[Music] March 1969 Ron and reg Kray were found guilty of murder at the Old Bailey mr.justice Melford Stephenson sentencing them to life imprisonment told them I'm not going to waste words on you in my view society has earned a rest from your activities and I recommend that you be held for at least 30 years when the van pulled up to the Bailey and took them away that's when the big time started for the twins the real big time big bucks not the penny-ante stuff that went on before the whole gangster syndrome started for them in 1969 that's when they started making big big dough locked behind bars many believed the crazed world of violence and menace had come to an end nothing could have been further from the truth for the next 30 years from their prison cells Ron and reg Kray ran a multi-million pound Empire financing a life of luxury and favour behind bars the craze made more money inside prison than they did outside I know they still continue to run an empire both of them from inside prison they'd open clubs that tell people by letter or by phone to go to those clubs there was money exchanging hands to open clubs to take over pubs betting offices record shops snooker halls the things really that they did whilst they were out but just how big were the craze before they were jailed in the underworld so-called they were very much Harvard on the pecking order they were not Eastern gangsters they were Bethnal Green gangsters very very local they could never move outside that area without being told where to go if they tried to flex their muscles outside they're only about on a patch of course they were but he's for middle the cries were very big fish in a very small pond there were other gangs in London and they were a tear rang just as big some bigger and more clever and what they were there's a lot easier to run bethnal green 35 years ago and there was only 15 thousand people in Bethnal Green now there's two hundred and fifty-five thousand people and off of Danny was speak English and I wouldn't listen to the toad tasty gazes around the snow called down a road whoever they were to cry started off as local thugs hooligans protection money etc they used the tenants they early environments they could both be very very go Ellen yes Rani was the more violent one but Reggie with the worst one to upset if one never had his medication as he told me said of a gun and he said you know they're the only thing that really stopped me from going inside he used to rent and lose his temper and his face used to really distort but Reggie was very Carl made some things very coldly you know the baby was gonna stab you it just dead young I think the Rani would have killed in anger Reggie would have killed in hate I can remember someone coming into the club and Reggie Christ shoving accounts or their cheeks Reggie had a long-tailed aluminium type comb still comb which he shoved through the man's cheeks both cheeks tied in a knot they rolled him up in a carpet and took him out they weren't rough really roughly what would I were quite gentleman you know it was only if you crossed her path the wrong mind that you suffered upsetting the Krays brought swift retribution and then she had a big eight-inch hunting knife with a barbed edge on it and he stuck it through Mickey Mouse's arm and obviously screamed I'll say pack it up because I said you can have people run up the stairs and Ronnie said never mind about packing it up he said do it properly they do it properly quit up nice cut split up he's got violence we got violence they knew paid off so being twins the craze everybody feared that fear generated by the craze love of violence helps them build a powerful extortion racket in the East End I add when I called their regular pensions to collect that was from like protection from clubs and gambling casinos and things like that and then right there fingers you know and a lot of other poets like you know we're dead demand a little bit here and a little bit there off of people who had done all these things with I couldn't really go to the police about so they'd get money that way they would hear of the misdeeds of other young criminals in the East End and they would want their pickings they were known in the East End as thieves sponsors that means that they steal of the thieves or click proceeds of their crimes I reckon I were on on an average like in the sixties which was a lot of money about three or four thousand quid a week but the money wasn't ever going in a smash in a place up it was already there a natural fact you went in you had a cuppa tea or a point you were made to feel quite at home and any complaints it was like it was like a television repairman coming people looking forward to your coming because if they had any problem so Charlie the problem he would take them back to the Christ and in the violence side of the kreisau or the people who carried out the violence or the crows it would be passed on to them the crazed activities have now attracted the attention of the top echelon zat's Scotland Yard superintendents Leonard nipper was one of the special team ordered to bring the twins rain to an end nipper read believed Sydney Vaughn was going to be one of his key witnesses it's a place wanted convictions for wanted to use me to get the convictions they wanted me to actually say that I was witness and there when the crowds had demanded bonny wee menaces eventually it ended up in the or Bailey the evidence I gave to the court wasn't what the police wanted so has made enough star witness the case against the twins collapsed within hours they contacted Sydney Vaughn brothers grateful financial aid tonight 545 Clark and weld tavern pub opposite Mount Pleasant post office tell no one I received a telegram saying that money was being offered to me for my aid etcetera by the brothers no money was had a forthcoming now believing they were untouchable the Krays moved into london's prosperous west end but their business techniques lacked sophistication I think the cries in their West End of London were a fish out of water they couldn't on the same kind of code of silence the same kind of code of loyalty they couldn't put pressure on people who were already paying all the gangsters if you're like or other organizations seduced by glamour and glitz the craze adopted a high profile mixing with the rich and famous Judy Garland Barbara Windsor and Ronnie Fraser and boxing legends Joe Louis along with politicians and Lords of the realm Ronnie dubbed the clitoris trope is like when Judy Garland was here they took her to one of the local pubs and they had a piano go in the neck in the pub and Ronnie she said to Ronnie Judy Garland us odd those songs i've only went over to this old girl and he said to her do you know that he's over there running so she said no he said it's Trudy : and she said to him piss off and he said yes really Judy car and she sang a couple of numbers in the pub we were meeting or add