The truth about Tom Cruise, Scientology & his 3 WIVES

question um how is is the most famous person on the planet Tom Cruise the face of an extreme cult like Scientology how does that come to happen um yes he is and that comes to happen by um Scientology actively promoting for and trying to get celebrities on board and they got Tom Cruise on board in the 1980s and have successfully kept him around and then reinvigorated him in the early 2000s late 1990s so that he is a full-born full-blown fanatical Scientologist first and foremost and what did they I didn't know about that they reinvigorated him what did what happened there well that was the whole uh test up with Nicole uh when they uh what happened was Tom Cruise got into Scientology in the 1980s via his um his the woman he married Mimi Rogers that was his first wife and she was a second gen Scientologist her father had been a Scientologist and she was a highly trained Scientology auditor as well as being an actress so they connected had a you know wild marriage for a few years then on the set of Days of Thunder Tom Cruise met Nicole Kidman his co-star and fell head over heels for her decided he wanted to be with her not with Mimi anymore and Scientology helped facilitate that oh Ruth was a huge movie star by that point he had already had you know all of his 1980s hits under his belt and uh I think Days of Thunder was early 90s and um and so they helped him get Nicole uh and he had that marriage through the 1990s but one of the problems with that marriage is that Nicole Kidman's father is a practicing psychologist oh yeah Scientology hates Psychiatry and psychology um like badly and so yeah it looks like it looks like this is all working here so um then he started kind of distancing a little bit from Scientology this is by mid 90s we're talking about he was maybe not doing so much Scientology sort of maybe talking about it a little bit here and there read a book stuff like that but no couch jumping no wild you know assertions about it no like in your face proselytizing of it he was kind of cool on it and Nicole I think was kind of you know called Nicole Kidman's influence I think was part of that she started doing Scientology and got up you know up to the confidential levels but she was never really totally on board with it the same way he had been so their marriage you know ups and downs whatever Tom Cruise's life he starts getting talked to a little bit more about scientology this guy Marty Rathbun who's now out long time out was uh basically became Tom Cruise's Handler he was kind of put on the case to get Tom Cruise back on board like fully and completely and really rejuvenate him in Scientology that's what David miscavige the leader of Scientology that's what he wanted he wanted Tom Cruise back on board fully and in order to do that Marty um engaged in what we'll call a little bit of Parental alienation where he decided to turn the kids against Nicole and go for Tom and pro-scientology Scientology Scientology and Nicole and uh you know that didn't respond well to that I suppose because they ended up separating and uh divorcing and that's how that kind of happened is it was scientology's influence because they were trying to get him fully back on board and they succeeded I'm not sure exactly what they did I know some of what they did but it and it's you know it's kind of Scientology related stuff but they basically convinced Tom that Nicole and Nicole's father and that connection and that whole situation was a Troublesome problematic thing for him to have in his life and it was a bad negative influence on his kids they are adopted children and I convinced him well enough that they ended up separating and divorcing and uh and then of course Scientology then with with Crews fully back on board and David miscavige really integrated into Tom Cruise's life now as his best friend best bud they were Bros now they start talking Tom and David miscavige about what they're going to do about scientology and let's grow Scientology it's like Scientology really really big and the thing to do and Tom decided in the early 2000s that he would be the big media you know spokesperson celebrity personality really do his job do his part as a Scientologist and as the most famous celebrity in the world and that's why we saw all the Antics that he engaged in in the in the early mid 2000s is the summary of the of the of the history there so I know I know a lot of people are obviously familiar with Scientology and even more obviously familiar with Tom Cruise and his involvement in it but I think I I don't know I might be wrong about this but I think just what you've said which should be common knowledge I think you might have blown a few Minds there because I think firstly I don't think many people know about Tom Cruise's first wife at all let alone that she was who got him into Scientology um and secondly I don't I while people know so that he's that he's big in Scientology I don't think people are fully aware of quite what a role he's played in in keeping it alive and propelling the whole thing this is a huge cult so let's go back to I mean what can you tell me about was it Mimi Rogers you said that's right hmm what can you tell me about her well she's you know she's obviously was an actor she was a bit bigger in the 80s than she has been since but she um she was she was an auditor she's a trained auditor and what that means is is uh it's a uh Scientology version of a counselor right or therapist it's really not therapy and I take great pains to try to say it's not but it kind of looks like it you know and she was trained in that and again second generation she'd been raised as I understand it she was raised in Scientology or or had had influence with that uh through her most of her life so Tom had a problem with um as I understand it the the hook the thing that kind of got him to start paying attention to Scientology and what it could do for him is he was suffering from dyslexia he had he had reading issues and study issues and he had a real hard time with that and by um the study methodology that Scientology promotes include spending an awful lot of time in dictionaries clearing up words understanding words the symbols the ideas that are being communicated and he really got into that like seriously really got into backing that up and apparently it helped him in some fashion enough that he promoted it publicly and actually even went and spoke at the grand opening of a Scientology educational facility called applied Scholastics and he was really gung-ho and really on board with this and you know good for him I'm pretty sure he had you know good intent when it comes to spreading you know how to how to handle learning disabilities or study issues or problems and if he gained from that then then great um but then he dumped me right then I was like yeah but I don't you know and once Nicole came along it was like oh you know starry-eyed and and it was as I understand it it was pretty unceremonious I mean it was just okay well this is what I want and this is what I'm going to do and and uh and if we look at Mimi Nicole Katie we see Thomas somebody I don't know that it's you know such a stretch to say that this is a guy who likes new things novelty he likes adventure and excitement and and things always mixed up and what's the next big mountain to climb what's the next big goal to attain and that's kind of his thing and I guess it applies to his relationships as well because he's that had a bit of a hard time maintaining long-term relationships Mimi Rogers must feel a bit pissed off really because she got him in she must be like I got you into this whole thing and now I'm being replaced has she ever spoken out about that any of this not that I'm aware of and Not only would there be um you know non-disclosure agreements up one side and down the other with that but also she as far as I I I don't know if she's even left Scientology or or has a problem with Scientology and if if she is still connected with the mother Church through family connections business associates whatever or she's still a Believer which is possible I I've never heard that she is officially left Scientology that itself would be a pressure point on her to not say a word doesn't matter how you feel about it you're not saying anything publicly about this Tom is the star you are not keep your damn mouth shut would be the attitude of the church towards her about that issue so you know that nothing nothing can threaten Tom Cruise's Public Image or um status in Scientology he is he is absolutely top ranked as far as the celebrity scientologists go and basically David miscavige stood on a stage I think it was in 2004 and presented Tom Cruise with the uh highest award that you can receive in Scientology the freedom medal of valor that's that video everybody has seen and um that was not something David miscavige has ever done before or since it was kind of a big deal you know for Tom Cruise to receive that and he called Tom Cruise the most dedicated Scientologist he knows pretty