The responsibilities of scientists | Creating Our Future Together With Science | Nobel Prize

I'm going to begin by having a conversation with Lis and myt and then I'm going to bring in three young scientists to join the conversation and I'm also going to try and find time to get some comments and questions from the audience got a lot to pack in so we'll get going the responsibilities of scientists um it's a huge topic it's perhaps something that scientists themselves don't think about so much when they're pursuing their scientific career because you get on with doing your science and getting the results out and communicating and do you stop to ask what are my responsibilities I'm not sure um but especially to combat the distrust of science that we've heard about and also the elitism maybe it is necessary to think about them so I would like to ask you both just initially just to reflect when you hear the term responsibilities of scientists what do you think of Luis do you want to go first well okay well good afternoon have everybody I'm very glad to be here uh you know there are several levels of responsibility of course uh the most obvious one may be is responsibility towards truth we should you know we should uh not uh tell uh things that we are doing uh uh we should not try to tell them in a in a way that they seem uh different from what the relevance really is so that's very important uh of course the system of evaluation of science sometimes encourages that uh uh like publishing many many papers uh and instead of just assembling them in one important paper things like that but I think scientists should stick to the main motivation for doing science which is curiosity and passion for science it's sorry I'm not going to I'm just going to briefly stop you because what you raise is such an important point and when we talk to audiences of young scientists around the world this pressure of the reward system in science is one of their main concerns and I just wondered if we could just put the lights up I wanted to get a show of hands who is worried about the reward system in science yeah that that's a pretty much everybody yeah that's a lot anyway sorry thank you very much indeed just a yeah so it's a it's a it's a topic that resonates with the audience so I didn't mean to so and the responsibility of scientists in fact which is difficult to pursue in view of this system we have is really to uh concentrate on the importance of her or his research know doing things that uh when things are are useful are important to do uh and uh being motivated by this main thing that motivated us to go into science the first place which is just curiosity passion for science that's it and I think that we one follows that eventually we might be rewarded or not but just doing that satisfying our curiosity and getting into the mysteries of the universe is already a reward it's a huge reward I think of the people who first found out about how the uh word Micro World works the people who founded quantum physics were they worried about getting award afterwards I don't think so if you look at it if you see their dialogues you know they were amazed but what they were finding out you know nature was not like one one knows just from looking at it if you have a better perspective you see that there are faces of nature that are completely different from our intuition and knowing that discovering that is already a biger reward so I think that one of the responsibilities of scientists is just to stick to that to stick to their basic motivation and consider that discovering new things is the best award of them all okay so that's one point beautiful and I do have some other remarks but you know well well let's let's bring M we come back please my B come back thank you no of course Louis I I agree completely with uh what you say um so so I feel responsible as a scientist both to ask the important questions as you say and also a sort of Tidy the field and it it when I say it I'm so ashamed because it seems like oh I'm this arrogant person who can tidy a field but but but as you say honesty is so extremely important so to to to olude um uh a field by publishing studies that are not worth publishing at the stage they are instead of waiting until you know that this is solid I think that is one responsibility another responsibility is that um I personally uh lead a lab where we uh use animals and I'm almost part of animal Liberation group because I'm so fond of animals so it's extremely important for me to respect the animals that we use treat them in a beautiful way that is my responsibility so they live in enriched environments we give them names so that we treat them in a good way and it's I I feel I have the responsibility to take care of the lab The Institute like a family to support them to respect them and see them and and I think if if we all try to encourage um good discussions that is also part of my responsibility I think so and sorry we we we'll we'll come back to the to building the environment the support of environment in the next panel but this yes this no no wrong answer right no right answer because this this responsibility to behave ethically at every level is a big one but very very well said Thank You G I would like to add two points to it this respons responsibility of the scientist first perhaps some more obvious one again it's uh the ethical Point uh of course in some Fields that's more important than in other fields but if you work for instance on biology having to do with intervention in the DNA you must have some ethical rules and you should follow these rules I remember the book of alos Huxley the uh the new world yeah the the new world and so should parents choose the colors of the eyes of their children or may whether they will be athletic or so there many ethical questions related to that same with artificial intelligence of course many ethical questions which are aggravated by