The Stoked Bloke & Kelly Slater

hello peoples Welcome to The Stoke blog show I'm Barton Lynch joining us today on our show is one of the most interesting Surfers in the world maybe one of the most interesting people in the world he's an entrepreneur and a businessman a golfer a musician perhaps the greatest surfer of all time definitely the greatest competitor of all time the one and only the goat Kelly Robert Slater Robert Kelly yeah Robert first name Bob Bob I'm Barton Robert Lynch Bob's your uncle yep Bob's a middle name Bob was my father's name thank you so much for joining us man we appreciate your time I remember early days getting to know you well I mean I met you when I was young teenager you know you probably wouldn't remember the first time I met you but when we got to know each other it was in 93 we went to Fiji yes remember and that was the first time we really got to kind of hang out me you and Brock and yeah mitsui Todd mitsui Seth mckin yeah yeah and that so that was you you told me a lot about your dad at that time did I yeah and I was a World Champ then yeah and you I remember let's go way back let's start way back tell us a little bit about your mom and dad what they did how how where how you came to be my my mom was born and raised in Bethesda Maryland in a place called Germantown and um went to school there after after graduation she uh she had a boyfriend in high school um named cie cie Roberts and and um sheart killed me for telling the story but uh I but but they uh I only she only told me a few few years ago they got married out of high school wow um but it it was never meant to last kind of thing you know it was just a sort of I don't know many details about it but but the the reason I bring it up is because he owned a surf shop in um Ocean City Maryland right called the Sunshine House uh and and uh when we were kids we used to go to Ocean City a lot uh well occasionally in this if we went up to visit our cousins in Maryland in the summer we'd go out to Ocean City occasionally uh out to the beach and go surf or whatever we didn't really surf then we were so young but we we thought we surfed but there'd be we'd be on this whole Beach and there'd be no one surfing so we kind of thought oh we surf a little bit we're cool you know but then my mom at 19 moved to Florida with a friend of hers just out of high school and she I don't know if it was her first job but she got a job at Nasa um you know we're right by the Space Center there so I I grew up I was a huge part of my childhood was watching all the shuttle launches and the rockets and satellites taking off and it's a it's a it's just an inherent huge part of everyone's culture and and lifestock life in in Florida Central Florida um my dad was born in Okala Florida he was he went to high school in Daytona Beach um uh when I when I tell people who went to seab breze high they get pretty excited because a lot of people I've met over the years went to cbze high my grandfather was a builder my dad's dad and he actually built the original Daytona Speedway that they do the 500 at now but I I think it would have been different at the time different size and everything I'm sure they rebuilt it since then but I don't know the full history there but he was a contractor so he had that gig and he built a lot of um buildings throughout Central and South Florida my grandfather and um he eventually ended up in uh my dad spent his teenage years I don't know when he moved to Daytona but he went to University of Florida didn't graduate but went three years there um and then moved to Coco Beach at some point I don't know which year and my mom was on a date with another guy at some kind of restaurant or bar something and my dad and her caught eyes caught one eye cuz my dad had one eye my dad was actually blind in his left eye but I guess the uh my my mom said her date was kind of being aggressive with her or something and my dad kind of went hey beat it buddy you know but my mom said you know first time I saw your dad I knew I was like in love with him yeah and so they they um I think got married about 3 years later and had Shawn in 1969 I was born in 72 and Steph was born in 78 and then we live in K Beach we lived in the same house till I was like 11 um 12 maybe my parents split up when I was 10 or 11 about 11 years old um my dad drank a lot and both of them were struggling you know in their own ways I look back now and I I think gosh people really used to I mean they still do but people really used to get married and have a family young you know absolutely like straight out of college you're 22 you found your wife or husband and you're having kids and you got your job and you're getting married yeah and you got your family yeah and and it's it's fullon you know and then you're engaged in that for the rest of your life no you didn't get you didn't really get to live a lot of things you do you know um um that you want to or that you could do physically and all that kind of thing yeah so I mean I I kind of reference that just because at my age I'm still obviously competing and I've been able to um you know have that freedom to chase all my dreams yeah which has been really fun and you know you miss certain parts of life uh because of that I guess but it's a different you know I was on a different path yeah but my parents really their choice to live in Coco Beach really afforded me and my brothers the chance to just be on the beach and Surf and fish great lifestyle my my my uh parents went through tell ride Colorado my my parents both like to ski a little bit they went they drove through tell ride in like this would have been like' 6768 before sea was born and my mom said half the half the town of toride was for sale for $200,000 and my mom wanted to she was like hit your dad up you know let's spy this place let's move here to the mountains live in the live in the snow my dad was like no want to be at the beach ah so I mean if we had owned half a tell ride we'd probably be billionaires at this point well you'd be a snowboarder I'd be a snowboarder I'd probably be a skier you know back then gr up skiing right um and and maybe I would understand the snow in the mountains the way I do the ocean but um yeah no our destiny was to to to Our Fate was to be on the beach my dad wanted to camp and fish and hang out the beach and have a beer with the boys you know yeah so yeah we understand that yeah we ended up on the beach and and um you know I wouldn't I wouldn't change a thing I I know growing up you always you when I was my early 20s I had a lot of confusion about my dad it was really affecting my life you know it was really hurting me cuz I didn't understand why he drank and why he you know like he wasn't the dad that you know you you see on TV and the perfect you know what I mean you read about in a book or whatever but you know that wasn't my dad that wasn't who he was and and and um that's the thing about life is you wouldn't you wouldn't be who you are and know the things you are if it was at some different way exactly you know it might it might have made your life easier in a way to have it a different way but but you wouldn't have the experience that maybe you were meant to have whatever this spiritual uh lesson is in this world um but in my 20s I I would say in my 20s or even 30s I probably would have said yeah I do wish some things were different you know but now I look back and I go no I I really don't wish that at all it's like where your cards this is my my cars and you got to own them you know with the alcohol there's something I want to ask you about because you know one of your greatest contributions to our Sport and our culture has been essentially your sobriety and the fact that you weren't you know as well as I do that our history in our culture had a had a dark side to it and the drugs and the partying were massive and that's what all the cool kids did and if you didn't do that you weren't cool yeah you weren't you weren't very cool Bon hey I you were not very cool and it sucked me in a little bit no it sucked me in too that's that is the point for me is that it was hard to stand outside of that cool group and be yourself and keep your focus because you just wanted to be liked and be a part of everyone wants think about school think about you know um groups of people growing up I you know I think I was pretty fortunate in school because I was friends with pretty much everybody the emo kids the jocks the you know the kind of outcast I was sort of friends with everybody you know what I mean like the cheerleader girls or the football guys or what it didn't matter like I was a surfer there were there really weren't many Surfers in my school yeah right um I had no friends that surfed in my school like I I graduated a class of 107 kids I think not a very big graduating class I mean we'd start the year with about 500 kids and we had a dropout rate of about 10 or so percent that wouldn't finish yeah that wouldn't finish yeah and um which is very strange um Coco Beach was you know was CED as the small wave capital of the world that was a kind of a slogan for Ron John's is what it was but there was a really great contingent especially in the 70s of Florida Surfers Coco Beach had a huge surf population I would say in the 70s and maybe leading into the 80s but in the 70s like the Matt kley and the Charlie Coons and and the Mike tabling of the world all these guys before me that all went to kokab Beach High um it was a a really deep um group of of surf culture in my town and all those Surfers surfed at Third Street which is which was called The Islander Hut there was a little Beach Cafe there called The Islander Hut and um it was almost like the meeting place for everybody it was either that or there was a place in Indi atantic there's two two spots called one called Boardwalk which had a shore break and one called Ocean Avenue where Bruce Walker had his surf shop Ocean Avenue and kley and Jeff Kugel and and Lewis Graves and Jackie Grayson and Timmy Briars and all these great Surfers from back in that time pat MH MH was MTB he wrode his his dad had a shop MTB but all those guys they they hung out around Ocean Avenue a lot and and then when Sebastian was good everyone was to Sebastian but those were kind of like the pockets of surfers but that third street in KOCO Beach The Islander Hut was three blocks from my house my dad had a bait and tackle shop a block back from the beach on the on the road just behind so I spent my whole life in this little sort of um this Melting Pot of surfers on that beach yeah and U it created a lot of um it was just really good to see all these different types of Surfing there was some long boarders back then there was body boarding was coming big and there was you know there be a body Bard too and people still knee boarded yeah um and and but there were a lot of good short borders and this older contingent so I grew up around those guys and you know I've learned from them and uh do you remember the the very first time you saw someone surf or riding a wave no no no I was too young I I was it was around walking I wasn't walking I was you know I don't remember the first time I rode a board there's a picture of my dad kind of holding Shawn in the water or by a board when he was one or two yeah so I know if my dad was doing that my dad was surfing in the 60s that he would have any Surfer with half a brain tries to put their kid on a surfboard right away right so you are second generation essentially your dad was a surfer yeah yeah my dad wasn't I I I say my dad was a little bit of a c he wasn't like a really good Surfer he was blind in his left eye and he went forehand both directions because oh right he was a regular footer but he couldn't really see the wall of the wave he went left so he turned around and try to surf the other way but you know my D wasn't really he wasn't a real good Surfer he wasn't real serious about it he liked he loved the surf lifestyle he loved surfing but he never went on a surf trip other than to take us somewhere yeah and so with with with the drinking that you were exposed to that obviously had a big impact on you long term it did there there was one thing my mom said to me when I was a I was a young teenager and uh I didn't know what drinking meant yeah right I thought you drink water you drink you know drink juice yeah yeah I don't know what is drinking I didn't know that terminology I didn't know that what that meant and I remember my mom one day in the car I remember exactly where we were where driving in front of Jonathan's Pub which is where my dad used to drink one of the spots and my mom actually worked at one point so she could kind of keep an eye on him and uh and they're still they're still open to this day our friends family owned it one of my babysitters her her family owned it um and they have a sign that says home of the world's worst sandwich which is like ironic because everyone says the best sandwich around and and and then they I don't even know why they have locks on the door because they don't close even during hurricanes they literally never close they never locked the place um but we were driving right in front of that and remember I remember my mom it must have sparked something from my mom and uh it's like it's like it's almost like slow motion like I remember turning on to the to Second Street right there away from the the the the the bar and and it must have she must have thought about Jonathan she said something under her breath like your dad drinks too much or your UNC your grandfather said something about my grandfather being a drinker and my dad drinking and I go well I Dr what do you mean I drink water like I drink she goes no no no drinking like alcohol I'm like oh so that's what drinking is oh okay and she's like yeah they they drink too much and she goes try to find anyone in your life find anyone in this world that drinks and is successful with their life you know she's there's no one whose life got better because they drank or did drugs and my mom hammered that into me as a kid but I really remember the first time I understood what that meant yeah and and uh right then I just it it it was uh patterned into me to not do that you know what a gift yeah and and like any other anybody else you want to know what that is you know you and so when I was 15 I got drunk the first time I was in Australia with Jason button Shaw and and Josh pal Meer well they they would have been experienced by then maybe and Chris Brown and they were all a bit older than me like a year to two years older than me and uh we drank these like sparkly sort of uh coolers or something and I had like three or four and I was like I was 15 I was really drunk I was like oh I remember Chris Brown who was Chris was sober Chris had I think Chris had never drank at that point or he didn't do anything which is strange because Chris really got into kind of hard stuff but I remember at one point I was just like laughing and like oh this is fun or whatever and I looked at Chris and he looked over at somebody and shook his head and like disgusted me like about me to someone else we were there for a contest surfing and say a and the new zealanders and um I just remember catching Chris in the midst of my first drinking experience looking at someone like like kind of rolling his eyes about me and I was so ashamed I was like what am I doing and so I didn't drink again my the next time I drank I was 18 really so three years later and um the next time I drank again I think I think i' had only been drunk three times by the time I was 21 20 years old something like that so it's just like okay I I did that