The shocking O.J. evidence nobody saw

the first time you met you knocked on the door of Ko's Bungalow this is hours after the murder after you came from the crime scene on Bundy you knew Nicole was dead there was another victim you didn't know who did it you go to OJ's house this is the first person you that you see did you have to consider that he could be a suspect when you knocked on that door hi everybody Welcome to one degree of scandalist I'm Tom zener my co-host K kin right over here across the table and are we lucky today ladies and gentlemen we have the one and only the most legendary LAPD Detective who's been in the middle of the biggest cases in La history including of course the OJ Simpson Saga which we're going to get into today this is his first chance to really talk about you know a lot about the ojk since OJ died last week so Tom thank you so much for joining us it's great to have you here awesome and in studio so thank you for doing that and you know let me get right into it because you know you two go way back 30 years which is fascinating the first time you met you knocked on the door of Ko's Bungalow this is hours after the murder after you came from the crime scene on Bundy you knew Nicole was dead there was another victim you didn't know who did it you go to OJ's house this is the first person you that you see did you have to consider that he could be a suspect when you knocked on that door sure when you uh under these types of situations you're like two miles away from where this happened as the crow flies and you don't know what you have we went to the front door there's a light on uh but we nobody's answering we got a couple of cars in the driveway something's going on somebody's in there but nobody's answering so in my mind after leaving a crime scene with two victims bloody victims OJ Simpson lives here there's talk that this is his estranged wife is he inside in the same type of condition is he alive or dead because nobody's responding to the front door we've got a pH line that goes into the house nobody's picking up the phone so we're we're saying hey we got a problem here M that's where the big contest came in about should they go over the fence should they go over the wall no we could have gone to breakfast no of course not there's a possibility you've got another victim inside the house and it might be OJ Simpson so we had to get in there so we went over the wall through the gate front door nobody's answering so we go around the back obviously and we see I believe like three Bungalows and so we started knocking on doors and uh the first uh first one I believe was KO and Simpson's daughter Arnell was in another one so we'd uh Ferman I think knocked on Ko's door first yeah and I knocked on arnell's and they both came came out about the same time Arnell they came out first yeah I I all I remember in being it's sort of a haze and I hear I'm the phone is not part of his phone is not connected but I can hear through a wall I kept thinking Am I Dreaming I hear this you guys must have kept calling and calling and ringing I'm going is this part of a dream and then there's knocks at my door and when I did open it first I was in a haze I mean you saw me when I I have no idea what's going on I didn't even ask who you guys were there was four four and I remember four and I said come on in and it was uh Phil veter yourself uh detective Phillips remember that name yeah and Ferman and uh you you all came in my room and um uh he Ferman had asked me what what did you wear last night before anything else I what did you wear last I showed him my clothes were hanging in a chair he goes where are your shoes and I think you were in there you guys looked at the bottom of my shoes and then you they took a a flashlight right and I think you what do you call the test that you that was for a nice sagus test to see if your eyeballs you jump a little bit in other words to see if you have any influence of Narcotics or something and this is 4:30 or 5 in the morning the last thing 5 5:30 you know I got to start yeah double you know asking question but that was we didn't need to do that right because this is like 5 as fact it's 5:10 in the morning you are obviously half asleep I don't know why Ferman did that quite frankly but he did so that's I did pass that test right yeah you made it you passed that one I don't know about the others that followed you got that one he knows a guilty man when he sees one you looked innocent K I was I was it was 5 in the morning or so so my eyes are probably red hey thank you everybody for joining us uh this is going to be a fascinating hour um Tom's going to be sharing so much about evidence the evidence that he and his Partners uncovered for this trial for this case that was never used and you're going to hear the backstory of why you're going to hear details about it including what OJ was dumping in the airport um what happened when Tom and his team disassembled the Bronco I mean there's just so many fascinating things we're going to get here so if you like the show make sure you subscribe give us a like right here and uh it's going to be a fascinating episode so buckle up and and Tom we'll get back into it because you know all this stuff is fresh little did you know that both of your are changed instantly you were already a very famous detective at that point because of the past cases that you were involved in but was the was the scene at Bundy about as horrific as you've seen as a detective at that point as a detective uh yeah it was uh when andm you have a knife attack there's a lot of blood obviously and when there's more than one victim but Nicole uh was nearly decapitated so shows some a little more than this is this isn't just a robbery or narcotics deal gone wrong this is a lot more to do with something that's very personal yeah and so that's that's what strikes you first and then the number of wounds uh the defensive wounds on both we knew there was a struggle that was very obvious and the whole scene I could it l very involved but it probably could have been over in 15 or 20 seconds KO did you ask them did you know there was was a murder did you know Nicole was dead at this point no I I knew nothing uh they of of course they didn't tell me anything and um then at one point uh uh uh Tom said to me uh you and Arnell go into the main house and they I followed all the detectives into the main house and the main house we sat on a couch we still didn't know anything going on crazy we didn't know if Simpson might have been in there as a victim like I said earlier and this is where Arnell initially told us he thought that he was in the house uh I said where's your dad and he she said something effect well is in the house isn't he at that point I think we we might have a problem and the back door was locked and so I said do you have a key he says sure I've got a key so she went and got the key and she sticks the key in and she's open the door I said step back let us go in first because I didn't know what we were going to find mhm and we went in and we checked the maid's area cuz the maid was supposed to be there she took the night off she wasn't in there room was all made up and there was no evidence of anything else and that's when we found out that through KO that he' taken off to Chicago Chicago which is unbelievable now as a detective does that change your thoughts at all like oh he had nothing to do with this I mean without knowing the timeline at that point what goes through your mind as a seasoned Detective When you find out he's in Chicago these murders happened about six