Today I am privileged to
chat with Rebecca Romijn, A.K.A. the Enterprise's
Illyrian first officer, Una-Chin Riley, about
her time on the stand. We cross examine the courtroom
drama from this week's episode and
we research the evolution of Augments in Star Trek
history. Join me in The Ready Room
for all that and more. Hey nerds! I'm Wil Wheaton
and this is The Ready Room, your official behind-the-scenes
hub for all things Star Trek
Universe. This week's episode,
"Ad Astra Per Aspera", sees Una-Chin Riley face
a Starfleet tribunal for hiding her true identity. To help you avoid your own court
martial, I am calling for a red alert! We'll be discussing the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth from this episode and that will include spoilers. So, if you haven't seen it yet, sequester yourself with
your favorite screen, stream it together, and come
back here to The Ready Room to hear all
about it. I am so happy to be sitting
down with Rebecca Romijn, who plays Commander Una-Chin
Riley to talk with her about Una's grueling trial and
the important ways oppression and privilege show up in
the Star Trek Universe. Of course, Una isn't the only
Augment we've seen in Star Trek. From Khan Noonien Singh to
Dr. Julian Bashir to Dal R'El, there have been several
genetically enhanced characters throughout Star Trek's history. A little later we'll take a
closer look at these Augments and what makes them all so
memorable. But before any of that,
in this week's episode, Number One experiences the
trial of her life, literally. The legal and moral arguments
represent the very heart of Star Trek and serve as a
mirror for our modern society. Here's a look at Star Trek's
dramatic courtroom legacy and everything that went into
creating this compelling episode. Control Room? Engage! The Federation's stance on
genetic engineering is clear. The practice is dangerous and
illegal. We'd talked about doing
a courtroom episode. From the very beginning,
some of the best episodes of Star Trek have been courtroom
episodes. One of the ones that always
comes up is the "Court Martial"
from The Original Series, but also "Measure Of
A Man", a TNG episode, where Data is put on trial
because there is a scientist who wants to take him apart
and he makes the argument that Data is not a person, but an object that is owned by
Starfleet. Our show is fundamentally
optimistic, but if you even look at TOS, Starfleet isn't always in the
right. I don't think that it is
against the mission statement of Star Trek to have to
wrestle with the government that you work under, and that's
something that a courtroom episode is
perfect for. One of the things that we
did in Episode 3 of Season 1 was to reveal that Una is from a
species called the Illyrians, who
genetically modify themselves as a cultural practice, as a
reaction to the environments that they are in. My people were never
motivated by domination. Illyrians seek collaboration
with nature. At the beginning of Season
2, Una is in prison, awaiting her trial. She got sent to prison
at the end of Season 1 for lying to Starfleet
about being an Illyrian. Initially, and it's said in
Season 1, that if Una's identity as
an Illyrian ever came up, that Pike welcomed that
conversation with Starfleet
brass. You let me worry about
Starfleet. Unfortunately, he's found that
it's not gonna be a conversation,
it's going to be a trial, and so he has to employ
every trick in the book to try to get her out of the
situation and that begins with finding
the right lawyer, Neera. I knew you were stubborn, I just didn't think you were
stupid. We felt like the metaphor
shouldn't just be about Rebecca. We wanted to tell sort of a
deeper story about the whole culture
that she came from. This idea came out that we
should find someone from her
past who might help to express the
challenges of being Illyrian and we had an opportunity
to cast Yetide Badaki to play her lawyer. My client is only here
because of who she is and because she felt
she had no other choice than to hide that fact, just
like the millions before her who were forced to hide
how they worshiped, how they loved, what
they truly looked like because it made others
uncomfortable. The trial episode, we
went to the Discovery set and we saw the Federation bridge and we were very inspired by
that. So, it's not strictly a canon
approach, we just love this big space. We were arguing that this
layout was a Starfleet standard and it was repeated on Earth
at Starfleet in San Francisco. There was a great big window
to look out over Starfleet. The courtroom itself,
I brought in elements of rosewood paneling and
that darkened the set down. Then I was inspired by
the U.S. Supreme Court, which has these huge, freeze
panels running around it. And I thought that would be
great fun to have alien judiciary. So then we had these
beautiful sculptures done. They were all carved by hand. The one canon thing we did
do from the TOS episode, called "Court Martial", they had
a chair with a circular panel that lit
up and you put your hand on
it to identify yourself, probably like a lie detector as
well. We thought, "We have to have
that." So the combination of the
view out over Starfleet, the rosewood paneling,
and the gold elements were all new, non-canon
