The Ugly Truth About Real Estate Investing in 2023

this is the BiggerPockets podcast show 772. the people buying now are the people who are buying in like 2009 right like those people were pumped that they bought in 2009 but this is what it looks like this is what it looks like to build wealth it's not pretty now but I think it'll be beautiful in the long run we're always going to be pumped that we bought now like 10 years from now that's and I say that constantly tell me a person you know that bought a house 30 years ago that says I wish I never would have done it what's going on everyone this is David Green joined by my fellow Avengers Rob abasolo and Henry Washington with a special episode for you guys today we're going to be talking about how to analyze deals in 2023 in the challenging Market that we're in and the reason that we are making this show is we actually received a one star review on Apple podcast and we wanted to share that with everyone so they can understand where we're coming from the review is titled it used to be my favorite podcast and the reviewer says I used to listen to the show religiously but it feels like it gets more negative with each new episode I listen to and it makes me real estate investing seem unattainable now that was a bit of a bummer however we understand where the person's coming from right the one star review may not have even been reflective of us it could have just been frustration with the market or it might be that we're shooting straight with everybody we're sort of in a position here where we could tell you that Everything That Glitters Is Gold and real estate is easy and you should quit your job and spend your whole day listening to us replace your active income with passive income but for those of you that are living in the real world you've seen how unattainable that can actually feel so the show is a reflection of what we're seeing in the market and we value Integrity over money we're never going to tell you anything that we don't actually think will work and it can feel like a bummer we get it so in today's show we are going to be replying and responding directly to this concept that real estate feels unattainable and giving you some tips techniques and tricks that work in today's market as well as where expectations could be set and what we are all doing to make deals where other people are missing them before we get to the show today's quick tip is brought to you by me and it is change your expectations when it comes to real estate investing and stop looking at it only for a cash on cash return we are going to talk about the internal rate of return we're going to talk about tax savings we're going to talk about adding Equity buying Equity converting Equity a lot of them are high level stuff when it comes to real estate investing that the Savvy investors are using to still get returns of their money outside of just a straight cash cash return so think about real estate a little bit differently and I think after Today's Show we will have helped you do that anything you guys want to add before we get into it well we'll uncover later that I'm not good at freestyling so uh so listen to the very end to understand this reference but no that is perfect let's get into it Robert Henry Washington welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast first and foremost how are each of you today good good thanks for having me on man that's that's been uh it's always been a dream to be on the show yeah and I know you actually mean that today because you're not wearing a black pocket tea you're wearing a white shirt that's right your camera lighting is brighter than usual you have a bit of an Angelic glow as we're recording here new year new me baby yes wonderful and Henry back in the perp as always I see he's still looking cool how are you today I am fantastic bud happy to be here talking to my buddy Rob and David yeah thank you for the the uh I also ran mentioned there and if people don't understand what I'm talking about go follow us on YouTube you will see more than you were just hearing and all of this will make sense now Today's show is going to be a little different we are venturing into territory that most podcasts are afraid to but because I'm hosting this thing and I fear no evil we're gonna get right into it and direct this we received a review about the show which uh I think Bears repeating with everybody so this came from a it was a review title that was labeled used to be my favorite podcast and the reviewer said I used to listen to the show religiously but it feels like it gets more negative each new episode I listen to and it makes real estate investing seem unattainable and the three of us kind of put our heads together there and thought like this is probably a common theme a lot of people are feeling that they started listening to biggerpocks podcast they started listening to real estate investing online and it was this really shiny blustery object like hey I don't know is blustery good I'm even thinking luster and I just added Bluster so opposite of Bluster lustery object very appealing and you're hearing all these stories of people that quit their job after six months or became multi-millionaires on the power real estate investing and people charge into this thing super excited about real estate investing and then they either get their clock cleaned or they can't find the deal that people explain that they got and they get discouraged and think it's something wrong with them uh or they buy bad deals because they're trying to figure out well if you just buy real estate it's supposed to work and then no one talks about it no one no one jumps up and screams I lost a lot of money making bad decisions they just sort of slink into a hole of Shame and sit there and we want to just have an honest response to this that real estate is harder than I think it's ever been so let's start off with with you Rob what is your overall experience with the market now versus when you first started investing and when was that okay I'm gonna answer that but before I do I just wanna everyone at home to know that we read every single review and we take them all very seriously when someone leaves us a five star review it makes our day when someone leaves us a one star review which is rare but that's what happened here it bumps us out we want to like make sure that the show uh you know relates to to everybody so going back to your question David what was it I was talking about how you never listen to me yeah sorry it's on me what was real estate like when you first started investing and when was that uh okay so I started investing in 2017 um so around six six years ago and back then I I just for me it was the Wild West I think true Wild West for short-term rentals and Airbnb was probably like 2010 to 2014. really probably two thousand like 10 to 2017 like you could have done anything and made money on Airbnb but me getting in that's when people started to sort of figure it out and figure out that you could actually make big money on it right like at the beginning it was sort of people just renting out a bed in their house and they were making like you know extra cash on the side but 2017 is where people were like oh man we could rent an apartment and then put it on Airbnb and make like two or three thousand bucks a month and so at that time it was really really really hard to fail and I I will totally like never say that me getting into this and kind of building what I built was because of any particular genius it wasn't because I I made the right decisions it's just because I happened to get started when I got started not necessarily from a Time standpoint but I just started and figured it out relative to the market that I was in and so I could really walk into any deal and have a large margin of error right the returns from 2017 to 2021 were pretty unreal 2021 was the most money that anyone really ever made in this industry and then 2022 and 2023 that's when we started to see the calibration and things hitting what I think is really back to normal so a lot of people right now are sort of they're a little nervous because they're like oh my gosh there's you're making way less money like overall I would say most hosts are making between 15 to 30 percent less year over year on their properties and that's a big hit right like I can totally understand why anybody would be scared at that metric but I think that that's a lot closer to what it was before 2020 and 2021 so when you sort of like evaluate everything it does seem scary but I just think that we're we're calibrating to like more realistic and normal returns does that make sense yeah 2021 was the era of steroids in baseball there is an asterisk that year it was the best you're ever gonna see now that more people are getting into this like you were saying there's maybe 15 to 30 percent less returns per property but that's because there's probably 15 to 30 percent more people that are getting in this