clientele such as Brian Epstein Aric Parnes and these people their way of life gave the craze an opportunity in particular ronnie kray an opportunity to see a side where money could be made this wrought in the mafia connections for the Beatles because of the Mafia were very interested in that so I'm a getting the Beatles into Las Vegas because they had all the other big people there every stars ended up in Las Vegas but the Beatles never did but it never came off or though I think well I know Brian Epstein paid Ronnie money he never actually signed any parts of the vehicles over in March 1965 the craze were forced to temporarily abandoned the bright lights of the West End and go into hiding when Ron killed a rival gang member George Cornell believing Cornell had made insulting remarks about him Ron walked into the blind beggar pub in the Mile End Road and shot him in the head George had no respect for running all Reggie well well well mr. Kray used to say that when he was a example he told my Morris it was Mickey Mouse's mother that that ronnie was after south but like sexually active it is Ronnie fan out there that there certainly was very very angry and it was about funk not like Ronnie shot George in the band beggar you haven't got the button anyone who gave evidence against the Kray twins was very brave indeed but I think one of the bravest women I've ever met was Patricia a very gallant woman a barmaid in the blind beggar public house in March of 66 I was talking to George it was a regular customer and all sudden II said look who's here and as I turned Roenick I came in with a another fella - I came level running out of the chat just suddenly had guns in my hand shot George and then turned towards me and it's an time I think I've seen Ronnie smuggle and I thought I think he's gonna shoot me and I realized that if I write out the stays I could get shot in the back so I just ran for the cellar and jumped the whole of salus Terrace and a shot was fired at Patricia which whizzed past her ear into the wall behind her it was probably an attempt to silence her forever and I was carrying around there laughter I'm rabbit I was trying to get be around barrels cries and realizing there was just no way to home item I've never been so scared in all my loveth and then it went very very cool and I came out the stage and Patsy the girl of the pod said to me or is it also to a full moon and I'll say Tim get me tato at the sterilizer but didn't realize where much of the back of his head was missing all the blood was coming from the back and bits of brine now I was trying to hold it together for a brave woman after two years to come forward and give evidence of what she saw 18 months after Ron Kray shot George Cornell it was ridges turn to commit a high-profile murder the Krays commandeered the flat of a local woman Carol Greene forcing her to go to the home of her neighbor and best friend Kitty diamond later that evening local villain Jack the Hat McVitie was lured to the flat in evering Road on the pretext of a party when Carol returned in the early hours with her boyfriend she walked into a nightmare somebody came up the stairs and said to me I'm sorry Carol you can't go downstairs there's been a little bit of trouble and we're trying to clear the place up for you a bit we don't want you to see in such a mess and there was a member of the phone walking up the lower basement stairs and he had a washing up Bowl in his hand and the washing up Bowl was full with water but you could see that the water was absolutely running in blood I was made to go away in my bedroom marketeer various noises outside there was people up and down the stairs and at one point it sounds as if somebody was being dragged along somewhere and also I'm sure at some time I heard somebody say have you got the hat or don't forget the Hat and that is when Jack the Hat immediately came into my brain because you always associated Jack with his hat my boyfriend obviously was also sitting there listening to all this that was going on and he turned to me and he said I'm telling you they've topped someone and I said old oh please don't say that I wouldn't do that here but they had she was a she and I said sure what's the matter and she was crying and hysterical and she said I think they've killed Jack when we went over and we went down the stairs I couldn't believe what I saw I just saw blood everywhere there was blood on the furniture on the couch there was blood on the rolling news up the window was smash there literally was blood everywhere looked like so tears red stabbed Jack the Hat in the neck severing his jugular vein about six months after the murder I was told that reg would like to see me and I went down there and he was there with about four or five of his henchmen and so called and he said to me that he'd heard that I was saying that they'd killed Jack the Hat and I said no I hadn't and he said if we find out that you have we will kill you and your three sons and we won't think twice about it in his books he writes that I was a prosecution witness against him even though he paid for my husband Billy Collins his defense which is an outright lie not a mistake a lie the flourishing combination of lies myths and rumors which followed the murders of Cornell and McVitie enhanced the Krays reputation people who wanted to really know what the crazy were about was it true that they were 6x4 deep voices was it true that they were killers who had bodies under every motorway flyover in the UK was it true that they'd killed 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 how many bodies are around who knew when we all talked about the number of people the Krays killed they didn't necessarily go out and kill these people themselves but they got others in to do the jobs for them they got their own personal things but they didn't go around smashing everybody or finally the people they didn't like personally the others was just business to them and that send their lieutenants to do the violence side how many did Ron actually kill maybe half a dozen how many did reg actually kill maybe two or three something like that but how many did they have their members but again kill it was a lot all in all they got rid of I reckon around 30 people that I used to get rid of their bodies was they had a a Polish fella he was an elderly man over in South London and au star smell ala million what you said doughy sometimesi he is rattling onto the bodies for a little while till he could get rid of them so he's too deep freeze them so he got no smell no blood or anything cried out about the place once the body was frozen up used to take the bodies out sort of buddies up and burn them cremate them like butt in pieces in a aluminium smell a number of the firm have talked about the incinerators there's the graveyards they get into the graveyard before a body was put in the hole they put a body in the hole put some earth on top and coughing were