The Sad State of Terminator 2 on Home Video (plus T1)

hello and welcome back to this downfall idealistic crusade this video will be a short video after reading a particular discussion on the bluray.com forum it brought back an old video issue to mine so i figured i'd make a video on it and that is the sad state of terminator 2 not to mention every practically every other james cameron film in his back catalog on and it's uh sorry state on home video t2 is a special case because there are you know crap tons of releases really you know dozens of releases multiple different cuts not just the theatrical and the special edition to worry about but now other home video edition cuts that tack on an extra scene or two here and there but as with most every other cameron film uh it has been subjected to a massive amount of tinkering in the years since its release multiple versions multiple new video masters and the current you know technically best available release that people will try and sell you frequently is the absolutely horrendous 4k uhd release which actually uses the uh conversion for 3d that was released in theaters and hit with a crap ton of digital noise reduction to make it look like a wax face grainless mess addition in addition with a brand new color timing and brand new audio mix which is still not the original sound design that is just compounded problems so that is without doubt i think the worst uh 4k uhd title on the market and is completely inadvisable unless you're a complete t2 fanatic or you're okay with what they did and you just want it on uhd which is understandable and they sell it for so cheap that you know i can understand people buying it but i wanted to throw this together with the uh just go over the additions i've picked up over the years to try and have every extra and compiled like the best t2 archive which you also have to do a little bit with the first film and that's why i've got multiple copies of the original terminator i myself prefer the original but t2 is still a good solid sequel it is one of the great sequels and has it was a groundbreaking film in many different ways not just the special effects but the sound design its action set pieces not to mention its budget as well which was insanely massive for the time in 1991 but there are a number of factors that i think most people are not aware of and a number of video releases i think are very important to at least know about if not owned so i wanted to go over these very quickly this is just a very rough rambling type of video where i'm going to go over my various copies of t2 and explain why i have multiples even though i prefer the first film and which version i think is the one you should grab which is very inexpensive pretty much all of these are and which version i think is necessary to have as a supplemental disc in terms of extras and also the one that i think is essential simply for its soundtrack alone so to start i think the easiest thing to do would be to just go chronologically and go back to ye olde days of video in 1991 1992 to see how t2 sort of started and then how the home video machine kept it going over the years and various repackagings reissues and so on and so forth so to go back to the beginning and this is actually important for a couple different reasons all we had was the theatrical cut which got released on vhs and laserdisc on ld we got the deluxe box set here with the film in cav so it's a full on box with the typical lift box type lid but this also includes the making of documentary which has been ported over and has its own particular transfer the audio is 2.0 matrix to pcm dolby surround it seems to be probably what you would have heard on the dolby stereo track if you saw this film on the original release and 35 millimeter you would have heard it in dolby stereo sr and that seems to be replicated here again i can only guess but it's a really nice potent mix even though it isn't discrete and i really like the way it sounds it sounds different to the special edition mix which was a special job done for the home release again this does include the documentary it has some text slides and extras i also really like the transfer on this i do think it is a sharper better looking transfer than the special edition should be because it is full cav it will mean that you do have to flip sides a lot more but i do like the inclusion of this this is my favorite part of any of the ld packages and it was reprinted in some of the later ones but it first appeared here the printed letter from james cameron talking about uh how they strove to get t2 looking as good as it possibly could on ld and and the best possible video format at the time of release and a little bit of technical notes you know explaining the scope aspect ratio later on they would do opened up versions and the custom pan and scan that cameron liked to name it that would use more of the super 35 format stock but of course that is not the intended scope ratio so that's explained here and then my favorite part is of course on all of these copies of this letter it simply says enjoy and don't forget to in all caps crank it up this is my favorite cameron thing ever this little goofy letter and all the t2 laser discs so i always really like this and of course you do have the promo still of arnie on the bike on this nice included photo stock insert does include a nice booklet with the chapter stops and i do prefer the poster artwork and so because of that they very nicely reproduced that so this is what the standard release looks like which we'll get to in a second so you've got that reproduced and the actual book so you don't lose out on having the awesome poster artwork and then unlike that because it is full cav as you can see the film itself is spread over multiple sides then the final part is all about the making of documentary of course same for the back so this is the same exact transfer that you're going to get on the standalone version but you get the benefit of the full cav presentation you get really nice custom sleeves with the logo they're polyline so if you find this the dish should be in