the fact that usually those who have more power in some country or in the world uh can have more power to administrate these new technologies and that's that could be dangerous for Humanity so we need this ethical rules that's the first point the second point is to use science uh to break the walls of prejudice the walls of war and and I have some examples of that one example was in Brazil uh during a time in which the was a military dictatorship in Brazil and another one in Argentina and there were rumors which were actually uh noticed to be true afterwards that both countries were interested in developing nuclear arms okay there some secret projects and uh and uh and the Brazilian physical Society together with the Argentinian physical Society signed a memorandum saying that no physicist should be involved in those projects and uh and really it was a very strong document saying that you know people who get involved in that will not be supported by our associations okay and that was the end of it that was the end of it so I think that's also the responsibility of scientists and the second example I would like to give is you know I was I am a member of the World Academy of Sciences which was founded by Abdul Salam the same person who founded y as s mentioned and T has a very interesting work towards developing countries and it has a program together with the interacademy partnership which is called science in Exile in a world in war that's a very interesting and important responsibility of scientists to help our fellow scientists who are in this countries on war and in fact to us IEP the National academical Science in the United States help these people help to relocate these people in other places and I think that's our responsibility too uh to go through these walls of prejudice and even be able to talk and do science which is a universal language with people on the other side of the wall please I have a comment on that this is this is so exciting and interesting because um especially receiving the Nobel Prize then um people treat me and other Noel Prize winners as oracles and also people who can push in politics and that's dangerous because I'm not trained in politics but I have a good heart uh so to to find the balance where should I involve myself and where should I not involve myself I know I'm a good scientist and I'm not ashamed to say that but I'm not a good politician because I have no clue about politics still when people ask especially now with the war in Ukraine um I was asked can you please become the Ambassador for Science and um education in Ukraine and that I said yes because that that is my field and and of course when people are in war then that they're desperate for more knowledge and education they need to to live their daily lives with support so but it's it's so difficult to find this balance what is my responsibility can I just lock myself in my lab and enjoy life yeah it's it's such a complicated question but what's so good is that the two of you are talking about it now and that's so important just to raise the conversation raise the idea I must I would like very much to bring in our young scientist contributors so if they can join me on stage we have three young scientists uh Luchia delv from Chile eloisa patano from Brazil and Isaac Diaz from Costa Rica please hi thank you very much indeed great so um I think it's not sorry why don't you start I can introduce you and oh we're working again we held a lovely project with with with the with with with the Brazilian Academy of Sciences and the inter interamerican network ofies of Sciences we held a lovely project during the pandemic when we brought um young scientists from all over Latin America and the Caribbean together with laurates virtually and it's so nice to have three of those participants here in person to continue the conversation the floor is yours um who wants to go first um well I can start good it's like I said it's really nice to be here in person like when we had the conversation back then in 2021 we had like one hour 1 hour and a half conversations and to have a longer dialogue here in the Nova dialogue it's a really special opportunity and we were all like since today early talking about science and it's really nice to be in this environment where people are discussing it and also discussing how to get it to people who are not discussing science right thank you very much indeed so we don't do you have questions or comments on this question responsibilities yeah I I think I have one ER regarding responsibilities because I believe I heard H may say that it's important to embrace having different uh people coming for example for your to your love and accepting that some people can know more than one about all other topics um I think I would like to know how would you balance between knowing about a lot of topics to be responsible of a lot of things that what you were saying just before we got in here and for example getting someone different for example from communication to um help for example your love to um spread the word about your your findings or something like the balance between my responsibility as a scientist to H H take care of the diffusion of my findings for example but also to be responsible of having some people that really uh knows and are like uh formed in that that field for example in theion of science or thank you should I answer already thank you for that question so uh and and and thank you for repeating what I said that I'm I'm not afraid of uh or Edward and I since we share the lab Edward Moser we are not afraid to get people to the lab who know so much more than ourselves in mathematics or computer modeling or in molecular biology or whatever but we we need a general knowledge so that we know that these people don't go wild because it's our responsibility yeah that the work that is going out of the lab that we understand even though we don't understand