The Steve Lukather Interview: Secrets Behind the Songs

hey everybody I'm here with my dear friend Steve lukather what's up Luke hey man how's it going thank you very much for having me man I'm just gonna go on record saying that uh you've been really really really good to me and I really appreciate it man come on man I mean there's a there's so many brilliant players especially the young guys are just killing it I'm so inspired by it and I'm kind of glad I'm the old guy I don't have to compete out of the box with these guys when I started the entry level was like you know if if you could go that was like you know I might as well be Jimi Hendrix before there was ever a Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page played the solo on the song which goes and I could do that like 10 years old never thought I was like oh my gosh because there wasn't any [Music] body so if you could play like a you know you were it and now when you start you all know what the entry level is as far as technique and stuff like this so I kind of learned how to play the dumb play along with everybody else stuff rhythm guitar before I learned my Blues first blues scale of 11 years old when we had this guy Mark Hollings where it was a great Mark if you're ever out there I didn't forget he used to he had a great Jaguar guitar and he had the first fuzz and wah that I ever played through and I was about 11 when I got that how old was he he was like 20 something years old okay but but I was playing in this band with these other two guys and we were working on the weekends and he would come in and show us songs and he took a shine to me for some particular reason he goes hey man you know because I didn't really know what I was doing he just goes yeah and I went and I went and he goes you have a vibrato and I go what's that it just seemed natural for me to go wow you know then you know when I stopped most kids would go and he would I wasn't aware of it and from in the rest is I learned everything exponentially as it got harder I was able to okay let's talk about how you started entry level words well that's because you got YouTube If I was a young guitar player looking out going have you guys heard Eric Gales or uh you know Matthias Asado or Phil X or [ __ ] John 5 or if they can always it's sad I mean I'm just everybody knows that's fine and of course everybody's inspiration Eddie but I came at it from a different point of view I started with the Beatles and it got harder as it went so I mean okay let's talk about this let's start what was it like first solos that you learned I showed you that one you know but when you sir so as saw you but you you learned songs there weren't really solos Jimmy and Clapton came along and of Jeff Beck of course Jimmy Page and all those guys but prior to that if you could play like whatever The Melody of the solo happened to be on a pop song at the time like if you could play like it oh you know a bar card oh you're badass you know nowadays funny right you know I have my guitar set up for the Clean Super sound right now but you get the idea when you started learning solos were you like oh this is amazing I didn't really know I just wanted to learn whatever I heard on the radio or whatever I heard on a record find some I was always playing with older guys which is how I got myself into trouble as a young lad but um I was able to hear stuff and figure it out and then when I couldn't figure out I'd find some older guy that knew how to play it to show it to me there was a bunch of kids down the street from my parents house that had a band they were like 15 and I was just a little kid and I was just fumbling around struggling to make a noise on the thing and there was this one guy who was a guitar player brought down this Rickenbacker electric was like you know you got a Beatles guitar man you know and he taught me how to play there was a standell song called Dirty Laundry right that was one of the first things I learned one finger dumb right but at the time if you could play something off the radio people were impressed you told me something earlier today that your mom won a piano a spin it piano talk about time my mom want to spin a piano in the Hollywood Squares when I was like I don't know 10 11 years old and I've been playing guitar I didn't I didn't believe it my mom actually is like you know you know Charlie Weaver to win you know what I mean and she wanted you won the spin it piano you know older people understand the game show routine but it arrived at my house and nobody could play it so it ended up in my room it fit into a little thing that I had in my room a little area and I just taught myself how to pick it pick out the notes and then I started playing with real keyboard players and they taught me stuff and then I studied piano and when I started taking music really seriously at 14 I started studying everything you learned how to read music then right it was very difficult because I played by ear for the time I was like eight years old or something like seven eight years old just playing dumb stuff but when I decided that I wanted to do this professionally my father's in the television and movie business he was working at Paramount he did all the behind the scenes stuff he was an assistant director production manager for all I was when I was born he was doing the Aussie and Heritage show okay he did I Dream of Genie and you'll see the name late night Nickelodeon or something going hey is that my grandfather and my dad but but he said he knew Carl fortina who was the head of music and he was the contractor for Paramount he goes hey my kid plays guitar he needs to learn how to read music I'll let him do this but he's going to learn the bass he's got my dad was like really adamant about well if you're gonna do this then you've got to learn and I sort of went kicking and screaming at first but because I hadn't yet to meet the picaro brothers in high school when I found out what a studio musician was really all about but I started studying it was really hard man because if you could play good and you have to start going [Music] and I had a really good ear and I had this great teacher Jimmy Weibel God bless us yes legendary Jazz talk about him well Carl's the guy that introduced that said get him as the T he's the right teacher because he had the patience to teach a beginner who could play I had to audition for him because oh you play good but you can't read so we're going to start over so I was like oh God it was really difficult because my ears would catch I'd hear it once and I can play it back so what he would do he goes here take this and work on the reading on this and I'd come back the next week and he'd hand me in a chart that had the same level of reading but the notes were all different and he goes okay play this for me and I'm like oh obviously scuff he goes he getting mad he goes stop using your ear you're not reading the part and he would bust my balls on him yeah it was really hard to go back and learn the basics you know after I'd already been playing in bands and you know and all the rest of that but I'm really glad I wish I'd started from the beginning I got to be really honest with you because you know guitar players are legendary bad readers anyway for the most part because it's one of the few instruments that has the same note in several different places right exactly 2.8 places somebody told me that once before [Music] five notes yeah no that's that's actually but what makes it so difficult this way the flute middle C is Middle C that's right there's nowhere else to look for yeah so we have to think in terms of position and look ahead to see you know the greatest fear of every guitar player is The Ledger line right I used to get on sessions go early and go okay you know when I was young I I got up to the point where I could read good enough to be on record dates yeah and you know and most of the time it was like I wrote 98 of the time I wrote All My Own Parts okay aside from the road map I've learned with the changes and the Forum learning how to double Ds and all the yeah you knew how to get around the chart and obviously you knew what the chords were and you had to have a Rangers ear right you're not just going to sit there and play an F sharp major seventh chord for the whole time just because it says it on the paper on the two percent of the time that you had to read I had to read a couple times there are a couple scary moments Lee Ritenour [ __ ] saved me when I was 19 years old and I was just I was with him the other night we had a great hey it was me rittenour or Jay Grayden and uh who the hell else was there and me I guess and we just reminiscing about the 70s and 80s when we were before we were really artists and stuff we were just the guys you know I remember being young and I had gotten a flat tire to a date now this Gene page date was full Orchestra full of strings horns live vocals full you know there was three guitar players and I was like guitar two who would be the other two guys for ritten hours guitar one obviously okay somebody else I may have just been the two of us I don't remember but I showed up late because I got a flat tire on the way to the geek okay so I barely snuck in and rip was there and we had just worked on something before we he took a little bit of a shine and I love the kit and I get there and of course I'm sitting the guitar too and I'm panicking and Gene page is like I'm really sorry my car but I had to announce it 70 people in the room I'm this little zit face punk-ass who is this guy and I'm like I put my [ __ ] and I get plugged in and they're ready to take it it's going direct to two no direct two things there's no like can I punch my party no man and I just as he started to counter off I look at my part and it's the piano player piano Part D flat no chords oh my God I had no time to skull it nothing and I look over at RIT and he's gonna like tacit which means layout and fill a couple chords on his mine looks like somebody wiped their ass with paper and I must have looked at him like I saw my grandmother bent over the shower or something I don't call her like a cartoon and by the count of two rip did this he failed me wow and it was a hard part he celebrated perfectly of course and I had time to go I got 16 bars to kind of collect myself and then I just have