The Journey Home - 2013-08-12 - Richard Thompson - Former Protestant

good evening and welcome to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host for this program I always say every week I have this great privilege from EWTN to bring into your home men and women who led by the Holy Spirit their hearts and minds awaken to the beauty and the fullness of the church and that's true but this week I'm very very honored to have as our guest Richard Thompson former Protestant but he's the president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Center so I'm with somebody here that's far above my prick my paygrade so it's great to have you thank you for having me are you is this on the program I want to also tell you know W WM s morgue it's how they can find out more about us yes and maybe before we begin often when I mean Thomas More really sets the stage for that your understanding of what you guys do right yes suspect he would choose him just that's it it's it I chose him even before I became a Protestant a Catholic a Catholic Assistant Prosecutor I was in a prosecutor's office for 24 years and I was prosecuting Jack Kevorkian I was getting my head bashed in by the media juries were finding of not guilty because they thought he was doing a great thing one day one of the assistant prosecutors came in there and into my office after we had just lost the case and she says you know what you should read the book the man for all seasons because you know she saw some similarity there and so I did read that book and I was impressed you know as he goes up to the executioner he says I die the Kings good servant but God's first and that sort of set the stage of you know we do belong to the civil government and we give obedience to the civil government but there was a higher authority and that's God and that's why the Thomas More Law Center was formed it was because we wanted to make sure that even though we paid allegiance to the civil government that there was a higher authority and that was God and we had to make sure that this country which was founded on Christian principles judeo-christian principles kept those judeo-christian principles because I believe that religion basically decides what kind of culture we have and if you destroy the religion of that culture you'll ultimately destroy the culture so it is it to me it is a battle for the survival of America as we know it so you're in the frontlines of this that's I remember asking my father God rest his soul that years ago long not long after I had become Catholic and he wasn't a practicing Christian of course part of it was he couldn't get out of his house because of emphysema but I I I was always trying to open his heart and I remember asking him one time all right dad if you were to look at the 15th century he loved history of all the characters in the fifteenth century who would you pick over the 16th century excuse me 16th century would you pick in my mind think he's gonna pick Luther Calvin and one of these others and he said Thomas More why Thomas More because of a man of conscience a man of conscience a man who and it was almost exact so we need today yes we need people of conscience and so even my father recognized this I mean whatever even in England a Protestant country Winston Churchill said you know Thomas More was one of the greatest figures in English history and so you know you look at someone who a man for all seasons he had he was a second below the king and he was a diplomat a writer he was the Renaissance man but yet when it came down to whether he had to decide to sign this piece of paper that would save his life or stay obedient to God he stayed obedient to God even a bit of a comedian to the end right yes well this at Thomas More aside for a second and let's talk about you a little bit what I generally do is is ask the guests to go way back to the beginning and give us a little summary of where you've come spiritually okay well I have to start with my parents who were immigrants to this country Armenians life my father's had three brothers all killed in the Turkish massacre my mother's father was killed but he ultimately immigrated to this country very deeply religious in the Armenian Apostolic Church he worked in a assembly line but every night in when he came home he'd read the Bible for two or three hours Wow well Romanian apostolic yes that's the National Church that's the National Church of Armenia all right and then ultimately because I couldn't go to the church we he didn't have a car some Protestant neighbors would take me to the non-denominational Protestant church so I considered myself a Protestant I you know go to the church we memorize chapters in the Bible and you know I stayed with that church I got my I think my moral foundations from the Protestant church to that as a young man and I stayed there until I left for college would you if you just a pause you a cycle if you'd gone back looked at yourself and those did you have a conscious recognition of God intimate prayer life any of that I wouldn't say that I was more into memorizing verses you know John 3:16 for God so loved the world etc and they had it was a very Protestant type church it didn't have I mean they they prayed but it didn't have the deep kind of feeling that you would have later on maybe I was still too young to have that kind of feeling but I sort of considered myself a Christian ultimately got married to my wife Marilyn Kate cradle Catholic yeah you know I promise to raise my children Catholic and I had no problem with that because as a Protestant as a prosecutor I realize how bad the public school system was and I had already determined that you know if I get married I'm not going to put my kids you know in the public school system that we had at least in my County you know they they had no problem with having kids read the Karl Marx and all that but they had a problem with kids read the Bible so that's it sound right today and then so you married her after college after college long time you know later in