The undoing of Tour de France hero Lance Armstrong

would you raise your right hand please do you solemnly swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God yeah I'm just trying to make sure your testimony is clear how many times up I said if it can't be any clearer than I've never taken drugs how clear is that that dogs on his fast or the fraud they all said he was too young but he gets it up the line Lanson we met at the Motorola Hotel he was only 21 years of age she was ready to tour for the first time and in that pathetic way of sports writers we like to be able to say it's on future point or you know I interviewed Lance when he was just a kid in his first tour and I was going to be like a badge of honor I had this sense of a guy who just wouldn't be beaten who through the force of his will and his personality became almost somebody different by any white one we're talking about the speed of the pallets I talked about this new drug EPO and talking about dr. Ferrari Lance would have known Ferrari by reputation now he wanted to meet the man and start working with him Lance of the intelligence to see that Ferrari was special in terms of his understanding of physiology and of the drugs and how they interacted with his charisma and his natural intelligence Lance was able to endear himself to Ferrari become the atom of what would be for our race creation you keep doing your job as Frankenstein and I'll be the best monster you've ever created and and Ferrari loved him for that you know the pupil from heaven look at the acceleration of this itty Jersey down low on the bikes he's so comfortable he jumped across that gap that gap was up to 30 seconds we're watching this fear stage and it was shocking it was like oh my god he's dropping riders dropping climbers this man has managed to come back from the face of death and now one of the mechanics was right next to me and he said it is solution at all song he's ripping the legs off this climber right now it is solution like these he's on the juice and I'm like what he said he's on the juice he is just going faster faster faster I had been convinced for some time that Armstrong worked with mechanic Ferrari Megami a long time from the digital ad builder I got the Italian please to help me they got me evidence that Lance in the space of two years been 13 days in the town of Ferrara and the only way if you were Lance Armstrong for being in Ferrara bus to see this dopey doctor Americans to our portion of the class come shoot in a Reedy open kitchen accomplishment solid OPA he had to do a press conference on the rest day in Poe I think this is a clean to her and in that press conference 16 questions go no questions about doping and then bang first question is asked and the doping questions then come like a like in an avalanche and as soon as the question turned to doping Lance did something quite strange I believe he's an honest man I believe he's a fair man and I believe he's an innocent man he started fixing his gaze on me and even though it was some journalists over here who asked a question Lance would refer to me in his answer would never denied the relationship even to you IP echo two weeks later David Walsh called up oh my god I don't know what to say so I chose my words as well as I could and I just said I'm disappointed he's seen Ferrari and then David posed the question now if he's clean would you consider this the greatest comeback in the history of sport and I said absolutely and he said but what if he isn't I said then it'd be the greatest fraud after that comment came out our whole lives changed in an hour after that was published come on keep it keep the team together we're gonna win it there was a train here and it was dripping with gravy here they are the Blue Train and these guys were desperate to mop up as much as they could for themselves because the financial rewards will huge this is the best team in the world right now I saw what I deemed a huge fraud in played out on a world stage and there was no place no place to turn journalists had approached me and some of them at God question said emailed me across and suffer very close to what was going on all the peloton around Armstrong side to sponsors are on Armstrong's side the UCI were on Armstrong's side everybody had a stake in Lance being a success and of course anybody who accused him was deemed an enemy of the sport London sports writer David wash accuses Armstrong of doping in the book LA Confidential I'll say one thing about the book and especially since our esteemed author is here in my view I think extraordinary accusations must be followed up with extraordinary proof and they have not come up with extraordinary proof why couldn't you just be proof that allegations must be followed up by proof and what Lance was saying is that when you're in icon who sits as high in the firmament as I do you're gonna have to have extraordinary proof to bring me down and I was true what he was saying was right different rules apply to the gods and I am a god Lance believed that he was bulletproof that he was invincible that they could bring down the Floyd's to tyler's they could bring down anybody but you can't bring down me because I'm too big to be blocked out UCI will ban Lance Armstrong from cycling and UCI would strip him of his seven Tour de France titles Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling do you owe David Walsh an apology series question do yo David Walsh an apology who for 13 years has pursued this story who wrote for The Times who's written books about you and this entire process I would I would I'd apologize to David I'm sitting in the fourth floor Sunday Times office and this is a huge building and I'm the only person I can see religiously o'clock in the morning and as much as I could I had to steady myself not to fall off the chair I'm on because he says yes I would apologize to David which is a complete lie he's never going to apologize to me in my eyes he hasn't obviously since then I don't expect it I don't want it I certainly don't need it but I thought that was a great moment intuition what Lance never had was the truth which is more powerful than the crowd camp is the American laws as bane it'll be remembered in the Millennium as one of the finest sporting achievements it's an epic story good afternoon ladies and gentlemen it says there my name's Alex butter I'm sports editor of The Sunday Times fascinating video that if you watch the initial press conferences that David attended with Lance he's sitting in a very very closed bunch hundreds of journalists by the time you in that film they're all sitting on his own and they're all sitting miles away from him because nobody wanted to touch David I to watch The Oprah Winfrey interview at 3 o'clock in the morning I was in a hotel down the road stayed up to watch it trust me I have never been so excited at 3 o'clock in the morning as my wife will testify to this to this day I'm just going to feel like the support the support act for a Rolling Stones gig so I'm not going to be keep you too long but the story really starts for the Sunday Times affidavit in 99 when when Lance wins what a story comeback kid cancer survivor tour riddled with doping control versus this brash young kid comes out wins it by a mile and I'm as excited as everyone else the paper was excited every paper in the world was excited what a great story and David ruined my day by ringing up and saying cutting it short I really don't believe this guy heavy heart really was my stomach sank I said David everyone in the world is loving this guy we're loving this story I don't believe him or David has forgotten more about the Tour de France and cycling I'll ever know and he wrote on the Sunday that Lance won his first yellow jersey he wrote paraphrasing basically sit on your hands don't applaud this guy when he drives along the chancel easy this afternoon we need to look at what's happening to cycling and we need to investigate this girl and the letters of complaint that came into the Sunday Times was unreal we got countless letters over countless years really all of his colleagues mocked him a lot of his colleagues ran from him I wish I'd kept the letters because I'd love to be replying to them today but he he could get away with that sort of story once you then got to go out and get evidence and that's what David Walsh did he got evidence bit by bit bit here bit there you never actually get somebody who spotted the hypodermic but you get evidence and through two very brave women lots of other contacts lots of traveling thirteen years of great ups great downs he finally landed that story and so I'm great pleasure to introduce you to date David Bush ladies and gentlemen thank you very much for coming along in such great numbers I kind of a little bit sorry about the disappointment you are about to maybe experience but anyway we'll carry on the first thing I'd like to tell you is it a little bit at the end because even though this story was difficult at times because we were being sued and money was being lost and we were being all caught we were being called lots of names it had us great moments - it was - great moments that I remember and that fuel me along the way you know even when people might have thought it was tough I found a great fun and the fun existed right to the very end until the day when a friend of mine calls me and says you know this could be a Hollywood movie I had written a book seven deadly sins and I said Richard be realistic I mean we're not Hollywood movie ain't gonna happen it it has happened if the film is made and it was a Thursday afternoon about a year ago when I heard that Chris O'Dowd was playing my part now I don't know if you know Chris O'Dowd but he's six foot four and he's extremely good-looking and if you got small small man syndrome as I have Chris O'Dowd is perfect it just means I don't do any television interviews anymore or anything like that I want you to go to the movie and think that's what I looked like um but I am sworn to secrecy about Chris O'Dowd you know the film companies I guarantee you when they make movies about you you realize that film companies are obsessed about controlling the message so something like Chris Adele being in their movie they want to do a press release they want to get it out on exactly today so I'm sworn to secrecy but I tell my family tell my wife tell my kids and our eldest daughter works in London and on a Sunday afternoon three days after I told her that Chris O'Dowd is playing me in the in the movie she goes out to her local bar in Bermondsey in South London she's with her partner Jaime they sit down they have a drink kate is told Jaime at this point of course she has sent you know dad twisted I was playing him in the movie Jamie is really excited they're sitting out there who should walk into the bar and this story is 100% true the guy who walks into the bar has got a woman with him he's six foot four and he's good-looking and his name is Chris O'Dowd right he's got dawn Porter which she apparently is a media person as well I'd never heard of her but you'll understand why I'm saying I've never heard of her in a minute Chris O'Dowd goes to the bar get to drink for himself dawn Porter they turn around they look around we're bonuses there are two seats alongside cage and Jamie you look in the next cubicle they come and they sit down and they start chatting and Chris O'Dowd says to Don Porter because Kate and Jamie can can hear every word they're saying and Katie Jamie suddenly stopped talking and they start listening and Chris O'Dowd says I just agreed to take