to go or something like that you know I mean and he's sight reading the block no problem oh no problem you know he said stuff for breakfast yeah best readers as well as a brilliant musician but you know he saved me he could have let me die okay so it could have ruined my career because everybody in that room would go I saw that guy he can't read he can't he saved my ass okay so the the and I would always do that for somebody if it was the table's return because I remember when did it go from people reading charts to people making up their own Parts well we always made up our own Parts on records always from day one occasionally I took a date as a young Studio musician somebody goes like you want a session at whatever Studio blah blah yeah I'll take anything because I want to break into the scene and you know we all have stories written everybody has stories ask anybody who had to sit next to Tommy's Tedesco Tommy would go like I've writt told me a great story when he first started out Tommy was the kid explain who taught me today was the grandfather of all the studio guitar players who had a photographic memory as well as could sight read anything a matter of fact he could sight read so good Glenn Campbell told me he turned the chart upside down and he read it perfectly backwards but he was a jazzer right the difference between them is all those guys in the wrecking criminals they were basically jazzers or country players and then we were the rock the next guys and we were mostly Rock players that could do other stuff right and we were the upstarts you know we got a personality why they were very silent in the room and just that we were not we were a little bit more crazy and it was a lot more fun not more fun it was a different kind of fun anyway hey Tommy he would do stuff like Rick came in sat in Guitar one because he was like the new Hot Shot in town and Tommy came in saw he sat down the guitar too and just kind of looked at him and it's like and you know they played the first the red played it great Tommy leans over this I'll bet you 100 bucks you [ __ ] up this time they count off the two inch or no it's like God you go to Tommy meet Tommy you used to have to go to the Musicians Union to pick up your checks which were always like months after you did the session and it used to be the thing who has the most pile of checks it is a stupid teenage [ __ ] even though we were young it was a lot of fun but Tom if you saw Tommy you got to be careful because he was a you like to gamble a lot so he would bet anybody anything now these checks could be for record dates they could be for Jingles which would like you do a jingle for half hour back then 30 bucks well how do you even keep track of this stuff you have a date book okay it says I'm here and then in a certain period of time you know you're going to be paid if you haven't been paid then you have to follow up with it oh my God but generally everybody was really cool and professional though okay so it didn't really happen much uh but Tommy would go like put his hand on the on the chair who are I'll bet you that uh I'll bet you the whole pile of checks that my check is higher than yours you want to take the bet now you're looking at Tommy going I've been doing all record dates so I know my checks are Grand a couple Grand and his could have been for like a movie date for you know whatever or jingle for 25 bucks or something right and Jeff the car lost to him a couple times and Jeff was the busiest guy in town because you didn't want to not play with Tom he's just Legend it's like if you look at the time you go okay I lost the dog we'll do it again but everybody lost the time he at least once and he was so great about it he was a little bit he liked he's Mickey pay there's some guy's like I'm just kidding no they there's certain gamblers like when you lose you pay even if they're your friend talk about the guys that like like Jay Grayden he was Carlton well he's yes well the the kind of the guys that were there I would say right before you when I first got interested in becoming a city musician it's like it was obviously after I met the picaro family and their father was a top call she was God blessed job you know you know we spent a lot of time in his house you know rehearsing and stuff and Jeff would always pop over because we were still in high school Jeff was the drummer and Steely Dan when we were in high school so they were making Katie lied wow while we were in high school and our high school band was me and Michael Landau on guitar John Pierce our base Carlos Vega and drums of Steve picardo and keyboard plus we had three singers Charlie Lauren Gina and uh Jeff and David page would come down and sit in with us you know and then we were like playing stuff off of uh Katie live before the record came out you know and we were all inspired this is what we want to do so we followed all the players that were on these records okay now where I live in Los Angeles I could go see Larry Carlton and Robin Ford play at this little jazz club called Dante's right down the street yeah and because I knew Jeff was playing with him and I knew you know I was able to meet these guys and you know when I when the Royal scam album came out man that was a life-changing guitar event it's like Larry Carlton playing the way he plays and using the notes and the way he plays with a rock sound you know with the distorted guitar so that was the like whoa yeah that was one of those moments in my life just like hearing Hendricks and Jeff Beck and Clapton and Paige he planned that there top of their powers hit that same besides the Beatles which is the first hit you know but that one just hit me because that was like that I had been going I want to do something different than all the rest everybody else so I basically got sucked into that album Hard I remember Carlos Rios was very young at the time he came over my house and he knew the soul and some of that sold so you know he's another great player a great guy but uh you know that one really hit me and then through that then I was listening to Jay Grayden playing on his great Gino Vannelli records and we had some great solos on the early a m records not prior to him having the biggest hit that he had but I used to love all those early uh Geno records great changes oh yeah Jade ripped him Jay was doing all he was the call so when I met Jay through Jeff picardo David page I met David Foster who was a huge influence and help in my early career but I met all these guys and Larry Larry used to let me come up to the house and hang out with him and he was pretty Stern with me man like he wasn't you know in what way he's not he's not a lovey-dovey guy I mean like I don't know it's not to say he's not a great guy Larry I'll come up and jump on you and hug you he would never do that right you know what I mean it's just every World different that way but he's an incredibly great guy but and shared information that I will I mean I used to when we did when he we did this tour together in 1998 it was one of those Japanese things let's put guys together and they offered him a list of people he said this is trying to get Lukey out here and see what's going on just try to and we had a blast and every night an hour before the show I'd walk into the Larry's dressing room with a guitar okay what's my lesson for the day and and because I go well I got a captive audience here now after studying and stuff all these years and I had already made a name for myself whatever it was 1998. Larry was so gracious in sharing his knowledge and part of that knowledge was you know most people think in terms of scales and linear things like that but with Larry what he taught me some of the information he taught me I could he didn't give it to me oh I'm not smart enough to take in all the information Larry Carlton has but he shared with me the way he thinks in terms in terms of Triads with different bass notes like in the key of E it's like you know people say let's just jam and Model E and yeah [Music] and he goes but if somebody's just vamping you also have working all the way up the scale with or any kind of altered you know right that's still just a d flat yeah but if you think if you get out of this a lot of people get freaked out with the whole 13 flat nine what do I play over that I don't know Theory Larry simply try it well this is what Larry opened up for me it's like okay you can look at it that way and technically that's what it is but if you just look at it as a d flat chord with an E right in the bass that opens up a lot more real estate for you to go where can I go with that because all we all did all I ever did when I was young was copy the solos of my favorite artists and then you know sneak in as time goes by all that thievery you've done that we all do right if you do it long enough and you're not just you know xeroxing and playing it you incorporate some of those ideas in your own plan that's how you develop your own style yeah there's only 12 notes I mean how many they've been played maybe every permutation of a great Melodies was done 10 000 years ago and here we are just trying to make sense of it well Larry what he did on that record on the two solos and Don't Take Me Alive and get Charlemagne was so different that caught my ear and I said I want to do that he is I think it was during your interview with Larry yeah that he talked about that and he gave he goes I was just a message you know and then is Larry he is so confident he has Perfect Pitch whether he admits it or not right and there's nothing nominal memory for stuff but yeah all those guys I mean like I said he's sitting I learned so much from the cats that I sat next to and the dean Parks let's talk about Dean parks for a minute not enough you need to have Dean on this show I love Dean he's incredible he's one of the most unspoken not unspoken unherald right to where he should be you asked Larry yeah who the [ __ ] baddest cat he said next to he's going to tell you Dean yeah and now Dean started and went to high school with our original bass player David hungate they were both horn players at North Texas State this is why they both read so good yeah Dean's in here first of his acoustic playing his Flawless technique but Dean plays Haitian divorce yeah I mean no more choices and that's a forever girl Dean I've sat next