life we guy got married later in life during her just for example in your college years then just back up a little bit was was her faith act of it all those years not at all I just put it aside you know I went into the Army for a few years through our OTC then I focused on my career as a lawyer with the law school and wanted to be a great lawyer so you know I really studied hard and being a lawyer I got a little discouraged by about that kind of profession because I've been handling a lot of divorce cases and that they get very ugly and I decided that's not what kind of lawyers I wanted to do and then ultimately went to the prosecutor's office in in the law school as you're still not practicing your faith at that point no no is the issues of the moral issues of right and wrong and all that is that a part of the thinking or is that just no it was not a part of thinking all we did was basically look at the cases look at the precedents didn't get deeper into it than that I know there's some like Hobby Maria law school now they are very strong in the natural law they go deeper into the law but at that time I went to Wayne State University Law School in Detroit was a secular law school we didn't get into socially precedent is the authority right precedent is Authority and that's the way it goes precedents the authority very interesting ok it's it natural law wasn't a part of it though and then you don't want my wife a very very good Catholic girl she'd go to Mass every Sunday and she'd asked if I wanted to come along I'd be on the couch with my clicker why MTV I mean I'd spout off a couple of verses from the Bible like I wanted to sure I knew what the Bible is all about and it would only be able to say on an Easter or Christmas that I'd go with her to Mass because her family would be there as well and I wanted to at least show respect of the family and so it was many many years later they ultimately inverted to Catholicism and that's and I say you know Jack Kevorkian dr. death was the precipitator of me becoming a Catholic and people get you know wonder what that's all about yeah let's hear that because you went into that without the faith base right and people thought that I was prosecuting because of my religion they didn't realize I wasn't going to church every Sunday at all I was a couch potato Christian and again what I did there back up a little bit I'd spent 16 years and the prosecutors at that prosecutor's office at that time my boss the prosecutor Brooks Patterson decided he was going to retire so I ran for his job was elected the following year Jack Kevorkian starts to you know experiment with assisted suicide in 1990 he assists Janet Adkins in her death in a County Park and a rusty Volkswagen van and I did what I would do as a prosecutor I looked at the facts I looked at the president he's guilty of first-degree murder so I charged him with first-degree murder firestorm broke out instead of people at least supporting or keeping neutral they attacked me because here Jack Kevorkian was doing a favor to these individuals who are suffering excruciating pain it didn't want to live and what does government have to do as to how someone lives and so it started that whole issue what happened was as a prosecutor when you go into the courtroom you're prosecuting murderers rapists burglars everyone's on your side in the beginning they understand that that's wrong that you know this is a crime and you should prosecute but when we won to the prosecutor's office charging Jack Jack Kevorkian with an assisted suicide of this woman who at least had some indicia of physical pain he was claiming they were terminally ill although three out of four were never terminally ill but people felt sorry for that and they consider him this angel of mercy even though jack kevorkian by his own words was an atheist attacked religion every chance he got and so I I realized that I can't just walk in and prosecute someone I had to explain to people why the law was a good law why we couldn't allow assisted suicide well that's what led me to the church when I started a study you know the basis of opposing physician assisted suicide it took you to the Magisterium of the church john-paul seconds gospel of life in fact Saint Agustin 1500 years before had talked about physician assisted suicide and said it was a false compassion for families to kill other members because they thought the person was suffering to have real compassion you suffer with the person you don't kill the person that is suffering so ultimately I interested in the Catholic Church on an intellectual level it was this church has this vast reservoir of wisdom that people have to people have to grasp and understand and so it almost sounds like from before law is about okay here's my case and I've got this precedent look at the president's is it okay does it fit the law and also the issue is what kind of precedent is going to set I mean that's what it's all about right precedent precedent so what you're saying is what introduce a new precedent into you is Agustin there's other precedents here yes you know how did I compare these precedents and even the John Paul's own writings so it's a whole new precedent you wouldn't have taken before right and in this case it seemed like that the wisdom of the church the president of the church seemed just in right instead of the moral relative that was going on in our society at the time so I slowly became more and more interested in the church now I didn't wanted my wife to think that I was thinking about converting so I was pretty quiet about that it during I'll back up a during the time I was getting attacked for prosecuting Jack Kevorkian well a Catholic woman said you know what you are one of my constituents you know you have to hear this priest and he speaks every week at this small chapel at this woman's house in Grosse Pointe Michigan his name was father John Hardin I don't know if you ever heard of course of course so I went catechism was key Bolger I went I went to this one time I went to this