that that money is getting spread around four which is how equilibrium works and we have the option to tell you the truth which is what we have Bigger Pockets believe is the right approach and all three of us that are on the show is integrity is more valuable than money I was just telling someone that earlier today or try to to put some lipstick on that pig and sell you on a dream get you all hyped up get your advertising dollars and then watch you get destroyed when you realize oh it's a lot harder to hit that baseball when you're not on steroids so I think that's one of the reasons 2021 was so good and a lot of people do use that as their uh their Baseline which would be a mistake uh Henry what about you how long have you been investing and what was it like when you started and every time I do a show with Rob where we talk about our our history in investing it's so aligned I also started in 2017 so I've been doing this for just about six years and you know when I look at when I look at what what I was buying back then right we were buying single family small multi-families um we were buying them at about you know uh a 30 to 40 discount and we were either renting mostly renting them and then I would do the occasional uh flip and uh I was getting that about at that time I was getting between five and seven percent interest and so when you hear Rob talk about you know uh he feels like this is getting back to normal that is exactly how I feel I mean now we've gone a little past normal on the interest rate side now because we're we're up above that that six and seven percent you know for investors anyway getting getting loans but uh it has felt more like a reset than a than a you know a crash or you know what some people are saying and so yeah it's been it's been a reset and and I think there's a there's a caveat to like my strategy versus Rob's short-term rental strategy and it's that I've always been trained to look off market so I've been building you know systems and processes to help me find off-market deals before I even knew that that's what I had to do that's just how I learned this business and and so if my deal flow hasn't changed from then to now I I get the same amount of deals for the same amount of effort um because it looking off Market you're you're more buying situations than you're buying houses and there's always going to be a situation where people are willing and or need to sell at a discount so that hasn't changed but what has changed is um is kind of the disposition strategy right because the market is gonna it's gonna reward you in some way shape or form it's either going to reward you through appreciation cash flow or equity and so in when I first got started I was holding a lot because it was fairly easy to cash flow I could get deep discounts I have I'm in a market where I can get fairly decent rents and I'm in a market where the entry price the purchase prices aren't through the roof right I'm not in a California or or a Florida Texas New York read them and so being in Arkansas I can get good entry prices and so I was almost every deal would make sense from a rental perspective so we kept a lot but then 2021 hit and I started doing the math on well yeah I could rent this and make a few hundred dollars a month net cash flow or I could sell it and make 90 grand I just bought it you know six months ago right it was really hard to hold those and so we were capitalizing on what the market you know in sports David we say you take what the defense gives you right the defense was saying I'm going to give you a big bag of cash for this property and it's going to take you 15 to 20 years of cash flow to even get close to the amount of money you're going to make if you sell it and so we pivoted by selling a lot in 2021 and I use that as a time to trim the fat in my portfolio right so I had properties that were cashed on a little bit that I didn't love we would sell them if I had properties that were more maintenance intensive than I had hoped we would sell them because we could get paid for selling them in that market and so now I would say that the defense is telling us uh well you're not going to make a ton if you sell it and your cash flow is going to be a little difficult right so now it's we have to really pay attention to how we're analyzing the deals and then make a call and mostly that call right now is am I willing to make a little bit of cash flow or break even in hopes that when interest rates come down that we get a bump in the market and appreciation goes up or do I flip it and make you know 20 30 grand right so it's the same game but it's the root the the disposition gets a little different that's a great way of looking at today's episode we are talking about in today's market against today's defense what is it giving you and how do you take advantage of it and there are times when like if we're going to stick with like a basketball analogy here where you're playing a team with a terrible defense and your goal is to score as much points as you can and get your starters out of the game this was a Golden State Warriors for years like Stephen Curry didn't even play the fourth quarter uh and that was a it gave them a better opportunity to have a better longer season because they could rest their Stars they could score a lot of points teams didn't know how to guard them then there's times where the Market's going to give you a very difficult defense like now where you feel like sometimes it almost might feel like it's impossible to score can you run the defense ragged for the whole shot clock and you make him tired so that later in the game you have an opportunity can you get fouled and start to just try to get into the bonus there's something that can be done but if your expectation was uh we're gonna make three passes and get a wide open three-pointer by one of the best Shooters in the world and if that doesn't work well then basketball isn't one working you're not adapting well and real estate is is uh cyclical economic Cycles are by definition sick Google there are times where it's hard to buy real estate there are times where it's easy there are times where we're printing a lot of money there's signs that we're in a recession or a depression there's gonna be different defenses that we're going against and I think your example there is really really good so let's use that as a jumping off point Rob what is your preferred method of investing in terms of like which asset class yes yes short-term rentals I don't think any not much of a secret there but um it is starting to move a little bit into I'm doing a lot more stuff this year I think and this will still feed into short-term rentals for sure but I'm definitely like really heavying up in the sub 2 creative Finance space uh because for me that's sort of the solution to to all the problems that we're seeing right now with interest rates and everything all right so let's talk about expectations what were they when you started and what are your expectations right now that you're investing in a tougher Market yeah Okay cool so here's one other thing that I wanted to say about all this is that like I hate to even say this uh maybe we'll cut it out but like I feel like the last five years like real estate sort of was like a get rich quick scheme like everyone was making money I would say in the short-term rental space specifically your experience yes but like legitimately you could make a lot of money but most veterans I think know and understand that all real estate is not get rich quick it's like get wealthy over time and then there will be Pockets within the timeline that like you can you can make a lot of money right and so for short-term rentals that's what it was and now you can still make really good money personally I think so I'll walk you through a deal in a second I just think it's not like I don't think you're gonna retire off of one property um and I've personally anecdotally have never paid myself really for my short-term rental properties so whether my portfolio makes 10K or 7K it doesn't affect me too much because it all just goes back into all the properties that I'm buying but all to say these days here's sort of like the cash on cash that I'm looking for traditionally over the last five years I was looking for like a 30 a 30 to 50 cash on cash return which I don't even like putting that out there this is not really something I would ever tell anybody listening this like go get a 50 it's ridiculous it's just how it was but let me let me jump in there it's that's what you were getting because when you compared all the deals that you were looking at the top top deers deals could provide a 30 to 50 return and because you had a really good deal funnel you had a really good analysis system you were good at what you do you were only buying the best deals which provided that that does not mean the person who's brand new is going to step in and to use the basketball analogy get the same wide open look that