to Dean so many times he's one of the nicest most gracious humble Geniuses that I've ever known and everybody knows everybody else and everybody but like you need to have Dean on this show yeah I can tell you he's a I have a show you know what I I did interview Dean and Jay there you go and uh but I haven't today is another genius guy he's a genius I mean he he can he all he does all is learn stuff yeah like he's just if there's anything about anything on planet Earth but particularly music yeah I mean he's like he still practices his perfect pitch even though he hasn't done a date in 35 years or whatever right it just he loves the music Still Jay's you know he taught me so much about getting my sound recommending me for dates and hired me on his stuff and he you know he's been a dear dear brother of mine for 46 years okay I want to ask you guys 46 I've got 46 years in though let's talk about Rhythm Parts before we talk about solos I love your Rhythm playing the stuff that you do you just you just make them up on the spot though oh no every day I mean that was when I got hired one because I was a great reader I mean that's tell TV film you want to you have to be an excellent reader for television film because that's every day and you never know what you're going to get you can get a two-part classical Etude or you could get surf guitar you don't know what you're gonna get you know I mean that's that's a whole lot I'm like I did a few of those enough to scare the [ __ ] out of myself I don't belong here I really don't belong I belong on the record side and the irony is those guys pension is insane the film guys yeah yeah and the guys that wrote their own Parts get this how much do you think I get from the museum I'm gonna bust the [ __ ] Musicians Union right now now I'm a legit signed the union contracts I was doing 20 some odd dates a week man you know legit for what 25 something odd years I stopped doing it like almost 25 years ago but you know you would think my pension would be pretty good especially since I wrote 98 of all my parts which I got no royalty now you plug in the drum machine you're a [ __ ] writer I don't get that right but I get a thousand dollars a month taxable the shitty medical after 50 years plus in the musicians union with all those doing legit contracted Union dates with all those songs from me no it doesn't matter if it's a hit song or not that doesn't have anything to do with you did the session you're on the contract you got paid most of the time I didn't charge more than double scale unless somebody wanted to offer it to me and a few people did but Jeffrey Carl told me goes don't ever ask for triple scale they'll kill you on your way down because no matter where it is you can't stay there forever unless you're going to stay in television film then you can still be Dean and be number one forever there's a couple other guys that I don't know that are doing it too there's some young cats that are supposed to be brilliant but I don't know some of the younger guys I mean the guys that I know that are playing records are Tim Tim Pierce and Mike Thompson and I think my my brother Michael Landau one of my favorite musicians and my oldest friend since we were 12. he does some stuff but he's around though we're Road dogs because the road dog they hate to say it but I want to talk about parts coming up with parts how do you know what a song needs Luke when you're when you're sitting there when you get a chart that this is what's written on it [Music] sorry about the distorted guitar it's kind of set up for something else but you get the idea yeah that's what my that's what my chart looked like there was just B minor slash a it the how many times I played through some permutation of that chord change in a week would stagger you right so you're so like for example that particular son will use it as an example just because you talk about hit songs or something like that yeah now we don't rehearse we don't get any demos we don't know we just show up who's playing with me oh where's Jeffrey Carlos Lewis Johnson there's no idea who's on the date no I mean I know like Michael McDonald wants me the plans but you know I get a call from uh what was it uh Lenny Warner and Ted templeman okay so I'm like yeah I'm in you know this is like 1980 or something like that Michael's first solo album because yeah with the doobies at the time and already had the hits Michael was actually supposed to be in our band really yeah because Michael and Jeff Vaccaro were in Steely Dan together oh man they're on that too you know the countdown to ecstasy yeah before before Kitty lot right yeah so so that was all Michael so then Michael joined the Doobie Brothers a week before Jeff bakar and Paige asked him to sing in our band before we met Bobby and all this other stuff there was a couple other guys that were in line but I wasn't even aware of but anyway getting back to the song yeah so so Michael always wrote These great songs I always love Michael McDonald and he's he's a he's a dear brother but you know he had this great tomb but like what are you gonna play so so Jeff starts playing his Groove when Lewis immediately falls into the groove and I just start playing [Music] and that was we had that sorted out by the time the first run through had ended take two was the record as I remember okay so when you guys are playing these things this just so I can have a mental image of this you're doing a tracking date who's in the room how far apart are you guys did you have your amps isolated at the time yeah they put my amp in a back room I think Don latty took a DI off me too he told me that once a day how far how far apart are you guys standing typically right here man like there's Michael's at a Rhodes Paige was playing this he had this um clapping up with a wang bar on okay you ever seen that before no it's a it's a clapping up and it has this thing on it where he goes dude and everybody wants to play guitar right right so but but he was playing all those fills and we Michael was singing live and everything like that we were all in the room together playing together I don't recall a click although sometimes Jeffy could give me the click don't give it to anybody else because I like that sometimes and by the second take you could tell you look in the control room whenever he's jumping up and down dancing to Michael's smile you go I think we're onto some and there were other times you'd be a day three playing the same ballad and you just go kill me but that was that was I am not I probably would be like [Music] you know just making some tasty little thing but you have to do it for three days but that was rare though that was in the 70s where they hire us to sit in a room while they did drum sounds all day long right that's when trouble ensued yeah and that's when like you know uh you know where's the band I think they're in the women's path head of your times kids don't try this at home a long time ago okay so so I always harp on these things I talk about the uh the joke about before there was Pro Tools there were Pros that was Dean Parks was the first guy heard say that before there were before there was Pro Tools there were Pros okay so so funny but kind of true thing you know okay so having to get things right you rarely did punchings right oh man you know I wouldn't say you know rarely I mean in terms of like you do it when you need to do it yeah because if something's great and you [ __ ] up one note right you know what would happen was and this happened a lot because Jeff bakar was so [ __ ] good is that he always played his best [ __ ] the first couple of times right and at that time a lot of producers are like we can fix everything else but we got a great drum truck we're the Steely Dan asked those guys all they cared about was the drum track right you know and then if you know if they kept anything else or they could call guys back in to perfect their parts to the take that they've edited together or whatever you know and those guys were a huge influence Steely Dan was like you know the Beatles in my number was Steely Dan's in there too man because I mean just of what it did to me harmonically and how much I love their music too yep I always you know for one second I got to you know I almost got to be in Steely Dan once in 1977 before our first album uh they were looking to go on the road again and Irving azov God bless him took a shine to me and he was made and they needed a guitar player like they had Walter but they wanted somebody to be the rock guy or would it be the Jeff Baxter kind of guy I guess and that I fit that bill um and they said yeah you and Denny Diaz and Denny's always been a great Danny father what a great Point some of those songs oh amazing it's just amazing nobody plays like that nobody plays the perfect notes that's a perfect phrase yes I don't care how he got there I know what the record sounds like I just did a few takes and you know those guys they put one together but he played it well so we actually got together and pride Jeff was going to play drums it was like really exciting it was before we started our first album and I thought wow and Jay was a little bugged at me because because he had played on Peg you know and I'm going look they asked me Jay you know he's like man a lot of guys I said I I said it's not me man I said I won't do it I love you so much you've been so I won't do it how's that now I called Jeff and I said Jeff's look I came back on and then the thing fell apart for one with some financial [ __ ] that I'm not privy to but I was got to I was almost there ah and I got to play with Donald once I got to play with Walter once and they were always really nice to me and stuff and they're like Heroes to me God bless Walter's Soul he was you know great stuff you know McDonald's I mean that music Soul music to me and I learned so much dissecting it still does it still sounds great it still sounds amazing it doesn't look gated no it doesn't sound like it sounds better than it did it just makes you feel it's feel good intelligent great lyrics great harmonic grooves I mean everything that's that's me some people don't like this stuff I want you to get back to this yeah once you get back we're back to when when did I see you know wouldn't figure out what to play on a track yeah it's the first and see back then