big slap in the face to all the people who actually are working 24 7. given that Tom Cruise you know goes on a microphone every now and again and says some nice words or jumps on a couch or something I mean it's not really working his guts out for Scientology the same way I used to and and many other you know thousands of other people who who have worked in scientology's C organization they're they're they're they're really hardcore cult Center that you know that was a slap in the face Tom of those people but David miscavich had no problem doing that because Tom Cruise has to be exalted and raised on a pillar you know in front of all the other scientologists and that and and the point on that that shouldn't be ignored is not only does that um disseminate or proselytize Scientology but it also elevates Tom Cruise's ego for Tom Cruise you know look at how great you are look at how wonderful you are the leader of of your religion thinks you're the most dedicated person in it wow you know so it's all about that ego love bombing ego boosting thing that we talked about with Cults you know this is Tom Cruise's is far from uh immune to such things oh man if if anyone if you've just joined us I'm here with Chris Shelton go check out his channel if you're coming from his Channel please go check out my channel as well um and and we are talking Scientology and Tom Cruise we'll get on to Chris's own uh experience in it in in a little bit so on on to your point oh and also by the way a few people were commenting saying there haven't been many likes on this video so hit the like button whether you're on Chris's or my uh Channel please hit like and all those YouTubey things I don't really know that much about we'd uh really appreciate it or help spread the video loads and say hi and all that stuff um so does that in Scientology does that cause a little bit of um annoyance or or resentment about Tom Cruise because as you say there's people in the sea org I gather there are people who are you know washing the floors and things working talking 20 hours a day not sleeping and then Tom Cruise goes and speaks on the talk show and that's and he's the best ever Scientologist is do you know of any resentment within yes I do because I certainly resented him when I was in right yeah it's a subtle sort of thing you can only get away with saying you know or expressing so much about this right there's no way you can get away with running around in the world of Scientology calling Tom Cruise a dick right or or a saying he's taking advantage or you know God that guy you know or and you certainly you and if that if you can't do that you definitely cannot bad mouth David miscavige for what he said or or you know any of him pushing Tom Cruise on us but we did it was def that was absolutely resentment about it there was a it was a weird sort of thing because when I was a sea work member and this and again the sea org is the 24 7 billion year contract fact you're dedicated you're not doing anything with your life but Scientology you don't have a job you don't go to work Scientology is all you're doing so as a sea org member right we were hardcore dedicated um you don't you didn't get to openly criticize or be skeptical or critical of Tom Cruise or David miscavige in any way so what you have to get away with are you know wide eyes and that kind of look you get when you're kind of talking to somebody where you're both miscerating but not you can't really say anything you just kind of oh yeah Tom Cruise yeah you know that yeah that's that is dangerous just saying that much about him would be a dangerous thing to do I mean there's a story Mark Headley told which is worth repeating here that Tom Cruise is himself a pretty vindictive guy and there's this story that he tells is that uh around that same time period around that same 2003-2004 time Cruz pulled in uh had a meeting uh in Hollywood with the other Scientology celebrities uh you know here we're talking about Jenna Elfman at that time uh um maybe Kate ma or uh sorry I'm forgetting her name um Michael Pena Elizabeth Moss you know these the people who are scientologists who were celebrities Travolta uh Travolta may or may not have been at this particular meeting um he says to them I'm sick and tired of the fact that you people aren't doing your part to pull your Freight in with Scientology you know I'm doing all this stuff you guys aren't saying anything about it you barely talk about it you do the bare minimum enough's enough this is [ __ ] times are going to change and you guys going to get out there and you're going to promote Scientology you're going to talk Scientology and do Scientology you're going to get active and if you don't I'm gonna do something about it I'm gonna do something about it to you personally right I'm gonna I'm gonna impinge on your career I'm gonna ruin you this is what I understand occurred at this meeting right and this is that this is the story that Mark tells and it's uh you know it's an intense story but when you when you put together the anecdotes that you hear over the years about Tom Cruise Before Scientology and after what I see here is that we have somebody who um struggled very hard you know did it pay to Do's did his work you know got got big got into the industry had his lucky breaks got into the right places at the right time to get on to get noticed by the right people so that he will in Risky Business is where things really took off for him um that's all fine very self-centered very egotistical very like you know very energetic about his work though very interested in doing the job and um Scientology came along and kind of ramped up every awful thing that was there and his personality to be ramped up girls you know because technology is an ego Fest and I can tell you from personal experience I mean I was involved with it for 27 years it's it's all about feeding ego that's what keeps you going in Scientology is is the fact that you know you are somebody important just for being a Scientologist now Tom Cruise is already somebody important yeah then you amp into this you you feed into this you know hollywood-centric actor-centric ego a spiritual importance a a a a a a a a you are saving the world through what you're doing kind of ego feeding and you know and it blows up to exponential proportions it's it's ridiculous it it's mind-blowing how how big the guy's ego is and um but that's how it is that's where that's where it's at that's what Scientology has kind of done to him it's really weird um and I guess it's a sign of the changing times but you know whenever you watch and I I might have said this to you when we last spoke as well when you watch uh some of those Tom Cruise movies from back in the early 90s or even now actually I'm talking about A Few Good Men or risky business as you say The Color of Money uh the one with Dustin Hoffman Rainman and he's outrageously arrogant to to the point of being um very unlikable I I think extremely unlikable and I was particularly watching it um if you're watching it with a woman because you know he's utterly sexist the women don't get any lines at all he's and I'm not I'm not some woke guy or anything like that at all um but the Tom Cruise in particular his characters are horrible um and so I can see what you mean it seems like they're an extension of him and and then the Scientologist oh it's just too much isn't it well that's the thing a lot of his roles and and the ones that he tends to gravitate toward especially you know in the last 20 years have been all about um story arcs where you have this you know very egocentric character very you know arrogant uh whatever and he has to somehow go through a hero's journey take a fall learn his lesson and then come back stronger than ever and beat all the bad guys and kill everybody and do everything he's supposed to do and come out the hero and then and the and the weird thing that I've always noticed about his movies is how all the other supporting characters always know what an amazing superhero god-like character he is and they facilitate him through his fall you know help him out pick him back up and then you know start worshiping him again like there's this kind of you have to be following him you can't just like him or be his friend in his movies you have to kind of worship him or something it's it's I don't know maybe I'm reading too much into it but that's what I see when I look at his movies for the most part is is is his insistence that he be this nearly infallible character and even his character flaws or his downfalls are really never his fault not really you know that big of a problem and he doesn't really have to suffer that much and then he comes right back and saves the day and everything and it's all about his heroism and him saving the day and it's kind of along the same flavor I guess you could connect the dots to the kind of actors who do their own stunts and you know like oh I do all my own stunts and it's like you know that's not really your job taking the job from someone else well you are I mean