The Jamel Shabazz Story: Street Photography Visionary

we as Visionaries have been given a Divine gift you know whether you be a poet photographer a painter a writer we need all hands on deck right now two as Visionaries to make this world a better place [Music] Jamil Shabazz is a new york-born photographer who has inspired a generation of Street photographers of young black photographers going out and seeing the world in a new way I have Goosebumps I've been waiting for this moment for an incredibly long time guys I present to you no one was able to get shots like that back in the day it was like a visual Diary Of My Life when you look at those pictures you look at seconds in my life that's the shot then you go to Old School [Music] is in the house let's go I'm so I'm so so happy to have you as a guest thank you so much for taking the time to be on behind the picture man how are you today I'm doing great you know I have no complaints and I love feeling wonderful today and it's a joy to reconnect with you after all of these years the reason that we all carry cameras downtown it should be an honor and a privilege to be in front of you today I appreciate that so much Camille the first question that I have for you how did photography Find You Came to Me by way of my father who was a professional photographer and he absolutely loved the craft when we lived in Brooklyn in the 1960s he he had converted out small apartment into a studio and he would photograph us as as kids you know my sister and my siblings and he would photograph the neighbors so early on in my life I would watch my father set the lights in our living room and convert our living room into the studio so I didn't understand what was going on at that time but I knew he was a photographer and his time progressed I started looking at the family photo albums that he treasured my father took great pride in holding on to the albums that were passed on to him from generation to generation so those albums sit very prominent on our fourth me table so the young child you know I would go through these albums and see images of my father when he was younger my mother and just the family so I knew early on that there was power in photography and the documentation of of family history the past social Generation generation so at that age I was introduced to him and then my father had a vast library of Photography books so as a young child about five six years old I started going through his library and seeing the world it's like my whole world opened up as a young child unbeknownst to my father I'm looking at all his photography books the first one that I was introducing that really blew my mind was what's called Black and White America by Leonard freed what made this particular book unique it was signed on our tape and this is about 1968. I'm seven eight years old and I'm looking at this book here and whatever reason it's tailored made for me because it's speaking about being black in America at that time and I didn't know what was going on I wasn't being taught this in school that one book in or me not only photographically but you know I would have the dictionary as a young child that's the same words that I didn't understand so it came to me when I was still really in my in my single digits and I watched before he carried his camera every week when he would go in the shooting and returned he would lay out all his equipment and clean it and I studied it and I didn't understand it until years later it wasn't until maybe when I was 15 that I really understood what my father did but you know as a young child I just remember the family and friends always telling my father you always got your camera with you because he learned in the Navy you know he's six years in the United States Navy where he was trained in some of the best one of the best schools in the world the United States Naval School of Photography and and he would travel throughout the Mediterraneans the 17 year old kid back in 1955 you know so that's pretty much where my interest in photography came when did you realize that you had a talent for photography it came really early on to be honest but you not want to speak about the influence that a noted gang member had in my neighborhood back in 1975. I had a really close friend Winston that took me to his cousin's home who belonged to a game called the Jolly Stompers and what I felt fascinated about going there was he had these large photo albums of the game he was an unofficial photographer for the game these portraits are some of the most incredible images I've ever seen in my entire life what he documented was a game called the Jolly Stoppers and they were a combination between African-American and Caribbean Union and it had a very unique room boy style and these were the older guys so when I saw these albums of these Alpha Brothers back in the days I immediately said I wanted to be a photographer despite the fact that I had already saw it worked in my father documented and through looking at the various Publications such as National Geographic Life Magazine ebony these particular order address would grab me because these were older guys in my neighborhood and they were dressed already Dapper so after leaving Cornell's home I immediately returned back to my house and my mother was a novice photographer she had a lot of Kodak intimatic cameras laying around the house the 110 the 126 always had film in it that she would photograph you know different parties so I snatched those cameras up immediately I had the vision because I had already been looking at all the rest for years earlier so I knew how to frame was shot and I knew how to actually take an image of being steady so I immediately returned back to my junior high school and I started autographing my friends with the leftover film that was in the camera and back in those days you took the film to the local drugstore and when I did I was blown away to see that these images came out well it was just point and shoot but nevertheless the composition and the subject matter was strong and at that point I just decided I wanted to be a photographer and I immediately transformed from being a graffiti artist to abrasive photography and I started carrying the camera to school every day and my friends would chip in and help Me by film help me get the film out and once Jim came out I would get them out as gifts and now I became known as what as a photographer early on at 15 years old and I kept that up for a couple years and then my parents divorced and I didn't have money anymore so I went in the military but I still have those photographs right now and they mean the world of me because it shows my early beginning trying to mirror the photograph that Cornell had as a jolly song talk to me about now that you've been established yes this is what my calling is how did you start did you just go out and start making photographs who guided you as far as being a actual photographer that's a great question it really started when I came home from the Army in the summer of 1980. I was stationed in Germany for three years and during my time over there I bought my photographs that I had made earlier with me and they always served as a reminder of my friends and we are people so about when I was in Germany when I returned back to the States I will never be without memory again so I had purchased a Canon ae1 when I was in Germany and I came home and I was living with my father and this is great and he was so excited that uh now I'm in into photography with having a 35 millimeter prior had the instamatic so my father took me a week and he started to teach me the science of Photography prior it was just point and shoot now he he introduced me to his library and he instructed me to revisit Black and White America by Leonard free understand composition and life he also instructed me to read the whole series of the time life series on photography to understand themes composition like speed journalism War photography and I went through all that then a friend of mine who who decided to change his to uh who was a photographer himself decide to go into the drug trade he gave me his Omega enlarges and when I bought that larger home my father helped me establish a dark room in our laundry room and he's really excited now that his son has this Vision to want to follow his footsteps so my father said at the dark room he instructed me you know we went and got paper and the chemicals he told me about the importance of getting Triax 400 film the document your room first and I found that to be boring light and composition he wanted me to start with that first to do a stupid talk because I came home with a lot of stereo albums and books and I found that to be boring then he said I want you to document the block just walk around and photograph what you said and I found that's being a little boring but I get it and I'm