small chapel in Grosse Pointe Michigan sat at the back of the room and here's at that time he was already old buddy here's this man that's speaking and he at that time I don't know if you recall he would speak after Mass and he'd have a radio a telephonic hookup with people all across the country and then he'd give his homily and this homily was about angels now I remember reading about angels in the Bible but that was it I never really thought as deep as he was going into angels and in my mind I said boy this guy's really holy and I just it just you know I put it in back in my mind when I got seriously interested in the church I asked my wife Marilyn I said Marilyn he's going to be speaking at this place and near Detroit would you see if he would be willing to talk to me so she did go and she met with father Hardin secretary and the secretary said he's a very busy man we'll try to fit him in and so I did go talk to him he was very helpful he said okay the first thing I want to he gave me a bunch of reading assignments one of the books that he gave me and I think is very astute he gave me a history of the Catholic Church I can't recall the author I think as locks or something like that la UX anyway there you learn the Catholic Church has always been in turmoil I'm he is going up and down and so you understand that you know nowadays if there's some kind of terminal going on we've had those problems before the church has always survived and I got so interested in I you know I lost my job because of prosecuting Kevorkian oh I did you oh yeah I did at that time 70% of the people supported what Jack Kevorkian was doing in my County which is a county of a 1.2 million at the time 50% of Catholics according to polls supported what he was doing you didn't expect that did you well I see I never made again I was not looking at it as a religious issue anyway so I was just looking I'm just doing my I took an oath enforcing the law right I'm enforcing the law or wherever it lands it lands anyway I started to speak with father hard and then I didn't have a job I said father hard he didn't drive I'll Drive you around I became his chauffeur okay so I start driving him anywhere just to get close to him to be able to talk to him the funny thing is he'd get in the car the first thing to do is pull out his rosary and he'd say his rosary you know if it's 15 minutes he'd be saying as rosalie if it's an hour drive he'd still be saying it's rosary because every time he'd meet someone he'd say I'll pray for it I'll pray the rosary for you so that's what he did and he was you know he's not as I don't know the whole process of sainthood I know they started the process tremendous theologian you know I respect him still respect him on my own as in my desk now on my desk now at the Thomas More Law Center I have a photograph of him I've got some relics of him on that photograph and you know he said we have to capture the zeal of the early Christians if we are to survive as a nation so I mean he was a blend that really brought me in the church and then March 25th I didn't know how significant that was the date March 25th but he said on March 25th I'm going to bring you into the church we had a mass and you know and I was brought into the church on that day in 1998 and one of the things he said was you know to be a Catholic you have to carry the cross and you have to surrender your will to God and that's that's what you have to do and I think that's what we Catholics have to do today and I try to do that in my daily life now well when when you were meeting with father Hardin for example awakening your faith well why not just go with what you had always been what was there about the Catholic Church you said no no I this is it had the answer I mean again it had the answers the deep answers you don't just say the Bible says this I mean you know as a as a Protestant we would say you know the Bible says this and that was it response but you know say well what makes a Bible right you know we I yeah you know I never really went that far but the church you know I Protestant Protestants not realize or a lot of them don't realize it's a Catholic Church that brought the canons right the Bible together but it was a deeper feeling it was a it was a understanding that almost any question you could go to the Magisterium of the church and fighting the right answer you think about it and find the right answer so the Magisterium of the church has this underlying tradition and faith that I don't think the Protestants have and and we say Protestants are incomplete Catholics you know if they go a little further you know they're going to find the truth out well the situation that you found yourself in with that very trial here's this the issue can I justify killing a mercy killing can I justify that well Bible alone the fact that what you were saying was that how many percentage of your whole county was against this what you were trying to 70 percent yeah Bible believing folk yes Bible yeah it did it was a moral relativism I think that took over and it was a nice it was like this it was evil with a smile you know because of the sound did good you're trying to put people away who don't have a quality of life therefore it was as humanitarian evil and it's so rational and that's what made it dangerous it could you could argue it in rational terms and a lot of people succumb to that but you know every life has intrinsic value you know in the Catholic faith and God believes that they're all God's children so I think you develop that kind of understanding that you there is objective truths and you that's what the Catholic Church I think is about it gives you the armament it gives you the ammunition to fight against let's say the HHS mandate regardless of what the government says and I think it becomes more and more important today for Catholics to know their faith and also to do something about it it's not just it's not enough just to know your faith that's the easy part the hard part is okay to know your faith and now to stand