elements, but it made it feel like a
courtroom, I like to think. [Javas] We grant the
defendant's request for asylum and find Una-Chin Riley not
guilty. I think Una feels vindicated
by the decision, of course. It's mostly relief because
she loves Starfleet so much and now her secret is finally
out and there's a big weight
lifted from her shoulders. But I think she wishes she could
have done more for her people. It's a little bit bittersweet,
but yes, definite vindication. It's arguably my favorite
episode of the season because it takes today's issues and puts a science fiction lens
on them that allowed a resonance
to echo into today. And I think the performances
in it are extraordinary, and I think the storytelling
is solidly exactly what it needs to be,
which is to sort of say, question how you see the world, look and see whether you
are making people other. But also don't try to tell a
story where, because you see that,
there's a happy ending. Just seeing it is the
beginning of the happy ending that's coming much later. Today, I am joined by the first
officer of the Enterprise, Rebecca
Romijn. Rebecca, it is so great to see
you. Thank you so much for being here
today! Thanks for having me. It's Season 2 of Strange New
Worlds! This is so exciting! So exciting! The fan reaction and the
critical acclaim for Season 1 was intense. Tell me about your year. Are you overwhelmed? Are you
excited? Like, tell me just about this, -living with this response.
-All of it! It's been a whirlwind. I'm so thrilled with
the reaction to Season 1 and we're extremely proud of
Season 2 and can't wait to share it with
everyone, so, you know, here we go. At the end of Season 1, Una was
arrested for living as her authentic
self, which is, unfortunately, extremely timely in America
right now. Tell me how the end of last
season sets up Una's journey in Season
2. Well, I've had a lot of fans
asking if I'm in Season 2. I think a lot of people assumed
that was the end of Una. Oh my goodness! Yeah, really! I had a lot of people
who legitimately wondered if I was gonna be back. And I've been able to tell
people that I did, in fact, shoot a Season 2, I just
couldn't share anything about it yet, so finally we're
here and we get to talk about it because it's been really
thrilling. But yes, Una was busted for
finally living authentically and seeking asylum on the
Enterprise. And, obviously, Captain Pike
has been covering for her and they carted her off
and it sets up Season 2, where she feels like
there's only one person that could possibly get
her out of this mess, who happens to be an attorney
and an old friend of Una's who's also an Illyrian. Una needs your help. Starfleet Command found
out that she's Illyrian. Yes, Mr. Pike. I am
familiar with her case. The episode is really an
emotional rollercoaster, but you got to do this thing that I think is really
wonderful. Star Trek has this gorgeous
history of putting humanity on trial through putting
its characters on trial. We've done it with "The Measure
of a Man", "The Menagerie", "Matter of
Perspective". You got to join this particular
piece of Star Trek's legacy, being on trial and, as I said, being on trial for living
authentically. Talk to me about that and what
that means. It was an incredibly
well-written episode. It was really an honor to
be a part of one of those, of that legacy of courtroom
episodes that they have, that Star Trek has. Akiva Goldsman himself really
took care with a lot of the dialogue. There were specific pieces
of dialogue in Episode 2 that were very meaningful
to a lot of people. Slavery was once legal,
apartheid was legal, discrimination against people
for how they worshiped, how they loved, their
gender, color of their skin, all legal at one time or
another. A law does not make something
just. I'm a first-generation American, my husband is a first-generation
American. I love immigrant stories. They hold a very special
place in my heart. My mother was taught
English as a second language to adult immigrants and refugees and really has always
supported immigration reform and taught me about
this country ultimately being a true melting pot,
which was built on the backs of immigrants and will always be
that. And so I've always carried that
with me. A lot of it held very deep
meaning for me. Did you feel that this brought
you closer to Una's backstory? Do you feel like this maybe
gave you a deeper connection to her childhood or was that
already there and this just sort of codified
it? It made me more connected
to Una's gumption because Una knew, I think,
no, I've always said that nobody loves Starfleet more
than Una and she knew that she would
never be legally allowed to be a part of Starfleet, but she knew that that's where
she had to, she was gonna get there,
come hell or high water. So I appreciate her chasing
her dreams the way she did. And I think Una is as big of
a dreamer as we've ever had, you know, within the Star Trek
world. So she, I think it really killed
her. I think she carried a lot of
pain and a lot of guilt joining
Starfleet and breaking the rules the way
she did. It was fascinating to watch this
discovery of Una being, not just Illyrian,
but within her own species, actually kind of holding
a place of privilege because she can pass, right? -Right.