coming on top they double up in the coffins at the funeral parlor then of course there was the Freddie Foreman trick of getting rid of the bodies at sea that's what happened to Jack the Hat he fed the crabs off the coast of Kent no body no crime it was one of Ron's favorite expressions confident they were invincible Ron in 1968 decided to expand internationally and forge links with the American Mafia that time when one went to America to New York to meet the Mafia the families I think he was very much under scrutiny by the police who had informers that they had sent in them people like Alan Cooper and Joe Kaufman they were just informants grasses if you like as Jim provocateurs and this Alan Cooper particularly he was an American a very short little fellow with a lisp and a stutter and the stuff it became worse than the longer he was in the twins company it got very pronounced took them to meet the Mafia he might have met a couple of sweet hoods a couple of them shall we say crew members but he never met any mafia research or he met with actors people who looked like Italian waiters Zapata mustaches big overcoats hiya baby how you doing how you doing wrong he came back he was over the moon he really thought this is it the big link I've been doing him and his twin and the Mafia ludicrous ludicrous with a ludicrous or not Scotland Yard viewed the proposed alliance with alarm and launched a massive operation to end the craze rule finally the wall of silence which was so long had protected the craze was pierced in May 1968 the three brothers and eight other gang members were arrested and charged with murdering George Cornell and Jack McVitie and conspiracy to kill after they were arrested Ronnie wanted Albert Donoghue the cider he killed Jack the Hat and he wanted Ron er to cider a kill Joel come now and I said that Ike the rat rolled along firms and all the other little cases of violence running like the billions and he was very angry annoyed when I won through it key witnesses were now prepared to stand up against the Craig Aang three women were crucial prosecution witnesses Kitty diamond Carol green and Patricia Kelly after giving evidence all three lived in fear for many years two were given new identities after an eight week trial Ron and reg were jailed for life Charlie was sentenced to ten years as they were driven away to start their sentences many believed Britain's most dangerous organized crime Empire had finally been smashed but they could not have been more wrong they weren't organized Cleveland was disorganized kind of prior to 1969 chutney I've ever heard of a new one but since the incarceration and became a real organized enterprise the Kree Empire started in April 1969 in Episode two how the Kree Empire flourished and grew behind bars in March 1969 gang bosses wrong and reg Kray's started life sentences for murder many believed their notorious crime Empire had been brought to an end but the reality was to be very different they were still wheeling and dealing from inside prison it had just moved the only problem was for the craze that there had to get other people in to do those deals the network the people banging the queers even though the locked away was you know we're still on gone there was still plenty people they were out there willing to help them I'm willing to do you know things for we have his own home if you like his own private phone where if he wanted that problem no one else would use it until he heard that now he would use that for me and he would make probably 20 or 30 calls between 6:00 and bang up which is about half seven first have about seven phone calls a week but they all depended army men what you're going through fort which is their day sometimes a day conducting business over the phone was not the only way reg issued instructions after holding his fighting skills in the prison gym reg who was a professional boxer in as youth regularly summons people to meetings he would have seven or eight visitors at one time what he's only allowed to but he would farm out the others on other people's of iou's visiting orders but they were all there of stem to be 50 reg and they would do the round when Rich is done with one huzzah like on their way and call you either you get up off his tie one can sit penning you have your chat with Fred I'll go grab like a musical chairs and sometimes it just went maybe 200 miles to see reg and they have maybe three minutes of his time and if they couldn't come up with what he wanted they wouldn't get three minutes even you know this was he was very very weak a motherboard really it was a business meeting or the visit reg wasn't in jail prejudice boardroom he hated Easter he hated Christmas because he would have to take two or three days off from his business then he would ring should we say thereafter Boxing Day say thank God I can get back to business so boring these holidays aren't they he was quite place and asked but it happened and that was very much money first class in between and he didn't care who got it for him or how they got it or as long as they caught it he always said I am the one who makes the rules I do the business he was the boss of crime reg was issuing contracts on people to stab them to shoot them to do something to them to make sure that they knew that they weren't supposed to do that again that's the way your reg Kray was say he was paying people to do things outside of jail I had muscle for hire in my job my ID 500 doorman that were by in two or three times a night on the door of a nightclub and to go and give someone good right-hander for 500 quid that was a higher and he so it very easy to then call that upon me on and didn't want to do it but like in any in anything until once you've done something once it's really hard to not do it again anyone want to get he won he's sorted out whilst I was around for him I do and I use this word contracts but I also make contracts to Kilburn anyone need liven up a little bit it may get its idea would do it or saw the out point when Ron Kray was attacked by Peter sucked up the Yorkshire Ripper in Broadmoor Ron wanted to call you today Ron said look it's over with forget it but reg could not he could not forget somebody had attacked his twin brother it was registration that was on the line was it Ron had nothing to do with Ron so reg said right I'm gonna get this guy he found somebody who was going to be transferred to Broadmoor he issued a contract on Sukkoth and this guy stabbed Sutcliffe in the eye a court later ruled that the attacker a friend of Reggie's was mentally disturbed imagine never stopped intimidated people in my view when he got comfortable with me after a year he started asking me to intimidate people who don't go of which I did first thing red asked me to do was go ran in the Vic someone they shouldn't have been in the house they're not the friend of it Reggie told us to go there very early on Sunday morning knock on the door give