there was no demos you know like you showed up and the artist would sit behind the piano or an acoustic guitar and maybe somebody had written out a chord sheet I can't tell you how many records I did on a legal pad just writing down so would they would they demo the song For You on the piano no they just sit down and play yeah that's right maybe somebody had a cassette recording of them playing at home or something but typical demos didn't happen until the 80s they would just play it in the room with you yeah and you just write down what the chart was yeah one of us was usually we picked the perfect pitch guy like Foster or something like that you know you do it because he could do it with us and we'd have a chord chart and then we'd go up and start [ __ ] around with grooves and stuff and then you see the artists get excited and the producer get it because they hired us they gave us a sketch and we had to make the painting we had to paint it how much of the and I kind of know the answer this but you're always looking to the producer and what people are doing in the control room to see if they're if the vibe's right right oh you can no you can tell when something's happening you really can't wait what's it like when it's not happening what are they doing they're brutal let's just you finish the take and it's like nothing nothing there's a dead there's a A Moment Like an uncomfortable pause before the talk back comes back on guys I mean that was pretty good man um let's just try another one what do you want us to do I don't know it just didn't happen did you know you're way off never going on this is gonna be a long day yeah now the guys that were smart getting back to the drum tracks is is if they heard if Jeff would play some magical [ __ ] his body language he could sell a producer on a tank sometimes we'd be on one of these dates for you know not we always gave our all no matter what but some of us says you're going to just kidding me out of here I got a seven man you know what I mean it's like five o'clock you know let's get this done because it was just staying it wasn't when things are moving up you get excited and you want to stay with it until you get the tank are there are times when you knew you had a great part and the producer was like yeah I'm singing something different do you think you know the worst back in the days before there were tons of tracks you'd have 24 tracks that was it yeah and one track for yourself one track so it's like you had to nail it if you [ __ ] up you could punch in on the one track there was a couple times I'd get half of it right and I go I made one wrong let me punch in there and that's the end of it uh what sucks is that you're going you play something real good and they used to piss him off because I get it done fast my first [ __ ] when I'm not thinking about it so much is when I play my more adventurous I haven't worked out in my mind what works yet or what makes people happy I'm just kind of they go play anything you want what do you hear and I go for something and I think it's pretty good I was a little more cocky then because I was doing it all the time I was like the idea was how many takes a day I get it done in one two maybe you know it was stupid childish [ __ ] but you know what I mean we were all like that we tease each other what we love and respected each other a lot and but anyway getting back to it I play something really good and they go I think you got a better one in you and I go you know what man you can't keep that one I mean I go Chris like when that's gone it's gone forever right magnetic Heaven or Hell depending on how you wanna look at it and a couple of times man yeah I they do it and they erase it I go okay I'll go for it I'll try to use something to incorporate some of the ideas but it's never never the same right and then they keep making you do it and do it and do it and they go can you remember what you played the first time and I go when that dribbled out of their mouth I'm like before I needed glasses I'd be like you know sometimes you gotta live with it and there was other times I really wanted to punch something in because like for example I'm going to give myself away okay I did this song that I co-wrote with for the tubes called talk to you later loved the song I was just talking about and that was one of those things we got one channel yeah and I did I ripped that in one but the very last bend it was a little under I go come on man let me just just punch me on the last note it don't last and no I'm not touching it because if we lose it then we're like you know so there's there's some flaws there's flaws on every record I've ever done sometimes I leave them in on purpose to see like just to say like well you know all my favorite records have little mistakes doesn't it uh after a certain amount of time you forget what you didn't like about it yeah often times because I don't listen to my own records unless I have to go back and listen to something to learn for a tour or something like that when you work really hard on a record listen to it a billion times after it's final mixed I get I listen to it for about two weeks real hard and then I don't listen to it again when you were doing these sessions all the time you would know would you always recognize when you're listening to the radio that oh I played on this tune or were there songs that you really I have no idea I played out yeah most of the time until my buddy Dan Huff came into town and like he started you know he had he liked my stuff and he started playing there was a couple solos and I went is that me and yeah I love Dan first off he's a dear friend and a brilliant musician and now he don't play like that anymore when he first came to town David Hungary knew him in Nashville and said there's this kid down enough that really likes the way he wants to come out there so the first well that was the only time I went he was the guy that turned me on to Aaron Johnson when I was doing because he's on the first record no he yeah he's on the second record yeah he was the one when I do they hired me to be on the second record yeah and I played a bunch of [ __ ] on that yeah and he says hey man Luke he goes to this guy Eric Johnson I said you know because you should hear this can't do Hendrix because they were both from Texas well yeah they were friends they are still our friends yeah and you know Chris can [ __ ] play Chris is a great player good to see you know I mean you know and he's also a sweet guy I made a video about about that's the solo on Ride Like the Wind is the greatest solo you can't hear because it's that loudest album man Paige buried me the whole they buried you the whole time I know with something that mad at him but I was 19. why did they do that I don't like the guitar so it's too loud it bothers me I go oh my God I've talked with him for years the first three two albums yeah I mean white sister these Souls I want to hear these things I want to hear what you're playing they're way too buried in the mix and the arm wrestle ahead back there but this is this was a common thing it wasn't just on your records because the Christopher Cross on Ride Like the Wind he plays a solo at the end you can't even hear it you can hear it Michael McDonald you have to Winston it's like Michael McDonald's background vocals are louder not that that's a bad thing they're they're great yeah well Michael and Martin the guy who produced director is a great friend you know he was one of the only guys that may be the only guy that could sight read his piano they could sight read Donald figgins piano parts which I'm sure Donald wrote Dynamic markings and everything detail was their detail was their thing and that's the detail that we all love and that's right because he was right I mean but but a lot of cats man sit down like uh filling games could do that feeling games could read the department the solo on uh on Donald solo album which is one of my desert island albums the nightfly yeah Ruby baby that piano so it was like the perfect piano so it was like one take you know they don't usually get too many ones okay if Steely Dan were around with Pro Tools would they have ever finished a record probably a lot faster don't know I think there was something about when when you get hired of playing one of those records because I I didn't I would have loved to have but um I know all the guys that did and what was like you know and you know I think they dug the process of making people bleed for it because it's different than programming it right there's an a there's something I can't even articulate verbally that would explain what that must be it's kind of an X Factor it's like you get four or five guys in a room with four different kinds of time feel whereas this thing becomes group time where everybody one guy might be a little ahead one guy plays a little back but somehow it falls into this thing and you can't write it out and you can't rehearse it right matter of fact some of the worst things you can do is rehearse of a record before you go in the studio and get all your good [ __ ] out of rehearsal it just they'd hire different Rhythm sections and even doing the same song and they had the money to do this they spent their money on the records you know it was their art that's what they lived they knew what they wanted even if other people didn't understand it I can't speak for Donald Fagan and Walter Becker but I'm just from the what I've heard and how much of a fan I am and what I listen to and the way Jeff bakar will talk to me about what those sessions were like I think that that Larry Carlton told me uh that when they did when they did Asia that track because somebody else played played drums on it the day before and he walked in the studio and Steve gab was there the next day he goes I guess we're and he saw the charts I guess we're doing that again and you know Steve again story what no the Sarah no I hope Steve don't be mad at me man or maybe I'm getting this a little wrong but the legend has it that Steve showed and that was a 12-page chart without doubt I mean of course it's one of the greatest pieces of music ever written for popular music if you will one of the greatest performers Larry did the Char right they went to Larry because Larry is massive ears yes one of the greats of all time yeah Carlton come on