hours ago six or seven hours ago yeah that's fine but again you don't know until you ask you talk to the people and then you go back and you talk to them again most cases is when you have a a witness Who's involved you don't have one or two interviews you might go back for a dozen interviews to see if things make sense more or less and to see if they cooperate what they've said earlier many times if you have a witness who's not being entirely truthful with you they'll uh they'll change their story they'll add a little bit to it they'll take a little bit out you're looking for consistency so you're going to go back and talk to these people several times over K these aren't Mall cops I mean had to be intimidating as hell right just cuz these are forceful individuals serious business and they just came from a crime scene with two horrible murder victims right and man you had to be freaking out well I I I didn't know what was going on so as far as far as freaking out I knew something was seriously wrong I did had no idea there was murder involved I knew nothing about uh Nicole because you were at the Rockingham so I just I just I we just sat on a couch and you were doing your I I think your interviews and looking at things and I we're going to get right back to this but the thing that I was telling Tom last week you know so many things come into your mind I'm sure they do that gets refresh again because you bring it up and you when you bring it up you go oh yeah that's right I mean the the fact of uh coming in the eye test and then I just remember after um you had uh uh escorted me out someone had escorted me out I just REM it it's one of these nightmares there it's a thought that I think about probably every other day said watch your feet when you walk walk out for watch out for the blood stains and I just looked down and he had one of those the flooring that had those little uh wooden pegs but between the pegs there were blood droplets and then I I just went you know you sort of get that spine the tingling up your spine when you're walking out but I'll never forget that when I walked out and so I looked around and I saw I watched my step and then I was escorted out by a um Street policeman where' you think the blood was I at that point I thought that was probably OJ's blood why cuz that was his house it was in inside his house what's interesting about the blood he's talking about when the sun came up is more evident that there were blood blood tails and the tail of the blood is in the front is when a blood droplet strikes the surface it splatters forward and it elongates so the tail is towards the direction that person the uh where the blood is coming from is walking and so they all the bled tailed from the rear of the Bronco through the Rockingham gate up the driveway and tailed right into the house so whoever left that blood was walking from the Bronco up the up the walk walkway up the driveway and into the house and it was the the only part I saw was in the kitchen so continued you're saying from the kitchen right into the house in fact later we even been found some upstairs in the uh in the bathroom it's it's mindboggling how your mind works as a seasoned detective and how you're five steps ahead and you're looking at things on the ground that no one would notice you take the lead lead detective in this case how do you even prioritize what you do next was your first thought we got to get Simpson back here we got to get him out of Chicago we got to get a hold of him and and and get him to fly back here at ASAP was that your job uh yeah well actually we called him uh when Kato mentioned they were inside with Arnell we called from the from the phone and I got him on the phone I think Phillips called called him first and told him that his uh his wife had passed on he didn't say how or anything else and uh he said we you need to get back here he called the house after that and I answered it and spoke with him he didn't ask about the kids which surprised me uh he didn't say anything more about any details other than he's got the next plane coming in roughly when he would be there he's got a lift from the airport he'll come to the home this type of thing he was not a suspect but we obviously you don't look for suspects you look for information uh something will come something will break but you need to speak to the people in the middle of all of this once we found out that he was there the night before from KO principally uh there was the possibility that he was around during the time of the murders so I obviously we want to speak to him and the sooner the better and again why wouldn't you ask about your kids right you know I I have a question about this just because of the way you're telling me this isn't that first phone call the first phone call you do to OJ isn't that like the most important phone call and you guys can't tape it correct it just has to go on wording because how important would that have been been as evidence of taping it that he didn't ask about the kids that's correct now put yourself in that position if someone calls you in the middle of the night and tells you that your spouse has been been killed and what are you going to think you got two kids at home okay right and they're supposed to be asleep what's your first thought I've got kids and grandkids I know what my first thought is where are the kids exactly where are they are they okay I mean that was just blew us away and that was the first thing we looking at each other said sometimes you don't have to explain thing just a glance will tell you something's not right here yeah and the red flags started at that moment and then it could have been a car accident right yeah and then were the kids in the car I mean that is and to think that he knew the kids lived with her and were in the house and that they could see that in the morning depending on when they woke up and went outside or whatever I just again that doesn't make him a suspect at the time but you remember these things and then you get him back so then it's Monday right he flies back and the circus has already started media everywhere where did you meet him where did you talk to him first well he came back to the house uh directly back to the house with a couple of people that he knew uh a lawyer from friend Kardashian was with them and uh they came back to the house and Phil was there now I had left and gone back to Bundy to handle that crime scene investigation once the blood was found in Rockingham we had to get a warrant can't just go in uh you have to get a warrant and so Phil went to get the warrant check in with the District Attorney's office and I would handle a crime scene at Bundy and meanwhile we removed everybody from Rockingham we didn't want anybody in in there because it was essentially an extension of the crime scene yeah and K how about the rest of the day for you well I I went to the police station uh I think it was Santa Monica and I stayed there for at it had to be at least eight hours and I just I sat and I I think it's probably was an interrogation Room everybody was really nice to me but I sat there and then they took a break i' go to the bathroom and then they offered me lunch and it was I still in nothing I was in limbo basically with a I had no idea what's going on and um uh I know that uh the one thing I do remember it's probably very powerful impact on you is that you didn't want the media to know before anybody else so you had to make the phone call to the Brown family and that's when I knew that Nicole was had been murdered I overheard it I made the call actually