all the details we couldn't make a model but we understand the value and we can discuss the model and discuss the paramet letters and and all these things so so that's one thing so we we have to learn fast to follow the people in our lab that's one thing and the second thing is uh absolutely communication so we have um uh a communication dep Department in in our Institute and we try to work with with them to um to facilitate the way we can communicate our science because we live on people's tax money that they pay to the government and then we have to pay back and then we need help to um to enrich the brains of the people who are paying MH thank you m Isaac did you want to jump in yeah I think that this um matter of science communication is even something uh that we should think about as a public Affair responsibility we're working with uh money from the states and we have a responsibility to share that to the society and I think that maybe it's this science communication topic is something that people um are bard of hearing now we've talked about that a lot but I think it should be it should be thinking a different perspective um so science communication um shouldn't be think we shouldn't be thinking about it in in a way um that is just limited to sharing certain Concepts like the structure of DNA or scientific method or even if whether uh vaccines cause autism or not but uh we should it doesn't it doesn't but uh we should think about it as um how the different cultures and societies explain the world understanding the meaning making factor of scientific communication we can then tap into how important it it is as a tool uh to tap into to the identities and imaginations of the different societies um that way we can get further into what we share and we can get uh all those little things we get excited about uh that could be ridiculous sometimes to the general public and let them know what we're doing and let them uh be a little bit more engaged with what we want to say what we do and um make them understand that um this is not resch to an lead um whether it's intellectual or socioeconomic uh it concerns them too yep beautifully said could I just comment on some very very short thing here because uh I was in Costa Rica uh doing a conference with jury Baki about time and uh we discussed how how do you communicate time and then uh we who uh read from left to right we think time from left to right but if you make these Comics you can turn it upside down and then from for people who read from right to left then it makes sense and that was such an eye opener for me of course I knew it but but to to know the person you communicate with how that person is thinking and perceiving the word is so important sorry L thank you very good thank you and you know you you mention something very important because it's not just the question of communicating what we know for the people but you mentioned we should listen to the different cultures and the different people who are in a country and of course as you have noticed from today's uh opening of the conference uh Brazil is an amazing place with a diversity of cultures and many Latin American countries have this wealth as well so I think you know we as scientists should also listen and what does that mean specifically in Brazil well you know this is also a theme for uh the next session on what Society can do for science but anyway I'll start here because it's related to what you have just said and very well said okay so uh you know I do believe that big wealth in Brazil is our biodiversity which by the way part of it is being destroyed by all competi I economic competition biodiversity and you know there are people in Brazil who know a lot about diversity they know a lot a lot about plants that may have some medical uh uh benefit they know about the forest how to keep the forest up a lot these are the indigenous people okay so you know we should also listen to them we should also listen to them and I should tell you that you know I'm very proud of that when I was president of the brazilan acad of Sciences we have a category of of members which are called uh it's like corresponding members but it's we call them collaborators people who have done lots of things for science but they're not scientists and the most recent collaborator of the Brazilian Academy of Sciences is is David uh David uh Kau that that he he's a sh chief h of the Yanomami tribe uh Davi was the name given to him by the missionaries who were there but when they get to be teenagers they can choose a name and he chose kopenawa why because kopenawa is the name of of a wasp in the region which is horrible you know it's like a warrior and so he chose his name and then the Brazilian government wanted them to register so all of them register as a family name Yanomami so he's the Yanomami now he wrote a book book his book is translated into French and English and Portuguese of course and the title of the book is the fall of the sky he talked about this book in Harvard with an interpreter and also in the British Parliament he and this book is about their myths and one of their myths is that you know uh if the taller trees in the forest fall or a cut the sky falls on the Earth and when the sky falls on the earth the water in the rivers goes to the Center of the Earth so everything dries out we talk nowadays about climate change they were talking about that 1,000 years ago okay so you know I just want to make this comment because you know that's it we should convey what we know and we know science but beyond science there is knowledge knowledge is different from science and we should listen to the knowledge because the knowledge could be the input for new science for instance for the science of biodiversity thank you please and I also think that we can get this knowledge from people who know more about us who are not in science and we can also um make science more accessible so