seriously scared of like you know is there some if there was some kind of ego boost or if there was some kind of Fame to be gotten insane why my own sound guy I record all my own sound right right I'm My Own cameraman if I was you know if there was some other job he could steal but for some reason the stunt thing is the one that you know that he gravitates toward because it's so dangerous and will get him more uh attention and likes and admiration and that kind of thing yeah it's admiration well yeah and not just in his movies um if you see some of the interviews when you know he gets admired everywhere he goes of course but on the very rare occasions when an interviewer shows a bit of a cheeky side or a bit of a not not venerating Tom Cruise he really loses his mind and there was that of the two famous ones I know of are um Matt Lauer that was about Psychiatry and then there was Peter Overton I think he's Australian I imagine you've seen both of those right that's right yes uh the the Overton one was both of them were quite in quite insightful they they were they were revealing because the real Tom Cruise popped out for a minute yeah and and see that's the thing is is is is is it's hard to you know you me other people you get on camera you kind of try to put your best foot forward you try to put your best face on you you know you want to come off well you don't want to come off looking like an idiot Tom Cruise takes that to to a to a astronomical level right he's so controlled when he's on camera and everything about his public appearances is very very controlled and that's that word control there's a lot cruise control you know there's a lot there to be looked into right Cruz is very very very controlled oriented so when things happen that he didn't predict for or aren't under his control see he's great when everything is under his control he's wonderful he's you know actors other people talk about him and glowing terms he's so wonderful he's so professionally so on it and I'm sure all those things are true from their experience of him yeah what does it take to put things in that level of control how many people does he have working for him behind the scenes and what does he have to do to get them to control things to this degree well these are scientologists who are mostly working for him and they're willing to do anything he says and they have to call him sir and things like that right so you get this sort of then you start seeing that there's this curtain and now the other side of the curtain is human trafficking and is and is and as weird stuff is like wait a minute what these guys are doing what for you and they're and they're and they're working for free and they're and they're what they're spying for you and they're doing this for you and that and they're spying on you I mean like that there's weird stuff between him and his relationship with the church man where he has these handlers right and they help him and facilitate his life but at the same time they report on everything he does to back to David miscavige oh it's so weird it's a convoluted kind of life and that's why he's so tense and on all the time as he's all he's trying to micromanage all these elements in his life and when he fails to do that you get a Matt Bauer interview you get a and you know the other um uh of Peter Overton well the Peter Overton the interesting thing is because you said he's quite a vindictive Guy Tom Cruise and the questions that that really seem to annoy Tom Cruise were ones that he as Peter Overton says you've answered these questions before to other press of what's the problem here but right at the beginning of the conversation Peter Overton says to him I didn't know I was going to have to do a four-hour Scientology uh like going around a tour to be able to speak to you and Tom Cruise just says well you didn't have to and he says well you know yes obviously I did if I was going to speak to you and it felt I wonder if what was happening later on he was just saying like are you still friendly with Nicole which is a very reasonable question for an Australian presenter to ask God wants to know if I were Australian because that's our our actress is from there um so is that what was happening he was just angry from the beginning maybe about that comment about oh I didn't know I'd have to go to Scientology and he's taking it out on Peter Overton for the rest of the interview oh that's yeah that's not a hard inference to draw at all right because again there's a little exposure there of the kind of control exactly what I'm talking about behind the scenes there's a control point right you're not going to interview me unless you go find out all about scientology first but they're not making that that's not a transparent point of the interview Tom Cruise did not expect him to say that on camera no because he didn't want that known and then he then he tries to tell him oh well you didn't have to do that but as you mentioned of course he did otherwise they wouldn't be talking that's the kind of control he puts there it's above and beyond it's like when he sets up a Scientology booth on the set of War of the Worlds why would you who does that why would you do that that's crazy but that's what he insists on doing is he wants it then that makes it normal that makes it okay and we're going to do it this way and if you question it how dare you how dare you get your manners in I think that's what he called the guy right it's your man yes and then people at the end he's he's sort of okay with him at the end he's he's sort of because because uh Overton says oh you know that was a bit awkward wasn't it that's my Australian accent it's terrible but uh and Tom Cruise says like you you went out of line and I I brought you back okay you went out of line I brought you back in it's okay like that really like this control thing really odd but you know you talk about water balls that was um Steven Spielberg why are these people like Spielberg like so many other huge names who could have any actor they ever wanted well you know and we're in a world right now where you say one word out of line and you know you could be canceled you're or not picked which is fine that's a director's prerogative you know and yet they're all choosing to you talk about human I'm you're going to use a transporting because I've heard the other word can can get you picked up on YouTube probably just nonsense but I've heard that but human human transporting and um all sorts of abuses going on why is it overlooked when it's Tom Cruise because he draws in millions and billions of dollars obviously you know there's there's people if people can it's so funny I mean when it comes to Hollywood there is no morality there is no moral code you know people seem to think that that Hollywood and there's all these liberals there and they push all these extreme liberal values and it's like it's not you know yes there are actors who have liberal Progressive ideas and values and would like to see them reflected in entertainment but that's not who makes the decisions about what gets seen on the screen the things that get thrown up on the screen or the things that are that that the executives believe are going to make money and Tom Cruise is one of the biggest money-making individuals in Hollywood for decades decades this guy's name will draw millions and millions and millions of viewers so if you as a director right like you're a Steven Spielberg and you want to produce a movie now automatically as a Steven Spielberg your movie is going to get seen you're not going to have a problem getting your movie made and you're not going to have a problem getting your movie seen But if you want to have the maximum number of eyeballs on it you're going to want a Tom Cruise in your movie you're going to want to Tom Hanks in your movie you know you're going to want somebody with with power and of course there is a work ethic there is a professionalism that they bring and apparently this is has been said so many times I have to believe it's true that Tom Cruise really does bring his A-game when he shows up on set he is focused he's there he's doing his job he's very good yeah and he's and he's good at what he does I don't happen to um to think that acting wise his acting shops are really that amazing I don't think they are but um but they are um they're good for what he's doing for the genre that he's in for action movies he does great and he comes up with you know very imaginative visual effects and and and stunts and things like that that he likes to get involved in and and again I'm sure that same level of control is being brought to all of that as is being brought to his PR game yeah well you know so it's so it's kind of a you know in terms of the industry people fall all over themselves to work with Tom Cruise he is he is the power player one of the top power players in Hollywood to this day and it's understandable if you're a John Hamm you know and you get offered a brawl and Tom in uh in Top Gun too he told uh Howard Stern in an interview Jon Hamm