one I'm not and I wouldn't drink for another 18 months yeah and it was just like just an experience with the guys or something you know but it was just wasn't my thing I didn't I hated seeing my dad drink and smell like that you know he oozed of you know Florida's hot he wouldd be sweating and it would just ooze of alcohol and I hated I hated it man I hated it so much and um and it hurt my mom she'd stay up all night waiting watching every car she used to and she used to sit on the on the couch and look out this window window because we we lived on the street like we lived at the last Street before you there's a we live there was kind of peninsula that went out into the um onto the river and we're the last Street where all these three two or three streets come together so any car going past there would be a car that lived in that area because it dead ends so my mom would sit there all night and she would kind of look out the every single car that came by she'd be looking is that your dad is that your dad and it would gone for hours MH and it was just so sad and it drove it just it just wounded me you know like to see that and um and uh eventually it just became too much you know cuz you know nightly being out till whatever hour of the night or getting a call from the police that he crashed his car or something you know that kind of stuff and um so you know I try not to I was very very judgmental of drugs and alcohol when I was younger um and look everyone's got their own Journey yeah you know and it's not necessarily right or wrong it's like you got to learn the lesson from it and and um you know I I've dabbled here and there with some alcohol over the years because like going through a breakup and I you know you just sad and you want to like have fun or smile forget about things but it would it was I hated hangovers you know I just I never want to have a hangover again in my life I haven't had one for 12 years not a good look it's it's terrible it's it's horrible for your health it's it like it wastes your life essentially should be illegal shouldn't it you know if he could if he could if you could convince the society to that this is a bad thing and and have it out of the game it' be a much better world yeah it's well I mean look in a perfectly world I think it's wild that anything's illegal in a way in a way in in a way this is like this is in context yes um um but but if you're going to pick the better of evils it's crazy to me that things that like plants like marijuana is illegal yeah you know it's kind of becoming legal to grow yeah but that alcohol which is horribly deadly for your health for your addiction um for driving for other people for the for the for the health of the community is is is legal yeah and that's that's uh that's wild to me it's backwards it is you know 100% and not the we you know you promoting any of it the point is that you know it's destructive isn't it we've seen it I've been the victim of that destruction you've seen my head when I've been the victim of that destruction at that airport in Tokyo yeah after getting you know acting like an idiot who I saw you on the beach in Miaki that's what was that where the photo was it was it at the airport no I saw you in Miaki you got to Miaki I couldn't even remember what happed pulled up the beach yeah I just remember Rod Kerr telling me the story have you do people know this story have you talked about this story really about that story too much but it was a nightclub in Japan and when we would lose the Habit was the losers would then get a train to rongi in Tokyo and we'd rent some rooms and spend some nights going out and we went in the first night there was 15 of us second night there were five third night there was just me and box and on that occasion fourth night it's sad man four fourth night on my head was beaten to a pulp and and I learned my lesson throwing punches when you can't fight and an American Military guy beat the [ __ ] out of him Marines I got held and beaten unconscious and it was you know lucky the human body does what it does and just blacks you out at a point of too much pain and goes sorry you don't need to deal with this you can deal with it tomorrow so I got a picture of Barton yeah um the next day and his face was literally twice the size and he couldn't really I couldn't even see if his eyes would open and he was just it was insane it was totally insane I got mango beaten up to so I I I have that I have that in my catalog somewhere at home and I'll find it but it's it's one of those ones that's great to come out 30 40 years later you know exactly yeah so we are here you and I surf to heat let's take our minds back 1989 198 because you're were 88 World Champ right yeah and I was 17 and ' 89 and we surfed against each other in new samna the only contest that John shoka won on tour was that contest rest in peace the aloe up cup yeah did you that one yeah and um Tom Carol and and um Dave McCaul made the final the year before in ' 88 and uh just a side story I was I was about maybe 15 or 16 I'm walking up the street at Main Street in Huntington Beach and I'm at the I'm at this traffic light and I'm going to go to Jan's health bar to have a sandwich and as I'm standing at the light and the light could take a long time sometimes you know and then like thousand people filter over the street at at the op Pro yeah yeah so stand light I'm listen to this guy talk to another guy next to me and he's telling this guy how he stole Tom caroll's board off the beach at new smna beach and and he and he has the board what like he's like I took the board like why would you tell someone why do why are you telling people this in public right and I'm just like a fly in the wall hearing this conversation I'm like what why and at this point I already knew Tom yeah no I had known him for a few years I met him when I was 10 and we kind of knew each other I'd been around Tom and spent a little time with him here and there like probably five or six different times so he he knew me as a little kid and I walk across street and I'm walking next to the guy we walking up the street and I'm like just see him I'm remembering his face you know I'm like this is a scene of the crime right here and I walk up to Jan's and I walk in and Tom was right there and I go Tom I just saw a guy telling another guy how he stole your board off the beach he goes mate that was my favorite board he go where is he and ran outside and we tried to look for the guy and we couldn't find him but Tom said it was his favorite board and he was trying two boards and he left one on the beach and the guy snag one and took off just threw it in his car and drove away kind of got to love it he's got a souvenir for life I know I wonder if we could find that guy and tell the story one day but he he'd be dobbing himself in that he's a thief he did that's 35 years ago mate we surf that H yeah 35 yeah and you're still there the story was that was that was my first wild card on to a world tour in a world Tour event and Barton was world champion I was the the um lowest seed so in the in the seated rounds I would get the highest seed he would get low seed and it was high tide he was running rights and it was pretty fun it was right near the beach and you kind of finish a wave and run back cuz the current that would have been a South Swell cuz normally there's not much current at new smyna yeah so it was all ripping up and then we'd run back up and um the one thing I remember about that is the either that day or the day before I was at my friend Luke pemberton's house I was staying at his house and and or hanging out with him and I I had closed my finger in his garage door and it had these four panels that would come flush together and my finger got stuck and it completely squished my finger and I had just like I fell asleep with my finger my hand in ice but anyway so Barton and I surf this heat and I'm I'm leading actually up until like the last two minutes and then Barton gets a nine and beats me takes me out I thought I was lambed to the slaughter it was set up you know well I was definitely the home Crown homeown hero like I had the big crowd on the beach for me all I was running back up I remember Rich Rudolph and different is running with me man you got him you just keep that turn going you know whatever look for this kind of wave and um and and uh and and Barton don't like this but uh I had an extra motivation because leading into this conversation now what Barton was talking about with drugs and alcohol I remember being out at 9:00 at night the night before seeing Barton smoking a cigar or something and pounding alcohol like pound he was really drunk and maybe you're smoking a joint or something and and I was like you know what [ __ ] this guy I'm going to [ __ ] beat this guy so bad tomorrow he's like I'm like he does not deserve this position you know I lost I lost respect for you in that time because I had such a a a moral sort of righteousness in my mind about this thing right and so I I felt like I had this higher purpose to beat you tomorrow yeah you know and I felt the I felt the opposite of that I was embarrassed for myself I remember thinking you were there and thinking in some hotel room yeah a hotel room you doing I didn't even know what I was doing I would left by 9:00 P I remember it was about 8:30 9:00 and I'm like I'm out of here I'm going to bed right now I'm going to get this guy G skis and I remember going there feeling like I was lamed to the slaughter because I stayed up late that night I was partying it was ridiculous and um and that was just pure that was one of them Heats where it was just pure it wasn't anything to to brag about or it was just pure luck almost in that sense that somehow things went my way to the back end of that heat how do you 35 years from that moment how have you stayed so relevant so competitive more or less in a moment you can be at the top of your game in a moment of focus or at a particular wave too that that rises to yeah potential potentially I mean like I'm I'm not in denial I mean I I know people are like oh he's not competitive now if I'm in the right head space and I want to be yeah I can be competitive I think at any break I agree um and and I don't think that's like I'm trying to Big up myself or something you know like I just it's rare that I want it now yeah I to be honest like the reason the only reason I'm competing at this point was because I had this I never had an Olympic dream growing up because we didn't have the Olympics yeah one those and and um that wasn't the reality my you know my big goals were I want to win contest and I want to be a world champion and and winning a contest was just below being a world champion you know winning an event on tour even one event on tour it's a big deal you know so and um so each one to me was like an Olympic medal every single contest we're in potential to be like this Glory moment in your life and uh I was I was with um my friend trinko yesterday who shaped some boards he's he's uh um Keo sing's Godfather and he was best friends with Schmo and um he's from Puerto Rico but moved here when he was like 13 years old or something and he shapes me some boards we surf together on the North Shore here and stuff we were together yesterday and and um I said he was showing me videos of uh keanu's nephew or something and and I was like we were talking about Keanu and I said how cool is that that keano won a contest on tour yeah and he beat Gabriel and in the final he beat John John in the semi-final you can't go through a better challenge to win a contest on tour today in the Modern Age than to beat those two guys they're the number one and one right it's not one and two it's like they're you're splitting hairs there on you know I think you could maybe you could argue I don't know maybe John's the slightly more naturally talented Surfer Gabriel is the better competitor but can do everything amazingly in every wave you know like it's and maybe they're both equally as talented and everything I don't know but um but just that that goal of winning one event on tour it's it's a lofty goal most guys will finish their their uh career without winning a contest maybe not making a semi-final and um you could be on tour for 10 years and not win a contest but still like kind of hang around the top 16 yeah um I mean for for me I I'm the Olympics only became even the last Olympics I didn't really care right and this one I went it's France so it's going to be Chu and I was like okay I care again there's a new goal and and um so and and realistically yeah look I if if I'm if I'm focused and I'm and I want it Chop's in my wheelhouse you know it's you could it's well it's it's it's it's what wakes me up in the morning that's the kind of way when I was a kid I woke up because I was because it might be glassy in the morning and it might be a little tube me and my friends are 10 years old and we got our new board yeah and and we're we we've stripped the wax off our board and we got it beat it up you know we took the hairy dryer and we got all the old wax off and we made this wax ball and we now we're going to you know let the board cool down we're going to slowly like draw lines and then do beads you know what I mean so you're dreaming you're dreaming about this this event tomorrow that event tomorrow is we're going to get out there see who gets the first wave so you get the best tube so you can get a tube because the waves are so small in Florida and we'd race our bikes up to the beach in the morning like me and Sean and Troy proper and Sean O'Hare and like we had this little group of they were all a little older than me but we'd race up so you could race there the fast this and oh my God the way let's go and we'd race home from my house straight to the beach is three blocks from where I grew up and it's slightly uphill so there the hole of uh Coco Beach used to be like a a sand dune before there was houses and the Dune is maybe at that Peak 15 ft high or something you know and from sea level yeah but from my house which is like a sea level we'd go up over three blocks you go up 15 ft high right so you're kind of like bird's eye view of looking out at the ocean in Florida and we riding home the waves like we're excited we're going to go surf so we start racing back down the hill at 50 you know over the course of I don't know is that a one degree gradient or something so we're racing home and I put my feet up we're right by the fire station used to be a fire station right there and I go for about a block as far fast as I can and I put my feet I I wrapped both my feet up above the front tire and my foot got stuck between the frame and the tire ah the side of my foot and that little and it it acted like a break and I completely grinded down like sanded down the top of my foot and I couldn't get it out until the bike stopped and I remember just going like it and and just like and I looked at my foot and it was just white and like flesh sh shredded and before the pain could even hit I rode home and I was screaming and my mom was like why didn't you just go to the fire station we got to go back up there cuz I rode like when it happened I was right in front of the fire station but I wanted my mom you know yeah but um so there's no surfing for me for a little while there I still got scar in my foot from it look at this thing this this whole thing right here was grinded off completely I can see it and um uh but yeah that that was the as a kid we were just dreaming you know like we we were imagining these pictures on our wall of pipeline or Burly heads or Jeff Bay or something and you go out and you surf