from Rockingham before I left and because of the media we knew that the media was going to be all over this let's face it they have more resources than we do they have more people they can move around a lot quicker they don't need to search warant they're going to do what they're going to do and it didn't take long for them to do that I just Greatful that I did get a hold of them but I've made death notifications before and you don't want to do that sometimes you got to do something that you really don't want to if I had not done that it would just made the whole situation much more worse well that's got to be one of the worst parts of your job and then when you mentioned the media think about it this is La you've got seven TV stations that do news you've got newspapers and then you got bureaus for all the big networks and then you got hard copy you got all those those shows like that and everybody's immediately on this and it's just a a frenzy you know this is what K and I do every week so if you're new to the channel you're new to the show it's one degree of scandalist we have great guests every single week like Tom Lang today which is fascinating so give us a like and make sure you subscribe because you want to get this content every single week and and and we're going to be talking about some evidence that a lot of people don't know about including a knife that OJ purchased about three weeks before the murder and a disguise that he purchased 3 weeks before the murder that they found receipts on so we're going to get into all of that today on this show yeah I I wanted to ask one question about because Tomy mentioned how the media how how fast they can come uh and be at a scene is is it like the movies Tom where there is a uh a radio call and someone at home has a police radio they can find out they can they can hear murder at Bundy and they give the address is that how and people can that's it right yeah plus it's on a uh you know a special frequency that just internally that you talk to other people let's face it they have folks out there too and the the media as any reporter will tell you that uh many times their stories depend on informance of some type or another but they know what's going on they have ears they have eyes and they got money to spend and and people to spend it on and many times they know a lot more than we do because I couldn't tell you where they Browns lived they could yeah they have access to the resources Meanwhile we're in the field trying to keep a lid on things you don't want evidence that you have like at a murder scene exposed because it could affect your case one way or the other you're trying to protect that evidence and then another thing that affects you is the fact that there's so much competition in the media that one erroneous story gets out everybody runs with it that then becomes fact almost or that's then takes on a life of its own which people believe so you're you're battling that as well and that happened here unbelievably hard job for you and especially when you consider that Mara Clark didn't really as smart as she was you've told us that she's a smart attorney she's a smart competent prosecutor but man she treated you like you could only hurt her case LAPD right I mean you did you feel you were fighting a battle from the get-go not from the get-go but over a period of time he realized once we got into trial that we were actually on trial in a lot of respects mhm I mentioned this another time mentioned several times I was on the stand for eight days I had more problems with Mar's direct than Johnny krin's cross it's as simple as that uh for reasons that we could get into uh I figured out why what's going on here didn't take long that they didn't want Cops on the stand introducing evidence because this jury was not pro police Pro LAPD this is after the Rodney King riots the whole riding King thing was like 2 years old and this was it what this jury was more interested in than someone on trial for murder so we essentially were on trial and she didn't really do a whole lot about that yeah you're handcuffed you're handcuffed I mean basically some respects because there was only two people that got a gag order on this entire case me and my partner everybody else the defense three times a day they'd be in front of the Medias attacking evidence before it had been produced in court uh the the prosecution could say what they wanted but the two cops we were gagged you know both of you guys are from Milwaukee which is unbelievable coincidence and K think about this because I'm going to ask Tom this question and you can think about what might be uh your number one choice here but you know it's all about Evans Tom and and you spent the better part of what 5 six months Gathering evidence and maybe even during the trial you were still getting evidence so much of it wasn't used is there one piece now to me I will say the cut finger for OJ you come back from Chicago without a real story or an Alabama for that cut and it's still bleeding I think you've said in the past that to me is the number one thing when you saw that cut what were you thinking well in back of my mind he's got to be a possible suspect I mean it's still bleeding you go back this was when we interviewed him it was about 13 hours after the murders that occurred we feel that it probably went down about 12:35 or so I'm sorry 10:35 or so at night and so this is early the next afternoon still bleeding he doesn't even have a Band-Aid on it you want to make a record of that on the tape that we're we're doing so I mentioned something I said I see your fingers bleeding maybe we get a Band-Aid for that or something and he just said no that's okay it's fine so we're looking at each other and you know maybe he's moved up a notch as a possible suspect but you can't jump to jump to conclusions here before you got the full story and in that short interview and it was a short interview for a reason there were like a doz and inconsistencies in that short interview three different stories during that 32 minutes about how he cut his finger um and so we're going have to look a little closer at that 32 was his number are you just saying that because of that no it's 3 might have been 33 I'm going to say 32 I like that this is Hollywood Hollywood go stop but but here here's a immediately I become a detective when when Tom talks I'm thinking there's a cut in his finger no one ever said if the Gloves did it have a slit in that that finger did the glove actually have a cut hole in it okay good question yeah there two gloves right hand left hand correct okay left hand here the right hand glove is at is at Rockingham left hand glove is at the scene it did have some but you can't line up the the actual I know what you're getting at yeah there were some Cuts but they wouldn't match up with the the hand that having been said we believe that he lost the glove during a struggle MH and the glove where it was found the left glove was found at the scene along with the other evidence right in the middle of the two bodies so we think the glove obviously uh went off before before the cut because the other glove the Rockingham of course had blood of both victims and him and but this one did not you couldn't say that cut was went through the glove because the glove was off already and that's a great question because there had to be a struggle I mean Ron Goldman was a big guy who was trained in martial arts right I mean he came about this and saw something happening and obviously the afterm of whatever happened to Nicole and there obviously was a struggle right