really nice shape uh the sleeves probably not so much because they're they are a little flimsy they're not you know thick stock so they will be crinkled a little bit but this is held up really well this is much less common than the special edition box you don't see these all the time so if you are looking for one of these you will have to scrutinize it will probably take you a while and most of these as you can see have some wear and because it's a lot of discs in a box set most often the corners are going to have a lot of wear or be split thankfully this one isn't but it's got some definite wear um also i should mention the t2 logo is actually embossed on here very nicely so if you want the theatrical version on laserdisc and you want the making of documentary this is the one you want to find but of course do keep in mind it only has a pcm dolby stereo matrix soundtrack it does not have 5.1 again i do think the transfer on here of the us releases is probably the best overall if i had to choose i like some of the stuff in the special editions i don't really watch the theatrical cut all that often um at least in this particular version but again i do think this looks better than the special edition versions and again it's full cav so it does have that little uptick in picture quality as i mentioned before the standard version is exactly the same but it's clv so it's only two discs you don't get the making of documentary has the same art but this is just this is how you want your copy of t2 to look so this is also ultra common uh you can find this and you should not pay more than a dollar or two for it i think this one cost me a whole 50 cents and i only got it simply because the cover was perfect and it was 50 cents i mean this one is is pretty much immaculate but as you can see it pretty much replicates everything in its entirety the only difference is because it's clv it's only three sides and it doesn't have all the extras again same transfer as the box set but do keep in mind you miss all the swag you don't get the documentary and you don't get the fancy box but if you just want a version of t2 on ld and you like the theatrical cut this one is the one you're going to see everywhere do make sure you get the widescreen version the standard one has the same cover it's the same in every other way but it doesn't have the banner on the top but of course if you like the four to alternate version that's also a good reason to pick up that copy as well this has the same adobe stereo matrix pcm 2.0 mix which should be a perfect replication of the 1991 standard release audio that everybody else heard but again that's just my educated guess it does sound different to the special edition mix and still sounds really good for its time and what it is and now it's time to move on to the special edition and one of the great behemoths of laserdisc packaging one of the great laserdisc box sets this is something that's in everybody's collection everybody has it sooner or later and it's still one of the best packages in home video history i'm of course talking about the big old t2 special edition box set this is in its full faux leather slip case with the actual metallic plate for the t2 special edition logo this of course came in a number of color variations i think gold is the most common but there's also silver blue and red i think red is the most difficult one to find as with any t2 there's always variation somewhere so of course the box itself would originally had a hype sticker but you slip the actual case out and this is where it gets fun so first of all the spine is absolutely fantastic flip it over so you can see but then you get the two halves so you get arnie and a nice promo shot and then i've always loved the logo peeking out of the little cutout notch in the box and the flip side is the actual skeleton skull in flames and on this really it's it's not just glossy but this whole inner slip case box is like a really thick gloss it's a very heavy premium product which it just literally you can feel it when you pull it out so of course we get the insert with the new art and this is what was used for the standalone version of this so that's why if you've seen this before that is the common standalone version of the special edition box and then of course just like the theatrical cut box we get a fold out what i really like about this is it identifies all the editions just so just like the abyss box set and other cameron films all the additions are specifically noted and of course they talk about missing frames and reinserting things so on and so forth so that's on the first panel then your second panel is your chapter stops and then third is about the restoration the thx mastering process and how this laser disk was produced and then another nice touch the interior panel is another letter from james cameron this one asking answering the question why make a special edition and of course has the printed signature on there i must admit i've always really enjoyed that about the uh cameron film releases on laserdisc and the special edition box sets even though i'm not really james cameron fan it's just something that helps make the laserdisc and in particular really special it's definitely not something you see on blu-ray releases oh letter from the director you know signed and directly to you the purchaser of said disc then the actual discs themselves again are in custom sleeves but here they are custom actual jackets and you know identifying you know disc one just two dis three unfortunately the film is not in cav it's clv um unlike the theatrical cup box that's another reason why i think that theatrical cut box set version actually looks better than the special edition however the special edition has a brand new custom created dolby surround pcm mix which is uh it was apparently overseen by gary rydstrom the original sound designer and it's punchier than the theatrical cut audio on the theatrical cut box it sounds really nice actually it's still probably my favorite sounding version of the special edition so even though it's not discreet it's still a heck of a fun track