up against government and fight it and that's what I think more and more serious Catholics are doing well with organizations like yours it really keeps you know our good brothers and sister non Catholic brothers and sisters who love our Lord Jesus and and have a high respect for the Scriptures I mean we stand beside them on fighting these very issues and we're glad to do that but it the struggle that they are often left with is how to apply that in a culture that has so many voices and pressures I mean you and I could talk probably a long time about historically how these very issues like your issue is not brand new right and go back to the 1930s we can point a finger at Germany but it's also here in the United States these very issues of Christian people trying to figure out and one of those issues is what I think your Center really I'm sure deals with and that is when does a person honor the state or when does a person standing it's the same how do you know if it's left up to just your own conscience and how you interpret the scripture how do you gonna know that your interpretation that is true yeah right and you know we have a this country is such a great country because if we go back to our founding fathers they said freedom of religion is the first freedom that we have and Thomas Jefferson basically said religious freedom is the cornerstone of our society and it's surmounts the power of the civilian Authority James Madison said the same thing so we have a we have a nation that was built on religious freedom and now that freedom is being attacked as is is under attack and that's where you have you know like Cardinal Francis George said I will die in bed my successor may die in prison and his successor will die martyr in the public square so we you know Cardinal George is not someone that deals in hyperbole I mean this is these are very deep concerns he has about religious freedom as well as Cardinal Raymond Burke whom I know who is now a what I would call the Justice of the Supreme Court in the Vatican he said just a couple of years ago that Christians are an attack are under attack they're being persecuted it is a war and it's you know and my concern is a lot of Christians don't know that a lot of Christians aren't aware of the culture war that's going on and one of the things that we have to do is say hey the Constitution is a nice elegant piece of paper but it's worthless unless you utilize it unless you live it the words are great but you have to really implement those words and that's what the Thomas More Law Center attempts to do in the courts I think John Adams said something like you know this democracy will never work without a people a religious and a lot of people yes I mean you're almost quoting him verbatim our Constitution was made for religious and moral people it is unfit or any other kind and of course George Washington said religion and more and more ality are indispensable supports for our government I mean our government was based on religious principles we can't we should not withdraw from that or else I think we would disintegrate we've also seen how the democracy which in this country is the great experiment here we are 200 some years into the great experiment in which our founding father says that this thing ain't going to survive without a more religious and moral people but then we see that democracy lifted and dropped into other cultures and then don't always work it it doesn't work I mean you have to have a again you have to have the religious base for democracy to work our founding fathers realized if we're going to have a government that is governed by the consent of the people we have to have a moral people we have to end to have immoral people you have to have a religious people so that we have a good government and so in other areas I don't know if you ever want to get into this but we are you know that right now a big threat is Islam all over the all over the world we try to enforce our form of government onto those countries those countries have a different religious base a different philosophy they don't contrary to what a lot of people say they don't worship the same God we we worship if you look at the characteristics the way we understand the way we understand it so you you just can't take Christianity and drop it in a country and say okay we're going to make you democratic now and that's a concern we have my concern is you know America is I believe this exceptional this shining city on the hill we have an exceptionalism of as far as our history goes and I think we have to fight to keep it that way if we die is you know as a nation as Abraham Lincoln said it will won't be from power from across the ocean it will be suicide that's what I'm concerned well even as we speak not long ago you know we saw democracy in a in a most mostly Islamic country where they voted a president didn't like him so they ousted here a new president they out they don't like him the ouster you know I mean that's not democracy that's that's exactly what our founders must know democracy isn't every individual just majority votes as a representative democracy is a very important purpose right and you know our birth certificate was the Declaration of Independence you know where we acknowledged our rights come from God that's where we not and that's important our rights don't come from the government it comes from God and every once in a while we have to let the government know our rights come from something above the above you and even the issue that the most important thing about who we are as Americans isn't our rights I mean once we make that the most important thing right the trajectory of that it's chaos we always yeah and that's a good point yeah I mean you're making a great point there and that is you know we're always trying to develop new rights you know new right we always want to give a new right animal rights you know etc etc etc and so that we can then enforce those rights in the court and that's that's not that's not right a break dick in