that some of these people can become scientists and help create scientists and transform this knowledge and continuing research and I think this talks a bit um it touches a bit on the topic of diversity that we talked in the morning in other pan and it's a really important topic to me and I wanted to discuss a bit as well about like diversity because like we talked in the morning it's everyone's responsibility to promote and and look for and seek diversity and seek this different inputs to create science to make science even more inclusive diverse and better and how can scientists because I believe scientists can also do that help this as well because if each person of us can do a bit to make it science more inclusive then what can science scientists do what can we do in our jobs that includes more people that is more sensitive to someone's needs whether uh they are like from different like racial or economic or other kinds of of of backgrounds and how can we include those people so that they can come into this research and we can then also make science have more kinds of inputs to be able to move forward and create progress do you want to do you want to it's a it's a question for everybody in the audience but it's a my do you want to have a quick so so I almost felt like sending the question back but uh it's it's it's it's extremely important but uh so difficult um but um it's it's also um about um respect for questions so I think if you start with children all children that I know about at least and I think it's in general um are curious yeah and with curiosity there are questions and then we adults when we are approach with questions we get nervous and then when we we get nervous we don't have an answer and if we don't have an answer either you are honest and say oh I have no clue but we can go together and check we can discuss and maybe we can find a good answer that is okay or we can become arrogant why do you ask such a stupid question and and you know when children are met with arrogance from adults who are afraid to show that they don't know the answer that is killing curiosity and we need people to be curious because if we allow people to be curious and to ask questions and explore the questions together with people then I think maybe that can help to include more people and and especially to to to to work with the young ones I don't know if that was a good answer I don't think there is a right and wrong answer I think there's only efforts that we all can do exactly but just taking that point about the difficulty of answering questions from children and changing children to politicians you two are in in the position of power in that you sp you both speak to politicians they they seek your advice and they of course want clear answers when often clear answers are not available so where does where does the responsibility of scientists lie when you're talking to people who are Desperately Seeking answers like politicians how do you how do you address that very briefly because L okay I don't know if you would like to start because you told me a story but I can do it FAS okay so I I was I was I was I was very lucky a week ago then um the Norwegian Academy invited the priv Minister the science Minister and somebody else and Edward and I we we were allowed to sit like this the Prime Minister was sitting there with his crew and writing when we were answering questions and that was it felt really good because then we could have a good discussion and they were listening uh I and then afterwards we had a dinner where uh they said no journalist will report and then we had an even better discussion what do scientists or science need in Norway so it was a good fun but I know you have both good and bad experience with politics true sure you know I've been I was president of the Brazilian Academy of Science for two mandates and I was very happy that I was my that was succeeded by Elena Nader the first woman president of the Brazilian acad science since the foundation of the academy what 170 or 108 years ago now uh I would say that uh while President of Brazilian Academy especially in the last uh period uh uh I had one crisis a day at least and uh we had to tell people that uh they should take the vaccine against covid you know things that I never imagined that I I would be saying that that that was important uh that uh you know I just saw the other day there was a research in the United States and I think that's even more true in other countries you know the percentage of people in the United States who believe three things that the Earth is flat that the moon landing was fake and that vaccines inject microchips in your body nanot techn 10% 10% of the people believe that okay 10% of 300 Millions well you make the calculation okay so how do you fight against that I think it's our responsibility to do that to clarify the people to about what science says about it but it's very difficult to do it and what what I learned as president of Brazilian academi sciences that you just you don't need just right biologists or physicists you need social science for that you need Psychology for that you need to calm people C people down and you but you need also to understand why they are doing that why they are getting aggregating around this question so that's a very important mission for science to understand social science thank you very yeah thank you we have limited time I really want to get just a very few qu comments from the audience is there anything burning that you need to say before we move on you're allowed to you're but it has to be very short I I was wondering because yesterday with Eloise we were talking about um how this curiosity that you can see really clearly in children it's like dying with with the years you know you start really curious about the world because you don't know nothing about the world and you really want to explore and everything and that seems to shut