glad I did but what moved me being at this came off the military was my friends and I ended up going back to my local high school and I trained My Lens there because there was a lot going on during that time I wanted to reconnect the camera now gave me a voice it's one thing to approach people with and greet them but now I have a camera Brothers is wearing gazelles and she games and they were this is a really stylish generation so now I'm eager to document the local high school I had about six months off from the military you know you know came home to a new decade because I left in the 70s and now I'm coming home in 1980 and so much has changed you know it's a very Vibrant Community right now and everyone is stylish so my high school was about maybe five blocks from my house so I took my camera my father said always walk with your camera have it out and at the ready keep with the 400 film keep it at about 5.6 and 120 triples a second so he drilled with me on that and always have your camera out ready no cat he was was one that didn't believe in having caps on the camera so always be ready so I went back to my high school a lot of the guys and girls that were going to high school I knew their older brothers and sisters where I went to school with so I went back and I started communicating with it it reminds me so much of Marvin Gaye's song what's happening Brother I returned back to the scene and I want to know what's going on and now I want to have the vision and guide me everybody I met in my life because when I was in the Army I promised myself I would have a visual Diary of maybe when I met so now I'm photographing kids and I'm using it first of all before I even photograph them I'm engaged in conversation because I want to know what's going on before the react came evidence of the conversation and at the same time I use this position to speak to young kids about the importance of Education the importance of having goals and objectives myself just got back to America and I made a change in my life because when I went to high school I kind of like went a straight so I'd use my position to be a mentor to young people and then taking and making an image of them it helped to create a bomb of course I would make the image my father wanted contact sheets so once I got the film process I would get the contact Shoes go back we would look at them he would make corrections I would make prints five five seven prints and eight by ten prints go back to the high school and get them out as gifts and then the words start to spread I didn't want anything in return so I would give out points and didn't help to build the relationship and with these points I started to to put them in portfolios and start traveling throughout Brooklyn with work now you know engaging a lot of young people saying look because I came home into a war zone too it's very important for me to say that I returned back to a city that was at War a lot of young men that were once friends and with each other whatever reason something happened during my time away there's a lot of conflict going on so I want to know what's going on it's traveling throughout the neighborhood of Brooklyn engaging him trying to get a field of what's going on for the record all of these young brothers and engaging conversation not knowing that a lot of them were enemies to one another but as a photographer I think like a mentor today and I was given a relationship unbeknownst to me they were Arts enemies to one another so I was paying behind it so my mission shifted a little bit from just wanting to be a photographer to now wanting to be a mentor and to engage young people about the senseless Violence by introducing to all the things I learned in the military I came home with a vast record collection so a lot of these young guys I'm bringing to my home where I would turn them on to the Jazz and the r b and the reggae I started teaching Brothers how to play chess and sisters because it was a former conflict resolution so some of my earlier photographs you see me with my camera around my neck and my chest board in my hand and my camera bag that was my standard equipment and my portfolio and I use that to build relationships with a lot of people and I started with the local high schools I went to one high school Samuel J Tillman and my neighbor the one I went to and I branched out to another high school I didn't really know nobody yet but I'd use that opportunity to just introduce myself show them the pictures I had which Drew people in and I started to photograph them and each time I pulled a rap young people I will return back and get them copies you know it's time for rest I started shooting more color and I would go to the one out of four the one out of the photo lab and I would go in the areas that were highly populated like downtown Brooklyn and I would take big images return give them out keep a copy for myself and build these relationships it was always about building a relationship that I wanted them to see what I wanted to do that's why I carry the work with me that's when my new book is based on my photo because I always carry it around a photo album because one thing you can hear what I'm saying but now I'm showing photographs of other young people and that was Detroit I love it I love it are you using that same Theory today do you carry photographs do you use your phone to share your work I remember the first time I met you and I want to touch on that in a minute but do you remember the first time you made money with your camera yeah I really didn't want any money believing I used to tell a lot of different people because you know they were young they don't really have a lot beside yo give me a quarter Tropicana or just a pound of Dance I got the pound of bananas breaking bread with young people we got the orange juice going around I didn't really want many of them how are you making money at that time that's I think the question that many of my viewers may have I know you worked in a correctional facility was that your job up while you were making these photographs for the first years when I came up with the military I was pretty much independent I saved up enough money in the service where I was able to live off there so that allowed me to survive so photography was never going to get business for me it was just a way of life in 1983 I became a correctional officer because I needed that validation right now and they had a 20-year pension and allowed me an opportunity to really take my crap to the next level that was my new assignment I needed to be into the jail so I looked at it as a guards assignment that was given to me because a lot of young men were falling victim's system so now have a I have a good paying job it now allows me to devote a lot of my time and energy towards my photography so that's very important to have a concrete day job and that's where it started photographing my co-workers for money because that's you know because out in uniform and that was a great source of income and I didn't really need that at that point but I just felt that it's good to understand the businesses not just do these eight by tens and give away for free but my co-workers is making money so I started to charge ten dollars for eight by ten not signed this past Cinema because a lot of for many of my co-workers they were taking photographs in the uniform for the first time after one where we changed that into a studio using the locker as a bat for you know even when I was in the community I was photographing you know for pretty much ten dollars because back then you get a roll of film process you get a free eight by ten so the free 8 by 10 I'll charge ten dollars to get me a few rolls of stuff that was pretty much throughout much of the 80s and early 90s what about the first time you ever saw your work published in a magazine how do you go from that person who is walking down the street with their camera to somebody who is at this point a household name how did you make that transition oh man that was an incredible experience during the 1990s you know when the crack epidemic hit a lot of people were losing their lives and they lost their weight you know people felt victim to using drugs or selling drugs and now I have this incredible value of work as I like to refer to as a time before a crack so I'm now working in Manhattan and I'm looking looking at magazines like Source trace and Vibe magazine and I'm looking at these beautiful pictures youth culture and I felt there was a void there so I gathered up my portfolios and I went to The Source magazine where there's no appointment I just had portfolio full of 8x10 prints and I happened to just go there you know you know I looked at the magazine got the location and I went I didn't know nobody at all and it was the strangest thing because I'm in the elevator and I did this brother in the elevator Eric Russ and he said to me what you got me bro I got a portfolio of images I want to bring them the sauce I think that this publication can appreciate this is 19.99. he said let me let me see what you and he looks at this portfolio about 25 images of Street porches from glickland 50 [ __ ] that would make up my book back in the day he says this is what we're looking for for our 100 issue he says we want to use all of these pictures about 100 issue and I was blown away behind this here and he took it when two thousand they gave me about 15 pages in The Source magazine brother and I was blown away when that issue came out they said that it sold out in almost two days people went crazy for because I had unlike the magazine which is focused on the Stars Street stars or real people who were terrible and they no one had ever seen that before in the magazine they said sold out in a matter of days people were feeding them for this issue of regular people and that's when it blew up and at that point I knew I realized I had something and I started going to other magazines I went to trace magazine and they did a feature and with Trace magazine on the Clark risky it provided me with exhibition opportunities now I went for I'm just publishing to now I have institutions in France wanting to Showcase my work so from from now going to trace magazine before I knew it I'm doing an exhibition in Paris for the very first time based off these same images I didn't realize I'm on something and I'm trying to Now understand how do you navigate through just publishing to now exhibit and work in that type of matter it was all new to me brother I had nobody to really guide me at that point I'm trying to figure this thing out now because it all came fast but not only the exhibition opportunities come now you know the next step was to go to the publisher so in 2000 The Source magazine came out and then in 2000 matter of fact later on that year I I saw a book that Powerhouse published I forgot the name would have escaped me right now so I decided to go to powwows so I went to Powerhouse with a portfolio laser copy prints and they looked at the work and they said this is what we've been looking for they said we're going to publish it but if you if you open your book about next year a year later September of 2001 my book back in the days came out and that was based off dismantling photo albums no Photoshop I just took apartment you look at the book back in the days those are actual 4x6 prints it came out of three years of photo albums converted into a pool everything was never really my best work but I was at Powerhouse make that decision and when that book came out in 2001 the first edition sold out in two months and the second edition sold out in two weeks and it became a blockbuster and I was I was shocked behind it and now it's in I believe it's in a celebrity edition I still can't believe it of course I've always felt it wasn't my best work but I'm thankful for Fairfax ready for writing that incredible introduction the colic helped give it even greater ways you know so that's pretty you know starting from the publishing industry to you know taking a side of the book I never wrote a proposal I just said let me just go to the public so I went against the brain because normally you have to write a proposal and all that I went directly to powwows at a good time because they had pretty much just got established today was a new small Mama pops operation so I caught them at a good time and I was able to give them a blockbuster to my surprise that's an incredible incredible story we're now in and around 99 which the timelines align 2000 2001 and I'm shooting streetwear I'm shooting fashion more Street fashion because hip-hop is really breaking and I'm starting to shoot big rappers like Pharrell and Kanye West and I'm starting to travel and I'm going to New York for the first time I met George Pitts the late George Pitts from Vibe magazine who I'm sure you know and Miss in 96 that was my first time in New York and he introduced me to photographers like you that were he said at that time you're good enough to shoot for Vibe magazine but there's also some other photographers that were good enough so he photocopied my portfolio and then he put my portfolio on the bottom of a stack that was if I'm sitting it's up here I love photocopies I'm sure you remember George pitts's office right so he took my portfolio and stuffed it in the bottom of photocopies that were as high as the room and then he said this Jamil he said let me show you a photographer that I'm gonna publish that came in and saw me before you and he pulled photocopies of photographs and those photographs were Jamil Shabazz and that understand that George Pitts showed me Jameel Shabazz he showed me Robert Maxwell and he showed me Christian Witkin which is Peter witkin's son and looking at your photographs advertising agencies started to like steal your style steal your essence and hire other photographers to shoot like you for their campaigns I just remember that time you were more famous and more talented and people were taking advantage of your work your style your influence and they weren't paying it back forward to the person who was the originator so talk to me about that that's a really great observation in this day because it took me like many years I think I'm just starting to get work for companies now but throughout much of the 2000s you know nobody really hide you know at that point you know not for campaigns anything you know even with Vibe magazine I could do beaches but I was never given in any real opportunities to shoot in any of the celebs and it was all right with that because you know my phone is really the street but what I start to look at what I wouldn't do at that point was all right fine I started going through a lot of Galleries and I I saw it in my work belonged in museums and institutions of Higher Learning that's what I wanted to be you know I wasn't really a person to magazine at that point they served their purpose you know they featured my work and that was great to help me develop them whatever reason I realized that they were roadblocks that were put in my path and I wasn't going to get those jobs because I didn't look at people who started out after me that would get in those positions and I realized that there was something that was there I didn't quite know what it was and I didn't take it personal but I continued to drop to drive on because I knew that one day this work would mean something to somebody and I and I persevered and I did not let anything turn me whatsoever and I created a vast body of work where it just wasn't rooted in my traditional style of opposed images but I was doing fashion my own fashion magazines weren't hiring me I would meet people at Starbucks young brothers and sisters that had aspirations or I saw talent I said yo check this out I like your Vibe you know and I used to design clothes and clothes I was now a lot of young people give them eyes to shine so a lot of the work that I have in exhibitions right now in Publications are a lot of the young brothers and sisters I met early on who just worked in in stores who were at a crossroad over their lives and I was selling the photograph them and create my own stuff I will find locations and photo Raptors and create a really unique body work and give them the photographs for free of course I knew that there was weren't going to be any doors open to me and all those photographs now that I've made during that time period of everyday people who I styled on my own dating major Publications right now like the hip-hop jewelry book uh the new book on Fresh fly and fabulous I make it a coin there's some images of those people I call the rep some 10 20 years ago who maybe didn't get this shot and then but they get it now but I'll say during the past maybe eight years I'll say maybe in 10 years a lot of companies are now reaching out especially with the birth to the back of the anniverses of hip-hop over time from the 20th to 30th to 40th to 50 people now reaching out to me so I've been unfortunate to have done work with Puma Pro kids and pony but it took a while to get to that particular point we have to look at the Masters for inspiration and for me that's why I started this interview series you were the first on my list as people I wanted to interview you've always mentored the next generation of photographers and I just want to touch a little bit about how I met you shay said I brought someone to meet you you said the kindest words that I think any other photographer that I respect so much has ever said and we had some time together and you said this you are a master you need a book how come you're not publishing and it was because of brother Jamil Shabazz I the next year dropped my first coffee table book which is called positives which is the year that we exhibited