The Ultimate Guide for Identifying and Sourcing Watch Parts.

if you're new to watchmaking or even if you've been at it for a while you know that finding watch Parts is not only frustrating but it can be very time consuming to even begin to start looking for parts the first thing you have to know is what the movement is inside the watch so today I'm going to share with you a process that you can use to identify unknown watch movements and then I'm going to give you my best tips for determining the part number as well as where to go to Source the parts just remember finding watch Parts is all about information and information is King we have a lot to cover so let's get started you know to even begin looking for a part for a watch you first have to know what the caliber is that you're dealing with the Swiss and Japanese makers will either have their name on the bridge or the rotor or even a Maker's Mark stamped on the main plate by the balance wheel and then sometimes they'll even put it on the dial side early American pocket watches are typically identified by a model number and a grade so you simply just go to the pocket watch database you enter the name of the manufacturer and the serial number and it will give you the model number the make when it was manufactured and just everything you could possibly want to know about when and how and who made that movement now with American pocket watch movements they're referred to instead of calibers they call them grades and then there will also be different model numbers which are just variations of the grade now in the left column you can click on the parts Tab and you'll find a ton of information about part numbers as well as propagated links from eBay showing those parts now it's always a good idea to cross reference these numbers from other sources whenever possible and just a word of caution not all eBay sellers know what they're selling and part condition is never guaranteed even when it's New Old Stock you also want to be careful with certain parts like New Old Stock main Springs as an example considering these are typically 70 years old or more they do have a tendency to break and if you are going to use one you need to take it out of the ring clean it and re-lubricate it otherwise it's going to hurt your performance older Swiss ebox movements like we talked about in the last video can be pretty much impossible to find any parts for because there were no part systems in place at that time it really wasn't until the Swiss industry really started consolidating into larger companies that a system for caliber identification was actually put in place and they actually started stamping the movements with a maker's mark and a caliber number these will typically show up right around the balance wheel or they could be stamped on top of a bridge or in some cases they'll actually be on the dial side of the movement to find list of Maker's Marks you could simply just Google Swiss watch Maker's Marks and you'll come up with all kinds of results now once you have a caliber number you want to head on over to ranch.com and you can search for that caliber in their database it's going to pull up a picture of the movement probably both sides sometimes only one and it's going to give you all sorts of other helpful information like the size of the movement the size of the watch hand ends in the size of the mainspring if the movement is unmarked and you have a name on the dial you could go to a website called macrolis which is a database of trademarks and trade names just as an example if we had a watch with Assa on the dial we could search for it in the database and quickly see that the manufacturer is Adolf child so we can assume that the movement is an as caliber movement so now that we know who made the movement we could go back to rant.com and search for as and you will see all the as calibers and Dr ramp's database now the data number on the right is the Swiss link size so you can measure your watch's diameter convert it into the Ling measurement and then search only the calibers that are the right size and type meaning automatic or manual wind depending on what you're trying to identify another option would be be to look for an import code on the movement Swiss movements after like 1936 were required to have a three letter code stamped on the movement showing that it was a Swiss import that way the us could collect a little bit of tariff tax trying to level out the playing field for the American companies now when you look up this import code usually it's going to give you the manufacturer's name because that's the company that's actually doing the importing so again with this information that will at least identify the maker of the movement but sometimes it's just going to be an import company which really won't help you and again once you identify the company that's importing it then you can go back to ramp.com and search that database for that manufacturer's name and see all the movements that are associated with it now if that doesn't work ramped also has an advanced search option where you can go in and tick off things like the shape of the movement the shape of the regulator arm uh the location of the winding stem and all these different parameters and then it'll search for everything that you've checked off and then you can just kind of go through those movements to see if any of those look like the watch you have now in the early days prior to the use of Maker's Marks by the Swiss there were parts available to watchmakers the problem was that watchmakers didn't know what the caliber was so they couldn't order the parts and it was a problem when you look at a watch from