just a moment we'll come back and one of the first things I want to ask them we get back is how did your Yorkin Catholic well two things I'm gonna ask one is your faith how did it affect your your understanding of law and second I also want to ask when you're drawn to the Catholic Church but you're also recognizing that 50% of the Catholics in your County didn't weren't believing what the Catholic Church you believe how did that affect your understanding of the faith why so look we'll do that we come back right see that welcome back our guest tonight is richard thompson and a former protestant president of chief and chief counsel the Thomas More Law Center and again sww Thomas Moore one word orgy and have I just just so honored to be talking to you because of the you you you've you and your staff put yourselves on the front lines there's you know we talked about vocations in the church you know as vocation to priesthood as vocation to jaqen at this vocation to religious life but everyone has a vocation and it's seeking to follow that where God calls us to serve and that's one thing I'm thinking about here you become a Catholic how did that affect your understanding of law as a lawyer well as I said when I you know when I became a lawyer I didn't connect the religion at all with the law I looked at the precedent and and basically I had a black book that had all the important cases that I needed when I went into court to argue the case I didn't I you know I had to get defeated I had to get defeated as a prosecutor and at a time and I used to when I was going through this I went back to the Bible and I'll tell you I read a lot of verses from Psalms because you know there's some of those verses you know they say kill my enemy how come all these anguish going on I couldn't understand why I was doing my job as I had taken an oath to do and yet the people didn't understand that that's what I was doing I was enforcing the law so I think I had I had to suffer that defeat when I suffered that defeat I didn't have a job I had three children I was in I was 60 years old I had before I got beat I could I could tell because of the polls and I told my wife don't buy any major appliances at the time because I knew I was when but it gave me the time to think about bigger things it gave me the time to figure out what my life was going to be about and that time is when I reached out the father Harden I start reading a lot of books on religion and you know became involved with the Catholic faith and now that faith is what keeps me going when we have when we go into court normally the judges are against us right as soon as we walk in you know this is a this is a Christian public interest law firm and so they're going to kind of slap us down you know we got involved with a lot of the HHS mandate cases we've brought cases on behalf of Catholic businessmen but of businessmen but we've also brought a couple of cases on behalf of Protestants right here you said earlier the Southern Baptist Church the convention supports the Catholic Church on this issue because they understand if they defeat the cat if the Catholic Church is defeated then other denominations are just easy prey so it's important but another case just to give you an example we just resolve this case in the favor our client a boy by the name of Daniel Glowacki 16 year old went to public school the public school had a pro homosexual day they called it anti bullying but a lot of times that's just a way to get into the school system he was in economics class the teacher they got involved in the discussion a teacher asked this young man 16 year old what do you think about homosexuality and the young man said I'm against it much but my religion is against it the teacher lost his mind kicked them out of class suspended him for a day wanted to do further things as far as punishing goes the homosexual community got up in arms they attacked the young man 16 years old they attack his parents as you know bringing up his bigoted son and we filed a lawsuit in federal court on behalf of Daniel Glowacki we just ended that case where a federal judge that Daniel Glowacki has a free speech right once he was asked by his teacher what his opinion was he had a free speech right to express that opinion and that decision now has spread throughout the entire United States because the Education Weekly said if you're going to talk about bullying and homosexuality be aware that you cannot condemn or take disciplinary action against a young man or a young woman who stands up and says my faith says homosexuality is wrong this sounds like a key case I mean really is yeah I've got we've got friends who are on EWTN who live in England who talk about over there you know they're in to the point where they can't even put in print anything against the the gay lobby or they themselves might find themselves in jail every time we do Marcus every time we take a stand against homosexual agenda we get a lot of hate mail we get a lot of people calling us with all kinds of Paul Garrity but we just now realize that you're going to get a lot of flak if you're on target you know so we just get it would get a lot of flak like that but that that's a way imitating people and Catholics have to be aware of that's just an intimidation tactic they should stand up for their faith speak out for their faith and take action for their faith from your perspective you have seen I mean you and I both got a little bit of gray hair at least you still have your hair because you've got more brain cells you know what the dirt out there but in our lifetimes we were young we would never have dreamed so much that has changed and from Europe where you sit as a lawyer looking at the kinds of cases how do we get here you know what's changing it from your perspective better well the Supreme Court had several decisions come out you know they said homeless they said pornography is a constitutional right they in 1960 they eliminated a school prayer in 1962 they eliminated bible-reading in the schools in 1980 