apart from working title I'm going to play the journalist David watch you know in a film about Lance Armstrong and she says who's David ranch and he says general the journalist from The Sunday Times he's been on television are talking about Lance Armstrong and she said no anyway he explains and they talked for 45 minutes well he talks she listens about this movie he tells him what he's read the book he finds it a fascinating story and Kaazing Jamie are transfixed right people are taking photographs of Chris O'Dowd a couple of people came over get an autograph Kate and Jamie maintain a very dignified indifference and they go to the loo they're about to leave Kate calls me and she says dad you're not gonna believe this she tells me the story Chris O'Dowd coming in to hear everything blah blah blah and she said do you think I should just before leaving should I just go over and say Who I am and I said yeah yeah I do I said do so just go over and say you're David watch his eldest daughter so case no I wouldn't have taught you was shy but she finds it a bit traumatic so she walks over with Jamie and she stands in front of Chris O'Dowd and Don Porter and she says Chris I'm really sorry for interrupting but I would just like to say and she paused for the next bit he jumped in and said you and your boyfriend like to have a foursome and Kate said no hi I'm David while she's eldest daughter and he said oh so that's where this lovely story ends with my daughter thankfully saying no and if I were to remember where it began it actually began on a lovely summer's day in July in the hotel in a hotel garden as a garden of a lovely hotel old hotel outside Grenoble I was what was I I was at that point I was 38 years of age I've got a commission to write a book of the Tour de France I wanted to write a book about the Tour de France that read like Chaucer's Canterbury Tales where I would go and I would interview people who were on the race I would tell their stories and by telling their stories that we tell the story of the race I wanted the first chapter to be about a guy riding the race for the first time and neophyte I picked Lance Armstrong partly because he was a big name coming in to the pro game and he spoke English and we meet at this hotel we do it three and a half hour interview he's 21 years of age writing his first tour and I'm blown away by the force of his personality I thought this is one of the most interesting young guys I've ever met likeable yes he was brash you know it was a kind of kid I had done my homework and I said Lance you never knew your biological father and he said no he said he disappeared when I was 1 he's tried to come back in my life since I've been a professional cyclist but he said I want to have nothing to do with him now or evermore and I said and you didn't like your stepdad and he said I hated my stepdad and then he stopped and he said no no he said when I learned to hate I hated my stepdad and I'm there thinking wow this kid knows his own line this kid is going to go places and you know I said to him you're obviously here you must be overwhelmed by the experience you know young guy from Texas raised by a single mom 21 years of age your first Tour de France 5,000 people on this circus going around France you must be blown away by it and he said no I'm not and I said well what do you mean he said look you're a bit like the team management they tell me I'm here to learn I'm not here to learn I'm here to win and that evening I'm sitting down with the journalist I'm travelling with and I'm saying to them I'm telling you you're going to hear about this guy Armstrong this guy is going to make a huge mark in the world of cycling I said I've never seen anybody with that desire that ambition to leave his mark and if you said but do you like him I would have said yes and I as he saw something I said in that video it was like I got in to the would-be star or the future star on the ground floor and the lift was going to the top and I was going to say in years to come I knew Lancer I knew like I've known that since he was 21 that's where I saw the relationship and if you were to accuse me then and say David aren't you kind of talking a bit like a fan with the typewriter not real journalistic objectivity I have said yeah that's probably true I love sport I'm absolutely passionate and I love meeting guys are going to be successful and in an inner in that pathetic way you love to be associated with success and I thought I was going to be able to trade on I know Lance since he was 21 so we go away and then things change they change in his life they change in my life the big thing that happened him was that in 1996 he got testicular cancer it was described by his oncologist as life-threatening he had cysts on his lungs that had to be removed he had a testicle removed he had lesions on his brain that had to be removed as testicular cancer goes it was the ultimate form for sure it was life-threatening he came back from that he got the cancer in 96 October he returned to the sport in June of 98 he was back in the Tour de France in 1999 as a contender something he had never been before his cancer and he'd ridden the tour four times so when he came back in 99 he had been changed by his cancer changed in a way that was going to have a huge impact going forward but I came back in 99 because this was my first kind of reinvent with Lance Armstrong this we've done the interview in 93 we kind of gone our separate ways I was chief sports writer I was working for The Sunday Times I was doing different things I come back to the tour in 99 but as I say I come back a different person to change that happened me I suppose the two elements to it I went to the Atlanta Olympics in 1996 I joined the Sunday Times six months earlier and the Atlanta Olympics were