you can tell by the blood and everything well that and the the wounds the defensive wounds and both of the victims and uh Ron Goldman's hands were all bruised up so he went at it uh pretty good but again we've had reenactments of this and the whole thing probably didn't last 20 seconds uh but he was slight he had four fatal wounds uh that's Goldman and and Nicole of course uh her throat was slashed and nearly she was nearly decapitated after she was struck in the rear of the head you know you and I have discussed this too Tom off off camera the fact that OJ was a Voyer right Nicole used to live at Greta green where KO lived with her and neighbors would report that OJ would show up and look in the window he did that with a mask on so you knew that about him what's your hunch do you think that he went there that night to kill Nicole I don't know that he went there that particular night but again we knew that for months he'd been been following her there was a a couple of people who said we also think that Nicole was aware of that that she'd been followed when she was driving uh this is a June night he's got wearing leather gloves and a and a a knit cap uh it's not like it was 40° out it was a warm evening fairly warm evening um why would you be there to begin with especially when you were leaving town that night now that may have had something to do that maybe thought it through I don't know I think he was probably ticked off um when Ron Goldman showed up that's when we heard a witness who was across the street he heard someone who he later said he thought it was OJ yelling hey hey hey or something to that effect and the clanging of a gate which was where the struggle occurred um I I can't say that he went there intentionally do it because uh I don't think he expected Goldman to be there but I think that might have might have teed him off Well he kind of kind of wrote that book if I did it he gives his description of how he did it yeah I mean it's a you know he's saying in that book of uh and and maybe that's you know being a detective you probably looked at that and said well these are well yeah I mean with him it's just pure arrogance I mean he is a sociopath no doubt I'm not a psychologist but I've dealt with sociopaths I can tell you what one is in American public there's like 4 and a half million social social uh so people who who have those types of problems in this country they're all serial killers okay there's a lot of politicians who happen to be sociopathic right a lot of other people with big names are and some of them can most of them can control it but here you can look outside now and say it's dark you know it's no it's not it's very bright Sun sunny day today that's what a sociopath they be in total denial and right ey I say no well he certainly had an affinity for knives right if he didn't go there to kill her that night he had a knife in the car in the Bronco uh he was on the board of directors of a major Knife Company and then Swiss Army SS was it Swiss Army and then what he was in a limo one time you were telling me this story this is just three days before the murders he's back in Connecticut he's on a board of this uh this I'm trying to think of the name of the company K thinks it was Swiss Army it was either that one or they handled Swiss Army knives but it wasn't the uh oh it was the I I don't he was in the board of like 12 companies they all got droing I remember certain ones like money baked ham and uh but I don't know the Knife Company this one I I don't escapes me it's in the book but anyway uh he was back there this three days before at the board of directors he had a they played golf of course and he had a limo pick them up and take him to the airport after the the conference was over and on the way to the airport they gave him a bag full of knives and WR watches and he was in the back of the limo and the limo driver is talking with him back and forth and he's looking at the rearview mirror not the from the back and Simpson is going through the bags and he pulls out a long bladed knife and he's looking at it said shouldn't I admiring it like this and the limo driver sees this through the mirror and Simpson says something to the effect that uh well this is really sure they really kill somebody this type of thing and the limo driver is picking up on this and then he says you know would you like one of these knives cuz they have a whole bunch of them there and he says no I just don't have a wristwatch so Simpson gave him a wristwatch we get this story when he calls in and any high-profile case you're going to have a lot of BS okay a lot of people calling in I saw this did it's all nonsense doesn't mean you you can't go you have to go through every one of these things so I sent one of our detectives back to Connecticut to interview this guy and not only to interview the the LMO dver not just to interview him but to give him a polygraph and he did and this guy passed with flying colors so would you want to have that guy as a witness I think I would now this doesn't say this isn't direct any kind of direct evidence that that he's a murderer but I mean these things build and in this case there are literally dozens of these little circumstantial incidents that occurred that add up you never have too much evidence in a murder case you want to put all this stuff on but this is stuff that the cops did and you don't want the cops to look too good Mr Mr and Miss prosecution you don't want that to happen because you're not going to get your verdict and if you want to play that game the prosecution you don't want to put the cops on to put evidence on tell the cops that so they know what's going on right that was one of your beefs right that they never kept you in the loop it might have been the smart way to go well go the DNA only listen there's plenty of DNA and blood and everything else for anybody to get convicted of that case you again you never have too much evidence so you don't deliberately keep Hold It Back if that's your if that's your strategy good share it with your investigators we now work for you also uh you guys were aware that I think he just did a pilot uh Navy Seals yeah where I you did you guys have to investigate on set or anything and and forms of knives on that show and we did all that we we did all those types of things but frankly that was not one of the top things into consideration I can understand not putting that on it's a little maybe a little too much Hollywood Glitz right they trying to overdo it remember this is a televised thing which was another mistake but it's a lot of coincidences coincidences that add up to a lot of circumstan it makes makes the job tougher too because it's like oh we can't really go into this thing now because we got to look at the blood or we got to look at this other uh interview of someone that saw the Bronco at this hour and you got to you got to check every your your day must maybe you don't sleep from that time you you must had hour that were I I imagine at least 16 hour days yeah it was the last part of the deal if you don't want it then you do something else right and then the drive back to seei Valley well it's probably you needed get your mind off things get out of get out of La clear your head for a little bit this case though I know it's got a lot of publicity and everything else isn't in the top 10 as far as difficulty as far as time spent okay because there was nothing exculpatory in this case most murder cases have something exculpatory something that says well maybe he didn't do it because you get this in yeah it's very rare everything