him the worst idea he had ever had which we did we went there knocked on the door as soon as he comes out loss measures ours are putting the face and I broke me and looked at me and the ends collapsed and that acquired its with me either he's crossed snap-on ratchet with him and he put this all about his face nobody's business this guy was totally unconscious jumping up with air on his face getting the car like we bugger off get down a prison with tail red I saw it he didn't have two words to say well done it was it right there on thing in his private dead his nose was on one side that floor and his take from they have a solid fence and he didn't even even maze I'm like and rich didn't came among Easton's as far as he was concerned used a fiver for a little boy in a prison that was doing in piracy one of my son's encountered reg Kray in Parkhurst prison and my son had not gone in named Collins which is the name that rich should have known by he'd gone in in his so name of my second husband but that didn't stop rage dying and saying to him your mother gave evidence against me at the Old Bailey and somebody ran past him and sliced his face I come with a writer reg Kray was what I would call a manipulative of people he was a guy who usually got what he wanted one way or another he had a lot of influences in in in the prison then on the outside and many times reg asked people and myself to follow prison officers and just let him know where they lived what talk about granny's food lost his head withered out of family children so on and and then he would use that as intimidation for prison officers when he was on a visit to turn a blind dieter any packages or any money or any anything that shouldn't have been happening happening could you please go and see someone make sure that he doesn't call me a dirty stinking killer because it's not true I'm not dirty stinking killer I may have been a killer but I wasn't a dirty stinking bag could you please go and see him or ask someone maybe you saw named at me uh to make sure that he doesn't say the game please nicely of course and this happened I was a money bump here by an agent whose name he won't mention I've made a quite considerable amount of money and four months month about say the only money said i'll which you'll get it when I got it blah blah blah and the two days after I've been to visit read it in the papers uh I've been to visiting the main site and the following day I got a check from this agent and today I'm going to put it down to the fact that you went after four or five years waiting for my chocolate about any man taken off the street a clipping me fingers and I felt more powerful than I ever felt in my life and it was it was unbelievable it was it was it was a feeling of basalt and untouchable I was touched I was very touchable but you don't say that to succeed at something like the twins have succeeded at on the scale that they have succeeded you can't do it without a hint of violence a hint of Menace but even me the twins were the original merchants of menace in 1980 Ron and reg Kray were separated Ron's mental stability had deteriorated he was declared insane and sent abroad more he was still organizing from inside Gordon and things that he used to wear and the people that things used to send me in with I've gotta pick up three pure white silk shirts beautiful Italian silk shirts and take them in to him and he had a tailor called Barry Scott come from Wembley go into Broadmoor stand him up measured him up every six months for a silk italian-style suit crocodile shoes 300 pound pair he had access to lots and lots of dough he had his bank accounts his Building Society cash he was a little more surprisingly a little more shrewd and reg in that respect I remember being called out one day to Broadmoor by the canteen man I was with Charlie Kray at the time we've had a wonderful visit it was never in a good mood with Charlie crying Ronnie you tell him off and have a go at him at the table but this particular afternoon it was good as we left the canteen man came out and said Charlie can I talk to you for a moment so what's the matter it's about Ronnie's bill how can you have a bill used to drink for non-alcoholic lagers which was of course all you were allowed in there Barbican their name was I don't maybe two teas or two coffees charlie cry adapt to a cheese and two coffees well his canteen bill is 900 pounds no we stopped the visits in a hole and next to the hole was a shot and I'm talking about a shot not a little shop something like Marks and Spencers in that shop was closed lighters cigarettes sweets chocolates no drink no alcohol nothing like that train is on a guy who run his shop for me no his name is reg ronnie was always in the shop buying lighters and get them engravings tend to people and crystalline most you know there years someone had a baby he'd go in there and say reg would you send a crystal booking engraving and put on my accounts one day just come off a busy syndrome and the guy who owned the shop little reg girl he said Jackie said can I ever told you what's the same here as much but he said we didn't you come in my office you know so well in his office sat down he said to him I'm a big concern Jackie that's what Simone Rosie when he said Ronnie's running a bill over 7,000 pounds I said don't worry he's gonna get off the million pound surely feel it fully for the movie he'd be paid you win Oh all right Chuck and he you know and going out the door oh by the way he all right FISMA credi but don't worry you can have as much as he wants he was known in Broadmoor as a watch man he used to ask his visitors please could you bring me in a watch and he didn't mean that penny-ante watch you meant an expensive watch then I'd go with the guy and he'd sit down Ronnie Kray this is Joe he'd like to meet you shake hands the eyes used to light up that kid in the factory of sweets oh I like that watch could you get me one like that to which you see any any guy looking at Ronnie Kray sitting there gonna be there for 30 years with no hope of being freed would go oh hammer you can have it if you wore anything and then he liked it you have to give me that was it and when do you think about doing 30 yes keep him happy we used to do it you know cuz let's face it he was dealing 30 years we wins so we get you know in this beautiful coat on he looked down he went Oh Chuck he said what a beautiful overcoat and I knew he wants today I went Ronnie I'll leave the coast of reception for you you know reg Kray visited his brother every six months the transport would be laid on he'd have two or three or maybe four heavy guards going with him for the ride wherever reg was around the country Parkhurst or whatever he would have the six monthly visit to see his brother where they could sit down quietly and discuss all their personal business released from prison in 1975 elder brother Charlie was fronting the family firm when Charlie came