famous if in our part of the world Britain in Ireland for an Irish swimmer who won three gold medals Michelle Smith who is now a barrister in Dublin went to that Olympics haven't had 12 years as an international swimmer during which she was second race never got near an Olympic final Ireland the country whom she represented had never won a medal in swimming Ireland in its entire history of the Olympic Games had only won four gold medals in its entire history now in seven days is one another three claimed by a woman who'd never been a front-line swimmer a woman who'd fallen in love with with the dutch discus thrower who had just been given a ban for anabolic steroids so this story stank from the moment it happened and I was one of three journalists who said you know what got to be careful before you believe this the headline in the Sunday Times that Sunday said poison in the golden pool now I still lived in Ireland at that time and that was he she hugely difficult story for me for my family because the Irish people had celebrated this victory like you can't believe 50% of the Irish population got up at two o'clock in the morning to watch a sport they had never watched in their lives and Michelle Smith was the biggest thing you could imagine and here you had three during the same don't believe it eventually mr. Michelle Smith would be outed as somebody who cheated she got a four-year ban for trying to defraud a dog control contaminating her urine sample in order to mask the drugs she was using and that changed me another event changed me a quite personal one our 12 year old son John John died to 25th of June 1995 today after the Rugby the world rugby Cup final in Johannesburg in South Africa I came home an hour before I arrived home John had been coming from playing a Gaelic football match he was knocked off his bike and he was killed one of my reactions to John's death was to get her every all the other kids around and say look John has been totally central to our lives for the last for the 12 years of his existence what we can't ever do is forget what he stood for forget who we was and I had this desire to accumulate as much information about him as I could so I went to his rugby coach in his Gaelic football coaches and I went to his football coach and I went to his school teachers and I just kind of got them to talk to me about what they remembered about him and there were two stories that stood out both from school teachers the first one was from the school principal that he was in mr. Looney John was 11 of the year before he died mr. Looney goes into a classroom because the teacher was that John should have had was sick somebody is written something on the blackboard something silly it's 15 minutes before lunch break mr. Looney says guys I need to know who's done this silence half an hour passes they are now gone 15 minutes into their lunch break the kids all of their lunches in the school like start starving and mr. Looney says silence guys nobody leaves this room until we find out it's now five to one they've got 15 minutes left of their 40-minute lunch break and John puts up his hand and the teacher says yes John and he stood up and he said sir it was my friend Andrew who wrote that stuff on the board and John then turned to Andrew can and his best friend he said Andrew if you stand up and tell mr. Looney you did it mr. Looney is going to allow all of us to go out and it'll be fine and Andrew stood up and he said sir John is right I did it and I'm really sorry and the principal said Andrew that's all I needed to know you can all go now there was no punishment there was no retribution they all got up and left and I thought my mr. Looney told her - Wow John somebody had to take initiative somebody had to actually get this process started and he did it and I loved him for it the other story I heard was a funny one by the one that underpins that would underpin everything I did in journalism post 1995 mrs. to me told me that when John was seven and he was in I think it was but year three she had it was 1 December she'd read the Nativity the story of the Nativity Mary and Joseph living in Nazareth they go to Bethlehem the baby Jesus is born in a stable the three shepherds come to pay the respects welcome the new baby then the three wise men come and they bring presents of gifts of gold frankincense and myrrh and then Mary and Joseph go back to Nazareth where they came from and Joseph was just a humble carpenter and they lived a very modest life because they didn't have very much and John put up his hand and he said teacher you said that Mary and Joseph lived a very modest life so what did they do with the gold that was very wise men brought them and she said John I've been reading this story for 33 years and nobody has ever asked me that and she said the honest answer is I don't know and when mrs. Timmy told me that I thought you know what that question is central to journalism that question is it should be central to adopt what I do for a living because what that does is it ignores the fact that the question might sound stupid it ignores the fact that it's blindingly obvious it just says this is what we need to know and if we know it will be better going forward and I thought for me going forward I was never going to sit there and think does the question I'd love to ask but I know it might sound stupid I was always going to think just ask us and see what the answer is so when Lance Armstrong turned up at the 1999 Tour de France and he's transformed himself into a Tour de France winner and I know because it's the records are there before this guy got cancer he's ridden the Tour de France four times his best place was 36th overall in a mountain stage he never finished within 8 minutes of the winner mostly he was 20 minutes 25 minutes 30 minutes