The Name "NACS" is Confusing and Problematic: Use SAE J3400 Instead

the big breakdown I think is people are conflating two very different issues and it's almost like one is overtaking the other uh and that that first is some automakers are negotiating for access to the superchargers and some are not and that is an issue in and of itself so Ford started that ball rolling then GM jumped in then rivian then Mercedes and now we have news that that Nissan is as well and that is confusing this issue because I think the other aspect is we're looking at a new CCS standard and I need to emphasize that it is not a new Tesla standard it's not a Tesla standard at all in fact in fact it is a new CCS standard that's incorporating j1772 and CCS protocols into the Tesla plug so essentially it's taking outside of chadimo every plug that we know in North America is basically all being Consolidated under a single standard some facet of that plug or standard is being applied and so the SAE is currently putting all of those together right to form this new plug standard and so that's why I say it's a very different issue than accessing the superchargers because that's a deal that automakers are cutting on the side and in fact GM's uh press release notes that they are doubling down on their focus on charging infrastructure for their EV owners and so what does that mean their number one partner is still evgo they're not dropping that partnership evgo is still building out hundreds and hundreds of those 350 kilowatt sites of the Flying J partnership is still going forward but in addition to that GM brokered a deal with Tesla to gain access to those 12 000 CCS compatible superchargers in North America and that's where I say this this breakdown is happening is there are 20 000 plus CCS or there are 20 000 plus supercharger stalls throughout North America 8 000 of them are the Tesla standard only those ones nobody's going to get access to they won't be magic doc we've talked about this before I think Steve maybe they'll get ripped out of the ground maybe they'll get converted to uh version 4 superchargers but in the meantime those 8 000 stalls are essentially Tesla only it's those 12 000 stalls that Ford GM rivian Mercedes Nissan are all um working with Tesla to gain access to so that's that's that issue and Hyundai is bulking uh Lucid is bulking right and why they're purely 800 volt architecture EV companies moving forward and the superchargers the V3 superchargers speaking to your experience Steve they just don't work well for egmp cars they don't work well for Lucid um they they work half well for the GMC Hummer EV right because it can it can toggle full on between 400 volt and 800 volt um but it that that's a separate issue right and everybody's looking at this as a huge Tesla win and I want I want to be clear about this skate too because I know some people would assume that I would be negative about this I think this is a net benefit and the more initially I was a little bit worried but the more I listened to Jim Farley the more I listen to Mary Barra RJ scaring these different CEOs from the different companies talking about this this is a net benefit for everyone now like you in the in the Hyundai ioniq 5 ionic six Kia ev6 all of those 800 volt car owners this is going to be limited benefit for you for the next two to three years not until uh Hyundai adopts the new SAE plug standard with this new Tesla plug and companies like evgo Electrify America charge points start deploying 800 volt uh Chargers with this new standard same with a same with the V4 superchargers so let me see if I can bring this up as uh as you talk keep on talking let me see yeah yeah so so that's that's I think how we want to make sure that we're looking at this we're framing these as two very very different issues right and I think part of what's confusing it is the name I think this nacs name frankly needs to go so initially I thought it could have been it could at least be construed as a potentially racist microaggression right because right now it's making people think that oh ccs1 isn't deployed in Asia it is it's deployed in parts of Asia ccs1 isn't deployed in South America it is it's deployed in parts of South America so to say this is the North American Standard is misleading right because I think what's happening is Tesla wants to tie it to their supercharger Network um and and that's where where it gets to be even if you say oh it wasn't an unintentional you know racist microaggression it still isn't clearly communicating what the standard actually is the standard is CCS being ported over to this new plug format but it is 100 interoperable with ccs so the video you're showing right now you're plugging in your your Hyundai ionic 5 into a V3 supercharger you can do that because V3 is bilingual and I think we have the European Union to thank for that frankly like I think they forced Tesla's hand Tesla in order to get Public Funding in Europe needed to adopt CCS they had no choice in the matter and so from that point forward their charges were all bilingual they they all spoke that can bus original still proprietary Tesla Supercharger lingo but then they also had to speak uh the CCS lingo so that makes it 100 interoperable with all CCS Vehicles literally all you need is a dummy adapter no no just a physical adapter just like these uh this old j1772 um to the Tesla plug adapters this is AC only so you'll see a lot of these