was going on about this he said uh he got offered the role and he was like it was a no-brainer of course I'm doing it you know his agent calls him and he's like hey you want to do this he goes yeah of course I'm doing it well we're negotiating the money no you're not I'm doing that movie I don't care just make it work if you don't get me this movie you're fired and everybody else is fired get me in that movie that was his attitude about it just sight unseen not knowing anything about it except it's Top Gun too and Tom Cruise is in it there are there are cases I guess where people do but again I feel like it's only because they know the bad press will outweigh when they choose not to work with someone it's not really because they've got their own Scruples because humans don't work that way and it's only because they know that the Press will be bad and I think for example Woody Allen is an example where a lot of people now say I won't work with him and you know again understandably so uh but I I wonder I wonder had Tom Cruise you know we don't know I suppose it's a totally different set of events that you know why with Woody Allen and why that's controversial but Tom Cruise is just such a big name and Woody Allen was more Art House so well very much so I mean Woody Allen has a whole different kind of Fame connected with him here's the thing about Tom Cruise is um maybe this is unfair I don't think it is but I know some people might might think it is um you know people knew what Harvey Weinstein was all about for years yeah and yet they fell all over themselves to work with him or for him as a producer because they knew his move his movies got seen he would produce movies and they would get seen and if you wanted to be a person in a movie that was going to get seen you dealt with that now I'm not saying it's right it's not right it's not right at all that people had to do what Harvey Weinstein wanted them to do in order to get their movies seen but that was the price I don't imagine it's a whole lot different with Tom Cruise and one of the things that's clear in working with Tom Cruise is you have to be glowing about him when you're asked about him because I mean every single actor who's ever worked with the guy right or not every single one I can cite Brad Pitt for example as somebody who said he'll never work with him again did he yeah he did what did he say I said something subtle I can't remember the exact words I read it recently but it was um just there were people on a list he has of people he's not going to work with and Tom Cruise was reportedly on that list after he did Interview with the Vampire with him he just did not get along with him and did not think that that was somebody he wanted to work with again or whatever it was it was okay uh so um so not everybody is is super happy with Tom Cruise right I mean Leah's got things to say about him she certainly interacted with him behind the scenes even if she's never worked with him on a set what she said that's Leah Remini Romiti Remini who's also a Scientologist what does she say about Tom Cruise well she says quite a bit about him because she was at his wedding right and it was in Rome with Katie Holmes and I think that was in 2006 I think they got married um anyway she she had a problem her big problem was where's where's Shelly where's David miscavige's wife here how come she's not here David miscavage was Tom Cruise's best man at the wedding but David miscavige's wife doesn't show up to the wedding what's up with that Well turns out she hasn't been seen in public ever since then uh we haven't seen shall we miscavige in over 15 years uh in public people wonder if she's Steven's still alive wow that's really scary yeah seriously right and and Tom Cruise's wedding was the was the sort of jump off point was the sort of uh um impetus for Leah Remini to actually get out of Scientology and take her entire family with her was she started asking questions about things that happened there and that led to a Domino series of events which led to her getting the hell out of Scientology wow I've got her friend or her colleague Mike rinder coming on um next week actually to talk about some new book yes yeah he'll tell you all about that oh really good bro yeah so Tom's you know so so it's really I don't know that it's super complicated the situation with him and um I got to thinking about this after our last conversation about him you know where I kind of called him a monster and said he was this really horrible person and he's done very horrible things but I you know I don't mean that I'm not going to walk that back because you know doing monstrous things means that that's what you are and he's done some monstrous things to people uh in the name of uh Scientology and his own and his own personal you know same situation um but I also get why it is that he's like he's never going to leave Scientology he's never going to get out of that headspace and it's because he is so successful he doesn't after he doesn't have to suffer any of the consequences for his bad behavior yeah that's what it is that's what it is I don't want you to walk back the monster things because I used I used that quite heavily in the public publicizing publication of it all Tom Cruise is a monster it's quite eye-opening but it sounds like it's true and I want to get on to um and of course look here's the thing nobody is all bad nobody's all good and we are all products of our environment to an extent as well and you know when when you get put on a pedestal I'd like to see how I react and also the people I was having to go at before you know why do they work with him and that kind of thing what you just said I I probably and maybe it's controversial to say if I were an actor you know up and coming actor and I had the chance back in the day to work with uh Harvey Weinstein if I had the chance to work with Tom Cruise and I knew the Press didn't necessarily know all these things and I could get away with it I'd probably do it and I'd be sitting there in my Mansion 10 years later going well I made a decision it might have been immoral but you know all sitting 10 years later in a basement somewhere like a you know dwelling just about surviving going well I've got my uh I've got my morals don't I but nothing else so it's difficult Choice what about um Katie Holmes um so how did that come about that they met and everything and how did it fall apart yeah so okay here's what I can tell you directly about this is that in the around that same time as that freedom metal of hour and that time period because I was still banging around in the sea ordering that time there was an international effort within the world of Scientology to find the most beautiful scientologists now we were told that this was for a modeling thing or a film thing for some internal purpose it had nothing to do with time but people were tasked with doing this people who worked for uh the the Golden Era Productions division of Scientology the part that makes the films and videos and everything they were scouring all the models and and face you know headshots and everything of all the celebrities and all the people who want to be celebrities or models who are in Scientology and I don't imagine this is a huge list of people but um but there are some beautiful people in Scientology I was not on that project I knew the person who was on that project in the West U.S where I was working at the time and it was just kind of this you know drop everything get this done and they were working on it for I think a couple weeks we'd ever really heard much from them they weren't you know the gold person uh his name was andras he didn't attend any meetings we didn't see him for his he you know he just didn't surface for about two weeks and it's because he was working on this project and I had no idea what it was until years later when I left and the time mean and everything about holy cow that was the Katie project because what that was was they were looking for another Nicole like okay he's dumb Nicole he's that's gone uh he's got his kids he's you know he's moving forward but he really likes having a woman let's get him a woman let's find him a Scientologist this time strategically from the church of scientology's point of view it makes complete sense that they would try to set him up with somebody who was already a hardcore full-blown Scientologist given this is conjecture on my part but given the fact that you know he micromanages his life to such a degree I it's hard for me it stretches my credulity to think that he didn't know that this was happening um I mean you know it just seems to me a stretch um David miscaviged clearly the driving force behind this thing because that the orders were top top priority I mean when it's a drop everything and you're not seeing people for weeks you know this is not just a regular ordinary kind of project this is a this is what was called a department 21 project David miscavige is referred to internally as Department 21. right extremism for you know top of the top of