that time period the watchmaker side where the train of Wheels is they all pretty much look the same but what's different is the keyless works on the dial side of the movement manufacturers customize this to make their watch movements unique primarily so they didn't run into copyright or patent issues to help the watchmakers one of the largest suppliers at the time called best fit created a whole section of their catalog where the different keyless parts were outlined identifying the manufacturer and the actual caliber so that a watchmaker could actually identify what they're working on and be able to order replacement parts from Best Fit we call this form of identification fingerprinting and it really gets down to one of the last ways that you can identify a movement if you've exhausted everything else and you still can't figure it out then it's probably not going to get figured out now the best fit catalog is absolutely a must if you're going to be working on any older Swiss movements and not only is it great for that but it is absolutely full of information about watch parts and you can actually just order a digital copy for 10 bucks from the supplier below now part sheets have been around ever since parts were available to watchmakers they used standardized numbers called ebook numbers to identify the parts on the sheet for that caliber but these numbers are not really part numbers like we think of on Modern technical sheets when searching for parts using ebook numbers you want to use the manufacturer's name the caliber the part name and the e-book number in your search now you can just search the internet looking for parts or technical sheets by typing in the caliber number technical sheet and a lot of times that will produce results you can also go to cousinsuk which is a great source not only for watch Parts but for technical sheets just type in the maker in the caliber of the movement you're looking for and then scroll down on the right sidebar to see if it's available now to find Seiko technical sheets you just go to Seiko service USA a slash upload slash data sheets and you should be able to find what you're looking for there for American pocket watches part sheets are available with the model number and great information at pocket watch database and then you have awci which is the American watchmaker clock maker Institute which has one of the largest databases of tech and part sheets available to their members with a 99 a year membership now for my money the best option for parts numbers is using books directly from the manufacturer this is an Elgin Watch part catalog that has every part number for almost 700 different movements and it also allows you to see what other grades or calibers that part is interchangeable with now for American pocket watches The Illustrated manual for American watch movements by Ian J swiger is my go-to for part numbers as well as mainspring information and oddly enough they even have Boulevard interchangeability Marco is a free digital catalog originally put out by the CE Marshall company and it is an absolute Treasure Trove of information not only on movement Parts but it has dialed illustrations as well as hand sizes that were used for different dials now we've already talked about the best fit catalog for fingerprinting movements for identification purposes but for Swiss part numbers there's really nothing better or more complete spend the time and read these catalogs because the amount of information about watch parts and these things is phenomenal I think the Marco catalog is something like 800 pages and not only do they have information about launch Parts but all kinds of things that it's got Maker's Marks and import codes it just it's a treasure Trove of information Jules Burrell L is by far one of the most important sources for identifying part numbers and sourcing vintage watch parts to start click on the JBC database link enter the Maker's three letter code and then the caliber number now this will bring up the caliber number if it's in the database then by clicking on the caliber number that will pull up the parts for that movement just note that the price is listed are not going to be accurate now when you click on the part that you need it's going to take you to another page and at the very top it shows you what the part number is and then it also shows you all the other movements that use that same part this is extremely useful because let's say you're looking for a parts watch for a particular movement uh whatever it is you're working on let's just say it's uh you know a 7002 senko movement well it's going to show you all the other Seiko movements that use that exact same part so if you can't find a seven zero zero two caliber you can use these other movements to source that part now you simply just copy the part number then you go back to the main website and paste that part number in the search window and this will pull up the part with its current price and whether or not it's in stock or not now what you have to realize about this database is that any movement or any part that's in there that means at one time or another they've had those parts but certain parts just get eaten up because there's a lot of people working on watches and they don't make most of these parts anymore but what you probably don't know is that companies like Jules Burrell they buy up Estates from watchmakers so they'll bring in new parts all the time so even if a part wasn't available the first time you looked a month down the road or whatever they may have that part again now even if they don't have have the part you have the part number so now you can use that part number to