The Rivalry of Paul McCartney & Brian Wilson

in the early 60s you got you guys the Beach Boys and the Beatles were very kind of competitive it was kind of like a rivalry the Beatles were number one we were number two we've got to get there before they do Rubber Soul Gaga I mean Pet Sounds and Pet Sounds got them Sergeant Pepper was announced before Pat's aresty already stealing I want and try to top it try to top each other all the time I felt competitive with the Beatles it may be a fairly well beaten dead horse by now everyone knows the Beatles in the Beach Boys were competitive during the mid-60s and people have been comparing the two for their entire careers The Beatles versus the Beach Boys most people come to the consensus that while the Beach Boys released a few great albums they were essentially a germination of the 50s era due up vocal groups while the Beatles transformed music reflecting the psychedelic latter half of the 60s one stuck to a formula both in music and fashion while the others became immortalized as icons of musical advancement and individual self-expression but it's not that simple if you're interested in music history and merely scratch the surface you'll learn that there's a lot more nuance to the common narrative and you have to look past the fact that the Beatles were a lot more successful and famous like a lot more even the Beatles themselves seemed to have been flabbergasted at their own success we were copying imported music but if we went we didn't think we liked doing anything important it was only when the sort of right to start saying well they've got an A Leo do you know liam cadence here and a panettone cluster oh say had a ton a cluster away yeah we've got some of them and he said you had unresolved leading tones false modal frame ending up as a plain diatonic what what is occurred to you as to why you've succeeded it's important to understand just how different the early environments of both these bands were where the Beatles were these scrappy almost Dickensian Street kids the Beach Boys were beaten under the tyrannical father Murray to always be musically perfect [Music] quit screaming start singing from your heart sighs you're doing fine now watch your use come in on the low notes Mike Karl ooh your uh come on Dennis your flatting okay Mike you're fighting on your high notes let's go let's roll so your big stars let's fight huh let's fight for success okay let's go whereas the Beatles always reminds me of that movie little rascals now we knew and we knew a it was crazy but we didn't knew Bree said we didn't know b7 pretty different cloths to be cut from so um we go on the bus troop to cross Liverpool changed a couple of busses found this fella and he shows but to compare these bands strictly along harmonica lines would be a mistake indeed what the early Beatles may have lacked in professionalism they made up for in their authenticity they seemed like genuine friends do you find any difficulty in keeping up your public image just know what image it's our image is just us you know as we were we don't try and make an image it just happens so we don't have to keep it up we just remain ourselves don't we Ringo now to be fair to say the Beatles were not concerned at all about the public image would be untrue certainly Paul McCartney is famous for being one of the greatest PR men who ever lived but we'll get more into that later the history of rock is murky but if you want to break down the timeline the Beach Boys first album surfin Safari was released by Capitol about a year and a half before the Beatles ever appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show in America so you have to wonder did the Beatles here surf music before they came to America and what did they think of America's current number one band on the west coast of America a new sound was born the surfing sound it was a tremendous rage over there and it's been quite a big success here to the boys who invented it are making their first television appearance in Britain um Ready Steady Go here there were there big hit number I get around the Beach Boys [Applause] so we were inspired by beach boy you can't [Music] me [Music] already stealing stuff off them [Music] very humbly because we had been on top there you know for that a year or so before when the Beatles came along Brian aftermath was little Brian Wilson found the music of the Beatles fresh and challenging the competitive streak Murray had instilled in him took over Sully's crazy kids everything of us the Beatles we should go back where they came from I know really challenged us in a way the race was afoot I knew we were good we're good at it but I didn't not so the Beatles hit then we really felt like we had to get going yeah because they were like going like crazy you know so we stepped on the gas wipe out when we started to hear the Beatles music it struck fear and every American musician was hard and I always think it must have been so weird for the bands that were already big in America to suddenly have all these British people coming over and showing them how to play American music better meanwhile the Beatles were doing the opposite and getting really into Bob Dylan in the folk scene which brought them back to their early days in Liverpool as a skiffle band but skiffle was just a British reimagining of