out of jail after being inside for seven years one of his first contacts was with the mob in New York these people had certain ideas of how I could get back into business one of them of course was setting up a record company the initial idea of attack music corporation was to launder money the original 2 million was to come in helped to set up the company run it as a legitimate company but the idea was because most of the artists came from America and money will be coming back with some forwards from America this was an obvious laundering setup and when I found out exactly what was going on I was originally a part of that company I pulled out I got up one day and I said this has gone far enough and I walked attack music corporation went out of existence in the late 1980s I had son of shotguns stuck under my nose and told you'd be quiet about this or else I've been threatened people telling me that they'll pick my children up from school and when Charlie Kray tells me on the phone he'll take care of me even if he has to spend the rest of his life in jail this is serious business although protecting their money laundering scams was paramount reg was constantly looking for new ways of generating cash fellow prisoner bradley allerdyce who during his 10 years inside became so close to reg that reg referred to bradley as his adopted son remembers one very lucrative prison visit I mean for instance two people from black balls come down to see me emerge on a visit and said they owned hotels and they just sold up all their hotels and asked if I could open a club in Blackpool called the crate and Richard said yes and they give him 30,000 Pam six months later we didn't hear nothing for six months six months later they've got in touch again and said whether we decided against doing that club did didn't even mention the money didn't even ask for the money back every week I would say that rage can I have a new business idea some of them were workers and some of them wasn't but it insist I'll put an equal amount effort into each project he earned a shilling and spent one and sex all his life so did his brother Ron and I really do think taking the two extremes that they've read then 10 million pounds in the years he was in prison he was spent in love million bands because of sensibly it wasn't his money he didn't really care he was enjoying it had all he wanted and his friends had all they wanted it meant freedom no one telling me what to I could tell people what to do it meant having money even though I won't spend it it meant walking down the street and people said well it's for twins that boy rich sent a limousine for me that is this car was meant of being president eisenhower's presidential Cadillac of 1956 they'd come and open the carton he liked honor King I'm at the bar there and champagnes being thrown at me and there what does that tell you what the name of the cry can't ophea yabbies huge huge ego I was being fed incessantly by his army of groupies camp followers and admirers wedgies biggest financial coup was a lot with Nicole Crompton he 111 million pound on the lottery he'd over 200,000 Pam verge asked him if he could borrow it to set up a few business deals in this mountain Carl said yeah it'd be a pleasure and residents asked Carl if he could make out the check for thirty three thousand pound each and reg got back to the cell and got out a piece of paper from his draw sat down and spent that hundred thousand pounds in about 15 minutes right and down the list of people to give it to debts to pay as well you know about a week later it was up some right come on go get a few quid I still like my dad spent last week one day I want to see Ronnie on the visitors and I come out with this idea Jim I said Ron you said look I said we've got the best name in the business I said why don't we do a personal bodyguard service for film stars and Arab nobleman so he said yeah because he always aggrieved me brother he said Jackie said well wonderful idea because he was an auto show business and that's our thing you know so a thoughtless thing called craley Enterprises and what it was is we look out there Alec normal and Hollywood stars we went in slightly under underfunded but we got over that problem I come up with this idea will advertising and melody for bodyguards now we didn't want these people so I we advertised in a melody to send a 2-pound registration fee to John Crowley enterprises as a bodyguard you know he was unbelievable within C we had over 17,000 pound in post loaders they could crew and we've done everything right everywhere the counts ins got a bank account which I won't get down a side of it and it was it was lovely it was a race of business the police come to see us they said yeah Carrie bound by all means we're looking after the olives and the film stars best things to spice play they just couldn't stop making money and spending or giving it away the growing fascination with the Kray cult also attracted a string of celebrities to visit them in prison one in the early 80s was former pop star Roger Daltrey Roger Daltrey wanted to do the film and in the end of the day he bought the rights sat on them for five years who didn't make the film in the end and sold them on again the rights were sold to Parkfield Group plc the contract says very very clearly Charlie Kray was to get 100,000 reg Kray 100,000 Ron Kray 100,000 pounds Charlie would also get money quite a substantial sum as technical advisor another set of twins the Kemp's were picked to play Ron and reg in the movie depicting their life of violence in the east and Jack before filming started the Kemp's went to visit run in Broadmoor and when they walked in a bed on purposely one overcoats shirts ties and slicked back their hair even the wardens on the door they just couldn't believe it they said these are the two guys that gonna play the twins when I went yeah and we sat down and I said look I'll just say hello blah then I'll go and sit with Charlie Smith so you can talk some business and in case Ronnie wanted to tell them a little they want you to pick up little things that he did you know especially the hand movements and the quietness of the voice because I think everybody who talked to think that because they were feared so much they shouted and screamed whatever war if the guys menacing enough you never have to raise your voice because Ronnie Kray could just look at you with one look 'we wanted done was done and he looked at those two and he just said who's playing me I'm Martin Kemp smiles and in a minute that Martin Kemp smile you're the soft one you can play Reggie came anyway you're playing me what'd you say during negotiations for the film rights the cranes biggest underworld rival in the 60s torture gang boss Charlie Richardson tried to muscle in on the deal Richardson sent his associate Eddie Jones to see Ron in 1984 Charles Richardson was released from his 25 year sentence for which he served 19 years