together and we did three generations of hip-hop that's started something for me I want to tell you the compliments that you gave to me that day and you also you had a print that you wanted to give me but then you didn't want to give me because you wanted to give me another one can we talk a little bit about three generations of Hip Hop oh shut up Steve Carney put your Mulcher pass Steve Cardy Jamal Shabazz Steve Carney Jamal Shabazz cardi Jay kathare [Music] and and that show and you bringing your work to Toronto exhibiting photography at the Jerome Jenner smash Gallery my name is cardi Steve Carney photographer from Toronto my name is doing workshops here us doing a walk and talk together mentoring the kids that came out that were supporting the show for me seeing how you do that seeing how you are as a teacher anytime you have a camera in your hand anytime you see someone with the camera you're sharing information you're sharing knowledge you're sharing wisdom you're inspiring you're always about uplifting I stole that from you way back then and I've been doing my best I started doing workshops I want you to know I started doing workshops right around that time of our first three generations of hip-hop and I haven't stopped with that paying it forward and I want to let you know you really started something for me that day so I gotta give you some love thank you so much for sharing but I got to give a shout out to all of my people at survival you know my man doc I get up a Montague Festival which really put my work on the map in a major way because you have these incredible images now of the New York Subway system instead of on the trains in Toronto and that was incredible for me because I never had that type of experience before and that allowed me that exhibition itself at his Gallery you know allowed me to really meet so many incredible people and I have to say I'm travel to a number of cities around the world Toronto is the number one city that's close to my heart I have never been so many incredible people in my life Under the Umbrella of the argument you know so you know I just I just had to just share that so many amazing people and to me you and shade was incredible at angelani and Ajani and so many amazing wonderful young humble photographers you're an artist poet you're a teacher to a brother you assisted your uncle and excuse this internal gift to bring about change leave me a higher purpose in life because really to be honest with you I wasn't doing a workshops before I came to Toronto Toronto was really that place I got a chance to exhibit and communicate with people prior to coming I had a Gather in New York and it's a very cold yeah you know it was it was stuffy no music no vibe it was a certain vibration it worked with me but I can't Serrato it was a certain type of energy that was that was did it well I love the diversity of the of the people it was a spirit to say this is my home even the point where I want to live in Toronto of course the vibration is an energy that I just so exhibited for each time it's a lot happened to me so many amazing people unlike being in New York where I knew a lot of people I'm developing new friendships that I have to this very day the three generations was a great because it allowed me to learn more about your work say it's worth me a larger body people of all the mainly art community and with that King the work saps in region Park you know and this is all new and at first is very uncomfortable because I know I'm an outsider and I don't belong let me come if anything but I feel this is your community for you guys are document but it's time for rest I I took on the challenge and I went on the document reached the park and other communities and mentoring people means the world to me because I feel that the art community has the power to make this world a better place it's beyond photography it's having young people in front of you and engaging them in conversation speak about goals and aspiration because I saw tyrano with me was the promised last I needed all here to help me navigate to say get around bring about this Unity I felt that Toronto could be the city that could serve as a road map to how we can be of course the organ came together from the different culture background so I have to say those days spent in Toronto with some of the greatest days of my life unlike that means everything and I've been through a number of foreign countries but the go to a place is only our way by playing and the being in the midst of people to speak the language you know I mean and it's through coming to running that became a a vegan you know my photographer skills got better you taught me a whole lot because I remember meeting you going to your studio for the first time when you don't rap me I was exhausted and you wanted to make that photograph of me and I gave it to you I remember that so well because I didn't want to do it but I didn't think I remember Jelani came and he was doing some flip some glasses on me you know and through you I looked at the computer for the first time you know me because probably I mean I had I had a a laptop but now I'm looking at you with your two Giants and we had I was blown away with that brother because believe it or not I had never been in a photography studio before your studio was the very first space that bought the professional studio and when I was utterly blown away with it before that you gave me and you were so humble because I remember the first photograph I gave you I looked at it there was a slight imperfection and I gave us another you can't have this I felt embarrassed here you are you know cleaning up images and you you insisted on taking that photograph and I used to really feel bad when I said just like you felt when I saw your work on the walls first of all the book because they have this imperfection but you humbly in a minute world of you and that told me a lot about you at that point in time I have everything that you've ever passed to me if you were to start today because of all the resources that photographers have today and all the limitations that you and I had when we started when I watched you shoot in that Workshop you're like yo cardi one shot one kill one shot that's all we got I've used that term one shot one kill this way I've said this you're not Jamil Shabazz you can't one shot one kill you need to shoot hundreds of pictures to get that perfect shot there's only one cat that I know that can one shot one kill talk to me about that talk to me about one shot one kill and and why I know about it and how you related it well deeper than that that was an idea that I had early on in my career when I first started out even when I was 15 years old when I didn't have a lot of money to buy film so every image had to count because there wasn't a lot of money back then so roll you on in my life you know with the recording systematic every photograph had to count so before I press that shutter I made sure that my life my composition everything was right my breath control trigger squeeze was all correct because it had to count so I started off doing that when I was 15. and when I came out in the military I didn't have a lot of fun so every image had to count and I think it's funny because I look at my contact sheets now I can't believe I even did that because there wasn't no bracketing it had to be right the first time now having a light meter I just can't believe I did because there was possibilities for mistakes but about making an image of a person and he blinks I look at the photographs and and I miss it I only took one frame so in the beginning I did it and I was able to calculate my time in right make sure the person didn't blink it didn't move but I have to be honest with you as time progressed that was no longer my practice I might have did two frames but I went from doing the one to just advance but there is a chance that person can blink and you may not get it right you know as a military man and you taught that idea of one shot one kill you know what I mean trigger squeeze breath control to make sure that you get it right you may not get that second chance I actually took that from my time in the military and incorporating some of my photography practices and even to this day when I shoot digital I still shoot it like that I don't I'm like looking I only got 36 frames so I'm not gonna just do a lot of Rapid firing to get this I know what I want I've done photo shoots like when I saw Alicia Keys to switch space it was so funny because I knocked it out in like 20 minutes and they were shocked that they came away and I wanted a lot of research no I I I I recall on my area I knew exactly what I wanted I knew how the light was gonna fall I knew the poses and what y'all gonna do I made a whole list of what I wanted so when I photographed them we were done in like 30 minutes they looked at their