American Appalachian music in the first place and adds to metal I'm not going down that rabbit hole okay but moving along to the actual rivalry as it exists on the record the year was 1964 the rover soul really was a matter of having all experienced the recording studio having grown musically as well but mainly having experienced the studio and knowing the possibilities we always wanted every single record to have a different sound we never wanted to get trapped in this the Mersey piece it's one of my favorite albums well he was a great album Brian Wilson liked it too he actually became obsessed with it when I first heard it I flipped November of 65 at my house in Beverly Hills my friend goes I want you to listen to this alibi the Beatles blew my mind just totally took my mind away I thought to myself god they're so good I feel competitive about this but I said I wanna make an album like that well all the songs in Munich a collection of bull song for them I wanted to try to top it I felt competitive with the Beatles you know it's a funny thing it's playing but I felt competitive was hilarious but I realized that before we can go much further we need to talk about this guy Beatles producer George Martin often considered the fifth Beatle it was he who not only brought a musical sophistication to the session seated in both jazz and classical music he also served as the band's physical producer Manning the control room and often translating the band's far-out ideas into practical doable production approaches as where the Beatles had George Martin and John and Paul wrote the songs together Brian was kind of like a one-man you wrote most of the songs yeah I did most of my myself back then it meant a lot to me cuz you know I was like very nervous you know because I didn't want the [ __ ] up on the southern production Brian was obsessed with recording the perfect album one that was better than the Beatles masterpiece Rubber Soul the quest galvanized his ambition Brian's obsessive desire to Trump the Beatles led to his greatest work when we were beginning to work on Pet Sounds Brian and I both talked about Rubber Soul that's Tony Asher he did help Brian but only with the lyrics and said let's try to do that let's try to put the bar up there where where this album had put it you know what album that would be a rival to Rubber Soul months and months of rear according he's talking only about the vocal sessions for only one song but somehow wouldn't it be nice made the grade it's like this and instead of the Beach Boys themselves actually playing any instruments Brian instead hired a bunch of LA studio musicians who offered him both the variety and precision to explore different styles from exotica to baroque Pet Sounds is probably the most significant album of our generation but if you're at all familiar with my channel you already know how much I love this album but what did these guys think of it I took an acetate of Pet Sounds to England before it was released and Paul McCartney came by watching the two of them listened to that and said I'll take that one I'll take that oh there's a great big Pet Sounds album in the Beach Boys that sound a whole album who flipped me still does that she's still in my favorite albums of all time just because the musical invention on that is like Wow well that was the big thing for me I just thought of me this is the album of all time what the hell are we gonna do so my ideas took off from that standard I wanted to do stuff beyond this it gave the Beatles great inspiration and it gave a challenge number two Jonah Paul called me after they heard Pet Sounds and told her how much they liked it it was quite an honor for me because Carl's house at the beach somebody's birthday Paul McCartney was there he was invited did come by and he and his wife yeah and he said well Brian this morning I was driving along Mulholland Drive playing Pet Sounds on the stereo or whatever I think he said it sounds on me stereo tears in the eyes tears fallin from the odds mic love you're so creepy but the Beatles were quick to fire back with their next entry we've in mind I wrote x-men revolvers typically seen as the spiritual follow-up to Rubber Soul that really underscores the point of why there's all those so important because there you have the diesels firing on all four cylinders all fully engaged and all of them on the same page wanting to make the best possible Beatle music there could be it's sort of them easing into the next phase of their career with this album that is largely comprised of material that you could not reproduce on stage it also marks the period of McCartney really starting to take over as leader of the band as Lennon's interests were beginning to be pulled in all different directions but colony would provide the group's artistic direction for almost every post revolver project and with McCartney comes a kind of pop conscious hesitation a kind of populist conservatism I mean if we just suddenly did exactly what we'd want to do the thing actually at the moment that is what we want to do what we did is what we've done on revolver but if we did like all the way out things we did or a whole album of them then we'd be doing what like the people who do electronic music - they go too far out too suddenly and no one stays with them and everyone else is left behind because