you're getting correct yes thank you for that that's why I'm like I don't even want to put it out there but like you know we bought a um like a chalet in the Smoky Mountains we I think all in we paid 50k for Furnishings down payment everything we grossed 83 000 the first year profited like 58 I don't know something like that right so that one was like a perfect deal but these days it's just not like that anymore and I think a lot of people want to like sort of achieve that but nowadays I've really I've tampered it more and more over the last year last at the beginning of last year I was cool with like a 20 to 25 percent I was settling for a 20 right now uh a 15 cash on cash return is what I'm looking for when I very conservatively underwrite all my short-term rental deals and that's a really big change from when I started right like that's nowhere near the same return profile but I'm also really just uh padding my my underwriting to just allow like I'm trying to make it even if it is a let's say a 25 or 30 percent I'm purposely adding so much stuff in my underwriting to try to get it to 15 just so I'm like all right doomsday scenario can I get a 15 if the answer is yes I'll move forward with it if it's if it's less than that I won't do it all right so you're still taking a cash flow heavy perspective where you want to cash on cash return of 15 that's still the the most important metric that you're looking at when you're analyzing deals okay well that's you know there's more to it than that David uh I mean look I think you know when you're when you're analyzing a property right it's not just the cash flow you have to look at the overall Roi of the property and that Roi is going to be calculated between cash flow Debt Pay down tax deductions and appreciation so when you factor all those things in it usually doubles roughly like your cash on cash I believe I'd have to look at my calculator so am I okay with like a like me personally do as I say not as I do I'm fine with like a 10 like really at the end of the day if it's the right property right location right value ad yeah yeah because the ROI is going to be much higher than that on if I ever sold it in like five to ten years right but Baseline like if I if I were just looking at it from a cash on cash perspective which I think nowadays I'm not but for someone getting into it think of 15 is a pretty good metric with the way interest rates are yeah there's a good point in there when you first start learning about real estate we use Roi return on investment As the metric that we teach people to look at which is in our world really what we're saying is Cash on cash return that's the technical term for what we're describing we say Roi but the I in in Roi is investment and we're talking about the return on the cash we put in the deal not the overall investment because it makes you money in other ways too the the more accurate way of measuring your Roi is actually called the internal rate of return irr that's something worth Googling it's something to go onto Bigger Pockets and take a look at this is a metric that syndicators use because they're looking at the return on a property if you own it for five years seven years ten years and they're including the cash on cash return that we just described the loan pay down the equity that you may have created by buying it under market value as well as the equity that you may have created by value add to the property increasing the rent amounts makes it worth more money when you go to exit there's lots of ways real estate makes money tax advantages irr really takes all of those into consideration so when you hear someone like me say it's not all about cash flow that doesn't mean cash flow doesn't matter it means it is a piece of it'd be like saying well it's not all about how well you can score that doesn't mean scoring doesn't matter in sports it's it's there's more to it that's that's obviously a part of it so when it comes Rob to the deals you're looking at where are you what are you starting financially how do you tend to fund most of the deals you're buying over the last couple of years we have been doing OPM other people's money and working with individual investors we have since switched to that and now we're doing fundraising with raw milk Capital we haven't really launched it yet but we're going to be doing a fund and working on more value ads because I think that that's where the real equity and appreciation will come in into play for 2023 is taking like a dilapidated RV Park making it sprucing it up making a lot nicer doubling the income getting a lot of value and basically forcing appreciation that way that's kind of where I'm moving is out of single family Acquisitions into much bigger developments and projects all right Henry moving on to you here um when it comes to your expectations what is your approach right now to real estate investing in the stuffer Market yeah when we first started out back in 2017 I remember um you know I was a big Bigger Pockets Brandon Turner guy nice subtle dig there let's hear more about your ex how she compares to me you know and so you know Brandon was the you know hundred dollars a door after all expenses right and and so that's how I evaluated and determined if the rental property was going to make sense I wanted a uh seven percent to ten percent cash on cash return and I wanted a hundred dollars a door net cash flow you're talking after expenses after vacancy after capex all the expenses guys not just the mortgage taxes insurance but um and I'm and I'm Uber conservative on um my expenses numbers I over budget for my expenses um because then when I know I see a hundred dollars net cash flow I'm probably going to make more than that but um that's so that's how we were analyzing deals back then and uh now things are a little different but not much um because back then I didn't have like um the consistent deal flow that I have now right I was building those processes right and so now as the processes are well established and I have great deal flow I understand my market better and have some there's some predictability with what I what I see coming in the door I'm a little more you know greedy's not the right word but I want my numbers to be better right I'm a little more picky right and so um for for me we are looking at if I'm going to buy a single and hold it as a rental I want my singles to pay me like a multi and so I want two to three hundred dollars net cash flow per door on a single on a multi I'll take 100 to 200 net cash flow per door I would like a 10 cash on cash return but if it's a multi it doesn't have to give me a 10 cash on cash return because the multis are just so much more beneficial both from a cash flow perspective also from a tax perspective and then from a value perspective there the the value of those goes up faster well the friends are but are going up by a hundred or a hundred dollars a year and you've got three doors versus one door that exponentially starts to become more valuable over time is that what you're getting at absolutely yes so um the analysis as far as as how I do it hasn't changed but what I'm looking for or what I'm willing to take on a property has changed and I would say that that's what everything was up until you know 2023 and the interest rates going the way they are because those High interest rates are eating up that cash flow and so it is a whole lot more difficult to find those properties where I'm going to get you know two three hundred four hundred dollars five hundred dollars net cash flow per door because I'm paying so much more for the money uh to buy that property and so the the you know the game's a little different right now I I I am willing to take less cash flow if the property is in a a neighborhood that I feel like is going to appreciate especially if that property is a multi-family again for those for those same reasons because the the the golden days you know Rob Rob's golden days we had ours too right before these interest rates the golden days where you could buy something as long as you were getting it at a 30 discount is if you stuck a tenant in it you were going to cash flow and it just doesn't work like that anymore and so we do find ourselves making decisions on do I keep this property and you know essentially break even um or do I sell this and make a smaller profit than I would typically like to and uh those are deals I wouldn't even have considered because the defense did make you back when you started it was the 15 to 30 percent cash on cash return that Rob's talking about the the two or three hundred dollars per door that Henry's talking about those were like if you probably took a super nerdy approach and you looked at um the statistical what's the what's the word the standard deviation uh and you looked at every deal you compared these were in the upper echelon of deals and so that's what you'd go for you're comparing the deal you can get to the deal you've seen before and you're looking