watch like and that's that's my situation in most bowling shoots I've done I know exactly what I want I don't need to get a lot I might even I remember I did something for the cosmos and I photographed the crew in the subway in the first frame so we could go home now I knew that we had that shot and they were stunned because they had planned on being out there all day but when I post the sub objects created that shot everybody in the team knew that we can go home and I've done a number I know exactly what I want I'm going to position people properly I've already practiced that I already have an idea in my head and I know what I want so it's still a practice that I do now but I shoot a little bit more frames just to have fun and just show A variation but in the early days I said from the from the 80s or 90s it was really that one great and I still can't believe it because I said the contact sheet or the proof of it I just participated in the new book project an exhibition called contact high which focuses on the contact sheets of the photographers to look at those imperfections and it's funny when I looked at mines because in so many cases it's just one portrait of one individual and it kind of like shows you my pattern so that's the practice I did then today with all honesty I might shoot about five frames and I got it I don't do that anymore and I remember Tony Barboza who I have a lot of respect for I did that practice man when I did a group shot up of the command game members and I just took the one shot I knew I got it and I said no no no take another one just in case because I put a rapping now like 15 people and out of the 15 one could have blinked but I was able to press and get at that first frame even though I did take two more just in case just to honor what he said but in most cases I know what I want it's all about that time making sure everybody's on the same page because I love group shots and I've been photographing root for years now and in most cases it might just be two frames and and I get it because it's all about that timing to let them know are you ready Showtime click everybody this is the shot right now and I get it so okay amazing no and I don't I don't I don't tell anybody to do the things to be honest with you that's something I did because I was going through struggle but in this age the digital photography you don't have to focus on emotion I tell people you know get multiples get different variations go don't go don't go that practice a lot of people try I think that didn't work so don't blame me get that one you get a great shot and you decide just that one shot doesn't work I do not recommend anybody does that that's something I did when I was going through a hard time I might do a minimum a minimum of five and a maximum of maybe 20. so let me stop you there imagine now you're transitioning from film to digital and you you said like you kept and you keep that same discipline that you had when you shot film when you shot digital and in shooting digital and that is why your work is so special that's why your work is so magic the fact that you held on to the fundamental that you learned from your father the fundamentals that you've learned about composition about decisive moment about Trigger Discipline about all of those things you apply it to your photography today now I know when you're shooting Alicia Keys for her album they have a budget they have a time there's make a pair there's people there's dresses all this stuff and they're not used to that I'm sure they're not used to someone shooting 10 frames that I'm sure causes a certain anxiety what's your take on how your clients have handled working the way that you work it's all about the client to make I want to know what does the client want first when I sit down and we meet I want to know exactly what you want I'm going to give you everything that you want oh and that's that's key it's not about what I want it's what you want first and then I'm going to break down them what I can do and in most cases I'm very fortunate with all the various campaigns and which I've done we have the monitors so once I make images It's the funniest thing too because and I guess it comes with confidence and having a sense of division because once we go to the monitor within the first maybe 15 minutes decide it's there and the client is looking at us like wow that's the difference you know like when I did that magazine for a Swiss piece of Alicia Keys it was only because I already had this is what I do too a brother that people don't really know about and I request this in all of my photo shoots upstanding models that I rehearse with first so that's the practice of mods and every folding shoot that I've done with uh with Puma I said I need some models to show my client what I'm going to do so I do I do an actual walking and now you look at what I got and you can make the corrections then and then I'll go on to do the actual shoot like even with Swiss spirit and Alicia Keys my mind is blown you book an entire shoot rehearse do the entire shoe the client gets that they can make all the notes on the smallest details and then when the real talent comes in you're just and then the next thing did I hear that Jameel Shabazz shoots third is that what I just heard when you're shooting with the client and you have yeah are you kidding me that street photographer that does one shot one kill that doesn't use technology that's not about computers or all that stuff you shoot there's a monitor clients get to see let's go disappoint you now so I can get a cruel I want to employ people I see the photos just by myself there's a point when I did the cosmos I had no assist and I look at it now like I can't believe I did this by myself I'm rolling with the client and the crew I couldn't even get anybody to carry my camera bag so I was accustomed to pretty much operating that throughout my career so as time started to progress and I work with Puma they gave me it had a nice budget without aiming to get me a dream team of young people I put in the wing to give guidance so I had you know I had everything tedded so I could see it and to me it was a joy to look at it in real time right now and to see the expression on the client's face when I created these situations so absolutely loved it The Godfather Harlem was a lot of pressure because I only had about maybe 15 minutes with Gene Carlos Zito Force Whittaker it was difficult and I had to get it in in a short amount of time but again I had my walkthroughs I had all of my my standing Show each all the clients exactly what I was going to do on the monitors and they made the corrections and it pretty much worked so that's been a practice of Miles forever because I want client to see what I can do before I actually get the main subject this is this is my vision because they put the ball in my court in most cases people hired me because of my sickness and style if you can give me examples of what you want I please you first and I'll do my thing I mean so that's very important to me so you can see it on the monitor so you know in everything I do now the monitor is there so the client can just see we can make all the corrections and it's always worked in my favor at the same time you know Cuts things down because I understand the idea of the budget and stretching things out because the way that you know the way the payment scale is but I still make unfair because I have a tradition too without share with you I'm in the photograph and everybody on debt and that means a lot to me so once I finish the subjects everybody everybody you shoot the crew yeah that's super genius very very smart very soon every single person I'm doing portraits to make it fun and that helps to build the relationship and it's probably making it fun for everybody so and I want to honor everybody on Deck Caterers everybody there the janitors everybody gives love for me you know I've never really had a problem with that they try and appreciate the fact that I recognize everybody the drivers everybody is equally important to me so that's just something I've Incorporated I've never learned from anybody because it's not like you're the only person I'd be really watched in the studio but other than that I had to get this thing out of my own how to move forward and I wanted it to be there was never any mental I studied the work of Gordon Parks and he gave me the foundation of what I'm doing right now he said the blue in terms of the two documentary Fine Arts fashion Street to talk everything Gordon didn't want to do my father died in 92 so I never had anybody to guide me in this endeavor so I had to figure it out of my own make it work I'll say for the most part it did work because in many cases the client gives me my way to do what I do but they know that is my stuff so they don't they don't try to really interject any ideas they let me