man yeah we give it up for Larry come sense it yes um he had those charts and I remember being up as pad man he's like hey you want to see the chart and then yeah man let me see what that looked like and he would write out the really important stuff yeah write voicings in the right voicings the hits that needed to happen but you noticed on these charts there was room he came up with all of his Parts those great amazing you know Asia I mean come on so good you know only he'd come up with something great that's right you know what I mean so there was stuff like that uh but you know those he would tell me stories about just what it was like but Gad came in and he was a little late because he was always late back then you know it was the fun it was a joke about the New York guys who always come in four or five hours late and we're sitting around getting paid for doing nothing you know that's how they did things in New York okay but anyway long story short I wasn't on the date but this was told to me guys who were on the session that he came in late and he was you know maybe he had a little too much Fiesta the night before I mean gas was sober for like 40 years this is a long time ago so and I wasn't there but this was telling me he looked a little like oh God this guy you know and you know Steve just put that shirt up they counted it off and that was the take oh my God it was needed one kind of done maybe one or two takes but whatever it is is the record that solo machine and he's sight reading that that's unbelievable man Steve's wanted to grow I spent a lot I've spent some time with Steve back in the day I love you know he's you know we used to hang a lot I haven't seen him a long time so James Taylor and Clapton and all these guys you know one of the greats of all time besides Toto some of the records like Thriller for example you played yeah [Music] [Applause] [Music] Michael had that sang me the lick okay but oh yeah he's dead they had that going for like 45 bars or something like that you know [Applause] I said that make it more interesting I had to sell them on it but they finally went for it uh but and I played bass on it too okay and then Eddie played the solo but see the lead vocal in the electric guitar still are already done there was another take of Beat It and when Eddie did the solo now yeah what's the story on that okay did you call him no claim them to do that Eddie had already played on it all right so your part was already done no wait okay what happened okay let's hear this Michael and Quincy they had done another take of it apparently okay and had Michael's they had worked on Michael's vocals and they used to meticulously get like you know his vocals were quintupled at times okay you know but very slickly done by The Genius of Bruce Woody and the engineer yep and Eddie when they sent the tape up to add it's the the ambig ambiguity lies us who cut the tape okay it was simply coat need I say anything I'll explain what that is explain that now Don Landy would be too smart for this but and I originally said I think Don did it in Donkey I was like I didn't do that wait explain symptoms what 224 track tape machines back in the day when you were after we were able to discover we could get more than 24 tracks with one machine they were able to sync up two 24 track machines which would give you 48 tracks actually 46 because because you have the track 24 on both tracks had a simply code which I believe was some sort of a permutation of a 60 Cycle thing that would lock the machines yes now like anything like any other system like that if you cut that it will not lock up that's right so what happened was Ed didn't want to play through the section of the song that they wanted him to so he cut the tape to cut play the part that's now the record okay so what happened was he did that set that back to Quincy and it wouldn't sync up so we had Eddie's first generation and Michael's first generation vocals and this empty code with the only thing else was on the track was it was a Michael hitting a trap case on two and four blah blah and leakage through four or five takes of Michael's headphones singing the vocal where you could hear what the old track was oh my so Quincy called me Jeffrey Carl and an engineer named Umberto Gatica to go to Sunset sound okay and fix the track for him he goes you gotta make the track backwards to what you can hear on the tape because I'm not I don't want to do Michael's vocals again I don't want to transfer him because I want to keep it first generation and Eddie so on this you got to make it work so he called me Jeff we went down there and Jeff the magician that he was he goes we're like how are we going to do this and Jeff goes I'm going to go out and I want you to crank Michael's book oh my God and the two and four and let me make a click and he went out there with two drumsticks and a mic not like this and went he made his own classic Jeff click that he would do with the drumsticks right and I miss him so [ __ ] much he was the best um and he and he got that together he goes I'm gonna let me go out and play the drums of this thing and then get it done so of course he goes out I it could have been the first no more in the second take it was he was done he goes because you're up so once I knew where the groove was at I just my first initial thing because Eddie was on it and I heard something was great I go like I got a [ __ ] I got them so wait do you play I got the Marshall you had to redo the Rhythm tracks after Eddie put a solo down okay now my initial thought to do it [Music] really cranked up you know something like that yeah cranked up quadruple with Marshalls because Eddie's on it I figure well that's they're going for the rock ship so I did that and then I played the bass part to it okay which was easy it's just the guitar part it's not like I was doing Jaco Pastorius bonehead bass I'm real good at but anyway so we sent it back to q and they go we love it except it's he goes Lukey it's too much I gotta get this on pop and army B radio and it's just too it's too metal you got to come back down he goes get that little fender ears out don't turn it all the way up give it a gas but and I said okay I get what you mean so I I took it I went back and I just double tracked it on two uh with my 59 bursts plugged straight into a modded uh Rivera modded me an old blackface Deluxe that I used for years anyway I did that and that was fine then I went down they said Perfect come down to Westlake and let's do the rest of the overdropes with Michael and me and I said great so that's when we came up with the you know all that so what Michael sang that first part the distance would he sing that to you though he used to sing his little demos but I never heard the demo okay but but oh [Music] that that was his riff his vocal riff he came up with that okay and people think if if I wrote that we could have been on my space shuttle talking about this right that's right Brad I would have made but you know the same thing happened on human nature you know like I was another B minor special you know what I mean uh Steve picar wrote the song great song and he ended up flying around incredible song and you know his the story of how that all happened is one thing but you know they love the song they cut the whole song yep they did all the stuff and then Quincy called me in to do an overdub okay you got to make this funky for me I got to get this it's it's too pop right now it needs a little something I need some glue and I and there was nothing really Quincy never wrote out parts for me even though he's Quincy Jones yeah you know unless there was something really specific that everybody had to play I hired you to be you and I heard the part and the first thing that came out was you know I'm not um I used to be really good at these muted notes because I really the thing you need to know is common tones that's how you get together muted Parts when you play an r b anything you're trying to find a little cool part that percolates it along but you're not in anybody's way I was really good at coming up with that stuff and my studies helped me not only get the year for it but to understand okay I'm in the key of B minor what I mean what are my common tones through these changes even though they're not exactly Bebop changes where you're changing Keys you still had to know your you did the same thing you know so I I just didn't that makes a song [Music] and all I had was B minor that's when I got hired it wasn't because I could do all this because you know I still can't do all this that is amazing you're so good at those muted guitar parts the thing was I have an arrangers here yeah and that's what city musicians the guys that were really successful all have the same a Ranger's ear yeah you have to know when you sit down and look at a chart and it says B minor a g or E whatever it is simple like say you're playing behind a songwriter which most guitarists when they're trying to make a living that's the kind of gigs you get very few cats can go out and do gigs and Shred the way that they really want to like you know how many Joe Satriani Steve Vice jetpacks guys that can go out and play instrumental music in an arena there's not that many of them right although there's some young kids coming up I got mommy on that kid Tim Henson the neck of those guys toasting I don't see those guys are doing some other stuff and kids are catching on them they see millions of followers on these guys anyway I don't know these guys but I love them anyway they're breaking yes is is that what I did I could I was able to be and and all the guys in the room at the various instruments especially when I'm sitting next to two guitar players now how easy is it to get that going on that was the thing that you know the Rapport you had with the other guitars whether you know especially when there's no when there was no guitar one or two written I was just like here's the two of us what are we gonna somebody go starts going for a muted part you go okay that's you okay and and then you come up with an arpeggiated part or something that complements a a muted part that works we used to do that a lot of Boz Scaggs records me and Ray Parker Jr used to have this great thing where we could both didn't sound like we've rehearsed it to just happened anyway long story short you