they eliminated ten commandments from hanging on school walls in 1989 they said no more nativity scenes on the public grounds 1992 they said no more prayers and graduation the Supreme Court basically has determined the direction of our culture and they have been inordinately influenced by the ACLU that's one of the reasons why we got involved in the public interest law firm Christian's always thought well if you elect someone and you're gonna be able to control the direction of the country not true the Supreme Court ultimately determines what is right and what is wrong they bake to they take up the cases determine the constitutionality for instance Obamacare they said it was constitutional now proposition 8 in California they said well you you don't have a right to challenge it so we're going to go back to the original case which was by the way decided by a homosexual judge against proposition 8 the the DOMA the Defense Against The Marriage Act again another case where the Supreme Court said is unconstitutional so the Supreme Court is directing the the direction or is determining the direction of our country that's what's happened and that's why organizations like the Thomas More Law Center is deciding to fight it and all these other ministries are very important your ministry is important education is very important but this is a front that we have neglected and I think it's important for us to say okay we have to attack and defend ourselves in the courtrooms you know well you know what it is when John Paul wrote in his wonderful encyclical Christopher Dennis Lee hu which is nothing impossible to layer you one of the points in there is that certainly it is good when bishops and Cardinals take a stand on these issues but this realm is the realm of the laity that's right and that's why it's important for Catholic men and women of principal take a stand which could mean a career but you're taking a stand right okay and I see a day when we're going to be defending priests and and bishops as their purse brought in being prosecuted because they said something from the pulpit anti Houma homosexual or anti-government that's where we're going as he said in Canada and in England that's already happening right right and it just shows you that if you're if you're who understand enough law is basically what's the precedent here's the case what precedent are we setting if that's all that decides it because sometimes it sounds like you've got to challenge the precedent yes you have to go back and find the rationale why did our founding fathers say this what was the rationale be be behind the First Amendment you know Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof why did they say that why they said that was because they did not they wanted religion to be in the public square they wanted religion to be informative of our people what they didn't want is the federal government deciding which religion it was going to be it was more of a battle between denominations Christian denominations that's what it was about but we've taken this myth of separation of church and state and made it into a constitutional principle well there is no phraseology in the Constitution that says separation of church and state and it's a very good argument there was a book put out by a I think a professor it was published by Harvard with said the separation of church and state was developed as an anti-catholic anti-catholic menu to sort of reduce the the authority of the Catholic Church because they didn't think Protestants were churches you know they had different you know they were not a hierarchical church like the Catholic churches and and they wanted to reduce the power because the church at that time had the parochial schools going on you know they didn't like that idea too well so well again as history gets written generation after generation and as people edit and put their history books in they choose what goes in those books and what sad - yeah that's a sad part of it and I was just recently at Philadelphia and had a great chance of the privilege of going into the institutional hall you know the hall were the Constitution right and all that and visited that and and the the government guide was giving us a tour giving us a 15-minute summary and why the referee revolution happened and Chris was all about the Stamp Act in the Stamp Act and I'm every when I had a chance to pull her aside I said I know in your preparation as you prepared for the Stamp Act did you ever hear the Quebec Act No and Sam Adams founding father Durov are one of the founding fathers said I have a quote saying he feared the Quebec Act more than the Stamp Act why the Quebec Act because the Catholic Church was now free to live and survive and have up in Canada and so that was one of the main impetus behind everything you're talking about that it was there behind them the fear of the Catholic Church was there at the very beginning it most most of our founding fathers had never met a Catholic I mean because there weren't any Catholic was signed to decorate was it John Carroll right right yeah and the point is you know the battle you're having the battle that we were having you know it's they're not going to change our opinions but what we're concerned about is what's going to happen to our children and our grandchildren who are being indoctrinated into a whole new brave new world that's what the battle is about the future of America I've got an email Scott from Waterbury what I have read of the history of Catholics in America it seems that through the years they haven't been quite accepted for their beliefs and often were treated with suspicion do you think this is true today and if so should Catholics just accept that we are called to be in this world but not of it I think first of all his premise is accurate that there has been a whole history of anti-catholicism anti-catholicism still exists it is the prejudice of the intellectual class to be anti-catholic but I think that we are supposed to be what the light of the world