down as the years go by and we wanted to know like how why and how can we prevent that that's a question for the neuroscientist mybr have you have you solved that yet yeah no as I said uh first of all the children have to feel safe because if they're not safe they are afraid and they're not calm and if you are not calm it's very difficult to learn and uh and then as I said to respect all the questions so I wanted to comment on that we we made sort of a a a a joke of people who believe that that and that I I'm sorry I'm saying it like this and and even though we don't believe that the Earth is flat and so on that's fine that some people believe it but but then we should try to respect and understand where does it come from from that they believe that Earth is is flat and and and if we if we understand that maybe there is a chance to to to to increase curiosity why do you believe that it's round and and then we can have discussion and the scary thing now is that since we are fed with information that suits our views I'm never or almost never exposed to Flat Earth but if we are exposed to Flat Earth more and more and more so so it's so polarized and we need to to talk across these borders I think but how to do that I have no clue thank you very much indeed okay but we've talked about a lot but there's a lot there are a lot of other things to talk about under responsibilities please let's i' i' just love to have people make quick comments or or or or questions just maybe introducing us to some responsibilities we haven't thought about yet go ahead please quickly in in in English or Portuguese if it's Portuguese we'll have to have it translated yes [Music] please for [Music] [Music] [Music] I have to I have to stop you we have to be really short has has the point been made yet I'm sorry to be so stupid not to understand can I translate please yes uh so I'm going to summarize a bit she asking about U neurod divergency and if in the lab we have neur Divergent people and how can we include those people as well I think that's a bit of the question sure yeah okay thank you that that's good cuz we Haven got much time yeah how can we include neurod Divergent people again you're the psychologist my Brit can you so so say say the question neurod Divergent people how do we include be more inclusive of neurod Divergent people so just to include all all kinds of people or yeah those who are particularly neurod Divergent yeah particular people who have uh different like they have special needs or disabilities mean yeah but not necessarily like depends on how we do it she deals with people like that okay now so you know I had a a a very eye openening uh experience when I was teaching psychology students and I typically would stand there and point and say look here look here look here and then there was a student in the class and say I don't see can you please explain and then I was so ashamed that I didn't understand but then she taught me think that I should think about that not everybody can see what I can see but still I can tell what I see to her and to others so I agree that we we we we just have to be more aware of how like you said also how how other people are thinking so that we can communicate in a good way thank you very much indeed please yes in English or Portuguese English thank you uh my name is maciu I'm social science from here W and I'm very difficult question bioethic bioethic bio about ER Plus uh sheep in the brain in know artificial intelligence and microchips in the brain and than sorry do you what the ethics around enhancement of humans broadly um the responsibility of scientists regarding experiments that are um hypothetical at the moment but will become reality very very briefly Louis so so it's it's a brilliant question and uh I think like you said we have the responsibility to be ethical and if like hearing imp plants if you can help people to hear who didn't hear that's important and if you if you put a chip in the hpoc compus it doesn't have you you might be able to load new memories but you can't load the old memories so do what could help people but don't do what would uh make it worse L yeah you know this goes beyond that we are worried about ships in the brain now technology biology now has the possibility of intervening into the DNA of people that's curing diseases that are considered not curable a while ago like for instance CLE cell anemia okay uh some kinds of uh children's uh lack of vision for instance okay and that's great but you know as this evolves these questions will come up up to what point should we go to change uh the present human species which by the way was selected along a long history so and what what the very very briefly what's the best way of answering that question how far should we go who should answer the question I think the best way is you know we have an example of that the people who discover this this DNA intervention the so-called our technology uh they have held many conferences worldwide on ethics and I think that should be discussed not just among scientists but scientists and other people in the society and that's a discussion we must have that's new that's something new that's happening and we are not going to solve that without discussion involving many people not you know from top down but from down to top thank you very much indeed I'm going to let you all three of you come in again very briefly at the end last comments so y I'm KRA from Val University and I'm a medicine doctor and not a PhD doctor yet but I will be there one day so H I'm also a volunteer on headqu Brazilian society and I would like to know H what's about the the importance of volunteer work as science thank you as human beings not just as science that's a very good that's a very good point scientist is human beings the importance of volunteering doing stuff other than being the expert in the science in a way you're needed for your science do you