for the one you've seen before in today's market there aren't those amazing cash flow numbers that we're seeing because there's so much competition for these Assets Now it almost becomes is it better to get my seven percent return that Henry said or nothing before it was is it better to get seven percent or wait for a 10 to 12 right and going back to the basketball analogy here when you first get the ball the first thing you look at is can I get all the way the rim right there's nobody in there I can beat my guy at the dribble it's a layup that's of course that's a 30 Roi you're gonna take that every time but as defenses get better that's not an option they have a seven foot Rudy gobert in there who's waiting for you and that's not going to happen anymore you can't beat your guy off the dribble now it starts to okay can I come off of a screen and hit a jump shot it's going to be tougher but it's better than a shot clock violation and not getting anything off that's what we're just describing in these situations and if you take the expectation from five years ago and you apply it to the market you're in now you're never going to shoot the ball you're going to have shot clock violations over and over and over and you're going to lose the game by virtue of not taking a shot or Rudy gobert is going to throw it back in your face yeah that's the other thing that's like the loss right like you just you tried to go after that great deal and you got sucked into buying a forty thousand dollar property in a terrible neighborhood that you never should have bought because the cash on cash return turn looked great when it comes to financing Henry what's your financing strategy right now yeah absolutely so back in I would say from 2017 on until about six months ago uh my financing strategy was using commercial loans from small local banks I built relationships with small local banks and I could take down deals if I had to put my if I had to put money in from a down payment perspective the benefit to the small local banks is I could bring that money from somewhere else so I was either taking Equity from another property and using a line of credit to pay those or sometimes I would borrow the down payments from other investors and and pay them an interest uh High interest for doing that so yeah I would I would or sometimes I would get the only owner to carry back the down payments right and so we'd owner finance at least a down payment portion and that's how we were taking deals down but as interest rates have gone up and has the and there's been tightening amongst Banks and lending and the criteria has been a little more strict for them and it's harder to make deals casual part of the reason small local banks want to invest in our loan to Real Estate Investors is because they can buy great deals that have great cash flow and as we stated that's not always the case and so it's been tougher to get the local banks to loan uh on on deals if the numbers aren't fantastic and so now we've shifted and we're typically taking down deals with private or hard money at a higher interest rate and then we'll refinance them with either a small local bank or a non-qm product and still that allows me to take down deals without having to put a ton of my capital in them but it's a more expensive route to take because the interest is higher plus you're basically closing the loan twice but it's it's a way we found to be successful because we're still uh we're still very very strict on our underwriting now with the uh with the I don't know the right word to use here the decreased expectations on mostly the cash on cash return from Real Estate are are each of you buying less real estate now or are you buying the same amount or more I'll start with you Henry I'm buying I would say the same to more actually I would say more we're doing more flips this year than we've done in any year and last year I bought more doors in one year than I I'd ever purchased so we're we're doing more Rob uh I am doing more yeah I want to do more like I'm really addicted to creative Finance sub 2 right now people have been sending me deals and I'm just like yeah why not so yeah it's my goal I mean I I want to take down a lot this year I want this to be the biggest year that I I am I operate in and the reason that it's actually been working out relatively well so far is that you know uh I guess there's that free I don't was it Buffett Buffet is that his name Warren Buffet no I'm just kidding uh Warren Buffett he was talking he said like when there's blood in in the streets oh gosh I don't want to mess this up when the tide goes down you see who's been swimming naked yeah no no uh uh okay I know for sure he said this he was like when people are scared by when people are oh what you're describing is when others are fearful be greedy when others are greedy be fearful oh you see and that's why that's why we pay the big bucks David okay so with that one specifically everyone is so scared to get into real estate right now so I can actually make offers and get them accepted and it's a beautiful thing the property that I'm buying in uh in Denver right now it's a triple Dome home it was on Zillow gone wild they got 25 000 likes on it traditionally I would have had to have like offered 200k over that like a year ago and today I mean I offered a little bit over just because I knew that there was another offer and I wanted I think I offered 25k over and I got it and I was like wow this feels good it feels good to actually like only be competing with one other person versus 20 other people and so for me I'm like I'm coming in like oh yeah everyone's scared give this one to me baby but on top of that with creative finance and sub 2 yeah man I'm just gonna be picking up as much as I possibly can because if you can assume someone else's mortgage and get like a three percent interest rate I mean literally almost any deal works it's like it's really quite a magical thing so useless fact here you mentioned blood in the streets did you know that high heel shoes were originally created for men to wear that were butchers for walking around in the butcher shop so that they would not get blood all over the bottom of their shoes wow I had no idea I did not know that I was wondering why you kept a pair of yeah a pair of high heels in your car it's a secret to these calf muscles actually it's like I'm always walking down a hill at all times it's also why we never let the camera go below my waist when we were recording I'm not sure if the audience is ready for that I just got an image of strong hairy calves and high heels right now it's a great way to describe it I put a uh on my Instagram story the other day I put a little meme that had like like 25 year old guy that works his cabs out seven days a week in the gym and they're like kind of skinny and it's like 42 year old dad of three kids yes like massive thighs and it's so true I don't understand bad yes all right moving on here now Rob I understand you have a deal in mind that we are going to break down for all the people joining us on this podcast to hear how deals are being analyzed so uh first off tell me like where is this deal what is it is it your triple Dome deal that you just mentioned it is it is so it's in Castle Rock uh which is about 15 20 minutes away south of Denver it's in between Denver and Colorado Springs and it's beside the Rocky Mountains and Breckenridge so it's kind of like in this little spot that's really you should call this The casterly Rock yes right yes you're like Arab you'd be named because we always give stupid names to Airbnb properties do you know what that is from Rob yes but for everyone at home you don't know what that is would you like to share it that is that is the go that is the goat reference the Game of Thrones yes that's uh it's a location in Game of Thrones called casterly Rock and so like you would get a lot of like people would recognize that and book it I think you should go with that okay that's cool triple Dome has a good ring to it also but what do you like about that location okay so like I said it's in between like a lot of different areas so my buying criteria in general is buying near National Parks state parks eclectic towns and vacation destinations those are my four buckets and this one is sort of in between all of them right so it's in between Denver which is a really big metropolitan area and the regulations in Denver are pretty strict so I already feel like the overall competition is on the lower end because it's so hard to get a functional Airbnb in Denver but it's also near Breckenridge and it's also near the Rocky Mountains so that's State Park uh sorry National Park but then there's also a state park it's called Roxboro state park that's right next to Castle Rock and then an Eclectic town because you really I wouldn't really classify this one as that the boulders north of Denver that's kind of eclectic that's that's near Castle Rock as well so it's sort of in this