there i mean even the later remixes of t2 they they keep changing stuff and adding stuff but you still can't quite make it sound bad uh it you just make it sound different but i do think this is when the era of home remixes were really trying to improve upon what was possible in the dolby surround matrix era of home video so i really think this is very much akin to the star wars definitive collection boxset remastered audio that made brand new dolby surround tracks from the original sources and tried to make them as accurate and as like the better term boomtastic as possible without you know really changing anything that affected the film itself so it's not theatrically 100 accurate but it's pretty close and it's very lively to this day then on uh this disc on site four the beginning of the supplemental section happens so this is basically a brand new making of with tons of textiles and slides and things and it continues on to disk 3 which is two-sided all the supplements i should say are cav encoded so the film's clv but the extras are cav so here's disc three again matching and also once this ends we get into a bit about the transfer a bit about the restoration the emitted scenes that were not included uh the publicity we get the trailer gallery and then we also get the guns and roses music videos so that's what makes this uh a release to want to own to if you're trying to have every single extra because this is where the infamous guns and roses music video that was dropped is included that's the big draw for this because most of this other stuff has been replicated on later releases but if you want everything and if you want the guns and roses music video on disc this is still the way to go about it and i know there are it's floating around online and other people have i think it's been uploaded to youtube before i don't know if it's still floating around but um if you want it on disk this is the way you want to do it so in short in terms of the ld boxes the original cab theatrical cut i think has the best picture overall in terms of all the early releases on laserdisc and has the seemingly theatrical audio from the standard 35 millimeter release whereas the special edition box gets you the new cut with the new home remix gary redstone over super i should say supervised uh plus all the additional extras and the gun to rose's music video so i think it is nice to have both especially if you're a laser disc collector or a t2 fan um both will set you back a little bit because they are heavy and more expensive to ship but you shouldn't have to pay too terribly much there are unfortunately some people who will definitely inflate prices because it's t2 and it's a big ld box but i will say the theatrical box is a lot harder to find complete over the special edition box and i just so happen to have somebody sent me as a gift once the another of the boxes so this is the same set but in the blue front plate as you can see like most of these it does have some areas where it is peeling the contents are exactly the same but it's just the front has a different color again there are four and it seems the red one is the hardest one to find um a lot of people will charge more for the various colors but again the actual box contents are the same so don't worry if you get one over another so then we move on to the standard letterbox version of the special edition so here's that image again this is also super common just like the theatrical cut disc this one you shouldn't have to pay more than a buck or two for uh this was actually the first version i owned on ld and i've held on to it simply because it's just the other version it's easier to pull off the shelf than the box at sometimes this is clv two discs so ironically this is exactly the same as the uh movie disc inside the box set so that's one of the reasons why when you get the box it's a little disappointing because it's not cav and the movie is identical to this standalone release and also they condensed everything down into a custom gatefold so first you get another copy of the james cameron letter but this is sort of combining the letter from the theatrical box with the updated version in the special edition box that's printed so here you get it like this so that's another version of this letter and then probably best overall the gatefold incorporates all the information about the cut scenes in which chapters you'll find them so here along the edges as you can see you have the information about the cut scenes with the chapter information there on the bottom beautiful wrap around photo which is perfectly appropriate and then the rest of them are here on the second panel and then you get nice art on the reverse so basically this summarizes the big special edition box plus a copy of the cameron letter it looks really nice it is dirt cheap so there's really no reason to not have a version of this and the theatrical disk if you don't want the box sets um or if you just want standard copies because these are so cheap and so common you can get them for about you know a dollar or so each or less from you know good sellers or stores that don't mark up their disks so if you're a collector of laserdisc or your terminator fan and you just want display pieces there's really no reason to not have copies of these because they are that common and again this replicates the box set transfer and audio completely because the discs are identical again there's also a 4-3 version of this particular transfer floating around so it will have this same art just without the widescreen banner on top i would like to find one someday because i have collected some of the other cameron four to three variants like true lies and the abyss but of course like those the uh four to three versions are much less common because i guess they were printed in much smaller quantities but you can find it out there uh for both the theatrical and the special edition version now do keep in mind this is not comprehensive there are many more t2s out there a lot of laserdisc fans and other terminator fans really like some of the rare japanese versions on laserdisc of