the food chain right um so this project happens and somehow either that resulted that that didn't result in a a full-blown Scientologist for whatever reason that didn't work out now there were candidates who were tried there was a Scientology actress um I'm gonna butcher her name so let me see if I can look it up really fast while you're looking it up I just say thank you everyone for coming again and if you just joined if you're on the live stream um I'm Andrew gold obviously from the on not obviously because I'm so cool or anything but you know because of the name in front of me that says on the edge with Andrew gold and I'm interviewing Chris Shelton a former Scientologist about uh Tom Cruise and Scientology we might have to do this like a a second one because I think initially we were going to do Tom Cruise halfway through and then move on to coercion in general and Cults and stuff we might have to do a second one in a couple weeks because the Tom Cruise stuff is there's so much to talk about loads of people here if you're here please do click hit the like button and introduce yourself in the chat I think that will spread this out to more more people and everything and if you're watching on Chris's come subscribe and on the edge with Andrew gold lots of cult stuff and all that and if you're watching on mine definitely go and subscribe to Chris's amazing Channel all about scientology and again Colton coercion quite similar channels go on Chris if you found you found what you were looking for yeah yeah her name is um [Music] and uh she's an Iranian actress a British actress and activist born in Iran raised in London she was a Scientologist she's no longer one and the reason why is because of Tom Cruise because she was set up with him she seemed to be she she tells the whole story you can look this up and I'm not going to repeat all of it here because I don't remember every detail but basically she got set up with Tom Cruise they started going out she expressed some things that like she had a headache one time when he wanted to go do something and that pissed him off that she didn't want to go because she had this headache and then before she knew it she was in his in his life and then boom she was out of his life sent to Clearwater Florida she was sent down to flag in Clearwater and made to scrub toilets with a toothbrush and made to do other oh yeah very degrading physical work uh as a result of this falling out with Tom Cruise she had an upset Tom and there is no higher crime apparently in Scientology than upsetting Tom so she was uh run through the the Grist Mill because of that and she and this is her she she's laid all this out wow I'm not making this stuff up and um and that's one of the things that made her realize holy cow what am I actually involved in here this is awful and she you know hit the eject button uh not too long after so that was one of the outcomes of this attempt to set him up with a Scientologist right is and she's dropped dead gorgeous she's absolutely you know beautiful woman um but it didn't work out then somehow someway Katie Holmes got into the orbit and she's not she was not a Scientologist but somehow that happened and uh in a whirlwind romance I mean it was like in a couple months they went from dating to marriage proposal and um and then she got pregnant I think before the wedding and then they got married and uh and they were together I think six years and they had Surrey uh their daughter well I think it was 2012. um Katie Holmes had to arrange and this really doesn't get as much attention I got a lot of attention when it happened and then it just kind of moved on the celebrity media is is kind of very stuck in what's happening right now now now now he was jumping on the sofa wasn't he Oprah so this was sofa time jumping like a madman on the sofa that's exactly right that was that time period he was proclaiming his love for her she was proclaiming her love for him it was this big Whirlwind Tomcat thing in the in the media everybody was going Gaga about it um they get married you know again have Siri then you know six years later she arranges to escape from him she didn't just divorce him or say hey I'm kind of done she had to actually Escape she's her father fortunately for her is a divorce attorney pretty high-powered divorce attorney in New York and she arranged things she fired the staff that were assigned to her by Tom bodyguard advisor Handler or whatever she got those people out she was being by the way from the very beginning she was being trailed by a scientologist's Handler who was with her all the time every time she was on camera in public whatever this scientologist was trailing her with her um anyway she escaped from all of that got all those people out of her life and within I think about a week or two had um arranged burner phones and you know a part she got this apartment and she got away she escaped and she called him well she waited until he was out of town up in uh Iceland doing a film shoot and she then called him and said we're done uh and apparently it blindsided him probably shouldn't have there were indications that they had been growing apart before then um but she took off and she uh and she got out of his orbit and it was quick like within a couple weeks the divorce was finalized her father was like all over that and I think as long as she didn't have anything to say about it which she did not she has not really spoken publicly about it in any real significant way ever since and this is going on 10 years ago now um as long as she keeps her mouth shut mom's gonna be okay with her and she still gets a career and she still gets a life and he doesn't you know try to fair game her and the Church of Scientology doesn't try to fair game her meaning they swap her ass try to ruin you utterly that's that's their that's the name for the policy they they apply when they do that and they do do it and they are pretty hardcore about it but somehow she got out of that probably because she does have Tom Cruise's kid and she has she has rights to to she has she uh is the parent Tom just has visitation rights which I guess he hardly ever uses is that right yeah he hardly ever sees his daughter I don't in fact I can't remember the last time he saw her at least that it was reported on um it might be in secret yeah they might be they might be but um you know public indications are that he has has not really been very interested in the in the life of his daughter and because one of the reasons that it is put out there and I think this is something Tom himself admitted to and I and I hope I'm right about that I read it I read it this reviewed it this morning is one of the reasons that she left was that she didn't want Suri to get involved with Scientology and she was coming of innate where that was going to start happening about six or seven years old is when you can really start going in on a kid with Scientology up until then that doesn't really it's not going to be very meaningful and she didn't want that and she had been having Scientology forced on her and she was like yeah this isn't the same my thing and like Nicole she was like yeah this this isn't my thing and so you know she got out of there and she saved her her daughter was it was there a big a bit of tension I just just I was just going to ask about the the pregnancy and the uh the the painkillers source of contention yeah yeah that was a source of contention as well Dianetics uh one of elrond Hubbard's brainchilds is that you are supposed to be absolutely quiet around an injured person because any words you say go directly into the subconscious part of the mind that will then use those words later to traumatize you or cause you to do things you don't want to do that's the basic Theory uh one of the basic theories of Dianetics it's total pseudoscientific nonsense there's really no evidence of that but you know uh Hubbard went all in on that belief and scientologists therefore believe that uh you know pain injury unconsciousness you got to be quiet and it's not necessarily by the way a bad thing to be quiet around unconscious people I'm not suggesting that there's something harmful about it but it's but to be so insistent to be so obsessive about it and to the point where birth as a process tends to be a bit noisy and awful and and Scientology they want quiet silent births they don't want anybody saying anything uh that might get into the mother child's you know subconscious mind they call it the reactive mind in Scientology and uh and so they try to guard against that and that was another bone of contention apparently is you know oh now we have to go through this whole ordeal as though having a baby isn't bad enough now I gotta have all this pseudoscience added on top of it which uh is just useless nonsense but that's you know that's Tom Cruise for you man I cut you off before when you was still he was still talking about Katie Holmes remember what you were you were saying then I think we were getting up to like the point when she had to escape yeah all I