he said to me in his office one day in a new cross why'd you pop down to Broadmoor to see the Mad Hatter I understand that Roger Daltrey's blanked him and more Dover their film see if we can walk in on it to help persuade Ron Eddie Jones took fellow gang member Matt Frank Frazer and the actor Steven Berkoff who was to play George Cornell on the visit so one spring more Frank Fraser Steven Berkoff myself popped back I was absolutely rigid was there I think of this time first question Ron said to me was where doesn't Charlie come to see me Charlie Richardson well I said it's very difficult Ron I said for him to come and see isn't it you know you shot George Cornell Frank yeah who worked for Charlie he was a good friend of Charlie's olive George come out his wife still around in Peckham what you gonna tell her if he bumps into her oh man don't see one man sweet on prey I mean you can't do it let's be honest so what's wrong Kray replied but nothing personal you say in those days for people to realize is I took George gonna but it wasn't personal I'm Frank Fraser give a classic reply to that he's dead well in my my book wrong he said shooting man in the head and swing him he said and blowing his brains over the bar but that is the most personal thing you can ever do to anyone it's the most personal thing I've ever heard on the success of the film glamorized the crazed violent exploits creating a wave of hero worship amongst a younger generation in Episode three how the Kray movie created a new money-making era and they cashed in big-time [Applause] [Music] jailed for life in 1969 for murder Ron and reg Kray spent their time behind bars financing a lifestyle of luxury and favored by the mid-1980s the world outside had changed and many of their original money-making activities began to dwindle the film the craze brought them cult status and a new money-making opportunities one of the most successful scams was celebrity parties billed as charity events it was an attempt to give the three Kray brothers a Robin Hood image as they extracted money from hero-worshipping groupies ticket to print it and you've got a long list of alcohol and plastic gangsters these are paid water fanatics with with the craze and believe me that a time once you've sent all the invitations out it's a same type of people you've got in there get some media coverage and decide who's coming to the party meaning famous people there to do this what we did with go to prison so right Reggie who can we get there today it's hermoso right shame you cheese company visit me a couple of weeks ago des he's never give him a belt sorry you'd bring up Shane Richie bingo he turns out it's a nice little video shot of injuring a little auction for Reggie Kray and always picked the mad I'm showing it to you know some of the pies I attended er so much charity events I met some fabulous people some great characters with one pub in particular mentally everybody had a crazy story to tell I only reminded me because I'd just done a documentary about Hell feast at Graceland and I'll attend to the similar part in Graceland where they were talking about Elvis and they were talking about Reggie and Ronnie exactly the same way I can I remember when Reggie did the I was lovely celebrities meant nothing to these people to the twins I mean they didn't realize that these guys normally were trophy people like Donald man nasty neck of eastenders people like Nigel ban people like Ross Kemp of EastEnders they would devote from reality there they were living in there in there in a bubble they thought these people just do as they asked and surprisingly they did later not for nothing I think I must get a buzzer of being around these type of people but the ones that would want pain are the infamous gangsters from the 60s that run with Roach in the East End that are still around today he wouldn't even Reggie Bravo Charlie they couldn't turn up at one of these parties unless he was getting his palm light salted with a bit of cash you know and sometimes I used to laugh at him rice want a cut on Japan gap turn up we'll take out the rich well wedge loads this and if you don't have Charlie Kray there that of fans ain't gonna buy the tickets they want to see a cry sort of crazed through you get the fans getting fans you get the money so you got a failure at charlie and Charlie turns up you've got the money from the tickets Charlie was never one to turn his nose up there a free drink or applied panel or a temper loot he dined out obviously am I not many many many times over the years Charlie was a lovely man we always have a smile always have a glass of scotch always told you what you wanted to hear her to drink I took the crumbs off the table and let me say this not a named substantial amount of crumbs he really lived a life he was a nice man but twins were making serious money at this time very serious money rich was always on the ball he wanted the money as soon as he could get it that was I ever send it to him in we call the delivery envelopes special delivery next day sake on it the next day or it asks you to take the money direct yourself to the prison which could be quite a lot money like thousand two thousand pair and you take it in and he would never directly take the money off you'd have another prisoner there on another table and you would give that prisoner the money and they're dead conceal it and take it take it back with them and when I got back to the cells at Leon their visit there obviously part on a reg I did many charities for rich and I was never away and to this day that money was siphoned off and went directly to Reggie I mean I've done charities in the past before for obviously other people other than Reggie and where money's gone missing and I think if there was ever any rumors that that happened I I don't know if Reggie would be responsible I think people on the outside took advantage of the whole crate phenomenon but son I had that experience where happening with Reggie one part update at the end of the night twelve O'Clock divvying up the money in some systems right how much money you made out at least scale and it was free grand on the table I said nothing because I know the next morning Reggie be on the phone and that money was gonna get sent everywhere and you know what sometimes I had Hayden at the pay for the Special Delivery the Press said Reggie's raised so much money for charity Reggie's paid this charity Reggie's kept this to charity no one who was going anywhere up in these pocket a small percentage errors this is going into the the fund as he called it it was a young boy I can't remember his name from Nottingham and he suffered from muscular dystrophy and I think generally they did send him to Florida but that's before I knew Reggie I did a part in Newcastle which was two thousand one hundred poem for Terry Moran had a Burns boy and as a result of that read justice that there was second party basically to raise money