which there are many in particular there are some late releases there is a squeeze anamorphic japanese version as well and by squeeze i mean it is literally a 16 9 encoded anamorphic image just like a dvd encoded onto a laserdisc this was shortly lived in japan and all these discs are thus very rare there were a handful of promo discs made in the us not terminator 2 of course but that means you can actually display them on a 16 by 9 display device and they're not going to be pillar boxed because they're not 4-3 they're actually 16-9 they were designed for early 16x9 televisions that didn't quite take off at the time that's its own particular version but again it usually is very expensive um there are several others which i've never quite gotten into and the transfers and audio sort of vary some are based around the us releases some are their own thing there are also different european masters as well so if you want to go down further the rabbit in the rabbit hole you can by all means but it's going to be a very time consuming and expensive process so i'm sticking primarily with the us versions because these are what i have this that's what i'm experienced with but there are of course other versions out there now uh the final release on laserdisc was in 1998 so it means it's a very late release and it does have ac3 5.1 i've never been able to get a copy because it's very rare and usually goes for quite a bit when it does pop up but it is the theatrical cut it's the movie only it has both matrix 2.0 pcm and 5.1 dolby digital ac3 however the importance of this release is not only is it possibly the best looking us disc i don't know because i've never been able to uh look at a copy because i don't own it um you know obviously it would probably be best overall because it's a new transfer and it's a late release ld compared to discs from the beginning of the decade but also the 5.1 is actually the theatrical cds mix and by cds i mean cinema digital sound it was a very short-lived process it was a 5.1 system that actually encoded a digital pcm of i should say full bitrate pcm at cd quality in terms of the 5.1 characteristics itself it was encoded onto the film print but unfortunately there was no space or ability to have a backup audio track in case anything failed so that meant when problems happened which they did naturally including i think a premiere event of t2 um of the 70 millimeter version uh that's why cds was quickly discontinued and of course dolby was already working on their own system which would be the ac3 standard and then shortly after that which dolby premiered theirs in 1992 and dts came around in 1993 sony had their own system sdds and we were off to the digital format wars in terms of sound competing formats so cds was right before this and it's only a handful of films like days of thunder the doors uh dick tracy t2 edward scissorhands again it was it's very few films and most were only four channel mixes like 4.0 or 4.1 so only a very few were actually 5.1 like dick tracy and terminator 2 and they are very innovative in their sound design so they're extremely important in the advancement of usage of discrete surrounds and stereo imaging and t2 i think is the most important of these because it's the most aggressive and a really incredible mix that pushes the art of sound mixing forward much like what would happen two years later with the theatrical release of jurassic park as the premier film in the new dts system so to have that cds mix on disc is very important for the theatrical cut and so the fact that the laserdisc has it is is really great that we have an ability to enjoy it however that is very rare usually is quite pricey if and when it does pop up but for the initial dvd release right around the same time artisan and who would eventually become lionsgate of course decided to make a quickie dvd port of that laserdisc master there are a couple versions of this in both snapper and keep case but it looks like this so this version is the first dvd release it is the theatrical cut only it doesn't really have the wealth of extras that was on the box set releases however it does have a good deal of information in terms of old-fashioned dvd text menus does include the trailer it has both a 2.0 mix which i assume is a lossy version of what's on the ld and most importantly it has that 5.1 ac3 this is also anamorphically enhanced so you can watch this on a modern display and you don't have to worry about it being litter boxed and not you know not anamorphic letterboxed but anyway this is the easiest and best way to actually listen to the original groundbreaking cds 5.1 mix it is really well done the balance i think is is best overall there are much greater t2 nerds than than me who know all the intricate differences and can tell you two seconds which mix you're listening to but basically after the cds mix you have the home versions and after this point every time they reissued the film they would tweak the film in terms of the audio mix and they would change things and add things and play around with the levels in the eq and basically each time they went to the well it just got further and further away from the original design so if you've never had the opportunity to listen to it this way i still think this is the best sounding version of t2 it has nice aggression to it but it doesn't uh go overboard and also the balance overall between channels eq effects levels music levels i think is best here i think every mix on the successive releases really is a further step away and actually not as good i don't think but again this is a really fantastic sounding disc and really essential to have if you're a big fan of the film or of cinema audio in general because this like jurassic park is one of the big titles uh of the digital sound era especially at the beginning and it's amazing we can actually enjoy this mix on disc but again if you're just going back and forth between this and uh the you know older lds and you know the stuff before they really started playing around with it further on the later dvds and blu-rays you're probably not going to notice