these tiny waves and you imagine drawing the same lines you would at slower speed in a smaller canvas yeah um you know coming to the Modern Age obviously I've been doing this forever and I mean it's a joke how long I've been competing now I really and and and um and I guess in a way because of that that that choice to try and figure out if I could find a spot on the Olympic team I look I haven't been excited about going contest to contest for 10 years really literally that Lit literally yeah I mean when when people people you know people kind of like uh make fun of me for talking about retirement but Parco and I and this isn't like 200 five or six or something maybe earlier 2004 we were on tarua and Parco said he was going to do one more year and I was like how good does that sound be done just this grind it's just just going just this repetitive monotonous which which is unfortunate to even feel that way because as a kid all I wanted to do was surf against Barton Lynch the Alo up Cup in 1989 get that wild card yeah you know like that was even just to have that heat was a huge for me it's a huge memory in my life yeah just that one heat you know that's how important it is to you and so you when you get jaded and now you've done all this these things it's like of course you're always looking forward in life you want to do something bigger and better more exciting and different and and that's the nature of of addiction you could say yeah right somebody drinks one drink and they get oh they feel that then next thing you know that you know they call it the Gateway but you know you always got to go further to get some other new feeling and and so for Surfers maybe that's got to be a bigger wave a gnarlier situation you're pushing yourself even further you're riding something that's more dangerous and as far as competition I can't really get that anymore you know I've surfed all the contest I wanted to serve as many times as I can yeah and but to do the Olympics would that would stimulate that would stimulate a different thing so I mean I said if I if I could have figured out in these years how to it was always going to be hard to compete my way on to it because I just I don't wake up in the morning caring about surfing a heat I just I really don't I like surfing I like there's certain ways I love and there's certain Heats against certain people I really to Surf against John or Gabriel or you know it's certain waves to Surf against John a pipeline or choke for me that's the Pinnacle of Surfing competition at this point and John and I done we surf against each other in Fiji couple times at toiti a couple times a few times at pipeline maybe three times since he was a little kid and um made a final here at pipe in in Big 8 10 foot surf so those are those are things that I'm just so appreciative that I was able to have the chance at um you never imagin 10 11 world did you ever go I want to win through more than M say he's one full I want to but did you ever have how on Earth did you get to a Liv was that ever a concept that you aimed for I sort of yeah not before I started no no no no no that was it was building on it because I was I was very humble about competition when I was young I was very um I remember talking in my house one day about I was with Shawn and my my mom was there maybe but Sean and a couple of our friends and we're talking about one of our friends who surfed and he had never even won a contest and I said I don't want to talk about this if I if if I can't if I don't you know if if you don't think I can surf as well as him because I I don't have the right to say you know yeah like I I shouldn't critique him if I can't sort of match that you know and and so I was always really aware like I didn't want to I knew I was winning contests I knew I could compete well and win but I didn't I wanted to feel inside like I was better yes and I want to have this confidence that I was better than anyone but I also didn't hold myself and say like I am better than yeah you didn't have an ego that was connected to that there's a healthy ego there's a healthy ego confidence ego whatever ego's part of that but there's also um it's also good not to have that so you got to keep that in check and my mom always kept me in check and that's the thing you know for for as much as I have I've said a few things over the years about my mom where she's been really like like hurt by things I said you know um but my mom instilled a lot of really great ideas in me you know did you and I and I and those ring those would ring through my head in my lifetime so I would always rever my mom would always say if you ever get cocky I'm gonna beat your ass you know she was like I will beat that out of you love and so she would just and she never was going to beat me but it was you got the point if I had someone keeping me in my Lane yeah and that was important because that gave me respect for my competitors it gave me respect for other people's skills and if you don't respect you know I've I've surfed against plenty of people over the years that I didn't respect their level I didn't respect their skills I didn't think they were good enough for something in my own mind yeah maybe maybe up cup you some probably that night you no but no I no I I I did have a lot of respect because I knew you were a better Surfer Than Me by far you know um but meaning meaning that like when I was sort of you know at my Peak competing with my skills Etc I would think maybe there was Heats I was scared of and the wrong ego took over where I was thinking there's no way I should lose this heat I should win this heat instead of going you know what I got to do my best to beat this guy and you have to keep that humility about yourself in in at the peak of your everything you you have to and but it's hard to stay that disciplined um sometimes you want to experience what is it like to not be in the mind I have I want to I want to feel what it's like to to to approach it differently maybe something else works better maybe a different mindset is actually more rewarding or more relaxing or more you know cuz I've been disciplined for so long that sometimes I just [ __ ] hate it you know I feel like I've gone crazy really like honestly like there's a there's a part of me that has gone crazy in my mind over the years because of this drive to to have s I don't know to push myself as far as I can and um and you need to feel the pain of that and you also need to come back then and say it's okay and it's all right you you know you're just trying your best when did you first realize because would it it would seem that your competitive Drive is beyond that of a normal human you know normal competitors you know I remember winning that world title and kind of never being the same Mongrel ever again I never had that drive again because that satis I didn't think I was going to ever do that anyway everyone no one told me I was everyone said you weren't you know I mean I remember I remember when you won that I was here watching that you won during the bong Pro wasn't the mobile event didn't Luke make the final yeah you I was talking to Luke about that the other day in the water like month ago but I was here watching from off the wall at that contest and that was the one where Tom Caroll had the heat with Todd Holland Holland got the yeah I I was 16 I was watching that I was just like oh my gosh I actually still thought I thought Tom had beaten I sorry I thought Todd had beaten Todd anyways Tom so I'm on the beach I watch I thought Todd won the heat without an interference I thought well I watched it and I went oh he's win and then I went I left because I didn't want to I just didn't want to entrench myself I went home and I came back and people like Tom lost I'm like stop it don't I thought that were just bullshitting me you know like no no no then I turned around but Todd Holland put on a show didn't he he was Char charging he did that flip in the barrel on that way I mean Todd was Todd people don't understand you know I no one talks about Todd's stuff now you know because it's it's a whole gen couple Generations removed Todd Holland was so crazy man he used to charge so hard he used to go out to off theall in days where people were surfing second reef and he would surf by himself at off theall and pull into CL outs I remember when we were teenagers Todd went out to WEA he was on that NSSA team and he went out to WEA and I remember thinking well he Sur why man that's crazy he was a teenager and he paddle for away and missed it like a 15 18f footer and somebody else was in the water told me the story where he missed it he was on the back of the lip and he tried to paddle and he got sucked backwards and he just went and step went up side his board window that falls backwards and I was just thinking how does someone survive that how does someone from Florida survive that and go back out you know but Todd Todd was Todd was gung-ho man he was he charged so hard and you know he wasn't the best pipe guy like you wouldn't expect him to beat Tom Carol at pipeline because I think Tom's the best ever at pipeline in my opinion um we might put you in and Mike Stewart yeah um uh but but uh you know Todd just had a absolute 100% belief in himself I mean he won the OB Pro yeah you know he won a lot of Heats that people wouldn't have expected Todd to win he just had this drive he had this competitive desire I wondered that you growing up seeing us you know we grew up watching Mark Richards sha Thompson rabert Bartholomew Michael ho Dano that generation fight for heat WIS yeah and so we grew up fighting for heat winds I suppose four people four people in the Heat best four waves 20 minutes you're not someone's not getting them and if you you know and I always look at it refer to it like you're at a family and there's not enough food for everyone at the table and you got to get in elbows and all to get food yeah you growing up and seeing that um competitive Behavior do you think that showed you like a depth of commitment but also a way to compete or an ability to compete that maybe your contemporaries in your generation weren't quite as aware of as you because you you had them you had most of the people in your generation it would seem whether they were asleep or whether they were too busy engaged in wanting to be liked and respected for other reasons or whatever the point was you had all their number and I often wonder whether it was the lessons you learned from the generation before you that put you into a position of competitive superiority I I think it was obviously I learned from watching you guys you know like um I'd hear stories of rabbit and different guys that were just Scoundrels in the water you know Damen Hardman are you kidding me good Scoundrels yeah and and so I knew that that was one angle but even at school I was really competitive with a lot of things like I won the spelling be in my school and went to the County Spelling me you know I I um I would win um like there'd be uh uh we'd have these uh track and field things at school and and and I won a bunch of those you know running and obstacle courses and um I remember one time I was really quick and I we used to play um flag football yep and you wear a flag on either hip Y and the other team would try to pull it off and then you're you know you got to change the ball whatever you give the ball away and I remember this I I got really good at it and so I remember even the teacher was in on it our PE teacher our physical education teacher was in on it they the whole other team said just go for Kelly because I would I kept scoring and and I remember I remember the it was the the PE teacher her name was Miss did and Miss dter I remember her looking at other kids like Now's the Time and they all were coming from me and so because they were all focused just on me they all I saw the whole field go this way you know I ran to the right yeah and I was like they're all going to follow me I'm going to D double back and I'm going to go that way and I and the whole other team couldn't catch me and it I wasn't the fastest it was just that I understood how the field worked you know and it I was not the fastest um Runner there was other kids that could run you know there was always two or three kids that were faster than me but I could outpos and kind of I I remember seeing this whole I my the people on my team plus those people okay I got to get that guy to run that way so that person's in their way and it's like it was like a game to me I mean obviously it's a game but I I it was a way from my mind to try and figure out how to maneuver and win yeah and um um and and I really enjoyed I always loved competing and my mom love she always talked about how she loved to compete and she was good at things but she didn't have time to be great at anything you know she had kids and she had a life and job and all that stuff so I don't know I just my my mind would race on these ideas on how I could get better competitively and and then it all Ed me when I got into surfing and um but to answer your question about the world titles I used to I used to play games with myself in the water and and I'd be pading for a wave that I couldn't catch and I'm like if I can catch this wave I can win six World titles like I just threw a number out my head yeah and I would somehow catch that wave I'm like [ __ ] it's possible it's possible you know and um in in 97 we were in Gand um the the second uh third year in Gand and that was my the year I won my fifth world title but it was halfway through I'd won four so I was tied with Mr Right um but he got four in a row yeah so I was like I want to get four in a row and then I remember being there with Bruce Raymond who Bruce was my boss at Quicks over Gand was a Quicks over contest it was halfway through the year we're in June now June or July whatever it was and and uh I was super burned out just all those years you know from basically 1990 full-time Pro on on tour from halfway through 91 after I graduated and so now I'm going like basically six seven years of straight all year long just Heats contest Focus discipline and um and heartache you know relationships that had broken up and all this stuff and and and um I said to Bruce I said look I'm I'm struggling this year like my batter is really low and I'm I'm like I'm I almost feel done with this whole thing you know and and he goes well you you know Bruce is always supportive he was never pushing me like a a sponsor like you have to get out there and do this he just said look you whatever feels right to you just do the do what feels right he would always tell me that and I said look here's my plan Bruce I said if I can win the world title this year I'm going to do one more year because it's the only time in my life I'm G to have the chance to to uh do more than four World titles in a row and uh I said so I'm going toich this year goes I'll put my best effort in through the rest of the year but I said if I don't win the title this year I'm going to I'm going to retire for you know for some period of time but if I do I'm full on in next year and I'll train and everything and and uh I never really like training you know I I just like to Surf a lot you know I feel like if I surfed a lot my cardio is pretty good my strength was okay it wasn't amazing but it it was good enough you know we're surfing 5 to 15 second long rides yeah you know how how trained up you you got to be you know what I mean you don't got to be been in the gym do you stuff like that yeah a little bit I mean I I like I like to if my cardio is really good I like that because if the waves get big I want to be