just flow and do what I do I love it Jamil I've learned so much from the process as far as the double walk through that is genius and is something that on shoots that the client has budget when there's a real budget it's really genius also proud of you for adopting technology the way that you have adopting technology I know that I was one of the first to show you photoshop digital photography how how like just quick manipulations quick skin fixes I want you to know that I acknowledge as a man who's older than me it's hard to progress as a creative it's hard to evolve as an artist I've seen you as a Creator I've seen you as a photographer I've seen you as a mentor and as a teacher evolve in a way that has been really Jamal's like so beautiful seeing your work in advertising and you remember I told you back then when we exhibited that everybody's going to know your name do you remember when I said you're going to be paid tens of thousands of dollars to do advertising there's going to come a time when people will know that you are the root of this style and Now's the Time the kids are dying for originality when people are seeing fantasy and over processed and over photoshopped work people always gravitate back to the truth and reality and you've always spoken the truth in your work you've always given love and light to people who look like you to people from all different ethnic backgrounds I've never seen a man who is literally so color blind with their photographs I feel like I know you because I know a little bit of your backstory when when you look through the camera you really are a mirror for what's happened within your eyes from your time within Corrections how you turned that into an opportunity to your time when you were literally first inspired to pay it forward and teach and do a workshop it seems that everything that you do you do it at the highest level I'm so happy that you took some time to talk with us today I'm wondering if there is a piece of advice that you could give to a young photographer the young photographer who's watching this right now and he shoots Street or she shoots Street and they're they're wondering how do they get to the point where people know their name like how people know ours I think the key is to is the main saying that passion for the craft carry your camera everywhere you go understand the importance of themes because it's very good to have concrete themes in your mind I have a number that I have that opens on and it's almost like Investments it may not work right now but as time goes on it will the foundation my work is rooted in love so love is the theme that I've been dealing with for a long time love and friendship you know then there's another body work that I focus on is five of my father the theme of the document of the Subways which I was able to build up a body of work so it's important to build their bodies of work it's important to enter contests it's important to exhibit your work because through the exhibition of your works you get great exposure and you meet other people and you're in the network it's important to find the photographer whose work that you are Maya and study his path and how he did it even though you're going to do it in your own way it's good to have an example because I owe so much of My Success today for the path that going and consulate and he was one of the first black photographers to do it in the matter what she did I wanted to understand it and it's when I started to look at his work and read his read his writings it gave me a better understanding of how I need to move forward but it's important to support other artists at the same time too the network to go out to the gallery shows you know to use social media as a plan platform to gain great exposure you know I got turned towards the social media kind of like late in the game with Instagram but once I discovered it I became a curator of my own images and now every day I could curate shows and share my work to the to the larger world and you know because photography as art is a global language and you can reach out to so many people so don't be afraid to use social media to gain great exposure understand the significance of hashtag because you never know who's watching you through my Instagram feed I was able to get a number of jobs even my job with a puma came because they were following Instagram and said this is the work that we want so be mindful of the things that you post of course you never know who's paying attention and contests are key I didn't start entering contests until maybe 2000 when I got into four contests after four I won three and I just happened in the internet because I thought that my work was good and it worked but you never know where it's gonna go in New York we have an organization called photoville they take submissions about two three times a year into the workbook voterville you know and I I I've been with them for 10 years now and within the 10 years I've been able to submit it's seven major ideas to them that turned into exhibits and curation opportunities so you won't even be involved in all of that you want to strengthen your relationship with a lot of photographers and get mentorship as possible it's very important to have some kind of like guide you along the way again nobody did it for me I had to figure it out on my own so I'm dedicated now to help developing the careers of the cargo one of the most important shows I curated was called positivity where I met a number of young people throughout my international travel that they exhibited before and they just never show and I gave all to all the information down and when the opportunity came to curated show I involved them all in that show and give them their ways so that's what I I believe and help people get started but the key is focused and trying to go against the greatest do things that other people have not done having a concrete theme it makes all the difference in the world because a lot of work looks the same today unlike when I first started you know there wasn't a lot of photographers around if you saw a person would talk with a camera he was either professional photographer or a tourist today everyone has the ability to make admission either by digital photography or cell phone it's never been a popular party like it is today as we see on Instagram there's a lot of great talent out there but how do you compete in this very competitive time and it's challenging but you gotta go against the grain do something that's never been done before or at least do it in a very unique way learn how to speak about your work for me it's not about being a photographer I look at myself more of being an alchemist I have the ability to freeze time in motion and that's a lesson to be in your situation and raise that moment and then throw it out 20 30 years later you know so that's what I do and I see myself more so I don't even like to use the term photographer I'm a visual Storyteller that's what I do right now and if it wasn't it was unbeknownst to me when I first started out but it means so much today like and you would have never imagined 20 30 years ago because why because due to platform Instagram I'm posting a photograph of people I took 30 40 years ago and Steve the stories that are coming out of it are unbelievable people are now reaching out to me saying that's me I think this mistake that I made throughout my life is using word on you know I don't like it I mean I don't want it ever it's just something about that it seems so no so I strive for the best of my ability to stay away from using that word because you know it's it's not good you know I don't want to ever appear arrogant looking I'm trying to figure this thing out and I think in the past it might not understanding it early on and being in front of people you know like even when I did the participated in the document everybody Street it was all new I didn't understand this right now I didn't I didn't really know how to speak about a work you know and now when I in retrospect when I look at it I'm one of many you know people look at my work in my style and think that I was one of the first to do it but there's a lot of other people that have done that they just didn't get the opportunity so I I stand on the shoulders of a whole lot of people there's a lot of individuals have not gotten it do so I just look at myself in retrospect I will never speak in terms like this is something what I'm doing is something unique it has not been done before I have my whole particular style but I don't I don't ever want to appear arrogance but about again the word I thinking that I have something that's really unique in a sense it's just my personal experience so again I would I would limit the work the usage of the word I and focus more on us and we I love that I love that do you believe in 2023 it's possible for somebody to start