the salt of the earth we can't give up we should try to get as many people to heaven as we can that should be our mission that's a commission that we got from Christ and so don't give up I understand what he's saying we should be how did he say of this world right whatever not of the world but in it in it and what we should we should be you know spreading the gospel spreading the gospel of Christ that's what the Commission he gave to the disciples and that's what we should be doing and I think particularly in a work like yours recognizes that this with the battles we are being called to fight that we need to stand side-by-side with brothers and sisters that may not share everything right in the same but there are non Catholic Christians as well as Jewish and other religious men of men and women of religion that yet equally recognized the fight against evil our culture is a judeo-christian right culture and you're you're absolutely right about 50% of our cases we're representing Protestants because they are engaged in challenging the culture as it exists today as well as as we are there's one case where we're representing a Franken booth Michigan they have a 55-foot steel cross at the begin the entrance to their city and it was it was erected in 1917 in 1976 to commemorate the 200th anniversary of the American Revolution and when that cross was erected Frankenmuth is a very Lutheran town when that cross chickens do a lot of good chickens yeah chicken dinners and when that cross was erected they had a Lutheran minister that gave a blessing and they gave they had a Catholic priest that gave a blessing and now the Americans United for separation of church and state says that cross has to come down because it's on it's on government land the city fathers said we put that cross up in grateful recognition of what our founding fathers did and what the Bavarian immigrants did in Frankenmuth we're gonna fight for it and that's the message we sent to Americans United for separation of church and state is the community is not going to take it down so take your best shot but you know so we have a lot of support in other denominations and they feel as strongly as we do in certain areas and we have to support them in those areas as they support us as well well as you mentioned when they took the poll on I'm not on the kevorkian trial I mean we've come so far that that such a high percentage of our culture they're contr conscience --is are not formed well enough to see the evil in this it's the loving thing to do they think as they did with abortion it's a loving thing to do a woman's right so what about the child's rights you know that the conscience has become a long way so we have to fight together yeah you mentioned abortion how did abortion become a constitutional right it wasn't in the Constitution the federal the Supreme Court created it out of thin air and all once it's a constitutional right what 50 million children have been killed unborn children have been killed under this so-called constitutional right yeah yeah we've got a long way to go but we stand together I mean that's why the program we're reaching out another email Carol from Boston what are some ways that committed Catholics can become more involved in fighting today's culture wars it seems more and more that a line is being drawn in the sand and there is a need to actively witness to the truth of the gospel absolutely that is she's almost answer her question and you know Pope Leo the 13th said Christians were born for combat you know Christ when he saw the mummy moneychangers in the temple if he wanted peace all he had to do is turn around and walk away you know he would have had peace but what did he do he turned around and you know whipped the fashioned the Scourge and chased the money changers out so to me that's a that's a story of peace is not the goal righteousness is the goal then Catholics have to understand that you have to speak out they have to take strong action whether it's reaching out to the people around them whatever they have supporting at Thomas More Law Center supporting Catholic education I think all of those things are important but we have to take a stand and we were born for combat yeah the other side of that was at a time when the Apostles turned to Jesus as says you know we need to bring down fire and brimstone take care of this what God could do that but to know he said no no it's your job yeah it's you guys he said you know when he went up to and Gethsemane this is uh you know he went up to pray and he told the the Apostles stay awake and pray and they fell asleep and two or three times three times he came to them and the third time the Apostles were there Judas was there with the you know with the guards and they took him away the point is we have to be awake we have to pray that prayer is very important but we have to stay awake and we have to do the fighting that's you know Christ gave us that commission so let's do it if we believe that we are the salt of the earth the light of the world then then we have to show that we are conscious needs to be formed we need to have the right information but another part of why the Catholic Church is important is the graces of the sacraments yes if you talk about the importance of those in your life and even in your work well you know Father harden used to say I'll go I you know he died in 2000 I wish he was still here so I could be talking to him we all could be talking to but he used to said the crisis of the Catholic Church is the crisis of priesthood he said many priests now in the seminaries that were coming out didn't believe in the sacrament and that it was the body and blood of Christ although I think newer priests now coming out it seems to be a lot more strong and he kept on saying that the crisis of the church is a crisis of priesthood if we have good priests they will be the ones that form our conscience at 83 years old I remember he was he was there was a person that we'd be prosecuting for armed robbery and he wanted and he was a