-And that's had a huge impact on her life. Would you talk a little
bit about the nuance of playing a character
who's, like, under attack for something that she did not
choose, but has historically lived a
little more privileged life than her fellow Illyrians? Yes, she was protected as a
child. She was passable in public for,
you know, she could pass as non-Illyrian. But I think what it finally
boiled down to for Una was, which I think people
who have been persecuted for whatever reason,
religiously, sexually, racially, you shouldn't have to hide. Just because you can hide
doesn't mean you should. Starfleet is asking me to
hide again so that no one has to know an Illyrian climbed
the ranks of Starfleet. I shouldn't have to hide
anymore, none of us should. I think that a lot of people, when you finally are true to
yourself, don't wanna hide anymore. It's related to another
character that I played in another massive
franchise, who was a mutant, who could turn into whoever
she wanted to turn into and ultimately she also didn't
wanna hide. She wanted to be who
she authentically was. So it's funny that I
kind of keep gravitating towards characters that keep
finding this at the end of the road that, you
know, just because you can hide
doesn't mean you should hide. The experiences that
your characters have had, being treated as outsiders,
being treated as others, do they reflect at all
any of your experiences as a first-generation American
immigrant? My dad came here and worked his
way up from absolutely nothing,
and there's a work ethic that I learned from being the
daughter of an immigrant that I carry
with me. And there's a sense of
pride within that work ethic that I carry with me. And I, you know, we grew up with
no money. I didn't have, there was
nobody in my family before me that was in show business. I did this completely alone. I'm a first-generation
actress as well, but it's, yeah, I think I got that
from being the daughter of an immigrant, that same
kind of gumption that Una has. Throughout Star Trek's history, the thing that's always
set Star Trek apart from other genre science
fiction is that it really leans into the hope we have for
utopian future. But there are occasionally
episodes like this where we hold up a mirror
to ourselves, today, and see where we aren't quite
there yet and we really have to focus on
the work that we need to do. This episode sort of holds
up a mirror to the Federation in the future of Star Trek
and exposes some of its flaws. Would you talk a little bit
about that? I always think the Federation is kind of an analogy for our
country, for the United States of
America. And as Una says in the episode, she knows the Federation isn't
perfect, but she thinks it could be. I think that's how we, that's
how a lot of us feel about our country. It's not perfect, but it could
be. We do still live with prejudice, we do still live with
persecution. That's, you know, that's
the reality of humanity, in a lot of ways, and it's
something that we'll probably have to
live with for a very long time. It's interesting
reflecting on what happens in our country and also in
our world and what we see on a day-to-day basis
and then how it plays out in the Trek world and in
Federation. In this episode, Una has a
lawyer who is also Illyrian, but has, like, all kinds of beef
with her, which adds to that
nuance of sort of, like, the diversity of
Illyrian-lived experiences, the reality that Una's
experience was privileged. I just would love for
you to talk about working with Yetide Badaki, who
absolutely killed it -as Una's lawyer, Neera.