making a living with just creativity in 2023. I'm just very honest with you it's really challenged you know as you know I started out in the 70s and I didn't really start to make Gain traction until 2001 at the age of 40 41 years old it took me a long time to navigate and figure this thing out now I have a foundation I've been retired from Corrections for 20 years I had a gay job that gave me Foundation health benefits you know and a pension I get a I get a steady paycheck every month so I'm able to survive and make this a living for a lot of young people you know trying to navigate in that manner they are faced with a lot of hardships I have a lot of friends now they watch me and didn't really understand my backstory they're struggling every day they got to get out there every day and make images and it's a challenge for them because if they don't get those images they're not gonna eat so I'll tell people that you gotta have a foundation first consider a day job to supplement your income so you could move forward because it's not easy it's gotten easy for me right now because like I said I developed an even broader strategy because I so my work goes into institutions I do a lot of exhibitions I'm selling portfolios I license out images because I have product that a lot of people don't have most of the images that I license are based off the 1980s for a lot of diamonds new films that come out but I have a body at work and go if you're just starting out you'll start out again in a very competitive field but I will tell young photographer starting now this is what you might want to consider doing I believe in diversify I do number of things I do I talk people I'm striving now to do a book a year I make sure I'm in both important I really no longer focus on galleries but I focus on museums and institutions of Higher Learning a proposition organizations to purchase my portfolios I sell prints a lecture of that word I let me get away from that important for me to curate now so the playing field is wide for me so I'm doing a little bit of everything so if one thing is not working this other the thing is work but there's always a steady flow on any income coming in because I have so many products with all these documented films are coming about especially with the 50th Anniversary hip-hop it's never been a better time for me because I'm participating in book collaborations and exhibitions so for a new person starting out you gotta Hustle Hard you have to build up an incredible party of work gotta not only don't wait for opportunities to come your way walk that create opportunity like I said with you before when people were knocking on my door I went out there I created fashion shoots on my own I got the Bible had aspirations to be my and I photoreapped them I'm constantly looking to develop ideas that serve as an investment down the road so you know even in participating exhibitions is not guaranteed your work is going to sell but you got to be in it to win it so you just have to be versatile in your crap and don't be limited I know people just focus on just one thing this street photography check out street through fashion do documentary through Fine Art be versatile so when those contests come and they looking for work on Fine Art you have that whenever the call comes to me I can have whatever you want and if I don't have it I can walk out there make that in so always be prepared be organized because you never know when those opportunities start let's see what a lot of these Publications if they have contests on the Redwood I've been people I'm trying to put people with shows on fog on fatherhood so I don't have anything on fathers look group give me an opportunity to be in the face so if you don't have obvious you need to go out there yeah shoot something if you throw to get your foundation and you need all Foundation to get as a young photographer you need to be in the show the group shows the solo shows you got you gotta you gotta do it all you gotta have people recognize your work and submit the interview you have to make yourself and that's what I did you know I made it a point to just look at I'm a chess player I looked at all the pieces of my board and everything had to work for me so this thing is not working that's not gonna you know I want to make this thing work and at the same time follow people and like they work you know because you never know how how that makes a difference in a person's life where they might expect that's beautiful you're the second person who said that when I interviewed Fiona Lark she said one of the things that she does is every single person and there's thousands that like her photos she goes to all of their accounts ounce if they're a photographer she looks at their work and she tries to say a nice compliment about every single person who takes the time to look at their work and you're saying that you do that same thing as well so everybody who's watching that's definitely something that your kind words to somebody about their photography on that right day could make more of a difference than you could possibly imagine for sure that's amazing and thank you for sharing that Jamil what's your thoughts on the future of Photography I'm I'm Blown Away with just the cell phone capability the power with a cell phone I mean I'm Blown Away With You know the fact movies you could do things it's amazing to me and I'm embracing I cherish it I'm Still Believe In traditional yeah everyone has the ability to image like never before and I've never seen a time period where it's such a profound love for image making like it is today so I in my kids do we love it I embrace it I'm striving to learn as much as I can but I'm still learning you know you know despite the success that I had throughout my life this still someone wants me to learn to this day I've never used Photoshop and I understand it but I've never used it anything I haven't embraced a lot of the technology that's in front of me you know I'm a traditionalist so you know like I said I'm still learning I think that the future I don't even I can't even say right now but I know it's going to be great because it's constantly elevated even with AI you know I've been looking forward to embracing that part of my creative process because I look at a lot of things that can't do you know so sky's the limit what's your opinion because you wanting this on the front line since Endeavor I'm just curious on how you see you know the future for talk my take is photography is not going anywhere it's been here since 1839 it's not going anywhere us as creators We Are The Architects and the way the word that you used is we're the Alchemists we are the Alchemists of creativity we can see for the people who can see and capture and document whether you can write or whether you can sing or whether you can paint for creatives there's always a place for us do you think photography heals I believe that photography heals the photographer who's making the photos and the viewer who's seeing the photographs if there's a subject that's in the photograph I also believe that the act of capturing a subject is healing for the subject in terms of how photography help me heal of course I started to get really deep into my photography during my my really my 20 years in Corrections because I was dealing with an extremely violent hostile environment every single game you can't imagine what a jail is like especially during the crack epidemic I was going into the institution with a high level of violence sometimes working 16 hours a day so when you take your execution and violence and hatred for me to leave the job I would have to go out older Brad to find hope to find love find joy to balance all of it out a lot of my co-workers with full victim to alcoholism or addiction because they had to deal with the trauma the PTSD of seeing someone the violence every day but me it was a photographer it was able to approach people and let a lot of young people know what it is that this is today's experience and why this photograph is important for me and then in making these images I would bring my portfolios into the gym and help a lot of the young men who were going difficult times and use that visual language and photography to help them see the beauty of life and to see freedom because a lot of these young men that I had they were doing 20 30 years look at my photographs they saw they saw life but it has helped me tremendously because I've survived so much and even to this day it's very painful to go back into time you know it's very traumatizing because I've lost a lot of people within my life between 2018 and now I've lost over 90 people in the 90 people I've lost I photographed so my photographs often come up on social media that this person died and that's very troubling so I'm battling every day with this healing process where this photography is