was inculpatory in this case toward Simpson by the way that's a great little plug for the new book that you're finishing up called the Dirty business of murder where you're going to get into multiple serial killer cases the Wonderland murders that you were involved in directly I mean Tom's career is one of one it's un I have so much respect for you Tom and and just the way you've just handled yourself in the media all these years all the um documentaries you're on you're so entertaining you have amazing recall and just this stability and you know just sense of order about you that's comforting and you know it's it's amazing and then and then just being able to share these stories again so we really appreciate you being here you know K you mentioned uh Swiss Army they also make watches so it might have been them right yeah I think so I don't I think it was but whatever then we can check that out you know Tom also wrote evidence dismissed and the biggest part of the trial was all these things that were dismissed that could have been slam dunks I'm sure and I imagine that you have to go you went into Marshall Clark and just said look at what we have and your reaction when she goes we're not going to use it we're not going to use it we're not going to use it you're pissed off aren't you I am but you don't want to get pissed off in a high-profile case with your prosecutor and vice versa um if she'd have shared a few things with us perhaps it wouldn't have been as bad but it's not just that she didn't use these things she lied about one in particular which was the that fell at the airport that was cooperated when we did a a show together a couple years ago right with Alan Park limbo driver we saw the same things that this witness saw at the airport and that is OJ standing right next to a trash container with a little Half Moon shaped travel bag that you're familiar with right that you went to grab on the driveway when he was going to the airport and he didn't want you anywhere near it and he grabbed it well fast forward 30 minutes ahead to LAX American Airlines that little bag is on the top of a trash container he's reaching in Simpson is reaching into the bag taking items out and stuffing them into this trash container not only did this witness tell me that 6 months after the trial began but Alan Park tells me he saw the guy and he saw Simpson standing by the trash container during the show that we did and I said did you tell this to Marsha and he says yeah I told her all about it well when I asked Marsha back at the time of the trial she denied it she says we've got nobody to cooporate what he says that was a flat flat lie right you can't do that to investigate that's what pissed you off the most that because then the cat was out of the bag that she's not communicating with you she's got her own agenda what's fascinating is that I I went to I was closest to this thing I'll get it for you and he said no no don't get it and that is the bag that someone we don't know we haven't seen well the knife never showed up so if he was that adamant about dumping something well this is nine months later we find out about this and of course there's three pickups to two common landfills in La goes from LAX there's nothing we can do to find this that bag never shows up we went all the way back to Chicago to the hotel and searched for that bag the bag never showed up again well you tell me it was in the bag we haven't found the knife we haven't found the shoes haven't found the clothing yeah who was in the bag that one's unbelievable and and and think about it he thinks he can probably out talk or outsmart anybody but there's a lot of quick decisions you have to make as a murderer and a lot of them are pretty bad I would imagine he had to get rid of that weapon the obvious mistakes are what we' discussing mhm they always screw up he just got to find out how and then you have to find out what isn't try to cooperate it and that's what was done in this case and again everything is inculpatory it all goes with even the shoe size and we don't have the shoes but we know what size he wore cuz he told me and you took the Rebox out of his house he had the shoes that he said he was wearing the night of the murder he lied mhm were size 12 that's what we have at the scene 12 bloody Footwear Impressions from the uh the Bruno mes and that's why I took them to begin with they weren't the shoes he was wearing but he just if if if those were size 10 that's exculpatory evidence that if I'm on the jury that's good enough for me to say I don't think you did it we had none of that none of that and the DH is was well aware of that and none of that stuff was put on because the cops did it and the cops are on trial simple as that yeah speaking of cops on trial do you in your daily uh uh work day do you did you see vaneta Ferman and Phillips all the time because I was going to bring up Mark Ferman did you have contact with him and did you know that he was going to plead the fifth and did you know that Johnny Cochran was going to go with that race card we suspicioned that now the Ferman thing I was in trial I was in in the tri every single day and I was there in Ferman we were on firman side we backed him up initially just before he went on the stand I said said Mark I'm going to be in the first row when they start screwing with you I want you to look at me and know that we're behind you we're backing you upow well that turned around once he opened his mouth it was one of these you know it's them uh oh that really flipped us off and then when you get right down to it uh and he's asked did you at this case or any other case ever plan evidence in a murder case and you plead the fifth game's over I don't care what you talk about evidence if you're in that jury you can't convict because he may have done that who knows he did not plant evidence Phil Vader did not plant blood evidence as uh Alan dtz to this day says and no one ever confronts Alan dtz with his lies there's never been any evidence that any blood was planted by either Ferman van Adder me or anybody else if there were you'd have seen that by house 30 years ago he would have been in admitted into evidence by the defense that never ever happened yet to this day he lies about this for whatever reason and nobody ever confronts him including last week when he was on Fox commenting about OJ's death which is got to really G you let's go back to the timeline after the murder so what day was it where he was considered a suspect was that Wednesday well I can't give you a day it's just these things have a tendency to build but you you can't wrap yourself up and and you know sure tunnel vision you can't do that you got to wait till everything is in but you document things thoroughly and you don't start making suppositions a lot of investigators young ones especially rely on supposition well one and one is two because two and two is four so this no you got to prove what you're saying before you can even talk about it you document everything and eventually you're going to have time to sit down and look what you have so you once you thoroughly document then you make your decisions what's exculpatory any investigator and case the first thing they want to do is look for exculpatory evidence once you know what your problem is you can it's going to help you solve this case and put it together you going know what the problems are and you're going to deal with those problems we kept looking here here there's nothing exculpatory of a substance of nature so what I'm I'm just trying to lead up to Friday the 17th the day of the