got to be able to listen to some of these simple music and hear parts around the melody in the chair here's the changes and here's the lead Melody with the lyrics or whatever now what goes on around here is usually what makes a song different from being a record okay the the the part in human nature where you do that descending part the sustain part well that was part of the melody [Music] so good well that was just luck you know I got lucky and I went with like okay this I think this was going and then I love it this is great where preparation meets opportunity well I didn't have any prep I just did that was the first thing how you prepped your whole life for that you know that's the thing um it's a it's a muscle that some people have like there were sessions where there was some incredibly famous incredible musicians I'm not going to name names that would end up being stuck in the room with us they were a regular session guy but they were there to be themselves it was like great I'm playing with so-and-so and whatever instrument and it's like wow wow this is going to be great and then you see the cat man you'd be playing we grabbed the chart and we didn't rehearse and then by the first take we were pretty much honed our part in her or at least we're talking about before the second take no I'm not going to do that you do you know we have these little chats with ourselves and then when you talk to the artist I like that that's too much you know whatever you had it right there but there'd be this cat and they just sit there and they wouldn't play yeah just look at the face like they just didn't know the red light fever that's another the pressure's deep man yeah you can't fold up man I mean uh you know because things are tough man you gotta you gotta you gotta double down are you out but after a while though after you've done hundreds of these sessions so then you pretty much know what to do right what's expected of okay but after but if you don't deliver I mean a lot of sometimes listen man I don't care if you're you know the greatest Super Bowl player in the world you'll drop a [ __ ] catch every once in a while yeah it happened to me the other night man I was [ __ ] my gear freaks out well what can I say it's live you know what I mean it's not one of my greatest knives but hey it's not my fault there's a 50 cycle hum blazing through everything but anyway and that'll throw you off your game you know when something goes squirrely on stage you know I remember moving just like one night we were playing live and and I just happened to move out of the way in a place where I normally wouldn't move in a park hand fell and would have crushed oh my God and when you're on stage and there's glass shards in your arm you're still playing the song you're going I was almost a dead man when you come off the stage it's very weird you know because there's been there's a lot of accidents that could happen right anyway I got off I got off topic here where were we we were about Parts on songs let's start let's talk about Parts on Toto's songs let's talk about some solos for example you know I got to be honest I don't remember all of them you don't have to there's a couple that I like Rosanna I pretty much play the same but no okay let's talk about Rosanna let's talk about that so so when that when that uh when that solo did did you improvise that solo yeah okay so then I double tracked it right afterwards so that's what I used to do a lot and I used to be really good at it I could play an improvised solo and then double track it right away because I remember I had that Frosty memory before I lit it on fire during the 80s okay so that's solo well there's the two solos in it the second song the one at the end that whole song was never supposed to be there right we learned we don't rehearse we never rehearse right can we show up who's got 10 page always had songs but by the fourth album we were all encouraged to write you know because we were started I would start writing stuff on the third album and Dave was really come on man you got stuff in you let's get it out but he sat down day one at Sunset Sunday brings in Rosanna yeah he sits down the piano and starts playing it okay and we're going this is great man this is a movement because the record company said you don't have a hit record next time you're toast there's motivation the motivation so we were like okay we're gonna do this so we're gonna give him what they want Dave was Dave's always been one of my very favorite songwriters because he just brings it and uh he sat down with this thing and we said we love this is going to be great and it was a bone diddly Groove originally okay and then you sing the song to that and Jeff had been listening to nothing but Bernard Purdy uh you know Babylon sisters and Fool in the Rain by Led Zeppelin yeah and he that's all he was playing them birdie and he you know he was you know so so we Dave starts saying that he can Jeff goes no no no no that ain't the groove man he sat down behind the drums and started playing what is now the legendary group that he came up with and Dave started playing that he goes that's good we're all going hungate started playing Hungary started writing down a quick little chart for us just to get what's going on we sat around the piano because I'm not sure we should sing this yet because he had me and Bobby kibble and and that's how sometimes how we figured out how did you decide to divide the vocal in the middle whoever wrote the songs a lot of times if I wrote my song myself I would say yeah it was one of Dave's songs yeah it would either be relegated to Bobby who was our original singer with a high tenor yep and all of us saying I sang probably more Dave and I also sang so some of he goes let's let me hear you on this yeah and I sounded okay and G yeah and he goes but I want to hear Kimball and Kimball could it was too low too low for him right so he says let me find that keys and he goes I got an idea why don't you sing this part and we'll modulate into this and that wasn't the Way It Was Written when he brought it in this is all happening on on the same minutes before we're gonna cut the trash okay play it for the first time all right we haven't played it yet right so Jeff's got the groove hungate and him were like this and so that was and then Dave had his thing and then you know I can't [Music] right and and that was on the tracking date and uh we started playing that and I didn't play anything in the middle solo because I figured I was going to overdub that so I kept the rhythm going in that yeah but it was supposed to end like and yeah at the end of it and this used to happen a lot When We Were Young we were just young part one of playing Jam so we figured out we got to take we're looking at everybody's going like this it was take two and uh the first time we scuffled through and made a few mistakes okay let me do this a few changes okay this is it take two and uh at the end Jeff just went from the bath and he started playing that second line [ __ ] and Paige went right into his Professor long hair impression wait a minute and I started just playing and that was like that okay so he starts out with the piano fills there and then you come in with your solo and that was that was on the spot yeah when did you decide that you're gonna leave that whole ending on there right then you're like oh you said well we were we were playing it was really it was really thought that it was pretty good in real Schmidt legendary engineer Al Schmidt God bless his soul yep he was so cool he was I learned so much from him about engineering but anyway um he uh I I remember we all leaned over when it finally ended did you get all that now it goes absolutely and we all went in then I then I double tracked my you know the power parts and stuff and then I did the middle solo right there yeah [Music] all right [Music] at least people play it okay licks like licks like that was just like a thing then I had to double what was that like again okay so so when that was 1981 so come on okay so licks like that right that's what would you even call that style it has notes outside of a rock pentatonic thing right you know what I mean I I I would never call myself a jazz musician I'm calling myself a rock musician the study music loves Jazz Loves R B loves all the fusion loves all of it but I never transcribe to transcribe the Coltrane Solo in my life and I didn't sit with the fake book and I don't know every you know two five one turnaround that everybody but you did you listen to players like Joe Pass oh yeah listen man you know I studied all this stuff I go I love jazz but you want to be a jazz player player your buddy Pat Metheny would tell you this because I read a great thing somebody told Mike Thompson told me that he studied with with uh Pat in Berkeley back in the day and so Pat said look do you want to play jazz like you know you guys that's a 24-hour gig man he goes you're a great player but you do be you right and there's something to be said for that so I mean we all steal from who we steal from and get inspired from what we get inspired from but at the end of the day when you put it in the milkshake blender it comes out but those notes that's the stuff that hit me when I was well it wasn't typical pentatonic no and I thought using chromatics while defining the the actual shape of the cord without being an obvious and that is your style there I don't know what my stuff my style is like you're hanging on for dear life this is the thing it's like you oh it's interesting your improvisation sound like you're hanging out for dear life and yet you don't ever you don't make mistakes sure I do you just don't hear them I can punch it in on a record and you're live I make mistakes all the time man and you know what really pisses me off and I make mistakes on dumb [ __ ] oh the worst it's the worst one it's one thing if you're going for something really difficult and you're kind of flub another people go ah man okay listen I know how you feel but when you're playing something really stupid and it's wrong and it's really loud I always Ringo man we were doing a uh [Music] right yeah first time we ever played it oh no I was like don't tell me [Music] I mean I just [ __ ] had a stroke or something like that in the middle it wasn't that bad but it was bad enough you know