wanted to say there real fast was um that it really that that she does need regardless of any of the specifics of awfulness or traumatizing behavior that might have occurred from Tom to Katie I really want to validate Katie for rescuing her daughter from Scientology because that is what she did it's it is something to be rescued from I grew up in Scientology I grew up with it and I know what it does to you and it does bad things it's it's not it's not just another set of beliefs it's a set of practices and techniques that you use on yourself as well as on other people and those techniques include tremendous emotional suppression that causes to to a degree that causes psychological trauma in and of itself you just suppress and deny your own emotional life and and your ability to actually experience life you know and all it's good and bad and right and wrong is impacted by that and that's just one of about 20 different things that Scientology is doing to you so getting her out of that was a truly heroic thing for her to do she was not they the outcome of that was in no way set and uh and I was very impressed by what Katie did to arrange all that and and do that um well I mean yeah when you say Escape was it a a real Escape was it really like what could have happened to her well it had Tom known or found out about what was going on he absolutely would have tried to do what we call in Scientology a a departure deter you know an attempt to stop her from leaving I mean in the world of Scientology and the Sea org um there have been numerous testimonials and and stories told about people getting locked up in rooms being put under watch being put um you know basically under lock and key while they are while they contemplated the wisdom of their choices and whether they should really be leaving Scientology or not they don't want you leaving right and this has happened enough times in enough circumstances that it's that it presents itself as a real problem in that world is you don't know what they're gonna do if you try to leave and one of the defining characteristics or questions you can ask yourself when you're looking at a group as to whether it's a destructive cult or not is what happens when you try to leave and if you try to leave and they go hey knock yourself out you come back if you ever feel like it no big deal we're we're happy to keep talking to you okay that's not a cult you you know if you can just walk out the door and it's no harm no foul then that does that's not very culty but the exact opposite is what happens in groups like Scientology you try to leave and they do anything and everything they can to keep you to hold on to you to force you to stay because they truly believe they truly believe that this group this relationship this activity is the single best thing you could possibly be involved in how could you possibly want to leave there must be something wrong with you that you're wanting to go so stay and let's fix it and you know could Tom Cruise pull that on her of course he could of course he could they would never have heard it I've heard it said the worst kind of dictator or authoritarian is the type that thinks that they're doing good for you they because they'll never stop exactly exactly that's how we justify and rationalize so much abuse and Trauma is the road to hell is paved with good intentions I had to I mean you know I can again I can look at myself and present myself as a as a model of this I was involved in Scientology for decades I actually believed I truly to the to the core of my being I believe that I was saving the world and therefore because I believed that everything I did whether it was good bad or sideways I could rationalize as being the greatest good anything if I have to keep you locked in a room to convince you how good Scientology is for you because you have slipped and you've gone off the rails and you've you know you've somehow done something or seen something or said something you know that that is that has thrown you off I need to get you back on the on the straight and narrow you know the attitude is very similar and my attitude would have been very similar to if I thought you it you know I I'm a former you know I don't know drug addict and I think you're slipping and going back on drugs and I'm going to do everything I can to save you and prevent you from doing that that's the attitude right you think you're the good guy and it is it does result in some of the worst abuses unfortunately when people approach things that way when they're that convinced of their own rightness that they can't think critically about what they're doing does Tom Cruise think he's the good guy even when he thinks about the the horrible abuses that go on basically under his name in his name oh yeah Tom Cruise is absolutely convinced he's the good guy I mean his his that you know and and the Insight here is uh his own words he's he's expressed it himself in that video he did with the turtleneck sweater right that that uh that when he got the award from Scientology back in 2004. they they leaked the video where he's talking about in very glowing terms himself and Scientology and how it is the only solution to all the problems the Aleman and you know at a roadside accident a Scientologist is the only person who can really be effective and really do anything helpful when it comes to mental health he says we are the authorities on you know on on psychology on on on mental health and therapy Scientology is the authorities the the psychologists don't know what the hell they're talking about he went on a roll about that with Matt Lauer I mean again this is the real Tom Cruise coming out this is what he really thinks yeah he's had to tone all of that way down he had to pull all that back because it was literally destroying his career because he was being such a fanatic about it on camera he was being weird um and no I've got a comment from uh no no I'm saying saying I love Michael Douglas and falling down at the end when he says I'm the bad guy I love that as well you know I'm the bad guy and uh I always think of Breaking Bad as well why it was so brilliant because he spends the whole series the whole way through he's saying I'm doing it for you you I'm doing it for my family and he says he's about to say it again is I'm doing it and his wife looks at him and he's and he goes for me and he realized that's why he did it all and that's what we are that's I'm anyway I'm going to ask you um one more question about Tom Cruise and then open it up just for like 10 minutes or so to people so if you've got questions for Chris maybe even a question for me but I don't know why you would but you might do um start putting them in and I'll try and sort of keep track of them but uh and and you know as I say please hit the like button do all this do all the stuff please we want you to do all the stuff that yeah as as Operation Paperclip says smash the like subscribe um do you see an do you see Evan I think you you touched on this earlier do you ever ever see a moment where we open the newspaper and it's Tom Cruise has said uh I'm leaving I've left Scientology what of what was I doing yeah no I don't um and I was thinking about this a lot actually and I wanted to make this point again and reiterate it because I think it's an important one Tom Cruise has had nothing but success really uh professionally I am personally maybe not so much I mean three broken marriages isn't really successful but he's but it's very easy for him to reframe all of that as their fault not his easy peasy right especially his last wife who escapes from him because here's the here's the reason why it's easy for him to do that easier for for him than it is for you and me because Scientology tells him L Ron Hubbard gave a lecture in 1960 called why people don't like you and in that lecture the reason why people don't like you is because of all the bad things they've done to you um period end of story if they don't like you it's because of what they did to you hmm that's how elrond Hubbard viewed the world and that's how Tom Cruise fused the world he's a he's a strident supporter of Valor and Hubbard and his and his words and works and that's part of it and so it's easy for Tom Cruise to look at a string of broken marriages or failed projects and go oh well it was other people's fault because look at all these successes and there are a tremendous string of successes in his life and he can attribute all of that to Scientology and he does so it only boosts him and we have this thing in our minds uh which I love talking about called confirmation bias where we remember all the things we you know all the facts that fit with our little story our little narrative we remember and we purposefully forget or or you know invalidate facts that get in the way of that narrative get in the way of our story what Tom Cruise is telling himself a story just like all of us do and his story is that he is the most successful actor in the world and Scientology is part of the reason for that and Scientology empowers him