chase yeah it was what point was he considered a suspect was it the night before because he had made the agreement to to turn himself in the next morning to Parker Center uh on that Friday morning and he didn't show up well we had a warrant for his arrest and Phil and I is what we like to do is we go out we don't want the media around obviously the brass head has different considerations okay uh we work for somebody we have to do as we're told so they wanted them to show up we didn't want to do that we wanted to just drive out to Kardashian's house pick him up no fuss no mess no problems no 12 helicopters following you around or anything else bring them in book them it's all over no somebody's got to have a show and so you saw what happened when somebody had to have a show we ended up on the freeway for a couple hours that was the problem when you work with a bureaucracy you're going to deal with that you don't have a choice was that was the day was that the day the suicide not that was read was that the chase day or was that yeah no it was the no it was the day it was Friday the 17 just before the chase was revealed so no one knew yet the note was read then the he was uh uh I I what was the Ed fug he is now a fugitive of the law when Gil Garcetti said that so no actually I think chief of police did okay and then and then the chase starts from Orange County and they pick him up yeah uh Tom and then obviously that was you know you were front and center for that thing talk about how you communicated with him how did you get a hold of him why were did you volunteer to do that well uh it's kind of what we did I mean somebody's got to make a decision what happened was was that we knew he he'd split okay we're in our Squad Bay with everybody and up in the corner there's a television set and we're thinking about where could he have gone once we found out he didn't show up he wasn't at Kardashian's house I sent a couple of Black and Whites to Kardashian's house in the Cino to search the house and see what was going on that's how we found out what was going on there and they just said yeah he just took off what they see we don't know where he went he didn't see or anything else so we're trying to find out where is sooner or later somebody's going to see him I figure that and all of a sudden somebody yells he said hey it's OJ is on the TV as I look up and there's a Bronco going on the freeway and I'm looking I said oh God this is going to be a mess right in the middle of a people looking at me there thinking uh well somebody's got to make a decision about something to do well nobody's going to do that when it's your case they don't anything to do with this because everybody's watching this stuff so I'm waiting for the chief to come over Chief eventually a couple the chief show up down there and nobody is doing anything well I'm not that type of a person I've never been that type of a person I'm going to do something I learned this in Vietnam under some very bad circumstances you make a decision or you're not going to walk out of here I made a decision I'm going to get a hold of him we just happened to have his phone number we had uh a lady at the uh in the office who had all the phone numbers um Patty fear branks Patty called her up she said yeah here's the number he's got a mobile number so I'm thinking well at least I'm doing so I'm going to try to call him what I'm going to tell it's tell him or say I have no idea I just need him on the phone because now he's got a gun if I can talk to him about anything he's not going to shoot himself he's not going to shoot AC he's not going to shoot at the cops if he shoots at the cops or one of those idiots that's running up to the car banging on the side we're going have more of a problem if I can entertain him talking about the gun the gun only maybe maybe we can get him home and he won't use it that was my only purpose but I said he's not going to even pick up well he picked up the rest is history uh a lot of people say that you talked about of committing suicide do you think he was serious about killing himself or do you think he was so much of a narcissist and a sociopath that it was all for show how about both the reason I said that was CU he was he hadn't slept over a day he under the influence of I think it was just grass when we did we did some testing he just he was under the influence and and you could tell them his moaning and this and then the other that wasn't an act he's very tired I don't think he knew what he wanted to do we find out later he went down in Ni Cole's grave with AC AC thought he was going to kill himself but he then came back and then they decided to go I don't think Simpson knew what he wanted to do at the time quite frankly would he done this I don't know K were you watching the chase yeah I was watching the uh chase at um few of my buddies uh place and um I I was amazed myself that there was just line lineup of people with the signs up uh you know juice on the loose and and just how my feelings were like there I think this is the wrong thing I didn't know anything that's going on yet but I got out of the house IM pretty much immediately uh after the time OJ pulled me into the kitchen area and said well you know I was in here eating with you and then I was no you weren't that was another part where I said why is he lying to me and is he trying to make me say something that's going to be in the the trial is one of the questions and it was just a I think protect him to give him an alibi then they made you a hostile witness yeah that didn't help why would you do that he's right in the middle of this and he's a hostile witness now you really have a hostile witness K's only hostile when he's commenting about the Brewers on X then you're pretty hostile or the Packers lose watch out he's hostile there listen he's from Milwaukee he he knows Milwaukee he knows Wisconsin hey by the way you're watching one degree of scandalist if you're new to the channel thank you really appreciate thank you everybody that watched the episode last week with KO and I so subscribe to the channel and and go back because Zoe tur was the videographer and helicopter pilot for CBS here in La who picked up OJ's Bronco first from OJ from Orange County so she owned that story for 20 minutes or so so we have the whole backstory of that and then another great episode to listen to is the one with Jill shivy who was driving down via uh somewhere in Brentwood she was driving barington right around 10:00 or around that time 93010 whatever it was and according to her OJ had just left the crime scene and came flying by her and almost ran her off the road that's another fascinating which she talked to at Tom and immediately knew the license plate and that and we also have Conan Nolan yeah the NBC reporter who was sitting in the back of a car filming OJ from the front the only angle that he had in a in a like a Carpenters van or something because he couldn't get a NBC van it's the stories that are just all these connections to it are just amazing but the Jill shivy story still amazes me and um we talked she's obviously very legitimate and she was just another witness they never used uh she was she sold her story hard copy I think it was I understand that it looks bad sometimes you it's the old sandwich you got to take a bite and move on and that's what it was why not put her on it's it's evidence if I thought she was lying I wouldn't have put her on she wasn't lying they the thing was she was going to the westward Home Market it was around 11:00 it closed at 11: so she was in a hurry something to get