for himself but this was obviously something which had I'd strongly disagreed with Ronnie and Reggie Kray said to me well you can go along then doing a raffle for your charity but we want some money we're broken here Ronnie Kray spent money and war walk like water in Broadmoor buying people presents sending money out to people unbelievable things he used to bind there and I said well look I'll go along do the charity at the moment EastEnders was the big thing on television Leslie Grayson was dirty den and I found him out and said would you like to come along and help me and he came along he bought me some big cuddly toys for the raffle and at the end of the night I said to run Georgie Dixon and Alan Dixon war you're gonna give Ronnie and Reggie they said they can have the money that we took on the door well that's okay by me all I knew I had a little envelope with 1500 pound in it that was going to have field hospital what they took on the door what they took from tickets I don't know I don't care but they had to have their money you've got to remember these tickets that we're sending out about 25 pen for your parents right the money to the charity events well if we call them charity events but that was just a cover or money that came in from drugs or wherever the money came from that we got would be sent to run em reg mainly reg reg would Satan that sense and Somali 200 quid Ronnie would send that straight out to one of his uh his boys as he called him his little boys and reg would pay pay he's he's mal friends he's young male friends in Maidstone and for sexual favors he kept it in there himself in the closet in them days I was there a little while before he came out sideways if you like I saw good come on us always approached me for sex as much as that I was cutting his ear and I staying with me I was landing me short everything and I was cutting his ear he then stroked the back of my leg with his aim very surprised I grabbed the season I went a lot went for more than once reg was given an official warning by the prison authorities to stay away from young offenders at one point he became so concerned about his own sexual activities that he underwent an AIDS test it proved negative he's let's call it gay activities were something that he wanted to keep quiet one way of keeping those activities quiet was to give presents favors a gold watch a new suit and that kind of thing through the years cost rich cray a lot of money and again reg always needed a source of money to pay people off a toll major he's had a relationship with a boy and this this young boy is threatening to tell the whole boys news in the world for a substantial amount of money and that I must stop this happening so he wants to make it travel all the way it's a man be prison and under duress paint this kid's sign an affidavit and it listed a number of things and it said underneath it if any of the above has been given to any national newspaper all the above was only for financial gain to myself and all of it is untrue he says why get out the prison and I thought this kid this kid comes out sits down I write tripping it looking kid you should have been dealt with like a lot of other people reg dealt with but you see reg had a soft spot and I had to sit there and told his kid if any of this got into the national press it get really act now would also really are made really up and this this kid understood what we was telling him in in that prison that pay it's all off the chap is not going to go through with it neither ever will he it will not come up again you will not hear another thing over about the nuns from Knotts he's been taking care of her mattress I was moving great you can't do nothing and if he does I've got this now and if that anything comes out in the papers I can react to it it was very much a closeted homosexual well as one was a little more blatant he confessed to being bisexual I think of the age of 19 shocked his family rigid and told well he had a great attraction towards young women brawny but they had to be extremely young and extremely handsome and he had he had a several in Broadmoor one I had to go to Denmark Street which as you know is called the music street with a hundred and fifty pound in an envelope and I had to buy a guitar Charlie in here he's my friend and winked at me and I said where is him three tables over there not no can I see this handful beautiful young boy said he's learning to play the guitar no more surprising for Christmas he was sitting with his mother this kid his name's Charlie Smith you see I presumed that that was a lover or a would-be lover at the time so long I go to Denmark Street and buy this beautiful guitar which was a lot of money you know 20 years ago 150 pound record are and they have to pass it all up and send it to Brahma I wonder what they thought in the end you know to Ronnie Kray care of Broadmoor a beautiful guitar but um I'd be sent out to buy an excellent unbelievable stuff you know cashmere sweaters at Christmas for this Charlie Smith beautiful watch underwear Oh had to have Calvin Klein underwear wedges demands were entirely different alcohol was top of his list every master brewing the gels I was in with him they all had a special rule down for rage good customer always played cash prison booze is dangerous it's maybe some very good G ingredients but it is powerful stuff he used to carry it by the gallon in a great big bucket full pass the screws and ladies got outraged not the other way there you know let him get away blue murders he did if it wasn't made in jail by prison hooch the screws bought the drinking for us paid handsomely for it as well there were I mean for a 10 pound bottle of scotch we'll have to give the screw 30 quid reg I know every screwing every Nick work that would you know that was available to do things for him if me and Mitch got a bottle of scotch from Miss we'd go behind their door and with wedge to doll up so no one can come in the relaxing of prison regulations under a new liberalization policy in the 80s enables drink drugs and phone cards to be smuggled in on a regular basis to buy favors for reg and his close friends it was quite funny to go on a visit the reg because a lot of the time the people who were went with would take in alcohol for reg yeah you know a medicine bottle probably was Scotch concealed somewhere on that person and you know the added bonus that the prisoner was isn't not in prison tended not a check anybody you know very well meant that reg could you know basically get a good drink inside him saw the visitor not even reg was usually you know three sheets to the wind by the time I left him prison officers in a maze phone prison used to give him an LP known back to the erm that's a DSL yeah we had so many visitors so many new rules at carriers that I know that Raja Babu's were smuggling yes sky spirits of course and other substances you know they used to esta sea and cocaine in my stone when