Catholic but he lost his home so he went rob some banks got caught he didn't want to tell his wife that he was out of a job so he asked for a priest priest wouldn't come because you know it was after hours father Hardin at 80 some years old I visited him in jail yeah there are a lot of you know I I found out there a lot of great priests that we never hear about I stopped at a church in New Jersey on the way taking my sons to college and I heard this great homily by this priest you know using his late 40s or fifty years old and one of the best homilies I've ever heard of no one will ever hear about this priest but there are out there there are some great priests out there and we have to support them because many times I think I think they feel they're alone you know if they get to if they oppose homosexuality or if they talk about abortion some of the parishioners will get very angry will stop coming to the church yeah even if they call their congregation to a life of simplicity yeah we live in a material okay so those kinds of priests they need our support and there are out there and they are speaking out but we just don't hear about email from Eva from Roanoke with all the problems and evil that we as Christians encounter in today's society how can we keep the right perspective or balance and are there encouraging signs that good things are happening there are all there is always hope it has to be a realistic hope you keep your balance by I think one of the ways that father Hardin indirectly showed me is read the history of the Catholic Church we've had these kinds of turmoils before read the history of America we've had you know Civil War 600,000 people were killed on both sides we've had troubles in the you know the the authorities were against the Catholic Church in the 1840s they were burning down churches they were burning down we've had these problems we've always survived and the Catholic Church has become a very strong voice for righteousness and that's why it is now the target of so many secularists because they are afraid of the Catholic Church I might end the story of my fight with assisted suicide and that was this seventy percent as I said 70% of the people supported physician assisted suicide Jack Kevorkian was able to put it on the ballot when it got on the ballot the Catholic Church mobilized in Michigan and they started this proper that they started a campaign against it for week after week the homily was on assisted suicide people were allowed they had yard signs in the in the back of the church people took those yard signs within the six week period of time that that campaign was going on the church changed the opinion polls to where 71% supported or opposed physician assisted suicide and Jack Kevorkian lost that battle which showed to me that when the church mobilizes when the priests and the bishops get behind a position and utilize the kinds of political tools that were utilized in that case we can see we can overcome the evil that is in this society we have to speak out strongly against same-sex marriage you know that's a really a dangerous aspect people don't realize that we're not just talking about same-sex marriage a lot of intellectuals say if you allow same-sex marriage it will ultimately mean the death of traditional marriage in our society well as you said that we have a lot of lawyers maybe a high percentage maybe the majority of lawyers look at these issues from precedence here's the issue and we set new precedents right some of these things get become precedents right and we've just opened a can of worms for the future that you know and that's the concern with this latest round of Supreme Court decisions on traditional marriage versus same-sex marriage and sadly we have was it five five of our justices are Catholic the justice that made the decision Justice Kennedy it's a Catholic I don't know yeah any its it is it's that it is a battle but we were always going to have battles the church is the church militant that's what we're supposed to be doing confronting evil every day let's say we got a good Catholic or Christian young man or woman sitting watching this wondering what if I should go into law if you're going to go into law and you go into law for the the right reason that it's defending the church I would suggest it if you're going to go into law just to make money I don't think it's it's a worthwhile profession you you you may there are some lawyers that make a lot of money but it's that feeling that you have a commitment to a cause that the lawyers that we have in our office say yeah they're committed to the cause and they don't build time they they basically want to win the case and they'll put in whatever time they need to to win the case and we are you know confronting evil I mean the principalities of darkness and evil we realize that and that's at the core if they want to utilize you know their their intellectual powers that God gave them in a good way I got three ways become a priest become a lawyer that's involved in public interest and the third one you might not you might be surprises become an officer in the United States Army there's so many you know our army right now is you know regardless of what our military is protecting our nation as we going through this internal turmoil and now they're attacking the military they're trying to take away Christianity from the military so yeah yeah once again you choose the precedence being set and how we never turn back the clock on some of these things thank you very much nice being we thank you for joining bit particularly blessings on your work thank you again for the audience ww Thomas Moore if you wanted to find out more about it thank thank you thank you for joining us this episode of the journey home god bless you see actually

Channel: EWTN

Views: 8,370

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Protestantism (Religion), Thomas More Law Center, JHT01401

Id: mIexime3h0w

Length: 56min 20sec (3380 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 13 2013