a whole lot of stuff unless you have a pretty good system set up and you're literally doing direct comparisons back and forth because i think overall when you put this on you can tell the difference in a 5.1 environment compared to the later releases and even the non-discrete versions on the laserdisc so i still think this is the best sounding version overall and this is how you listen to the intended 5.1 theatrical mix it was only heard on the 70 millimeter releases with the cds system implemented and of course that meant when it was actually working then we keep on into the dvds so in 2000 a couple years later we got the ultimate edition which has a number of different packaging varieties i don't have the fancy slip case for this but this is still a nice looking dvd package it's in the double silver case a double opening case i should say that artisan also used for other releases like their special edition of the doors for example so of course opens like this you get a nice pretty thick booklet this release had a number of new extras plus it brought over the vintage making of documentary from the theatrical cut laserdisc box so this is where we got some new extras added in a brand new transfer it includes both versions so this will get you the special edition as well however the audio has been remastered again and so we now have a new mix in both dolby digital 5.1 ex and dts 5.1 es those are the two systems with rear center matrix or discrete information this was developed in 1999 and 2000 by both companies first for cinemas that installed it and then of course films that actually used the process in terms of their sound mixers and then of course it carried over into the home environment on dvd where it would either be dis a handful were discrete in the dts es variant but otherwise it would be matrixed in there and you'd flip the flag on your the switch on your receiver to engage it if it wasn't encoded with a flag on the disc to automatically do it for you however all this information because it's in the rear surrounds anyway if you don't have that ability if your speakers are perfectly equidistant you'll still be able to hear that information behind you now i will say this still sounds pretty good but it is not the cds of the previous dvd the balance isn't quite as good and they do play around with some things but again it still sounds good it's just again different so it's not you know completely theatrically accurate but this is you know the first step they tried with modern tools and would only continue to tweak it further here and there but uh this is where some new extras came in and so this is why i've got this i started getting all the various versions because i wanted to try and compile make sure i had all the various extras and this is still dirt cheap i mean most of my t2s uh you know didn't cost me more than a dollar you know accepting the box sets on ld uh that and uh the the blu-ray like this one cost me i think 50 cents you can find the various terminator 2 dvds for literally nothing so then we move on a little bit further and get even more confusing so this is 2003 where we get the extreme dvd package which again has multiple versions i don't have the the fancy slip case but this is optimized further it's a new 1080p hd master so i think this may be the start of the stuff that started turning up on hdtv airings and then the eventual first couple blu-rays and what's of course quirky about this as it proudly proclaims you can actually watch an early hd version uh it is encoded especially on the disc with your you know you stick it in your pc and you can use windows media player to access a 1080p version of the film or at least i should say and i can't remember the actual resolution of this i don't know if it's 720p or 1080i or something but this is when a handful of things would start trying to do stuff like this it has 5.1 ex audio it drops the dts es from the previous release so you will have to have that for the dtscs version i think this is the same 5.1 ex track that's from the previous disc i i can't be 100 certain but it sounds pretty much the same uh the custom art is pretty nice you get another booklet and you get both cuts of the film as well there are some extras i don't think it carries over everything from the previous dvd and i think one or two of these are actually new so and we're introduced on this release so this is another version you've got to have and of course you can if you can find some way to access it there is a quasi hd version of this here uh included in this but again i don't know if it's actually accessible now that all this stuff is this old so after this point we jump over into the hd realm and we were confronted with the skynet edition blu-ray which again i think is is using this the same master but was hit with additional layers of digital noise reduction and has had further audio remixing into the then newer techniques that we're getting into 6.1 and 7.1 territory so that has been reissued several times it does have a pretty good extras package but it doesn't have 100 of everything from both dvd special editions and everything from the laserdisc box sets and of course not the guns roses music video so there was a pretty decent outcry over the issues with that release they did it several different ways there are many different packaging versions and then finally in 2015 we got a very slimmed down package literally going down to a single disk and we got the 2015 blu-ray so this takes that master and doesn't have the same levels of digital noise reduction applied to it this has a nice extras package it has both cuts of the film it has 5.1 audio it has additional audio mixes as well it even has a dts headphone x version which if you like that sort of thing what's great about this it distills everything down to a single disc inexpensive package it has a good portion if not most of all the old legacy extras it has a version of the audio for both cuts of the film in 5.1 lossless dts hdma audio it sounds good i don't think it sounds as good as the cds for the theatrical cut and again i do still kind of prefer the