like this booming little spot where like I have so many Target markets of people that are going to be going through Castle Rock just to get to some of these areas that I Told You So from a location standpoint it checks the boxes it's also a very unique stay um if you're on YouTube we're b-rolling all of this for you to see it's a beautiful home and what's really special about it is that it's got 360 degree views of mountains everywhere and uh everyone has gone crazy about this house on the internet like the Silicon wild comments were really really crazy so I just feel like it's going to be a really really amazing portfolio piece for my direct booking website Nick sleeps um I think it's going to be a very instagramable experience and so this is one of those like if I build it they'll come type of things it's already been built but I'm going to be building the brand and everything like that so I think this one to me has a lot of potential but I was a little bit you know there there are some ways that I underwrote this to kind of like make sure that it fit my criteria all right so how much are you buying this for and how is the deal structured okay so it is a conventional loan um it is a 5.99 interest rate actually which is not bad I had to pay about eight thousand dollars worth of points to get it down to that rate so I'm really happy with it um it was a million dollars and I bid a million 25. I would have probably gotten it for a million but someone else made an offer and this the we got the Intel that it was over asking so I just went I was like man I don't know how much over asking was I'm gonna go a million 25 and I beat them so I guess I went over like 10 000 or something like that I'm not really sure um and I am putting unfortunately 30 down because I had to do that to get it to not be a jumbo loan so that I could basically it's what I could qualify for conventionally you know to the banks I'm a poor man even though I have successful businesses but I haven't had successful businesses for two tax years so you know I still have to kind of like Cobble together finances to get it all approved but I'll be putting down 30 percent um I'm hoping to squeak out a 15 percent cash on cash return on this particular property all right and then was there a subject to element to it no not on this one this is just a straight per I saw it I was like I want this house I'm gonna buy it and I made the offer and somehow got it now if you had Professional Property Management 20 25 would this deal still pencil technically yes this would this would be much closer to oh actually no yeah it would still be an 11 the way that I've underwritten it I think I'm going to make a 20 cash on cash return and with a 20 management fee it would be an 11.7 percent cash on cash return now if this ends up being you know kind of middle of the road so if I get this to a 15 cash on cash return like I was thinking in a management company right let's imagine let's assume that blue gems isn't doing this for free for me then it would still be a 7.5 cash on cash return so it would still work I would you know it would it would not it would cash flow I think this deal would still cash flow 2500 bucks a month and what were you adjusting on your calculator there to determine if it would work my management fee so you asked if I had a professional manager in it at 20 that's what I'm putting in to see how it changes cash flow and it would bring me down to a seven percent but if I remove that then I go up to a 16.2 percent so from 7 to 16 by eliminating the management so there's a point there for everyone listening who is running their deals saying I don't want to be I want passive income I don't want to be a short-term rental operator that could be why you're seeing your competition moving on deals and buying them and you're not because that one number made it from a pretty solid deal to a most people are passing on a seven percent return like is a little bit more elbow grease you're gonna have to put into these deals in many cases and Rob's one of the best in the business when it comes to these so the odds of somebody else getting a deal this good and having the vision to to feel confident that it's going to work are going to be lower than it would be with Rob so uh part of what we're describing here is that with real estate becoming tougher the passive element of it is passing away right maybe there's a play in words we could get into that like there's passive has passed ooh is that our thumbnail title yeah passive is dead because real estate is cyclical there probably will come a time where it will go back to what it was like before we don't know when that's going to be but it was much easier to get these returns than just hand a property manager to manage it than what it is right now I want to say that you're absolutely right on this and everyone at home re-listen to that part right because a lot of us are getting into real estate let's say short-term rentals because that's what we're talking about for me specifically you're gonna buy like 10 properties and then 20 and then 30 like eventually like me I have 35 right now and it you will no longer be able to self-management manage those properties you're going to have to give them up uh I started my property management company right like I I went into blue gems because I was like I need a solution for this but the everyday operator you will have to give that over to a management company and the moment you do that it will shrink your returns dramatically so that's a really good point David I mean that's like something that people don't think about if you're good at this you're going to be very successful you're going to scale up like that and you're then you're going to have a management problem meaning you're gonna have to pay someone to manage everything my advice not that anyone asked for it is if you're going to get into this asset class expect to manage it yourself for three to five years do a very good job rents increase over time Revenue increases over time your reviews increase over time your systems get better then you can you've earned the right to hand it over to a property manager now they can take over and it becomes passive you just can't have the expectation of starting it for day one and that's sort of a theme that we're seeing throughout Today's Show I'm noticing is you're just extending Your Horizon from when you expect that jackpot Henry had mentioned several deals like right off the bat we're buying them at 70 percent of what they're worth we're getting this kind of cash flow I could either get rid of it make a bunch of money or keep it make some money but I had options it's slowly moving into I can still make the same amount but I'm not making it right off the bat I'm having to extend and I think that's a good uh advice for people to extend their expectations now Henry same question to you you have a deal picked out here um so yes I have a deal so you know we're we're moving from The Amazing place of casterly rock to my to Sleepy Hollow my little town of Bentonville and and uh yeah so I'm I'm buying a single family home and it is uh I'm buying it for I know that what is a discount but I am in the position of trying to figure out which exit strategy is going to make the most sense given the current market conditions and so I think it's a good deal to talk about right so I'm paying a hundred and seventy thousand dollars for it it's going to need some work uh in order for it to either be flipped or be long-term rented or be short-term rented and so I am literally in the decision process right now trying to figure out which one of those exit strategies we're going to do now I'm buying it regardless of of like this is a purchase regardless of exit strategy but this is that analysis that we're talking about trying to figure out what's what's the best strategy given the market and your current financial situation and so um I'm in a position where I can put about 40 000 in it and I can flip it I can put maybe 50 55 000 in it and short-term rent it or I can put about 30 000 in it and make it a rental right and if we if we rent it out I could probably get I could probably get eighteen hundred a month and so I would be in the neighborhood of breaking even if I did that now there's the reason I would consider breaking even for this is because Bentonville is just such a strong Market with Walmart headquartered there and um and though even though it wouldn't cash flow right now I'm gonna get a big bump in appreciation because Walmart's building their brand new home office facility they've got to bring people here it's still a tourist destination for mountain bikers right now there's not a ton of hotels and so people need uh places to stay if I wanted to do a short-term rental and so that like the and I think once interest rates go down it's going to force more people into the market and it's going to force the values up right and so there are situations where where I'm ready to where