search with other watch supply houses now if you scroll below the search bar in this database it'll show you all the makers that are in the database in alphabetical order and when you click on it it'll show you their three letter code so if you don't know what the code is that's where you can find it and then you can just scroll down to that caliber and you can search that way as well now below that you can actually search for Seiko case Parts by entering in the information just like it's on the dial and this is going to bring up case Parts as well as crystals dials and hands and other kinds of information that wouldn't be included on part sheets now just remember I mean even if the part is not available there with the part number now you can search all over the internet to find the part that you're looking for boli is another great option that you could use to search for part numbers now you won't be able to buy from them because they only sell to professional watchmakers but that doesn't prevent you from searching their database and what's great about bowling is that they have a lot of brands that you won't find on Jules Burrell's database now when it comes to buying watch Parts my choice is always going to be the supply house I mean at least here in the U.S we've got supply houses that have been around for almost 100 years some of these companies are third fourth generation family members that are running them and they have an incredible amount of experience behind them now I will admit some are better than others as far as being helpful finding information because back in the day you know these guys kind of got used to dealing with professionals but because of the way the markets change they've had to open up their doors to hobbyists as well so if you're going to contact them I would definitely know exactly what you're looking for because they're not going to do the work for you you definitely have to know what you're looking for and if you do they'll be more than glad to help you but you can't call them up and say what size crystal do I need for this kind of watch because they don't have time time for that kind of stuff now down in the comments I've included my master list of watch supply house and you can download it I've got it in my Google Drive you can go in and you can download it no problem some of these suppliers are only going to deal with professional watchmakers but the vast majority will sell to anybody that contacts them these suppliers are going to be all over the world because you know you never know where you're going to have to go to find watch Parts it is not unusual for me to go through an entire month of watch service and not buy one part from inside the US where I am ebit can also be a great source for watch Parts just be aware that a lot of the sellers They Don't Know Jack about watching and they just have come across a gross of watch parts that are selling them so just double check your information Crossroad reference it and ask any questions if you have any doubts before you order it now you're also going to see on eBay you're going to see some generic parts that are made by the Chinese for movements like ETA my advice is stay away from them completely here's an example of a generic palette Fork which is made for an ETA 2824 I got this just because I wanted to compare it to a factory part luckily I didn't open the part to inspect it I inspected it through the sealed container and if you look closely you'll notice that it's completely missing the lower pivot if I had opened up this package I wouldn't have been able to say anything about it they would have just said well you broke it when you were trying to put it in so personally I would just stay away from that stuff now part or donor movements are another great option especially if you're going to be working on a lot of the same movement or a lot of the same brand because a lot of those movements will have part interchangeability with other movements not to mention the fact that New Old Stock parts are probably not even going to be available now when you're buying donor movement it's always best to buy a complete movement as the ones that are partial movements almost always have been picked and stripped of all the best parts now in my experience part lots are typically a huge waste of time and money now these part Lots if they're donor movements are typically all going to be pick clean of all the best parts and if you're talking about random Parts like a bunch of wheels or just a bunch of crystals or anything like that they're typically going to be stuff that you're never going to use a lot of times eBay sellers will sit on this stuff they'll try to sell it individually and if it doesn't sell they just put them in a big lot and send them out and that typically means that those parts are for watches that nobody's working on now the exception of this would be certain part assortments that you can buy from supply houses like gaskets or Springs or even screws if you work on a lot of dive watches having an assortment of case back gaskets and Crown gaskets would make perfect sense instead of buying them just one at a time one part that seems to go missing a lot are movement Springs having an assortment of different styles of Springs is almost a necessity as they can almost be impossible to find from suppliers and sometimes they're only available when you buy a whole donor movement and nobody wants to buy a whole movement for one spring undoubtedly you're going to lose a screw or be working on a movement that's missing a screw since buying a factory screw okay it almost cost as much as five dollars plus shipping having multiple assortments of