and enables him to be successful so why would he ever question any part of it yeah I think you'll you'll write you um when you talk about the confirmation bias and I think he's particularly given to confirmation bias because there was something he said in that Matt Lauer interview about um psychology he said um I think it was I I always I always felt you know I didn't like psychology and then I did the research and now I know why I don't like psychology and that's a typical example of confirmation bias he went in already deciding for just a feeling an instinct he didn't like it and then he found all the possible information that would you know say so that he you know to prove his point got a lot of questions I've come through and I've had to sort of screenshot them because I don't really know a better way of putting them together but um right so if Ray J says question for Andrew dues do you special do I guess feel special now you have sex spots spamming your channel um I do not feel special about that and I didn't know about that uh Frieda did Katie Holmes know what she was getting into oh no no no no no nobody does when they get involved with Scientology that's one of the that's one of the awful things about it is you you do not know you have no idea when you get involved in Scientology what you are getting involved in and I and I've done I mean that's why I've produced hundreds of videos on the topic because it's it's a long involved thing but we can very easily summarize it by saying that Scientology is a money making scam that uses religious cloaking it uses this idea that it's a religion to get away with not only tax exemption and and financial Shenanigans but all kinds of transporting I guess we're saying in this episode right with people um yeah you know labor um the sexual violations I mean there is a number of things that go on in that group that are very unsavory very abusive and and I I was an eyewitness to it so I I'm speaking from my experience we've got too many so many questions we're gonna have to Quick fire them a bit um but let's have a look uh gnome saying where are all the overweight sea org members they all seem so thin and good looking yeah because we got work so goddamn hard we could never accumulate any weight uh I mean there were a couple you know you'd see a couple overweight folks who got older and their bodies start you know the hormones change but most scientologists most York members are uh working their asses off so they don't they you know you see them gain weight after they leave you'll see overweight XC org members you won't see too many overweight SeaWorld numbers well Mike rinder says in this book you don't at least when he was back in the I guess it was the 70s didn't get fed very much on the sea org so no right um we would get penalized with weeks of rice and beans that was the only thing you could eat that's insane uh John Smith asks Chris do they still have connections to the Golden Dawn and if if so you have to explain what the Golden Dawn is because I don't know what that is yeah it's a it's a it's an origin story connection it's not a direct connection now the or the Golden Dawn the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn is an old occult practice and group and it's part of the origin story of L Ron Hubbard and Scientology it's where he drew a lot of inspiration and words and techniques from is occult practices of the early you know late 19 uh early 1900s late 1800s spiritualism occultism um Madame blavowsky you can look up her work Aleister Crowley uh L Ron Hubbard called himself a very good friend of Aleister Crowley that they never met but L Ron Hubbard liked to name drop and he followed Crowley's work and he was all about blood magic and Sex Magic and that's what that's where Scientology comes from but that doesn't mean that they're practicing blood magic in Scientology right now I got to be clear that it's that it's a different thing it's more that they took the tradition and the and the intent of those older occult practices and he worked it into the framework of Scientology so science biologists themselves don't know their own origin story is really the kind of the point of talking about that Jennifer Lynn asks do you think a large majority of scientologists know deep down that it's all Bs but they don't know what to do or how to leave or are scared to change so they just keep going I think that applies to some of them I think as time has gone on most of those folks have woken up and gotten off the fence and have left because it's really a pretty tiny group at this point but um yes I'm sure that there are still people who are in there because of that and feel that they can't leave because their wife their mother their father their kids whatever are so deeply connected that they don't want to disconnect or leave or be shunned or or upset that Apple card at all right so they they just kind of put up with it and do their best hmm did uh well I've asked that question um secret Watcher asked there have been other successful actors in Scientology as big as Crews so why don't they get the same treatment from the church as Cruz does I'm not sure there are any actors in the world as big as Cruz apart from Tom Hanks but yeah go on Chris yeah that premise is flawed there's no there are not other actors in Scientology anywhere near Tom Cruise's status um the only one who's Come Close was John Travolta in the 70s and 80s John Travolta was legit huge and then he made this gigantic comeback with Pulp Fiction in the 90s and now his career is tanked again so you know John travolt isn't really anything special now but he was in the past and he's he being the only other comparable person I can say John Travolta got the red carpet treatment too when he was that big and when he was you know glowing and and and and successful um the only difference is that Tom Cruise is that is that David miscavige never took his personal and interest or was never Bros with John Travolta the same way he is with Tom Cruise he he he David miscavigen Tom Cruise are Bosom Buddies Thomas mcnostral asks what do Scientologist weddings and funerals look like um pretty much like weddings and funerals of any other group they have their own vows and their own ceremonies written for scientologists that you know use Scientology speak but the but the ritual itself of a wedding and a ceremony and walking down the aisle and all that is same same and a wedding and a funeral ceremony a memorial service same same um I uh Ken asks are there scientologists that are also Masons maybe um but being a Freemason is kind of a secret thing so not something people talk about much I've met Freemasons outside of Scientology I never met any of them in okay uh Willow Lee is Shelley an example of leaving Scientology I guess you were saying before Shelly is Shelly miscavige I think right yeah a leaving Scientology no she's still we don't know we wouldn't know would you I guess we would we would probably have some idea if she if she left and uh I mean I I'm guessing of course I make some assumptions there but there is no Scientologist whose name is as famous as cabin um where's Shelly you know Kenyan Denning asks is there any way to awaken and inoculate the cult mindset so people will be aware enough to step away or not to join at all and also I would just add to that I mean what what you were saying this is what we were going to talk about we're gonna have to do another episode more just all about the cult mindset we'll do that in the next few weeks if you're free and we could do it that'd be great um but uh you know you were saying Tom Cruise has some of that and how could he but you did step out of it and other people did so it is possible to do right absolutely it is what it requires here's here's here's how I've come up with trying to describe this and I know this isn't this isn't awesome yet I don't have this all poorly worked out but basically what needs to happen in order for a person to snap out of it is they need it one or a series of moral transgressions that you know just moral violations that they cannot deny it doesn't have to be that something happens to you as a cult member let's say I'm a happy little Scientologist and one day I see something happen that is just a no that's not okay that's not right and it's undeniable like I'm told I have to disconnect from my mom or something and I love my mom and there's no way I'm ever going to disconnect from my mom that would be pushing too much too fast too far and I'm out I no that that can't be and you start once you once something happens like that then you can start questioning what's going on you kind of wake up out of the fog of you know oh it's also wonderful um It's that kind of thing right something has to happen to you or has to happen to somebody you know or love or care about in order to start seeing what's really going on you can produce that in somebody but it takes an awful lot of work it's not just a a you know a regular walk in the park kind of conversation you have to sit the person down they have