comfortable yeah but I don't I never felt like we had to have this crazy weightlifter strength yeah you know but I was around Tom I was traveling with Tom and stuff Tom Carol and and Tom was really fit you he's always doing his his uh you know gym exercises and he taught me a lot about diet and he he got me in the right mindset um to take it you know to to act professionally about my career um but um so I ended up you know I won in 97 and I was just like wow I okay I did it but I'm and in 90 96 and 97 were my best years ever on tour um statistically right you know 90 97 96 I won seven of 13 events 96 seven I won five of 13 wow or five of 12 so I won like half the events in two years and and uh and I was just burnt yeah I was just so burned out but I had also started golfing in 95 and golfing was like you have a bad hole and you come back the next hole and kind of make up for it and I I had talked to you about this last year you know we me and you still need to go golfing one day because I I want to show you like you can think whatever you want about golfing like I think about Cricket yeah you know what I mean boring as hell but the the the act of repeating this thing so that you know where that Ball's going to go it doesn't matter where it goes doesn't matter what how it flies as long as it goes to the area you want it to yeah but and then there's a whole set of rules and an honor System and not everyone's watching you so you got to be honest with yourself you know there's this this honor System in that way and the surrender of all the stuff in here the expectation between holes and the thoughts you got to get rid of the thoughts and just go back to the purity of the feel a lot of things that relate to surfing and um and uh you know you know in the water if you snake someone yeah you know there's a got feeling did I need to do that you know and and the same thing on the golf course like did you you know you'll see you see somebody mark their ball and they might put the ball two inches close to the hole or they'll mark it in front of the ball but then when they get the ball back they put the ball in front of the marker like there's little or or you might kind of move this rock or move the ball in the sand and there's you know and you're the honesty is with yourself yeah like you would let yourself do that unless you're surf unless you're competing on the PGA tour professional tour and you're being filmed none of that it doesn't matter if you took if you took 50 cents off your friend who gives a [ __ ] you know or five bucks who cares but you know it's more of like how do you feel inside and did you do the right did you did you obey that set of that that set of rules for the game you played whether it's cards it doesn't matter what it is you're moral dignity isn't it yeah yeah and and you're learning thing and then you might have a horrible hole and the other guy has a more horrible hole but because you did the right thing maybe you won the hole and you're like okay I did the right thing you get this feedback you know and you feed off that Loop and and so um I would just play that game with myself from golf right and and so those next couple years I I did so well competitively because of my drive I had a bigger goal I wanted to win I wanted to win five World titles in a row yeah I wanted to be really good at my craft I wanted to get better I wanted continually get better and and everything about surfing appealed to me I love board design I love working with Al you know Al was like a dad to me Al was like the dad I never had yeah you know he filled in all those parts of my dad that wasn't there between Bruce Raymond and Al Merrick Y and and and one or two other people around the world that were really good male influences to me they filled in sort of those place I felt like I miss with my own dad yeah and so it was okay you know it it it it it made it whole yeah if you will helped make you whole yeah it help make my experience whole or whatever but yeah but then I so I W in 97 and I was like okay [ __ ] here it goes the whole thing's on the line from in my mind the whole thing my whole life my whole career everything to me is on the line I'm gonna do this one last bet I'm G to double down yeah on this one last bet because I got it I'm G to try to win six but it's going to be five in a row and that's really that was the Pinnacle for me yeah and the only doubt I really have my mind at that point was 93 when I ended up I got fifth in the world after i' been I've been reigning world champ and then I came fifth but I I almost didn't re-qualify that year people don't realize that part wow um I was outside of qualification with four events to go and we went to Japan and I got I think Fifth and second oh no sorry Fifth Fifth and first I got fifth in miak I think and then I got first against Chris Brown at hibara beach and then all of a sudden well came back in the within the top 16 maybe I was in top 10 already and then I I got second I think we went to Brazil and I got a fifth or ninth and then I came we came here and I got um second to Derek and Derrick won his title D but I ended up tied for fifth with pots and they broke the tie I this a funny thing because I went to Al hunt and I said Al just keep me in fifth when you show the rankings he goes why and I go cuz my contract gives me an extra I get an extra like 25 or $50,000 for f top five yeah if I'm top five and he broke it and put me in six like ah you bastard he would too but um no I just but I feel like that was the year I put it all on the line and I was struggling between enjoying my life and outside of Surfing yeah and having fun while I'm traveling and soaking it all up I was struggling between that desire which I never really like embraced had embraced before and and and my competitive desire yeah and and so I you know that was the year I came into pipeline behind mck Hamill and Danny Wills oh yes and um you know once and and what what you said about Tom Carroll losing at pipeline to to Todd Holland and how you came back and you couldn't believe it yeah it was the same way for me I was sitting up in the Johnson's yard there and I'm watching this heat Ross one of my best friends is surfing as Danny wills and to be honest Ross is really good at back door but he was never a pipe guy you know he's more of a back door guy and it was mostly lefts but Danny grew up in right in rights right right points so he wasn't a pipe guy either so I thought Ross definitely has the advantage here because he obviously he's better at pipe and more experienced than Danny um and and because backd door wasn't really like and for whatever reason in their heat they weren't getting back door waves so it was turned into a heat of lefts and I was like okay well that's definitely Advantage Ross but Ross broke his board or broke his fin off his board and had to swim in you know they weren't like jet Sky assist and Danny had priority and there was like seven minutes left and he needed like seven or six maybe you only need like a six and he took off on this perfect wave and he bottom turned and he fell now there's like no time left in Ross has priority and I'm sitting up there and Tom Carrol's with me and I [ __ ] started crying and I just broke down I was like my whole like my whole life my whole dream of my life competitively is in the balance right here and it's in it's in my hands it's now it's it's it's totally on me it's not on anyone else I got to go win this Heat against Rob Machado yeah and it was another you know because we had the heat 95 yeah high five but this is 98 yeah and now I got to beat Rob and there's nothing in the line for Rob other than personal yeah you win doing well trying to win pipeline yeah but there was no um position in the rankings that were in the balance for Rob you know um and it was it was more of just like now it's you know a guy who's one of my best friends on tour Mick and Danny were like com comrades trying to take me out you know what I mean a two on one there was a whole lot of weird scenarios because me Danny and Mick all serf for Quicksilver and we're all close with Tom Carroll we're all close with Bruce Raymond we're all like we're we're a team we're on the same team but they're Aussies and we're Americans and now instead of it being me against sunny against Rob in '95 now uh you know essentially me and Rob are kind of on the same team but Rob is not going to go out there and let me win yeah and I I would imagine if I were on the other side of it and seeing like an Aussie against an Aussie like if it's Mick and Joel right best buddies surfing together growing up and if one of them wins this just this heat that doesn't really matter to the other guy yeah yeah yeah and he wins the world title he wins he lishes his life goal you would think that's massive right you would think okay well Parco might just give this one up for Mick or vice versa a little bit Yeah and but Rob this is the thing people don't know about Rob is like Rob's [ __ ] competitive as hell man I mean smokes me on the ping pong table he's he's good at golf he's good at tennis Rob's good at like everything he does and and um after the heat happened and I won the heat we all celebrated Rob celebrated you know but Rob didn't try to give up to me at all it just turned out some crazy back door waves came and I got them but I talked to Rob after and and um and he said to me he goes you know right before that heat I was nervous so I called my brother and Rob's brother Justin is like he's a jock he's a baseball player he takes no [ __ ] from anyone he's a big dude and and he's just and he's like a you know he's always been like a big brother to me like he'll put me in my place he always put Rob in his place and and he talks [ __ ] to you you know you know like he helped Rob's Rob's family Rob's brother and his dad helped stimulate my competitive fire in my whole life from when I was a teenager I used to live with them at times you know for for periods of time weeks at a time Rob and I travel together but Jim Rob's dad who recently passed away and um and and Justin his brother they talk they were the biggest [ __ ] talkers I've ever been against competitively they had no fear they're like Michael Jordan those guys they were like the masters of [ __ ] talking to you is incredible and and so Rob told me after the heat he said you know I I was kind of nervous cuz I I didn't want to give you the heat I didn't want to you know I didn't want to lay down and look like a [ __ ] Bas what he told me and he goes he goes I I I called my brother I called Justin and Justin said you know what you go out there and you try to kick his ass you do everything in your power to kick his ass in his heat do do not give him one inch yeah and he goes and Rob goes that's what I did you know that's why it's going to be yeah and he goes he goes you shouldn't be champ if you can't beat me you know that's what Rob basically told me and I was like man I I respect that I love that it looks like it still brings up emotions that moment you can still feel that moment you know it it brings up the concept of peing at the right time well Tom just on that note I mean Tom I've told a story before but Tom was hugely um helpful maybe the most helpful for me at that moment because Tom grew like Danny Wills grew up with Tom you know and so Tom watched that heat it must have been hard for Tom because he's watching a kid he helped to kind of Usher into this thing and surf for them his whole life and he watched them just kind of fail in this moment and but he was still ahead of me in the points and then Tom went and helped me and we went and just did some yoga and did a meditation and Tom helped me calm down CU I was crying I was a mess you know I'm like I can't believe this opportunity has been given to me in this lifetime is how it felt yeah I knew it I knew it was all right there yeah it was the the the the potential Glory or low Point moment of my life and Tom helped me through that you know and he just said you know good luck gave me a hug and told me you love me and we were both crying and I went out and did my thing you know it's a beautiful thing and that and then that was when I went I'm that was your fifth in a row yeah it was my fifth in a row my sixth and I went you know what I need some time off and I I need to go have some fun yeah in in your success in anybody's success there's a certain amount and you said the word magic right you in my mind have tapped into the magic and maybe the Magic's peing at the right time and when one of those performances say the early rounds you're not doing very good but you have this deep faith in yourself I don't need it now I had one of those against you once at Reunion Island this in about 96 maybe or something 95 we had this heat and you had started out with like an 85 and the wayes are remember it's really big one year and it was really hard you had to get the in between waves cuz the big ones were like I remember poto catching the giant ones and going out into the channel doing nothing on them because they were just mushy and the good ones were sitting back on the reef in between the sets it was like 12T out the back huge yeah by the way there's no way I'd surf St Lou right now way out the back where we were because there's so shot might be legal I had been playing shuffle board in that hotel we were at right by there and and you you each got like three or four of those little ski ball it was it wasn't sh whatever one of those things and and um somebody could be beating you on the very last one you could do Hail Mary and knock all their things off and win yeah right and we and all the boys are playing this and I remember I was in this heat with you and it was in maybe it was for Ninth Place or something kind of early in the contest and and uh I remember seeing you get the wave and hearing you get an 85 and I was now I was like kind of in the hole in the Heat and it was a long paddle and I had caught a couple ways already that had been like threes or four like they weren't good scores got to replace those yeah and I thought all I can do is be in control of this SEC of this moment in my and how I feel right now I can't think about what's going to happen in 12 minutes or yeah you know and so I started doing this sort of almost like an active meditation excuse me where I started thinking how does the water feel on my hands when I paddle and this stroke and and think about each be purposeful absolutely present be completely present and purposeful with every action you do every thought you have and so I just started thinking instead of worrying about what's coming or which wave I'm going to catch all I can do is enjo I got to enjoy this [ __ ] we just traveled all the way to Reunion Island from the other side there's a 48 hour trip to get here you know I'm like just enjoy it and so each paddle I was enjoying I was just feeling it and I just got I did something that caused my brain to get super present and my next wave I think I got a nine and then I beat you in the Heat and I was like I think I was comboed at the time but I went wow what a positive that I talked about feedback loop and thought what a positive feedback loop I did something that helped me feel better and I ended up winning from it you know it put me in a place that gave me the opportunity and so I started doing that that was that was um that was 90 I'm sure it was 96 95 or 96 but that was when I really went on my I that was the moment that Heat against you was that was the moment I felt like I went on my winning Street for the next couple years wow because you you found out of the desperation of that moment you