laserdisc mix for the special edition but all that all the squibbles aside if you want one version of the film that has pretty good color timing doesn't have the same crazy levels of dnr to it has a good portion of the extras and both cuts this is what you need to get it is frequently on sale for five dollars or less you can buy used for even less if you just want a version of terminator 2 you want the best overall version this is what you want to go for after this they came out with the aforementioned uhd it's based off of the old 3d conversion it is just not pretty to look at the sound has been remixed further i think it's absolutely a deplorable disc and on top of that it has its own particular color timing which is not theatrically accurate so in every single way the blu-ray is much better and when i got this it was on sale and so was the uhd and i actually had to pay a dollar more to get the blu-ray i think i bought this for about six dollars and the uhd was on sale for five dollars and i'm like um no i'm just i'm not even going to bother i'm going to buy the 2015 disc so this is the one you want to find the way to tell it apart from the other versions of course you want to look for the 2015 date on the bottom and also some version of the theatrical motorbike art is on the front here and it does include a digital copy which i'm sure it's probably expired by now but if it's not if you like that sort of thing that's included but this is the one you want to go for this is still currently the best version of the film on disc in terms of the modern specs and picture resolution so if you want to start somewhere or you just want a copy of the film this is what you want you want the 2015 lionsgate blu-ray this will get you most everything but of course what you should supplement it with and what t2 fans should own at least if not the laserdisc some version of the original dvd with the cts 5.1 audio again this is still the best sounding t2 out there this is what you want to find if you find this in a bargain bin anywhere there are multiple versions so it's either this way or in a keep case you want to look for this cover image from the original poster with the sort of metallic background that mimics the old theatrical cut laserdisc box set so having these two you're pretty solid but of course if you want absolutely every last extra you need to get both of the previous dvds and you also need to get at the very least the laserdisc special edition box sets to get the guns roses music video and of course i like the mix for the special edition on laserdisc best and if you get into laserdisc i'd also recommend getting the theatrical cut box which has a better transfer than the special edition has the 2.0 theatrical audio and the making of documentary on ld even though the vintage making of documentary here is eventually carried over to some of the dvds and blu-rays so that's why i've got so many t2s that's what my collection looks like i never intended to get this many but i just wanted to make sure i got every extra and got some of the cool laserdisc box sets and then it just sort of spiraled out of control as all cameron films do so that's it for my terminator 2 collection i hope that explained why i have so many dark copies of t2 uh it is very cheap to do so honestly if you're interested in any of this stuff or you're a fan of the film there's really no reason to not at least have a couple different terminator twos and if you want to get every single extra you're going to have to do that anyway but basically i think the 2015 blu-ray is the way to go still it's it's a shame that you're still having to deal with a compromised master and that's the best you can do but in terms of the disc itself it doesn't have as much dnr the encoding is better than the previous blu-rays it has a version of the audio that's at least a little bit closer to how it was it has most of the extras and it has both cuts of the film so i think it's about the best you can do but i would say supplement it with the either the first dvd or the last laserdisc here in the us to get that really great and important cds audio track in discrete 5.1 which is still i think the best sounding t2 there is and then if you want to go down the rabbit hole further i'd say go into laserdisc where cameron films really are at their strongest and what's really crazy is if that's still the best way to watch a number of cameron films you know true lies in the abyss are still stuck in that era of transfer in terms of their only dvd release being a port of their laserdisc and of course the abyss has the two different cuts it has the really great special edition box set the ac3 reissue the four to three versions which i have most of those and true lies has is probably best on the dts laserdisc which i have a copy of but unfortunately still has the same problematic video transfer that was ported to the dvd at least true lies got released on the d theater format in 1080i uh which i believe t2 did as well but with t2 you do have you know versions on blu-ray and actual 1080p whereas true lies that never happened but uh i do think the dts laserdisc for true lies is the best-sounding version floating around or at least officially available but it's a shame we're having to do this with with films that are very popular very well known they made tons of money so it shouldn't be that way but of course with cameron films you're just stuck with constant revisionism uh apparent mania for destroying film grain trying to make them look and sound like you know completely different films to their original release version so if you like these films or if this stuff interests you you wind up having to hang on to various versions and saying all this you know the same goes for terminator one which is why as you can see i have you know multiple copies behind me and um you know what why not i can go over those real quick so to start with ld really quick uh there were you know a number of pen and scanner four to three versions i should shape since i opened up because of course this build was not scope it was 185 spherical and a much lower budget