to trust you you have to have a non-accusative non-antagonistic conversation or series of conversations and it takes a while to get people around to that because they're very very very well a good way of putting it is they're kind of fault they kind of fell in love with the cult you know what would it take to talk you out of you know being in love with your spouse it would take right yeah what would it take to talk you out of being in love with your cult same thing they would take a while it's really interesting because I just did an episode um which I've called The Cult of one I know I'm not the first person to say this but about relationships when you've got a narcissistic uh person or somebody with an antisocial personality disorder uh it can be like a cult of one that the partner has you know subscribed to and then can't get out of uh no the love bombing at the beginning there were so many similarities uh so I find that fascinating as well absolutely absolutely we've got we'll have to do like a cup oh go on sorry no I was just gonna say that was part of my study program in coercive control was looking at domestic violence and abusive relationship situations the same way that we looked at cult situations because the control Dynamics and the mechanisms that are used are the exact same wow so it's not different at all yeah that's what it is we have to do maybe a couple more questions and then if we come back on in a couple of weeks we'll talk more about coercive control and stuff and you guys can ask more questions I think because I got to go and have dinner soon on my um my my own Cult of one will uh eject me from my from my relationship uh Khan seanary asks do you believe Ron miscavage who has been very outspoken about the practices within the Scientology organization and even pointed to criminal activities so do you believe what he said one miscavage absolutely I do I in fact I had him on my podcast a couple times and I was on his yeah Ryan miscavage senior now he passed recently about six or seven months ago I think maybe a year ago is that David's father yeah David miscavige's father uh Ron miscavige senior uh great guy really really super nice guy and um and he was in for many many years decades and he escaped uh he and his wife did and uh he had he had great things to say about it oh that's nice um and yeah I believe him too uh Jennifer Roberts asks how realistic is Leah remini's I can never say her name what is it again Chris yeah remedy Leah Remini you put it on the first syllable remedy uh Leah remini's documentary as someone else said oh what a funeral's weddings like you've answered that already but how realistic is Leah remini's documentary it's it's to the comma accurate I I consulted on the second season of the show it's I was in it nice it's it's a very accurate representation of Scientology well there you go okay we can do a couple more questions because we've got 600 unless you're you need to suddenly go Chris uh just because you're doing but yeah let's go let's do a couple more and we maybe we can go to 20 past eight which is seven minutes time uh no say until I I don't know what a lot of these things mean so so if there is one that's like a okay so after being through three years of RPF I don't know what that is for phone Shenanigans I don't know what that is are you averse to trying it now with your wife is that a troll question is that a real thing no it's not I mean it's a silly question but I was sent to uh the RPF which is the sea orgs prison system it's a rehabilitation quote-unquote program okay the rehabilitation project Force the RPF I spent three years and three months in it uh before I graduated it there was a series of steps you have to do to prove that you are loyal to the group and rehabilitated as a spiritual entity and it took me three years to get through it and the reason I was sent there is because I had phone sex with somebody who wasn't my wife that's right I remember that now yeah and that happened and I did that and I'm not proud of it but it happened and this is not my current wife this was my C work wife I I was divorced when I left the sea org I've since remarried and I have not in any way engaged in a shenanigans on my current wife I love very much but um uh I forgot what was the question now oh yeah of engaging in phone sex now I I haven't done anything like that just to be completely transparent but I wouldn't have a problem with it with my wife the circumstances come up for that I think it was a joke question wasn't it um Sarah Sarah Banas asks uh and this is a good question what happens I guess in your opinion to Scientology when miscavige or Cruz die yeah tough question because it depends on the context but um I think that if uh if there's a peaceful uh passage of power possible then that's what's gonna happen somebody in Scientology will step up just like David miscavige did and take over there are people there who could do it uh or who could at least try to do it or maybe a group of people who could step up and I don't see that it's going to be a whole lot different from you know what happened after Joseph Smith died well this other guy took over and what happened after he died well a group of people took over and you see that in the JW's you see that in the in the Mormon church and you'll see that in Scientology I don't see any any reason why it would be different unless something happened externally like some kind of legal effort or other expose of you know kind of effort to uh to to take the place down uh which would be good because they do commit a lot of crimes Tim Greenglass asks would a Scientologist like Tom Cruise or David miscavige actually watch the South Park zenu episode for anyone who hasn't seen it it's obviously the South Park episode where they really really went at Scientology yeah no of course they wouldn't a scientologists are very very inoculated against anything that is anti-scientology skeptical or critical of Scientology they just won't watch it or have anything to do with it they they feel anything from a mild annoyance to outright rage over such things because they feel that they are constantly being misrepresented in the media because scientologists only see all the good parts or the parts that they think are good and they don't apply any critical thinking or skepticism to their views and they're not willing to give themselves the benefit of the doubt about scientology they're all in they have to be all in on it and that's where they come from on it and that's why they don't look at anything critical of it okay last one uh Captain gargoyle asks if L1 Hubbard who is the founder of Scientology if he was still running Scientology do you think you would still be a Scientologist yeah um no probably not um because elrad Hubbard didn't run a ship there was any tighter cleaner or better than David miscaviged as it was I mean David miscavich learned all his tricks from Hubbard you know it wasn't and he just made things worse but Hubbard was a was a madman and um and very delusional and and and not in a good way and I I don't think that that's something I would have uh stayed committed to any longer than I did Under miscavige Chris Shelton you've been fantastic thank you for being on the edge um I would just say to everyone thank you for coming I'm reluctant to end but we've both got to go but uh we've got a lot of people watching this which is great please uh like this whether you're watching on Chris's or mine or go to both of us if you want to help us out go to both the videos about on both of our accounts so go to both of them and hit like leave comments let us know if you want us to be doing this again maybe we can do it again maybe we'll do it every single minute of your life um make sure if you do one thing if you're from mine go to Chris's uh Channel And subscribe to him give him some love he's fantastic I'm a huge fan um and you know if you feel like it you're coming from Chris's or whatever you're new to this channel come subscribe to mine as well we love that and uh yeah that's all I can say Chris any any words to that effect any thoughts I'll I'll reiterate everything you just said and um and say this was fine I enjoyed doing this and it was fun to set it up so we were both streaming on both channels I've never tried had that before I hope you all like that let me know uh for folks on my subscriber base you know you want to see more of this kind of thing and if so what would you like to see I'm always uh open for new ideas yeah absolutely me as well same thing there I've set my one up to redirect to Sean Atwood's uh Premiere that he's got going on tomorrow my friend Sean obviously a lot of people came over from Sean to this one as well uh so you know it will it will automatically redirect have a look at that hit hit a like send a comment to him he loves it and uh much love to everyone and thank you Chris thank

Channel: Andrew Gold

Views: 963,788

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Id: eW2EFpmsQhA

Length: 78min 40sec (4720 seconds)

Published: Sun Oct 02 2022