found a way to bring yourself completely present and enjoy every moment of it and then the rest of it around you took care of itself yeah then you just then you're just making then you're just picking out the thing because when you're that's like the Matrix movie right and when you get really in that flow anybody can do this at any time you know you can get there just the right thought or the right choice or whatever um but then you then you feel like you're just picking things off the buffet yeah you know you're not trying to to force a you know I was watching um there was somebody in a heat you were commenting comment doing commentary for the other day at the Isa games it was um it was Sebastian Williams oh yeah in the heat he lost right and he kept trying to catch these waves and force things to happen yeah and I saw it happen a little bit with Leo and the heat he lost too but you could see the energy you know you can you can feel it when somebody stands up on a wave you can feel with with with Medina last week you're like kid's not going to put a foot wrong he is so focused on the goal yeah you know he like Gabriel has got something special you know like really really like few people will ever ever have in surfing special 100% um in his ability to create the situation the way he wants it to be and disconnect from physically and mentally trying to make something happen and just have that trust yeah cuz when the waves especially fit what he does catch lots of waves do a big maneuver finish the wave out it's hard to ever beat the guy because you know on his forehand into the wind like it just set up he just was licking his chops the other day he was three foot L into the wind and and even with a guy named even with a guy like Yago who's great in those waves and that was the battle right that was the battle last week was for them one of them to make the the Olympic team and I was like Yo's got a huge huge lofty challenge ahead of him and Medina it's not as lofty like yeah there's there are times where I go well Yago could beat Medina pretty good today on this day or whatever but looking at those the way those and Yago Yago is more of like a kind of lingid like um fely Surfer right and he needs a little space sometimes he can fit everything in a tight wave pool you know you seen the wave it probably but but um he kind of like he just he's he's a little more flowy yeah and not quite as fast maybe or um in the tight space and so I just I saw that huge advantage to Gabriel going into that yeah and being lefts on his forehand into the wind you it was going to be a big challenge for like a Leo or Canoa or John John or those guys that were at that event to to try and match what he could do yeah and if you take it from a out of a physical context what is the the the the the state of self that personal development angle which certain people seem to be able to disconnect from Gabrielle doesn't seem to actually ever go to that place where he gives her about what people think yeah or you know he's living in his space so truly so truthfully that it's a powerful thing hard to be he is a cold-hearted competitor just in a beautiful way yeah and he know he knows that that works and and it it's a and it's a huge Advantage for him to not you know I I think I I definitely experienced that at times even for years at times but I was more emotional than Gabriel for sure yeah um and um the emotion is the thing that gets in the way yeah but the passion is the thing that drives it so it's a there's a there's a difference between the two you know you the the passion so like right now I look at this situation and I go okay the Olympics yeah um who's going um uh who's Advantage who's good there you know you got you got to go look at you got to go okay John John Gabriel Jack Robinson the favorites right uh to win at Chu yeah then you got dark horses like AO um maybe Canoa go Alonzo kah you seen that guy s out here like he's a mad surf so you're going to put these guys on in your mind you know leading up to that event you think here's the here's the people have the advantages or who the favorites are or whatever at this moment right this second I think Gabriel was so far ahead because of the whole situation he didn't make the team by one wave yeah in more than in more than one situation he lost to Jack Robinson in the final after having Jack basically comboed or like way ahead in that final last year and Jack comes back and beats him Gabriel misses out by one spot from making the final five um Gabriel didn't make the final five on tour in 2023 it's crazy yeah and and EO didn't and you know Yago didn't but I mean some great Surfers didn't but you would expect that EO you would think EO John John Gabriel are shoin for that final five right like ahead of everyone well you would think Gabriel for sure Gabriel for sure yeah John obviously he's had some injuries and and um that's been the tale of his career other than his world titles has been the injuries unfortunately yep um but you look at everything Gabriel and I texted Gabriel the other day and I said man congratulations you were just like incredible like it's it's amazing what you're doing because your back is so against I I I said it in like two sentences I basically said like doing what you have to do and it's incredible how it's working out you know but but uh he misses out on the final five heartbreak misses out on that world title I mean Gabriel being able to go left at at lowers also into the wind big airs he beat Etho out there like that um uh so it was such a heartbreak didn't make the Olympic team didn't make the final five and lost his chance to make uh to have another world title and then he has to go and out do the Isa games he has to beat Yago he has to sort of win the thing that the Brazilian team needs to win the men's side so many things are against him yeah that have to line up and he made it happen and you know I mentioned to you does Felipe and Yago want to do well enough for the men to get an extra spot on the team and well now it's going to be joal Felipe and and Gabriel but obviously Yogo is going to do his best because he wanted to he wanted that but now he has to also there's a contest within the yeah team he has to beat Gabriel it's super interesting and if one of them Gabriel Yago finished one it was 41 points between Brazil and France one of them gets one place less Gabriel does everything he can do and then goes one heat less he don't make it crazy they all got just where they needed to get so if you you know for people paying attention to this situation to me the the the universe right now is slipstreaming Gabriel to to achieve his goals yeah and I think everyone should be terrified to have he have a he because now he's already basically had one foot in the loss right he's his the Flames are on his feet yeah to Lo to and so in a way he's already felt that he has nothing to lose there's no fear now he doesn't have to worry about going from here down to here yeah he's already been down here he shouldn't have been in the Olympics and and uh and so to me the energy is all pushing him forward and he's just he's just riding this drafting of this energy this the wind you know there's a big truck in front of him and he's getting way better gas mileage right now and and uh I think it's super interesting and um you talk about it as energetic which we all we're all energetic beings you imagine the collective energy of all of us vibrating resonating on a planet what comes out from our planet into the universe how do you make that energy did you on 11 occasions make that energy work for you I'm sure different ways different times right yeah but where does it get to now as you reflect and you go wow that was what was is there anything you go that was the most important mindset change or the most important physical thing or was what what do you feel like you could credit is there anything singularly or is it just a compounding of everything singularly singularly it's a bigger vision I I want to have the most success I can in this lifetime yeah you know I I want to achieve and I don't know what these goals are but as they pop up you know I can't win five World titles in a row without winning four right without winning three so it was like I had to I had to um look at these potential steps that I need to get through and if and if and if I do this great then they'll think about something else but you can't think about anything it's that moment being in that moment being present in that time envisioning a whole potential laundry list of all the things you ever dreamt of but then you got to just start somewhere and take a step yeah and then if you get through that step what's the next step and I've made two steps how would I make four you know and and and um I you can't do that alone you know you need you you got to make good personal decisions for yourself that that create good karma in your life create good energy people that like you um people that want to help you people that that celebrate your success and you need to find good Role Models men and women that are older than you that have experience that love you that that help you can bounce ideas off of you know you need therapy from your friends and you need you need people who like don't have an ulterior motive to say like hey this is how you should try maybe look at it this way you know and I had I had Al Merck I had Bruce Raymond I had Pierre anas I had Jack that Jeff yeah Johnson um um I PF Ike um who's kind of my godfather basically um different different people that I was able to bounce things off of jeie Chester's kind of been like another mom to me and Bruce's wife Janice who passed away um uh Barb Green Al Al Green's wife who started Quicksilver and these people all became my support group over the years because they're my friends and they're like family to me you know and and um and through all my heartaches you know they gave me time and energy to talk me through things that were you know hurting that um you know at times I didn't feel I could talk to my family about you know I needed someone outside and and you need all those I for me from my experience I needed all those I don't know you know a person like Gabriel might be different yeah but from me that's how that's how it felt to figure out how to have um the best results and I I got Trevor hendy very good friend of mine who's been a a huge help and um a guy named Justin kosis who I met through just through through Trevor who doesn't serve pide he's ever in a wave in his life he's just this New Zealander guy who lives in Australia and sort of life coaches people and helps them and I've spent many times with him over the years looking at my life and the things around me to try to be better be a better person and be a better friend and be you know and and and I I am aware that this this singular goal is a selfish thing on some level for sure 100% even if you're out there just trying to catch a way of back door or if you're trying to win a world title or if you're just trying to get a better board make yourself happy yeah make yourself happy but but uh um yeah I don't know it's you're navigating all these things you know I want to be a good person too and I know I fail at that at times and I'm probably an ass to some people but but you know I got my my girlfriend colani um she and I have a a really good relationship we've been together a long time and and um her family is super supportive of me and you know as I get older i' I've accepted a lot of things that have allowed me and my family to be closer and yeah it's just no one's life's easy man right life's easy you you can you can look at someone from outside and go oh they got it they got it easy and be jealous or angry or something but no one everyone's life is hard on their own relative scale yeah and you know whether you were born rich or you had nothing you know and and you can be a success through whatever that challenge is you know maybe for some people it's harder to be born wealthy in a trust fund and and be a great person and be an addition to society that everyone loves you know but it's you can it's easy to see when somebody like homeless or born with nothing and they and they do great things in their life for other people you go man that is the goal yeah that is like greatness yeah um but yeah everyone's got their own challenges and well you've been able to invest in yourself to the point that has created historic levels of success that we never imagined possible then you've also at the same time focused in as you said your music and your golf and you found soless in those things you've also done really well in business mate you you've got what have you what have you done I was looking at it so you've got boards with fire wire out andn with the clothes I would proba put fins without you know fins in Access got that too k k here you've got the shoes now you got video games the beverage perss you've got the wave pool I mean the video game thing we did that once and it's it's done the the purpose is kind of making a little bit of a comeback p kind of get it going but yeah um but it didn't quite you know we we were we were hoping for this potential like opening for us to make this health drink that was that was um going to really launch and we for various reasons we had struggles with it but it's doing all right now it's starting to but you know I'm not really active in it but it's you know it'd be great for us to do good but I like invested in a number of things like salento that tayor steals tequila company which is ironic because obviously I'm you don't drink you know and um um but uh you know if you can keep it sensible you know you can have a drink here and there but you I don't think people should drink for hangovers ever um um so how yeah the wave full stuff I don't know wave pool is just productivity might somebody somebody asked me how you know did you think about that when you were a little kid and I was like I don't know but I think maybe I did because I was from Florida and we had no waves all summer and we used to go scarfing behind the boat yeah you know and imagine there's a wave and then we' go to Wet n Wild and boogie board on The Little Wave Pool they had it was about six inches high and and my brain used to I guess I I guess something was implanted then but Matt kley called me once and said I still this wave pool technology I think that you could get involved and make it happen and that's how it happened and so Matt kind of put it on me and said do you think you could and I went let me go see this thing yeah which you know one of my proudest days was having Matt kley at the wave pool after Matt put that open that opportunity seed in my brain you know a legendary SE was such a great Surfer yeah and my shaper and mentor and he used to take me in his car with Shawn before Heats and have us breathe oxygen off a tank and I was like is this legal man what is this [ __ ] you know he's like any you know any advantage you can get um but um yeah uh I I I think most of the business things I've done they've been natural extensions like we we all made Surf made money from from clothing clothing was a natural extension guys wanted to make board shorts the AL and John laws of the world and the Gordon merchants of the world these guys all just went let's make surf trunks you know P Jack O'Neal let's make a wet suit yeah and and um that's how they all got started so there's like yeah I mean surfing be has become an industry too which isn't why we got started right but it's a it's it is a natural extension of a of a surfer like I don't think you're going to go get an IT job when you're or