behind so how can you get cancer come back from cancer and be completely transformed and this was a sport that the previous year had been revealed to be a doping circus and I'm thinking we've got our last questions here so the questions are being asked Lance what do you think about doping in cycling I mean last year the police came and they found drugs everywhere they looked what do you think about that and Lance immediately got on the defensive but his defensive was aggressive he said okay I'm going to answer this question once and once only and I'm immediately thinking why would you only want to answer it once and he says the problem we've got in cycling is that journalists have to understand sport has changed last year was last year everything has changed now and journalists need to need to fall back in love with cycling and I'm thinking that's not a very good answer Lance that's it that's an answer that makes me want to ask more questions there was a young French guy in that race Christoph Bassam and he was he had a nickname in the peloton they called him Monsieur proper as in mr. clean and he was like the teacher's pet that everybody hated because he was always doing the right thing and he was bullied in that race eventually he was driven out of the race by his by his own colleagues the peloton and the guy who bullied him the most was Lance Armstrong and I thought yeah you could say that song was a bit naive he shot his mouth off too much he said you know what guys you can't finish in the top ten in this race unless you're doping the other riders hated him for saying that my question was is Bassam credible is what he's saying believable and a blind man could have seen that Christoph Barr song was totally credible and right on that race I made it kind of pact with myself I was on bass on side and that put me on the opposite side to Lance Armstrong so that's when I made the call - Alex Potter the sports editor of The Sunday Times as alex is just recounted I made a call and said Alex I just don't believe this and I can still hear that disappointment in Alex's reaction you know the oh no please tell me it's that you don't see it like this and I said I do and I can't emotionally I said I can't be excited because I don't believe it's true now one of the things about sport now is if you watch pardon me for picking out sky in this video please of criticism but if you watch say Sky Sports and you watch football you watch match in did it match of the day Gary Lineker has spoken about this he said one night I'm not today in the little preview he said this is the one tonight you may want to miss because it was like three nail nails and two other rubbish games very few of the top teams were playing and Linacre has since recorded how BBC told him you can never do that again because television wants us to react in a particular way to the sport we're seeing in other words this is the most exciting game you've ever seen this is the most wonderful event and Lance Armstrong winning the Tour de France was perhaps the most life-affirming story in the history of sport this is a guy who come back from life-threatening cancer to win arguably the toughest athletic event in the world if this didn't make you feel good about yourself what would so when I say to Alex I have no enthusiasm for this that was tough for a sports editor to hear but what happened next was going to determine the narrative that I would pursue for the next 13 years which was basically that Alex said if that's what you feel that's what you gotta write and we'll support you so basically on that first Sunday I wrote just keep your hands by your sides today there's a Texan coming down to Shawn Sally's in a yellow jersey don't applaud and as Alex is recounted we got unbelievable vitriol in emails and letters the one I love to quote is Keith Miller from Glasgow who said who said mr. Walsh you have the worst cancer of all you have cancer of the Spirit now I hope Scotland gets independence and that Keith Miller lives in a different country to the rest of us and but he was only reflecting what pretty much everybody thought and I knew from this moment that I now had to be what I wasn't I was never an investigative sports journalist never an investigative journalist but a bit like that song I shot my mouth off and I had to make some effort to substantiate it so I try to investigate the one thing I knew was that Lance Armstrong's best friend and teammate Kevin Livingston had been named in an in an Italian vestigation into miquellee Ferrari a dr. livingstone Armstrong's teammate was working with the doping doctor why I wondered would Livingston work with the doctor and not Armstrong surely the two of them were there I had a friend in Italy Sandra de nasi he had great contacts with the Italian pleased he persuaded the Italian police to check it out was there a connection between Armstrong and Ferrari the police established the connection by going to the two best hotels in the town that the doping doctor lived they seized the register book looked for Armstrong's name and found that Armstrong's name was all over the register in other words he was visiting this town on a very regular basis only reason for being there was to work with the doping doctor I thought that's it I've cracked it one year into an investigation I've got it I can link Armstrong with the doping doctor it made virtually zero impact all Lance Armstrong had to do was to sit down at a press conference and say I believe Micheli Ferrari is an honest man and all the journalists are saying that's his Lance has sorted that out now Ferrari would go on trial in September he would be convicted he would later be on the statute of limitation he would win on appeal but he was convicted of being a doping dr. Armstrong worked with him but that was okay so the