-Killed it! [Wil] Ah, amazing! Yetide Badaki is, she's just a
genius. And I also would be remiss to
not mention our genius director, Valerie
Weiss. The three of us just
kept coming to the table and it was like a transcendent
experience, really. We had just these moments with
each other that were just like, other
level. And watching Yetide work was
amazing. She's just, the episode
wouldn't be what it is without Yetide. I can't, and I just kept
announcing that we definitely need
Neera in the future. We need Neera to handle a
lot of cases in the future. Like, I don't ever want to
let Yetide go from our show. She's just so good and
she is also such a lover of all things Trek. It was amazing having her on
set, spouting off information
that I didn't know. I was like, "Gosh, how
do you know all this?" I mean, she really has
grown up all things Trek. Isn't it the coolest thing
to be part of something and these phenomenal actors
not only want to be there, but they come in, they put on
a masterclass in front of us, and they're people who like, they could choose
anything and they're like, "No, but Star Trek's what I
wanted." Seriously, every time she
would blow my mind, I would go, "Yetide, where did you come
from?" She just was so impressive on
every level. In this episode, Captain
Pike risks his entire career to protect Una, which, it would
be weird if he had not done that
based on what we know about him at this point in his
story, in the story of their
relationship. Tell me a little bit
about their relationship and particularly why Pike is
really just absolutely willing to go to the wall for her. It just speaks volumes,
just speaks volumes to the level of trust
they have with each other, the level of admiration
they share for one another, the fact that he was able
to provide asylum for her, the level of guilt she
feels by putting him at risk that way, but,
ultimately, old friends, you
know? I feel that there's so much
unspoken between these two characters. Like, I get the sense that you
and Anson must just really, really
enjoy being on set together. We do, we really enjoy those
scenes. There's a groundedness there
with every, I feel like we offer each
other a real groundedness whenever it's just,
you know, a two-hander, when it's just the two of us. I mean, in all of our scenes
together. But when it's just the
two of us, it's just, it feels very grounded. He's a delight to work with. The two of you are like
a really great battery in the World Series. Like, I couldn't tell
you who's the pitcher, but like just the two, the way
the two of you work together, I really enjoy watching
that go back and forth -between the two of you.
-Thank you. We learned in Season
1 that Una saved La'An and helped her get asylum
within the Federation. And then in the trial,
this comes back full circle as it forms the argument
that wins Una her freedom. Would you talk about the
significance of that role
reversal? La'An was really a protege for
Una and Una has always been
very protective of her. We saw that in the first season. Una has, you know, maintained
a relationship with La'An where La'An came and went to bat
for Una when Una really needed her. And it comes back to family,
as La'an says in the episode. I love this message and this
inspiration to the audience that
we trust these people, we rely on these people, like,
we have each other's backs. That's, like, such a fundamental
part of the Starfleet mission
and the Starfleet story. It is the only way it
works when you're on set with other actors, you
cannot pull off performances with people that you don't
trust. That's right. I really see it flowing among
all of you and this leads me into my next
question. This episode is just filled with incredibly strong female
leadership and I am just, I'm very
excited for what this is doing for girls today. The
example -that you are setting--
-Yes! For girls today. It's amazing. You have talked about watching
Star Trek with your mom, you've talked about being
inspired by Nichelle Nichols and the other powerful,
assertive women in the Star Trek world. Tell me about filling that role
now for the next generation. Well, I have 14-year-old
daughters. I mean, it continues
and I really appreciate taking roles and especially this
role that they can appreciate. Like I said, I'm the
daughter of an immigrant, my husband is the son of an
immigrant, my mom worked a lot with adult
immigrants and I've actually been
re-admiring the poem on the Statue of Liberty, which
is, "Give us your tired and your
poor, your huddled masses
yearning to breathe free." That's what Starfleet
is. I connect with that. I connect with that in a,
"We'll take care of you." It's, a feminine thing. It's
motherly. My kids don't watch my work,
not even on Big Bang Theory. -Do your girls watch you?
-What? -Yeah, they never did.
-Yes, they do! They're just like,
yeah, they're just like, "It's weird seeing you on TV." I don't, it's just, it's
weird for them, right? Like, I'm a guy in their house and now I'm a character on their
TV. It's weird for them, but
your girls watch you. So, you know, when you are
leading by example for the
world, you're also leading by
example for your girls. How cool is that? Yes, it's very close to home for
me! It's also, you know, if
I've got a job that takes me on location for several
months out of the year where they don't get to see
me on a day-to-day basis, I want them to show what, you
know, I wanna be them to be able
to see what I've been doing while I've been gone and be
proud of it. Oh, I love that, I love that. Last question. We are only two episodes
into the new season and it's already incredible. Let's play a fun game. In three words, describe for me what's coming up this season.
Go. Just you wait, just you wait! I love that. I love that! Yeah, that's it. That's all I
got for you. Expect the unexpected. All right, nerds, you heard it. Just you wait and expect the
unexpected. Rebecca, thank you so
much for being here today. -Thanks, Wil!