I'm willing to break even because of what my you know analysis tells me about what could be coming in the future right and that that is not something every new investor is going to be able to do it's going to involve you being an expert in your market and understanding what's coming and doing the research right to make those kinds of decisions um and so right now I am leaning towards I am leaning towards going ahead and selling it and the reason I'm leaning towards going ahead and selling it is because I have a pipeline of deals there are more deals coming I'm not I don't have a shortage of deals to buy and so uh this one I I don't love the short the long-term rental cash flow numbers and I'm not confident I'm not I'm not super confident in the short-term rental numbers because of the the specific neighborhood that this uh home is in I don't know that it would produce the returns that my other short-term rentals in Bentonville will and so I'm not I'm not super comfortable with it so I'm doing some research talking to my Airbnb property manager seeing how what's his confidence level on what he thinks we can rent it for I think I think if we did a short-term rental we we pushed that that monthly income up to about uh anywhere between uh two thousand and three thousand dollars a month so um it could be great it could not work out well and so what I I am confident in with a hundred percent certainty is that I can put forty thousand dollars into it and sell it for uh and sell it for two hundred and ten thousand dollars no sweat uh and so that is sorry not 210 I said 210 it's not 210 tell it for 275 000 no sweat right and so that is this that the that is the strategy I am absolutely the most confident in and in this market you're getting punished for making mistakes and so I'm probably going to lean toward the thing I'm the most confident in there's a couple points I think worth highlighting there as well and some of this comes from uh James dainard well Jimmy made a point on the state of the market podcast that I thought was really good and worth repeating here um Jimmy had mentioned that the ROI if you're looking at cash on cash return is nominal or non-existent in a lot of deals however he flips a lot of houses and the return on his investment when he looks at flipping can be incredible right he could get 20 30 40 50 return on the money that he put in a deal especially if he's leveraging other people's money on a flip now that's not passive income that's active income okay so we usually don't compare these two options because when you keep real estate and you get a hundred dollars a month but you bought it with 200 000 in equity you still made 200 000 at that time you just didn't make it in the form of cash flow which can be misleading and what that had been thinking about is so many people are listening to us they want our lives because they don't like the job they have uh Henry you at one point were doing uh corporate real estate for Walmart rob you were doing uh professional voice acting and marketing and uh overall debauchery but the thing I was a cop right I'll sleep in like three hours a night on a good night just looking for every day I woke up like when's the next time I could sleep I was just obsess with like when can I get sleep we didn't like the lives we had real estate gave us a better life if you're in that position it has been previously uh sort of like spoken to you that the Evangelist for Real Estate would say if you get enough cash flow you can replace your active income with passive income you can quit your job you can move on to something better that is what is becoming very hard however if you quit your job and got into flipping houses and you made seventy five thousand dollars a year flipping two different homes okay that could be a job you like more than the one you don't like doesn't involve you sitting in commute traffic you can work from home your schedule becomes more flexible now there's some downsides to that you're taking a little bit more risk uh there might be a learning curve in the beginning but if you're somebody who's really good with real estate you're a Henry you're looking at deals all the time and you're like this thing just doesn't add up right now for cash flow but I could make 45 Grand flipping the contract to somebody else or fixing and flipping and moving into something different you do have an opportunity to get the ROI you would need to replace your job doing this it's a different way of looking at these opportunities and it's forcing yourself to stop looking at only cash on cash return it's looking at many ways that real estate can benefit you that will open up these opportunities let's say each of you to this well I'm sort of now just deeming the new approach to looking at real estate investing I I agree I think I think we got to get back into the habit of saying hey real estate is a long long game and you know some sometimes there will be good years sometimes there will be more normal years like now but at the end of the day it's like you're just pushing the ball forward like I was thinking about this as Henry was saying it earlier the golden years hey yeah these were the golden years but I genuinely think not to be too uh you know Andy from the office but I do think that like 20 30 years from now we're gonna look at now and be like these are the golden years like this is it because we're all good at what we do and we're all going to continue to crush it every single year because we love doing this absolutely I couldn't agree more I tell my students this all the time I'm like look investing is about buying something for less than it's worth adding value to it and then capitalizing on its new value right uh even in the stock market right you want to buy when a stock is down hold it until it goes up right and then you've made a return on your investment this is when the wealth is built guys this is what it looks like right you have opportunity to buy and though you're not going to make money immediately I think for the people who are actively buying right now five years from now even the people buying now are the people who are buying in like 2009 right like those people were pumped that they bought in 2009. so um this is what it looks like this is what it looks like to build wealth it's not pretty now but I think it'll be beautiful um in the long run we're always going to be pumped that we bought now like 10 years from now that's and I say that constantly tell me a person you know that bought a house 30 years ago that says I wish I never would have done it yeah the uh well do you remember we had Janice on like a month ago and she was like yeah I bought my first house in La for 180 000 or something like that and we were like what in 2004 like we were so like perplexed by this tell me a person who bought a house 30 years ago that remembers what was in the inspection report and how stressful it was right right yeah that's true but also tell me a person that bought that house 30 years ago that thought that they were getting a great deal and they were they were buying it for less than what it's worth most people believe they're overpaying for Real Estate at the time they buy it we always think we could have got the deal better it's time that really creates the wealth in real estate and we sabotage this when we're like I need to get a I need to get a dunk four seconds into the shot clock before I put some work into breaking down the defense or move the ball around now Henry you made a great Point real estate is about buying something for less than it's worth making it worth more and then capitalizing on that so from my framework I would call that buying Equity forcing equity and then having an exit strategy now the extra strategy could be holding it as a rental it could be selling it and turning the equity that you created in that deal into Cash putting that cash back into the next deal there's lots of ways we can do it but on the uh from the perspective of how do we make something a good deal if it doesn't start as a good deal I'm going to ask each of you what advice do you have for taking a deal like like Rob's uh Castle Rock property that other people passed on and making it a good deal and then Henry I asked you the same thing you mentioned creative financing that's one way I think right off the bat that like you said if you get something in a three percent interest rate everything works right yeah yeah I mean that I think hold on let me think about that for a second go to Henry first I'm just kidding uh no we could do that I don't mind Rob is not a freestyle rapper I will tell you guys that right now no no I am I no you're not well I was trying to think of I'm trying to yes listen you had to open your computer and pull up an analysis that is the opposite of freestyle it's like 25 takes well you were asking me to take you through the numbers I would go home get to the lab grab a pencil make it suspenseful come back and hit us with an earful