like start start a tech company when you're a surfer you know like hard good goods and you know the things that we we we use so it's great to see the entrepreneurial spirit in the young Surfers of today I love it it's incredible isn't it like the stuff that they're doing Nathan Florence for example just John Florence yeah Nathan with his own like his own his media that the content he's creating and Jamie O'Brien Jamie you see what Jamie's done with his media see what uh Ben gravy you know there's there's a bunch of different people in different kind of lanes doing their thing and I I like in the in early 90s there was a lot of skaters starting like shoe companies and skate companies and stuff and I thought Surfer should do that but we all had sponsors like Quicksilver and bongs and vams and stuff and and um but that was the that was the spirit in the early days for surfing and I like to see that come back around with John John starting his company danne started his company I started a clothing company I thought look everything has a life cycle yeah and you see like the quick Showers of the world have died like it makes me super sad that was my family yeah and they they made they made my life great yeah you know they you help make this they they helped me buy houses and and and travel around the world you know and and Chase my dreams and Danny quack gave me a contract when I was 18 years old and I couldn't believe that they wanted me to be on C you know like it it was like a dream come true but like I said everything's got a life cycle you know things are going to Peak and and and end and and I think you always need fresh energy um in everything you know in in in company on their world tour in politics all these things need new people with new ideas because the world's changing and it's changing with technology it's changing with new ideas like the way guys surf waves right now is different than when I was a kid watching the way people surfed waves you know you're still doing off lips and stuff but there's different approaches to it the equipment's different the lines are different how do you think surfboards and and your era would have been different had you had pre-shape like the computer shapes and being able to like really tune in yeah the one shape that's the best thing or whatever yeah I think I mean I always wonder wait let me let me let me add one thing to that yes because I've always felt it was an advantage to surfing as a whole in the world that not everyone had access to everyone else's designs yeah because you grew up in Sydney right you grew up at um Manley and you had a certain wave yeah rabbit and and those guys grew up on the Gold Coast are going to hollow right Point Break right Sandbar Bel low sea level or debba so there's a certain like they had more tail rocker and in Florida we had wider flatter boards and you weren't privy on YouTube to see or Instagram to see everyone's Clips every day so you had to imagine oh wait I heard the guys in Santa Cruz are doing an air so this is kind of you know or dve Davey Smith in Santa Barbara was doing trying to do a barrel roll so we back then as I was a little kid and you were kind of like getting into your thing there was an idea each each grouping of surfers around the world had had their own style you know Larry berlman and buttons those guys 360s and trying errors and skate influence yeah so how do you see what do you see are the advantages and disadvantages of back then and and now I mean obviously the consistency isn't it I mean my my son's got a shape blank off the machine and sanded it to finished he's nine wow so it's the type of thing that opens up opportunity for anyone to be a shaper the first thing you would do as a professional Surfer is use the learn the program yeah and be able to design and tinker and play with your own boards and and you would not necessarily have to finish them but involved think if you had a computer all those 24-hour trips and you you knew how to design your board and you could Tinker on your computer the whole time on a flight I'm learning it now the system you know what I mean for that reason just to be able to be engaged with it when we were you know Greg KF was like a father to me at a lwha surf boards as Al mer was to you and my order of 61 to be 63 he didn't even measure him you know what I mean there was it was so I'd get a board from Morris back in like the mid90s in in in France and I I learned right away to not even tell him what I wanted or anything yeah and and he would write on there like the size would say 3 foot 15 in or something you know just something ridiculous cuz and he's like and I'm like what is it he's like I didn't measure it I just kind of eyes it up and good me I don't know yeah I mean that's that's how it was but I think that this your new age everything comes with its ups and downs isn't it there's nothing like you said no one's life's easy everyone's life everyone's Journey every board all of it all of the Technologies they all have the pros and the cons and in time you get to see the thing that I'm interested from with you is you for have been in the spotlight for what 35 40 years right 40 call it you know if you started being competing 35 you're in the spotlight before that as a young grommet how have you stayed out of trouble how have you had such good like if if I'm if people anyone else is there for 35 years they've been through some [ __ ] man going be some controversies and some this and some that but you that maybe speaks volumes for you as a person but you largely have represented our sport in such a dignified fashion for so long with such I don't know race such it's been a good Innings mate I don't know how you haven't been in trouble and haven't [ __ ] up somewhere along the line yeah I probably have here and there but you know I never had a drug addiction I never like beat anyone up I you know I just I I I love surfing that's the number one thing and um you know the rest is noise and fun yeah and but there and and you know I've I've obviously been in uh like outside of Surfing a bit with my life and relationship sh and um work and you know things like that but I like the the most important thing to me has always been like the focus is my surfing like if I'm in the news I hope it's my surfing not some other thing you know one time colani and I we we um we walked out of we I I flew back from France and uh we were in La for this um Channel Island had opened a shop in in on Wilshire or whatever um Hollywood and and uh we were walking out of the shop and we're like hand inand all a sudden these cameras come right on us and the guy starts asking me about some uh Hollywood girl I've never met while you're standing next to you holding hands with cl right and and um and says oh we heard you were with uh so and so at this place last night right and I'm like and it's funny because clonnie and I were we were in bed in Santa Barbara the night before and and I'm like how do you guys I just look how do you guys make this [ __ ] up I go this shows me how crazy you guys actually are because this is completely there's zero I've never met that person and it's crazy that you're just trying to make a story or you even heard who said this what are you talking about I go she and I were in Santa Barbara we had dinner at the house and went to bed last night I what are you talking about and the guy just it was like it was maybe like the first time the guy ever like got a response that sort of put him in his place I'm like don't do this to people evil man and but uh that feeds itself that stuff's a terrible it's it's gossip is terrible you know and and a lot of people in public eye aren't afforded a private life in a way you know and that that can drive you crazy yeah you know I mean look I dated Pam I was asking for it you know you and um by was you know but but she and I had a personal connection besides that that most people didn't know about for a long time before anyone we dated right and um and when it became public it was really uncomfortable like NE I didn't like it maybe she I don't know but I I just didn't like it and um but it comes with the territory you know some people are very very public and and uh but I I I'm thankful that I've no big controversy in my life or anything you know so so good brother like uh I know surfing's enough you know yeah it's medicine mate saves you let's talk let's let's you I'm just coming there yeah let's talk a little bit about sustainability and I know that without a known and the products and the businesses you've created you're very conscious in that space important yeah um so outerknown is an interesting one I started a company with with Quicks called vstr I was telling someone this story the other the day Qui got sued for it when I I was in we were talking about starting a company I wanted to start something I wanted to do something that's a little more upscaled from just surfing you know I want to make exra clothes I wanted to make something sustainable at Quicksilver because I I didn't know much about the the the the clothes where they were made who was making them where the textiles came from I didn't know any of that stuff at Quicks and I would hear murmur murmurs like when Twitter first started you hear like these different business practices and how bad it was for the workers and Nike making shoes in s shops or what yeah and there was even one guy who was an expro uh soccer player who dedicated his life to exposing this and I used to follow him and I I communicate with him a bit and his whole his thing was called Nike sweat and it was all to expose things they hadn't paid for or bad conditions or whatever for Nike and so he dedicated his whole life after having been sponsored by them right it's crazy yeah I mean trying to challenge like basically the biggest athletic company in the world um and and uh so I I I would read you know and I didn't know what was necessarily true or not but he was exposing a lot of stuff about factories and the workers and stuff and I just went you know that's embarrassing and I don't want to be part of that and so I told quick I really want to start something that's transparent and sustainable and and and and and and upscale like a like clothing you really want to like own for a long time kind of thing so we I I was in Morocco it was in 2009 and and um it just struck me one day I went visitor we're visitors to all these places and I was like that's a great that' be a great name and I wanted to make a name tag where it says visitor with the you know the white tag with the red on the bottom says visitor and you put your name in there and I wanted that to be our logo on a t-shirt on a t-shirt yeah so it's just visitor and so we we tried with that but somebody owned the name visitor and um and so Quicksilver didn't want to pay for it cuz the iy was like oh it's 250 Grand you can have it and then they're like they thought about it and they were asking me and I'm like [ __ ] that's a lot of money to start you know you haven't even paid a penny to make a piece of clothing it's 250 Grand in my brain I couldn't get around it yeah even though Quicks over is worth $2 billion dollar you know but so they so they were like oh I'm den and then they went back to the guy and he was like oh it's 400 Grand and he kept they were going to have to chase their tail you know so I don't think he I think he just wanted to see how far he could push it or this company or person I don't know if the person or not and so Quicksilver they decided to change the name to vstr and make it look like an acronym yeah but obviously we knew it was visitor you know and I said I got I was upset about it and I I said you just change the name Al together that's like not what the the name is not vstr and either buy the name or change we'll figure out another name you know but long story short we did that and then they sued us they sued Quicksilver and they won and the here's the thing in in in those situations that company has to show that it was detrimental to their brand and they made less money this company made more in the years in the year or two where we were using the name vstr the couple years there they actually gained more money at their own private label company which no one had ever even heard of or seen and they were able to successfully sue Quicksilver because there were some lies I think told and how that came up with the name they were trying to say vstr was an acronym but it wasn't and we all knew it was not you know and we had to do depositions it went on for like a year or two and it ended up costing quick like 5 million 7 million bucks or something it was crazy and I'm like gosh that 300 Grand didn't sound too bad now it should have paid the 250 yeah whatever it was and and um I hope I'm allowed to talk about that I think I am because it was all settled you know but I don't think there was any ill will by anybody you know we just like were kind of committed to that name and then I argued with the guys at quick about I didn't want to be BST I'm like that didn't mean anything to me so um when I really the more I read about textiles and and sustainability and stuff the more I wanted I said look my whole life has like I've made a career by being sponsored by a surf company that makes clothing and other things obviously but clothing has afforded me a good life and I should should know more about it personally I should understand the company and and how it's run and I really wanted to dedicate to that and do organic cotton and and um and uh regenerated or recycled materials Etc so as Quicksilver was changing and ownership and the importance became about the stock price instead of about the product yeah and I I personally didn't I wasn't behind that and um you know if I was a new guy on tour just getting sponsored I'd probably take my check and shut my mouth yeah exactly you know I'm way down the road from that and um they came in and they were trying to shore up everything at Quicks and they went from like 15 18 different brands they owned like you know um Quicks Roxy obviously they had um d shoes but they also had like um they started danne's thing summer teeth they started my thing the vstr they had all these other little Brands bikini companies and there was like 17 Brands I think at quick at one point so they decided to shut them all down and just keep DC Roxy Quicksilver and try to essentially they were trying to get their company to be valued at a certain thing and sell it yeah and so that was a to me that was against the spirit of why we all started surfing started this company work worked at this company and so I signed my last contract a Quicks a 5-year contract in 2008 and it was signed on April it was signed on April 1st excuse me because we had been I actually a lot of people don't know this but I was really close with Pat Tori and I almost started riding for Ruka when they launched really so I was in negotiation with them for a long time for about a year prior to signing my last Quicksilver contract trck and when I went the deciding factor was to ride for Ruka I was probably going to make less money it was going to be more work and my whole history at this company would be sort of gone like useless so I just it was an easy decision for me in the end um but I wanted something fresh and new and so when my my contract was running out I didn't like the direction quicket where was going my manager Terry and I talked about it and he he's like what do you want to do and I said I I'd like to start something else and and um yeah I said eventually you know looking a year out 5 years out 10 years out maybe we work with Quicks over