-When you see your husband, please give him a big
hug and a kiss for me. I will do. All right, thank you. Bye, thanks. Ever since the Star Trek:
The Original Series episode, "Space Seed", the ethics
of genetic enhancement have been fiercely debated in
Star Trek. Augments have been known to
demonstrate superior physical and mental abilities in their
DNA, but at times they have proven to be aggressive and
power-hungry. For every decorated Starfleet
officer, like Una-Chin Riley or Julian Bashir, there
is a violent antagonist like Malik and, of course,
the authoritarian dictator, Khan Noonien Singh. In any case, we here in The
Ready Room have engineered a look at
the complicated history of Augments from throughout
the Star Trek Universe. Thank you for enduring my
dad joke. Please enjoy. I was so sick of living a lie, pretending to be someone I
wasn't. I wanted my crew, I wanted my crew to know
me for who I really was. I thought maybe if they
did, I would finally be safe and Starfleet would finally
understand Illyrians better. [Narrator] In Star
Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 2, Episode 2, "Ad Astra Per Aspera", the
Enterprise's first officer, Una-Chin Riley is put on trial for hiding her Illyrian
heritage and status as a genetically modified
Augment. This court is now in session. [Narrator] Carrying superior
intellectual and physical abilities,
Augments from various species, have used their enhancements
for positive purposes and, at times, to further
their authoritarian ambitions. Because of these potentially
violent instincts, Augments are forbidden
from joining Starfleet. Perhaps the most famous
or infamous Augment is the genetically engineered
human, Khan Noonien Singh. More than 200 years after
falling from his tyrannical
reign on earth during the global
Eugenics Wars, Khan encounters Captain Kirk
and the U.S.S. Enterprise. From 1992 through 1996,
absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world from Asia through the Middle
East. The last of the tyrants to be
overthrown. [Narrator] After failing
to take over the ship, Khan and his followers are
exiled to the remote planet, Ceti Alpha V, promising that
Captain Kirk will one day feel his wrath. 150 years after the Eugenics
Wars, a human augment named Malik
leads several of his fellow enhanced
siblings in a series of attacks on the Klingon
Empire. Torpedo's ready. Fire. [Narrator] His aggressive
actions are stopped by his
creator, Dr. Arik Soong, as well as Captain Archer and
the crew of the Enterprise NX-01. Keniclius 5, the
fifth-generation clone of Eugenics War geneticist
Dr. Stavos Keniclius, creates a genetically-enhanced
clone of Spock as the prototype for an
oppressive peacekeeping force. Spock and his clone convince
Keniclius 5 to give up his goals of
interstellar conquest and use his scientific knowledge
for good. I would be honored. [Narrator] When it's
revealed that Deep Space 9's Chief Medical Officer, -Julian Bashir
-That's me. [Narrator] Received genetic
modifications in his youth, enhancing his abilities in
everything from medicine to playing darts, he chooses to resign from
Starfleet. I just want to leave the station
quietly. [Narrator] However,
Bashir's father intervenes, agreeing to imprisonment for
illegally augmenting his son in order to save Julian's
Starfleet career. As Una-Chin Riley's court
martial lays bare the conflict between Augments and
Starfleet, Una demonstrates the best qualities of
both, helping move Augments like her to greater acceptance. She is an extraordinary officer. Now that Number One has been
reinstated, the Enterprise crew is ready
for their next mission, and I just happen to have
a preview of that mission with this exclusive clip
from next week's episode. [Computer] Shuttle bay
two-four. Main impact- Who are you? How did you get
aboard? Help! That's not from a phaser,
it's from a bullet. There's been an attack in the
past. You have to stop it. You need to get to the bridge. Captain, I need to talk to you. Ma'am, not to be impolite, but
who are you and what the hell are
you doing on my ship? Is it a confession to
say that I love Jim Kirk or more of a statement of fact? I leave it to you to decide. As always, thank you for
spending this time with me in the Ready Room and
I'm especially grateful to Rebecca Romijn for a
wonderful conversation. The Star Trek Universe is so
vast, inclusive, and
thought-provoking. I truly love being part of it. Next week, I'll be taking a deep
dive into Star Trek: Strange
New Worlds, Season 2, Episode 3, titled "Tomorrow
And Tomorrow And Tomorrow" with James T. Kirk actor, Paul
Wesley. Until then, I'm Wil Wheaton.
Live long and prosper.
