is the best but it's a redeemable commodity it's a redeemable commodity it's such an awesome commodity in a capital some people who work for you do they want to [ __ ] hug or do they want a bonus give them a bonus you keep a bonus [ __ ] you keep conflating employees and friends every time I'm talking about friends you keep going back to people who work for you work the guy lecturing CEOs turn them into your family isn't that what they called we're a family okay treat them like family give them money I'm talking about the people you love in your life that you will learn moral obligation and you keep going back should so be drinking now you keep talking about employees I think this I think we need to lie you down on a couch here and you need to tell me about your childhood why you can't talk about friends and loving friends and you keep keep want to talking about capitalism and pay not either or it's yes it's yes I got that part down I got they two different things and you can only talk about one of them why but they're not mutually exclusive what do we need more of people telling each other they love each other or stuffing more money into their pockets so they can so they can have their own house yes we need both those things vacation we're Simon vacation we need both those things but you are only talking about one I'm trying to get you to talk about the other okay I agree with you I'm there the love thing I have an idea the love things are great I have an idea I I don't think we suffer from an absence well okay the coarseness of our discourse is gotten too coarse I agree with you take the temperature down the greatest un the greatest unused commodity in history is good intentions men have a difficult time expressing their emotions it's great to say I respect you I think you're an interesting guy I think you're handsome given your age Simon it's it's these are things you don't have to say I love you we don't have that friendship it's fine it's not it's not going to happen it's I don't expect it would be weird if you said I I respect you the but I do think that for guys in my position I think the way I can add the most value is to really I'll give you an example I hit my number 10 years ago I don't understand I'm totally op optimized for happiness right now I got a third of my life left chronologically but I'm going to live 43ds of it spiritually and psychologically I'm just going to have a [ __ ] I'm going to squeeze so much juice out of this ellipsoid lemon called terara called Earth and I figured out the way I can be happiest is to get rich I got there that's really important to me it's wonderful in a capital society means I get to live a better life I me I get to be loved to be rich in America is to be loved full stop it's a violent rapacious place if you don't have money it's a loving generous place place you do have money once you hit your number and I would like to start a movement here there's no reason to be a hoarder cuz this is what makes you happy spend it I spend so much [ __ ] money and it's amazing and then you know what I do I give it away I have not increased my net worth in seven years I look at my number once I got there 10 years ago the last seven years I look at my number and if my wealth has gone up X and I haven't spent it all I give it away and you know what it makes me feel strong like bull I want to beat my [ __ ] chest it feels so good good and so what I would say to anyone else who has a lot of money why do you need to be a billionaire it's not going to get you anything here's what you do you go to the hotel duap with your wife you do amazing things with friends and family you take care of your parents you fly your friends to ask them to hang out with you and then anything above that you give it away and there's so many amazing causes and people and overpay the people who work with you throw money around like you're a [ __ ] gangster in the 50s diagnosed with ask cancer just live it up and you know what you're going to love life don't do it because you're noble don't do it because you're praying to some God or whatever it is I can tell you firsthand it feels amazing so I'm trying to appeal to people's selfish instincts you want to have an amazing life get rich Economic Security is important especially for a man and I know that sounds sexist but assume you are going to take economic responsibility for your household which sometimes means getting out of the way and letting your wife because she's better at the money thing and then once you get your number once you get your number spend it or give it away I was so trying to wrap this up and end this and you had to go and open a [ __ ] Pandora's Box for me now I can't just let that go okay okay you're missing one vital element from that rent okay at what cost at right what cost and in other words that's that that's what's been happening for the past I don't get a second plane cuz I'm giving my money away I'd like a bigger plane Simon no meaning I the GOL stream meaning people are are pushing so hard to make their number yeah it the cost is too steep it's at the cost of each other it's at the cost of society it's at the cost of our it's it's like like like I'm going to lay off all these people so that I can make my number I'm going to stab you in the back so that I can make my number it's it's your your rant needs a little bit of a head that's not true your because the rant that you're giving is the new capitalist 1980 you're falling into a populous myth that rich people call over other people to get there the majority of rich people are good people if you want to be really wealthy it's a full person project you have you're the one who said that there's no the CEO uh that I'm living at with roads colored glasses because the CEO is ignoring me because of you know they're doing a good job they're supposed to they're suppos we should have higher taxes on them but generally speaking they're good people I know yes generally speaking some of them are our friends yeah yeah some of them I don't like but some of them the majority of successful people have one thing in common and that is one they work out that's the thing that's most common physical fitness is really important you need to walk into a room and be able to either if [ __ ] gets real either kill and eat everybody or outrun them I believe that and two they're generally put in a room of opportunities even when they're not there because they're High character people so the cartoon of Monty Burns lighting his cigars with $100 bills that really isn't accurate but I at the same time they need to pay more than taxes they need to pay their fair share they can't be incentivized to lay off people and invest money artifici intellig it's tax policy it's incentives at the risk of this becoming yet another one of your podcasts that that you know Scott's announcing another podcast that he's doing it's now with me there you go how many do you how many podc podcast do you have now four to resist is feudal I'm like AOL in the 90s you stick your hand in a in a cereal box and you pull out a disc at the dog I'm everywhere I'm literally it's like I every time I turn on any kind of social media it's like resist isal Galloway G has another yet another podcast that he's doing it's like what how do you just spend eight hours a day like one podcast or the other here's the unknown secret I work I work 30 hours a week Max greatness is in the agency of others I have 14 people that I pay really well and I think overpay they would argue and they do an amazing job you have the same thing I've met your team you have really good people people think it's us in our kitchen with a camcorder or sketching out [ __ ] no and they don't realize no the key to success is like I said greatness in the agency of other is finding and retaining really good people and and it's easier when you pay them really well and the lesson I learned a long long long time ago when I had that that thought completely backwards when I started my business thinking that I had to be the one that had all the answers was learning to ask for help and accepting what it was offered I that's right yeah I still struggle with that but yeah I agree on that note are me agreeing with you Simon synic We agree on more than you think by the way I made fun of I made fun of Simon in my TED Talk I said that Ted was was a Brazilian Aela where Bill Gates and Malcolm Gladwell had a night of wild sex and gave birth to their bastard lovech child Simon cynic and literally the crowd went crazy for that that was actually I think the it was a picture of a baby with your face on I knew you would love it I think it was the biggest laugh you got it was it was oh wait and the picture of Bezos with his new wife that got a lot of that got a lot of laughs that got a lot of laughs Simon Scott I don't love you but I like you I like you a lot I like you Simon I like you a lot respect you a great de likewise brother uh and uh I'm glad you exist if you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts and if you'd like even more optimism check out my website simon.com for classes videos and more until then take care of yourself take care of each other

Channel: Simon Sinek

Views: 78,926

Keywords: simon sinek, start with why, inspiration, motivation, leadership, career, inspire

Id: _K_Xc8NrSCE

Length: 62min 54sec (3774 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 19 2024