story I wrote in The Sunday Times was saddled with suspicion I told him would change the world it changed nothing had to keep going one of the things that emerged out of that were that people saw that I was trying so Betsy Andreu wife of Lance's teammate Frankie came to me and said David we need to talk I went to Michigan in in Dearborn outside of Detroit in Michigan went to Betsy's house she told me that she was in a hospital room when Lance had cancer visiting him she heard him tell his doctors that he'd use banned performance-enhancing drugs before he got cancer I got a call from memo Reilly and our through an intermediary got a message from her to contact her went up to Liverpool interviewed her for seven hours she gave me chapter and verse on Lance's doping she had been a masseuse in the team for five years she'd been Lance's masseuse for two years she went to Spain and collected drugs for him she dumped his you swingers she put concealer on his arm to cover up the syringe marks and most tellingly of all she was in the room when they concocted an alibi - a positive test that Armstrong had had in his very first term and when you heard me say in that video that everybody wanted this story to be true I can't emphasize that part of the story enough because there was enough evidence in 1999 when Armstrong won his first Tour de France for the authorities to stop and right there and say this is wrong we know this guy is doping because they knew us it would take them 13 years to acknowledge a truth they had known back in 1999 the story had become such a big thing in my life at this point that I decided I should write a book of course nobody in England would publish a book about Lance Armstrong that was regarded as legal dynamized I mean the spot the Sunday Times were doing had the Sunday Times out on a limb we were the only newspaper who would touch it all the other newspapers in Britain would they were basically ridiculing what we were doing they were kind of supporting Armstrong in every way I remember when Tony Blair wasn't elected or handed over to Gordon Brown and Alastair Campbell his spin doctor was that a loss to know what to do and Alistair decided he would become a sports writer and the person he most wanted to interview was Lance Armstrong and he he did the interview on our sister newspaper in The Times and this was in 2005 but all the evidence was there and Alistair had one cursory little question about doping and put it in the context of Lance you've had trouble with some journalists like I've had where we both must despise journalists as much as each other and Lance agreed and they laughed about it and Alastair did a wonderful piece saying what a fantastic human being Lance Armstrong was how admirable how believable how much of a role model and that's the kind of stuff I suppose that to put it mildly irritated me at the time because I had a very different view and but of course and well the book LA Confidential that I mentioned that I did couldn't get it published in England couldn't get a published in the u.s. it came out in France it sold over a hundred thousand copies it was number two on the French bestsellers for six weeks I wrote it with an excellent French journalist Pierre Ballester I totally changed the world it didn't Armstrong then sued the Sunday Times Sunday Times defended the case for two years we basically took our case to our judiciary and and put it to the test of our libel laws and our libel laws basically said you cannot touch Lance Armstrong he is an icon different laws apply to him and if you dare come to our courts trying to say that Lance Armstrong is a doper you are virtually certain to lose before we even got near the courts the Sunday Times had spent 700,000 in legal costs we have to settle with Armstrong because by going to court we were going to lose five six million maybe the case cost the Sunday Times two years of a lot of work a lot of meetings and a million pounds and we basically had to surrender and that was enough was for sure a low point and I still was fixated with the story if I'm being honest and I wanted to get LA Confidential the book out in English I will have an English version of that book called from Landstuhl and it's inside the doping controversy inside the US doping controversy at the Tour de France and a number and I could only get that published in America still couldn't get it published in Britain all British publishers were scared stiff of Armstrong but eventually the story changed and Lance Armstrong was seen for who he is and if you'd said to me but David if we go back to 2005 when he stood on the Tour de France podium and said he felt sorry for the cynics and the zealots the people who couldn't dream big the people who didn't believe in miracles he was talking about you and he'd won the Tour de France seven times at that moment he had 120 130 million dollars in the bank you had lost he had won I would have said absolutely true and you might have said no how'd he feel about that a lot of effort no result I would have said well the Sunday Times and I tried we felt we knew the truth and we wanted to bring the truth to as many people as possible and I was always convinced that even though I mostly got negative reaction people who so wanted to defend Lance I felt there was a lot of kind of I wouldn't call him a majority but there was a silent group out there who believed in what we were saying and appreciated the fact that we continued to say it but at that moment 2005 Armstrong had won and my said my kind of consolation to myself was I thought if I made the eight years of age and I'm on a rocking chair and you say to me did you do anything in sports journalist or anything you did that satisfies you I would have said Lance Armstrong and you might have said but he's the seven-time