hence it had a mono mix so this is actually probably the rarest version in the us on laserdisc it's not the earliest but it's it's in the middle from 1989 this is the image 4-3 release also with an hbo video credit and images you know typical style of jacket it has digital sound it's not the best transfer in the world it's definitely blown away by the later versions but this one is exceptionally uncommon um i just picked it up on a whim because it was perfect and only cost me a quarter but this is actually very expensive on the used market again simply because of the rarity but this is not the version you'll want to get to watch and enjoy from a theatrical accuracy perspective but this is a cool variant to have and very very uncommon there are two letterbox versions on laserdisc and this is where you really want to focus your search so first is the hymdale released by image early 90s letterbox pressing with the theatrical art this is bit apparent it seems to be based off of a release print it does have q changeovers it's a bit dirtier and grungier in terms of the print quality and the color timing it does have the theatrical mono mix which sounds nice and punchy on here but obviously like the transfer of the picture element isn't you know super cleaned up it's not a studio source um but it's still well done this was the first time you had a proper version of this film to watch and enjoy on any format and as with all these all this stuff carried over onto vhs usually getting pen and scanned in the process but if you want the warts and all sort of i mean it's not really a grindhouse presentation but like if you want like the midnight movie experience like if you went to an art house and they got an original uh print that you know just was in pretty decent shape and projected it that's what this is going to most resemble so it's still a nice presentation however it was outdone a couple years later by the thx supervised widescreen edition reissue this was apparently based off an inner positive much cleaner much more balanced color timing it has the mono and the mono is perfectly clean this and the first dvd that ported this are probably the best ways to experience the mono this is a phenomenal laser dispressing this this is one of those you watch and you forget it's a laserdisc until you hit the side change it's almost dvd and quality uh it is really you could use this as a reference grade test disk in a lot of ways uh just a really fantastic disc overall but the art is the same as the previous one so if you just wanted one ld copy you'd want to grab this one so as i said they did port it over to dvd like t2 had the same thing happen so the original hymdale snapper case looks like this exact same art pretty nice glossy sleeve which wasn't always common on snapper cases it has the mono but it has been knocked down to dolby digital so it is lossy as compared to the lossless pcm on the laserdisc very standard case very plain but there's your chapter stops but that's what this one looks like and it is definitely the hardest version of terminator 1 to get on dvd but it is a port of that laserdisc master i can't remember i also think this one is of course not anamorphic because it's an early dvd uh so it is literally a laserdisc port then in 2003 uh like their mad max reissue uh mgm decided to do a spiffed up special edition with a new transfer it came with art like this so this had some new extras plus some old ones that includes a new documentary and everything but in terms of the audio it still has the original mono which sounds pretty darn good actually but it in it introduces the new 5.1 ex remix which was done from the ground up they did mono originally because the budget didn't spring for dolby stereo or they decided to focus more on the effects work and cameron has regretted it ever since and now after this point the mono disappears however the new remix while technically superior is completely inferior in every way it alters the character of many scenes it does not fit with the 1984 production uh the original mono mix is perfect it's one of the great mono mixes because it is very late for mono it's it's full of you know gunfire and various effects and things and it's really effective and that's how the film was originally mixed and intended to be experienced so while it's nice they got to go back and do a mix that was more in line with their modern thinking it is not the way to watch the film and it's one of the most obvious cases where the original mono is the preferred way to go but as i said after this point it disappeared so if you want to hear the mono and you want it on disk this is the easiest way to get it you can still get this released for very cheap uh it because it's packed with extras just like their mad max disc they didn't spring for two discs so it is unfortunately a flipper disc but you do get a nice insert and again it is anamorphic whereas the old dvd i'm pretty sure is not uh it also came with a slip case which i don't have so there are variants of this but if you get this just make sure it says mono on the back and it should look like this they did carry this over into the initial blu-ray release which i have here so same art same transfer but this time in 1080p it is obviously an older master but you know it it's held up pretty well it doesn't have the color timing issues of the new master however even though it brings over i really brings over some but not all of the extras on here but the more important thing is this only has the 5.1 mix uh this time it's encoded lossless pcm but they left off the original mono mix so i i can't really watch this or really any version of on blu-ray of the official releases because it only has the ungodly awful 5.1 remix so if you get this it's just because you want this master and hd or you want a full pcm uncompressed version of the 5.15 such a 5.1 ex mix then we get to what's currently in print which is the new 4k mastered scan released a number of different ways i have it here with the revised art in a blood red blu-ray case which looks pretty nice and you can get this for very very cheap i believe