again maybe we team back up somehow but like I need to go this direction and Terry's like I'm with you whatever you want to do and I said this a big big call for you because you get paid if I get paid like Quicks you know so like you're not going to get a check and so we we uh we when when that came up I had one last sort of desperate attemp attempt with mcnight and Pierre ones a few weeks maybe a month and a half before my contract ran out and and I kind of pitched something to them about taking the company private again and blah blah and they kind of I thought they looked at me like I was crazy and uh but I I was it was like the the at that point my decision was already made but I was just like hoping maybe we can do something sort of like totally different we take this company different angle and they didn't see that vision and that's not my forte they knew better than me so I it was just an idea by me but I when my contract ran out they had no idea I wasn't going to resign it was April Fool's Day and we had to announce it and and and uh and and I told quicko I said I told Bob and Pierre I said you guys can choose how you want to announce it or you want me to or whatever but we got to you know tell that up yeah and so it was the ultimate uh fake out yeah it was it was like the ultimate April fools joke that wasn't a joke exactly you know after 23 24 years it Quicks over 23 years and um it was a sad day you know I I mean pier and I cried on the phone together Bob mcnight was uh trying to figure out how to go into like emergency mode and fix like how do we deal with this but you know so he was more in shock they were both in shock in different ways but you know that's like I said that was my family and it's I still miss that to this day you know we we had this when the Euro Force team started and it was Jeremy and P and Thiago and and um just like we had the whole kind of Euro team going together and they had they'd bring like Ricardo Rona and he would train us and and um Yanik and Patrick bevon and we had this really good group going around the world and we were training and like pushing each other and stuff I was doing a bit of training and he did try a little I mean I play it down I just don't like I just don't like training but you've been training in this thing yeah essentially right yeah but but I mean yeah I'll cut to the chase I mean we started we started um working as soon as my contract ran out we were already down the road quite a ways on working on outerknown and um but we didn't have a name we didn't really have uh funding we didn't have clothes we didn't have you know it was like okay let's what do we do let's s this and my partner didn't know how to run a clothing brand he was like out of the tax world or something know and he and I made surf Ranch together but we were like well we'll figure it out and we got John Moore and Terry was there with finding resources the right people and stuff I said look I want it to be sustainable I don't want there to be a lot of waste in the the making of this product I want the leftover stuff to be recyclable number one to me was social compliance I wanted the people in the factories to get paid well and have good working conditions and that to me that was number one number two was the sustainability aspect but um they were hand inand but I wanted to say I'm I'm proud of the people who make the clothing in the factories and they're healthy and they like working for us and that was I I think you need to start start there with any thing you do work-wise the problem for the customer out there is that that's going to make it cost more and so you have to know in some some clothing some fashion brands are just BS they're just charging a lot of money because they have a name but some clothing like whether it's a Patagonia or outerknown or certain companies are doing better things at their brand you're going to have to pay a little more for that because the textiles might cost two or three times as much just to buy before you make a piece of clothing out of it recycled stuff is so expensive compared to like for the process of recycling it yeah right yeah um it's getting better now because more people are imparting that employing that into their companies but when we started day one we launched I was it it was in July of 2014 I think and I was at jbay and we launched the brand that day and man the whole feed I don't know was like f you you're just trying to gouge us on price dude it was like I think I we felt like we just experienced a funeral and a death it was trying to start something we couldn't talk we couldn't talk about it for like a year it was it was hard because I was trying to create something that felt special and was built really well and and and would last a long time had integrity and and a a huge part of my following felt like I just ripped him off or like I was doing I was trying to or I and and that hurt I mean to my soul you know because I was so proud I actually didn't even know the price of the clothes when we launched it I had no idea I just went oh my God we got a shirt we got a jacket we got this and and so I was so proud to announce it and then my whole feed was just like Fus Slater you're just you you sold out you're you're this and that I'm like oh my God I just might have ruined my life here like my whole Legacy of like trying to do the right thing you know um and I think unfortunately or fortunately whatever it's just something I had to take on the chin and go well you know we're going to have to get better we're going to have to figure this out but so few people look we were we were Fair Labor Association certified before making one t-shirt one pair of trunks no one had ever done that we were the first company ever to be certified prior to launching there was only like nine companies in the world certified at the time or something so we're trying to do the right thing you know but I I also I didn't want to make cheap stuff but I don't want it to be out of range for people to afford but I also don't want it to just be like this thing that everybody has and it's just like there's too much of it so it's a there's a weird balance there so you're going to hurt some of your you know customer feelings or something potential um you know but we've experienced that with the wave pool too like the first time you do something it's going to be super expensive and um a lot of first right yeah you've done a lot of it's hard because I I love the idea of trying to do something different but at the same time you're going to you're going to things are going to come out of left field you don't expect that are going to be painful to deal with and you don't know the answer to them yeah you know I didn't know how to respond to people and say Here's why it's more expensive they should just they were just like No it should we should be able to Surf your wave pool we should be able to buy these clothing you know and I don't disagree with them around this like same time that I left quick over I left Channel Islands I had a double shocker man it was because channel is is more of like truly my family than than Quicks over Quicks over is my surrounding my support and my all that but Channel Island is like my family like Al when my dad passed away Al came to my house and spent the last couple weeks with him you know like this is like like this isn't a company this is like just my it's my family you know so leaving that was yeah and and the only way I could leave it there were only there were two things that had to happen one was that um Travis Lee who worked there needed to come with me because he was my connection to all my boards and and orders and and all that stuff so I needed Travis to agree to come with and I basically said whatever your price is to leave and make your life better pay it with I'll I'll make up for it whatever it is and um and I and I want your life to be easier yeah and you make more money and work less you know like I was like whatever we can do yeah like whatever I can do to help make that happen if we can make that happen so I needed that to happen and and I needed Al's approval yeah and so that was the hardest phone call because I called Al and I said Al listen there's this thing you know we might buy firewire we're way down the road on this we already have the contracts and everything I'm like but I can't do it without your your signing off on it so I was like I just got to call you and I was like I was like in tears I'm like man this is I was like this I don't even want to make this phone call I'm like I'm I'm I'm second guessing myself even calling you right now you know and and he goes you know what Kelly you're still my son you're still my family nothing changes between us business is business and let's just separate that like nothing don't even worry about this at all do not lose sleep he's like you do what you got to do for your life and I support you 100% And I was like oh my God and that you know that's why Al's such a great man yeah and um wasn't about him it was about you he was caring about you still rather than himself yeah yeah but you know Al had also not been making my boards for a long time and he was out of shaping you know out hasn't shaped forever his name still on the boards and that's the inspiration behind the brand for Brit and all the templates and the Rockers and the old designs and stuff and of course that's going to live on forever at at the in through all the designs and people who ride for them and everything and they they bought it all back right it's all it's all inh housee now so they which is awesome you know long term they're intact you know yeah and and you know Jake Burton and those guys were great like they were really they came in and didn't change they they implemented different change in the background business yeah but they didn't come in and say like we want it to be Burton we want it to be like how we do snowboard like they came in and went how does Channel Islands make that who are your Shapers how do you guys create this team how can we help and then Burton was awesome they were so good and then you know I guess they made an I don't know the deal and all that but they I guess they made a nice deal for it to go back into the hands of Brit and team what a feel-good story I mean it really is you know I think I think Channel Islands is you know you could argue they're the greatest board brand ever because of because of um because of the the history the the world titles the the designs the influence on other people's boards and and and surfing around the world forever it's you know from Curran even before curan but from basically from Tom Curran on the lineage um you know is really important there the before so yes how do you get into firewire and whates he made there sustainably and then yeah so we so I went to firewire and the idea at firewire was because I've been so involved with design and stuff with Alf sincerely from kley with kley I was helping with design when I was 12 13 years old you know um but because I've been so inherently interested in and and in the shaping room and learning to shape you know Al gave me my own tools and at one point I'm like why you give me all these tools he goes cuz I'm because I want to stop shaping boards he's like I need you to start to learn how to shape so I can like go relax and go fishing yeah and um and uh so when I went to when I decided to that was probably the third thing I needed to be able to have total freedom of design because I had some I felt guilty sometimes said Al because I get some morrises I get some Simons and I'd ride them in contest I went I won trestles on a Simon and Al was Al drove down to come watch me serve yeah right right and and uh and and Al had just gotten cancer he had just announced he he had just said that he found out he had cancer and he came down and watched me Surf and I was like like in shock about his cancer but then he got down to the beach and I had a Simon that felt the best for me out there and I'm like and I was like trying to almost hide it hide it from him and and but he's going to see me surf it and wonder what the board was so I was like Al I'm sorry I just got to tell you I'm I got the Simon I'm writing he goes man why would you got to ride to win and I was like there's a selfless human man there's like just the greatest he's just the best guy you could ever know and um and I went out I won the contest on that Simon what about the packaging of your boards now I know that you used to well yeah get your boards r with all that bubble pack and it's just I saw PK mention a thing about so even you know with Chan is I get these boxes every year it actually was really fun they send me like two boxes sometimes even three boxes of surfboards and the box was like up to 10t long cuz sometimes there' be a 10 in there but like you know at least 8T long and I'd get these boxes over I'd stay with with the Johnson's over there and I'd have these boxes in this garbage and I didn't know what to do with it so I would actually make forts for the kids in the yard out of the boxes and around Christmas and they would all like the forts better than their own Christmas presents you know make these little like Rob would get boards I'd get boards we'd have like four five six these 10 foot long boxes and make a big Fort for the kids like Rob's kids and like Kona Johnson and them when they were little but we'd have all this garbage left over plastic wrap and stuff and then with firewire when they would send me boards to here to Hawaii because it's really the only place I get boards sent would be Hawaii from my my quiver here the rest of the place I'm just going with a board bag taking it and then I get these huge amounts of like just garbage afterwards I'm like no one wants this like a couple times I took it to arakawa and other people and said like can you use this to send boards from here and a couple times they took it but really it ends up in the dump or burning and so I just felt bad about it so I told Travis I said look I do not care if I get a ding on my board just send it in a cardboard box with not just tape the boards together but don't put any plastic I don't want all this crap I'd have a I'd have an 8 foot 7 foot long box that was 4 feet High full of plastic yeah and I'm like this is horrible I just don't I don't want to be a part of this like I it feels wrong yeah even a few times I said absolutely do not send me that again I'd get it again because there might be somebody else in the factory you know that works for us they don't want my dings they're like they don't want they're just doing their job they don't want my boards to show up dinged and um so now we're we're luckily meeting West Carter through PK um he's got a really sustainable package curbs side recyclable and you have this tiny footprint afterwards that can be used again or recycled or whatever so that feels way better hopefully we are lessening that footprint of rubbish we're leaving behind yeah and um but starting firewire just on that history that was probably the third thing I said I need total design freedom to work with any shaper any designer I don't want to be limited in that and that was the one thing I felt bad at Channel Islands like sometimes I like the influence of somebody else's shapes that weren't sowls yeah and so I don't want to be confronted with that where you're where I'm like in this box like at this point I'm trying to still grow the design idea yeah and so I worked with tommo and I worked with Weber um you would had some weers back in the day huh I did have a couple weers we worked on a for shaping machine there was a disaster down