I was other companies there one diving in mice times I was in Parkers anyway something two separate sentences I did and had a bag of Charlie's it's called slang name for cocaine it was just a bag of sugar you know I'll soar it was to start with and City told Bradley give me a couple of lines and then they was running around on Estes he feels you know that you know yes it is yeah it's a break you out but that's why is he could I know he called me many times between 6:00 and 6:30 and he'd usually had a drink by then hooch of course and he was normally quite quite slurring his speech and he would get a little more aggressive in his tongue on the telephone and he normally would and this is his business hour I think between six and seven where he would bark up his orders people can understand him and if he was if you like not in his tone or threatening that was the time that it would come out yeah there was no limits on his screaming the shouting where were you was a day late with his letter where were you didn't drop off a load of money or collect some money from someone or you should have dunno whether you with men and then a word with the gauge alot he told you to or didn't do it is the shout him from him was all the same it's all straight up to volume 10 yeah would you do this please effing please you f in mind kind of thing and then he would calm down and say right thank you very much I gotta go I'm going to a party now in someone's cell I mean he enjoyed it you know it was his party Ron Kray died in 1995 and the underworlds turned out to pay its respects his funeral was said to be the biggest London had seen since the death of Sir Winston Churchill security was paramount reg arranged every detail going to extraordinary lengths for the brother he called his other half but reg had an ulterior motive I just remember their you know they I think I seen you know he's ashes to ashes dust to dust in the coffin getting lured in and then the bizarre sight if people who are new had respect for the family and respect for their twins Dean photographs and somebody with a video recorder and hosting into toke bizarre as this you know this is a funeral this is where I guess pay any respect to somebody who is supposed to have feelings for you supposed to feel close for nest and I'm with a video camera video and it in it wasn't until later on that I realized that it was all part of reg and pledges let's make some money at me brother's death by doing a video Reggie's hopes of making money out of another big occasion his wedding to Roberta Jones in July 1997 were dashed when prison Authority was an attempt to impress the parole board I on his behalf trademarked the name the Kray twins and whether or not a court would've agreed with an action may be brought would be to copyright I don't know but at least he had control and if he saw his name being used either in a book or piece of merchandise etc that he didn't know about that he hadn't sanctioned then he would go ballistic the merchandising really generated hundreds of thousands of pounds they sold everything from photographs to cufflinks to scarves to t-shirts to big placards they sold anything they could do with a double are on it they would have built buckles made with the double are on it they would have pins you can put in your lapel with the double our calendars picture disks tea towels we don't prints of a painting that I pull like I'll pay Paul like a thousand pounds Acme our money to get out bunthing I'll pay to have the prints made up we solved them on sine we got the twins to sitting there selves and sign up these sticky label things and we sticker me beside one from life originally 95 him anything they could make money on and there are a lot of people out there who not only were willing to make it and make it at a reasonable price there were a lot of people who wanted to pay for it and there are still people today buying crate merchandise and memorabilia even on the Internet I'll just keep picking bits up off the internet and keep buying it and drowning me pockets I'd imagine I've spent now are in the region of four four or five and a half thousand pound now the three brothers are dead it's gonna increase in value even more I brought this picture it's signed by reg the actual original one of this was on the internet they auctioned it off and that fetched in a region of 750 pounds and then they came up with the idea that they do these laminated copies and these were going for like 10-15 pound each the t-shirts originally were about $15.99 but 25 pound now some of them some of the original ones like this this one were rough justice I mean you could probably get state if I'd have no trouble probably even more I would say that the Koreas made more money inside prison than they did outside as criminals and a turnover you know I could never estimate what it was but I'm sure it was you know Millions there was 15 main people working for the twins pulling money in and I think most of them were pulling in probably more than I did I must have learnt that Mayer 70 grand seventy thousand per I would certainly say that I made possibly a hundred thousand for them in different deals you know but the money very rarely touched my fingers and you know was always you know into the Koreas back pockets when he realized that he had stomach problems that was around about 1996-97 he knew then that possibly his days were numbered instead of just sitting back and taking it easy reg Kray started issuing more contracts doing more deals reg Kray was even doing business on his deathbed it was a huge amount of money two hundred thousand plus for his last confession a nice little earner for a killer in that confession reg admitted one more killing but despite the huge payment he fails to name his victim Peter Gillette believes he knows the victim's identity he didn't elaborate on the program but 16 years ago Ray's burden me with the secret of this southern murder he did it wasn't a villain it wasn't a policeman it was a young boy young gay boy there's before they went way up to times when I still living in balance road I believe this boy had got into bed with him give him a blow job or where we won't call it give him head and he didn't found that you'd enjoy he's discussing himself realizing it yeah he would enjoyed that sort of thing and it showed him he was gay or bisexual what he shot the kid after 32 years and four months behind bars reg Kray died on October the 1st 2005 weeks after being released by the Home Secretary on compassionate grounds he's buried with his brothers in Chingford cemetery I think even though the stree they're gone to the great criminal empire in Skye I think the bandwagon will continue to roll and roll and roll it will expand it will gain speed people will come they will feed off it and into it and it will always I think remain a money spinner for all concerned long live the craz crazy dead long live the craze [Music] you [Music] you