have time do scientists have time to do to be human no but uh so so I I think it's important that people do what they're good at so that is what I said yes to be the ambassador for Science and education in Ukraine because that I can do but to go in the field and repair wounds like a doctor like you can do I can't so then that is not the way for me to to do that but of course there's a limit so I I I need to to put the forces into what I'm good at and then also at voluntary work giving lectures for example thank you I might I might jump on to the next question guy in white and could then when you finish could you give it to the lady in green behind you go please oh sorry hi my name is Victor I'm a medical student here at this University and a researcher here as well I have two questions the first one is why do you think are what do you think are the biggest Medical Science challenges today and the second one is what advice would you give to your younger regarding responsibility I think I might the first one is so big could you pass it to the green lady in green behind you sorry um thank you the first one is so big maybe we can have time for that later in different panels what what advice would you give to yourself regarding responsibility of scientists that's a very challenging question it is yes okay very Lise and then Margaret what advice would you give to yourself well you know I don't know I I'm not sure I understood the question could you repeat it what advice would you give to yourself regarding the responsibilities of scientists I suppose what have you what do you wish you'd done different or do different as a young one no it can be now anytime anytime what advice to anybody no to yourself oh to my okay that's very good question very good question it's a very good question I think you know it's it's a it's a difficult situation for uh the employee of time I would say but I have done this I have some experience in that and what I will tell myself is that I should continue to do that in other words should try to do good science be in the lab I mean I'm a theoretical physicist so my lab is a computer eventually notebook uh because that's part of me uh and at the same time uh uh do volunteer work like it was mentioned not necessarily in the forest but in the cities in the country in support for Science and I think I should continue to do that thank you my very briefly I would like to hear from the three instead okay good that's the question for you that we're going to finish on I'm just going to hear from this lady in green yeah please and I would like to know H especially to David H how can we as students and the university can support the diverse people that are in science how can the univer how can how can we support and the people like the all genders and races and all classes how can they can stay in science the question is yeah it's one that keeps coming up throughout the day how do universities nurture the most diverse possible group of people and could we have a like a 10-second answer well look at basic education start with basic education that's the main problem in Brazil right now that's it start there that's a good point okay you three you you end with a very you got like 15 seconds each what advice would you give to yourself regarding responsibility having listened to this and having thought about it I I think I have an idea and in just one word I think is curiosity to keep being curious is what I would do like advise myself to stay curious don't forget what yeah you know we go around all around the world talking to young people with Nobel laics and I often feel that the main task we have is to remind young scientists why they got into science in the first place not to become too bogged down in their career and their publication blah but just yeah so I think it's agree I am very worried about making the places that we do science in inclusive to all people so that all people can feel represented but also that they can feel well when they are doing science like when you are working in a lab you want that to be a safe environment like mayber was saying in schools and we may think about schools I think it's like I said the basic education is such a big problem and we have to create a safe environment for kids kids but also for adults who are in science we have have to make a safe environment for that like the question that we had about neurod divergency we have to make a safe space for autistic people for hdhd people for OCD people for gifted people and a lot of other differences that we have among the population and my main concern is that we we are falling short on that and we have to work better to improve the way we deal with those things thank you very much indeed Isaac lwood um I I think that my advice to everyone and to my younger self is probably following what may said earlier is it is leaving arrogance behind we need to understand that we don't know anything and probably we can learn more from the people on the street than uh from people we can find here we don't know anything we have to be humble and understand that there are different kind of knowledge with different kinds of knowledge and um that openness to hearing people can makes us better professionals and humans thank you very much indeed I love the idea that you have to give advice to your younger self you seem pretty young to me already I feel but probably most got life sorted out more than I have I'm still needing to give myself advice all the time anyway I I I wish we could continue we've gone over time which is not good for me especially so we need to stop but um and get ready for the next panel but thank you all very much indeed and thank you audience and I'm sorry we didn't have time for more questions than

Channel: Nobel Prize

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Id: C9B6VLAyols

Length: 46min 40sec (2800 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 24 2024