they're miles out I had sort of digging all this electronic stuff but in fact what we've tried to do is I do the last album Rubber Soul a bit more towards that than this one a bit more and the next one should be a bit more and if people stay with us you know it's great apparently the vibe crept into here there and everywhere on the revolver album now I don't know about that but it's clear that the Beatles nor the rest of the music world weren't done Agha lling the pop triumph of Pet Sounds they continued their attempts to top it because of the work they'd done it didn't seem too much of a stretch for us to get further out than they've got quick side note people compare Pet Sounds and Sergeant Pepper so often that this guy even made an entire mashup album called The Beatles yeah I agree you can do some research and then find out for yourself oh I see why that pepper has this particular flavor because it was really being driven by Paul McCartney and George Martin who are really working together very closely you know Lennon was being dragged along and would contribute well when he could engage him but you know he was really deep into his acid phase at that time and then you've got George who sort of withdrawing from the whole rock-and-roll thing at that point you know here's the Beatles lead guitarist who's writing songs on keyboard that year and really sort of forsaking his guitar duties you know Paul's taking them up throughout the album while George studies Eastern mysticism and the charm so it's pretty clear where Paul and George Martin got the inspiration for the production approach for Sergeant Pepper this intensive approach to recording was another influence picked up from the American psychedelic scene the idea that it's possible to you know really spend time in the studio and experiments and explore Brian Wilson was doing that with Pet Sounds and Paul sort of pick that baton up as well here we get it we'll send the tape you ready marshaling the band was veteran producer George Martin returned the studio into the lp's final instrument George was brilliant over there was like a schoolmaster who was schoolchildren and Sergeant Pepper it was a catalyst Brian set his sights even higher he started composing an album called smile and promised it would be better than Pet Sounds smile is experimental music let's all record in the bathroom let's get into the shower and set up a mic let's all lie on our back in the studio and try this way [Music] from the track surface up I just did this hand to hand and that's what he wanted but again the Beach Boys were on tour and they came home and they found these songs that he wanted them to sing that bore absolutely no resemblance to anything that seemed like you know normal life heroes and villains and Van Dyke Parks wrote these songs that were just oblique to say the least the famous line that caused my glove to blow his top was in the song cab in essence what the hell is this like what could this possibly mean we don't want to sing about that [ __ ] but Brian was having a lot more problems than uncooperative bandmates he was getting into habitual daily drug use and he was starting to become severely detached he was beginning his infamous downward spiral that was during this time that the Beach Boys and The Beatles shared a publicist and there are two famous stories of Paul and Brian meeting during this downward spiral period I remember going over to Derek's house one night and getting a bit stimulated yeah sure Brian comes over he's got the shades on yeah and he's you know he'd gone in to be sort of nervous he face it was he was still a little bit he had these shades I said do you mind if I keep the shades on man it's a Brian it's your life baby can you keep the shades oh I love those shades they look great anyways you mind if I play you're a record I don't know that'd be way he plays good vibrations like you've never heard it before yeah you're in the room with Brian and he puts it on yeah sometimes you get those magic little moments and the other encounter was again because of their publicist Derek Taylor he came in with Derek Taylor to the studio that we were in one night in 1967 and it was on that night that he played for my my wife and I she's leaving home my wife cried and everything was supposed to tears you know but he when he walked in he had these beautiful patent leather shoes red patent leather shoes in a white suit he looks so cool you know and we said you want some vegetables we were cutting a song called vegetables we were all shooting our vegetables just to get the mood and he did he start to Don a carrot it's interesting how important this encounter seems to have been to Brian and his wife the Paul actually has no memory of it I don't know there might have been substances involved it might have happened I don't know I don't remember it all I must say particularly some of those dark nights in LA you know you just sometimes would fall out of a car into a room would be very dark and I'm not sure if I remember it I did visit a couple of those sessions but I don't remember eating vegetables I'm sure he did and it's on the album I jump up and down but Brian never really finished smile and he was having a lot of problems that made him unable to keep up with his musical rivalry with Paul in his entire career no album had ever taken