encompassed you know because with the way the world is that I'm not happy with the world is believing I'm paying with all the violence is being uploaded in real time I've never seen so much hatred in my own it's one thing back in the days to go through the books like Nash Geographic magazine or just studying War photography books but today I'm seeing so much in real time that has traumatized me over and over again so what motivates me is to get my work out there to the universe to do exhibitions it gives me a sense of purpose and it helps me to heal when I take all these images that I've been able to freeze and get it out and share it to a large universe that gives me a sense of balance and purpose because there's times in my life that I feel like I'm not worthy that I'm not doing enough but when I'm able to get to work out it helps it helps me to heal and it helps other people to heal because it's deep in the way anyone can ever imagine the stories are utterly incredible and I have letters that people written me that are just so profound in regards to what my images means means to them like what I'm doing now which is very interesting a lot of young men have reached out to me on Instagram because I photographed their fathers who they never met in cases I'm the only one that has photographs of their Barbers so it brings me great joy to pass on the boat rest and share a little bit of history with them about who their father was to me and what this image me but it helps them this there's just so many situations bro I mean the bad stories are just incredible and so even people who were once violent well if that could get kind of emotional hit me Goldie you might look at the photograph and see somebody that you did harm to in Barnes and Nobles with my book back when they first came out the people told me in management when I would go there to sign copies that grown men were in here crying I hit it over and over and over again and this is the part of the healing process too in light of the crack and AIDS epidemic where a lot of people were lost because when I look at my work it's a time before crack so in so many cases I voted at their product I'm looking at yourself at your best this family members that wrote me and say that's my aunt right there before she felt better than the crap look how beautiful she is and what I try to do with my book of time before a crack is to remind people how they work before the crack epidemic hit to remind those that fell victim to selling drugs look at how you work before crime before you fell break into this lifestyle so it's helping a lot of people heal it's a lot of children better understand their parents and how they live you know so there's a lot of variations of the healing or power of photography on so many different levels but for me like I said it helps me to understand I had a purpose in life because like I said there's times in which I it goes through my mind every day that I feel like I'm not doing enough in this world when I look at my work and what I'm able to do when people write me and say that your your phone back made my heart hey my name is so-and-so I'm working from Australia I want you to know that your work means a lot to me and help me to understand my purpose but it's helping me heal and battle something Eternal demons I have by knowing that I'm able to bring some joy in the world because every day is a battle for me bro you know this is not a day that goes by where I'm not struggling with trying to navigate through life and navigating through all the the hatred that I'm seeing every day so if I could post a picture on my Instagram feed a song to make somebody reflect it's helping me go at the same it praised me great joy I've told my wife earlier if it wasn't on my post I don't know where I'll be at right now because I wake up with a determination to take an idea that's in my mind and bring it out to the universe it could be a an image a video of a sunset or Sunrise but I need to get it out and share to the universe and hopes that that seed will will plant some type of positivity to the person's heart and bring a little bit of joy in this world and touch somebody in some way it's so beautiful Jamil I gotta thank you for spending some so much time with me is there anything that you would like to say if someone came to this video and they were looking for a piece of inspiration what would you tell them today we as Visionaries have been given a Divine gift you know whether you be a poet or a painter a writer we need all hands on death right now to as Visionaries to make this world a better place and I really believe that it's the art community that has that power to do it we have to take some time and meditate on our purpose in life what do we want our length how do we want to remember as life goes on and then looking at all the things but wrong with what's going wrong in society let us take on these individual battles it could be could pollution global warming violence drug addiction as Visionaries we can use our gift to make this world a better place I am saddened by all the things in which I'm saying we have to produce some illness right now because whatever reason the negativity is being promoted the fights are being promoted I never remember a time when people are getting engaged in hating nobody wants to break it up they just want to videotape we as a conscious artists have to serve as counter narrative to a light of the negativity we have to end and make an assessment everything is going on right now we have a war going on Ukraine it's World poverty is pollution there's so many problems going on in the world artists have the ability to make a difference the same energy it takes the Creative Image that doesn't really say anything you could take that same energy to create an images if there's something like I said that troubles you what's inside your heart let's talk about it it doesn't necessarily have to be making a piece of art about it but let's have conversations we have to make this world a better place because don't trouble with everything that's going around the world right now we have all these mass shootings are taking place here in North America violence is at an all-time high we live in a state of lawlessness drug addictions at a high right now there's a lot of pain and suffering we can make a difference start with ourselves first by asking the question what is my purpose in life and what can I do to make this world a better place I ask myself up the question every single day and I I have an understanding of it and I just strive to help other people say that we need you right now we need all hands on debt because it's just I've just never seen a time when it's just so much hatred out there like never before and it's being promoted through social media you know a lot of misconceptions and there's there's idiom Behavior people have have we have been dumbed down as a society where a lot of us are falling victim to pranks and berating each other how can conscious artists say we need to make change we need to come together we need to come together as artists and create what provoking uh exhibitions that are showcase hope and possibility I've learned from wed the Bulls back in 1900 when he came with the Negro action where he brought positive images of African-Americans to Brands during the Paris and position to give a count of narrative all the stereotypical images that were being shown and it made a big difference on that topic of course during the 1900s especially when World War one hit a lot of the African-American servicemen the service of France they were treated with open arms even a lot of collectors and musicians they were able to go to France why because that barrier was broken down due to that it showed positive images we have to balance out the negative too much attention is given to negativity right now and it's very Troublesome if you look on Tick-Tock and various other social media things negativity is being promoted out there we need we need artists or should I say Visionaries to come forward and just address what's close to your heart you know because I'm doing the best I can but we need so many people right now to speak out against the hatred you know speak out against the violence we all can make a difference thank you

Channel: CARTY

Views: 6,241

Keywords: hiphop, photography, jamelshabazz, jamel shabazz legendary photographer, jamel shabazz street phtotographer documentary, street photographer, Jamel Shabazz, Trailer (Website Category), Street, urban photography, Sneaker Collecting (Hobby), Style Wars (Film), Graffiti (Visual Art Genre), Photography (Visual Art Form), Street Photography, documentary, interview, one on one, gordon parks, steve carty, influencial street photographers, street photos, best hip hop 2023, jamel shabazz

Id: qJ18kyD2KjE

Length: 65min 38sec (3938 seconds)

Published: Sun May 07 2023