winner of the tour he's the great champion he's the guy who won at all and I'd say well my newspaper and I tried to say it was a fraud and that's the best thing we could have done at that time the story unfolded later of course it did the reason it did and the reason Armstrong was brought down in my view was because he fell for the oldest plot in Hollywood he'd been retired for two three years after 2005 somebody came along to him and said Lance come back for one more job you've seen it with the jewel thief the bank heist guy the assassin they retired they've got everything but they're lured back Lance was lured back and the second reason in my view why he came down was because Lance Armstrong the bit that appealed to me in that very first interview was the certainty the strength of character they're kind of almost you know we've all worked for people that you would probably describe as having sighted psychopathic tendencies you know it makes them good bosses a lot of the time makes them lousy to work for but maybe very effective Lance had a lot of psychopathic tendencies when I interviewed him the first time I could see the strength of that but when it came down to it he could never match his kind of analytical intelligence with emotional intelligence and he basically pissed off a lot of people along the way people like Betsy Andreu people like Emma O'Reilly people like Stephen Swart people like Greg Lomond who would all become sources of mine and he pissed off a former teammate called Floyd Landis and Floyd Landis had been he came after Lance he won the very next tour he tested positive he got a two-year ban he lost everything he returned to the sport at the same time that Lance returned he rang up Lance and said I just wanted a place in your team nobody will take me and Lance said I'm sorry Floyd you're bad news now and if you're a friend of Blanche you would have said hey Lance hold on here this guy knows all the secrets he knows where all the bodies are buried give him a job 100,000 a year keep him quiet and Lance didn't see that so floyd landis wrote letters to all the top people in the Anti Doping movement and said I once rode with Lance Armstrong I don't he doped I saw him he gave chapter and verse on the doping now all the people he was writing to people like Jeff Novitzky from different FBI who was involved with the food and drug agency people like Travis Tygart the head of US anti-doping they'd read books that I had done they'd read articles I had done they knew the truth but they didn't have a way into the story as soon as Floyd wrote them personal emails said I did this you need to investigate they had a weigh-in and Lance was about to be brought down in the end it happened on October 22nd 2012 I felt a kind of a strange sense of anticlimax on that day lots of people would call me up I mean I had worked in this story for 13 years I never had one call from the BBC to say David we know you've given up a lot of time on this story Lance Armstrong is now winning his for terrorists 50 or whatever juror how do you feel about it not one call I was bad news I was the guy who was going to rain on that parade and nobody wanted rain on a sporting parade well at something like half 12 on the Monday afternoon October 22nd 2012 UCI the world-governing body of cycling said Lance Armstrong deserves to be forgotten he's kicked out of cycling after that interview ended I got seven calls from the BBC in a half an hour BBC Merseyside BBC all radio Ulster BBC five live radio for every BBC you could imagine David please talk to us so the world had changed in my little part of it anyway and the thing that I remember thinking and that day was you know what I love the chase I love the hunt but here we have to kill and it's leaving me strangely flat don't feel any excitement don't don't feel any of the joy that everybody else seems to be or any of that energy that people are feeling you know I loved it when Lance Armstrong rang me up say in 2000 and said David I read which arose into Sunday Times I said what's that Lance he said you wrote a column where the last line said your new year's resolution is to bring you bring the readers of the Sunday Times information about the greatest cheese in the world of sport and I said Lance what about it they said you were writing about me and I said what made what makes you think that and he said I know and I said Lance could be one of ten people he said now you know I know and he just bang down the phone and it was was it did I feel threatened absolutely did it excite me totally I thought we've got this guy now a little bit on the back foot and we've got to keep him there as much as we can and all of that Chase was a wonderful time in my life if I could leave you a last story funny story well I found it funny at the moment perhaps you want I was playing around a golfer to belfry I don't know if any of you have ever played golf but it's a game that you know you've got a handicap to go to a very good have a low handicap to guys who are not so good have a high handicap I've always had a kind of a lit and alesis view about this game that if an email has a handicap over 18 he should be ashamed of himself you know no nobody should have and no man should ever had to get over 18 I'm playing this day at the belfry just outside Birmingham friend of mine were playing with two footballers one of them is Shaun Maloney who plays for Wigan Athletic in turn but Scotland really nice guy the other guy is Steve copy who once played for England and I should actually rephrase that who played once for England Steve gulping really nice guy was then a coach at Sunderland and used to play Leicester City sweet guy Sean Bell only handicapped head what you'd expect from a footballer Steve got a handicap 22 and before he hits the ball I'm thinking