so long to finish the Paul McCartney was there is when are you gonna do another album like Pitts sounds Brian if there was still a musical arms race going on Brian was beginning to be aware that he was losing because even the Beatles Post Sergeant Pepper material was blowing his mind well he struggled to keep up I was on Seconal you know those kind of pills Downers and I was real relaxed and when Strawberry Fields came on the radio I liked it locked in with it I like I jerked right in with it and like took me I had to pull over to my car over the side listened to it and I said I've never heard anything like this in my life and he just shook his head and he said they did it already I said they did what he said what I wanted to give him a smile you know maybe it's too late this fellow who Paul McCartney and Sir George Martin and John Lennon and Leonard Bernstein called one of the true American treasures is behind the counter selling ginseng and vitamins maybe it's too late and I just started laughing my head off and he started laughing his head off so I always you know I never gave that much import to that but the moment he said it he sounded very serious it's a sad moment to imagine and it does seem the race was over because you can't deny that the White Album Abbey Road let it be they're all great albums continuing The Beatles's legacy whereas the Beach Boys never really released anything that came close to Pet Sounds or smile ish and yet there are some who still contest that these two albums are more complex and exploratory than anything the beatles ever put out but personally i try not to get too wrapped up in some fictional scoreboard of musical ingenuity comparisons are tricky obviously both groups were made better by the other and i choose to acknowledge their work in tandem not in contrast the two have appeared together many times usually for press events sometimes performing they don't seem to be close friends or anything but their mutual respect is obvious and it's great to see the two geniuses still supporting each other and when asked they've always been upfront even eager to talk about their mutual influence here's a clip of them being cute you know Brian Wilson sort of proved himself to be like a really amazing composer yeah and I was into chords and harmonies and stuff at that time and we ended up it's kind of like a rivalry yeah we put the song goes Brian it here and then he do one which is nice it's like me and John you know you kind of try and top each other all the time he eventually came out with this god only knows that was a sound sounds yeah I just think it's a great song melody harmonies words do I like his melodies yeah I love his melodies are you kidding I think he was submersible I think what he does is he threw a whole bunch of different kinds of songs at you and we're supposed to figure out where they're all coming from you know I mean he was very very versatile and as a singer and a songwriter we'd like to ask you if you'd join in with us Johnny join it I've always talked to Brian Oh being a huge fan yeah you know is anyone ever asks me what's your favorite song girl who knows I said god only knows you know just it's subtle mystic we magically put together it's just a brilliant piece you know so I always knows I'm a big fan of his yeah and our birthdays are very similar I think he's 2 and 16 and I'm 18th or something oh I've got high polish it's primal Brian I do this wonderful to hear from the birthday he knows I love him the app located so there was no tension between you no no no no not really no not at all the 60s particularly wrote some music then when I played it it made me cry I don't quite know why wasn't necessarily the words of the music it's just some it's all teeth in it but there's only certain pieces of music can do this to me and just reach it right down near me and I think it's a sign of great genius to be able to do that with a bunch of words or a bunch of notes and this man he deserves to be a normal famous for sure so thank you sir for everything you've done for me for making me cry for having that thing you can do with your music you just put those notes those harmonies together stick a couple of words over the top of it and you've got me any day ladies and gentlemen Primus [Applause] [Applause] keep in mind I wrote x-men and keep in mind I'm on patreon now because I'd love to quit one of my jobs and do nothing but give you guys new videos so feel free to visit me there otherwise stay tuned for the next one thanks

Channel: Jeffrey Stillwell

Views: 841,203

Keywords: Paul McCartney, Brian Wilson, The Beach Boys, The Beatles, Beatles, Beach Boys, Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sgt. Pepper, Rubber Soul, Revolver, music history, video essay, music documentary, Jeff Stillwell, 2019, 1960s

Id: Hh7yI9Z6BvQ

Length: 23min 43sec (1423 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 11 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/idreamofpikas]

Rivalry is the wrong word, mutual appreciation is a more appropriate title.

[u/bundt_trundler]

The guy who made this video has Brian Wilson discovering the UK version of Rubber Soul in 1964. Brian heard an advance copy of the U.S. version in November of '65, was blown away by it and obsessed with topping that version.

[u/jahines55]

Brian was no match for Paul