there I mean all these things fit together so her story was legitimate so you put her on we had her in studio yeah she's extremely believable she's a great person well be believable because she's not lying she's just you know telling the truth of the story and she would to enhance her story from what you told you told you guys and what she told us they're enhancing their story they're building on it yeah that maybe there's this didn't happened but she was consistent you put her on yeah when did when did frustration turn to anger for you as this thing mounted and you realize that really it was LAPD that was on trial here and it was your supposed Ally Marsha Clark that was putting you guys on trial where all this incredible evidence that you had if you stacked it up your great great quote is it could have been a 10-minute Columbo episode episode and 5 minutes of commercials probably but when did it is that just part of the job where you just got to deal with it or were you really getting ticked off well I you're ticked off but you got to keep keep things under control you don't to lose control uh when you really get ticked off is you don't know why would I disagreed if she said listen Phil Tom this is what we're going to have to do you know you guys they hate you they hate all the cops you weren't you didn't have anything to do with Rodney King but you're La cops and you're on trial you kind of know that so I'm going to have to play a couple of games here okay so I just want you to know don't take it personally and then she said I'm going to go the da the DNA the DNA in this case was enough to convict anybody 10 times over we all know that I would have said well I think you should probably put everything on because it's a murder case all the little circumstantial things there's nothing exculpatory this is all good stuff I probably would have had a problem but I would have understand her thinking when you don't tell me about it and then later you lie about it that really ticks you off but then again you have to keep under control you can't blow it how about the two of you k did the relationship develop at all or not really until after the trial and everything it passed or did you have a lot of interaction with Tom well I I interviewed with Tom I I was down there at least six times I'd say I talked to you and um I I I was pretty much open to talk to anybody there I talked to marshia Clark over and over I went down to that office office and the part of it I know people understand I never I I said to the shows before I've never been in a courtroom in my life I never had ticket nothing so I didn't know when they give you sort of a a review of what they're going to ask you sure and uh I would follow her and I was I was on her team I was a her witness I was a prosecu witness so I was thrown sort of a curve and I had that as everybody knows the deer and the headlight looks because I didn't remember things I go that wasn't part of the review so if I'm on that you don't realize that it's a camera I mean it's catching you but you're made me look like a fool so uh but I was there I was I was trying to remember and that's why I took my time and answering anything to make sure that I was answering correctly one of the low lights to the trial was when they declared you a hostile witness that was ridiculous explain it to everybody else though I still yeah now he's my witness I called him at all but I don't believe anything he's going to say okay you got a lot of air time for that yeah the H witness that she did she did it like on day six I five or six let's put it like this I wouldn't be here today talking to you and Tom if I didn't have some respect for you and the way you handled yourself you did not do a bad job you did not you did a very normal job that would be expected if you did anything other than what you did then there's something wrong but you did not screw this up she screwed it up by initially saying you're some kind of a hostile witness and right away if he's hostile that me say we can't believe anything he says I say shame on anybody that tries to judge either of you with the immense pressure that you were under testifying for eight days testifying for the better part of week and just you know knowing them you know taking it from both sides right you expect it from the defense no but when the prosecution isn't really in your your friend that that just makes it a 100 times worse well you don't have to be friends here you just have to use a little common sense and we were now we worked for the da now we are her Witnesses and her investigators and then when all this is over and the books start to come out she starts badmouthing us about the interview calling it an interrogation all sou crap which it was not uh and all these negative things in defense of herself in defense of her own nonsense you know Tom's had a good second career just dealing with the evidence that wasn't used TV shows books bestseller evidence dismissed you could still get that order that book it's a great book he's working on a new one that ties in man so many stories from these famous serial killer cases and just all sorts of murders domestic violence you name it it's in there um I just find it so fascinating that you know LAPD is huge what there's 70,000 cops or there used to be about 6,800 when I was out they went up to 10,000 10,000 okay I got my number off a little bit I move the comma okay but there's a lot how does somebody get to the level that you are that you know at the peak of your career where you were so good and you were in the middle of all these cases Hillside Strangler nightstalker Wonderland murders OJ well the hillside I didn't work but I my unit did we were part we have it's not just me we've got you know 16 guys working D gals working all of these cases most of them with other agencies the LA sheriffs and guardian other places too the way you get there it's like anything like what you do uh you're probably pretty good at what you do because you like what you do you want to do what you do in life if you like something you really like it you're going to want to want to be good at it you're going to be damn good at it so I started going to crime scenes working ju in in Central Downtown because we worked at night we would roll on the murder cases and so I would go and ask a lot of questions I've seen a lot of death before I came out the police department in the braine Corp I get into any of that right now I don't have to but it always fascinated me how does this happen why does this happen and it's a challenge it's the challenge and the other thing is if you work in homicide most people don't want anything to do with it because they don't know anything about it they don't want to know anything about it they don't want any part of it leave me alone just to do my job you can't be that way you can't be a bread and butter cop 9 to5 you're going to work long hours and you got to care about what you do more importantly than care you got to respect what you do if you don't respect what you do you're going to suck at it you got to really want to do it and you're going to like it and you're going to be good at it yeah and for both of you the support of your family had to help a lot to you bring that home you know when you go home my wife been through a whole lot more than I have you know my wife of course she a whole lot more right and the hours that you keep a question for you Tom you're retired now but when you see when you watch TV and you see I'll give an example the uh Idaho the college murders of this I think his name is Brian Colberg is a