this has it's got some of the extras from the mgm disc i don't think it's got all of them though so again some things are still exclusive to the dvd however we get once again the 5.1 remix as uncompressed pcm you get at least in this version there's a couple art cards included the new wired on a disk again there are multiple different packaging variants of this but it's the same disk contents but in terms of the master it's a beautiful new scam with fine detail that is nowhere to be found on the old releases so that's great but it's been hit with a complete modern color grading that is full of the dreaded teal coloring that a lot of people like to go on and on about in terms of debating it but it's definitely here it should not be there and it ruins what is otherwise a great scan so while this has a beautiful new source scan in terms of the experience you're much better off with the old master on this disc and neither one has the all-important original mono which to even get a copy of and one that sounds pretty good you have to go all the way back to the mgm disc which again this dvd has more extras well i should say all the ones that were created for this film are here so at the very least you've got to have one of the blu-rays plus the dvd and if you want the full experience i think you really need to do yourself a favor and grab a copy at least of the thx signed off on uh letterbox laserdisc reissue from this is from 1995. yeah 95. so there you have it and it doesn't have to be this way there is no reason why this new master couldn't have proper color timing proper grain structure intact and have the original mono mix plus the handful of bits of the dvd extras that weren't included so this one is just they didn't want it or and or people were too lazy to make sure all the extras were carried over and it seems like it is like an edict to never have the mono mix again post the dvd so it's a bit less convoluted than t2 there are of course many repackages just like that film but in terms of overall editions if you want everything terminator one related and you want all the best stuff you pretty much have to have the new blu-ray just have the new master with crappy audio and crappy color timing then the old master and hd but without the mono without all the extras the dvd for all the extras and the mono and then of course going back to either the first dvd or the laserdisc for probably the best sounding mono overall so that's my overall terminator 1 and 2 video collection why i have so many different editions and a very cliff notes run through of the various quirks of all the versions on dvd blu-ray and laserdisc what you're looking at if you're trying to get you know all the various extras and audio mixes and just figure out the whole uh terminator scenario for the first two original films on disc and unfortunately you really do need a mix of things because not everything is carried over the original audio has not carried over there are color timing issues here and there so again with every camera film you go through this stuff and at least with terminator 1 and 2 you can compile all these different releases and you can get everything together whereas the other films especially the ones without blu-ray releases you can't do that um so it's possible and very very fortunately all this stuff is very cheap again what you'll have to pay most for if you're willing to dig through bargain bins and and record stores and and various places you can pretty much find all the dvds and blu-rays for very cheap what's going to set you back a little bit is the big heavy laser just special edition box sets which honestly shouldn't cost you more than 10 to 20 dollars plus shipping but again trying to find one complete in good shape you'll probably pay a little bit more than that but just be patient it is doable and you know i was able to put all this together for very very little money and honestly it's it's very worth it because you learn a lot you you get to experience the film in different ways and you become more acquainted with it and its production history and see how things were done and see the video history just unfold in front of your eyes so i i think this stuff is beyond interesting and uh beyond informative but uh it is getting into very nerdy territory so i do readily admit that so again if you want just the bare essential best versions to have of these films i'll i'll just say if you don't want to get into the laserdisc realm and you just want to do it simply and and get the best overall for t2 i think you need the 2015 blu-ray plus the original dvd for the cds audio track and then for terminator 1 you know you can have the new version if you want the new master even though it's got the dodgy color timing and or the original blu-ray release but the very least go get yourself a copy of the mgm dvd so you can at least have all the extras in one place plus the original mono and then you can go into the laserdisc territory if you want to or if you have a working player which i know is not an easy thing to do these days but that's where it stands for both films these are the releases you're going to want to add to your collection so as always thank you ever so much for listening to my babbles i hope this has been at least somewhat fun and informative it's it's much more convoluted than you'd ever think and again this is without me getting into all the uh japanese laserdiscs and the other various foreign releases which is basically a whole other video which uh i've never owned any of those so i could only guess and talk about things that other people have said and forums and things but uh in in terms of the way it is on the u.s home video market these are the additions you're going to be looking for and looking at so as always thank you ever so much for watching and you know at least we're past judgment day now right

Channel: Damn Fool Idealistic Crusader

Views: 21,851

Keywords: Laserdisc, DVD, Blu-ray, Terminator, T2, Terminator 2, Home video revisionism, UHD

Id: d2RreENnjyI

Length: 51min 52sec (3112 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 09 2021