watch screws is definitely going to end up saving you money in the long run now another good one is assortments of shock Springs you're also going to run into shock Springs that are damaged enough that they won't even hold the End Stone down properly and they're going to need to be replaced now there are some parts assortments that you should absolutely stay away from the first would be hair Springs other than using these hair Springs to practice on buying lots of hair Springs is typically for new watchmakers absolutely a waste of money if they don't have the correct collet which is installed in the correct direction and have the correct stud at the end of the hairspray as well as the correct weight needed for that balance wheel you're never going to be able to use them in a watch move if they're just Raw Hair Springs with no collared or stud then again they're pretty much unusable for you at this point unless you want to learn how to pin collets how to vibrate hair Springs and all the things that you would need need to actually be able to use them the one thing that I would suggest is if the price is low enough to get some raw hair Springs or get any hairspring it really doesn't matter and you could use these hair Springs to practice your needling with another assortment I would stay away from is assortment of miscellaneous Jewels Jewel assortments unless they're brand new sites brand Jewels are typically made up of factory seconds that couldn't be sold as new jewels that are going to be pretty much unusable to you unless you have the ability to shape them and polish them on a lathe so other than a curiosity there's no point in buying them now there's also new sites Jewel assortments but those are usually kept by production shops that work on all kinds of watches and never know what they're going to get and these assortments will typically have a bunch of sizes that you will probably never use and they're pretty pricey so I wouldn't buy those either many of the parts that you need to Source can simply be non-factory or generic parts and when I say generic I'm talking about parts that are made by industry Specialists not some poor quality knockoff generali resortes are the industry leader for main Springs I'll usually start off at cousins UK If I'm looking for a particular size or an alternative to a size and then once I locate it I now have the gr number and now I can search U.S suppliers but oftentimes I just end up going back to cousins anyway now the two largest acrylic crystal suppliers are going to be GS supplies and Stern Crews which not only makes acrylic crystals but they also make mineral and sapphire crystals as well I'm just going to shotgun some of my favorite suppliers that I use on a regular basis when it comes to acrylic crystals my go-to company is tip topcrystals.com they have a huge inventory these guys know acrylic crystals inside and out and they have unbelievable customer service I have ordered crystals from them before and actually they've thrown in an extra one of the same size just as a backup in case something happened with that particular Crystal who does that kind of thing anymore if I'm looking for a balanced staff there's no better place to go than balancedstaffs.com one of the great things about this website is they have a huge database of information across all manufacturers and when you pull up the balance staff there's actually drawings that give you the dimensions of all the different parts of the balance staff so that you can know that you're getting the right size when it comes to main Springs it's got to be because it's UK not only can you search by manufacturer but you can search by size so sometimes when you're looking for a mainspring and you know what size it should be that mainspring could be completely discontinued so what you're able to do then is look at all the available sizes to pick the one that will work for that watch and like I said I'll check my local suppliers but if they don't have it I just go back to the cousins UK and get it there now when it comes to General Parts I usually start off with the top three in the U.S Jules Burrell Auto Frey and casker like I said earlier these guys have been around for almost 100 years they have a huge amount of experience and they have huge inventories of Parts if you're in the UK cousins UK has a very large Parts Supply they may actually even be one of the largest Parts suppliers in the world and not only that they're huge advocates for making parts available from the manufacturers to everybody so I like to support them as well and then of course another great supplier is parentwatchparts.com which is a Canadian company they also have a huge inventory of parts and are also awesome guys to do business with now if you're in the US and you're looking for obscure pocket watch Parts there's probably no better place than a website called Dave's watch parts now Dave's an old school guy he's bought up inventories from other smaller watch supply companies that went out of business over the years and he has a huge inventory of stuff and he has more stuff than he can actually put on his website so if you're looking for a pocket watch part for an American pocket watch you can't find it anywhere else Dave will search his inventory and let you know if he has it well that's going to do it for today guys and as always because there's so much more to learn I'll see you in the next video

Channel: Watch Repair Tutorials

Views: 39,720

Keywords: how to identify a watch movement, how to source watch parts, watch repair, watch repair lessons, watch repair tutorial

Id: viq9-V1sv7M

Length: 25min 37sec (1537 seconds)

Published: Sat Sep 10 2022