is a supposedly uh up for trial as possibly the the number one suspect do you form an opinion or do you would if you thought of something would they would you make the call do they take your call are you familiar with that case yeah yeah yeah and so I mean opinions of that do you ever get involved from you know sort of our you know armchair quarterback when you're seeing what's going on well do you go have you guys checked this out have you guys done this I'm curious like anybody else would be right but I know the setup and I know how they did it and that particular case really doesn't have anybody else they're even looking at and again when all else fails you go to the evidence the fact that he fled in the evidence that I've seen that tells me he's probably the suspect but I would like to see everything because hopefully the prosecution in that case has held back some things they've had to turn it over per Discovery to the defense obviously but you don't want to throw everything out especially in a high-profile case because it'll get watered down there'll be a 100 people that'll go after it and by the time you get testimony on it's been all watered down right it's not going to help your case so I hold back on stuff until I get all the evidence but he looks to me like pretty good suspect yeah yeah that that then when that trial starts that's going to be the next big one well and also I think the hardest thing Tom would be uh both times the hardest thing has got to be that when when there's something that's fresh in the news that goes out who handles all the claws and they have these tip lines it's got to be insane that that would ruin some manh hours because you got to follow up on everything no matter and it's it it can really take away from the focus of what's you know you know I you got to follow up if someone says hey I know this guy so you follow up and you go oh we just wasted 3 hours this guy's just wanted to just talk to people well we we categorize these and I think I showed you the charts when we did the last show you were a number three by the way right it means you weren't all that important we weren't looking at not bad man that's good though that's good not to be a number one then by the way if you knew at the time you were number three you could have been a little bit more worried I always tell people that's pretty close to one be always watch out for number one but be careful not Step at number two I think you shared that with me hey you're watching one degree of scandalist with K kin and Tom zener this hour is flown by with legendary Detective Tom Lang of LAPD if you like this if you like the show like what K and Tom are bringing you today we're here every single week K and I so like the channel uh subscribe to the channel so you get the alerts when the new episodes are out every single Thursday so this is what we do um wrapping it up real quickly because I tease this two pieces of evidence he did buy a disguise right a few weeks before and then what what happened when you disassembled the Bronco when you took the white Bronco apart okay but the disguise kit yes it purchased about 3 weeks before he didn't use it why else would you purchase a disguise kit I don't know we might have seen that in court as evidence we didn't we took the Bronco apart took the console out took the doors off windshields out completely stripped the car down we Lumin all it for looking for blood uh these types of things and when they took out the passenger seat I saw a little bulb little illumination bulb rolling around out of the passenger SE seat and I think boy that looks like the little bulb that belongs up top and I looked up and the bulb was missing we find out that that little bulb belongs up there so how did it get underneath the seat when I was a young cop in Hollywood in the 60s first thing we did we got into a police car is we check see if that little bulb was up there because back then they didn't have what today what they call cut off switches if you wanted that thing you had to take the bulb out if you didn't want the to be lit up when you open the door we'd always take the bulb out what do we throw it underneath the seat so who took the bulb out turns out it was the bulb that fit up there it was a serviceable bulb now we printed it and there's no Prince what is he doing with with it underneath his seat could it be that this individual the suspect because he drove into a very dark alley and killed somebody and if he hadn't taken that bubble he would have been illuminated very circumstantial doesn't mean he's a killer but that and 15 or 20 other things begin to add up yeah and he had gloves with him so there would be no Prince on the bulb that just makes sense wrap it up K anything you know I you obviously we can go on forever and this with so many Clues I just think uh people out there should get EV evidence dismissed you work also with another writer Michael Conley Michael Conley legendary it's just uh you know obviously Tom Lang you are the real deal I'm glad to be your friend I I who would have known that 30 years later we are still here together and um still kicking still well but just that we still are in contact and I I'm I'm honored I really am I appreciate that thank you and let me add let me add too that the uh the public is still fascinated by the two of you and the story and just your ability to tell it and the fact that you own it you know that you do share it because people are fascinated and you two are the the closest witnesses to it and it's just been unbelievable compelling conversation by the way KO I owe you a personal thanks because I went out to pick up Tom today I if I could spend an hour with him in the car I'm going to do it I'm such a fan of Tom Lang and you said you're not taking your daughter's car are you my daughter has a Bronco 18-year-old daughter so I left that one at home thank you for that advice yes and thank thank you guys for ordering from Vons I appreciate that thank you for bringing the food for us and Tom thank you you're welcome here anytime especially to talk about that new book of yours and where you can get into some of the serial kill let me just leave you this everybody Tom told me that there are hundred hundreds of serial killers in the United States and Los Angeles alone like dozens and dozens in La that we don't even know about including women serial killers yeah so I mean we got to get you back in here if you want to do it again but but thank you that's all we can say thank you so much pleasure all right and I want to get that book yeah yeah order the book evidence dismissed Tom Lang's bestseller from the late 90s and his new one which will be coming out soon and we'll keep you updated on that so just follow KO and I on social media make sure you subscribe to the channel here and uh I don't know how we top this but we'll try next week thank you Tom for Tom Lang and K Kin I'm Tom zener thanks for watching one degree of scandalist with Tom zener and K kin subscribe to the channel and we will catch you next week thanks for watching

Channel: Tom Zenner Scandal

Views: 776,491

Keywords: Britney Spears, Celebrities, Celebrity, Crime Drama, Hollywood, Kardashian, Kato Kaelin, Kim Karshidan, Los Angeles, Murder, Murder Mystery, Murder Mystery 2, Mystery, Nicki Minaj, OJ, OJ Simpson, OJ Simpson Trial, Oj Simpson Car Chase, One Degree, One Degree of Scandalous, Scandal, Scandalous, True Crime, Unsolved Murder, Unsolved Mystery, oj evidence, tom lange evidence dismissed

Id: JDH_PMMVxC4

Length: 57min 32sec (3452 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 19 2024