did you just hit us with an eight mile battle rap scene yes because that's something Rob doesn't do Henry on the other hand he belongs in a cipher Rob I feel that that deal is already good so you're like how do you make it work and I'm like I did but you bought a deal other people didn't see so you saw something in it that made that deal work for you what do you think that was you mentioned the experience you mentioned creating a unique way of marketing the property you there are things you're doing that other people that just said run the numbers on air DNA doesn't work past it yes it doesn't work on air DNA at all I think air DNA has this one at like sixty thousand dollars I think it's going to gross between 175 and 200 000 so the way that I made this work for myself is I just did a little bit of prospecting right when you look at the the market analysis there are no unique dome homes there are no unique Homes at all in this area and so so many people would look at this deal and pass on it because it's scary there are no numbers to support this where I'm coming in I'm saying like I'm going to be the Pioneer in this space specifically I will be the comp that people look to copy basically for the rest of time so ardenna is comparing this to a track house that looks like all the other houses around it exactly but what I know is that a unique property can can basically demand a 300 premium on a typical property so whereas a typical property might only get 100 bucks a night this would get 300 bucks a night on the opposite end end of it now really this property will get seven hundred to a thousand dollars a night I think whereas most people running the numbers think that it would get like 250 so it works for no one else but it works for me because I know I know what I have here but experience is the reason that I know that now see Henry my job is to bring the greatness out of Rob that's there that he doesn't know he has right so Rob I'm going to lead you back to some more greatness what about the hotel that you bought that was being used as a traditional hotel that you are turning into a series of short-term rentals did you make something there yeah same thing that one was a basically that one was approached to me someone approached me that they're like hey do you want to buy my hotel and he gave us a really good interest rate I think we got it for like 2 2.75 percent three percent but the entire Hotel needed a remodel and I think I want to say that the owner had already started to remodel but it just was so much work that he was like you know I'm just gonna sell it to someone that can actually like finish out the job he sold it to us and so we're getting to basically capture the opportunity of remodeling an entire Hotel granted it's a lot of work right it's active just like you said but the opposite side of it is that this like Hotel will be worth like double or triple what we paid for it so you're adding value through a rehab you're adding value through putting each of those hotels on Airbnb VRBO not just a traditional hotel that someone's going to have to look up in the Yellow Pages and you're adding value in this case through seller financing correct right that is a great example of you made a deal by those things that other people would have just looked at it saw that cash a cash return said nope or saw that it needs too much work and passed on it yep wow wow I'm so smart thanks I told you there's greatness in you rob we just I just gotta pull it out of you I just got to be willing to Freestyle a little bit yeah and you got to go through mom's spaghetti to get there but that's okay we're all gonna do that together Henry to you what are some ways that you've been able to make deals instead of just looking for deals yeah I can totally freestyle that's why I wear black so you can't see the mom's spaghetti on my shirt uh I so so part of the ways that I make deals are um through not looking through one exit strategy lens so I have learned the exit strategies of a fix and flipper I've learned the access strategies of a Buy and Hold render I've learned the exit strategies of a short term uh short-term rental and that allows me to look at a deal from multiple perspectives and so I'm not just looking like hey this doesn't meet my cash on cash return or my cash flow numbers as a rental and pass on it right it allows me to look at a deal from multiple angles and see how I can monetize that so like with the deal we talked about I know that I can make money on it at least three ways there could be a fourth I could probably assign that contract to somebody as well if I wanted to right and so I can make deals just by being educated and versed in multiple exit strategies the other way that I think somebody who's new who may not feel that that's something that they can do is you can make deals by being creative with what you're looking for and you can do this even on the market and I still do this I will look at deals um and we and and I will I am looking specifically for how can I add value well where can I add the most value with spending the least amount of money right and so when I'm looking for a deal like if I'm looking and I can't find a duplex anywhere or a multi-family anywhere then I'm going to start looking at single families that I can easily turn into a duplex or a multi-family either by converting a garage or by um converting like an exterior building that already has so some of these houses that you'll find they've got a shed with plumbing and electrical in it well it's not that hard to convert that into a living space right um because you've got the foundation and you've got the some of the structure garages are an easy way sometimes you can split up a house especially if it's a split Wing House meaning that the master bedroom's on one side of the house and the the bet the other bedrooms in the bathroom are on another it's fairly easy to turn one side of that into a unit and another side into a unit now it takes some creativity it's going to take some money some of those things but you can make a deal um and add max value with doing a little bit of work what I've typically done in the flip space is find houses that have uh and we talked about this in a previous episode is find houses that have um like sun rooms uh or big uh big rooms that aren't technically heated in cold square footage uh as and this works for garages as well you can take a an HVAC return and pop it into that room and now that space is heated and cooled all you've got to do is add the flooring insulate the walls and now you've got an additional room and rooms are going to add value and so just because you can look at a deal and it's at its current state and say this deal doesn't pencil but will it pencil if you add a bedroom will it pencil if you add a bedroom and a bathroom under the same roof and how inexpensively can you do that I just converted a laundry room for a house into a bathroom which included the laundry in the bathroom the house was on a crawl space it cost me about five thousand dollars to do that but now instead of a 3 three bed one bath house I have a three bed two bath house which allowed me to take the bathroom that was a whole bath and close off the doorway to that whole bathroom and then open a doorway from one of the bedrooms into that Hall bathroom and now I created a primary Suite because I added a bathroom in the laundry room because the laundry room was oversized right and so I was able to sell that property for about thirty thirty five thousand dollars more than I would have without that extra bathroom because there was more demand for it and because it was uh you know there were two bathrooms and a primary Suite it's a much more desirable property and it cost me five grand to do that that's a great great advice people should go back and listen to that again if you're trying to figure out how to make these things work you're hearing it here the defense is tough but that doesn't mean you can't win just gotta take a different approach last question to each of you we are what I would call Professional investors professional real estate people this is what we do full time we look for deals Henry you mentioned that you have a very big funnel that you've created that you're looking at stuff Rob has an entire network he's talking about having you know Rob Capital that he's going to be creating you each have audiences of people that follow you that can bring you deals right we have this platform that not everyone has for the person who's not a professional investor that wants to make money through real estate but they're not leaving their day job anytime soon or their skill set would not work in the environment that we operate in what advice do you have for that person to build wealth through real estate and what expectations are reasonable for them in this market yeah so here's two things I think you need to be the education is is vastly important more now than ever so before right and so I talked about