that trail yeah but um and Toro and um Mike woo and um I mean I don't want to forget anybody Dan man uh Simon Morris is in there too no not not in our line oh not in your not all Shapers that have boards with this these are all yeah boards that we put out Slater design so Mike woo now with the great white twin and Dan man we just did the sboss and um we had the frk before that and um Mark pesh both the mark peshes have have uh helped with some designs on the gamas we did so it's like for me I mean look maybe sometime because Rob has a brand within firewire maybe Rob and I will make a board together you know I've talked about that it'd be fun to do after all these years you know like the front half is Rob's and the back half's mine or something you know the maybe the the the the left inside rail is Rob's and the right inside rail is we should do an Asim that'd be funny like we should do one that's like okay we're we're only going to make 50 of these I'm G to shape half a board and Rob's gonna shape half a board and we're gonna have the computer put it together I like this I like where you're going but so like and then the idea is like if I whoever I shape boards with they could potentially become part of the line if that shaper wants to be with Aila I didn't even talk about Aila I mean Aila and I made a couple great boards we made the the the Flat Earth board which was a troll on flat earthers yeah yeah and I got a lot of free press out of that because the flat earthers thought I was a flat earther but they loved it they thought I was they thought I was poking fun at everyone else who thinks the Earth's a globe they're like he knows he knows he's in let's buy one of them boards I just I it became an obsession of mine I couldn't believe people thought the Earth was flat for years and then I thought wait this board's made for small flat waves it's got to be called The Flat Earth and it was actually like that's that's the board that really got me back into twin fins some years ago with Aila so tell us mate final question where does it go from here what what do you wake up tomorrow morning burning to do what is inside of you and where is the future takeen yeah well I I mean I'll probably find out maybe today but I'm I'm pretty sure the ship on the Olympics have sailed for me so I must confirm that for you I think yeah because the universality you understand that situation with that yeah only for countries with eight or less athletes at the last Olympic Games America ain't that yep so it would seem that that door closed but you may as well ring and ask I'm going to ring and ask but look in a in a absolute weird Twist of events like it's not it's not a 100% no no matter what yeah and I'll tell you why and that's because like it well John John's been injured a lot um Griffin's recently been injured like if happen if certain guys are injured yeah or sick or whatever yeah but the likelihood is like less than 1% you know it's like a0 one% at but energetically you have not surrendered that no and and I like it and and to be honest it's probably made me lose a lot of sleep because I I I there's a part of me that holds out some hope but I I'm I'm you know I'm I know it's not a reality um but I think the world holds that hope too it's not an impossibility but it's it's a very unlikely Hood scenario unlikely scenario keep a little open no but you know you can dream and everyone needs to dream and um you know everyone in life's probably not going to get all their dreams you know but you but if you don't have them they don't happen and so you have to keep keep looking ahead and and if it's not the thing you wish for it might be something else that you didn't know was better you know I mean I played this game with myself in heats one time it happened in jeffre Bay where I took this wave I Ser against Danny Wills I and this is how I remember things they very detailed because they're like messages for my life in some way yeah and I was serving as Danny this is in 2006 and uh I caught this wave and I I was paddling into it going don't catch this wave you don't want this this isn't the right way why are you going this way but I just something just made me Catch the Wave and I wrote it and while riding it I'm in the head space why did you catch this wave you're an idiot you know you know when you when you go against your intuition yeah and and now you're in this negative flow right now you're in this Contra flow against what's what should be natural rhy way you should and so I fell on the wave and then I I I like I I have a pretty negative internal dialogue people don't know about when I talk to myself and no one hears me yeah and we all maybe have some of that right and and and um so I start just giving myself a a verbal lashing and then right then I stopped and I'm like how is that going to help you and I cut it off I how's that going to help you and do you do you honestly believe the things you say I actually did this to myself in the water do you believe the things you say to yourself do you trust what you know do you think that those are the right things and I remember sitting there in and and it was all act you know waves are coming so you're it's hard to go meditative when you're in the act of doing right and and um and I said okay if you believe yourself if you're not full of [ __ ] trust it yeah and and then I said why did you catch that wave and then I said do you believe that all things happen for a reason and if they do you caught that way for a reason and what was that reason and so I went down this and it just took me into the the the good flow yeah and I went you know what maybe I caught that wave because it's going to put me in the right place and I I turned it around yeah because all things are game in your head Life's a [ __ ] game in your head dude life is like you're just trying to figure out how to get from here to the other side of the room that's it yeah like you're going to walk from here to there and your life's going to be over one day yeah and that's it yeah and the most perfect wave came to me and I'm like it's always available yeah it's always available and that's some [ __ ] because I want the heat you know but no I mean in some on some level no well you it's a deep experience you've gone through because you've you've you've created the opportunity yeah and and so I went you know that's a good lesson in my life you can turn you know turn the lemon into lemonade right there I just went I just all I did all I did was change how my brain was seeing it yeah and that positivity you're a conduit to the universe you're a conduit to the things happening around the energy in the ocean the people around you you never know when you're going to say the right or wrong thing to Someone Like You should be disciplined to be aware of your interactions on the planet and I mess up all the time sometimes I mess up on purpose honestly times I say things online or I'll do something just just like a like um just just to see how I feel after and nothing that'll hurt someone yeah not you don't do something to hurt somebody like that but but to potentially put yourself in a position to learn because we you got to keep learning and one time I sometimes things happen and you don't think they're big lessons you actually think they're absurd at the moment and sometimes those are the good ones like I was in I was in Brazil and I came out of a heat and I I lost I lost to Matt Banting and and um I surfed really like uh mentally I was just like trying so hard I wasn't like calm and just going with like I wasn't trusting anything I was just like I had some other stuff going on in my life that people don't know about that was like really intense and I wasn't present at all I remember Rosie interviewing me after the heat she goes you know after all these years on tour did you learn anything out there or like something like that she said something really profound like that to me and I kind of wrote her off I was kind of rude to her and I I felt bad about it I I think I apologized to her later but I didn't I wasn't trying to be rude to her I was it was more of the situation like yeah like um I said something like if I don't know that by now I'm an idiot you know instead of like instead of like yeah I should keep learning like you know because I was I just lost I was just lost I just lost the heat I was all the way in Brazil and I got to fly all the way home after a loss and a bad result you know you just just a be it's hard to be happy you can't be happy in this situation and and I thought I remember a year later two years later I went man what a what a missed opportunity to go I could have learned out there what could I have yeah what could I have learned what could I have even if I lost or whatever you don't have to you don't have to win to have gotten the lesson you don't have to it doesn't have to be the positive happy you know cherry on top at the end maybe and the Judgment of it is bad the Judgment itself is bad has brought you into being judgmental of a situation without knowing it and that was just like you know Hur and ego talking and emotion in the moment and stuff but yeah I mean all emotions all emotions are valid yeah all none are more important than other ones these are things I've like learn through my spiritual uh Journey yeah there's not a there's not an emo that's better than another emotion like you need to feel sadness You Know M um you know like when you have a cry sometimes you go man how good did that feel yeah and I don't allow that to myself you know I don't allow myself to get that emotional that of and why you know but um and anger you need you need anger because then you got to go through the throw of emotions to get to the next thing and and if you don't experience them they just build up and then you end up with cancer or something you know like who knows don't know all the stuff no well you don't know anything feel it no like you can feel that's exactly it just feel it I know many of the things that I've considered the worst things in my life retrospectively go oh that was so important wasn't it but in a moment you've judged it and all of a sudden you've closed yourself off from learning through the Judgment hey we love you surfing loves you seriously know you've been a freaking fantastic Ambassador for the culture for the sport what you've achieved to set bars that will maybe never be equaled you know it's a big thing to say but at the same time thank you no and and look in my ego doesn't want those beaten yeah but also by the time those will get beaten you want give up no I well I'd probably be so proud of the person who did it you know I'd be so like excited for them and like so detached from it cuz you more than anyone knows what they've been through to get to that point of success yeah no one knows the emotions you got to go through to get there no one know no one it's it's it's good for someone to to feel that and understand that because it's it's it'd be impossible for me to describe that you know you just have to feel it yourself and have it be your own but like um you know you look at a guy like John John or or Gabriel you know I look at those guys their talent their skill level yeah their their their steadiness mentally when they compete and stuff they're they're just raw abilities and um and Felipe um you know phelipe is getting hard Done Right Now by people I think over pulling off the tour this year and like his some of his results in bigger ways this KY is so talented man and he's such a good guy and he's such a committed dad and he's like the rest of his life is so much more important than this thing like come on he's just he's a he's such a good guy he's like I really I love Felipe you know and me and his dad have like quarreled a little bit online and stuff like or like at contest I mean you know he used to be whistling super loud in the area and it piss us off but we're like [ __ ] he's already so good quit egging us on you know like your kids already so much better than us in certain conditions but um you know if if those it's it's an interesting question because I think about those girls a lot because I I wonder if they would be as good without each other they they both they both um got on tour in 2011 at the Midway cut right the same year and they have traded back and forth with event wins and Heats and and World titles and if they existed five years apart or you know if they weren't in the same era and their skill levels would they just completely dominate or did they need each other to bring each other up to that level and I don't really see them I almost kind of don't see them as Rivals because they're so different to me yeah I think Rivals are different Shane and Shane and rabbit or Sean Thompson I mean Shane and Mr I mean you and you and I are same but when I say different I almost feel like they're in different um e like ecosystems or something I don't they like each other you know yeah they're not fighting yeah that's different yeah me and Andy hated each other for during those times you know we became friends and we were I think we were quite close when Andy passed away we were buddies you know but um I don't feel that tension between them yeah in heats you go oh my gosh I want to see this heat but I wonder if they would just completely dominate without if the other wasn't there yeah you know for like let's say they were eight years separated and might be good knew that they're not separated well that's what I was saying like I I think that either of them easily have that ability to dominate and almost every condition given the the desire over a long period of time for sure and um it's uh yeah I think I heard the other day John's missed like 26 contests from injury over his career 26 something 20 mid 20s yeah and I mean think of what he could have achieved I mean there's there's an asterisk on everyone's World title since then yeah for sure because John wasn't in the mix but yeah it's um I don't know it's exciting I I like look there's a part of me hating if you've set a bar you hate seeing someone pass it but you need to be proud of them and you need to celebrate it and you need to you need to hope that it happens because that's what pushes that's what pushes um the next guy to be greater than he could have been and there's something wonderful about surrender isn't there and surrendering to whatever I I feel like letting go I really look forward to being separated from competition Al together I look if they'd give me the pipeline or cloudbreak wild car for 10 years I'd take it because I because I love that platform right it's not because the competition it's because of that challenge that w at that wave with those people with the best of the best and like you get to be a part of that it's really exciting and fun but um as far as competition I mean look I took three years off in the middle of my career I've actually been on tour way longer now than I was in the first half right twice as long more than twice as long 20 something years after doing like eight chist and and um but in those three years I hardly watched the contest I didn't really care yeah yeah because I needed the separation and and um yeah I I I look forward to going and catching the best ways in the world for a long time still I wanted too brother thank you very much for being on the Stoke bloke show thank you very much everyone for watching I am busting for a pee so I got to go I can't be here any longer

Channel: Barton Lynch

Views: 89,920

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Id: gwHSRdoFeJA

Length: 126min 37sec (7597 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 22 2024