around they're starting to make them for CCS right ccs1 because all that's required is a physical adapter unless that charging provider is creating some sort of a gateway to get in and that's what Tesla is still doing right we have to use the app to use that magic Dock and we have to kind of go through their system in order to interface with their Chargers but otherwise they are 100 interoperable with ccs so so you know with this I think moving forward that nacs standard name like I said it just doesn't make sense given what it's trying to communicate because I think frankly I think what Tesla is doing the reason those automakers who are brokering a deal with them to access the superchargers the reason Tesla is requiring their format plug in order for that deal to happen is because they want to tie that plug to their standard but it's not really it's just CCS you know and that's that's I think the thing that we all have to understand now that it's out of the gate now that that format is clear and free and open for everybody to use and they've already given uh basically within their documentation information stating that you can use DIN and ISO the 15118 standard the cat's out of the bag now now whoever wants whoever's running a CCS charger can literally just hook up that new plug standard to it and any CCS compatible vehicle can use that charger there there shouldn't I mean obviously there's reliability issues within the CCS networks interoperability issues within the CCS networks but in theory right as long as the charger is working properly and the car is working properly and they're both configured to CCS standards moving forward all we have is a single plug format standard now so like you said this is going to be the next year or two is the year of the adapter that's kind of true basically every every car built right now is going to need an adapter to use all the plugs at this point there's just unless you retrofit and pull all of those old ccs1 sockets out you're going to need an adapter um moving forward it's one standard so and they had uh the Sie were looking at doing that fast tracking it right by the end of the year so I mean it needs to be ready I would guess before the vehicles or at least well the adapters maybe not but certainly when the neighbors I mean technically it's already ready right I mean Tesla has already been using the j1772 standard for AC and so as far as that plug is concerned it's already ready for AC charging um the the only issue is on the automakers to insert a relay and a switch inside the car that switches between AC and DC um and then the CCS protocol the the iso 115 was it 15 8 whatever I'm going to run out of the numbers but um yeah all uh all of the uh um DIN and ISO Protocols are already integrated into the Tesla superchargers they already support Auto charge they already support all of these other features so it I feel like the the SAE homologation of the standard is super important especially from a safety perspective but I feel like it's mostly academic at this point like I I feel like everything is already in place and the only reason we're not able to use the superchargers right now with the basic CCS adapters because Tesla doesn't want us to and the only reason oh and and maybe this is an important point when I this this is probably the most important Point actually Steve so sorry I know you want to make sure um Tesla owners who do not have the power line communication module installed in their cars will not be able to use public Chargers with that nacs cable until they get that power line communication module installed so essentially if you cannot use the ccs1 adapter in your Tesla right now you will not be able to use an nacs and this is why I said I I I'm kind of concerned about the naming convention and how it's being presented as being confusing because I don't think a lot of Tesla owners realize that if they roll up to an evgo charging station if they couldn't use that evgo charging station with the CCS adapter they're not going to be able to use an nacs and yes they evgo does still have their 50 kilowatt chatimo adapters that's technically the Tesla standard which is not the nacs standard right so that's the old canvas standard converted from chadamo you you could use that but you're not going to be able to use a 350 kilowatt CCS evgo charger with a new Tesla plug on it until you get that power line communication module installed into your car and from what I've heard from Tesla owners that's kind of slow going and not a lot of people have that yet so that's a and that's a big factor that I think has been missing from this discussion um because I guess everybody just assumes that people will only ever want to use the superchargers moving forward so and I think that's I think that's a mistaken assumption so yeah well especially you know some of the as you get more into more different charging propositions with like the rivian kind of network going to you know places that hopefully others won't because they want to hit those more kind of remote locations you're going to want those charging networks to you know have access to them all because you know if that's the only option or it's the best option in that place then that will still be better than the supercharger that's 100 miles down the road

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Length: 13min 13sec (793 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 26 2023