one of the dodgy note and you know I was afraid to look something like the comments like you know yeah it's like a rookie mistake what do you suck you old man dementia set in you know I don't want to read this [ __ ] everybody makes mistakes I remember seeing Larry Carlton at Dante's once he broke a string and you go oh [ __ ] man broke a string he smiled he turned around and got the Clippers on cut off the B string so now I only have four strings cut the fourth cut the third string off it's just a little three strings and he played the most brilliant Soul you've ever heard in your life with three [ __ ] strings I said well there you go when I saw Larry play at baked potato and uh it wasn't Larry's gig it was uh uh uh Greg yeah I remember that I remember this I'm sitting there at the front table I was there with Tim Pierce and um and Larry played happy birthday he played the most amazing harmonization of happy birthday every night on the spot when I was there was a song called it was unbelievable [Music] but before he would do that every night he would play Accord Molly he's an amazing never played the same we did right it was ever remotely close right he would find and even if he was going over something he kind of like went off he'd find a way to make that work I asked him right he dug that I said anything you know I said Larry you just you improvised that right he said oh yeah that was unbelievable let's go back to Rosanna I want to talk about the verse muted guitar part right oh yeah so that stuff you can play all day here's the thing I I've been paid to play rhythm guitar 90 of the time so it's one of those kind of things that some people starting out now that I've seen uh you know you Dazzle you online but they've spent time to you know get the take and there's nothing wrong with that we spent time in the studio getting a great take right I'm not talking about that but the a lot of these guys they didn't spend a lot of time doing the dumb [ __ ] which is learning how to display simple with a drummer and groove it's harder than it looks yeah for the click track yeah make it happen very intimidating that's right because it keeps I saw some of these Wonder Kids you know years ago not the ones we got today but years ago on the Internet or when that was first starting out and these cats could play Brand and you've seen with The NAMM Show and they're three bars ahead of their backing track because they're nervous as [ __ ] and it's in their whole Mystique has been blown because you I'm not saying you need to sit in front of a click track all day long I mean if you're a natural musician time is something that should feel pretty normal to you but playing along the records and figure out why that feels good a lot of Records didn't have clicks that's why you know people that give you did the Beatles if anybody gets wrinkled it was the click here I am the click and he is he is man let me tell you and all the creative drum Parts instead of going boom Schmick boom boom smack which would have fit all of us but and come to all those creative drum Parts those were his Parts yeah and without those that's right the signs would not be sounding completely different that's right every all four of those guys created the genius that's right and they're all Geniuses on their own right but collectively there was magic there that you can't rehearse learn find it it's magic from God from Heaven whatever you want to believe in I mean I believe it's somewhat Heaven Sent you know I mean I don't think that fast why did I play why did this part come into my head when I heard these chord changes I I really wish I could tell you I was that brilliant but I mean something inspires me and it it's like one day I could play the guitar couldn't play and one day I could it was very weird I'm sitting in my front struggling through it and one nobody's ever gonna believe this I told the story before but you know all of a sudden I went well like and when my mother was pregnant a psychic told her that that I was was probably going to be a musician when a certain eight years old all of a sudden would make sense to me I saw the Beatles when I started playing when I was around eight it's very strange okay I want to ask you about this about about your right hand okay so I'm seeing you play up right here and your right hand is so relaxed now my teacher it was it's all about first off relaxing the wrist right if you're stiff like this not only is it harder to execute but it's also going to give you tendonitis one of these days right second advice number two when it starts to hurt from practicing please stop please stop get up stretch it out walk around otherwise you're going to practice yourself into hell then you won't be able to play at all I got a couple friends of mine that have done that oh yeah they would never put it down I'm gonna stay in my house all day long practice 16 hours a day now they can't play at all so what was the point of that exercise if you're a weight lifter you don't just sit there and lift up 300 pounds all day long your muscles are going to go like this you know but it's the same thing with any musical instrument when it hurts you gotta there's a reason why now if you're playing live and it's like you know then you're going to give up the blood but you gotta let it rest for a while you can't just keep at it otherwise it's like my knee I just have my knee replaced you know it's not my fault I just got old and wore it down to Bone and you got to get replacement parts I'm 65 the decade of replacement parts are there things that you wanted to have practiced or think about practicing any new ideas like you know when I see you know I remember when I first heard Alan Holdsworth yeah and he God bless his soul he became he was a good friend man I mean I mean I could I'm not good enough to curl up his cables but you know we were buddies you know and and you know outside off the gig but I used to go see him play and before I mean he when I heard believe it the Tony Williams album in 1975 before Eddie was even thought of yeah in terms of fame um I I we didn't understand what that was and how it was happening but we listened to it over did you go see him play Live actually I had no he wasn't playing around at that time um but we did get to know each other a little bit used to go see when he started playing around town I went to see him talk about how great of a guitar player Helen was yeah and the worst part about it he played the most astounding [ __ ] and then he'd come off the gig on that's the worst I've ever played and I said well then I guess we should all go and kill ourselves then Allen because you know there's no point in it anymore but he was so humble to a fault I think he was like come on man what are you giving yourself you got to know that that's pretty good right that nobody else on planet Earth has can play chords unless they have eight fingers down here and you know he's just and it was so so that Legato thing yeah never really you know I can do a little bit of it but I mean that's something that I really wish I could I just think you know I got what I got I got to be happy I got more than I deserve it's it's another time and I think people having these styles if everybody does it that's right nobody has nobody's an individual you know it's like I remember talking to Ed about the whole you know you know the whole you know everybody does it what did he think of that he says did it bother him or did he did not care it depends on what mood he was in there we talked about him he says it's become a parlor trick I was just trying to make music and fill out the sound of a three-piece band and it all came off right Heartbreaker by Jimmy Page he just said yeah oh look what I found you know and then he went crazy discovering all that I'm sorry I'm playing all this [ __ ] real sloppy I'm just making bad examples but you know and then he said it became a thing you know and then when everybody didn't turn it into this thing he felt weird about it but then again you know that's why I mean everybody started doing it for a while and you know everybody myself included him and I never did it very well by the way but I won't do that anymore I won't get I won't get I won't do anything remotely because that was too important to me I know you and Edward were really really close friends it was a very very very very close friend I mean we saw each other a lot off the gig you know when we hung out we didn't sit around talking about guitar [ __ ] you know they were just being two idiots that kind of know what the life is hey we had a lot of fun did some crazy [ __ ] together but he was a sweet man all he cared about was playing and his family that's all he cared about talk about what was great out from your perspective about Ed's playing what what did you love about his playing everything um Trailblazer I mean we were doing our very first album and I'm thinking I'm 19 years old everybody's giving me all this love and [ __ ] like that you know and Paige he goes I got something I was doing I'm just about to do the soul and the song called girl goodbye he goes yeah before you start I want to play some I just got this new record and I go yeah what is this and they had a turntable in this dude if and he lives down the needle on eruption and plays it for me man you know it it was the most mind [ __ ] thing I've ever I go how and what what who how and then I'd heard of this guy we thought me and Landau thought oh really I speak for myself gazar is down here in Hollywood okay all right Van Halen was the headline Act now we had heard about a guy named Van Halen because landowner I used to go to Guitar Center and play guitars we couldn't afford and then the and we were good and the guys would come up and say you know there's another guy that comes in here from Pasadena you guys should meet him Van Halen I thought a guy was named Van Halen like a dude I didn't know it was a family right and we auditioned for kazarus we were 16 years old but we didn't tell him me and Landau and John Pierce we had a band and uh we got the gig until they found out we were 16. and then Van Halen was the headline act and they had been for a while and when the first Van Halen came out Eddie lied about his age and the first time we ever really hung out and had an all-nighter together she's like how the [ __ ] all these he goes he was two years older me I go they said you were this away because that was that wasn't me they lowered my age because they somehow thought it would make me cool at the end everybody found out it's not I'm not telling any secrets right right it's two years older man you see would have been 67. yeah but uh you know he just it blew my mind it blew the socks off of the guitar it was like Hendricks when he came in nobody knew what that [ __ ] what he was doing and how that would sound for me but Eddie was just on fire yeah and didn't play like anybody else and we need a cat we need another round there's a couple cats I've heard lately Lynn I may have mentioned that are turning it around taking the instrument in a different direction there's the purest there's always going to be the purists the great Blues players the great metal players that's good for a great country players but you know the guys that fall in the cracks and take the rock thing into another level maybe not in a commercial level if I could have one honest critique of modern rock music or modern pop music in general is that there's some phenomenal players that you go wow what there's not is a lot of phenomenal songs right you know put Stevie Wonder send one Your Love or anything off of the Stevie Wonder first five Stevie Wonder albums against what the harmonic content of a number one record is today now I'm an old bastard all the old guy and I'm gonna get to you just speaking from a harmonic standpoint of what a pop record could get away with when when you're saying beautiful just for people that you mean the harmony I mean the chords not being stupid one three five simple there was altered chords there were seventh ninth that's right even on possible somebody throw in something you know what I mean right and the assumption that the people in the audience are gonna go oh that's that jazz music I'm going to turn it off never answered anybody's mind no it was just the you know the beautiful Al jarreal records the Graydon produced and all those great Earth Wind and Firearms I am that uh Foster wrote and Purdue co-wrote and produced and I got to play a little bit on uh you know all those great songs in the stone after the love is gone you know a ballad with those Corners I remember hearing those guys writing that song we'd be on a Barbra Streisand session and Foster the greatest hey we got this new song it's called after the love is gone and it had the great whole tone minor modulation and you know nobody ever heard that before I was like whoa what was the last time you listen to popular anyway whoa what the heck what was that uh I'm not trying to put down modern music it's a different thing all together yeah because for music for us that was it there was no cell phone there's no distraction here so we got a new album we went to the guy's house we had the best stereo we all sat in a line so we go I'll get an equal [ __ ] distance between the left and right speakers side one would go on and nobody would really talk except something great and punch the guy behind you and then at the end of side one you go [ __ ] and then you discuss a little bit and you play side two same thing with having to go play side one again and we take these records in we take the artist's effort and it meant something and we studied we learned then we get out some guitars or something go like that's what was that me and Mike would sit around and hang out or some one of us would learn something and go like oh yeah this is well that's what it is you know and you know that was how you grew and then we had places that we had gigs we could do there's no gigs anymore which is really important there's no gigs there's no high school dances there's no teenage Fair where you go play and people come see you uh you know even backyard parties on a Friday night they'd hire a band you know even if it's all the beer you could drink in high school yeah great we're in but you know now it's all DJs that's right you know and you know okay cost effective you could turn it down nobody gets bummed out okay I get it play every song you want to hear great perfectly but where is the place for the young people to learn man I didn't get into recording students they've been playing for 14 years right okay right I didn't like walk into this and go you know I haven't played for two months and I made I wrote a song and I'm my parents tell me I'm great so they made me a perfect CD that looks like I'm a pro but you put it on it you're not ready yet right I'm not saying you're never gonna be ready but you're not ready now I wasn't ready when I was do you think Luke that that recording on tape I've asked a lot of people this that because of that because people didn't have they couldn't you just couldn't go into a studio you didn't have a pro tools at your house anybody could make anything Canadian miles right so you still don't right well no I'm not I asked him I said hey do you have a thing he goes yeah I have my studio here and he has his phone and that's that's it well look I I in my particular life you know I still have I have four kids and I have two younger ones you know yeah I'm on the road what was it 220 days last year yeah um when I'm home I'm home I'm not no I tried to have a room in my house once but then there was everything broke every day and I had people there all of a sudden it wasn't my house anymore all right and I'm I understand I can speak engineer I can talk I know frequencies I know limiters I know what to ask for I can in the analog days I would be one of a pair of hands on there before there was uh what do you call it uh flying faders yeah all that stuff with automation you know but I mean I record ideas at home do you think that because you started when people recorded on tape you couldn't just go into Studios unless you uh you had a record deal or I mean you know I went into recordings when I was like 12 years old but you know because one of the kids in school's father was an engineer on a Sunday afternoon they brought us a little three-piece we were like you know seventh grade it was you know [ __ ] around you know trying to write songs it was fun it was a little I don't even I don't have a copy of it somewhere it exists my voice hadn't even changed yet it was pretty funny just trying to make her so I got into a recording studio and I saw and when I was in it and I saw this stuff that I didn't really know what a recording studio looked like because the back in the day they didn't have you did pictures of it that's right these are you this studio name was like some magical place where like if you go there you can sound like the Rolling Stones right like if I use this guitar I'll have the exact same guitar as also saying it's like the I used to think that it was the guitar that made the sound and it's not right I played Jeff Beck's guitar I don't sound like Jeff and Eddie played my guitar and he sounded just like Eddie and I played his and I sound like me so a great instrument is a great tool but there's no magic amp magic instrument there's only what you bring to it I remember a great story Larry Carlton told me we were on on the road and he goes he goes yeah some cat came up to me goes man that 335 sounds great and he goes yeah he takes it on puts it puts it on the stand and walks back stands next to the guy points it he goes how about now what Lily Larry only Larry but you know he's right I mean you know I I a great guitar is great and and that's it's like having a great wife or girlfriend she's beautiful to you maybe not beautiful to everybody or maybe she is beautiful for everybody or whatever you know what I'm saying it's it's taste musical taste same thing I mean Strat music man tally Les Paul 335 whatever it's all in the fingers you know like I said you know it's it's Personal Touch it's like your vibrato is your thumb print you a lie okay so I want to get you to play on a track I prepared a backing track for you to play and I asked him yesterday I was like Hey I want you to play on something just one thing here at the end of the video I believe I said no and you said no no I said I said do you have anything to play over some backing travel or something for this game and you said you said I have a backing track I was like I can't bring package I don't do that I don't do clinics and so I don't know how to do this [ __ ] I'm just an old school guy okay just so I can hear you play over track okay so are we ready to do it partially how do we do this I don't know where where the thing starts I think [Music] thank you [Music] Luke thank you so much it's been so great having you I know we did it I knew we did this before that's what I want to say I want to say thank you man I mean there's so many brilliant musicians out there and you're getting all of them and I like the fact that you do other things besides guitar too because I think there's a lot to be learned from like say when you did this great interview with Greg Bissonnet from a guitar place never you hear from a drummer's standpoint you're getting answers to things that you would never ask yourself oh okay so that that helps a little bit yeah I mean no guitar players out there learned [ __ ] for me today but I mean it's just my point of view it's not true you know that's not true sorry I didn't play my old licks perfectly but I don't sit around and learn them oh don't be don't be so hard on the old guy it's been an honor to be here with you man I'm a big fan of yours and thank you very much for everything you do for the guitar community and especially me you've been really kind to me brother thank you my pleasure man absolutely thank you for all the music all you guys out there in video land you know oh yeah I did let my hair no I don't dying my hair anymore in case you're wondering if I just grew old overnight no this is the real deal peace and love everybody have a wonderful 2023 hope to see you out there thanks Rick piotto

Channel: Rick Beato

Views: 2,206,600

Keywords: rick beato, everything music, rick, beato, music, music theory, music production, education, steve lukather, toto africa, steve lukather interview, toto interview, michael jackson, steve lukather toto, toto guitarist steve lukather, rosanna solo, boz scaggs

Id: 4nBbzajS29o

Length: 81min 57sec (4917 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 17 2023