Steve your fish you're relatively young you're talented how can you ever handicap 22 so Steve Godley doesn't know from Adam who whom I am I know who he is and I expect I just think I'm going to witness something I'm not going to like be a big - this guy's better he starts off in the first hole he makes par tough hole makes par second hole he makes another par third hole par for told the fifth hardest hole on the golf course he makes birdie we start complimenting him prosthesis great putt Oh Steve that's a great Drive we're now sickness at least I am and we're on the fifth tee and I'm done I'm just gone all the composure the politeness disability forgotten I say Steve look man I don't want to be rude or causing an argument here but you will under par for the first four holes and you say your handicap was 22 I said man this is a fraud I said it's just a fraud and Steve got me looked at me and he got down on his knees on the tee box and he put his two hands over his head and he said Oh David he said please don't pursue me for 13 years about this thank you very much I know that I know that we've got to go to lunch now and anybody would rather go to lunch and listen to some speaker but it's a rani buddy with some questions I'd love to have a little Q&A where if there's anybody with a question that I didn't cover or something that bothers them about the story put your hand up and we will just here in the front yes they do just what yeah we wait for the mic like that do you think the tools playing there I think the sport is much cleaner now I'm not sure it's clean it's definitely no I I'm sure it's not clean but it's much better than it was I think we need a new wave of investigations where we look at maybe legal ways of doping that guys are you guys are finding products now they're not on a banned list or they can get away with using them and I think it's a more subtle a more subliminal way of doping and I think that's where the efforts now of the authorities and the journalists need to be and I look forward to the Sunday Times beginning again on this kind of crusade anybody else yes we down at the back yeah just wait for the mic he's done that we got a view on the 2013 Delta did 2013 Delta spanning welted with Chris Horner yeah I'm afraid sorry I just couldn't prisoners about 40 years of age and he he wins the tour visitor of Spain last year I didn't buy it it's tough on Chris Horner but you know what you end up judging on it's like when your kids come home with the wrong with the wrong crowd you think your kid is making a mistake well Chris Horner always supported Lance Armstrong through the years suddenly at the age of 40 when his biggest race of his life and I'm sorry didn't believe anybody else for the question before we all go sorry yes lady here was the never a time when you thought actually you know lungs has been through such a time he's come out he's come out the other end it's got that steely determination its grit and determination that pulling him through that and made him into a winner did that ever cross your mind or was it just that good instinct that there was something a me no no I I wouldn't even call it a gut instinct it was it was a gut conviction and a lot of people used to say to me but look at all the good he's doing look at all the inspiration he's giving people who have cancer look at out all the people who bought his book for an uncle who had been stricken with cancer look at all that and would you not just leave him alone and and accept that the good he's doing is far greater than the cheating well there's a scene in the in the movie that's going to come out in the spring that working title have made Stephen Frears directors and to me it's it's the best scene in the movie and it's it's kind of the reason why I found it so easy to be persistent you've got Lance in a shop signing books this old lady comes in and this is a scene that steven ferreira so the writer have come up with it didn't happen but I think it's class this woman comes in and you can tell from her face she's been through a lot you'd say kind of a working-class low income type of face the way she's dressed the way she carries herself she stands there in line it's her turn she pushes the book in front of Lance and he looks at her he takes out his pain and he opens up and he starts to write best wishes Lance Armstrong and she wants to get his attention and she says Lance I had cancer and he looked up and he suddenly got uncomfortable you could see he's uncomfortable he doesn't say anything he doesn't want to engage with her she said I gave up I stopped trying and then I and then I read your book and now he doesn't want to look up at all his head is down he writes he pushes the book back towards her and she's desperate to get his attention and she says you are the reason that I am alive and at this point he feels sick he just pushes the book to her he looks away she's really confused she can't understand why he won't say that's great the reason of course that he can't say it was great is because he knows he's a fraud and he knows he's duped all of these people who are cancer and for me that's the greatest crime in everything that Lance did he held out false hope to people who deserved vastly better and that scene in that movie is just it makes that point so powerfully you know what it said is Lance could lie to all the corporate people he could lie to all the sponsors he could lie to all the journalists but he couldn't lie to that woman and I thought it was extremely powerful okay we're done thank you very much again that was really enjoyable

Channel: Newsworks

Views: 300,192

Rating: 4.3900628 out of 5

Keywords: newspapers, newsbrands, cycling, Alex Butler

Id: IWU9CAVrFAs

Length: 55min 35sec (3335 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 22 2014