educating myself on multiple exit strategies I think everyone needs to be doing that you can't be so laser focused on one strategy um because you're probably leaving opportunities on the table and then you have to for every investor focus on what's the lowest common denominator in real estate it's always going to be a deal you've got to have a good deal right now we talked about ways that you can make something that isn't a good deal at face value look like a good or become a good deal based on how you can creatively add value to that property but you've got to be able to know what does a good deal look like in your market and then you've got to pick a way to find those good deals all three of us we have a way that we like to find our good deals and we kind of go all in on whatever that strategy is so I can't tell you know every random investor strategy they should use or what's the best strategy it's really they all work but you've got to a know what a good deal is for you and then you have to pick a strategy to know how to get go find it and I think the the better you get at um analyzing and underwriting and looking for those deals the easier it's going to become to to monetize those deals in the future and so I'm not going to give you the traditional answer of go house hack that's a great way to go you know you know make money in this market I think that educate yourself on as many strategies as you can find a way to find good deals I just happen to find my way is looking off market right Rob has his way David has his way but you've got the more you do it the more at deals you analyze the more deals you underwrite you're going to be able to start finding those Diamonds in the Rough finding those Gems or creating or making the value and so I just hope I just want people to be able to focus on one to two strategies of finding deals and then you just go all in I call it relentless consistency in pursuing that strategy until it yields results what about you average person not quitting their day job wants to make money through real estate what approach should they take and what expectations should they have um for me I'm I always say this like you got to throw darts at the wall right and I think you got to try a few things um I like the idea of going all in I did pretty early on I think you got to try a few things before you go all in though you know what I mean I think if you let's say that you want to try flipping houses you try that and you're not very good at it uh maybe you don't go all in because that may not be the thing that you should be going all in on but if you try flipping a house if you try wholesaling if you try house hacking maybe a little bit of short-term rentals I think it's at that point you can say man I didn't realize this but I'm really good at wholesaling that's when you go all in right like I think you have to be willing to try a few things and not be so locked into the thing that you think you want because very rarely is that the thing that actually works out so that's kind of like my general approach for getting into this is like try a little bit of everything some of these things are free You Can Henry how much would it cost if I wanted to get started wholesaling today how much money would I need to to get started to get started wholesale you can get hard started wholesaling for free it's just going to spend a lot of time okay perfect low stakes so is that what we're saying someone who's working their day job they don't want to be in real estate professionally should start at wholesaling not necessarily I'm just giving an example here like try a few things because everyone thinks that real estate is high stakes like not every aspect of real estate there are ways that you can try your hand at real real estate that's not like the riskiest investment of your life right that's what I'm saying and then in terms of like what expectations should they have I think the expectations that they should have is that they they're probably going to be working 80 hours a week for a while like you know we the network that you're talking about that I have the network that Henry has and that is a network that we have built because we were working like 80 90 hour weeks for so many years I didn't quit my job dude until like two years ago man like you know what I mean like I've only had this magical Network for two years and it's just because like you know like I put put in the work but before that I was working I was going taking calls in between meetings I was like leaving work to go like do a contractor call whatever I was doing so much stuff at work taking calls at nights missing dinners doing all that type of stuff so I think the expectation is there's still a lot of work that you have to do it will never be an easy route to get started but dang it isn't worth it yeah you know I think I think to add a little bit more color to that you know I do I still believe it but a good deal is is the best way uh to go and so finding that good deal but I think part of the reason that people are struggling with um figuring out how to be a lucrative investor in this market is more about like how much of that work are you willing to put in because anybody can do this right now you can go and you can get on the MLS in your local market and you can pull a list of properties that have been listed 30 days longer than the average days on Market in your market right and you can get a list and you can go down that list and say you just only pull single families and you can go down the list you can analyze every single one of those properties and figure out what's the number that this deal would work for me right and so if you know you want to buy rentals you can go analyze each deal and say all right for me to get my seven percent cash on cash return and a hundred dollars a door then I have to be able to buy this property that's listed for 350 000 for a hundred and twenty five thousand that's the number that works and then you know what you do you submit that offer right if you did that for every single property listed for 30 days longer than the average days on market and every expired listing in your market and you did that relentlessly consistently for the next 90 days you'd probably land a deal but nobody wants to put in that kind of work like people don't want to go do that work that's a time-consuming Endeavor you got to analyze a ton of deals you got to make a ton of uncomfortable offers you got to convince an agent to make those uncomfortable offers for you and then convince them why it's a good idea for them to do it right so you really have to ask yourself am I willing to put in the kind of work it's going to take for me to be successful in this kind of a market because you can go find a deal you just got to be willing to get uncomfortable and that's what people don't like doing boom baby but I will say I do want to plug that in one of the previous episodes we talked about Henry talked about buying deeper and so we're going to do an episode on how to get off Market properties Henry will take us through his strategy so respond to the poll if you want to hear how we find off-market deals leave a comment on YouTube and we're going to work on it for you guys all right Rob where can people find out more about you uh Rob built on YouTube and Instagram Henry Instagram I'm at the Henry Washington on Instagram and I Am David green24 with an e at the end of green do you guys have your blue checks yet oh yeah baby you know I do make sure it's got a blue check because we have a lot of fake people that are uh mimicking us trying to take your money through scams of a crypto nature and we don't want you to fall for that so I'm David green24 on YouTube and on pretty much all social media send us a DM if you have any questions and if you like this show if you like the straight shooting if you like the no BS no fluff we're giving it to you like it is and we're giving you examples of what we're doing to make deals work would you please go leave us a review on Apple podcast and let us know what you think about the show all right I'm gonna get you guys out of here thanks so much for joining me we went into overtime today sticking with the basketball analogy but we hope you gave you guys a great game this is David Green for Henry Relentless Pursuit Washington and Rob the Papa Doc of freestyles [Music] thank you [Music]

Channel: BiggerPockets

Views: 104,508

Keywords: real estate investing, real estate, how to analyze a rental property, how to analyze rental property, how to analyze investment property, rental property analysis, invest in real estate, housing market, real estate market, mortgage rates, fix and flip, flipping houses, short term rental, vacation rental, short term rental investing, 2023 housing market, 2023 real estate market, investing in 2023, build wealth, passive income, biggerpockets, biggerpockets podcast, podcast

Id: Tklm0NokMV8

Length: 67min 7sec (4027 seconds)

Published: Tue May 30 2023